Saturday, December 3, 2022

(Probably) no post this week

 


Hi all.  I hope you're having a good weekend.  We have visitors this weekend and upcoming seek.  It's doubtful that I'll have time to post.  Enjoy the season.  If holiday parties are in store, be careful out there.




Sunday, November 27, 2022

The Club - Meeting 419 - Who Changes More and in What Ways?

“Women marry men hoping they will change, and men marry women hoping they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed.” – (wrongly?) attributed to Albert Einstein

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

 

I hope you all had a great week, including for those in the U.S., a happy Thanksgiving.  Ours was pretty laid back.  A drama-free day spent with family, then on to Christmas decorating over the weekend.  I’m not quite feeling the spirit yet, but hopefully it will hit me soon.

 


One thing that has hit me is disappointment and frustration at my continuing issues with carelessness.  If we hadn’t done an entire topic in it so recently, I’d probably explore it in depth.  Instead, suffice it to say, every time I think that I’ve learned my lesson, it’s not long before I do something else that costs my time and money fixing problems caused by my own carelessness, lack of attention to detail, or tendency to take shortcuts. Most recently, I both delayed doing something around the house that needed doing before winter and took a shortcut when I finally got around to doing it.  In the end, a maintenance job that should have taken about 15 minutes became a repair job taking about 5 hours. As I said, the frustration with the time my carelessness it costing me has hit me, but one thing that hasn’t is a hard paddle or strap over and over until my mindset about these things gets a real correction.

 

Anyway, with that bit of venting at myself out of the way . . . we got several responses to ZM’s poll last week, which sought to tease out our and our partner’s relative levels of dominance and submission in various contexts.  It was a pretty small sample size, which makes it difficult to talk about patterns or trends.  Perhaps one interesting pattern is I don’t think anyone self-identified as being “submissive” or appearing to others to be submissive outside the home, though several said they have issues with confrontation.

 

Something else that came up in one thread answering ZM’s poll was the issue of “change.” KOJ had these two comments:

 

As a young man, I thought I wanted a partner who was the opposite of my mother (overbearing) and I wanted to run the show. I married such a woman. By middle age, with a marriage with a lot of frustration on both sides, I wanted a wife more like my mother -- to manage our lives, including with maternal discipline. Fortunately for me, my wife was growing in confidence and was so sick of my boyish and boorish behavior that she instantly took to her newfound authority backed up by corporal punishment. I think it is no coincidence that we both took on these new roles in middle age, for all the reasons already cited by others. My wife's explanation was simple and straightforward: "I just couldn't take any more of your shit, and whipping your ass to get my way was a better option than divorce."

 

Reputation among friends/relatives: This changed dramatically after retirement. Folks previously saw us as equals. After retirement she was obviously dominant. One of my adult children has discussed this with me because the change was so blatant to her.

 

Cynthia Ellen had a question that also was about “change”:

 

It seems that some of you guys changed your wives' minds, so they took accountability over you. How did you do that? Maybe a future topic?

 

 

So, let’s talk about change.  With respect to Cynthia Ellen’s question, did either you or your partner ever change your minds about Domestic Discipline or exercising authority?   

 

Regarding KOJ’s broader theme of changes over time, in what ways have your or your partner’s attitudes toward DD and your respective roles changed over time?  In what ways has practicing DD changed one or both of you over time?  Who has changed more, and in what ways?

 

Regarding Cynthia Ellen’s question, I don’t think there have been that many examples raised here of changing a spouse’s mind about Domestic Discipline and dominance, but I can think of a couple.  Interestingly, both were female disciplinarians.  The most recent that comes to mind is Danielle, who hasn’t come around in a while.  She noted a few times that when her husband first raised the issue of having an FLR with her and his kinks around spanking and dominance, she was in a very traditional, vanilla mindset and wasn’t open to it.  It wasn’t until several years later that she “matured” enough to give it a try.  I recall at one point she said she regretted that her delay and initial rejection resulted in so many years lost in which she and her husband could have been exploring D/s, DD, and other kinks.

 

 

Then, there was this from “Holly”:

 

Calling me a bitch was what led to my husband’s first appointment with the strap. He had done it before, but my mom heard it for the first time and told me I was a fool for allowing it. There were other things going on at the time, including his general brattiness and temper tantrums when he was frustrated. It was a big change for me, because I had been determined to manage my own marriage differently than my mom had done. But over a period of time, about three years, I saw the same behavior in my husband that had gotten dad in trouble with mom. When I told him what was going to happen, he gave me almost no resistance. That makes me think he wanted me to take charge and his brattiness and tantrums were his way of asking for it. He knew how mom had run things, and I think that made him want the same thing from me. The strap transformed him into a sweet loving husband. I don't think that would have ever happened if I had not acted, or to be honest, if mom had not pushed it."

