Saturday, September 14, 2019

Club Meeting 312 - Safewords


“Don’t let your mouth get you into something your ass can’t handle.” – Basketball Diaries

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Interesting week.  Where to begin?  Maybe with something that has been in the back of my mind for the last few weeks, namely the sharp uptick in comments that read more like Femdom spanking porn fantasies than real-life domestic discipline stories. This seems to happen whenever we get an influx of new readers, many of whom apparently skipped the note on the masthead that says this is a place to “share their thoughts regarding Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. No offense to our friends in the Femdom, BDSM and Master-slave communities, but that's not really what this blog is about.”  I probably need to change that to read “thoughts regarding real Domestic Discipine and Female Led Relationships.” I’m never sure what to do about these stories that are just a little too out there to be true.  Like, the sudden prevalence of claims to have been spanked in a public “family bathroom.”  Could it have happened? Sure.  Do, I think it did for all the men who claim they have been subject to it?  Nope.  Or, do I believe for a second the claim from a commenter a couple of weeks ago that the new prevalence of family bathrooms has resulted in some recognized uptick in public DD spankings? Not for a second.  On the other hand, there are stories that I absolutely believe even if they fall into common spanking fantasy genres like mother-in-law spankings and being spanked in public.  Some people’s DD relationships are obviously more open, out or adventurous than others.  Still, while I may not delete comments I strongly suspect are fantasy, I’m not going to feel obligated to respond to them either as I try to do with other comments.  And, if you are one of the offenders, please take it somewhere else.


Though, speaking of being “out” or “open,” I had a somewhat disturbing event happen this week that involved the prospect of being involuntarily “outed.”  I won’t go into details because they might be too self-revelatory, but suffice it to say it involved a possible computer hack that I was concerned might have exposed some of the stuff I keep around, like my collection of spanking porn and that someone might expose my Domestic Discipline interest and activities.  I went to a bit of a panic that turned out to be unmerited, but it did make me mentally and emotionally confront what I would do it something like that did become public.  What would I do?  How would I handle the situation?  Would it seem life-destroying, or oddly freeing?  Honestly, I think if it involved being outed to colleagues or in a work-related context, I’d just lie and claim the leaker had faked whatever they disclosed in some perverse plan to damage me.  Honestly, in this era of “deep fake” photographs and a President who gets away with lying about paying off porn stars to cover up extramarital affairs and suffers not the slightest consequence even when confronted with the payment checks, lying in the face of incontrovertible evidence seems like a plausible strategy.  Or, I could just own it.  Just say, “Yeah, I like my wife being in charge and taking me to task with her paddle and strap.  What the fuck do you care?”  But, what my little panic incident revealed is that while that might be an option in the future, right now I do not want to deal with the possible consequences.  I do think there could be pretty significant professional consequences, at least for the next few years until retirement.  Though, it did occur to me that such “outing” could be the signal from the universe I’ve been looking for about when it actually is time to get on that glide path into retirement or a career change.  My real trepidation though is around extended family finding out.  I think most of my friends would be fine with it, after a bit of shock.  Our kids would probably roll with it, assuming they don’t know or suspect it already.  But, I really wrestle with the mortification I’d experience over parents and older relatives knowing.  We talked about humiliation a couple of weeks ago, and this week’s event demonstrated to me that while part of me is attracted to being more “out” and to being humbled in certain contexts, there are still hard limits and the timing is not right.

Well, enough of that.  On to this week’s topic. It’s one we’ve done before, but not for at least a couple of years.  That topic is “safewords.”  Here is how an urban dictionary entry describes it: “In BDSM, begging to stop increases pleasure and reality. A safeword is used to actually mean "stop", since screams for stopping aren't sincere. The safeword is usually a normal word, like "pink", "banana", or "door" and is determined before starting play.”


 While safewords may seem like a pretty straightforward topic, it is one that has a lot of layers, including some that always cause controversy among the group.  “Consent,” "consensual non-consent," and true non-consent have been on my mind a lot lately.  I’ve always known that part of what initially attracted me to DD was the prospect of losing control to someone or, more accurately, having all control taken away from me.  When I discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, the stories that appealed to me the most were those in which the corporal punishment regiment was imposed by the wife, as opposed to initiated at the husband’s request. Similarly, stories where the spanking goes on way past the husband’s self-perceived limits were and are morbidly attractive. Being spanked when I really, truly do not want to be has always been part of the perverse appeal Domestic Discipline has for me.  Same with being taken way past the point of “comfort,” to where it really feels like a harsh punishment for bad behavior.


