Sunday, May 31, 2020

The Club - Topic 341 - Buffet Night

"It is not only what we do, but also what we do not do, for which we are accountable." - Moliere

I wasn’t wild about 2019, but 2020 is turning out to be a real motherfucker, isn’t it?  While I’m sure there have been times in the past that I haven’t felt like posting because of  turmoil going on out there in the “real world,” it has never happened this many times back to back. 


I do want to get back to posting regularly, though today I really struggled again to find a particular topic I wanted to discuss.  I can’t say I came up with anything we haven’t talked about before. Since in this post-Covid world we may not be enjoying buffet-style dining for a long while, so let's indulge in some buffet-style sharing here at the Club.  I’ll set the table by exploring some of the user comments from last week and people can pick and choose what they'd like to take up and discuss.

To kick things off, I related last week that Anne did something she’s never really done before over all the years we have been doing this DD thing – really cut loose with her anger while lecturing and spanking.  Liz observed: "It sounds like you finally got what you have always wanted in a DD relationship: nonconsensual punishment. It would be interesting to hear how you feel a few days later." My reply to her and a similar comment to Glen was that I am still processing it. While it goes too far to say it was non-consensual, it did feel like in that moment, in her mind, my consent was pretty much irrelevant.  In terms of what whether there has been a lasting impact, I think the answer is sort of.  We've both been busy and there have been family around a lot, so there hasn't been any substantial spillover or extension of that encounter. I do think I have been more careful about what I say to her and how I say it, though I felt some of that care starting to dissipate a little as the week went on.  As we’ve discussed, it’s hard to break old habits.

A separate question would be whether asserting herself like that led to any lasting change in how she feels or how she approaches this.  I guess only time will tell.  On the night of the event, she seemed poised to take more control than she has in the past, including flexing her muscles in areas that don’t have a direct impact on her.  One of the things she said she wants me to change is posting about politics.  While she and I are pretty aligned politically, she thinks it detracts from the blog, so she more or less ordered me to stop posting about political topics. Now, it is really hard for me to watch a week like this go by and not say something about it, but I guess you could say that last week’s dynamic has stayed in mind enough that I have more or less obeyed her order on this even though it is not an easy thing to do.  Does she enjoy being able to exercise that kind of power?  I haven’t asked her since the night she spanked me, but I suspect she does and that if she continues exercising power she will enjoy it more and more.  As Alan said, “That power and authority naturally grows as it is exercised. It is very reciprocal. The more you command ( or exercise it), the more he obeys (or responds to your authority). Ours has grown over time to a handful of items (first suggested by Aunt Kay) to today's "anytime, anywhere for any reason I decide" That seems to be the natural path of DD.”  And, while Liz says she does not desire to have power over her husband, even she admits that the shift in the power structure, no matter how subtle, is hard not to enjoy.

Talk about enjoying the power that goes along with being the on the “giving” end of the paddle or strap always seems to make a few commenters nervous.  But, Danielle suggested what I think is, for many wives, a naturally limiting principle.  She observed:

“I think my disciplinary methods wouldn’t satisfy the needs of some of the men who post here. When I punish my husband, I draw on maternal instincts I honed from raising two boys. That’s why I don’t limit my disciplinary toolbox to just spanking. And when I do spank, I don’t go overboard. I know some of the guys here feel that a spanking isn’t real unless it’s brutally long and hard.”

First, at the risk of arguing with a disciplinary wife, I don’t know whether she’s right that many of us feel a spanking has to be long or especially severe to be “real” or to be effective, even if we may have received some real bottom blistering spankings. It’s all relative and, as Danielle has said, the punishment needs to fit the crime. For example, if my wife wanted me to do a better job of taking out the garbage, I think 10 quick swats with a paddle in the kitchen could reinforce that message quite effectively. But, in that situation the behavior to be changed and the offense committed is pretty minor. For more substantial offenses, I think some of us need more substantial punishments in order to really feel a sense of accountability. Finally, for those for whom a goal is really breaking down the ego and getting to a cathartic sense fo surrender, it does seem like some need a really long spanking in order to get over the internal resistance they feel to giving in like that. In 15 or so years of DD, I've never gotten there even with pretty hard spankings.

