Labels and Acronyms - Do We All Mean the Same Thing When We Talk About DD, FLR, etc.? (552)

“Power is not a means; it is an end.”  - George Orwell

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week. Mine was fairly uneventful, which can be good.  I have a busier, more adventurous agenda planned for next week, so just a “heads up” that I won’t be posting next week. 

 

Thank you to those who participated in the discussion regarding spanking “friends with benefits”, and other spanking experiences with people other than spouses and girlfriends.  I didn’t expect that many of us would have experienced spankings from platonic friends and that most of our experiences would be confined to common “real life” scenarios like parental and school spankings.  That is where it seemed to land for most of the group, though I do envy those of you have had wider-ranging experiences.

 

This week’s topic extends from the one a couple of weeks ago in which we talked about how we feel when our wives do something to assert their authority, whatever that level of authority may be.  I had suggested that we talk about our feelings about the authority, without trying to assign a label to it, e.g. trying to distinguish between DD-style authority and FLR-style authority. 

 

Applying such labels proved to be too tempting, and we soon got into a discussion about the difference between DD and FLR.  Norton suggested that it’s hard not to get into a discussion of those labels, though he also suggested that ultimately they may make little practical difference:

 

“Though the discussion may have "run right over Dan's request" re: semantics, there doesn't seem to be any arguing about it. It's hard to avoid when describing what level of authority your wife has in the relationship, but if she has the authority to spank at any time, for any reason, it doesn't matter much whether you describe your relationship as FLR or DD.”

 

Alan followed up with:

 

Sorry if it was I who violated the guideline - it was inadvertent. But having done it already, I will make one more point about the FLR concept. It seems extreme to me (and unrealistic) in a relationship that often includes an alpha male. Yes, I need my wife's discipline (and spanking). But she also wants me to be a partner and to be strong and step up when needed and free to bring my strengths and capacities to our relationship. I do realize semantics (and definitions) are the issue here. But I also agree with Norton that these labels are hard to avoid in discussing our wives' level of authority.

 

That led me to chime in with an observation about Alan’s view of FLR and how to me it illustrates that the labels are often troublesome, because we clearly don’t define them in the same way:

 

Alan, I think this illustrates why I think the labels just aren't very helpful. You say "the FLR concept" as if it is some well-defined and commonly understood thing, and you see it as extreme and unrealistic, especially for a couple with an alpha male. Yet, I *am* an alpha male and in a relationship that sounds pretty close to how you describe yours, and yet I would describe mine as something like "FLR lite". You and I don't agree on the label, because we clearly don't attribute the same characteristics to "the FLR concept." That's the problem with most of the labels -- they simply don't conjure up the same image or list of attributes in your mind as they do in mine.

 

That led Alan to this week’s topic suggestion:

 

In view of the frequent mentions of "semantics" and its role, in particular with respect to the acronym F.L.R., I propose a possible future topic. Call it the dictionary edition of the blog, asking discussants to tackle the definitions, "as they use and understand them" of a few terms we sometimes struggle with. Some examples might be FLR, DD, Female Led,and so on. The idea would be to offer short concise definitions that actually capture what any of us mean or understand to be the essential meaning of these terms. It would be interesting for sure to produce an array that I expect would be wide ranging.”

 

I haven’t gotten past my initial desire, as expressed in the topic about authority, to avoid going down the “labeling” rabbit hole, but I didn’t have anything better in mind for this week. Also, while I’m not sure assigning various relationships or their attributes to particular boxes is helpful or enlightening, I do get interested in the fact that any two of us can assign a common label and yet have very different perspectives on what that label actually entails.  The perfect example being that Alan and I seem to describe our own relationships in much the same way, and yet I am comfortable labeling my relationship as sort of “FLR-lite”, while he sees an FLR as “extreme”, especially for relationships that include an alpha male, and seems to think it excludes being strong and free to bring one’s strengths to the relationship.  Since I consider myself and alpha male and don’t think our FLR-lite relationship excludes me being strong and a partner in the relationship, whatever Alan and I mean when we use the acronym FLR, we clearly do not mean the same thing.  

 

So, I’ll give a shot at defining a few terms we toss around a lot, though I know in advance that I probably will end up defining some things more in terms of what they are not than what they may be in themselves.

 

  

Domestic Discipline (aka, “DWC”) relationship: I could start with the definition Aunt Kay used in some of the DWC publications:

 

The definition of a DWC relationship is that the woman's role involves providing moral and behavioral guidance to the man and he invests her with the absolute authority to decide upon and wield punishments accordingly. The man's role is to accept this authority and strive to gain benefit from it.

 

Although it’s a good starting point, I instantly find things I can quibble with.  For example, is my wife giving me “moral” guidance?  My initial reaction is no.  Yet, there was a time recently when she drew a line about a word that she thinks shouldn’t be used, and I can see that being characterized as “moral” position.   

 

Aunt Kay’s emphasis on “absolute authority” also seems to suggest an answer to the question we so often debate, i.e. how much authority do/should our wives have?

