Sunday, October 23, 2022

The Club - Meeting 414 - Reporting, Self-Reporting & Check-ins

“Nothing quite encourages as does one's first unpunished crime.”- Marquis de Sade

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

 

 

I hope you had a good week.  Mine seemed to fly by, though I can’t say I accomplished very much.  But, at least we’re one week closer to the sexiest holiday of the year!

 

 

 

I really do love this time of year, though this weekend definitely started feeling like that transitional week between autumn and something distinctly more wintery, though there still are some trees with green leaves around our neighborhood.

  

Last week’s discussion was one of those that never seemed to quite gel and it kind of sputtered out near the end.  Though in both the last two sessions there have been individual comments that really resonated with me. Just a few that “got to me” in one way or another, including several from KOJ:

 

How some wives take to expanding their power with sometimes surprising alacrity.

 

“My wife also quickly morphed from misbehaviors in her presence to any misbehavior. She would question me about my driving, my drinking, my attitude to customer service people, my respect level for female co-workers, etc., and punish me accordingly.” – KOJ

 

How sometimes behavior correction is about a wife escalating until she gets enough “leverage” to get the husband’s attention sufficiently to effectuate a real behavior change.

 


 

"Then came the shock of my life that I have previously mentioned when she took me upstairs during a party and set me on fire with a hairbrush that could be clearly heard, and then we returned to the party. Now that was a surprise! But I must say that it dramatically improved my behavior out in public because I did not want a repeat of the embarrassment." – KOJ

 

A reminder about the difference between actions and words, no matter how well-meaning the words might be.

 

“As far as contrition, she was of the school that talk is cheap and the only way to demonstrate true contrition was to improve my behavior. She knew full well that I would promise anything while she was whacking away!” - KOJ

 

Then, this one that presses several buttons for me, including the express connection to maternal discipline and how it indirectly led to KOJ’s adult discipline relationship, and a wife’s increasingly brazen openness about her authority.

 

“Like most couples here, I was the one who suggested corporal punishment. I still remember the question my wife asked me: "What would your mother do if you disrespected her the way you disrespect me?" "Thrash my ass," I answered truthfully. She said nothing, and a few days later I went to her and suggested she use Mom's technique, and promised her I would accept it. About a week later the first spanking happened.

 

“The "anywhere, any time, for any reason" grew out of our shared belief that the best way to break bad habits is with immediate consequences -- similar to the gentleman who got spanked in front of the light switch he forgot to turn off. For years those immediate consequences happened only when we were alone, but as I have mentioned she became much more brazen after our retirements, including threats in front of just about anyone and punishment in earshot of others. She never invited witnesses but there was one accidental witness, a story I will tell someday.”

 

A simple but profound statement from Alan about why “anytime, anywhere, for any reason” is arguably qualitatively different from a rule-based or conditional approach.

 

The big difference is her authority to discipline can’t be challenged and that was a game changer. – Alan

 

And, this reminder from Alan not to expect perfection.

 

"But expect it [a punishment that didn’t work or was “wrong” in place, time or reason] to happen once or twice in a mature DD. She isn’t perfect and neither are you."

 


 

Then there was this from Norton:

 

“Re. self reporting, we have established a bi-weekly check-in where she will ask me specific questions about my drinking, driving, etc. It is much easier to self-report if asked direct questions, and then your responsibility is to simply answer truthfully. She instituted this protocol, and I am grateful she did.” – Norton

 

The issues of reporting, self-reporting and check-ins had come up several times over the last couple of weeks, and I’d already decided to make it this week’s topic.  Donn and ZM then had an exchange that resulted in an articulation of a related topic:

 

(1) How do you, as a couple, help ensure that needed corrective action does NOT slip too far behind; how do you track pending corrective actions, and schedule the same;

 

(2) How do you, as a couple, deal with "missed corrections," or corrections that don't achieve the desired changes in behavior; how do you track previous "corrections" of misconduct to verify that changes in behavior persist, and assess "recurring/recalcitrant misconduct"?

 

The general problem of how to track offenses and “check in” on developments relevant to the DD aspects of the relationship had been on my mind, in large part due to my own failings in this area. For years, I’ve identified reporting, reminders, and check-ins, as key to consistency, or lack thereof, in our DD relationship.  Over those years, I’ve crafted lots of systems and processes, drafted various reporting forms, and committed to scheduling periodic check-ins.  

 


Yet, none of those plans have ever gotten much traction.  Why?  Because most of them require me to actually follow through with initiating the reporting or check-ins.  A long time ago, I set up a reminder in an on-line calendar.  Each week it sends me a reminder email, which I’m supposed to send to Anne as reminder to think about whether I’ve done anything that week to deserve a punishment.  I’m also supposed to report my own view on whether there have been any such offenses. 

 

Unfortunately, I’m the single point of failure in all these systems I’ve created.  I still get the emails every week, yet I seldom forward them to Anne. For a long time, we just seemed to move away from any sort of check-in system.  On other occasions, I’d get the email but, in my mind there was nothing to report, so I wouldn’t forward it along to Anne.

 

Lately, however, I find I’m most likely not to forward the emails on precisely those occasions when I know there has been some unpunished offense, and I don’t want to remind her of it.  We have a fairly long tradition of delayed punishment becoming no punishment, and sending a reminder email makes getting out of it at least a little less likely.

 

 

I take responsibility for my own failings in this area, yet I think there is a “real world vs. DD fantasy” element to those failures.  I mean, in the real world, how realistic is it to think that someone who has asked to have discipline imposed on them because they have trouble doing it themselves will magically develop such self-discipline when it comes to reporting that same conduct?  In the real world, aren't most offenses self-reported if, and only if, the offender knows he's going to get caught anyway, and often not even then?

 


My own failures in this area make me curious about how those for whom it does work have structured their approach to reporting or ferreting out offenses.  For example, when KOJ says his wife “would question me about my driving, my drinking, my attitude to customer service people, my respect level for female co-workers, etc.” how does that work logistically?  Same with ZM’s weekly check-in sessions.  When such interrogations or check-ins happen, what are the mechanics?  Are they scheduled for a certain day and time?  Who initiates the information exchange, him or her? Is there any kind of formal process, or is it more off-the-cuff?

 

There also is the timing element that was part of Donn’s topic articulation and that ZM and I also discussed.  As I said, part of me admires the approach of those wives who never let a substantial offense go unpunished, even if circumstances force a long-ish delay.  On the other hand, I find that if more than a few days separate the offense and the punishment, the latter loses most of its emotional force.

 

I look forward to your thoughts on these topics.  Have a great week.

139 comments:

  1. I keep an ongoing journal that is an account of all my thoughts related to anything pertaining to our DD. Our check in always begins with me reading it to her, which seems to be much easier than to come up with a confession in the moment. It helps me admit things that would be very difficult to come up with on the spot, such as saying I should to be held accountable for something or I am feeling the need to be reined in more. I can take all the time I need to choose my words carefully and can reflect on if I am being entirely honest or leaving things out. Of course, when I am alone writing in it, I am fully aware she will later be hearing me read it to her, so it isn't entirely rational. However, it seems to work for us.

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    1. I totally get how it may not seem totally rational, yet it works. I personally don't see it as irrational. There can be a world of difference in our emotional reactions to talking to someone live without a "script", versus reading something pre-pared.

      I have a somewhat similar practice, though it's another one that I don't keep up regularly enough. I keep an electronic journal, in the form of a password-protected Pages (Apple's word processor) file, which I can share with her by text. She has the password to the file and can open it on her phone, iPad or laptop. I started using that system when I was (a) a lot more paranoid about security; and (b) we had kids around. The problems I've found with it are (a) I don't connect all that well with electronic journals; when I have something intensely personal or that seems particularly meaningful, for some reason I strongly prefer paper; (b) I don't keep it up regularly.

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  2. As I am the product of a religious upbringing, self-reporting echoes the confessional routine of my early years. I learned then as now of the refreshing sensation of 'cleansing' that comes from off-loading any wrongdoing and taking my penance. It does take some mental gymnastics, however, as an adult, to self-report in the relatively sure knowledge that I will have to undergo a painful physical punishment. I too write a journal which I share with my wife in which I will often self-report or acknowledge misbehaviour. We use punishment for rudeness, disrespect and similar and so there is generally no surprise when I 'own-up' but I get positive feedback for recognising such behaviour. Writing in the journal often triggers a spanking and so I also recognise that I know the consequences of both my behaviour and openly acknowledging that behaviour. What makes that easier is the time gap between 'owning up' and the actual punishment, that somehow leaves the choice to punish with my wife. I have tried but failed to verbalise 'I feel like I should be spanked' - that feels like a step too far. Now that we have an empty nest we are experimenting with leaving the strap on display in the bedroom when either of us feels that my behaviour is such that it may need to be used. The strap is highly symbolic to me. It was in almost daily use when I was at school, and it is our 'go to' implement for discipline in our relationship but now symbolising love and respect as well as discipline. I am finding that just the sight of it is a powerful reminder of how I should behave. I am curious how long this effect will last. TB

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    1. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect lasts a long time, and even might be semi-permanent. It's now been several months that we've been leaving a bath brush and heavy ebony hairbrush on open display on our bathroom counter, and I still have some emotional reaction to them almost every time I see them.

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    2. It is a great idea in principle: that is, keeping a diary, chronicling behavior and other disciplinary issues, and subsequently using it during a regular review to confess, acknowledge or otherwise bring behavior issues to her attention. But it is hard as well as time consuming to keep an honest discipline diary.
      The diary is really just one step back from self-reporting and the myriad difficulties doing that consistently have already been thoroughly discussed. A diary apparently works for some as Norton and TB discuss above. But they haven’t worked for us and apparently many others.
      What has worked for us? Scheduling regular (weekly is ideal) short meetings where my behavior is the main topic but we might end up talking about an upcoming football game instead. It is her chance and her agenda and I usually don’t bring a specific issue or topic to it unless she has told me to do so. Most of the time she doesn’t administer any discipline during or after these meetings. We figured out pretty early that our meeting went better and with more candor if she wasn’t focused on the mechanics of administering discipline and I wasn’t distracted by worrying about it happening.
      Every so often she arrives with her bath brush or strap intending their use, so its not always a punishment free zone. But mostly it is.
      What make it work in the context of our DD are three things
      1. One is the regularity of the meetings and the knowledge that most of the time ,the focus is going to be my behavior the past week or two
      2. A second thing is that usually physical discipline doesn’t occur, so both of us are more relaxed and focused on the dialogue between us
      3. Finally, and not the least important reason is that she is really in charge of what happens or doesn’t. There is no pressure on her to spank me. On the other hand, she has full authority if she wants to exercise it.
      I don’t put this system forward as the perfect, fits all sizes, system. There is no such thing. But if you are looking for a reporting system tha might work for your dynamic, try it and see.
      Alan

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    3. Alan, are your meetings on a set weekly schedule, such that both of you know that on such and such day at such and such time you will both convene at such and such place for a discussion? When we had kids around and both of us were working, rigid or semi-rigid scheduling just was not going to happen. Now? It might be more workable.

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    4. We usually schedule for Sunday morning, understanding it will occur sometime before noon. She usually tells me the exact time she will be ready. If that week doesn’t work, we usually just move it to the following week unless she is going to punish me, and then she will schedule that as soon as possible. Traveling on a Sunday automatically moves it to the next week as does having guests in the house. Its interesting that she has always tried to limit spanking to one or two rooms in the house and never our bedroom, but we have had our meeting in just about every nook and cranny available. The message that sends me and I think she means to send is that the Sunday meeting is not about punishment, although it may put punishment on the agenda
      Alan

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    5. The message that the meeting won't (necessarily) result in punishment, or that any punishment will come at some undetermined time later, seems pretty wise.

      What I don't know if it would work for us is the flexibility you describe. It seems so easy for us to get off course on reporting after a promising start. All it takes is a missed week or two, then we're months down the line and I haven't sent a single reminder email or journal entry.

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    6. I agree scheduling and fitting a 'discussion' into your routine is key.
      (We now routinely refer to meetings reviewing my transgressions as discussions and she often uses the term in public . "It's time we had another of our little discussions")
      When we were both working we used to try to scheduleregular lunches together for our discussions , usually at a restaurant near home so we could go home and take care of business after lunch , but it became difficult to maintain with our schedules.
      Now we are both retired , we go for breakfast together once a week , not any specific day but it is part of our ' retirement' routine .
      The lunches were not set up initially to discuss my behaviour but the subject does cone up regularly now and discipline may follow if she feels it is 'due.
      Last week she raised the issue that I have gotten back into the habit of not listening to her, or asking her opinion then doing something different , or ignoring it.
      Since then she has called me out when I do it and she informed me that we will be having a 'discussion' about it this time.
      We are going for our lunch tomorrow so I suspect the hairbrush or paddle will be seeing some action afterwards this time.
      So discipline doesn't always accompany our discussions but they are part of our regular routine now.

