“A vigorous temper is not altogether an evil. Men who are as easy as an old shoe are generally of as little worth.” ― Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you all had a good week. Ours had us both kind of shaking our heads. Do you have those weeks when everything you own seems to break down all at once? That was the last couple of weeks for us. Two cars. One dog. Then, an act of carelessness on my part took another vehicle partly out of commission. Guess I didn’t learn what I needed to after that incident I referred to a few months ago in which my carelessness about some mechanical issues created problems on a trip. I may post more about that next week. In the meantime, this week I think we both felt like we were left limping from one disaster to the next. Oh well . . . first-world problems.
We had a good discussion last week, though perhaps in spite of the topic and not because of it. The “implements” topic always leaves me a little bored. However, it was interesting that this time it seemed to bore everyone else too, while it used to be a guaranteed crowd-pleaser. That warms my heart a little, as it feels like althoug the readership may have shrunk a little over the last few years, those who are around now seem to, frankly, have a bent toward exploring more meaty topics.
Along those lines, something that came up multiple times last week was emotions, including emotional reactions on both ends of the paddle.
There was this from DWC Fred:
“Yes, the psychological atmosphere is definitely a major factor, not just the pain. As Ann has gotten more empowered, so has let more emotion show when she scolds me. I’m so embarrassed and remorseful when she pulls down my underwear that the pain is important, but not the main thing. The embarrassment and shame of the reason for the spanking have almost been enough to get me crying. Add the pain and I’m there !!”
Alan brought up the following scenario in relation to his wife’s infrequent, but emotionally powerful, use of hand spankings:
“I am describing a process that can go from 0 to 60 in a millisecond. Here is a fictive example of what I am describing (maybe not all that fictive)
HER-- Get over here and stand in front of me
Me-- Yes Ma’am (scurrying to stand where she is indicating)
HER -- Didn’t I tell you I wanted that desk cleaned out by today (Smack), (smack) (smack) over trousers or jeans
Me -- Yes Ma’am, I’m sorry I forgot
HER-- What happens when you forget a command I give you ?
Me- You punish me
HER -- I spank you, hard and long and that is what is going to happen now (smack) (smack) (smack) Now get my strap and get your bum back here pronto (smack) (smack) (smack)
And it can go on and on like that for long minutes before she even takes my pants down or tells me to do so. And when she does get my pants down, she might continue the spanks to bare bum until she is ready to move on to the main event. And for a given spanking it might continue through a pre -spank scolding or post spanking time in the corner.
This doesn’t happen every spanking, in fact maybe one in ten and she has to be at least somewhat angry. Her use of this is not predictable and pretty spontaneous.
But the psychological effect on me in terms of making me obedient are equivalent to her slowly lowering my pants while daring me to stop her or her slapping my face (very rare) to underscore a point. And she knows the effect it has because I told her long ago.
Maybe
my reaction to this is more unusual than I think (we all tend to think everyone
reacts to things the way we do) but it just puts me on autopilot in terms of
obeying her and following her orders.”
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Alan’s comment led ZM to this observation about the psychological aspects of a “satisfying” spanking, i.e. one in which the spanker feels truly punished:
“I think this really goes back to what Alan was saying above about the psychological aspects of spanking. How many of us have wanted a spanking to end, only to then think that it would have been better had it went on longer? How many of us have wanted to be spanked to tears, only to find it difficult or impossible get to that state? There is something that is not happening at the psychological level to really satisfy that need to feel punished, so we try to compensate. "If only I could find something that would be more painful but wouldn't leave too much physical damage..."
The reason that most schools only had one type of implement - whether it was a cane, strap, tawse, paddle, or something else (largely determined by cultural factors) - is primarily because one type is all that was needed. I am writing about school here, since that is what you were writing about, but it also held true in the home, for pretty much the same reasons. Even though we may have had fear of the particular tool being used on us, the punishment was never really about the tool. It was the whole mortifying experience. The shame of being sent to the office. The fear of what was going to happen. The struggle to try to take it without crying. The embarrassment of returning to class. The teasing by classmates.
The simple fact is that being spanked by your wife, who you are so intimately connected with and hopefully truly and fully share life with, is not going to be anywhere near as embarrassing as school or other childhood punishments were.
So interestingly, I think the reason that we accumulate so many spanking tools is EXACTLY the same reason that we keep coming back to witnesses here on the blog; no matter how hard she spanks you in the privacy of your home when it is just the two of you, it somehow is lacking the full psychological impact that you need.” – ZM
Alan and DWC Fred’s comments both reference the spanker displaying some righteous anger, giving voice to some of their real feelings. ZM’s comment focuses more on the mindset of the spankee but links it back to Alan’s comments about the spanker doing something to put the spankee in a mindset that causes real humbling, compliance, and repentance. I also think that his hypothesis that we are so fascinated with witnesses because they would take us closer to the psychological vulnerability of a school or parental spanking is potentially really profound.
My own reactions to displays of emotion, including anger, before or during a spanking are complicated. On the one hand, matter-of-fact lectures regarding why I’m being spanked don’t do much for me one way or another, and many of our pre-spanking lectures are like that. Instead of this . . .
I sometimes feel I need something more like this . . .
Yet, as I’ve said here before, part of me really gravitates toward an “all business,” matter-of-fact demeanor. You break a rule, she deals with it, period.
I don’t think the choice between the two—anger and emotion vs. all business—is binary. It’s a matter of context. For example, an over-the-top emotional lecture regarding some minor infraction wouldn’t be humbling, at least not for me. Rather, it would make me doubt the disciplinarian’s emotional stability.
On the other hand, if my wife really is riled up about something, it’s better for her and for our DD relationship if she cuts loose with it. Further, while losing her shit at every minor thing would make me question her stability, just because a particular instance of disobeying or breaking a rule might seem minor to me, it might be major to her if it’s something that has happened several times. She would be right in that circumstance to feel some real anger and to let me know she’s pissed.
Now, I may not feel that way in the moment. A couple of months ago, Anne did get really pissed off about something, and the next day she gave me what was probably the strongest lecture she’s ever given. I didn’t fully agree with some of her premises and, in the following days, I definitely ruminated on some of those areas where we didn’t see eye to eye. It was one of the rare times when I felt like a spanking didn’t fully clear the air, though the spanking itself wasn’t the issue; it was the lecture.
Yet, while it took a while, I eventually had one of those post-spanking epiphanies we’ve talked about before. In this instance, it wasn’t that I came around to her view on all the underlying facts or how the behavior should be measured. Rather, at some point it occurred to me that my ongoing feelings of resistance were exactly that – resistance. Part of me didn’t want to surrender to her authority to judge the seriousness of the behavior and express that judgment however she saw fit. It was an example of coming fully around to something Alan said a few weeks ago:
"When you enter a DD relationship your behavior is being judged by your wife or girlfriend. So, her judgment really determines if your behavior is well-disciplined or not. And you find yourself being evaluated for things you probably never considered important before.”
Now, like I said, this may be very unpleasant in the moment. Being “judged” or “evaluated” . . . my ego really chafes at that. And, that’s exactly what I eventually came around to. My ego is pretty strong, and sometimes it is going to take way more than a cold, clinical application of the paddle to break down my defenses and get me to really accept accountability.
How about you? Do you prefer "all business," or are displays of anger and emotion something that helps establish your roles or helps you get into a compliant, obedient or contrite emotional state? Or, does it depend on the context?
When your wife does express anger or other strong emotions, does it change the spanking in terms of severity, duration, etc.?
In addition to displays of anger, are there other things your wife does to put you in that state of “full psychological impact” that ZM describes?
I hope you all have a great week.
My wife refuses to punish me if she is angry. Spanking is administered in a cool, businesslike way. She treats spanking me as another chore she has to do. That bothered me in the beginning. I thought that punishment would be stricter if administered in anger. We discussed this quite a few times. She insisted that she wouldn't spank in anger.
ReplyDeleteI've come to realize that a cool, businesslike spanking is much worse than one delivered in anger. She knows what she wants to accomplish and goes about it with detachment. She isn't looking for me to beg forgiveness. She's not interested. Her job is to deliver ten minutes of painful punishment to me. Nothing is going to stop her. If she was working off anger, she would stop when she dispelled the emotion. That never happens when she is detached.
I think she decided to never spank in anger is that she fears losing control. I doubt that she would spin out so far that she would injure me. She doesn't agree. That's her reason for delivering unemotional punishment. I've learned that her approach is fierce and very painful. Maybe she would go out of control if she were angry.
