Saturday, July 23, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 167 - Freedom in Submission

"A submissive gives up control for freedom.  A Dominant gives up freedom for control. - Unknown

Hi all. Welcome back to the Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  I hope you had a great week. 

It was a good discussion last week, though I seem to be in a distinct minority in questioning whether wider acceptance of TTWD might have some downsides.  But, that's OK.  As shown again below, there are some things involved in this lifestyle where I am in the minority, but it's a wide world.

A few weeks ago, I saw the quote above on another blog.  The author of that blog, Domina Jen, said it is a well-known teaching in the BDSM or D/s community.  I'll take her word on that, as it's a community I haven't personally frequented except to the extent it includes our interactions on this blog.  In two short sentences, it seemed to sum up for me what I get out of Domestic Discipline, or at least what I am looking for out of it.  We have had a lot of discussions on this blog about the extent to which people who participate here are spanking fetishists for whom DD is an extra element added on top of the spanking, or whether the underlying driver is the need to give up control while spanking is more of a tool to get there or part of the process for giving in.  For me personally, it is pretty clearly the latter.  We don't do erotic spankings, and spanking was never "a thing" for me until I stumbled on the concept of domestic disciple.

Since then, I have not been able to do a particularly good job in articulating how it is that there is a sense of freedom in handing over control to someone else.  At surface level, it should be just the opposite and, yet, it's not.  At least for me.  While part of me does fight having boundaries imposed on me, there also is a palpable sense or relief and something like a sense of increased freedom when she really takes over.

Conversely, for the wives who assume control, does that give you a sense of freedom, or is that something you give up?  Is it freeing to make the decisions without need to check with someone else?  It seems like it should, though I recognize that I just got through saying it works the opposite for me.  Assuming that, as the quote indicates it comes along with a certain exchange between freedom and control--because you are now taking on additional responsibility and leadership--is that trade-off something you feel comfortable with?

I hope you all have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us a little about yourself (anonymously is fine if that's your preference).

Saturday, July 16, 2016

Vol. 166 - Should We Remain Odd

“If it is the dirty element that gives pleasure to the act of lust, then the dirtier it is, the more pleasurable it is bound to be.”― Marquis de Sade, The 120 Days of Sodom

 Hi all.  Welcome back to The Forum: Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Last week's topic was about one specific variant of the theme of "openness," namely how open people would be sharing their DD lifestyle with their adult kids.  It was a good conversation and, as I anticipated, there were widely varying views.  It also ranged into some related areas, such as vindictive spouses letting out the secret during divorce proceedings (a risky move, given that using a paddle in DD fashion could be an assault under the laws in some states -- hint hint to anyone who might think of engaging in such a despicable breach of trust) and, on the other end of the trust spectrum, Peter overcoming his embarrassment to trust a friend in need with the secret to his marital success.

This week's topic is somewhat related.   A few weeks ago, Alan observed that it would be good if sometime in the future society was comfortable with a woman being openly in charge and her man being openly submissive.  Men are certainly doing their part to hasten that day, with our behavior seemingly going from bad to worse.  The plain fact is, the statistics are clear that women are increasingly beating our asses in the race of life, pun very much intended.  Women are being admitted to college in greater numbers than men.  They are graduating from professional programs in rates greater than men.  Just a generation ago, women had virtually no presence in American law schools, but they now graduate in numbers greater than men. Books are even being written about the bad track men are on.  A fascinating one to add to your summer reading list is The End of Men: And the Rise of Women by Hanna Rosin.  It doesn't leave much doubt about why women seem to be increasingly comfortable saying, "My house, my rules."

Now, all of that is probably music to the ears of the crowd who reads this blog.  But, should it be?  Would a society that was more openly Female Dominated be a good thing?  And, to Alan's comment, what about openness in general about This Thing We Do?  Maybe surprisingly for a guy who writes a blog devoted to promoting DD and FLR relationships, I am pretty firmly on the fence about whether more openness would be a good thing.  On the one hand, tolerance of other lifestyles is almost always a good thing.  But, I'm not really talking about tolerance, so much as genuine acceptance and adoption of DD and FLR lifestyles.  The fact is, while the perceived need to keep these things private does inhibit us in publicly expressing our FLR bent, I kind of like the secret aspect of it.  Dictionary definitions of "kinky" include "relating to, having, or appealing to unconventional tastes especially in sex."  Well, who the hell wants to be conventional?   And if everyone starts doing it, then it is by definition, conventional.  For me, I am not sure that being in  this lifestyle would have quite the same appeal if everyone else was doing it and if it was fully accepted by everyone else out there in the vanilla world.

So, that is today's topic: Would more openness to and greater adoption of DD and FLR lifestyles by the wider society be a good thing? Is it something you want?  Or, is part of the attraction to DD and FLR that they are, in fact, not the norm and that there is something unconventional, and dare I say naughty and kinky about them? If the taboo were removed, would that necessarily be a good thing for you and your DD and FLR relationship?

Have a great week!  As always, if you are new to our group, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us a little something about yourself.

Saturday, July 9, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 165 - Through the Generations

"You’re used to difficult women. To struggle. Perhaps you like it when they give you a bad time. Every treasure is guarded by dragons. That’s how you can tell it’s valuable.… ” -- Saul Bellow

Hi all.  Welcome, or welcome back, to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women to talk about and promote adult domestic discipline and FLR relationships.

I hope you all had a great week.  It was another grueling one for me.  I could really use some time off right now, but there's just no end in sight for the foreseeable future.  Of course, if I wasn't busy, I would be whining even more about that. 


We have talked from time to time about how to work DD around the presence of kids in the household, and we've shared ideas about how to mete out well-deserved discipline without the kids overhearing.

