Saturday, January 6, 2018

The Forum - Vol. 234 - Manliness, Tears, and Trolls

Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist. - Pablo Picasso

Hi all.  I hope you had a good week, and a great holiday season.  I admit, I am very sorry to see it go.  I was back at work the last couple of days but accomplished almost nothing.  I think I was in a state of denial about actually needing to get back in a productive mode and just wasn't quite ready to do it.

My lack of motivation at work also seems to apply to blogging, as I can't say I have any scintillating topic in mind for today.  So, I may just ramble a little.  I'll lead off by talking about trolls and spammers.  I felt like they were kind of the bane of my blogging existence last year, though they can also be a fine source of entertainment if you don't take them seriously.  A few months ago, my blog somehow got on the radar of some prolific spammer(s).  I don't know enough about the spam business model to know why they post random comments on blogs like mine.  I suspect they do it to probe whether comments are enabled and, if so, they follow up with some commercial advertisement or link.  I'm also sure some of it is purely automated "bot" activity, with no real human engagement.  But, that in itself gets amusing sometimes, particularly if the bot is kind of stupid and the content drafted by someone who isn't very facile with the English language.  While a few of the spam comments I've been receiving are grammatically correct, most aren't and some are just plain weird.  For you Saturday enjoyment, here is a sampling of the spam I got in the last few weeks:

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OK, that last one wasn't actually spam and was from a known source, but still worth sharing.  😀

Usually, either my last post of the year or first post of the new year is about resolutions, but as I said last week, this year I haven't really gotten around to making any.  And, the more I've thought about it, I think I'm going to keep it that way, at least in terms of "big picture" stuff.  I am, by nature, a goal-setter and a chronic maker of lists.  I usually have a formal set of goals for the year, particularly around job and career performance, but also covering more personal goals.  I have a pretty good track record, though far from perfect, of meeting the career and finance-related goals and aspirations.  All the others -- not so much.  And, I think there may be a connection between succeeding brilliantly in the former and failing fairly miserably in the latter.  I've been in that stage of life where providing for a family, building a retirement nest egg and similar economic-related goals were pretty important. But, we're now getting to that point in life where it is time to give some thought to what the next phase looks like, and I don't want to be one of those guys who lives to go into that same damn office every day until I die at my desk.  So, I really am more or less consciously foregoing setting career or money-related goals this year, trying to create some intellectual and emotional space to allow things to just happen.

I also can't say that we have many specific DD-related goals for 2018, though in that area there is a consensus that we both want "more," in the sense of the discussion we all had a few weeks ago.  More strictness.  More accountability.  A narrower set of boundaries on my personal behavior and more consistent consequences for treading outside those boundaries.  I think she is genuinely there with me on those goals, at least at a high level.  One indication of that is as follows. One goal I do have is probably shared by about 90% of the population this month -- getting back into better physical shape.  Last year was such a meat grinder from start to finish, I kind of let myself go.  I also had a couple of injuries that sidelined me from working out for significant periods of time.  So, I told her I want to put myself on a pretty strict regimen for at least the next two weeks, eliminating sugar and processed foods, most grains and bread and getting into the gym consistently.  But, Fridays are always a pretty significant challenge, because my whole team is into happy hours.  Thursday night, however, out of the blue she instructed me, "You are not to drink tomorrow."  She generally doesn't just issue orders like that, so it came as a bit of a surprise.  It was, indeed, kind of hard to leave work early and miss any afternoon festivities, but thanks to her order and my compliance with it, for once I woke up on a Saturday feeling sharp and generally energetic.

Which is really my goal with DD.  It's not really about general submission for me, and I don't think of myself as a "submissive" or aspire to be one.  For me, it's more about recognizing that I need rules and consequences, even if I hate them at the time.  Because, when I don't have someone imposing boundaries, things get out of hand.  But, craving that accountability doesn't mean I want to be reduced to a sheep or that I want to "reform" to the point that I'm not having any fun or that I become less "manly" in her eyes or in my own.  In fact, I seem to be going a bit in the other direction.  Without any conscious decision to do so, I've found myself gravitating toward more "manly" and "bad boy" things recently.  Watching a lot of "guy" movies over the holidays.  Listening to music with more manly, one even might say "juvenile" or puerile themes -- lots of AC/DC and newer "bro country" stuff with lots of pick-up trucks and beer drinking lyrics.  I wanted to read a bit a couple of nights ago and wasn't gravitating toward any of the new books on my Kindle, so I read some of Walt Whitman's "Song of Myself," a very manly poem celebrating earthiness and bodily pleasures.

