The Club - Meetting 290 - Spanking in Anger and a Reprise on Asking For It

“Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.” – Aristotle

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

I am sorry for the later than usual posting, but it was one of those mornings.  Really, kind of one of those weeks. For once, I didn’t have much travel this week, though I had plenty of workplace activities.  It was another week in which I was productive, but to the point of not taking care of myself.  But, one of our kids is going to be around all weekend, and I have more work travel coming up next week.  So, I probably will not get punished; at least not in the next week. But, that is, to a big extent, my own fault.  We actually had some time alone at home on Thursday.  I was feeling a need for some enforced accountability, and I had planned to ask her to carry it out that night, reminding her that we likely would not have another opportunity.  I went up to our room a couple of times, while she was catching up on some paperwork for her job.  Since she was busy, I didn’t want to interrupt.  Or, that is what I told myself.  The plain fact is, it was really that conundrum of needing a hard spanking but not wanting it once the reality was staring me in the face.

Coincidentally, over the weekend I read a series of spanking stories entitled The Sinclair Method, https://voiceinthecorner.com/2014/03/07/the-sinclair-method/, after reading about it on The Venus & Cupid blog.  In one installment, one of the young women who are being trained to be more disciplined receives repeated spankings, all because she repeatedly fails to present herself and ask for it after she has been sentenced to one.  While this was a F/f series of spanking stories, there were themes that resonated with me, including learning to submit to someone else’s orders and authority, surrender, and the humbling of being required to be an active participant in your own spanking, including being forced to present yourself for it when you are ready.  The fact that “asking for it” resonated with me is a little paradoxical, and we’ve had exchanges here in which many of us have talked about how we want forced boundaries or consequences, and it is hard for it to feel forced when you are driving the process.  Yet, I think there is a relevant distinction here.  In the stories, the governess or trainer had already ordered the spanking, and also ordered the recipient to present herself, brush in hand that evening.  So, the disciplinarian remained very much in control, and part of exercising that control was forcing the recipient to spend some time anticipating the spanking to come and then screw up the courage to come upstairs, present herself for the spanking and ask for it humbly and contritely.  A few months ago, I did something kind of like that.  I had done something that didn’t really violate any rule, but that made me feel like I deserved to be punished for not stepping up on something I wanted to do.  I came to her, with paddle in hand, and asked her to spank me.  She did so, but only after telling me that she was working on something and that I should sit on the ottoman at the foot of the bed, back to her as she worked, until she was ready.  It was very humbling, and that spanking remains in my thoughts many weeks later. 

The bottom line is, I think I need to ask her to implement something like the stories, such that after she has ordered a spanking or I have reported on behavior that deserves one, I have to present myself when I am ready and ask her for one.  She can then decide whether to do it at that time, or keep me waiting longer. 

While everyone should feel free to talk about the above, it’s not the primary topic this week.  Instead, I want to extend the discussion about the wives’ demeanor during a spanking, from a particular angle.  Elizabeth and Frank talked about how she lectures and disciplines with a smile on her face, and it clearly works for them.  At the under end of the spectrum, I prefer it when my wife is all business and very strict verbally and in terms of her “no nonsense” demeanor.  ZM was somewhere in the middle, liking his wife’s nice, sweet side when discipline was not in play but wanting her to be more strict and tough in the DD context.

Right now, when my wife lectures before a spanking, it tends to be a bit like this:

 But, I feel I need it be more like this:

Why? Because the second has a better chance of humbling me and making me really surrender emotionally to what is about to happen. And, personally, I like it when my wife displays emotion before or during a spanking.  I think it is part of her learning to express her emotions and gain the confidence to say what she means.  I want her to know that it is OK to hurt not just my bottom but my feelings, because it may be that the reason I am bent over getting by bottom strapped or paddled is because I hurt hers.  Also, my ego is pretty strong, and I need more than just a cold, clinical application of the paddle to break down my defenses and really accept accountability. It also helps me to accept her authority if she is expressing herself like she really is in charge. I talked last week about how we are making some progress in her exercising more daily control, tightening the boundaries and keeping me in line.  I think the more she expresses her anger, the more those lines and boundaries are going to be authentic and real and, yes, maybe a bit non-consensual.

A few weeks ago, Tomy referenced times when Aunt Kay would spank in anger, and how those definitely created a very distinct impression, saying "She was very practical and a real mother bear. So discipline was simply "done when required." The times I got it when she was really angry were - extremely memorable."  I hope he will take this opportunity to tell us more about those times.  

How about you? Do you want your wife to express whatever anger she feels at your behavior?  Disciplinary Wives, does DD help you express your anger or disappointment more openly, or do you feel like that is something you need to control or suppress?

The Club - Meeting 289 - Verbal Strictness

"Know what? Bitches get stuff done.” – Tina Fey

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

Mine was nutty and harried and hard from start to finish.  I actually thought that things might wind down a bit as I got to Friday. Nope.  Things went from bad to worse thanks to an unexpected personnel issue that will now make my professional life even harder than it already was.  That was the state I was in when I got back home last night after a flight.  Burned out, frustrated, tired.  We went out to dinner and ran into another couple we know well, which was great though it led to some excessive drinking on my part.  My mind and body were still running on overdrive when we got home, and I was pretty tempted to spend some time either watching a movie or surfing the Net, or both.  But, Anne was having none of it.  She ordered me to turn off the computer and get ready for bed.  I was very resentful at the time, because that is how I react to being ordered around. But, it undoubtedly saved me from feeling even more tired and draggy this morning.

