Delayed Post

Today's regularly scheduled post will be delayed.  Probably until next week.

The Club - Meeting #267 - Après Spanking

"Immorality: the morality of those who are having a better time." - H. L. Mencken

Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led relationships.

I hope you had a good week.  Mine was pretty decent, right up until last night.  It sometimes seems like self-control is a finite resource, and once it is used up over the course of a few days, it's just gone and the pendulum swings dramatically in the other direction.  Very disappointing.  A line from the movie Tombstone keeps playing in my head.  "My dear, it appears we may need to re-define the nature of our association."  But, it's not easy re-defining oneself, is it?  As Oscar Wilde observed, "But, then one regrets the loss even of one's worst habits.  Perhaps one regrets them the most. They are such an essential part of one's personality."  

This week's topic is, as  promised, an extension of a discussion kicked off by Alan.  In discussing the role sex plays--or does not play--in his disciplinary arrangement, he observed:

[E]arlier I did experience lovemaking immediately after spanking which I remember as a passionate and intimate experience. My wife feels strongly about this, believing that sex works against the disciplinary effects of a spanking and so I am unlikely to change her mind. But it would be interesting in this community to know how much or little lovemaking is allowed by our wives and girlfriends. From reading I have the impression my situation is pretty common and Helen’s rare, but could be wrong.

 I honestly don't know which approach to sex after a spanking is common and which is rare. I definitely appreciate the view that discipline should be separated from sex, in order to make the discipline more effective and to make sure that discipline really is, well, discipline.

Many men who are attracted to this lifestyle seem to crave "authenticity."  They need it to be real.  Real discipline for real offenses. It's why there really is a danger of "be careful what you wish for; you might get it."  Some wives, like Alan's, decide that there really does need to be a clear separation between discipline and sex.  As I recall, Anna and Peter also fall into that camp.

Although I appreciate the logic of that position and intellectually it makes perfect sense to me, our practice is different.  We almost always do have sex after a disciplinary session, though we seem to be drifting a little in the opposite direction.  It hasn't been so much a conscious choice and, like so many other things in our life, our practice in this area may have been influenced by the presence or absence of children.   I suspect that we often had sex after discipline sessions not because the two were linked together in our minds, but because there were limited times when we were (a) both physically present; (b) not working or occupied with other things; and (c) kids were in bed or gone.  So, both sex and spanking happened on those rare occasions when the stars aligned on all three of those factors.  Now, with longer periods in which the kids are not around, she is free to "take care of business" when the need arises, and it isn't followed by sex as often.  And, like Alan, I do get very into my wife's power and authority after a spanking and feel a strong need to express that with real intimacy.

There also seemed to be a current in the comments last week of some women simply not being turned on after a spanking.  Quite the opposite.  His behavior has pissed her off, the spanking is serious business, so sex is simply not an option for her at that time.

And, then there are those women who flat-out get aroused by the whole thing, whether by the actual act of punishing their husband in this undoubtedly intimate way or by exercising their own power.

Which approach to sex governs your relationship?

 

The Club - Meeting #266 - All Dressed Up . . .

"I can take care of my enemies, but Lord protect me from my friends."  -- Voltaire

Hi all.  I hope you had a great week.  It was an interesting one, on all sorts of levels.  The discussion was interesting, though probably a good reminder to me that, while I reserve the right to post about politics when I feel the need, it probably won't be something I do very often.  And, when I need that outlet, KD's blog almost always serves as one.  Thanks again to him for letting me borrow his artwork.  

Regarding the actual topic, ZM wins the prize for most astute observation: "Having said all this, probably most of us are just fooling ourselves anyway, because our very perceptive offspring probably can put together the subtle clues and may be much more aware of our activities than we think they are!" Well said and almost undoubtedly true.

As is all too often the case, I find myself totally worn out on this beautiful Saturday morning, and while it is mostly my fault, not entirely.  Unless peer pressure is just never an excuse and I must be 100% resistant to temptation all the time.  

