Monday, May 25, 2020

The Club - Meeting 340 - NOT Asking for It, and Anger Revisited


When someone says that I'm angry it's actually a compliment. I have not always been direct with my anger in my relationships, which is part of why I'd write about it in my songs because I had such fear around expressing anger as a woman. - Alanis Morissette

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

Well, I feel like I’m finally coming out of the Covid-19 induced blahs.  I’m not sure what brought them to an end, mostly because I’m not sure what caused them in the first place. Though, in a situation as abnormal as the one we’ve all been going through, is it any wonder that it’s pretty easy to get disconnected and discombobulated? But, it really was becoming pretty problematic, because it wasn’t just my interest in DD that plunged.  My libido diminished down to nothing, and I found myself not having any interest in much of anything.  The ultimate result was that during a period in which we had the house to ourselves almost every day and more than ample time on our hands, we were having less sex than usual and Domestic Discipline was starting to feel like a distant memory.  In fact, because the pandemic got tacked onto an extended period with houseguests, almost five months went by without a single spanking.  That is by far the longest “break” we’ve ever taken, and it was not something either of us consciously initiated or wanted.My bottom’s months-long reprieve ended this week.  In retrospect, it had been building for a long time. say familiarity breeds contempt, and wow have we ever been familiar to each other for the last few weeks.  I'd gotten snippy with her several times during the lockdown.  Honestly, I’m not sure it was much worse or more often than usual, but this time there wasn’t any time apart between those instances of marital friction.

I had plenty of warning.  Several times, she called me out on it when I said something insensitive or arrogant.  In the past, when I caught myself behaving badly, I usually would have pointed out, perhaps in a journal entry, that our DD arrangement gives her the authority to put me in my place any time she wants.  Yet, I didn't do it this time. Why not?  Well, two reasons. First, as discussed, for some period of time I just lost interest DD.  Second, I was frustrated that even though she kept voicing hurt and displeasure with how I was talking to her, she did absolutely nothing about it. I finally decided (sort of) that if this thing we do was worth doing at all, then she really needed to take ownership.

In an interesting bit of timing and synchronicity, I had been thinking about this non-initiation strategy on Friday morning, and wondering whether she would ever recall that if she was really angry about my conduct, she had the power to do something about it. That night at dinner, out of the blue she said that whether I was interested in DD or not (she had apparently been reading the blog and knew about my flagging interest), I was going to be getting a dose of it.  Her message wasn’t conveyed with a lot of authority. Yet, I can't emphasize enough how different it feels when a Disciplinary Wife takes the initiative, as opposed to just kind of accommodating or initiating only after being reminded about her authority.  It is just a totally different thing when the prospect of a spanking actually feels imposed.


I’ve talked a couple of times recently about wanting a “reset,” i.e. something that might change the nature of our DD relationship and make it more “real.” More imposed.  Something that feels less initiated by me, to the point that it feels almost non-consensual. Well, I think I may have finally gotten it.  I admit that I was pretty anxious about the likely level of pain I was going to experience, being spanked hard on a butt that hadn’t felt a paddle or strap in five months.  Yet, we’ve been at this so long, it’s hard for it not to feel a little routine or scripted.  I went upstairs when instructed.  I set out her tools, stripped off all my clothes, and waited for her.  She came out of the bathroom after a few minutes, and the lecture began like it has so many times before.  She sighed a bit, a soft expression of disappointment that usually leads into a fairly unemotional listing of what I am about to be spanked for.


Yet, this time, something changed.  She really cut loose with the lecturing.  In an increasingly angry tone, she told me not just what I had done, but how my arrogant tone and remarks made her feel.  She was virtually yelling at me, as she berated me for my behavior and said that was absolutely done taking it from me. It went on longer than any of her prior lectures and, when she had finally said everything she had to say, she told me brusquely to get over the ottoman that she always spanks me on.  She laid into me hard and long with multiple straps and paddles.  After several minutes and a couple hundred swats, she asked whether she was getting through to me.  Between gasps and yelps, I assured her I was, but she made sure I knew I had more coming.  And, she delivered.  I got up from the ottoman one thoroughly chastened little boy.

It’s not just me who saw this as a possible turning point.  She said afterward that this was the first time she had spanked me when she was feeling real anger and the first time she really cut loose when lecturing me.  We talked about how empowering it would be for her if she stopped censoring her own feelings and just spoke up whenever she was mad.  

 How do I feel about it?  I’ve said before that I like it when my wife displays emotion before or during a spanking, but this was on a really different scale. It was disturbing and embarrassing and extremely humbling in the moment.  Yet, I’m glad that she now seems to have internalized that it is OK to hurt not just my bottom but my feelings when I hurt hers.  I also think this is the way it has to be if discipline is going to lead to real improvement.  My ego is pretty strong, and I need more than just a cold, clinical application of the paddle to break down my defenses and really accept accountability. It also helps me to accept her authority if she is expressing herself like she really is in charge.