That all leads me into this week’s topic, which came to me after last night’s events and after catching up on some of the comments from last week.  You all carried on a great conversation without me, and I particularly liked the exploration of the relationship between self-discipline and discipline that is imposed externally, whether by a strong Disciplinary Wife or by a military drill sergeant.  I can understand Elizabeth’s concern about whether external discipline might actually become a crutch that inhibits the formation of self-discipline, but I think Alan really hits the nail on the head in observing that is it not a single spanking or sporadic discipline that helps those of us who lack internal regulators.  Instead, it is something that builds up over time, with consistency being the key.  

I also do think that if the goal is to modify certain behaviors, then it may not really matter whether the discipline comes from within or from without, as long as it gets the job done.  The military model is also interesting in that the drill sergeant has a lot of limits placed on him in terms of physical punishment.  The days of being literally whipped into shape are a thing of the past in today’s army and navy.  So, a lot of the discipline comes through strong verbal guidance and direction.  The military’s leaders express their dominance through strict discipline conveyed through strongly-worded verbal commands that convey their authority in such a strict and intimidating way that resistance is rare.  Another aspect of military training that dovetails with some of the things ZM and I were talking about regarding performing under challenging circumstances that in many cases those being trained are not, in fact, undisciplined.  Think of the SEALs.  Most of them are experienced operators before they undertake SEAL training, yet most of them scrub out of that program.  It just requires a completely different level of performance.  In those circumstances, the role of the trainers is to help those who can bust through their own self-limiting beliefs, pushing through those plateaus to reach a whole new level of performance they didn't even know they had in them.

I was thinking about all that in relation to Anne’s direction last night.  She was firm and resolute and made it clear that she was not backing down just because I was resistant and wanted to stay up later.  I have talked a lot about my need for externally imposed boundaries. Each of those three words are important.  If I had the ability to impose boundaries on myself, I would.  Since I don’t on a regular basis, I need the application of some external force to move me back onto the path.  And, because I am relative headstrong, the force has to be imposed.  If I ask for it or direct the process, then it isn’t really being imposed on me.  And, the boundary actually needs to be real.  It can’t be something that she adjusts every time I test it.  It needs to be me who yields, not her or the boundary she set.

What we are really talking about is strictness.  Setting a rule and making it stick.  Setting a standard and invoking real consequences if it isn’t met.  I didn’t have much of that growing up, which I suspect is why I crave it now.  And, I increasingly think it is that verbal strictness that I really want deep down inside.  I’ve run polls on the blog a couple of times regarding whether disciplined men want “more” or “less” of certain things in the relationship.  More or fewer spankings? Harder spankings, or less so? More rules or fewer?  There was a strong tilt toward more on every factor.  But, there was only one where 100% of respondents said they wanted more – verbal strictness.  Every single man who answered the poll (76 of them) said he wanted his wife to be more verbally strict.

Do I want that?  Much like being spanked, it is very dependent on timing.  I certainly don’t like or want it when it is happening.  Like last night.  Did I like her making me go to bed on time, like a teenager with a curfew?  Absolutely not.  I resented the hell out of it.  Not really because I resented her control in and of itself, but because I really wanted to stay up and decompress more from the bad week, and she was saying I was not going to be allowed to do that.  She set the boundary, and it was a real one as evidenced by the fact that as soon as I bumped up against it I resisted and resisted and hated that I had to stay within the bounds.  But, this morning I recognize it was, in fact, for my own good, and I appreciate her for being strict and unyielding with me last night.

For the men, do you want your wife to be more verbally strict?  Do you respond to the drill sergeant approach?  For the women, is being very commanding verbally something you are comfortable with?  I think this, more than any other aspect of DD, is where the deeply entrenched female concerns about “bitchiness” come into play.  I dug up a couple of comments on this from some old posts.  First, a perspective from one of the husbands:

“I did perceive my wife as bitchy, BEFORE we agreed on a DD program to correct things that I did that angered her. Truthfully, I agreed she had good cause for concluding I was a pain in the ass on some occasions. We listed those things and I gave her enforcement powers to paddle me as she felt I deserved when one of our agreements was violated. It didn't take long for her to really buy into enforcing that agreement. Nor did it take me long to eliminate troubling behaviors because the paddlings I got were painful enough to be avoided. But most importantly I know the rules, my wife is not bitchy (she is proactive at solving issues that were causing problems in our marriage) and I appreciate that because it solves the issue quickly. I would much rather have my wife paddle my behind good and hard than to listen to her bitching or giving me the silent treatment.”

Now a couple from the wives.  This one from Holly:

“I think we are all "bitches" to our husbands when the rubber hits the road (so to speak.) I reconciled myself to this long ago. The amusing thing is that growing up I thought my mother was a bitch for spanking too often and too severely. Now I find although I probably do not spank as often as she did, I certainly spank harder. If a wife wants results, she does need to be a “bitch” sometimes.  As Tina Fey said: " Bitches get stuff done.” I am not saying that being a bitch is necessary to be a good disciplinarian. But, sometimes being a bitch is just what is needed and don't be intimidated by the fact that someone (like your husband) might think you are a bitch once in a while.”

And, this one from my good friend Rhiannon, whose blog I have a link to:

“It must be difficult in many ways to be a submissive male, but it is also difficult to be a Mistress or a Female leader.  Retraining my mind so I don’t feel like I am just adding more to his plate or being a bitch is hard.  It is also hard to make the choices. To really think about being in charge, the impact my actions have on my husband and to strive with everything to make the best decisions I can.  But, it also is hard not to make the choices, and things go more smoothly for both of us the longer I stay in this new role.  And, in the end, it is so worth it.”

