The Club - Meeting 495 -- FLR-ish? When does domestic discipline become FLR?

“To say that we mutually agree to coercion is not to say that we are required to enjoy it, or even to pretend we enjoy it.” - Garrett Hardin

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

Well, it took longer than any year I can recall, but summer seemed to finally capitulate and give way to a real fall.  As I write this, I look out my bedroom window at a grey sky as backdrop for waves of yellow and red trees (with still a little green). When I took the dogs for their morning walk, I had to put on one of my cold weather coats.  Love it!

Unfortunately, I am way, way behind my normal schedule in putting up Halloween yard decorations, since most of them go on the lawn and, until a few days ago, I was still watering and cutting grass.  

Anne continues to convalescence and, since I’ve been more or less homebound, there’s very little to report. Turns out this good behavior stuff leaves me with a lot less to talk about on the blog!  It’s not clear when Anne will realistically be in paddle-wielding form again, but I don’t think it’s too far away.  And, while my recent behavior may not have earned one, I get the sense she’s keeping score of things that have gone unpunished during this little medically-induced break, probably because she's told me so.  I guess we'll be seeing where things stand by Halloween.

As for how I’ve been keeping busy during this break, it’s what led, in part, to this week’s topic and an accompanying request to the group for feedback on the blog’s direction.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have spent hours—way too many to count—going through virtually all my old blog posts since it began in 2013, reviewing and copying “the best” comments on various topics.  Over the 11 year history of these daily gatherings, we’ve had 607 posts (some were “no post this week” notices, though a surprising number of those generated full-blown discussions) and, at last count, 26,963 comments.  I now have only about a full year of comments to go (excluding 2024). So, like I said, it has been a lot of hours.  

I’ll probably give some detailed observations from that review in another post, but one thing in particular jumped out at me.  I knew that in the early days we had more female commenters than we do today, but I’d kind of forgotten just how many more.  Some didn’t stick around that long, but there were quite a few who dropped in from time to time.  

But, what really got my attention reading sequentially all the comments from those Disciplinary Wives was just how into being fully in control many of them were.  Even though I was not focusing on Female Led Relationships (FLRs) per se at that point but, rather, only F/m discipline, many of the female commenters sure were, including many who expressly identified themselves as being in that dynamic. And, even those who didn’t use that label often brought an unmistakably “FLR-ish” vibe, for lack of a better word, to the conversation. 

A few examples:

“A wife may and generally should consult with her husband in setting or readjusting boundaries. But ultimately it is her decision what those boundaries are at any point and her decision when and why a punishment occurs. If he does not understand why he is being punished it is her responsibility to explain it to him. But he must accept her judgement whether he agrees or not.” – Marisa

“My advice for husbands is to accept their punishments with as much grace and dignity as possible and to understand their wife would not be spanking them if she did not love them. A man should not worry whether his wife might spank for this or that nearly as much as he should worry that she might give up on it and stop spanking all together. My advice for wives is decide clearly if you are willing to take on the responsibility of being a disciplinarian ( and it is a responsibility) If you decide to go ahead, go all the way establishing your authority with firmness and consistency. It’s a great lifestyle between a loving couple but it IS a lot of work. - Marisa

“I have zero tolerance for disobedience. What would be the point of a FLR if my husband could choose whether or not to do as he’s told?” – Danielle

“My ideal spanking for my husband has to do with attitude and obedience. Other things like location, his position and the tool or tools I use aren’t very important (although I do like to use a strap and the sound it makes) I want him to submit immediately when I decide a spanking and to be obedient and cooperative through the whole thing.” – Holly

“Our DD is rules based plus, meaning if he breaks a rule or disobeys me his pants come down, end of sentence. The plus part is I decide when it happens and if I say he has broken a rule, he has, no backtalk, no second chances.  Rules based plus just made sense from the beginning. He wanted rules and structure but wanted to choose when to obey and what rules he would follow. He thought it was going to be an erotic game. I straightened him out on that score and a few other things. Along the way I found out things about myself I didn't know and ways to handle him I needed to learn. We have very few disagreements now and these are settled quickly. I sometimes wonder if he would have asked for all this if he had known where it was going. It doesn't really matter because we are not going back.” –  Amy

“Accepting and living in a FLR provides clarity and peace. When I have control of decisions, it is on me. There's no blaming or the inevitable well you just didn't understand my plan when it went wrong. It's a heavy responsibility to try to make the right decision all the time, but at least I have control over it and I can own it. For my husband, it takes much of the decision fatigue of guessing what the right answer might be or waiting for me to get angry when his suggestion doesn't work. This is simple and clean. My choice, my responsibility, his responsibility to follow. The clarity of it is a significant component of why we do this.” – Rhiannon

Note the heavy focus on obedience, as well as on not just the benefits but the responsibilities of taking the lead in a F/m disciplinary relationship.

