Does Good Behavior Cancel Bad, and Does Her Bad Behavior Ever Cancel His? (Club Meeting 556)

“Mutability of temper and inconsistency with ourselves is the greatest weakness of human nature.” - Joseph Addison

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are int, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship of the type advocated in the now defunct Disciplinary Wives Club (archived copy in the Links I Like list below right).

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine was okay physically, with some progress on the recovery front, but it also was disappointing to have it emphasized how slow it will be. I ended up having to see my surgeon to have something checked out. Everything was OK, but I asked her whether, after my checkup next week, I can expect to move at least toward some weight-bearing.  Got an instantaneous, unequivocal "no".  Sigh . . . 

 

Accepting that this is going to be a very slow, very drawn out process is hard and resembles a bit the process of accepting that a spanking is going to happen, no matter how much you may want it not to, as discussed by a few of us near the end of last week's discussion.  Check it out.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I asked for topic ideas. Greg responded with this:

 

“Should a spanking be cancelled by good behaviour?

Should a spanking be cancelled by bad behaviour by the wife?

 

Both of these were allowed recently by my wife during a weekly maintenance.

 

Though I do believe that the answer should be a definite NO (particularly for maintenance), I did not contradict her because she does have the right to decide on all punishments.

 

We had had a busy week and there was an argument just before our “Report Card” meeting. She admitted that she was at fault and therefore wasn’t going to give the maintenance spanking. She acknowledged that I had been very good all week as well, so a spanking wasn’t needed.

 

In my opinion, a maintenance spanking is designed to be a reminder, even if there have been no offences. This should always happen. And if the wife has done something wrong, that is irrelevant to any behaviour by the husband. We haven’t agreed to punishments for her. The husband needs to be held accountable each and every time.

 

Any thoughts?”

 

Greg’s two scenarios are different aspects of an issue we’ve explored many times in various forms, namely, when does/should fairness trump consistency?

 

There’s probably not a “one size fits all” answer to his first question, i.e. should a spanking be cancelled by good behavior?  The answer probably is going to be different depending on where each couple sets the bar regarding the behavior they are trying to address. Some have a "zero tolerance" approach.  For others, that would be seen as overkill.

 

Also, I think there are two possible interpretations of Greg’s question.  One might be, if there has been some (minor) screw up but the husband’s behavior has otherwise been exemplary, does the especially good behavior offset the bad?

 

For us, I think the answer would mostly be no, but it depends on the circumstances.  Anne has never been one to punish for every little thing.  So, if my attitude and behavior have been especially good, she’s probably going to let a minor incident slide.

 

On the other hand, there are some items that I may see a minor, and even she might see as minor in isolation, but in aggregate she’s become pissed about them and intends to nip them in the bud.  In those cases, even if it’s something that hasn’t happened in a while, and even if my behavior has been exemplary otherwise, that good behavior is unlikely to negate the behavior she’s determined to wipe out.

 

The other angle on Greg’s first scenario would be the maintenance spanking that his comment referenced.  Should good behavior cancel a scheduled maintenance spanking?

 

Since we don’t do maintenance, I don’t have much of an opinion on this one, but my uninformed view is maintenance is something that would seem to be more at her discretion, because it doesn’t send mixed signals in the way that inconsistency in real punishment spankings do.  When something clearly meriting punishment has happened and it isn’t delivered, that tends to undermine the dynamic.  But, maintenance is more about role affirmation and maintaining the spanking habit.  If that habit is well-established, it seems to me to be reasonably within her discretion to skip one session.  But, others who actually use maintenance spankings should chime in here.

 

Greg’s second question is, “Should a spanking be cancelled by bad behaviour of the wife?”  I’m not totally sure what Greg is getting at with this one.  Two scenarios come to mind. 

 

First, his comment referred to a fight that his wife determined was her fault. For me, if that was how the scenario actually played out—we got in a fight and it was Anne’s fault—yes, for me that would certainly mean I don’t get spanked for the fight, unless I did something like go way over the bounds of civilized argument. 