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    7. While far from routine, we used to have talks about DD while out to dinner together. The impediment, however, is lots of people around.

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    8. I guess we were fortunate in our choice of restaurant as we never had that concern. She even had s Husband Report card in plain view one time and read from it , but there was nobody close enough to see.
      I suppose you have to br x tad careful in your choice of words and what cant be said in a public vs private place.

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    9. Incorporating a DD oriented discussion into lunch or breakfast is an appealing idea I am going to bring up with my wife. She loves to go out now, especially with the virus in retreat. And taking the discussion outside the home seems slightly naughty but also very practical. Picking a restaurant would be important to ensure some privacy but that isn’t a huge obstacle. It would be fun imagining her to require you to turn up with a list of issues she wanted to talk about or even her surreptitiously inserting a hairbrush in her purse. But in the real world the kind of open-ended agenda I mentioned above might work best. I hope we can try it.
      Alan

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    10. Of course there is always the option to administer discipline before the lunch which has happened with us a couple of times.
      This way she has the satisfaction of knowing you are sitting on a sore backside during the discussion.

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  3. TB reminded me of another important benifit I get from keeping a journal, which is the
    "positive feedback" for recognizing and reporting on bad behavior. I will also read her anything relevant from this blog. As opposed to feeling judged, she makes me feel supported and loved for being honest with her. It is part of our maintenance spanking routine I enjoy. There is an erotic, somewhat maternal, dynamic to it. There are times when she has held me on her lap, like a child, before I go across her lap for the inevitable spanking. It is both extremely embarrassing and comforting to be so vulnerable. TB also mentioned another good idea, which is leaving implements out in plain sight, which will result in a spanking. We have not experimented with that yet, but the idea of coming home and discovering the paddle out seems very compeling. Besides signaling the upcoming spanking, it would serve as a potent reminder that she is in charge, and she has chosen to exercise her authority with no input from me.

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    1. "It is both extremely embarrassing and comforting to be so vulnerable." Yep, I totally get that.

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    2. Hello Norton.
      "...the idea of coming home and discovering the paddle out seems very compeling. Besides signaling the upcoming spanking, it would serve as a potent reminder that she is in charge, and she has chosen to exercise her authority with no input from me." - I agree, this would be very powerful. TB, Alan, and Dan discussed leaving tools (perhaps innocuous ones) out in plain sight to keep you on your best behavior, which I expect would work pretty well. But if you don't normally leave spanking implements sitting out, I can imagine the rush of intense, all-consuming feelings that would come from arriving home only to see a spanking tool sitting there waiting. It would be all I could think of, particularly if my wife didn't talk about it and if I had no idea of why I was presumably going to be punished.

      -ZM

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    3. "But if you don't normally leave spanking implements sitting out, I can imagine the rush of intense, all-consuming feelings that would come from arriving home only to see a spanking tool sitting there waiting."

      Agreed, though for us, that never happened. So, between the two, I think leaving them out serves the better purpose at this particular point in time. However, this morning I did think of a possible "best of both worlds" for us. As I said, she's been leaving two instruments, a hairbrush and a bath brush, out. Potentially, one could be left on display, and the other could either be put away or moved to another part of the bathroom but could be brought out as a signal of what I have in store.

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    4. BTW, I do wonder whether the ebony hairbrush is very innocuous. It's so heavy, and the bristles are so dense, it probably would make a pretty lousy hairbrush. Many men probably wouldn't notice that, but I suspect many women would. They might question why any woman would use one and have it on display. On the other hand, I'm sure that before I discovered DD, I would have been completely oblivious to that other use of a brush.

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    5. "On the other hand, I'm sure that before I discovered DD, I would have been completely oblivious to that other use of a brush." - Hahahaha. Exactly! I am so alert to anything that could even be REMOTELY tied to DD that I see all kinds of signs that simply aren't there. If I weren't so fascinated by DD, I would probably miss all but the most obvious cues.

      -ZM

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  4. Perhaps a bit different in our 12-year-old FLR and DD household. There is no journal or periodic check in used. I know what the offenses are and when I commit one without her knowledge, I feel very guilty. Usually within 24 hours, frequently much less, I go to her and report my wrongdoing. Sometimes she waives the infraction, sometimes she asks if I would feel better if I were spanked and other times, she simply spanks me for the offense. If I am unaware of my offense, she comes to me, implement in hand and I am spanked immediately. My self-reporting grew out of the knowledge and experience of her finding out I committed a fault and did not tell her. In those cases, I am spanked for the offense and trying to hide it. Like TB above, we have the house to ourselves, implements are left out or very easy to retrieve and with me being kept nude, spankings are instant.

    An interesting topic and anxious to read the writings of others.

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    1. SC, your comment reminds of something else I intended to raise in the post but forgot to, namely, if the spankee is supposed to self-report, is there a specific consequence for not doing so. Your solution is one obvious one: "My self-reporting grew out of the knowledge and experience of her finding out I committed a fault and did not tell her. In those cases, I am spanked for the offense and trying to hide it."

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  5. Spanked Cowboy's and Dan's comments remind me of something I have seen in the healthcare profession. A regulatory violation that goes unreported is dealt with much more severely than it would have been if the organization had been up front about its error or deficiency. As a result, over-reporting of relatively minor violations is quite common.

    I can imagine that the threat of a harder spanking might encourage a spouse to likewise be more forthcoming.

    Kevin

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    1. That's a good analogy, and obviously makes a ton of sense in the healthcare setting.

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  6. We didn't have a scheduled system for interrogation but my wife got very good at recognizing when I might have misbehaved. She would say that I had "that guilty look." She usually was right. For a long time she would go through her list of questions. Eventually she tired of that and began asking, "Do you have anything to tell me?" That put me in the position of a "forced confession" because like others have stated, if she found out I had withheld misbehavior the punishment was at least doubled (more swats, harsher implement, separate spanking, whatever she determined). Interestingly, she did not expect me to confess without her asking. She understood that my lack of self-discipline in the areas for which she was punishing me meant I did not have the discipline to confess on my own. But she hated being lied to, and she considered such omissions when she asked a direct question as lies. I came to agree with her, and stopped withholding, partially because of the severe consequences but more because of the extreme disappointment she expressed. She once said to me, after throwing down the paddle in disgust after thrashing my ass for an omission, ""If we don't have honesty, we don't have anything." That hurt way more than my ass dId.
    KOJ

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    1. "She understood that my lack of self-discipline in the areas for which she was punishing me meant I did not have the discipline to confess on my own."

      I think that is the very practical reality.

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  7. Dan wrote: " … It's now been several months that we've been leaving a bath brush and heavy ebony hairbrush on open display on our bathroom counter, and I still have some emotional reaction to them almost every time I see them.”
    On the blog I think we have discussed the display of discipline tools as a way to announce or reveal the DD relationship. But the open display and proximity of a bath brush or strap may have a pretty dramatic effect on a naughty husband, finding himself in the same room or area where one of those tools has recently had a serious discussion with his bum. My wife normally puts her tools away after using them but occasionally she has “casually “left out the strap or hairbrush after using them on me. I am not allowed to handle them without explicit permission from her, so they have probably laid about sometimes for a week or so, not so subtly reminding me what she can do with them
    But a tool being out and close by most often has happened in the bathroom where one of her two long handled bath brushes is always hanging near the shower. I find myself very well behaved when in the bathroom when sharing it with her -because she has never been shy about grabbing that brush and bending me over the sink for a dozen or so quick smacks if she sees or hears something she doesn’t like. I don’t think she has ever administered a completely “serious” spanking that way, nonetheless I really do watch my behavior and attitude in the bathroom. If spanking tools were left out in other rooms I imagine they would have the same effect on me as the bath brush does in the bathroom. She hasn’t shown any real inclination to do that and I don’t intend to encourage it.
    Still, I do wonder if it would have the permanent effect on me that the bathroom brush has. Its really pretty dramatic when I think about it
    Alan

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    1. Virtually all our spankings happen in the bedroom, so for me the reaction is really on the tools and not a particular room.

      While the tools being left out definitely is a reminder to behave, I'm sure I would REALLY have a reaction if she ever took a tool out and placed it in plain view. That really hasn't happened that I recall, other than when she first bought her own bathbrush and first started leaving it on the bathroom counter. That definitely sent a message, I that context, it wasn't a reminder about an impending punishment but, rather, another indication that she was getting more and more into DD. We've been at this for a lot of years, but for most of those we had the typical DD relationship in which I was way more focused on it, and for her it was almost like an obligation she was performing. That is probably the biggest change we've experienced. She's recently gotten way more proactive about it.

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    2. "I'm sure I would REALLY have a reaction if she ever took a tool out and placed it in plain view." - I would too! Its sudden appearance in plain view probably means that she intends to punish me for something, and if I am surprised to see the implement, I probably also have no idea what I did that might merit punishment.

      "On the blog I think we have discussed the display of discipline tools as a way to announce or reveal the DD relationship." - We have, but I didn't really think much about it at the time. Now, as I think more about it, it seems like this would be a really way to bring up the topic more openly if there is someone that you think suspects something, or someone who has previously shown interest if you have hinted at the DD relationship. Leave something sitting out when they are there, and if they ask, then it is kind of fair game to tell them openly.

      "My wife normally puts her tools away after using them but occasionally she has 'casually' left out the strap or hairbrush after using them on me. I am not allowed to handle them without explicit permission from her, so they have probably laid about sometimes for a week or so..." - Now I am imagining if my wife did that and one of the three people who knows everything came by. Then, if they mention it (or for that matter even if they didn't), if my wife told me to go put the strap away or something like that, I would be quite embarrassed, even if the topic wasn't openly talked about in front of me.

      -ZM

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    3. I agree, ZM, that leaving an obvious "spanking implement" out in plain site, for a third party to easily observe. is an excellent "respectful"/"non-threatening" way to "clue" that person of the couple's orientation. If the other person did not want to immediately inquire, other person could easily ignore the symbol, or possibly file away the clue knowledge for later "observations" of, or conversation with, the couple -- no harm, no foul.

      My only concern would be the third party misunderstanding who was supposed to be on the "receiving end" of the implement. I wouldn't want any friend or guest to misinfer the receiver was a wife or minor. Maybe one could stamp/paint/engrave the implement with 'For Bad Big Boys'!"

      I, personally, would have no problem with any guest to our house knowing my status as a DD-husband. My wife, on the other hand, would be more concerned; especially with her traditional/conservative family.


      r

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  8. We have a very simple, low-tech system to assure that a spanking isn't missed. There is a white board in our bedroom that is mostly used to track how long it's been since my last orgasm (male chastity stuff). We have a magnet that says "Ouch" and "Ow" all over it. It's a cute refrigerator magnet. Normally, it's stuck to the side of the white board. If I've earned a spanking and it has to be delayed, the magnet is moved to the center of the board. She notices it and spanks me at her first opportunity. Before the magnet, a lot of punishments were missed.

    Sometimes she reminds herself that a spanking needs to be delivered by putting a paddle on the bed. I usually don't see it, but she never misses it.

    We don't have self reporting because we are together almost all the time and she like to "catch" me breaking rules. There's almost no chance I will get away with anything.

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    1. Sounds both low-tech and effective. Which probably is the best combination. In the end, tech is usually such a pain in the ass.

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  9. We have the following system:
    - general rules to which we both agreed, which we both have to follow. Most of them apply to me, but some of them apply also to my wife. There are about 50 applying to me and 3 to my wife. There is also certain number of swats for a violation. What was a very beneficial upgrade was that I've come up with the idea that one can get an extra points. I can get extra bonus points which reduce the penalty points for being extra good husband, and my wife for being extra kinky. This encouraged her to develop some kinky and dominant behaviors, like spanking me in the window, or openly talking to our friends that I'm the one doing household chores. All this is tracked in Ourhome app.
    - weekly tasks - she usually gives me a weekly list of tasks (5 to 10) which I'm expected to complete no matter what. Failing to complete any of them means 50 hard swats. She reviews it every Sunday and informs me how many swats should I add to Ourhome app on my account. Sometimes, when she sees low progres, I receive additional motivational spanking during a week to remind what can happen in case of low progress.
    - on the stop spanking - when I make her angry, she sometimes just spank me on the stop. In these moments I usually try to avoid it. Sometimes she resign, sometimes she push strongly as long as I obey. If she succeesed to spank me even though I really didn;t want to obey, she receives extra points.
    - as a result, I usually have a lot o f minus points which result in spanking every 1-2 weeks. If the number is too high, she puts me in the chastity, and I'm there as long as the balance is not cleared. On the other hand, she can exchange her points to the gift of her choice, or I can choose a gift. So, if she wants new pair of shoes, it's usually enough for her to be more strict & demanding for 1-2 weeks and there they are!

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    1. I'm not familiar with the Ourhome app. I'll check it out.

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    2. I had never heard of it, but looked at it and it looks quite useful, and surprisingly it would fit quite well with DD, it seems (though I am sure they weren't thinking that when they wrote the app!).

