"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken." - Oscar Wilde
Hi all. Welcome back to The Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.
I'm sorry about the delayed posting. I was doing some business travel that was extended a day longer than expected. As I was sitting on a plane yesterday, I thought about how a travel-inspired delay in blogging itself spoke to last week's topic about others knowing. After the work part of my day was wrapped up, I did have time to put together a post but it would have involved posting from the airport or while sitting a plane. Where one stray look at my laptop could reveal my domestic discipline, to a complete stranger. Now, shouldn't I care little or nothing about the opinion of a complete stranger who I will never see again? Theoretically yes, but somehow it doesn't seem to work that way in real life.
While I really hate business travel and really don't enjoy airplanes much, sometimes the downtime with a glass of (bad) wine creates some space for self-reflection. It also sometimes helps me to see how seemingly separate things going on in my life may really involve some converging themes. Recently, I've had some frustrations dealing with under-performing people at work. But, some recent events and meetings have made me more open to considering whether I am causing, or at least failing to cure, some of the ongoing issues because instead of taking the problem head on and focusing on the problem, not the person, I often just get mad and seethe about it. On what seemed like a separate thread, I've been seriously contemplating a career change, to some extent because I'm just tired of the stress in my current role and, frankly, I'm tired of the separation that I feel leading a team puts between me and the team members. Then, I was reading a Zen-oriented book that talked about the false lives we end up leading when we create false identities that we come to believe are who we really are. Usually, we build layers of false personality because inside we are vulnerable and afraid of getting hurt if we show who we really are. Then, a week ago, I read a story by our own KD Pierre entitled Pride, http://mattmansfigures.homestead.com/colstory.html, that involves a disciplinary wife taking fairly dramatic action to get her husband's self-destructive pride under control by spanking him in front of, and letting him be spanked by, a person with whom he was having pride-based pissing contests. While it hurt his pride at the time, her whole purpose was helping him get his pride under control because it was dysfunctional and self-destructive.
Now, while I didn't see the pattern at the time, this all seems to coalesce to some extent around last week's topic about being more open about these lifestyles. Or, perhaps the topic of being more open is part of a larger pull I am feeling to be more authentic in several aspects of my life, with fewer ego or pride-based walls between me and others That includes being less in control at work so that I can be a more genuine and open person with the people around me, some of whom clearly feel intimated by me now. It also is reflected in wanting to have more open and less topical conversations with some of the commenters on this blog. And, yes, it is reflected in wanting my wife to take more control so I can take less and in doing so, hopefully, experience more of that paradoxical sense of freedom that comes from reduced choices.
Well, that was certainly a long and philosophical amble down a meandering road on this Sunday, but that too is part of being more open and less structured and controlled, right? And, if some of the philosophizing turns off the people who stop by only because they just want to see something, anything, that serves their spanking fetish -- good.
Now, I really do have a topic for this week, though it is an extension of last week's. It also dovetails with some of the above musings. Based on last weeks comments, with a very few exceptions it does seem that most of us are very, very reluctant to have others know that we are in these relationships in which our wives spank us and do so for disciplinary purposes. My follow-up question for this week is, which of those aspects of our relationships--spanking itself or spanking as punishment--is the source of our consternation about people knowing? Do we find spanking itself embarrassing, or is it that our spouses are in control of it and spank us not for erotic purposes but to punish bad behavior?
As we discussed last week, we are talking about this after the phenomenon that was 50 Shades. There is at least some argument that the success of those books and the movies is an indication that many people out there are pro-kink and, specifically, pro-spanking. Yet, most of us still are very resistant to talk about our own spanking relationship and very concerned about people knowing about them. So, what is that about if 50 Shades shows people wouldn't care or would be supportive? Or, is the acceptability of 50 Shades confined to that one scenario -- M/f and in a very sexualized context? Is M/f spanking socially acceptable but not F/m? Even if it is erotic and not punishment? Or, is it the disciplinary aspect that we don't want to be generally known?