 

However, it's also the case that Anne has been getting better at cutting things off before something turns into a real fight.  Over the last year, she's become much quicker at not only noticing snippiness or snarkiness but making sure I know it will get me spanked if I don't stop.  Although I don't like it at the time, it does put give me a certain amount of choice in determining whether to (a) continue with a bad attitude that might lead to an argument, or (b) get spanked.

 

Second, there is the perhaps more common issue of a husband getting spanked for something the wife sometimes (or often) does herself.  Or, maybe the wife has behaved badly in way that’s unrelated to the husband’s bad conduct.  Does her bad behavior cancel out his?

 

 

For me, this one is a clear no.  Her behavior is more or less irrelevant to whether I should get a spanking. There are two related aspects to this.

 

First, our DD relationship came at my request.  After I discovered The Disciplinary Wives Club, I determined that it was a relationship style that might do me good.  I felt the need for more structure. I wanted someone to set rules and enforce them. And, I felt an overwhelming need to be held accountable for bad behaviors and attitudes, and I wanted the means for imposing that accountability to be the kind of disciplinary spankings I read about on the DWC website.

 

Anne, in contrast, doesn’t have any desire for physical discipline.  She’s emotionally self-regulating and has a solid temperament. She doesn’t want or need imposed discipline.

 

Second, and relatedly, our DD relationship involves a consciously chosen inequality in the power structure. When it comes to the “why, where, when and how” questions of how the disciplinary relationship works, she’s in charge.  Period.  While we’re equals in many aspects of our relationship, when it comes to discipline there is a clear hierarchy, and it’s again based on the DWC model, which advocated for “maternal” style discipline.  In short, I’ve asked Anne to take on a more parental-style role, and parents do the punishing; they don’t get punished themselves.

 

 

There was a comment last year that summed this up as well or better than I ever could. It’s one I know Norton liked, as he’s brought it up several times. It was by a commenter calling herself Ms. Terrapin.  She said that she had initially had some hesitation about disciplining her husband for smaller things and also about disciplining him for things she too was guilty of. She had epiphanies, however, on both fronts. Here’s what she said (edited for length) in response to me talking about Anne spanking me for failing to close the garage door, even though she’s had some problems with it herself:

 

“I’ve found that keeping my focus on the root cause—disobedience or disrespect—has been a lifesaver for banishing second-guessing. It’s like a mental anchor that keeps me steady when I start to wobble on whether a spanking is “fair.”

 

Your mention of Anne experiencing the same garage door quirk reminded me of a similar concept - and that is hesitating because I felt like I was being a hypocrite. Early on, if I’d messed up something similar—like leaving the garage door open or forgetting a chore—how could I discipline my husband for it? But focusing on the root cause solved that dilemma for me. It’s not about whether I’ve ever committed the same offense, because the primary reason he is being spanked is for disobeying me.

 

This ties into something else he’s asked for (even if he’s not always thrilled about it when the paddle comes out!): a dynamic that mirrors realistic maternal discipline. And here’s the fun part—another epiphany I had is that real-life maternal discipline isn’t about fairness. A mom can spank her son for staying out past curfew without batting an eye, even if she stayed out late herself the week before. It’s not a relationship of equals, and that’s the point!

 

I've had several occasions over the past few years where my husband has tried to get out of punishment by arguing that it wasn't fair that he was getting spanked for something that perhaps I had also done myself in the past. I always enjoy the look on his face when I cheerfully reminded him, “You asked for maternal discipline, and you will receive maternal discipline. Life’s not fair, darling, and I’m the one in charge!” It is a moment that sets the tone: naughty boys are not peers with their maternal disciplinarians.

 

The sentence I bolded is the heart of how I answer the question of why it’s fair for Anne to spank me for something she isn’t perfect about herself:  By choice and at my request, ours is not a relationship of equals when it comes to setting the rules or determining the consequences for breaking one.

 

How about you? How would you answer Greg’s questions about what should, and should not, cancel or offset a spanking, whether disciplinary or maintenance?

Who Gets More Out of DD Spanking Relationships -- The Disciplined Husband or the Disciplinary Wife? (Club Meeting - 555)

“In any given moment we have two options: to step forward into growth or step back into safety.” — Abraham Maslow

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are int, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship of the type advocated in the now defunct Disciplinary Wives Club (archived copy in the Links I Like list below right).