Let us know your thoughts on all this.  I hope you have a great week.

The Club - Vol. 288 - Changes

“A punishment to some, to some a gift, and to many a favor.” - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week. 

Mine remained crazy, though there were a few, incremental signs of settling in and adjusting my behavior in a slightly better direction. I did better on keeping up with the annoying administrative task I referenced last week.  I didn’t manage to complet it every day but I did get it done most days, which is a big improvement over prior weeks. I did have one major fail for the week, when a work-related social engagement took an unexpected turn.  It was something I didn’t cause or really even want, and one could argue it kind of had to be done.  But, that’s the way it goes sometimes with rules. Events spiral beyond your control. Best intentions, and all that. 

But, our current system is supposed to hold me accountable even when things spiral out of control, because the more rigorous accountability makes such spirals less likely in the future.  Or, at the very least it keeps some boundaries in place even if I have a tendency to drive outside them from time to time.  In that vein, one indication that things are settling in, though, is that earlier I felt like I was just so overwhelmed that punishment would not accomplish anything, but now I feel like rigorous discipline is necessary if I am to succeed.  ZM referenced this in one of his comments.  Here is an abbreviated version:

“Since the beginning of this year, I have been crazy busy and I keep hoping that she will not punish me for falling short of expectations, because it just seems so incredibly unfair to not consider how hard I am working and how impossible the circumstances are! However, as I read what you wrote, I realized that it is exactly at times like this that I most NEED discipline; the only possible way of climbing out of this situation is by executing perfectly day in and day out, which my general lack of self discipline guarantees won’t happen (at least on my own) or I wouldn’t probably be in this place! In other words, when she sees that I am struggling under a heavy load, her first instinct might be to be merciful to me and cut me a break, but by doing so she would be doing me a disservice. Instead, when she sees that I have an impossible load, that is the time that she might need to break out her paddles and canes regularly to keep me super motivated and on task. If she does this, she might just help me to overcome so I finally get some true rest and relaxation. . . And in fact, as I look back at the past few months (and for that matter the year before that), I can see that we would be in a much, much better place if she would keep cracking the whip, whether I want it or not.”

As I've alluded to, my wife has become a regular reader of the blog, and I suspect that she’s been following the comments on this issue and my evolving readiness to get on track with her help.  When I got to work Friday morning, I received a text from her saying, "You are grounded and will not be drinking alcohol this weekend." 

She also said I was in trouble for failing to do something yesterday, though she is factually wrong on that one.  But, when I pointed out she was wrong, she responded with a text saying, "Don't sass me."  No smiley face included.   

That is the kind of control—strict and with a decidedly maternal vibe—that I know I need right now.

On to this week’s topic.  Elizabeth better keep participating, because right now she is my primary source of inspiration. She suggested a topic focused on how spanking has changed the relationship with the spanking partner and “similarly, how has spanking changed your life outside of your relationship with your spanking partner? And are there ways you expected your life to change that have not transpired?”  Let’s focus on that latter part, since we have done the changes in the primary relationships many times.  So, how has spanking, and non-spanking discipline, changed your life outside the relationship with your spanking partner? What changes did you think would happen that have not?

A few of my own thoughts on things that have changed:

·      Productivity at work:  I’ve talked about this a lot lately, so I won’t go into much detail here.  While it is always a work in progress and there is plenty of room for improvement, I do feel like discipline has kept me from going off the rails many times and has kept me more focused than I might otherwise have been.

·      Workplace leadership: Being subject to discipline myself (and writing about it weekly) has made me a better leader at work.  I’m better at holding people accountable, but doing it in a controlled manner that doesn’t damage the people involved or my relationship with them.

·      Temper: Last year, I wrote about in incident in which I blew up on someone at work. Objectively, he sort of deserved it, but it still reflected immaturity on my part.  My wife’s solution was to make me apologize to him verbally (no emails), and that hurt far more than the paddling she gave me for it.  It also seemed to have a more lasting effect than any spanking, and I really have been more conscious of how I talk to others at work, even when provoked.

·      Family interactions: Similarly, Anne has spanked me more than once for saying things to the kids that weren’t particularly kind or sensitive.  I have gotten much better at holding my tongue in such situations and at offering apologies immediately when I have said something I know was excessive or not really fair.

What hasn’t changed?  Well, in general I think when I first found the DWC, I envisioned something like many of the fiction stories, not realizing that they are, in fact, fictional in more ways than one. I envisioned a more or less instantaneous change in our power structure, with her consistently spanking me for anything she saw as an offense and me surrendering to that authority.  It has been more incremental than that.  Her authority has not been exercised consistently and my surrender has been far from complete.  But, it’s always a work in progress, right?

The Club - Meeting 287 - Bratting

“We need to understand the difference between discipline and punishment. Punishment is what you do to someone; discipline is what you do for someone.” -  Zig Ziglar

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week. 

Mine was, as is so often the case these days, exhausting.  It was a combination of things this time.  I was fighting a cold all week.  I had bad bouts of insomnia.  And, last night, instead of going to bed to get a start on catching up on sleep over the weekend, I stayed up late watching a movie I’ve seen a hundred times.  And, yes, the movie watching followed an evening of dinner and drinks, followed by a nightcap or two at home.  Though, honestly, while it leaves me feeling bad today, in the moment it all felt like self-medicated decompression.  My weeks are so packed with activity right now, I hit Friday evening and just want to unwind fast and hard. 