I honestly don't have an answer on this one, but when I play out the scenarios in my head and try to sense nuances in my emotional response, the answer seems to be that it is the combination of spanking and punishment that I'm reluctant to reveal, while neither separately evokes quite the same emotional response. I don't really have any relationships in which people openly discuss their sex lives, but if the topic of 50 Shades and erotic spanking came up over drinks at a party, I'm not sure I would feel overwhelmingly embarrassed about revealing that we have done erotic spanking (though in truth we did only for a very short period of time many years ago). Perhaps more surprisingly, I don't feel that psychologically threatened by my wife behaving in a way that is more openly "large and in charge," even if it lets people know that she is the dominant party in our relationship. And, if our recent poll on this is any indication, a lot of the men who come here feel similarly and want their wives to be more openly dominant.
Yet, I do find the thought of people knowing that my wife spanks me for real punishment stressful, and in a way that neither spanking itself nor having a dominant wife are separately. I'm not sure what that is about. I do think that a huge amount of my stress around people knowing is work-related. I work in a very conservative, traditional, and competitive profession. I do think that in my particular field, there would be blowback if my status as a disciplined husband were widely known. The thought of extended family knowing also causes me some angst. But, I'm still not sure why it is the combination of spanking plus the FLR aspect of our relationship that adds a special level of such angst. Thoughts?
Have a great week.
Hi all. Welcome back to The Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.
I'm sorry about the delayed posting. I was doing some business travel that was extended a day longer than expected. As I was sitting on a plane yesterday, I thought about how a travel-inspired delay in blogging itself spoke to last week's topic about others knowing. After the work part of my day was wrapped up, I did have time to put together a post but it would have involved posting from the airport or while sitting a plane. Where one stray look at my laptop could reveal my domestic discipline, to a complete stranger. Now, shouldn't I care little or nothing about the opinion of a complete stranger who I will never see again? Theoretically yes, but somehow it doesn't seem to work that way in real life.
While I really hate business travel and really don't enjoy airplanes much, sometimes the downtime with a glass of (bad) wine creates some space for self-reflection. It also sometimes helps me to see how seemingly separate things going on in my life may really involve some converging themes. Recently, I've had some frustrations dealing with under-performing people at work. But, some recent events and meetings have made me more open to considering whether I am causing, or at least failing to cure, some of the ongoing issues because instead of taking the problem head on and focusing on the problem, not the person, I often just get mad and seethe about it. On what seemed like a separate thread, I've been seriously contemplating a career change, to some extent because I'm just tired of the stress in my current role and, frankly, I'm tired of the separation that I feel leading a team puts between me and the team members. Then, I was reading a Zen-oriented book that talked about the false lives we end up leading when we create false identities that we come to believe are who we really are. Usually, we build layers of false personality because inside we are vulnerable and afraid of getting hurt if we show who we really are. Then, a week ago, I read a story by our own KD Pierre entitled Pride, http://mattmansfigures.homestead.com/colstory.html, that involves a disciplinary wife taking fairly dramatic action to get her husband's self-destructive pride under control by spanking him in front of, and letting him be spanked by, a person with whom he was having pride-based pissing contests. While it hurt his pride at the time, her whole purpose was helping him get his pride under control because it was dysfunctional and self-destructive.
Now, while I didn't see the pattern at the time, this all seems to coalesce to some extent around last week's topic about being more open about these lifestyles. Or, perhaps the topic of being more open is part of a larger pull I am feeling to be more authentic in several aspects of my life, with fewer ego or pride-based walls between me and others That includes being less in control at work so that I can be a more genuine and open person with the people around me, some of whom clearly feel intimated by me now. It also is reflected in wanting to have more open and less topical conversations with some of the commenters on this blog. And, yes, it is reflected in wanting my wife to take more control so I can take less and in doing so, hopefully, experience more of that paradoxical sense of freedom that comes from reduced choices.
Well, that was certainly a long and philosophical amble down a meandering road on this Sunday, but that too is part of being more open and less structured and controlled, right? And, if some of the philosophizing turns off the people who stop by only because they just want to see something, anything, that serves their spanking fetish -- good.
Now, I really do have a topic for this week, though it is an extension of last week's. It also dovetails with some of the above musings. Based on last weeks comments, with a very few exceptions it does seem that most of us are very, very reluctant to have others know that we are in these relationships in which our wives spank us and do so for disciplinary purposes. My follow-up question for this week is, which of those aspects of our relationships--spanking itself or spanking as punishment--is the source of our consternation about people knowing? Do we find spanking itself embarrassing, or is it that our spouses are in control of it and spank us not for erotic purposes but to punish bad behavior?