I probably should not have been surprised.  Like so many before and after me, I came to the whole concept of Domestic Discipline through The Disciplinary Wives Club.  Over the last year, I’ve spent a fair amount of time reviewing not only the website but also the DWC handbooks.  It now leaps out at me, in a way that it didn’t when I first encountered it, just how much Aunt Kay and Jerry leaned on the same “obedience” and “control” themes that those early blog commenters emphasized.  It struck me that, while Kay kept explicitly sexual material out of the DWC materials, that doesn’t mean she wasn’t advocating a very FLR-ish power shift.  There are lots of examples, but here is one that encapsulates her view of the appropriate power dynamic:

“Effective discipline begins well before you ever reach the point of administering a spanking.  It begins with your awareness of your own personal power and your belief that you are indeed the right woman to handle this (which you are).  From now on you expect to be obeyed!

Think about where you are.  Your husband has come to you and asked you to please take over his discipline.  He has empowered you to assume the maternal role and has agreed to take the child role with respect to discipline.  He wants more than anything else for you to be powerful, assertive and in control.  It is a beautiful thing, really.  He is practically begging you to reach into your internal strength, which he correctly senses is in you, and take him to the woodshed when he needs it.  Believe me, not only can you do this, it gets better and better.”

There are other quotes where she makes clear that, while getting the husband's “buy in” to the rules is the ideal, it isn’t strictly necessary.  What is necessary is his unfailing obedience to his wife's determination of what is punishment-worthy and her decisions regarding when, how and how long.

“The definition of a DWC relationship is that the woman’s role involves providing moral and behavioral guidance to the man and invests in her the absolute authority to decide upon and wield punishments accordingly.  The man’s role is to accept this authority and strive to gain benefit from it. 

Discipline is based on mutual understanding about the rules of behavior in the home and what to expect if they are broken.  While you have the authority to set the rules, it all works out best if you discuss them with your husband and allow him to “negotiate” some of the rules, so he does in fact feel responsibility for them too.  When a discipline session is called for, it must always be given.  This is especially true when you are beginning your new journey as a DWC wife.”

As longer-term group members know, I’ve gone back and forth on how much to promote FLR relationships on the blog, versus sticking to something more exclusively focused on the corporal punishment aspects, i.e. spanking, of Domestic Discipline.  It did seem like every time I would move consciously in that direction, the BDSM crowd would descend in droves.

But, the real driving force behind the decision was following Aunt Kay’s lead in trying to make it an inviting place for women, many of whom I knew would be turned off by anything involving stereotypical Femdom.

On the other hand, after sifting through thousands of those older comments, it seems clear to me that several of our most active female commenters were either in self-identified FLRs or in relationships that were very FLR-ish.

It led me to ask myself, have I been drawing the line in the right place?  It got me to wondering how some of our new female commenters think of their relationships, not so much in terms of what specific label they apply but, rather, in terms of the breadth of relationship control they exercise and how much of an “I’m in charge” vibe they bring to the whole thing.

My questioning regarding my past line drawing was somewhat reinforced by the profiles of the women who have been following my writing on Medium.  Many of them also seem to be heavily oriented toward FLRs. But, it’s dicey drawing conclusions from that platform, because so many of my followers are erotica writers (Medium is first and foremost a writing platform) and, hence, there tends to be an emphasis on sexual content in many of the profiles.

It seems like every time the topic of FLRs is raised expressly here, we get into long debates about definitions and defining whether we see our particular relationship is falling squarely in the FLR bucket.  I’d really like to avoid that this time. Instead, here is a list of relationship aspects that seem to me to indicate that the couple is going beyond the narrowest form of DD in which both agree to specific offenses that will punished and also agree to all the major how, when and where aspects.  In other words, I’m focusing on the quality and extent of the wife’s authority.  Further, I’ve added a few things that try to get at the general tone. There is a rough progression in the extent or quality of the authority, as I view it.  

I am very sure some will quibble on whether some items belong on the list and others will point out that I forgot certain factors, which is fine. This is meant to stimulate discussion, not to provide some authoritative checklist. So, here goes:

1. If the couple have formal rules for what is spankable, she determines whether his behavior qualifies.  He may (or may not) be allowed to state his case, but she makes the decision and can spank even if he objects.
2. If the couple has rules, she determines in advance what they are.  
3. She can add a rule around spanking any time, at her sole discretion, but with some discussion in advance.
4. There are no formal rules. Rather, she has unlimited discretion to determine the “why” when it comes to spanking.
5. She determines behaviors and habits she expects him to do, not do, or develop and instructs him to do so.  His views may be solicited, but ultimately she decides.
6. His buy-in on what is spankable is ideal but not necessary.  If she determines he should get spanked for something, he gets spanked.
7. In addition to the “why,” she determines the “how” and the “when.”
8. She is verbally stern and feels comfortable giving him instructions on her expectations regarding his behavior.  She is comfortable giving harsh lectures and scolding, including outside the spanking context.
9. There is a heavy emphasis on obedience, not simply around not breaking rules but also doing what she says and following her directions/orders as they are given.
10. She decides how openly to display her authority or the existence of the DD relationship. She chooses to add elements to spankings that are designed to humble him or elevate her power.  For example: Hinting or referring to the DD relationship to friends or family. Conducting spankings at a time in place that risks one being overheard.  Bringing in a witness to overhear, see, or participate in a spanking. 
11. Her decision-making authority extends beyond spanking and disciplinary matters to include broader aspects of the relationship such as financial and spending decisions, parenting decisions, health issues, etc.  While decisions may typically be made jointly, if there is a dispute, she has the final say. 

