Sunday, October 2, 2022

The Club - Meeting 411 - Loss of Spanker or Spankee and Selective Self-Discipline

“Discipline yourself, and others won't need to.” - John Wooden

 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

 

While September was a lot of fun, I admit I’m a little glad to see it in the rearview mirror.  Kind of literally.  I had two big road trips, both consisting of some fairly adventurous travel.  In retrospect, it’s all going to be great.  But, in the here and now, it was pretty damn tiring.  Anne felt it too.  We both felt like September got very busy, without a hell of a lot of planning on our part.  It was all good, but we’re both in the mood for some downtime at home. 

 

Fortunately, our calendars and the weather are cooperating in that respect.  Definitely a chill in the air that wasn’t there just a couple of weeks ago. Long-term readers of this blog know, I freaking love this time of year.

 

 

One thing I needed to face up to after all the adventuring was the need to write a post.  Unfortunately, I had zero inspiration as to any particular topic. Thankfully, a couple of you helped me out over the last couple of days.  Here are a few of the relevant exchanges:

 

J:  When DD ends because of the passing of a spouse . . . If it was the spanker who passed away, how does the spanked spouse remain disciplined? If the spanked spouse passed away, how does the spanker adapt to not having a spouse to spank anymore?

 

I assume Aunt Kay's husband is still around, but I haven't heard anything on how he is staying disciplined in her absence. How have you remained disciplined since your wife's passing?

 

KOJ: I also suggest Dan consider this as a topic. The question might be: Are spanked husbands undisciplined people who need discipline imposed by their wives? It would seem at first blush as if a simple yes would suffice. But in my case, and it seems among many writers here, I was very self-disciplined in some aspects of my life (work, attitude at work) but not others (chores at home, attitude toward wife, exercise, food, alcohol, flirting, etc.). So can self-discipline be selective? Is that truly possible? Don't we have it or not have it? Can it be compartmentalized?

 

Or is something else at play, like we both bought into the dynamic of me as undisciplined to the point of naughtiness and her as my disciplinarian. Maybe it was all kink! Maybe me being undisciplined at home was a reason to create a power exchange that we both wanted in our marriage?

 

All of these questions have been rolling around in my mind since her passing,

 

J: I was very undisciplined (outside of the armed forces rules imposed on me) and getting married caused a sea change in my character! I suppose this speaks volumes about me! I seem to be prone to going off the rails without a firm hand on me. I am surprised I was able to get married at all, given my habits, but my wife no doubt saw what I could be with some discipline.

 

ZM:  KOJ said: "I was very self-disciplined in some aspects of my life (work, attitude at work) but not others (chores at home, attitude toward wife, exercise, food, alcohol, flirting, etc.)." - Are we twins? ;-) This pretty largely describes me.

 

"So can self-discipline be selective? Is that truly possible? Don't we have it or not have it? Can it be compartmentalized?" - I certainly think it is possible to be self-disciplined in some things and not in others. There are at least four things that could be at play.

 

1) Need - You are more likely to be "self-disciplined" if there is an actual need to be disciplined. So perhaps at work you felt more pressure to be self-disciplined, and when you were at home trying to relax, you didn't feel like it was as needed.

 

2) Reward (and consistency of timeline to see rewards) - perhaps at work, you knew that if you worked very hard and were very self-disciplined, you would get a good raise at the next review. The things you mentioned that were outside the workplace mostly have longer term rewards if you are self-disciplined, but immediate gratification if you aren't.

 

3) Audience - at home, you had mostly your wife to impress. At work, you had many people to notice your stellar performance and to praise you.

 

4) Desire - maybe you really wanted to get ahead at work, but didn't really care so much about some of the "home" things you mentioned as deeply?

 

"Or is something else at play, like we both bought into the dynamic of me as undisciplined to the point of naughtiness and her as my disciplinarian. Maybe it was all kink! Maybe me being undisciplined at home was a reason to create a power exchange that we both wanted in our marriage?" - Could be, but for me at least, I can say that I would be at least as undisciplined at home if I didn't have my wife around, so I am pretty sure that while we might like the "kink" aspect of our DD relationship, my self-discipline problem is real and runs much deeper than that.

 

Regarding the passing of a spouse, I haven’t experienced it directly, so I don’t have much to contribute on that specifically, but perhaps others with more experience can chime in.  I do think it might be helpful to expand the loss of a spouse or significant other to divorce and other permanent separations, as that might help get a few more responses. 

 

Regarding Aunt Kay’s husband, I am still in contact with him, though I actually don’t think he is “still around” if by that you mean around this blog.  When he stopped participating here and stopped updating his own blog, it was because he made a conscious decision to put that phase of his life behind him, I think because he wanted to ensure it wasn’t blocking his ability to move onto a different phase.  I don’t want to go into in a lot of detail because I don’t want to share confidences without permission, but I know there have been times when he screwed something up and felt the old need to be held accountable.