As usual, it all comes down to me liking alcohol just a little too much, and having too many friends who fit in that same category.  I had some mid-week business travel, culminating in a business dinner.  Interestingly, it began with all of us refusing the bread basket at the beginning of the meal based on our low-carb diets, and ended with us demolishing that bowl, and carbs with our dinners, and then dessert!  Along with a bottle of wine.  I suspect sometimes that my fondness for booze really is just another aspect of sugar addiction, and they certainly seem to at least be mutually enforcing.  Unfortunately, the night didn't end there, as I went back to the hotel with the intention of having "a" nightcap.  Then, a work colleague called regarding something we needed to cover.  She too was in a hotel bar, and we ended up having real drinks "together" in the virtual world of a cellphone conversation separated by several hundred miles.  I had to fly again the next day, getting an unanticipated upgrade to First Class, and the flight attendants seemed particularly attentive in refilling my glass.  The net result was total exhaustion and, frankly, one of those "why the fuck do I keep doing this to myself" moments of self-awareness in which I promised to get on the right track and seriously pondered getting started on a belated Sober September, which I understand is kind of a "thing" these days.  And, I really meant to do it.  Then, my wife set up an an unanticipated get together with another couple, at an Oktoberfest of all things, and I'm just not wired to stay perfectly sober when surrounded by a bunch of people wearing lederhosen and carrying tankards of good beer.  Hence, the Calvin & Hobbes cartoon and the qoute from Voltaire.   But, I really do need to pick myself up, dust myself off, and try once more to get my shit together.

Perhaps because my mind is basically jello after several days of abusing myself, but also because finding topics remains challenging, this week's topic is probably one some will find a little boring, but I just can't think of anything more profound or worth covering right now.  And, as is often the case, comments from one week help feed the beast for a subsequent week.  A couple of weeks ago we got off-topic to a discussion of canes (and I have since bought several, some of which may get tried out this weekend).  TommyTucker observed:

 

"When C canes she invariably dresses in a sleeveless dress or shirt because she has found that a completely bare right arm enables her to swing that cane with no interference from loose clothing. I personally find it very erotic when C dresses in a sleeveless dress on a normal day or evening, because I am reminded of those occasions when that bare right arm has come down hard on me."

Similarly addressing the issue topic of spanking-devoted dressing up by our Disciplinary Wives, ZM discussed his wife's adoption of a camouflage shirt as her signal that a spanking was coming:

"The camouflage shirt was her idea, and it flowed out of us making this an extended boot camp time where she would intentionally be more demanding and significantly raise her expectations. The idea was to make a big deal out of small details so that I would become more conscientious, and hopefully as I learned to take care of small things, some big things would improve as well. We were joking about her being the drill sergeant, and she was like "I have just the thing to wear!"

Once we had ascribed special meaning to that shirt, it suddenly became a very clear signalling device. This has been especially useful during these summer months, when our house has been full. If she walks in the room wearing that shirt, nobody else will notice in the least, but for me, time stops. I then know that I have dome something wrong and she has decided to punish me as soon as we are alone. One additional "benefit" (though I am not really sure it is positive), is that once she puts on the shirt, she is also basically committed because she knows she sent the signal."

For women more than men, clothing really seems to hide as much as it reveals,

 and you certainly cannot judge a book by its cover.

We really don't have any such ritual, though it has been on my mind a lot since ZM brought up the camouflage shirt.  As was the case with for some of us with certain tools, certain aspects of Domestic Discipline do seem to take on a ritualistic significance, and I can see how dressing a certain way could become significant in that way.  And, while we don't really incorporate a particular kind of dressing up into our Domestic Discipline activities, I have noted that when my wife is having particular success in becoming more dominant, her daily dress does become more professional and structured, which I personally love.

Do the Disciplinary Wives adopt any special outfit, whether to signal a spanking is coming or for purposes of carrying out the disciplinary event? Do you find the ebbs and flows of disciplinary dominance are reflected in your partner's dress?

DCC Meeting #265 - Implements, The Final Hiding

“We gather to mourn the passing of American greatness — the real thing, not cheap rhetoric from men who will never come near the sacrifice, those that live lives of comfort and privilege while he suffered and served. America does not boast because she has no need to. The America of John McCain has no need to be made great again because America was always great.” – Meghan McCain

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or want to be in, Domestic Discipline or Wife Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.  Mine began with a bit of remote, though genuine, mourning.  I was always a huge fan of John McCain.  He was one of my political heroes for many years, which is why it pained me so much not to vote for him in the general election in 2008.  I just couldn't bring myself to cast a vote to put Palin anywhere near the White House.

But, though I was disappointed in McCain as a candidate, he remained a role model for me as a person.  So, I do genuinely mourn his loss, along with the loss of a view of politics that honored statesmanship over tribalism.  He really does seem to be virtually the last of an era of politicians who would, at least every once in a while, elevate the national interest over party politics.  And, at least he made up the whole Palin thing to me in the end by not inviting her to the funeral!  