Like I said, I’m sure people can come up with many other factors to look at and, again, I’m not saying that any of these factors independently determine whether a relationship is or is not an FLR.  I see each as more like a data point indicating that the relationship has aspects that go beyond mere DD.

To reinforce my hope that this doesn’t devolve into another debate about definitions or box labeling, I’m not going to say whether I think Anne and I are in an FLR or to what degree.  Instead, I’ll give a very short overview of where I think we are on some of the aspects identified above.

First, when it comes to decisions around the “why,” “when,” where,” and “how” of spanking discipline, she rules, though we’ve never been that adventurous on any of them.  Regarding the “why”—which I see as the most indicative of her discretion—she can and has punished me for things we never agreed would be spankable. There also have been times she’s given me spankings that were much harder or longer than I thought the offense merited.

Regarding decision-making outside the context of spankings and punishment, it’s a muddier situation. On the “FLR-ish” side, she has done things like telling me when to go to bed or deciding on her own when we will leave a party.  

On a recent trip, she didn’t like that I was speeding and told me that if I got a ticket, I would get a spanking every day that week. 

Now, those were still linked to spanking in that spanking would have been a consequence of contrary decisions on my part. Still she was more or less imposing the rules as she went along and not worrying about whether I agreed.  

On major decisions, there definitely are some areas where I would not defer. For example, a major decision regarding finances. It’s a little theoretical because we haven’t had any real disputes in those areas, but I think it’s fair to say that neither of us see her “tie-breaking” authority to extend into all areas of our relationship.  On the other hand, she has gotten more assertive in making certain decisions that I see as significant, such as deciding we are taking an extensive foreign vacation without asking me for my views about it.

In terms of openly displaying her authority, over the last couple of years she’s gotten less risk-averse when it comes to others knowing. It’s nowhere close to being fully “out” with her authority, but things like spanking in front of an open window in daytime now happen routinely and would not have a few years ago.  Moreover, she didn’t ask for my input on that. Instead, I went to close the window shades at the beginning of a session, and she told me to leave them open.  Full stop.  

Although she hasn’t chosen to tell anyone herself, she has had some open discussions about our DD relationship with a mutual friend who I told, including telling that friend that I would be getting a spanking after I engaged in what Anne saw as domineering conversational behavior at dinner.

Regarding others knowing, she hasn’t told anyone herself. She has hinted at the spanking aspect a couple of times in front of relatives (primarily our daughters), but the hints were pretty vague.  The ebony hairbrush and bath brush are now always on display on our bathroom counter.  (I don’t recall exactly, but I think I started leaving the hairbrush out after a session, and she soon followed by placing the bath brush alongside it.)  We seem to be a long way from anything like a witnessed spanking or open revelations about the details of our DD relationship and, if we were to go in that direction, it very likely would be because of prodding from me.

One problem with any attempt to apply pre-set criteria is that, in my opinion, a lot of the difference between DD and FLR relationships is more qualitative than objective.  It’s a matter of tone and comfort with wielding authority, sometimes sternly. One thing that jumped out at me in the quotes above was the overt insistence on “obedience.”  To me, that goes beyond merely cooperating with her spanking decisions.  It’s about her making a broad range of decisions and expecting them to be carried out, even when he disagrees, including on things that restrict his own autonomy. 

On that factor, I think it’s a mix and kind of a backward one at that. I do think I obey most—though not all—the time when she tells me to do or not do something.  But, she has seldom overtly emphasized “obedience” as an expectation in the way you see in the above quotes. I do see that as perhaps indicating that, if we are in an FLR, it is on the milder end of the spectrum.

What are your thoughts on all this?  Again, I don’t want to get into a bunch of “angels dancing on the heads of pins” definitional debates, but I would be curious to hear whether you see your relationship as something that goes well beyond “mere” DD; something closer to her having real power or authority over you.  Whether yes or no, is her authority and use of it as extensive and open as you want (or think you want)?

I would be particularly interested in hearing from the Disciplinary Wives on how much power they feel they have in the relationship and, as importantly, how much they would like to have. Do you have unlimited authority on the spanking aspects of the relationship? Does your authority extend beyond that? Do you want it to?  Whatever the extent of your authority, are you comfortable with it, or do you want more?