 

In our case, I don’t think Anne nor I “changed” our minds about accountability or Domestic Discipline.  We both were kind of a tabula rasa where the whole concept was concerned.  Until I stumbled on the Disciplinary Wives Club and raised the concept with her, I don’t think either of us were even aware that anything like it existed.

 

Regarding KOJ’s wife’s changes in retirement, the extent of change and how abruptly it happened seem like outliers, and intriguing ones. I do suspect, however, that on average the Disciplinary Wives do change more than the husbands.

 

If I’m right about that, it’s kind of ironic, right?  It seems like almost all these relationships (Holly’s being an exception) start with the man raising the prospect of disciplinary spankings with his wife, and it’s almost always centered on changing his behavior.

 

Yet, maybe a deeper lesson in Cynthia Ellen’s question is that it may take a pretty huge change in the disciplinarian partner just to get the ball rolling!  

 

 

I didn’t have a pre-existing interest in spanking, so I guess you could say that I did have a big change in attitude right out of the gate. In most cases, however, the men who ask for DD have had a strong spanking interest or fetish for years. Therefore, when they ask their wives to take up the paddle or strap, they aren’t “changing,” so much as expressing a desire that’s always been there.

 

The wives, on the other hand, may be coming to that conversation completely cold, having never even thought about taking on that kind of role.  This makes it all the more surprising that so many of them willingly give it a try, with many of them coming to embrace it over time.  

 

In KOJ’s case, his wife not only embraced it became so open about it that one of his adult kids asked about the change.  I don’t think that’s the typical pattern, but I do think many Disciplinary Wives do change a lot over time.  As I said, it’s a little ironic that so much of the discussion around DD is about how to change us but, in the end, it may change them even more.  

 

In our case, I suspect there was more inner dialogue going on in Anne's head than I was privy to initially, but she got to where she needed to be surprisingly quickly.



In our case, I do think that over time Anne has changed more than I have, but it was a longer and more subtle process than KOJ experienced.  She was in her low 30s when we started.  Unlike the situation Holly describes growing up with a disciplinary mother, my wife’s grew up in a traditional, male-dominated home.  When arguments happened, it was almost always the passive-aggressive variety in which she pouted and he slept on the couch until one or both moved on, with the underlying problem never really getting resolved.

 

That was our dynamic when we first got married.  Arguments almost always ended with her flouncing out and pouting.  I think the biggest way in which she has changed over time is her willingness to assert herself more directly and, sometimes, painfully.  I think she also has become way more assertive in general over the 18 or so years we’ve been doing DD and experimenting on and off with something more like an FLR.

 


 

Although the changes have been incremental, I do think they accelerated as retirement approached.  During a period three or four years ago when Anne was becoming more openly “bossy,” one of our kids asked about the dynamic, basically commenting that it seemed like Anne was the one who “wore the pants.”  I wasn’t there, but Anne says she gave her a kind of vague or cryptic answer to the effect that I had a lot of responsibility at work and, therefore, didn’t want to make lots of decisions at home. When pressed a bit more, she did own that she kind of did wear the pants.

 

How have I changed?  Regarding Domestic Discipline, I think my attitude about it has been relatively stable, though I think there are a few things I appreciated now more than I did when we started.

 

First, I do think that from the very first conversation I emphasized that part of the goal was equalizing the relationship, helping her become more assertive by taking me down a peg or two.  But, I think I had a pretty limited and vague understanding of what that might entail.  I think at the time I still saw her assertiveness as a means, with the end being to bring about changes in my behavior.  Now, I sometimes think I had that “means versus ends” dichotomy backward.  Over time, I’ve come to think that one reason DD seems to work for so many wives is that it allows them to assert themselves—to  “find their voice” as it were—even if many of his problematic behaviors come up over and over.

 

Another way of putting it might be that I recognized I needed, and that part of me desperately wanted, imposed boundaries.  But, I looked at the value of those boundaries from my perspective. I now think that she gets as much gratification or more from doing the imposing than I get from having them imposed.  

 


Second, when I first became interested in DD, I thought about it as being almost entirely about the discipline.  Today, I’m far more on board with the observations of many here that even if the whole thing is permeated with sexual energy, that doesn’t mean it isn’t real discipline.  I’ve gotten a lot more comfortable with the fact that the two can co-exist.  