Safewords are not part of our relationship, and to me they seem inconsistent with my need for disciplinary spankings to be “real.”  With a safeword, I would remain in control, and that is the exact opposite of what I want.  Given that for us spanking is about things like discipline, punishment and payback, giving me the ability to shorten the duration of a spanking or to cause her to back off on the intensity by simply uttering an agreed-upon phrase seems inconsistent with that.  For us, the whole point of DD is putting my butt's fate in her hands, letting her decide when enough is enough, and making sure that some punishments are way more than I want to repeat.  And, yes, while I theoretically could struggle and get up if the spanking was just too much, I never have and, if I did, I would very much want her to solve that in some concrete way like using restraints to hold me in place.  Thus, for us, a safeword is something that seems to make perfect sense in the BDSM and “scening,” context, but is more problematic in the context of our relationship, at least to the extent it can be used to call an end to a spanking just because it is hurting too much, i.e. where there is no medical issue, injury, etc. that demands a stop or some kind of adjustment.

 
Now, that last point is important. I do think there has to be a way to pause or stop a spanking if something is really wrong, like where the recipient is feeling something that just isn’t within the norm of a punishment spanking and indicates a prospect of real injury.  But, we have been married for a quarter century and doing Domestic Discipline for over a decade, so if I felt something was really wrong, I’d just say so.  There is no doubt in my mind that she would pause and, if something was wrong, stop the spanking.  And, I also don’t tend to verbalize a lot during spankings, at least not with words.  I do plenty of grunting, groaning and yelping, but I don’t do things like begging her to stop, which obviously could cause confusion about whether he is just voicing the reality of a hard spanking or, rather, really in distress in a “bad” way. 

 
What do you think?  Yes or no on safe words?  Are there some situations (medical emergency, real injury, etc.) where it is appropriate but others (the spanking just hurts a lot) where it is just trying to avoid the punishment itself and should not be allowed?  If you do use one, care to share what it is?

Have a great week.

Sunday, September 8, 2019

Club Meeting 311 - Corner Time

“If pain must come, may it come quickly. If [s]he has to make a choice, may [s]he make it now.”  - Paulo Coelho

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

I hope you had a great week.  I came into the week exhausted and am now even more so.  Business travel is just draining.  Unfortunately, none of that time in airports and on airplanes yielded inspiration for new blog topics.  So, I throw in the towel and will once again let someone else do my thinking for me.  A couple of weeks ago “a husband who knows” suggested “corner time” as a topic and suggested some sub-topics.  So, let’s do that one.

Do you use corner time as part of your Domestic Discipline routine?  If so, to what purpose?  Is it always done in conjunction with a spanking, or do you ever use it as a stand-alone (no pun intended) form of punishment?  Do you use it to increase the sense of anticipation and dread of the ordeal about to come?


Or, is it an interlude between sessions?


Or, does it typically come after the spanking?  Does she use it as an opportunity to scold or lecture? 
 
How long do your typically leave him in the corner, and what do you do while you keep him waiting? (This particular piece of artwork comes from our friend KD Pierre.)

 
Has she ever taken a phone call while you were standing naked in the corner? If so, how did that make you feel?

If corner time is not part of your domestic discipline routine, is it something you’d like to explore? Why?  What is the appeal, or what is it that you hope it would achieve?

 
For the wives, does corner time serve any special purpose for you?  What is it you hope that it achieves?  Does making him spend time in the corner enforce your feelings of empowerment or dominance?

You can tell this topic isn’t one that captures my interest, as demonstrated by the fact that the last time I devoted a topic to it was back in 2014.  At that time, I noted that we didn’t use corner time.  That changed a little in the last year, partly in response to a comment from one of our Disciplinary Wives.  She noted that she always tries to ensure that each offense gets its own separate spanking session.  Typically, she would break the spanking event into multiple shorter sessions, with corner time in between.  That approach struck me as potentially helpful in making sure that a husband is always better off behaving than not behaving, because I’d be lying if I said there haven’t been times when I knew I already had a spanking coming, so why worry about behaving better if I was going to be spanked regardless?  So, we experimented with a new system in which each offense earned a minimum of five minutes of spanking time (as measured with an hour glass), with five to ten minutes of corner time between each session.  We haven’t really stuck with it, but I do think the approach has merit and Anne told me she does like it.

For me, the positives of corner time are tied to that particular routine and are about ensuring that each offense gets addressed separately and making it less likely that numbness steps in and makes a long spanking easier to take after a while.  But, for me corner time doesn’t really work as an independent form of punishment or as an anticipation builder.  That’s a little surprising, because I tend to be very impatient by nature.  But, I have also been meditating for so many years, that I now find that standing in a corner for very long results in me slipping into more of a meditative state in which, instead of focusing on the upcoming spanking or reflecting on what I could have done to avoid the one I just got, I tend to think about  . . . nothing. 