 

I have more to contribute regarding KOJ’s questions as to whether spanked husbands are merely undisciplined people who need discipline imposed by their wives, and whether self-discipline can be selective.

 


I have fairly strong feelings about the first part of that question.  Yes, we may lack discipline, but compared to whom? And, on what scale?  I think many many who gravitate toward this lifestyle have a lot of drive and energy and passion, but they also tend to hold themselves to very high—perhaps absurdly high—standards.  Maybe we need more discipline, but perhaps we also hold ourselves accountable far more than others.

 

I often think about this in relation to my own biggest behavioral challenge – binge drinking.  I always feel like it’s something I need to control better, yet I have many, many friends who drink far, far more than I do.  The difference is, when they wake up with a hangover, they see it as the natural price to be paid for the good they had. I, on other hand, tend to see it as a moral failing on my part.

 

While drinking too much is probably the starkest example, I can hold myself to absurdly high standards in many areas.  Exercise. Productivity at work. Business development at work. Time management.  Diet.  If you asked people who know me how I do in those areas, I think many would say I’m more disciplined than the norm.  Yet, internally, I feel like I’ve let myself down if I’m not either perfect or working toward it.

 

Conversely, I feel like many who are most proud of their self-discipline and ability to follow rules are, in fact, natural followers who don’t give into temptation because they don’t feel much of it.  It’s the difference between a race horse and a stable pony.  One may be full of rebellious energy, but man what great things can happen when it’s directed and focused.  The other doesn’t create much trouble, but what does it accomplish in the end, other than its primary purpose of settling the more spirited down?

  

Regarding whether discipline can be selective, I’m of two minds.  On the one hand, I do feel like when I let my self-discipline slip in one area, it tends to spread like a cancer to other areas as well.  There definitely is an “all or nothing” aspect to it for me.  

 


 

On the other hand, it definitely is the case that I’m more likely to let the self-discipline slip in some areas than others.  When it came to work, I could always outwork pretty much anyone.  If I had a major matter I was handling, I would walk through a minefield to meet the client’s goals.  I’m also pretty disciplined around exercise and physical health.

 

On the other hand, I can’t seem to make myself clean up my office no matter how often I set it as a goal.  I spend way too much time surfing the internet and watching TV, no matter how often I tell myself it’s a waste of energy.  I’ve had lots of ideas for books I want to write, yet I seldom get around to putting pen to paper.

 

I think ZM is right in his four-factor analysis, though for me the categories of “need” and “audience” entail a desire to avoid failing or humiliating myself in front of others.  

 

I’ve always believed that while my profession seemed hyper-competitive, a lot of that behavior was driven by chronic insecurity.  In short, in those contexts I either didn’t need external discipline or the prospect of losing respect within my professional or social groups was itself a form of external discipline.

 


 

I also have issues that seem to be impervious to self-discipline and that cut across multiple social contexts. I can have a bad temper, and it flares at work, at home, while driving, while in the gym if someone is monopolizing equipment or leaving a mess in the locker room, etc.  I have told my wife several times that I feel like she should make disrespect something she punishes for much more aggressively, but I also wonder sometimes how amenable that problem would be to external discipline. 

  

 

I created quite a few problems for myself at work because I couldn’t hold my temper, yet whatever consequences occurred never stopped me.  Though, those consequences tended to play out over time and were kind of amorphous, which isn’t a prescription for effective behavior modification. 

 

 

Perhaps a more immediate and concrete consequence—a spanking other quick, sure disciplinary punishment—might have an impact (no pun intended), where workplace consequences failed.

  

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on all this, and thanks to J. and KOJ for their topic suggestions.

 

In the meantime, happy October.

 


 


Friday, September 23, 2022

Out for a Week or So

All, sorry for the inconsistent posting recently.  September somewhat unexpectedly became a very busy month.  I'll be out through the end of next week and unlikely to be posting.  I'll also have very little time to check the spam filter for pending comments, so post at your own risk.  Google's algorithm has seemed, however, to settle down a bit over the last week, with more comments getting through without my intervention.

Have a great weekend.



Saturday, September 10, 2022

The Club - Meeting 410 - Changes, Openness, Bitchiness, etc.

Have you ever gotten the feeling that you aren't completely embarassed yet, but you glimpse tomorrow's embarrassment? - Tom Cruise


Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

 

It’s been an interesting few weeks for us.  Anne retired a couple of months ago.  We’d talked a lot about whether that would change the disciplinary aspects of our relationship.  We both agreed it should but I admit I had my doubts about whether it actually would.  I thought that things would change profoundly when we became empty-nesters, but they really didn’t. I wondered whether this latest life event would similarly prove to be a non-event where DD is concerned.

