Saturday, February 1, 2020

The Club - Meeting 329 - Attitude

Don’t let your mouth get you into something your ass can’t handle. – Unknown

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

This one was kind of rough for me.  One of those nagging, age-related infirmities I’ve been dealing with really flared up and wrecked my plans to get back on track where exercise was concerned.  It was pretty painful, which may or may not have contributed to a spat I got into regarding someone at work. It was one of those things that you can really rationalize in the context of Domestic Discipline relationship when you are kind of hoping to avoid punishment for it.  The other person’s behavior really was out of line, and it did really need to be addressed. Yet, I feel like my reaction may have been excessive, and even if it wasn’t it created a major time sink as I dealt with the fallout of raising the issue in a very strong way. Basically, I lost my temper and didn’t really pause to make sure I was level-setting my response appropriately.  Given that my temper is one of those things that I think a good hard spanking might give me an incentive to try to control, there is a good argument that I should get one. Yet . . . I can’t quite bring myself to feel the slightest remorse or contrition about my dealings with this jerk. But, maybe it's about needing to be disciplined for not being self-disciplined because, whether the reaction as justified or not, it reflected a loss of control and letting my temper and anger dictate the course of events.

There.  I guess that was my self-report for the week.  😉  But, seriously, I did take up Liz’s challenge. Sort of.  I did report the work incident and one other issue, but I did it this morning and, thus, arguably blew the 48-hour deadline.  Though, to rationalize things once again, I sent Anne a proposal regarding self-reporting after discussing it on the blog last week, and I haven’t gotten any communication back saying she agreed with the plan.  So, we really still need to discuss it and agree to the logistics, including the deadlines.   

I also had a change of plans mid-week regarding the mechanics of self-reporting I originally envisioned using a shared electronic log, using the “Collaboration” feature on our Mac computers' word processing program, which allows you to share a document with others who can then edit it in real time.  But, later in the week I had an exchange with one of the commenters about an app called Wunderlist that we have used for a long time to share things like shopping lists and household to-do’s.  I had thought about using it for a self-reporting tool some time ago, but I didn’t really follow up.  I think I’m going to experiment with making it my primary vehicle for reporting misbehavior.  It has a few advantages:
  • Secure & Confidential:  The app owner can create shared lists—such as “Behavior Log”—and invite only designated people to each list.  So, we can have a Christmas present list or household shopping list that all family members can add items to, but I also can create a Behavior Log list and invite only Anne.  Other family members will not see it on their device and they won’t get notices when an item is added. 
  • Instantaneous notice:  Whenever I add a new item to the list, like “Lost temper at work,” Anne gets a notice on her app showing I added it.  And, if she has enabled notifications for that app on her phone and computer, she will see the addition and its content right away.  So, she doesn’t have to open a file periodically or login to anything to discover whether I’ve entered anything.  The other thing about instantaneous updates is as soon as I write an item on the list and hit one butt, there is no taking it back.  She now knows and there is no going back to delete or modify something before sending.  Just doing that this morning added to a sense of “inevitability,” that I think some men who are attracted to DD really want and need.
  • Archiving: An item stays on the list until it is either marked as “done” or deleted, and you can choose whether completed items are deleted completely or archived.  I like that feature for two reasons. First, since an item will be marked as “completed” only after she has either spanked or otherwise punished me for it, the list just keeps accumulating until she gives me a session over the ottoman (unless she adopts the “waiver” deadline that Liz suggested – we still need to talk about that).  Second, the cumulative list of “completed,” i.e. punished tasks is something we can go over periodically to see whether behavior is improving, whether she is being diligent in correcting behavior, etc.
  • Deadlines:  The app allows you to set deadlines and reminders, which are useful for tracking whether bad behavior is being addressed promptly. And, the app shows when each entry was made, which should help her monitor whether I am reporting things promptly.
  • Comments: As Liz noted last time, the individual items on a log should probably be pretty short and to the point, like “lost temper at work.”  But, the app also allows you to append a longer comment to each item.
  • Encouraging FLR and bossiness: The app allows the user to assign a “task” to another user.  So, if she wanted to, say, assign a chore and wasn’t there to do it in person, she could just enter a task and assign it to me along with a deadline for completing it.
So, this one app accomplishes a lot of what I wanted in a reporting tool or log.  There are, however, two issues.  First, the app was acquired by Microsoft, and they are ending support for it in June. But, they have their own app called To Do, which seems to have almost all the same functionality and which can import data from Wunderlist.  Second, I do still kind of like the idea of having an actual log or table listing offenses and punishments, perhaps with more information about the spanking or punishment itself.  Something along the lines of a log that Alan reported his girlfriend used to keep. So, I may use Wunderlist for reporting to Anne, but task myself with creating and updating a log.