But, I’m trying to face up to the fact that there are reasons, and then there are excuses.  And, the former can morph into the latter.  Moreover, sometimes even if you have very good reasons for less than optimal behavior, that bad behavior gets in the way of things you need to accomplish.  In those circumstances, even if there are justifications for the behavior, like being overwhelmed at work, you need to be held to a higher standard.  In fact, it is precisely when you are overwhelmed, treading water and in danger of going under that you need an extra dose of discipline to rise to the occasion you find yourself in.  Ideally, it would be self-imposed discipline, but some of us are  fortunate enough to be in Domestic Discipline relationships in which we are held to that higher standard when we can't seem to do it ourselves.  It's what we need, and so it is what we get.

I’ve talked about my "need" for boundaries many times, but when I think this through, “need” has two connotations. First, there is the emotional need that boundaries meet for some of us; the sense of security that for whatever reason some of us lack and that enforced boundaries can help us attain.  I'm really not "needing" discipline in that sense right now.  When I am operating at this pace, part of me actually gets off on the stress and the crazy level of busyness.  The "need" I have for boundaries right now is really external, not internal. If anything, right now I do not want to be spanked at all; the "need" I have at this moment is not an emotional yearning to be controlled.

But, I do recognize that I "need" discipline right now.  It is an externally centered "need," in the sense of something that is "required" or "necessary" for achieving an end.  I need enforced boundaries right now, because without them I am in danger of not performing at a level that is necessary for this new role I find myself in.   My response to the requirements of that role is to hit things really hard and plunge myself into it with everything I have, but without really eliminating anything I was doing before.  If  I keep at things like this, I am endangering my physical and psychological health through living too hard.  In this sense, the "need" is for discipline as something that is required or necessary to achieve some desired state--in this case performing in a more challenging environment than I have been in for a long time--while not destroying my health in the process.  

It is akin to being spanked hard for a bad report card – it’s something done out of caring and is for the recipient’s own good, regardless of whether it seems so to him at the time.  In fact, it may be the exact opposite situation of the internally felt need.  To continue the "bad grades" metaphor, I may feel perfectly fine in the moment when I am not focusing on what I need to do in order to earn a good report card and, in fact, might prefer to continue with exactly what I am doing.   But, that's short-term thinking. Those of us blessed with Disciplinary Wives get the benefit of someone making us think long-term.  

Well, enough on that for now, though I've had this nebulous idea of "tough love" as a topic on my mind for a while but haven't been able to come up with anything really concrete to explore about it. I'll keep mulling that and welcome any suggestions.

On the topic of topics, I was a little surprised by last week’s topic response, or lack thereof. I thought it was a great topic, but it didn’t seem to get much traction until the very end of the week, and not a whole lot even then.  It's the first time in a while that there were few, if any, comments the first few days it was up.  Though, it could be everyone was just busy earlier in the week. That happens sometimes. In any event, thanks to those who did weigh in and who took the time to put together actual comments responsive to the actual topic. 

Most weeks, I choose topics based on comments from the week before or based on things happening in my own life. That’s not really the case this week.  Instead, I thought of this topic a while back and put it on my list to address in the future,  because I thought some might have experience with it, even if I don’t personally.   

The subject is “bratting.”  I’m not sure I have ever encountered the verb form of “brat” outside the Dominance and Submission and DD contexts (the quote to the right is from a D/s-oriented Tumblr). But, in a nutshell, "bratting" is misbehaving intentionally in order to provoke a response or get attention. 

Bratting could take several forms, and could be a single incident or something that goes on for a long time.  It could be episodic, as in acting up on a particular occasion in order to provoke a response in that moment. Or, it could be something deeper, as in acting up frequently in order to trigger the other spouse to step up into a more dominant role. In fact, perhaps bratting could even be the impetus for the entire disciplinary relationship.  I am a reminded of a comment a few years ago by Holly, which touched on several interesting themes, including "bratting," consent, initiating the DD relationship, and mother/daughter relationships:

“Calling me a bitch was what led to my husband’s first appointment with the strap. He had done it before, but my mom heard it for the first time and told me I was a fool for allowing it. There were other things going on at the time, including his general brattiness and temper tantrums when he was frustrated. It was a big change for me, because I had been determined to manage my own marriage differently than my mom had done. But over a period of time, about three years, I saw the same behavior in my husband that had gotten dad in trouble with mom. When I told him what was going to happen, he gave me almost no resistance. That makes me think he wanted me to take charge and his brattiness and tantrums were his way of asking for it. He knew how mom had run things, and I think that made him want the same thing from me. The strap transformed him into a sweet loving husband. I don't think that would have ever happened if I had not acted, or to be honest, if mom had not pushed it."

I can honestly say that I don’t think I have ever intentionally acted badly in order to get a spanking or provoke a response from Anne.  At most, there are times when I’ve caught myself in bad behavior, or felt a sense of being out of control and not really able to rein myself in, and gotten frustrated when she didn't step up or wondered why she was not literally whipping me into line. But, I don't think I have ever taken that next step of continuing or amping up the bad behavior in hopes of triggering a response.

