The Club - Meeting 417 - Anger and Psychological/Emotional States

“A vigorous temper is not altogether an evil. Men who are as easy as an old shoe are generally of as little worth.” ― Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Ours had us both kind of shaking our heads. Do you have those weeks when everything you own seems to break down all at once?  That was the last couple of weeks for us.  Two cars.  One dog. Then, an act of carelessness on my part took another vehicle partly out of commission. Guess I didn’t learn what I needed to after that incident I referred to a few months ago in which my carelessness about some mechanical issues created problems on a trip.  I may post more about that next week.  In the meantime, this week I think we both felt like we were left limping from one disaster to the next.  Oh well . . . first-world problems.

 

We had a good discussion last week, though perhaps in spite of the topic and not because of it.  The “implements” topic always leaves me a little bored. However, it was interesting that this time it seemed to bore everyone else too, while it used to be a guaranteed crowd-pleaser.  That warms my heart a little, as it feels like althoug the readership may have shrunk a little over the last few years, those who are around now seem to, frankly, have a bent toward exploring more meaty topics.

 

Along those lines, something that came up multiple times last week was emotions, including emotional reactions on both ends of the paddle.

 

 

There was this from DWC Fred:

 

“Yes, the psychological atmosphere is definitely a major factor, not just the pain. As Ann has gotten more empowered, so has let more emotion show when she scolds me. I’m so embarrassed and remorseful when she pulls down my underwear that the pain is important, but not the main thing. The embarrassment and shame of the reason for the spanking have almost been enough to get me crying. Add the pain and I’m there !!”

 

Alan brought up the following scenario in relation to his wife’s infrequent, but emotionally powerful, use of hand spankings:

 

“I am describing a process that can go from 0 to 60 in a millisecond. Here is a fictive example of what I am describing (maybe not all that fictive)

 

HER-- Get over here and stand in front of me

Me-- Yes Ma’am (scurrying to stand where she is indicating)

HER -- Didn’t I tell you I wanted that desk cleaned out by today (Smack), (smack) (smack) over trousers or jeans

Me -- Yes Ma’am, I’m sorry I forgot

HER-- What happens when you forget a command I give you ?

Me- You punish me

HER -- I spank you, hard and long and that is what is going to happen now (smack) (smack) (smack) Now get my strap and get your bum back here pronto (smack) (smack) (smack)

 

And it can go on and on like that for long minutes before she even takes my pants down or tells me to do so. And when she does get my pants down, she might continue the spanks to bare bum until she is ready to move on to the main event. And for a given spanking it might continue through a pre -spank scolding or post spanking time in the corner.

 

This doesn’t happen every spanking, in fact maybe one in ten and she has to be at least somewhat angry. Her use of this is not predictable and pretty spontaneous.

 

But the psychological effect on me in terms of making me obedient are equivalent to her slowly lowering my pants while daring me to stop her or her slapping my face (very rare) to underscore a point. And she knows the effect it has because I told her long ago.

 

Maybe my reaction to this is more unusual than I think (we all tend to think everyone reacts to things the way we do) but it just puts me on autopilot in terms of obeying her and following her orders.”

 

 Alan’s comment led ZM to this observation about the psychological aspects of a “satisfying” spanking, i.e. one in which the spanker feels truly punished:

 

“I think this really goes back to what Alan was saying above about the psychological aspects of spanking. How many of us have wanted a spanking to end, only to then think that it would have been better had it went on longer? How many of us have wanted to be spanked to tears, only to find it difficult or impossible get to that state? There is something that is not happening at the psychological level to really satisfy that need to feel punished, so we try to compensate. "If only I could find something that would be more painful but wouldn't leave too much physical damage..."

 

The reason that most schools only had one type of implement - whether it was a cane, strap, tawse, paddle, or something else (largely determined by cultural factors) - is primarily because one type is all that was needed. I am writing about school here, since that is what you were writing about, but it also held true in the home, for pretty much the same reasons. Even though we may have had fear of the particular tool being used on us, the punishment was never really about the tool. It was the whole mortifying experience. The shame of being sent to the office. The fear of what was going to happen. The struggle to try to take it without crying. The embarrassment of returning to class. The teasing by classmates.

