Saturday, March 25, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 199 - Marking & Admirning


Strong women intimidate boys and excite men. -- unknown

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.

First, a shout-out to a fellow blogger who is in a DD relationship, but one of the M/f variety.  I have pointed to J Girl's blog, The Taming of the Shrew, a few times before.  Earlier this week she posted on a topic she entitled The Three Stages of a Dominant Submissive Dynamic.  https://ashrewtamed.blogspot.com/2017/03/hey-there-readers.html.  I thought it was an incredibly thoughtful portrayal of some of the ups and downs that real-life DD relationships almost inevitably go through.  Though, I will have to take her word on what Stage 3 might look and feel like.  We are, at most, somewhere in Stage 2, and I don't know whether we would actually want to take it to the Stage 3 she describes.  Perhaps.  But, it's hard to say.  I can't rule it out, since it was just a year or so ago that we started going beyond DD to a deeper Female Led dynamic.

This was one of those weeks that makes me question sometimes the extent to which I really do want this kind of relationship, while at the same time affirming why I need it.  It has been a couple of really tough weeks at work.  I've been traveling constantly.  Lots of after work socializing. I also had one of the people on my team go into full-blown Drama Queen mode, requiring me to play career counselor over several beers.  My way through all this was to go way Alpha, powering through this pretty dysfunctional time by sheer force of will powered by adrenaline and caffeine, followed by a lot of bad airplane wine as a stress reliever.  For a while, I actually started thinking, "This is who I am.  Part of me likes being this way, and it makes me good at what I do.  Maybe I just need to embrace it instead of trying to balance it or contain it."  Which is all well and good, until I hit a Saturday like this where I am so tired that it really feels almost like a form of psychosis, and I realize that living like that just isn't sustainable, and eventually something is going to break or I am going to break something or someone in a way that can't be fixed.  So, as much as I really don't want to be controlled or contained right now, I know that I need to be, and that I will be healthier for it.  But, I come to this realization just as Spring Break starts, meaning kids will be underfoot almost non-stop, making it harder for her to assert herself and get me under control.  Again, real life interferes with the fantasy.

Now, on to other things.  DWC Fred posted a great comment last week, describing his DD dynamic and how he is spanked.  He noted that his spankings generally leave his bottom marked for several days.  That is this week's topic.  Do your disciplinary spankings generally leave marks, welts or bruises that last more than a few hours?

(Yes, I realize this is a female bottom, but we do have a few M/f or F/f visitors.  And, this one was just too enticing not to share.)

Is marking or "blistering" an explicit goal?

When it is over, does your Disciplinarian inspect her handiwork?


Does she take pride in the tangible evidence of a job well done?


(He will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this one is one of our KD Pierre's pieces.  I have a link to his website over to the right.)

This is an area that has changed for us over time, not as a result of any change in the intensity of her spankings, but apparently due to a change in my physiology.  When we first started Domestic Discipline, any significant spanking would leave me very badly bruised.  That doesn't happen nearly as much now.  Even a really, really hard spanking may leave me with only a few visible marks the next day.  Interestingly, my bottom does look in bad shape immediately after the spanking, but the marks just don't last very long.  It also seems like my bottom has developed this non-bruising tolerance specifically to spanking.  I took a nasty fall a few weeks ago, and it left me literally black and blue across one cheek. 

My wife's reaction to this is also interesting.  It really didn't take her very long to get comfortable with giving a hard disciplinary spanking, and the bruising or marking has never seemed to make her squeamish.  She is very comfortable leaving visible evidence of her spanking prowess. In fact, she will sometimes make me drop my pants to show her the condition of my butt, and will express disappointment when the marking is gone a day or two later. 

I hope you all have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please take a moment to visit the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship or aspirations.

Saturday, March 18, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 198 - Attire

 If only my genitals didn't float when I relaxed in the bath.  And we both looked down and agreed it's stupid to be a man." - Leonard Cohen


Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.

I hope you had a great week.  Mine was really long and more stressful than I've had in awhile.  I was thinking back on it yesterday, and an out-of-town meeting I had on Monday seemed like it happened a month ago.  My entire team was just balls-out the entire week.  And that metaphor leads nicely into this week's topic, which was suggested by Merry's Shilo.  And, it's a pretty simple one:

When you're spanked, are you naked?  If so, are you expected to present yourself to her that way?
If undressing in front of her is part of the process, is that something you are expected to do yourself, or does she take more direct control of the disrobing process?

Or, are your spankings conducted with you at least partially clothed?
Does the amount of clothing matter based on position or location?  Such as over a bed you are naked but over a desk you are partially clothed?
How about you? What is your usual attire, or degree of lack thereof, during a spanking? What makes you feel more vulnerable - fully naked, pants off, or pants down around your ankles?  I don't have a basis for an opinion on this one, because I think all of ours have been with me totally naked.  I can't recall any that have involved pants down and around the ankles, though I could see that one actually adding some vulnerability, since it would also restrict mobility.

And, in the interests of not leaving our Disciplinary Wives out of this one, do you dress in any special way when delivering a spanking, or when you want to send a strong message about who is in control?

I hope you all have a great week.

Saturday, March 11, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 197 - Females Spanked

I can no longer obey.  I have tasted command, and I cannot give it up.  - Napoleon Bonaparte

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or FLR relationships.

Some of you may have seen a slightly different version of this week's post.  Blogger was doing some funky things with the fonts, and I couldn't figure out how to fix it, so I'm starting over.  I guess I can't gripe too much about a free tool.

As I said in the first version, I'm having another kind of uninspired week.  I think DD and FLR relationships, at least ones that are a work in progress (and aren't they all), all have their ebbs and flows.  We are kind of in an ebb right now.  Life is very busy for both of us.  I always travel a lot for business, and she also has been traveling a bit lately.  That always seems to impose a real headwind.  I also feel like I hit a saturation point on DD in general a few days ago.  Not practicing it, but thinking about it, blogging about it, engaging with trolls trying to post stupid, repetitive fantasies about it.  Honestly, I just sort of lost interest.  Today started that way.  I thought about taking a break, but decided to try to switch it up instead.

But, this week's topic is not about "switching" per se.  It's really the flipside of some of the discussions we've had about origins.  We've talked about whether the Disciplined Husbands in the group were spanked as kids and what influence that may have had on their interest in DD later in life.  Something we have not talked about, however, is whether our Disciplinary Wives were spanked as kids, or whether they witnessed spankings in the home, and whether those early experiences had any impact on their later interest in, or at least openness to, adult discipline and FLR.

So, ladies, how about it?



