Club Meeting 314 - Talking Your Way Out - Unsuccessfully

“You can't talk your way out of a problem you behaved your way into!” - Stephen R. Covey

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

It’s been an interesting few weeks on the Domestic Discipline and FLR front.  I wonder from time to time whether real progress is always incremental or, rather, comes in bursts.  Sometimes things change so slowly you can’t really detect it.  Then, you look back at where you were a year or so before, and things are surprisingly different.  I feel like that’s where Anne and I are where consistency is concerned.  A little over a year ago, I posted about consistency and my track record of success in talking my way out of spankings that I knew I deserved or, if not talking my way out of them directly, talking her into a delay, which often ended up meaning no spanking at all.  As I said at the time:

“ZM and Tomy have both talked about the role their Disciplinary Wives play or played in helping them perform better in their daily lives, by setting goals and being strict in holding them accountable.  I talk to my wife about doing that, but it's my own "But, Honey . . ." moments that get in the way of those efforts. And, unfortunately, so far she hasn't developed quite enough strictness to just put her foot down. So, we both bear some responsibility here.  She does need to get more comfortable with not only giving an order but with actually making it stick in the face of some moderate resistance or questioning.  But, I also need to get much better at simply doing what she tells me to do, without argument or undermining.”

The interesting development is, a year later and kind of out of the blue, she is sticking to her guns.  A couple of weeks ago, I related that I had a really stressful weekend, and I thought she might take mercy on me and let me avoid a spanking that I otherwise deserved.  Nope.  She gave me a very sound spanking that left me sore for several days.  It happened again this week, and it was a little unexpected.  We had gone out together with some of my work colleagues on Friday, and things got a little out of control. But, I was actually not even close to the worst behaved of the group.  And, when we got home I started to fall into my preferred pattern of staying up, having a nightcap and watching a movie or listening to music.  She told me very directly to go to bed, and I resented it and complained about it. But, unlike the incident a couple of months ago in which my resistance undermined her confidence, this time I actually complied.  I didn’t like it at all, but I did obey her.  I thought that my progress on the obedience front might have earned my way out of a spanking or at least resulted in a very light one. Nope.  Her position was that while I did obey, I did it reluctantly and with a bad attitude, and the obedience also did not make up for the other bad behavior that evening. 

What caused this change?  I really don’t know.  It does follow some communications we had about the lack of equivalence between my behavior and the consequences she imposes, in that my bad behavior is depressingly consistent, while the consequences are pretty sporadic.  But, we’ve had many talks in the past about consistency, yet none of them really seemed to stick.  This time seems to be different.

So, am I in Disciplined Husband heaven, now that I am getting some of the consistency I have been asking for?  Well, no and yes.  In the moment, I really, really, really hate getting spanked.  And, I really did think that my obedience should have earned me more kudos this week.  “Resentment” may be too strong a word, but I definitely do have some negative feelings about being kept in line.  But, this feels a lot like the way a teenager feels after a spanking or after getting grounded or losing some privilege.  And, that is exactly what I have been saying I want – and I still do want it.  

As I said a week ago, “This is what consistency looks like, and in typical Domestic Discipline fashion, part of me wants, needs and openly requests it, but then the part that really hates being spanked and remembers how badly it hurts resents being unable to get out of it.”  As it turns out consistency also results in another “benefit” I have been saying I want, namely discipline that feels imposed and non-consensual.  

As ZM said, “I agree totally about the power dynamic, both when we were kids when we hated the thought of being spanked, and now when we have done a 180 and want/need/crave imposed discipline. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that I almost need the "imposed" even more than the actual "discipline." But in other cases, I have talked her out of a spanking when I really knew that I deserved it. That is really unfair to her, because it makes it harder to be assertive like I am wanting, but then to be talked out of it when she tries. And of course, after the fact, the few times that this has happened over the several years, I have felt much more disappointed (both that it didn't happen and in myself for causing it to not happen) than the temporary relief I felt.”