But, what about once they are grown?  Is the DD or FLR side of your relationship something that should be kept from them once they are off on their own?

We are often reluctant to share this part of our life with anyone.  But, particularly if it is something that you think helped your own marriage, should you share that with your adult kids so they can also get the benefits of it?  Those benefits could potentially apply to either a daughter who needs to take charge of her own ill-behaved husband, or maybe you are a realist parent faced with the proposition that your darling son (or daughter) could themselves profit a bit from being on the receiving end of the marital paddle or hairbrush. 

There are probably going to be a wide range of opinions on this one.  I am pretty firmly on the fence, though tilting a bit more toward being selectively open about it.  Holly's posts always get me thinking about this, though it's been on my mind lately for a variety of reasons.

One of Holly's observations last week was that while her husband has grown as a result of domestic discipline, so has she.  Those opportunities for mutual growth are one reason I believe in TTWD, and why I see it as being at its best when used to balance out the extremes.  Domineering or out of control men get taken down a peg and taught some hard lessons.  On the other end of the paddle, a wife who may have once felt powerless or timid may develop into a strong and capable leader.

So, isn't that something we would want for our adult kids as they move out into the world and experience their own inevitable marital and personal challenges? Even if we thought it was something that needed to be kept private while they were growing up, do those same concerns still apply later in life?

As I said, my own attitudes on this have evolved a lot over time.  I once just sort of assumed this is a private activity and should be kept that way.  But, I also believe that domestic discipline and, increasingly, being the man in a Female Led Relationship, is a core part of who I am and what I want to become.  Yet, concerns that kids could overhear a spanking, or see her in full "boss" mode have  been the #1 impediment over time to us deepening and broadening this aspect of our relationship. 

A few weeks ago, I put at the top of the post a quote I saw a few weeks ago that really stuck with me for  some reason.  Here is an abbreviated version:

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. 

Isn't that kind of of what our DD and FLR wives do when they hide that part of themselves because of concerns it will make someone, including our progeny, uncomfortable?  And ironically, if DD or FLR has really helped our own marriages, are  we doing our adult kids a disfavor by not sharing it with them?
I hope you all have a great week. As always, if you are new to our Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD and FLR relationship or aspirations.

Saturday, July 2, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 164 - Turning Points

 “I hate men who are afraid of women's strength.”― Anais Nin. 

Hi all.  Welcome, or welcome back, to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering to talk about and promote adult domestic discipline and FLR relationships. I hope you all had a great week and that those of you in the U.S. are off enjoying this long holiday weekend with friends and family. Have fun, and be safe.

Is it just me, or have we had some great discussions the last couple of weeks?  I'm sorry that I got around to responding to several of you only today.  It was a crazy week for me at work, really burning the candle at both ends.  While I didn't get around to responding to them right away, I do want to give a shout-out to J Girl and Willow, two members of our extended community who left  some great comments about how discipline and punishment work for them.  While their relationships are M/f oriented, it has been a great experience for me to get to know them a bit through their blogs and comments like those they left this week.  It's been interesting coming to understand their perspectives, as I started to see the common threads in these relationships and to realize that it isn't only hard-charging, intense men who feel the need to have boundaries imposed and who crave discipline for bad behavior.  It seems that many similarly intense women have those same needs, and it wasn't until recently that I understood that while our genders may be different, the personality traits involved in these relationships really cut across gender lines.  While I think I will always keep the primary M/f focus of this blog, if for no other reason than there aren't many blogs out there with that particular bent, I think it is great to get perspectives from all those who gravitate to these kinds of relationships.  If I can put my finger on one thing that has improved the quality of this blog over the last year, it is the extent to which it has gotten real participation from both genders and from people on both ends of the paddle.

Regarding the substance of last week's topic, I woke up this morning (the 4th, so I've updated this from the original post), with a thought of how to sum up why I don't find discipline as "payback" an offensive concept, while some clearly do.   If I could put it in the mouth of a Disciplinary Wife, it might go something like this: "When you act like a jerk or do bad things and get away with it, everyone but you pays for your misbehavior.  Everyone else suffers because you do bad things or shirk your obligations.  Since all real change comes from within, I can't necessarily make you change.  But, if I have the authority or sufficient will, I can make you pay a price when you don't, which is fair because otherwise everyone but you pays a price for your misdeeds, and what is fair about that?   I'm just making sure you pay part of the price you otherwise force on others."  Or, words to that effect.

A few weeks ago, we heard from Pat, a Disciplinary Wife who left this comment:

"Very early in our Dd relationship he behaved outrageously at a neighborhood party embarrassing me with his loud and tasteless " jokes" after I gave him several warnings. I excused us and took him outside where I told him he was going to be severely punished which I did when we got home. I wasn't sure yet he would submit but he did. After some " remorse time" I made him go back to the party where I assure you he didn't sit down the rest of the night. That night was probably when I made a serious commitment to DD. I have never had to do anything like that again.But he knows I would if he pushed me.
Pat"


The underlined portion forms the basis for today's topic:  Various experiences brought us to our DD, FLR and D/s relationships, but was there a particular moment when you thought, "Wow.  This is real."  Or, a particular event or moment when your commitment to it solidified, or where it really took on the character it has today? Tell us all about it.  It was, by the way, pointed out to me that this one is a little repetitive. Probably.  It's the holiday weekend after a long week.  My inspiration was running low.

