Saturday, June 25, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 163 - Rehabilitation v. Punishment?

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. - Marianne Williamson

 Hello all  Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating, or interested in participating, in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week. Mine was a little stressful, because of some interactions on the job front.  It brought to mind Marisa's observation from last week: "That "humbling function" allows you to let go of that ego, accept authority and become the (mostly) wonderful, charming and loving men you really are It frees you to be yourself and that is what we are after."  On the surface, it may seem a little inconsistent with the quote above, which is all about not dumbing yourself down just so others will feel more comfortable.  But, as Marisa's point emphasizes, it is hard to let the "real" you come through when your ego keeps getting in the way.  It used to bother me a little that there might be some inconsistency between disciplining someone for bad behavior, and the acceptance and peacefulness I was exploring through things like meditation and mindfulness.  I then remembered that Zen masters often "help" trainees meditate -- by hitting them with a stick!

Last week's discussion was great.  One of the best we've had in a while in terms of sheer entertainment.  It reinforced to me that compared to some of you, my DD relationship is downright boring.  When I first posted that topic, I thought it might not get much response because few people might have experienced being taken out of an event and punished.  But, it seems to be more common than I thought, and I am incredibly happy that we suddenly have so many strong and assertive women participating in this Forum and taking those kind of assertive actions to keep their men in line.
From time to time, we get a question about whether DD "works," and it is usually clear from the context that the reader is defining "works" in terms of does it eliminate the behavior that led to the discipline session.  There seems to be an unstated assumption that eliminating the behavior is THE goal of domestic discipline.  But, is it?  Why make that assumption?  There is a long-standing, and probably unresolvable,  debate in the criminal justice community about whether the goal of our justice system is rehabilitation, deterrence, punishment, or maybe all at the same time.  So, why assume that the entire goal of DD is deterring future bad behavior? Might another legitimate goal just be punishing the past act?  Allowing the wife to express her disapproval in a way that really makes an unmistakable point? And, from the other side of the paddle, how about wanting some penance and consequences.? There is this assumption that wanting to be spanked is inconsistent with "real" discipline, but isn't that true only if you don't allow that the recipient may have an unmet need for consequences and enforced boundaries?  Inviting consequences is not the same as being very sorry when you actually get them.

In terms of whether it really is deterrence that motivates us, I got curious about the extent to which the deterrence idea was prevalent in the stories on the Disciplinary Wives Club website, given how many of us have been influenced by it.  It's hard to say that those stories really reflect any premise that Domestic Discipline serves any one particular goal.  Many of the men are spanked for repetitive bad behavior, so while there is a theme of escalating the punishment to reduce the behavior, there doesn't seem to be a notion that all bad behavior will go away by virtue of being in a Domestic Discipline relationship, or even that it actually will be reduced.  It was also interesting to note the extent to which, while we have talked a lot about the importance of consent, in many of the stories it is either the wife who imposes the disciplinary relationship, or the man may ask for it but she quickly gives him "more than he bargained for."  So, while in theory we may say that deterrence is the goal, our motivation, as reflected in the actual content of stories that inspired many of us to pursue this lifestyle, seems a lot more complicated and often seems to involve being involuntarily subjected to a real consequence for bad behavior, regardless of whether it succeeds in deterring us in the future.

That was a very long-winded way of introducing the topic of, in your relationship is DD mainly about reducing certain behaviors?  Exclusively?  Primarily?  Or, is it as Marisa says, also about humbling and personal growth?  Is it also about penance?  Boundaries and consequences?  And, from the other side of the paddle, is it only about correcting behavior, or also about being able to express dissatisfaction?  Or about growing your own sense of power and authority?

By the way, there is a great discussion on whether "wanting" punishment is inconsistent with actually being punished, from the M/f side of DD, on the Taming of the Shrew blog:

Have a great week.  As always, if you are new to this Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and tell us a bit about yourself and your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship.

Saturday, June 18, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 162 -- Taken Aside

 Some women fear the fire.  Some simply become it.  -- r.h. Sin.

Hello all. Welcome back to The Forum - Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships. I hope you had a good week.

Last week's topic, focusing on "empty nesters," didn't seem to generate much interest.  Maybe there aren't as many of them out there as I thought, despite the fact that may of our readers report being in the post-50 year-old demographic.  Maybe there are just fewer empty nesters than I supposed given the age demographics, because while there are lots of more senior readers, those darn Millennials just won't leave??

A few weeks ago we talked about whether immediacy is a goal in discipline, i.e. is it important to correct a problem on the spot.  Extending that topic a bit, have you ever been taken out of an event, such as a party or other function, and at some point during the festivities been taken aside for a well-deserved spanking?  Perhaps escorted into a convenient dressing room or store bathroom for a quick correction on a shopping trip?  

Or, maybe taken to a private room during a party so some boorish behavior could be dealt with?

Or perhaps forced to leave the event for a quick trip back home to take care of business?

If something like this has happened to you or if you've imposed it on your partner, please tell us all about it.  If not, what would your likely reaction be if it happened?