 

Third, today I’m way more certain that a big part of my underlying attraction to DD is about the authority as opposed to the discipline. Accountability and penance are always going to be a big part of the dynamic for me, but over time I’ve come to see that those aren’t as powerful unless they feel imposed by someone in authority. 

 

 

Alan and ZM in particular have talked a lot about it being the need for strong female authority.  I agree, though I’m not quite as insistent that for me it has to be about female authority. I think I have a strong attraction to power in general and to having power imposed on me, and I’m maybe more agnostic than some about whether that authority has to be female.

 


 

Which leads to the final observation about how I think my attitude has changed over time.  I never think of myself as a submissive, yet as I get older and become more open to all sorts of things and shed more and more of my biases—including biases about myself—I do think that part of my attraction to DD reflects a deep-seated desire to be subject to someone’s dominance.

 

I’ve always had an anti-authoritarian streak, which probably seems at odds with what I just said about getting off on authority and needing it to be imposed.  I think the two can be reconciled by the fact that at work I didn’t feel like anyone who tried to dominate me had any real ability to do so and make it stick, and I didn’t have any particular incentive to submit to anyone.  This may loop back a bit to some of ZM and Alan’s observations about how the sexual or erotic aspects of DD help make the whole thing work.  Anne doesn’t have any more objective “power” over me than some superiors at work, with one important exception . . . because of the erotic and sexual energy involved, I’m driven to submit to her authority to whatever extent she attempts to use it.  I hope that makes sense, because I’m not sure I can articulate it any better than that.

 

Have a great week.

Saturday, November 19, 2022

The Club - Meeting 418 - Alphas, betas, Dominants and submissives

“I can no longer obey; I have tasted command, and I cannot give it up." – Napoleon Bonaparte


Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

This upcoming week includes Thanksgiving here in the U.S.  In the past, I’ve tried to come up with sexy drawings or memes to post like I do for other holidays like Halloween and Christmas, but I’ve exhausted my supply. There just doesn’t seem to be anything very sexy about this particular holiday, so this year I’m not even going to try.  So, I'll go political instead.

 

 

Well, it’s been an interesting couple of weeks, particularly for those of us here in the U.S who are politically oriented.  The Republicans took back the House but by the narrowest of margins.  It’s going to make governing a nightmare for the new Speaker.  In the meantime, the current Speaker will step down at the end of this term.

 

It’s quite a contrast in leadership.  Whether you love or hate Nancy Pelosi, no one with half a brain and any knowledge of political history can claim the woman didn’t understand power.  In fact, when asked what her “secret” was to ascending to the role of first female Speaker of the House in U.S. history, she was always quick to emphasize that no one gives you power.  If you want it, you have to take it.  

 


I wasn’t a big fan in the early days, but I started coming around during the financial crisis in 2018.  With the economy teetering on a replay of the Great Depression, the Republican President, George W. Bush, couldn’t rally even a bare majority of his troops in the House to help pass a rescue plan.  Pelosi pushed a majority of very reluctant Democrats in the House to support Secretary Paulson’s plan, even though it handed the Republicans a win going into a presidential election. It wasn’t the first or the last time she pushed her caucus into taking votes they didn’t want to take.  Love her or hate her, the woman not only understood how to take power but how to use it. 

 

Her successor?  So far, it’s not clear that, despite having an abundant desire to achieve power, he has any talent for it.  Obsequiousness and ass-kissing may get him the job, but it’s going to take a completely different skill set to exercise actual power and get things done.

 

What’s that all have to do with today’s topic?  Quite a lot, I think.  I don’t know whether Pelosi is a “natural” dominant in her domain.  McCarthy sure seems like a natural beta to me, but whether he comes by it naturally or adopts it in order to get the votes he needs for the position he craves, who knows?  Is there such a thing as an obsequious Alpha? I do think that Pelosi dominating male peers and McCarthy seemingly taking marching orders from Marjorie Taylor Greene are powerful data points that alphas and betas aren’t to be categorized by the presence or absence of an X chromosome.

 


How we determine relative dominance and power in our own relationships is the topic for today, as articulated by ZM.  Are the men who participate on this blog naturally dominant, naturally submissive, or does it depend on context? Same for the wives. Are they naturally dominant, or do they adopt the superior position only in the very limited context of discipline?  In addition to the power to spank or punish, what is the extent of the wives’ authority to set the rules in the first place or to make important decisions?  

 


It was those questions ZM was trying to get at with his suggested poll.  His thoughts, and specific poll questions (with a couple of additions and tweaks from me), are as follows:

 

I think we struggle a lot on here with the terms of "dominant" or "submissive" or "alpha" or "beta" because these don't really mean all that much. I am realizing more and more in life that there are areas I am pretty strongly dominant, and others in which I am almost totally submissive. While my wife and I try to make decisions together, I end up making quite a few decisions in life. And yet, I am rather sexually submissive. Having said that, I can also be quite aggressive sexually.