How about you?  Is bratting something you engage in?  If so, how has that worked out for you?  Is it an example of, “be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it”?  For the Wives, do you think your husband sometimes engages in bratty behavior intentionally to get your attention or to provoke you into a strong disciplinary reaction?  If so, what do you do about that?  Is the solution to make him very sorry for both the behavior and the bratting, basically making him regret this form of "asking for it"?  Or, do you have some other method of dealing with it?  Regardless of which end of the paddle you are on, tell us all about any personal experience you all have with this bratting phenomenon.

Have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 286 - How Has Discipline Changed the Disciplinarian?

“Lead by example. Women often wait for permission instead of acting, and I try to encourage bold action.” - Belinda Johnson

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

Mine was a marginal improvement on the week before.  Work is still pretty overwhelming, with too much work to keep up with.  But, unlike the week before when I felt like things were so overwhelming that failing to hit my own goals was really not my fault, this week as I got on top of things more and felt more in control, failing to hit the agreed-upon goals became something I am both responsible and accountable for.  Which is likely to be hard on my ass, literally, which leads me to update everyone on how things played out last week.   

After reading that blog entry, Anne decided that she was going to let me off the hook, but with one big caveat – it was not blanket forgiveness but, rather, “double or nothing.”  Screw up this week, and it would be much worse.  I haven’t tallied up yet what exactly that means, but the net-net is that while my behavior was better than the week before, the spanking will probably be worse.Which, I'm not looking forward to, but I did ask her to play this "coaching" role. Her practicality and down to earth wisdom were on prominent display with this Solomon-like approach to giving me a break while keeping up the level of control and maintaining reasonable boundaries.

We had a good discussion last week.  Comments on these “origin” themes so often illustrate the diversity of paths that lead people to this lifestyle, and the reactions of the respective parties are fascinating.  In a majority of cases, it is the men who put the ball in motion.  But, then there are situations like Alan’s, in which the parties seem to be almost co-instigators.  And, while none popped up on this round, there have been a few female commenters who played the lead role in initiating the DD relationship.  There was, for example, this from “Holly,” whose father was spanked by her mather,  and she later “imposed” such a relationship on her not-so-unwilling husband:

“I knew it was real from the first spanking I administered because I knew men can be managed with a strap if a woman is determined. I had also suspected for a while my husband wanted this. Our dating relationship really became serious when he found out my father was punished. He never directly asked me to take control but I was certain he would accept it, and I was right since I received no resistance when I told him what was coming. Also, the way he stripped and presented his ass to me on command convinced me I was right.”

Holly, if you’re out there, would love to have you back as a commenter, along with Marisa and others who have dropped out along the way.

While Holly may be the exception to the rule, our wives’ reactions do run the gamut from downright enthusiastic, to perplexed but tenuously cooperative, to initially repulsed.  While the tales of men who were rejected initially do suggest that some caution is in order, I still think in the grand scheme of things the prevailing lesson here is “If you don’t ask, you don’t get.”

Some of you probably noted that Anne did not take me up on my “hint-hint” that she should chime in with her recollection of our origin story.  One explanation for that, and for her ongoing silence, is she just doesn’t seem very interested in participating (yet) as a commenter, though she has become a regular reader.  (On the first day this one was posted, she commented that Joe2’s initial rejection was “heartbreaking.”)  K.D. has said that his Rosa is much the same; despite a genuine and enthusiastic interest in participating in DD in the real world, she seems to have little or no interest in talking about it in the virtual one.  But, in this case Anne’s decision not to give her side of our story is more particular than a general lack of interest in participating.  Instead, surprisingly, she just doesn’t remember the whole conversation in which I initiated things.  She does remember the subsequent conversation in which she told me buy a hairbrush, and she does remember me bringing one home to her that night. But, she really doesn’t recall the preceding conversation in which I put the whole thing in motion.  Her summary of the poor state of her memory is interesting: “Well, I guess I must not have thought it was that weird if I don’t remember my reaction to you suggesting it.”

On to this week’s topic. It is, once again, a suggestion from Elizabeth, though I’ve had this one on my own list of potential topics for a while.  Elizabeth asked:

“How has the disciplinary wife changed since she began wielding the paddle? (This could be answered by either spouse or both).” She followed up with, “My point is that holding him accountable has improved my ability to hold myself accountable.”

Let’s follow up on those, including both the broader and narrower versions of her question. First, and broadly, how have our Disciplinary Wives changed as a result of taking up the paddle?  Has she gained confidence?  Become more decisive?  Perhaps become more sexually dominant?  All of the above?

And, what about leading by example and being accountable as leader?  Has being the disciplinarian resulted in the wife stepping up her own game?  Does she walk her talk?  For example, if he gets paddled for being a slob, does she generally keep her own stuff organized and in place?  I’ve always said that being a good leader is hard work, and part of that is the challenge of leading by example.

So, tell us about how the Disciplinarian has changed in any respect as a result of the disciplinary relationship.

The Club #285 - First Conversations and Origins

“Though it seems curious, I do not remember ever asking for anything but what I got it.' - Sojourner Truth

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine was, as is becoming a theme, exhausting.  Just bone-numbingly exhausting.  I can’t tell yet whether I am killing it in this new work role, or whether it is killing me. I think it will settle down as I put out some of the existing fires, but it’s depressing how many new ones ignite just when I think I have the old ones under control.  But, last year I was bored, and this year I’m massively over-stimulated. Between the two, I’ll take the latter.

