Happy Saturday to you all. I'm going to be heading out on a little adventure next week. There will be periods when I don't have a cell signal or won't be near a computer. And, with so many of you getting messages sent to spam, I won't be able to regularly check for and release imprisoned messages. So, I'm going to forego posting a new topic until a few days after I get back.
Enjoy the spring weather, if it's nice where you are.
Dan.
“A person’s success in life can usually be measured by the number of uncomfortable conversations he or she is willing to have.” - Tim Ferriss
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the Disciplinary Wives who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
I hope you had a good week. Mine was pretty uneventful, though I also felt like I got a decent amount accomplished over the course of the week. It’s hard to attribute it to any one thing, but it may not be coincidental that DD has been on my mind a lot lately. It comes and goes, but for no particular reason I can identify, I feel like I’ve gotten past a temporary flat spot, where my interest level was low.
In any event, this week’s topic relates to a comment left a couple of weeks ago. by a reader going by “DD”. I actually quoted it in last week’s post, but for another purpose, and since there is a lot of good stuff in it, I’m posting it again in full.
“My wife was the one who was very strict out of the gate and she has continued to be strict. I get spanked somewhat less often only because I am better behaved. I would never try to force my wife to enforce a zero tolerance policy but she is that way on her own. It took some adjustment initially and it certainly changed our relationship dynamic to something more FLR and I see her differently than I used to. I have a new/different respect for her and see her as the authority in the relationship. She says she still sees me the same but she does treat me differently in her role. I think because of the effectiveness of the dynamic in the beginning spanking to her is like a hammer and every issue is a nail. It is certainly her go to. Over time its only become more that way and she always finds new behaviors or things to add to what she will spank for. She used to try and talk or scold about things up front then spank after but she shifted to spanking with scolding up front then talking after because she likes that the spanking takes care of any potential ego or defensiveness that might become argumentative. Being argumentative in other context is also a spank-able offense.”
Sometimes a reader’s comment sticks in my brain, and when that happens it often suggests a new topic, or at least a new angle on an old topic.
This time, something about the lines I bolded above, concerning talking after the spanking struck home.
When it originally got my attention, I
equated the reference to "talking" after the spanking with getting scolded or lectured afterward, not simply a post-spanking discussion about the spanking itself. I think that's what DD meant but, in any event, that's how I'm leveraging it for purposes of this week's discussion.
Anne and I do talk after spankings. We often talk a lot. But, it’s usually in bed and it’s usually me doing a lot of the talking. And, it’s usually not about the particular behavior that got me spanked. Moreover, nothing about it feels like a continued scolding or lecture.
Rather, what I was focusing on in DD's comment is the notion that instead of scolding before a spanking—or perhaps in addition to that—the wife might choose to convey her thoughts about his behavior after giving him the well-deserved butt blistering.
As DD suggests, the theory for switching up the more typical sequence of lecture and spanking would be that after the spanking the husband’s ego likely is much reduced and, therefore, he is likely to be more open to really hearing what she is trying to convey.
Alan referred to it as “back-loaded” scolding, observing:
“Yes, a very interesting observation, somewhat counter-intuitive to the normal dynamic, but it is a way of taking care of the ego problem, which must be managed to make DD effective. This is reminiscent in some measure to the effect of preventative spanking. Both prepare a male for the behavior expectations that follow. But, I appreciate and probably need my wife's scolding before paddling. But, if she doesn't get my ego under control, the spanking is a lot less effective even when she scolds. To listen to what she is saying, one does need to become accepting and non-defensive. I imagine what DD is describing would produce that state.
There also could be an opportunity for a good dialogue. One, because her anger or irritation will be less because you have already been punished and probably humbled. Two, because you are likely to be less defensive and more objective because you are not facing a looming spanking.
A pre-spanking lecture probably is more typical than one where the heart of the discussion is reserved for after the spanking. And, for some those can reduce the ego and leave you feeling like that much younger man about to get spanked by a stern authority figure.
Although it doesn’t happen much this way for us, I think for me a scolding right before the spanking would be something more like this meme, i.e. extremely short and direct.
Or perhaps something more like this by RedRump, after she's told me earlier in the day that I'm getting a spanking, and after I've had a chance to stew over it a bit, but while she is still feeling most of her original anger or annoyance.