"I think she decided to never spank in anger is that she fears losing control. I doubt that she would spin out so far that she would injure me. She doesn't agree."
DeleteThat sounds like an area where she's right to trust her own judgment.
"...she fears losing control." - I am pretty sure my wife felt this in the beginning. She was almost afraid to see herself in this state. She also felt that way about exercising power in general, that maybe she would just go too far with it. As time has passed, she has become more comfortable switching into that role, probably helped by the fact that it is so not her normally.
DeleteOf course your wife knows herself better than anyone, so as Dan said, she is probably correct trusting her own judgement on this.
-ZM
It really is impressive hearing how many wives take a step back, if feeling not entirely under control before administering a spanking. I am not sure how many men possess that kind of self-awareness, which may be why,among the genders, we seem to be the most prone to violence. Extended corner time has been all my wife has ever needed to cool down. But she has postponed or even cancelled spankings because one of both or us was drinking and she felt it unsafe
DeleteAlan
Although I've said we've always sort of adopted "anytime, anywhere, for any reason," your comment illustrates that's not quite true. A tipsy spanker is a hard limit for me, mainly for safety reasons.
DeleteI drink so little (2-3 beers / year) that I would consider myself to be a non-drinker. However, at times I have been on pain medication that might have a somewhat similar affect: Reducing my perceived severity of corporal punishment.
DeleteDan's comment re "tipsy spankers" would also seem to apply to "spankee." Neither party would want a situation where the wife might inadvertently inflict too much punishment, and cause actual "longer term harm" through trying to achieve a certain level or response / contrition of a husband who has been somewhat "numbed."
Sorry, Donn, but I don't actually see them as the same. I do think that spanking an inebriated spankee is kind of pointless, because it won't achieve a certain level of response/contrition. I think that's qualitatively different than setting a "no alcohol" limit on the spanker. In terms of *why* such a limit might apply, they are just totally different things.
DeleteWell, I think it depends upon how you define "qualitative difference."
DeleteYes, different "mechanisms", but in both cases intoxication could lead to harm to the spankee. I thought potential harm to the recipient was what the safety concern was about. Not the wife falling down and hurting her . . .
My wife is mostly matter-of-fact about discipline, not offering to address more than issues I've proposed and she's agreed to track. The few times she's proactively expressed exasperation with behavior of mine have been absolutely thrilling. I think that thrill is largely because she's threatening to expand DD beyond my list of flaws I've approved to be shared and tracked. I know it's better for me if she wants to also tackle flaws that I'm still holding onto, or am not fully aware of yet. Plus, it seems like a step to her truly calling the shots in DD.
ReplyDeleteHow can I encourage her exasperation to more fully express itself?
I think it's a process. I just keep reminding Anne that if she finds herself feeling frustrated with me, she should take that as a signal to at least consider whether a spanking is warranted. She's been slowly moving down that path, but I admit I'm surprised at how long that process seems to be.
DeleteMy wife is exactly the same. The direction may be sure, but the progress in that direction is agonizingly slow. But maybe it is better that way since I may not be ready for it if it were to move too quickly? After all, DD for me is a whole lot of wanting what I don't want when I actually get it.
Delete"How can I encourage her exasperation to more fully express itself?" - I have asked my wife pretty much the same thing. Certainly, there are things that I do that irritate her, and she always talks about becoming more stern or strict, yet somehow when I do manage to irritate her, she doesn't usually turn to spanking. She tells me that she simply doesn't think about it in the moment, and only later does it occur to her that it would have been a perfect time to express herself through DD.
I try to remind myself that this has been in my head a lot longer than hers; I have thought about it a whole lot for most of my life. Even though we have been doing this for 6 1/2 years, and even though she really has latched onto this and kind of made it her own, it is still a lot more embedded in my thinking.
-ZM
"She tells me that she simply doesn't think about it in the moment, and only later does it occur to her that it would have been a perfect time to express herself through DD." My wife has said this too, almost word for word.
DeleteMy wife too says exactly the same thing. We're trying an experiment to help correct this. She is giving me shorter maintenance spankings three days a week. The idea is that if she remembers that I frustrated or upset her, she can simply add time and energy to the scheduled spankings. We've only been at it two weeks. However, she's extended one spanking for interrupting her.
DeleteI like the reframing of expressing herself, rather than expressing exasperation in particular. I'm taken with the possibilities of that in the context of DD. I know in much of our life my wife admires and appreciates me. If I just want her to me upset or angry with me, she has to set aside her real feelings, the ones she prefers to have, during those times, or intentionally ruin those feelings, to spank me with feeling. What if she could bring those positive feelings to the spanking instead and we could achieve a fuller connection between our whole lives and DD?
DeleteThat reframing makes sense. I also don't doubt that some wives just don't get all that upset by things that are subject to DD.
DeleteHi MW,
Delete"I know in much of our life my wife admires and appreciates me. If I just want her to me upset or angry with me, she has to set aside her real feelings, the ones she prefers to have, during those times, or intentionally ruin those feelings, to spank me with feeling." - I struggle with this same thing. I have said here many times before that one of the things that keeps DD from going very far very fast is that my wife mostly is just so in love with me, and as you so aptly wrote "admires and appreciates me."
I don't want her to put aside those feelings, since obviously they are very desirable feelings to have. And I don't want her to intentionally be upset or angry with me, since that is counterproductive. Nor do I want her to pretend to be angry at me, or just make things up as an excuse to spank me.
Rather, what I do want is for her to use those opportunities where she is frustrated, upset, or angry at me - however rare they might be - to exercise her authority. In those cases, I don't want her to hold back or to wait until she is settled down at all.
Furthermore, I want her to set and hold me to much higher standards; when I don't act the way that the husband that she admires or appreciates should act, then she can spank me for that (even if I am acting better than most every other guy),
-ZM
I agree and disagree with Angry Lion.
ReplyDeleteI wish my wife would discipline me immediately when she is mad. To me,
I believe it would resolve the issues immediately. Instead of her harboring a grudge or being upset with me, I feel a good sound spanking would clear the slate immediately. We are still working on it. I also need to be scolded and told how disappointed she is in me.
I don’t want the spanking to be delivered in a business like environment. I want my punishment to occur when I’ve committed my infractions. I want my wife to be mad,
angry and if that means the beating is more severe, then so be it. This is when the lesson is learned. A few days later to me defeats the purpose of the punishment. It’s almost like punishing a dog who pooped two days ago on the carpet. The dog now doesn’t know why he is being punished. Last week, I discussed an issue where my wife felt disrespected at a function. I apologized and she stated I would learn a lesson tomorrow. Unfortunately, family did not leave at the appointed time and punishment was not delivered in a timely manner. I now feel that punishment a week and a half later would defeat the purpose of DD for me anyway. I don’t feel now that a spanking would have any effect on me. Although I didn’t want a spanking at the time, I wish it had occurred. If my wife felt slighted and hurt, then even if I didn’t agree, I need to be punished . I guess this probably goes back to childhood where punishment was met out immediately after the infraction.
T
Regarding timing, for me a spanking a few days later still does send a message. But, a week and a half later has no effect on me. Now, I do leave open the possibility that it could have an effect on *her* if she's still angry about something. But, it probably wouldn't have any impact on me or on the behavior.
DeleteI am the same way as Dan. If a spanking happens a few days later, it does send a message, but more than a week or so it becomes pointless.
Delete"I do leave open the possibility that it could have an effect on *her* if she's still angry about something." - One of the most fascinating things about my wife when it comes to DD is her ability to just set her anger aside for a time. She can be angry about something, and then once she decides that she will deal with it later, she returns completely to normal. But all that anger is still there waiting to be dealt with. It is like she takes the anger, puts it in a box, and puts that box on the shelf. She doesn't think about it and she is just her normal happy, nice self. But then at the appointed time, she takes that box off the shelf and opens it, and suddenly all those feelings are back in full force. It is something that I have never really seen before in anyone else. And interestingly enough, when this does happen, just me seeing her with these emotions somehow seems to return all my emotions to me as well (guilt, shame, remorse, etc.).
-ZM
"It is like she takes the anger, puts it in a box, and puts that box on the shelf." I served under a CEO at my old gig who had--or at least claimed to have--this same ability, and he described it in exactly that way. He said he would simply put an emotional issue in box, tie a bow on it, and put it on a shelf until it was time to deal with it.
DeleteWhatever that capacity is, I not only don't have it; I'm the opposite. Once I'm pissed about something, I have a very, very hard time letting it go until there is some confrontation or resolution.