I also neglected to open up for discussion the latest poll results.  This one focused on how long people have been in their DD relationships:

Not in one
            10 (11%)
A year or less
            18 (20%)
1 - 5 years
            21 (24%)
5 - 10 years
            13 (15%)
10 or more years
            24 (27%)

Now, having opened up the point for discussion, I'm not sure what to say about it.  That was how I felt when I posted it, by the way.  I didn't see it as anything very revealing; just wanted to get a little more insight into our community.  The distribution of responses is pretty even, to the point that if any differences are statistically significant, it's probably because the sample size was so small (86 votes).  Still, it is somewhat heartening that the highest number of votes was from people who have been in these relationships for 10 years or more.  I have also posted another poll, focusing on the extent to which people mix erotic and disciplinary spankings.

If you have a moment, you might want to check out a blog called: https://dominajen.com/.  The current post, involving needle play, is very BDSM and not my thing.  But, to each his own.  She has some pretty interesting posts. I especially liked this one, from a post called Punishment in the day to day in which she quotes another blogger:
Anyone who’s suffered through a lengthy drive in silence can attest to the fact that punishments exist in conventional relationships. However, behavior is coded in faux-egalitarianism and therefore erratic and often arbitrary. In contrast, those living in a lifestyle BDSM relationship usually have an explicit binary of power and specific rules which, if broken, lead to a submissive being punished. Punishment is not an exclusively D/s thing.  Regulated punishment is an exclusively D/s thing.
Well said.

As always, if this is your first time to The Forum, please consider stopping by our Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.

I hope you all have a great holiday, enjoy each other, and be safe.


Dan

Saturday, June 25, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 163 - Rehabilitation v. Punishment?

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. - Marianne Williamson

 Hello all  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating, or interested in participating, in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week. Mine was a little stressful, because of some interactions on the job front.  It brought to mind Marisa's observation from last week: "That "humbling function" allows you to let go of that ego, accept authority and become the (mostly) wonderful, charming and loving men you really are It frees you to be yourself and that is what we are after."  On the surface, it may seem a little inconsistent with the quote above, which is all about not dumbing yourself down just so others will feel more comfortable.  But, as Marisa's point emphasizes, it is hard to let the "real" you come through when your ego keeps getting in the way.  It used to bother me a little that there might be some inconsistency between disciplining someone for bad behavior, and the acceptance and peacefulness I was exploring through things like meditation and mindfulness.  I then remembered that Zen masters often "help" trainees meditate -- by hitting them with a stick!

Last week's discussion was great.  One of the best we've had in a while in terms of sheer entertainment.  It reinforced to me that compared to some of you, my DD relationship is downright boring.  When I first posted that topic, I thought it might not get much response because few people might have experienced being taken out of an event and punished.  But, it seems to be more common than I thought, and I am incredibly happy that we suddenly have so many strong and assertive women participating in this Forum and taking those kind of assertive actions to keep their men in line.
  
From time to time, we get a question about whether DD "works," and it is usually clear from the context that the reader is defining "works" in terms of does it eliminate the behavior that led to the discipline session.  There seems to be an unstated assumption that eliminating the behavior is THE goal of domestic discipline.  But, is it?  Why make that assumption?  There is a long-standing, and probably unresolvable,  debate in the criminal justice community about whether the goal of our justice system is rehabilitation, deterrence, punishment, or maybe all at the same time.  So, why assume that the entire goal of DD is deterring future bad behavior? Might another legitimate goal just be punishing the past act?  Allowing the wife to express her disapproval in a way that really makes an unmistakable point? And, from the other side of the paddle, how about wanting some penance and consequences.? There is this assumption that wanting to be spanked is inconsistent with "real" discipline, but isn't that true only if you don't allow that the recipient may have an unmet need for consequences and enforced boundaries?  Inviting consequences is not the same as being very sorry when you actually get them.

In terms of whether it really is deterrence that motivates us, I got curious about the extent to which the deterrence idea was prevalent in the stories on the Disciplinary Wives Club website, given how many of us have been influenced by it.  It's hard to say that those stories really reflect any premise that Domestic Discipline serves any one particular goal.  Many of the men are spanked for repetitive bad behavior, so while there is a theme of escalating the punishment to reduce the behavior, there doesn't seem to be a notion that all bad behavior will go away by virtue of being in a Domestic Discipline relationship, or even that it actually will be reduced.  It was also interesting to note the extent to which, while we have talked a lot about the importance of consent, in many of the stories it is either the wife who imposes the disciplinary relationship, or the man may ask for it but she quickly gives him "more than he bargained for."  So, while in theory we may say that deterrence is the goal, our motivation, as reflected in the actual content of stories that inspired many of us to pursue this lifestyle, seems a lot more complicated and often seems to involve being involuntarily subjected to a real consequence for bad behavior, regardless of whether it succeeds in deterring us in the future.

That was a very long-winded way of introducing the topic of, in your relationship is DD mainly about reducing certain behaviors?  Exclusively?  Primarily?  Or, is it as Marisa says, also about humbling and personal growth?  Is it also about penance?  Boundaries and consequences?  And, from the other side of the paddle, is it only about correcting behavior, or also about being able to express dissatisfaction?  Or about growing your own sense of power and authority?

By the way, there is a great discussion on whether "wanting" punishment is inconsistent with actually being punished, from the M/f side of DD, on the Taming of the Shrew blog: https://ashrewtamed.blogspot.com.

Have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us a bit about yourself and your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship.
 

Saturday, June 18, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 162 -- Taken Aside

 Some women fear the fire.  Some simply become it.  -- r.h. Sin.

Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships. I hope you had a good week.

Last week's topic, focusing on "empty nesters," didn't seem to generate much interest.  Maybe there aren't as many of them out there as I thought, despite the fact that may of our readers report being in the post-50 year-old demographic.  Maybe there are just fewer empty nesters than I supposed given the age demographics, because while there are lots of more senior readers, those darn Millennials just won't leave??