 

The simple fact is that being spanked by your wife, who you are so intimately connected with and hopefully truly and fully share life with, is not going to be anywhere near as embarrassing as school or other childhood punishments were.

 

So interestingly, I think the reason that we accumulate so many spanking tools is EXACTLY the same reason that we keep coming back to witnesses here on the blog; no matter how hard she spanks you in the privacy of your home when it is just the two of you, it somehow is lacking the full psychological impact that you need.” – ZM

 

Alan and DWC Fred’s comments both reference the spanker displaying some righteous anger, giving voice to some of their real feelings.  ZM’s comment focuses more on the mindset of the spankee but links it back to Alan’s comments about the spanker doing something to put the spankee in a mindset that causes real humbling, compliance, and repentance.  I also think that his hypothesis that we are so fascinated with witnesses because they would take us closer to the psychological vulnerability of a school or parental spanking is potentially really profound.

 

My own reactions to displays of emotion, including anger, before or during a spanking are complicated.  On the one hand, matter-of-fact lectures regarding why I’m being spanked don’t do much for me one way or another, and many of our pre-spanking lectures are like that.  Instead of this . . .

 

 

I sometimes feel I need something more like this . . .

 

 

Yet, as I’ve said here before, part of me really gravitates toward an “all business,” matter-of-fact demeanor.  You break a rule, she deals with it, period.

 

I don’t think the choice between the two—anger and emotion vs. all business—is binary.  It’s a matter of context.  For example, an over-the-top emotional lecture regarding some minor infraction wouldn’t be humbling, at least not for me.  Rather, it would make me doubt the disciplinarian’s emotional stability.  

 

On the other hand, if my wife really is riled up about something, it’s better for her and for our DD relationship if she cuts loose with it.  Further, while losing her shit at every minor thing would make me question her stability, just because a particular instance of disobeying or breaking a rule might seem minor to me, it might be major to her if it’s something that has happened several times.  She would be right in that circumstance to feel some real anger and to let me know she’s pissed.

 

Now, I may not feel that way in the moment.  A couple of months ago, Anne did get really pissed off about something, and the next day she gave me what was probably the strongest lecture she’s ever given.  I didn’t fully agree with some of her premises and, in the following days, I definitely ruminated on some of those areas where we didn’t see eye to eye.  It was one of the rare times when I felt like a spanking didn’t fully clear the air, though the spanking itself wasn’t the issue; it was the lecture.

 

Yet, while it took a while, I eventually had one of those post-spanking epiphanies we’ve talked about before. In this instance, it wasn’t that I came around to her view on all the underlying facts or how the behavior should be measured.  Rather, at some point it occurred to me that my ongoing feelings of resistance were exactly that – resistance.  Part of me didn’t want to surrender to her authority to judge the seriousness of the behavior and express that judgment however she saw fit.  It was an example of coming fully around to something Alan said a few weeks ago:

 

"When you enter a DD relationship your behavior is being judged by your wife or girlfriend. So, her judgment really determines if your behavior is well-disciplined or not. And you find yourself being evaluated for things you probably never considered important before.”

 

Now, like I said, this may be very unpleasant in the moment. Being “judged” or “evaluated” . . . my ego really chafes at that.  And, that’s exactly what I eventually came around to.  My ego is pretty strong, and sometimes it is going to take way more than a cold, clinical application of the paddle to break down my defenses and get me to really accept accountability.

 

How about you? Do you prefer "all business," or are displays of anger and emotion something that helps establish your roles or helps you get into a compliant, obedient or contrite emotional state?  Or, does it depend on the context?  

 

When your wife does express anger or other strong emotions, does it change the spanking in terms of severity, duration, etc.?