How about you? Ladies, do you keep your anger at your husband bottled up?  Or, so you sometimes cut loose and let him know how he’s made you feel? Do displays of anger and emotion help establish your role and your authority.  Or, do your spankings tend to be more business-like and controlled?  Men, have you pushed your wife to the point of real anger? Does it make the discipline feel more real?  Do you feel more under her authority when she expresses that authority with real strength and angry passion?

 Have a great week.

56 comments:

  1. It seems that if your wife had not read your blog she may not have followed through Dan?
    My wife has never spanked in anger and usually let's things 'stew' for a while before acting so has more of a determined rather than angry mood.Did you find her level of anger made the punishment more severe than usual?

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    1. Hi Glen. No, I think she would have followed through even had she not read the blog, because none of the recent blog entries suggested that I thought she should deal with my bad behavior. In fact, they may have suggested that I had lost interest in the whole thing. That's why this feels like a possibly significant change, since she decided to re-institute the DD side of our relationship without any real effort to determine how I felt about that. It may not been non-consensual, but it was as if my consent was not particularly relevant to her.

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    2. That's the way it should be....also interesting that mid-spanking she asked you if she was getting through to you , knowing very well that she was!
      Sounds like it was all very satisfying for her.

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    3. "It may not been non-consensual, but it was as if my consent was not particularly relevant to her." Wow! Now that was a great statement. That is exactly what I want consent to feel like. I consent to the relationship, but I may not exactly consent to her spanking me at that particular time. But because this is what I want, she doesn't really care if I want it at the time or not.

      -ZM

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  2. Dan, I feel exactly like your wife! I have so much resentment from all those years of my husband disrespecting me that I really let Jimmy have it now, both with the angry lectures and the bath brush. And 200 is a very good number! This is the main reason I don't get back with him, because I am so angry! But I must say that his behavior is much improved!

    He goes over the arm of the couch rather than an ottoman, and he keeps his underwear on because I do not let him in my bed. But otherwise your latest punishment sounds a lot like ours. Good for Ann!
    Belle

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    1. I'm surprised he has cooperated this long if sex is still off the table.

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  3. My wife avoids spanking in anger, partially because it tends to be inconvenient at the time, but also she's reluctance to 'go there'. One time, I knew I had made her very mad, and she pointedly refused to spank, which was a punishment by itself.

    Recently, though, she actually got more angry over the course of the spanking. I was being punished for two reasons - one I knew right off and was appropriately sorry for (household stuff). The second I just couldn't remember. It was more than a hundred painful swats with a silicone spatula before she offered enough hints that it came to me - it was a smart remark on my part.

    Yes, she was in complete charge and pushed both our limits, and it was one of our longest and most painful sessions.

    PS. Non-empty nest here, so both my sex and DD drive are up and unfulfilled. In that regard, Dan, this week's story was extra arousing! I'm glad you and your wife connected so intensely! I'm a little jealous!

    CrimsonKing

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    1. CK, you do point out one reason that I think spanking in anger was not a thing for us during the first decade and more of our DD relationship -- there typically was not a convenient time when others were not around.

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    2. CK, I too have experienced a spanking where her anger seemed to ramp up during the spanking. That is not a very good feeling at all, since who knows how far both the anger and the spanking are going to go!

      -ZM

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  4. Like the above poster, my Dominant Mistress/Life Partner, does not punish in anger....or at least does not let it show. She will expound a few lines as the spanking continues, like 'I hope you are learning from this" or 'here are some extra to be sure this is effective'.
    I will say, unlike Dan, the shut down has not changed our DD or its procedures at all. Spankings have been given as warranted.

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  5. Dan,
    "Do displays of anger and emotion help establish your role and your authority? Or, do your spankings tend to be more business-like and controlled?"

    Yes, to both questions. My husband knows when I am angry, and he knows what might be in store for him. I don't like to physically punish him, beyond a swat, when I'm angry. We have discipline sessions for that purpose. They are controlled. When nothing has happened that deserves punishment, sessions are playful and erotic. I don't punish him for every little thing but when he deserves punishment, he gets it. I took the cane to him over a week ago, on the 16th. He'd been disobedient and smart mouthed. What hurt me even more was that I had ordered an expensive collectible he wanted just before he misbehaved. I control the money too. He knew he was in trouble when he reported to the basement that evening by the look on my face. He hadn't felt the cane in a little while. My husband felt 40 strokes of the cane, in two groups of 20. Some were hard. I know it hurt by the beads of perspiration on the top of his head. That's why I gave him a break after 20 stokes. I felt bad but now that we're diving into a stronger FLR I won’t tolerate disobedience. He got lecturing during and after his punishment. His bottom looked like it was very sore, and he said it was. He admitted that I finally got through to him and he'll go out of his way not to treat me like he did again. We went away this weekend and he cooked great meals and lavished me with affection and pampering.