Arthur reported on his efforts at self-reporting, noting that in some ways it is detracting from his communication with Liz because he always self-reported anyway, and he misses telling Liz about work-related incidents verbally over dinner.  I’m not sure the two are mutually exclusive, though for this experiment they have chosen to use the written reports as the main communication vehicle.  He did observe some positive aspects of writing things down, including making him take a closer look at some of his behavior: “On the other hand, I have made a couple entries of things I have said that I may not have mentioned in conversation because they didn't seem very arrogant until I thought about them. Is being a smart-ass a form of arrogance or just my kind of humor? I guess it's flirting around the edges of arrogance. Is that a slippery slope? Probably. I did get paddled more this week than in a long time (extra swats both Monday and Thursday) and I am not looking forward to this coming Monday. Maybe the log is showing me that I haven't made as much progress as I thought.”

So, I will keep trying to make headway on my own self-reporting and will report back in a few weeks. Though, in all likelihood reporting is not going to lead to any immediate change in our disciplinary frequency.  Danielle reported that one of their sons is living with them again for a short while, and we have a similar long-term houseguest situation going on.  I suspect it will keep us from really changing very much for at least a month.  Though, I will say I admire Danielle’s decision not to change her public demeanor, basically ensuring that her son knows that she is in charge.

But, on to this week’s topic. Arthur and I have both shared our concerns about our workplace behavior, and they are at least somewhat similar.  His concerns are about arrogance, while mine is about temper, but in both cases the behavior is about saying something that isn’t polite, is potentially hurtful, and might be unfair to the person on the receiving end of the behavior.  Or, it’s just kind of boorish and should be beneath us.  Edmund Burke said, “Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength.” He was right, and I’m not proud of myself when I act that way at work.   

Worse, I have to admit that my mouth or a display of bad attitude gets me into trouble at home as well.  Like Arthur, I have a pretty sarcastic and smart-ass sense of humor, and I can sometimes take that too far.  I also can sometimes have an attitude, including to my wife.  I even catch myself in it sometimes.  She’ll ask me a question, and if I think it’s silly or uninformed I may roll my eyes.  Or, she asks me an open-ended question and I give her a one-word reply.  And, every once in a great while I will display some real temper around her, like the incident I reported on last year in which she told me to turn off a movie and go to bed and I let my temper show and let her know I thought she was nagging. 

Surprisingly, she hasn’t really resorted to her spanking authority to deal with those “attitude” issues.  In fact, it’s kind of remarkable the extent to which Domestic Discipline in our home has focused on things I do and not so much what I say or how I communicate.  In fact, I can really think of only one time that she spanked me for rudeness, when she thought something I said to the one of the kids—that I thought was a joke—crossed the line into sarcasm that left hurt feelings.  There are times I catch myself doing something like an eye roll, and I myself know I probably should be paddled hard for it.  Yet, I don’t think she’s ever spanked me for copping an attitude with her or for mouthing off.  

   
I’m not really sure why, because we have flagged disrespect as a punishable offense many times.  I think maybe it is because spankings in our house tend not to happen immediately after an offense, and during the time delay between an act of rudeness or attitude and the next spanking, she’s forgotten all about it.  Or, it’s one of those things that doesn’t reach a certain level that seems to be required for her to remember that spanking is an option to put me in my place.  I think it also may be that she has not quite made the mental leap to seeing herself not just as wife who spanks for certain offenses but as a real Head of Household and maternal figure who can and should spank simply for being disrespected. 

While I definitely do not want more or harder or longer spankings, I do think it is a mistake to let incidents of disrespect or verbal offenses slide.  They can have a really pernicious impact on a relationship.   


And, if this maternal-like grant of authority we’ve talked about means anything, surely it means I can’t get away with disrespecting her.  It's also one of those "broken window" things, in which punishing "small" things might have a larger impact. If she makes me more attuned to the need to watch my mouth at home, might that make me consider things more before popping off with something inappropriate at work?

How about you?  Does your mouth sometimes get you into things your ass can’t handle?  Are you spanked for mouthing off or saying disrespectful or rude things to your wife or others?  In this age where Thanksgiving dinners descend into ideological warfare, have you spanked or been spanked for something said to a friend, relative, co-worker, service provider, etc.  Do you think you should be?  


For the wives, do you spank as often for things your husband says as for things he does or fails to do?  Is disrespect or discourtesy something you let slide too often? If you have spanked him for such things, is there a certain special satisfaction in being able to use spanking or other punishment to take him down a peg?