In our relationship, I think to the extent there is a value to a pre-spanking lecture it’s more about her getting something off her chest.
For me, when a lecture has worked, it’s tended to be well before the spanking, and it’s been more like a cross-examination, with her leading me calmly through exactly what I did, with a series of “yes/no” questions that take me through what I did bit by bit, leading to the inevitable conclusion; a short declaration from her that I’m getting a spanking later that day.
That sequence allows her to get it off her chest, makes me essentially sign on fully to my own punishment, and leaves me a few hours to think about what is coming.
However, while I’m sure it is far less typical, I can see potential benefit in leaving a lot of her side of the discussion to after the spanking. It’s not often that there is any disagreement about whether I deserve a spanking, but it does happen. And, even when I agree in my head that I deserve one, I’m not always in a fully humbled state that leaves me feeling more vulnerable and open to really hearing her message loud and clear.
As several of us have talked about before, a spanking has this very odd way of changing your attitude about why you are being punished. As Al said:
“Nothing like a strong dose of the paddle to straighten out an attitude. But, in all seriousness, there's been plenty of times when I submitted to a spanking begrudgingly, pissed off about something, and convinced that I was right and she was wrong (spanking or not) - only to emerge from the spanking with a much different point of view. Interesting how that works.”
Because my attitude can change so profoundly from immediately before the spanking to immediately after, it does seem like reversing out typical ordering of the scolding first and the spanking second might help me respond more openly and constructively, especially given that during the pre-spanking lecture my contributions usually are relegated to a few “Yes, Ma’am” responses to her lecturing.
I’m not sure whether it would work for her, but when lecturing before a spanking, she sometimes seems pretty casual about the whole thing. On the other hand, she sometimes sounds more stern and strict immediately after the spanking, like she’s still really feeling the power and authority embodied in just having let me up after going over her knee.
A post-spanking discussion also might, in a subtle way, reinforce her place in the hierarchy. Coincidentally, I found this
captioned spanking meme in my Tumblr feed shortly after I started thinking
about a topic on post-spanking lectures. Alan has talked in the past about how he is allowed to plead his case, but generally only after he's already been spanked. Although perhaps that feels less "fair", it also seems like a very effective sequence for emphasizing her discretion to spank for any reason.
To me, it may reflect another situation in which a post-spanking lecture might work well, i.e. on those rare occasions when we are not on the same page about whether a spanking has been earned. It really has not happened often, but there were a few times last year, when she was becoming more strict and more prone to follow her own views about certain things, that she spanked me for things like being too aggressive or domineering in conversations, that I felt like there really were big differences in how we saw the situation, which the spanking did not resolve. I think the lack of resolution was related to my ego defenses being too strong for that “different point of view” that Al talked about to emerge. It is possible that moving right to the spanking with little discussion, followed by heart-to-heart later might have given her the same or better opportunity to give me her perspective while I was more open to hearing it, even if the outcome that her view wins remained exactly the same.
When done well, scolding can have a power that exceeds—or at least augments—a spanking, particularly if the man is prone to want more verbal strictness.
And, it does seem like most of us want scoldings to be more frequent and perhaps harsher. I once polled the group (back when Blogger had a polling widget) about what they wanted more of in their DD relationships, and “verbal strictness” was the only option that 100% of the respondents agreed with.
For me, in addition to the benefits of having one’s ego humbled and then having an open conversation about it, there’s something that feels very maternal about augmenting a hard spanking with a discussion about what got me there. Although I try to go into each spanking open to the lesson she is trying to give, at the end of one I am much more compliant and in a headspace that feels much more like I’ve been chastised by someone with real authority over me. It feels much more like a school or parental spanking after it is over.
Finally, I suspect—though I do not know for sure—that scolding and lecturing after a spanking might be even more empowering for Anne. As I alluded to above, her expressiveness, and the sternness with which she expresses herself, seems to increase over the course of a spanking. When she dismisses me at the end of it, she seems to be really feeling her power. It seems like that might be the best time for her to reiterate why the spanking happened and what her expectations are for better behavior in the future.