Finally, I’d like to hear perspectives on whether I have been drawing the line around acceptable subject matter in the right place and, if not, where you'd suggest drawing it.  I’m not promising I will change anything, but I would like to get more perspectives, especially since we have several new-ish participants.

Have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 494 - Post-Spanking Discussions

“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”― C.G. Jung

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

 

I hope you all had a great week. Ours was pretty sedate, as we’re finally getting into our groove on the situation around Anne’s recovery.  While getting back to fully normal will take months, we’re more than half-way through the acute phase. 

  

One big surprise was that she became more than a little intent on delivering a spanking earlier this week, though it didn’t actually happen.  I probably wasn’t as supportive as I should have been.  Honestly, it took me by surprise, as at the outset of this little medical adventure we were given information that led me to envision a much flatter recovery curve with her having extremely limited mobility for weeks.  While movement is still very limited, she's moving around more than I anticipated. Still,  I couldn’t figure out logistically how it would work, especially our respective positions.  She didn't seem to have any great ideas either, and her intention seemed to dissipate as the week went on.

So, I sort of wish I had been more openly cooperative and helpfully creative though, again, it was really a matter of me having prepared myself mentally for a multi-month hiatus (on top of the multi-month hiatus we’ve already experienced).

 

On a non-DD oriented note, trees here have been turning colors for a while, yet it's stayed consistently hot.  Finally, this morning there was a distinctly fall-like chill in the air. Finally!

 

I thought we had a good discussion last week, especially given that in the past topics that had a potentially heavy BDSM connection tended to go off the rails.

 

Near the end of the week, a new-ish commenter who goes by “D.D.” left a comment on the topic from two weeks ago.  It’s mainly about tears, but it had some very personal observations  on the feelings that led to him getting past the crying threshold, as well as what I see as an almost perfect illustration of a wife’s transformation into the kind of “no BS” disciplinary partner so many of us want (or say we want) and that a few are lucky to have.  Given that it was on an aging post, I’m afraid most readers wouldn’t find it there.  It also has a tangential relationship to today's topic. So, here’s the full comment:

 

“The first time I cried it wasn't from the intensity of the particular spanking itself but from a culmination of spankings a few weeks after my wife first took me in hand. 

I had been spanked and disciplined a lot in those first few weeks, and I think I felt a loss of control. That combined with the shift in my wife’s demeanor made me feel very unsure about what would happen leading into each time I was disciplined. We went from having arguments where she would eventually get emotional and cry or she would be passive-aggressive to now being very cold, matter of fact and strict. 

Leading into this particular spanking I was balking and trying to get out of it. I had a sense of panic at the point she brought me into the room and it was time to bare myself and bend over the bed. I had just been spanked the day before for something else and this was the second time I was being disciplined for the same issue in a week. I felt frustrated with myself and the frequency of misbehavior. I think deep down I was realizing I wasn’t the mature responsible adult I thought of myself as. Getting disciplined really highlighted that.

 

 

I dont know why but that spanking was the first I really tried to talk my way out of. My wife continued to tell me to bend over and take my punishment and that we would talk after. Eventually, she told me I was now going to be spanked for disobedience in addition to the original reason for the spanking. That got me lowering my pants and bending over. I will never forget the glare from my wife as I finally obeyed. I was already tearing up getting into position and it only took a few swats before I started crying. That didn’t seem to phase my wife. The spanking and scolding were long and severe. 

After the spanking was over, she sat me down and said I was permitted to tell her what was so important before the spanking. I tried to rationalize not getting spanked so much but this conversation is what turned into us formalizing our FLR relationship. My wife made a lot of good points and basically doubled down on the fact that things were going to continue where they were heading if I wanted to be in the relationship. She said the only way I was going to get out of getting disciplined like a bad child was to fix my bad behaviors and attitude and always respect her as the authority in the house. 

In hindsight, I realized another role reversal was that where previously she would cry and break down during an argument and I usually was not emotional and eye rolled, now I was the one crying and remorseful and she was very matter of fact and in control. I have only cried a few times in the many spankings I have gotten but that was the first one.”

 

Wasn’t that great?  Something about the line I highlighted really gets to me, and I think it's a perfect reflection of some of the feelings I was having when I first discovered the DWC and brought it to Anne's attention.

 

Onward to this week’s topic, as suggested by Glenmore: 

"Perhaps a suggestion for a future topic might be post-spanking discussions.

Like yourself and Anne, my wife and I usually discuss the spanking in bed afterwards. Interestingly, I'd say she is the one who broaches the subject first, asking how sore my bottom is and teasing me a bit about how hard it will be to sit, etc. I believe she likes to chat about the spanking because she enjoyed it, is proud of it, and perhaps is still basking in that power exchange which puts her in charge temporarily.