But, this level of busyness does have some implications for Domestic Discipline.  Last week, I previewed the new reporting and accountability system we are trying, and for once we carried through with it.  I ended up with three consecutive sessions of five minutes each, with the leather strap, a mixed session with cane and paddle, and a short leather paddle/strap with holes.  The latter, which I received as a Christmas “present” under circumstances I will keep to myself other than to thank (sort of) the person responsible, is surprisingly painful.  Because it is short and pliable, it has this interesting way of curling up into the inside of the cheeks, which unlike the rest of my butt have not been spanked for 15 years and, hence, are a lot more sensitive.  Ouch.  The sequential spankings that added up to 15 minutes total, with intervening corner time, did seem to fit the purpose I hand mind, namely I remained very conscious that I could have avoided one or more of the independent rounds of punishment and corner time by behaving, so the power to control the extent of my punishment was in my own hands.   

One other lesson: I am finding that I just don’t really bruise from spankings anymore.  Even 15 minutes of very hard spanking left me bruise free, except for those parts of my inner cheeks that the leather paddle reached, and some marking on my thighs where the can wrapped around.  Yet, despite the lack of bruising, my butt remained very sore for several days.

The implications of this system for this week are interesting, and we will see how she chooses to handle it.  The plain fact is that under the system I myself created, last week was a total fail.  I didn’t work out. I didn’t keep up with the annoying administrative task.  Yet, I was productive.  Almost too much so.  It's not really an excuse, so much as an explanation.  I had work-related social engagements tied to the new role every single night, and these weren't things I initiated or could easily get out of.  The week began with an unexpected "crisis," and I was stressed to the gills and waking up repeatedly every night thinking about work stuff, plus I had early morning meetings every day.  The lack of sleep, early morning meetings and functions after work made it all but impossible to work out, as I just didn’t have any available block of time unless I wanted to get even less sleep.  And, each day was spent jumping from one fire to another, in a way that left me totally overwhelmed and whipsawed, to the point that I just didn’t have the time to keep up with all the administrative tasks.  So, my failure wasn't about not being productive or not trying hard; quite the opposite.  It was just an overwhelming week, struggling to keep my head above water. There is a story on the DWC website's "Real People" section called Bringing Out the Little Boy that touches a little bit on how things felt when I got home last night, beaten up by the week that was finally over:  http://auntkaysdwc.com/.

Now, I am not letting myself entirely off the hook. The work-socializing exacerbated some of my own problem habits, and I could have exercised more self-discipline there.   But, I really do feel like it was an exceptional week, and I did about as well as I could under the circumstances.  So, my plan is to report honestly but to also give that context, and the rest is up to her.

Last week’s topic — well, as Alan pointed out – there was some “straying” at the end.  But, that’s okay.   I don’t mind straying if it is clever and engaging, and for those of us with a philosophical bent, it was good. If it also functioned as spanko-repellent for those who come here only to look at spanking porn and make inane comments about mothers-in-law and facing the wall, all the better.

As for this week, a couple of weeks ago Elizabeth suggested some “origins”-related topics.  While we do those fairly frequently, we also do seem to have picked up several new commenters in the last few months. So,  I’m fine opening that topic up again, particularly since Elizabeth's phrasing of the sub-topics focuses on the communication process around initiating the DD relationship and the parties' respective reactions to that communication.  Great angles that hopefully will attract some good observations from our more serious commenters.  And, as with our philosophical meanderings last week, if exploring feelings and real-world communications scares off a certain segment of our readership, all the better.  For myself,  I always enjoy hearing how others got into this thing we do, because I still maintain that it is not a very common lifestyle and getting into it displays the kind of openness, courage, and mutual support that couples should be proud to share, encouraging others to ask for what they want and to be open to giving it even if it seems a little weird at first.

With that lead in, Elizabeth’s suggested topic and sub-topics are:

For the husbands who initiated DD:

·      How exactly did you approach your wife/partner?

·      What did you say?

·      How did you work up the courage? How long did it take you?

·      And what was her initial reaction? Did it change?

·      How long until your first spanking? Was it all you expected it to be?

    For wives who were approached:

·      How did your husband approach you?

·      What was your initial reaction? Did it change?

·      How did you decide to spank him?

·      What was that first spanking like? How did you feel?

And for those where the husband did not initiate: Tell your story!  Because, "asking for it" can be through words or actions, right?

I am not going to go into my own origin story in detail, as I’ve told it here repeatedly. Though, Anne is always free to jump in and tell her side of it.  Hint, hint. 

But, I will respond to a couple of Elizabeth's specific questions.

How did I approach her?  I did it after I found the DWC website and spent a weekend devouring it.  We were in bed, with the lights off, and I told her in general terms what it was about.  I'm not sure I could have done it any other way, except maybe by email, because I was so embarrassed by the whole thing.

What exactly did I say?  A lot.  Much of it centered on how this was not kink, or not just kink but, rather, about giving her real power to dole out real punishment for real offenses.  I also told her that the spankings were so real that the expectation was the husband would end up crying. That one turned out to be more fantasy than reality, but I do remember making that point to her, because I was trying to show that I was not suggesting a continuation of the short stint of erotic play-acting that we had tried in the past and that she felt might encourage bad behavior.

How did I work up the courage?  Well, I really felt like I didn't have much choice.  After I read the stories and other content on the DWC website, I was so overwhelmed by the whole thing that I couldn't think of anything else.  It was front and center in my mind all day and all night.  I  really couldn't NOT tell her about it.  It was truly an obsessive kind of thing, and as far as I recall the first time I had experienced anything like that.  I was aroused and scared at the same time.  And, to be clear, not scared that she wouldn't do it.  Scared that she would.  Yet, here I was asking for it.  It was all very paradoxical and perplexing, but the whole idea of it resonated so strongly for me that I had no real choice but to at least tell her about it and let the chips fall where they might.