I have not myself experienced anything quite like that.  The closest we have come is she once made me leave work and come home for a spanking then sent me back to work to sit all day on a very sore bottom.

I hope you have a great week.  As always, if you are new to our Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us something about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.

Saturday, June 11, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 161 - The Empty Nest

Hello all. Welcome back to this week's edition of The Forum -- Disciplined Husbands and Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of people who are in, or interested in being in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.  I hope you all had a great week and are enjoying your weekend.  Thanks for joining.

It's summer time.  For those with school age kids, finding "alone time" for domestic discipline and other adult activities may have become even more challenging.

But, what about those whose child rearing days have come and gone?  According to the last demographic poll we did, a large majority of our readers are over 50, though with the rise of the Millennial "failure to launch" generation, I realize it certainly is not a given that even "adult" kids will actually get out from of the house and on to bigger and better things. But, some of you out there have gone through the long-anticipated arrival of "empty nest."  For moms and dads into domestic discipline, perhaps for the first time in years there is real privacy and real flexibility regarding the time and place for DD activities.  For those who have had or wanted the wife to take over as a 24/7 Head of Household, perhaps concerns about the kids observing that more explicit command structure have suddenly been removed.

So, this is a question for the older domestic discipline practitioners among us.  What impact did the children leaving your home have on your DD relationship?  Did spankings become more frequent?  Did a previously timid spouse suddenly step fully into the role of HoH or disciplinarian?  Tell us all about the changes.

As always, for those of you who are new to this Forum, please take a moment to leave some comments in the Guestbook (tab above). 

Finally, I am going to be stuck in some concentrated work activity next week and may be slower than usual to approve incoming comments.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

Saturday, June 4, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 160 - Let's Talk About Sex (Again)

 Everything in the world is about sex, except sex.  Sex is about power. -- Oscar Wilde

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  Our weekly gathering of men and woman who are participating or interested in being in a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.

First, thanks to all of you for continuing to visit with us every week.  While I was in a bit of a snit last week about some of the downsides, our one millionth page visit is still a milestone worth noting.  So, while notoriety is not without its problems, I do thank each of you who make this blog part of your weekly routine, particularly those who pipe up with comments or who take time to tell us a little about yourself in the Guestbook.  Thanks for your time and for helping encourage people who are new to, and maybe a little skittish about, this idea of adult discipline and F/m relationships.

A couple of our contributors have recently suggested sex-oriented topics, though with kind of opposing themes.  Anna suggested talking about the role of sex in Domestic Discipline, while Alan suggested forced chastity and orgasm control/denial.  While I am probably screwing myself out of future topic material by combining them, let's make this week a bit of a free-for-all where the topic of DD and FLR and sex is concerned, under the broad heading of "What role does sex play in your DD or FLR relationship, and vice versa?"

In other words, let's look at it from both angles: (i) What role do sexual related issues and themes play in how you approach your DD and FLR relationships; and (i) what impact do those lifestyles have on your sex life?  Some issues to ponder:

--  To what extent is domestic discipline something that overlays a more fundamental spanking fetish?
--  Are sexualized practices, rituals, dress, etc. part of your discipline sessions?
--  Does sex often accompany a discipline session whether after:

Or perhaps before?

-- Do your DD or FLR "rules" include sexual-related prohibitions or practices, like forbidding masturbation or imposing some form of forced chastity?
--  Does practicing the DD or FLR lifestyle help energize your sex life?  Does it have any negative impact (other than the obvious impact on our upturned bottoms)?
-- For the women especially, does taking on a more powerful role in the marriage, including something like a real Head of Household position, make you feel more sexually powerful or turned on?

For myself, I don't deny that there is a mix of sexual and non-sexual elements that underlie our DD relationship.  If I have to pick one as more fundamental than the other (the disciplinary aspects versus the sexual component) though, just looking at the sequence of events that led us to DD, it seems like the interest in being disciplined preceded, and caused, the sexual reaction.  For others, probably a big majority, it seems to work the other way: the spanking fetish or interest precedes the discovery of domestic discipline.  People also seem to be all over the map on the extent to which sex is part of the actual discipline event.  Regarding whether it has improved our sex life, I think it has improved her sense of self-confidence, which to me is always sexy.  Overall, in terms of the extent to which sex is the motivator or underlying force charging our domestic discipline and FLR relationship, I noticed as I was looking for appropriate artwork for today's post, that I often gravitate to drawings that are the least sexualized and that, instead, involve a strong and confident woman just "taking care of business."

Or, "getting the job done."
That may, or may not, be an indicator of the relative balance of sex and discipline as fundamental to my interest in this lifesytle.

I hope you all have great week.  As always, if you are new to the Forum, please drop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little bit about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship or experiences.

Saturday, May 28, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 159 -- The Worst

We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret or disappointment. Jim Rohn
Read more at:
 "Of course it hurts.  It's a spanking."
We must all suffer one of two things: the pain of discipline or the pain of regret or disappointment. Jim Rohn
Read more at:

Hi all. Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives. I hope you had a good week.  Mine got crazy busy at the end, so I apologize for not responding to all the comments.  I just ran out of available hours in the day, then I ran out of days in the week and it suddenly became time for a new topic.