I hope you have a great week.

69 comments:

  1. Dan,
    The times my mouth got me into serious trouble with my wife has been where for one reason or another I was really nasty or rude to her. We both believe there are going to be times when any married couple will have words because it's normal. But Ive crossed the line a few times and ignored my wife when she gave me 'the look'. The last time my wife disciplined me for being nasty to her we were heading home from shopping and she basically said, "As soon as we get home you get your butt upstairs to our bedroom and get undressed. You're getting the cane." "Yes Dear." The part of me that craves occasional discipline couldn't wait to get home, but the other part of me knew she was angry and I didn't look forward to it. I waited upstairs and my wife lectured me about forgetting my place between strokes of the cane. It really wasn't bad, though I didn't sit comfortably the next day in work and found myself shifting and squirming at my desk. My wife text me the next day asking me, "So how you doing?" and I basically said "Its a rough day." LH

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    1. I agree -- all couples are going to have words from time to time, and it is normal. So, to me it is a matter of taking action when a line is crossed, not punishing every time he says something she doesn't agree with. And, even if I think I am right, I would rather she be able to cut things off by ordering a spanking than the flouncing and pouting that characterized how our arguments ended in the early days of our marriage

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    2. Yes
      Conflicts or bad feelings do seem to fade away today much faster than years ago. My wife and I certainly don’t. hold grudges once a matter is settled.

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  2. Interesting timing yet again. Rosa and I had a kind of attitude or rather 'tone' instance this past Thursday. (for a very detailed account you can see the February 1st post on my blog) But as stated in that post, I could not cooperate with her wishes in the moment. So we reached a mutual compromise wherein I would accept her punishment....but with a one day, cooling-off period delay. It seemed to work for both of us better than the alternative of either dropping the punishment entirely, or doing it then with a boatload of resentment to follow.

    The difference is that I am very rarely if ever DIRECTLY rude to Rosa. We aren't ugly arguers and we don't name-call. But she will get upset even if I snap at a driver who cut me off while driving. I don't get that. It has NOTHING to do with her, she's just a passenger and I feel if anything she should agree with me. But she sincerely is bothered by these sorts of things and has brought the issue up many times. So, I'm in an awkward spot. I want her to feel she can deal with what bothers her, but I don't understand her position on this at all. It certainly doesn't bother me when anyone I know blows off steam with me present......as long as it's not directed AT me as some sort of outlet for what should be directed elsewhere. But she is not like me on this at all. So, we are trying to find our "DD way" on this one......but it's tough.

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    1. I totally get the wisdom of a cooling off period. If my wife was really mad about something like an eye roll or something that I said that was very disrespectful, I actually wish she *would* spank in anger. But, when we're in a real fight about something, I almost always think I'm right at that moment. But, I often will feel totally different and see her point of view even a few hours later. FYI, like you we aren't really very "ugly arguers," and certainly no name-calling. And, as we've aged our fights are much fewer and farther between.

      I can kind of see Rosa's position, but it depends on the context. I wouldn't get mad at my wife yelling at someone who cut her off. But, I tend to get very uncomfortable observing real conflict between other people. So, if a friend did something like berating a waiter or waitress, that kind of "in person" steam blowing might get me pissed or make me very uncomfortable even if not directed at me. But, it's very contextually dependent.

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    3. (prior post deleted for spelling.) I know you amended a bit at my blog, but to be clear to readers here who may not visit there, I do want to clarify that I really wasn't rude to anyone. Not Rosa nor the clerk. I was just exasperated at the non-functioning app and was loud about the crap not working. After Rosa got HER app working I was just impatient to leave, but still not rude......more like......desperately emphatic....but too loudly for Rosa's tastes. And I agree about context. There is a wide gap between cursing an idiot driver from behind a windshield and cursing an idiot person to their face.

