The Forum -- Vol. 238 -- Tears and more tears

"I was better after I had cried, than before--more sorry, more aware of my own ingratitude, more gentle.” - Charles Dickens from Great Expectations

Hello all.  I hope you had a great week.  Welcome back to the The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships. 

Well, one month down in this new year.  Honestly, I did a little better than usual at keeping to some resolutions around diet and exercise.  Not perfect, by a long shot, but not terrible either.  Though, it did start drifting a bit toward the end, and I'm going to have to whip myself back onto the better track I was on.  Or, a certain someone is going to have to do it for me! But, all in all, 2018 is still looking better than 2017.  But, I recently came across this link that gave me reason to think that perhaps I judged 2017 a little too harshly: 
https://qz.com/1169003/the-99-best-things-that-happened-in-2017/.  Every once in a while, it's good to focus on the positive, which these days generally seems to require completely cutting yourself off from the daily news cycle.

A couple of weeks ago, we closed another poll.  This one on a subject that long-time readers know is particularly near and dear to my heart.  To the point that I consciously try not to overdo it.  Which is difficult, because it was probably the very most important facet of domestic discipline to me in the beginning, and one that I found simultaneously fascinating and terrifying.  That topic is tears, specifically, being brought to real tears by an adult spanking.  The results from the most recent poll are in: 

 

I have not but want to:                                            46%

I have not and do not want to:                                12%

I have but only a few tears:                                    17%

I have, including crying hard or sobbing:               22% 

I've run variations of this poll a couple of times, though this is the first time I've asked whether those who have not cried want to.  The results as to the relative proportions of those who have cried and those who have not has stayed fairly stable across the polls, with about half saying they have not cried, and with the other half somewhat closely divided between those who have shed only a few tears and those who say an adult spanking has led to hard crying or sobbing.   

This year's spin on the poll does seem to show pretty clearly that of those who have not cried, a very solid majority would like to. You definitely can put me in that camp.  The prospect of crying was probably the most significant driver of the emotional reaction I had when I first discovered domestic discipline by reading about it on-line.  Stories of men being brought to tears over their wives knees transfixed me, though not in a wholly positive way.  More like being in a car and knowing you are about to crash and can't avoid it.  It left me with butterflies in my stomach, though that really understates things.  I couldn't sleep.  I couldn't think of much of anything else for the couple of days between when I first stumbled on the concept and when I brought it to my wife's attention. I found the whole prospect both utterly compelling and utterly repulsive.  It both fascinated and scared the living hell out of me.  The thought of letting go of control so thoroughly that I would sob in front of my wife as a result of a paddling or strapping she delivered really shook me to my core in a fundamental way.  It scared me like nothing else really every had or has since, yet I found myself compulsively drawn to it.   

This fascination with tears shows up even in my reaction to spanking-related art and media.  Pictures that show real tears as the result of a spanking still give me butterflies in the stomach:

 

Though, it probably says a lot about the factors that prevent men from crying that in order to find a good drawing of an adult spanking resulting in tears, I have to go with a woman spankee, because the art depicting men crying is almost completely devoid of anything resembling actual emotional release.

Yet, here we are so many years later, and I still have not cried. Even as a result of spankings that plainly fall into the "severe" range.  So, while the spanking fantasy literature may suggest it's all about effort on her part, that's clearly not the case.  Instead, I would describe it as a necessary but insufficient part of the recipe for tears.

While it's impossible for me to pinpoint exactly why, I've come to believe there are certain factors that play into why some men get there and some don't:

Severity:  A spanking must be severe enough to "get the job done."  But, at least in my case if it starts out very severe from the start using a really painful instrument like a skinny wooden paddle or a rubber strap, I absolutely will not be brought to tears because, paradoxically, it is just too hard and I can't stop myself from resisting it.  I cannot stop myself from trying to "man up" and just get through each swat.  No matter how much I go into the spanking with the intent of "taking my medicine" and leaving myself open to it in a way that might let me release into tears, I just cannot do it if the pain level is too much at the beginning. 