 

I think a really interesting sort of poll-type thing would be to see where people fit on these different spectrums. I am sure the way I structured it would be non-ideal, but I am just kind of thinking as I type here.

 

For family structure:

 

In our finances...

 

I make most decisions.......we jointly make decisions.......she makes most decisions

 

In our family interactions (children, etc.)

 

I make most decisions.......we jointly make decisions.......she makes most decisions

 

Socially

 

I make most plans.........we both make plans depending......she makes the plans

 

Sexually

 

I usually initiate sex..............it just depends..........she usually initiates sex

 

I take more control during sex……….it just depends……….she takes more control in bed

 

With regard to DD

 

She punishes me for things I ask her to................We agree on rules about what is punishable……….Anytime, anywhere, for any reason

 

Decision-making authority

 

If we disagree on a significant issue, I make the final call………it just depends……….she makes the final call.

 

In terms of personality:

 

Work

 

I feel more comfortable giving orders...............I prefer to stay out of the hot seat

 

Confrontation

 

I kind of like hitting things head on............I avoid confrontation at all costs

 

Comfortable with opposite sex

 

It was easy for me to ask women out...........I was so careful I was often friend zoned

 

Reputation among friends

 

My friends would say I am naturally dominant……….naturally submissive………neither dominant nor submissive.

 

My wife’s friends would say she is naturally dominant……….naturally submissive………neither dominant nor submissive.

 


These are all great questions and reflect that dominance and submission almost certainly aren’t binary.  We may be comfortable leading in some contexts but not others. We might be Alphas at work but yearn to let someone take the lead at home.

 

When I first started blogging here, I assumed that most men in DD relationships were Alphas or Type-A personalities who liked the surrender of control that DD represented.  I still think many DD husbands are like that, but polls I ran back when Blogger had a poll function showed that a surprising (to me) number of our readers see themselves as more naturally submissive or as followers both at work and in their relationships with their wives.

 

My own spot on the dominance-submission spectrum seems more complicated now than we first started exploring these power exchange dynamics.  I do tend to be pretty domineering at both home and at work.  When I found the Disciplinary Wives Club website, I think one reason it hit me so hard is it revealed that while I was naturally dominant, I didn’t necessarily want to be. At least not all the time.  At the time, I saw DD as kind of a yin-yang tool, restoring balance to an unbalanced personality and to a marriage where the power and responsibility were tilted too far in my direction.

 

  

These days, I don’t know whether “balance” is what I’m after.  My personality is what it is; my first inclination is going to be toward boldness, taking control, being in charge, etc.  Yet, I know that in the context of my marriage, at times I like not just surrendering control but having it actively taken from me.  My fascination with the notion of “consensual non-consent” seems like a pretty big indication that some aspect of my personality gets off on not being in control.

 

 

So, why do I recognize those submissive aspects in myself at home but not at work?  Well, probably because at work submission was not a realistic possibility and would have been downright detrimental to my career.  In my profession, betas worked on projects that the Alphas brought them. They had no real influence or security.  It would have been a lousy way to live.  Also, the Alphas could sense weakness a mile away and would absolutely take advantage of it.  A friend of mine compared it to being in the Mafia, with a very clear line of authority between the capos and the soldiers.

 

I look forward to your thoughts on ZM’s poll. For those in the U.S., have a great Thanksgiving.  For all the rest of you . . . have a great Thursday.

 


 

Saturday, November 12, 2022

The Club - Meeting 417 - Anger and Psychological/Emotional States

“A vigorous temper is not altogether an evil. Men who are as easy as an old shoe are generally of as little worth.” ― Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Ours had us both kind of shaking our heads. Do you have those weeks when everything you own seems to break down all at once?  That was the last couple of weeks for us.  Two cars.  One dog. Then, an act of carelessness on my part took another vehicle partly out of commission. Guess I didn’t learn what I needed to after that incident I referred to a few months ago in which my carelessness about some mechanical issues created problems on a trip.  I may post more about that next week.  In the meantime, this week I think we both felt like we were left limping from one disaster to the next.  Oh well . . . first-world problems.

 

We had a good discussion last week, though perhaps in spite of the topic and not because of it.  The “implements” topic always leaves me a little bored. However, it was interesting that this time it seemed to bore everyone else too, while it used to be a guaranteed crowd-pleaser.  That warms my heart a little, as it feels like althoug the readership may have shrunk a little over the last few years, those who are around now seem to, frankly, have a bent toward exploring more meaty topics.