    I seem to have unintentionally chased him off from commenting. LH are his initials. Maybe he feels embarrassed. I'm sure he will at some point.
    Good topic.
    CarolH.

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    1. Thanks, Carol. Though, it does sound like you were angry, or at least hurt, during the session.

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    2. Dan,
      Well, I guess I was more hurt. To really jump into a FLR there are many other things than just financial control and spankings. Some of those "things" are outside the scope of this blog and I won't go there. I have been indulging my husband, and while we've both enjoy our activities (well, some he might not enjoy at the moment) he's realizing that I'm not going to be a part time Dominant. I asked him for one simple thing when he had gone out to run errands and I got push back, complaining, huffing and puffing. He was "snippy" (to borrow a word from you), defiant, and he got smart with me. It wasn't just one time. It went on. He wasn't just in a bad mood for a day.

      You might remember I took his bonus. I can. I'm boss. He asked for this relationship. I'm also fair. I purchased him a collectible. I won't go into what it was, but it was something he wanted. It cost in the hundreds of dollars. Many wives in vanilla marriages would complain. I bought it. My husband does A LOT for me, so I don't regret buying it. I wasn't happy how he treated me, and I decided to make him regret it.

      I feel bad but we both feel it was a reset for us. He said he knows I mean business and he must accept my authority. If his improved and more submissive behavior is any indication, my message got through loud and clear. My husband claims he's never been happier, and he can sit comfortably again (lol). It seemed good came out of our session.
      CarolH.

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  6. My wife spanks me in anger, and also holds it at times.
    if in anger she will have me pull myself until I have came before she paddles my bottom red raw. if sh holds it, I will stand in the corner before she paddles me raw, then stands me in the corner and lets rip with the anger then paddles me again... Either way I'm in hell...

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  7. Dan,
    It sounds like you finally got what you have always wanted in a DD relationship: nonconsensual punishment. It would be interesting to hear how you feel a few days later.

    For us, since most paddlings are reminders to behave in the future, they are controlled and somewhat unemotional. However, I feel very strong emotions afterwards when he kisses me on the cheek and thanks me. The emotion is a deep sense of intimacy and love.

    Then (before COVID) he often hands me the paddle and heads off for work without a word. I hold the paddle and watch his receding behind that I have just lit up. And I feel a most comforting sense of authority!
    Liz

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    1. "It sounds like you finally got what you have always wanted in a DD relationship: nonconsensual punishment. It would be interesting to hear how you feel a few days later." As I said to Glen, above, it probably goes too far to say it was non-consensual, but it came close to my consent being largely irrelevant to her in any material sense. A few days later, I'm still kind of processing it. We've both been relatively busy, so there hasn't been a substantial change in our usual dynamic. But, I do think I have been more careful about what I say to her and how I say it.

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  8. When I think back about my DWC experiences over the years with Aunt Kay, the times she spanked in anger are definitely the ones that come back in the most vivid detail.

    For me, those lickings were the ultimate no-nonsense, old fashioned discipline.

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    1. Exactly. The reality of the anger kind of cuts through all the fantasy and erotic element that otherwise always surrounds a spanking session.

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  9. Sounds like Rutgers/New Jersey style.

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  10. It seems to me a common ideal is a woman who lets her anger inspire her punishment, but still manages to be as much in control of herself as she is of her man.
    And that's why we can trust them so much!
    CrimsonKing

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  11. I suppose you could say I keep it bottled up because usually I can't discipline him right away. Usually I have to schedule a Disciplinary Session for him. Even if he does something I'm going to discipline him "right away" for, it still usually takes him and me both at least an hour to get ready for a Disciplinary Session.

    Showing anger and emotion is effective as long as I don't to it every time. Sometimes, speaking in a calm and restrained voice when I'm lecturing him on his misbehvior or disobedience is more effective than speaking to him sharply. Sometimes he gets a lecture, sometimes he gets a scolding. I make sure that whatever I do, I don't necessarily let my tone match the severity of the discipline I'm going to apply to his bare bottom.

    I don't say much while I have him across my lap the first 2 times during a Disciplinary Session. About halfway thru the third trip across my lap, I will start saying things and asking questions. Also, when I'm giving him a tawsing or paddling his bare bottom while he's not across my lap, I say things and ask questions. During those times, I always speak sharply to him. When I send him to the corner after the Disciplinary Session, I always let him hear my anger.