It is interesting that when your wife takes her box off the shelf and displays the emotions, your own feelings about the event also come back.
I don't have this ability to compartmentalize my feelings, either. I spend way too much time thinking about things and often stewing about things (mostly work related), even when I know that the issue at hand simply won't be resolved anytime soon. It is like when something gets stuck in my mind, it is on endless loop until it is resolved.
DeleteAs for my feelings coming back when my wife displays her emotions, I assume it is because I have such a strong emotional connection with her, so it is probably more that I feel guilt or shame about making her feel that way more than actual guilt or shame tying back to whatever the incident was, though it is kind of hard to tell the difference in those feelings.
-ZM
It's the same for me. if a week passes before I'm punished, it has no effect on me regarding my behavior. The punishment is effective if she administers it no more than three or four days later.
DeleteMy life partner does not like to punish at all but will certainly do so when needed. We both tend to agree with T (anonymous), a discipline spanking is best when delivered at the time of the offense or as soon as possible afterwards. Perhaps one of the few who can spank in anger but control her delivery. She wants it to hurt, but not harm. She may increase the force a bit or extend the duration or use a more painful position as well. She is much more business-like for a scheduled maintenance spanking. As for my feelings, I feel terrible when I have displeased her and that is sometimes worse than the physical pain. A scolding actually makes me feel worse. I would much rather take the spanking at the time of the infraction. Even when away from home, as she has done in the past, she will take me aside and administer the discipline and then return to the activities of the day.
ReplyDelete:Perhaps one of the few who can spank in anger but control her delivery. She wants it to hurt, but not harm." Very well put.
Delete"She wants it to hurt, but not harm" seems like about the perfect way to describe DD when it is properly done.
Delete-ZM
Thank you both. She can spank hard and punish effectively, but still would never go overboard. Like I said a few meetings ago, if she feels I warrant more, she spanks me again several minutes later.
DeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI never did get to commenting last week on the topic, though I did comment on a few others’ comments, so I am writing a bit here on it.
Paddles – we have many paddles, because they were kind of my thing. Most are wood (all homemade), but we also have a couple of lexan paddles.
Canes – We have a couple of rattan ones, several Delrin, and one Lexan.
Whippier things – Two riding crops from a horse tack store, a dressage whip, a homemade martinet, a homemade loopy johnny
Rubber things – Cane-iac Devil’s Braid, cane-iac Curse of Dana
Straps, belts, etc. – We have a thick leather strap bought from a horse tack shop, several belts, and a London Tanners DD strap.
Of all of these, the only new thing in the past year or two is the DD strap from London Tanners. I shipped it to my mom’s house in the states when I was visiting, trying to avoid an experience with customs like Markus shared! Anyway, it was delayed and I was sure it was going to arrive after I left, and my mom is not one to leave a package unopened, since to her the concept of privacy is completely alien. Due to some last-minute heroics by London Tanners, I got it the day before I left the states.
My wife probably uses about half of the tools from time to time, but it entirely depends on the situation.
Paddles – my wife loves the feel in her hand and the sound they make. However, that same sound also prevents them from being used much of the time.
Canes – Perhaps her favorite tool is her larger Delrin cane. It is just incredibly painful, so I kind of dread it. She seems to fit it into just about every spanking, whether for punishment, discipline (like for check-ins), or fun. She doesn’t use anywhere near full force with it, though she thinks she does. If she did….
Whippy things – she has only used the dressage whip a few times. I think she likes it ok, but it is kind of long so it takes some space to use. She doesn’t like the Loopy Johnny or martinet all that much, because they tend to bounce back and hit her hand.
Straps – she doesn’t like belts because they also bounce back at times unless delivered full force, but she does like the DD strap and uses it now almost every spanking.
Rubber tools – She uses the devil’s braid quite a bit because it is almost completely silent. It is heavy and leaves lasting pain. The Curse of Dana is the one made from conveyor belt material, and it stinks to the high heavens, so we keep it in a sealed bag. If it comes out, the punishment is going to be severe.
One thing I would add to the whole implement discussion is that most everyone categorizes tools based on “sting” vs. “thud.” Of these, I definitely prefer thud. Sting can hurt really bad at the time, but it is immediately gone as soon as the spanking is over, making it seem pointless. But I would add a third category to this (most would include it with sting), and that is “burn.” Some implements can leave long lasting burn but still with minimal bruising. To me this is where rubber tools excel, unless they are so heavy that they just turn into a club. Also, the leather strap does pretty well in building a long-lasting burn, as do Lexan paddles. To me, the ideal punishment spanking would leave you feeling just spanked and on fire for hours, but that is hard to achieve, unless we “cheat” some and use nettles or capsaicin cream.
-ZM
"Anyway, it was delayed and I was sure it was going to arrive after I left, and my mom is not one to leave a package unopened, since to her the concept of privacy is completely alien."
DeleteToo funny!
I really need to do something with our surplus tools. We went through a major purging effort this week, cleaning out our closet, some dressers, etc. I was surprised at how many paddles I had laying around, and I haven't even explored some of the other places I've stored tools. It's embarrassing to me now how much I've spent on exotic wood paddles over the years, and we'll likely never use many of them again. I think about auctioning them off on eBay, but that obviously creates some confidentiality/privacy issues.
ZM Wrote: “Rubber tools – She uses the devil’s braid quite a bit because it is almost completely silent. It is heavy and leaves lasting pain.”
DeleteThis is sort of left over from last week, but a question: Rubber punishment instruments including those you mention seem to have a nasty reputation. My wife is curious about them, especially the “devils’ braid”. I am conflicted about them -and so far, she says it’s up to me whether we acquire one or not.
Actually, I think I am plain intimated by them. I think she believes it might be a nuclear option less complicated and fraught with resistance from me than the “nuclear option “she has now. What is your take on them, particularly the devils braid? Does it belong in every well stocked arsenal – or to be avoided at any cost?
Thanks
Alan
I had never heard of a devil's braid before ZM's post. It now has me curious, even though I made the conscious decision to throw all our rubber implements away a couple of years ago.
DeleteRegarding other rubber tools, it sounds like ZM's experience may be at least somewhat different from mine. I don't know whether to characterize it as a thud, sting or burn. It's definitely different from a typical leather strap. The pain was far, far, more intense than a leather strap of similar size. As I've said before, it was just too much. The other big problem we experienced was regardless of the width of the blade of the strap, it was prone to cutting skin. The narrower straps weren't quite as painful and the bigger heavier straps, but they were *extremely* prone to cutting skin. The heavier ones did it too, though not quite as much.
We have a tool almost identical to the "Devil's Braid." Ours is made out of soft "Viton Rubber" rather than the "Silicone Rubber" that Cane-iac uses.
DeleteI would characterize its feeling as being between a "thud" of a paddle and the "burn" of a strap. Because you are making contact with a much smaller surface area (only the outer bends of the loops contact) it is VERY QUIET! It is quieter than a cane; about he same noise level as a Loopy Johnny. However, it doesn't impart the "sting" that a loopy does. Used hard enough, it can certainly penetrate and leave deep bruises (like a paddle or very heavy strap), but with barely any noise.
From my perspective, I believe my wife feels she has better control over where it lands, and how much energy she imparts to each stroke. Pain and damage is quite variable with strength of stroke. I would recommend it for any wive (evil grin)!
Posting from my phone here, so not logged in. In general, I agree about rubber straps. They are usually too extreme and very prone to damaging skin. The Curse of Dana strap we have has beveled edges, but still it is pretty hard on skin.
DeleteThe Devil’s braid is different than anything else. First off, it is all thud, more so than any other implement we have ever tried. It is also very quiet, even quieter than a cane I think. It is made out of braided round silicone, so it is not all that hard and has no edges at all, so skin damage/bleeding has not been an issue. It does leave some bruises and soreness. In the end, I don’t think it’s much like other rubber tools or any other implements for that matter.
-ZM
Like many others, it is more exciting and genuine if my life partner spanks me for something that is annoying to her, rather than for me committing some offense we agreed would result in a spanking. Because we don't live together, that doesn't happen often, and I would never deliberately provoke her. The example given recently about being spanked for leaving a coffee cup out is typical of what Iam referring to, so she isn't really angry, but more just annoyed. Still, it serves to remind me of who is in charge, which I always appreciate, and encourage her to do more of. She will lecture, which seems differs than a scolding. My most severe spankings have been for drinking over my limit, which is something we both agreed on. I requested she take it seriously, and she has.