Duration: My wife tends to spank very hard, but sometimes so much so that my bottom gets in bad shape quickly and then she decides to terminate the spanking.  I suspect that duration plays at least as big a role as severity in bringing about real tears and that sobbing is more likely to happen when it starts really occurring to him that this spanking is going to go on way past his ability to "take it like a man."

  

Immediacy and remorse:  Oftentimes, I'm being spanked for something that we both agree is something I should be spanked for but, (a) it's something that didn't have any real impact on her or anyone else and, hence, I don't really feel all that guilty about it; or (b) so much time has passed between the offense and the consequences that whatever guilt I once felt has dissipated.

Lecturing: Related to the presence or absence of remorse, I suspect that a very strong lecture before the spanking would help soften me up emotionally and leave me more vulnerable and, hence, more likely to cry.  This has, unfortunately, never been my wife's strong suit, though she has been getting better at it recently.  

"Manliness": Some men's identities are more bound up with the concept of being "manly" with all that it entails.  Unfortunately, one thing it may entail is a very deep-seated resistance to showing vulnerability and an inability to easily display that vulnerability or weakness.  Those identity traits are actually strengths that can help us get through a lot, accomplish a lot and succeed in out-sized ways. But, like all such traits, they can come at a price when they become excessive or one-dimensional. That price may be a very strong resistance to embarrassment and emotional vulnerability, both of which crying from a spanking would likely entail.

Pain tolerance:  The plain fact is, I have a lead bottom and a weirdly high pain threshold.  I've suffered some fairly significant injuries in the past, but they just didn't hurt me as much as they seem to hurt other people.  So, getting me to a point at which the pain becomes truly unbearable is a daunting prospect.  

Encouragement from the disciplinary spouse:  Those of us who have a strong emotional resistance to crying may also fear embarrassment more than others.  In those cases, I think the disciplinary wife probably has a role in facilitating tears not just by lecturing sternly then spanking severely, but also by letting her husband know before and during the spanking that not only is she comfortable with him crying, but she wants him to do so. My wife and I have discussed this several times, and I think her attitude has progressed a lot as she has become more comfortable in her role, going from acknowledging that my crying might disturb her because it it shows is hurting me "too much," to getting over that and being OK if I do cry at some point, to mildly disappointed that it has not happened yet. 

Determination to Deliver Discipline.  While this may not qualify as a truly separate category, I do think that tears are at least much more likely to result when she (a) wants them to happen; (b) is determined to bring them about, and (b) is determined to do so because she is determined that the spanking will be given and received as a real, true disciplinary experience.  ZD alluded to this a few weeks ago when he shared with us that he had finally cried from being spanked.  As he told us, it came about largely because his wife announced it advance that it was going to, period.

So, with that very long-winded opening, tell us your situation, hopes and fears where tears are concerned.  Have you been brought to tears?  Would you like to be?  If you have, were there certain things that enabled you to get there? If not, what do you think is holding you back?  For those of you who have cried, what role did your spouse playing in getting you there, and have they told you how they feel about you crying as a result of their disciplinary efforts?

 

I hope you all have a great week.

The Forum - Vol. 237 - Boys & Men

I think every girl's dream is to find a bad boy at the right time, when he wants to not be bad anymore. - Taylor Swift

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship. I hope you all had a good week.

We had a good discussion last week, don't you think?  We got some really interesting comments on when punishment is likely to work and when it may not.  I really liked this observation by ZM: "In short, I think punishment will modify behavior if it makes the risk/reward ratio of the behavior unfavorable."  It seems so obvious, yet there is a very elegant wisdom to it. 

A couple of weeks ago, GeorgiaFella made posted this comment: During punishment spankings for being neglectful, or through preemptive spankings designed to help keep me "good," I never cry (and, yes, the spankings hurt plenty!). But my voice does revert to the remorseful, submissive tone of a little boy as I repeatedly and sincerely AGREE with her criticisms by timidly voicing a long series of "Yes, Ma'ams," and "No, Ma'ams." So, by being reduced to a boy, I am restored as a man. And my wife's "tool of restoration" just happens to be a very reliable pine paddle featuring at least two dozen airflow holes!). There's something very powerful about motherly care. My little boy feelings and responses come very naturally and immediately as she escorts me by my ear to the bedroom. It took a long time for her to embrace her role as a spanking wife, but when she finally got that she can inflict pain within the context of motherly love, it all clicked for her."