Were you yourself subject to some maternal discipline at home?
Were you yourself on the receiving end of some of Mom's "head of household" control and correction? In an aside that may or may not be interesting or telling, while I don't remember getting spanked very often myself as a boy, I do remember an older sister getting spanked, both at home . . .



and at school.  And, in our home, getting spanked at school definitely meant another at home.  How about for any of you ladies?  Spanked at school?  Spanked again at home?

Maybe you and a sibling were both subject to a spanking for some jointly engaged-in bad behavior? (Though I'm not sure that is what this drawing is meant to depict.)

 Maybe you witnessed a brother get one, or about to get one?

Or, maybe you were aware of F/m punishment and FLR earlier than some of us because you witnessed it at home or were aware it was going on?

What impact do you think these early spanking experiences had on your openness to giving a disciplinary spanking as an adult?  And, let's expand a bit beyond spanking.  How did the disciplinary environment you grew up in, whether including spanking or not, influence your interest in or openness to Domestic Discipline or Female Leadership?

I am glad that I did decide to blog this week instead of taking a break. As I went through the exercise, I felt the interest level rising a bit.  Some of it may be the visuals involved.  I sometimes struggle to find good drawings that illustrate a particular topic, but that is partially because there is such a dearth of good F/m art out there that depicts any real male vulnerability, fear, remorse, etc.  The ability to illustrate a topic with some good art opens up substantially if it involves females on the receiving end of the paddle.  

I hope you all have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by our Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us all a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship or aspirations.

Saturday, March 4, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 196 - Tools of the Trade

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.  - Abraham Maslow

Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led relationships.

Well, we've had some fairly heavy conversations lately.  I hope I didn't burn a bunch of people out, or finally offend them to their core, but it's a bad sign when even stalwarts like Anna and Peter don't comment.  So, I'll lighten it up a little this week and go in a more practical direction.  We've done it before, but we have a lot of new folks visiting each week and, as Darren has repeatedly said, some of the couples who are newer to the Domestic Discipline lifestyle can't get enough practical advice.

So, this week, let's talk about tools.  Implements.  Those things She uses to blister our bottoms.  We've talked before about things like "most feared," but let's each talk about those implements we each get spanked, strapped, paddled, etc. with most often, and the "advantages" and "disadvantages" of each from the perspective of getting her point across.  Here are tools my wife and I have used, and my succinct thoughts on each category:
  • Hairbrush: Iconic, but basically worthless. 
  • Bath brush: Totally different animal from a hairbrush.  Hurts like a mother&%$#@! 
  • Wooden paddles:  Something for everyone.  Iconic and, unlike a hairbrush, can hurt like hell.
  • Belts: Can be effective, but she has to swing really, really hard.
  • Leather straps: Generally much more painful than a belt, ranging from mild to OMG!
  • Loopy Johnny:  Stings pretty damn badly.  Leaves welts like a cane.
  • Rubber straps: If these don't get your attention, nothing will.
  • Cane: Has never worked well for us, but I'm not sure why.
It's interesting how with some of these implements, seemingly slight changes in weight or length can make a huge difference.  Same with quality.  Like with good tools in any trade, you get what you pay for.  Looking at them in a little more depth:

Brushes



Many of us probably came to DD, or were first attracted to it, when we read stories or saw drawings depicting OTK spankings with a determined woman whaling away with a wooden hairbrush.  The thing is, all those scary drawings and stories notwithstanding, it just isn't a very effective instrument.  Most women would need Amazon-like strength and stamina to make any real impression on any but the most pain-adverse misbehaving husband.


Now, one can buy real paddles in the approximate size and shape of a hairbrush.  If made from thick, heavy wood, they can be quite painful. And easy to fit in a purse those impromptu "corrections" when out on the town.

And then there is . . . the dreaded bathbrush.  I would be going weak in the knees knowing a determined and pissed off wife was walking up the stair with that in hand.

Compared to the hairbrush, it is just a different animal altogether, capable of delivering a truly painful, butt blistering experience.

Paddles


Then there is the instrument that haunts many a former schoolboy or fratboy's nightmares -- the wooden paddle.  They too come in all shapes and sizes.  From small "spankers" good for OTK action and for concentrating on one cheek:


To the more fearsome "Board of Education" or "fraternity" style paddles:

After ten-plus years in this lifestyle, I'm still learning things about paddles.  I used to assume that big, heavy paddles hurt the most.  Not true.  Recently, I decided to sink some money into a couple of really nice custom paddles.  The person I ordered them from asked me right away whether it would be used by a man or a woman, because some women just can't swing a really heavy paddle with a lot of force.  It was better to go with something a little smaller (14 - 15"), not extremely thick, but made of a very hard wood.  I can testify from very painful experience, that was very wise advice.  The newer ones we are now using are much, much more painful than some of the larger paddles made from lighter (and cheaper) wood, such as ash.  One caveat with paddles -- I think they tend to be better used at the end of a long session, not at the beginning, because they can make me go numb after a while, thereby defeating the purpose of a hard disciplinary spanking.  Also, as for leather paddles -- totally worthless for anything but mild "funishment" scenes.

Leather Straps


Like paddles, leather straps come in all shapes and sizes.  For couples new to disciplinary spankings, by all means, start with a leather belt, but I think many couples graduate beyond them fairly quickly.  I realize they can be effective in some positions (face down on a bed, with a very vigorous downward swing) but many are too light, and she has to deliver a really serious swing even with heavier belts in order for it to have much real impact.

Real leather punishment straps are entirely different.  They are usually made from thick "harness" leather -- much heaver and more rigid.  The one my wife uses on me most often is similar to the 6th from the left in the picture above.  While not as "off the charts" painful as some of her other instruments, it definitely can get the job done when swung with purpose.  We did, by the way, try something like that big boy in the middle -- the long one with holes.  It's called a "prison strap."  While it is the centerpiece of one of my strongest spanking memories (early on in our DD relationship, she called me at work and ordered me to come home at lunch for a strapping, then sent me back to work to sit the rest of the afternoon on a very sore bottom), it was just too long and clumsy to handle safely and effectively.


Then there is this nasty little variant on a strap.  For those unfamiliar, it is called a "loopy johnny." They come in different varieties, including single and multiple loops and different materials.  It may not look that threatening, but it delivers the proverbial "sting like a hornets nest." Definitely not for the faint of heart.