Now, on to less profound thoughts, and last week's "implements" topic certainly fits.  As dry and boring as a conversation about spanking implements can be, we did with last week's topic what we could.  At least a few people talked about the actual topic, which was whether particular implements were associated with particular emotional responses, but I guess it was inevitable that much of the conversation would drift into each implement's respective merits as a correction tool. Perhaps that collective advice was, at a minimum, helpful for any DD newbies who might have been visiting here last week.

This week's topic extends our discussion about implements, but looks at the opposite end of the temporal DD spectrum, focusing on those who have been in DD a long time.  A very long time.  It also sort of ties into the above discussion about funerals and the passing of our elders, though definitely a less serious and somber aspect of that theme  I'll illustrate the topic with this cartoon by our own KD Pierre.  I hope he doesn't mind me plundering his works--which you can find at http://mattmansfigures.homestead.com/cartstart.html--without his advance consent, but I had the inspiration for this topic this morning and didn't have time to ask him.

Most of us put a lot of thought and planning into making sure our kids don't find out about our Domestic Discipline practices, but have you but that same kind of thought and planning into making sure they don't find out about it after you pass? Or, do you even care if they find out once you're gone?  Are you horrified, amused, or just plain uninterested at what such discovery might mean for your legacy?  Perhaps it's not an issue for those whose DD "tools of the trade" are confined to brushes and kitchen spoons, but what about those with a more exotic collection?  Have you made any arrangements to ensure your family and friends won't stumble across your DD activities when they are divvying up your stuff after the funeral?

We once did have such a plan, though it is so outdated now that I doubt it would actually work if we both passed without warning.  I have talked about the fact that there is one person who knows about our DD lifestyle; a mutual friend I told about it some time ago.  When I told her about our activities, she asked how we kept my wife's tools hidden, and I told her we keep them in a locked chest, along with some other adult "novelties."  She's a very smart lady, and she asked whether we had a plan in place to get rid of that chest if the worst should happen.  We didn't, and she volunteered to take possession and get rid of it if something should happen to us. That would, of course, involve making such arrangements in a will, and therein lies the gap in my plan.  We do have a will, but it's outdated and I haven't added anything dealing with disposal of our little adult toy collection.  Also, over time I migrated much of the collection to a locked suitcase, but I also have left other tools in more accessible places where they would inevitably be found if someone goes pawing through all our stuff after we're gone. As things stand, if something were to happen to us unexpectedly, I have little doubt that family and friends inevitably will find the evidence of our extracurricular activities, though they may be left scratching their heads about who was spanking whom.  Though, even that might be revealed if anyone were to find old written journal entries, forms we've used for weekly reports, etc.

Also, part of me hates the thought that this thing that has meant so much to us would just be tossed aside literally, in a locked box bound for the garbage dump, after we're gone.  Helen talked last week about wishing she had the brush her mother used on her and her brothers, and Anna talked about using a belt that came from Peter's grandfather (though she didn't say whether the belt was ever used for anything more than holding up his pants).  The idea of such inter-generational disciplinary use of high-quality tools--in which they become kind of a kinky family heirloom--is something I find both amusing and satisfying.  Further, I have invested a hell of a lot of money into some really nice paddles and straps over the years, and I hate to think about them being thrown into some landfill.

How about you? Have you taken any steps to ensure your spanking anonymity even after death?  A morbid topic to be sure, but given that most of our little community seems to be over 50, one that deserves some thought and attention, since you just never know when your own time is up.

With that comforting thought, have a great week.

 
  

The Club - Meeting #264 - Implements

Hi all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Wife Led relationships.  

I hope you all enjoyed last week's discussion. Helen's recounting of car spanking interrupted was a good illustration of one of the points I was mulling with that post, namely whether an effort to keep friends for family members from knowing about our DD activities might inadvertently expose them to being discovered by someone else, such as a neighbor or, in Helen and Andy's case, a remarkably forgiving police officer.  (Though as someone whose biggest pet peeve in life is slow drivers in the left-hand lane, I sympathize with Andy.)

The discussion then diverged to the merits of the cane.  It's interesting how much people are into that particular instrument, or at least curious about it.  I have a post from 2014 entitled Caning Tips and Methods, which is always among the top 4 or 5 in all-time popularity.  Ironic, given the problems my wife has had using it effectively.  I'm pretty sure it is among her top two least favorite instruments.  It's interesting the extent to which different instruments evoke different emotional responses.  Alan noted: "Its my impression that many women prefer to use a cane or maybe a strap even though they may actually employ a brush or paddle regularly because that is what works for their boyfriend or husband. Erotically the cane does very little for me but my wife loves the sound it makes and the impact. I also experience punishment with the cane differently than with other instruments. There is much less of the "naughty boy" feeling and more the disobedient or misbehaving husband feeling to it."