The underlined portion of ZM’s comment really resonates with me.  While I hate it in the moment, I know in my heart that I really, really do need to be made to stay within the lines.  I hate boundaries, yet I know I need them, and they don't feel like real boundaries if I have to impose them on myself.  But, now that I am experiencing true consistency, I'm finding that the undermining and unfairness that ZM is concerned about may have a paradoxical aspect in which resistance actually augments the FLR aspect of the relationship. Now that she is being more consistent, I feel like trying to talk her out of it, but failing, actually augments her authority and verifies that she really is in charge.  Her strictness in the face of my resistance confirms her status as the Boss.  Something that once did undermine her authority now paradoxically enforces it.  I also think her imposing discipline in the face of some mild resistance from me results in a virtuous circle in which her confidence goes up each time she gives me a spanking when I really don’t want one and try to avoid or delay it.

I can’t say I have a tightly defined topic related to all this.  Instead, I’m interested in your reactions and experiences.  For the Wives, how do you deal with resistance?  Have you experienced a surge of pride or confidence by being faced with some resistance but overcoming it and sticking to your guns?  Does the resistance result in any extra or different punishment?  For the men, have there been times you have tried genuinely but unsuccessfully to get out of a spanking? How did you react to getting one despite your best efforts?

I hope you have a great week.

Club Meeting 313 - Restraints

A kite needs to be tied down in order to fly. I learned how important restrictions can sometimes be in order to experience freedom. - Damien Rice

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Another interesting week, including from a domestic discipline and FLR perspective.   Last week, I recounted some of the events that had made for a stressful weekend.  Anne knew it had been stressful, and by Sunday night I thought that perhaps she was feeling merciful.  Nope.  As I was getting ready to pack for a business trip, she told me I would be getting spanked in about 30 minutes.  And, she delivered a very sound spanking.  This is what consistency looks like, and in typical Domestic Discipline fashion, part of me wants, needs and openly requests it, but then the part that really hates being spanked and remembers how badly it hurts resents being unable to get out of it. 

I have, in fact, been asking her to step up the consistency, because my weeks keep feeling like the movie Groundhog Day – the details change but my mindset and self-indulgent behaviors keep me locked in the same old pattern of misbehavior.  I feel like if I really want to change, the boundaries have to be clear and the consequences certain.  She has been delivering that lately, and I feel like there are signs that it is getting through to me.  I behaved pretty well throughout the week, though yesterday went kind of sideways at days end.  But, she gave me a couple of orders that just a couple of weeks ago might have been disobeyed, but this time I complied even though I really didn’t like it.   

The real change in the power dynamic also has been playing out in my dreams lately, including one in which she was seeing another man.  I was angry about it, but in the dream when I confronted her, she was dismissive and made clear that she was going to do whatever she wanted.  Now, in real life I know she would never do that, but I think the dream was indicative of a mind wrestling with a shift in the power structure such that my views and wishes are subject to being discounted.  And, while it is always frustrating in the moment, it is undeniably erotic, too.

Last week’s topic responses also seemed to indicate a bit of an evolution for the blog.  In the past, any time the topic of “safewords” would come up, someone would insist that there simply must be a safeword.  We didn’t really see any of that this time.  I’m hoping that means that we’ve cleared out some of the BDSM crowd who aren’t really using spanking for discipline but, rather, as entertainment.  It was also interesting that some of couples did set up a safeword, but then never used it. 

Safewords are all about empowering the recipient to end a spanking on their terms.  This week, let’s talk about something that takes things in the opposite direction.  Have you ever been tied down or restrained during a spanking, so you could not get up or escape?

We experimented with this a few times. I thought it would add to the sense of the spanking being imposed regardless of my consent or lack thereof.  I can’t say it really achieved that, but I also don’t recall there being a time that I was tempted to try to get up.  I think being restrained could contribute to a sense of powerlessness, but probably only in combination with a spanking taken to the point that I felt an urgent urge to physically resist.

 

How about you?  Have you ever been tied down or restrained during a spanking?  If so, what does it add to the experience, if anything? If not, would you like to be?