 

Which brings us to . . . rubber straps.  I said last week that we had acquired some tools that left me truly dreading her spanking sessions.  A large rubber strap like the one on the left is what I was talking about.  It is just extraordinarily painful, and oddly unlike any leather strap.  The pain penetrates and radiates more than any leather strap, and it's far denser and less pliable.  It's like a very nasty cross between the flexible "sting" of a strap and the unforgiving "thud" of a thick paddle -- really the worst of both worlds. Worse yet, I find that it does not numb the bottom nearly as quickly as a wooden paddle.  If there is one tool I wish I had never bought for her, that one is it.  The one on the right is in some ways even nastier.  It has more sting and less thud, kind of like (I imagine) a really serious caning, but she largely stopped using it because it its small width had a tendency to break the skin.


Now, as I've discussed before, we have largely given up on that other most iconic punishment instrument, the cane.  While it may the bane of every English schoolboy, for some reason my wife just has not been able to figure out how to use one in a way that really hurts very much.  We're still not sure whether it is some deficiency in the canes we have tried, or some issue with her stance, swing, follow-through, etc.

Well, there is my overly long discourse on some tool options.  How do you rate those you have tried?  Are there some that are especially good at helping make her point?  Others that she shouldn't waste her time and energy?

As always, if you are new to this Forum, please go to the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR lifestyle or aspirations.

I hope you have a great week.

Saturday, February 25, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 195 - Confronting Reality

“Nothing quite encourages as does one's first unpunished crime.”- Marquis de Sade

Hello all.  Welcome back to the The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, a DD or FLR lifestyle.  I hope you all had a great week.

I'll begin by admitting this is one of those weeks I am feeling kind of lazy and uninspired.  I get the feeling that some others feel the same way.  Participation seems to have tapered off a bit, other than the guy I have decided to call OCD Boy who keeps sending me comments about his wife/mother/girlfriend leg locking him during a spanking.   I strongly suspect it is the same OCD Boy who was previously all about his Mother-in-Law, since both seem to have this thing about being made to stand facing a wall.

So, since I am finding a don't have anything in particular I want to say this week, I'll try to recap and extend some themes from the last couple of weeks, and maybe just share a bit more about where my own DD relationship is these days.  When I look at where the conversations have gone, and where I am mentally and emotionally right now, I see a theme emerging around "reality."  Confronting it, managing it, and giving in to it.

A few comments last week touched on the trade-off between making spankings and punishment quick and easy versus making them meaningful and communicative. On one hand were Marissa and Anna who argued that DD takes time and attention if it is to work.  On the other hand you had Darren and me, who did not disagreed but pointed out how insanely busy and distracting ordinary life can be and the extent to which real life can get in the way even for couples who have the best of intentions.  Our concern was that if we make the spanking or punishment event too long or intricate, it is less likely to happen at all.  Marissa and Anna rightly point out, however, that ritual and duration have important roles to play in bringing home and reinforcing the reality of the relationship and of the punishment itself.

On a personal level, I came into this year thinking that, given some changes in our family arrangements, we might have more time to really focus on the DD and FLR aspects of our relationship.  It has not been the sea change that I anticipated, though we are finding a little more time alone for her to deal with issues.  We also did start trying to implement a daily reporting scheme with more immediate "on the spot" spankings, in order to try to uproot some chronic and long-running behavioral problems.  Real-life almost immediately got in the way, however, with me having a series of business trips and my wife having some of her own work distractions.  Setting those challenges aside, however, I am also finding that this idea of daily check-ins that could, if my behavior does not improve, also result in daily spankings, is very intimidating.  Particularly in conjunction with her proclivity for spanking "all out" every time, and with some newer tools that are just incredibly painful.  I am finding that even though I bought those tools with the express intention of ramping up the pain associated with each spanking, and even though I suggested the increased frequency of checking in and spanking to root out the really resistant behavior, I am really struggling to comply fully, with the struggle playing out in how reliably I self-report bad behavior.

Now, I know this is going to bring a hailstorm of criticism raining down along the lines of "If you are not going to submit, then what is the point?"  As I've said before, very easy to say if you are just naturally submissive and compliant, naturally well-behaved for the most part, or if your wife does not spank that hard.  If you happen to have that special combination, however, of stubbornness, willfulness, chronic bad habits or a job that seems to require or encourages certain excesses -- together with a wife who spanks very, very hard -- then something has to give and the temptation is often there to see what you can get away with.  Ideally, what would give is the bad behavior, but I'm finding that it is easier to just kind of slack on the self-reporting and hope that the distractions of our daily life keep her from focusing on my reporting or lack thereof.  It's also just been a particularly hard time to comply with an increasingly strict set of commands, in part because of the work travel I referred to.  It's easier for me to adjust my behavior when I'm just going about my regular job, but traveling very often involves work-related dinners or drinks and long hours, resulting in too much socializing and too little sleep, which makes it more likely that I will skip working out and eat bad food, etc.  One break in the chain of good habits leads to back-sliding in a whole bunch of areas.  That is really what happened this week.

The bottom line is, I know that I deserve one, but I also know I really don't want one and would strongly prefer to get away with something. As I said, I know this is going to lead to the usual chorus of "You just need to submit."  I don't really disagree with it. I know I deserve to be spanked, and I know I just need to take my medicine.

What I am pointing out, however, is that it is sometimes easier said than done.  And while the resistance is undoubtedly counter-productive, in a sense it confirms that we are on the right track.  Because, the resistance and desire to avoid punishment really kick in only once a Domestic Discipline relationship becomes "real," in the sense that it is no longer about some quasi-erotic kink and is really about being punished hard enough, long enough and often enough that he really hopes it will not happen. 

If anything, when I get to this point sometimes where it all does seem too hard to handle, it shows that we are getting to the kind of Domestic Discipline relationship we have said we want, i.e. real punishment that is designed to change behavior, and not just some kinky game in which there is a perverse desire to do things to get spanked.



I hope people will share a bit about their own experiences when it became real or about how hard it it sometimes is to accept that new reality.  When the Disciplined Husband realized the reality of submitting to real spankings.  When the Disciplinary Wife accepted that she had real power and real responsibility.  Also, I would still like to spend some time on this consistency theme.  What have couples done to ensure that spankings do happen as regularly as warranted and that all those "real life" distractions do not get in the way of a "real" disciplinary relationship.

As always, if you are new to this Forum, please take a moment to drop by the Guestbook  (see tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR lifestyle or aspirations.   