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    4. KD wrote:

      >>>The difference is that I am very rarely if ever DIRECTLY rude to Rosa. We aren't ugly arguers and we don't name-call. But she will get upset even if I snap at a driver who cut me off while driving. I don't get that. It has NOTHING to do with her, she's just a passenger and I feel if anything she should agree with me. But she sincerely is bothered by these sorts of things and has brought the issue up many times.<<<

      KD, I have to say, I totally get where Rosa is coming from on this. I am the same way with Wayne, and I have spanked him for exactly that. He uses the same argument as you. He tells me that he wasn’t yelling or swearing at me, so I shouldn’t be bothered by it. But the fact is, when people make an open display of negative emotions like that, it affects the mood of other people, even if those people aren’t the target of the invective. There are a couple of other reasons I feel justified in punishing Wayne for getting worked up behind the wheel of the car. One, it doesn’t solve anything, so to me it just looks immature. Two, I don’t like him to lose his cool behind the wheel of the car because I feel less safe if the person driving me is angry. On one occasion to make that point I ordered him to pull over and give the keys to me. In all honesty, he is a better driver than I am, but it felt empowering to be in the driver’s seat on the way home to paddle his bottom.
      Danielle

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    5. Hi Danielle, thanks for chiming in because it actually helped to hear from another female that this is a legitimate issue. I can't relate to it at all. Someone could go on a profane tirade for minutes on end and it wouldn't even faze me. I might even be amused or join in. So to hear you say the same thing she does is actually reassuring.

      I will ask this though: a lot of common sense advice has always been to safely let things out rather than bottle them up. It's supposed to be healthier. I already edit so much now that I feel ready to explode. If I didn't blow off steam at a bad driver I'd probably have a stroke one day behind the wheel......which wouldn't be too safe for my passengers either. Maybe Wayne feels the same?

      Now your last line sounds way more like someone who is playing with the power-thrill more than actually being practical. Rosa is like that too. ;-)

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  3. My mouth is what gets me spanked most. I've learned to do my chores on time and to her standards. It doesn't take to many spankings for that to sink in but, my mouth says things before my brain thinks about it.

    I've said rude things to my wife and used foul language which most of the time gets me spanked immediately along with a mouth soaping If we are out somewhere she will tell me when we get home I will get a spanking I won't forget.

    I know I need to watch my mouth but sometimes words come out then I know what will happen next. Sometimes it's something that is hard to control.

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    1. I had thought about adding a question about mouth-soaping as a fitting punishment but forgot to do it. It does seem like a natural fit for verbal bad acts.

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    2. Dan,
      This got me thinking about alternate types of punishment and how common it is for some disciplinarian spouses to assign a different type of discipline for certain bad acts. In my own experience I know my wife hates lies, but knows there's going to be little "white" lies and more serious ones in life. Since we work together part time in our profession I tried to cover a serious but honest mistake by lying. My wife found out and punished me with a fairly painful spanking, but later she said she seriously considered making me go and get my head shaved bald! She was very serious and thought going to work bald for a few weeks would teach me quite a lesson about honesty. Since I'm boss in work, there would be no impact to my job or career but it would raise people's curiosity.
      LH

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    3. Hi LH. It has been interesting to me the extent to which, when I've had topics on "alternative punishments," reactions tend to run very strongly *against* punishments other than spanking. It makes me wonder in those cases whether the overall goal really is deterrence, because there seems to be such resistance to things that he may be more averse to than spanking. And, some things clearly are more coercive and "persuasive" for some men than spanking. I've talked before about in incident in which my wife required me to give an apology--in a live conversation, no email--to someone I really disliked. It was incredibly humbling, and almost two years later I still think about it, while it's hard for me to recall the details of all but a few spankings. So, it clearly had an impact beyond spanking.

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    4. Hi Dan,
      You are certainly right that whenever the topic of alternative punishments comes up, there tends to be a strong negative reaction. Mentioning the use of humiliation in punishment generally elicits the same response, as I wrote in my comment below.

      I think it all boils down to the idea - to which some people so tightly cling - that a hard spanking or paddling can be delivered to a man without somehow damaging his fragile masculine ego or result in him being seen as being less manly by anyone. So it is like "we only do spanking, and then only in ways that make him seem like the very manliest of men." Personally I think that is delusional at best, since I would guess that if anyone else (man, woman, or child) happened to walk in the room while he was being spanked, the chances of them thinking he was super manly would be pretty much non-existent. But to each his or her own.

      For us, we try to highlight the momentary lowering of position, so during a spanking I am very much like a naughty little boy (or girl or baby for that matter). This allows the punishment to be more effective without her having to remove all the skin from my bottom.

      I think you are right that if the overall goal is deterrence, then people should want to use whatever works, rather than limiting everything to spankings. As you said, for you one of your most difficult punishments didn't involve spanking at all (or if it did, that wasn't the impactful part), but rather being forced to apologize face to face. I feel that punishments should be chosen based on effectiveness and where possible should "fit the crime," which leaves the door very open to alternative punishments.

      -ZM

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    5. Hi ZM. I totally agree on the "fit the crime" element, though in all honesty we haven't explored it very much beyond the one or two occasions in which she's made me apologize to someone.