As we discussed last week, we are talking about this after the phenomenon that was 50 Shades. There is at least some argument that the success of those books and the movies is an indication that many people out there are pro-kink and, specifically, pro-spanking. Yet, most of us still are very resistant to talk about our own spanking relationship and very concerned about people knowing about them. So, what is that about if 50 Shades shows people wouldn't care or would be supportive? Or, is the acceptability of 50 Shades confined to that one scenario -- M/f and in a very sexualized context? Is M/f spanking socially acceptable but not F/m? Even if it is erotic and not punishment? Or, is it the disciplinary aspect that we don't want to be generally known?
I honestly don't have an answer on this one, but when I play out the scenarios in my head and try to sense nuances in my emotional response, the answer seems to be that it is the combination of spanking and punishment that I'm reluctant to reveal, while neither separately evokes quite the same emotional response. I don't really have any relationships in which people openly discuss their sex lives, but if the topic of 50 Shades and erotic spanking came up over drinks at a party, I'm not sure I would feel overwhelmingly embarrassed about revealing that we have done erotic spanking (though in truth we did only for a very short period of time many years ago). Perhaps more surprisingly, I don't feel that psychologically threatened by my wife behaving in a way that is more openly "large and in charge," even if it lets people know that she is the dominant party in our relationship. And, if our recent poll on this is any indication, a lot of the men who come here feel similarly and want their wives to be more openly dominant.
Yet, I do find the thought of people knowing that my wife spanks me for real punishment stressful, and in a way that neither spanking itself nor having a dominant wife are separately. I'm not sure what that is about. I do think that a huge amount of my stress around people knowing is work-related. I work in a very conservative, traditional, and competitive profession. I do think that in my particular field, there would be blowback if my status as a disciplined husband were widely known. The thought of extended family knowing also causes me some angst. But, I'm still not sure why it is the combination of spanking plus the FLR aspect of our relationship that adds a special level of such angst. Thoughts?
Have a great week.
Joe2 here,
ReplyDeleteMay I make a suggestion, if not for the next discussion, then maybe later? How about a topic of spanking instruments that “hide in plain site?” If you have done this topic before, please disregard.
Since my wife and I have kids and a desire to not to share this unique aspect of our relationship, we use things that do not infer spanking. Ours are: a bath brush (thanks to a suggestion from Mistress Merry), a geriatric shoe horn (stainless steel and 18 inches long) and a nylon rod (of uncertain origin and purpose).
One unique thing that I have done is create attachments for the bath brush. The bath brush is thin and light, so I have made some wooden ovals with different textures. The ovals are about 3/8” thick. Some have holes and some have ridges. Before a spanking, I put double sided tape on the brush and apply the oval. After the spanking, the wooden oval is removed and returned to the garage, the tape is thrown away, and the brush goes back in the bathroom.
Thank you for having this blog. It is really unique. I am certain that it requires a significant amount of time on your part.
OBTW, don’t let the trolls bother you. Like flies, they are a part of life and just come in different sizes, shapes, and colors.
Hi Joe 2. We actually have done this one relatively recently, but I'm happy to have people weigh in again. We too have a bathbrush that is openly displayed. But, our is pretty heavy wood, with a long handle. It needs no augmentation to make it a very, very painful instrument.
DeleteMy pleasure Joe2!
DeleteOr how do men request DD when they feel it's time? Just ask, send an email, or something non-verbal like leaving a paddle on the bed and waiting for what happens next?
ReplyDeleteCrimsonKing
We've done this one before, but it probably has been a while. Might be worth trying it again.
DeleteHi Dan
ReplyDeleteI believe we are a long road away from FLR or FM spanking becoming accepted and tolerated by society .
There is still a very strong stigma attached to a man being spanked by a woman.
Like you it would be catastrophic for me of work colleagues in particular or family knew.
My fear is they would not respect you the way they did before.
FM spanking is really not as mainstream or understood yet.
Hopefully that will change sooner rather than later.
Interestingly that has not been my experience. But again, you have to know your audience.
DeleteGlen, I agree that F/m spanking is not nearly as mainstream as the M/f variety, though I'm not sure that M/f *disciplinary* spanking is mainstream either. This is the core point I was raising, which so far no one has really addressed, i.e. is the stigma about the spanking, or about the discipline?
DeleteAs long as it is consensual I believe MF spanking is considered acceptable in the mainstream.However there is still a blur as to what constitutes consenual.I don't think the distinction between spanking and discipline is a factor in the stigma.