A few weeks ago we talked about whether immediacy is a goal in discipline, i.e. is it important to correct a problem on the spot.  Extending that topic a bit, have you ever been taken out of an event, such as a party or other function, and at some point during the festivities been taken aside for a well-deserved spanking?  Perhaps escorted into a convenient dressing room or store bathroom for a quick correction on a shopping trip?  

Or, maybe taken to a private room during a party so some boorish behavior could be dealt with?

Or perhaps forced to leave the event for a quick trip back home to take care of business?

If something like this has happened to you or if you've imposed it on your partner, please tell us all about it.  If not, what would your likely reaction be if it happened?

I have not myself experienced anything quite like that.  The closest we have come is she once made me leave work and come home for a spanking then sent me back to work to sit all day on a very sore bottom.

I hope you have a great week.  As always, if you are new to our Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us something about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.

Saturday, June 11, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 161 - The Empty Nest

Hello all. Welcome back to this week's edition of The Forum -- Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of people who are in, or interested in being in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.  I hope you all had a great week and are enjoying your weekend.  Thanks for joining.

It's summer time.  For those with school age kids, finding "alone time" for domestic discipline and other adult activities may have become even more challenging.


But, what about those whose child rearing days have come and gone?  According to the last demographic poll we did, a large majority of our readers are over 50, though with the rise of the Millennial "failure to launch" generation, I realize it certainly is not a given that even "adult" kids will actually get out from of the house and on to bigger and better things. But, some of you out there have gone through the long-anticipated arrival of "empty nest."  For moms and dads into domestic discipline, perhaps for the first time in years there is real privacy and real flexibility regarding the time and place for DD activities.  For those who have had or wanted the wife to take over as a 24/7 Head of Household, perhaps concerns about the kids observing that more explicit command structure have suddenly been removed.

So, this is a question for the older domestic discipline practitioners among us.  What impact did the children leaving your home have on your DD relationship?  Did spankings become more frequent?  Did a previously timid spouse suddenly step fully into the role of HoH or disciplinarian?  Tell us all about the changes.

As always, for those of you who are new to this Forum, please take a moment to leave some comments in the Guestbook (tab above). 

Finally, I am going to be stuck in some concentrated work activity next week and may be slower than usual to approve incoming comments.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

Saturday, June 4, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 160 - Let's Talk About Sex (Again)

 Everything in the world is about sex, except sex.  Sex is about power. -- Oscar Wilde

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and woman who are participating or interested in being in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.

First, thanks to all of you for continuing to visit with us every week.  While I was in a bit of a snit last week about some of the downsides, our one millionth page visit is still a milestone worth noting.  So, while notoriety is not without its problems, I do thank each of you who make this blog part of your weekly routine, particularly those who pipe up with comments or who take time to tell us a little about yourself in the Guestbook.  Thanks for your time and for helping encourage people who are new to, and maybe a little skittish about, this idea of adult discipline and F/m relationships.

A couple of our contributors have recently suggested sex-oriented topics, though with kind of opposing themes.  Anna suggested talking about the role of sex in Domestic Discipline, while Alan suggested forced chastity and orgasm control/denial.  While I am probably screwing myself out of future topic material by combining them, let's make this week a bit of a free-for-all where the topic of DD and FLR and sex is concerned, under the broad heading of "What role does sex play in your DD or FLR relationship, and vice versa?"


In other words, let's look at it from both angles: (i) What role do sexual related issues and themes play in how you approach your DD and FLR relationships; and (i) what impact do those lifestyles have on your sex life?  Some issues to ponder:

--  To what extent is domestic discipline something that overlays a more fundamental spanking fetish?
--  Are sexualized practices, rituals, dress, etc. part of your discipline sessions?
--  Does sex often accompany a discipline session whether after:



Or perhaps before?



-- Do your DD or FLR "rules" include sexual-related prohibitions or practices, like forbidding masturbation or imposing some form of forced chastity?
--  Does practicing the DD or FLR lifestyle help energize your sex life?  Does it have any negative impact (other than the obvious impact on our upturned bottoms)?
-- For the women especially, does taking on a more powerful role in the marriage, including something like a real Head of Household position, make you feel more sexually powerful or turned on?

For myself, I don't deny that there is a mix of sexual and non-sexual elements that underlie our DD relationship.  If I have to pick one as more fundamental than the other (the disciplinary aspects versus the sexual component) though, just looking at the sequence of events that led us to DD, it seems like the interest in being disciplined preceded, and caused, the sexual reaction.  For others, probably a big majority, it seems to work the other way: the spanking fetish or interest precedes the discovery of domestic discipline.  People also seem to be all over the map on the extent to which sex is part of the actual discipline event.  Regarding whether it has improved our sex life, I think it has improved her sense of self-confidence, which to me is always sexy.  Overall, in terms of the extent to which sex is the motivator or underlying force charging our domestic discipline and FLR relationship, I noticed as I was looking for appropriate artwork for today's post, that I often gravitate to drawings that are the least sexualized and that, instead, involve a strong and confident woman just "taking care of business."

Or, "getting the job done."
That may, or may not, be an indicator of the relative balance of sex and discipline as fundamental to my interest in this lifesytle.

I hope you all have great week.  As always, if you are new to the Forum, please drop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little bit about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship or experiences.


Saturday, May 28, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 159 -- The Worst

We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret or disappointment. Jim Rohn
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/discipline.html
 "Of course it hurts.  It's a spanking."
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret or disappointment. Jim Rohn
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/discipline.html

Hi all. Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives. I hope you had a good week.  Mine got crazy busy at the end, so I apologize for not responding to all the comments.  I just ran out of available hours in the day, then I ran out of days in the week and it suddenly became time for a new topic.