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    6. Dan, ZM
      My wife and I have gotten kinkier over the years, especially since our nest became empty. On getting my head shaved I’d be less than honest if I didn’t admit there was a part of me that wished she had mandated such punishment. Certainly our marriage is at least mildly a WLM, and if one craves punishment from time to time and it has positive benefits for both spouses having punishment that had a “fit the crime” element makes sense. LH

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    7. Hi LH,
      My wife and I genuinely pursue a DD relationship, with real punishments for real infractions. At the same time, we also are quite kinky by most standards. And then to further confuse things, we both do kinky roleplay sometimes, but then also use kinky things in punishment sometimes!

      -ZM

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  4. Our whole DD relationship began because of me saying rude and disrespectful things to our children. It continues because of my arrogance at work. So this is exactly what our DD is about - my mouth.
    I have come to understand that my wife has a much better handle on what is appropriate speech than I do. The paddle is her teaching tool.
    Arthur

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    1. Thanks, Arthur. I think I have a fairly good handle on appropriate versus inappropriate speech, but I do think that she has a better feel for when teasing and verbal jousting with the kids crosses a line that I didn't see. Also, I've been told repeatedly by work friends that I come off as way more intense than I actually feel inside, the result being that I think sometimes my words intimidate people when that wasn't my intent at all.

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  5. This is Liz. I like answering Dan's questions directly.

    For the wives, do you spank as often for things your husband says as for things he does or fails to do?
    Yes, because in our DD what he says is what he does. I don't have an issue with things he fails to do. Art is very good about tasks.

    Is disrespect or discourtesy something you let slide too often?
    No. Since we are focusing on arrogance, which involved disrespect and discourtesy, I don't let much slide, nor does Art want me to. Since he is reporting borderline arrogance, I am punishing for it.

    If you have spanked him for such things, is there a certain special satisfaction in being able to use spanking or other punishment to take him down a peg?
    I guess it depends on what is meant by "take him down a peg." I am trying to help him act less arrogant and more humble. Paddling his behind definitely is humbling (he has told me that many times). Is that taking him down a peg? I'm not sure. "Taking down a peg" to me has an implication that goes beyond humility. I don't want to humiliate him or to treat him like a child or make him feel "less than" or put myself above him.

    This is adult consensual DD for a very specific purpose in a non-FLR marriage. I do admit to feeling a "special satisfaction" in helping him behave better with our children, our families and friends, and his co-workers and others he encounters. I don't think I could have accomplished that without the paddle, so it (representing our DD) does hold a place of reverence in our marriage.
    Liz
    Liz

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    1. Hi Liz. "In our DD what he says is what he does." I like that.

      I don't know exactly how to articulate this, but what I meant by "taking down a peg" is that arrogance seems to be a particularly hierarchical offense, i.e. one that is rooted in power dynamics. It's kind of inherently about seeing yourself as above people, or wanting to be perceived as being above them. By taking on that issue directly, a wife is kind of sending the message that while he may see himself as above others, she's above him at least in being empowered to whack (literally) him down when he asserts his superiority through acts of arrogance. I don't see "taking down a peg" in this context as making someone be less than what they are but, rather, bringing down the false elevation of status that seems to me to be at the heart of arrogance or, for the biblically inclined, the sin of "pride."

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    2. Hi Dan,
      I think that is an excellent distinction that you made, and perhaps it is the elusive definition of the difference between humbling and humiliating that we have discussed before. For example, I am humbled when I realize that while I may have done something pretty great, it would not have been possible without the help of many others. Being humble (or humbled) keeps me from thinking too highly of myself, or even thinking too often or too much about myself. It helps open my eyes to those around me. But it doesn't lead me to think lower of myself than I really am.

      On the other hand, I would be humiliated if I carelessly did or said something stupid and many people that didn't know me saw it and laughed. They would be thinking "what an idiot!," when in reality, I am generally intelligent enough. In this case I would feel lower than reality would probably warrant.

      So I think you are right, being "taken down a peg" doesn't necessarily imply humiliation - or being made lower than one actually is, but rather can also mean to bring someone right back to where they really are. And arrogance or pride is clearly rooted in feeling or acting superior to those around you, whether there happens to be any truth to it or not.