 

Somewhat surprisingly, things really do seem to be changing in ways that are probably great for our relationship and her empowerment but not so great for my butt.

 

First, I do seem to be getting spanked way more often.  In past years, there have been more than a few times I’ve wondered what basis I had for writing semi-authoritatively about Domestic Discipline when sometimes months would go by without any real disciplinary action.  Since Anne’s retirement, however, it’s become more like weekly, and sometimes more than once a week.

 

Second, she’s spanking with more immediacy, no longer letting days go by between the offense and the punishment.  That may explain in part the increased frequency since, as we’ve discussed here many times, when too much time goes by after an offense it becomes less likely it will be punished at all.

 

 

Third, she seems to be gravitating toward being much less shy about her status and that she spanks me.  A couple of years ago, I did a post here about being spanked in front of windows.  At the time, I hadn’t experienced a spanking in front of a window with the shades up.  That changed a couple of weeks ago.  In accordance with her new commitment to immediacy, Anne decided to give me a spanking in the middle of the day, which isn’t typical for us.  We went up to our bedroom, and the shades were up.  I asked her if she’d like me to close them. I’m not sure why I asked the question instead of just closing them, but I did.  Surprisingly, without really skipping a beat, she said “No, leave them open.”

 

It wasn’t a one-time thing. A few days later, I got another spanking.  This time the window shades were closed when we went into the bedroom, and Anne walked over and opened them.

 

How did this new openness make me feel?  Maybe not quite as vulnerable or embarrassed as I once thought it might.  I think the fact that it was during the day probably makes it less likely that the people in the house immediately behind us (the only house on our block with a possible view into our bedroom) could see anything.  Glare on the glass makes it harder to see inside during the day, and the odds of them being out or at work were higher. 

 

 

I later asked Anne about the new openness, and she quipped, “It’s just the neighbors.  Who cares if they know?”

 

That got me thinking things through a bit more, and I thought of one situation that actually would have made me feel pretty vulnerable.  I don’t know our current rear neighbors very well, but they seem like nice people. I did not feel that way, however, about their predecessors.  I had “words” with the wife a couple of times about some things regarding our respective dogs.  She initiated those words and, frankly, I thought she was kind of a bitch.  Had Anne’s timing for this new openness been different, I definitely would have felt much more embarrassed if there had been any chance those former neighbors would have seen a spanking in progress, because I have no doubt the wife would have been joyful at seeing me humiliated and might have even brought it up.

 

Speaking of bitchiness, a couple of our commenters last week mentioned that their spouses enjoy either spanking them or being in charge.

 

T said: “My wife enjoys spanking me and for her it’s a turn on.”

 

I commented that it was a shame that women seem to have more trouble embracing their power, leading Cynthia Ellen to observe, “My husband has no problem getting off on control. He loves it! He just doesn't like hurting me so he won't spank hard. I guess maybe it's still easier for men to get aroused by control in our culture.”

 


 

I do see it as problematic that Disciplinary Wives probably are subject to a double standard.  We disciplined husbands often like it when the step up and take charge, but the broader culture doesn’t always seem okay with that.  To some extent, it’s probably not a gender thing.  We’ve created a society in which everyone goes to great lengths to express their devotion to egalitarianism, even if the reality is a lot different.  We are so into equality and suspicious of power that it’s uncomfortable to even suggest that getting off on exercising power might be okay in some contexts.

 

It's a shame, because I think a Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship probably is more likely to work and become core to the dynamic if the wife isn’t constantly concerned that she might be seen as “bitchy” for taking control.  Ironically, while I think women do worry their men may balk if they really do exercise strong control, when I used to run polls here asking what men want “more” of in their DD relationships, the highest number of votes invariably went to things like “more sternness in communications” and being “more openly dominant.”

 


 

Until the recent “open window” incidents, Anne hadn’t shown any real inclination to be more open about her authority or this aspect of our relationship. Yet, she is candid with me that she does, in fact, get off on exercising power.  It’s not so much about the spanking.  It’s about exercising the authority that leads to one.  She says she likes ordering me to go upstairs and get ready and watching me do it.  She likes instructing me to get over her knee or whatever position she’s decided to spank me in.

 

She also clearly gets off on “service domination,” i.e. ordering me to do things around the house or to serve her.  She says she loves it when it’s plain from the look on my face that I so want to tell her to fuck off (she knows how much I hate service domination and being ordered around), yet I comply.  She would plainly be much less into it if I were more into it.  