  

Though, her definition of “authority” isn’t quite as sweeping as it might seem, since it ties back into the wife’s role of providing “moral and behavioral” guidance.  That would seem to leave room for Alan’s concerns that the marriage should be a partnership in which each can express their strengths.

 

Though, I would say it seems to me not to be a purely equal partnership, given that “moral and behavioral guidance” can cover a hell of a lot of ground, and her authority to punish in those areas is “absolute”.  To me, that's fine -- there is nothing that says partners must be equal.  In fact, the partnership definition that prevails in the law is similar to the way I think it works in relationships; the presumption is that partners have equal authority, but the partners can always agree to some different allocation. 

 

My own definition of [F/m] Domestic Discipline, to the extent I have to give one, is maybe a bit more limited than Kay’s. Something along the lines of:

 

“A relationship between committed partners [domestic] in which the wife has the authority to provide discipline (primarily in the form of spanking and corporal punishment), to the husband in order to change behavior, impose accountability and consequences, and enforce household rules.”

 

Whatever a F/m DD relationship is, it seems to me that it almost always entails these three things: (a) the wife imposes discipline on the husband; (b) the form of discipline is usually spanking or other forms of corporal punishment; and (c) there is some overarching goal of correcting or changing behavior and/or holding the husband accountable.   

 

While Kay’s definition is prescriptive, mine is more descriptive, confining itself to the elements that are common to what I think most would characterize as a DD relationship. My definition doesn’t prescribe the extent of the authority the wife wields, and it doesn’t take a position on whether rules are agreed upon or imposed.

 

While my definition of Domestic Discipline is concrete, it’s going to get wish-washy from there.

 

Female Led Relationship (“FLR”): In my view, what distinguishes an FLR relationship from a DD relationship is the relative authority the wife takes or is granted. 

 

Buts, it’s complicated.  I tend to think of an FLR as DD “plus” some level of authority and control, that’s not quite right, because an FLR doesn’t necessarily have to include DD’s spanking/corporal punishment elements.

 

Also, I personally prefer the term “Wife Led Marriage” to “Female Led Marriage”, as I think that the “female” element may implicitly sweep in some gender-based elements that are more at home in Femdom. 

 

To me, the pertinent definitional factor is that the wife leads in that particular relationship, not that females lead or are superior in general.  But, “Wife Led Marriage” has never really seemed to take off.

 

So, my general definition of FLR would be something along the lines:

 

“A committed relationship in which there is an unequal allocation of authority and decisional power, with the wife setting and enforcing rules, which the husband is required to obey. Although the relationship is a partnership, the wife has an unequal share of authority, including to set rules and expectations for the husband; he has no corresponding authority over the wife.”

 

 

Though, since we are talking primarily about DD relationships here, here’s a definition that’s more tailored to a DD relationship that also is some form of FLR:

 

“A relationship between committed partners [domestic] in which the wife has the authority to provide discipline (primarily in the form of spanking and corporal punishment), to the husband in order to change behavior, impose accountability and consequences, and enforce household rules that are agreed upon or set by the wife. Although the relationship is a partnership, the wife has an unequal share of authority, including to set rules and expectations for the husband; he has no corresponding authority over the wife. The wife’s authority to discipline and punish includes the right to determine (within reasonable limits), why, when and how such punishment is imposed.  With respect to non-disciplinary decisions, the couple still make most major decisions collaboratively, but the wife may have the authority to decide on certain issues when there is a disagreement.”

 

Now, one obvious issue with my definition is that, to my ear, it sounds an awful lot like Aunt Kay’s definition of a DWC marriage.  In my view, however, it’s hard not to include that what Kay and the DWC were advocating was, in fact, a relationship in which the wife’s power was substantially broader than just carrying out agreed-upon punishments for agreed-upon offenses.  The best example is this blurb from one of the pamphlets:

 

“Effective discipline begins well before you ever reach the point of administering a spanking.  It begins with your awareness of your own personal power and your belief that you are indeed the right woman to handle this (which you are).  From now on you expect to be obeyed!

 

Think about where you are.  Your husband has come to you and asked you to please take over his discipline. He has empowered you to assume the maternal role and has agreed to take the child role with respect to discipline.  He wants more than anything else for you to be powerful, assertive and in control.  It is a beautiful thing, really.  He is practically begging you to reach into your internal strength, which he correctly senses is in you, and take him to the woodshed when he needs it.  Believe me, not only can you do this, it gets better and better.”

 

To my knowledge, the DWC never used the term “FLR”, but I don’t know how that description is not of one, given the heavy emphasis on an empowered wife and an obedient husband.

 

When I think about my own personal vision for a DD-FLR marriage, it’s probably something like this from a long-ago commenter named Amy:

 

“Our DD is “rules based plus”, meaning if he breaks a rule or disobeys me his pants come down, end of sentence. The “plus” part is I decide when it happens, and if I say he has broken a rule, he has, no backtalk, no second chances.  Rules based plus just made sense from the beginning. He wanted rules and structure but wanted to choose when to obey and what rules he would follow. He thought it was going to be an erotic game. I straightened him out on that score and a few other things. Along the way I found out things about myself I didn't know and ways to handle him I needed to learn. We have very few disagreements now and these are settled quickly. I sometimes wonder if he would have asked for all this if he had known where it was going. It doesn't really matter because we are not going back.”