So, please share the details of your use of corner time, if any.  And, have a great week.

Sunday, September 1, 2019

Club Meeting 310 - Humbling & Humiliation


Honesty is grounded in humility and indeed in humiliation, and in admitting exactly where we are powerless. - David Whyte

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship. 

I hope you had a great week.  Mine was exhausting.  Man, do I ever need this long weekend.  I was traveling all week, jumping from time zone to time zone, all of it work related and much of it involving being "on" for hours among people I don't know well.  For an introvert like me, that's like the drain on a car battery when the lights are left on all night with the radio blaring. Though, I also had moments of self-control, like bowing out of one social engagement that felt avoidable, allowing me to just hang out in the hotel by myself, do some reading, and get some sleep.  I also got a bit of recovery time last night, again skipping another opportunity for socializing and, in the process, getting some extra sleep.  Little victories.  (The week of non-stop travel also kept me from responding to some of last week's comments.  I'll try to catch up on that over the weekend.

Unfortunately, I can't say that being better-behaved than usual and getting some extra sleep last night left me brimming with creative and novel blog topics.  I saw the suggestion to do corner time, but we've done it before and, for whatever reason, I just wasn't feeling it on that one this week.  I will do it, just not this week.  Sometimes, even if I'm not particularly inspired by my own ideas, I'm not resonating to a particular suggested topic for this week.   

Anyway . . . I had been thinking about doing a topic on "humiliation," based on some recent comments by both ZM and Danielle.  ZM has said that humiliation fantasies are a thing for him, and Danielle has recounted that Wayne too gets off on being humiliated in various ways.  I myself tend not to use the term "humiliation."  It has a harsh tone to me.  I do think a lot about "humbling," and it's an express goal of our Domestic Discipline and, increasingly, our FLR.  It's about making the power dynamic "real," as in something I internalize and accept at a very fundamental level.


I'm not sure whether I mean the same thing by "humbling" that others mean by "humiliation."  The purpose "humbling" serves for me is more conceptual than visceral.  I know that I get myself into trouble due to arrogance, temper, and lack of respect for authority.  Given the number of times those things have created problems for me, some "humbling" seems in order as a tool to help me exercise a little more self-control and get a handle on some negative emotional reactions.  I suspect when others t alk about wanting to be "humiliated," the drive they are referring to is more about sex than about performance improvement or accountability, though I'm sure you will all tell me if I'm wrong about that.  I'm also not sure whether "embarrassment," is just a milder form of humiliation, or something categorically different.

For me, the difference between humbling, on the one hand, and humiliation/embarrassment on the other, is the humbling I am looking for is basically a tool for increased accountability, a deterrent to bad behavior, and hopefully a state of mind that helps mitigate some of my problems with temper and lack of respect for authority.  But, conversely, as ZM recently alluded to, embarrassment and self-consciousness about our behavior can inhibit our willingness to own up to that behavior:

"I can really relate to what Al said; the reason I might not accurately self-report is not so much because I don’t want punishment (also true), but more so because I hate to admit my failings. When I screw up, I am disappointed in myself, and my normally giant ego and excessive sense of self-worth is already suffering, and the last thing I want it to see disappointment on her face as well. And then of course if she does punish me, the physical pain is one thing, but the pain to my ego is even greater, though needed and beneficial."


Embarrassment and humiliation are paradoxical in the same way our disciplinary drives are paradoxes to so many of us.  We want it, until we get it.  And, as with spanking, for some the emotional power of embarrassment or humiliation seems to come from it being imposed contrary to our own wishes in that moment.  We don't like embarrassment, yet the prospect of it or its stronger cousin "humiliation," seems to fuel many of our DD and FLR fantasies.  In fact, isn't it possible that the prospect of embarrassment is what underlies so many other things we find morbidly compelling about DD and have talked about here: crying, witnesses, public displays of her authority, etc.? 

For me, humbling is a conscious goal, and it can take subtle forms.  There is, for example,  something powerfully humbling about waiting for a spanking I know is coming. I instantly start behaving better, and I feel better.  Just by ordering the spanking she has put me in place.  Taken me down a peg.  And, that humbling feels good.  Being that kinder, more considerate person all the time should be easy, but it's not.  Like many men who are attracted to DD, there is a lot of testosterone coursing through these veins.  It can help me take the kind of risks that build a successful career, but it can also lead to a lot of impetuous and impulsive decisions that come back to haunt me. It can help me take on jerks and posers, but it also leads me to ignore or confront legitimate authority.  