Second, and the issue I’d like to explore a little more is Danielle’s statement that she doesn’t limit her disciplinary toolbox to just spanking.  We’ve done this topic before, but it’s been a year or so, and it’s one I’m always interested in.  To some extent, my interest in this topic extends from some of my own reservations about the limits of the effectiveness of spankings alone.  This blog obviously focuses a lot on corporal punishment, but it is hardly the only form of punishment available to wives who want to see real, positive behavioral change.  Further, it’s hard for me to identify that many spankings that have really changed my behavior fundamentally over long periods of time.  I talked above how last week’s spanking affects me a week later, but the lasting impact wasn’t really from the spanking itself; while it was bad, I’ve endured worse with less emotional and behavioral impact.  What made the difference was her tone and attitude.  So, I feel like spanking is often more effective when coupled with other factors, such as tone or attitude but also perhaps other kinds of punishment or behavioral control.  As discussed, her banning me from discussing politics on the blog wasn’t a punishment, but it was a limit on my freedom of action, and I find it more humbling than a spanking precisely because it requires me to pay attention on a sustained basis to this new limit on my freedom of action.


So, while we have addressed it before, I hope some of you will share some specific examples of non-disciplinary punishments you’ve imposed.  Grounding?  Loss of privileges?  Additional household chores?  Please share your thoughts and experiences. How about financial controls?  Have you ever restricted your husband’s spending or imposed budgetary constraints as a punishment or a means of humbling him?  Again, Danielle had some interesting thoughts: 

“Alan, your former girlfriend’s comment about DD “levelling the playing field” hits home for me. That may seem strange since I have so much power over my husband now. But the fact is that he has always been the main breadwinner, and even in retirement he brings more money to the table than I do working part time. I sometimes wonder whether he would be able to accept being so thoroughly under my thumb if we weren’t both aware of his financial contribution to our lifestyle. No matter how much I may humble him, he can take pride in that, I think.”

This one struck a chord with me, because we are getting closer and closer to, if not retirement, then some kind of profound occupational change that is likely to result in my income becoming much smaller and less predictable.  We’ve never been big spenders, but it’s funny how when retirement and loss of income start becoming a real thing, it does seem to change my attitudes about spending. I suddenly find myself passing up small purchases (clothing I don’t really need, books I might never read, etc.) that I might not have thought twice about just a few weeks ago. While she hasn’t exercised much control over my spending, it might be good for us to explore that as we get closer to actually needing to exercise some self-restraint in that area. 


Like I said, I don’t have a specific topic in mind for this week, so comment on any of the above that strikes your fancy.

Have a good week.  Stay healthy and safe.

52 comments:

  1. When I opened your blog this morning I actually said to myself "I hope the discussions remain about the lifestyle and are not all about the insanity everywhere in the news." I was hoping for a place of respite and sanctuary. And lo and behold, with some good "advice" from your wife, it is so.

    In response to your inquiry about "other punishments"; I found it terribly impactful when Aunt Kay would impose a non-spanking punishment, which she usually did in a very matter of fact manner. For example, "Put the bike back in the garage. You are staying home" and then walking back into the house with no further discussion. Chores were never a thing because there isn't much I mind doing. But she knew me so well, any restriction or denial she put on me was one that worked.

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    1. Yeah, it's a tough call. I do think people are overwhelmed right now. Though, I also think it is true that the calls I hear from to people about "can't we not talk about politics" come from people whose political choices have contributed most directly to the current polarization. But, anyway . . .

      I have a funny relationship with chores. I feel like I do my share, but I have a visceral reaction against being *told* to do them. Of course, maybe it is *because* I do lots of things without being told that I actively resent being directed to do more.

      "Matter of fact" seems like the perfect tone for imposing a non-spanking punishment.

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    2. This just goes to show me how the reality of FLR’s might be very different than my precious fantasies. Your wife asserting her authority to manage your blog and your voice, and to shut down political discussion was an unexpected turn for sure. That’s not to say I think she’s wrong. Politics has become a battle zone. When core values of right and wrong have diverged, when lies abound, when people are losing their lives, their country, their planet, there’s no middle ground on which to meet for pleasant conversation. If your wife is wanting to protect this blog from a war that’s just beginning, she is wise.

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    3. Dan and Brett,
      I should probably be the last ( maybe alongside KD) to agree with your wife about eschewing politics on this blog for the present. I do agree with her simply because everyone needs a port of sanctuary amid the swirling often vicious division enmeshing us all seemingly 24 hours a day..Away from the blog however I deeply believe everyone should involve themselves in the virtual war going on because the future of the country, what it will become, and where it will go are the stakes and none get to sit that one out.
      Alan

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    4. Alan, agreed, yet all to many will either sit it out or come up with an excuse normalizing their support of it.

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  2. Dan, in our pre-FLR days, Wayne and I used to have arguments about how much of the housework he should be expected to do, given that he worked full time and I worked part time. I suppose we argued because he thought he was doing his fair share, and I didn't agree. It's probably none of my business, but does Anne ever disagree with your perception that you do your fair share? If not, you probably do. I find it interesting that you have "a visceral reaction against being *told* to do them." I suspect my husband does too. I can see it in his eyes sometimes. It's like for a moment his pre-FLR self is there before he swallows his pride and does what he is told. Sometimes he will get defensive and say, "I was planning to do it," and I can see that it stung his pride that I thought he needed to be told.