 

Femdom: In researching this term for this week’s topic, I came across this from a “sexual health” website:

 

 “Femdom, also known as female domination or female dominance, is a type of BDSM roleplay where the dominant partner is female. It involves power exchange dynamics where the woman takes on the dominant role, and the submissive partner consensually submits to her control. Femdom isn't just about female superiority or male degradation; it's a mutually agreed-upon dynamic that individuals of any gender identity can explore.”

 

I probably can’t do any better than that.  There are things in that definition that illustrate why I don’t see FLR as a “Femdom lite”. I think they are different in kind, not just degree.

 

To me, the difference begins with the reference to “BDSM roleplay”. Both BDSM and Femdom have a heavy emphasis on roleplay and “scenes”, i.e. something that by definition is distinguished from “real life”.  Domestic Discipline and FLR both have a heavy emphasis on incorporating the dynamic into everyday life.

 

Further, Femdom (and BDSM) seem to me to be inherently and pervasively sexual.  DD and FLR obviously have sexual/erotic elements, but it’s a very different emphasis.  Femdom is sex, while sex and eroticism are elements or byproducts of DD and FLR.  And, in Femdom, the sex itself has a Dominant/subservient aspect.

 

I also think the line about “Femdom isn't just about female superiority or male degradation” is important. Femdom isn’t “just about” those things, but it is about those things.  To me, there is a certain attitude of “meanness” and a goal to humiliate or degrade in Femdom.  

 

“Dominance and submission”; “Power exchange”; and, “power differential” relationships:

 

I recall a long time ago getting in an argument of sorts with a commenter who was very into definitional exactitude and who insisted that DD was a subset of BDSM, since BDSM stands for Bondage, Discipline (or Dominance), Sadism & Masochism.

 

I’m not going to try to define BDSM, but I will say I don’t buy that DD is a subset of it. BDSM doesn’t have any disciplinary component, and it’s more about role play than living a reality-based lifestyle.

 

Dominance and submission is harder.  Depending on how we define, I can almost buy that it is an umbrella term that could encompass DD.  Here is an AI-generated definition that may illustrate why:

 

Dominance and submission (D/s) represent a consensual power dynamic where one person (dominant) takes control or leadership, and another (submissive) willingly relinquishes control, often prioritizing the partner's needs. While frequently associated with BDSM, D/s can be a lifestyle choice focused on care, trust, and structured interaction rather than just sexuality. The submissive willingly grants power to the dominant, which in healthy dynamics, is met with care and responsibility, not abuse.

 

That conceivably encompasses DD and also FLR, as I view it at least.  To me, a key differentiator among these relationship is the role of spanking.  Although a DD relationship doesn't necessarily include spanking, in the vast majority of DD relationships, spanking has a central place. With Dominance/submission, spanking is not necessarily a core component, but it does seem like it's at least a likely byproduct.

 

 

I have heard all these relationship types that involve hierarchies of authority and power described as “power exchange” relationships.  I’ve never quite liked the “exchange” part, because it seems to entail one partner giving up power and the other taking it, and I’m not sure that’s how it always works.  But, I recently saw someone describe it as “power differential”, rather than “power exchange”, which to me seems a better fit. 

 

Thoughts on definitions of these terms?  Other terms we run across in these relationships that you’d like to define or kick around?

 

Have a great week.

 

 

Friends (and Others) With (Spanking) Benefits (The Club - Meeting 551)

“There are very few honest friends — the demand is not particularly great.” — Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was uneventful on the behavior front, though hectic and a little challenging on the medical front.  Covid symptoms continued to plague me.  I saw a doctor and got some relief with those, but then ended up with more testing to address some new areas of concern.  This getting old shit isn’t for wussies.

 

 

Thanks for the quality discussion around whether our DD offenses have a shelf life. I suspected we’d get a very wide variety of answers and we did, including Jackson’s wife who will go back and take care of things from years past on one end of the spectrum, and Spanked Cowboy whose typical wait time is measured in minutes. 

 

For this week, I’m going to do something a little different, though I’m not sure it adds up to much of a topic.

 

When I write a weekly entry, I usually have identified a topic and have ideas for various angles on it.  Prior to and during the writing process, I will go to my collection of spanking memes and art to look for examples that seem a good fit for the topic and sub-topics.  Sometimes, reviewing the memes and art gives me more ideas for angles to explore.

 

Sometimes, however, I’ll see a meme or drawing that speaks to me in some way but doesn’t fit neatly into any fully-baked topic idea.  I want to use them but can’t always think of a good way to do it.

 

I had that happen recently with some memes that dealt with a theme I would describe as “friendship and DD”.  They address, in one way or another, “friends with benefits” situations, but in this case the “benefits” include spanking.  One of the first I came across with that theme was this:

 

 

The idea of an adult friend who was empowered to provide spanking discipline pushed some buttons for me.  Being married to a wonderful Disciplinary Wife, I don’t need a friend to provide that service, but if I ever found myself single, I’m pretty sure I would strongly prefer a “friend” arrangement such as the one depicted above to visiting a pro.  The trick, of course, would be in finding such a friend.