      -ZM

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  10. I'm not really spanked all that oftten these days, but when I am it's usually because my wife observed my offensive behavior. More often than not this involves chores, but rudeness to her or others can trigger the same response. And occasionally it's just addressing a prolonged bad attitude.

    She will sometimes pull a confession out of me by asking all the right questions. Like a lot of wives, she has learned to read her husband and can sense trouble. I can tell quite quickly where the conversation is headed and try as I might, it's hard to turn it around.

    Regarding a need to confess, there was one time asked my wife to give me an especially hard spanking. Without going into details, I'll say that it involved the beginnings of an emotional affair. I had no reason to think that Beth was aware of the specifics, but I was feeling guilty and worried about the hurt I would inflict if it continued and led to something more.

    So I made the decision to come clean and beg for forgiveness for being dishonest with her. I also asked her to punish me for what I had done. After quite a soul cleansing discussion with my wife, I dropped my pants and handed her the hairbrush. The spanking was lengthy and painful, but also very intimate. We were both physically and emotionally spent when it was over. There wasn't much more to say, but our marriage turned a corner that day and I am more grateful than ever for her.

    Kevin

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    1. Being honest about something as potentially serious as an emotional affair is very commendable. Congratulations on that level of honesty.

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  11. I don't want to make it sound like I am downplaying an issue as serious as infidelity or that a spanking is going to fix it. But for us, it was part of process that helped address underlying marital problems. The spanking served as an exclamation point that day and I think it fostered more open and honest communication between us.

    Kevin

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    1. I didn't feel like you were downplaying it at all.

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    2. "The spanking served as an exclamation point that day and I think it fostered more open and honest communication between us." - This is exactly what I think DD accomplishes so well. I view it as much as a communication tool as anything else.

      -ZM

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  12. Hi Dan,
    Lots of great insights from you and others this week in your posting. I will comment on a few things here and write about my DD relationship in a separate post.

    KOJ said: “My wife also quickly morphed from misbehaviors in her presence to any misbehavior.” – DD often begins with behaviors identified by the husband that he wants help to change, and if at some point, the wife realizes that she can use DD to change behaviors, attitudes, etc. that SHE cares about, it moves DD to an entirely new level, typically with a lot more buy-in and enthusiasm (and possibly emotion) from her since now the arrangement works more to her benefit.

    If she takes it further and expands DD to not only include the relationship or home, but also other facets of life, she may not be quite as enthusiastic about it, because she has less skin in the game, but she also might continue a long way with it as she now has taken on the project of creating her perfect man.

    One thing that nobody has mentioned so far this week, at least that I saw, is “reporting” rather than “self-reporting.” What KOJ said about misbehaviors other than in his wife’s presence reminded me of previous discussions here about having others report on our behavior to our wives. I can’t figure out how to make this work in real life, especially since I don’t necessarily want any of my co-workers to know about my DD relationship, but I do think it would be a very interesting dynamic if my wife had “spies” who would tell her about how I act outside the house, especially if they knew that telling on me would likely result in me getting a spanking.

    SC said: “For years those immediate consequences happened only when we were alone, but as I have mentioned she became much more brazen after our retirements, including threats in front of just about anyone and punishment in earshot of others.” – If we weren’t so concerned about what others knew or thought, it would have profound effect on our DD. Knowing that any misbehavior would be dealt with swiftly and surely would cause me to be very careful, especially when people were around!

    Alan said: “The big difference is her authority to discipline can’t be challenged and that was a game changer.” – I agree, but somehow it doesn’t keep me from challenging her authority as much as it should. I really need to work on this.

    Norton said: “It is much easier to self-report if asked direct questions, and then your responsibility is to simply answer truthfully.” – This is exactly the way my wife likes self-reporting to work. She doesn’t want me to go tell her everything I do something wrong, since that seems like it is asking for punishment, but rather she prefers to “interrogate” me during check-ins or punishments, and then she expects absolute candor.

    And finally, you said: “I find I’m most likely not to forward the emails on precisely those occasions when I know there has been some unpunished offense, and I don’t want to remind her of it.” – I think that this is honestly the biggest reason I am against self-reporting. I want to be (and feel) under authority, but I don’t want the actual punishments at the time.

    “I mean, in the real world, how realistic is it to think that someone who has asked to have discipline imposed on them because they have trouble doing it themselves will magically develop such self-discipline when it comes to reporting that same conduct?” – Exactly!

    -ZM

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    1. I almost included a meme/caption that depicted a "reporting by others" situation. In the old days, I thought it was an attractive idea but, like you, I could never figure out how to pull it off. Now that I don't have a workplace, there aren't nearly as many things that anyone could even theoretically report, because when I'm not with Anne, most of the time I'm doing things by myself. There are limited opportunities to get in trouble when your life consists largely of dog walks, motorcycle rides, hikes, reading, and trips to the gym.

      Now, one thing I could see working might be if some of the women in this lifestyle knew each other and exchanged views on whether one of the men should be spanked for something. It's not quite like being reported on, but it would potentially be someone weighing in on whether you should be punished.

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    2. "If we weren’t so concerned about what others knew or thought, it would have profound effect on our DD. Knowing that any misbehavior would be dealt with swiftly and surely would cause me to be very careful, especially when people were around!" I had a similar thought about KOJ's comments last week about being taken to a room and spanked within earshot of others. We tend to talk about things like being overheard and witnesses in terms of the likely embarrassment. But, in reality, I think the real impact (so to speak) might be on actual behavior correction, as you'd likely be on guard way more often, and in exactly the kind of situations that I at least am most prone to do something spank-worthy, like parties where a few too many drinks and my tendency to get even more blunt after a few drinks combine to say things I should keep to myself.

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    3. Norton wrote: “It is much easier to self-report if asked direct questions, and then your responsibility is to simply answer truthfully.” – and ZM responded: “This is exactly the way my wife likes self-reporting to work. She doesn’t want me to go tell her everything I do something wrong… “

      These two brief exerpts may encapsulate more about what it takes DD to work than many long epistles have. But it requires a wife or girlfriend who has fully bought into DD and is proactive about establishing and maintaining a DD relationship. The effort from her does not need to be great or time consuming.

      She simply has to regularly ask questions or otherwise regularly interrogate her husband or boyfriend about previously discussed and agreed behavioral or attitudinal standards. For many men in or seeking a DD relationship, (including me) this is almost unbelievably powerful in making you an instant truth teller including confessing to the most egregious disobedience.

      If also your wife or girlfriend has drilled into you the difference between lies of omission and lies of commission, virtually everything comes out in one of the sessions. Someone mentioned the phrase above which I have heard many times” Do you have anything else you want (or need) to tell me? Hearing that makes me smile because she knows the effect on me it has.

      But -and this is the take home message- She has to be proactive, consistent and serious about asking the questions and expecting candid answers. To me this demonstrates her caring as well as her strict standards, and that rings a lot of bells.
      Alan

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    4. "Now, one thing I could see working might be if some of the women in this lifestyle knew each other and exchanged views on whether one of the men should be spanked for something. It's not quite like being reported on, but it would potentially be someone weighing in on whether you should be punished." - Interesting twist on this! I hadn't thought of that.

      -ZM

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  13. Love that last pic! Bet she has great legs and the lap that comes with them.

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  14. Dan said: “We tend to talk about things like being overheard and witnesses in terms of the likely embarrassment. But, in reality, I think the real impact (so to speak) might be on actual behavior correction…”

    This really resonated with me and has since KOJ’s description of his wife taking him out of a group and spanking him in an obvious and audible manner -not exactly a witnessed spanking but OMG. Dan, you suppose the ultimate effect might be not embarrassment but behavioral modification.

    I don’t think there is any doubt about that. Just one of those would bring about a dramatic behavioral change in almost anyone. But it raises the question: how far are you or your wife willing to go to “manage” behavior. Ignoring the acute embarrassment, perhaps to both the spanker and the spankee, there is still what could be an enormous social cost, as well as possible lasting damage to friendships. ( I think at least some of these guests were vanillas ( who maybe knew but didn’t know that she used corporal punishment) ( please correct me if I am wrong about that)
    So many of us talk about wanting real discipline and accountability and even about “any time, any place for any reason “ ( and I am on board for all of that). And here is one wife who did exactly that (and from various sources on the blogosphere, she is not the only wife to administer that kind of discipline.

    My question is how many of us are ready for it to go that far? Or maybe a better question is how many want it to go that far. I am ready for it in the narrow sense that if my wife decided to do it, I would accept that decision and know that she thought it was necessary. But I don’t know that I would ever want it to go that far if I could help it , even though I think I understand why a wife in a mature DD might feel it was necessary
    Alan

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    1. Alan, this comment is well-timed with respect to some things I thought about adding to my post but ultimately didn't. They related to the fact that part 2 of "The Vow," the HBO series regarding the NXIVM "cult" is on HBO right now. The thing that fascinated me when the stories about NXIVM first broke, and that still fascinate me today, is that much of their program was about modifying the participant's behavior, in pursuit of the participant's own success and personal goals, by cranking up the possible consequences for failure. It was all about making consequences unpleasant, embarrassing or otherwise serious enough to make people really want to do what they said they wanted to do. While some in the group, including its leaders, undoubtedly did do all sorts of nasty, sordid criminal things that became wider known after the original coverage that attracted me, at bottom the program they were selling was all about making consequences severe enough to get real leverage over limiting behaviors and attitudes.

      That's exactly what I felt about KOJ's description of being taken out and spanked. Was it potentially enormously embarrassing? For sure. But, as he acknowledged, that also made him WAY less likely to engage in the same behavior again.

      I can't say I'm "ready" for it to go that far let alone "want" it to. But, I'm kind of where you seem to be, i.e. I think I'm "ready" in the narrow sense that I would accept it if she decided to take things in that direction. Which, btw, even with the big leaps and bounds she's taken lately, I think THAT big a leap would be extremely unlikely. Of course, KOJ might have thought the same about his wife . . .

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    2. Alan:

      Well, from my perspective, this goes back to Caged Lion's comment last weeks about who would suffer the most embarrassment: The DW-couple, or possibly vanilla guests. This comment presumes that no discomfort would come to any third parties. . . .

      I'm incredibly proud of my wife and the way she has developed, and embraced her leadership role, which includes her use of domestic discipline. She has told me that many of her female friends are amazed by the performance of our marriage; how amazed (and somewhat envious) they are of my performance as a husband; asked her how we do it. (I don't know how much this might be her "stroking my ego," to boost my performance; I suspect it might include some of that, but not much, as she certainly likes to keep my "humble.") As far as I know, she has never taken any personal credit for her friends' perceptions. I very much wish she would take more explicit credit, as she deserves it for all the work she has put into helping me become such a better person and husband.

      If my wife had a need to discipline me, and wanted to explain and demonstrate her methods to a small group, and wanted my help in doing that, I would certainly assist her in whatever way I could. It would certainly be easier if it were only female friends in the group, in a private setting, but I would sincerely try to assist, regardless.

      I strongly suspect such activity would be more embarrassing for my wife than for myself, but if she could derive admiration and righteous self-esteem from her knowledge and dedication, I would be "all in," for her!

      I've been embarrassed many times in my life. On a scale of 1-to-10, with ten being my greatest embarrassment ever, I doubt helping my wife in this manner would rise about 5-6. Then again, you never really know until the "rubber meets the . . . er, ah, . . . road."

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    3. Failed to include a small part:

      My wife has told me, and I have personally seen her tell her friends, when they ask how we manage to have such a good relationship: "EFFECTIVE Communications!"

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    4. Donn wrote: “If my wife had a need to discipline me, and wanted to explain and demonstrate her methods to a small group, and wanted my help in doing that, I would certainly assist her in whatever way I could.”
      I think I feel the same way about the scenario you describe. In being spanked in front of my wife’s sister, I have experienced a step in that direction.
      But my experience and your scenario are very different than the spanking administered to KOJ. The “small group” you reference presumably knows what to expect, as did my wife’s sister, and everyone was there because they wanted to be and are interested in DD and adult spanking.
      KOJ received essentially a “public spanking” whereas your scenario and my experience are much closer to the private end of the continuum. To me the differences are vast.
      Incidentally I was --a while ago --in a long correspondence with a fellow whose wife spanked him in front of other couples and small groups frequently. As he told it, she was very enthusiastic about using DD and spanking and enjoyed teaching both other women and couples the techniques she used. It was entirely consensual between them and he was comfortable being her “model” even when another male was present -and my friend ended up in the corner with a very red ass.
      Apparently the other males, when present didn’t bother him because they were always accompanying their wives, who were already spanking them or planned to and the guy had consented to that. In other words he related to them as “brother” husbands under their wife authority or about to become so.
      My correspondent told me the one time having another male present was unpleasant happened when the guy laughed and made fun of him being put in the corner after being spanked. But my correspondent got his revenge about a year later when he found himself sharing a corner with the “loud mouth” whose wife had just brought him to tears with a spanking. I suspect the respective wives planned that one but it made my correspondent feel much better about it all.
      And just a small thought experiment to bring all of this out. Imagine the experience KOJ had but imagine that another wife in the group or maybe even two other wives in the group—drag their own husbands to a convenient room and spank them just as hard and loudly as was KOJ. That changes it doesn’t it?
      Now one husband being sparked by one wife is not unique or even unusual. . And its that “not done “quality of a wife spanking her husband that we try to keep relatively private. None (or very few) of us are really ashamed that our wives’ spank. Most are actually proud of her for stepping into that role, so obviously needed. If se are uncomfortable at all it is fear of others finding out who don’t share our views about wives spanking husbands
      Alan

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    5. Alan retold another husband's experience: "[He] told me the one time having another male present was unpleasant happened when the guy laughed and made fun of him being put in the corner after being spanked."