We’ve talked about scolding a few times before, but I don’t think we’ve talked very much about the issue of timing. For those of you for whom scolding/lecturing is part of the dynamic, is it most effective before, during or after the spanking? Is there a certain sequence that seems to break down your ego, or empower the wife, most effectively?
I hope you all have a great week.
Stop setting goals. Goals are pure fantasy unless you have a specific plan to achieve them." - Stephen Covey
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the Disciplinary Wives who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
I hope you all had a good week. Mine was pretty tame. Which I guess was good. Lots of setting tinkering with a new motorcycle for an upcoming adventure trip.
Thank you to all who participated in our discussion last week, despite the fact that it took a little political detour.
“Zero tolerance” seems like a simple concept in theory, but there plainly are a lot of nuances. Although maybe it’s just another way of articulating the goal of being consistent, it seems to me to also incorporate the notion of a special level of strictness.
Although our wives sometimes seem to struggle with implementing anything approaching “zero tolerance” in day-to-day practice, our discussion did give some examples of reasons to try. For example, Norton discussed how consistent strictness has helped him with at least two fairly serious issues:
“This should prove to be a popular topic, as many of us have expressed a desire for more consistent strictness and accountability. Often it seems like life just gets in the way. Also, she might not always be in the mood. A few years ago she helped me reduce my drinking with very consistent hard spankings when I went over my limit. I did self report, and would always send her a text as soon as I realized it happened. The other major issue has been what she would consider reckless driving. We have different standards for what that is, but it basically means that if she is in the car and I make her nervous, I will be spanked. That definitely has changed my driving habits.
Similarly, Mike W.’s wife is getting results with “helping” him keep his temper under control, which is something I struggle with and is very hard to control because it comes on suddenly:
“Zero tolerance” is often a struggle for my wife Sue to achieve - either because she is tired, too busy with life in general, or in pain with a recurring shoulder injury . However we both agree that zero tolerance is important if the goal is behaviour change. There is indeed a risk that it can lead to punishing every little thing. We have gotten around that by specifying a small number of highest priority problems for immediate action.
A good example is my tendency to lose control when I am upset and have an angry outburst. She will “start small” and spank at the very first sign of me raising my voice. And quite severely. The idea is that small problems can be prevented from developing into major blowups, often in mid-sentence.
Mike W.
Norton and Mike W.’s experiences confirm the effectiveness of quick and certain action. Yet, both of them refer to the challenge of maintaining consistency, attributing it to “real life” getting in the way.
ZM, however, offers a competing view about whether the real impediment to consistency and strictness is just the distractions of real life:
I
think this "life getting in the way" thing often has nothing to do
with the busyness of life, though of course that is very much a thing as well.
Rather, I think the key issue is that most of our wives - even those that
really get off on the exercise of power - really can't get their heads around
the idea that we really want and need them to be strict. As a result, even as
they hear what we are saying, and even if they really like spanking us and
showing their power, they are always afraid of overdoing it, because they just
can't imagine wanting what we want. And while this is bad enough by itself, it
is even further complicated by us visibly not wanting it at the time and
needing it to feel non-consensual (of course actually consensually
non-consensual).
I think down deep she is a bit afraid of unleashing her "inner bitch" for fear of what she might discover about herself or might become. For me, I love the thought of her exercising significant control if even just for limited things, but at the same time, I fear losing freedom and am at least in some way fearful that I could resent her, even if it is my own action that brings the discipline and even if it is me who want her to be super strict.
Having said all that, there is a huge part of me that deep down really wishes that she would put her foot down and do whatever it takes with absolutely zero tolerance on certain agreed issues, and in the process, squash any resistance I might put up.
A good friend, Rhiannon, who I met through our respective blogging about DD and FLR issues, talked about the challenges involved in being a consistently assertive wife in a DDFLR relationship:
I am a person who likes the tangible and concrete. I love specific examples and particular scenarios to kind of find a baseline and then be able to apply it. I have found that is far less possible in a FLR than I first thought. I had hoped that once I decided to lead, and he to follow, that it would kind of just work like that. I would give commands and set expectations, and he would follow them and provide his active participation as requested. And we would have an established system related to consequences that would set our life on a clear and regulated path.