I can't say anything in particular inspired this week's topic.  It is sort of a natural offshoot of our polls about severity, but instead of focusing on what we want, it focuses on what we have actually had.  Namely, what is the hardest, worst, most severe, hardest to take spanking or other discipline you have received or doled out?  What led to it, and what impact did it have on you?

For a description of a really exceptional punishment spanking, visit the DWC website and look for "How I am Spanked" under the "Real People" menu.  Make sure you go to the authentic version of the DWC:  Another that describes a very hard one can be found here:

Have a great week.  Finally, as always, if you are new to the Forum, please drop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us something about yourself.

Saturday, May 21, 2016

The Forum, Vol. 158 -- Anticipation

Of all the hardships a person had to face, none was more punishing than the simple act of waiting.” -- Khaled Hosseini, A Thousand Splendid Suns

Happy weekend everyone.  Welcome back to the Forum -- Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives, our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

We had a good discussion last week about severity and intensity.  I hope it had the desired effect of giving wives who are new to this some reassurances as they ramp up the intensity, while not imposing on them any expectations beyond "do what seems right to you as you work your way along this path."  Near the end, Alan and I started going down another discussion about origins, which I admit I find endlessly fascinating.  I'll highlight one of my observations, in case people don't have time to peruse the previous topic, because I had never quite thought of the extent to which there seems to be a significant discrepancy between how most people come to this lifestyle and the way that lifestyle is portrayed in one of the sources that brought many of us to it.  My observation was: "Face it, humans are complicated creatures, and I reject the notion that we function like biologic computers where there are just inputs and outputs and if you could see the source code you could figure out exactly how input A caused output B. Your thoughts on the genetic trigger did raise one other thought with me: Is it interesting that the DWC has influenced so many of these relationships, yet it is in many ways the exact opposite of how most of them actually begin. Whether your genetic trigger theory is right or not, it does seem undeniable that in most cases, the interest in spanking pre-dates the interest in DD, and it is usually the man with that spanking interest who asks for the DD. Yet, a large majority of the stories on the DWC revolve around a woman getting fed up with bad behavior and imposing the DD lifestyle on a man who had no previous interest in spanking. The influence the DWC model has had is another indication to me that while the spanking interest is a key driver of these relationships, it is not the only one by a long shot, and the desire to be subject to someone's authority, along with the concept of imposed accountability, are additional and independent influences."  Enough said on that for now.

Last week's discussion was all about severity and intensity while being disciplined or controlled.  But, what about the time between the act and its consequences?  I'm talking about -- anticipation.  The mindset that occurs after you know you have done something deserving of punishment but before you receive your just deserts.   

It can happen over a short or long period.  Maybe you know you did something wrong, and you know you need to self-report though part of you doesn't want to.  Maybe you have self-reported, and you are waiting for her reaction. Or, maybe she has already pronounced the sentence and told you to get ready for her to get home.
Tell us your best example of anticipation and what it does to you mentally and emotionally.  What state does it put you in?  Scared? Exited?  Contrite?  Do you have any particularly strong memories of anticipating a particular punishment? I would also love to hear from the Disciplinary Wives on this one. What state does anticipating giving a spanking put you in?  Powerful?  Annoyed?  Turned on? 

I hope you all have a great week.  As always, if you are new to the Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (see tab above) and  tell us a little about yourself and your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship.  


Saturday, May 14, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 157 -- Polls "More" or "Less"

 “The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it. ” -- Roseanne Barr

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives.  This is our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in domestic discipline or Female Led Relationships.

I hope you had a great week.  I assume that some of you did, or at least a busy one, since the number of posts has been down for a couple of weeks now.  I hope that is a reflection of folks having other competing priorities, and not a reflection on the last couple of topics.

A few weeks ago, as some of you saw, I had a little spat with someone whose main line of inquiry was, "Why must this be so harsh?"  To me, the very common sense answer was that the people who are genuinely into this lifestyle are, I presume, doing it for disciplinary purposes.  Hence the name -- Domestic Discipline.  For discipline to be effective, it needs to be unpleasant.  Therefore, it hardly seemed surprising that the community of readers of this blog would be heavily populated with people who are looking not just be spanked, but to be spanked very hard.  I also presumed that many men who want to be in a Female Led Relationship not only want to be controlled; they want that control to be firm.  Commanding even.

At around this same time, however, I was also getting some questions or comments from some of our Disciplinary Wives indicating they had some nagging doubts along the lines of "Does he really want this?" or "What if I do it harder or am more dominating -- is that what he really wants?"or "I'm worried that if I really take control he will resent me for it."