 

Along those lines, something that came up multiple times last week was emotions, including emotional reactions on both ends of the paddle.

 


 

There was this from DWC Fred:

 

“Yes, the psychological atmosphere is definitely a major factor, not just the pain. As Ann has gotten more empowered, so has let more emotion show when she scolds me. I’m so embarrassed and remorseful when she pulls down my underwear that the pain is important, but not the main thing. The embarrassment and shame of the reason for the spanking have almost been enough to get me crying. Add the pain and I’m there !!”

 

Alan brought up the following scenario in relation to his wife’s infrequent, but emotionally powerful, use of hand spankings:

 

“I am describing a process that can go from 0 to 60 in a millisecond. Here is a fictive example of what I am describing (maybe not all that fictive)

 

HER-- Get over here and stand in front of me

Me-- Yes Ma’am (scurrying to stand where she is indicating)

HER -- Didn’t I tell you I wanted that desk cleaned out by today (Smack), (smack) (smack) over trousers or jeans

Me -- Yes Ma’am, I’m sorry I forgot

HER-- What happens when you forget a command I give you ?

Me- You punish me

HER -- I spank you, hard and long and that is what is going to happen now (smack) (smack) (smack) Now get my strap and get your bum back here pronto (smack) (smack) (smack)

 

And it can go on and on like that for long minutes before she even takes my pants down or tells me to do so. And when she does get my pants down, she might continue the spanks to bare bum until she is ready to move on to the main event. And for a given spanking it might continue through a pre -spank scolding or post spanking time in the corner.

 

This doesn’t happen every spanking, in fact maybe one in ten and she has to be at least somewhat angry. Her use of this is not predictable and pretty spontaneous.

 

But the psychological effect on me in terms of making me obedient are equivalent to her slowly lowering my pants while daring me to stop her or her slapping my face (very rare) to underscore a point. And she knows the effect it has because I told her long ago.

 

Maybe my reaction to this is more unusual than I think (we all tend to think everyone reacts to things the way we do) but it just puts me on autopilot in terms of obeying her and following her orders.”

 


 Alan’s comment led ZM to this observation about the psychological aspects of a “satisfying” spanking, i.e. one in which the spanker feels truly punished:

 

“I think this really goes back to what Alan was saying above about the psychological aspects of spanking. How many of us have wanted a spanking to end, only to then think that it would have been better had it went on longer? How many of us have wanted to be spanked to tears, only to find it difficult or impossible get to that state? There is something that is not happening at the psychological level to really satisfy that need to feel punished, so we try to compensate. "If only I could find something that would be more painful but wouldn't leave too much physical damage..."

 

The reason that most schools only had one type of implement - whether it was a cane, strap, tawse, paddle, or something else (largely determined by cultural factors) - is primarily because one type is all that was needed. I am writing about school here, since that is what you were writing about, but it also held true in the home, for pretty much the same reasons. Even though we may have had fear of the particular tool being used on us, the punishment was never really about the tool. It was the whole mortifying experience. The shame of being sent to the office. The fear of what was going to happen. The struggle to try to take it without crying. The embarrassment of returning to class. The teasing by classmates.

 

The simple fact is that being spanked by your wife, who you are so intimately connected with and hopefully truly and fully share life with, is not going to be anywhere near as embarrassing as school or other childhood punishments were.

 

So interestingly, I think the reason that we accumulate so many spanking tools is EXACTLY the same reason that we keep coming back to witnesses here on the blog; no matter how hard she spanks you in the privacy of your home when it is just the two of you, it somehow is lacking the full psychological impact that you need.” – ZM

 

Alan and DWC Fred’s comments both reference the spanker displaying some righteous anger, giving voice to some of their real feelings.  ZM’s comment focuses more on the mindset of the spankee but links it back to Alan’s comments about the spanker doing something to put the spankee in a mindset that causes real humbling, compliance, and repentance.  I also think that his hypothesis that we are so fascinated with witnesses because they would take us closer to the psychological vulnerability of a school or parental spanking is potentially really profound.

 

My own reactions to displays of emotion, including anger, before or during a spanking are complicated.  On the one hand, matter-of-fact lectures regarding why I’m being spanked don’t do much for me one way or another, and many of our pre-spanking lectures are like that.  Instead of this . . .

 

 

I sometimes feel I need something more like this . . .

 

 

Yet, as I’ve said here before, part of me really gravitates toward an “all business,” matter-of-fact demeanor.  You break a rule, she deals with it, period.