      Now, to muddy the waters a bit, as I so love to do... Where it turns a bit more into gray area is when humiliation is intentionally used as a tool in punishment, or at least where there is no attempt to minimize whatever inherent humiliation there might be in punishment. To make a punishment more impactful, without merely excessively increasing the impact on my rear, my wife might choose to do something that she knows is somewhat humiliating just to help drill the lesson through my thick skull. In this case, she is TEMPORARILY maximizing the power imbalance, without damaging my long-term self esteem. An example of this was after a hard punishment, she put capsaicin on my bottom and then put an adult diaper on me and sent the corner, where she said I would stay until I used it. Talk about humiliating, and talk about a dilemma, since I desperately wanted to get out of the corner, especially since the combination of the retained heat of a diaper and a hard paddling was helping the capsaicin to set my poor bottom on fire. But of course I REALLY didn't want to pee in the diaper, and then even after doing so, didn't want to tell her that I had done so. In this case, she was doing something that was clearly meant to maximize humiliation, but with both of us fully recognizing that she was intentionally doing so as part of punishment, and that it had nothing to do with our relationship or our feelings about each other.

      I recognize that humiliation is a very controversial subject and likely to solicit some negative response, but it WAS very much a part of punishments throughout history, whether putting people in public stocks hundreds of years ago, or spanking people in front of classrooms or assemblies around the time I was born or a bit earlier. And it still can be used effectively between loving partners in DD/FLR, if proper care is exercised.

      -ZM

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    3. Hi ZM. Wow! Yes, I would find that totally humiliating, and since humiliation isn't something I get off on, I can see how it would be a very effective disciplinary tool. You're obviously right that it has been a big part of punishment throughout history. I don't recall anyone being spanked in classrooms growing up, but we all definitely knew when someone was being sent to the principal's office to get one.

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  6. Omg yes ! I’ve stated here before she hates poor language. Especially the word “ aint “. I get paddled for that frequently. Dev says it makes me sound uneducated. Perhaps , but it’s a proven word. I must say that my use of the word has diminished greatly. ( at least when she’s around). JR

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    1. At the risk of arguing with your wife, I still think "ain't" is a perfectly proper word that, when used selectively and judiciously, has a certain rhetorical flourish that "isn't" just does not convey.

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    2. Now there's a debate I ain't gonna get into.

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  7. I'm spanked for attitude, though not for rudeness or anger.
    More often it's for moodiness, worry or stress, though that's a different from what you're discussing here.
    Certainly, few things get your mind focused on the here and now like a rigorous spanking session!
    CrimsonKing

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    1. For me, the two sort of overlap, because my rudeness or anger are more likely manifest when I'm tired, moody or stressed.

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  8. I will occasionally get "I heard your eyes rolling." over the phone from "Master B." Honestly, I can't help it!

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    1. Sorry if I missed this or have forgotten it, but who is Master B?

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  9. Since my wife is of the opinion that talking is the third purpose of the male tongue, my mouth often gets me into things that my ass can't handle. Not only what I say, but actually speaking at all. She often will put me under what she calls "silent service," where I am doing chores or bringing her a glass of wine or whatever and I am only to speak if I have an important question.

    When we are out, she does the majority of the talking, including ordering for me in a restaurant. When shopping, I carry the bags and chauffeur and seldom talk. If I am saying too much she will put her forefinger to her lips and shush me, including in front of others. Then I usually get spanked when we get home. However, she does very much enjoy the first purpose of the male tongue.
    Pete

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  10. One of my worst faults is interuting my wife or not listening to her , but having had quite a few 'discussions' about that I now make a conscious effort not to do it.
    If I do , she will give me a verbal 'reminder that I need to stop ...or else , which works.
    Recently when I interupted her when she was telling a story to friends , she stopped , paused and asked me "Didn't we just have a 'discussion' about that?" (she even included extra emphasis on the word 'discussion').
    Our guests did not know that she was referring to a spanking she had given me for repeated interruptions, but I knew and it shut me up fast and she proceeded to finish her story uninterrupted.

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  11. I discipline for what he says, a bad attitude or rudeness.

    I don't let rudeness "slide". If I'm present, and it seems like he's about to get out of line, I will let him know he's "pushing" it. If I get a report, I'll ask him about it. He's always honest about what happened and if I decide discipline is necessary, he submits to it.

    There's a lot of satisfaction for me in putting him in his place. If he's being rude more often than usual or pushes it more often than usual, it usually means he's disobeyed some of my other prohibitions like no pornography.