      Yes, that is basically my own concern about having other guys present; something about humiliation by other men, especially in front of women, strikes me very, very deeply.

      However, my wife herself is very proud of me in my role as a DW-husband, and very loyal and protective of me in every situation we have ever encountered. I have this incredibly strong feeling that, if any other husband had disrepected and attempted to humiliate me that way, that husband would very quickly be under my wife's discipline with her evil rubber strap; he would definitely be thrashed worse than I was!

      BTW: Overnight, I thought some more about the level of embarrassment I might feel in such a "small group" setting of willing observers. Upon reflection, I think I would be much more embarrassed by being "genitally naked" than from enduring public corporal punishment. (I think one of those very small g-string "posing suits," that bodybuilders use for "stage posing," would be the right level of covering, for me.)

      "[Few] of us are really ashamed that our wives’ spank. Most are actually proud of her for stepping into that role, so obviously needed."

      Amen!

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    6. Alan, I agree that your scenario of other wives dragging their husbands to other rooms for spankings does change the scenario. Though, interestingly, if I tweak that just a little to there is a small gathering of couples who are into DD, but the party itself is not in any way a spanking party or meant to be a DD discussion group, and I act up and am taken out and spanked but others aren't -- in that situation, I think I would be almost as embarrassed as I would be if the other party-goers were vanilla. I'm spit-balling here and am not entirely sure *why* I'd feel that way, but I think the difference is that other men getting spanked makes it seem less disciplinary to me and more about kink, and it's the disciplinary aspects that would make me feel embarrassed, not the kink.

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    7. When I think of being taken from a room and spanked within earshot, I am assuming that it is only with people who my wife is pretty sure would be OK with it (thought that may or may not have been the case with KOJ).

      "I can't say I'm 'ready' for it to go that far let alone 'want' it to. But, I'm kind of where you seem to be, i.e. I think I'm 'ready' in the narrow sense that I would accept it if she decided to take things in that direction. - This is pretty much where I am at, especially when it involves larger group settings like KOJ was describing. Having said that, I do want to at some time experience at least having my wife talk openly in front of me to someone about spanking me, or perhaps say something that lets them know I will be spanked when I go home. And I THINK (but don't know) that I want to at some time experience having a witnessed spanking. I could be entirely wrong on
      this point though.

      Regarding what Alan said about having a male present, I think that would be MUCH more embarrassing than having a female present, though I am not sure why.

      And what Donn said. I would be more embarrassed to be naked in front of someone that to be spanked in front of someone, probably because I am embarrassed by my out-of-shape body.

      -ZM

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    8. It's never happened, but having others aware that I am getting spanked has become more intriguing to me. I'd say it is my wife who would be too embarrassed to let on. I think I'm more open to the idea because it takes me back to a time when I felt embarrassed or shamed even when she just spanked me in private. Since it became more of a common occurrence, those feelings just aren't the same.

      Also, add me to the list of spankees who have no interest in sharing punishment details with another male. We aren't aware of any couples who have a DD lifestyle, so it's not likely that shaing would occur with friends. The more likely possibility would be Beth's three sisters. Quite some time ago, I asked my wife if she had told any of them that she spanks me for punishment. She responded that it was much too personal for her to talk about with them. Not to mention, unfair to me. Maybe, but I have my doubts, based on knowing the kinds of things they do share. It's not hard to picture some intimate details being discussed ed after a few drinks. I've wondered if that same approach might loosen Beth up enough to tell me what she has shared with her sisters. I have the suspicion that if she told one, they would all know.

      The four of them do a sisters weekend at our house during the Christmas shopping season each year and I have to say that my curiosity is more than a little piqued.

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    9. Very early in are relationship, when I first talked to my (future) wife about incorporating Female Leadership and Male Accountability into a future relationship between us, I was concerned about my possibly monopolizing my future wife's "perspective" on these questions. I felt that she should have multiple sources of information to give her a wide open view of various possibilities that might best suit her needs.

      Unfortunately, there were very limited sources of information around the start of this new millenium (2000+). I could not find any books, nor websites, that dealt with Female Leadership of family relations. The only websites that existed along these lines were Aunt Kay's DWC and Elise Sutton's Female Superiority.

      I also wanted to make sure my future wife did not feel isolated in her decisions; make sure that I did not "over-influence" of seem to "pressure" her. Thus, I suggested that she might want to consult with other women she was close to. Consult with close family members, like her mother, her sister, and even possibly her aunt; consult with any especially close girlfriend(s). I even suggested that my own younger sister might be worthwhile to consult. Consult to get other women's perspectives and possible support in my future wife's decisions; her possible establishment of what might work best for her, and a future relationship.

      It felt like a big risk, and I was certainly nervous, but also realized that none of these other women really had any control over me or my future life my wife chose to not move forward with me. Nothing adverse has ever come from my making these recommendations to my wife. In fact, I don't even know if, or who, my wife might have consulted with early in our relationship, or whom she might have continued to share and consult with.

      I admit, socializing with her family and long-term friends raises some "butterflies" in my stomach; wondering who might know much more about me than I can ever know. But, if it was useful for my wife, if it helped to support her and reinforce her early and continuing confidence, I will gladly live with those occasional "butterflies."

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    10. P.S. I certainly treat all of my wife's female family members and close female friends with the "utmost" deference and respect. There's no reason to ever give any for any of these women to "question my behavior" with my wife; they might have much, MUCH more power over me than I realize!

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    11. I also try to be on my best behavior when I am badly outnumbered by my female inlaws. They may have a pretty good idea why that is.

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    12. Kevin, I get what you mean about how the attraction to others knowing might ramp us we lose some of the embarrassment and vulnerability we used to feel merely from being spanked by our wives.

      Unlike you, I do have some attraction to other males knowing, perhaps because it does enhance that feeling of embarrassment or vulnerability. I don't think I have a desire for humiliation per se, but perhaps a mild embarrassment or vulnerability fetish . . .

      I get your doubts about whether Beth has shared with her sisters. I often find it inconceivable that my wife hasn't shared with one or both of our adult kids, who she is extremely close with. I believe her when she says she hasn't, though like your doubts, it just seems very implausible.

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    13. Dan wrote: “I do have some attraction to other males knowing, perhaps because …”

      I have shared with at least two male friends in the past. Neither seemed to get the whole spanko thing at all- but both had some pretty serious fetishes, and that is probably why I talked to them about spanking. I didn’t get any bad reaction to the telling, but nothing very positive either, like “I get that”, or “tell me more about it”. It just didn’t seem to be a very big issue to either of them.
      And I told one of them, a very close friend at the time who I trusted for his discretion and was right to trust, quite a bit of detail about the DD practices of my former girlfriend. He appeared to absorb that with minimal interest.
      But a few years later his wife told me ( made voluble by several glasses of wine) she had spanked him many times with his complete consent. I don’t know if they were in a DD relationship, but she made it clear she wasn’t talking about erotic spanking.
      I have every reason to believe her, but he never told me himself after I had shared some pretty private details of my own experience. From that I learned that at least some males are so embarrassed at being spanked that they don’t even ( maybe can’t) open up to a friend who has opened up to them, It has also left me thinking there are men out there who want to be spanked or are spanked but don’t want to admit it to anyone.
      Alan

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    14. Alan, that's the first time in a while that Blogger sent one of your comments to the spam filter!

      You make a great point that we can't always expect openness to be reciprocated. Some people are just too embarrassed or terrified of it getting around. Or, maybe they have some shame about it that runs too deep for them to admit it openly? It's hard for me to understand that kind of inner lockdown.

      When I told my female friend about DD, it was close to what you describe though she showed a bit more interest in hearing about it. I think she was curious about what it entailed, but it was an intellectual curiosity and/or a curiosity based on her being my friend and wanting to understand something that was going on with me. It was pretty clear she had no personal interest in it.

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    15. My wife and her sister are very close, so I was not surprised at all when my wife told her everything about our DD. Her sister is very open minded, so I think it was easy enough to tell. Perhaps the biggest surprise of that whole thing was that her sister was OK with it, but she didn't seem to find it all that interesting or noteworthy. It was like my wife told her about what she found when shopping or something.

      -ZM

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    16. "It was like my wife told her about what she found when shopping or something." Exactly! We spend all this time worrying what others will think about us. Turns out, they don't care much at all.

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    17. My former military colleague said he was pleased that he found someone (albeit by accident) in a similar situation he was able to share things with and the same was true with me. Finding out about his situation answered various questions I had about him (and probably vice versa). For instance, why he was very macho, but his macho personality was channelled in good ways. For instance, he wasn't into heavy drinking or promiscuity, but he was often keen to say about how his large brood came along so quickly (his wife was expecting their 5th at the time of his death). I definitely think it is a good experience to be able to share with male friends if the opportunity arises like it did with me.

      J

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    18. J, I think you point about being macho but in a good way is insightful. When I've gotten the most doubtful about DD or FLR tends to be when I sense some effort to turn me into some kind of "soft boy" paragon of gentleness. It's just not who I am and not something I have the slightest desire to be.

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    19. Same here. If a husband is trying to sell F/M DD to his reluctant wife, one thing it is important to put across is how DD can enhance a man's masculinity, rather than compromise it. Some women are rightly reluctant because of the fear that DD will turn their husbands into "beta males" (for want of a better term) who they will like even less than "alpha males" with a few rough edges.

      If applied properly, DD can smooth a man's rough edges, as mentioned with my military colleague. Furthermore, some men in F/M DD marriages I have spoken with said they started out married life too mollycoddled for their wives' liking, but that the physical hardships of DD were character-building for them in all areas of life.

      J

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  15. One of the more fascinating topics. Thanks to all of you contributors. Food for thought. Graham

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  16. We don’t have scheduled reporting. Some things are obvious, like leaving my chef jacket in the living room or socks in the family room. New things like “lack of communication “ are up to her. I do, however, self-report when there are things I could get away with because she has not noticed them. No grace is given!! As I’ve written before, Ann’s attitude is, “Confession may be good for the soul, but I’m going to blister your butt!!”

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    1. “Confession may be good for the soul, but I’m going to blister your butt!!”

      Well put.

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  17. Hi Dan,
    I have commented a lot on other posts but haven't written much about how these topics play out in my DD relationship.

    Reporting: Other than self-reporting, it has never happened. I may have had someone tell my wife something I did, but never that resulted in a spanking. This is a compelling thought, however, especially if they knew that I was subject to spankings.

    Self-reporting: We don't do a lot of this, other than many of the things in our check-in system are self-reported. But we don't really do self-reporting for behaviors, largely because my wife doesn't really want this, or at least not on a regular basis. One self-reporting thing that we do have however is the box that I made (and which you posted a picture of). If there is something that I want my wife to know, but maybe it isn't big enough to bring up as a topic or whatever, but I don't want it to be hidden or a secret, then I can just write it on a slip and drop it into a locked box that only she has the key to. In this way, once it is in there, I can't change my mind, nor do I know when she will read it, but I do know that eventually it will be known.

    As far as check-ins, we have a couple of forms we use for monitoring things. Health and fitness things are logged by me, and then once a week she reviews and scores these items, at which time she evaluates how I am doing on attitude, organization, and things like that. This system ONLY works because my wife is super self-disciplined. Even so, it stops quite frequently when we have kids at home, because it is just hard to stay on top of when they are here and can come in at any minute.

    As far as how to keep on top of things, I do like the idea of using technology (surprise, surprise), but I can't think of any easy way to do it. The perfect system would be immutable, so once you entered something into it, you couldn't change it. Then, for weekly check-ins, it would send your wife an email (or whatever), reminding her that a check in was due. Ideally, it would remind you a day or two earlier, so if there was anything you had to report on, you could enter that. Then, if your wife got the notice, and if you hadn't done your reporting, she would know to punish you for not doing the necessary reporting too. Or if you were expected to self-report behaviors, and if your wife interrogated you during the check-in and found out that there were things you didn't self-report, they would be treated as if you were trying to hide them or lie about them, unless the specific behavior was so minor that you were likely to forget it.