    Danielle

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    1. Hi Danielle. No, she's never said she disagrees with my perception that I do my share.

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  3. Dan,
    I don’t have any objection to any DD couple who use punishments other than spanking. Lots of comments on your blog and other blogs suggest non-corporal punishment is in the mix for enough couples to make it worth discussing. But we really don’t use it with the exception of some rare orgasm control (not letting me have one) as a result of some behavior. But generally my view of it is –if it’s not broken, why fix it- and spanking does work for us for the most part without additional punishment. I need to add that we do use liberally “reinforcements”, which are meant to sharpen and underscore the purpose a spanking was administered. This as I remember was originally taught by Aunt Kay and include for us corner time, formal scolding, occasional requirement to wear female panties for a period of time, some use of a strap on and occasional witnessed spanking (her sister). The even rarer spanking I get after an orgasm is also probably a kind of reinforcement, but limited to one or two situations only. I would have to go back to Aunt Kay’s writings to be sure what reinforcements she talked about but I am pretty sure corner time and scolding was the major ones. Incidentally I agree with you fully that a spanking by itself no matter how severe is not likely to modify behavior long term, but a spanking delivered after a scorching scolding bookended with an embarrassing stint in the corner and maybe some post spanking or post corner tough interrogation sure has changed many of my behaviors either permanently of for a long time. As discussed last week, the emotional investment of the disciplinarian is of course crucial in making it work. But if it does work ,why venture out to non-spanking punishments which have the potential to breed resentment and typically take a lot of time to administer. A spanking even with all the bells and whistles can take five minutes or less and rarely more than an hour
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. Do the non-spanking punishments take time to "administer" or, rather, require lots of time to "endure." The latter is, to me, what makes them potentially effective if a spanking has failed.

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  4. Dan,
    "I hope some of you will share some specific examples of non-disciplinary punishments you’ve imposed. Grounding? Loss of privileges? Additional household chores? Please share your thoughts and experiences. How about financial controls?"
    Grounding - yes. And, the threat of additional grounding unless my husband finished a home project that was taking far too long. He's lost privileges - most recently he was banned from the internet for a week. As far as financial controls my husband has vastly improved in the areas of spending money. I control the money anyway, so I don't worry about him any longer. He's been responsible. Other non-discipline punishments have included him texting me regularly, writing lines (last time was on a business trip), having additional chores assigned to him (that's really where he was assigned the permanent task of kitchen cleanup after either of us cook or I bake), making him wear panties for a week, and wearing his chastity device, until bedtime. I've really scolded him, but scolding should be reserved for something serious. Since he asked for a stronger FLR/DD marriage, he's had to accept the fact that I won't tolerate disobedience. My husband has been pretty good and seems to love all this, except for an issue a couple of weeks that got him caned (though he admits he deserved it).

    Alan,
    "But we really don’t use it with the exception of some rare orgasm control (not letting me have one) as a result of some behavior."
    We are getting into orgasm control, but I have not used it as punishment, yet. It is part of many FLRs, and my husband is aware of my plan to incorporate it.

    Danielle,
    "It's like for a moment his pre-FLR self is there before he swallows his pride and does what he is told. Sometimes he will get defensive and say, "I was planning to do it," and I can see that it stung his pride that I thought he needed to be told."
    Yes, I see it in my husband from time to time. Pride rears its head. But my husband has given me no push back at all for well over two weeks.

    Generally, I don't want to resort to always hitting/spanking him, and these non-DD punishments have been effective. There’s an obvious fact that DD and FLR are indulgences which seem to have improved him greatly. I don’t want to be cruel (though DD and FLR aren't working out too bad for me either). I recently used the long cane on him because of behavior. I know it really hurt. It's effective but too much can cause resentment. You have to find a balance. Thus far, he's been great. If he were to seriously misbehave right now, I'd use non-DD methods to punish him first. I think the point is not to punish a submissive, but ultimately get to the point where you manage them.
    Have a great week,
    CarolH.