Does it work that way for you?  Do particular instruments evoke particular emotional responses, positive or negative? And, are there some you wish were used more and others less? 

While I am not a Brit and, as I said I've never been subjected to an effective caning, there is something about the cane that really does get a response from me.  The whole caned schoolboy thing is such an iconic spanking image.

Same with the belt.  Probably because of some early childhood experiences, the belt evokes a feeling of vulnerability and has a very "parental" vibe.  Until recently, I didn't consider it to be a very effective instrument.  Then I bought a "gun belt," which is basically a leather belt made for sportsmen or others to carry a holstered handgun.  Because of the weight they need to support, the leather is very thick and stiff.  I bought it because I was looking for an instrument we could take with us on trips without giving the TSA guys a thrill.  She has used it on me one time, and it definitely gets the job done.

I own several paddles, but over time I've become a lot less enamored of them.  As I've written about a few times, lately I feel the larger, thuddier paddles are almost "too hard."  The pain hits like a lightning bolt and, instead of giving in to the discipline, the paddle puts me in a very resistant head space.  I also wonder whether my butt has just gotten more sensitive over time, as I swear the spankings just hurt way more now than they did a few years ago. Though, she may just be a much less forgiving spanker now than in the past.  While I don't really love paddles anymore, I probably will keep buying them, as I have a thing for craftsmanship and I still admire the look of a finely crafted paddle made from some exotic, highly grained wood.

For pure effectiveness, I have to go with the leather strap, though it doesn't really give rise to strong emotions for me.

To me, the strap has just the right balance of short and long-term severity.  Depending on how strong she swings, there can be some warm up that gets me in the right, compliant mindset, but then she can really let loose with a very, very painful thrashing.  As I've become more convinced that duration is more effective than pure pain from each swat, the strap has emerged as my personal "favorite" for a truly effective overall punishment.

Now, based on what she uses the most, I think my wife likes the strap but really gravitates toward paddles.  I've never asked her whether there is a particular instrument that evokes a strong emotional response.

Interestingly, one instrument that I think is extremely effective is one she doesn't seem to go to very often, namely the bath brush.

For severity, it is far, far better than any hair brush and rivals many of our paddles.  It also seems to be hard to beat for sheer versatility.  It can be used effectively in any position, including OTK, which isn't really true of a strap or belt or of many paddles.  Also, unlike most really effective instruments, it can be left out in plain sight.  Yet, for whatever reason, she doesn't seem to think of it as a "go to" spanking instrument.

How about you? What instruments get a strong emotional response out of you or your spouse or, perhaps, bring back strong memories of spankings past?

Have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 263 - Woodsheds, Cars & Other "Private" Places

"Injustice is relatively easy to bear; it is justice that hurts." ~H.L. Mencken

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Wife Led relationships.  

I hope you all enjoyed last week's discussion.  A wide variety of opinions were voiced, though it is interesting how few of them saw "undeserved punishment" as a major problem.  Though the reasoning differed.  For some, it was not much issue as a practical matter, because they hadn't been subjected to punishments that weren't, in fact, deserved.  Others looked at the question more as a matter of balancing the scales, recognizing that even if every once in a while she might make a mistake in exercising her power, there are far more times when we get away with something that merited a good hard session with the paddle, strap or brush.  KD emphasized consenting on a spanking-by-spanking basis, thereby negating the possibility of an undeserved spanking.  Others saw consent as being to the DD relationship and not to each spanking and saw any resistance as undermining her authority.  Interestingly, there was very little concern voiced over the severity of a spanking being out of proportion to the offense. 

Other than a good conversation here on the blog, last week was fairly boring.  No travel.  No significant behavioral problems.  This upcoming week could be more "eventful."   The "semi-" qualifier on our semi-empty nesting status will be mostly removed for a substantial block of time.  Hopefully substantial enough for us to make up the ground we lost over the last few weeks and for her to regain the momentum she was building before her progress was interrupted.  I definitely need it.  While last week wasn't too bad, my behavior has been pretty out of control the last couple of months, and it's definitely been taking a toll. Workouts have been sporadic.  Exercise and meditation are prerequisites to any hope of sleep, and I haven't been doing either with any regularity.  Travel always seems to result in poor dietary choices and even more disturbed sleep patterns.  It all adds up.  As have the tally of offenses meriting a good, hard spanking!  Once the kids depart and we have the house back to ourselves, it is time for a serious "personal improvement" effort along the lines of the one ZM's wife has been helping him with.