 

I don’t think the choice between the two—anger and emotion vs. all business—is binary.  It’s a matter of context.  For example, an over-the-top emotional lecture regarding some minor infraction wouldn’t be humbling, at least not for me.  Rather, it would make me doubt the disciplinarian’s emotional stability.  

 


On the other hand, if my wife really is riled up about something, it’s better for her and for our DD relationship if she cuts loose with it.  Further, while losing her shit at every minor thing would make me question her stability, just because a particular instance of disobeying or breaking a rule might seem minor to me, it might be major to her if it’s something that has happened several times.  She would be right in that circumstance to feel some real anger and to let me know she’s pissed.

 

Now, I may not feel that way in the moment.  A couple of months ago, Anne did get really pissed off about something, and the next day she gave me what was probably the strongest lecture she’s ever given.  I didn’t fully agree with some of her premises and, in the following days, I definitely ruminated on some of those areas where we didn’t see eye to eye.  It was one of the rare times when I felt like a spanking didn’t fully clear the air, though the spanking itself wasn’t the issue; it was the lecture.

 

Yet, while it took a while, I eventually had one of those post-spanking epiphanies we’ve talked about before. In this instance, it wasn’t that I came around to her view on all the underlying facts or how the behavior should be measured.  Rather, at some point it occurred to me that my ongoing feelings of resistance were exactly that – resistance.  Part of me didn’t want to surrender to her authority to judge the seriousness of the behavior and express that judgment however she saw fit.  It was an example of coming fully around to something Alan said a few weeks ago:

 

"When you enter a DD relationship your behavior is being judged by your wife or girlfriend. So, her judgment really determines if your behavior is well-disciplined or not. And you find yourself being evaluated for things you probably never considered important before.”

 

Now, like I said, this may be very unpleasant in the moment. Being “judged” or “evaluated” . . . my ego really chafes at that.  And, that’s exactly what I eventually came around to.  My ego is pretty strong, and sometimes it is going to take way more than a cold, clinical application of the paddle to break down my defenses and get me to really accept accountability.

 

How about you? Do you prefer "all business," or are displays of anger and emotion something that helps establish your roles or helps you get into a compliant, obedient or contrite emotional state?  Or, does it depend on the context?  

 

When your wife does express anger or other strong emotions, does it change the spanking in terms of severity, duration, etc.?

 


 

In addition to displays of anger, are there other things your wife does to put you in that state of “full psychological impact” that ZM describes?

 

I hope you all have a great week.


Saturday, November 5, 2022

The Club - Meeting 416 - Tools & Instruments

“We shape our tools and afterwards our tools shape us.” - Marshall McLuhan

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  I’m sad to see Halloween come and go. Seems like we got many more older kids than young ones this year.

 

 

We also moved right from Halloween into winter, which I guess I’ll have to live with though it caught us a little unprepared.

 


 We had a pretty good discussion last week about “anything it takes,” though “anything it takes” became an extension of the previous week’s discussion around “anywhere, anytime, for any reason,” and that, perhaps inevitably, things drifted into witnesses and openness to others. That one topic sure carries a lot of emotional force with this group, doesn’t it?  I’m not griping about that; it is what it is. 

 

It does make me think that for many of us, our attraction to DD and spanking is wrapped up in some level of attraction to humbling, embarrassment, humiliation, etc. and that the prospect of witnesses amplifies that basic morbid desire.  It’s something I need to think about more, because “in real life” I really, really dislike embarrassment, whether experiencing it or viewing someone else going through it. 

 

At the end of the week, the conversation took a turn toward the topic of tools and instruments, especially paddles.  I don’t devote a full topic to tools and instruments very often, but it’s been a few years and we have some new participants, so why not?

 

Another reason for devoting a topic to this again is it’s one of the very rare areas in which I can say things have changed substantially over time for us, especially in the last year or two.  Looking back at some older posts on this topic, I found this list from a post in 2017 that included my thoughts on each instrument:

 

  • Hairbrush: Iconic, but basically worthless.
  • Bath brush: Totally different animal from a hairbrush.  Hurts like a mother&%$#@! 
  • Wooden paddles:  Something for everyone.  Iconic and, unlike a hairbrush, can hurt like hell.
  • Belts: Can be effective, but she has to swing really, really hard.
  • Leather straps: Generally much more painful than a belt, ranging from mild to OMG!
  • Loopy Johnny:  Stings pretty damn badly.  Leaves welts like a cane
  • Rubber straps: If these don't get your attention, nothing will
  • Cane: Has never worked well for us, but I'm not sure why.

 

From what I can recall, at the time of that post, we were using all those instruments with the likely exception of the cane.