I know this topic may make some squeamish, but I think it's still worth exploring a couple of aspects of it.  First, do GeorgiaFella's comments resonate with the Disciplinary Wives?  Is there a "maternal" aspect to wielding your Domestic Discipline authority?  Or, is the idea of being maternal toward your spouse a turn-off?

For the men, do you see any aspect of the maternal influence in your desire to be disciplined by a strong female authority?  Growing up, was your mother the disciplinarian?  Do you think that has anything to do with your DD desires today?  And, what about the idea of being reduced to a "little boy" during a spanking?  Does that concept resonate for you?

 For me, there are times that the idea of a DD wife as the "strict mom" I really didn't have does resonate.  But, I don't think that, at its root, it's about the maternal aspect.  Rather, it is about wanting an authority figure--any authority figure--who sets the rules and enforces them consistently and who has sufficient "executive presence" or other power or authority that the punishment is inevitable and resistance futile.  While the "strict mom" archetype serves that role, so would an aunt, teacher, school principal, or any other authoritarian whose power or position was sufficient to make me submit. 

Now, my wife seems to share some of the proclivities of GeorgiaFella's wife.  While we haven't talked about it in detail, from time to time she talks about using DD to reduce me to a "teen-age boy who needs a spanking from his mom."  She has compared me to a teenager who mischievously pushes buttons just to do it, then acts surprised when she gets fed up and does something about it.  As I said, we haven't talked about it in detail, but I do get the sense that she does cast her disciplinary role in a somewhat maternal light.

I hope you all have a great week.

The Forum - Vol. 236 - Disobedience and Repeat Offenses

Disobedience is essentially a prideful power struggle against someone in authority over us. It can be a parent, a priesthood leader, a teacher, or ultimately God. A proud person hates the fact that someone is above him. He thinks this lowers his position. Ezra Taft Benson

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship. I hope you all had a good week.

2018 is off to a, what is the right word -- self-contradictory -- start.  As I wrote the last couple of weeks, I have been in this mindset in which I want to let my bad boy run free a bit more than usual.  Yet, in some ways my behavior has actually been better than usual.  At the end of the year and spilling into 2018, we had one of those very indulgent vacations comprised mainly of lounging around, eating too much and drinking too much.  But, I had decided to that once we got back to reality, I was going to try to really reset things where physical health was concerned.  So, I went on a fairly strict diet regimen.  Sort of "paleo lite."  I eliminated pretty much all bread and grain products other than a very little rice on a couple of vacations, all processed foods, and anything with added sugar.  Basically, I ate meat, fish and vegetables.  And, the really biggie -- no alcohol.  I set a goal of not having a single alcoholic beverage for two weeks.  Miraculously, I made it.  And, I lost a hell of a lot of weight, proportionally, in that two-week period.  Enough so that I was planning to maintain it for another week and maybe two.

You know what's coming, right?  Yep, right after I made the inner goal of continuing on that healthy trajectory, I fell off the wagon resoundingly and dramatically.  A work dinner turned into too much wine, followed by someone in the crew wanting to have just one more . . . culminating in rolling in at 2:00 am.  That led to a thoroughly unproductive Friday.  But, in all honesty, that hardly distinguishes it from most of the rest of the week, since I am just really struggling with committing to being productive at work right now.

Two things made the drinking incident doubly disappointing.  First, she had given me a really hard spanking just the night before.  It had been sort of a general "catch up" for bad behavior and for disobeying an order from her at a holiday party back in December.  Second, this latest incident also involved disobedience, because as dinner was starting she sent me a text telling me I was to have no more than two drinks.  The funny thing is, I don't recall making any conscious decision to disobey her. Instead, I had one glass of wine.  Then, the waiter refilled that one and I drank that. Then, I promptly forgot all about her command.  The result is I am in for at least one spanking this weekend, on top of a bottom that is still sore from the last one.