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    1. Carol, I strongly agree with your statement, “I think the point is not to punish a submissive, but ultimately get to the point where you manage them.” That’s exactly how I feel. Superficially, discipline involves punishment: the use of unpleasant consequences to deter undesirable behavior. But with a sexually submissive man—and both of our husbands seem to be that—I think discipline has the function of enthralment as much as deterrence. They submit to us because they want to submit to us. It’s almost like a sexual orientation. So the main point of a disciplinary relationship is not to make them fear the consequences of displeasing us, but to show them that we value their submission and are willing to do our part to nurture it. When I first started to discipline my husband, he would sometimes write love letters to me after I “punished” him, saying how loved he felt when I made the effort to improve his behavior and teach him how to please me.
      Danielle

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    2. Danielle,
      "But with a sexually submissive man—and both of our husbands seem to be that—I think discipline has the function of enthralment as much as deterrence. They submit to us because they want to submit to us. It’s almost like a sexual orientation."
      I agree. I also find that for any relationship to remain healthy and fresh, it must change. That seems to have happened with our husbands. It seems like you have the situation well in hand. I'm not exactly sure whether the lock down provided the environment that caused my marriage to shift in the last few months, but my husband clearly wants to defer to my authority and he's happy. That's why Dan's topic of non-disciplinary punishment is so fascinating, at least to some of us. Not all unpleasant consequences need to be physically painful to be effective. I have talked to my husband, at length, because his feelings and security are important. He is sexually submissive and definitely wants to submit to me and please me. He sees a vast improvement in himself and, to be honest, I do too. That may be a motivation for him as much as the potential for more passion. He told me he still felt bad about how he acted after I purchased him a gift that will be an anniversary present. I told him we are past it now and not to bring it up. I told him to treat punishment and our subsequent discussions about the incident as a learning experience.
      CarolH.

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  5. Having to write lines while on a business trip is a brilliant way to remind him of his place and my reach. My husband travels about once a month. He says he tells me how he spends his evenings. Now I know I can be sure

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    1. Anonymous,
      Writing lines was given as punishment, but I might not give it to him again as just an activity. Nothing is 100 percent, but I'm getting to the point where I completely trust my husband. He is the submissive type, and he's very happy in an FLR/DD marriage. I also think it’s a turn on, for him, in that he would NOT want to face the consequences from me if he did anything he wasn't supposed to do, if that makes sense. Whenever he travels again he's knows he potentially under surveillance (in a way) because he must answer my text messages promptly unless there’s a VERY good reason he is unable to. He must also call me if I request it. Lines would be punishment. An essay would be punishment, but only if my husband deserves it.
      CarolH.

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    2. I guess I just like the control. He seems to enjoy his freedom on the road. I just love the vision of him sitting in his room writing 500 times "My wife decides how I will spend my time" Plus he will have to explain to the guy he travels with why he can't come to the bar.

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    3. Anonymous,
      The way you describe your own husband writing lines is a very funny visual. My husband considers himself under my scrutiny when he's away. When he sees a text or email with "Carol" anywhere in the ID he must answer swiftly, and he knows better than to lie to me. If he says he's in his room, he is. Actually, he loves every minute of the attention he's getting even when we're apart.
      CarolH.

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    4. He is traveling next week so we will try both texting and writing lines. I think I will go with "My wife decides how I will spend my time even when I am not at home." Thanks for the tip. I think we are both on the same track.

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  6. Brett wrote "We’re attracted to our wives, or we would not have gotten married, but when she shows that strength and independent will to take control and to discipline with spanking, it leaves a golden aura around her that will glow forever, taking the attraction to another level altogether." somewhere and I just want to acknowledge how beautiful it was.

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    1. Thank you, Tomy. How kind of you to say. I’m humbled that you were moved by my thought there.

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    2. Brett, Tomy,
      "We’re attracted to our wives, or we would not have gotten married, but when she shows that strength and independent will to take control and to discipline with spanking, it leaves a golden aura around her that will glow forever, taking the attraction to another level altogether."

      That is a beautiful thought. My husband and I will celebrate 30 years together next weekend, and we knew each other long before and dated in college. We were talking at dinner about what we might do to celebrate our anniversary (probably a quiet weekend upstate, hopefully with good weather, because with the virus issue things like cruises weren't planned). He told me how happy he was. He also told me how good he thought I looked. It made me tear. He says he's very happy with me in charge and he's finding our marriage more exciting than ever before with the added authority I exercise. I couldn't help but to see the connection to what Brett commented.

      It seemed a little strange to hear him on the phone talking in a strong and professional manner to coworkers in a meeting before he ended his day, and then watch his whole demeanor and tone change when he came to me and asked me if there's anything he could do to help with dinner, since I cook during the week. Brett expressed such a nice thought.
      Regards,
      CarolH.

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    3. Thank you, Carol. It sounds like you have a truly great relationship. We’ve been married to our spouses for roughly the same amount of time. I hope you are able to celebrate your 30th as the special event that it is, and a quiet weekend together can be just the ticket.

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    4. Brett,
      Thanks for the very nice sentiment. I'm probably saying what you already feel but 30 years just goes by in a flash. I'm lucky to be able to say that even though the dynamics may have changed in our marriage, my husband and I are still very happy.
      Regards,
      CarolH.