Humbling me also has major benefits for my wife.  She has said that when it comes to the spanking process, it is not delivering the spanking that she likes but, rather, ordering me to take off all my clothes and get in position and watching me comply.  She knows such compliance is hard for my ego to take.  Similarly, one reason that she likes "service submission" is she knows that I hate it and that my ego rebels every time she gives me an order.  She's been the victim of my ego for a long time, and putting that ego in its place is a form of "payback" just as giving a hard spanking can be a form of payback.
  

But, we haven't gone much beyond that, and for most of our DD relationship had you asked me whether I have any desire for real humiliation or embarrassment, I would have said no.  Now?  I'm not as sure.  An exchange I had with Danielle about the story that accompanied the photo I posted a few weeks ago of a guy with a cowboy hat draped over a hay bale with his naked ass displaying stripes from a recent caning or whipping got me thinking about this more.  As I recounted, the story involved a man and woman who were in some kind of kinky relationship with a dominant male.  The wife had asked the other man to take care of some of her husband's behavioral problems.  He showed up unannounced at a dinner party they were having with another couple, took the embarrassed husband to a barn on the couple’s property, then spanked him to tears with a belt before returning him to the party.  

Then there was the dream I reported about being taken out of a work/family event by to be spanked by our office manager (a male), with everyone knowing that was what was going to happen and some of the people present--including my wife and my dad--telling me to stop trying to argue my way out of it and, instead, go take my medicine.  

And, there was the time at Christmas when I made some smart ass remark when directed to help with something, and my wife quipped that I could do it or she could spank me.  While, I'm not sure anyone overheard, I'm not sure that they didn't. The fact that I still think about it two years later says a lot about the power of being embarrassed by being publicly "outed" to family and friends.  And, the prospect of it being overheard is embarrassing but that makes it exciting.  


Then there is my fascination with crying, which drove a huge amount of my initial obsession after discovering DD.  I have always thought my crying fetish is very much about the embarrassment and vulnerability associated with being spanked to real tears.  And, I absolutely believe that one of the primary reasons I have not let go and sobbed during a spanking is, in fact, because the embarrassment of doing that holds me back every time I get close. 


We also talked about the embarrassment of someone knowing about a particular spanking in the moment or that one is coming.  Others knowing about a spanking definitely does something for me, and it has something to do with the fact that it is inherently embarrassing and humbling.  While I've never thought I was into humiliation, beyond the practical benefits of humbling, I can't deny that there seems to be a pattern of fictional humiliation scenes getting my attention or having free rein in my dreams, including particularly M/m spanking scenarios, being spanked in public, and others being told about our DD relationship.    

How about you?  Does your partner do things that are deliberately designed to humble or embarrass you?  If so, give us some examples.  If not, do you want her to? I'm not talking about the embarrassment that is inherent in DD and in any power exchange to some extent but, rather, things above and beyond or separate from the spanking itself that are consciously designed to embarrass, humble or humiliate.  For the wives, do you enjoying humbling, embarrassing or humiliating your husband?  If so, why?

Saturday, August 31, 2019

Delayed Post

Hi all.  For those of you in the U.S., I hope your long Labor Day weekend is off to a good start. I do plan to post over the weekend, but I'm off taking care of some other things this morning.  I plan to post later today, or tomorrow morning.

Saturday, August 24, 2019

Club Meeting 309 - Confessing & Snitching


Between lovers a little confession is a dangerous thing. - Helen Rowland

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship. 

I hope you had a great week.  Mine was up and down. We are slow at work again, but I also had a lot of work-related travel and socializing.  Bad combination.  I don’t do well when I’m not busy with concrete tasks and projects.  The week was also book-ended by work related socializing that left me depleted energetically.  But, at least there is the weekend . . .

We had a good discussion last week about our experiences with parental discipline.  Over the years of blogging and polling about “origins” and how we come to this lifestyle, the surprising pattern is the lack of any common pattern.  Some experienced lots of spankings as kids.  Some none at all.  Some of us grew up with consistent discipline and enforced boundaries. Some were left to basically raise ourselves.  After years of discussion this, I really don’t see any pattern at all, and I’m at a loss to explain what triggered my own attraction to being disciplined and to having power taken away from me.  I have this sneaky suspicion that if there is a common pattern, it has more to do with the parenting style of the fathers than mothers, though thanks to Freud we tend to see this stuff through an Oedipal lens.  