 

Five years later, both the number of instruments we are using with any regularity and my thoughts on several of the instruments has changed.  Today’s list, in order of preference and with some updated thoughts, would look something like this:   

  • Bath brush: Anne’s hands-down favorite. The only instrument she has bought for herself. Probably the most versatile tool in our collection and can be left in plain view. Hurts like a mother&%$#@! The only “downside” is it’s not a particularly iconic spanking instrument, though that is one reason it can be left on open display without vanilla visitors associating it with spanking.  
  • Hairbrush: I was wrong in thinking of it as “basically worthless,” though a high-quality, heavy brush is a must.  Used properly and with sufficient force, it can send a message.  It’s probably the most iconic tool in our collection, and the only one that rates high on both iconic status and ability to leave it on display without drawing undue attention from vanillas.
  • Wooden paddles:  These used to be a staple of every spanking session. Now, after spending lots and lots of money on high-quality paddles made with exotic woods, we don’t use them very often and, when we do, it’s a single paddle that we got from Aunt Kay’s husband.     
  • Leather straps: These too used to be a staple.  We still use one, but it’s not what I had in mind when I included this in the 2017 list.  The one we use today is much shorter and thicker.  Leather straps are very iconic, and I personally have a strong emotional reaction to them, even though we don’t use them that much anymore.  One of the biggest downsides is it’s pretty clear what they are for, so they can’t be openly displayed unless you’re comfortable with others knowing. 
  • Belts: We very seldom use them, though I sometimes will add one to my suitcase when traveling because they travel well and won’t draw much attention.  They are iconic but, in my experience, only minimally effective, with the exception of “gun belts”, which are much thicker and stiffer than ordinary belts
  • Loopy Johnny:  Anne used to really like this instrument.  It stings badly and leaves welts like a cane.  Unfortunately, it also tends to snap back and bite the person wielding it.
  • Rubber straps: I’ve thrown out all of them we had in our collection. They did too much damage, almost always leading to a shorter-than-deserved spanking. The pain was so severe, I could never accept and, instead, would “man up” and just try to get through it.  Some of them, made from materials similar to those used in tires, smell terrible. No. Just. No. 
  • Cane: Has never worked well for us. I'm not sure why. I regret that a bit, because it is a very iconic instrument that also is very easily concealed.

 

As noted, one of the biggest changes for us has been going from many to fewer tools.  In the past, I kept most of our ever-growing collection in a lockable suitcase.  For each session, I would bring out the suitcase, unlock it, leave it open for Anne, then she would poke around in it mid-session, choosing six or more tools per session. That approach created two problems.  Maybe three.   

 

First, it was often the case that just as she was getting my attention with a particular tool, she would switch.  The frequent stops and switch-ups really got in the way of anything like a real mental/emotional surrender. 

 

Second, I think one reason we had challenges with consistency was the sheer number of implements was one factor in every session feeling like a big, unwieldy production.   When we simplified the number of tools and got rid of a lot of the “ritual,” for lack of a better word, it seemed to make each session less of an “event,” and consistency started going up.

 

Third, I don’t consider myself to be part of the “minimalist” or “essentialism” movements, but I do put some value on limiting the amount of “stuff” you own, focusing instead on having deeper relationships with a smaller number of things.  I know it may sound a little “woo woo” to talk about having relationships with things, and I do have a tendency to anthropomorphize some objects. But, I still maintain that you can have deep feelings about certain objects, and it’s more likely to happen if you have only a few things in that category of belongings.  J. and KOJ talked about things like signing a paddle and passing it on.  Aland and ZM also had comments that suggested how an object like a paddle can acquire emotional significance. 

 


Alan had this to say about a paddle his girlfriend brought into the relationship:

 

“My former GF had a rather formidable sorority paddle she had kept long past college days. If I ever knew her history with it before meeting me, I have forgotten it. But I know she brought it out pretty early in our relationship and for issues that she considered very serious- or on one occasion when she was enraged by my behavior. I wish now I had asked her more about it and how it had been used before meeting me. I remember one thing very well and that is she was very comfortable and competent using it and it was a long hardwood relatively thick paddle. I really wish I had asked her more about it but I probably was more focused on discouraging her from using it.”

 

ZM recalled this story from his first marriage:

 

“All of this talk of spanking implements used on others reminded me of something I forgot. My ex-wife (who unfortunately was very, very opposed to spanking so refused to participate in any way), got some boxes from one of her fellow teachers who was retiring early due to some windfall of some sort. Anyway, she brought them home, and one of the things in one of the boxes was a school paddle. There was just something about looking at it and knowing that it had been used - probably quite a few times - for actual school punishments. I was so sad when my ex-wife threw it away.”