ReplyDelete"Because we don't live together, that doesn't happen often . . ." Anne and I have always lived together since we got married, but there was a long-ish period in which I was splitting work between two different cities. Not being around consistently definitely had an impact on the DD aspects of our relationship, both because less bad behavior happened in her presence (it still happened a lot) and also because when we weren't seeing each other as much there were lots of other things to devote the time we did have together to. DD felt like something of a distraction in a life that was already too distracting.
Delete“Not being around consistently definitely had an impact on the DD aspects of our relationship”
DeleteJust a quick comment on this. Now, being able to compare a living together versus living apart disciplinary relationship: I am not sure at all that one can achieve real consistent DD unless continuously living together. Living apart, there are just too many ways for discipline and communication to break down. I learned a lot about myself and discipline and got a lot of spankings living apart. But I don’t think I really experienced true DD relationship until living together.
Alan
I have never lived apart from my wife, but rather the one thing that has limited our DD more than anything is having our kids living with us in a very small (by US standards at least) space. When we have one of our kids living here, we seldom find time alone, and on those rare occasions that we are alone, we really want to just spend quality time together, talk deeply, and so on, so DD just gets pushed to the side. I am kind of guessing it would be somewhat like this if you lived apart as well, so when you are together, DD is probably not the first priority.
Delete-ZM
ZM, I get how having kids around is somewhat similar to being apart where DD is concerned. Though, I agree with Alan too; there was something very distinct about being physically apart for stretches of time. With kids around, there were definitely times when deserved spankings didn't happen and it often felt like there was a "pause" in the concrete parts of the relationship. But, it didn't feel like it just stopped. It was always there in the background. When there were big periods of being physically apart, however, it seemed like we were constantly trying jumpstart something that had totally stopped or, worse, not even trying to get it started again. It sounds like Norton makes it work but I don't think we ever really could.
Delete"When there were big periods of being physically apart, however, it seemed like we were constantly trying jumpstart something that had totally stopped or, worse, not even trying to get it started again" - that totally makes sense. I am glad we have never had to live with this situation, since it sounds very difficult in every respect.
Delete-ZM
Being apart for a few days a week is not possible or desirable for most folks, but we have found that maintenance spankings serve as a reliable way to reconnect. She is "all business" and enjoys teasing me by reminding me I have a spanking coming up. Our kids have been gone for decades and both of us are retired, so neither of us have to negotiate around money or dealing with relatives. If we lived together, it would certainly be more stressful, and I would probably receive more DD.
DeleteHow about you? Do you prefer "all business," or are displays of anger and emotion something that helps establish your roles or helps you get into a compliant, obedient or contrite emotional state? Or, does it depend on the context? - For me, this all depends on context. As you said, if the level of emotion seems unwarranted, it can take away from the experience. However, on those occasions where my wife has been angry, I think that overall the whole thing feels more correct and real, and her emotion is more likely to elicit an emotional response from me as well. Unfortunately, this doesn’t happen often, probably since the majority of our spankings (when they do happen at all) are for more mundane things that don’t really bring out any emotion at all.
ReplyDeleteMy wife is very much “all business” when it comes to check-in spankings, and in fact she often will say “we have some business to take care of” or something like that. I kind of like the “all business” too, and I don’t like seeing my wife feeling angry or even worse, feeling hurt. Probably the ideal for me is most of the time “all business,” but with some real anger shown from time to time, which makes those times memorable.
When your wife does express anger or other strong emotions, does it change the spanking in terms of severity, duration, etc.? – Absolutely. If she is angry, hurt, or upset in any way, she spanks even harder than usual, and the spanking is much more likely to go on for a lot longer. Normally, she stops when she sees that my bottom is looking bad, but if she is angry, she is just as likely to continue on. Interestingly, my wife has become more sensitive to the sight of bruising over time, I think, so she usually stops sooner than she would have in the past. But then at times, she will be very matter of fact about it, like “it looks like you are starting to bleed a bit, so pull up your underwear so I don’t have to see it" as she continues spanking me.
In addition to displays of anger, are there other things your wife does to put you in that state of “full psychological impact” that ZM describes? – Not too much, but as I have recounted several times, the time that she punished me when her friend was here at the house was VERY intense. I don’t know if it is “full psychological impact” or not, since there is obviously much more that she could do that what she has done. However, I can remember in vivid detail the feelings I was having at that time, much more so than I remember the feelings of the spanking itself, so it definitely qualifies as psychological impact.
-ZM
"My wife is very much “all business” when it comes to check-in spankings, and in fact she often will say “we have some business to take care of” or something like that. I kind of like the “all business” too, and I don’t like seeing my wife feeling angry or even worse, feeling hurt."
DeleteThis is definitely how I feel most of the time, though I also believe the epiphany I described above illustrates that one reason I kind of "like" but "all business" approach is it is less ego threatening and doesn't push my emotional boundaries as much if at all.
I suppose this isn't something my wife and I had actually clarified until now, but we chatted about the points raised and it brought some interesting thoughts to light. We tended to prefer the "all business" approach until now for a couple of reasons:
ReplyDelete1) A few weeks ago, I talked in a post here about different types of marital dynamics that might use DD. Ours falls into the fourth one I gave (the husband as leader, with the wife providing accountability and her authority covering spanking only). Bringing the "psychology" into this too much might make it harder to keep things like that.
2) Spanking tends to precede lovemaking and we don't want a psychological "hangover" beyond the end of the spanking. She wants me to return to my "masculine energy" as soon as the pain has subsided. If that means I get more short-term main instead, so be it.
J
J,
DeleteI fall into the same category as you. My wife wants me to be the man and make the decisions in the family. She provides the support and says she doesn't want to make the decisions a man has to make some times. She is still trying to wrap her head around the whole DD process. It’s a bit frustrating at times. I do feel the need to be punished more but don’t want to ask for it either. I feel foolish at times being spanked like a naughty boy, but the dynamics work pretty well with us. When she does give me a good beating, I feel much closer to her. The slate is cleared and we have some harmony back in the relationship. I made a comment to her after the last strapping she gave me. I provided positive support to her and told her that was the kind of beating I needed. She was a bit squeamish as my bottom was clearly marked and swollen but I explained to her that the lesson was learned. She has picked up her pace with the scolding a bit more. I just need her now to punish me religiously more when mad and upset with my behavior. Afterwards, she also wants me to return to being the strong man she married.
T
"She was a bit squeamish as my bottom was clearly marked and swollen but I explained to her that the lesson was learned." Somehow this becomes an issue for my wife only if there is blood, and then even tiny droplets will bring things to a spot. As ZM has noted, I think sometimes there isn't even any broke skin. It's like the impact somehow drives tiny little dots of blood out of the skin.
DeleteHi J and T,
DeleteI agree that the more you are on the strictly DD side of the spectrum, strong emotions on her part and certainly any added humiliations seem less fitting. Taken to the furthest extreme (in terms of who is in charge of the DD), she would only be punishing you for things that you have asked her to punish you for, at times that you determine that you need to be punished, and in the way that you think you should be punished. In this case, she really would have no reason to have any real emotion in any of this, since she is just following your instructions. I am not saying that is the case for you, but rather it is the most husband-controlled DD I can come up with. At the opposite end of the spectrum would be the wife being in total control of everything in the marriage. In that case, any offense would be an affront to her authority, so she may feel she has much more reason to be angry, and she might choose to do things to increase the humiliation of spanking just to further cement your respective positions in the hierarchy.
Of course, all of this is complicated by life not fitting nicely on one spectrum, but rather consisting of a number overlapping spectrums for each area of life.
I think we struggle a lot on here with the terms of "dominant" or "submissive" or "alpha" or "beta" because these don't really mean all that much. I am realizing more and more in life that there are areas I am pretty strongly dominant, and others in which I am almost totally submissive. While my wife and I try to make decisions together, I end up making quite a few decisions in life. And yet, I am rather sexually submissive. Having said that, I can also be quite aggressive sexually.
I think a really interesting sort of poll-type thing would be to see where people fit on these different spectrums. I am sure the way I structured it would be non-ideal, but I am just kind of thinking as I type here.
For family structure:
In our finances...
I make most decisions.......we jointly make decisions.......she makes most decisions
In our family interactions (children, etc.)