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  7. "So comment on any of the above that strikes your fancy"

    >>>>>>>>>>This one struck a chord with me, because we are getting closer and closer to, if not retirement, then some kind of profound occupational change that is likely to result in my income becoming much smaller and less predictable. We’ve never been big spenders, but it’s funny how when retirement and loss of income start becoming a real thing, it does seem to change my attitudes about spending. I suddenly find myself passing up small purchases (clothing I don’t really need, books I might never read, etc.) that I might not have thought twice about just a few weeks ago. While she hasn’t exercised much control over my spending, it might be good for us to explore that as we get closer to actually needing to exercise some self-restraint in that area. <<<<<<<<<<<

    I retired early and knowing that doing so would be mentally healthy but financially challenging. Then my ex made things worse out of spite. But in the midst of it all I began to go to second hand stores on Rosa's recommendation. (when she first came to the US, she relied on these stores to survive.)

    Now we don't NEED to rely on those low prices, but I have come to LOVE cruising those stores! IMO places like Unique and Goodwill have those chain mall stores beat cold. I don't HAVE to shop there like Rosa did all those years ago......but now I wouldn't go back to standard shopping ways for anything. So Dan, there are ways to feel free to spend a bit and feel like the winner in a treasure hunt without it costing a big price tag.

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    1. That's good to know. There definitely is something mentally freeing about frugality. Seems like it would be the the opposite, i.e. that not spending freely would feel constraining. Yet, it doesn't.

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    2. Dan,
      "There definitely is something mentally freeing about frugality. Seems like it would be the opposite, i.e. that not spending freely would feel constraining. Yet, it doesn't."

      Dan,
      You're both right. It took many years for my husband to understand the positives of frugality. If he had a dollar, he spent 2 dollars. He/we would have had credit card debt if it weren't for me. I had to be frugal growing up. My sister and brothers did as well. Mother only worked part time. The positive thing is that my husband and I have savings and property because of being frugal. There really is something freeing about being frugal, and frugality can be the smart way to be. That's why I felt comfortable buying him something he really wanted for our anniversary. Sometimes you need to splurge too.
      Regards,
      CarolH.

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    3. "The positive thing is that my husband and I have savings and property because of being frugal. There really is something freeing about being frugal, and frugality can be the smart way to be." Carol, you are right that it is freeing in two senses -- mentally/emotionally and also more concretely in terms of giving you disposable income and the life choices that come with that. I also agree on the value of splurging, and I'm not into depriving me of stuff that I really want and spending what it takes to get what I *really* want versus making a bad compromise with something cheaper.

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  8. Danielle here:

    I don’t think I have anything new to add to things I have previously said on this topic, but for the record, here is a list of non-spanking punishments I have used on my husband at some point:
    Grounding
    Confiscation of car keys (a less limiting form of grounding)
    Loss of allowance (Having this as a disciplinary option is part of the point of having him on an allowance).
    Loss of access to the internet
    Not being allowed to watch television
    Extra chores
    Banishment to the guest room
    Loss of sexual privileges (An age old form of feminine power even outside of FLR, I think)
    Sending him to bed early (I haven’t used this one often because it feels extreme to me, being so infantilizing, but it sure has an impact when I do use it).
    Scolding (especially potent if done in public).

    As I have explained before, I often combine non-spanking punishments with spanking, so I don’t see it as an either/or.

    I get that spanking is all some couples need, or all some men would be willing submit to. But personally, I would find a DD arrangement in which spanking was my only option frustratingly limiting. If I am more or less displeased, the only way to express that with spanking would be to make the spanking more or less harsh. But having the option of adding other consequences to a spanking gives me a satisfying feeling of control and self-expression. And while a spanking is over in a matter of minutes, those other punishments can last as long as I see fit, with little additional effort from me.

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    1. Danielle,
      This adds something new to the topic for me. For most of my life, I was motivated by a spanking-for-punishment fetish. The fantasy is that a spanking resolves an issue and then hangs in the air as a warning that misbehavior comes with unwanted consequences. A typical scenario is misbehavior that should induce shame, and then that being the punishment most potent in magnifying the shame felt. As in childhood, spankings were a special event, not something that happens routinely. Spanking would lose its power if I became too acclimated to it, or wouldn’t it be too emotionally taxing if it remained so powerful? I expect it could be too taxing for my partner if it was routine, unless she really enjoys the scene for the sake of the scene. But the idea is that this is a task for her as a disciplinarian, and not an easy one from which she can be emotionally detached. She enjoys her role, derives satisfaction from what it accomplishes, but isn’t looking for excuses to punish. If and when it happens, it’s meaningful.