 

In fact, I find that she likes to stay in charge for a day or two after the spanking, bossing me around and showing higher than normal confidence.

 

Another of the subjects that come up is references to someone knowing about my spanking. She might say, "I wonder what your friends would think if they knew I gave you a red butt?"

 

Personally, I enjoy the post-spanking discussions and even her teasing. What type of discussions, if any, do others have post-spanking and does she remain 'in charge' for a time afterwards?”

 

I’ll kick it off.  I’m reading a bit into Glenmore’s second sentence.  Anne and I very frequently do have heartfelt discussions about the DD part of our relationship, in bed, right after a spanking. The part that’s true to our experience and may or may not be implicit is Glenmore’s scenario is that the discussion is both post-spanking and pre-sex. It's seldom that we got right to bed after an evening spanking (and the vast majority of ours are in the late evening).

 

I realize some couples draw a firm line between discipline and sex by never doing the latter immediately after the former.  They want a clear separation between the two, I assume to make sure he takes away one, wholly consistent, non-erotic message away from his spanking. 

Although I appreciate the logic of that position and intellectually it makes perfect sense to me, it still hasn’t been our norm.  We very often do have sex after a disciplinary session.  I’m not sure we ever made a conscious decision about it, and I’m also not sure there is as much “cause and effect” between the two as one might think. Rather, I think the pattern was established in the early years when we had kids and I was traveling constantly, and that the two became linked because there were limited windows of time when we were (a) both physically present; (b) not working or occupied with other things; and (c) the kids were in bed or gone.  So, both sex and spanking happened on those rare occasions when the stars aligned on all three of those factors. 

 

Glenmore’s wife apparently initiates the post-spanking discussions most of the time.  For us, it’s usually, but not always the reverse.  And, when she initiates, it often is with some question or observation about the state of my butt as her hand glides over it in bed.  Like with Glenmore’s wife, there is sometimes a teasing quality about it or something like seeking affirmation that the session was a job well done.

 

Art by KD Pierre

More often, however, it’s me who initiates the discussion.  Again, some of it is habit carried over from our earliest DD experiences. In those early days, I think I was always looking for affirmation that she actually got some enjoyment or fulfillment out of the session, or at the very least that she was comfortable with having given a hard spanking. As with most of us, I had initiated the DD relationship, and she had gone along with the request.  It was difficult for me to judge how the experiment was going for her, and I was always a little afraid she might still think it weird or might have some negative feelings about it. 

Honestly, I think from early on, it was the opposite.  She was not very vocal about her feelings, but I’ve come to suspect that she was beginning to enjoy the power and control, not to mention the opportunity for “payback,” well before she expressly owned up to those feelings.

 

Even today, I’m still doing some of that probing, asking her how she feels about what she just did or about whatever incremental amount of authority or strictness she exercised in conjunction with it. Part of me is still, after 20 years, still a little nervous about whether she’s experiencing it as “too much” or “too weird.” And, twenty years later my concerns on that front probably are not only wrong but the opposite of right.

 

The biggest driver of my desire for post-spanking discussion, however, is it’s when I have the deepest feelings of intimacy and respect for my wife, and I often feel a compelling need to talk about it. Aunt Kay’s line about, “The harder you spank, the more he will love you for it,” is absolutely true for me. 

  

Post-spanking, I want to tell her all about how much I appreciated what she did (even though I hated it as it was happening) and how much I want her to embody that very stern, demanding maternal energy—exactly what D.D. described in the comment above--in the relationship as a whole.  In fact, while it never seems quite to gel fully, a lot of our talk focuses on ramping up the FLR and maternal aspects of the relationship.

 

I’m also way more prone to talking to her post-spanking about what I feel and want and need.  In the period immediately after a spanking, my ego defenses have dropped away to almost nothing.  It's  when I feel the most relaxed, although that isn’t the right word for it. It’s more like “drained” or "depleted," but in a good way.  

 

Artwork by KD Pierre

It’s an odd corollary, but I’ve felt that way a few times after acupuncture, when something about the treatment tapped into some deep pool of stirred up energy and released it without warning.  I’ve also gotten close to it a few times with meditation, but rarely.  After a hard session, things that I would be embarrassed to say in the waking hours come out freely lying in bed in the dark. 

 

It’s no accident that when I first suggested DD, that discussion also took place in bed, in the dark. 

Glenmore asked whether the wives project being “in charge” for some period after the spanking.  I haven’t really noticed that, though I do think the actual content of our post-spanking discussions—which often center on her embracing the FLR and maternal roles more and more fully—may lead to additional strictness or assertiveness.

  

From past discussions on the blog, I get the impression some don’t communicate very much after a spanking. In some cases it sounds like the recipient is left alone to think about what got them in that position.