 

I hope you had a good week.  Mine?  Well, for the first time in over a month, I feel like maybe I’m starting to turn a corner.  There’s still a fair amount of pain, and the brace I have to wear is really annoying, especially when trying to sleep. But, I feel like my attitude is getting a little better. 

 

I used to have this belief that if we could get rid of all the distractions and find ourselves in a quiet room with nothing to do, all sorts of creativity or deep thinking would emerge.  Well, it turns out, for me at least, the opposite is true.  As the weeks went by, I found myself devolving into a pattern of re-watching streaming series I’ve already seen, wasting time arguing on Reddit about those same streaming series, listening to political podcasts, and starting books only to give up after 50 pages.  And, I kept trying to do all this at the same time. 

 

This week, I cut way back on bingeing for the sake of bingeing.  I turned off most of the podcasts.  And, I made myself push through a book that had been dragging.  By the end of the week, I’d polished off three pretty challenging books of real literature, and I’d started a new series I really like.  As a result, I just feel better.

 

I also started feeling the first stirrings in over a month of something like an interest in DD.  I’ve had substantial periods where I lost interest after other surgeries, but this one has been the worst.  I’ve had zero interest in sex and/or DD, and no prospect of engaging in either anyway.  That latter part is still mostly true, but at least the interest seems to be coming back in small ways.

 

It’s funny how quickly that can happen.  In my case, I woke up this morning thinking it was unlikely that I’d post today.  Then, a DD-related audio file popped up in my Tumblr feed. (Yes, it’s true, I didn’t completely shut down my proclivity for wasting time on the internet.)  It’s from a couple of years ago, and it’s a wife leaving a message for her husband after he’s hinted he wants to bring spanking “like his mother used to give him” into their relationship.   

 

 

She then talks to his mother, and it turns out he didn’t get spanked very often or very hard.  But, real spankings were prevalent in the wife’s family, so she decides to grant his wish, but on her terms.  In talking about why she’s more than willing to do so, she states:

 

“In fact, I can’t imagine why any woman wouldn’t want the authority to discipline her husband.”

 

I was listening to this after Red Often had listed some of the benefits of getting spanked, including:

 

1.    Getting spanked relieves stress.

2.    Getting spanked is calming.

3.    Getting spanked generates endorphins and puts you in a euphoric state.

4.    Getting spanked generates adrenaline and gives an adrenaline rush, especially if you are anticipating getting a very harsh one.

5.    Getting spanked lifts moods. Russian psychiatrists have found success in treating depression with bare butt whippings.

6.    The marks left from getting spanked is like an art of its own.

7.    For some, it can restore feelings of youth.

 

I invite all of you to comment on any other benefits you get out of being spanked, though I’m going to take the post in a different direction.  (For me, since my motivations are much more about discipline than spanking per se, the only ones on the list that really resonate for me are #4, and #7 to the extent the “feelings of youth” refers to sometimes feeling like a teenager subjected to parental discipline.)

 

Red’s list was all about the benefits of getting spanked, but the audio recording had me thinking about the benefits of being the spanking wife. Throughout the “message” to her husband, she’s plainly reveling in her forthcoming role and the control it is going to give her, as well as enjoying the prospect of giving his husband the kind of spanking he thinks he wants but will likely come to regret.

 

The juxtaposition of Red’s list and this Tumblr audio file (link in a comment below) suggested this topic:  Who gets more out of Domestic Discipline – the husband receiving it or the wife giving it?

 

Given that our group is mostly men, it’s unsurprising that we tend to talk about this thing we do from the perspective of why we wanted it and what we get out of it. 

 

I’m as guilty of that as anyone.  In fact, although when I originally brought the idea of DD to Anne I pitched it as being about bringing balance to the relationship by empowering her, for the first several years, I'm sure I tended to think more about whether it was “working” in terms of how well it was meeting my needs. I also don't think I was capable at that point of really appreciating that I would grow the most in situations in which she imposed something that I really did not like or agree with at the time (beyond being spanked hard, of course).