I can't say anything in particular inspired this week's topic.  It is sort of a natural offshoot of our polls about severity, but instead of focusing on what we want, it focuses on what we have actually had.  Namely, what is the hardest, worst, most severe, hardest to take spanking or other discipline you have received or doled out?  What led to it, and what impact did it have on you?

For a description of a really exceptional punishment spanking, visit the DWC website and look for "How I am Spanked" under the "Real People" menu.  Make sure you go to the authentic version of the DWC:  http://www.auntkaysdwc.com/.  Another that describes a very hard one can be found here: http://www.femaleledrelationships.com/various-stories/woman-likes-to-spank-men-until-they-cry-fm-spanking-story


Have a great week.  Finally, as always, if you are new to the Forum, please drop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us something about yourself.

Saturday, May 21, 2016

The Forum, Vol. 158 -- Anticipation

Of all the hardships a person had to face, none was more punishing than the simple act of waiting.” -- Khaled Hosseini, A Thousand Splendid Suns


Happy weekend everyone.  Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives, our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a good week.


We had a good discussion last week about severity and intensity.  I hope it had the desired effect of giving wives who are new to this some reassurances as they ramp up the intensity, while not imposing on them any expectations beyond "do what seems right to you as you work your way along this path."  Near the end, Alan and I started going down another discussion about origins, which I admit I find endlessly fascinating.  I'll highlight one of my observations, in case people don't have time to peruse the previous topic, because I had never quite thought of the extent to which there seems to be a significant discrepancy between how most people come to this lifestyle and the way that lifestyle is portrayed in one of the sources that brought many of us to it.  My observation was: "Face it, humans are complicated creatures, and I reject the notion that we function like biologic computers where there are just inputs and outputs and if you could see the source code you could figure out exactly how input A caused output B. Your thoughts on the genetic trigger did raise one other thought with me: Is it interesting that the DWC has influenced so many of these relationships, yet it is in many ways the exact opposite of how most of them actually begin. Whether your genetic trigger theory is right or not, it does seem undeniable that in most cases, the interest in spanking pre-dates the interest in DD, and it is usually the man with that spanking interest who asks for the DD. Yet, a large majority of the stories on the DWC revolve around a woman getting fed up with bad behavior and imposing the DD lifestyle on a man who had no previous interest in spanking. The influence the DWC model has had is another indication to me that while the spanking interest is a key driver of these relationships, it is not the only one by a long shot, and the desire to be subject to someone's authority, along with the concept of imposed accountability, are additional and independent influences."  Enough said on that for now.

Last week's discussion was all about severity and intensity while being disciplined or controlled.  But, what about the time between the act and its consequences?  I'm talking about -- anticipation.  The mindset that occurs after you know you have done something deserving of punishment but before you receive your just deserts.   



It can happen over a short or long period.  Maybe you know you did something wrong, and you know you need to self-report though part of you doesn't want to.  Maybe you have self-reported, and you are waiting for her reaction. Or, maybe she has already pronounced the sentence and told you to get ready for her to get home.
  
Tell us your best example of anticipation and what it does to you mentally and emotionally.  What state does it put you in?  Scared? Exited?  Contrite?  Do you have any particularly strong memories of anticipating a particular punishment? I would also love to hear from the Disciplinary Wives on this one. What state does anticipating giving a spanking put you in?  Powerful?  Annoyed?  Turned on? 

I hope you all have a great week.  As always, if you are new to the Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and  tell us a little about yourself and your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship.  

Dan 

Saturday, May 14, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 157 -- Polls "More" or "Less"

 “The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it. ” -- Roseanne Barr

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  This is our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in domestic discipline or Female Led Relationships.

I hope you had a great week.  I assume that some of you did, or at least a busy one, since the number of posts has been down for a couple of weeks now.  I hope that is a reflection of folks having other competing priorities, and not a reflection on the last couple of topics.

A few weeks ago, as some of you saw, I had a little spat with someone whose main line of inquiry was, "Why must this be so harsh?"  To me, the very common sense answer was that the people who are genuinely into this lifestyle are, I presume, doing it for disciplinary purposes.  Hence the name -- Domestic Discipline.  For discipline to be effective, it needs to be unpleasant.  Therefore, it hardly seemed surprising that the community of readers of this blog would be heavily populated with people who are looking not just be spanked, but to be spanked very hard.  I also presumed that many men who want to be in a Female Led Relationship not only want to be controlled; they want that control to be firm.  Commanding even.

At around this same time, however, I was also getting some questions or comments from some of our Disciplinary Wives indicating they had some nagging doubts along the lines of "Does he really want this?" or "What if I do it harder or am more dominating -- is that what he really wants?"or "I'm worried that if I really take control he will resent me for it."

 So, since we had not done a poll on these issues in a while, I decided to put my presumptions to the test.  Last time we did some similar polling (over a year ago and with a smaller group of readers), the clear result was "more." In short, men wanted more and harder spankings, by a significant margin.  This time, I tried to get a little more granular to focus not only on the act of spanking, but to try to see what men want in terms of severity of discipline, the sternness of their partner's demeanor, and the extent of accountability.