 


I know the first time Anne carries through with chastising me in public or referring openly to her intention to spank me, I will almost certainly be extremely embarrassed.  Had you asked me a year ago, I would have said it was very unlikely she’d ever take the step of referring openly to her authority and to how she uses it on my naked, upturned butt.  I thought there was some chance she might tell one or more of our kids, but I thought it was highly unlikely the openness would extend to anything more public.  Now, however, I’m much less sure of that.

 

I’m sure when it happens I will absolutely hate it in the moment. But, I also think it’s highly likely that I will find it very arousing in retrospect.  Part of me can’t help but hope she becomes more comfortable over time with openly demonstrating, and reveling in, her own power.  In that light, I found a couple of old comments from real Disciplinary Wives about embracing their “bitchiness.”

 

Danielle: Once I took up the hairbrush, I regretted not having done it when he first asked me. He became an attentive husband, and I discovered I liked being in charge. I like the way I can instantly put him in place with a spanking or just a threat of a spanking if he starts to get argumentative or moody. I think I may always have had an inner bitch that has now been freed. I like having the final say, I like being obeyed, and I like being able to express myself bluntly, either with the hairbrush or a verbal dressing down, when I am dissatisfied. Nobody except my closest friend knows I spank Wayne, but I no longer hide my bossiness from family and friends. I like that people can see I’m the boss.

 

Holly: I think we are all "bitches" to our husbands when the rubber hits the road (so to speak) I reconciled myself to this long ago. The amusing thing is that growing up I thought my mother was a bitch for spanking too often and severely. Now I find although I probably do not spank as often as she did, I certainly spank harder. If a wife wants results she does need to be a bitch sometimes (As Tina Fey said " Bitches get stuff done") I am not saying that being a bitch is necessary to be a good disciplinarian. But sometimes being a bitch is just what is needed and don't be intimidated by the fact that someone (like your husband) might think you are a bitch once in a while.

 

Great advice.

 

I don’t have a concrete topic related to any of this, so just let me know your thoughts and reactions to any of it.

Saturday, September 3, 2022

The Club - Meeting 409 - Erotic v. Disciplinary Spankings - Distinct or Not?

Everything in the world is about sex, except sex.  Sex is about power. -- Oscar Wilde

 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

 

Our week was such that Anne and I were both commenting this afternoon that we feel totally exhausted and, yet, it’s only the beginning of a three-day weekend here in the U.S.  Getting old does kind of suck.  I’m at that stage where I need a weekend to recover from my weekend.

 

 

Thanks to everyone for the robust discussion around a pretty limited topic, i.e. marking.  There’s definitely a wide range of experiences and preferences out there, from actively avoiding to tolerating to willfully causing.

 

Near the end of last week’s discussion, Alan made this topic suggestion, which I’ve posted in full:

 

“I am going to suggest a topic that really deserves at least one post. For years when we discussed the question of “how many are there are out there” we have treated “erotic spanking” as something outside of DD, discipline and certainly FLR’s of any kind – at the same time acknowledging that spanking was almost certainly going mainstream among many adults.

 

For sure distinctions among the types of spanking are complex and appear to reside in the heads of the couple doing the spanking.

 

But just now I am reading a biography of Socrates. Socrates was certainly and old fart and while he didn’t deserve the hemlock, he was irritating a good deal of the time. And one reason he was irritating was his habit of questioning everything. “How do you know” was his regular refrain.

 

So planning to drink neither the kool aid nor hemlock I ask a question some may find irritating: How do you know when you engage in “erotic spanking” that it isn’t actually disciplinary in nature?

 

Think about it. Spanking as a stereotype and a template is inherently about punishment and discipline. We all learn that as children whether we were spanked or not. And in everyday language we tend to use the word spanking to describe punishment in settings as diverse as sports journalism or politics. My point is that spanking as an act and a concept is understood early as a punishment by most people.

 

Yet we are to believe that as adults it suddenly becomes an erotic pleasure perused for its sensual pleasures or to “role play.” There is a page missing there.

 

I don’t doubt that many adults experiment with spanking as a bedroom game without any disciplinary overtones. But once someone continues to incorporate spanking into their relationship after that experimental phase—they are inevitably using it as discipline at some level, often laughing all the way. The logic and purpose of spanking is just too compelling to argue it is just “erotic.”

 

This also explains why many people report “evolving” from erotic spanking to DD. They didn’t evolve. They just allowed the reality of what they were doing into consciousness. Many “erotic spankers” never do this –and continue to make the distinction between what they do and the much scarier discipline stuff they would never do.

 

So let’s talk about whether people are into spanking or not --because the distinctions we make, between “erotic” spanking and DD – don’t hold up to close scrutiny. They are distinctions without a difference.