      I’ve come to realize that, in an actual female led relationship, discipline may be an ongoing issue that requires more frequent punishment as consequences for a variety of offenses big or small. What I think of as small may be, to her, big. If punishment must be the result of every displeasure, then there needs to be a toolbox of consequences from which she can draw. Spanking is my fantasy, but it could be destroyed with too many repetitions. I might not want to continue to commit to a relationship like that. What I find compelling about your list is that, except for loss of sexual privileges, all the punishments are typical parental disciplinary measures. As such, they on some level satisfy the same emotional needs that a spanking provides, including the feelings of humility.

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    2. My experience is that it is essential to have a range of ounishmentsSpanking a man who wants to be spanked is lots of fun but it does not always lead to a FLR marriage. My experience is that it was only after I introduced other punishments, principally grounding, that he came to accept my authority. Here is my experience.
      We started spanking before marriage. We both enjoyed it and continued after the wedding. Post spanking sex was great. But after two years, no matter how much I paddled his backside, it was really only foreplay. Most Fridays after work, is was over my knee, the sex. Until one Friday.
      He had been preoccupied all week, completely inattentive. I was mad and wanted to make sure he knew. He came home, opened a beer, and put his golf clubs into the back of the car right away. Only then did he come into the living room where I was. I told him to immediately get the paddle and bring it to me. He did but had a big smirk on his face. That is when it hit me. Either I really punish him for real or this was all a game.
      Only after I had him over my knee, I told him. He was grounded for the weekend. Only after he gave in did he get off my lap. He was really mortified to back out on his friends. But all weekend he was a meek little boy. He was not allowed out of the house Saturday. Instead he did laundry and vacuumed. He was sent to bed right after dinner. I came in hours later and we had wonderful sex. Sunday he followed me around like a puppy helping me in the garden and in the kitchen. He was far more attentive all the following week.
      My conclusion. Men are little boys and should be punished like little boys. I have rarely had to ground him since. I do occasionally take away television or computer rights. I never cut him off from sex. That would be punishment for me. Mary

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    3. Mary,

      Thank you for sharing that story. It must have been an amusing and satisfying occasion for you. I hope I'm not being too intrusive in asking whether he cried before he agreed that he was grounded for the weekend?

      It's a little depressing how often men who are in domestic discipline have their access to sex reduced or cut off entirely. For some of us, perhaps many of us, a big part of the attraction to disciplinary spanking is the possibility for bonding and intimacy and disallowing sex afterwards or for the entire day works against that. I get why an annoyed partner wouldn't want to feel like she was sexually satisfying (or worse, "servicing") her misbehaving husband, but still... Anyway, I enjoy reading accounts where wives happen to look at it a different way that doesn't involve the man being cut off from sex.

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    4. No he did not cry. He whined, he pleaded, he begged. But he was over my lap and I had the paddle. It took another 15-20 smacks before he accepted his fate, BTW, his friends were not happy either. They found a new fourth and it was 5 or 6 weeks before he found a new foursome to play with. We had a number of pleasant (for me at least) Saturdays. And I am not the one who does the servicing. But I agree, denying sex makes no sense unless you have another partner.

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    5. "But having the option of adding other consequences to a spanking gives me a satisfying feeling of control and self-expression. And while a spanking is over in a matter of minutes, those other punishments can last as long as I see fit, with little additional effort from me." Danielle, I agree. This emphasizes why I think non-spanking punishments should always be option.

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    6. Hi Mary. Thanks for joining. I totally get how grounding could be incredibly powerful in both denying him an activity he genuinely wants to engage in and also the embarrassment of canceling plans with friends.

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    7. Thanks for hosting Dan. I used a lot of words to say what Danielle said in that one sentence. "And while a spanking is over in a manner of minutes, those other punishments last as long as I see fit WITH LITTLE ADDITIONAL EFFORT FROM ME (EMPHASIS ADDED). Grounded and sent to bed occupied his time, his consciousness. Mary

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    8. Exactly. The punishment stays on his mind, not yours.