The results are in, and they are not very surprising (at least to me), though they are interesting nonetheless.  The response rates varied slightly on the respective polls, but they averaged about 135 people, which is fairly high by our historical standards.  Here is what they had to say:

The disciplinary spankings I receive are:

Too hard
                       13 (9%)
Not hard enough
                       84 (63%)
Just right
                       36 (27%)


I wish my disciplinarian's demeanor toward me was:

More stern
       98 (71%)
Less stern
       4 (2%)
Her demeanor is just right
       35 (25%)


 In holding me accountable, my disciplinarian is:


Too strict                                 8 (5%)
Not strict enough                    105 (78%)
Just right                                 21 (15%)







The most obvious takeaway is, as our earlier polling is confirmed, men want it "more" and "harder."  Harder spankings, more stern demeanor, and being held accountable on a stricter basis.  This should give some assurances to any willing but hesitant dominants out there who have been holding back, thinking that their husbands may not want real discipline and control.  If they don't, then they are in the distinct minority.  Very few of our poll-takers thought their spankings were too hard, and even fewer wanted less accountability or less sternness from their disciplinary wives.  In fact, "more" and "harder" trounced the other categories.

Something that surprised me a little was the strength of responses wanting more accountability.  Almost 8 in 10 men wanted her to be more strict in holding him accountable.  I assumed it would be high, but in line with the other two questions.  But, it was almost 20 points higher than those wanting harder spankings.  It was also the area with the lowest number of men who are satisfied with the current state.

While it's easy to speculate and dangerous to read a clear message from a poll that, even with a pretty high response rate was still only about 10% of this blog's readers, some general, though tentative and qualified conclusions do seem to emerge:
  • Women, stop worrying that your husband is going to resent it if you give him that hard, disciplinary spanking that you have been reluctant to give.  Whether he will have one of those "why the hell did I ask for this" moments during the event is an open question, but you can at least rest assured that if your husband wants anything different in your DD relationship, you are probably safe in erring on the side of giving more, not less.
  • You also probably don't need to worry about being perceived as "bitchy" if you take firmer control and embrace that HoH role.  70% of the guys out there seem to want you to cut loose with that more authoritarian demeanor.
  • Your man wants you to hold him accountable.  So, when he screws up, don't waste time and energy pondering whether spanking him in this instance is "fair."  He very likely wants you to keep him more firmly under your thumb.
Finally, these results seem to provide a big reason to question the views of anyone who advocates that this is all just a spanking fetish.  Looking at the variances across the three polls, the desire to be held accountable and the need to be subject to stern command and control seem to be independent drivers of what the men who initiate this lifestyle are looking for.   So, while the spanking element may be a necessary piece of the puzzle for them, it's not sufficient and may not be what is really driving them to want this.

How about you?  Where do you come out on our polls?  Do you want it harder, stricter and tougher?  Do you want her to toughen the demeanor she uses when addressing your bad behavior?  If you were to give your wife feedback on what you want and need, would you tell her you want more and harder?  Or maybe it's already more than you bargained for? Or, maybe she's doing things just right?  For you, what does the ideal look like?


I hope you all have a great week.  If you are a newcomer here, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.

Dan

Saturday, May 7, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 136 - That Moment

"I'm tough, I'm ambitious, and I know exactly what I want. If that makes me a bitch, okay." ―Madonna

Hi all. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum -- our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Shakespeare asked "What's in a name?"  Apparently, quite a bit where a blog's masthead is concerned.  Some of you may have noticed a subtle change to the title posted at the top of the blog.  The former Disciplined Husbands Forum has become "The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives." It was one of those things I just decided to do, without putting a huge amount of thought into it.  It just seemed like time for a small tweak to signal that we welcome discussion from those on both ends of the disciplinary paddle.  In all honesty, I've never been all that wild about the original title anyway.  It really began as a compromise.  I wanted the blog to focus on domestic discipline (obviously) but I didn't want to step on the toes of the Disciplinary Wives Club, so I stayed away from the terms "wives" and "club."  I've gotten over some of that reticence or concern that this might be seen as a DWC rip off, as this blog found its own readership and as it became more and more clear that the DWC wasn't going to be updated anymore.  So, I made the Masthead change early this week, and with that one change, daily readership popped up by about a third.  The jury is out on whether that is a good or bad thing.  I like the thought that maybe this blog influences a few people to try the DD lifestyle, similar to the awakening the DWC provided for me.  On the other hand, the wider the readership the more trolls it attracts and the more it pops up in links on sites that may have material that isn't something I really care to be associated with.  But, I do think trying to be more openly inviting to women who are or might be into this is worth it.

Enough chatter about the blog.  I'm still having some serious writer's block, struggling to come up with new topics.  Hopefully some new ideas will arise, though there probably is some hard limit on how many original topics there can be for a blog devoted to a fairly tightly-defined relationship activity.  Now, thankfully, as our community has grown and more people chime in with comments, something worth exploring a little more often comes up.

This week's idea came from Darren, one of our newer commenters who has been hoping his wife will come to really embrace domestic discipline.  Last week he asked, "Was there a moment all the talking you had been doing as a couple all of a sudden made sense to her? And in that moment for the first time "reflexively" went to spanking as the natural resolution in the moment."  A couple of people answered, but it seems like a question that merits an independent topic.  Was there a particular moment or event when your partner really "got" the role of disciplinarian, such that spanking you for real became her natural reaction to bad behavior?

A note on the Guestbook.  There are a couple of ways to do page tabs in Blogger, like the Guestbook and others at the top of this page.  Unfortunately, the one I originally chose for the Guestbook is kind of a pain, and as the number of comments grows, it got more unmanageable.  So, I have put up a new version, copying and pasting all the old entries into the new form.  Unfortunately, doing that doesn't preserve the profile links for those who didn't post anonymously.  But, the comments themselves are there.  If you are new to this group, please stop by the Guestbook and tell us a little about yourself.

I hope you all have a great week.

Saturday, April 30, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 135 -- Teaching Dominance

There are no good girls gone wrong - just bad girls found out.” -  Mae West


Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a great week and are enjoying the weekend.