How long did it take? I don't recall exactly, but it was short.  Probably two or three days.

What was her initial reaction?  She didn't say very much on the night I told her about it.  She listened, she said she she would check out the DWC website, and that was about it.  I would characterize it as puzzled, open, but noncommittal.   I recall going to sleep even more wired and on edge, because I had no idea what to expect.  Honestly, I thought the most likely scenario was she wouldn't follow up at all, or would reject the idea as just more erotic spanking with the potential to encourage even more bad behavior, and that would be that.  But, she called me at work (I think it was the next afternoon, though I don't have a clear memory of that.)  She said she had looked at the website.  Her only initial comment was, "Very interesting."  She then said that if I was serious about it, sI better go buy a heavy hairbrush.

How long until the first spanking?   She gave me my first spanking that same night.  

Was it all that I expected?  In a word, no.  We had so little experience with this, and didn't appreciate how hard it is to give a really effective spanking OTK with a hairbrush.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think it is likely to be effective only with a very experienced and serious spanker.  It took more experimentation and more serious tools, including a wooden "fraternity"-style paddle, before it became very real.  I still recall the first time it really hit home that I might have asked for more than I had bargained for. We had instituted a system of assigning points to each type of offense, with each point representing one swat with the paddle.  While my spankings up to that point had averaged between 10 - 25 swats, I had an exceptionally bad week, and I gulped when I realized it added up to 60.  She had never given me anything close to that before. I said something about not being sure I could take that many, and without skipping a beat she told me that I was going to take that many and that if I hadn't wanted that many then I should have behaved better.  That's what I mean when I say that without much hesitation, she took to the spanking part of this thing we do like a duck to water.

I hope you all have a great week.

The Club Meeting #284 - For Each Crime, A Punishment

"If the same punishment is prescribed for two crimes that injure society in different degrees, then men will face no stronger deterrent from committing the greater crime if they find it in their advantage to do so." - Cesare Beccaria

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

While tiring, this week was a little better than last.  Not as much socializing.  Things settling into a bit more of a routine, though I don't think there is any way to make business travel easy or healthy.  It's just a grind.  But, with the return of that grind and the temptations to unhealthy living that go along with it, the ebbing interest in Domestic Discipline that happened over the holidays is resurgent.  While I can’t say I am quite “ready” for, or “wanting,” a spanking, I definitely am due for one and probably "need" it in that twisted way that those who are driven to this thing we do understand.

Anne and I have been talking about how to get back on track; a conversation we've had perhaps too many times over the years, to such an extent that it's hard to deny that what we are lacking is not thought and planning but, rather, commitment and diligent execution.  Both my business life and my personal life impress that that truth upon me -- intention, planning, strategy -- all are absolutely worthless without committing to something in a real way and actually doing it even when inconvenient or hard.  It happened to us again this week.  For once, I carried through on my goal of self-reporting on Saturday morning, entering the week's bad behavior in the journal I bought her for Christmas. When Saturday night came around, she didn't order the spanking and I didn't bring it up.  And, honestly, that seemed OK at the time because we had not seen each other for most of the week, and some non-spanking intimacy seemed more important.  But, she did say she intended to do it the following day.  Then Sunday came around, and I managed to avoid punishment again. So, despite a step forward on the reporting front, and despite us both agreeing it was earned, and both agreeing it would happen, and both making efforts to make it happen . . . it still was avoided.  I’m not blaming at all.   We both were responsible for this fail.

It got me to thinking that we often focus on things we need to add to our DD routine to encourage effective and immediate punishment, but what we really need to focus on are the the impediments to it, i.e. the things we need to subtract in order to make room for discipline and also to make sure our commitment to it overcomes all the distractions and temptations.  One really obvious impediment is timing.  For whatever reason, we have almost always carried out her Domestic Discipline sentences on the weekends.  Part of the reason is, we both have busy jobs and our evenings are often filled with catching up on work related tasks or preparing for the next work day.  But, Sunday nights often aren't much better, nor are nights when I will be traveling the next day.  Those days are the WORST for making discipline actually happen, because we both are busy catching up on work stuff, preparing for the work week, and basically taking care of everything we need to get done in our "real" lives.  Laundry, dishes, grocery shopping, left over tasks from the week before, packing for travel, etc.  It just doesn’t leave enough time for much of anything else.

The challenge lies in the fact that my work life is getting busier and busier, and as a result I really need to be disciplined right now.  Not in the sense of corporal punishment, but in the sense that if I don't act in a disciplined way, i.e. don't focus at work and execute on the most important tasks day in and day out, I am going to fail.  And, if I can't manage to be self-disciplined, then that is where the corporal punishment does come in.  In light of those things, I made a couple of proposals to her.

First, our "rules" have always included things that focus on "personal improvement" and goal setting. I think of these things falling into the  category of "coaching" or "tough love."

With this new job, I need her "firm hand" more than ever.  Last year, there were times I was not performing all that well (largely because of boredom), but now the demands on my time are greater than ever.  I absolutely must pare down on the distractions, get focused, and stay up with things that I've shirked on in the past.  