    "GET IN THAT CORNER NOW! NOSE IN THE CORNER! I SAID, NOSE IN THE CORNER!! DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH YOUR BOTTOM! KEEP THOSE HANDS FOLDED IN FRONT OF YOU!"

    I use certain words and changes in my voice, whether I'm lecturing him or scolding him to let him know he's being disciplined.

    One thing I'm trying to work on is using the prespanking lecture or scolding to bring tears before he's actually getting spanked. He wasn't spanked as a child, but my brother and me were. Usually, we were crying before we even got the spanking because we knew what was coming and didn't want it. Husband knows what's coming, but hasn't "pre cried" his spanking yet. Since mother doesn't just know I spank him, she's actually seen him get one a few times, I might ask her if she and father used to lecture or scold us in a certain way just to get the tears flowing fast.

    One of the purposes of Discipline is to make the offender regret what he did. I want to see the regret and tears before he's even actually spanked would show me some regret.

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    1. I hate this spell checker. It spelled my name wrong and I didn't catch it. I spell my name Cecilia, not Cecelia.

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    2. Miss Cecilia,
      You wrote: "One of the purposes of Discipline is to make the offender regret what he did. I want to see the regret and tears before he's even actually spanked would show me some regret". I imagine quite a few disciplinarians wish to see that regret before actual corporal punishment begins, whether accompanied with tears or just sincere repentance. Both women who have disciplined me said something similar more than once – paraphrasing my wife: I want you to be sorry not because you are getting a spanking but for what you did. I have never experienced pre-spanking tears (probably was close a few times), but I certainly was made to feel real regret and remorse before the spanking started. Those times that has occurred my wife made me feel deeply ashamed of what I had done and put me in a mental state where I actually wanted the spanking to begin. This has not happened often, but I think it is the result of the emotions she expressed when scolding me as well as my offense. Good luck with it. It is a very memorable experience for both husband and wife
      Alan

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    3. Hi Alan and Cecilia,
      I think this feeling remorse before spanking is exactly where scolding fits in. She doesn't often do this, but sometimes she has just went on and on and on with the scolding before, and I just feel smaller and smaller and smaller. While I know it is going to hurt more than words can describe adequately, still I wanted her to get started with the punishment soon just so the scolding part would be largely over (though much of the time, she also scolds some during the course of the spanking).

      -ZM

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    4. Danielle here:

      While I have never scolded my husband to tears before a spanking, I agree with Cecilia on the importance of scolding. It gives me great satisfaction to give Wayne a thorough dressing down before and during a spanking, especially when I remember how argumentative any criticism used to make him in pre-FLR days. I want him to feel ashamed of himself when he has annoyed me enough to punish him. Sometimes scolding is enough to put him in his place and I don’t even have to spank him. Other times what could have ended with a scolding progresses to a spanking if my words alone don’t appear to have brought about a penitent frame of mind.

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  12. >>>>Ladies, do you keep your anger at your husband bottled up? Or, so you sometimes cut loose and let him know how he’s made you feel?<<<

    I don’t bottle up anger. Once an accumulation of annoyances reaches a tipping point, I spank my husband to adjust his attitude. On the rare occasion he does or says something that makes me truly angry, I let him know. In that case, I don’t hold back from yelling at him, and I use the strap which he really hates. An angry strapping isn’t a long drawn out ordeal. It doesn’t have to be because he can’t take much of it.

    >>> Do displays of anger and emotion help establish your role and your authority. Or, do your spankings tend to be more business-like and controlled?<<<

    Yes, they do establish my authority. Wayne is always humble and penitent afterwards, and I like the feeling of being in control and blowing off steam.

    Danielle

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    1. "Wayne is always humble and penitent afterwards, and I like the feeling of being in control and blowing off steam." I like your style Danielle! To me, I just like it better if she is getting off on it somewhat and enjoying the rush of power. I much, much prefer that a more clinical approach. I think that a lot of disciplinary wives DO relish the power, but few have what it takes to admit it.

      -ZM

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    2. ZM, I don't see why any disciplinary wife would be reluctant to admit to enjoying the power and the benefits that come with the role. Maybe it is all the more satisfying to me because I used to feel that my husband didn't take me as seriously as he should. He would never admit to having sexist attitudes, but he did. There was a time when I used to get angry about that, but it was an impotent anger because saying how I felt would just make him argumentative. When I remember that, I enjoy the one sidedness of the "discussions" we have with his pants around his knees.
      Danielle

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    3. "I enjoy the one sidedness of the "discussions" we have with his pants around his knees." Well put!

