One of the topics we have tossed around on the Forum is how to get a domestic discipline relationship started. Comments are frequently left by men who are not in a disciplinary relationship, would like to be, but cannot figure out how to introduce it to their wives. They do not believe their wives would agree to it or might see it as too weird or deviant. While there is no prescription that will work for everyone, there is one thing that should give each of these men hope: disciplinary relationships that arise within existing marriages seem be initiated most often by the men. I do not have any objective polling to back up that statement, but it seems obvious from the comments posted on this and other DD-oriented blogs and from the hundreds of postings on various DD-related group message boards. I feel fairly confident asserting that the reality of a more female-dominated, disciplinary relationship very often begins with a conflicted but curious (and not a little courageous) husband finding a way to ask for a serious spanking from a puzzled wife whose initial reaction may range from skepticism to seriously questioning what kind of of pervert she married. Somehow, they got over that hurdle. I'm no expert on how other couples did it, but I think one of the keys is being prepared to answer this one question: "What's in it for me?"
For me, the turning point came when I came across the Disciplinary Wives Club at www.disciplinarywivesclub.com. The stories of real, bare-bottomed disciplinary spankings left me fascinated, filled with fear, turned on and terrified. Fortunately, my wife and I communicated well enough that I could at least talk to her about this "interesting" web site I found. However, I think raising it as just another conversation piece would not have led to our now decade-long experiment. Instead, I had to raise it in the context of a conversation that was serious enough to suggest this was something that was more than a fantasy for me and that it was, in fact, something that scared me very deeply but might give us a real tool to deepen our relationship by making her feel happier and more empowered.
As we explored whether this was something she might be willing to try, it became clear that her biggest concern was that that if I "wanted" to be spanked for doing something bad, wouldn't the spanking just reinforce the bad behavior? My first hurdle was showing her that this wasn't erotic spankings we were talking about. These were spankings that would leave me chastened, reddened, and possibly in tears. The goal was to make the paddling bad enough that I would really, really want to avoid another at all costs. Again, the key was getting her to actually read through the materials on the Disciplinary Wives Club site, so she could see for herself that this was about her taking control in order to get better behavior from her husband and not about satisfying my erotic fantasies. It was also important that she see that this wasn't about leather and dungeons. I think the best resource on the site for introducing a skeptical but open-minded wife to this lifestyle was the story "Even More" under the Fiction Stories section, as it illustrated the motivations that may be going through the husband's mind as he very timidly initiates a discussion about domestic discipline, while highlighting how one wife comes to use very hard spankings to enforce her rules in a very ordinary marital setting. Unfortunately, the site is now down, which is one reason I am posting this section, as I think this kind of information on how to get started is really needed.
It is important to note that before our first session, my wife and I talked frankly and explicitly about what I hoped this relationship would do for both of us. I admitted that I often felt like I had to exercise such control and authority in my work life that it became a burden and that while it would be very challenging emotionally, it would almost certainly be good for me to cede some of the authority over my life to her. I also recognized that my behavior was often hurtful or inconsiderate but, because of the way we were both raised, she did not feel she could do very much about it other than pout and engage in other passive-aggressive behaviors. The conversation was very much about us consciously deciding to empower her and dis-empower me, in order to bring a sense of balance to the relationship. I emphasized that she would be able to set the rules and enforce them at will and that, while it would be a struggle for me, I was agreeing as a condition of the new relationship that I had to give in to her discipline, whenever and wherever she chose. And, it was emphasized over and over that the goal was to give her a means to nip bad behavior in the bud, instead of just passively taking it and stewing over it.
Our next hurdle was making discipline a stable part of the relationship, given that neither of us had any pre-existing interest in the lifestyle and, hence, no obsession driving us to keep it up. Making it a core part of of our relationship involved lots of rules, structure, scheduled sessions, etc. While utterly lacking in spontaneity, it was a way for us to start thinking about spankings as one of our primary relationship tools. While so much structure and planning may seem somewhat at odds with the idea of a wife taking control, especially if the husband is driving much of that planning, before Anne could start using spankings spontaneously for real discipline she first had to break down a lot of old limiting patterns and start thinking of herself as a disciplinary wife. That meant we had to find ways to provide her with frequent, structured opportunities to decide whether I would be spanked, for how long, how severely, etc. Some may call my participation in that process "topping from below," but I don't buy into that concept in the context of a disciplinary relationship, especially one in its infancy. The wife is often coming into that relationship from the perspective of someone who has spent decades in a secondary role. Growing into something new and more powerful may require lots of communication, planning and support, but you may be surprised at the extent to which your passive partner may transform herself into the guiding force in the relationship.