    -ZM

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    1. In theory, it wouldn't be all that hard to create an electronic solution, though it would require some separate steps. The electronic reminders I set up and then ignored is just a calendar entry in a Yahoo or Google calendar that is set to deliver email reminders. The problem is, the reminders go to me, and I've yet to find a calendar system or reminder system that does reminders/alerts/alarms to multiple people. Rather, they all seem to, at most, send alerts to those you've shared with if you make a change. So, it would be possible to do something along the lines that you suggested, but it would require two separate calendars or reminder apps, one for her and one for me.

      My system for sending journal entries is kind of immutable/irrevocable. I send it by regular text, so once I send it I can't take it back.

      But, the effectiveness of all these alert processes hinge on at least three things. First, I actually send the report. Second, I'm fully honest in the report, not holding anything back. Third, if I don't send the report or fail to report something she knows about, she calls me out on it and imposes some kind of additional consequence for the reporting failure. In my cases, things tend to break down with the first and third of those.

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    2. Hi Dan,
      You are absolutely right about the problems in consistently doing things over a long period of time. Apps, emails, and so on can provide the reminders, but still, it is really hard to keep things going long-term, especially because for this to work well, it requires consistency by both of you.

      By the way, excellent job on consistency in posting topics here for the last month or so! Every week it has happened like clockwork, so bravo!

      -ZM

      Delete
    3. Thanks, though I suspect that with our new retirement freedom, three posts a month on average is probably about the best I'm going to be able to do most months.

      Delete
  18. My wife and I do not do reporting.
    I actually don’t know what I would
    report. My temper is primarily what I am punished for. My wife would never be comfortable with friends and family knowing about our DD. I think our friendships would be changed if they knew my wife beat me. My alpha male ego would never allow friends to witness a spanking. My wife wants it to remain private. Based on the small number of contributions, we are in the minority of how many people participate in DD or FLR. I don’t even think my friends would understand any of it. I would love to know what percentage of people actually practice DD. The only time I was embarrassed by my wife was on vacation. A female boarder guard was processing us back to the docks. She witnessed my attitude on the long line. She said to my wife, “I hope you whip him good with that attitude.” I was taken back, but my wife replied, he gets a good thrashing when needed. I was clearly very red and embarrassed. I am do a strapping tomorrow for implying my wife was suppose to complete a task w a snarky comment. She said, apparently you didn’t learn a good enough lesson last week. Your bottom will pay another price this weekend.
    T

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    Replies
    1. I suspect my friends wouldn't understand it either but, other than telling them, I don't have any real way of knowing. Honestly, I think many of our actual friends would be more like "supportive but not interested themselves." Among my vanilla (as far as I know) friends, I've only told one, and she falls into that category. I have others who I suspect are pretty sexually liberal and could be downright kinky, but I don't really know for sure and have no idea whether the kinkiness could extend to something like DD.

      I also was thinking yesterday about the fact that I now have at least three people I've "met" through this blog--including at least a video meeting with all three of them--who I've come to consider to be true, actual friends, even if those relationships are carried out mainly in writing (email, text, etc.). While the ideal is still face-to-face friendships, in this very connected world I've come around to the fact you can have meaningful relationships with people you talk to mostly on-line. And, hell, that dividing line between "real" friends and electronic ones gets shakier all the time. Now that my kids are grown and out of the house, the fact is most of my communications with them are by text.

      Delete
    2. "I think many of our actual friends would be more like 'supportive but not interested themselves.'" - This was exactly the reaction I was trying to describe in my comment to Kevin above about my sister in law. My wife told her EVERYTHING, and she was supporting, but it just didn't resonate with her at all.

      And so true about the changing nature of communications. My primary communication with my kids is also mostly text messages. Part of that is because we are separated by 6 or 7 time zones and thousands of miles, but I really expect even if we lived in the same country or even the same city, we would still probably text more than call.

      -ZM

      Delete
    3. I can attest that you're right. One of mine is over a thousand miles away. The other is a 30 or 40 minute drive. My talks with both are mostly text.

      Delete
  19. "T" asked: "I would love to know what percentage of people actually practice DD?"

    That is a question that has repeatedly been asked and analyzed here in this forum, multiple times over the past 8-9 years!

    From informal data it appears that somewhere around 0.15 to 0.3% (1.5-3:1000) of marriages include the discipline of husbands by their wives.

    There are a variety of sources for these estimates. Two relevant sources are: (1) The percentage of disciplined women in marriages; and (2) the ratio of "spanko-women" to "spanko-men."

    For factor #1, it is really a "guestimate" based upon the maximum percentage of marriages that could conceivable include a consensually-disciplined women. Very few people believe that more than roughly 2-3% of all marriages could include consensually-disciplined women.

    For factor #2, that ratio is typically estimated from: (a) The relative amounts of published/purchased literature featuring disciplined women in all settings (literature intended for consumption by women) vs. the same literature featuring disciplines men; and (b) The number of blogs and blog-posts made by disciplined women vs. the number of blogs and blog-posts made by disciplined men. In general this ratio is heavily skewed toward disciplined women, at roughly 10-15:1 (10 to 15 women for every man).

    These are, of course, very, VERY crude estimates. They could easily be overestimates, but factors of 2-5 (?).

    While the number of marriages with disciplined men is clearly a very small percentage, with the size of the adult population of North America, and assuming a 50% rate of active marriages, that would suggest roughly 300,000 active Disciplinary Wife and Discipline Husband marriages.

    Obviously, we are not alone.

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    Replies
    1. I may be getting a little lost in the assumptions, but I'm not sure how it works to begin with the assumption of 2-3% as the *upper end* of marriages that might have a disciplined female spouse, and from there get to 300,000 marriages with disciplined husbands. It seems like you are using the first (marriages with disciplined wives) as a maximum estimate, then using that estimate to reach either a minimum or at least "rough" estimate of a minimum marriages with disciplined husbands. If the 2 to 3% of disciplined wives is a maximum ("very few people believe that more than . . ."), the real percentage could easily turn out to be .02% or .03%. In other words, knowing the actual denominator turns out to be quite important if you're using it to estimate the numerator.

      I do suspect your estimate of 10 or 15:1 ratio of M/f to F/m marriages is at least in the ballpark. In the end, there is no way to know, but I can base it in part my looking at Amazon book rankings. I have a friend through this blog who has become one of the top sellers of M/f spanking romances. Her best selling book ranks about 9,250 among all Kindle books (much higher in the Romance category). Among what seem to be the best-selling M/f books with DD themes, the rankings are more like 135,000 to 400,000. And, those are the *popular* ones.

      Now, it's still a complete crapshoot to try to extrapolate anything real from things like book publishing numbers. Women read more books than men. Women read way more "relationship"-oriented books than men. Women are way more open about being seen reading racy titles than men. So, while I think publishing stats are *some* evidence of the relative split between male and females who are into spanking-oriented books with a DD or D/s theme, and that breakdown is *some* evidence of the likely relationship between M/f and F/m prevalence in real marriages, it's still pure guesswork.

      Delete
    2. I would love to know just how common this is (both M/F and F/M). I assume that Google knows (and Amazon and Facebook), since they know everything! Now if only they would mine their data for this and publish the statistics!

      -ZM

      Delete
    3. You're right that Google probably does know, or at least could find out!

      You know another really, really good source of relative rankings for kink? Pornhub topic searches, which they publish annually. They too seem to show that spanking is a small niche. Femdom also doesn't rank high in their searches. But, with spanking, I do wonder whether that is because of lack of interest, or because there are more specialized video sharing sites devoted to it.

      Delete
    4. I think you underestimate popularity. Spanking is a massive kink. Check out this data https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/04/spanking-popular-bedroom-11038349/

      Delete
    5. Well, you are talking about the Brits, after all. :-)

      More seriously, that poll seems to have been conducted by a porn shop and leading seller of impact toys. Not exactly a representative sampling of the adult population. It also seems to be counting any form of spanking at all, including a quick slap on the bottom.

      Delete
    6. Every possible source I can think of is flawed at best. Any of the porn websites are going to be very skewed at best. Pornhub, Xhamster, and other sites like that often de-emphasize femdom and spanking, probably at least in part because BDSM videos can get so extreme that they expose the sites to legal risks.

      Then there are sites like Spankingtube, which at least is focused on spanking. On that site, there are probably 10X as many M/F videos as F/M, which may very well correlate with the ratio of M/F to F/M relationships, but also may not be even close; after all, the vast majority of the visitors at ANY of these sites is male, and in general males like to see naked females. And who knows what percentage of those who search for something are actually involved in it in real life?

      And even if we could get all that data perfectly, what percentage of those people are interested in or involved in actual female-led DD (as opposed to merely kinky spanking play)? In fact, it might be better to search not for spanking but for other things that might indicate a real-world power shift, like perhaps pegging or male chastity (of which the vast majority of the material posted like captions and so on is just some male fantasy and has no relation to real life). Interestingly, references to both of these topics (pegging and chastity) have become more common in more mainstream circles.

      And finally, the internet as a whole might still not be all that accurate of a measure - at least for DD - because we know from this group that DD tends to be more common in an older demographic, and while virtually everyone is on the internet these days, it doesn't mean that older people are equally well represented.

      Oh the mystery...!

      -ZM

      Delete
    7. The several posts above discussing ways to estimate the incidence of spanking, are all interesting. But they all are ignoring a hard cold fact. There is no way to estimate any population accurately without real data -in this case valid data on people interested in, or engaging in adult consensual spanking

      There are many ways to slice and dice that population: how many practice erotic spanking; how many practice DD; what percentage of DD is F/M or M/M or M/F or F/F; how often or frequent is spanking practiced, and on and on.

      BUT there is only one scientifically sound way to get at those questions -including the big question, which is “how many people are into adult consensual spanking?

      And that is with a carefully constructed, competently carried out sample survey of what ever the defined population is, e.g., First world countries, the United States, California, the UK, etc. So, if such a sample survey was actually done, we would know with some precision the proportion of couples practicing female led DD in Canada -or those in the European Union who have had at least one adult spanking.

      Presently we have nothing like this or the data it would produce. Instead, we have a Hodge-podge of self-selected, mostly internet surveys, all of which have massive methodological problems -or in plain English, we have junk surveys and not much else

      It is possible that some future Kinsey Institute type researcher will overcome all the many barriers to really studying adult consensual spanking in all its flavors.
      But the disinclination now for people to answer truthfully even political questions probably puts that “sometime” far in the future. It’s a lot easier to tell a pollster who you are going to vote for than your wife spanks you.

      So, what we have left are efforts like those above to estimate a population in the absence of any rigorous data. Some of these efforts are very imaginative, and by chance they might even turn out to come up with accurate numbers. So, Donn’s estimate of 300, 000 couples practicing female led DD in the US might be correct, just by chance, but there is no way to know Personally I think the estimate is very low, but his opinion is as valid as mine since neither one of us has any real facts to support it.

      As the old saying goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And in the case of adult DD spanking, the facts are few and far between.
      Alan

      Delete
    8. ZM: "[A]fter all, the vast majority of the visitors at ANY of these sites is male, and in general males like to see naked females. And who knows what percentage of those who search for something are actually involved in it in real life?" Very good point, though I have read that Pornhub attracts a fair number of females these days.

      Alan: I don't think I'm ignoring the data problem at all. In fact, I said the best "estimates" are at very best, complete crapshoots. It's also very true that we're all bringing our biases and perhaps wishes to the discussion. You see Donn's guesstimate of 300,000 couples practicing female-led DD as very low. I suspect it is way too high.

      My retort to claims that the number is high is always pretty simple, i.e. what's the evidence beyond a generalized "a lot of people are into spanking?" It's one thing to say it could be a large number, but what are any bits of evidence that actually point in that direction? Again, I'm not asking for concrete numbers but, rather, just any concrete data points that indicate that F/m DD is more than a very small niche within the already small niche of *any* form of disciplinary adult spanking, versus spanking in general?

      I can point to things like low number of blog visitors, low numbers of F/m DD blogs, the fact that the number of F/m DD blogs and websites seems to dropping over time not growing, low sales of F/m DD books, etc. None of these yields anything like a number, but they are data points that are relevant to general prevalence. I just don't see many counter-examples beyond, again, hyper-generalized statements like many people are into spanking and females are becoming more empowered, both of which are true but neither of which in and of themselves indicate a high prevalence of F/m disciplinary spanking.

      While I think coming up with anything like "a number" is impossible, relative comparisons are at least illuminating of the potential numbers. Things like relative rankings of various kinks, and perhaps Google search terms, are never going to lead to anything like a definitive number, but they may at least indicate where a particular activity or "kink" fits in terms of interest level. One source I saw recently that looks at least a little promising is a book called A Billion Wicked Thoughts.https://www.amazon.com/Billion-Wicked-Thoughts-Internet-Relationships-ebook/dp/B004LRPJ3G/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=. I haven't read it, but from what I've read the authors did a very deep dive into Google search terms to try to discern what kinks (and other things) men and women, respectively, were actually searching for. It got pretty decent reviews. Like I said, I haven't read it but may soon. Though, it's now getting dated, published in 2011. As ZM pointed out though, things like searches and porn viewing indicate, at most, what people are interested in enough to search for and watch. They don't say anything about how many people actually *participate* in the things they search for or view.