So, I feel like my bad boy wants to come out and play a bit this year.  Yet, I also want and need her to rein me in if that becomes destructive to me or hurtful to her or others.  When looking for some of that bawdy music over the holidays, I found a song by The Pretenders called "Bad Boys Get Spanked."  I hadn't run across it before but love the opening lines:

You're not supposed to do that
You know you're not allowed to
But you seem to get some kind of kick
Out of doing what you're not allowed to
You deliberately defy the rules
'Cause the law's upheld by fools
Shit on that

Bad boys get spanked

That's the direction in which this year seems to be going -- I want to let the little boy run loose a little more and not take things as seriously as I did last year, but there will be consequences if the bad little boy pushes the boundaries a bit too far.  It also seems to be the case that she increasingly sees herself as the person setting those boundaries, such that instead of the two of us agreeing to behaviors that will be punished, she is likely to exercise more of her own discretion and "lay down the law."  We talked about this in terms of an excerpt from one of the few books on female dominance that I've found to be worth reading, called the Hesitant Mistress, which contains the following "Warning":

THIS book will teach your partner how to be more dominant. That means she will learn how to actually be more dominant, not just how to act like a dominatrix long enough for you to get your jollies off in the bedroom.

Your partner will learn how to say no to you. She will learn how to train you. She will learn how to punish you and hold you accountable for your actions. She will learn that she can demand whatever she wants from you, despite whatever you might want from her.

You have been warned.

That seems to be where things are heading for us, and right now I just want to kind of run with that and see where it takes us.

There was one exchange of comments over the holidays that I really enjoyed.  ZM crossed a major threshold that I still have not been able to get over, namely tears.  Here is the exchange between him and Alan:

ZM: “Yesterday, I got to experience a first, in that I was spanked to tears for the first time ever, at least as an adult. This has been a topic of endless (and perhaps morbid?) fascination for me, to say the least, and I really couldn't believe that it happened. The punishment was for several prolonged bouts of bad attitude. My wife has been under huge amounts of stress in recent months due to parental health issues, and as she was administering the punishment, I just felt so incredibly bad when I thought of how unhelpful my attitude has been, and how rather than supporting her I was making things more difficult. This guilt, combined with a delrin cane (which is basically just horrible), and in the diaper position (which makes everything so much worse), finally broke down that barrier that I have never really been able to cross before. I kind of have a feeling that once the dam has broken, it will probably be more easily breached in the future. Also, my wife is just getting incredibly good at this whole thing, plus she really enjoys it. She doesn't enjoy administering these real punishments at the time, but later as she reflects upon it, it leaves her pretty excited. Anyway, I guess the coming year promises to be most interesting!”

Alan: “Yes it happens more frequently after a "breakthrough". Having your wife encourage crying as mine does also helps. But it takes that combination of real regret ( shame , really) plus a punishment that just goes on and on until you just give in to it.

ZM: “Alan, Mine had pretty much decided beforehand that tears were going to happen, and she continued until they did. Afterwards she said she would have liked to go a bit longer, but it was hard to see me crying. She decided that next time, she go until she decides it has been enough and then will add a certain number of additional strokes, probably by rolling two dice (resulting in 2-12 additional) just to make sure she didn't under-punish and to give fate a bit of say in the matter.  I agree that it was mostly driven by guilt, combined with a non-relenting spanking. I don't think she punished harder than usual, but certainly longer, and plus she had said before that the next punishment would certainly result in tears, so I think she set the stage for it and that helped me to get into the proper state of mind. Anyway, the tears took it to a whole new level of "real" feeling for us.”

I hope I can have a similar exchange in 2018, yet it has alluded me for over a decade.  It may seem incongruous to say I want to give my inner male and/or my inner boy more room to roam this year, while also wanting to experience crying from an adult spanking, but I don't think they are really that inconsistent.  I want the boundaries that I lacked growing up, and I want her to help rein me in when I get out of control.  I want the upside of being mischievous and naughty, but I also want to really experience the emotions that happen when a bad boy gets really, really punished.  While I'm going to save crying and tears for a separate topic, in preparation for that, I've posted a poll on reader's experiences with them and desires for them.