 

I also saw this one, involving a spanking relationship going back to childhood:

 

Here's another in that same vein:

 

 

I was never fortunate enough to have such a friend, but kids play “doctor” and "house".  It doesn’t seem much of a stretch that in areas where spanking is openly practiced that it might spill over to kids experimenting with spanking-themed games.      

 

That never happened to me, but it might have been more likely in the town I was born in and left while I was in elementary school.  It was rural, and chockful of both spanking and religious conservatism, which seems like an ideal recipe for kids exploring naughty stuff.  In fact, to this day some of my cousins bring up spankings from when we were kids or inject it into the conversation in other ways.   

 

 

And, while I was never spanked by or gave a spanking to a friend, it was very common for us to know about each other’s spankings, and in retrospect it seems like under the right circumstances that could have led to some interesting exploration or at least communication.  

 

There was also this one, which I’ve used a few times and really like (other than the typos).  It seems clear from the text that it’s a “spanking from a friend” scenario, though it’s not clear whether she’s the recipient’s friend or his wife’s.  Or both.

 

 

A few weeks ago, I had an exchange with Aunt Kay’s husband about the olden days of the DWC and how some of Kay's friends in the group had been given the authority to make “independent spanking decisions” over him.  That too pushed a lot of buttons for me. It reminded me of how vulnerable it could feel when I was a kid growing up in that rural town, where everyone seemed to have the authority to spank everyone else’s kids.  It was assumed that teachers and principals could do it without any notice to the parents, other than the note that went out after the paddling and was almost guaranteed to result in another spanking at home.  Imagine if that were extended to adults in our lives.

 

 

Although the idea of someone having “independent spanking authority” is fodder for some fantasies for me, it doesn’t have to go as far as that person doing the spanking.  Several years ago, one of our regular commenters, Danielle, was in a consensual cuckolding relationship, in which her lover and her husband were friends, or at least friendly.  They were doing some common activity together, and the husband did something sloppily.  The other man reported it to Danielle, with a straight-forward suggestion that she should spank the husband for it.  She did, and the husband had to call the other guy and tell him that he had been spanked.   

 

That whole idea of someone having a relationship with Anne that might involve telling her I should be spanked definitely does something for me.  I’m not sure why, though it may go back to that bygone school-age culture in which parents felt totally comfortable calling other parents to rat out bad behavior, knowing it would almost certainly be taken care of with a thorough spanking.  

 

 Like I said, I don’t have much of a topic in mind here, beyond the general one of friends with spanking privileges.  Have you ever been spanked by someone who was a friend but not a wife or maybe even a girlfriend?  If with a girlfriend, did any of you experience that in high school (or earlier) or college?  Were any of those non-marital spanking relationships disciplinary in nature?

 

I don’t anticipate many have had such experience, but you never know.  But, in the interests of generating some broader discussion, what about other non-marital spankings?  Many of us who are in our 50s or older grew up in areas where spanking was common. 

 

And, of course there are all the classic subjects of spanking erotica and spanking fantasies.  Without limiting the possibilities, what categories of people have you been spanked by other than parents, girlfriends later in life, and wives?  Friends? Teachers? Principals? 

 

 Coaches? Mentors?  

 

 Nuns, priests, other church figures?

 

 

And, of course, there are all those mother-in-law stories and memes.

 

 

My own experiences are pretty limited.  Given how prevalent it was, I would be shocked if I had not been spanked by at least grandparents, uncles and aunts. Yet, I can recall a lot of spanking threats, but not that many real spankings.  And, I had a few very hot aunts; I am confident I would remember those had they happened.  The same with school.  Lots of threats, but I don’t recall it actually happening.

 

In many ways, that’s too bad, and not just because I would have been left with some titillating memories.  Looking back, it was in high school where my behavior started to go off the rails.  By the time I graduated, I was engaging in all sorts of excessive behavior.  Those excesses were reinforced and extended in college and, to some degree, in my various professional roles.  Yet, I didn’t discover DD until my late 30s.  I suspect I would have have had a more painful but less anxiety-ridden second and third decades of my life if I’d had more people in it who felt free to turn me over their knee or make me drop my pants for a hard paddling.

 

I hope you’ll share whatever experiences you’ve had with friends and others with spanking benefits.  Or, if you don’t have any experiences to share, which if any fill your fantasies?

 

Have a great week.

Do Spankable Offenses Have a Shelf Life? (Club Meeting - 550)

“Procrastination makes easy things hard, hard things harder.” - Mason Cooley

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was pretty uneventful, in part because I’m still having some trouble shaking the post-Covid symptoms.  It’s getting kind of old.  I also feel like I’m stuck between seasons, getting enthused for a spring that first we seemed to run right over, before returning to something more winter-like.  One day it’s pushing 90 degrees, and the next I’m shivering at the dog park in my down puffer jacket.  It’s like the universe dangling motorcycle season right in front of me but just beyond my grasp.