      Delete
    9. Dan.

      I will definitely look at “A Billion Wicked …. ... In my earlier comments, I was not suggesting you were ignoring the data problem Your reference to “data points that are relevant to general prevalence” in terms of web sites, books bought etc. is a direct rebuttal of that notion.

      I was trying to make the point that we simply don’t have good quality data on these issues – and what we do have gives a lot of room for folks to project their own bias and preconceptions, which we readily do

      Like most I want to know how many spankos are out there. But beyond conjecture, I can’t. But we can do and do on this blog is try to figure out what makes our little corner of the spankoverse tick. That’s quite a bit.

      Alan

      Delete
    10. Hi Everyone:

      Since I started this conversation, maybe it's time the I rejoin and add a "few more cents worth."

      Alan: You are absolutely correct, in that we have NO DATA an "DD Practices" in and of themselves. You are also correct the only way to determine such prevalences, either DD / Spanking / BDSM / etc., is through the use of valid, random sampling of a large representative population of people / marriages.

      However, Alan, I must strongly disagree with your statement that "[For people] in Canada -or those in the European Union who have had at least one adult spanking. . . Presently we have nothing like this or the data it would produce." Similarly, but less strongly, I believe your statement "[We] simply don’t have good quality data on these issues," ignores a great deal of good, high quality data on the specific prevalence of "spanking" / "whipping" among adults in North America and at least two European Union countries. (We also have fairly good survey data ( ca. 2005) on spanking practices in a wide range of worldwide countries (41), from a wide variety of people (350K), from the Durex Corporation. "Durex" is a major manufacturer and worldwide seller of (1) condoms, and (2) sexual lubricants; Durex conducted this "wide ranging 'practices survey'" to assess "marketing potential and penetration" for their current and possible future products.)


      Some of the most recent, relevant surveys have been:

      "Sexual diversity in the United States: Results from a nationally representative probability sample of adult women and men." PLoS One. 2017; 12(7): e0181198.

      "The Prevalence of BDSM-Related Fantasies and Activities in the General Population." J Sex Med 2017;14:1152–1159.

      "The Prevalence of Paraphilic Interests and Behaviors in the General Population: A Provincial Survey." The Journal of Sex Research, Feb;54(2):161-171.

      "Fifty Shades of Belgian Gray: The Prevalence of BDSM-Related Fantasies and Activities in the General Population." J Sex Med 2017;14:1152–1159.


      There was also some statistical prevalence data in an examination of psychological characteristics of BSDM practitioners (overwhelmingly, "spankos"):

      "Psychological Characteristics of BDSM Practitioners." Journal of Sexual Medicine, 2013, 10(8)


      And a more recent "online survey" of 850 adults, that appears to generally agree with the three "scientific surveys," above:

      "Britons more adventurous about lesbianism, bondage and spanking.", www.netdoctor.co.uk/healthy-living/sex-life/


      And we also have a large number of "repetitive" surveys of this spanking / BDSM question among multiple "Kinsey Institute" surveys since ca. 1943. The most current one I could locate (although I'm sure that there are more recent versions):

      "The 1990 Kinsey Institute New Report on Sex (June M. Reinisch, Ph.D. with Ruth Beasley, M.L.S., New York: St. Martin’s Press, pp. 162-163)."


      I'll review this data, above, and further address Dan's original questions (e.g., 2% "female DD recipients) when I have more time.

      Please stand by . . .

      Delete
    11. Dan: I had another post eaten by the Google Spam Monster.

      Apparently it is a big bad "NO, NO" to include an "external link" in such posts.

      Could you check you spam folder(s)?

      -- Thanks

      Delete
    12. Donn,
      I want to look closely at those sources you cite, a few of which I was not aware. When I do that, I will be able to address the issues you raise regarding resources available and their implications, pertaining to spanking, DD, and female led relationships.
      At first blush, some of the sources you cite seem wide of the mark in terms of the original topic/question re the incidence of adult consensual spanking , particularly in the context of female led DD.
      Others look like they may have some serious sampling issues. But I will look at them with an open mind and actually hope you are correct that we have more relevant and valid data than I believe
      Alan
      BTW, your reference to: "[For people] in Canada -or those in the European Union who have had at least one adult spanking. . . Presently we have nothing like this or the data it would produce."
      Is not at all clear. Can you clarify what you were saying there?

      Alan

      Delete
    13. Alan:

      The first four (4) sources are obviously most relevant. All of them deal with actual "conduct" (not thoughts/fantasy) of "consensual spanking".

      The methodology of the specific questions varied quite about, making it difficult to discern "spanking for pleasure / sex" from "all spanking," and I suspect that some of the people who answered for "spanking for pleasure / sex" included practitioners of DD, as there was no other way for those people to respond and express themselves on the subject.

      I originally based my "2% of females are subjects of DD" on two factors: (1) Roughly 6-10% of all women who periodically participate on consensual spanking; or (2) The upper limit of all women who regularly/monthly engage in consensual spanking.

      I might also point out the Quebec Study has a "systematic problem" in the selection of the study population: ~90% of Quebec Adults were raised as children under Roman Catholicism. (I presume we have all heard of "Catholic Guilt," right?)

      Delete
    14. I wonder which way the Catholicism cuts? I assume that the "guilt" piece could drive more DD behavior, though the whole Catholic patriarchy thing might drive more M/f DD but not necessarily F/m? Of course, given the prevalence of Cafeteria Catholics, my guess is the religious thing ends up being a wash. I say all this without an ounce of guilt at taking any pokes at Catholicism, since my wife, kids, and all my in-laws are Catholics.

      Delete
    15. Alan asked: "BTW, your reference to: "[For people] in Canada -or those in the European Union who have had at least one adult spanking. . . Presently we have nothing like this or the data it would produce." "It's not at all clear. Can you clarify what you were saying there?"

      I presumed these were two closely related statement, so I combined them to say I strongly disagreed (with both).

      RE: "[For people] in Canada -or those in the European Union who have had at least one adult spanking . . ."

      The ""The Prevalence of Paraphilic Interests and Behaviors in the General Population: A Provincial Survey" study was specifically conducted amongst Canadian Adults.

      I also noted two separate studies that were specifically conducted amongst European Adults. Only one of which was rigorously "scientific," but both studies (science / non-science) produced very similar results.

      RE: "Presently we have nothing like this or the data it would produce."

      The other two scientific surveys, conducted amongst "US adults," I believe clearly do meet very rigorous standards:

      "Sexual diversity in the United States: Results from a nationally representative probability sample of adult women and men."

      (It's can be somewhat difficult to find the "full studies" online. Please let me know if you need any links to the complete studies, rather than summaries or abstracts.)

      "The Prevalence of BDSM-Related Fantasies and Activities in the General Population."

      Delete
    16. Dan: Two (2) more posts eaten by the Google Spam Monster.

      For some reason, Google just doesn't like me today!

      Could you check you spam folder(s)?

      -- Thanks

      Delete
    17. To my eye, without reviewing any of the studies mentioned, I believe there has been a significant increase in recent years in erotic spanking (every women's magazine has repeated stories about it) and in Female-Led Relationships -- consider the public prevalence and acceptance of the phrase "I have the pussy so I make the rules." However, neither of these speaks to DD.
      Much of the Christian community has long approved of husbands spanking their wives for disciplinary reasons, but to my understanding the actual practice has been rare. The Christian community generally would not approve of F/m DD, since the husband is the "head of the household."
      My wife and I were church-goers. We did not feel our F/m DD was outside of the realm of Christian teaching, partly because I asked her to use corporal punishment on me -- and even a husband who is considered the head of the household can delegate anything to his wife, including personal accountability.
      As I have mentioned, we did not have an FLR. We made major decisions together. Day-to-day operations were her domain -- and I wanted it that way. She did not "spare the rod," nor did I want her to. Our marriage benefited immensely from DD, as did both of us individually. The authority DD gave her helped her confidence in all aspects of life, including her career. And for me? I was a much better husband and man because of DD. She spanked a lot of sense into me!
      KOJ

      Delete
    18. Alan, don't know whether you're still following this chain, but I started the Billion Wicked Thoughts book. I'm really enjoying it.

      Delete
  20. Self reporting and check ins are based on honesty. Ongoing check ins provide a structure to ensure humility and discipline, and provide an ongoing reminder of who has the authority. The benifits for men lucky enough to find such a women are obvious to all of us guys that follow this blog.. How about the benefits for women? They get a man that will honest, and be extremely unlikely to cheat on them. He will be attentive, grateful, and happy to reward her by pleasuring her whenever she desires it. He probably won't be as demanding as many other guys about getting off himself. He will most likely be a good listener, and will help with the housework and cooking as much as she wants. She will have a supportavie partner, and when she experiences behavior from him she doesn't like, she has a method to change it. All in all, it would seem to be a relationship most women could only dream of, and are probably unaware such a relationship could exist.

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  21. I’m with Dan on this one. I think 300k would be way too many. I certainly wish there were more. I agree that the blogs are decreasing. I do see a few more newcomers popping up on spanking tube regarding F/M.
    This is interesting. I would never have the balls to post one of my strappings on that site. I give big kudos to the guys that do. There are some serious spankings given to husbands on that site.
    T

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    1. I know this may sound odd coming from someone who runs a blog promoting F/m DD, but I don't really care that much about growing the population of others who are into it. Maybe it's the anti-conformist in me that goes hand-in-hand with the anti-authoritarian, but I not only don't feel a need to be part of large groups, I tend to go running in the opposite direction if something I might be into suddenly becomes a trend. At one point, I might have bought a Tesla. Now, they're all over my neighborhood, so why would I want one? I used to really like tequila, but everyone I know suddenly started drinking it, and now I've lost my taste for it.

      My one caveat to the above is, I do like getting some mix of interesting people to talk to about this stuff, and it is nice to have newcomers with new perspectives join the group. So, I guess I'd say I'm fine being a member of a small, exclusive club, but one where there is always open enrollment.

      Delete
    2. I agree with you Dan. There's nothing wrong with being in a small exclusive club.

      You could even say we're something like the US Marine Corps: "The Few, The Brave, (The Blistered?)."

      Delete
    3. I like it, though I somehow doubt we're going to see that one on a Marine recruiting poster any time soon. ;-)

      Delete
  22. T
    There are about 63 million married couples in the US. So, using my back of the envelop analysis, Donn’s estimate would be roughly one of every 200 to 250 couples where hubby has felt the business end of the hairbrush. I am not going to defend Donn’s estimate because I have no valid and reliable evidence either way

    But bringing it down to numbers we all use and understand every day, makes it all a bit more plausible. My HS graduating class was a bit over 250 and even then, I knew a few guys and gals I can imagine being attracted to female led spanking.

    Proof? Nope. Supposition? Yep!
    Alan

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    Replies
    1. Alan: Quick correction on my original estimate. I did use my original prevalence percentage upon the approximately number of married adults in North America. However, I forgot to "divide by two (2)" to account for "two adults / one marriage".

      My corrected estimate would be "~150,000 'couples'" who participate in DD of husbands (rather than the original "~300,000 'people in marriages'" who participate in DD of husbands.

      That would reduce to about one in every 500 couples (1:500), or roughly 0.2% as I originally "guestimated."

      (My own estimate was also a "back of the envelope" quick-calc. Sorry for my oversight.)

      Delete
    2. All the numbers here are loosey-goosey, so don't worry too much about a decimal point here or there. Still, thinking about this as actual couples, rather than abstractions -and in the absence of rigorous data- one in 500 doesn't strike me with lightening. All the caveats and limitations noted above apply: but I would be genuinely surprised if less than one in 500 couples engage in or have engaged in female led DD. That is particularly so in cases where spanking is rare or only a part of the disciplinary regimen established by a wife.It seems likely to me, reading outside this blog, there are a fair number for female disciplinarians who prefer to discipline without using spanking or use spanking sparingly.
      Alan

      Delete
    3. One in 500 starts sounding more plausible to me, though I also have nothing at all backing that up.

      T's comment also points out another problem with any estimate - does one "real" encounter with a hairbrush at some point in someone's adult life count as practicing DD? Though, honestly, even throwing them in, I wouldn't doubt if the number was around 1 in 500 couples.

      Delete
    4. Dan: Not sure if you mean that 1:500 couples "might" be possible, or could only be possible if we include "one off" "serious encounters" of men with hairbrushes.

      However, I note that, from the ""Sexual diversity in the United States" study, there are a LOT of couples engaging in quite regular "at least monthly" spanking: 8.1% "spanked in the past month;" 2.5% "whipped in the past month."

      Any way you look at those two numbers, THAT IS AN AWFUL LOT OF VERY REGULAR SPANKING OCCURRING AMONG ADULTS IN THE USA!

      I don't think it unreasonable to consider small fractions of one percent of population to be an extraordinary / excessive "guestimate" for regular "non-erotic" spanking.