Having our empty-nester status temporarily revoked did get us to talking about how to preserve momentum next time it happens.  Some options included:

• While there may be times a spanking must be delayed, other forms of punishment are available and can be imposed immediately.  Grounding, chores, etc.  Corner time also is an option, if she sense me to an isolated room with a locked door, such as the bathroom.
• She could send the kids on errand, such as a run to the grocery store to pick up a missing ingredient for the nightly dinner.  Then, take care of business quickly but severely while they are out. 
• She and I could go off-site ourselves.  One somewhat risque possibility I thought of was meeting at my office shortly after working hours, when most of the residents of our office building have left for the day.  My office won't accommodate a private spanking, but what about taking care of it in our car in a private corner of our underground parking lot?
• I've also been contemplating a shed-like addition to our existing garage. It could be accessed from the backyard, and would be isolated enough that the kids would be unlikely to hear anything if she took me out there for a quick spanking after they were in bed.

What steps have you resorted to in order to try to get some privacy for a well-deserved spanking?  Has it included being spanked in a car?

Or perhaps in a garage or barn out of earshot of the rest of the family?

 As I was contemplating building our little private "woodshed," it occurred to me that in making it less likely that our kids might overhear a spanking, we might inadvertently make it more likely that our neighbors or someone walking by might overhear one.  Perhaps, but maybe it's a risk we should take if we really want to keep things going and progressing.

I hope you all have a great week.

Late Posting

Hi all.  I'm tied up on some things this morning and will be post either late in the day or on Sunday.  Have a great Saturday

The Club - Meeting 262 - Undeserved Punishment

We need to understand the difference between discipline and punishment. Punishment is what you do to someone; discipline is what you do for someone. - Zig Ziglar

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple's Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women in, or who would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led relationships.  I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was another in which my bad behavior left me in a tired and cranky state.  My wife had set a punishment for Thursday, and I knew I deserved one.

Fortunately for my ass but unfortunately for my long-term emotional health and balance, one of our kids stayed home unexpectedly.

    

As I've said, I am learning that "empty-nesting" is more a process than an event. Perhaps at some point in the future, the presence of others will not result in a well-deserved spanking being deferred, let alone forgone, but that's not where we are right now with respect to being "out."

So, I may have once again gotten out of a well-deserved punishment.  But, let's take this week's topic in the opposite direction.  We've talked about "undeserved" punishment before, but it's been a couple of years, and it came up in a comment from KD yesterday.  (I'm feeling lazy and have some other things going on today, so the content below is pretty close to a verbatim ripoff of our last discussion of this topic.  It's not plagiarism if I'm copying myself, right?) 

Have you ever been given a disciplinary spanking for something you felt you didn't deserve?  Perhaps "caught" doing something you really didn't do? Or someone else was the real offender? Or, maybe you did something that wasn't contrary to any clearly set rule, but it was something that annoyed or aggravated your HoH, so they disciplined you for it unexpectedly?  In those circumstances, how did you react?  How did it make you feel?  Humbled?  Resentful?  Respectful?

I can't think of a circumstance where I have been punished for something I really didn't do or something that I didn't know was a problem for her.  The closest I can think of is a situation where I repeatedly left a chore undone, or done half-assed, and she finally had enough, ordered a spanking, and delivered a very, very hard one that evening.  It was not that it was "undeserved" per se, but this chore was not so much something assigned to me under some express rule, but something I have just always done.  Moreover, giving  a very hard spanking for not doing a chore was not a direction either of us had taken things in up until that point.  So, perhaps the right word is "unexpected" as opposed to "undeserved."  There was also one time when I expected a fairly light "maintenance" session, but what I got was a full-blown punishment spanking.  In both cases, there was perhaps some resentment as I pulled by pants up over my very sore bottom that night, but there was also an offsetting respect.  Admiration is another good word to describe it.  I felt proud of her for addressing a situation that was pissing her off, and doing it strongly and decisively.  That reaction was one indication I had that we might have approached a fork in the road, going from something purely DD to something more FLR-oriented, with her setting the tone and direction and taking action where she thought appropriate, not just to address a violation of some rule we had expressly agreed to.