 

 

The excerpts I bolded above are the ones that evoked a response in me, though unlike the response of the Athenian citizenry to Socrates, it wasn’t irritation, except maybe a tad at the bit about consciousness and accepting reality.

I was in a hurry when I read Alan’s suggested topic, but I put some initial thoughts out there, which were as follows:

 

“My initial reaction is that the quoted paragraph is kind of a non sequitur. There are obvious overlaps between disciplinary and erotic spankings, and it might be that real life spanking stimulated a desire to simulate disciplinary spankings in an erotic context. But, the desire to simulate a disciplinary spanking doesn't mean that the simulated experience becomes real, let alone that it is inevitable that it becomes so.

 

If this were a Venn diagram, it seems like you're insisting that if there is an "erotic" oval and a "DD" oval the overlap is 100% My view is that just because there is an intersecting oval between Oval Erotic and Oval DD doesn't mean that there is 100% equivalence between the two. The fact that A includes B, and C includes B, doesn't meant that A = C.

 

If anything, based on the anecdotal evidence, I kind of see the argument working in reverse. People may incorporate DD and believe they are doing it for purely non-erotic purposes, but for one or both parties it either becomes erotic or they come to admit there is an erotic element to it.

 

IMO, it's not the case that these are distinctions without a difference. We've discussed here before why many of us believe DD is not some subset of BDSM or DS. I believe that there are important distinctions in intention/motivation and also desired effect/outcome.

 

You also said, "They just allowed the reality of what they were doing into consciousness." I'm always suspicious of any argument that depends on its opponents being oblivious to or incorrect about their "real" motives or desires. Seems like that Freudian view of things has been pretty well debunked. I personally don't like it because the assertion that someone thinks they are acting for one reason but really it's another reason isn't provable one way or another, and taking that position would require me to assert that I really know more about what makes someone tick than they themselves know.”

 


I don’t really have a lot to add to that, but I’ll quickly make a few additional points and then turn it over to the group. 

 

First, Alan said, “This also explains why many people report “evolving” from erotic spanking to DD.”  I’m not sure it’s factually the case that many people report evolving from erotic spanking to DD.  It’s probably the case that many of our readers report that to have been the case, but I don’t think that can or should be taken as an indication that many people who are into erotic spanking evolve, transition, adopt, or experiment with DD.  Obviously there is no real data to turn to, but if you take the position that Alan took in his first paragraph that erotic spanking has gone mainstream, but the also acknowledge that DD seemingly has not, the more plausible conclusion would seem to me to be that very few who experiment with or get into erotic spanking end up doing the same with DD.

 

Second, I can think of all sorts of areas in which something may be seen as a punishment in one context or at one stage in life yet be seen as beneficial at another.  How about, to take a pedestrian example, running?  Many adults run either because they enjoy it or because they think it has beneficial health effects that make it worth any discomfort.  Yet, most student athletes probably experienced it as a punishment.  I think this reflects a few fairly common-sense truths.  First, context matters.  Second, our perceptions of an activity's utility or desirability may evolve over time. Third, our perceptions regarding an activity's utility may come to outweigh our natural aversion to it.  



Third, I do balk at the suggestion that erotic spanking versus disciplinary spanking is a distinction without a difference.  There are obvious differences that we’ve talked about here dozens of times in the motivations of the parties, the agreed-upon purpose, etc.  I don’t the fact that both may share some level of eroticism renders those very substantial distinctions to be without differences.  In one, eroticism is the entire point.  In the other, it’s more of a byproduct or one component, but only one, of the underlying drive or motivation.  Further, as I said in my original comment, I don’t think it follows that because people once experienced or were fascinated by real discipline and they now engage in simulated disciplines means that those simulations of discipline are or will inevitably become real discipline. 

 

Finally, I do take issue with the assertion that people who see a difference between erotic and disciplinary spanking to so because they aren’t conscious of their underlying reality.  To me, it’s really the same as asserting, “You disagree with me about what makes you tick. It can’t be because you know what makes you tick better than I do.  It must be because you lack self-awareness.” Though, I also fell into making that kind of argument a bit myself when I said that some people who are into disciplinary spankings may come to “admit” there is an erotic element in it.

 

I look forward to your responses to Alan’s thought-provoking topic.  For those in the U.S., enjoy your long weekend.

Wednesday, August 24, 2022

The Club - Meeting 408 - Marking

“Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men.” -Thomas Huxley

 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

 

I suspected it would be a dangerous thing to ask this crowd for advice on what Anne should do about my recent forgetfulness, and rule-breaking, and arguing.  Here’s a summary of the comments:

 

    “Once my wife punished each and every offense, my memory improved. It wasn't a conscious change. The spankings help condition me to perform my chore.  If you are spanked every single time you leave the garage door open, eventually you will be conditioned to do it without thinking.”