So, how are repeat offenses and disobedience handled in your household?  Although I am dreading the spanking I have coming, intellectually and as an advocate for Domestic Discipline and FLR lifestyles, I feel like disobedience needs to be in a separate category of offenses and should be treated especially seriously, because it potentially undermines the entire premise of the relationship.  It's not just another kind of bad behavior but, rather, violates the whole agreed-upon chain of command.  Thus, it should be dealt with especially severely.  Is that the case in your household?  Does disobedience carry with it some extra-special consequences?  Additional spankings? Harder spankings?  Punishment entirely different from a spanking?  Tell us all about it.

I hope you all have a great week.

The Forum - Vol. 235 - DD's Impact on Female Sexuality

Strong women intimidate boys and excite men. -- unknown

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Forum, our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationships.  I hope you all had a great week.

Personally, I am having a really, really hard time switching from holiday laziness to something resembling productive work.  I just don't feel very motivated to get back into the workaday grind.  Thankfully,  MLK Day here in the U.S. came along and gave me another slight reprieve.  I hope you all enjoy yours as well. 

As I talked about last week, I've been in a bit of a "bad boy" kind of mood.  A little more focused on fun and games than I was in 2017.  In fact, it's a bit of a departure from my usual mindset.  I tend to be fairly intense by nature, and I'm sure my attraction to DD is related to that intensity in some way.  As with the rest of my life, I gravitate toward an intense form of accountability and seem to need more intense and rigorous consequences.  Now, I'm probably not going to get very far in any effort to change that, because it just is who I am.  But, what I think I can aspire to is a bit more of a "work hard, play hard" variation of intensity, with a little more emphasis on the "play" aspect that has been under-served the last few years.

So, what does all this have to do with today's topic?  Well, thinking about play seems to lead kind of naturally to thinking about sex. At least for those of us with a bent toward the kinkier things in life.  We've talked before about whether DD is inherently sexual or driven by a sexual desire, so let's not focus on that.  What I'd like to talk about instead is the extent to which Domestic Discipline has enhanced (or not) the quality of your sex life.

Even more particularly, has it increased the Disciplinary Wife's sexual confidence and aggressiveness?  Has taking over the role of keeping you inline and on track inevitably resulted in her taking charge more in the bedroom?

If so, how does that manifest itself?  Does she take more physical control?  Does her attitude and demeanor in bed reflect a greater level of aggression, control or dominance?

And, if she hasn't taken things in that direction, do you want her to?

I've been thinking about these things not only because of this general stirring of my inner "bad boy," but because after years of doing DD, my wife does seem to be getting more sexually aggressive as a result of her increased focus on FLR.  It's subtle, but she is initiating sex more often. Not just initiating, but commanding.  Earlier this week, she sent me a text simply telling me that we were going to be having sex that night so I needed to make sure I wrapped up all work and other activities by 9:00.  In bed, she also seems increasingly prone to taking over, grabbing my hair, twisting nipples, etc.  It's a pretty exciting development, and I've told her I hope she keeps exploring her sexuality in these ways.

So, tell us how Domestic Discipline has impacted your sex life, or how you would like it to. Wives, I would love to hear more from you on this topic in particular.

Have a great week.

The Forum - Vol. 234 - Manliness, Tears, and Trolls

Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist. - Pablo Picasso

Hi all.  I hope you had a good week, and a great holiday season.  I admit, I am very sorry to see it go.  I was back at work the last couple of days but accomplished almost nothing.  I think I was in a state of denial about actually needing to get back in a productive mode and just wasn't quite ready to do it.