 

 

In addition to displays of anger, are there other things your wife does to put you in that state of “full psychological impact” that ZM describes?

 

I hope you all have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 416 - Tools & Instruments

“We shape our tools and afterwards our tools shape us.” - Marshall McLuhan

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  I’m sad to see Halloween come and go. Seems like we got many more older kids than young ones this year.

 

 

We also moved right from Halloween into winter, which I guess I’ll have to live with though it caught us a little unprepared.

 

 We had a pretty good discussion last week about “anything it takes,” though “anything it takes” became an extension of the previous week’s discussion around “anywhere, anytime, for any reason,” and that, perhaps inevitably, things drifted into witnesses and openness to others. That one topic sure carries a lot of emotional force with this group, doesn’t it?  I’m not griping about that; it is what it is. 

 

It does make me think that for many of us, our attraction to DD and spanking is wrapped up in some level of attraction to humbling, embarrassment, humiliation, etc. and that the prospect of witnesses amplifies that basic morbid desire.  It’s something I need to think about more, because “in real life” I really, really dislike embarrassment, whether experiencing it or viewing someone else going through it. 

 

At the end of the week, the conversation took a turn toward the topic of tools and instruments, especially paddles.  I don’t devote a full topic to tools and instruments very often, but it’s been a few years and we have some new participants, so why not?

 

Another reason for devoting a topic to this again is it’s one of the very rare areas in which I can say things have changed substantially over time for us, especially in the last year or two.  Looking back at some older posts on this topic, I found this list from a post in 2017 that included my thoughts on each instrument:

 

• Hairbrush: Iconic, but basically worthless.
• Bath brush: Totally different animal from a hairbrush.  Hurts like a mother&%$#@! 
• Wooden paddles:  Something for everyone.  Iconic and, unlike a hairbrush, can hurt like hell.
• Belts: Can be effective, but she has to swing really, really hard.
• Leather straps: Generally much more painful than a belt, ranging from mild to OMG!
• Loopy Johnny:  Stings pretty damn badly.  Leaves welts like a cane
• Rubber straps: If these don't get your attention, nothing will
• Cane: Has never worked well for us, but I'm not sure why.

 

From what I can recall, at the time of that post, we were using all those instruments with the likely exception of the cane.

 

Five years later, both the number of instruments we are using with any regularity and my thoughts on several of the instruments has changed.  Today’s list, in order of preference and with some updated thoughts, would look something like this:   

• Bath brush: Anne’s hands-down favorite. The only instrument she has bought for herself. Probably the most versatile tool in our collection and can be left in plain view. Hurts like a mother&%$#@! The only “downside” is it’s not a particularly iconic spanking instrument, though that is one reason it can be left on open display without vanilla visitors associating it with spanking.  

• Hairbrush: I was wrong in thinking of it as “basically worthless,” though a high-quality, heavy brush is a must.  Used properly and with sufficient force, it can send a message.  It’s probably the most iconic tool in our collection, and the only one that rates high on both iconic status and ability to leave it on display without drawing undue attention from vanillas.

• Wooden paddles:  These used to be a staple of every spanking session. Now, after spending lots and lots of money on high-quality paddles made with exotic woods, we don’t use them very often and, when we do, it’s a single paddle that we got from Aunt Kay’s husband.     

• Leather straps: These too used to be a staple.  We still use one, but it’s not what I had in mind when I included this in the 2017 list.  The one we use today is much shorter and thicker.  Leather straps are very iconic, and I personally have a strong emotional reaction to them, even though we don’t use them that much anymore.  One of the biggest downsides is it’s pretty clear what they are for, so they can’t be openly displayed unless you’re comfortable with others knowing. 

• Belts: We very seldom use them, though I sometimes will add one to my suitcase when traveling because they travel well and won’t draw much attention.  They are iconic but, in my experience, only minimally effective, with the exception of “gun belts”, which are much thicker and stiffer than ordinary belts

• Loopy Johnny:  Anne used to really like this instrument.  It stings badly and leaves welts like a cane.  Unfortunately, it also tends to snap back and bite the person wielding it.