Saturday, February 18, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 194 - Use Your Words

A lot of people are afraid to say what they want. That’s why they don’t get what they want. -
Madonna


Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

I apologize for the delay in posting.  Darren responded that he hoped it resulted from being grounded from the internet after a hard disciplinary spanking.  Unfortunately, no.  I was just busy with something else.  Though, I do have a very bruised bottom but, interestingly, not from a spanking.  I used to worry that at some point I would go to a doctor with bruising from a spanking and wouldn't be believed if I lied and said I slipped and fell.  Because how could slipping and falling on your butt generate enough force to result in real bruising?  Well, I can now confirm that it can.  I had such a fall a few days ago, and I am now sporting a very angry bruise on one cheek.  And those threats from your wife to the effect of "You won't be able to sit for a week . . ."  -- I can confirm that a bruised bottom definitely can make sitting very uncomfortable.  My only comfort is I did have a hard spanking coming, but it may have to wait a few days until some of the current tenderness is gone.  Or not.

This week's topic is kind of related to that "You won't be able to sit for a week . . ." threat, though I will take a bit of a meandering trip to explain it.  A few weeks ago, my wife and I had a disagreement that resulted in her getting very angry and storming out of the room.  Those things happen, but it is a problem in the context of our marriage because we have agreed that when she is angry with me, she has the tools to take control and bring the argument to a screeching halt in a very concrete way.  We have been at this for over a decade, and yet vocalizing her unhappiness and saying exactly what she wants and expects is still a challenge for her sometimes.  I'm sure years of socialization are part of the problem, and there is that seemingly ever present female concern that straight talk will come off as bitchy.

It was shortly after this fight that Kathy over at http://femdom101.blogspot.com began a series of posts regarding the Netflix series "The Crown."  I decided to give it a try and ended up having a binge watching weekend.  I have absolutely no doubt that the director or someone on the writing staff have an FLR thing going on.  It is, in fact, a very interesting multi-part exploration of two people, Queen Elizabeth and her husband Phillip, learning to command and to submit respectively when neither came naturally to those roles.  Elizabeth must learn to lead after her father dies, and  unlike many future monarchs she had not been prepared for that from an early age because she was kind of an accidental ruler.  Her father became king only after her uncle Edward VIII (portrayed as a fairly effeminate and servile husband to a dominant wife) abdicated the throne, and she became monarch at a young age after her father died of cancer.  Her husband Phillip, a prince in his own right, is a strong and proud man who finds himself unexpectedly playing the role of consort to the newly minted Queen.  The dynamic between Elizabeth and Phillip is also fascinating, culminating in the issue of whether he must kneel at her coronation.  He asks to be released from that obligation, and she refuses.  He becomes very angry and proclaims that he wants to be married to his wife, not to a queen. She replies that she is both wife and Queen and that a strong man should be able to kneel to both.

It also is a study in learning to use power, and specifically that leadership skills can be taught and learned, though perhaps in small, incremental steps.  Some of the most intriguing segments are the exchanges between Elizabeth and Winston Churchill.  There is very explicit mentoring going on with respect to making decisions, and the necessity of really making and owning them.  While he gives her advice, he then presses her to both make the actual decision and to vocalize it.  He realizes and subtly impresses on her the necessity of learning to take ownership of her own power.

That is what this week's topic is about. Vocalizing. Commanding.  Expressing what she wants.  There is another scene in The Crown related to this theme that has an even more explicit FLR reference.  Churchill's health is failing and he suffers from two strokes, but he and certain cabinet ministers try to hide it from Elizabeth.  When she learns of their deception, she discusses it with her new tutor, a wizened professor who advises her that she must assert her authority and recommends bringing them in for "a good dressing down." She asks why men of such power and distinction would stand for it, and her tutor observes, "Because they're English, male and upper-class.  A good dressing down from nanny is what they want most in life."  She proceeds to bring them in and gives them just such a dressing down.  After it is over, she encounters her husband who observes that she looks "taller." He then proceeds to seduce her, plainly turned on by her newly acquired authoritative, regal bearing.

That is the long-winded introduction to this week's topic, which is about that "dressing down." Lecturing.  Vocalizing both her expectations and her dissatisfaction when those are not met.

This is something I really love about the artwork from the owner of the RedRump blog: http://redrump.blogspot.com.  While there is some lighthearted stuff with women having fun administering their butt blisterings, a majority of the drawings portray the woman as pissed off and letting it show. These are women who plainly are not to be trifled with, and when they are angry they express it.  With words.  With facial expressions. Their entire demeanor is congruent with their status as Head of the relationship, and when discipline is to be meted out their demeanor and words are part and parcel of the punishment process, designed to break down the ego of the offender as surely as the spanking itself.  It is both an expression of authority and a warning about what is about to happen.


Is strong lecturing and chastisement part of your DD and FLR relationship? Do you want it to be?  I have come to appreciate the extent to which the passion and authority with which I am directed and controlled is almost more important to the whole experience than the spanking itself.  It's not just about taking me to the woodshed.  It is about making me go there.  Telling me that it is going to happen and why.  Vocalizing what she is angry about and what she is going to do to me as a result of that anger.  Emphasizing through her words, her expression and her demeanor that it is absolutely inevitable that I am going to be punished. That I have no choice in the matter and, yes, that I very much should be afraid of it and how much it is going to hurt.  And, I do want her to express her anger.  In fact, just as Churchill would advise Elizabeth but then make her vocalize it as her own decision, even if I have advised something I want and need on the DD front, I need her to vocalize it to me as her order.  In short, I want her to use her words, and to use them to dominate, control and chastise me.

Do you share those desires?  If lecturing and verbal chastisement are part of your DD relationship, give us a few examples.  A while back we did a topic on spanking-related phrases, which I put below  for reference and for our female readers to consider working into their disciplinary vocabulary. But, please go beyond that and tell us about times when lecturing has been used to good effect in your relationship.

_______

Now.

I'll give you something to cry about.

Understood?

Did you hear what I said?

Not as sorry as you are going to be.

We will discuss this later.

Bring me the paddle.

I'm not going to stop until you are crying. 

I am going to blister your behind.

I am going to set your bottom on fire.

You are going to be much sorrier.

I bet you will be good - after I finish blistering your behind.

I sure hope you don't do it again. God help you if you do.

Stop? (with increduality) Oh no, dear, we're just getting started.

You really should be ashamed that I'm having to paddle your behind like this - will you ever grow up?

Of course it hurts - you should have remembered that before misbehaving again.

There are no limits on my authority to spank you, anytime, anyplace for any reason –got that?

You have a naughty little boy inside you and when he comes out it’s my job to teach him how to behave.

You are going to be severely punished.

Lose it. (referring to a pre-spanking erection)

Do you want me to take you upstairs and pull your pants down?

One more word and I will ...

You are going to get such a sore bottom when we get home.

You just carry on with that attitude, just carry on...

Really?  Really?

You're too big for your britches, and those britches are coming down.

Assume the position.

I promise this is going to be an ass blistering that you won't soon forget.