I make most decisions.......we jointly make decisions.......she makes most decisions
Socially
I make most plans.........we both make plans depending......she makes the plans
Sexually
I usually initiate sex..............it just depends..........she usually initiates sex
With regard to DD
She punishes me for things I ask her to................Anytime, anywhere, for any reason
In terms of personality:
Work
I feel more comfortable giving orders...............I prefer to stay out of the hot seat
Confrontation
I kind of like hitting things head on............I avoid confrontation at all costs
Comfortable with opposite sex
It was easy for me to ask women out...........I was so careful I was often friend zoned
And so on, and so on. I am only realizing with time just how possible it is to be dominant in some areas and even submissive in others.
-ZM
I'm happy to publish that poll, or people can just respond here. It really is too bad that Blogger killed its polling widget several years ago.
DeleteI like your list because it's only partially focused on decision-making. The frequency of making decisions in a particular area may not be all that indicative of whether one partner is dominant, because it's not really who makes decisions more often but, rather, who wins when there is a dispute. Also, for us, a lot of the decision-making isn't something there's ever been any kind of formal allocation of, or even really a discussion about. We just got into certain patterns early on, based largely on relative interest and competence. And, some of the divisions are pretty granular. For instance, you could describe paying the bills, handling bank accounts and doing investments as all part of one "financial" bucket, yet in our relationship Anne has always paid the bills and managed our bank accounts, while I handle all the investments. On a more household level, she cooks and I load and unload the dishwasher. We never really talked about dividing things up that way. It just sort of happened.
I think power is shared in many modern marriages and each has domains in which they tend to be “dominant” But DD in both my relationships was oriented to the health and growth of the relationship and that is where I think of her disciplinary authority as being dominant and final. “The relationship” can become a bit abstract but we have pretty well understood expectations and boundaries as to what disciplinary authority with the relationship means to both of us. And in early days we had some disagreement about what was in that scope. For example, she is not going to tell me what to do about investments or ever punish me for something I did re investing even if she was opposed to it. That is mine and she doesn’t want authority there nor no either of us consider it a critical part of our relationship. The asterisk is that she can extend her decision making into areas we previously shared or I controlled. And that has happened a couple of times for fairly minor things. ( one was how I chose and stored household tools). But neither of us wants an FLR as discussed her but rather a DD which focuses on our relationship. Looking on a “power sharing” DD from outside would probably be disorienting but from within our marriage it works just fine
DeleteAlan
Thanks, Alan. I guess it could be disorienting, but maybe only for those who are either newbies to DD or hyper-anal. If you have to spell our every little aspect of how power is split in a marriage, well, I guess all I can say it's not a relationship I'd probably want to be a part of. If the power exchange has to be so particularly defined and put in little boxes, it would make me wonder whether one party or both have some trust or control issues that perhaps need to be dealt with.
DeleteBad_boy_G_punished_by_Z, answers to your questions below:
DeleteFor family structure:
In our finances...
I make most decisions.......we jointly make decisions.......she makes most decisions
I make most decisions, though she has responsibility for managing the household budget, particularly when duty calls me away for a while.
In our family interactions (children, etc.)
I make most decisions.......we jointly make decisions.......she makes most decisions
I make most decisions, though she looks after day-to-day ones when I am not around.
Socially
I make most plans.........we both make plans depending......she makes the plans
We both make plans depending on the situation. If I am working long hours, I will often delegate this to her. If I particularly want something, we tend to go with it, but she tends to organise our social life (if that is what you mean).
Sexually
I usually initiate sex..............it just depends..........she usually initiates sex
I always initiate sex.
With regard to DD
She punishes me for things I ask her to................Anytime, anywhere, for any reason
Not anytime or anywhere (as some sort of order is needed), but any reason and any length, intensity etc.
In terms of personality:
Work
I feel more comfortable giving orders...............I prefer to stay out of the hot seat
I feel more comfortable giving orders.
Confrontation
I kind of like hitting things head on............I avoid confrontation at all costs
I kind of like hitting things head on.
Comfortable with opposite sex
It was easy for me to ask women out...........I was so careful I was often friend zoned
It was easy for me to ask women out.
Dan, agreed on the trust and control issues. I suppose this is another reason why my wife and I don't feel the need to clarify all that many things.
J
Hi Dan,
Delete"The frequency of making decisions in a particular area may not be all that indicative of whether one partner is dominant, because it's not really who makes decisions more often but, rather, who wins when there is a dispute." - absolutely true. As you pointed out some weeks back, it is not necessarily even who is better at something - though it often is - but rather who cares more about it.
"Also, for us, a lot of the decision-making isn't something there's ever been any kind of formal allocation of, or even really a discussion about. We just got into certain patterns early on, based largely on relative interest and competence." - This is true for my wife and I as well. Honestly, I think that trying too hard to divide responsibilities fairly, especially when you have younger children, is mostly a fool's game anyway, since there is always too much to do. So each one needs to do all they are able to even hope to climb on top.
"And, some of the divisions are pretty granular. For instance, you could describe paying the bills, handling bank accounts and doing investments as all part of one 'financial' bucket, yet in our relationship Anne has always paid the bills and managed our bank accounts, while I handle all the investments." - totally makes sense.
And Alan, I agree totally about power sharing being a common trait in all modern relationships, and that sometimes the lines of power sharing in a DD relationship could appear a bit strangely drawn, especially to someone unfamiliar with DD looking into the relationship.
I also liked your point that she can - but seldom does - extend her effective domain.
One thing that both of you highlighted was the power sharing and/or division of responsibilities in the relationship, which is more the first questions. I am really hoping we can come up with a better set of questions to determine how dominant or submissive we are in our personality and in other spheres of life. I really thought I was more alpha until I started thinking more about it. I have realized that I might just be more of a beta who happens to be often smart enough and always stubborn, so I might have always ended up leading, even though I may not be all that much of a natural leader?
And J, thank you for answering all the questions!
-ZM
"I really thought I was more alpha until I started thinking more about it. I have realized that I might just be more of a beta who happens to be often smart enough and always stubborn, so I might have always ended up leading, even though I may not be all that much of a natural leader?"
DeleteHonestly, that does apply a bit in my case, too. There have definitely been times when I didn't want to take the lead on something, formally or informally, yet it just kind of happened because I was smart and willing to step up if no one else was going to do it. It's kind of an ongoing internal war. Part of me likes just hanging out and not being responsible for anything, yet another part gets very frustrated when things are being done stupidly or not done at all, so I end up stepping up. I guess the bottom line is I don't really like being the leader but I also don't like anyone else trying to lead me.
Dan wrote: “ I really thought I was more alpha until I started thinking more about it….”
DeleteI do think that Alpha and Beta are useful terms to describe characteristic approaches to life. But they do get complicated in the context of female led DD. Most males in a consensual DD relationship are alpha only to the extent their wife of S.O. wants and allows it. Many women I believe, even those in a female led DD relationship do want and expect alpha behavior much of the time. But not during discipline including thinks like scolding, or even threats.
Then she wants obedience and acceptance of her authority. And alpha behavior is not wanted or appreciated. There is a schizoid vibe to this although every alpha male in a DD learns how to handle it. But in the words of a favorite philosopher whose name I have forgotten. “She doesn’t want alpha behavior until she does” And she definitely doesn’t want it during discipline
Alan
I sometimes hesitate to use "beta" because it's become an insult, especially among the Maga crowd. I also kind of prefer "Type-A" to "Alpha," though I'm also not sure whether most see them as interchangeable or whether Type-A is more about being intense and goal-driven, while Alpha is more about being top in a hierarchy. I tend to see them as more or less the same, though others may disagree.
DeleteHad you asked me 15 years ago when we started DD, I would probably have said that I am Alpha or Type-A virtually all the time, and that sanding off the Alpha excesses is the main reason for our DD. I still think that is mostly true, though overtime I've come to understand and accept that I do have a sexually submissive side that does get off on being dominated. But, that side just doesn't extend very far beyond the bedroom.
"I guess the bottom line is I don't really like being the leader but I also don't like anyone else trying to lead me." - Exactly this! Couldn't have written it better myself.
DeleteI too view beta as pretty much an insult (at least now), though I am not sure how much of one it should be, since it seems pretty hard wired in at least some. In common usage, I expect that "type-A" usually means about the same thing as "alpha," whether this is correct or not.
What really got me thinking about this whole thing was J's reference to "masculine energy" and T's mention that his wife wanted him to quickly return to being "the strong man she married" after she disciplines him.
Alan said "Many women I believe, even those in a female led DD relationship do want and expect alpha behavior much of the time." I generally agree with this, though I am not sure exactly what it is they expect, probably because it varies so much from one to another. Certainly toxic masculinity has gotten a lot of press over the past several years, and I am pretty sure that is not what most women want. But what they DO want is far from universal.