So much for that pipe dream. In some ways, I find that trying to fit it into a neat package just does not work. The overarching goals or intent is helpful as a guide, but cannot really answer the question of what the particular point is or how to deal in the day to day. I worry constantly that I am not providing enough consistency, accountability or consequence in the days or weeks that get clogged up with work or other life demands, and then feel as if I am constantly trying to reinvent what we do to make it have a point and fit within a construct of what this should be. It can be paralyzing and lead to a whole bunch of WTF are we doing,
I struggle most with figuring out what I really want and not constantly being on top of this--which is maybe something that happens after time, but in its infancy, a FLR needs more parameters around it. We tend to get into a good rhythm, with my husband taking over the household running aspects, somewhat regular discipline and accountability and me leading rather than asking. But that decently well-run machine has flaws and I do not always say what I want or set the clearest of expectations. It is my own fault and a plan I need to recommit to in order to keep him feeling safe in his submission.
I
really do need to address the day to day and not just kind of rely on the
general construct to get us through.
“My wife was the one who was very strict out of the gate and she has continued to be strict. I get spanked somewhat less often only because I am better behaved. I would never try to force my wife to enforce a zero tolerance policy but she is that way on her own. It took some adjustment initially and it certainly changed our relationship dynamic to something more FLR and I see her differently than I used to. I have a new/different respect for her and see her as the authority in the relationship. She says she still sees me the same but she does treat me differently in her role. I think because of the effectiveness of the dynamic in the beginning spanking to her is like a hammer and every issue is a nail. It is certainly her go to. Over time its only become more that way and she always finds new behaviors or things to add to what she will spank for. she used to try and talk or scold about things up front then spank after but she shifted to spanking with scolding up front then talking after because she likes that the spanking takes care of any potential ego or defensiveness that might become argumentative. being argumentative in other context is also a spank-able offense.”
Lack of consistency and the unfulfilled desire for more strictness top the list of changes we would like to see our wives implement. If you fall into that camp, what do you attribute the lack of consistency or failure to become as strict as you’d like to?
Are Norton and Mike W. right that it’s mostly about the distractions of “real life”?
Or, is it, as ZM believes, more about concerns that taking control will be seen as “bitchy” or “too much”?
As ZM alludes to, one of the big ironies in real world DD and FLR relationships is that wives do have concerns about how taking command and being more strict would really be perceived, yet many of us are insistent that we really do want them to be far more strict with us.
Yet, even when the husband and wife agree that increasing strictness would be a good thing, it often doesn’t happen. I think the first two sentences from Rhiannon’s blog post, and the Stephen Covey quote at the top, identify the heart of the problem, namely that there is a big gap between having a goal and having a plan.
For those who have succeeded in moving toward a more strict, controlling DD and/or FLR dynamic, how did that come about? Was the wife just naturally dominant from the beginning, or was there a learning or “fake it ‘til you make it” process involved? Are there “concrete steps” of the sort Rhiannon wants that you implemented and would recommend? New commenter W. referenced new structures and rules his wife is implementing. Hopefully he and others will chime in with descriptions of what they and their wives have done to get to the desired level of strictness and control.
Have a great week.
“It's very difficult to make a 100% turnaround. It's tough when you actually do exhibit patterns of bad behavior. You need to have a very strong support system of people who are willing to keep you in your place if you're going to overcome these things.” - Daniel Cormier
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the Disciplinary Wives who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
I hope you all had a great week. Mine was uneventful, yet I felt atypically good. Like maybe I’m finally turning the corner on the string of bad luck and bad health trends that started around Thanksgiving of last year. It’s been a tough few months, but maybe I’m moving past it.
It isn’t an entirely accidental change of trajectory. For the last couple of weeks, I’ve been doing a better job of taking care of myself in terms of diet, exercise, meditation, etc. It’s amazing how treating yourself just slightly better can make a big difference in your mood and feelings of wellbeing. Yet, most of the time it takes a conscious choice to get out of our self-created ruts, and maybe some external motivation. More on that below.
Thanks to those of you who gave advice and recounted personal experience with caning. As I said, I don’t really like doing posts about particular instruments, I decided to be a little self-indulgent, given that we are experimenting with the cane now but have very little experience with it.