You'll be lucky if you can sit down for the next week.

Go cut me a switch.

Of course it hurts. It is supposed to hurt.

Our company should be here soon, dear. Time to bring me the paddle so we can make sure you remember to behave.

________

I hope you all have a great week. As always, if you're new to this Forum, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about your DD or FLR relationship or aspirations.


The Forum - Late Posting This Week

I will be tied up (not in a good way) on another matter today  and likely won't be able to get to a new post until tomorrow.  Enjoy your Saturday.


Saturday, February 11, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 193 - "Natural" Leaders and Submissives

It is much safer to obey than to rule. -- Thomas Kempis

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men, women and couples who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Last week's topic didn't blow up in the way I was concerned it might, but it also didn't quite get off the ground, did it?  That itself probably indicates the extent to which it made some people squeamish.  I thought it was tailor made to get some thoughtful comments from some of our regulars, especially the women, but few of them commented at all.  And, some who did avoided the actual topic entirely, instead talking about things that seemed aimed more at the topic from two weeks ago.  (BTW, as referenced in one of my comments, KD Pierre has been having his own issues with non-responsive responses over on his blog, and dealing with it ways that are far more amusing than what I usually go with.  https://collectedsubs.blogspot.com/2017/02/non-sexquitur.html.)  However, we did get some very thoughtful responses from a few people, so it was something worth exploring.

I'm not really sure what I want to do this week.  Honestly, it's just one of those lazy weekends, and I'm feeling more than a little bored and uninspired.  So, it may be up to all of you to carry the conversation along this week.  We do have a poll we can talk about a little.  It dovetails a little with a couple of the comments we did get last week, but it's also a little disconcerting as it seems to point to a pretty large gap between this blogger and most of his audience.

Our poll was as follows:

I am a disciplined husband or interested in being one, and I am:
Naturally submissive
  63 (68%)
Not naturally submissive
  29 (31%)

Now, it is not often that these polls result in such a clear-cut split between one option and another (though possibly because I rarely offer such a binary choice).  Usually the results are a lot more muddled.  Here, a very clear majority sees themselves as naturally submissive.  Making it even more definitive is the phrasing of the two options.  I tried to stay away from describing the "not naturally submissive" option with any term that might have a more loaded or divisive connotation, like "Alpha" or "dominant."

This confirms a rather poorly constructed poll we did over a year ago, in which the options were: 

I am [Male or Female] and Outside the Home I prefer to: 
Female - Prefer to Follow
  2 (2%)
Female - Prefer to Lead
  5 (5%)
Male - Prefer to Follow
  48 (55%)
Male - Prefer to Lead
  36 (41%)



A majority of those who are responding to these polls are clearly interested in doing what comes naturally to them.  They identify as naturally submissive or having a preference to follow rather than lead, and I assume they are attracted to DD and FLR because those fit their natural preference.  What intrigues me so much about this is that I come at this from the exact opposite angle, and my entire motivation for being in a Domestic Discipline relationship and wanting to explore a Female Led one is that I am not at all submissive in real life and strongly prefer to lead and really hate being led.  For me, this is like yin and yang:








My handy Wikipedia defines it as "The combination or fusion of the two cosmic forces.  A circle divided by an S-shaped line into a dark and a light segment, representing respectively yin and yang, each containing a 'seed' of the other.  Yin is characterized as slow, soft, yielding, diffuse, cold, wet, and passive; and is associated with water, earth, the moon, femininity, and nighttime. Yang, by contrast, is fast, hard, solid, focused, hot, dry, and active; and is associated with fire, sky, the sun, masculinity and daytime."

In my "real" life, I am all yang, all the time.  But, that is not a very healthy way to live.  J Girl touched on something like this in one of the more on-point comments last week: "It only makes sense that since most of us experience discipline -- or, in many cases, craved discipline -- from a loving parental or authority figure, that when we desire discipline from our significant other, there are somewhat parental overtones. Many in the DD community deny this vehemently, and I suspect the reasoning is because we are so adamantly opposed to disordered relationships, and so insistent that consensual discipline within a DD dynamic is healthy. However, the relationships by their very nature are different."  My response was, "DD fills some need that doesn't seem to be present in "normal" or "healthy" people. I tend to think of it more in terms of "unbalanced" than "disordered," but that may be a distinction without a difference."

Intellectually at least, my attraction to DD lies in the fact that it requires me, a fairly unyielding and dominant person, to yield and submit.  I am attracted to it because it requires me to grow in a direction that is not natural to me and that makes me very uncomfortable.  For me, DD is about bringing some order to that disordered state that J. Girl references; bringing balance to a personality that is inherently unbalanced and way too much yang for its own good.

Yet, this poll seems to indicate that most of this blog's readers are coming at things from the opposite perspective, attracted to something that fits where they naturally want to go anyway.  It also shows why I sometimes get into discussions where we are just talking past each other about the nature of submission and why husbands who don't always tow the line should be cut some slack.  Not in terms of not getting the punishment they have coming, but in terms of understanding why they may not instantly and consistently obey every rule.  Every few weeks I will get a comment from someone to the effect of, "You just need to submit."  And without exception those comments always irritate the hell out of me, because it's clear that the person just doesn't get that for a non-submissive person, submitting to someone else is a very hard thing to do.  It is not natural to them, and they must fight their natural tendency to fight and resist.  Conversely, if your natural temperament is geared toward submission, then isn't it awfully easy to advise "just submit"?  It's what you want to do anyway! 

This also ties into a misunderstanding I had with one of our regular commenters, who I think may have misread or misunderstood where I was going with some comments about female leadership.  It was an example of comments I get every once in awhile that suggest I don't appreciate how hard it is is for wives to step into the leadership role.  To the contrary, I have no doubt at all about how hard it is to be a real leader, particularly for those who are stuck in yin to the same extent I am burdened by excessive yang.  Leading is hard!  Even for people who have strong leadership attributes, it takes thought and commitment and learning to be comfortable not just with a degree of confrontation but with actually initiating the confrontation.  And all that may cut against who that person has always been.  But, even if following is more natural to such a person, is it healthy? What do you miss out on by not leading, even if leading is hard?  Leading does not come easily to my wife.  Both by temperament and socialization, when confronted with an obstinate, unyielding husband, her first reaction is to retreat.  But, she is figuring out over time that she actually does like leading, likes being in charge and, yes, likes disciplining.  There are always just stray doubts in her mind about what reaction she will get when she does step up.  It's that ongoing conversation that Alan brought up a few weeks ago, in which she takes a step forward but is waiting for something from me showing that I am going to really accept that leadership.  Conversely, because following is so hard for me, my fantasy is that she will just take over and force me into submission, overcoming my will when I don't find it easy to do myself.