 

 

Thank you to those who participated in talking about last week’s topic on the feelings we experience when our wives show they are in charge or when they embrace their authority.  I always worry a topic is going to flop when I link it too closely to our mostly male membership’s “feelings” about something, even though it’s the emotions surrounding DD that I most like exploring here. 

 

This week’s topic is a little more concrete, and it’s based on this comment by Jackson (edited lightly for length) from a few weeks ago:

 

“My wife Lauren and I have been in FLR with DD F/m for a little more than 3 years now. My behavior has vastly improved and while far from perfect there are weeks where there really isn’t much to discuss in our weekly Sunday check in that is then followed by a spanking for the discussed infractions. Only recently, on weeks that have been really good or near perfect, She talks to me about past transgressions that have really hurt her. Before FLR I could be brash, arrogant, rude, and even mean or bullying. I used to call names during arguments. 

 

FLR has completely fixed that. Lauren is a very attractive woman and does not and never has had a weight problem, but for some reason years ago I had made comments about Her weight and basically engaged in “body shaming”. This caused Her a lot of pain. I also called Her out on numerous occasions for being too lenient in Her parenting of our sons. Our sons turned into successful, caring, compassionate men, and we are both very happy with and proud of them. They are that way largely because of Her parenting style. This criticism also causes Lauren pain even still. 

 

So, on “perfect” weeks She has started talking to me and scolding me during the spanking for these past misdeeds. I have to state during the punishment that “I will not body shame, that body shaming another person is always wrong”, and also “Your parenting skills are why we have such wonderful sons.” I find that this is intensely moving for me, and She has said that during the spanking She actually enjoys it and feels a sense of satisfaction and power that is healing. 

 

I have educated myself on somatic therapy (addressing past trauma through the body using sensual touch and pain), and I think that we are in a way practicing this technique through spanking and scolding and reciting the statements that resonate for me during the act.

 

I agree that the spanking has to have meaning and otherwise is just a beating, at least for me. Addressing past issues is healing for both of us and provides a sense of closure, healing and catharsis. I think we will continue to explore this on those weeks where otherwise a spanking would not be necessary. 

 

Intimacy and sex almost always follow a spanking. For us it is a time to be close, completely open with each other and it allows for an opportunity to take all defenses down and reclaim our true selves and to express the true, real love we feel for each other. For me especially it is a time and space to escape the Patriarchy that is so engrained and embraced by not only men but especially women in our culture and really throughout the world. I am so grateful that we found this lifestyle. I wish we had found it much earlier, but better late than never!”

 

There is a lot to unpack in Jackson’s comment, and it would probably be good for multiple topics, including DD and parenting styles and whether post-spanking intimacy helps or hurts the DD dynamic.

 

But, the part I really wanted to focus on is the bit about using DD to go back and address old—in Jackson’s account, sometimes very old—misbehavior. 

 

I would sum up the resulting topic as, “In your Domestic Discipline dynamic, does accountability (or penance, or clearing the slate) have a shelf life?”

 

 

I gave my own answer to that question in a reply to Jackson’s comment:

 

“There are a lot of interesting points here. I find that my need for accountability on particular issues usually has a pretty short shelf life. If something isn't dealt with in about a week, I'm over it.

 

But, I'm not sure that would be the case where hurting other people is concerned. I think I'm generally a nice person, and while I can ‘out asshole’ anyone if they start it, I try very hard to never "punch down", i.e. to attack people who aren't peers or above and able to fight back and then some, and I generally try not to hurt anyone without cause. But, we all make mistakes, and I do have a temper. On those occasions where I have said or done something that I know was hurtful and uncalled for, those things do tend to stick with me for a much longer time.

 

So, I can see how going back and addressing old behavior that fits in that category could give sufficient meaning to a spanking that it would still satisfy my need for accountability. And, while I don't really carry grudges myself, my wife certainly does, and I can see how dealing with some past hurtful conduct would be meaningful for her.”

 

So, for me, the need for accountability does have a shelf life.  And, for minor or more pedestrian matters, it tends to be pretty short.  Though, I don’t know whether the ranking is intuitive, and the ranking itself seems to have a shelf life.

 

The best example is probably drinking to excess.  The day after, I often feel disappointed in myself, though I also often feel like I need at least a day to recover in order to focus on the spanking as opposed to the hangover.  Yet, if there is a delay of even three or four days, I’ve fully moved on.

 

Conversely, things that might seem minor to her can leave me feeling angry or frustrated with myself for at least several days and often longer.  An example would be certain acts of carelessness, especially if they resulted in substantial loss of time or money and could have been easily avoided.

 

A recent example touched on both those scenarios. I went out with a friend for lunch and “a couple of beers”, but it turned into most of an afternoon and several beers.  A day or so before, I couldn’t find one of my favorite jackets.  Luckily, it turned out I had left it in a locker at the gym and someone turned it into Lost & Found.  Anne didn’t end up spanking me for the excessive alcohol, but her questioning seemed to indicate she saw it as spankable.  I was far more focused, however, on the carelessness that caused me to almost lose my favorite jacket.  I didn’t ask for a spanking for it (or for the drinking), but that was largely because I was feeling so lousy from the long-Covid stuff.  I definitely was angry with myself for it.