 

Or, perhaps to pull themselves together after the spanking ordeal. Because a real punishment spanking is often, in fact, an ordeal. 

 

 

Although it’s probably a separate topic, I’ll also mention another form of pre-spanking “discussion,” namely, journaling.  I very often will write something in my DD journal after a spanking, going into more detail about the experience, what led to it, what I’m feeling, and how thankful I am that she took me in hand and hoping she will amp up keeping me under her thumb.

 

Post-spanking journaling and post-spanking face-to-face discussions both help me process what I’m thinking and experiencing. That’s kind of what I’m getting at in choosing the Jung quote at the top of this post.

 

I'll also mention in passing that one scenario I find to blend both terror and fascination is having to tell someone else that I've been spanked right after I've been given one.

 

How about you? What sort of post-spanking discussions do you have, if any?  Whether you’re the spanker or the recipient, do you like discussing things afterward?  What are the common subjects of any post-spanking discussions? Are there things you would like to talk about but don’t?

 

Have a good week.

 

The Club - Meeting 493 - Pegging for Punishment, i.e. Strap-ons Used for Disciplinary Purposes

"Do you want to have an easy life? Then always stay with the herd and lose yourself in the herd." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine was better with respect to keeping to my diet, exercise and drinking goals. Though, of course, there is one day of week left.

 

It was an up and down week on one of my other long-term problems: displays of temper.  It’s election season, of course, and for me that includes an immersion in some small town political issues for the first time.  Community engagement in the Facebook era really does illustrate the best and the worst of our democratic system.  I will say that despite getting provoked pretty badly and baldly at one point, I did better at keeping my cool than I might have in days past.

 

 

That’s despite the fact that while Anne has started issuing spanking threats again—a good sign regarding her medical recovery—given her objective physical condition those threats are pretty empty and will remain so for at least a few more weeks.

 

I'm also disappointed that summer is hanging on tenaciously where we are.  I'd usually have a yard full of Halloween decorations up by now, but with my sprinkler system still on to keep my grass from dying, it's not really workable.  It also inhibits the fall celebratory mood that usually leads me to posting a ton of Halloween inspired naughty pics and artwork.

 

 

I thought we had a good discussion last week.  Thank you to all of you who provided topic suggestions. Some of the comments that didn’t suggest topics also gave me some ideas.  So, I feel like I have enough to work with for a little while, but keep them coming.

 

One request around topic suggestions, however. When I say that I’m out of ideas and could use suggestions, and people are good enough to provide me with some, please DON’T respond to their suggestions during the then-current discussion.  The whole reason I ask for suggestions is to use the results for FUTURE topics.  It can sap the energy from that future discussion if everyone works it over prematurely.  And, after ten years, it’s pretty damn hard to generate continuing energy.

 

Anyway, one topic that seemed to attract a fair bit of attention was “pegging” or using a “strap-on” for disciplinary purposes.  I immediately locked onto it as the topic I wanted to do for this week, not because of the substance but because I thought I might be able to save some time and recycle an old post instead of doing a new one from scratch.

 

 

Thus, I was surprised when I searched all the old posts and found that I’ve never really done a full topic devoted exclusively to strap-ons as disciplinary tools.  It has come up and, in fact, has been discussed pretty thoroughly a few times. But, it almost always happened in the context of a post on “alternative” (to spanking) punishments.

 

What struck me about some of those earlier posts is that I would usually focus in the post on grounding as an exemplary alternative punishment, but strap-ons seemed to grab the most attention in the comments.  That pattern seemed to be on display again last week, when several people, including some of the wives, jumped in with comments or questions after Alan suggested strap-ons as a full topic. And, in looking through my art collection, it certainly does seem to be a prevalent subject.  In fact, I have way more examples than I can use in one post.  In fact, I have to work in this one by Paulo Serpieri because I love his stuff, even if this one doesn't have any facially apparent disciplinary angle.

So, since the interest level seems to be high, let’s do it.

 

As seems to be the case here more often than I like to admit, some of you seem to be a lot more adventurous when it comes to exploring various disciplinary angles than we have been. 

 

We have done strap-on play, but that’s what it was – play.  And, that was several years ago.  Anne has never used it as a disciplinary tool or for role enforcement. In fact, I’m struggling to recall whether we had even started exploring DD the last time we tried it.  I’m fairly sure we had, given how long that’s been, but I don’t think we were very far along in exploring any sort of explicit FLR orientation.

 

I’m very sure that when we did it, I was the one who initiated it, which may be some further evidence that even if I wasn’t consciously pursuing an FLR at that time, some of those dynamics were percolating in my subconscious.

 

I don’t think either of us had a negative reaction to the experience, but since we haven’t done it again in many years, that says a lot about how much it interested us at the time.

 

I think that might be different today, at least it might if the express purpose was either as a form of punishment or if it were being used for role-affirmation purposes. 