My aversion to the concept of "topping from the bottom" also comes, to some extent, from the perspective that leadership is hard and must be developed, and the same with submission.  I do believe that there may be instances where a woman who has taken on the title of Head of Household may decide not to discipline or punish and actually has a good, well-considered reason for doing so.  In those instances, it may very well be that he needs to accept that and, in doing so, he is learning to be a better follower.  HOWEVER, I also think that not punishing or disciplining consistently when you have agreed to do that can just be poor leadership, reflecting that person retreating to their more "natural" or preferred state of passivity or submission.  Again, I have nothing but admiration for every Disciplinary Wife who struggles against socialization and temperament in order to become a better leader.  It is very, very hard work.  And because it is such hard work, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the position that the passivity of someone who has taken on the title but is NOT doing the work must be respected just because she has taken on the HoH title.  In the end, these are consensual agreements in which the parties have agreed to take on certain roles.  Saying, "I choose to lead by not leading" seems like sophistry, and "topping from the bottom" can be a convenient concept to fall back on when the designated "leader" isn't stepping up but doesn't want to be called on it.

Well, now that I have proven beyond all doubt that I was being honest in saying I had no idea where this topic was going, do with it what you will.  I think it would be interesting to hear from those who are playing against their natural inclinations -- dominant personalities who are learning to submit or folks who aren't comfortable in the leadership role but are working hard to develop those skills.  For those who are playing to their natural state, I am interested in hearing how that works for you, whether it feels right to be more of what you are, or do you ever feel like it retards your ability to grow and develop in other directions?

Have a great week.

Friday, February 3, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 192 - Nurturing

"That was what he wanted. For somebody to tell him 'No.' To have somebody lay down the law, set the limits, give him something solid to stand on. That's what we all want, really.” ― S.E. Hinton

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in Female Led Relationships or into Domestic Discipline. Thanks for joining us.

I decided to get an early start on this week's topic, as I may be off-line much of tomorrow.  Also, it felt like this week's topic had run out of gas, though I do want to thank everyone who participated in it.  We didn't succeed in getting a whole lot out on the table regarding what men can do to show their submission in order to encourage their wives to take charge, but there were some nuggets in there.  I'm also not sure whether I did a good enough job of explaining what I was looking for, which seemed fairly simple to me at the time: namely, whether men have ways of showing their willingness to be led before expecting her to just take a strong lead.  It was really about, what can we as disciplined men do to help build up our wives' confidence even if, in an ideal world, we would prefer that they take command and impose their will without us having to prod things along with things like suggesting a spanking might be appropriate or acting submissive such that she takes it as a cue to lead.  Anyhow . . . best laid plans.  

I will say that sometime in the near future, you can expect me to do a topic going off again on the whole "topping from the bottom" thing, as it once again came up and seemed to generate more heat than light.  I am more and more convinced that it is like one of those non-indigenous weeds or snakes that gets let loose in a new environment and wreaks havoc on the eco-system.  I'm obviously analogizing to what happens when we import concepts from one kink--in this case BDSM or Femdom--into something different (DD) that may not have the same goal or purpose.  I don't think there could possibly be anything more destructive to a budding DD relationships than the suggestion that there is something wrong about communicating what it is you need and what it is you are hoping DD will do for you, whether as the spanker or spankee or letting your partner know what is and is not working.  I know that "topping from the bottom" is not necessarily incompatible with open communication between couples, but it is just so easy to apply it in a way that shuts down communication, in the DD context it just seems to be way more trouble than it is worth.  Anyway, enough of that.  Onward.

During the course of last week's conversation, Marisa made the following point in response to a very thoughtful comment about confessing one's transgressions and failings:

"I am not Catholic ( Jay is) but I LOVE confession. I am not talking about the contrived " mommy I was naughty" version designed to get a spanking, but the sincere heartfelt admission of guilt and acceptance of penance. This is very hot for a dominant woman (maybe even a vanilla woman).  I believe it taps deeply into our nurturing nature as well as the penance giving role so natural to us."

I want to follow up on her "nurturing nature" and "penance giving role" comment.  Another word for what I think she may have been getting at is "mothering."  Now, I am coming at this topic with a lot of trepidation, because I absolutely do not want to open the door to a bunch of "I love it when Mommy puts me in diapers . . ." stuff from "Anonymous" in all his permutations.   While whatever people want to do in the privacy of their own bedroom is up to them, some of it is beyond the scope of this blog. (Though, I will admit some it reflects your blogger's personal comfort zones.   I read recently that Mike Pence refers to his wife as "Mother." Totally creeped me out.)  So, like I said, I hope I am not opening up a big can of worms here.  But, I actually have been thinking for some time about doing something here about whether "nurturing" and "mothering" are an aspect of DD and FLR relationships for some couples or are part of the mindset that makes or keeps either party interested in DD.  It has been on my list for awhile, though I did keep shying away from it. But, Marisa's comment seemed like a good opening to do some tasteful exploring.

In addition to Marisa's insights, I can think of two separate incidents that got me thinking about this.  First, several months ago I mentioned that I had listened to some lectures I found on-line from a professional disciplinarian who also promotes herself as a "spanking therapist" specializing in adults with spanking fetishes.  She opined that many adult men and women who crave real disciplinary "to tears" kind of spankings who grew up in chaotic homes with few rules, or where the rules were inconsistently enforced, and it left them feeling insecure, guilt-ridden, etc.  As adults, they crave the structure and boundary-setting, and consequences for misbehavior, that they did not experience growing up.  She referred to adult spanking in that context as almost a form of "re-parenting."  

Second, in my own DD relationship we had never, until recently, even alluded to any "mothering" aspect. And, honestly, if I had ever thought about it I probably would not have brought it up, because I suspect there are many women who might be open to DD but definitely do not want it to be associated with mothering or treating him as a "little boy" and I assumed my wife might have the same adverse reaction.  A few months ago, however, I said something about how I felt like her bringing a very strong and stern demeanor when she was in the course of ordering or delivering a spanking was important, because of the vulnerability and greater sense of genuine regret and accountability it fosters. I told her that I wanted to experience that "healthy fear" more often.  I gave her the example of a stern teacher, and she responded with something like, "Or, like a boy who is about to get a very sound spanking from his mother."  Since then, she has made a few comments along those lines -- that part of me wants to be disciplined in the same way it used to happen to misbehaving boys from a strict mom.  Instead of reacting negatively to the mothering metaphor, she seemed to gravitate toward it in some way.