Club Meeting 312 - Safewords

“Don’t let your mouth get you into something your ass can’t handle.” – Basketball Diaries

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

Interesting week.  Where to begin?  Maybe with something that has been in the back of my mind for the last few weeks, namely the sharp uptick in comments that read more like Femdom spanking porn fantasies than real-life domestic discipline stories. This seems to happen whenever we get an influx of new readers, many of whom apparently skipped the note on the masthead that says this is a place to “share their thoughts regarding Domestic Discipline and Female Led Relationships. No offense to our friends in the Femdom, BDSM and Master-slave communities, but that's not really what this blog is about.”  I probably need to change that to read “thoughts regarding real Domestic Discipine and Female Led Relationships.” I’m never sure what to do about these stories that are just a little too out there to be true.  Like, the sudden prevalence of claims to have been spanked in a public “family bathroom.”  Could it have happened? Sure.  Do, I think it did for all the men who claim they have been subject to it?  Nope.  Or, do I believe for a second the claim from a commenter a couple of weeks ago that the new prevalence of family bathrooms has resulted in some recognized uptick in public DD spankings? Not for a second.  On the other hand, there are stories that I absolutely believe even if they fall into common spanking fantasy genres like mother-in-law spankings and being spanked in public.  Some people’s DD relationships are obviously more open, out or adventurous than others.  Still, while I may not delete comments I strongly suspect are fantasy, I’m not going to feel obligated to respond to them either as I try to do with other comments.  And, if you are one of the offenders, please take it somewhere else.

Though, speaking of being “out” or “open,” I had a somewhat disturbing event happen this week that involved the prospect of being involuntarily “outed.”  I won’t go into details because they might be too self-revelatory, but suffice it to say it involved a possible computer hack that I was concerned might have exposed some of the stuff I keep around, like my collection of spanking porn and that someone might expose my Domestic Discipline interest and activities.  I went to a bit of a panic that turned out to be unmerited, but it did make me mentally and emotionally confront what I would do it something like that did become public.  What would I do?  How would I handle the situation?  Would it seem life-destroying, or oddly freeing?  Honestly, I think if it involved being outed to colleagues or in a work-related context, I’d just lie and claim the leaker had faked whatever they disclosed in some perverse plan to damage me.  Honestly, in this era of “deep fake” photographs and a President who gets away with lying about paying off porn stars to cover up extramarital affairs and suffers not the slightest consequence even when confronted with the payment checks, lying in the face of incontrovertible evidence seems like a plausible strategy.  Or, I could just own it.  Just say, “Yeah, I like my wife being in charge and taking me to task with her paddle and strap.  What the fuck do you care?”  But, what my little panic incident revealed is that while that might be an option in the future, right now I do not want to deal with the possible consequences.  I do think there could be pretty significant professional consequences, at least for the next few years until retirement.  Though, it did occur to me that such “outing” could be the signal from the universe I’ve been looking for about when it actually is time to get on that glide path into retirement or a career change.  My real trepidation though is around extended family finding out.  I think most of my friends would be fine with it, after a bit of shock.  Our kids would probably roll with it, assuming they don’t know or suspect it already.  But, I really wrestle with the mortification I’d experience over parents and older relatives knowing.  We talked about humiliation a couple of weeks ago, and this week’s event demonstrated to me that while part of me is attracted to being more “out” and to being humbled in certain contexts, there are still hard limits and the timing is not right.

Well, enough of that.  On to this week’s topic. It’s one we’ve done before, but not for at least a couple of years.  That topic is “safewords.”  Here is how an urban dictionary entry describes it: “In BDSM, begging to stop increases pleasure and reality. A safeword is used to actually mean "stop", since screams for stopping aren't sincere. The safeword is usually a normal word, like "pink", "banana", or "door" and is determined before starting play.”

 While safewords may seem like a pretty straightforward topic, it is one that has a lot of layers, including some that always cause controversy among the group.  “Consent,” "consensual non-consent," and true non-consent have been on my mind a lot lately.  I’ve always known that part of what initially attracted me to DD was the prospect of losing control to someone or, more accurately, having all control taken away from me.  When I discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, the stories that appealed to me the most were those in which the corporal punishment regiment was imposed by the wife, as opposed to initiated at the husband’s request. Similarly, stories where the spanking goes on way past the husband’s self-perceived limits were and are morbidly attractive. Being spanked when I really, truly do not want to be has always been part of the perverse appeal Domestic Discipline has for me.  Same with being taken way past the point of “comfort,” to where it really feels like a harsh punishment for bad behavior.