My lack of motivation at work also seems to apply to blogging, as I can't say I have any scintillating topic in mind for today.  So, I may just ramble a little.  I'll lead off by talking about trolls and spammers.  I felt like they were kind of the bane of my blogging existence last year, though they can also be a fine source of entertainment if you don't take them seriously.  A few months ago, my blog somehow got on the radar of some prolific spammer(s).  I don't know enough about the spam business model to know why they post random comments on blogs like mine.  I suspect they do it to probe whether comments are enabled and, if so, they follow up with some commercial advertisement or link.  I'm also sure some of it is purely automated "bot" activity, with no real human engagement.  But, that in itself gets amusing sometimes, particularly if the bot is kind of stupid and the content drafted by someone who isn't very facile with the English language.  While a few of the spam comments I've been receiving are grammatically correct, most aren't and some are just plain weird.  For you Saturday enjoyment, here is a sampling of the spam I got in the last few weeks:

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OK, that last one wasn't actually spam and was from a known source, but still worth sharing.  😀

Usually, either my last post of the year or first post of the new year is about resolutions, but as I said last week, this year I haven't really gotten around to making any.  And, the more I've thought about it, I think I'm going to keep it that way, at least in terms of "big picture" stuff.  I am, by nature, a goal-setter and a chronic maker of lists.  I usually have a formal set of goals for the year, particularly around job and career performance, but also covering more personal goals.  I have a pretty good track record, though far from perfect, of meeting the career and finance-related goals and aspirations.  All the others -- not so much.  And, I think there may be a connection between succeeding brilliantly in the former and failing fairly miserably in the latter.  I've been in that stage of life where providing for a family, building a retirement nest egg and similar economic-related goals were pretty important. But, we're now getting to that point in life where it is time to give some thought to what the next phase looks like, and I don't want to be one of those guys who lives to go into that same damn office every day until I die at my desk.  So, I really am more or less consciously foregoing setting career or money-related goals this year, trying to create some intellectual and emotional space to allow things to just happen.

I also can't say that we have many specific DD-related goals for 2018, though in that area there is a consensus that we both want "more," in the sense of the discussion we all had a few weeks ago.  More strictness.  More accountability.  A narrower set of boundaries on my personal behavior and more consistent consequences for treading outside those boundaries.  I think she is genuinely there with me on those goals, at least at a high level.  One indication of that is as follows. One goal I do have is probably shared by about 90% of the population this month -- getting back into better physical shape.  Last year was such a meat grinder from start to finish, I kind of let myself go.  I also had a couple of injuries that sidelined me from working out for significant periods of time.  So, I told her I want to put myself on a pretty strict regimen for at least the next two weeks, eliminating sugar and processed foods, most grains and bread and getting into the gym consistently.  But, Fridays are always a pretty significant challenge, because my whole team is into happy hours.  Thursday night, however, out of the blue she instructed me, "You are not to drink tomorrow."  She generally doesn't just issue orders like that, so it came as a bit of a surprise.  It was, indeed, kind of hard to leave work early and miss any afternoon festivities, but thanks to her order and my compliance with it, for once I woke up on a Saturday feeling sharp and generally energetic.

Which is really my goal with DD.  It's not really about general submission for me, and I don't think of myself as a "submissive" or aspire to be one.  For me, it's more about recognizing that I need rules and consequences, even if I hate them at the time.  Because, when I don't have someone imposing boundaries, things get out of hand.  But, craving that accountability doesn't mean I want to be reduced to a sheep or that I want to "reform" to the point that I'm not having any fun or that I become less "manly" in her eyes or in my own.  In fact, I seem to be going a bit in the other direction.  Without any conscious decision to do so, I've found myself gravitating toward more "manly" and "bad boy" things recently.  Watching a lot of "guy" movies over the holidays.  Listening to music with more manly, one even might say "juvenile" or puerile themes -- lots of AC/DC and newer "bro country" stuff with lots of pick-up trucks and beer drinking lyrics.  I wanted to read a bit a couple of nights ago and wasn't gravitating toward any of the new books on my Kindle, so I read some of Walt Whitman's "Song of Myself," a very manly poem celebrating earthiness and bodily pleasures.