Although in the past I have had lengthy lists of things on which I want to improve, when I look at the things that sap my time and energy or hold me back, there are really a handful that matter.  To be successful in this role while maintaining balance, I really need to focus on three things:

(1) Administrative shirking: There is one work-related activity that I won't specify here, as it is too revealing of what I do for a living, but it is an administrative task that is core to what we do but also incredibly annoying and distracting.  Ideally, I would keep up with it no less than daily, but because it is so annoying, I tend to put it off all week then spend way too much time every weekend trying to catch up. If I want to have time to unwind when I am home on the weekends, it is critical that I keep up during the week.

(2) Productivity: Despite having much I could be doing, I find myself distracted and unfocused, spending too much time surfing the ‘Net, chatting with colleagues, etc.  I spend too much time in the office for so much of it to be pissed away.

(3) Workouts:  I also need to stay healthy despite all the negative dietary and workout temptations that travel entails.  I am pretty self-disciplined when it comes to working out during the normal work week when I am working out of my regular office.  But, things really fall apart when I am on the road.  I regularly wake up at 5:00 am to workout when I am not traveling, but for some reason I just can't bring that same self-discipline to things when I am traveling.  Yet, it is those periods when I really need to workout more, because my diet also tends to get worse when living in airports and hotels.  So, if I don't find a way to exercise regularly, my health will suffer.

So, while there are other "personal growth" goals that are important, the preceding three really are the ones that matter the most right now, and they are the ones on which I have asked her to show me the most “tough love,” taking on the role of "success coach," and holding me accountable.  Much like getting spanked for a bad report card.

It is one of those things that fall comfortably into our discussion last week of maternal discipline.  Bad grades may not affect a mom directly, but she can have an important role in helping the failing or floundering student take responsibility, maintain focus and achieve important goals. 

In an entirely separate category is “payback," i.e. those things that have nothing to do with helping me perform for myself and everything to do with punishment for failings in my relationship with her.  This category is all about her having the ability to express her displeasure or annoyance with me in the most concrete way.  For those things that affect her personally (disrespect, eye-rolling, attitude, chores, etc.) she should always be empowered to spank or impose other punishment and to do so at her absolute discretion.  And, since those happen in her presence and both of us are available then and there,  ideally there should be immediate consequence for my behind.
       
Now, all of this got me thinking about some exchanges we had on this blog a few months ago with "Helen."  She talked about how important it was that each offense got its own punishment.  Spankings for each offense might be separated by only a few minutes, with him doing intervening corner time, but there was that separation.  This made a lot of sense to me, because otherwise there is almost a perverse incentive to keep offending after one spanking has been earned, since I am going to get one anyway.  Looking back, we did something a little like this at the very beginning of our DD relationship, when we would tally up offenses and the minimum number of swats associated with them.

So, I have suggested to my wife that we try to remove some of these impediments, get back to basics, and make sure there is always a disincentive to further offending after one spanking has been earned,  My suggestion to her is as follows (I have yet to get her input on this plan):

Every Saturday morning, I will fill out our journal by 10:00 am and bring it to her.  The key is that it will be filled out and discussed that morning before we run off to do errands, etc., and then an actual disciplinary "appointment" set.  If there are issues that need “addressing,” she will tell me that and set a time when we both will make ourselves available that afternoon or early that evening.  In the rare event that we just cannot make that day work, it has to happen on Sunday.  But, the key is there has to be an actual time set, so we both commit to it and know it is going to happen.  We can then plan our day around it, completing our errands and other commitments, or interrupting them as necessary so she can "take care of business."

In order to ensure each offense gets the treatment it deserves, there should be a “separate” spanking for each offense, separated by corner time or other waiting on my part.  We have a small sand dial, and my suggestion is that she she use it to measure out strappings in five minute increments.  So, each significant offense (such as each day I don't complete the annoying administrative task by the time I head home from the office) gets a strapping for five minutes.  Or, perhaps instead of measuring the time spent spanking, there might be some set number of swats with the paddle or strokes with the cane.  After each set is delivered, there would be a significant break, such as 5 minutes of corner time or time spent sitting at the foot of the bed.  During that period, she can go back to working on whatever tasks she needs to accomplish, or just watch TV or read a book.  But, the idea is to limit the impact on her time but maximizing it for me.  The intervening breaks also would serve to limit any numbing from the immediately previous spanking set, thereby maximizing the deterrent effect on a per-offense basis, ensuring that there is always an incentive to limit bad behavior because each offense gets treated separately.  Let’s say I missed four days of my annoying administrative task:

She would give me four separate "sessions," of five minutes each, for a total of 20 minutes but also with 20 minutes of intervening corner time.  So, she loses 20 minutes, but I lose 40. This could make for some very frustrating afternoons for me, and unlike our current “one size fits all” sessions, it would give me a real incentive to keep the number of offenses low. Given my issues with short attention span and the annoyance I feel when someone interrupts something I'm doing, imposing wait times that stretch what used to be a a 5 or 10 minute session into close to an hour could be more of a punishment than the spanking itself.

That was a very long introduction to this week's topic, which is whether you have implemented some similar program to ensure that separate offenses do not get lumped together into one session and to ensure that there is always an incentive to behave better, even after one spanking has been earned but has not yet been delivered?

For me, the prospect of separate spankings really does affect my mind-set and, I think, my behavior. While on the road this week, I had already done some things to earn a spanking.  However, on Thursday when I was tempted to sleep an extra hour and skip a workout in the hotel gym, the thought came into my head that I was just earning myself another five minute strapping by doing that, and that the tally was already unpleasant to contemplate.  So, I got up and did the workout.  And, I am about to go do one now!

Have a great week!