We also explored again the maternal aspects of discipline, with Danielle observing: “I guess my FLR is more maternal than many of the DD relationships people here have for a couple of reasons. First, my authority is not limited by some sort of agreement about “spanking infractions.” I decide when discipline is needed and what form it will take. Second, I don’t limit consequences to spanking, but add the kinds of consequences I used to discipline my sons when they were teens.”  I think that touches on some of my own needs for discipline with a maternal vibe.  ZM said he would like to explore the maternal issue in more depth, and I heartily agree but can’t quite figure out an appropriate topic formulation.  All thoughts and suggestions on that are welcome.

As for this week’s topic, I’m feeling kind of lazy, so I will once again take advantage of a topic suggestion from “A husband who knows.” He suggested:


“Possible topic: the Confession Challenge. Dan, above you reveal three work behaviors your disciplinarian does not know about. And you did so knowing that your wife reads your blog. Repeat that confession and challenge the rest of us to confess behaviors our disciplinarian does not know about for which we likely would be punished. Challenge Part 2: Challenge each of us to read our confession to our disciplinarian! Then report back here what happens!”

Tomy responded: “"Confessional Sessions" were the most popular of activities in Aunt Kay's Gathering events (group events). In those cases men submitted a written confession to Aunt Kay and she studied them and assigned them to one of the other wives who then took appropriate action. It was super-cool.”  Tomy, as an aside, I would love to hear more about this.  Your allusions to ways in which the DWC really was a live "club" always intrigue me.

The “confession” AHWK was referring to was this comment from me identifying behaviors at work that either hold me back or that I just feel like I should correct because it is the right thing to do:

(1) Temper and lack of patience with others, whether directed up or down. I try really, really hard not to "punch down," but it wasn't quite true when I said above that it "never" happens. It's rare, but it can happen, especially if I'm dealing with someone who is being kind of mindless rule follower and getting in the way of getting something done. But, if it someone a lot lower than me in the pecking order, losing my temper or being rude to someone in those circumstances is something I really wish someone would rat me out for.

(2) Failure to keep up on some required paperwork and reporting. There is one task that is fundamental to how we get paid, but that I just absolutely hate. I'm always behind and, while it doesn't impact the organization much, it means I spend a lot of evenings and weekends playing catch up. It would be great if someone told my wife, "BTW, he's a week behind again in turning in X report . . ."

(3) Getting snotty with bureaucracy from "on high." This is a variant of (1), but I really do have a problem dealing with entrenched foolishness and, while it's fine to bring it up, I tend to do it snarky, sarcastic ways.

As I told AHWK, my wife does know about these behaviors because I’ve talked to her about them before, but she doesn’t have any way to find out about specific instances of those behaviors unless I report it myself.  Which I often don’t.  Why not? Well, it’s not really about fear of punishment.  It’s more that I really am embarrassed that I engaged in the behavior, and I don’t want to tell her about it because I don’t want to look bad.  


It’s really that simple.  But, since the AHWK dropped the gauntlet, and since there is no mechanism in place for anyone at work to snitch on me, I will man up and confess to three specific examples of bad behavior, all of which are loosely work related:

(1) I did “punch down” a bit recently, expressing some dissatisfaction to someone in our IT department about a policy that has been driving me crazy.  I wasn’t mean exactly, but he doesn’t really have any power to change the thing that was making me mad, so it was more about me venting my spleen than about accomplishing anything. 

(2) Last week, I got frustrated for about the thousandth time with some communications coming from the “C-Suite” that I see as a distraction and an example of focusing on small things to the exclusion of more important issues.  I made that view very clear in an email that went to a dozen more people, some peers and some up the chain.  Again, it wasn’t that I was saying anything that was wrong, but saying it yet again in way that was a very direct challenge to the thinking and priorities of those at the top just didn’t really serve any purpose, so why do it.

(3) I had a fairly significant instance of losing my temper last week, when a fairly new colleague started criticizing some things the organization was doing, without having any real understanding of what he was talking about.  I took it for a while, then rebuked him pretty directly, in a large meeting, for mouthing off before he had sufficient background to really understand an issue.  I alluded to this incident in last week’s blog post.  There is not a question in my mind that he was out of line. But, the way I reacted is not how a leader should act.  And, ironically, I am sure that some of the leaders I directed the communication to in (2), above, feel like I was behaving exactly like the guy I went off on in my meeting.  


Also, since this topic originated with some comments relating to enlisting co-workers and others to “rat out” a DD husband for bad behavior at work, I would like to expand the topic a bit by asking have you ever gotten spanked for something because someone “told on you”?  Perhaps a work colleague let something slip at a party?  Maybe a friend referred to some shared adventure you hadn’t shared with your wife? For all the wives, do you have any kind of “intelligence network” in place that will tip you off to bad behavior?  Have you ever been shocked to find out through a third-party that your husband did something and failed to report it?  How did you deal with it? 