 So, since we had not done a poll on these issues in a while, I decided to put my presumptions to the test.  Last time we did some similar polling (over a year ago and with a smaller group of readers), the clear result was "more." In short, men wanted more and harder spankings, by a significant margin.  This time, I tried to get a little more granular to focus not only on the act of spanking, but to try to see what men want in terms of severity of discipline, the sternness of their partner's demeanor, and the extent of accountability.

The results are in, and they are not very surprising (at least to me), though they are interesting nonetheless.  The response rates varied slightly on the respective polls, but they averaged about 135 people, which is fairly high by our historical standards.  Here is what they had to say:

The disciplinary spankings I receive are:

Too hard
                       13 (9%)
Not hard enough
                       84 (63%)
Just right
                       36 (27%)

I wish my disciplinarian's demeanor toward me was:

More stern
       98 (71%)
Less stern
       4 (2%)
Her demeanor is just right
       35 (25%)

 In holding me accountable, my disciplinarian is:

Too strict                                 8 (5%)
Not strict enough                    105 (78%)
Just right                                 21 (15%)

The most obvious takeaway is, as our earlier polling is confirmed, men want it "more" and "harder."  Harder spankings, more stern demeanor, and being held accountable on a stricter basis.  This should give some assurances to any willing but hesitant dominants out there who have been holding back, thinking that their husbands may not want real discipline and control.  If they don't, then they are in the distinct minority.  Very few of our poll-takers thought their spankings were too hard, and even fewer wanted less accountability or less sternness from their disciplinary wives.  In fact, "more" and "harder" trounced the other categories.

Something that surprised me a little was the strength of responses wanting more accountability.  Almost 8 in 10 men wanted her to be more strict in holding him accountable.  I assumed it would be high, but in line with the other two questions.  But, it was almost 20 points higher than those wanting harder spankings.  It was also the area with the lowest number of men who are satisfied with the current state.

While it's easy to speculate and dangerous to read a clear message from a poll that, even with a pretty high response rate was still only about 10% of this blog's readers, some general, though tentative and qualified conclusions do seem to emerge:
  • Women, stop worrying that your husband is going to resent it if you give him that hard, disciplinary spanking that you have been reluctant to give.  Whether he will have one of those "why the hell did I ask for this" moments during the event is an open question, but you can at least rest assured that if your husband wants anything different in your DD relationship, you are probably safe in erring on the side of giving more, not less.
  • You also probably don't need to worry about being perceived as "bitchy" if you take firmer control and embrace that HoH role.  70% of the guys out there seem to want you to cut loose with that more authoritarian demeanor.
  • Your man wants you to hold him accountable.  So, when he screws up, don't waste time and energy pondering whether spanking him in this instance is "fair."  He very likely wants you to keep him more firmly under your thumb.
Finally, these results seem to provide a big reason to question the views of anyone who advocates that this is all just a spanking fetish.  Looking at the variances across the three polls, the desire to be held accountable and the need to be subject to stern command and control seem to be independent drivers of what the men who initiate this lifestyle are looking for.   So, while the spanking element may be a necessary piece of the puzzle for them, it's not sufficient and may not be what is really driving them to want this.

How about you?  Where do you come out on our polls?  Do you want it harder, stricter and tougher?  Do you want her to toughen the demeanor she uses when addressing your bad behavior?  If you were to give your wife feedback on what you want and need, would you tell her you want more and harder?  Or maybe it's already more than you bargained for? Or, maybe she's doing things just right?  For you, what does the ideal look like?

I hope you all have a great week.  If you are a newcomer here, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.


Saturday, May 7, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 136 - That Moment

"I'm tough, I'm ambitious, and I know exactly what I want. If that makes me a bitch, okay." ―Madonna

Hi all. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum -- our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Shakespeare asked "What's in a name?"  Apparently, quite a bit where a blog's masthead is concerned.  Some of you may have noticed a subtle change to the title posted at the top of the blog.  The former Disciplined Husbands Forum has become "The Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives." It was one of those things I just decided to do, without putting a huge amount of thought into it.  It just seemed like time for a small tweak to signal that we welcome discussion from those on both ends of the disciplinary paddle.  In all honesty, I've never been all that wild about the original title anyway.  It really began as a compromise.  I wanted the blog to focus on domestic discipline (obviously) but I didn't want to step on the toes of the Disciplinary Wives Club, so I stayed away from the terms "wives" and "club."  I've gotten over some of that reticence or concern that this might be seen as a DWC rip off, as this blog found its own readership and as it became more and more clear that the DWC wasn't going to be updated anymore.  So, I made the Masthead change early this week, and with that one change, daily readership popped up by about a third.  The jury is out on whether that is a good or bad thing.  I like the thought that maybe this blog influences a few people to try the DD lifestyle, similar to the awakening the DWC provided for me.  On the other hand, the wider the readership the more trolls it attracts and the more it pops up in links on sites that may have material that isn't something I really care to be associated with.  But, I do think trying to be more openly inviting to women who are or might be into this is worth it.

Enough chatter about the blog.  I'm still having some serious writer's block, struggling to come up with new topics.  Hopefully some new ideas will arise, though there probably is some hard limit on how many original topics there can be for a blog devoted to a fairly tightly-defined relationship activity.  Now, thankfully, as our community has grown and more people chime in with comments, something worth exploring a little more often comes up.