 

Safewords are not part of our relationship, and to me they seem inconsistent with my need for disciplinary spankings to be “real.”  With a safeword, I would remain in control, and that is the exact opposite of what I want.  Given that for us spanking is about things like discipline, punishment and payback, giving me the ability to shorten the duration of a spanking or to cause her to back off on the intensity by simply uttering an agreed-upon phrase seems inconsistent with that.  For us, the whole point of DD is putting my butt's fate in her hands, letting her decide when enough is enough, and making sure that some punishments are way more than I want to repeat.  And, yes, while I theoretically could struggle and get up if the spanking was just too much, I never have and, if I did, I would very much want her to solve that in some concrete way like using restraints to hold me in place.  Thus, for us, a safeword is something that seems to make perfect sense in the BDSM and “scening,” context, but is more problematic in the context of our relationship, at least to the extent it can be used to call an end to a spanking just because it is hurting too much, i.e. where there is no medical issue, injury, etc. that demands a stop or some kind of adjustment.

 

Now, that last point is important. I do think there has to be a way to pause or stop a spanking if something is really wrong, like where the recipient is feeling something that just isn’t within the norm of a punishment spanking and indicates a prospect of real injury.  But, we have been married for a quarter century and doing Domestic Discipline for over a decade, so if I felt something was really wrong, I’d just say so.  There is no doubt in my mind that she would pause and, if something was wrong, stop the spanking.  And, I also don’t tend to verbalize a lot during spankings, at least not with words.  I do plenty of grunting, groaning and yelping, but I don’t do things like begging her to stop, which obviously could cause confusion about whether he is just voicing the reality of a hard spanking or, rather, really in distress in a “bad” way. 

 

What do you think?  Yes or no on safe words?  Are there some situations (medical emergency, real injury, etc.) where it is appropriate but others (the spanking just hurts a lot) where it is just trying to avoid the punishment itself and should not be allowed?  If you do use one, care to share what it is?

Have a great week.

Club Meeting 311 - Corner Time

“If pain must come, may it come quickly. If [s]he has to make a choice, may [s]he make it now.”  - Paulo Coelho

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

I hope you had a great week.  I came into the week exhausted and am now even more so.  Business travel is just draining.  Unfortunately, none of that time in airports and on airplanes yielded inspiration for new blog topics.  So, I throw in the towel and will once again let someone else do my thinking for me.  A couple of weeks ago “a husband who knows” suggested “corner time” as a topic and suggested some sub-topics.  So, let’s do that one.

Do you use corner time as part of your Domestic Discipline routine?  If so, to what purpose?  Is it always done in conjunction with a spanking, or do you ever use it as a stand-alone (no pun intended) form of punishment?  Do you use it to increase the sense of anticipation and dread of the ordeal about to come?

Or, is it an interlude between sessions?

Or, does it typically come after the spanking?  Does she use it as an opportunity to scold or lecture? 

 

How long do your typically leave him in the corner, and what do you do while you keep him waiting? (This particular piece of artwork comes from our friend KD Pierre.)

 

Has she ever taken a phone call while you were standing naked in the corner? If so, how did that make you feel?

If corner time is not part of your domestic discipline routine, is it something you’d like to explore? Why?  What is the appeal, or what is it that you hope it would achieve?

 

For the wives, does corner time serve any special purpose for you?  What is it you hope that it achieves?  Does making him spend time in the corner enforce your feelings of empowerment or dominance?

You can tell this topic isn’t one that captures my interest, as demonstrated by the fact that the last time I devoted a topic to it was back in 2014.  At that time, I noted that we didn’t use corner time.  That changed a little in the last year, partly in response to a comment from one of our Disciplinary Wives.  She noted that she always tries to ensure that each offense gets its own separate spanking session.  Typically, she would break the spanking event into multiple shorter sessions, with corner time in between.  That approach struck me as potentially helpful in making sure that a husband is always better off behaving than not behaving, because I’d be lying if I said there haven’t been times when I knew I already had a spanking coming, so why worry about behaving better if I was going to be spanked regardless?  So, we experimented with a new system in which each offense earned a minimum of five minutes of spanking time (as measured with an hour glass), with five to ten minutes of corner time between each session.  We haven’t really stuck with it, but I do think the approach has merit and Anne told me she does like it.