It isn't all that easy for me to admit, but some of that imagery does resonate for me as well, though I do think it has more to do with wanting to be subject to control by a strong authority figure than with "mothering" per se.  A mother could fill that role, but so could a teacher, or a strict aunt (or uncle, for that matter).  But, I do think it does have something to do with someone having that kind of actual authority and sufficient physical or positional power, to make a spanking happen when a rule is broken.  


 For me, I'm not sure it is linked so much to the disciplinarian's age and accompanying authority, as to my lack thereof.  It is about the feeling of lacking the ability to resist that we felt if subject to corporal punishment growing up.  As an adult, I always kind of know that even if I have committed to being spanked whenever she orders it, if I wanted to resist, I could. It's not like that when we are younger, right? If punishment was ordered from an adult, whether at home or school, it was going to happen. That sense of inevitability -- that it is going to happen period and without any chance of getting out of it -- definitely is part of the morbid attraction DD had for me from the first moment I read about it.  And, I feel it now more than a decade later as I write this post.  It gets my butterflies going in a way that most other topics just don't. "Tears" being probably the only other one that has the same level of fascination all these years later, and I think the two are inextricably linked for me on some level.

Anyway, let's explore this a little.  Does mothering or parenting or nurturing play any role in your DD or FLR lifestyle or in your motivations to give or receive discipline?  Or, perhaps some vulnerability we had growing up that we want to tap into again?  Or, her ability to make you feel weak in the knees, like a boy caught doing something especially bad, when she gives you an especially tough lecture?  For the wives, does the "mothering" or "nurturing" aspect of your personality play any role (positive or negative) in your desire or willingness to be a disciplinarian? Marisa also referred to "the penance giving role so natural to us."  Is that a natural and overlooked facet of many women and mothers?

I hope you all have a great week.  If you are new to this Forum, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR lifestyle or desires.

Dan

Saturday, January 28, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 191 - If You Want to Be Led . . .

Submission is not in the bowing of heads or knees but in the humbling of your whole being (spirit, soul and body)” - Ikechukwu Izuakor
Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum: Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men, women and couples who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.

I hope you had a great week.  Mine was busy and filled with distractions, yet I also felt very unproductive.  I just can't seem to get motivated to take on 2017 and feel like I've kind of already frittered away one-twelfth of the year.  But, like I said, if you are going to stumble, do it early.  Just hope stumbling doesn't become lurching from one stumble to the next throughout the year.

For reasons I may go into in a future post, what I really want to talk about this week is undeserved punishment.  It is a subject that resonates strongly with me as I go into this weekend.  But, we have adone that one within the last year, and I also just need some objectivity before getting into it.  So, instead, this week's topic is an offshoot of some of last week's comments.  Darren brought up that his wife is starting to talk like a budding Disciplinarian, saying things like "You deserve to be paddled for that."  But, the follow-up isn't always there.  Anna suggested that at those times, he might respectfully ask whether he should get the paddle or remove his belt, or words to that effect.  That discussion led Alan to observe:

"I strongly agree with Anna's advice. At the beginning of my relationship with the woman who introduced DD, she would often make remarks like your wife does such as " you should be spanked for that" or " someone needs a spanking." Ultimately I realized it was sort of a negotiation conversation going on in which she was testing the waters to see if I would submit. Remember this was early and she was still uncertain (later that uncertainty goes away pretty fast). But think of it as a conversation asking a question and you supply the answer that encourages and reassures her. It might not guarantee a spanking this time but will greatly increase the chances one will be in the offing.Women who are not experienced disciplinarians want to know you will submit to their authority. Incidentally offering to bring her brush or simply answering " yes ma'am" to her was very effective in those situations"

As Disciplined Husbands or those who want to be in such a relationship, many of us crave accountability and strong female leadership. We want consequences for our actions, and it is important that they be imposed on us.  The more we have to ask, or suggest, or manipulate the situation to lead her to deliver some real punishment, the less it meets our need for real accountability and yielding to another person's will, because it is still really us controlling the situation. But, the reality is, while lots of stories in DD books and websites involve a strong woman getting fed up with her weak or ill-behaved husband to such an extent that she just suddenly takes over and blisters his bottom, in real life it doesn't seem to happen that way very often. Instead, far more often the dynamic involves the husband asking his wife to consider disciplining him, and she accommodates it but with some degree of trepidation, uncertainty and doubt.

So, while I always hope that budding Disciplinary Wives will be inspired by quotes like this,


the reality may be much closer to what Alan is describing -- a series of "testing the waters" exchanges, with her testing to see how serious he is about all this and trying to "level set" on how far he really wants her to take it.  In those cases, it may very well be that while we husbands really want the command to precede the obedience, the commands may start coming only after we demonstrate our willingness to obey.  While the fantasy is that dominance precedes submission, maybe in reality we have to do the opposite?

Is that the way it really does work?  If so, are there things you have done to demonstrate your real willingness to submit or to convince her that your desire is real and that the authority you are asking her to assume won't be taken back the first time she really steps up and tells you to do something you don't like or gives you that real disciplinary spanking that you say you want?  As I hope people saw from the last couple of postings, I am very into concrete steps, i.e. specific things we can say and do to move the ball forward in these nascent DD and FLR relationships.  So, let's get into the details on things you have done to demonstrate real commitment putting her in charge and accepting your role.  Ladies, how do you feel when your husband displays that submission or makes subtle, or not so subtle, suggestions that you carry through and spank him for something that he's done to deserve one?  Does it encourage you, or does it feel like he's trying to take over?  In an ideal world, how would you like him to demonstrate his willingness to submit to your commands or take a real disciplinary spanking from you? What would give you additional confidence in taking over or delivering the discipline he wants and deserves?

I hope you all have a great week.  If you are new to this Forum, please take a moment to visit our Guestbook (see tab above) and tell everyone a little about yourself and your Domestic Discipline lifestyle or aspirations.  Also, please note the poll posted in the upper-right corner of the blog and take a minute to vote.

Saturday, January 21, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 190 - Growing Up With Rules

"Sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zones.  We have to break the rules.  And we have to discover the sensuality of fear.  We need to face it, challenge it, dance with it." -- Kyra Davis

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum: Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women practicing or positively interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.