One interesting takeaway from
the discussion is that the cane may be the only instrument in all of DD world
that seems to require a particular degree of force and accuracy that can only
be generated through a combination of practice and confidence. Anyway, I know it may have been a topic with limited
audience appeal, so thanks for bearing with me.
A couple of weeks ago, on the topic of fantasies, TB offered this:
I often fantasise that she is ‘always on’ DD wise so that there is zero doubt for either of us on the ‘if …. Then’ construct. In other words, zero tolerance for any boundary crossing. And that every session was ‘merciless’ - hard, relentless and painful. (I’ve given up trying to work out why I want this). I am convinced that my behaviour would quickly improve and that we would both be happier/even more content.
I have tried to articulate this to her, and she says she gets it and is supportive, but we quickly revert to our ‘normal’ DD where I ‘get away’ with behaviours and then there is a reckoning when she’s finally had enough.
Seems like a simple change to me but as yet I have failed to get this fantasy realised…. TB
I share TB’s fantasy of a much more strictly enforced set of boundaries. Though, it's more than a fantasy. It's a genuine hope that Anne takes things in that direction at some point.
I’ve often said I want more consistency, but I think what TB is suggesting goes beyond mere consistency. Instead, it’s about having a fairly rigorous set of rules or imposed standards, and then a very strict approach to enforcing them. In other words, it’s about tight boundaries and “zero tolerance” when it comes to enforcement.
The last time I did a topic on “zero tolerance” was about four years ago. Although the discussion was generally good, there seemed to be a lot of talking past each other. The source of the problem seemed to be that some thought I was defining “zero tolerance” as getting spanked or otherwise punished for every little thing.
That’s not what I’m talking about. Rather, I’m talking about getting spanked for everything that she sees as a significant problem or irritant and much more strictness and rigor in making sure those things actually do get punished.
It’s about not tolerating excuses or efforts to delay or avoid a spanking that has been earned.
And, while it is about consistency to some extent, it’s also about setting a generally higher bar for what both she and I expect of me.
So, in that sense while it is not about getting spanked for every little thing, it probably is about getting spanked for a greater number of things than I do now. But, in part that is because, if I’m honest, there are a lot of things I do that irritate or anger her, or that either she sees as a problem or we both do, yet I get away with doing those things over and over again. Sometimes it's because I offer excuses or a delay becomes it not happening at all. But, sometimes she has said she is going to be strict about something but doesn't follow through.
In the twenty years we’ve been doing DD, we’ve never really had a “zero tolerance” approach, whether with respect to a particular issue or the relationship as a whole.
The thing that I seem to do most often that angers her the most is leaving the house and failing to lock the doors when I leave, or sometimes accidentally leaving the garage door open either when I leave or when I go into the house. Because it is something that pisses her off, and does so fairly regularly, I often think she will finally get fed up and impose a “zero tolerance” approach for that one issue, it never really happens. She tolerates way too many excuses, or too often lets me by without any excuse, probably because there was a fairly long time between incidents.
Interestingly, while I often bemoan my lack of willpower, I have successfully imposed a few “zero tolerance” rules on myself. Tobacco use is probably the best example. In high school and college, I was a regular tobacco user, and nicotine has been my one and only true physical addiction. I tried to quit several times, and a few times I succeeded for a few weeks. But, I always started again. When I finally quit for good, I went cold turkey, And, in thirty years I’ve never had another cigarette. I just can’t let myself do it, because I know that if I were to have one cigarette on a special occasion, a week later I would be having “just one” a day, then one would become three, then three would become a pack-a-day habit.
I conquered my nicotine addiction before we were into DD, but I suspect that one or more of my aborted attempts at ending that addiction might have been successful had I had a strict Disciplinary Wife giving me some additional motivation. However, the habit and the physical addiction were so strong, it probably would have taken a “zero tolerance” approach.
Although I suspect ending deeply rooted habits and addictions might require something like a “zero tolerance” approach, I’m similar to TB in wanting “smaller” things also to be subject to very strict discipline because small things can be big stressors in a relationship or can have a big cumulative impact on your quality of life.
A good example for me is carelessness. Everyone is careless from time to time, but part of my identity has always revolved around risk taking and/or being cavalier about consequences. And, I’m not very detail oriented. I know I would be happier if I avoided the multiple times a year that I do something stupid from sheer lack of attention. And, our bank account would be better for it.