For me, the positives of corner time are tied to that particular routine and are about ensuring that each offense gets addressed separately and making it less likely that numbness steps in and makes a long spanking easier to take after a while.  But, for me corner time doesn’t really work as an independent form of punishment or as an anticipation builder.  That’s a little surprising, because I tend to be very impatient by nature.  But, I have also been meditating for so many years, that I now find that standing in a corner for very long results in me slipping into more of a meditative state in which, instead of focusing on the upcoming spanking or reflecting on what I could have done to avoid the one I just got, I tend to think about  . . . nothing. 

So, please share the details of your use of corner time, if any.  And, have a great week.

Club Meeting 310 - Humbling & Humiliation

Honesty is grounded in humility and indeed in humiliation, and in admitting exactly where we are powerless. - David Whyte

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship. 

I hope you had a great week.  Mine was exhausting.  Man, do I ever need this long weekend.  I was traveling all week, jumping from time zone to time zone, all of it work related and much of it involving being "on" for hours among people I don't know well.  For an introvert like me, that's like the drain on a car battery when the lights are left on all night with the radio blaring. Though, I also had moments of self-control, like bowing out of one social engagement that felt avoidable, allowing me to just hang out in the hotel by myself, do some reading, and get some sleep.  I also got a bit of recovery time last night, again skipping another opportunity for socializing and, in the process, getting some extra sleep.  Little victories.  (The week of non-stop travel also kept me from responding to some of last week's comments.  I'll try to catch up on that over the weekend.

Unfortunately, I can't say that being better-behaved than usual and getting some extra sleep last night left me brimming with creative and novel blog topics.  I saw the suggestion to do corner time, but we've done it before and, for whatever reason, I just wasn't feeling it on that one this week.  I will do it, just not this week.  Sometimes, even if I'm not particularly inspired by my own ideas, I'm not resonating to a particular suggested topic for this week.   

Anyway . . . I had been thinking about doing a topic on "humiliation," based on some recent comments by both ZM and Danielle.  ZM has said that humiliation fantasies are a thing for him, and Danielle has recounted that Wayne too gets off on being humiliated in various ways.  I myself tend not to use the term "humiliation."  It has a harsh tone to me.  I do think a lot about "humbling," and it's an express goal of our Domestic Discipline and, increasingly, our FLR.  It's about making the power dynamic "real," as in something I internalize and accept at a very fundamental level.

I'm not sure whether I mean the same thing by "humbling" that others mean by "humiliation."  The purpose "humbling" serves for me is more conceptual than visceral.  I know that I get myself into trouble due to arrogance, temper, and lack of respect for authority.  Given the number of times those things have created problems for me, some "humbling" seems in order as a tool to help me exercise a little more self-control and get a handle on some negative emotional reactions.  I suspect when others t alk about wanting to be "humiliated," the drive they are referring to is more about sex than about performance improvement or accountability, though I'm sure you will all tell me if I'm wrong about that.  I'm also not sure whether "embarrassment," is just a milder form of humiliation, or something categorically different.

For me, the difference between humbling, on the one hand, and humiliation/embarrassment on the other, is the humbling I am looking for is basically a tool for increased accountability, a deterrent to bad behavior, and hopefully a state of mind that helps mitigate some of my problems with temper and lack of respect for authority.  But, conversely, as ZM recently alluded to, embarrassment and self-consciousness about our behavior can inhibit our willingness to own up to that behavior:

"I can really relate to what Al said; the reason I might not accurately self-report is not so much because I don’t want punishment (also true), but more so because I hate to admit my failings. When I screw up, I am disappointed in myself, and my normally giant ego and excessive sense of self-worth is already suffering, and the last thing I want it to see disappointment on her face as well. And then of course if she does punish me, the physical pain is one thing, but the pain to my ego is even greater, though needed and beneficial."