Well, there you go.  I know it doesn't raise an actual topic, but maybe it gives folks something to react to.  Though the whole topic of manliness, bringing out the little boy and being punished like one, and whether that is consistent with the manly virtues our wives want in us most of time sets up a general theme.  I'm also kind of toying with the idea of adjusting the mix on the blog of concrete topic and "stream of consciousness" or "journaling" kind of content.  I still like the topical approach, but it is getting harder and harder to come up with things we haven't beat to death.

Have a great week!


  1. Your post is so accurate in how it deals with those things that people do sometimes and often are concerned over but do little about. I am so glad that words can convey ideas in a way that people can read them and if they know what the definitions are can absorb wisdom that would otherwise not be available to them unless they look hard and hope they find it. When you write things they are really just spoken words in print which achieves much of what conversation can do if a person is listening and I am listening to your written words with an attentive ear. I hope this New Year brings lots of opportunities for you to discuss those specific yet unnamed things that you always write about so eloquently. The scintillating topics, that might not seem as vague as this comment, often expounded upon with precise analysis of the elusive nature of what any actual thing is. I await your next post about this topic that I will not demean by saying what it is because by defining it I would be limiting you and me and the whole world who would otherwise learn so much, just like my dear person, Otto, who gained so much by your help, wisdom, and porn-banishing amazingness. -----Affectionately yours, Mr./Ms. N. E. Body, Esq.

  2. OK, seriously now, onto your topic. I have always felt like a bit of a unmanly guy who does all these manly things in a way that confuse everyone. It is probably all part of the contradictory nature of me being me. As such, I have often had fun pretending to be more of the opposite of what any situation called for (i.e.bringing up Fine Art exhibits or a good recipe in a group of guys talking football, or talking guns to a group of artsy types.) It's just my way of having fun.

    As for what I'm leaning towards for 2018? Probably to just 'calm the fuck down' more. I seem to get so upset and angry about EVERYTHING that I am going to really try to just "let all the poisons that lurk in the mud, hatch out". (Points to anyone who knows where that tidbit came from, LOL) I know I am not going to change anything on this life journey, so I may as well enjoy the ride,

    1. You and I seem to be in very similar places in our aspirations for 2018 and where we found ourselves in 2017. I felt angry, astonished (in a negative way) or just plain overwhelmed through much of it. Where we are a little different is I tend to see myself as a manly guy who is often strangely in touch with my inner woman. :-)

  3. I've read this blog, I have not responded, but you mentioned tears after a spanking for the first time. I'm spanked, my wife insures I learn my lessons and crying is when she knows I'm getting the point.

  4. For me the writer hit the nail on the head. When there is genuine guilt and I feel that in some way I have caused her to feel badly, the tears come. Well, that and also sometimes when the spanking seems to go on for so long that I get incredibly frustrated that she won't stop and that might do it too.

  5. Dan

    Funny but your regular contributors are echoing what Peter and I have been working toward. "REINING IN".
    That is what we are basing our situation on. Peter, like you I sense, is often all over the place. I dont want
    some puppy that does what I want. I want the man that I was drawn to in the beginning. I want our boys, now on the beginning of manhood, to grow understanding boundaries at times will make life easier.
    At the same time I needed to stand up and demand that we have a partnership.
    In our house we have a rule all cell phones are to be turned off at dinner. If we hear even the ding it means that cellphone will be taken away for a week. For Peter perhaps there is additional punishment.!
    Since I have taken more control I am a better wife and mother. More important I have a sense again of a partner.
    Happy New Year to you and your family. I think today's topic seems to be one of the best you have had.


    1. Hi Anna. I hope you and Peter had a great holiday. It's interesting that you comment "I want the man that I was drawn to in the beginning," because something along those lines got me thinking about this "topic" to the extent one is buried in there, i.e. the potential disparity between what my wife was attracted to when we met and the extent to which a "submissive" man could be in conflict with that. But, here was my thought process on why DD may work for us.

      Women like bad boys. They do. Yeah, yeah, I know that not every woman does, but a hell of a lot of them do. When my wife and I met, I was working as a bouncer on top of my day job (which was the kind of unimpressive job that you get as a liberal arts major in a bad economy), lived in my jeans and a leather jacket, drove a "manly" vehicle, and when I wasn't working in the bars I was there playing pool or hanging out with friends. I sort of exuded "bad boy." Yet, here we are years down the line, and her "bad boy" takes spankings from her when he strays outside the lines she sets. What occurred to be over the holidays as I was feeling a little nostalgic for that former bad boy fun, is that DD may work for many couples precisely because he is always going to have a little bit of that bad boy in him, and she kind of wants him to have it, but she also wants to have the ability to both rein him in and get a little "payback" when his bad boy behavior becomes a little too much.