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    4. Danielle wrote: "I don't see why any disciplinary wife would be reluctant to admit to enjoying the power and the benefits that come with the role" It would be interesting to survey a sample of disciplinary wives and see how they feel about acknowledging the power shifting that happens. I know both women who have exercised authority over me have been openly enthusiastic about it. My former girlfriend referred to it as "leveling the playing field" and my wife just likes to remind me that "your ass is mine" But however a women might think about it or label it, the "power and the benefits" as Danielle puts it are central to any DD relationship
      Alan

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    5. Danielle, Alan,
      "I don't see why any disciplinary wife would be reluctant to admit to enjoying the power and the benefits that come with the role."

      I agree with Danielle. Now, I don't believe anyone should be forced to submit. I do believe when one person wants to submit and the other is willing to lead, then as long as the relationship isn't destructive and both people enjoy it then it's fine. I'm in charge and we have a DD and FLR marriage, and there are many benefits to me, and to him. If my husband didn't really revel in all this, I wouldn't force it on him. He defers to me and he says he loves it. I have the last word and even control the money. There's a sexual component to this obviously. Discipline is a turn on, though not when it happens. Tomorrow morning, I'll wake up to coffee brought to me in bed, something I recently asked for. He told me he's planning to make us omelets for breakfast and then we're going upstate. I can share here, anonymously, but the one person I’d like to share it with if I could would be my sister. She’s never understand it. There is "power and benefits" without question.
      CarolH.

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    6. Danielle, when I think about FLR, what I want to imagine is being in your husband’s shoes. I can’t say what the reality would be like, but that’s the dynamic I am drawn to. It seems when he gets punished, there is no game playing going on. He’s in trouble, and as Dan was saying, it may be consensual but, in the moment, that becomes almost irrelevant. It must be like boarding a train. The agreements are in the background setting the stage for discipline, but now that the train is leaving the station, it’s not stopping until it gets to its destination. I know my wife is conducting this trip because she is genuinely upset, angry, disappointed or what have you, and she is focused on what’s ahead, the modification of behavior and attitude. My desire for this, at the moment, is not her concern. I like that the emotion comes from a real place of angst, where males in your life have been privileged, spoiled, arrogant, sexist, and now you are in a position to correct that in a way that leaves no doubt it has been corrected. You better believe he will take you seriously, and that is the wielding of real power. Reading about Dan’s latest experience, I can understand why it was so special. We’re attracted to our wives, or we would not have gotten married, but when she shows that strength and independent will to take control and to discipline with spanking, it leaves a golden aura around her that will glow forever, taking the attraction to another level altogether.

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    7. I don't really want power over my husband. We have a traditional marriage and he is the head of the household. But I do want him to be the best husband he can be, and he has ceded authority to me to help curb his arrogance with corporal punishment. It is a limited authority and we both want it that way.
      Has his arrogance angered me at times, and has that added force to my swing? Yes, surely. Have I felt a rush of power when he is apologizing and promising to improve his behavior? Definitely. But I don't feel a great desire to spread that power into other areas of our lives. Though subtly it has leaked over. If I ask him for coffee in bed, he gets up and does it because that's what good husbands do. Would he have done it with a "Yes Dear" before the paddlings started? Maybe not. Do I enjoy that subtle change in our roles? Yes, I truly do.
      Liz

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    8. That power and authority naturally grows as it is exercised. It is very reciprocal.The more you command ( or exercise it), the more he obeys ( or responds to your authority.Ours has grown over time to a handful of items ( first suggested by Aunt Kay) to today's "anytime, anywhere for any reason I decide" That seems to be the natural path of DD.
      Alan

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    9. It doesn't surprise me at all that power grows as it is exercised. Lots of people (myself included) have reservations about exercising power, but I can understand how doing so could come to feel very natural and right.

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    10. Danielle here:

      Alan, your former girlfriend’s comment about DD “levelling the playing field” hits home for me. That may seem strange since I have so much power over my husband now. But the fact is that he has always been the main breadwinner, and even in retirement he brings more money to the table than I do working part time. I sometimes wonder whether he would be able to accept being so thoroughly under my thumb if we weren’t both aware of his financial contribution to our lifestyle. No matter how much I may humble him, he can take pride in that, I think.

      Carol, like you I am comfortable with the advantages I derive from FLR because I feel that my husband is benefiting as much as me. I don’t feel guilty about getting what I want out of it because I know that I am giving my husband what he needs. I get what you are saying about wishing you could share it with your sister. I don’t have a sister. I sometimes wish I did. But it felt good when I was finally able to reveal the nature of my FLR to my best friend and my sister-in-law.