 

In either case, I think it would involve Anne consciously trying to make it an unpleasant experience for me, through some combination of the size of the strap-on and the vigorousness of her use of it.

 

 

I also think there would have to be a very substantial change in her usual demeanor, with her taking on a very Top-like, dare I say, masculine persona.

 

 

 When reviewing the old “alternative punishment” posts that led to robust strap-on discussions, I found this from Marisa, one of my favorite former commenters:

 

“I have used a strap-on several times as an alternative punishment and I will probably use it again as necessary. I first got the idea from Elise Sutton's blog during a period Jay was having some serious attitude issues. She is over the top on much of her female superiority themes, but she is right about the strap-on. It is very effective in inducing obedience and submission and the effects are long lasting. The problem with the strap-on for discipline is the time a session takes. If I need to I can administer a sound spanking in ten minutes or less. But punishing him with a strap-on takes an hour or more. Hygiene requires preparing and administering at least one enema which is time consuming. Actually, penetrating a man not used to it takes even more time as does making sure he is getting the message I am sending. Also, Jay at least needs much longer after care when receiving a strap-on compared to a spanking. I don't see the strap-on ever replacing a good spanking but when I need to get his attention it really does work. It also is something that can be used with family or friends in the house. A wife that is looking for an alternative to spanking might try it ,keeping in mind the time issues. If you have the time, it can be a good option.”

 

Al and Alan gave some great comments as well, but I hope they’ll join in this week with their experiences and latest thoughts on them. 

 

So, what are your experiences with pegging?  For those of you who have engaged in it, was it purely for pleasure, or for disciplinary purposes? If disciplinary, what is/was the primary goal?  Punishment? Role affirmation/reinforcement?   Displaying her dominance and his submission? 

 

Something else?  Is it something that generally accompanies a disciplinary spanking or is it separate?

 

 If it is about role affirmation or displaying dominance or conversely submission, was the strap-on used only anally?  

 

If you’re willing, please give us some details.  How did you determine the size to use?  Was there a goal to use something large enough to make it uncomfortable?   

 

 

What is/was her demeanor like?  What was the emotional impact on her?  On him? 

 

For those of you who haven’t done it, is it something you are interested in?  Why or why not? If you did give it a try, do you have a vision for things like the parties’ respective demeanors, how hard or aggressive it should be, etc.?

 

I hope you all have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 492 - Disciplinary Spanking Rationales: Does the "Why" Change the "How" or the "How Much"?

"Why slap them on the wrist with a feather when you can belt them over the head with a sledgehammer?" – Katherine Hepburn

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

 

I hope you all had a good week. Mine had its ups and downs.  I’ve had a lot of quiet time at home, courtesy of Anne’s convalescence after her medical procedure.  I was actually feeling pretty proud of myself, having used the near total downtime and lack of socializing to reverse a developing bad trend where diet and beers were concerned, including going totally dry for more than two weeks.  Then, I got some relief one day and, of course, what happened?  Socializing that led to bad food, too many beers, and a late night.

 

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on one’s perspective, although Anne’s recovery is going well, we’re probably several weeks out from her being able to take me in hand again. 

 

In the meantime . . . on all the other days at home, when I wasn’t over-indulging, I got good and bored and decided to check out the topics and comments from the earliest days of this blog.  I’ve thought a few times about trying to compile the best of the thousands of comments to date into a topically arranged book.  We’ll see whether I actually get around to that, but I did go through about two years’ worth of topics and comments. 

 

It was interesting watching the blog’s development with the benefit of hindsight.  For the first several months, almost everyone was commenting anonymously without using names or initials.  Yet, I was able to quickly identify a few commenters who are still with us today or were until recently.  I’m pretty sure Al (or al.) gets the award for the earliest comment, but Alan was very close behind.  So, thank you guys for sticking with us for so, so long.

 

I’ve also known there were periods when we had more female commenters, but I was a little surprised at just how many we had early on. Or, at least we had quite a few claiming to be women.  Men pretending to be female disciplinarians has been a problem from the beginning.  Honestly, reading through the early entry reminded me how betrayed I felt the first time I had spent months engaging with a “couple” was were eventually revealed to be a male writing under multiple names and assumed genders.

 

Still, I have no doubt that many of putative female commenters were what they claimed. What struck me on this reading was that many of the female commenters seemed pretty far along the spectrum from DD to FLR. Maybe that was because in those early days the blog’s philosophy hadn’t quite gelled and it drew from a wider spectrum of the kink community?  

 

I have believed for a long time that our wives are often turned off by the whole whips and chains Femdom thing, and I still think that is largely true. But, the vibe from several of the early female commenters, as well as some later ones such as “Danielle,” was far enough along the FLR spectrum that I wonder whether I’ve been drawing the line in the wrong place.  Something to think about . . .