Content Note:  I'm adding this note, because several comments indicate an issue that is becoming a problem and that I want to nip in the bud.  I do not mind when regular commenters drift off into other territory sometimes after addressing a topic. But, the last couple of weeks have seen several people--mainly various iterations of "Anonymous" and a couple of new commenters--attempt to use this as a convenient place to strike up a discussion about their Femdom fantasies, BDSM scening, etc.  Enough.  The masthead at the top of the blog says what it is about -- and what it is not.  I'm going to just start deleting comments that don't have anything to do with the topic or that kind of pretend to for a sentence or two before launching off into whatever Femdom or BDSM fantasy the commenter feels like talking about at random.

Have a great week.

Saturday, August 17, 2019

Club Meeting 308 - Parental Discipline

“If soldiers are punished before they have grown attached to you, they will not prove submissive; and, unless submissive, then will be practically useless. If, when the soldiers have become attached to you, punishments are not enforced, they will still be useless.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships, mainly of the Female/male variety.  I hope you had a good week.

Mine was one in which everything at work seemed to go from bad to work, and some of it because of very undisciplined behavior.  And, for once, not just mine.  I had a new colleague pushing buttons in some major ways, and he finally pushed the wrong one and I went off.  I reported last year about an incident in which I went off on someone and Anne made me apologize to them, and how humbling that was.  This time the situation is different, in that last time I really did feel like I jumped to a conclusion that was wrong even if it was perfectly consistent with the kind of dick-ish behavior this person displayed on a regular basis. Even if it was humbling to do, I felt like my behavior really called for it precisely because my reaction to him was factually wrong.  This time, there really isn’t any doubt this guy was crossing lines and pushing buttons.  The only real issue is whether my reaction was consistent with what I expect from myself and, hence, whether some humbling is called for even if I wasn’t actually in the wrong this time.  I guess another way of putting it is you can react in a way that is perfectly consistent with reality and that the recipient 100% deserves, yet it still may not be consistent with the kind of behavior you want to embody.  I need to think about this more, because right now I’m still pretty pissed off at this guy and enjoying wallowing in my righteous indignation and feeling kind of good about taking him down a peg.  But, for now, on to other things.

In one of the final comments on last week’s topic, “A husband who knows” suggested the following:  “Possible topic: Compare the discipline you got from your parents with the discipline you get from your wife (or give to your husband). How are they alike and different? Which has been more effective? Which do you prefer?” This touches a bit on a post I did back in February about the maternal element in discipline, and while I generally try to avoid doing the same topic twice in one year, this one is broader and gives people more room to roam.  Also, I’ve honestly been wanting to explore the issues around maternal and parental discipline more, because I’ve been getting more comfortable with admitting to myself that, while many here seem to have come to adult discipline via an early and probably innate fascination with spanking, my own needs in this area seem more closely tied to discipline or lack thereof as a teenager that now compels me to want discipline with a particularly “parental” element.

But, before we get to that, a hopefully interesting aside.  In looking for quotes to put at the top of this post, I thought that a good place to start for quotes related to parental discipline might be to run a Google search for quotes related to the biblical injunction of “spare the rod and spoil the child.”  What I found was kind of fascinating given the context of this blog and today's topic because, as it turns out that quote actually is not from the Bible at all and, in fact, is about adult spanking!  For the whole back story, check out this article: http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2010/11/spare-rod-and-spoil-child-is-not-in.html.  Note: The quote I ended up using has nothing to do with parental discipline, but I found it while doing the search for quotes for today's topic and it seemed to me to be a very insightful statement on the interplay between love and authority.

Now, after that little diversion, I’ll throw out my own answer to “A husband who knows” topic, hopefully without retreading too much on February’s post. 

For someone who now spends hours a week writing or reading about adult discipline, being disciplined plays a very minor role in my memories of my childhood and teen-age years.  Paradoxically, I’ve come to believe that is why it became such an obsession for me after I discovered Domestic Discipline via The Disciplinary Wives Club website.  In terms of spankings, I honestly don’t have a clear memory of a single one I received from my mother, though I assume she must have given me a few because it was such a commonplace thing where I was growing up that it would have been astonishing for any kid to not get spanked by both parents fairly regularly. 

I think the reasons I don’t recall any by my mother is because they simply weren’t that eventful and probably happened when I was young enough that I just don’t remember them.   