DeleteAs spankos we need to educate and inform the vanilla community a lot more.
Some FLR-ish practices, like Tantra, Karezza and even male chastity, have had minor boomlets of attention. I could see some celebrity couple touting their F/M spankings (if only for the publicity).
ReplyDeleteBut I don't expect it would become a fad. And no, I don't want to be the poster boy, either!
CrimsonKing
You're right that if it ever catches on, it will almost certainly be because a celebrity couple releases a sex tape or Oprah includes it in her book club.
DeleteJoe2 here,
DeleteIt has happened, but by accident or reflexively. Ice Skater Kristi Yamaguchi's husband outed himself on "Family Feud." Please see the following link: https://www.cinemablend.com/television/1548099/watch-the-awkward-moment-when-kristi-yamaguchis-husband-brings-up-spanking-on-family-feud
That's hilarious!
DeleteWow, that's an awesome link - he's a lucky man if he's being disciplined by Kristi Yamaguchi (a long-term crush of mine, in fact!)
DeleteCrimsonKing
I think Glenmore hit on the key points quite well. It's absolutely a societal stigma. We're the "stronger sex" and expected to act as such. Part of the lack of respect would be because, given typically the guy is physically bigger and stronger, it means he will have acquiesced to being treated that way. God if they only knew the process we had to go through asking, begging, explaining, prodding her to finally do it...LOL. To compound it, there is an undertone of "age related" aspect to it... children are spanked.....so he's not only not in charge but also gets treated like a child and apparently is OK w that. And lets not forget there's the other side of it. We also have to be cognizant of the perception of the wife in the scenario....she'd be looked at as a total bitch or shrew. That is actually something my wife has had issues w in doing this even in private between the 2 of us....she doesn't want to be that "mean" person. But the truly ironic part is, I think that while people outwardly would react w distain, put off, even disgusted by the notion publicly......you know many would never admit that deep down they think it is great...appealing .....valuable etc etc
ReplyDeleteAll good points. And, I do think you have come the closest to actually addressing the topic, which was more about what precisely is it that is embarrassing or humiliating about disciplinary spanking. Is it the spanking itself in the F/m context? Or, is it the discipline or female dominance it entails. I do think you are getting to the nub of the question -- it may not be the female dominance but it's flipside, male submissiveness. It's a subtle distinction, but there nonetheless. Men are supposed to be tough and strong and commanding and in charge, and submitting to a woman, or to a man for that matter, is something that goes against the grain.
DeleteI do think that if women are ever going to reach leadership parity in society they absolutely must get over being concerned about being seen as a bitch if they act in charge. Notice I said "get over being concerned about it" not "get over thinking people will see them as a bitch." People on the receiving end of taking orders from a strong woman very well may see her as a bitch. On the other hand, I am very confident that my male underlings sometimes see me as an asshole when I am telling them to do something. There is not one bit of difference in a male leader being seen as an asshole or a female leader being seen as a bitch, except this . . . the female cares more and will dumb herself down as a result.
Darren made a good point about FM spanking being compared to spanking children.One of the reasons many wives do not want to spank their husbands is because they don't want another 'kid' to discipline."You are my husband not my kid so I can't spank you."
DeleteD- To put a finer point.... yes....the embarrassing part is as a male being seen in any way as submissive!!! The spanking is just a tool. It would be just as embarrassing if your friends were to be aware that she had told you're "not allowed " to go out with them for a beer because you're being punished....or at home being sent to your room for misbehaving.
DeleteAs for the issue of her being concerned about being seen as a bitch........ clearly, yes woman who take charge can be seen that way. However, to be fair I think that especially in a DD role as a wife it's about being in charge without ACTING like a bitch. The tone and attitude she has doesnt need to be "bitchy" or offensive....for many it often can be more of "i'm sorry to have to do this ...but you know u have brought this on yourself". Granted it can be different in the workplace. The biggest mistake I think some woman make working their way up in corp America , and I say this working as a Sr Executive in an International company, is they act the way they think a man would act. We all have had bossed that were DICKS, that's a personality trait. We've also all had bosses that were the greatest guys but when you screwed up OH MAN you knew you were going to pay the price for it.....then it was over and done with.