So, I was trying to come up with some way that would capture how someone actually is in different spheres of life, not necessarily based on roles or responsibilities, but rather how they act and the aura they project. This is very complicated, because so much is situational. For example, I am very confident in my technical skills (or most anything else that is related to thinking), to the point that I probably come off as arrogant sometimes. I don't necessarily shy away from physical danger or risk, because I do things like motocross - which is very extreme - yet I am somewhat averse to violence and people injuring others. I avoid conflict and find it hard to be assertive in any confrontational situation, yet I am very confident in my physical strength and toughness. I am extremely comfortable and probably loud to the point of being obnoxious when I am around those who know me, yet I hate being in a social situation where I am surrounded by strangers. And, I always struggled at relationships. It wasn't that I couldn't find or attract girls, but I just overthought and overthought and overthought everything, and always found it extremely difficult to ask girls out or to "make a move" even when we were starting to go out.
Someone looking at me in any of these different situations might see an entirely different person in each case, yet I see all of me, and it leaves me unsure of exactly what I am!
-ZM
You and I are so alike, it's scary sometimes. I could have written most of your second-to-last paragraph to describe myself. Even the motocross at one point in my life, though I've since switched riding styles. Also, the technical skills. My career was "tech adjacent" but I don't have the small skills for engineering.
DeleteI do suspect that "alpha" and "beta" are hard-wired and, moreover, evolutionarily programmed to occur in a ration of about 1:10 or 2:10. This thought isn't original with me, but I don't recall where I read it. As I recall, the gist of the theory was that humans are, like wolves and apes, pack animals. If a pack has two leaders, it's kind of a recipe for disaster, because inevitably two leaders are going to lead in different directions, splitting the pack or causing a huge problem in an emergency when speed and coordination are key. A situation in which a large number of potential leaders fight it out for the top spot isn't ideal either, causing unnecessary injury and death and sapping the strength of the pack. Therefore, it's a genetic advantage to have a bunch of betas and only a small number of potential leaders.
I agree that most women want alphas or men with "masculine energy," but I wonder whether they start that way but may end up somewhere else. I've never asked Anne expressly, but I think as she got more and more comfortable with DD she got more comfortable with her own power and authority and, from there, became more comfortable being assertive and in control.
My wife has spanked in anger several times usually because I goaded her into it. She does not like the way it makes her feel. I don't understand it. We have had discussions about how she should punish me when she is frustrated with me but apparently there is a level of anger that she hates seeing in herself. I have crossed that line a few times and the blistering I got started out severely but quickly descended. I was sent to the bedroom I could her her sobbing. The guilt we both feel is not good. That being said it keeps us both from wanting that line to be crossed. She has learned that nipping it in the bud is the best way to keep it from happening again. I am spanked more frequently for the behavior that she hates so her anger level does not get there
ReplyDeleteWard
It's a good point that it's often not a good thing to let things build up.
DeleteMy wife was irritated and business-like at the same time. She would be obviously peeved when she told me to take down my pants. But then when she started the spanking, she did it in a very business-like manner. Then she would put down the implement and use her hand and scold me. The scolding was always in an irritated tone. When she got done scolding, she would pick up her implement or another one and start spanking again in a business-like manner, with a no nonsense you're going to get it no matter what attitude.
ReplyDeleteKOJ
Truth be told I think the spanking is much more effective when she is scolding me whilest over her knee with the paddle being applied. In general I might not get as many spankings if she scolded and threatened more.
DeleteWard
That's an interesting mix of demeanors.
DeleteI obviously don't know you two, but I wonder if the switch to business-like is due to a fear of spanking incorrectly or just general strength in verbal areas more than physical.
DeleteLike several others , Dev won’t spank me when she’s really upset. She needs to calm down a little first. This just adds to the anticipation. The waiting is the hardest part ( sometimes). When it’s finally given , she’s still angry. The spanking is harder and longer than usual. When it’s over the air is cleared and all forgiven. Other spankings are given as needed and aren’t too bad. The true discipline ones are difficult. JR
ReplyDeleteAnticipation can be tough under the best of circumstances. I'm sure it's far worse when you know she's really mad.
DeleteSince I prompted the topic I should weigh in.
ReplyDeleteFirst, if it has been several months since I have been spanked, Ann tends to be more business like, spanking because I broke our agreement by some behavior.
But if it’s like lately when I’ve repeatedly forgotten to pick up after myself, then she’s definitely angry and let down, both things that make me feel horrible and small.
These spankings, which for repeated offenses mean two spankings, are where she shows emotion !! These are when she is motivated enough to pull down my underwear herself. And the spankings themselves show emotion in the strength of the spanks. But I wouldn’t have it any other way !! As I’ve said before, when we embrace afterwards and I thank her and apologize, we are so close, so intimate. It’s intense intimacy !!
When my wife spanks me, annoyed is a better description than angry. Frustrated might fit too. From her perspective, I shouldn't be surprised when she feels the need to discipline, as there is always plenty of forewarning.
ReplyDeleteI can't recall any time when Beth has yelled at me. It just isn't in her demeanor. Instead, she provides the most thorough lecture you could imagine. These occur before, during, and after the spanking and leave me feeling thoroughly chastened.
My most recent spanking occurred on Sunday. Beth's three sisters had been with us for the weekend. It's an annual event where the four of them begin the Christmas shopping season and enjoy some food and wine. Before their arrival, Beth went to great lengths to warn me to avoid caustic political comments. That proved easier said than done so soon after the elections. It turned especially ugly when I got into it with her youngest sister about student loan forgiveness. My wife was shooting me some looks as I became increasingly outspoken.
Having previously warned me, Beth wasted no time bringing out the hairbrush as soon as the last sister left. I was scolded for not listening to her instructions and for spoiling the mood at her family event. And she let me know that I would be spanked especially hard for hurting her little sister's feelings.
As always, Beth retained her composure, but she lived up to promise and gave me an especially long hard punishment. Clearly I had embarrassed her by my conduct (and probably by some of my opinions) and my bottom paid the price. Even though my sisters-in-law may not have the full picture, they must have understood that it wasn't going to be a pleasant rest of the day for me.
I don't think I've ever been spanked for voicing strong political opinions, probably because I'm on the same page with most of my family on political issues. My mother-in-law is an exception but (a) I don't talk to her about politics; and (b) my wife hates her mother's politics. I could see this changing in the future, however, as one of our kids will be getting married relatively soon and our future in-laws seem to be on the other side politically. Though, not extremely so. I am, however, trying to condition myself not bring up politics around them, which is hard for me because I'm basically a political junkie.
DeleteBesides being the only male present that weekend, I was also the only conservative (although I am far from being a Trumpster). I could only hold my opinions back for so long.
DeleteBeth's parents are as liberal as can be and it is reflected in how they raised their daughters!
My views have evolved over time. I began political life as a Reagan Republican, but I got thoroughly sick of the pandering to the religious right, among other problems. I could never go back to that party as it currently stands, but that doesn't make me a liberal. I'm basically part of the massive middle that's too conservative for the Democrats on things like defense, balanced budgets, and political correctness, but way too liberal for the Republicans on things like religion, drug policy, and civil rights. I don't really do labels, but I'm basically a small L libertarian but with a social conscience.
DeleteI think your first mistake was hanging out in an all female crowd and participating in the conversation. I tend to just retreat to my home office with my two male dogs.
As an observer type (journalist), I loved hanging out in an all-female crowd, making myself as nondescript as possible so as not to be kicked out. It gave me some insight into the incredibly complicated (convoluted?) female mind.
DeleteAs far as decision-making, we made decisions together, except when we didn't -- and she decided when my input was not needed. It was never big stuff, but stuff like whether we were going to a party. "You'd always say no, so you don't get to decide," she would say. "And if I see one iota of moping about it I will adjust your attitude double-quick." A'partying we would go!
KOJ
Dan wrote: “I don't think I've ever been spanked for voicing strong political opinions, probably because I'm on the same page with most of my family on political issues”
DeleteNor have I. But I have been spanked several times for disobeying her explicit instructions to avoid baiting a couple of her relatives or overreacting to them at holiday gatherings. She wouldn’t spank me for expressing a private view even if she strongly disagreed unless I was being rude or patronizing toward her. But family gatherings during the holidays are a powder keg. These and my behavior during several of them (according to her) led us to our first serious preventive spankings, a practice she still uses but not often. I expect her problem relatives will be a little quieter this year and I would love to push them a bit. But she has convinced me that is a bad idea
Alan
KOJ: You and I often seem so alike. I look for pretty much any excuse to avoid parties. Though, it's going to feel odd this year, the first that both Anne and I are retired and, thus, neither of us has an office party to go to. I feel a little bummed about it, though I know if we had one scheduled I'd be looking for ways to get out of it.