• Rubber straps: I’ve thrown out all of them we had in our collection. They did too much damage, almost always leading to a shorter-than-deserved spanking. The pain was so severe, I could never accept and, instead, would “man up” and just try to get through it.  Some of them, made from materials similar to those used in tires, smell terrible. No. Just. No. 

• Cane: Has never worked well for us. I'm not sure why. I regret that a bit, because it is a very iconic instrument that also is very easily concealed.

 

As noted, one of the biggest changes for us has been going from many to fewer tools.  In the past, I kept most of our ever-growing collection in a lockable suitcase.  For each session, I would bring out the suitcase, unlock it, leave it open for Anne, then she would poke around in it mid-session, choosing six or more tools per session. That approach created two problems.  Maybe three.   

 

First, it was often the case that just as she was getting my attention with a particular tool, she would switch.  The frequent stops and switch-ups really got in the way of anything like a real mental/emotional surrender. 

 

Second, I think one reason we had challenges with consistency was the sheer number of implements was one factor in every session feeling like a big, unwieldy production.   When we simplified the number of tools and got rid of a lot of the “ritual,” for lack of a better word, it seemed to make each session less of an “event,” and consistency started going up.

 

Third, I don’t consider myself to be part of the “minimalist” or “essentialism” movements, but I do put some value on limiting the amount of “stuff” you own, focusing instead on having deeper relationships with a smaller number of things.  I know it may sound a little “woo woo” to talk about having relationships with things, and I do have a tendency to anthropomorphize some objects. But, I still maintain that you can have deep feelings about certain objects, and it’s more likely to happen if you have only a few things in that category of belongings.  J. and KOJ talked about things like signing a paddle and passing it on.  Aland and ZM also had comments that suggested how an object like a paddle can acquire emotional significance. 

 

Alan had this to say about a paddle his girlfriend brought into the relationship:

 

“My former GF had a rather formidable sorority paddle she had kept long past college days. If I ever knew her history with it before meeting me, I have forgotten it. But I know she brought it out pretty early in our relationship and for issues that she considered very serious- or on one occasion when she was enraged by my behavior. I wish now I had asked her more about it and how it had been used before meeting me. I remember one thing very well and that is she was very comfortable and competent using it and it was a long hardwood relatively thick paddle. I really wish I had asked her more about it but I probably was more focused on discouraging her from using it.”

 

ZM recalled this story from his first marriage:

 

“All of this talk of spanking implements used on others reminded me of something I forgot. My ex-wife (who unfortunately was very, very opposed to spanking so refused to participate in any way), got some boxes from one of her fellow teachers who was retiring early due to some windfall of some sort. Anyway, she brought them home, and one of the things in one of the boxes was a school paddle. There was just something about looking at it and knowing that it had been used - probably quite a few times - for actual school punishments. I was so sad when my ex-wife threw it away.”

 

Some instruments become “totems” or symbols of sorts. Or, they may evoke strong memories.  I think that’s more likely, however, with a small set of instruments that get regular use.  We seem to have gotten down to two instruments that are used almost every session, and a couple of others that make regular appearances. I’ll give a little background on each.

 

Somewhat surprisingly, given my negative comments back in 2017, the ebony hairbrush I bought a year or so ago has seen quite a bit of action.  It looks almost identical to the one in this photo. 

 

As I’ve said, hairbrushes of this style are among the most iconic spanking implements out there, even if they probably haven’t been among the highest-volume tools for a couple of generations. In fact, they can be pretty hard to find.  I bought ours used on eBay and, honestly, that’s a big part of the emotional reaction I get looking at it.  Part of me always wonders whether it has been used on other naughty bottoms.  The fact that the answer very well could be yes, but I don’t know for sure, gives it a certain mystique.  While not as effective as some other instruments, I’ve come around that, when used with sufficient force and vigor, it can bring a powerful sting.