 

I was a little surprised by the quality of last week’s discussion.  I had treated it as a mere placeholder, seeking new topic ideas and continuing a discussion of our respective DD origins.  Yet, we ended up with a wide-ranging discussion of origins, face slapping, mercy and its lack, spanking duration, humbling, the terms we use for corporal punishment (spanking, thrashing, etc.), and spanking severity, among others.  We covered a lot of ground for a post with no actual topic. Good job everyone.

 

Unfortunately, I was hoping for a flood of new topic suggestions but instead got a small trickle.  I’m still not experiencing a lot of inspiration, so please serve up other ideas.  In the meantime, I’m going to try to stitch together a couple of suggestions that seem to me to be closely related. 

 

The first articulation came from Tom:

 

“I'm curious whether wives have a set method of punishment or vary it depending on the offense, or just their mood. I have had impromptu spankings where the scolding, punishment, and after-spanking warnings were all over in less than 15 minutes, and of course mostly much longer ones. Almost all are over the knee with a hairbrush, but my wife will add on a switching if a switch is available. I have occasionally had my face slapped for being too slow to cooperate or for responding disrespectfully to an order to get ready.”

 

Donn offered a somewhat different formulation, but I think that it’s still closely related to Tom’s topic to the extent Tom’s focused on the reason for the spanking (“depending on the offense, or just their mood”), and how the wife’s reason or motivation might lead to differences in the way the punishment is carried out.

 

 Here's how Donn formulated the possible topic:

 

 "Several writers have somewhat alluded to this question, but maybe an explicit rephrasing might make a subject for future discussion:

 

Thrashings can be administered for: (1) Punishment towards behavior modification (including overt expressions of mood/general attitude); (2) Inducing and getting expressions of subjugation, submission and respect for wife's authority; or (3) Combinations of both.

 

Do members get all of these kinds of thrashings? More some than others? How does your wife accomplish the "subjugation to surrender" thrashings, and how well do they work, for both husband and wife?"

 

I see where Donn was going, though I do see his three options as more narrow than the actual range of rationales couples have for delivering and receiving “real” spankings.  His first category, behavior modification, is obviously a biggie. 

 

His second category emphasizes bringing about a state of overt submission to her authority, which may or may not be a thing for all our respective couples.  There also is a flip-side to it, i.e. giving her an outlet to express and reinforce her authority or place in the hierarchy.  I think of the two together as “role affirmation/enforcement.”  

 

 Miss E also liked Donn’s formulation but proposed a significant expansion, i.e. stress reduction:

 

“I like the topic as you proposed it Donn. Another aspect to a spanking which could be discussed it whether or not anyone uses them as purely for anxiety/stress relievers. I’d been toying around with the idea and last night I decided to actually give it a try. Pregnancy has had its challenges these past few months and yesterday was a mentally taxing day. Up until this point I have always only spanked for a deserving reason and punishment. But I was so stressed last night I felt I just needed something to hold on to, his submission. So I asked him if I could spank him and made it clear it was not a punishment but something for me. He immediately said yes and was so sweetly submissive before it even began. The entire spanking was slow and intimate but we did build up to a nice intensity and he handled it. I’m asking him tonight but I suspect he was sinking closer to subspace with this one vs a punishment spanking. Regardless it was a nice and needed experience.”

 

 

I’m glad she brought that particular scenario--in which it is the wife's stress that gets relieved--up for discussion because, while various commenters have discussed scenarios in which spankings are used for relief of the spankee’s stress or anxiety, we haven’t really discussed using spankings to alleviate the spanker’s stress or anxiety, other than the obvious case where it is the spankee’s behavior that caused it.  

 

There are, of course, other rationales that might impact the way a spanking is delivered. For example there are “preemptive” or “preventative” spankings that are more about preventing bad behavior than punishing it. Those too are usually postured as being for his benefit but could also have psychological/stress relieving aspects for her as well.

 

So, of the rationales Tom, Donn, Miss E. and I brought up, which result in spankings in your household?  To Tom’s question, does the rationale for the spanking, or her mood regarding it, affect the method of punishment or the way it is carried out?

 

 

In our house, virtually all spankings are aimed more or less directly at punishing or, much more rarely, preventing particular behavior.  While spankings do reflect and reinforce her authority, and do lead me to a deeper acceptance of that authority, I can’t think of an instance in which she’s given one specifically for those purposes.

 

As for Tom’s question, Anne is remarkably binary when it comes to severity and duration.  She’s either on or off, with very little variation regardless of the nature or severity of the offense. 

 

The one aspect that does change a bit, and has changed fairly substantially over the last year, is any accompanying scolding.   

 

 

There is almost always some kind of lecture, but it’s often very proforma and perfunctory.  In the last couple of years, however, she has become more comfortable cutting loose with more passion when she’ really angry about something.  However, I don’t think the heightened anger and more severe scolding result in the intensity of the spanking or the punishment method changing.

 

I hope you all have a great week.