It speaks very well of my wife that in well over a decade in this lifestyle, I really can't think of an instance in which she was really "wrong" to spank me.  If anything, perhaps it indicates she is letting me get away with too much too often! 

I don't disagree with anything KD observed about the potential for "tops" in a power exchange relationship to abuse their authority.  I definitely don't think these power sharing relationships are without risk, particularly if the "Top" isn't a well balanced and well meaning person. And, no one has an obligation to submit to such a person. Though, in that situation, you have to ask why you are in any relationship with such a person, let alone a DD relationship.  The bottomline for me is these relationships, like any other, require common sense, and the "right" approach is seldom binary. If a Top makes a mistake now and then or there is a disagreement about whether discipline was earned, that is probably to be expected every once in a while. Each "bottom" has to figure out whether to submit in those circumstances, recognizing that (a) the top may be wrong, but it's also possible the bottom is the party in the wrong and just doesn't have that perspective in the moment; and (b) refusing to submit may undermine her confidence and the relationship as a whole. So, while the top has a responsibility to think hard about when and when not to discipline, the same applies to the "bottom" regarding whether to refuse to comply.  KD's perspective follows from a very bad experience, and I totally understand why he is concerned about the possibility of a Top acting abusively.  I, on the other hand, can truthfully say that on the rare occasions that my wife and I have had a really serious fight, at the time I was 100% sure I was right, but often a few days later I would start to see things from her perspective and realize that I had been a dick.  In those cases, I could have done real damage to our overall DD relationship had I refused an "undeserved" spanking.

It also would be more than a little disingenuous for me to get too upset about being punished for something I didn't deserve given that, as this week illustrates, on balance I have engaged in way more bad behavior that has gone unpunished that I should not have gotten away with.  So, being punished where not strictly deserved could be looked at as just a balancing of the accounts.

I hope you all have a great weekend.

Club Meeting #261 - You Have to Want It

“Commitment is a word invented in our abstract modernity to signify the absence of any real motives in the soul for moral dedication.” – Allan Bloom

Hi all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Wife Led relationships.

Sorry for the late posting.  I had a short Saturday diversion that turned into a very long one. Earlier this year, I had many months of working weekends.  It's nice, though a little disconcerting, to go into a Saturday without a bunch of work left over from the week.  The late posting may become the new norm, by the way.  Sometimes these posts take longer than you'd think, and I sometimes watch the better part of my morning slip away.  Yet, almost no one posts on Saturday anyway.  So, I may start pushing the posting into the afternoon or evening. We'll play it by ear.

Last week, we talked a little bit about how to judge effectiveness.  That led, perhaps inevitably, into a discussion about the extent to which changed behavior is only part of what we mean by "effective."  As I said in reply to ZM, when we first started DD and for several years thereafter, I didn't really appreciate the "communicative" aspect of DD. Oh, I got that it took great communication to make it work, but it took me a while to really get that the spanking itself is a form of both communicating about a problem and of addressing it. By that standard, it is WAY more effective than the communication we see in many vanilla marriages.  How many marriages fail because they simply drift into both silence and inaction?  One party, or both, may be very unhappy and regularly annoyed, but after a while it just becomes easier to stay silent. So, they do, and from there it's all downhill.  I recently read a book that described the results of such passivity: "Every single voluntarily unprocessed and uncomprehended and ignored reason for marital failure will compound and conspire. . . . All she—he—they—or we—must do to ensure such an outcome is nothing: don’t notice, don’t react, don’t attend, don’t discuss, don’t consider, don’t work for peace, don’t take responsibility. Don’t confront the chaos and turn it into order—just wait for the chaos to rise up and engulf you instead." Disciplinary Wives who are on their game do notice, do react, do attend, do discuss and, most importantly, they make HIM take responsibility.  Even if his behavior remains less than perfect, DD ensures the channels of communication remain open, at least from her to him. 

In discussing effectiveness, both ZM and Helen brought up the subject of motivation and commitment.  Not hers -- his.  As ZM put it: "Just looking at outcome isn't necessarily the answer. While ideally discipline would result in immediate and permanent change, some habits, attitudes, or behaviors are very entrenched and may take a significant amount of time to change, and that is of course assuming that the person even truly wants to change."  Similarly, Helen observed: "As others have mentioned, another crucial factor is that the husband has to want to change the behavior. He can want to because it is good for him (like losing weight), he can want to because it helps him achieve his values (such as stopping swearing), he can want to because it pleases his Disciplinary Wife (such as remembering to take out the garbage). But if he thinks there is nothing wrong with the behavior and he shouldn't be punished for it, then being consistently caught and severely punished is probably not going to be enough to be effective."