- Have the heart-to-heart conversation and make it about how you and your behavior impact her life. Tell her you know you don't always behave the way she wants and that, while you want to do better, old habits are hard to break. Tell her that helping you behave better will make both of you happier.
- Introduce her to something like this blog or other relationship-orietned blogs or websites on Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. Steer her to stories that you think will resonate for HER, not just for you. Then, leave her alone to explore. I would advise staying away from blogs and websites that are very FemDom oriented or focus exclusively on spanking and not on the relationship dynamic.
- After she is done reviewing and absorbing the materials, have a frank conversation about whether she would be willing to try spanking you in a real disciplinary way. Emphasize that you know that what you are suggesting will require you both to push well past your comfort zones. Listen to any concerns she may have and respond honestly to them.
- Show her that this is not about giving you a sexual thrill. Tell her that you are handing over the power to her to determine how long and how hard the spanking is delivered, and that you know it will be long, hard and very painful. Acknowledge that, like her, you won't know what a really disciplinary spanking is like until you try, but you do want to try.
- Think about a written contract or at least a written set of rules and expectations. While we did not enter into a written contract, I'm sure it would be helpful for many couples, if for no other reason than to provide a structure for talking about what you want to get out of the relationship and so both of you are clear that number one ground rule is she will be setting the rules and that you have agreed in writing to that shift in the marital dynamic.
- If she seems agreeable, strike when the iron is hot. Instead of waiting for an offense to occur, have her put together a list of things you have done in the recent past that left her feeling angry or hurt. Then, agree that she will take care of it then and there, or set a date and time.
- Don't feel confined to using a particular tool or a particular position. A heavy hairbrush is probably a good start, because it seems so domestic and so far removed from the "whips and chains" that may be a big turnoff for more traditional women. However, a really solid brush is hard to find. And, we found that my "lead bottom" required something a little more substantial and, therefore, we quickly graduated to heavy straps and wooden paddles.
- Some positions may not work for you, and neither you nor she should
worry about that. For instance, OTK spankings are not a part of our
routine, even though they are the gold standard for many couples, as
over her knee is an inherently vulnerable position for a man and
empowering for a wife. Unfortunately, for us it just has not been very
effective, as it tends to be unstable and she cannot swing with as much
force as she would like. So, after trying it a few times, we quickly
abandoned it and move onto other positions. Straps were usually employed
with me lying on the bed with pillows under my midsection to elevate my
bottom into a more target-friendly position. For a paddling, "assume
the position" usually meant bending over the end of the bed. Now,
punishments are more frequently handled in the basement with me draped
over the arm of a couch.
- Agree up front that she should err on the side of giving you a very hard spanking. Tell her that she should have the mindset of giving you the kind of spanking that a very strict parent would have delivered in the olden days to an older son with major discipline problems, i.e. something designed to "give you something to cry about." Only worse.
- Once it is over, talk, talk and talk some more. Ask her how it made her feel. Ask her whether she felt any surge of power or authority by making you pull down your pants, making you assume the position, making you take whatever degree of punishment she chose to deliver. I have found that the more I ask Anne those kinds of empowering questions after a spanking, the more comfortable she becomes with the premise that "empowered" should be her natural state.
- Send her flowers the next day, with a clever and cryptic "thank you" to assure her that even if she leaves you in tears, it makes you love her that much more.
- Come up with a list of offenses that will definitely get you spanked. Schedule periodic "check ins" at least once a week to talk about whether any of those offenses have occurred since the last session. Agree that if any of the offenses took place, you WILL be spanked, period. We agreed that each offense would carry at least a certain number of swats with her big paddle, or at least a certain amount of time under the brush. She could decide to deliver a more severe spanking any time, but those pre-determined offenses had to be dealt with at least as severely as called for in our express agreement. We felt that agreeing up front to a very hard spanking for certain offenses would relieve her of some of the "What if I really hurt him" anxiety, while driving home that making me hurt badly enough to not repeat the problematic conduct is the whole idea. Find ways to build that sort of regularity into your spanking communications and practices.