One challenge with a “zero tolerance” approach to things like carelessness, however, is it often happens when Anne isn’t there. Thus, having her address them would be dependent on me self-reporting, and my track record on that is mixed at best.
Most of my discussion about this so far has been about whether a “zero tolerance” approach would be efficacious for changing behavior for the better. That was also the focus when I last did this topic back in 2021.
With four years of increasing self-awareness, however, I realize that my attraction to zero tolerance is about more than changing my behavior and the benefits I think that would bring. Rather, I fantasize about it/hope for it, because part of me wants the intense feelings that I think would go along with it. In short, part of me is morbidly attracted to being under my wife’s stern hand to a much greater extent than I am now.
I’m not under any illusion that a “zero tolerance” approach would be anything but incredibly challenging, both emotionally and in terms of perhaps having a perpetually sort ass for whatever time it too for my behavior to improve to her satisfaction. I suspect that I would be resentful or angry much of the time it was happening, though that anger might be directed at myself. I can't find it now, but in the last year or so a commenter here talked about a period in which his wife became super strict in holding him accountable on a couple of behavioral issues, to the point that he was getting spanked almost daily. I recall him describing how hard it was, and that a big part of the emotional challenge was feeling like a screw-up who couldn’t get his act together to avoid being spanked so often.
I’m sure I would feel that way for a while if my wife ever did become super strict and “zero tolerance” in her approach. Yet, part of me clearly is attracted to the prospect of being humbled in that way and to being subject to that level of rigorous control. And, while I suspect it would be super challenging as it was happening, it also likely would be incredibly attractive and stimulating after the fact.
Have you ever been subject to a “zero tolerance” approach in your DD relationship? If so, was it about a particular issue, or was it a broader approaching dealing with a wider range of behavior. How did it make you feel? How did it make her feel? If you haven’t experienced that sort of super strict approach, do you want to?
For the wives, is a “zero tolerance” approach appealing? Or, does it seem burdensome? Is it easier to take an approach of punishing every time something happens, or do you place more value on having the discretion to determine whether to let something slide? If you are attracted to “zero tolerance” but haven’t implemented it, why not?
Have a great week.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the Disciplinary Wives who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
Another housekeeping point before we get started: We seem to be getting an influx of anonymous comments. Which is fine, but please comply with the instructions at the bottom of the comment section, which include using a name or initials when commenting. It helps us all keep track of who we are replying to and also helps establish a stronger sense of community among group members.
I hope you all had a great week. Mine was pretty busy dealing with some medical stuff (nothing serious) and some hobby stuff. The medical stuff included some routine but yucky medical tests (all good), plus an injection for my ongoing knee problems. The shoulder I wrecked last summer is also relatively pain-free right now thanks to another injection. And, I finally seem to have gotten past a cycle of infections, including the flu and a couple of sinus infections. So, for the first time in almost four months, I’m feeling good and am mostly pain-free. Hopefully, it’s the beginning of a new, better trajectory and a good set up for an active spring.
I reported last week on the vacation Anne and I took a couple of weeks ago, which included a doctor’s housecall to our hotel. As I recounted, Anne ended up getting a shot in the butt. The prospect that I might get the same created a potentially embarrassing situation, as Anne had given me a hairbrush spanking a couple of days before. As it turned out, there was no cause for alarm, as the doctor decided I didn’t need a shot. Further, because the spanking had been with a hairbrush, I knew that it was unlikely that I actually had any significant marking or shading.
What I didn’t report was that I was worried that there might still be some residual marking from some experimentation we did the week before we left, with a heavy, dense, synthetic cane.
As I’ve related a few times, we tried caning a handful of times early on in our DD relationship, but it didn’t seem to work for us. Anne found it awkward, and it just didn’t really hurt very much.
However, the same thing could be said for our earliest DD experimentation, which centered on the OTK position with a hairbrush. It just didn’t seem effective, so we moved on to other things. A couple of years ago, however, we tried it again. Although the hairbrush was still only moderately impactful (though it hurt way more than when we tried several years before), Anne quickly became able to deliver a mean swing with the bath brush in the OTK position. It has been our go-to position ever since.