This week's idea came from Darren, one of our newer commenters who has been hoping his wife will come to really embrace domestic discipline.  Last week he asked, "Was there a moment all the talking you had been doing as a couple all of a sudden made sense to her? And in that moment for the first time "reflexively" went to spanking as the natural resolution in the moment."  A couple of people answered, but it seems like a question that merits an independent topic.  Was there a particular moment or event when your partner really "got" the role of disciplinarian, such that spanking you for real became her natural reaction to bad behavior?

A note on the Guestbook.  There are a couple of ways to do page tabs in Blogger, like the Guestbook and others at the top of this page.  Unfortunately, the one I originally chose for the Guestbook is kind of a pain, and as the number of comments grows, it got more unmanageable.  So, I have put up a new version, copying and pasting all the old entries into the new form.  Unfortunately, doing that doesn't preserve the profile links for those who didn't post anonymously.  But, the comments themselves are there.  If you are new to this group, please stop by the Guestbook and tell us a little about yourself.

I hope you all have a great week.

Saturday, April 30, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 135 -- Teaching Dominance

There are no good girls gone wrong - just bad girls found out.” -  Mae West

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a great week and are enjoying the weekend.

Mine was -- a little overly dramatic -- as many of you saw in the last post.  Unfortunately, it carried over into another forum, and was just a massive distraction I didn't need this week.  And, honestly, one that I played a major role in maintaining, since I could have just deleted the damn comments and left it at that.  But, I just couldn't do it in the moment. I got caught up in the need to control the situation, which paradoxically could have been much more effectively controlled by simply refusing to engage at that level.   I really need to make this a bigger area of focus for our own DD relationship, making temper and control issues a bigger and more serious offense than they have been to date.  Anyway, we are all a work in progress, aren't we?

Which is a good segue into this week's topic.  Can dominance and control be taught or learned, if it isn't who you are at your core, or at least hasn't been part of your personality that you have been able to really express in the past?  A comment by Marisa on a post a couple of weeks ago got me thinking about this: "We found our way to DD through a crisis in our marriage, the next step would have been marriage counseling if we had not tried discipline. I am aggressive and take charge and that personality trait can't be taught."

I have no doubt that we all are hard-wired with certain innate levels of aggression and tendencies to "take charge."  But, for those who lack that innate bent, can it be developed?  Is it something you can get better at with practice?  Most importantly, is it something you can actually grow to like even if it wasn't a part of your personality earlier in life? Particularly with all the negative soclialization that women are subjected to where power and authority are concerned, are there many who may actually have aggressive and "take charge" wiring that has seldom been expressed but can be if she gives herself real permission to do it?

I thought about this again this morning in connection with a comment on our last topic, to the effect that one way to test the "fantasy" of DD versus the reality is to subject him to at least one really, really hard spanking and see if it is something he still wants a few days later.  Might it also work the same way for the would be "disciplinarian"?  Perhaps cutting loose the inner Disciplinarian by giving one very hard spanking, or spending a day or two in full-blown Head of Household mode, would test whether leadership and dominance are traits that have been dormant but that she would come to really enjoy if she gave them more free rein?

What do you think?  Can dominance be learned or taught?  Has that happened in your DD or FLR relationship?

If you haven't done so already, please take a minute to fill out the polls on your level of satisfaction with the "intensity" of various aspects of your FLR and DD relationships.  And, if you're new to this blog, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself. 


Monday, April 18, 2016

The Forum -- Vol. 135 -- Fantasy versus Reality

[Note: Comment moderation has been enabled again, hopefully temporarily.  I apologize for the inconvenience, but your comments may be a little slow to post.]

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships.  I hope you had a great week and are enjoying the weekend.

I had originally intended to devote this week's Forum to the topic of whether being dominant can be learned, but I decided to put that one off for a week, because in the meantime I got a really wonderful email from one of our commenters that focused on the difference between the "fantasies" that may have led us to Domestic Discipline versus the reality of actually being a disciplined husband.  I have reprinted it below and made its themes this week's topic, because it summarized by own experience as well or better than I have ever been able to.

It was also well timed, as there have been a larger than normal number of comments here and in the Guestbook referring to "extreme" spankings, but in a context that makes it clear that what the author considers "extreme" is the "fantasy" that brought many of us to Domestic Discipline, namely a true disciplinary spanking that hurts enough to make us very sorry that we engaged in the behavior for which we are being punished.  There are aspects of that theme in the below, where the author talks about a spanking that is so hard and long that you don't think you can take it, but it is only when you realize that it is just beginning that you really give into it and experience what a true punishment spanking is supposed to be.  For some this remains only a fantasy, but for some it is the very essence of a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Because of what seemed to be a trend in the comments, I have posted three new polls that focus on what level of discipline and control people are looking for in these relationships.  I have done a variation on these before, but we have a lot more readers now and it seemed like a good time to test whether there is still a very strong bias in our readers towards wanting harder discipline, stricter accountability, and more rigorous control.  Another reason I wanted to repeat the earlier poll is some of the wives have expressed recently that one thing that may hold them back from really stepping into the HoH role is concern that he might change his mind once he experiences the reality and finds it quite different from the fantasy.  So, gents, if you want to reassure your Disciplinary Wife that this is what you really want, please fill out the polls and help deliver that message.