 

    “I feel you should have been spanked for each occurrence of the garage door situation. We also try to punish as soon after the incident as possible. She would not wait till evening, but rather, upon finding the garage door open, immediately spank you for it.”

 

    “I feel that when it is a safety issue like the garage door that the response should be strict. You should have gotten a spanking for each and every instance.”

 

    “This is fairly simple in our house. If there are multiple offenses, then there are multiple spankings, usually on different days. If it is a repeat offense then it is multiple spankings, again on different days.  A couple years ago this meant that for multiple, repeat offenses that were fairly serious for me, I got 2 a day, 3 days per week, for a month. It was just plain awful. ”

 

    “Like many others, I agree Anne should spank you each and every time the garage door is left open, or for any other thing you continue to do that annoys her. I get spanked quickly after any misbehavior.”

 

    “At least for me, mixing issues up in one session just doesn’t work. I would keep the spankings for different issues separate, especially because of the entirely different character of each offense (intentional or not, etc.). If this means multiple sessions, I think she should do them on sequential days and in increasing order of importance: forgetfulness, procrastination, and finally outright rule-breaking.”

 

    “The idea my wife and I have had, but never done, is that if she says I am to be spanked, I could choose to “challenge” it and explain why I thought I shouldn’t be spanked. If she agreed with my reasoning, then fine, no spanking. If my points are all valid, but she still thinks I deserve a spanking, then I get a spanking. If she thinks my reasoning is weak and I am just trying to get out of the spanking, then she gives me the spanking and then some additional pre-determined punishment for trying to get out of it, like 50 hard swats with the paddle or 12 stripes with the cane or something.”

 

Well, there you have it.  The prescription we’ve talked about here many times for actually changing behavior: consistency, strictness and severity.

 

Here is how it played out in real life.  When we were in bed on Wednesday night, she asked me about whether I’d done something that broke one of our rules.  I admitted that I had.  She told me that I’d be spanked first thing the next morning.  Given our usual issues with consistency, I thought there was a fairly good chance she would forget.  Nope. 

 

It didn’t happen first thing in the morning, but by mid-morning I’d received a hard spanking over her knee, with what have become her go-to instruments, the ebony hairbrush, and long-handled bath brush.

 


The next day, I gave her a journal entry that included the above summary advice from the group.  I pointed out that I was doing so very reluctantly as part of suggesting a second spanking was in order because what I’d be spanked for the day before wasn’t the only recent offense; there had been efforts to argue or delay.  It is very rare for me to carry through on suggesting or asking for a spanking, but for once I kind of wanted to push things forward in terms of consistency.

 

She agreed and that morning I found myself bent over the bed for another spanking.  This time, consistent with ZM’s advice regarding arguing, I suggested she use a paddle (though I didn’t bring up his reference to 50 swats).

 

We used to use fraternity-style paddles a lot, but over the last year or so her go-to implements had really narrowed down to the hairbrush, bath brush and a leather paddle or strap.  It’s probably been at least a year and a half, perhaps two years, since I’ve had a hard session with a wooden paddle.

 


Which is the impetus for this week’s topic.  For some reason, the paddle caused some fairly substantial bruising, but most on the inside of each cheek.

 

It’s become atypical for a spanking to leave me with significant bruising or marking, other than some oval-shaped discoloration than can sometimes last a day or two.

 

Even a very hard spanking may leave me with only a few visible marks the next day.  Sometimes my bottom does look in bad shape immediately after the spanking, but the marks typically don't last very long. 

 

That wasn’t always the case.  When we first started DD, a significant paddling with the fraternity-style paddle could leave me bruised for several days.  Yet, even though we were newcomers, it surprised how quickly Anne got comfortable with even very substantial and long-lasting bruising.  It never seemed to make her very squeamish.  In fact, she would sometimes make me drop my pants to show her my butt’s  condition and would express disappointment if the marking wasn’t impressive or faded too quickly.  

 


However, when last week’s paddling left me bruised, she did get squeamish.  I’m really not sure why.  We talked about it afterward, and I reminded her that I used to bruise a lot and that it never bothered her.  The reminder did seem to help, and I assured her that she should not let bruising or marking lead to terminating a spanking “early.”  (Though, I admit I’m glad she didn’t give me anything close to ZM’s recommendation of 50 swats.)

 

One other obvious issue with marking is it might be seen by others, though in my recent case the bruising didn’t last long and was confined to the inside of my cheeks where it wasn’t very visible.