 

The other instrument that is used in almost every session is Anne’s bath brush.  It was the first and only tool she personally bought and, for that reason, I think she has a very personal attachment to it.  We have two or three other bath brushes that I bought over the years, but they’ve gone unused since she bought her own.

 

My 2017 instrument list included leather straps, but at the time I was thinking about the traditional long, relatively narrow, “razor strop” style.  We have several of those, but they don’t get much use anymore.  Instead, this has become one of Anne’s “go-to” favorites:

 

While I don’t know anything about the history of our ebony hair brush, I know this paddle-like leather strap has seen service and has a history that is personally meaningful to me.  It was given to me by Aunt Kay’s husband, who used to participate here under the name Tomy.  It has the DWC logo on it, though I think these must have come from a larger commercial vendor, as I’ve seen them in several F/m spanking photos out there on the internet.  It’s proof that looks can be deceiving. While it’s compact and made of leather, it backs a surprisingly big and thuddy wallop. Its end also has this nasty habit of working its way in between the cheeks to soft tissues that have rarely felt the sting of other instruments.  It’s pretty damn excruciating.

 

For a while, we got away from wooden fraternity-style paddles, but one of them is working its way back into our sessions.  Another gift from Tomy, there’s nothing all that special looking about it. It’s not made from any exotic wood and has no holes. It’s basically just a fairly large, dark piece of wood with handles screwed onto it.  Yet, it has just the right mix of “sting” and “thud.” Anne has started to use it to augment spankings with her two brushes, when she has a message she wants to make sure is heard loudly and clearly.  And, as with the leather strap-paddle, it has additional meaning to me because of its association with Aunt Kay and Tomy and the fact I know it has been used on other male bottoms.

 

Alan also brought up the issue of what happens to all the tools that are out there:

 

“Considering the number of vendors actively selling the “tools of the trade” plus the number of motivated husbands handy enough to craft a paddle or strap, there must be literally thousands of spanking paraphernalia around, not being used currently, but once well used. Not all of these of course have been used in a serious DD relationship and fewer still in a DD F/M relationship.

 

And sadly, I am guessing many have been lost or destroyed. But there must be more than a few DD-weathered paddles or straps that have worked their way back into circulation. The paddle my wife used on me, that her ex-husband used on her technically qualifies. But I am thinking of spanking tools once used by a DD couple, but now owned by a different couple. Anyone know any stories?”

 

As described above, as we’ve simplified the number of instruments Anne uses, three of the four we ended up landing on for regular use have either definitely been “in circulation” with other DD couples or have very possibly been used for disciplinary purposes.  Those are a minor part of my collection, however, and at some point, I do need to find new homes for the rest.  

 

Years ago, I kept almost all our tools in a lockable foot locker, and the friend I’d told about our DD had kindly offered to spirit the footlocker out of the house and into the landfill if anything should happen to us. Now, however, in addition to our locked suitcase, I have instruments on various shelves around our closet, buried under piles of clothes, in drawers, and in other places.  Unless I get rid of all the extras or again consolidate everything in one secure location, anyone cleaning out our stuff in the future is going to have a few surprises on their hands.

 

What thoughts do you have regarding instruments?  Do you have a large collection, or just a few “go to” instruments?  Where did your go-to instruments come from? Who chose them?  Are there particular instruments that you find particularly erotic, that you or your wife react to emotionally, or that have interesting histories?  Is there an instrument that is most effective

at changing behavior? If so, is that because it is the most painful, or are there other reasons?

 

I hope you all have a great week.  Go vote!

The Club - Meeting 415 - Whatever It Takes

"Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor.” - Theodore Roosevelt

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

 

First off – Happy Halloween!  My second favorite holiday of the year!  

 

And, definitely the sexiest. Though, we’re a little too tame for X-rated Halloween parties.  Well, might or might not be too tame. No one has invited us to such a party, so it’s hard to know.  