      Brett, I think my husband knows that discipline is real because it IS totally real. He has consented to being spanked or punished in any other way I choose, and that consent underlies everything I do. But in the moment I am meting out discipline, I don’t feel constrained by any need for consent. I do what feels right to me. But in one way, I think my disciplinary methods wouldn’t satisfy the needs of some of the men who post here. When I punish my husband, I draw on maternal instincts I honed from raising two boys. That’s why I don’t limit my disciplinary toolbox to just spanking. And when I do spank, I don’t go overboard. I know some of the guys here feel that a spanking isn’t real unless it’s brutally long and hard. I would have trouble doing that because it would be contrary to my maternal instinct. Maybe I can explain it this way: spanking in a way that would feel abusive to me if my husband was actually a minor and the spanking was non consensual would feel abusive to me even with his consent. For me the punishment has to fit the crime, and I am guided by my own feelings about that.

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    11. Danielle,
      "I am comfortable with the advantages I derive from FLR because I feel that my husband is benefiting as much as me. I don’t feel guilty about getting what I want out of it because I know that I am giving my husband what he needs."

      I've often wondered if people might think a DD and FLR marriage was cruel. You've probably wondered it too. Then, you see a husband very happy in the relationship (maybe not during discipline). He's happily doing things like cooking, housework, and deferring his wife. Then, you know it really isn't cruel at all if that's he wants. I haven't lifted a finger in weeks. Right now, he's making dinner and I was watching the news.

      It's good your friend and sister-in-law know. There's one woman my husband and I both know well. We've all three been friends for years. My husband and I believe she's figured out the nature of our relationship because of one side of a cell phone conversation she heard and general comments. I don't think it worries my husband anymore. Perhaps one day I'll out him if I can test the waters.

      Like you, I also punish my husband in other ways. He was recently forbidden to use the internet for a week. When he was running errands another time I made him text me his location and status in 30 minute intervals with the threat of real discipline if he failed (except for driving or unless he had a very good reason). Just recently he was given a standing order to answer my text message promptly (he better have a very good excuse if he fails). Luckily, he's a boss in work and should be able to comply with orders from his boss at home. His last discipline session was painful and uncomfortable for him, but he admitted he needed it and has he's been an absolute dream. I'll miss him whenever he returns to working in his office. I was so angered how he acted I told him he also lost bedroom privileges when I travel or visit my sister overnight. Those nights he's going to spend in the guest room. I read about a woman who did that to her submissive husband. I think it improved my husband's attitude and he certainly will know from it that my control is present even when I'm not.
      Have a great weekend.
      CarolH.

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    12. Danielle wrote: "When I punish my husband, I draw on maternal instincts I honed from raising two boys. That’s why I don’t limit my disciplinary toolbox to just spanking. And when I do spank, I don’t go overboard."

      That fits perfectly with the parental discipline I imagine, taken from my own upbringing. Discipline was safe and effective growing up because it wasn’t about abuse. In fact, I always felt like my parents were completely in control of what they were doing, and that they never lost sight of what was best for me. I certainly did not like what they thought was best for me, especially if it was a spanking, but it made a huge difference to know the degree of severity would be in accordance with what a loving and responsible parent would employ. What exactly that degree of severity is might not match from parent to parent, but what matters is that it’s within the realm of what is safe for a boy, and is not determined by what a masochist might want. If what you do is based on genuine maternal instinct, and from the real world experience of raising boys, then I can think of nothing better.

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    13. Danielle and Brett, this makes total sense to me, particularly if the goal is to bring about real behavior change.

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    14. "But in one way, I think my disciplinary methods wouldn’t satisfy the needs of some of the men who post here. When I punish my husband, I draw on maternal instincts I honed from raising two boys. That’s why I don’t limit my disciplinary toolbox to just spanking. And when I do spank, I don’t go overboard. I know some of the guys here feel that a spanking isn’t real unless it’s brutally long and hard." Danielle, I don't really know whether many men here feel a spanking must be "brutally long and hard." I think it's all relative, and as you said, the punishment needs to fit the crime. If my wife wanted me to do a better job of taking out the garbage, I think 10 quick swats with a paddle in the kitchen could reinforce that message quite effectively. But, in that situation the behavior to be changed and the offense committed is pretty minor. For more substantial offenses, I think some of us need more substantial punishments in order to really feel a sense of accountability. Finally, for those for whom really breaking down and getting to that state of catharsis where real tears and surrender occur, it does seem like some men need a really long spanking in order to get over the internal resistance they feel to giving in like that. In 15 or so years of DD, I've never gotten there even with pretty hard spankings.

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    15. Hi Liz. It's interesting the extent to which, on the surface, the first and last sentences of your comment seem to be at odds. But, maybe it's as simple as even those who do not desire power get an emotional benefit from it once they have it.