Honestly, I think being grounded from having a beer with them might be even MORE embarrassing, because the spanking element might be blown off as just some kind of kinky sex game. To me, as the situation becomes less kinky and less sexual, the chance of ridicule becomes even more likely.
DeleteRegarding executives, there is all the class of really nice guy/gal,and totally ineffective.
The "pay the price for it . . . then it is over and done with" seems to be one of the primary advantages to real DD.
Again, I have been open to a degree in the past and am WAY open now and Rosa and I do not experience what has been described here at all. People who know us see me as very type A and very strong-willed. I am also 6'3" and have lots of "male" hobbies. And NO ONE would ever dare to try to cast me in a subservient role....except for maybe some of our female friends-in-the-know who are playing along.
DeleteI have never had to worry about loss of respect because I think people know what I'm capable of. And any who have tried have been on the receiving end of a lesson they would probably not care to repeat. But people also know Rosa and recognize her particular strengths and how we offset each other. In that regard, the people who "know" find it a perfect fit.
And as for M/F discipline? Here? In central NJ? in 2018? The attitude here is NO MAN is going to tell ME what to do! and heaven help him if he lays a finger......let alone a paddle on someone. And f Rosa and i were M/f in our DD? Hell...THEN FOR SURE I would keep it a secret!
I think the conservative areas of the country are where the opposite occurs. It's where you have CDD and the secular societal strain of CDD. So I think M/f DD is probably more acceptable in "red states" and F/m DD is more acceptable in blue states. Every time I see a M/f DD couple online they usually fall into a mindset that would be very alien where I live.
Now again......if it's all clearly 'play'? All bets are off and anything goes.
I think that is a great point that this issue could cleave along political and political-regional lines.
DeleteOK....here's a flash back to my comments last week about my comfort to be open within the group.....KD, I didnt realize you're in Central NJ!!!...I'm north west Philly burbs! (OMG....I'm OUT....lol...lol)
DeleteSounds like you boys need to get together for a beer.
DeleteMy daughter and son-in-law live in Philly, not far from the Pennsylvania Hospital. I was heartbroken to find out they closed 'Eulogy' the Belgian bar and restaurant. (Dan would have LOVED that place!)
DeleteThen I hope you've tried Monk's....a stalwart!
DeleteJoe2 here,
DeleteI agree with Darren. I work in a very male centric occupation. I had an old boss who knew how to be a really nice person, but when you messed up she would fillet you with a rusty knife. We called her the Confederate Rose (really pretty but with really sharp thorns). We all respected her because she knew her job and knew how to lead.
To me bitchy is where the butt chewing is dipped in emotion and the words are chosen to to demean the other person. A significant trait of my old boss is after she sliced and diced you was she would conclude with, "Now get back to work and don't do again." Which inferred that you were properly
corrected and she still had faith in you.
Joe2 here again,
DeleteWe called her the Confederate Rose, because she had a thick Georgia accent and both sides of her family arrived in the "colonies" in the late 1600s and 1700s and almost all male members of her family that were of age (16 and above) fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy.
Dan, while FM spanking is most certainly not mainstream, it seems as though our culture is becoming more accepting .When I was growing up homosexuality was totally unacceptable . Today we see transgender and bisexuality in the media with some suggestion of greater acceptance . While Sylvia and I found 50 Shedes boring it’s a huge box office success. All that said I know that the idea of anyone knowing that Sylvia’s mother spanked me is to this day still something I wouldn’t want. For reasons I don’t fully understand I feel less embarrassed about her sisters knowing that their mom spanked me than I would be if I thought her brothers knew.
ReplyDeleteGood point about the strides made in the general acceptance of other non-traditional lifestyles and gender roles.
DeleteThere have been many strong point views expressed on this topic. I don’t really disagree with any of them in terms of a general societal reaction to knowing a particular male or males is subject to corporal punishment as correction by a wife or girlfriend. Particularly galling to many of us I suspect is that we are mostly alpha males who identify with much that is macho in masculine culture. And it’s a bitch not being able to tell a close friend about the joys of discipline in a committed relationship. So many men and relationships would benefit from it yet we are frustrated in proselytizing the benefits Worse of all many of us are inhibited from revealing our relationship in general society , really inhibited from being ourselves and forced to put on a false persona to protect ourselves ( and often our wives).