      Do you have any thoughts on that? Would love to hear them.

    2. Hi Dan
      I believe the bad boy -nice girl dynamic was very common at the start of a relationship.
      For us that dynamic tilted dramatically once we be came parents.We had to tone down the bad boy side and she became more in charge with that matriarch role and her maternal instinct naturally flowed to me also in some respects.
      Interestingly it was around this time I began exploring FM discipline for the first time.
      Once I was able to raise it she took to it enthusiastically to my surprise.
      After the kids left home our roles settled into an entirely different dynamic but she still maintains that natural matriarch role.

    3. Hi Glen. Our trajectory was similar in that our DD relationship started after the kids came along. Not immediately after, but when they were pretty young. Though, in our case I do think the timing was largely coincidental, as I hadn't been aware of anything like DD until shortly before I introduced her to the concept after I read about it on-line. Now that the kids are much older and not around as much, the dynamic is changing. And, it could be the case that my bad boy nostalgia is, in fact, a reflection of the fact the kids aren't around as much and we are more financially secure, therefore, the phase of having to be a responsible role model is all the time is starting to be in the rearview mirror.

  6. It seems to me that tears have both alluded and eluded you. I have been away all weekend with Shilo at a non-conference and much of the discussions surrounded relationship dynamics in one way or another.

    Just wanted to say hello.

    1. Hi Merry. Hope the non-conference was good.

    2. It was! I would highly recommend it to anyone

  7. Dan-

    Love hearing going into the New Year you've been reflective on yourself from a more personal level. As we all know, getting to that point of introspection actually seeing and understanding (best we can) our own mindeset and corresponding needs is 90% of the battle. Given how both you and wife seem to be approaching the new level of self awareness, I think it's safe to say you're going to have an EXTREMELY important and to an extent life changing year!!! There will likely be aspects of yourself, your wife and your relationship that will look very different this time next year. You sharing it with us is so generous!!! As you're aware no dynamic change occurs without it's trial and tribulations! This is evidenced by "The Warning" in the intro of The Hesitant Mistress you shared. (I've read excerpts it's incredible!). Down deep we know what we want....and cognitavely we can understand what achieving those things will take. However you don't appreciate how it actually FEELS in reality until you experience it. To borrow one of the phrases in that preamble to make a weak analogy.... "she will learn how to train you". Like your fitness goals, you know what the training will need to be to attain your physical goals (diet, running, weights).....but you don't truly understand how difficult and challenging it is physically and MENTALLY until you're living it. No doubt the same will be true for you with the new degrees of FLR life you desire. You will both get where you both want to be with it.....but aspects of getting there will no doubt be more of a challenge than it "looked on paper". I'm going to enjoy following how things play out and evolve for you, I'll be fascinated to be following your journey!!!!!

    1. Hi Darren. While I don't like it to increasing self-awareness, I do get the feeling 2018 may prove to be a big year. I think a good one, but more as you say "important" or "consequential."

      The connection you draw between physical goals and DD/FLR training is apt. It's all well and good to have a goal. The point that usually trips you up, however, is either not being aware of the sacrifice involved or not being sufficiently committed to the goal to make that sacrifice when it becomes uncomfortable. Particularly when it involves denying yourself some short-term pleasure. Working out is not hard for me, and it's part of my routine. I don't consider doing it any form of self-denial. Keeping to a healthier diet, on the other hand, is much harder because the temptation is staring me in the face and I have to make a good choice in that moment when I really, really want to do something else.

    2. Meant to say, I don't "link" it to increasing self-awareness . . .

  8. LOL....I was following you. You don't give yourself enough credit! I think it shows outstanding self awareness to recognize at this stage, you want and need to let yourself go a bit..focus on a different aspect of "you", let the bad boy in you (which often translates into the proverbial little boy in all of us) be free to come out.....while at the same time in order for that to happen in a healthy way, you will need the help of your wife's oversight of it.

    As your wife increasingly steps up and does what needs to be done establishing and then maintaining the boundaries you'll need as you "let go " a're going to at times be made to feel very uncomfortable mentally (lol...and yeah no doubt physically as well). You are going to be sacraficing new and different elements and degrees of control, you have yet to have to give up and acquiesce to her.

    1. "Control" is definitely my biggest challenge. I once did not consider myself to be a control freak, though I now acknowledge that I kind of am.