 

 

Last week was one of those where the conversation started with a particular topic, then went off in a very different direction.  Which is absolutely fine.  It’s great that the group has enough cohesion and enough good contributors that conversations can develop organically.

 

In this case, the conversation started with the topic of reporting.  The conversations were helpful. It made me think about taking up my journaling practice again, but perhaps in a different format. I don’t know why, but some journals and planners just seem to work better for me on paper.  I really can’t articulate why. I have one journaling app that I like a lot for day-to-day entries and also for things that I might want to be able to search later.  You can also add pictures to entries, which is great for journaling about things like travel and vacations.  Yet, for some reason, I don’t like it for putting down deep or very personal thoughts.  Same with the electronic DD Journal I’ve kept sporadically.  Some thoughts just seem to like paper.  So, I may explore something like a dedicated journal that I can leave in her bedside table and she can read from time to time.  In the old days, we had to worry about kids finding a paper journal.  Now, it’s very unlikely anyone would find it and, if they did, they necessarily would have been snooping and would be very unlikely to bring it up.

 

After exploring reporting, the conversation veered off into further exploration of a theme that was derived from KOJ’s revelations about being taken to a room and spanked during a party.  Since we’ve talked about that happening, and a few people have experienced, I’m not sure exactly why it resonated with me, but it did.  It seemed to get to Alan, too.  For me, it may have been related KOJ’s description of what it did to the overall power dynamic between him and his wife:

 

“I also totally agree that escalating the punishment to semi-public had a profound effect on me and our relationship. It planted a healthy fear in my heart and made it clear how much authority she really wielded!” - KOJ

 

As ZM had alluded to last week, it’s all well and good to talk about “anytime, anywhere, for any reason,” but it’s kind of a meaningless grant of authority until she uses it in a way that truly pushes the envelope.  By spanking him in a semi-public scenario, that’s what KOJ’s wife did, and it left him feeling a sense of “healthy fear.”

 

 

I have a feeling that suggesting a goal of DD might be to fear one’s spouse may raise some hackles, but isn’t it kind of inherent in the whole concept? If you don’t fear the consequences your wife may impose, then what’s the likelihood you’re going to change your behavior?  Some may say that’s about fearing the consequences and not fearing the spouse, but if the spouse is determining and applying the consequences, that seems like splitting hairs.

 

 

The challenging issue, and where the “healthy fear” may arise, is reflected in Alan’s follow-up question:

 

“Just one of those [a semi-public spanking] would bring about a dramatic behavioral change in almost anyone. But it raises the question: how far are you or your wife willing to go to “manage” behavior?

 

“So many of us talk about wanting real discipline and accountability and even about “any time, any place for any reason “ (and I am on board for all of that). And here is one wife who did exactly that (and from various sources on the blogosphere, she is not the only wife to administer that kind of discipline.)

 

“My question is how many of us are ready for it to go that far? Or maybe a better question is how many want it to go that far.” – Alan

 

As Alan went on to point out, sometimes bad behavior is intractable.  It may be lessened or controlled but not really eradicated.  That could lead to what he called “uneasy equilibrium” in which “she is comfortable knowing she can manage those behaviors when they become a problem knowing they will crop up again and she will need to deal with them again.   

 

But, importantly, some wives may not be willing to stay in that sort of equilibrium:

 

“But for DD wives unwilling to compromise, most couples probably find there is a limit to what can be accomplished with spanking alone, if for no other reason that no loving wife wants to take a beating to the place where serious or permanent injury could occur.

 

That seems to me the direction KOJ and his wife took, to the threat of, and then the reality of acutely embarrassing public punishment which must be a truly transformative event for both husband and wife -but is also virtually guaranteed to take care of all but truly intractable problem behaviors.”

 

Let’s explore that a bit more. 

 

You could use lots of terms to describe what KOJ’s wife was willing to do to make her point.  “Tough love” comes to mind.  “By whatever means necessary,” is another.  “Escalation” is another good word for it.