The bath brush hurts like hell, even OTK. But, the one thing that combination doesn’t deliver is marks that last. In recent years, I just don’t bruise or mark very much. I do think I am getting bruised from a hard bath brushing, but it’s at a deeper level, resulting in some gray shading that may last several days, plus a deep, achy reminder that the bath brush is a very capable instrument.
I don’t know exactly why, but I miss the prominent marking/bruising I experienced in the first few years of our DD relationship. A bruised butt and deep residual soreness served as a multi-day reminder of our new hierarchy and my humbled place in it. Welts would be a perfectly acceptable substitute for bruising.
Anne also seemed to get some perverse pleasure from a visual representation of a job well done. Conversely, there have been a few times in recent years that she’s expressed disappointment when, a day after a hard spanking, there wasn’t much visual evidence that she had, in fact, spanked me hard.
Hence, I started thinking that
we should try the cane again. My renewed
interest was also stimulated from some of your comments from several weeks ago.
I didn’t do a great job of documenting who contributed them, but it was a mix
of comments from ZM and Merk Smith. Here are some snippets:
ZM: The cane is able to cause real fear, at least if your wife knows how to use it properly. Why is that different than other tools? Especially since even Merk said "despite although different it is not necessarily more painful than other well applied instruments." The difference is that all other spanking tools - except maybe in very rare circumstances like being spanked by a tennis champion - rely on repetition to cause their maximum pain. Also Merk: "One good cane stroke on a bare bottom will leave a welt that will be lumpy and sore to touch or in the shower for a couple of days." What other tool can do that?
The reason that matters is because if your wife knows how to cane properly, it sort of becomes a binary affair. Even one stroke is going to cause pain that will last for days, and from the moment you hear the first whistle of the cane, there is no turning back on that. With other spanking implements, she can always decide to go easy on you and end early, but once she decides to use the cane, days of pain are ensured, and the only question is "how many stripes?"
One thing that I just realized about the cane is that it can be the perfect tool to solve one of the dilemmas I have often pondered. The dilemma is that not every misdeed is worthy of a full-fledged, long, hard spanking, yet at the same time, for a spanking to even be a real punishment, it has to be sufficiently hard and long to not only be almost unbearably painful at the time but also leave at least some lasting reminder of the spanking.
The cane can solve this problem completely. Even a single well applied cane stroke with leave a burning line of fire across your bottom, and the effects will be felt for days. But at the same time, more cane strokes ramp up the whole effect dramatically. So even a single cane stroke can be used as an effective punishment for something minor and will be felt enough to be remembered for days, yet many cane strokes will result in something that will be much more unpleasant both at the time it is administered and also in the days that follow. I love paddles, but I don't think they can be used as effectively in this manner; it may be possible to hit hard enough that one paddle stroke would be felt for days, but then it would also seem like a bigger punishment since so much surface area of your bottom is hurting. At least for my wife and the way she uses the paddle, the punishment comes not so much from individual blows, but rather from the cumulative effect.
Merk Smith: Definitely ZM, one good cane stroke on a bare bottom will leave a welt that will be lumpy and sore to touch or in the shower for a couple of days. Keep adding strokes and you now have marks that will remain for more than a week, and more than six strokes will inevitably cross previous strokes... at this point you have deep bruising that will be felt every time you sit or move for more than a week.
In addition to the effect on the recipient, Donn had talked a bit about the cane’s potential effect on the wife using it:
"In my experience, a woman has never, ever really known her DD power and authority until she starts using a cane -- it's transformative. Likewise, a man never fully understands a woman's power and authority until he is at the opposite end of that cane."
Donn’s observation echoes some of Aunt Kay’s comments in her pamphlet on caning techniques. She seems to suggest that, while both are iconic, the cane has a “vibe” that is almost the exact opposite of the hairbrush used OTK. The latter is almost inherently maternal and erotic. Yet, there are times when that is not what is needed. As she put it:
Many who participate in the DWC Lifestyle actually enjoy elements of spanking and related activities. It becomes a something like a special and intimate secret between them and special trusted friends. Some of us gather occasionally for spanking events/play parties and so on. Even when corporal
punishment is being meted out with real sternness, there is still the presence of a certain loving intimacy.