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  9. After we broke up and I moved out of the house, we had sex several times - and I realized that was a mistake because Jimmy was getting what he wanted (in my pants) but I was not getting what I wanted (respect). So I tightened my self-control and stopped - until we are totally back together. I don't see that as a punishment, but Jimmy says it is: he says that denial on top of the bath brush is hard to take, especially since we are sharing the same house now. I say that if spanking and denial complement each other in behavior change, all the better. But ironically, his comments about denial have also gotten him the bath brush. The other day he called me a prick teaser and I set his ass on fire for it. While I was paddling him I told him that the denial was all his fault; if he had acted respectfully to me throughout our marriage, he would be in my pants every night.
    So it seems that whether something is a punishment is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. The punisher and the punished may have quite different views!
    Belle

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    1. If you are denying him and “… setting his ass on fire” with the bath-brush and yet not getting the results you expect, maybe a Plan B is needed. Denial is a negative punishment and it does not work by itself and can cause serious resentment which is not what you want. My wife for years has used what could be called contingency denial and she has been pleased with the results .We have normal lovemaking (except in the 24 hours after a disciplinary spanking. BUT, I must ask and receive her permission to penetrate her (and she can and has denied me if she chooses) AND I must (particularly important) get her explicit permission to climax) which like penetration she can and has denied although not arbitrarily and not very often (does it happen). This system means she is never denied a pleasure very important to her while she has a tool to rein me in if necessary. Maybe the best thing about it is that after a few months or so of “training”, she rarely uses it or needs to use it and we both benefit from that.
      Alan

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    2. The denial has nothing to do with DD. It is because we are not a couple. We are an ex-couple who live in the same house and may be future couple. I won't have sex with him until we agree to renew our vows. Meanwhile, he asked me to spank him and I agreed in the hope it will improve the things that drove us apart.
      When and if I let him back inside me he can squirt all he wants and I hope he eventually gives me a baby!
      Belle

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    3. Belle,
      You said you were seeking "respect"; I offered some ideas about that in the context of DD inasmuch as you mention regular application of your bath brush. It sounds like it's a little more complicated. Good luck with it.
      Alan .

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  10. Belle, is it a case of you want a baby and he doesn't?

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  11. Mary, if this is happening, it sounds like you aren't spanking him hard enough for it to be a punishment. Maybe do so harder or with a more painful instrument?

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    1. Spanking a man who wants to be spanked is lots of fun but it does not always lead to a FLR marriage. My experience is that it was only after I introduced other punishments, principally grounding, that he came to accept my authority. Here is my experience.
      We started spanking before marriage. We both enjoyed it and continued after the wedding. Post spanking sex was great. But after two years, no matter how much I paddled his backside, it was really only foreplay. Most Fridays after work, is was over my knee, the sex. Until one Friday.
      He had been preoccupied all week, completely inattentive. I was mad and wanted to make sure he knew. He came home, opened a beer, and put his golf clubs into the back of the car right away. Only then did he come into the living room where I was. I told him to immediately get the paddle and bring it to me. He did but had a big smirk on his face. That is when it hit me. Either I really punish him for real or this was all a game.
      Only after I had him over my knee, I told him. He was grounded for the weekend. Only after he gave in did he get off my lap. He was really mortified to back out on his friends. But all weekend he was a meek little boy. He was not allowed out of the house Saturday. Instead he did laundry and vacuumed. He was sent to bed right after dinner. I came in hours later and we had wonderful sex. Sunday he followed me around like a puppy helping me in the garden and in the kitchen. He was far more attentive all the following week.
      My conclusion. Men are little boys and should be punished like little boys. I have rarely had to ground him since. I do occasionally take away television or computer rights. I never cut him off from sex. That would be punishment for me.
      The point that I was trying to make is that spanking a man who wants to be spanked is not really a punishment. It is a scene. So there must be something afterwards to establish your dominance.
      Withholding sex punishes me. I do him however I see fit and he does me however I want.
      So other punishments are essentials. Taking things away from him is very effective. All of a sudden he is a little boy under maternal authority. Spanked and grounded, spanked and sent to bed. After his spanking he meekly accepts my authority.
      This is not just a scene. This is something he wants to avoid so he is my good little boy.
      So he does not even think about hanging out at the bar rather than stays at home with me. I, on the other hand, am free to have a weekly get together with the girls. Once, when the gathering was at my house, I sent him to the bedroom after he brought out the snacks. He was embarrassed and the girls looked at each but said nothing. I went up, tucked him in and turned out the light. This time I had the smirk which he saw just before I tuned out the light and the girls saw when I came downstairs.
      I love the smirk.
      Anyway, my experience has been that these kinds of punishments are what turn a man with a spanking fetish into a good little boy in a FLR relationship. I spank him for fun when I feel like it and as punishment when he deserves. But punishment is spanking plus
      Mary

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    2. Mary: "My conclusion. Men are little boys and should be punished like little boys." There's a lot of truth in that.

      "The point that I was trying to make is that spanking a man who wants to be spanked is not really a punishment. It is a scene. . . . So there must be something afterwards to establish your dominance. So other punishments are essentials. Taking things away from him is very effective. All of a sudden he is a little boy under maternal authority. Spanked and grounded, spanked and sent to bed. . . . This is not just a scene."

      Great stuff!