ReplyDeleteBut there is good new here. I am exposed to many young adults, 20’s to 30’s and they are on a very different trajectory. Submission to female authority is not seen as shameful to many of them and fetishes like spanking are seen mostly as harmless kinks rather than deep personality disturbances. They are experimenting much more with sex and many are not in any hurry to settle down before they are ready. I am not suggesting that emerging generation will solve all the problems enumerated above but more and more men and women are going to be permitted to express their inner persons. There ae going to be many more F/M relationship (as well as M/F and more of them are going to be “out”. I agree with the commentators who alluded to the advances gays and transsexuals have made in just a decade and I firmly believe there is much more progress coming, and coming pretty fast
Alan
Hi Alan. Glad to hear from you again.
DeleteAs my post tried to reflect, given my own current mid-life crisis around being more open and authentic, I agree the most destructive aspect of the societal approbation is that false and defensive persona we put on. Though, that is hardly limited just to DD and spanking.
As for frustrated proselytizing, I really have only one male friend who I would like to tell about DD. And, it's not because I want to share with my "bestie." It's because he is a walking, talking prototype for the "before DD" husband in a story about DD's potential for transforming a bad husband into a good one. He is not a bad person, but he often seems stuck in this 1950s Mad Men world in which he goes to work, drinks too much, loves his wife but doesn't really care if she gets hacked that he devotes himself to work and carousing more than to his family . . . He's exactly the kind of Alpha male but with potential to be a better man who might actually profit from DD. But, I don't think there is a chance in hell that he would react to it with anything but ridicule if I as another male raised it. For that reason, I have even thought about sending his wife an anonymous letter with some printouts from the DWC website and a polite suggestion that she might want to give it a try . . .
I think you are right that the younger generation will be much more open than ours. Though I also don't underestimate the tendency people have to be more open to their own kinks but less forgiving of others. The human capacity for hypocrisy also seems pretty boundless. How many congressmen do we have that have smoked pot, yet it's still in the same category as heroin in terms of illegality. But, you are right that advances on the LGBT front are probably the best indication that some of the faux moralism is finally fading away.
Dan
ReplyDeleteIn our kitchen is a cutting board that Peter made in high school. I love seeing it there as it was the first thing I used to spank him. It was in the kitchen while the kids were at their grand parents. Every now and then I take it out in front of the boys and ask Peter if he wants to slice the bread.
anna
Nice!
DeleteJoe2 here again,
DeleteIf you can tell, my family is gone for the weekend.
On to anna's comment. I have looked at cutting boards, but the surface area is too large and the handle is too short. My wife does not raise her arm above her shoulder, so these features are important.
Changing topics... I does occur to me that the conversation with the "the other person" would be very different if it was a female or a male. If it was a female, the conversation would revolve around feelings and concerns- "how does this make you feel." If it was a male, the conversation would be about how hard, how long, and what tool do you use.
What a hugely thought-provoking topic!
ReplyDeleteAs I was reading through the comments, I found myself agreeing with every comment.
As for whether the awkwardness that I would feel in telling anyone about this is due more to the disciplinary aspects or the FLR aspects, I really have no idea, I just know that it is really, really taboo! I think it is probably a healthy dose of both aspects that make it so. Much of the difficulty in answering this weeks question is actually due to the differences (and perhaps hypocrisy) between what we say we want as a society and what we actually think or believe.
First looking at the FLR aspect... As others have mentioned, traditionally, society expects men to be strong leaders, so the idea that a man could be disciplined by his wife might make him seem pretty wimpy to many, especially to other men. At the same time, we also expect and insist on women being equal (which is a very good thing). If we are all truly equal, then it should be no more surprising to have a man submitting to a woman than a woman submitting to a man. The fact a man submitting to his wife is culturally taboo tells me that we are still not even close on the equality front. Could this be the reason that the reason many of us would feel more comfortable telling a woman about our being subject to discipline? Is it because we think that most men don't REALLY view women as equals?
BTW, with regard to the “strong man” issue, I asked my wife if she feels maternal during punishments, and she said she definitely does. In everyday life, she very much wants and expects a strong husband, but when she decides it is time for punishment, she becomes the authority figure and I become very much the naughty boy. After punishment, we revert to normal.