 

Another good example is from three or four years ago.  I was going on a group motorcycle tour, and I neglected to inspect my tires before the trip.  One turned out to be way too worn for the conditions, and it put me in some precarious positions over the course of the trip and also caused problems for the group in helping me get up a particularly gnarly trip.  I was angry at myself about that one not just for days but for several weeks.  I didn’t ask for a spanking for that one either, but I’ve made progress on that front in recent years and, if it happened today, I think I would ask for it.

 

Jackson’s primary examples were about incidents in which he said rude or hurtful things to his wife.  I don’t know what my shelf life for those kinds of incidents might be, but I do note that the degree of my disappointment or anger at myself for things like carelessness ramps up if it caused harm or extra work for someone else.

 

 

However, the length of our need for accountability as husbands wasn’t what Jackson’s examples were really getting at. His focus was not on his need for accountability but, rather, on his wife’s need/desire to mete it out. It seems that some of his comments were hurtful enough to her that holding him accountable even years later helped her get the lingering anger or hurt off her chest.

 

Jackson doesn’t seem to take issue with that.  We haven’t explored using DD to address anything so long term and, therefore, I’m not sure how I would react.  Because I do tend to hold on to feelings of guilt when I’ve harmed or hurt others, I suspect I would be fine with it and might even get some emotional benefit from it myself, though it might depend on the extent to which I agreed that whatever I said or did was wrong and fairly substantial. And, while I don't tend to hold grudges, Anne does, so I wouldn't be surprised if she found exploring spanking for long-past behavior just as gratifying as Jackson's Lauren apparently does.

 

 

Though, if I were convinced that something I did had left genuine bad feelings, I think I probably could get my mind around being spanked for it even if it had been unintentional or if I didn’t necessarily agree that it was a serious matter. And, being spanked under such circumstances might at least have a prophylactic effect, teaching me to think more before I speak.

 

  

What about you?  Does your need for accountability or consequences have a shelf life?  If so, how does that work?  Does it vary by the kind of offense?  By whether others suffered bad consequences or hurt feelings because of your behavior or harsh/thoughtless words?   

 

What about alleviating hour own long-term guilt? Are there any things from even the distant past that you might want to be spanked for, to relieve yourself of guilt or make amends?

 

 

Just as importantly, how does your wife approach the passing of time after an offense has occurred?  Does she tend to forget about it quickly if punishment doesn’t quickly follow the crime?  Or, will she circle back and address things several days (or longer), after the offense?   

 

 

What is her statute of limitations on your bad conduct, if any?  Are any of the other wives like Jackson’s Lauren, spanking for hurtful behavior that happened months or years before? Do you think spankings for long-past behavior would be helpful, or counterproductive, in your DD relationship?

 

Have a great week.

 

 

What Feelings are Evoked When a Disciplinary/Spanking Wife Embraces Her Authority? (The Club - Meeting 549)

“Power is not a means; it is an end.”  - George Orwell

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was fairly good, though there were a couple of instances of carelessness that left me frustrated with myself.  And, the week ended with a very long lunch with a friend at which “a few beers” arguably became a few too many, though my own view is it was kind of borderline. And, it didn’t morph into other bad conduct, like staying up late.  So, I’m probably owed a spanking, though it’s one of those situations in which what Anne thinks she’s spanking for her different from what I think I am being spanked for.

 

 

Thanks to those of you who talked about the role of embarrassment in your Domestic Discipline relationship, including the embarrassment associated with crying.  Given my morbid fascination with crying from a spanking and my inability to experience it after 20+ years, I got some hope from comment from Edward, who said:

 

“I had a breakthrough about two years ago, and broke down into tears, with all out bawling, and sobbing. This was after years of D.D. with never crying once. Since then, it's happened many times, and it comes much easier.”

 

Another interesting comment came from Jake, who opined about the relationship between crying and authority:

 

My own view is that much of what drives all this emotionally is differences in status and times where those differences are not just exposed but emphasized. So, what I see bringing on a feeling of vulnerability is simply her being in a position of authority, which she feels is appropriate to the relationship and an eager, smirking willingness not just to exercise it, but to have occasions where her subordinate affirms it in a manner at odds with his own dignity.

 

It makes sense that those who have cried hard while being spanked point to the importance of scolding. Being held accountable by a romantic partner who considers you in need of discipline is humbling.

 

I tend to see hard crying as an expression of acknowledging authority. An unstated but heartfelt and deeply embarrassing declaration that "You're in charge here. This is the right way to handle my misbehavior. Spanking works!", validates the disciplinarian's beliefs about their relative status and her role.

 

So much of spanking in general is about a demonstration and reestablishment of authority. Some of the language of spanking is about this, e.g. being put in one's place, or receiving a reality check, as is the emphasis on the spankee being humbled in multiple ways (e.g. listening instead of talking, having to justify one's behavior to someone else, state of dress, physical position) instead of it being strictly about pain.