That all makes sense.  Regardless of severity or certainty of punishment, we're going to do a better of changing our own behavior if we too want it to change; the fantasy of a dominant wife imposing on us only those rules she personally wants notwithstanding.  In our reality, most of the rules my wife imposes were arrived at more or less jointly.  

But, there definitely are some that she cares about more than I do.  Or, at least, she doesn't balance pros and cons in the same way I do. The best example is probably drinking.  We both generally agree that over-consumption of alcohol has been an ongoing problem for me, and it does definitely cause some issues from time to time.  But, deep down inside, I'm not really ready to give up the benefits it provides with respect to career development and, frankly, I like socializing and talking and alcohol is my set's social lubricant of choice.  As de Sade put it: “Conversation, like certain portions of the anatomy, always runs more smoothly when lubricated.”  So, when push comes to shove, she may command no more than two drinks, but if the guy across the table wants a third, I'm probably going to have a third. 

 On the other hand, we do have success when she addresses things like respect or work habits.  Because, I do want her to feel respected, and her rising feeling of her own power and authority are attractive and motivating to me.  

And, I really do want and need to elevate my game at work giving some of the challenges that are coming up.

 Do these examples resonate with you?  Are there some areas where DD has proven particularly effective because her desire for change is in alignment with your own?  Are there others where DD has not been effective, in whole or in part because the change she is trying to bring about is something that you are, deep down inside, just not motivated to do or, worse yet, downright resistant to changing? In those circumstances, has she found ways to motivate you to change anyway?

Have a great week. 

The Club -- Meeting #260 -- Am I Getting Through to You?

Discipline yourself and others won't need to. - John Wooden

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led marriages.

First off, welcome to Sherri, Susan G. and Jeanne.  It's great to have more Disciplinary Wife participation.  I hope you will continue to chime and will also tell us all a little more about your DD or Wife Led relationships.

Well, last week's discussions were . . . what's the right word . . . wide-ranging.  There's nothing wrong with that and, in fact, many things are good about it.  As I've said before, the whole topical format can seem very constraining sometimes, so I usually not only don't have a problem with things deviating from the suggested topic but it actually can yield a more interesting conversation and takes some pressure off me as the blog owner.  The general line for me is, does this deviation from the topic have a damn thing to do with Domestic Discipline or FLR relationships, or is it one more instance of someone trying to hijack the blog for their own purposes?  And, I'll sometimes even ignore that line if the conversation is interesting enough.  Though, we all have different views on what is interesting, don't we?  The wonderful thing about Blogger and all the other blogging and web developer tools that are out there is anyone can talk about anything they want any time -- on their own blog.  All they have to do is put in some time and effort.

There have been a couple of threads over the last two or three weeks that I want to come up with some kind of topic around, though I need to think it through more.  We had a discussion back in January about the "maternal" aspects of Domestic Discipline and the extent to which it brings out the unruly boy in some of us.  I feel like the topic deserves a more thorough treatment than it got last time, and it does keep coming up.  So, if anyone can think of an interesting angle on it, let me know and I'll consider it.  I also liked the point ZM raised about  there not necessarily being a conflict between the erotic side and the disciplinary side of domestic discipline and that the former might actually fuel the latter but without detracting from the disciplinary aspect. I need to think about that more.

In the meantime, Helen raised the following topic suggestion:   "What strategies does the disciplinary couple employ to determine the effectiveness of punishments?  I think there may be many strategies we can share with each other. For instance, Andy and I have a rule that if the behavior is repeated, the punishment must be harsher because it obviously didn't "take" the first time. I also do a Q&A with him during the spanking that demonstrates his willingness to improve his behavior. And I also am very observant when I let Andy off my lap: If there is any resentful body language, or a grunt of disagreement,  or the hint of an erection, back over he goes! His contriteness must be complete."

Let's go with that as this week's topic.  I don't have anything all that interesting or novel to say about it myself.  In the early days, and to some extent through to today, our focus was on making punishments hard enough to match the crime, but not necessarily on assessing them after the fact. 

I've talked before about how in the early days we would assign a minimum number of swats for particular offenses, to guarantee I did not get off easy. I guess our most used post-spanking assessment tool is the journal I share with her, which often shares thoughts on previous sessions.