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    16. Dan, what you say about the power of a punishment that feels like real accountability, breaks us down and brings about a catharsis is probably what draws many of us to discipline. The level of severity to achieve that varies from person to person, and every one acting as a disciplinarian has their own limits and sensibilities. So I have to ask myself what do I think would be most important to me. I think if the genuine intent is there, I’m more interested in my wife operating within her boundaries than her stretching to reach what she believes I want. That strikes me (no pun) as parental. What she decides to be best is the right way to go. What she feels is at the center of this. I can see where if she is stretched to her limits, then it will be quite difficult emotionally for me as well. It’s also the case that I’m not what I think of as a masochist, so achieving something that feels like real punishment doesn’t put her in a position where it’s a very demanding physical chore. There’s a stronger sense of humility when the realization is that it doesn’t take brutality to influence behavior and to exercise effective control.

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  13. Dan,
    You said, "It’s not just me who saw this as a possible turning point. She said afterward that this was the first time she had spanked me when she was feeling real anger and the first time she really cut loose when lecturing me."

    Do you think this sheltering played a huge part in this, or the stress from sheltering?
    I know it seems to have prompted changes in my own marriage, with my husband desiring a far stronger FLR, not that I'm complaining. I'm sorry, I was self-absorbed when I posted before and got carried away about my own husband, but it seems like a reset for you and your wife definitely happened and I wanted to ask.

    Does your wife expect or demand answers during lecturing?
    My lecturing and questioning of my husband at our DD session was intense, and he formed his responses to me carefully and respectfully. I'm not sure how you respond to your wife, but when my husband and I talked the next day he admitted he was sore but not unhappy. My husband told me discipline provided clarity for him so that he truly knew I was taking on the authority and not just making him happy. He was genuinely sorry for acting up. Seeing the improvement in his behavior, it’s amazing. We both work and through the week he surprised me by preparing nice lunches a few days he had time; Paninis one day, French toast, etc. I asked him to shift the wash to the dryer. He not only did it but also folded the clothes and towels and put them away between his work and meetings.

    That leads to my last question. Do you find yourself doing more, even little things to please your wife, or perhaps even to make it up to her?

    Take care,
    CarolH.

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    1. I think the sheltering played a role, in two respects. They say "familiarity breeds contempt" and that "absence makes the heart grow fonder." I think in our case, there is some truth in both those sayings. I used to travel a lot for work, which I think was kind of a "safety valve." I can be irritable by nature, and I think my business travel meant that (a) she wasn't exposed to quite as much attitude; and (b) about the time that I was probably seriously pushing her buttons I would go on a trip for a few days. With the lockdown, there was no longer that safety valve, so her irritation built and built.

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    2. Dan,
      With that pattern, you are likely going to have an interesting "adjustment" when you head into retirement.If so, you won't be the first husband who got to experience "enhanced" DD after leaving every day outside employment
      Alan

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    3. Hi Alan. That is certainly possible. You also often hear from wives that the prospect of their husband hanging around the house all day is disquieting, and I can see why. I'm not sure what "retirement" will look like for me, but it definitely must include regular activities that take me out of the house.

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    4. Dan,
      "I think the sheltering played a role, in two respects. They say "familiarity breeds contempt" and that "absence makes the heart grow fonder.""

      True on both things; I mean about familiarity and absence. I wonder if things would have remained unchanged had there been no sheltering and lock down? I can't say for you obviously, and I can't even say for me with 100 percent certainty, but my husband got his stronger, tougher FLR out of the lock down. Seeing how his behavior over the last two+ weeks has been exemplary (and even before, though we had some bumps in the road) it agrees with him. He even shocked me by writing an impressive schedule to cover HOW he's going to continue pampering me and doing what he's doing once his office reopens! He hardly planned for anything except for work related activities. Maybe bossy wife Carol finally got through to him.

      You and your wife will have a big adjustment when you are retired. It is tough when travel and work ends and you're going to be home a lot more. My husband is the outdoors type and I told him I still plan to send him off with money in his pocket and plenty of sunblock for his head packed in his bag (lol) and let him meet up with his friends to hike, boat and camp a few times through the year when things open. He can even do this when he retires if he wants. It's to have some of my own privacy and downtime of course (and I may need it more because he's been doing more for me), and I truly want him to have a break.

      If you are irritable by nature, sometimes analytical types are like that if you are that type. Before my husband became a boss where he works, he did heavy analysis work and he was easily irritated. He seems more comfortable in this role now, and he's far calmer. You may calm down when the stress is reduced.
      Have a great week.
      CarolH

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  14. Hi Dan,
    Well, it sounds like you might have inadvertently stumbled onto just what you needed to break out of the doldrums! And great topic!