 

 

I really believe that one key to effective discipline is for the recipient to know that he absolutely will not win in a power struggle. When I was growing up, my father was kind of a force of nature.  I didn’t get in many outright power struggles with him. Thankfully, he was not into making a lot of rules, because otherwise, I’m sure my ass would have been bruised well and often. There just wasn’t any question about who was boss, and part of that was in any contest of wills he was going to escalate to whatever level necessary to win.  That’s just who he was. 

 

Have you experienced that in your Domestic Discipline relationship?  Has there been a time when your wife’s message wasn’t getting through, so she increased the stakes in some way that finally got your attention?  

 

 

Maybe the spankings became longer, more frequent, or more severe? 

 

Or, as Alan notes, there are limits on how far spankings can go.  If she’s amped up the severity, duration, or frequency and it hasn’t resulted in the change she’s looking for, what then?  Does it result in an “uneasy equilibrium,” or does she ramp things up in some other way?  Non-spanking punishments? Something added to the spankings, like doing it in front of a window or where someone might overhear? Perhaps some more severe form of humbling or public embarrassment?

 

 

Whatever it was, did it work? 

 

Conversely, perhaps there is some behavior that you want her to help you fix but current efforts have not been successful.  Is there something she could do that you fear enough that it might actually result in a real change if she did it or threatened it?  

Once again Happy Halloween.  Enjoy your week.

 

The Club - Meeting 414 - Reporting, Self-Reporting & Check-ins

“Nothing quite encourages as does one's first unpunished crime.”- Marquis de Sade

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

 

 

I hope you had a good week.  Mine seemed to fly by, though I can’t say I accomplished very much.  But, at least we’re one week closer to the sexiest holiday of the year!

 

 

 

I really do love this time of year, though this weekend definitely started feeling like that transitional week between autumn and something distinctly more wintery, though there still are some trees with green leaves around our neighborhood.

  

Last week’s discussion was one of those that never seemed to quite gel and it kind of sputtered out near the end.  Though in both the last two sessions there have been individual comments that really resonated with me. Just a few that “got to me” in one way or another, including several from KOJ:

 

How some wives take to expanding their power with sometimes surprising alacrity.

 

“My wife also quickly morphed from misbehaviors in her presence to any misbehavior. She would question me about my driving, my drinking, my attitude to customer service people, my respect level for female co-workers, etc., and punish me accordingly.” – KOJ

 

How sometimes behavior correction is about a wife escalating until she gets enough “leverage” to get the husband’s attention sufficiently to effectuate a real behavior change.

 

 

"Then came the shock of my life that I have previously mentioned when she took me upstairs during a party and set me on fire with a hairbrush that could be clearly heard, and then we returned to the party. Now that was a surprise! But I must say that it dramatically improved my behavior out in public because I did not want a repeat of the embarrassment." – KOJ

 

A reminder about the difference between actions and words, no matter how well-meaning the words might be.

 

“As far as contrition, she was of the school that talk is cheap and the only way to demonstrate true contrition was to improve my behavior. She knew full well that I would promise anything while she was whacking away!” - KOJ

 

Then, this one that presses several buttons for me, including the express connection to maternal discipline and how it indirectly led to KOJ’s adult discipline relationship, and a wife’s increasingly brazen openness about her authority.

 

“Like most couples here, I was the one who suggested corporal punishment. I still remember the question my wife asked me: "What would your mother do if you disrespected her the way you disrespect me?" "Thrash my ass," I answered truthfully. She said nothing, and a few days later I went to her and suggested she use Mom's technique, and promised her I would accept it. About a week later the first spanking happened.

 

“The "anywhere, any time, for any reason" grew out of our shared belief that the best way to break bad habits is with immediate consequences -- similar to the gentleman who got spanked in front of the light switch he forgot to turn off. For years those immediate consequences happened only when we were alone, but as I have mentioned she became much more brazen after our retirements, including threats in front of just about anyone and punishment in earshot of others. She never invited witnesses but there was one accidental witness, a story I will tell someday.”