  9. Dan:
    There's no question in my wife's mind about my manliness, and she normally likes for me to be just a regular guy and marital leader. As for being a "bad boy," I'm really not a hell-raiser. However, I do sometimes forget to carry out one or more of my wife's instructions (failure to do a chore, run a errand), or I may become a bit inattentive to her emotional or sexual needs. To bring resolution, we know that she needs to help me become a "good boy" again. The use of the word "boy" verbally reestablishes our understanding of how important my wife's womanly, wifely, and maternal powers are to both of us. During punishment spankings for being neglectful, or through preemptive spankings designed to help keep me "good," I never cry (and, yes, the spankings hurt plenty!). But my voice does revert to the remorseful, submissive tone of a little boy as I repeatedly and sincerely AGREE with her criticisms by timidly voicing a long series of "Yes, Ma'ams," and "No, Ma'ams." So, by being reduced to a boy, I am restored as a man. And my wife's "tool of restoration" just happens to be a very reliable pine paddle featuring at least two dozen airflow holes!). There's something very powerful about motherly care. My little boy feelings and responses come very naturally and immediately as she escorts me by my ear to the bedroom. It took a long time for her to embrace her role as a spanking wife, but when she finally got that she can inflict pain within the context of motherly love, it all clicked for her. It's ironic, though, how during our maternal punishment sessions, she's "discussing" with me our full-grown MARITAL issues. Man, what a mash-up!

    1. Hi GF. "So, by being reduced to a boy, I am restored as a man." I really like that.

    2. Georgiaguy's comment stuck with me overnight. Nice job or describing the different roles many of us experience in DWC relationships. It also got me thinking about how much time and energy we spend analyzing why we live this way. Which is really fine for those who love to do that.

      For me, it's more like appreciating an amazing sunset, or the ocean, or a giant redwood tree. Nature is amazing and perfect. And for me, living the disciplinary lifestyle is a beautiful thing. It's in my nature and I am part of nature overall. So it's perfect as is.

      Pardon my "syrup". We recently had a rekindling and it "warmed and sweetened hearth and heart".

  10. A very good comment, GeorgiaFella. I am not in a DD relationship myself, my partner spanks me mostly as fun and foreplay. Sometimes however, when I misbehave, she gives me a few firm swats on my bottom as a warning. The swats are frequently accompanied by a remark like "Don't do that, boy!", whereby she emphasizes the word "boy". As you say: "The use of the word "boy" verbally reestablishes our understanding of how important my wife's womanly, wifely, and maternal powers are to both of us."
    Best wishes for the coming year, richard.

  11. Since J. feels I have now recovered from the "12 days of Xmas" sequence she (and her sister) administered from Dec. 25 through Jan. 6, I was treated (for a reason) to a brisk 50-swats paddling with her hairbrush earlier tonight - and, as she returns to the usual MO, I know what I can expect in the not-too-distant future!...

  12. Hi and want to say I love your blog! I can't agree with the reply from Anna more. I think we want our men to be the men we fell in love with, strong, decisive etc. but I've also found that at times some of them just need a damn good spanking! Sometimes words alone don't work with you guys. I am very sweet and loving with my husband but now when I need to I "Wife-Up" and make him bend across my lap.
    It was difficult at first but I took to it quickly. I think because I loved having his little tush under my control, I was getting out pent up frustrations and felt like I had some re-course for situations that hadn't changed as needed. I also love the results I've seen and we're sticking with this!
    Case in point, my man is currently taking down the artificial Christmas tree and all decorations as I write this. I've been asking nicely and offering to do it together. He has time off and has promised to do it daily. (Daily with out follow through!)
    This morning I simply took him by the earlobe into the family room with paddle in hand. Without uttering a word or answering his questions, he knew what was about to happen but not why, over my knee he went. I took down his lounge pants and proceeded to paddle my husband's bare rear end until it was bright red and sitting would not be comfortable. I then sweetly asked if he thought he could take down all the Christmas décor today? He quickly answered yes but I assured him he didn't need to do it today but he'd be getting paddled EVERYDAY until it was completed! He really wanted to do it today, lol. I let him know that would really make me happy but I can't assist him because I had other things on my list now. I then (to his surprise) paddled him again soundly as he yelped and begged loudly for me to stop. I purposely am wearing my thich leather belt because I told him I may tan his hide later if I like it.
    So the chore is finally getting done but not before I had to administer a very sound paddling to my naughty, procrastinating boy. Love it! Chelle.

  13. Hi Chelle. Thanks for joining in. I agree, Anna's words are usually pretty wise!


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