 

And, I do think for many years, Anne was mostly accommodating those needs.  I don’t think there was ever time she had any sort of aversion to DD, but the whole dynamic probably was more about me than about her.

 

That started changing around the time she retired. She’s said that she underestimated how much the fear of our lifestyle being “outed”—regardless of how unlikely it might have been—held her back.  After retirement, she was relieved of caring about what others thought.

 

With that, I started seeing signs that she was getting into DD more and more for what it did for her, independent and separate from whatever impact (no pun intended) it had on me.  She mentioned spanking more. She threatened it more, and she it was clear that she enjoyed both threatening a spanking and letting me know when I was in for one.

 

 

She started asserting herself more in terms of telling me what she expected, and what the consequences would be for not meeting those expectations. 

 

She's also gotten more open about being into the "maternal" dynamic that drives so much of my own DD interest.

 

Today, with the benefit of 20+ years of hindsight, I genuinely believe that something that we put in place to change my attitude and behavior has had deeper, more profound impacts on her.   

 

She gained confidence. She gained control. She gained assertiveness. And, although it took awhile she gained the ability to acknowledge that she likes being in power. And, while she used to say that she enjoyed watching me prepare to be spanked, I'm pretty sure she now thoroughly enjoys doling out the spanking itself.

 

Honestly, I think that if we had to give it up for any reason (most likely something health or aging related), she would lose more from that than I would.  If you asked her, I think she'd say that, like the wife in that audio file, she "can’t imagine why any woman wouldn’t want the authority to discipline her husband.”

 

Here are a few comments from over the years regarding benefits our wives believed they received from becoming our Disciplinarians:

 

“I do think I slipped into my disciplinarian role quite easily, but I assumed that was because spanking was so prevalent in my family that it was not considered a big deal. So, it is interesting to hear that other women without my background also have been able to adopt the role easily.

 

Maybe it is not that hard to act parental towards men who act childish!

 

Because our DD is limited to one large issue (arrogance), and we address it within limits (regularly scheduled sessions), I have not found much difficulty accepting my role. I think rationalizing is more for the spanked husband than the spanking wife, but I have had a few realizations:

 

First, it is extremely comforting to know there is something I can actually do about Art's arrogance. I used to feel helpless, to the point that our marriage was in danger, and I had to leave temporarily. But he does respond to the paddle! And even to threats, knowing looks, and other warnings. To know I can actually STOP his arrogance when I need to has changed everything between us.

 

Similarly, I don't just feel comforted by my new authority. I like it. I like knowing I have this power over him. Neither of us wants an FLR, but there is an ‘FLR-ness’ to our relationship that is new. He is more service oriented. He helps more around the house. He is more polite. He is more attentive to my needs, both in and out of the bedroom. He is more deferential. I wasn't sure I would like deferential, but I do. It is a realization that he can be a bit submissive - there, I said it - without losing his manliness.

 

Art was very concerned that I would think less of him and start treating him like a child all the time. But the opposite is true. I think more of him that he wants to reduce his arrogance, brings me the paddle, and willingly takes his medicine like a real man should, accepting the consequences for his actions.” – Liz

 

***

 

“Deterring his childish and unacceptable behavior is my reason for spanking him. It was my original reason, encouraged by my mother (appropriately), and I had reason to believe it was something he wanted too, but he was unable to admit he needed boundaries (now he readily admits it).

 

But my desire to punish him is also part of it and was probably there from the beginning. I am getting stricter with him, which means his appointments with Ms. Strap happen once or twice a month. Controlling his behavior is still what motivates me, but pay-back with a sound spanking is part of what I get out of it too. I guess what I am saying is—and I’m a little shocked at saying it—even if I got no behavior rewards from spanking him, I still would do it for punishment.

 

Maybe I am turning into a bitch, but men just do better with boundaries and consequences.” – Holly

 

***

 

“I love the way spanking our husbands frees us from the need to nag. Nagging is a symptom of powerlessness. For me, the most empowering words in my vocabulary are, "Don't make me tell you again." I say those words quietly and calmly, and Wayne gets the message that I am not going to nag. He knows that beyond that point a hairbrush, paddle, or strap will do the talking.” – Danielle

 

How about you?  Who has gotten more out of the DD aspects of your relationship, the disciplined husband or the disciplinary wife?  What are those respective benefits?  When you look back over the time you’ve been practicing DD, did you ever get more than you bargained for? Did she get more than maybe she thought she would in the beginning?