 

Jake's comments suggest something that I think is implicit in DD but that we don't talk about a lot, namely that it is, at the end of the day, an arrangement that is purpose-built for shifting the power dynamic. In our egalitarian society, it cuts against the grain in intentionally giving one partner unequal power.  It's why I've always liked this cartoon by KDPierre (sorry, I'm not aware of  place he currently is posting his art):

 

 

Jake’s emphasis on authority, and how authority affects important aspects of the DD relationship and the emotions involved, was a good lead-in for this topic suggestion from Norton:

 

I would be curious to hear more about how many of you feel about your wife being in charge and embracing her role. Some of the comments almost sound like complaining about being in this subordinate position, when the usual reason it is happening is because we almost always have asked for it. As mentioned before, I am grateful to have found a woman who is willing and able to discipline me, and seems to enjoy doing it. It may be painful and embarrassing, but my life and our relationship is better because of DD.

 

Now, I don’t personally detect “complaining” about being in a subordinate position and am not sure which comments Norton is referencing.  However, I also think that to the extent a wife really is “in charge” and really does have the authority to make independent decisions where discipline and rules are concerned, complaining or resentment seems kind of inevitable.   

 

 

If the husband always and without exception agrees with his wife’s disciplinary decisions, is she really “in charge” or is she, rather, just doing what he wants by delivering spankings for things he already thinks he should be spanked for.  To me, a wife “embracing” her role of being in charge (of disciplinary decisions at least) means getting comfortable with making and enforcing decisions that he does not agree with.   

 

Part of really embracing authority includes rejecting any attempts to limit it.  In the DWC’s “Tips & Methods” section, Aunt Kay advised wives to push back adamantly on any attempt to undermine their disciplinary authority:

 

“The first thing you must do is to explain the golden rule of your proposed (or existing) disciplinary relationship. He must render complete obedience to you with regard to disciplinary issues at all times and must be willing to carry out any and all orders you give him without question or hesitation.

 

The first time he refuses to obey an order you need to stop and have a serious talk with him right then and there. If the husband is allowed to dictate when he will or will not obey an order, then that leaves some question as to who is really in charge, doesn't it? Once he has agreed to these terms and understands that the whole scene will end permanently if he is not cooperative, you are ready to begin.”

 

Note that this entails the wife establishing her authority at the beginning of the DD relationship.  I do wonder how realistic that is, as I think women often get hit cold with their husbands’ requests for a disciplinary relationship, and unless the woman is naturally dominant, it takes time for confidence to grow into comfort in exercising authority. For most people, leadership is a learned skill not an innate attribute.

 

Norton’s question focused not on to what extent a wife should be in charge but, rather, on how we husbands feel when she does take charge, to whatever extent that may be.

 

When I think back over our 20+ years in this lifestyle, the times that really stand out have little to do with the spanking itself.  Instead, my strongest feelings tend to involve times when she exercised her authority in some way that exemplified her taking more control, becoming more comfortable giving direction, or making her own determinations about what should be punished and how. Sometimes it was more subtle; just something she did or said that indicated she had made the leap from accommodating my requests for discipline to really seeing herself as in charge.

 

There was the time in the very early days, when we tallied up a minimum number of swats for identified offenses, and I had a "bad week," resulting in a seriously intimidating number of swats with the heavy fraternity-style paddle. expressed concern that I couldn’t take it, having never taken anything close to that many before. To this day, I vividly remember Anne showing no mercy, telling me, “Well, that’s too bad because you earned it. You are going to take every swat you have coming.”

 

There was the first time she gave me a surprisingly hard spanking for repeatedly failing to do a minor household chore correctly.

 

Or, the time when we were hosting Christmas brunch and, after a couple of glasses of champagne, I made some cocky retort when she asked me to do something in the kitchen. She replied, “Well, you can do it, or I can just take you upstairs and spank you.” I don’t think anyone heard it, but others were within earshot.

 

Or, the first time she really lit into me with a lecture that was cutting and really hurt my pride. After sulking about it for a couple of weeks, I accepted that it had been deserved. I also accepted that maybe it didn't really matter whether I accepted.

 

Today, even with the benefit of 20+ years of increasing self-awareness about why I want and need this lifestyle, my strong desire for imposed authority leads to a very complicated mix of feelings. In virtually every other aspect of my life, I won't tolerate being subject to someone else's dictates.  Yet, in my marriage, I crave it. And, I crave her sense of her authority becoming so solid that she pays little or no attention to my misgivings or excuses.

 

 

I think I did recognize early on that my attraction to DD included a perverse need to have my emotional boundaries pushed, but not with the clarity I have today.  And, back then I didn't get that my DD fascination was related more to being subject to my wife's authority than to her spankings per se.

 

I’m not sure why it took me so long to really understand that aspect of my attraction, since broad female authority was replete in the DWC website content and handbooks that kicked off my interest in DD. Aunt Kay emphasized repeatedly what she saw as the very broad authority bestowed on disciplinary wives:

 

“A relationship where the woman of the house applies discipline to the men in her life, whenever and however she sees fit, is a happier, healthier and better world.”

   

“The definition of a DWC relationship is that the woman’s role involves providing moral and behavioral guidance to the man and invests in her the absolute authority to decide upon and wield punishments accordingly. The man’s role is to accept this authority and strive to gain benefit from it.”