So, here is full post, from ZM.  From my perspective, it really is a fantastic summary of what brought me to, and keeps me in, a Domestic Discipline relationship:

Why do I need or want this?  I'm really not sure...
·      Maybe I need more clear boundaries, so life feels orderly and not out of control?
o   I didn't have any boundaries while growing up. Could it be that?
o   Maybe I just need the reassurance and orderliness of actions having consequences for the world to make sense? Of course they do, but it is not always as clear as "if this, then that..."
·      Maybe I want or need to change faster to become who I want to be and do what I want to do?
o   I am good, but I have huge dreams so I need to become ever better to achieve my goals.
o   Sometimes consequences are too long-term to change behavior effectively. For example, I know that if I eat less, I will lose weight, look better, be healthier, and live longer. But because these are all long term effects, it can be very hard to stay on a diet since I don't see immediate results.
o   Maybe I lack sufficient self-control, or I live too much in the moment? But for me to achieve my long term goals, I need short-term consequences to effect long-term change.
·      Maybe I sometimes need the closure of having paid for my transgressions?
o   Even if others forgive me, sometimes it is hard to forgive myself, and guilt accumulates.
o   There are few situations in life where wrongs are truly paid for (like speeding tickets)
o   Sometimes I just need to have a clean slate.
·      Maybe I get tired of being in charge, and need to be under someone else's control for a while?
o   It is lonely at the top, with everyone looking to me for answers all the time.
o   Maybe even though others look up to me, I know I am not quite as great as they think?
o   Or maybe I bully others sometimes, and need to feel what it is like to be bossed around?
o   Either way, making difficult decisions is tiring. It can be a relief to have all decisions out of my hands, even if only for a time.
It could be any, all, or none of these reasons.  I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter, because I do know that I crave "real" discipline, punishment, and control, that which most people would rather avoid. This need for control and discipline is a perpetual enigma which forever lives in the never-never land between fantasy and reality. My fantasy and reality are far apart and in direct conflict:
·      In my fantasy, boundaries are imposed and enforced.  In reality, I rebel against any boundaries.
·      In my fantasy, my actions have consequences.  In reality, I try to avoid negative consequences.
·      In my fantasy, I crave punishment.  In reality, I fear punishment. 
·      In my fantasy, I must give up control.  In reality, I love to be in control.
·      In my fantasy, I am weak and powerless.  In reality, I am strong and powerful.
I am incredibly fortunate because I have someone who loves me enough to understand and fulfill my unusual needs and desires. It is complicated by the fact that my fantasy needs it to be "real," but at the same time, we have a great relationship and equal partnership, so our reality needs it to be "fantasy." In the end, we allow the fantasy to enter our reality from time to time, but our relationship will never be in any way defined by it, but rather by our love for each other. We are loving, we are in love, and everything we do is inspired by love. Even the very firmness, strictness, harshness and at times almost meanness that she unleashes as part of this fantasy ultimately flow from our love for each other. It is very ironic that this fantasy which is based on power and control (both of which have absolutely no place in love) makes us ever closer to each other and more in love.
So here I am waiting, remembering the last time and anticipating the next, not knowing when it will be; It could be tomorrow, next week, or next month.  I crave it because the whole experience is unbelievably exciting, and not knowing when it will next happen only adds to the excitement.  At the same time I also fear the real emotion involved, since I don’t like disappointing her. As more time passes from the last punishment, the desire grows and I want it to happen again. But in order for it to have meaning, it has to be for real infractions and she has to have emotions to vent. Because I love her and only want to make her happy, I will never try to hurt her feelings, so infractions are not intentional, but rather things that I do without thinking or that result from my bad habits.  Also, because she is kind and understanding, she might not choose to punish me even when I deserve it.  However, living together inevitably ensures that infractions will happen from time to time, and at least at some of these times, she will be in the mood to use my fantasy to make her feelings clear.
When she decides to punish me, I am immediately overcome by powerful emotions as my fantasy collides with the reality of my impending punishment. My heart races and I feel a surge of adrenaline bordering on fear. I may think it is unfair or undeserved and try to defend my actions or plead my innocence, but ultimately, it was me who asked for this, who gave her this authority, and who said that her word is final, so I give in to the inevitable.  As soon as the punishment actually starts, everything becomes very real very quickly, and the fantasy is forgotten for a time, totally replaced by reality.  I am initially surprised by how it is more painful than I remembered from before, since I tend to forget the pain and remember only the experience (kind of like having a baby). At first, I try to fight the punishment and just endure until the end.  I am more focused on being strong  than thinking about why I am being punished. As the punishment continues, I start to feel like I can't take any more, and that it will never end.  But of course it doesn't end yet, since at that point true punishment is just beginning.  The pain, embarrassment, guilt and emotion keep building as the punishment progresses and they overpower all my defenses one by one, until in the end I surrender to and even embrace the punishment, knowing that I deserve it and need it. At that point, I relax and just absorb the lesson being taught.  Finally the punishment can end.
However real the punishment might have been, as soon as it is over, the conflict between reality and fantasy begins once again. Over the following days, the punishment (with all of the feelings of fear, excitement, pain, and embarrassment) is ever-present in my mind.  As I sit down, or perhaps as I walk, I feel the effects of the punishment.  The times I am not consciously aware of it, I am unconsciously replaying the punishment, what was said, what needs to change, etc. But as I remember what happened, I am seeing the reality of what happened through the lens of fantasy.  Yes it was painful, embarrassing, etc., but it was also very, very hot!
Again, THIS is why it works (at least for me). Even though I don't always understand this relationship between fantasy and reality, it is BECAUSE of this paradox that it is so powerful for me. As we walk over this bridge between fantasy and reality, it all at once fulfills my strongest fantasies, changes me,  and strengthens our love.
·      It greatly enhances communication. I hear and understand much better than if she just used verbal communication. Because of the sudden harshness and seriousness, and because it plays to my deepest fantasy, the issue is given maximum attention, but in a positive way, rather than negative. Rather than just try to evade the issue and make it go away, I actually listen. Since relationships are entirely dependent on communication, this is incredibly powerful and makes our relationship bulletproof.
·      It changes my thinking or my mindset about the situation or behavior. Over the days that follow, the whole scene and all the emotions of it is on constant replay through my mind, and I see the situation more clearly from her viewpoint. As my mindset changes, it changes my behavior.
·      It greatly increases intimacy. In life, I am strong and always stand up for her, provide for her, and protect her.  But for a time, I am completely vulnerable to her. This vulnerability enables intimacy which creates a bond that others will never feel.
·      It makes me love her and feel loved even more, because she cares enough about me to do anything and everything to make my fantasies reality. Sure, if she was just cold and distant, it would make a point, but I would be angry with her and would feel defensive and might pull away. Instead, she has made my fantasy reality, exactly at the time she might not feel much like doing me favors.  
Because she is using my own fantasy to communicate her own feelings, I fully hear what she says, I see things from a different perspective, I feel closer to her than ever, and it makes me want to meet her every need because of our deep love for each other.  This strengthens our relationship and empowers me to make changes that allow our lives to be better, happier, and less stressful as I become who I want to be and we achieve our dreams."
So, how does your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship deviate from the fantasy that led you to it or keeps you in it?  Are they conflict, or do they mutually reinforce each other, as they do for ZM?
 Have a great week, and if you are new to our Forum, please stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself.