 

Have a great week.

No Post This Week

Hi all.  I've been wondering whether having all this spare time on my hands while recuperating would lead to big flashes of inspiration for writing and create lots of mental space to read new books, try new streaming series, etc.

Turns out, the answer is a resounding no.  I have zero inspiration for blogging, I've "did not finished" several books, and instead of watching anything new, I've worked my way through entire series that I've seen multiple times before.

Given the lack of anything resembling inspiration, I probably won't be posting this week.  Feel free to suggest possible future topics.

Have a great three-day weekend, for those of you who live in the U.S. and have the time off.

Age and F/m Disciplinary Spankings (Club Meeting - 554)

“Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.” - Tom Stoppard

 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are int, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship of the type advocated in the now defunct Disciplinary Wives Club (archived copy in the Links I Like list below right).

 

I hope you all had a good week. Mine was . . . the same as the week before . . . painful and mostly immobile.  I’m trying to keep an “it is what it is” attitude, but it’s not always easy.  The big challenge is the mobility.  When I’ve had major ortho surgeries in the past, I was always able to find ways to drive within days of the surgery.  This time, it’s likely to be a full six weeks before that’s even theoretically possible.  The only time I’ve been confined to one space for a significant amount of time was when I got quarantined in a foreign country during Covid.  This has a similar feel, but at 5x the duration. Sigh. 

 

Given both the nature of the injury and my current immobility, my ability to get myself in trouble is pretty limited.  Yet, I may be racking up a list to be dealt with later.  There was a problem with an errand Anne ran for me yesterday, and it arguably was a result of some minor carelessness on my part. Her response, though a bit tongue in check, shows our dynamic remains top of her mind, which is generally good.

 

 

Given that DD isn’t a practical possibility for us right now, my motivation for writing about DD topics is pretty low.  But, I did come across something recently that might generate a few thoughtful comments.

 

Many of us accept, based on our own experiences and our anecdotal knowledge of others in the lifestyle, that there is something about real Domestic Discipline that causes its participants to tilt toward the middle to far end of the age spectrum. 

 

Way back in 2014, early in this blog’s history and back when Blogger had a “polling” tool, I did a survey on the age of the blog’s participants, with these results:

 

21 – 30                 7%

30 -40                   4%

40 – 5                   16%

50+                       71%

 

So, at that time, almost 3/4 of our little community were 50 or older, though I personally was not at that time.  Those results were consistent with information from The Disciplinary Wives Club.  In response to a question regarding the age of those taking a DWC survey in 2007 and 2008, the results were:

 

Unfortunately, they didn’t ask (unless I overlooked it), how old the survey takers were when they had their first DWC relationship. They did, however, ask the men what age they were when they first realized they had need/desire for discipline:

 

Although it does confirm what many here would verify about themselves—that their DD interest started early in life while an actual DD relationship may have come later—I’m not wild about this survey question, because it’s worded in terms of when the participant first realized they had a need or desire for “discipline”, which may or may not have been equated in the survey taker’s mind with a need/desire for “spanking”.  Many here have expressed that they experienced a desire for, or fascination with, spanking at a very early age (puberty or earlier), but that equating that with a desire for discipline came later.

 

And, interestingly, the survey didn’t ask at all about when the women participants first realized they had an interest in spanking or discipline!

 

Yet, for all the limitations in these surveys, it has seemed reasonable to conclude that for many (me not included), a generalized spanking interest may arise early but real DD relationships tend to happen much later in life. 

 

In fact, it's ironic and unfortunate that we seem to not be capable of finding the kind of relationship we need during those younger periods when we probably most need it, while we seek it out after we've likely settled down a bit.