    "Men, have you pushed your wife to the point of real anger?" - She has spanked out of anger several times before, but I would have to mention 2 caveats with regard to this. First off, in each case she didn't have the opportunity to do it right when she felt the anger. Though as I said before, she has an uncanny knack to just put the feelings on hold, like they are in a box on the shelf, and then when the time comes, to take that box off the shelf and open it, and all those feelings come back with nearly the same intensity as she first felt. But this is just what we have observed. Maybe if she had been able to spank immediately, the feelings would have been much stronger? Secondly, the couple of times that this happened, we were quite new to the whole DD thing, and she was not nearly as comfortable to spank me nearly as hard or long as she currently does. We have been recently been speculating just what it might be like the next time that she has a real motive and opportunity with some strong feelings to go with it, because now she is a MUCH more capable and confident disciplinarian. I am actually a little afraid to experience what it will be like, but it is certainly inevitable, given sufficient time.

    "Does it make the discipline feel more real?" - No question, for me at least, the discipline feels a lot more real when there are some real feelings involved. And quite frankly, knowing that I have hurt her feelings and caused her to become angry is really worse than the punishment itself, no matter how bad it might be.

    "Do you feel more under her authority when she expresses that authority with real strength and angry passion?" - Again there is no question, when she expresses her feelings strongly, it makes me feel very much under her authority. And if she just gets angry and takes things into her own hands, then it does feel very imposed, and as I have said many times before, for me "imposed discipline" is almost more about the "imposed" than the actual discipline. I really liked what you said: "I can't emphasize enough how different it feels when a Disciplinary Wife takes the initiative, as opposed to just kind of accommodating or initiating only after being reminded about her authority. It is just a totally different thing when the prospect of a spanking actually feels imposed." That really resonated with me.

    -ZM

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    1. Hi ZM. Totally agree with all this. I hope you and your wife are doing well. Still locked down?

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    2. Hi Dan,
      Thankfully not quite as much! Thanks for asking! I hope you and your family are doing great as well.

      Just a few days ago they lifted the restrictions for what hours people were allowed to go out, except it is still forbidden at night time. I'm still working from home, restaurants are take-away only, and coffee shops are closed, but otherwise things are starting to return to normal. I just hope the march back towards normal will continue!

      -ZM

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  15. If She understands that the present difficult circumstances changes you and gives a little leeway to accommodate it then She should equally be given leeway in Her demonstration of anger during this lockdown. You wanted her to demonstrate Her power and for Her to correct you and you got what you needed.

    I hope that She has felt relieved to be able to lose Her temper with you and that She can see that you don't resent it or Her for doing so.

    Femsup

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  16. Hi Dan,
    I am going to respond to your original question and try to extend some of the excellent insightful comments others have made about anger and its effect both on the immediate discipline and longer term. I remember probably every time I have been punished by either my former girlfriend or wife when they were in the throes of red hot anger – and there haven’t been a ton of them. They have been rare because they usually require an unusual combination of events including privacy, especially egregious behavior and her mood. But they have happened and each and every one was scary-not because she was out of control, but the emotional tension was sky high and in contrast to most discipline I had no idea what she was going to do. As I believe Dan put it, my consent was of no issue or concern to her. She was way past that. But they were also extremely effective in sending me a message and bringing about almost immediate and long lasting behavior change. Unpacking these experiences now though, I think it was not her anger which really made it so powerful but her emotion expressed and the fact that she initiated and controlled the discipline from the beginning. No favorite position, no favorite instrument and “no mercy” She was in control and I was under control and that outflowing of emotional energy made all that happen. My point in this somewhat long digression is: that it was not so much her anger but the emotion under it and the fact that she just grabbed control and initiated it that made it so effective and now memorable. As others have said above, that emotional resonance is a powerful catalyst in a male who needs and seeks discipline in a committed relationship. It is ultimately what we need - even when, we really don’t want it at the time and maybe that is the paradox of real adult discipline
    Alan

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    1. "[I]t was not so much her anger but the emotion under it and the fact that she just grabbed control and initiated it that made it so effective and now memorable." Alan, I think this ties into some of my fascination with the maternal aspects of discipline. Mothers don't ask for permission or debate the terms of how a misbehaving son or daughter will be disciplined. She simply takes control and initiates.

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  17. I think I've mentioned before that I stopped using disciplinary measures when I was feeling angry because the end results were bordering on abuse, and THAT scared me.

    My personal choice became waiting for the anger to subside and still expressing my feelings during discipline.

    So, plan while I was angry, and execute the plan once I was feeling rational.

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