Saturday, April 16, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 133 - Persuasion and Progress

Hello all.  I hope you had a great week.  Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. 

There have been some interesting conversations going on here, on the Guestbook, and in my case some direct communications with a few people.  An emerging theme in some of these exchanges has been how to persuade a hesitant disciplinarian.  As many of you know, I began my DD journey after discovering the Disciplinary Wives Club.  It has been an inspiration to many.  But, there are a few things it gets wrong, or at least creates a risk of leaving people with some pretty unrealistic expectations regarding how the "typical" DD relationship is likely to progress and how they often get off the launchpad.  For example:

-- Most of the DD relationships in DWC stories seem to be initiated by the women, often by simply imposing them on the man. 

--  DWC women all seem to go from vanilla to enthusiastic, resolute paddle wielding Dommes instantaneously after reading the DWC, or hearing about spanking through a friend, or responding to a husband's request to give spanking a try.

-- Men cry the first time they go over her knee for a spanking with the hairbrush.

Now, the reality is a little more complicated and, in many ways, conflicts with the gist of the DWC message, inspiring as that message may be to many of us.  Based on our polls and reader stories, it seems pretty clear that most DD relationships are initiated by the men, by a wide margin.  Most men don't cry right out out of the gate, and many never do.  The hairbrush is, for most people, a generally ineffective instrument and OTK is often an awkward position that does not allow for generating sufficient momentum or force.

But, all these are little details that DWC couples discover for themselves over time, or maybe sometimes those things actually do happen and do work for some couples.  However, the idea that women just step naturally into the disciplinarian role when asked seems to to present a more serious problem.  Because it may leave the men who want these relationships with some seriously flawed expectations of how things are likely to progress even after they get lucky enough to get their partner to agree to try the domestic discipline lifestyle.  Their wives may be genuinely interested in giving it a try, but it's just not realistic to expect someone to change decades of socialization and habit over night.  I recently pointed out to one of our group the disparate expectations going on here when we expect our wives to instantly flip a switch and become a commanding and domineering presence, while many of us seek out DD to help us deal with bad habits that we don't seem to be able to change even with the exercise of all our will power.  For example, one of my goals going into this year was to get rid of sugar.  Yet, it is a rare day that I can pass up that plate of cookies or brownies that someone brought into work.  If I can't make such a simple change, how can I expect my wife to just suddenly and without effort remake her entire view of herself to become a full-on Head of Household, even if she really does want it? 