Regarding the discipline aspect, I think that this part is probably even harder because we as a society have eschewed all forms of corporal punishment. Without making any value judgments about whether this is positive or negative, it is clear that our opinions have changed radically about any sort of physical punishment. When I was a child, it was common for children to be paddled in school if they misbehaved (my morbid fascination with this continues to this day). Also, corporal punishment was used quite extensively in the military and prisons. Now, we generally are very negative about any use of corporal punishment, with many automatically calling it abuse, even if it is consensual. This would probably be even more true in M/F disciplinary relationships. If you are just playing games and having fun, that is all good and is 50 shades-like. But if you are doing it for real, you will just get concerned, knowing looks that let you know that the listener is convinced you are being abused.
Anyway, I don't have any real insights, but sure thought the topic was interesting!
-ZM
ZM -- so much good stuff here.
Delete"Anyway, I don't have any real insights, but sure thought the topic was interesting."
Really? You've kind of been setting the bar for actually reading the topic, thinking about the topic, and responding to the topic with insightful comments. Please keep it up.
"The fact a man submitting to his wife is culturally taboo tells me that we are still not even close on the equality front. Could this be the reason that the reason many of us would feel more comfortable telling a woman about our being subject to discipline? Is it because we think that most men don't REALLY view women as equals?"
I agreed with you up until the last sentence. I don't think it has anything to do with they dynamic between men and women. I think we can confess to a woman, because she won't judge us as a man would. We men are our own fucking worst enemies.
"BTW, with regard to the “strong man” issue, I asked my wife if she feels maternal during punishments, and she said she definitely does. In everyday life, she very much wants and expects a strong husband, but when she decides it is time for punishment, she becomes the authority figure and I become very much the naughty boy. After punishment, we revert to normal."
I love it that three or four weeks after the topic, someone FINALLY responds with an honest answer on this maternal thing. Again, ZM, thank you!
"Regarding the discipline aspect, I think that this part is probably even harder because we as a society have eschewed all forms of corporal punishment. Without making any value judgments about whether this is positive or negative, it is clear that our opinions have changed radically about any sort of physical punishment. When I was a child, it was common for children to be paddled in school if they misbehaved (my morbid fascination with this continues to this day)."
I may not got into this because it is such a kettle of worms, but, we have never (well, almost never) spanked our kids. Yet, many of us on this forum were raised with corporal punishment. 40 years ago, kids did not walk into schools and shoot kids. So, as a non-spanking parent, I do wonder whether as a society we have just dropped any sense of personal responsibility and consequences, and this is what we get? Again, I don't feel personally bad about raising this, because we did not spank. But, the fact that we didn't and yet society is progressively more violent makes me question whether we were right. I do think I can conclusively say that (a) we have the lowest level of corporal punishment in generations; (b) we have the highest level of mass shootings in generations - - so spanking does not cause mass shootings. Beyond that, I really do not have a fucking clue, though I wish I did. I worried about getting jumped in the bathroom. My kids worry about getting killed walking down the hall. Not the same thing . . . at all.
Thanks, Dan, for the kind words!
DeleteI too was reluctant to open the can of worms of even mentioning school or parental punishments and I believe there is not much real value of discussing them here, since this blog is about adult domestic discipline and FLR.
At the same time, there is no doubt that our attitudes about physical punishment (at any age) have changed dramatically in our lifetimes. It is interesting because even as dominance and spanking have become much more acceptable and mainstream as sexual activities, they have become more taboo in any non-sexual context. When I was young, if anyone spoke of spanking, paddling, or whipping, it was almost certainly not in a sexual context. Now, it has been sexualized (yes, I made that word up) and simultaneously has become more acceptable!
One thing that would make it exceedingly difficult to tell others about my wife punishing me is because of the perceived sexual nature of it. And to a certain degree, I'm sure it is; even though we go to great lengths to make punishments as real as possible and in no way sexual, there is certainly a linkage in my psychological makeup between sexuality and punishment/spankings. However, even though the need might be rooted in my sexual psyche, my desire is very much for authentic punishment, not role play. As such, it shouldn't be that much different than telling someone about getting a speeding ticket, but alas it still is...
I totally agree that most of us want this lifestyle for reasons that are, if not rooted in sexuality, at least closely linked to it in some way.
DeleteIt is interesting that our attitudes toward corporal punishment have changed and that sexualized spanking has become more acceptable. Yet, paradoxically, a lot of the spanking fiction out there still focuses on school spankings and parental discipline. Similarly, the stories on the Disciplinary Wives Club website that were my introduction to domestic discipline are generally not sexualized at all. So, whatever it is we want from DD is rooted or linked to sexuality, and yet the sexual urge associated with our DD desires seems to be triggered by non-sexualized spanking scenarios.