 

I could have easily had such an unintended viewing experience a few weeks ago, however.  I went to see a dermatologist to have a worrisome spot examined.  It turned out to be nothing problematic, but the dermatologist suggested a full-body screening, since I hadn’t had one in a while.  I complied, and I was lucky in the timing. I hadn’t been spanked in two or three weeks, so there was nothing to see.  Though, it could have gone the other way had I timed the visit differently.

 


If I saw a guy with bruising on his butt, I probably would attribute it to spanking but, of course, there are times that supposition could be dead wrong.  I should know better, because I’ve had at least one very significant incident of bruising that had nothing at all to do with spanking. Four or five years ago, I took a bad fall after a business dinner.  I was walking from the second-story restaurant down a flight of very steep concrete stairs.  I’m not sure exactly what caused it, but both my feet came out from under me.  My body’s full weight came down on the intersection of my butt and the corner of one of the concrete stairs.  I could barely walk back to my hotel. The bruising was bad that night and, by the next morning I had a deep black and purple bruising covering both cheeks.  It looked pretty much exactly like what you’d expect from a very severe paddling.

 

Tell us about your experiences with marking and bruising. Does it happen often?

 

Is it an express goal or, rather, something she tries to avoid?

 

When it’s over, does she inspect her handiwork or ask to see the damage the next day?

 

Does she take pride in the tangible evidence of a job well done or, rather, does significant bruising or marking make her squeamish? Do you ever look at your own marks? What feelings arise when you do so?




We've talked before about whether bruising or marking have been seen accidentally by someone who isn’t aware of your DD lifestyle?  But, what about something more intentional?  Have you, or your Disciplinarian, ever intentionally displayed a marked or bruised bottom to someone or consciously left it on display for others to see?

 

 

Have you ever seen someone else’s butt and deduced they probably had been spanked recently?

 

I hope you all have a great week.

 

Sunday, August 14, 2022

The Club - Meeting 407 - Arguing, Multiple Offenses & Repeat Offenses

“You can't talk your way out of a problem you behaved your way into!” - Stephen R. Covey

 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

 

We had a good discussion last week.  I know it covered some controversial ground, and everyone kept the conversation respectful.  I thought the most interesting part was about whether a drop in the frequency of corporal punishment at home and in schools is likely to result in a drop in domestic discipline over time, since most people did seem to think their interest in DD as adults was connected, at least in part, to seeing or hearing spankings at school or at home growing up. It does seem logical that if people are exposed to it less as kids, interest in it as an adult is less likely to be triggered. 

 

Yet, it’s a really convoluted cause-and-effect environment right now, and I don’t pretend to have any idea how it will ultimately play out. On the one hand, there seems to be less societal shaming of kinky or unconventional sex practices than at any time in modern history, more access to sexual and spanking content on the internet, and the wild success of 50 Shades would seem to indicate a lot of openness to kink, especially kink involving dominance and power dynamics. Yet, studies keep showing that both teenagers and adults are having less sex and delaying it until later in life. So, all the new openness around sex seems and the breakdown in societal mores around sex and kink is correlated with less sex actually taking place.  Further complicating things, while DD has sexual aspects, it’s not about sex per se, so I don’t know how strong any correlation might be between overall sexual trends and trends in DD.  All I know is, it seems very complicated and more than a little arbitrary.

 

Anyway, it’s been an interesting few weeks here.  I feel like after getting off to a really slow start to whatever this new phase of life I’m in is—early retirement, semi-retirement, hard pause . . . whatever you want to call it—things are kind of picking up. It’s probably a result of Anne joining me in the state of joblessness.  It seems like we’re traveling more, planning travel more, going out more in general, reconnecting with friends and making new ones, etc.  I could see this new, more active phase accelerating, particularly since I think she’s a lot more certain that the active work phase of her life is done, while I’m still kind of on the fence.

 


I also feel like things are changing on the Domestic Discipline front, though so far it’s been more about the intention than the actual disciplinary action.  Part of it is Anne seems more focused on it now that work isn’t competing for her attention. But, the other part is some odd escalation in my behavioral issues.  I say odd in that old problems aren’t (in my opinion) getting any worse are actually a lot better than they were a year or so ago.  Yet, on that “small things” front we talked about a couple of weeks ago, things have gotten worse and in weird ways. 

 

During that discussion, I talked about how Anne was getting increasingly mad about me failing to lock doors and also leaving the garage door open.  Not an hour after I left a comment on the blog about that happening, I did it again!  And, this time she followed through and spanked me for it that night.

 


 

Yet, I did it again within a day or two of that spanking, and it has happened several times since.  The odd thing is, until recently this was a very infrequent problem. Now, it seems to be happening all the time. 