    Husband doesn't like my best friend. She was the first person who got to see him get one. The humiliation of her seeing him dressed and the other things that happen during a Disciplinary Session helped to remind him to mind his manners. Since then, I've invited some of the other ladies he's been rude to to watch him get disciplined for his rudeness. There's a ritual where he has to answer the door all dressed up, curtsey and invite her in, take her coat, if she has one and hang it up. Then he has to bring the refreshment tray. Then I send him to the corner. When I call him out of the corner, I ask him if he knows why ________ is here and he has to say why. Then I make him go over to her, curtsey, apologize for being rude and tell her that Miss Cecilia is going to discipline him for it and ask her if she'd like to watch him get his lesson. When she says yes, he has to thank her. After the Session and corner time, I send him to get dressed again and fix his makeup. When it's time for my guest to leave, he has to curtsey again, apologize again and thank her again for coming to see him get disciplined.

    It's rare he gets disciplined for anything he says when we have disagreement unless he gets really out of line. Even then, he usually gets a warning he's pushing it and if he says it again or doesn't stop with that attitude, there's going to be consequences. If he senses a disagreement starting,sometimes he says "nothing that happens is a reason for a spanking". Since we aren't full time FLR/DD, I have to respect that, but, he knows not to say that too many times. Sometimes, though, I can be evil. Since I can tell by his attitude he might be disobeying one of my prohibitions, if he gets out of line during a disagreement where he's said he can't be spanked, all I have to do is check his computer. There's usually something there. He and I both know what motivated me to check, but, I don't allow pornography. He knows that and knows he'll be spanked for it.

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    1. Hi Miss Cecilia,
      First let me congratulate you for the sharp insight that male misbehavior or moodiness sometimes points to unauthorized or disobedient sexual activity. We went through that earlier in our relationship but it took both of us a while to figure out the connection. The question I wanted to ask is about dress up as part of your discipline routine. Did he request or indicate a desire to be feminized as part of discipline or are you imposing this on him to make the discipline more severe and effective. You have mentioned this several times and I have tried to imagine my feelings if my wife required the dress up –especially in front of a witness (she only uses one witness) I have no erotic interest in wearing feminine clothing and my experience is limited to being made to wear panties for several days to reinforce a spanking I guess another way to ask this is to ask what objective you are aiming at by including the feminization along with what sounds like already strict and severe physical punishment. Thank you for anything you wish to share
      Alan

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    2. I'm always kind of fascinated by people who get "reported" by others, whether friends or co-workers. We just have no one like that who is friends with both of us and who might witness any kind of bad behavior, let alone say something about it.

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    3. To answer Alan's questions, I introduced all this to him. Everything was my idea. The feminizing came even before the chastity and spankings. It sprung out of my insecurity early in our relationship. I think I've mentioned it before, but, he had women chasing him, while I never got any men like him. I'm the Lead Assistant Manager at a large hotel here, so sometimes I have to work weekend nights. There was no reason he shouldn't get to go out to the bar, but, I worried what would happen if he got a few drinks in him and a woman went after him. My first idea was to have him wear panties as underpants. I figured if he got to some woman's home, when she took off his pants, she;d see the panties, freak out and kick him out. He kept assuring me he wouldn't cheat, but my past stuck with me. The panties didn't work out, but, one thing I noticed was he looked so cute in the panties, I wanted to dress him up with other things. He began to associate dressing up with sex.

      Another thing I noticed was he resisted a lot less when I asked him to take me places he hates to go, like antique shops or the shoe store.

      Since then, me dressing him has more than one purpose. It makes him more submissive.

      Since I use humiliation as one of my disciplinary methods, dressing him up does that job, too. If he doesn't want my best friend to see him in ruffled panties and petticoats, he'd better behave himself. Also, part of the humiliation is teasing him about being a "sissy", a "pantyboy" or even a "pervert". Even though he knows he's going to get a spanking, he still gets an erection when he's dressed, so we can tease him and humiliate him about that. His job is a traditionally masculine job. One result of his job is he's handy. he likes sports and going to games. All this is traditionally macho. Dressing him in pretty things is a contrast to all that.

      I also like it because it puts him in someone else's shoes (in his case, literally, since he's wearing heels). He likes looking at pics of women in pretty lingerie, so now he can see what it's like when women look at him in pretty lingerie. When he gets ready for a Disciplinary Sessionor if we're going to a party or event, he gets to experience what we girls go through to get ready and dress for an occasion.

      Finally, I just like seeing him dressed up. I never knew I liked seeing men in frilly things until him. While he's required to dress for discipline or chastity lock up and he has lingerie and dresses he wears only for those purposes, he also has lingerie and dresses I just like to see him in.

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    4. The way you arrived at putting him in panties is interesting to me. I've thought about that before, i.e. that for women who worry about men straying while on the road, one solution would be making them wear panties the entire trip. It seems to me that would be a pretty big deterrent.