Can I bring in a left-field aspect to this discussion? Basically what I think causes embarrassment about FLR or F/M spanking is the inherent sexism that pervades widely still and is reflected in aesthetics. For me the proof comes in when it is acceptable to talk/joke about being disciplined as a male. I will use my own limited example. So 15 years ago, if I had shared amongst my friends that I dressed my then girlfriend up in role-play (school uniform) for the benefit of spanking her (and occasionally caning her) I suspect the reaction would have been limited as aesthetically she was attractive, not as tall as me, their is a 7 year age gap and she could pull off the look. Fast forward 15 years and if she looked the same but the story was I dressed in night clothes, bathed in advance of and was put over her knee on our bed at bedtime at least twice a month I suspect their would be a stronger push-back. But she doesn't look the same, she is just as beautiful in my eyes but the truth is after 2 kids and a full career he is about 4 inches rounder in the waist and 4 stone heavier. This means the lap/knees I go over are well able for the job. Factor that into the story and I guarantee the push-back is much less because, added to her personality as known to our social circle (and mine :-)) the fact she aesthetically looks like someone capable of hauling me over her knee on the side of our bed would make for a different reaction. Just my observation and apologies I offer no answers. Cheers Good Life Mickey.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I probably have not had enough coffee today, but I'm not quite following the point on aesthetics and how it influences whether F/m spanking is or is not viewed as acceptable.
DeleteThat others will take into account asthetics as part of the analysis process when faced with the knowledge. Its wrong but IMHO it happens. Cheers GLM
DeleteThe difference between the visuals of a young, round female butt and a middle-aged man's hairy ass, both draped over someone's knee for a spanking, certainly could contribute to the relative attraction to M/f versus F/m.
DeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI wrote last week about having to choose one of three women that would be told about my wife spanking me and you asked me to let you know how things came out. I decided to post in this week's section since I guessed that no one goes back to the previous week Hope that's all right in any case, here's the update:
Well, I did it. Last night I told my wife that I think we should tell Jenny (her sister) about the spankings. She asked if was sure and I said yes.
The next question was about how it should be done and by whom. My wife said that the initial conversation should be just between her and Jenny. I think that's a relief. And it should be easy for her to do since they have lunch together at least twice a week and talk on the phone every day.
So I asked when she was going to tell her and how. That's when she sprung her own surprise. She said she would talk to her about it "sometime soon" but "probably not right away." And the big surprise was that she said she would not tell me when she had "had the talk" with Jenny! That means I won't know when she knows! I could be interacting with someone who knows my wife spanks me and I don't even know whether she knows.
I tried to tell my wife how unfair this is. I wouldn't know how to act around Jenny if I don't know whether she knows. I am surely going to be much more nervous around her until I know the situation. And she is bound to notice that. If she has already been told, she will assume that that is the reason and that is very embarrassing. And if she doesn't yet know, she will be wondering why I am acting so strange. What am I supposed to say?
As you might guess, my wife just laughed at my dilemma and said that is the general idea--to increase the tension. "It will just add to the excitement" is what she told me. And that was the end of the discussion.
Now all I can think about is when she will have "the conversation" with Jenny. They are having lunch together tomorrow. Will she tell her then? Will I be able to tell whether Jenny has been told by how she acts around me?
I guess the old saying "Be careful what you wish for" applies here.
In your comments last week, you indicated she might or might not go through with it. What are your thoughts on that now?
DeleteWhen, early after we were married - and I had gotten used to being spanked - my (late) first wife let me know she had told a couple of her friends... and, not too long afterwards, she found a reason to spank me before each of them (on separate occasions) - and later before two more friends (one of whom was J.) I assume (though I have no proof) that the word must have been spread around - although J. claims she never told any of _her_ friends.
ReplyDeleteBy the time I married J., however, B. (her sister) not only learned that J. spanked me, but was also invited to do so whenever we got together! Two of J's friends were also "in the know" about her disciplinary methods... as were, I am sure, some of the guests in neighboring hotel rooms when J.(and N. before her!) applied the hairbrush and/or the martinet while we were/are traveling...
L.