 

So, it was with some surprise that I came upon this much more recent survey in a different venue.  Reddit has a couple of groups focusing on Domestic Discipline. The most popular says it gets about 3.5k visits per week, which is about half of the traffic this blog got in the last week.  While Reddit doesn’t provide any sort of gender breakdown, based on the posts and comments, it seems to be overwhelmingly comprised of those in F/m dynamics, and most of the posters and commenters seem to be women, though a few male “tops” post and comment.

 

A few weeks ago, one of the participants polled the group for the participants’ ages, with these results: 

 

So, in this poll, the youngsters dominate, with the 25 to 30 age group seemingly making up the largest cohort, and with the 25 to 45 cohort comprising almost 55% of the total.  In contrast, the 45 to 65 cohorts make up only about 12% of the total. [Note: The graph has some anomalies. The age groups aren’t uniform, with some covering 10 years, one covering 5, and one covering 15.  And, the numbers reported don’t seem to correspond to the size of their respective bars. And, I don’t know what it means that the results are for “core contributors”.]

 

Now, I think one pretty simple explanation for why this Reddit survey shows greater DD participation/interest among younger Redditors than we experience on this blog and that the DWC seemingly attracted is that Redditors as a whole are relatively young.  Google reports that 18 to 29 year-olds make up perhaps 45% of the audience, while those over 50 account for only 10 to 15%. 

 

It would give me some hope that the lifestyle is proliferating among the younger age groups and not dying out as the original DWC participants move into their 60s but, as I said, the group dynamic seems to be overwhelming M/f. 

 

In any case, the Reddit results notwithstanding, do you think it is true that Domestic Discipline usually doesn’t kick off for most couples until they are in their forties or later?   

 

Why is the demographic of those interested in the topics addressed by this blog--primarily F/m domestic discipline--so heavily tilted toward those 50 and older?   

 

More disposable time that they use to surf the internet?   

 

More secure in themselves and more open to alternative lifestyles?   

 

Or, maybe you have to reach a certain age to fully feel the stress and strains that lead some hard-charging career men to seek out DD as an outlet? 

 

Or, is it more about the age of the spanker than the spankee?  

 

Could it be not so much that men reach a certain age and find they want DD but, rather, that our partners generally must reach a certain age before we feel comfortable telling them about our proclivities?  

 

 

Maybe they have to reach a certain age before either (a) they are comfortable with doing it; or (b) we are comfortable with asking them?

 

If it’s been true that those in DD lifestyles trended older, do you think it’s changing? 

 

I will note that the two women I’ve gotten to know through blogging about this stuff (one a “top” and one a “bottom”) seem to have been in their early 30s when they got started.  

 

 If people’s interest and/or discipline starts early but DD relationships don’t start until much later, why do you think that is?  Is it a matter of not having the courage or sense of security to ask for it until we hit middle-age? It certainly seems that even among those men who realize their spanking interest in high school or college (or earlier) very few manage to get themselves into real disciplinary relationships until much later. 

Or, is it more about self-awareness, i.e. most don’t realize until later in life that their spanking interest is more about a desire for real discipline and/or for female authority?  

 

Let’s also update those DWC survey results a bit with some personal anecdotal information, including:

 

·      How old were you when you first became interested in spanking in general?

·      How old were you when you first realized your spanking interest was about wanting real disciplinary spankings or was about wanting spanking as a part of being subject to female authority?

·      How old were you when you received your first adult spanking?

·      How old were you when you received your first adult disciplinary spanking?

·      How old were you when your first real disciplinary relationship began or when your vanilla relationship first turned disciplinary?

·      How old are you now? How old is your spouse?

 

For our female participants, just take the above and change up the answers to reflect your own spanking/disciplinary spanking interest and experience.

 

Have a great week.

 

Domestic Discipline and Risk-Taking (Club Meeting - 553)

“Death frames the high wire. But I don't see myself as taking risks. I do all of the preparations that a non-death seeker would do.” - Philippe Petit

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club - Tribute.  Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Mine?  Pretty much sucked.  My mobility is pretty low right now, while my pain level is pretty high.  Not a great combination.  I probably need another week before things make a substantial turn for the better.

 

In the meantime, I hadn’t planned on doing a post this week, but I had plenty of time on my hands . . . so, here’s a short one.