      Delete
    5. Donn, in response to his post far above misconstruing my own earlier statement --


      Rereading my statement, fully reproduced below, regarding Canadian and European populations, make it clear that you misread what I said. As you can see, I had included an introductory conditional clause clearly, which which produced a statement completely opposite to the one you apparently inferred.

      Donn, I am not being a pedant about this. But frankly I put some effort into making my posts clear and unambiguous as to what I am saying. I appreciate that you read them, but would appreciate it even more if you took the time to read them carefully before commenting on them.
      Alan

      THE ORIGINAL POST I MADE: Alan wrote: “So, if such a sample survey was actually done, we would know with some precision the proportion of couples practicing female led DD in Canada -or those in the European Union who have had at least one adult spanking.”

      Delete
    6. If I think of all the couples I know, and then rate each couple for how likely they are in some sort of a female-led relationship, I think it is not super unusual, since at least a few of the couples I know, it is clear that she "wears the pants." And if you know some couples like that, it is not too unlikely that one of them might actually use corporal punishment. I don't think DD is in any way common, but it is not crazy to think there might be more of it going on than we think...

      -ZM

      Delete
    7. It's interesting that you've said you live in a very conservative country, while I live in a pretty liberal area, yet I really don't have many examples of couples I know that have that "she wears the pants vibe." In 12 years with my previous company, there was really only one couple I knew who I thought had a decidedly DD or D/s vibe with her in charge. There's really no one in our present network of friends. Though, it's also not that I know many with a M/f vibe. Most of our friends seem like perfect examples of contemporary egalitarianism.

      Delete
  23. Part 1
    Since several have speculated about the specific circumstances of my "public" spanking, I thought I would elucidate, with the caveat that some of this is what my wife told me afterwards, since I was somewhat inebriated.
    To set the scene: I had a clear tendency to drink too much, and when I did my reserved demeanor disappeared and I tended to become loud, opinionated, and often obnoxious. This was extremely embarrassing to my wife and something we had discussed on many occasions. I had been punished for it repeatedly and had made promises to better limit my drinking and then broken those promises. The latest agreement was that I would only have one drink a night when out in public, which I found ridiculous although I had agreed to it while getting my butt tanned.
    On this particular night we were going to a cocktail party at my wife's best friend's house. My wife warned me while we were getting dressed that I needed to limit myself to one drink and behave myself. I did plan to behave myself, but how do you have just one drink at a cocktail party?
    One thing that did not occur to me ahead of time is that the hostess already knew about our DD arrangement, and I am sure that played into my wife's decision-making later that evening.
    This was after we both had retired and she had become much more brazen in sharing about our DD marriage. We had already had a serious conversation about that. I asked her why she was suddenly sharing more, and she said that for years women had asked her how it was that her husband was such a gentleman (except when drunk) and that she had never given a truthful answer. Now, she said, she could ... and she thought she should because it could help other marriages. She told me that she typically would answer in stages: "He is well trained," would be her first level of response. If asked how she accomplished that training, she would typically say "Lots of rules and strict accountability" (level 2). If she was asked how she held me accountable, she would say "Motherly guidance" (level 3). If she was asked what she meant by motherly guidance, she would often laugh and say, "hairbrush therapy" (level 4). The laughter was so the other person could take it as a joke. If she was asked what that meant, she would finally be specific and honest about our DD, such as: "I make him take down his trousers and get over my knee and I spank him with the hairbrush until he promises to change his behavior" (level 5).
    It actually was very few conversations that got to level 5, she told me. Most people would stop probing way before then. Like others on here, I had very mixed feelings about others knowing about our DD. One part of me felt titillated, particularly if I found out that it was an attractive woman learning about me being spanked. Another part of me felt highly embarrassed, especially if I found out it was a relative or a man. But since I was very rarely present for these conversations, and only found out about them if my wife volunteered the information, they didn't have much effect on me.
    What I was present for was her threats, which became more specific and more public. When previously she would whisper to me to settle down and behave myself, now she would say things out loud like "Do you need a trip to the woodshed?" or "I've got a hairbrush in my bag." She always, always had a smile on her face when she said it, and most people would laugh and not take her seriously. But others clearly knew that she meant business.
    KOJ

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    1. Part 2
      We arrived at the party, which was at a split-level home. You entered a small level which had a foyer, a study, a closet and a powder room. You went down 3-4 steps to an expansive living area that was basically a daylight basement. That's where the party was. Up from the foyer level was a level with a kitchen, dining room, living room. Then you went up additional stairs to the bedrooms. So four levels in all.
      The hostess greeted people at the door and invited them to put their coats in the study, which had a couch and some easy chairs in addition to a desk. Then we all went downstairs for conversation and cocktails.
      It was a medium-sized party, maybe 15 couples, most of whom we knew but a few that we didn't. The conversation buzz was fairly loud and the room was quite large, so there were many conversations happening at once.
      I don't recall how many drinks I had, but it definitely wasn't one. I don't recall getting loud and obnoxious. My wife says she warned me twice. I don't remember. I and a few others were talking politics, about which I have always had strong opinions that I kept to myself because I was a professional journalist. Now I was retired and had no such restrictions, and I guess I was expressing myself quite forcefully.
      Suddenly I was being pushed toward the stairs ... by my wife. (From here on my memory is quite good.) Not wanting to make a scene, I allowed myself to be hustled up to the study where 30 coats were strewn about. She shut the study door and immediately ordered me to take my pants down. I was stunned. I thought she was joking. But I could see on her face that she was not. She had her hairbrush in her hand! "Right here?" I asked. "Right here. Right now," she said, adding something like, "I warned you, and you didn't take me seriously. Now you are going to."
      I hesitated, which was never a good move with my wife. Meanwhile, she swept a bunch of coats off one of the chairs, sat down, and tapped her lap with the hairbrush. There was nothing to do but get on with it. I took down my trousers and got over her lap. She started immediately. My wife always believed in spanking as hard and fast as she could until she started getting the apologetic reaction she was seeking.
      As you all know, the quick application of a hairbrush to a bare bottom makes an unmistakable sound that really can only be interpreted in one manner. I do not recall what I said while over her lap, but she later told me there was a lot of quite loud "I'm sorry," "I'll obey," and "Please, dear!"
      I don't know how long the spanking lasted, not long. But I know that in two minutes she could land about 200 hard smacks, and my bottom felt on fire to about that level.
      KOJ

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    2. Part 3
      She pushed me off her lap and ordered me to get dressed. I suddenly realized what was about to happen -- a return to the party. I was mortified and blushed beet red. She saw that and did something really sweet. She took me by the hand and led me out of the study and down the stairs. We entered the party area hand in hand, with her looking up at me and saying I don't know what, but with a smile.
      The party was in full swing. It wasn't like everybody stopped to watch our re-entry. A few people were looking our way but most weren't. But I knew full well how loud the hairbrush had been and the volume of the party, and there was no way that the sound had not carried to a significant number of ears. I was really, really, embarrassed. I remember staring at the carpet, not making eye contact. I wished we could leave right away, but no such luck. She was engaging with a number of our friends, talking animatedly, still holding my hand. I don't think I said much of anything for the next half hour, until she said we could leave.
      Interestingly, not a single person has ever said a word to me about that night. My wife told me that she got a few winks from other women at the party and that later she told our hostess exactly what happened.
      I did not like the experience at all. I have never found it arousing, even looking back on it. But I have to admit that it was effective. For the rest of our marriage, I never again disobeyed her about drinking in public. It did make me a better husband and a better man. And so, as they say, the (sore rear) end justifies the means!
      KOJ

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    3. KOJ:

      Thank you for such an vivid description. It sounds like quite an experience!

      I hope that you feel very lucky; lucky that your wife has worked so hard to improve you in so many areas that so many of your wife's friends directly comment to her about how they admire you and your role as a husband.

      Despite that one "public experience" being so intense, do you feel, overall, that the experience was well worth while; that the subsequent reduction and control of your "party drinking" has improved all party participants' experiences; a NET PLUS?

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    4. I hadn't thought about how my reduced obnoxiousness may have improved the party experience of others, but I imagine that may be true. It wasn't like I was carrying on to 30 people, though. My obnoxiousness was just dominating one of many conversations. But my subsequent good behavior did definitely improve the party experience of the most important person: My wife!
      KOJ

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    5. One more comment: If there were any vanilla partygoers who took offense, my wife and I never heard about it, and I think the hostess would have told us. However, if it had been a man spanking a woman in the coat room I think it would have been a far different story.
      KOJ

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    6. KOJ, I suspect you're right that it would have been a very different story had it been a man spanking a woman.

      Drinking at parties is a tough one for me where DD and FLR are concerned, and it has resulted in some line-drawing in our relationship. One big problem for me is I've always had boozy friends (birds of a feather . . .), and as we've gotten older that's also true of our fairly small social network. We hang out with two different couples in particular. One of them (mutual friends but began as a friendship between me and the wife) includes a husband who is very into high-end alcohols, especially tequila, and is very into micro-brews. Anytime we go to their house, part of his enjoyment as a host is bringing out tequilas or whiskeys to sample and showcasing new beer finds. The other couple (more Anne's friends than mind) are huge boozers. They drink at high volume, everywhere, all the time. At one point, Anne did try to impose severe limits like your wife imposed on you (two drinks) in my case, at parties with the couple who are her friends. I eventually balked and told her it wasn't fair to expect me to socialize with her boozy friends but also expect me to be the one sober person in the room. I'd rather just stay home. Yet, it's also the case that I don't seem to have a working "off switch" and am prone to over-consuming and domineering the conversation.

      I don't think there is ever going to be an easy answer for us, but where we have gravitated over time seems to be more of a focus on the behavior than on the number of drinks. So, in your scenario, being domineering or loud might get me spanked, but the number of drinks per se probably wouldn't.

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    7. "I did not like the experience at all. I have never found it arousing, even looking back on it. But I have to admit that it was effective. For the rest of our marriage, I never again disobeyed her about drinking in public. It did make me a better husband and a better man. And so, as they say, the (sore rear) end justifies the means!"

      I think with a very low limit for an entire party (one or two drinks), I'd balk and just stay home. I worked as a bouncer in college, and I developed a limited tolerance for being around a bunch of drunk people while I'm stone-cold sober. There isn't anything enjoyable to me about that.

      But, to your larger point, as I said last week, I think this is a great example of escalating and getting sufficient leverage over a problem to actually effect it. There may be certain problems that have proven resistant to change that will stay that way unless there is big escalation in the force brought to bear on it.

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    8. I don't mean to intrude upon anyone's personal life, but . . .

      I often wonder about the multiple reasons that wives may have for wanting to limit their husbands' drinking. The two that immediately come to mind are:

      (1) Behavioral control at the time of drinking;

      (2) Later "judgement" in deciding how to get home from one of these events (e.g., operating motor vehicles).

      When any person tells me that they "binge drink," or regularly consume 3+ drinks in an evening, I become concerned about their ability to self-assess before operating a motor vehicle; most certainly before riding a motorcycle, as I regular operate (2x Honda VFR Interceptors).

      I think a wife exerting her authority to limit husband to 2-3 drinks in an evening is certainly within her purview for many such situations.

      Just me "general thoughts" on wives ensuring "family safety."

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    9. “There may be certain problems that have proven resistant to change that will stay that way unless there is big escalation in the force brought to bear on it.”

      I strongly agree and with some couples they probably stay that way in a kind of uneasy equilibrium, as with us she is comfortable knowing she can manage those behaviors when they become a problem knowing they will crop up again and she will need to deal with them again

      But for DD wives unwilling to compromise, most couples probably find there is a limit to what can be accomplished with spanking alone, if for no other reason that no loving wife wants to take a beating to the place where serious or permanent injury could occur.

      That seems to me the direction KOJ and his wife took, to the threat of, and then the reality of acutely embarrassing public punishment which must be a truly transformative event for both husband and wife -but is also virtually guaranteed to take care of all but truly intractable problem behaviors

      I don’t think most DD couples would or should go that far but it is good once in a while to learn of a couple that did -if for no other reason that it is a cautionary tale, of what can happen if a guy gives his wife anywhere for any reason authority -and then pushes her too far until she uses it.
      Alan

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    10. I agree that I pushed her too far and that I even knew ahead of time that I was going to disobey her and have more than one drink -- though I did not plan to get loud and obnoxious.
      When she took me to the coat room and punished me, I realized too late that we had very different definitions of what a "witnessed" spanking was. We had agreed that she would not spank me "in front of" others. I argued I should not be subject to that level of embarrassment, and she argued that the potential witnesses should not be subject to that level of embarrassment! While we did not specifically discuss it and I did not consciously consider it, I apparently assumed that "aural witnessing" was included in our ban, while her concern wss only visual witnessing. I learned a serious lesson about making assumptions about my wife's thinking!
      I also totally agree that escalating the punishment to semi-public had a profound effect on me and our relationship. It planted a healthy fear in my heart and made it clear how much authority she really wielded! This understanding deepened our relationship, making me more humble and loving, which helped immensely when she got sIck with the cancer that took her life.
      KOJ

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    11. After reading the stages of answers KOJ's wife came up with about why her husband was so well behaved, I shared them with my lady friend. There have been several times she was asked about how it was that she had such a cooperative boyfriend, and her answers were somewhat vague. The idea that a more explicit series of answers might actually help other couples is intriguing.
      It would be both embarrasing and erotic for me to know some of her friends were aware that she keeps me in line with regular spankings.