Interestingly, I do remember at least one spanking she gave one of my sisters.  In fact, it had some corollaries to the drawing the left, except what I recall is my sister being draped over the end of the bed, not on all fours on top of it.  What I don't recall is exactly how I came to have this memory. The most likely explanation is that I opened the bedroom door a crack and looked in as it was happening.  Probably should have earned one myself for that behavior.

I'm also pretty certain that was not the only time my sister got spanked.  She was kind of a bully as a teen and got in lots of trouble at school and, like a lot of families at that time and in that place, the rule was "get spanked at school, get a second and harder one at home that night."

I do recall some threatened and at least one actual spanking from my father.  I recall the threatened spanking situation fairly vividly, and it involved one of those very direct instructions that if I kept doing something I was going to get spanked.  What I don’t recall is whether I actually did keep doing what I was doing and did actually get spanked.  I even more vividly recall one actual spanking, because it would have been pretty hard to forget as it was a very sound spanking with a belt.


But, I think it is not so much spanking in particular as discipline in general where my parent’s approach was both atypical for the time and place but also very distinct from what I need now and what my wife are increasingly experimenting with her trying to provide.  My mother was very strong-willed in some ways, but it was expressed very erratically.  She could go from June Cleaver to Mommy Dearest in a heartbeat.  She seldom made or enforced rules but, at the same time, could be very pushy and aggressive.  But, it was totally inconsistent and never really connected to setting a rule precluding any particular bad behavior and then imposing a consequence for that behavior. 

My father’s approach to bad behavior was even more forgiving.  He had been a wild man in his youth and, frankly, well past the age where most men start growing up.  If I had to compare him to a literary character, the closest I can come is probably Hud in the Larry McMurtry novel “Horseman Pass By,” which was made into a movie starring Paul Newman as the erratic western anti-hero Hud. He was sort of a force of nature, but it wasn’t just by temperament; it was his overarching philosophy and encompasses his philosophy on parenting.  He told me more than once in high school, “I’m not going to lay down a bunch of rules unless and until you screw up in some way that shows me you need them.”  Now, that may sound like a teenage boy’s wet dream, but the problem was I did, in fact, screw up a lot at least by normal standards.  I was just smart and lucky enough to get myself out of it most of the time.  So, there was almost nothing like accountability-based or rule-driven discipline for me growing up:


I wasn’t really aware of how stressful that was at the time, but I think by the time I got out of college I felt like I had the world on my shoulders, because when there are no boundaries being imposed on you, everything you do and all the associated consequences are fully on you, too.  By the time I got out of grad school, I felt an incredible amount of stress and anxiety, even if I didn’t really show it.  So, I think I was primed and ready when I stumbled on the Disciplinary Wives Club in my late 30s.  The descriptions of men having boundaries imposed upon them by strong-willed wives just really got to me deep down inside.  But, I don’t think I consciously associated it with anything maternal.  I really needed someone to set rules and enforce them consistently, but anyone would do if they had sufficient presence and authority to make me feel like I am not the one in command and that punishment is inevitable and resistance futile.  While the "strict mom" archetype serves that role, so could an aunt, teacher, school principal, or any other authoritarian whose power or position was sufficient to make me submit.

So, to answer “A husband who knows” first question, the differences between the discipline received from my parents and the discipline from my wife are like night and day.  My parents very seldom spanked and, at least once I got old enough to remember such things, arguably never really disciplined, at least if we associate discipline with, to use Anton’s word, “training.”  “Effectiveness” follows that same answer – my parents didn’t discipline at all, so anything my wife does is likely to be more effective.

I think the more interesting part of the topic for me is the interplay between what I didn’t get back then and what I think I need now. For a long time, I didn’t bring this up at all with Anne, or even really to myself, though I think I suspected on some level that my need for adult discipline is rooted in a need for what I will call, for lack of a better word, “re-parenting.” 


Anne has talked in positive terms about using DD to reduce me to a "teen-age boy who needs a spanking from his mom."  She also has compared me to a teenager who mischievously pushes buttons just to do it, then is surprised when she actually does something about it.  It's that roller-coaster ride that is my DD obsession—wanting boundaries when I don’t perceive them and then getting resentful when she suddenly imposes one.  What I am starting to appreciate is it may very well have been my own mother's erratic approach to parenting, and my father’s totally passive approach, that put me on that roller-coaster, wanting discipline when it is absent but resenting it once it is imposed. And, what I seem to both crave and resist the most is consistent, no nonsense rule setting and direction.  In fact, at the risk of saying anything negative, I think the one "deficiency" in our DD lifestyle has always been lack of consistency, and I think I crave it (and resist it) precisely because my mother was so inconsistent in her moods and parenting approach.