 

After I announced I’d be on hiatus for a week or more, Norton posted this comment:

 

Dan, sorry you had what seems to be a pretty serious accident. While you did say it was just a fluke, and not because of carelessness, it does remind me of earlier conversations we had about how much risk we were willing to take on, and when it was prudent to slow down. That is something that each individual must decide for themselves, but it also could involve a disciplinary wife, or partner, who might have her own ideas. Mine expressed her wishes clearly, and while she left it up to me, I listened to her concerns, and eventually, acted on them. Part of being male is that we tend to take more risk than females generally do, and probably have many more accidents because of that. We drink more, get in more fights, and often act impulsively than women do, which is why there so many more males in prison than females. A possible future topic could be "how much does DD influence the amount of risk you take on?" Another slightly different way of putting that could be "how much do you allow her to limit what she considers dangerous behavior?"

 

So, let’s go with that as a topic.  I don’t have a lot to offer on either formulation of Norton’s question, but here are a few thoughts.

 

Regarding how much DD influences the amount of risk I take on, the answer is not much.  And, to the extent it does, it’s pretty indirect and overlaps with carelessness.

 

As I’ve discussed a few times here, Anne has, over the last couple of years, started taking carelessness more seriously.  However, that’s really been at my request. There have been times, including a few other times involving motorcycles, when I’ve gotten very mad at myself over some act of carelessness.  In most cases, there weren’t serious consequences, but I recognized that was mostly luck.  In those circumstances, I felt discipline would be appropriate, and I’ve asked her to take carelessness more seriously.

 

The distinction between carelessness and risk taking seems to me to be not that distinct.  Maybe carelessness is largely unconscious, and the offense lies in not paying sufficient attention, while risk-taking is a more conscious decision to do something that has a higher-than-normal risk of injury or loss? 

 

My thought process in asking for discipline even for mere carelessness has been that the mere possibility of serious consequences might, in fact, make me pay more attention, thereby preventing some previously unconscious carelessness from leading to real loss.

 

 

Those past incidents involving motorcycles fall mainly in the mostly unconscious part of the spectrum, though one involved some peer pressure and was more about allowing myself to go along with a risky decision.

 

This time, however, there wasn’t any kind of conscious risk-taking, and it’s hard to put my finger on anything that rises to the level of even simple carelessness.  It was just bad luck. It wasn’t even a very dramatic event, even if the consequences were.

 

One could say, however, that there are certain activities that are inherently risky, such that engaging in them at all is at least careless?  This seems to relate more to the second formulation of Norton’s question, i.e., "How much do you allow her to limit what she considers dangerous behavior?"

 

Does motorcycling fall into the category of inherently risky?  I’m not sure there’s an objective answer to that, and my own answer would have to be something like, “Compared to what?”  Riskier than driving down the road in a car? Probably.  Yet, a few years ago, a couple of weeks after I struggled on a particular mountain pass but made it home safely, some people in a Jeep went over the edge on that same pass, with several resulting fatalities. 

 

What about other “risky” activities?  Is motorcycling riskier than skiing? I would probably put the two on about the same level, in that if done with skill, in good protective gear, you’re probably going to be injury-free most of the time, but sometimes you just get unlucky.  A couple of my doctors noted that my injury is almost identical to the one Lindsey Vonn suffered earlier this year.

 

 

All my family skis, and maybe that’s why none of them have pushed that motorcycling is just too risky. 

 

As for Anne, I think she gets that motorcycling is something I’ve been doing since I was 11 years-old. It comes pretty close to being a core part of what makes me me. I don’t think either of us would ever view DD or FLR as giving one of us that sort of control over another’s life choices.

And, it’s also a fact that since retiring, motorcycles have been the main reason I have not experienced the fall-off in friendships that so many men report at this stage of life.  To the contrary, my friends network has expanded since retiring, and most of it is people I have met through adventure motorcycling.

Now, that’s not to say that, at some point down the road, I’ll have my last ride.  And, hopefully when it happens, it will have been by choice.

 

 

How about you?  How much, if at all, does DD influence the amount of risk you take on? How much, if at all, does your wife impose limits on what she considers risky or dangerous behavior?"

 

I hope you have a great week.