So, I feel like my bad boy wants to come out and play a bit this year.  Yet, I also want and need her to rein me in if that becomes destructive to me or hurtful to her or others.  When looking for some of that bawdy music over the holidays, I found a song by The Pretenders called "Bad Boys Get Spanked."  I hadn't run across it before but love the opening lines:

You're not supposed to do that

You know you're not allowed to

But you seem to get some kind of kick

Out of doing what you're not allowed to

You deliberately defy the rules

'Cause the law's upheld by fools

Shit on that

Bad boys get spanked

That's the direction in which this year seems to be going -- I want to let the little boy run loose a little more and not take things as seriously as I did last year, but there will be consequences if the bad little boy pushes the boundaries a bit too far.  It also seems to be the case that she increasingly sees herself as the person setting those boundaries, such that instead of the two of us agreeing to behaviors that will be punished, she is likely to exercise more of her own discretion and "lay down the law."  We talked about this in terms of an excerpt from one of the few books on female dominance that I've found to be worth reading, called the Hesitant Mistress, which contains the following "Warning":

THIS book will teach your partner how to be more dominant. That means she will learn how to actually be more dominant, not just how to act like a dominatrix long enough for you to get your jollies off in the bedroom.

Your partner will learn how to say no to you. She will learn how to train you. She will learn how to punish you and hold you accountable for your actions. She will learn that she can demand whatever she wants from you, despite whatever you might want from her.

You have been warned.

That seems to be where things are heading for us, and right now I just want to kind of run with that and see where it takes us.

There was one exchange of comments over the holidays that I really enjoyed.  ZM crossed a major threshold that I still have not been able to get over, namely tears.  Here is the exchange between him and Alan:

ZM: “Yesterday, I got to experience a first, in that I was spanked to tears for the first time ever, at least as an adult. This has been a topic of endless (and perhaps morbid?) fascination for me, to say the least, and I really couldn't believe that it happened. The punishment was for several prolonged bouts of bad attitude. My wife has been under huge amounts of stress in recent months due to parental health issues, and as she was administering the punishment, I just felt so incredibly bad when I thought of how unhelpful my attitude has been, and how rather than supporting her I was making things more difficult. This guilt, combined with a delrin cane (which is basically just horrible), and in the diaper position (which makes everything so much worse), finally broke down that barrier that I have never really been able to cross before. I kind of have a feeling that once the dam has broken, it will probably be more easily breached in the future. Also, my wife is just getting incredibly good at this whole thing, plus she really enjoys it. She doesn't enjoy administering these real punishments at the time, but later as she reflects upon it, it leaves her pretty excited. Anyway, I guess the coming year promises to be most interesting!”

Alan: “Yes it happens more frequently after a "breakthrough". Having your wife encourage crying as mine does also helps. But it takes that combination of real regret ( shame , really) plus a punishment that just goes on and on until you just give in to it.”

ZM: “Alan, Mine had pretty much decided beforehand that tears were going to happen, and she continued until they did. Afterwards she said she would have liked to go a bit longer, but it was hard to see me crying. She decided that next time, she go until she decides it has been enough and then will add a certain number of additional strokes, probably by rolling two dice (resulting in 2-12 additional) just to make sure she didn't under-punish and to give fate a bit of say in the matter.  I agree that it was mostly driven by guilt, combined with a non-relenting spanking. I don't think she punished harder than usual, but certainly longer, and plus she had said before that the next punishment would certainly result in tears, so I think she set the stage for it and that helped me to get into the proper state of mind. Anyway, the tears took it to a whole new level of "real" feeling for us.”

I hope I can have a similar exchange in 2018, yet it has alluded me for over a decade.  It may seem incongruous to say I want to give my inner male and/or my inner boy more room to roam this year, while also wanting to experience crying from an adult spanking, but I don't think they are really that inconsistent.  I want the boundaries that I lacked growing up, and I want her to help rein me in when I get out of control.  I want the upside of being mischievous and naughty, but I also want to really experience the emotions that happen when a bad boy gets really, really punished.  While I'm going to save crying and tears for a separate topic, in preparation for that, I've posted a poll on reader's experiences with them and desires for them.

Well, there you go.  I know it doesn't raise an actual topic, but maybe it gives folks something to react to.  Though the whole topic of manliness, bringing out the little boy and being punished like one, and whether that is consistent with the manly virtues our wives want in us most of time sets up a general theme.  I'm also kind of toying with the idea of adjusting the mix on the blog of concrete topic and "stream of consciousness" or "journaling" kind of content.  I still like the topical approach, but it is getting harder and harder to come up with things we haven't beat to death.

Have a great week!