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    3. Mary wrote: >>> My conclusion. Men are little boys and should be punished like little boys. I have rarely had to ground him since. I do occasionally take away television or Dan.computer rights. I never cut him off from sex. That would be punishment for me.<<<

      Mary, I agree with you on the need to have non-spanking punishments in addition to spanking if your husband has a spanking fetish, like my husband does. I also understand not wanting to cut your husband off from sex as a punishment because that would be punishment for you. However, I have a slightly different take. The beauty of FLR is that I can decide in the moment, based on my mood, whether to follow a spanking with a period of sexual denial. I know from experience that once the shame and discomfort of a punitive spanking wears off, my husband will get horny. It’s practically a law of nature. Lol. If I am in the mood for sexual intimacy myself, it would be a shame to waste his arousal by cutting him off from sexual contact with me, so post-spanking sex may be on the menu. On the other hand, if he has really annoyed me, I might not be in the mood for sex myself, so denying him wouldn’t be self punishment. But even if I become aroused myself, I have found it possible to have sexual pleasure myself while denying my husband access to my bed. I won’t go into that in detail because that would stray over the line from the DD focus of Dan’s blog into kink. I will simply say that I like sex toys, and I have sometimes found it exciting to have fun with my toys while hubby is in the next room, or maybe even beside me in bed, struggling to obey a command not to touch himself until further notice.
      Danielle

      Danielle

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  12. My wife only uses spanking. Her thoughts are that it should be painful enough to be a punishment in itself. Once the spanking punishment has been administered with sufficient pain to her liking, that is it and the matter is finished.

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  13. Liz and I don't believe in humiliation, and that's what a lot of these other punishments do. Humiliation is humbling, which is the point of my paddlings. But it also is a lot more negative things, in my opinion. I can be humbled without being humiliated. That is what the paddle does for me. We won't humiliate just to humble.
    Arthur

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    1. Art nails it distinguishing "humbling" from "humiliation". It's a real difference for us as well. Humbling levels off that out-sized male ego and lets a mam accept and respond to his wife's authority. Humiliation is a destructive tearing down of someone's sense of self worth and is inherently wrong. For sure there is a sometimes thin line between the two but it's a real line and one of the skills an effective disciplinarian possesses or develops.
      Alan

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    2. Alan,
      "Humbling levels off that out-sized male ego and lets a man accept and respond to his wife's authority. Humiliation is a destructive tearing down of someone's sense of self worth..."
      Truthfully, I agree. Some of my non-DD punishments might sound humiliating and would be construed that way, especially if someone we both were acquainted with knew of them. I’ve commented here, and joked to him, about outing him. He is a proud man and very intelligent. I’d worry if outing would be too humiliating for him. Spanking itself would be too humiliating if, for example, his men friends knew.

      What I've learned about my husband after more than 30 years together is that he has a kinky side that enjoys much of the FLR dynamic. So, it makes it tough to discipline him when he really needs it and to be sure I’m delivering a message and is not just stroking his kinky side. He wants to accept my authority, but I really don’t want to always be spanking him for every little thing. That’s why I gave him a painful and effective caning three weeks ago after it was building up and he was acting unmanageable, ungrateful, and nasty. His conduct and treatment of me has been wonderful since. Perfect? No, but nothing is perfect. The point is, he’s been great.

      I can see by a smirk on his face after non-DD I’ve given him like grounding him, making him write lines, or answering my text messages “without delay” that he’s enjoying the attention (he isn’t fooling me). That’s why I trust him to make a few trips for fun in the mountains with his friends each year and let his hair down (“figuratively” as he says in his case, unfortunately). He's far more responsible than when I first met him. My discipline, knocking him down a few pegs, and rewarding how he’s improved over the years seems to have worked in his case, and even in his career.
      Have a nice weekend,
      CarolH.

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    3. I too see a difference between "humbling" and "humiliation," but I don't see that spanking falls on one side of that line and non-spanking punishments are more likely to fall on the other.

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  14. Aunt Kay never had as a goal humiliating me or anyone else. If anything, her underlying intent was always to build me up as a human being. Spanking and the occasional other punishments were how she got the job or building my character done. Of course I went through the whole range of emotions at times including some resentment in the moment and sometimes rebelling or resisting. But she was a firm, loving woman and I am eternally grateful.

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    1. Hi Tomy. See my comment immediately above. Your observation is why I don't think a non-spanking punishment is inherently more or less humiliating than a spanking. In each case, it's all about the intent of the one doling it out and how it is perceived by the recipient.

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  15. Sending a husband to bed in front of the wife's girlfriends is designed to humiliate, not just humble. We don't believe in punishment designed to humiliate. Nor do we want me to be a "good little boy in a FLR." Our DD is far different, and i am glad it is.
    Arthur

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