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    12. KOJ: "I agree that I pushed her too far and that I even knew ahead of time that I was going to disobey her and have more than one drink -- though I did not plan to get loud and obnoxious." My obedience too has limits, and there have admittedly been times I've known in advance I wasn't going to comply with something.

      "I also totally agree that escalating the punishment to semi-public had a profound effect on me and our relationship. It planted a healthy fear in my heart and made it clear how much authority she really wielded!" That "healthy fear" seems to me to be kind of a necessity if DD is going to work for real behavior modification.

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    13. Hi KOJ,
      "I also totally agree that escalating the punishment to semi-public had a profound effect on me and our relationship. It planted a healthy fear in my heart and made it clear how much authority she really wielded!" - I think this is what I was trying to express last week, when I was saying that I really don't know how much authority she has (i.e. anytime, anywhere, for any reason), until such time as she actually exercises the authority and I go along with it. Then and only then can one understand just how deep the authority goes.

      -ZM

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    14. Hi again KOJ:

      A question first (now), and then a comment (later) that might be interesting to others . . .

      You wrote: "I even knew ahead of time that I was going to disobey her and have more than one drink -- though I did not plan to get loud and obnoxious."

      This is what I am curious about: (1) Your wife travels with her hairbrush-paddle, right? (2) She obviously suspects (possibly from past experience) that she may need it; might need it that night at the party, right? (3) You are quite likely to suspect (possibly from past experience) that she is "armed and ready," right?

      Why were you surprised, when you had known in advance that you would disobey her, and she obviously suspected in advance that you would disobey her, that she initiated corrective action? It certainly sounds, to me, that if she was regularly walking around "armed and ready," that you had had previous warnings, if not direct experience, with "public-space corrective actions."

      So, just curious about your thoughts before this all went down.

      Or, maybe this was simply the first time ever; she just happened to suspect, and be ready, in advance?

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    15. This comment may be slightly out-of-place. (Maybe this comment would fit better into one of the "Anytime, Anyplace . . ." or "Implements" discussions.)

      However, the question arose (once again) about third parties overhearing corporal punishment in various private and semi-public settings. KOJ commented extensively on the relatively loud and distinctive sounds that his "paddling" made; other members have similarly, repeatedly commented about concerns of third parties hearing the distinctive sound that paddles and straps (and husbands) make during such events.

      I have seen only one brief mention in this forum, in the past eight years, about the "Loopy Johnny:" A simple handle attached to a continuous loop of "cord." The handle can be made of almost anything, and is typically only 7-10 inches long; the "cord" can be anything from a relatively lightweight "hollow rubber tube," through a "solid rubber cord," to a "vinyl sheathed metallic cable," that looped extension being only another 8-12" inches.

      My own wife strongly believes in "immediate correction" whenever possible. She carries a "Loopy Johnny," dissembled, with her all the time when we are together. (Disassembled, its an innocuous looking hollow tube near a random length of cord.) And she doesn't hesitate to remind me, when she feels it's appropriate, that she is "armed and ready." When she carries the "loopy" she also carries a custom fitted "football mouth-guard," for me.

      When needed, that combination of "loopy" and "mouth-guard" is almost perfectly silent. The loudest sounds, ever, are the husband's attempted vocalizations through his nostrils.

      A "loopy" would seem to solve almost all of the problems member's have recounted here about (1) travelling through airport security, (2) making noise during family gatherings, (3) disturbing other guests in hotels/motels, (4) etc. . .

      Just my thoughts on some things (e.g., "loopy") that might be quite useful in many situations. (Of course, the husbands' opinions might not be positive.)

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    16. Interesting comment about the ‘loopy Johnny’. It is quiet & portable but I have managed to discourage my wife from using it very often. It is painful but in some way (for me) it is the ‘wrong’ kind of pain, differing from the strap ( my ‘preference’ ) or cane in sensation. TB

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    17. My wife and I have found the loopy Johnny to be a very useful instrument for the reasons given.

      J

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    18. TB, I agree, though it also proved to be a pain for *her*. It had a big tendency to wrap back and hit her in the hand. It was a pretty unwieldy instrument.

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    19. In our experience, it depends on the cable used. If it is reasonably rigid and/or short cable, this is less likely. However, there is a trade-off, because if the cable is too rigid, it can limit options for how to tie it together in a hurry, if the intention is to make it non-descript when it is in a handbag, for instance. My wife says it is possible to reduce the risk of wrapping back: stopping the swing quickly after the strike has been made, rather than continuing the movement.

      J

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    20. Comments were made:

      (1) "[Loopies have] a big tendency to wrap back and hit [the] in the hand."

      (2) "If [the cable] is reasonably rigid and/or short cable, [wrapback] is less likely."

      (3) "{T]here is a trade-off, because if the cable is too rigid, it can limit options for how to tie it together in a hurry/"

      The loopy my wife carries is has a vinyl sheathed 3x18guage electrical cable. It has two "ferrules" clamped onto either end of the cable. The "handle" she carries is a 7/8"ID length of PVC pipe. The cable is flexible enough that the entire "bent" cable can be passed through the tube. She also carries a small plastic disc with a drilled hole. The disc is too large to pass through the handle; the hole in the disk is large enough for the cable (itself) to pass through; the hole to too small for the "feruled cable's ends" to pass through. Assembly: Cable through the disc; Cable through the hand; Disc prevents "business end" of cable from pulling through handle!

      There are many phrases I don't like to hear from my wife. High up on the list is:
      "Donn! Assembly the Loopy, Now!)

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    21. TB commented: "[Loopies create] the ‘wrong’ kind of pain, differing from [a] cane in sensation."

      Yes, the "expanded loop" of a "loopy" can feel quite different. One solution to make it feel much more like a "small cane" is to sharply bend the loop at the business end, so that both side of the cable are close together (within 1/8-1/4"), Such "bends" are easiest to maintain if the cord has a semi-rigid metalic core; a person can also slide a short length of Teflon(R) heat-shrink tubing over the closely bend end, then shrink that Teflon sleeve to maintain the bend.

      When the cords on both sides are held close together, the loopy behaves (and feels) very much like a "flexible cane," but MUCH quieter!

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  24. The third picture -- woman in red seated, "your choice" -- made me laugh because that is a key principle of parenting: give your kids a choice ... but a very limited one!
    By the way, and I know from reading back that this has been a topic before, my wife and I freely accepted that our DD was her acting in a "motherly" manner and that I was the "naughty boy." After all, our DD started with me confessing to my wife how my mother handled my disrespect. We saw no problem with this but I know it bothers some.
    KOJ

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    1. Honestly, it took me a while to accept the maternal aspects of DD and to acknowledge it was a driver for me. Someone pointed out to me that the masthead on the DWC website itself refers to it advocating a "maternal discipline orientation." I'd never noticed that. Oddly, I wasn't disciplined often by own mother and I don't have any deep feelings about her as a disciplinarian. Yet, your isolated reference to your wife asking you what your mother would have done about your behavior definitely stimulates me.

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    2. Having to choose between two or more bad choices - especially if you have to choose quickly or perhaps both will happen - is kind of a recurring them in my crazy fantasy thoughts.

      Also, as you probably know since I have said it numerous times here, I really like the whole "naughty little boy" sort of dynamic. Nor does any of this tie to my actual, mom. When my wife acts a bit more maternal during a spanking, she is not acting like "my" mom, but rather acting like "a" mom. In fact, one of my fantasies if I ever were to be spanked by anyone other than my wife would be for it to be someone who has her own pre-teen kids that she routinely spanks for misbehavior, or something like that, and that she just treats punishing me kind of the same as she would punish them.

      -ZM

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    3. "When my wife acts a bit more maternal during a spanking, she is not acting like "my" mom, but rather acting like "a" mom."

      Very good point.

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  25. Part #1

    Well, it looks like this week's discussion has reached a lull, and may be ending soon, and I notice that I have not directly answered Dan's original questions. In fact, it appears that KOJ and myself have somewhat diverted our discussion this week onto two unrelated topics: Prevalence of DD, and KOJ's experience of public chastisement.

    The system that my wife established, with my input, has evolved over the years. Particularly evolved as my need to improvement and corrections have decreased. In some ways our system may seem a little complicated, but once your understand it, I think you will understand how effective it is for us. (And parts may be useful for others. In fact. I suspect that Dan may have chosen this week's subject to obtain a survey of other possible methods that he could "pick-and-choose" from for his own use and improvement.)

    -------------------------------------

    First, there are specific expectations of myself and my wife. Her's are fairly simple: Inspect, evaluate and determine corrective actions to ensure "accountability."

    My own expectations derive from a variety of expected regular tasks, special non-recurring tasks, and various rules and "behavior guidelines" established by my wife.

    A large part of this is what I call the "cyclic to-do list," an Excel spreadsheet of every household, vehicle, personal, administrative and financial task that I must perform, correctly, on a regular basis. At the start of every week, the current date is entered into that Excel sheet, and that sheet auto-calculates, then sorts by date and priority, all of the tasks that should be completed that week. It also assigns "priorities" based upon "intended completion dates/deadline" and "base priorities" programmed into the sheet; assigns these values based upon time remaining until to intended completion date/deadline. Every task has that "baseline priority," one of four (4) levels, assigned by relative importance and possible consequences to our lives.

    The lowest category (1) has items like "wash the dog," "clean the furnace filter," or "reset lawn-watering timer for summer." The next more important category (2) has items like "check all outer lights of the car," "change motorcycle's oil and filter," or "clean interior and bottles in 'spice cabinet.'" The third most important category (3) has items like "pay the mortgage," "rabies vaccine for the dog," or "schedule yearly physical with doctor." The final, highest priority category (4) has items like "replace all smoke detector batteries," "inspect and service brakes on Chevy Pickup Truck," or "Plan special events for Wife's Birthday."

    All told, that "cyclic to-do list" has over a thousand different cleaning, maintenance, personal and administrative tasks that will regularly recur over a five-year period. The derived weekly list is printed out and mounted to a clipboard that hangs on our refrigerator, where I can check-off items, and it can be inspected by my wife.

    (cont. . .)

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    1. (. . . cont)

      Part #2

      Almost every week my wife also gives me her personal list of tasks she wants completed that week. Again, each item is assigned a relative important, on the same scale of 1-4. That list is also hung on the refrigerator.

      For the ""cyclic to-do list" and my "wife's weekly to-do list," my wife evaluates me on both (1) completion of the task, and often (2) "quality of performance." If I scrub the bathroom floor, the tasks is completed; if I miss "built-up grime" in one corner, that's a "failure in quality," for a net "NON COMPLETION OF TASK! (She maintains her own "private" "inspection sheet" for these purposes; I never know, until after the fact, if my work has been inspected and found to be deficient.)

      Over the years, my wife has also established a variety of rules that govern my general conduct. Again, all are assigned a relative importance using the four-point scale.

      Also over the years, my wife has developed, and communicated to me generalized "behavioral guidelines and goals." These are more "qualitative" expectations of my behavior towards her and other members of society. My wife uses her wisdom and judgement to assess and assign relative importance to a wide variety of possible behavior and transgressions.

      Finally, my wife regularly evaluates me based upon my having a "positive attitude" and my "overall mood." Again, my wife uses her wisdom and judgement to assess and assign relative importance.

      One of our most basic rules, from the very start of our relationship, is my complete "honesty and openness" with her. We have always interpreted this to include "self-reporting" of any deficiencies in my performance and conduct. If I fail to recognize any of my own deficiencies, but my wife does recognize that failure, I have violated the "openness" rule. If I believe that I completed a task, but my wife secretly found the "quality" to be lacking, that is a both a "failure to complete task" AND a "failure to accurately report" (a violation of the "openness" rule).

      My wife expects that I will record all of my self-assessed failures and transgressions, and their importance rating (1-4), in a loose-leaf notebook of carbonless/duplicate sheets that we keep on top of the refrigerator. She keeps her own "personal/private" loose-leaf notebook of her observations and evaluations of me in a similar format. Periodically she inspects our "public notebook," and then transfers duplicates of the pages to her "private notebook."

      Basically, overall, this is a systematic way to ensure all tasks, minor and major, are "timely completed" with "quality," and all failures and transgressions are recorded for later evaluation.

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    2. Great that it works for you two. Way too complicated for my marriage. To each his own.
      KOJ

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    3. Part #3B

      Dan's fifth (5th) photo of the woman in the yellow blouse, sitting in that "director's" chair, evaluating performance and misconduct from her "loose-leaf notebook" triggered a lot of powerful memories and feeling about our own "evaluation sessions."

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