Embarrassment and humiliation are paradoxical in the same way our disciplinary drives are paradoxes to so many of us.  We want it, until we get it.  And, as with spanking, for some the emotional power of embarrassment or humiliation seems to come from it being imposed contrary to our own wishes in that moment.  We don't like embarrassment, yet the prospect of it or its stronger cousin "humiliation," seems to fuel many of our DD and FLR fantasies.  In fact, isn't it possible that the prospect of embarrassment is what underlies so many other things we find morbidly compelling about DD and have talked about here: crying, witnesses, public displays of her authority, etc.? 

For me, humbling is a conscious goal, and it can take subtle forms.  There is, for example,  something powerfully humbling about waiting for a spanking I know is coming. I instantly start behaving better, and I feel better.  Just by ordering the spanking she has put me in place.  Taken me down a peg.  And, that humbling feels good.  Being that kinder, more considerate person all the time should be easy, but it's not.  Like many men who are attracted to DD, there is a lot of testosterone coursing through these veins.  It can help me take the kind of risks that build a successful career, but it can also lead to a lot of impetuous and impulsive decisions that come back to haunt me. It can help me take on jerks and posers, but it also leads me to ignore or confront legitimate authority.  

Humbling me also has major benefits for my wife.  She has said that when it comes to the spanking process, it is not delivering the spanking that she likes but, rather, ordering me to take off all my clothes and get in position and watching me comply.  She knows such compliance is hard for my ego to take.  Similarly, one reason that she likes "service submission" is she knows that I hate it and that my ego rebels every time she gives me an order.  She's been the victim of my ego for a long time, and putting that ego in its place is a form of "payback" just as giving a hard spanking can be a form of payback.
  

But, we haven't gone much beyond that, and for most of our DD relationship had you asked me whether I have any desire for real humiliation or embarrassment, I would have said no.  Now?  I'm not as sure.  An exchange I had with Danielle about the story that accompanied the photo I posted a few weeks ago of a guy with a cowboy hat draped over a hay bale with his naked ass displaying stripes from a recent caning or whipping got me thinking about this more.  As I recounted, the story involved a man and woman who were in some kind of kinky relationship with a dominant male.  The wife had asked the other man to take care of some of her husband's behavioral problems.  He showed up unannounced at a dinner party they were having with another couple, took the embarrassed husband to a barn on the couple’s property, then spanked him to tears with a belt before returning him to the party.  

Then there was the dream I reported about being taken out of a work/family event by to be spanked by our office manager (a male), with everyone knowing that was what was going to happen and some of the people present--including my wife and my dad--telling me to stop trying to argue my way out of it and, instead, go take my medicine.  

And, there was the time at Christmas when I made some smart ass remark when directed to help with something, and my wife quipped that I could do it or she could spank me.  While, I'm not sure anyone overheard, I'm not sure that they didn't. The fact that I still think about it two years later says a lot about the power of being embarrassed by being publicly "outed" to family and friends.  And, the prospect of it being overheard is embarrassing but that makes it exciting.  


Then there is my fascination with crying, which drove a huge amount of my initial obsession after discovering DD.  I have always thought my crying fetish is very much about the embarrassment and vulnerability associated with being spanked to real tears.  And, I absolutely believe that one of the primary reasons I have not let go and sobbed during a spanking is, in fact, because the embarrassment of doing that holds me back every time I get close. 

We also talked about the embarrassment of someone knowing about a particular spanking in the moment or that one is coming.  Others knowing about a spanking definitely does something for me, and it has something to do with the fact that it is inherently embarrassing and humbling.  While I've never thought I was into humiliation, beyond the practical benefits of humbling, I can't deny that there seems to be a pattern of fictional humiliation scenes getting my attention or having free rein in my dreams, including particularly M/m spanking scenarios, being spanked in public, and others being told about our DD relationship.    

How about you?  Does your partner do things that are deliberately designed to humble or embarrass you?  If so, give us some examples.  If not, do you want her to? I'm not talking about the embarrassment that is inherent in DD and in any power exchange to some extent but, rather, things above and beyond or separate from the spanking itself that are consciously designed to embarrass, humble or humiliate.  For the wives, do you enjoying humbling, embarrassing or humiliating your husband?  If so, why?