DeleteAlan, I don't know how I got so lucky on the politics-and-family front, but I kind of did. If I were to give my parents' bios including age, where they were raised, education level, past employment, etc., they would seem to be the epitome of Trump voters. Yet, they both absolutely hate him. My siblings are also pretty liberal despite living in very conservative cities. On my wife's side, I see her mother at holidays and she never raises politics, and my wife hates her siblings (who are conservative but in that very uninformed way that comes from binge watching Fox), so I rarely have to see them at all.
DeleteIt was the same at work. Almost all my colleagues were Democrats, with only a few exceptions.
So, other than some more distant relatives who I get into it with on Facebook every once in awhile, I rarely even have the opportunity to stir the political pot when socializing.
I'd like to know how many of us would pretend to support Trump at a party if it was the only way to earn a spanking!
Delete"I have been spanked several times for disobeying her explicit instructions to avoid baiting a couple of her relatives or overreacting to them at holiday gatherings."
ReplyDeleteAlan, that was my situation exactly, and it didn't help that my altercation was with her youngest sister. Beth is very protective of her.
Kevin writes: “Alan, that was my situation exactly …”
DeleteI can empathize with you -- and like Dan ( I think), the far left is as obnoxious to me as the far right ( although at the present historical moment, the far left is more annoying than dangerous) But my wife was right and more than fair with me.
We see these relatives twice a year at most and creating stress at a rare family gathering is not acceptable behavior from me. Your situation does seem similar except it happened at home apparently. But you wife does seem to have given you enough warning for you to consider the consequences.
This is a situation where a preventive spanking might work, especially since the situation presents itself every year at this time. The real value of preventative spanking is that the bad behavior doesn’t occur, so both of you are saved the anger or recriminations that follow (at least for us) that kind of family situation
Alan
Alan, yes, we're pretty much on the same page. I do see the far left as dangerous in one respect. They make far right candidates acceptable to those who are just sick and tired of political correctness, wokeness, etc. There are states like Texas where a Democrat could win, but it ain't going to be a Beto O'Rourke. In the end, a lot of people pay a big price when a Ron Johnson wins over a Mandela Barnes or a Greg Abbott beats a Beto.
DeleteOne thing I was going to add about your situation Alan is that I get how hard it is not to bait people once you know they're on the other side politically. I love politics and I enjoy arguing about it. It makes me nuts to hold my tongue when I know someone is a a right-winger. But, the other big problem is most Trumpers can't resist letting you know their views, particularly about the current administration. So, even if I resist the temptation to start a fight, if the peace is to be maintained it seems to require letting someone with abhorrent views air those views with no response.
Dan,
ReplyDeleteDan,
You make a good point about the left, particularly as a foil for the right. But honestly, I think the left loonies could disappear overnight and the wing-nuts would continue to find issues to populate there endless grievances. Re engaging Trumpers, its rarely a conversation worth having as almost all of it is fact free and grounded in conspiracy theories and profound ignorance of how government works.
Once in a while ,one encounters an intelligent person who supports Trump and it is interesting ( for a while) to watch how they confabulate facts, ignore actual history and generally use their gifts to argue with selective facts and often distorted logi,that Trump was right after all.
Strict Julie, in all her many manifestations is an example of what I am describing. Setting aside the self-interested acolytes in effect paid to toe Trumps line, there are very few Trumpers left that one might call intelligent. But there are a few ,and watching their verbal gymnastics can be entertaining, albeit probably more revealing of their personal psychology.
Alan
It's true that she seems intelligent, though a lot of her schtick is just regurgitated Tucker Carlson schtick. If he starts posting how much he likes Victor Orban and Hungary, she becomes an Orban fan girl. Whatever Tucker says about Putin and Russia, she parrots. If Tucker starts pushing the point that some handful of Democrats objected in prior presidential elections, she starts pushing that point hard. She rarely takes on the substance of any smart, informed commenters on her blog and, instead, quickly resorts to name calling. Honestly, I'm not sure whether she has any political thoughts of her own, versus just watching Carlson and conflating his latest points into a blog post.
DeleteDan,
DeleteThanks. I can't watch Fox , have tried and its a metaphysical impossibility for me . Yes many other leading media, even the NYT carry bias, but they are more is nuanced and mixed with hard news. But Fox doesn't even try to be objective. It is unwatchable. And so I didn't realize Julie had become a parrot for Carlson. I only read her once or twice every couple of months, so not an astute observer. She does seem to be running out of air, if so, ironic that she deflates at the same time that the South Florida buffoon she seems to worship seems to be wrapping it up
Alan
I do watch Fox News Sunday, but not as much since Chris Wallace left.
DeleteI pretty much gave up on Julie's blog, though I made the mistake of dropping in a few weeks ago after Donn and Caged Lion noted they had commented there.
Interestingly, one of our former commenters became convinced for a while the Julie isn't actually a woman and is, instead, a man who has successfully pulled off what some of our erstwhile "female" commenters like "Belle" in her various iterations have tried to do here. I don't recall what led him to that conclusion, but it was an interesting one to think about.
“one of our former commenters became convinced for a while the Julie isn't actually a woman and is, instead, a man who has successfully pulled off what some of our erstwhile "female" commenters like "Belle" in her various iterations have tried to do here.”
DeleteThere is reason to suppose that speculation ( Julie) is not beyond the possible.
Related it would be worthwhile for you to disclose the other “Belle’s “who have turned up over the years. Their postings after all have been muted by their imposture and the readers of the blog would probably like to know who they were. Right now, I believe at least two or three of our most voluble posters were probably authentic, so if I am wrong- behold, a learning opportunity
Alan
There was a likely incarnation called Trent who came along shortly after Belle outed herself. Someone else speculated that "she" was also "Liz" and "Arthur." There's another incarnation that I'm probably 80% sure about but I don't want to reveal it for now. Over the years, it's happened several times that I've had a pretty strong feeling that a male was faking being a female, or that someone I'd kicked out started coming back in a new iteration. My radar isn't perfect, however, so I often just let it go for a while, figuring if I am right it will give them enough rope to hang themselves.
DeleteMy own BS meter is usually very reliable but I confess Belle fooled me despite the fact that the demographics were all wrong.And like you I suspect s/he has/had made the rounds before.
DeleteHowever, I think “Danielle” was authentic, probably “Helen” and maybe “Tina”. And there are others, but these mentioned were probably the most prolific, Once I probably would have included Anna and Peter. But you mentioned at some point there was a problem there and they did disappear quite suddenly. (Just at a point where Peter was describing one of my fantasies)
Who else fooled me?
Alan
I am absolutely confident Danielle was authentic. I'm equally confident Helen wasn't. I'm pretty sure Tina was, as well as some of my own favorites like Marisa and Holly.
DeleteThen, of course, there was "Jack" in his half-dozen iterations.
Anna and Peter were a very disappointing experience. Had you asked me early on, I would have been 100% confident that they were legit, but then Peter accidentally posted as someone else was supposedly a different commenter on here. And, there were other signs. They kind of put an end to my naiveté, as I really liked and gravitated to "them."
Though, FWIW, I'm very sure you're legit. :-)
Though I have never engaged in it, I can see the appeal of expressing my fetish through the eyes of a fictional female. I enjoy the female perspective on DD, and have plenty of my own ideas about what would make an ideal disciplinarian. So maybe it's my own bias, but I am suspicious of things that sound too good to be true. When an alleged female poster is too eager to provide information about the fetishistic elements males tend to love, and goes on and on about them in detail, I tend to think it's a male wrapped in female clothing. My experience is that even authentic female disciplinarians are rarely as talkative about what they do as the males wishing to be under their authority.
DeleteI agree, Brett. I also wonder whether, if there might be fewer males pretending to be females if there were more female disciplinarians who were blogging or commenting. I do think there is an interest in the lifestyle expressed from the female side, but there is a real dearth of that in terms of number of blogs and participants here. Maybe if the interest was being satisfied with content from real women, there wouldn't be as many men faking it.