 

A simple but profound statement from Alan about why “anytime, anywhere, for any reason” is arguably qualitatively different from a rule-based or conditional approach.

 

The big difference is her authority to discipline can’t be challenged and that was a game changer. – Alan

 

And, this reminder from Alan not to expect perfection.

 

"But expect it [a punishment that didn’t work or was “wrong” in place, time or reason] to happen once or twice in a mature DD. She isn’t perfect and neither are you."

 

 

Then there was this from Norton:

 

“Re. self reporting, we have established a bi-weekly check-in where she will ask me specific questions about my drinking, driving, etc. It is much easier to self-report if asked direct questions, and then your responsibility is to simply answer truthfully. She instituted this protocol, and I am grateful she did.” – Norton

 

The issues of reporting, self-reporting and check-ins had come up several times over the last couple of weeks, and I’d already decided to make it this week’s topic.  Donn and ZM then had an exchange that resulted in an articulation of a related topic:

 

(1) How do you, as a couple, help ensure that needed corrective action does NOT slip too far behind; how do you track pending corrective actions, and schedule the same;

 

(2) How do you, as a couple, deal with "missed corrections," or corrections that don't achieve the desired changes in behavior; how do you track previous "corrections" of misconduct to verify that changes in behavior persist, and assess "recurring/recalcitrant misconduct"?

 

The general problem of how to track offenses and “check in” on developments relevant to the DD aspects of the relationship had been on my mind, in large part due to my own failings in this area. For years, I’ve identified reporting, reminders, and check-ins, as key to consistency, or lack thereof, in our DD relationship.  Over those years, I’ve crafted lots of systems and processes, drafted various reporting forms, and committed to scheduling periodic check-ins.  

 

Yet, none of those plans have ever gotten much traction.  Why?  Because most of them require me to actually follow through with initiating the reporting or check-ins.  A long time ago, I set up a reminder in an on-line calendar.  Each week it sends me a reminder email, which I’m supposed to send to Anne as reminder to think about whether I’ve done anything that week to deserve a punishment.  I’m also supposed to report my own view on whether there have been any such offenses. 

 

Unfortunately, I’m the single point of failure in all these systems I’ve created.  I still get the emails every week, yet I seldom forward them to Anne. For a long time, we just seemed to move away from any sort of check-in system.  On other occasions, I’d get the email but, in my mind there was nothing to report, so I wouldn’t forward it along to Anne.

 

Lately, however, I find I’m most likely not to forward the emails on precisely those occasions when I know there has been some unpunished offense, and I don’t want to remind her of it.  We have a fairly long tradition of delayed punishment becoming no punishment, and sending a reminder email makes getting out of it at least a little less likely.

 

 

I take responsibility for my own failings in this area, yet I think there is a “real world vs. DD fantasy” element to those failures.  I mean, in the real world, how realistic is it to think that someone who has asked to have discipline imposed on them because they have trouble doing it themselves will magically develop such self-discipline when it comes to reporting that same conduct?  In the real world, aren't most offenses self-reported if, and only if, the offender knows he's going to get caught anyway, and often not even then?

 

My own failures in this area make me curious about how those for whom it does work have structured their approach to reporting or ferreting out offenses.  For example, when KOJ says his wife “would question me about my driving, my drinking, my attitude to customer service people, my respect level for female co-workers, etc.” how does that work logistically?  Same with ZM’s weekly check-in sessions.  When such interrogations or check-ins happen, what are the mechanics?  Are they scheduled for a certain day and time?  Who initiates the information exchange, him or her? Is there any kind of formal process, or is it more off-the-cuff?

 

There also is the timing element that was part of Donn’s topic articulation and that ZM and I also discussed.  As I said, part of me admires the approach of those wives who never let a substantial offense go unpunished, even if circumstances force a long-ish delay.  On the other hand, I find that if more than a few days separate the offense and the punishment, the latter loses most of its emotional force.

 

I look forward to your thoughts on these topics.  Have a great week.