Mine was -- a little overly dramatic -- as many of you saw in the last post.  Unfortunately, it carried over into another forum, and was just a massive distraction I didn't need this week.  And, honestly, one that I played a major role in maintaining, since I could have just deleted the damn comments and left it at that.  But, I just couldn't do it in the moment. I got caught up in the need to control the situation, which paradoxically could have been much more effectively controlled by simply refusing to engage at that level.   I really need to make this a bigger area of focus for our own DD relationship, making temper and control issues a bigger and more serious offense than they have been to date.  Anyway, we are all a work in progress, aren't we?

Which is a good segue into this week's topic.  Can dominance and control be taught or learned, if it isn't who you are at your core, or at least hasn't been part of your personality that you have been able to really express in the past?  A comment by Marisa on a post a couple of weeks ago got me thinking about this: "We found our way to DD through a crisis in our marriage, the next step would have been marriage counseling if we had not tried discipline. I am aggressive and take charge and that personality trait can't be taught."

I have no doubt that we all are hard-wired with certain innate levels of aggression and tendencies to "take charge."  But, for those who lack that innate bent, can it be developed?  Is it something you can get better at with practice?  Most importantly, is it something you can actually grow to like even if it wasn't a part of your personality earlier in life? Particularly with all the negative soclialization that women are subjected to where power and authority are concerned, are there many who may actually have aggressive and "take charge" wiring that has seldom been expressed but can be if she gives herself real permission to do it?

I thought about this again this morning in connection with a comment on our last topic, to the effect that one way to test the "fantasy" of DD versus the reality is to subject him to at least one really, really hard spanking and see if it is something he still wants a few days later.  Might it also work the same way for the would be "disciplinarian"?  Perhaps cutting loose the inner Disciplinarian by giving one very hard spanking, or spending a day or two in full-blown Head of Household mode, would test whether leadership and dominance are traits that have been dormant but that she would come to really enjoy if she gave them more free rein?

What do you think?  Can dominance be learned or taught?  Has that happened in your DD or FLR relationship?

If you haven't done so already, please take a minute to fill out the polls on your level of satisfaction with the "intensity" of various aspects of your FLR and DD relationships.  And, if you're new to this blog, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself. 

Dan



Monday, April 18, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 135 -- Fantasy versus Reality

[Note: Comment moderation has been enabled again, hopefully temporarily.  I apologize for the inconvenience, but your comments may be a little slow to post.]

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a great week and are enjoying the weekend.

I had originally intended to devote this week's Forum to the topic of whether being dominant can be learned, but I decided to put that one off for a week, because in the meantime I got a really wonderful email from one of our commenters that focused on the difference between the "fantasies" that may have led us to Domestic Discipline versus the reality of actually being a disciplined husband.  I have reprinted it below and made its themes this week's topic, because it summarized by own experience as well or better than I have ever been able to.

It was also well timed, as there have been a larger than normal number of comments here and in the Guestbook referring to "extreme" spankings, but in a context that makes it clear that what the author considers "extreme" is the "fantasy" that brought many of us to Domestic Discipline, namely a true disciplinary spanking that hurts enough to make us very sorry that we engaged in the behavior for which we are being punished.  There are aspects of that theme in the below, where the author talks about a spanking that is so hard and long that you don't think you can take it, but it is only when you realize that it is just beginning that you really give into it and experience what a true punishment spanking is supposed to be.  For some this remains only a fantasy, but for some it is the very essence of a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Because of what seemed to be a trend in the comments, I have posted three new polls that focus on what level of discipline and control people are looking for in these relationships.  I have done a variation on these before, but we have a lot more readers now and it seemed like a good time to test whether there is still a very strong bias in our readers towards wanting harder discipline, stricter accountability, and more rigorous control.  Another reason I wanted to repeat the earlier poll is some of the wives have expressed recently that one thing that may hold them back from really stepping into the HoH role is concern that he might change his mind once he experiences the reality and finds it quite different from the fantasy.  So, gents, if you want to reassure your Disciplinary Wife that this is what you really want, please fill out the polls and help deliver that message.

So, here is full post, from ZM.  From my perspective, it really is a fantastic summary of what brought me to, and keeps me in, a Domestic Discipline relationship:



Why do I need or want this?  I'm really not sure...
·      Maybe I need more clear boundaries, so life feels orderly and not out of control?
o   I didn't have any boundaries while growing up. Could it be that?
o   Maybe I just need the reassurance and orderliness of actions having consequences for the world to make sense? Of course they do, but it is not always as clear as "if this, then that..."
·      Maybe I want or need to change faster to become who I want to be and do what I want to do?
o   I am good, but I have huge dreams so I need to become ever better to achieve my goals.
o   Sometimes consequences are too long-term to change behavior effectively. For example, I know that if I eat less, I will lose weight, look better, be healthier, and live longer. But because these are all long term effects, it can be very hard to stay on a diet since I don't see immediate results.
o   Maybe I lack sufficient self-control, or I live too much in the moment? But for me to achieve my long term goals, I need short-term consequences to effect long-term change.
·      Maybe I sometimes need the closure of having paid for my transgressions?
o   Even if others forgive me, sometimes it is hard to forgive myself, and guilt accumulates.
o   There are few situations in life where wrongs are truly paid for (like speeding tickets)
o   Sometimes I just need to have a clean slate.
·      Maybe I get tired of being in charge, and need to be under someone else's control for a while?
o   It is lonely at the top, with everyone looking to me for answers all the time.
o   Maybe even though others look up to me, I know I am not quite as great as they think?
o   Or maybe I bully others sometimes, and need to feel what it is like to be bossed around?
o   Either way, making difficult decisions is tiring. It can be a relief to have all decisions out of my hands, even if only for a time.
It could be any, all, or none of these reasons.  I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter, because I do know that I crave "real" discipline, punishment, and control, that which most people would rather avoid. This need for control and discipline is a perpetual enigma which forever lives in the never-never land between fantasy and reality. My fantasy and reality are far apart and in direct conflict:
·      In my fantasy, boundaries are imposed and enforced.  In reality, I rebel against any boundaries.
·      In my fantasy, my actions have consequences.  In reality, I try to avoid negative consequences.
·      In my fantasy, I crave punishment.  In reality, I fear punishment. 
·      In my fantasy, I must give up control.  In reality, I love to be in control.
·      In my fantasy, I am weak and powerless.  In reality, I am strong and powerful.
I am incredibly fortunate because I have someone who loves me enough to understand and fulfill my unusual needs and desires. It is complicated by the fact that my fantasy needs it to be "real," but at the same time, we have a great relationship and equal partnership, so our reality needs it to be "fantasy." In the end, we allow the fantasy to enter our reality from time to time, but our relationship will never be in any way defined by it, but rather by our love for each other. We are loving, we are in love, and everything we do is inspired by love. Even the very firmness, strictness, harshness and at times almost meanness that she unleashes as part of this fantasy ultimately flow from our love for each other. It is very ironic that this fantasy which is based on power and control (both of which have absolutely no place in love) makes us ever closer to each other and more in love.
So here I am waiting, remembering the last time and anticipating the next, not knowing when it will be; It could be tomorrow, next week, or next month.  I crave it because the whole experience is unbelievably exciting, and not knowing when it will next happen only adds to the excitement.  At the same time I also fear the real emotion involved, since I don’t like disappointing her. As more time passes from the last punishment, the desire grows and I want it to happen again. But in order for it to have meaning, it has to be for real infractions and she has to have emotions to vent. Because I love her and only want to make her happy, I will never try to hurt her feelings, so infractions are not intentional, but rather things that I do without thinking or that result from my bad habits.  Also, because she is kind and understanding, she might not choose to punish me even when I deserve it.  However, living together inevitably ensures that infractions will happen from time to time, and at least at some of these times, she will be in the mood to use my fantasy to make her feelings clear.
When she decides to punish me, I am immediately overcome by powerful emotions as my fantasy collides with the reality of my impending punishment. My heart races and I feel a surge of adrenaline bordering on fear. I may think it is unfair or undeserved and try to defend my actions or plead my innocence, but ultimately, it was me who asked for this, who gave her this authority, and who said that her word is final, so I give in to the inevitable.  As soon as the punishment actually starts, everything becomes very real very quickly, and the fantasy is forgotten for a time, totally replaced by reality.  I am initially surprised by how it is more painful than I remembered from before, since I tend to forget the pain and remember only the experience (kind of like having a baby). At first, I try to fight the punishment and just endure until the end.  I am more focused on being strong  than thinking about why I am being punished. As the punishment continues, I start to feel like I can't take any more, and that it will never end.  But of course it doesn't end yet, since at that point true punishment is just beginning.  The pain, embarrassment, guilt and emotion keep building as the punishment progresses and they overpower all my defenses one by one, until in the end I surrender to and even embrace the punishment, knowing that I deserve it and need it. At that point, I relax and just absorb the lesson being taught.  Finally the punishment can end.
However real the punishment might have been, as soon as it is over, the conflict between reality and fantasy begins once again. Over the following days, the punishment (with all of the feelings of fear, excitement, pain, and embarrassment) is ever-present in my mind.  As I sit down, or perhaps as I walk, I feel the effects of the punishment.  The times I am not consciously aware of it, I am unconsciously replaying the punishment, what was said, what needs to change, etc. But as I remember what happened, I am seeing the reality of what happened through the lens of fantasy.  Yes it was painful, embarrassing, etc., but it was also very, very hot!
Again, THIS is why it works (at least for me). Even though I don't always understand this relationship between fantasy and reality, it is BECAUSE of this paradox that it is so powerful for me. As we walk over this bridge between fantasy and reality, it all at once fulfills my strongest fantasies, changes me,  and strengthens our love.
·      It greatly enhances communication. I hear and understand much better than if she just used verbal communication. Because of the sudden harshness and seriousness, and because it plays to my deepest fantasy, the issue is given maximum attention, but in a positive way, rather than negative. Rather than just try to evade the issue and make it go away, I actually listen. Since relationships are entirely dependent on communication, this is incredibly powerful and makes our relationship bulletproof.
·      It changes my thinking or my mindset about the situation or behavior. Over the days that follow, the whole scene and all the emotions of it is on constant replay through my mind, and I see the situation more clearly from her viewpoint. As my mindset changes, it changes my behavior.
·      It greatly increases intimacy. In life, I am strong and always stand up for her, provide for her, and protect her.  But for a time, I am completely vulnerable to her. This vulnerability enables intimacy which creates a bond that others will never feel.
·      It makes me love her and feel loved even more, because she cares enough about me to do anything and everything to make my fantasies reality. Sure, if she was just cold and distant, it would make a point, but I would be angry with her and would feel defensive and might pull away. Instead, she has made my fantasy reality, exactly at the time she might not feel much like doing me favors.  
Because she is using my own fantasy to communicate her own feelings, I fully hear what she says, I see things from a different perspective, I feel closer to her than ever, and it makes me want to meet her every need because of our deep love for each other.  This strengthens our relationship and empowers me to make changes that allow our lives to be better, happier, and less stressful as I become who I want to be and we achieve our dreams."
So, how does your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship deviate from the fantasy that led you to it or keeps you in it?  Are they conflict, or do they mutually reinforce each other, as they do for ZM?
 Have a great week, and if you are new to our Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.

Dan