You know, sometimes a topic that I see as pretty simple and straightforward just doesn't work.  Take last week as an example.  I really thought that it would be a fairly concrete topic yielding some actual guidance for what a Disciplinary Wife might consider doing if her spanking efforts didn't seem to be preventing repeat offenses. I like those "concrete" kinds of topics, because I get a surprising number of side-conversations going with either budding Disciplinary Wives and HoH's who want practical, concrete advice on how to handle certain situations or from men who are looking for similar ideas to help give their wives confidence as leaders and some real tools to use.  I don't believe that any of this stuff comes naturally, and it's not like there is some instruction manual they hand you when you decide to give a Domestic Discipline relationship a try, so I always have this hope that men, and particularly women, who are interested in these lifestyles can come here and get practical, concrete advice.  And, sometimes that works.  Other times, it seems to go off the rails.  Last week, it seemed to go way off the rails--my own comments included--covering pretty much everything under the sun other than my question about how to handle repeat offenses.

I have started to see a distinct pattern of conversations going off the rails precisely at the intersection of Domestic Discipline versus Dominance & submission or Femdom.  I will ask a question that focuses on what women can or should do to increase their leadership skills or confidence, or to take a stronger hand in enforcing the rules, and it tends to quickly take a hard right turn into a vary binary "She just needs to lead" or "He just needs to submit." Or both. And, both sexes can get pretty judgmental on this issue.  One of my favorite female bloggers has told me that she has experienced the same thing, where she asks for concrete tips on being a better or more consistent HoH and Leader, and she tends to get back very preachy and condescending responses from other female HoH's to the effect of: "You just need to lead."  I don't know why there is this tendency to think that being a "Leader" or "HoH"  or "Dominant" just magically happens in practice and becomes "real" immediately by virtue of two people deciding to confer those titles.  It's a skill like anything else, and skills generally aren't innate.  They come with practice and diligence and lots of trial and error.  That is the real world, and one reason I am pretty resistant to letting this blog drift over into the harder Femdom and Master/slave stuff is that so much of that is either not real or not something that many "real world" wives seem very interested in.  I want the blog to be about real relationships, and those are complex.  They involve real people with real feelings and real temperaments and real habits.  One reason I have so much admiration for real women who decide to take on the HoH and Disciplinary Wives role is that I am sure it is really, really hard.  You are constantly having to make judgments about what rules to make and, even harder, how rigorously to enforce them, when the rules keep colliding with the real world situation around you both.  It's why, as much as I have a hard time following, I admire the hell out of my wife for agreeing to lead, because of the two roles I have no doubt that it is the more difficult.

I also recognize that I have caused some of the messiness around this by moving this blog a bit more down the FLR path instead of keeping a tight focus on Domestic Discipline, and FLR concepts do have a way of bleeding together with Femdom and D/s.  All these acronyms and non-self defining terms! 

Anyway, enough of that.  For now.  I do fully intend to keep asking these questions involving concrete tips for working on developing leadership (and submission) skills and enforcing (and following) rules, and if the discussions continue to go off the rails, so be it.  In fact, since I feel the actual topic got so little consideration last week, I was sorely tempted this morning to just continue it to this week, but I reluctantly decided to move on.  For now.

Anna asked in one of the comments last week why I continue to go down this FLR road when I really hate the "service" aspects of it. I won't repeat my answer, as it is in the comments with more verbosity than it probably required.  But, my answer relates a little to this week's quote, above, and also has some connection to this week's topic.  I stumbled across the quote just this morning as I was looking for quotes on "rules."  I love the part about needing to discover "the sensuality of fear" that comes with rule breaking.  But, I think that same sensuality and fearfulness are involved when people who are not wired to follow rules are made to do so. In fact,  I think that phrase encapsulates elegantly many discussions we have had about how a Disciplined Husband can both crave and dread a real disciplinary spanking.  We want it precisely because it is hard and legitimately fear-inducing, but we dread it because there is a very good reason that it induces fear.


I feel similarly conflicted about rules.  I am one of the most anti-authoritarian guys you will ever meet.  If someone says, "go left" I just feel this natural compulsion to go right.   But, it gets me in trouble.  So, for practical reasons, I know I need to work on following rules.  I also want it precisely because it is hard for me to obey someone else.  But, I firmly believe that we only grow by getting outside our comfort zones, and even if doing so is scary and hard, there is something sensual and fulfilling about doing hard and scary things.

This week's topic is related to the above, but maybe a little narrower, and it focuses on two recent polls.  I asked everyone about their relationship to rules when they were growing up.  Here are the results:

In my home growing up there were:

Many rules                                   33 (42%)
Few rules                                     45 (57%)

In my home growing up, rules were:

Strictly enforced                          26 (32%)
Moderately enforced                   30 (37%)
Seldom enforced                         23 (29%)

Sometimes I have some firm ideas about what a poll is likely to show, though I'm often proven wrong.  This time, I really didn't have any firm pre-conceived notion, though I had a mild suspicion that DD might appeal more to men who grew up with few rules or where enforcement was lacking.  My basis for that was two-fold.  First, I had heard something by a "spanking therapist" who was of the opinion that spanking fetishists who want disciplinary-style spankings often grew up in chaotic or unstable environments, and as adults they crave rules and accountability precisely because they lacked them growing up. She even described the adult spanking process and the accountability that comes along with it as a form of "re-parenting."

Second, that therapeutic explanation resonated with me personally.  I did grow up in a pretty chaotic environment, and my parents set very few rules and enforced even fewer.  In fact, as I hit my teen-age years my father actually told me something to the effect of he wasn't going to set any rules unless I really screwed something up thereby proving that I needed them.  Now, that may sound like a teenage boy's wet dream, but it actually can lead to a lot of insecurity and sense of overwhelming personal responsibility, because when you are responsible for setting 100% of your own rules you also are responsible for 100% of the consequences.  I was never a "bad" kid in terms of things like bullying or engaging in wanton destruction, but it is fair to say that I engaged in a lot of pretty risky behavior.  I managed to get myself out of most scrapes, but I think I always felt more than a little out of control, because in fact no one really was controlling me.  That is hard enough as an adult, but as a kid it is a lot of responsibility to carry around.  So, I think that one reason I had such an incredibly strong reaction to Domestic Discipline the first time I read about it was because the idea of having rules and painful consequences imposed on me was deeply attractive and also deeply disturbing, both at the same time.

Now, the polls don't really seem to support my working hypothesis.  Yes, more respondents grew up with "few rules," but not by a big margin.  There also is a fairly even distribution between mild, moderate and strict enforcement.  So, I guess all the poll really does is reinforce my view that there is no "one size fits all" reason for our attraction to this stuff.

How about you?  What was your environment like growing up when it comes to rules and their enforcement?  Do you see any connection between how many rules you had to follow and how strictly you were required to observe them and your attitudes and desire for (or aversion to) rules and discipline today?

I hope you have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum please tell us a little about yourself or your DD lifestyle by visiting our Guestbook (tab above).