Good luck to all those men (and women) who want this kind of relationship and are ready to try to get it. But, as I've said before, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it!
TOOLS OF THE TRADE
So, you have both decided you want a domestic discipline relationship. After sketching out the framework of your new arrangement, the next step is getting a tool or two to actually make it happen. It may not be quite as easy as it sounds, as described in the first entry of our User Stories, which is a slightly fictionalized version of my introduction to DD: http://disciplinedhubbies.blogspot.com/2013_03_01_archive.html.
Hair and Bath Brushes
As described, after my wife agreed to try using spanking for discipline, her first order was to buy and bring home an appropriate hairbrush.
That a hairbrush was her first tool of choice wasn't an accident. It was the tool of choice recommended on the old Disciplinary Wives Club website, which I had her read when I first broached the topic of domestic discipline, and it is surely the core of many DD fantasies. The problem is, a heavy wood hairbrush is not so easy to find these days. I spent well over an hour walking around our local shopping mall, trying to find one. I finally found one that was serviceable for a first tool, but it was really too light for hard punishment spanking.
But, it got us started. And, I do believe it is a good beginner's tool. Of course, it was not quite our first spanking implement. Before we started a true DD relationship, we had experimented a bit with spanking as sex play, using a leather paddle acquired from our local adult "novelty" shop. While perhaps a good way for true beginners to experiment with erotic spanking, the leather paddle usually is not going to be enough for a real discipline spanking. But, again, it is a start.
Today, years later, I still have not succeeded in finding a really sturdy, heavy hairbrush. I have found, however, a few vintage clothes brushes that work pretty well. Ebay can be a good source for that kind of equipment. If you're lucky, you might be able to find a vintage, antique wooden hairbrush or clothes brush. While some people may not like the thought of using secondhand tools, I personally find it intriguing that they may have been used at one time or another for the same purpose you have in mind. And, while I still have not found a really sturdy hairbrush, I did find a relatively nice brush substitute, through a vendor called Wood Rage. It is very sturdy and heavier than a normal hairbrush. While it makes for an effective spanking, it isn't quite as classic as a real brush, and it is quite obviously a spanking implement, as opposed to a real brush that can be left out on a counter in plain sight without raising suspicions.
That ability to leave an implement out in the open is a major advantage to hairbrushes and similar implements. Once it has been used to deliver a spanking, it your shared secret, your inside joke. It is an object you can leave sitting out in the open and every time he sees it, he will be reminded of the role you each play. It did not take us long to graduate to another such tool, and one that proved to be much more effective than the hairbrush. Namely, a heavy wooden bath brush. We got ours from the Body Shop. It was one of those purchases where I swear the sales girl gave me a knowing look as I put it on the counter and tendered my payment.
While it looks innocent enough, a bath brush can be a very serious implement. While some are flimsy, ours is very heavy and solid, with a long handle that allows for a stronger, more vigorous swing than the hair brush.
Next, if you are into serious domestic discipline, you are almost certainly going to want at least one larger paddle for more serious punishment, sometimes what we refer to as stand-up sessions." Unfortunately, this is an item that you are not going to be able to find at your local shopping mall or even at most adult "toy" shops. There are, however, several reliable sources on internet. Some of the vendors we have used include PaddleWerks, Wood Rage and Spanking Paddles by Walt. This is an area where I would advise spending the money to get something not only serviceable, but attractive. It should be made of quality hardwood, such as oak, hickory or walnut. We have collected several over the years, with our most frequently used is a 22-inch fraternity-style paddle, with holes. It is displayed below with a few of our other tools:
You will probably want a few high-quality leather straps for your collection. They come in almost endless varieties and levels of severity. The one pictured below is a particularly nasty piece, called a "prison strap", that I actually do not recommend because it is too heavy and difficult to use. Instead, we tend to use something called the Domestic Discipline Strap, purchased from The London Tanners:
It is about 20 inches long and 2.5 inches wide. Like most high-quality instruments, it is not cheap. But, these are tools that will last for many years.
So you want to get serious?