DeleteI think you're right, however, that for whatever reason authentic female disciplinarians just aren't that interested in discussing it. A good friend of mine who is a female "top" in an FLR ran a blog about it for awhile, but it lasted only about a year. It's still up but she hasn't updated it in years. There isn't much out there, and the few blogs or websites written from the female perspective tend to be way more about either Femdom or chastity, or a combination of both, than DD.
Dan wrote: “Though, FWIW, I'm very sure you're legit. :-)”
DeleteActually I am a slim stunning redhead in her early 30’s , real name Allyn, who is pursuing a degree in creative writing and this has been my assignment – impersonating a pompous middle aged male whose wife spanks him ,t not as often as he deserves but sometimes more often than he wants.
Alan/Allyn
You be Allyn, and I'll be Daniella!
DeleteDeal!
DeleteMy wife was adamant that I not get into political discussions at family gatherings. She told me to "be the gentleman" and walk away if I had to. I suggested a spanking before one gathering but she just laughed and said it was ridiculous to punish me for something I did not do yet. But she had no problem taking me by the arm and removing me from a political discussion, making some lame excuse, and then threatening me with a paddling. After the semi-public incident at the cocktail party occurred, my behavior at family gatherings improved dramatically because I realized she was not making
ReplyDeleteIdle threats. I did NOT want to be spanked within earshot of family members!
KOJ
For a long time, I felt the same as your wife about "preventative" spankings, but I'm now a believer. I do think they wore to prevent bad behavior in situations where it is very likely to occur. Though, Anne hasn't used them often, it would probably be a good idea if she did.
DeleteGetting spanked when my husband is irritated with me is I think the key to our developing DD. Recently I was acting kind of saucy and he called me a brat, and I could tell in his voice that he was truly irritated. He was seated in his favorite chair and I threw myself across his lap and said, "Punish me!" And he did, giving me about 10 stinging smacks on my bottom. Real discipline! Then he told me to get completely naked and I rushed to get my clothes off, thinking he was going to spank me in the nude. Instead he made love to me. I couldn't say I was too disappointed! And I had received a bit of DD when he was upset with me!
ReplyDeleteCynthia Ellen
Great development.
DeleteCE: That's fantastic. So glad you have made this progress!
DeleteLike every other person who I've ever heard comment, I have a love/hate relationship when it comes to the actual application of CP. I "hate" the pain, but love witnessing and feeling my spouse's authority, and my own loss of control to her.
One important thing that I promised my wife, when we were starting DD, was that I would never intentionally misbehave, goad (female: "brat") or otherwise intentionally try to instigate DD punishments; told her that DD and CP should be her "totally free to make decisions." I also told her that I could not be absolutely certain that deeper parts of my psyche might not, subconsciously, effect my behavior -- try to "trigger" my wife. We discussed this, and mutually ("wife") decided she would always strive to ensure that DD and CP were ALWAYS severe enough to help ensure any such "subconscious" behavior was extinguished. Decided that there should never be any manipulation of her or the relationship -- basic RESPECT for her.
Are there elements of your behavior that you want to change? Are there elements of your behavior that you husband wants to change. Maybe now would be a good time to meet with your husband and formally ask him to help you to make these changes. That as you are sincerely, personally, working hard to make these changes, that you want your husband to monitor and "assist" your internal work; add "motivation" and "consequences" to your personal work.
Many couples start with those two basic parts to there DD relationship: No manipulation; A short list of initial behaviors that one, the other, or both partners sincerely want to change.
Best of luck, and don't be such a stranger for soooooo long.
I didn't have anything to say on implements last werk because I am still trying to get him to use his hand more often! But I do check the topic and I like reading what you guys have to say.
DeleteCynthia Ellen
This is a first. I cook on the weekends. Last night I baked potatoes in a new way. Ann just told me that if I I did it again, without foil, I’d get a spanking !! Absolutely a first for her /us!!
ReplyDeleteI've never quite understood the theory behind baking potatoes in foil. My mom always did it that way, but I've always just thrown them in the oven without it
DeleteThe thinking may be that it keeps the steam in, thus resulting in a softer baked potato. It may well do that, but it also keeps much of the heat out, so they take forever to bake that way! The way I bake them is I thoroughly wash them, pat them dry, and then I coat them with a thin layer of oil and cover them with salt before stabbing them with a fork a few times and baking them. That way, the skins are tasty if anyone chooses to eat them, the oil helps retain some of the moisture without blocking any heat conduction, and at least some of the salt works its way in.
Delete-ZM
Yep, that's exactly how I think it should be done. It's probably true that people who use foil often don't eat the skins.
DeleteFred (and Dan and ZM): I personally cannot imagine NOT eating the skins of baked potatoes, or not having those skins somewhat "crisp and chewy."
DeleteHowever, if giving up those skins forever was the result of my wife starting to strongly asserting her own opinion and backing it up with her DW authority, starting down that long but inevitable "for any reason" path, I WOULD GIVE UP THOSE SKINS FOREVER!
Fred: Congrats!
(It's starting to look like this might be a week of multiple relationship "breakthroughs!")
Thanks, I think !! Ann’s beef was that I oiled and salted the potatoes prior to baking them. Apparently the pan was difficult to clean. While I’m scared of forgetting and getting a spanking, I’m thrilled that Ann has promised this. It’s a first !!
ReplyDeleteI’d like advice on this. Ann and I have been talking about rules when I travel, as a a new role will require me to travel almost 50% the first three months. Without rules I’d become a sloth ! Thoughts, please !!
ReplyDeleteI pretty much wore myself into the ground with business travel, so any rules I would come up with be in the "do what I say, not what I do" category.
DeleteMy own wife is pretty "laid back" about rules when I'm away from home (and NOT visiting family), but she does have one:
DeleteUnless I am attending a prescheduled event, and that event's existence and time-frame can be verified through either the internet or some type or pre-trip publication, I AM REQUIRED TO BE "HOME" IN MY HOTEL ROOM BY 8:00PM EVERY NIGHT. (My wife periodically verifies my presence in my "home hotel room" by telephoning me through the hotel's switchboard.)
Depending on the devices you carry, an easy way for a wife to track her husband's location is the Find My app on iPhone. My wife covertly enabled mine a long ways back, and it took me a while to figure out how she seemed to always know where I was.
DeleteBut, it has its limitations. As I quickly figured out, it works well with respect to horizontal geography but not so great vertically. That was helpful, because there was a pub in my office building, which meant Anne could tell that I was in that building on any afternoon but couldn't tell whether I was in the pub at happy hour with the team or a dozen floors above it in our offices.
Out of interest, how did you end up citing Charles Spurgeon? He is more or less the last person I would have expected you to cite.
ReplyDeleteJ
Generally, when looking for quotes, I just Google for quotes that are broadly--sometimes very broadly--related to general theme of the topic. In this case, my general theme was anger and emotion. Unfortunately, the vast majority of popular quotes about anger and emotionality are warnings against them. That was one of the few I found that had both a certain lyrical quality and that suggested a positive value to anger and temper.
DeleteI did some traveling, and while I never cheated or even came close, my wife did set some "preventive" rules that she interrogated me about at bedtime:
ReplyDelete1. Maximum two alcoholic drinks at any event. (Could be two at lunch and two more at dinner.)
2. No alone time with a woman. No exceptions or excuses.
3. No porn on the hotel TV.
4. No flirting back. (She realized I would be flirted with.)
5. No hotel hot tubbing (spa).
5. This should go without saying, but no removing my wedding ring!
6. In my room by 11 p.m. unless I got advance permission.
7. Call her at 11 p.m. each night and answer all questions truthfully.
KOJ
Mine would have been a lot more vanilla and health related:
Delete1. No breakfast at McDonalds at the airport (I freaking love McGriddles but would indulge only when traveling)
2. No more than two glasses of wine on the plane ride home
3. No stopping off for "one drink" at the hotel bar after dinner
4. Gym shoes must actually be taken out of the suitcase and used at least once each trip
5. Call every night to ensure I'm in the room and not hanging out at the hotel bar
Womanizing wasn't ever the issue with me. It was my proclivity for drinking too much, eating poorly and not exercising.
I’m closer to Dan on this one. I’ve been hit on, but I’m so in love with my wife that I don’t figure it out until a couple of weeks later.
DeleteIt will probably be more about keeping my room neat, maybe exercise, how much alcohol. I’ll let you know when we decide.
That said, I’m due for spankings Monday, Wednesday, and Friday the week after Thanksgiving for twice forgetting to take my pills. Not the first time I’ve been spanked for this. I hope 🤞 I behave between now and then, because if not it will mean adding spankings the mornings of that week. I’ll be bruised on the trip, for sure !