 

Some instruments become “totems” or symbols of sorts. Or, they may evoke strong memories.  I think that’s more likely, however, with a small set of instruments that get regular use.  We seem to have gotten down to two instruments that are used almost every session, and a couple of others that make regular appearances. I’ll give a little background on each.

 

Somewhat surprisingly, given my negative comments back in 2017, the ebony hairbrush I bought a year or so ago has seen quite a bit of action.  It looks almost identical to the one in this photo. 

 


As I’ve said, hairbrushes of this style are among the most iconic spanking implements out there, even if they probably haven’t been among the highest-volume tools for a couple of generations. In fact, they can be pretty hard to find.  I bought ours used on eBay and, honestly, that’s a big part of the emotional reaction I get looking at it.  Part of me always wonders whether it has been used on other naughty bottoms.  The fact that the answer very well could be yes, but I don’t know for sure, gives it a certain mystique.  While not as effective as some other instruments, I’ve come around that, when used with sufficient force and vigor, it can bring a powerful sting.

 


The other instrument that is used in almost every session is Anne’s bath brush.  It was the first and only tool she personally bought and, for that reason, I think she has a very personal attachment to it.  We have two or three other bath brushes that I bought over the years, but they’ve gone unused since she bought her own.

 

My 2017 instrument list included leather straps, but at the time I was thinking about the traditional long, relatively narrow, “razor strop” style.  We have several of those, but they don’t get much use anymore.  Instead, this has become one of Anne’s “go-to” favorites:

 

While I don’t know anything about the history of our ebony hair brush, I know this paddle-like leather strap has seen service and has a history that is personally meaningful to me.  It was given to me by Aunt Kay’s husband, who used to participate here under the name Tomy.  It has the DWC logo on it, though I think these must have come from a larger commercial vendor, as I’ve seen them in several F/m spanking photos out there on the internet.  It’s proof that looks can be deceiving. While it’s compact and made of leather, it backs a surprisingly big and thuddy wallop. Its end also has this nasty habit of working its way in between the cheeks to soft tissues that have rarely felt the sting of other instruments.  It’s pretty damn excruciating.

 

For a while, we got away from wooden fraternity-style paddles, but one of them is working its way back into our sessions.  Another gift from Tomy, there’s nothing all that special looking about it. It’s not made from any exotic wood and has no holes. It’s basically just a fairly large, dark piece of wood with handles screwed onto it.  Yet, it has just the right mix of “sting” and “thud.” Anne has started to use it to augment spankings with her two brushes, when she has a message she wants to make sure is heard loudly and clearly.  And, as with the leather strap-paddle, it has additional meaning to me because of its association with Aunt Kay and Tomy and the fact I know it has been used on other male bottoms.

 

Alan also brought up the issue of what happens to all the tools that are out there:

 

“Considering the number of vendors actively selling the “tools of the trade” plus the number of motivated husbands handy enough to craft a paddle or strap, there must be literally thousands of spanking paraphernalia around, not being used currently, but once well used. Not all of these of course have been used in a serious DD relationship and fewer still in a DD F/M relationship.

 

And sadly, I am guessing many have been lost or destroyed. But there must be more than a few DD-weathered paddles or straps that have worked their way back into circulation. The paddle my wife used on me, that her ex-husband used on her technically qualifies. But I am thinking of spanking tools once used by a DD couple, but now owned by a different couple. Anyone know any stories?”

 

As described above, as we’ve simplified the number of instruments Anne uses, three of the four we ended up landing on for regular use have either definitely been “in circulation” with other DD couples or have very possibly been used for disciplinary purposes.  Those are a minor part of my collection, however, and at some point, I do need to find new homes for the rest.  

 


Years ago, I kept almost all our tools in a lockable foot locker, and the friend I’d told about our DD had kindly offered to spirit the footlocker out of the house and into the landfill if anything should happen to us. Now, however, in addition to our locked suitcase, I have instruments on various shelves around our closet, buried under piles of clothes, in drawers, and in other places.  Unless I get rid of all the extras or again consolidate everything in one secure location, anyone cleaning out our stuff in the future is going to have a few surprises on their hands.

 

What thoughts do you have regarding instruments?  Do you have a large collection, or just a few “go to” instruments?  Where did your go-to instruments come from? Who chose them?  Are there particular instruments that you find particularly erotic, that you or your wife react to emotionally, or that have interesting histories?  Is there an instrument that is most effective

at changing behavior? If so, is that because it is the most painful, or are there other reasons?

 

I hope you all have a great week.  Go vote!