There may come a point where you decide that your partner needs something to really get his attention. For that purpose, my wife's personal favorite is the Loopy Johnny, again from The London Tanners:
It looks deceptively innocent -- just a looped piece of leather with a handle attached. But, I can attest that it is a very nasty piece of work. Until recently, I considered it to be perhaps the most formidable tool in her arsenal. That place of honor is now reserve, however, for another deceptively modest looking implement, the Slick Slim, from a vendor called Adam and Gillian:
It is a small tool, only an inch wide, but the business end is made of 1/4-inch thick neoprene rubber, and I just cannot describe how much it hurts.
Many of our readers will also recommend the traditional English cane for serious correction. You will see several of them in our collection pictured above, though we seldom use them. As discussed in one of my posts, my wife has just never really been able to get the hang of using a cane for a really serious punishment, and we have essentially given up. However, there are so many people who testify to their effectiveness, it is definitely worth giving one a try. One recommended source is an internet shop called Cane-iac.
The sections above list several vendors of implements that we have used personally and had good luck with. Please understand, however, that I do not have a commercial or other relationship with any of them and I cannot vouch for their quality on an ongoing basis. I can say that in each case, the order has arrived promptly, and the goods have been high quality and as represented. They have also been good about communicating promptly by email if there has been any problem with an order, such as a paddle no longer being available in a certain kind of wood. As noted above, some of these tools are not cheap. But, choice of material and high-quality craftsmanship shows, as does its opposite. With any luck, your domestic discipline relationship will last for years, and you want tools that will as well. Also, I am convinced that a well-made tool is more likely to be a well-used tool, i.e. the disciplinary woman is more likely to look forward to swinging a thick, beautifully crafted antique brush or paddle than some cheap novelty-store, mass produced junk. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for.
HOW HARD IS HARD ENOUGH?
As Aunt Kay of the Disciplinary Wives Club used to say in her Tips & Methods section, "A spanking should be an event to remember." There is a good reason that those who grew up in homes, or attended schools in certain areas of the country, where corporal punishment was the norm, may have heard some variation on, "You are going to be feeling this every time you sit down for a week."
While disciplinary relationships may (or may not) have erotic overtones, a true disciplinary spanking is not at all the same as an erotic spanking. It should hurt. A lot. The entire point is for it to hurt. A punishment spanking is just that. Punishment. It needs to be severe enough that he really wants to avoid a similar experience in the future and that she feels empowered and vindicated.
Although such marking is a natural part of a disciplinary relationship involving spanking, it may cause some trepidation, particularly on the part of the disciplinary woman. That "I'm worried about hurting him" thing again. And, again, you need to remember that if he wants the reality of a disciplinary relationship, as opposed to some femdom fantasy, a bruised bottom is just part of that reality. Although it may take some getting used to, over time you may both come to see visible marks that last for days as badges of honor flowing to both of you. To the man for making amends for his transgressions in a very tangible way and for accepting his wife's discipline no matter how hard it may be. To the woman for caring enough to enforce the rules you have both agreed to.
Did you hear what I said?
Not as sorry as you are going to be.
We will discuss this later.
Bring me the paddle.
Down on all fours and don't get up until I see tears of remorse.
I don't see tears. Does that mean you need the cane?
So what did he do this time?
I am going to blister your behind.
I am going to set your bottom on fire.
You are going to be much sorrier.
I bet you will be good - after I finish blistering your behind.
I sure hope you won't do it again - God help you if you do.
Stop? (with increduality) Oh no, dear, we're just getting started.
You really should be ashamed that I'm having to paddle your behind like this - will you ever grow up?
Of course it hurts - you should have remembered that before misbehaving again.
There are no limits on my authority to spank you, anytime, anyplace for any reason –got that.
You have a naughty little boy inside you and when he comes out it’s my job to teach him how to behave.
You are going to be severely punished.
Lose it. (referring to a pre-spanking erection)
Do you want me to take you upstairs and pull your pants down?
One more word and I will ...
You are going to get such a sore bottom when we get home.
You just carry on with that attitude, just carry on...
We are going upstairs now as you definitely need a resetting.
I'll take care of that.
You know that's punishable.
You're too smart for your britches, and those britches are coming down.
Assume the position.
Time to bring me the paddle.
I promise this is going to be ass blistering that you won't soon forget - you'll be lucky if you can sit down for the next week."
Now go cut me a switch.
Of course it hurts. It is supposed to hurt.
Our company should be here soon, dear. Time to bring me the paddle so we can make sure you remember to behave.
And you're going to be even sorrier.
Why don't we discuss this at length, on Friday over dinner.