Other thoughts?  What do you to assess the effectiveness of your disciplinary procedures or what do you incorporate to make sure they are, in fact, effective at getting your message across?

Have a great week!

The Club - Agenda for Meeting 259 - Anticipation and Reminders

"Wisdom consists of the anticipation of consequences." - Norman Cousins

Hello all.  I hope you had a great week.  Mine was busy, which you may have discerned from my lack of participation.  Unfortunately, I was distracted by other things, both domestic and foreign.  Who would have thought that foreign relations could provide lessons for misbehaving husbands.  If she gets perturbed after a bad self-report and orders an especially hard spanking to deal with it, just say, “Oh, I’m sorry Ma’am.  I misspoke.  I meant to say my behavior wasn’t bad. . . .” 

 We certainly had a lot of volume last week.  Counting my own handful, we ended up with 115 comments, which may be a record though I have not gone back through old posts to confirm that. Of course, the volume gets higher as things drift away from the topic or even the theme of the blog, which is disciplinary relationships, not erotic spankings.  Near the end, there even seemed to be a proposition on the table that a spanking is “effective” if it is erotically arousing.  Uh, no. Not if we are talking about disciplinary spankings.  Those may involve an erotic response but that certainly is not the goal let alone how one might assess their effectiveness.  In fact, as Helen and Alan both talked about in terms of severity, if he is still aroused after the spanking gets going, then what is happening probably either isn’t a disciplinary spanking or it’s a pretty ineffective one.  

So, all in all it was a great discussion, though I do want to emphasize that the blog’s theme is not going to drift into a general “spanko” venue.  There are plenty of those around, so the focus here is going to be remain on real couples in real disciplinary relationships.  So, if you find yourself constantly leading your comment with, “We aren’t in a DD relationship and our spankings are all erotic . . .” you may be in the wrong room.

I also do take issue with some of the comments on negative versus positive reinforcement.  There is no shortage of research showing that people will do more to avoid a negative outcome than to gain a positive outcome of equal "value."  One study after another backs that up, while as far as I know there is a real shortage of evidence backing up this position that having high self-esteem results in achievement, as opposed to high achievement being the basis for genuine self-esteem.  (Here is a nice summary of the history of the self-esteem fad in education and the lack of evidence supporting it:  https://www.thecut.com/2017/05/self-esteem-grit-do-they-really-help.html.)  In fact, we have an entire generation that seems to prove the contrary.  The Millennials have to be hands-down the least impressive generation in a hundred years, but they certainly aren't lacking in unearned self-esteem.  My favorite illustration of this phenomenon of runaway but unearned Millennial self-confidence can be found in this hilarious YouTube video entitled Job Interview With a Millennial:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo0KjdDJr1c. 

Our summer of more open dominance emphasizing her disciplinary role may be taking a little pause.  We had a few weeks with no kids around, but that won’t be true for the next few weeks.  We’re actively exploring how to keep things going, however, and I hope we don’t lose all momentum.  If anyone has tips on how we might go about doing that, I’d love to hear them.  But, the reality may be more time spent “anticipating” spankings than actually getting them.  And, that is this week’s topic.  Last week, ZM observed: 

One thing that my wife already does a little, but could do much more of is to use the time leading up to the punishment to build it up in my mind. At least for us, punishments seldom occur immediately after infractions because of logistics. Since so many of the feelings and emotions of punishments naturally occur during the time leading up to a punishment, she could really amplify those feelings by reminding me in different ways what is to come and to set the stage. I.e. "let's sit and have coffee, since you will not be wanting to sit for quite some time" or "I'm sure you feel sorry, but I need to see tears streaming down your cheeks and hear sobbing before I can move on."

I go back and forth about the ideal role of anticipation.  On one hand, I do believe that immediate consequences are best when it comes to modifying behavior.  Yet, I also do believe there is a value in giving him time to think about what he did and to really mull over the upcoming consequence.

 For me, the ideal would probably be same day, but with enough time between the spanking being ordered and it being carried out that I think hard about what is coming.  As ZM points out, she can help that anticipation build via dropping little “reminders.”  And, even an immediate spanking does not preclude doing things to ramp up the anticipation.

 Most, though not all, of my wife’s little reminders happen by text.  I may be sitting in my office, and I’ll receive a text saying, “Enjoy sitting today.  You won’t be enjoying it after you get home this evening.” How does your wife remind you that you have a session coming up?  How does she help ramp up the anxiety and anticipation surrounding it, if at all.  

 

I hope you all have a great week.