Yet, progress does happen.  It takes time and focus and effort and communication and patience.   All of those and more.  And, that is today's topic -- how do you help your would-be disciplinarian progress from a willing but historically vanilla partner into a more stern, more commanding, presence?  For those on the swinging end of the paddle, were there things you did to make the switch to thinking of yourself as a disciplinarian, Head of Household, Female Leader, etc.?  In other words, in the "real world," as opposed to some DWC-fueled fantasy, how do we go from aspiration to something like a real DD or FLR lifestyle?  What are some of your hard-learned tips and tricks? Let's help newbies and wannabes take their relationships to the next level, while avoiding disappointments resulting from unrealistic expectations.

Please be as specific as possible with what you have found effective in making the transition to a real disciplinarian or HoH.

Have a great week.


Saturday, April 9, 2016

The Forum - Vol. 132 - Undeserved Punishment

Hi all. Welcome back to the Disciplined Husbands Forum, our weekly gathering place for individuals and couples who are participating or interested in Domestic Discipline and FLR relationships. I hope you all had a great week.

We had some good contributions last week on spanking related phrases that are meant to get our attention, deliver a warning, let us know what we have coming, etc.  Here is my compilation, with some slight editing on my part.  I will also post these in the Tips & Methods secction:

I'll give you something to cry about.


Did you hear what I said?

Not as sorry as you are going to be.

We will discuss this later.

Bring me the paddle.

Down on all fours and don't get up until I see tears of remorse.

I don't see tears.  Does that mean you need the cane?

So what did he do this time?

I am going to blister your behind.

I am going to set your bottom on fire.

You are going to be much sorrier.

I bet you will be good - after I finish blistering your behind.

I sure hope you won't do it again - God help you if you do.

Stop? (with increduality) Oh no, dear, we're just getting started.

You really should be ashamed that I'm having to paddle your behind like this - will you ever grow up?

Of course it hurts - you should have remembered that before misbehaving again.

There are no limits on my authority to spank you, anytime, anyplace for any reason –got that.

You have a naughty little boy inside you and when he comes out it’s my job to teach him how to behave.

You are going to be severely punished.

Lose it. (referring to a pre-spanking erection)

Do you want me to take you upstairs and pull your pants down?

One more word and I will ...

You are going to get such a sore bottom when we get home.

You just carry on with that attitude, just carry on...

 We are going upstairs now as you definitely need a resetting.

Really?  Really?

I'll take care of that.


You know that's punishable.

You're too smart for your britches, and those britches are coming down.

Assume the position.

Time to bring me the paddle.

I promise this is going to be ass blistering that you won't soon forget - you'll be lucky if you can sit down for the next week."

Now go cut me a switch.

Of course it hurts. It is supposed to hurt.

Our company should be here soon, dear. Time to bring me the paddle so we can make sure you remember to behave.

And you're going to be even sorrier.

Why don't we discuss this at length, on Friday over dinner.

This week's topic was suggested in a recent comment. It is "undeserved" punishment.  Have you ever been given a disciplinary spanking for something you felt you didn't deserve?  Perhaps "caught" doing something you really didn't do? Or someone else was the real offender? Or, maybe you did something that wasn't contrary to any clearly set rule, but it was something that annoyed or aggravated your HoH, so they disciplined you for it unexpectedly?  In those circumstances, how did you react?  How did it make you feel?  Humbled?  Resentful?  Respectful?

I can't think of a circumstance where I have been punished by her for something I really didn't do or something that I didn't know was a problem for her.  The closest I can think of is a situation where I repeatedly left a chore undone, or done half-assed, and she finally had enough, ordered a spanking, and delivered a very, very hard one that evening.  It was not that it was "undeserved" per se, but this chore was not so much something assigned to me under some express rule, but something I have just always done.  Moreover, giving  a very hard spanking for not doing a chore was not a direction either of us had taken things in up until that point.  So, perhaps the right word is "unexpected" as opposed to "undeserved."  In terms of how I reacted, there was perhaps some resentment as I pulled by pants up over my very sore bottom that night, but there was also an offsetting respect.  Admiration is another good word to describe it.  I felt proud of her for addressing a situation that was pissing her off, and doing it strongly and decisively.  That reaction was one indication I had that we might have approached a fork in the road, going from something purely DD to something more FLR-oriented, with her setting the tone and direction and taking action where she thought appropriate, not just to address a violation of some rule we had expressly agreed to.

It also would be more than a little disingenuous for me to get too upset about being punished for something I didn't deserve given that, on balance, I have engaged in way more bad behavior that has gone unpunished that I should not have gotten away with.  So, being punished where not strictly deserved could be looked at as just a balancing of the scales!

I hope you all have a great weekend.