 

“Receiving benefit from discipline begins well before you ever reach the point of actually experiencing an old-fashioned spanking.  It begins with your awareness of your wife’s personal power and your belief that she is indeed the right woman to handle you.  Expect to be obedient!”

 

“Remember where it all began.  You asked your wife to please take over your discipline.  You have empowered her to assume the maternal role and have agreed to take the child role with respect to discipline. You want, more than anything else, for her to be powerful, assertive and in control.  It is a beautiful thing, really. Your obedience and compliance will greatly assist her in reaching her full potential.”

 

 

I generally agree with Aunt Kay that most of who are attracted to a DD relationship desire a partner who is powerful, assertive, and in control, though we have different visions for how broad that control and authority should be.  The only thing I quibble with is the idea that wives can go from a fairly traditional, equitable role to “in charge” by simply deciding it will be so.  Gaining authority is usually a process, not an event.

 

As for how I feel about my wife being in charge and embracing her role, it’s very dependent on timing.  When we’re going through day-to-day life and there aren’t many demonstrations of authority, I’m exactly like the husbands who Aunt Kay identified as craving a strong authority figure.  In those moments, I want someone who is firmly in charge and projects a confidence in giving direction that shows she embraces her role.

 

When it’s actually happening, however, it’s more of a mixed bag.  When it has happened in connection with a spanking, honestly, what I’ve felt is disquieted or disturbed.  When I recall incidents like insisting I would take every swat under our tally system or giving me a very hard spanking for what I saw as minor forgetfulness on a household chore, it was like there was a sudden and unexpected realization that the world and my perception of my place in it had changed.  I’d gotten what I thought I wanted, but it was disturbing. 

 

I equate some of this to feelings I had when encountering authority as a child. I can recall a few instances at home or at school when I got in trouble—including one time that I got spanked by a parent and another when an uncle threatened a spanking—and it felt like this flash of realization that someone actually had authority over me and really might make me accept their rules whether I agreed with them or not.

 

I recall one story here on the blog that I thought really conveyed that sense of discovering one’s wife had really embraced her authority. It came from KOJ, who related an incident in which he ignored his wife’s instruction to limit himself to one drink at a party.  She asked the hostess to let her use one of the bedrooms, then took him upstairs and gave him a sound spanking.  Although the party was loud, he thought it likely that some guests heard him getting spanked.  He described the feelings it evoked:

 

“I also totally agree that escalating the punishment to semi-public had a profound effect on me and our relationship. It planted a healthy fear in my heart and made it clear how much authority she really wielded!”

 

In my case, after the feeling of being shaken up by the change in our power structure passed, I would usually feel turned on, coupled with an increased sense of respect for my wife.

 

As we’ve focused on “smaller” things, like carelessness, I also sometimes feel a mild sense of anxiety, like I’m walking on eggshells. But, I feel like “anxious” is too negative. It’s more like, I feel a heightened awareness of my actions and of possible unpleasant consequences.  Which is kind of what most of us want when we ask for a DD relationship, right?

 

Some of these deeper feelings can be triggered by very subtle shows of authority.  Like that time at the Christmas brunch when she threatened a spanking.  Probably no one overheard it, but they could have.  What I recall feeling was that I was being put in my place firmly and instantaneously.  It was humbling but also a turn-on. More recently, in fact just a few days ago, there was something even more subtle. We were in bed, engaging in some foreplay discussion before the main event.  She brought up the prospect of getting DD back on track after our recent bouts of Covid. 

 

We do talk about DD quite a bit during those foreplay conversations, but it used to be me bringing it up.  Now, it’s more often her, which itself is a sign that she’s becoming more and more comfortable with her role.  But, it was more than that.  She told me that she had just finished a book about women “reclaiming their power”, and the juxtaposition to her reference to getting our DD back on track felt like a subtle yet unmistakable indication that she was really internally exploring her own desire to be more in charge. It was a very brief statement – just a reference to a book she’d read.  Yet, there was such a deeper meaning, and what I felt about it was, honestly, totally turned on by the prospect of her “claiming her female power” over me.

 

It seems like when we talk about these authority issues here in the group, it often degenerates into an argument over semantics, including whether each of us perceives ourselves to be in an FLR or FLR-like relationship. Let’s try to avoid that this time. Instead, whatever each wife’s level of authority may be, what are your feelings about it, especially in those moments were she pushes it to—or over—what was formerly what you thought was a limit? 

 

What about when she says or does something that indicates she embracing being in charge?  Is it a turn on? Or, is there something kind of disturbing or disquieting about it?

 

What about when she pushes that authority in ways you find difficult, or embarrassing, or limiting? Have there been times that she’s exercised her authority in a way you didn’t agree with, like maybe putting her foot down on something or limiting your autonomy in some way you didn’t anticipate?  How did that make you feel?   

 

I hope you all have a great week.

 

FYI, I’ve added a link in the comments to a spanking video that someone sent me recently.  The situation is contrived, and the husband’s acting is pretty bad, but it is one hell of a spanking for some simple carelessness. Enjoy!