Yet there will always be occasions when punishment simply means punishment; demanding a real distance between the DWC wife - as a stern disciplinarian - and husband - as offender, involving a maximum of gravity and a minimum of levity. These are the occasions when it must be resolutely demonstrated who is the boss in the situation and who must obey. At times like this nothing can best the cane as a representation of detached authority whose power is contained in its very calmness.
This is where the cane can become the factor that really makes a difference. Topping from the bottom must be eliminated before a proper disciplinary relationship can flourish, and the cane is the supreme instrument for eliminating it. Its chilling ferocity will rid a husband of any illusion that he can retain the master key to his disciplinary relationship, and that he can duck out when it doesn’t suit him.
A single session with the cane - administered with cool assurance will eliminate once and for all any lingering idea in a man’s head that he can have his cake and eat it. He will know, standing in the corner struggling to come to terms with his spinning head and his smoldering derrière - that his fantasy world is a thing of the past. He will realize the wisdom behind the words “watch out what you wish for, you might just get it”. The genuine caning session teaches him that his wife’s disciplinary options are nothing to be trivialized. What she decides goes, and he has no say in the matter.
I gave Anne a copy of the pamphlet a few weeks ago and asked her to consider trying it again. I also set up a chair, with a pillow roped to its back, for her to practice on.
She finally gave it a try shortly before we went on vacation. It came at the end of a full OTK session with the hairbrush and bath brush. She only did about 8 strokes. The first couple were very timid. I actually had to encourage her to swing harder. The last few were hard and did hurt. Though she still lacked confidence in her swing, I did get a glimmer of the kind of concentrated pain the cane probably would deliver once she does have that confidence.
Even with the less than full-force swing, there was significant bruising. But, it was in kind of an odd place. I expected I might get some from the tip wrapping around to the hip or otherwise hitting in a usually unspanked area. Instead, I got welts where you would expect them but also an area of angry bruising right between the cheeks, near the top. How it would cause bruising there, I have no idea.
I had to give Anne a lot of reassurance about that marking and that it was okay. I’m not entirely sure why, because in the early days of DD she left some very significant bruising with wooden paddles, and it never seemed to bother her. Maybe it was just that it’s been so many years since that happened, coupled with her lack of comfort with this new tool.
Anne had also gotten it into her head that the cane should be restricted to six, evenly-spaced strokes. I think she must have skipped over this from Aunt Kay’s pamphlet:
If you are giving 6 strokes, your fifth will have landed at the tops of his thighs, and he will now have six evenly spaced welts to sit on for the next few days. If you are giving 12, then they will be closer together, but still from the middle of his bottom to the tops of his thighs. And likewise for 18 or 24. The number of strokes is for you to decide. I give 6 strokes when 6 minor offences have been committed, and I find that this keeps him very attentive to good behaviour generally, and serves as a reminder of what he'll get if he commits a more serious offence and receives 12, 18 or 24 strokes.
I usually don’t focus posts on a single instrument, and I find most of the instrument-focused topics kind of dry. But, some of the readers do seem to have a thing for canes, and given that we are just starting to experiment with them again, I’m really interested in getting input from those of you who are experienced with them. A few questions to kick things off:
Is the cane a part of your spouse’s disciplinary repertoire? If not, do you want it to be?
Do you think the cane is widely used in the US, or is it primarily an English thing? Is that because it was widely used in British schools? For those who are interested in it or use it, does its use in the traditional school setting add to the mystique?
If you use the cane, what type? Do you use traditional rattan, a synthetic material like Delrin, or both?
What thickness and length do you use?
When you use it, is it usually the only tool used during that session, or does she use it in conjunction with other instruments? If the latter, is there a particular order that seems most effective?
Do you find that the cane really is more powerful and intimidating than other instruments? Do you fear it above other instruments?
Do you experience more marking/bruising with the cane than with other instruments? Does the pain last longer?
How many strokes are usually given?
Does the fact that the strokes are delivered more silently than with other instruments play a role in your choice to use or not use it?
Thanks for your input on this. I hope it isn’t a bore for those who don’t use this particular implement. I'll close with this drawing by RedRump. While it's not F/m, I think it's one of his sexiest works.