As discussed last year, I've also noticed that part of the attraction I have to spanking drawings that include a maternal vibe is the "getting down to business" demeanor and the sense of inevitability it conveys, and the domestic setting definitely adds to the ambiance.   


Yet, I have shied away from expressing a lot of this on the blog, because I do want it to be a positive resource that encourages newbies to try Domestic Discipline, but I also realize that the “I’m his wife, not his mother” attitude may be pretty prevalent with wives who are unexpectedly confronted with a husband’s need for discipline. 

So, thanks to a “Husband who knows” for this week’s topic.  I look forward to all your input on this.

By the way, I came across this demotivational poster a few weeks ago and about fell out of my chair laughing.  When it comes to my anti-authoritarian streak -- this is me.  Right here.

Saturday, August 10, 2019

Club Meeting 307 - Scolding

“Power is not a means; it is an end.  - George Orwell

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships, mainly of the Female/male variety.  I hope you had a good week.

Sorry for the late posting.  I had a few other things going on today.  Typical summer Saturday. 

Thanks for carrying on without me.  I did check in to see what was going on from time to time, but I was consciously trying to check out a bit.  I succeeded to some extent, though I ended up getting sick a few days into it.  I guess the upside is, I’ve been hoping to lose 10 or 15 pounds – just didn’t anticipate it happening quite so abruptly and violently.  I know -- Too Much Information, right?

I can’t say I came back super inspired with new topics.  But, it was nice of some of you to help me out with some ideas based on comments from a week ago.  During our discussion of rituals, Danielle and Alan had an exchange about scolding and its place in an FLR and DD relationship.  Based on some past polls, despite—or perhaps because of—its humbling aspects, many men seem to crave a firm “talking to.”  Here are the results of one we ran a couple of years ago:

"I am in a DD relationship, and if I could change things, I wish . . ."  

Spankings were more severe                                   76
Spankings were less severe                                       5

Spankings were more frequent                               91
Spankings were less frequent                                   3

My partner would be more verbally strict       76
My partner would be less verbally strict            0

My partner would be more openly dominant        67
My partner would be less openly dominant            1

While “more openly dominant,” came close, “more verbally strict” was the only answer that was 100% unanimous.  So, apparently many of us fantasize about their wives “using their words” to put us in our place.  Danielle talked about it thusly:

“Spankings are always preceded by a scolding. I’ve become adept at scolding and I like doing it. In pre-FLR days, Wayne and I used to have some pretty intense arguments about things like the division of housework. Now that we have a FLR I find it wonderfully empowering to be able to tear a strip off my husband in a one-sided way because I remember how he used to argue with me. I think it is as humbling for him as it is empowering for me. Sometimes a chastisement will begin and end with a good scolding.”



Alan responded:

“In our house a serious scolding usually is a segue to spanking but sometimes I am smart enough to back down early enough I get warnings, her favorite being “you’re close”. Discipline is a delicate dance and I unconsciously gauge how far I can go. That leash has gotten shorter and shorter over the years. But at the same time I think her warnings have become more and more effective because I know the point of no return is close. It’s part of the paradox every spankee confronts -loving to fantasize a spanking will be administered but hating the actual spanking itself.”


As Danielle and Alan point out, scolding can be a prelude to discipline, an independent form of discipline, or something that helps reinforce her authority and control.  I suppose it also could be used after a spanking to reinforce the message.


So, scolding it this week’s topic.  What role, if any, does it play in your DD or FLR relationship?  Are you one of those men who crave it?  Are those needs satisfied?  And, importantly, what impact does her scolding have on you? 

Tell us all how that works, with as much detail as possible since I think we all—husbands and wives—benefit from concrete examples. For the wives, are you comfortable scolding, lecturing, and verbally chastising your man?  If so, was it always that way?  If not, how did you get comfortable with it?  How does he react to it?

To kick it off, I am one of those men who want—or think I want—verbal strictness and scolding.  This is one area in which my desire for authority with a “maternal” vibe really comes shining through.  I would like her to explore being much more verbally strict – telling me what to do, chastising me with some real force and fury when I screw up, etc.  Our reality is a little different.  Most of the scolding that happens is, in fact, a prelude to spankings, and she doesn’t tend to “rip me a new one” outside that context.

I’m sure some women worry about being seen as “bitchy” if they are verbally strong, but I think for men wired like many of us here, it works the opposite.  Weak verbalizing comes off as “nagging,” while a strong and confident woman saying what she expects and enforcing her rules with her voice as much as with her paddle is incredibly sexy and alluring.

So, tell us about your experiences and views on scolding and verbal strictness.

I hope you have a great week.