 

I am very clear in my own mind that I’m taking her concerns about this seriously, yet the problem seemed to get worse, not better, after she spanked me for it. I honestly have no idea what’s causing the problem.  I would actually worry about whether my mind is slipping in a medically troubling way, yet the problem seems to be manifesting in only this one, very particular way.

 


 While the incidents kept piling up, Anne didn’t give me another spanking.  She threatened it multiple times, but it didn’t actually happen.  I will own up to it; the failure at follow-through was attributable mainly to my efforts at delay.

 

While I feel like her intentions around DD have solidified in the last few months, unfortunately, so far she hasn't developed quite enough strictness to just put her foot down. So, we both bear some responsibility here.  She does need to get more comfortable with not only giving an order but with actually making it stick in the face of some moderate resistance or questioning.  But, I also need to get much better at simply doing what she tells me to do, without argument or undermining.


I feel like my efforts to get myself off the hook and avoid accountability are becoming a bigger problem. It’s not just failing repeatedly to close a garage door.  I mentioned a few weeks ago that I’d gone on a little adventure and, through sheer absent-mindedness and inattention, didn’t take care of some gear maintenance.  It caused some distraction and extra work for myself and others and, honestly, it could have created a safety issue.  I was pretty angry at myself for creating the situation and, when we got back, I had decided I was going to ask Anne for a hard spanking. Basically, for once I was determined to hold myself accountable. 

 

But, then came all the garage door incidents, and I got spanked for one of them.  I should have still asked for a spanking for the separate inattention-related problem, but I didn’t. And, as several days went by, the connection between offense and accountability seemed more and more strained, until I finally dropped all intentions around asking to be spanked for it. 

 

Then, there was an incident last week in which we disagreed on a particular behavior and whether it should result in a spanking.  With the benefit of hindsight, we both had legitimate points. I think I was right regarding the overall issue, but she pointed out that there was one aspect of the behavior that we had specifically agreed would result in spankings.   

 


The bottom line is, no spanking happened, even though it probably should have and would have in the absence of me arguing with her.

 

We had a discussion here last year about these self-defeating efforts to delay or avoid punishment.  I do know it is self-defeating.  I say I want her to be more strict and stern, yet in the moment I can’t seem to help but undermine her efforts.  I truly get that it’s unfair to her, because she tries to be more assertive like I say I want, but then I don’t exactly cooperate with that process.

 

Yet, part of that resistance seems almost inevitable to me, precisely because things are starting to seem more “real.”  When she gets more assertive and more aggressive in ordering spankings, I try harder to get out of them. It’s unfair and counterproductive, but isn’t it also precisely what you would expect when discipline starts becoming truly imposed? I’ve said I want it to feel non-consensual, and when I genuinely don’t want to be spanked and actively undermine it, yet it happens nonetheless, that is a spanking that has, in fact, been imposed.  

 

Therefore,  when I am unsuccessful in undermining her resolve, it actually augments her authority and the FLR aspect of the relationship. Trying to get out of it but failing to do so confirms her status as the real “boss.”   

 


It’s a fine line, but if she sticks to her guns in the face of my efforts to delay or avoid, something that might otherwise undermine her authority ends up reinforcing it.  As I said about this last year, “[I]mposing discipline in the face of some mild resistance from me results in a virtuous circle in which her confidence goes up each time she gives me a spanking when I really don’t want one.”

 

I know there’s a lot to unpack in the above, and I think I’m going to leave the topic somewhat open-ended. But, I think it boils down to, I’d like to know how you think Anne should deal with both the repeat offenses (garage door closure) and with separate offenses that happen fairly close in time (my inattention regarding safety issues on my adventure, and the garage door, and the other incident where there was at least one aspect of rule-breaking)?

 


And, what about arguing?  It’s interesting that this seems like something that is bound to happen from time to time in any real DD relationship, yet when I searched for past topics on it to crib for this week’s post I didn’t find much.  So, while we’ve addressed repeat and multiple offenses fairly recently, I don’t think we’ve really taken “arguing” head-on as an independent topic.

 

If you are on the receiving end, how would your disciplinarian deal with you doing something like leaving a garage door open after you’d been spanked for that same thing a day or two before?  How would they deal with multiple but different offenses happening close together?  Would that usually result in multiple spankings?  If so, would they all usually happen in the same session?  Different sessions on the same day?  Spread out over multiple days? What about arguing?  Would that be treated as a separate offense and spanked separately?

 

 

For the disciplinary wives (I recognize few are participating these days, but maybe this “nudge” will help), how do you deal with repeated offenses and multiple different offenses?  Do you have a go-to response if he tries to argue or delay?

 

I hope you all have a great week.