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    5. Miss Cecilia,
      Thanks for your through answer. The panties would have been enough to insure my good behavior even in my randier days. But I can see how your "enhancement" would guarantee good results. Thanks for giving me and maybe some others a window into a part of DD that is unfamiliar. You seem to be a very proactive natural disciplinarian. Was that a part of you before this relationship or did it grow out of the relationship?
      Alan

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    6. Dan:

      The panties didn't work out, at first, but when I look back on it, it should have been the first hint at what I later discovered about dressing him up making him more submissive. After the first night I had him wear the panties to the bar, I came home, found him asleep and he still had the panties on. He said he wanted to show me he didn't take them off. This was when I thought he looked so cute in them and started dressing him in some of my other lingerie.

      He was still my boyfriend, then. I still even had my apartment, but I was spending most of my time at his house. It's closer to the hotel, anyhow. The next time I had to work a night, I handed him some panties but he said he wasn't going to go to the bar. When I asked him why not, he said he just didn't want to wear panties to the bar. I told him just go, anyhow, and when I got home he was asleep. That should have been my hint right there about feminizing, but, we weren't doing spankings, then. It also should have been a hint at just how important my feelings were to him. He loves going to that bar, drinking with his friends and watching games. He was more concerned for me than his fun.

      I was talking to my best friend about all this and she suggested a male chastity cage. I looked it up, read about it and even asked one of the professional dominatrixes who does outcalls at the hotel. I asked him (he was still boyfriend, at that point, too) about it, he said he'd try it for me. It took some trial and error, but we got it to work right. I practice two kinds of chastity with him. "Security" is what I was just talking about. There's no lockup ritual, I just drop 'em, lock him up, I go to the hotel, he goes to the bar. When the bar closes, he can come by the hotel and I'll unlock him or he can wait until I get home. There's also Disciplinary Chastity, but, that's another subject.

      Alan:

      It actually was a part of me before the relationship, but I didn't realize it. I'm the lead Assistant Manager at a large hotel in a large city. For those of you who don't know, it's the Assistant Manager who does most of the overseeing of the day to day operations of the hotel. The Hotel Manager has his job, but alot of that is PR, selling the hotel to groups and events, representing the hotel at various functions. Yes, I do run things by him and give him a briefing when he wants it, but when it comes to the day to day, I run it. I'm naturally bossy and I'm good at my job.

      On the other hand, I was always mousey in my relationships because I never had boys or men calling me around the clock. This guy had women climbing over each other to get to him. It was him who brought out the real me in a relationship. He used to tell me in the early days things like "If you want something, say so.", "If you don't like something, say so.", "You run this hotel and you're always telling people there what you want but you're afraid to tell your boyfriend what you want?".

      Finally, i just started telling him what I wanted and what I liked or didn't. If I'm confronted with a problem at the hotel, I look at it and come up with a way to deal with it. I started doing the same thing in my relationship. It's how we got where we are today. Fortunately, I got a wonderful guy who'll do anything to make me happy or to address my needs.

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    7. Cecilia,
      Your experience seem to illustrate how empowering a women allosw the expression of their inner self and natural assertiveness. ( and sometimes inner Dom)Wishing you the best with your relationship but doubt you need any help. You seem to have things well under control and a happy husband to boot
      Alan

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  12. Danielle here:

    Dan, I’m not sure I have anything to say that I haven’t said before in earlier discussions, but I like these questions.

    >>>For the wives, do you spank as often for things your husband says as for things he does or fails to do?<<<

    More often than not, spankings are triggered by attitude rather than a mere failure to do something. If he fails to do something to my satisfaction, I generally lecture him about it and make him complete the task properly. If he accepts my guidance humbly, I usually see no reason to spank him. But if he gets snippy or rolls his eyes or starts to argue and make excuses, I might say, “Okay, you know what? If that’s the way you are going to be, you can just go to bedroom and take your pants down.” Sometimes he will even try to argue about that, but when I speak sternly, he obeys. After I have paddled him, he is always respectful and obedient. It doesn’t even have to be harsh. With the hairbrush or paddle, or for real emphasis the strap, I can adjust his attitude nicely in 5 minutes.

    >>>Is disrespect or discourtesy something you let slide too often?<<<

    I have been letting it slide lately because of problems previously mentioned: health problems for Wayne and a lack of privacy with our adult son living at home. Since attitude adjustment spankings are quick and spontaneous, having our son in the house has saved Wayne from some of those. But that’s not working, so I have decided to stop letting a lack of privacy cramp my style. I feel that my recent lack of strictness hasn’t done Wayne any favors.

    >>>If you have spanked him for such things, is there a certain special satisfaction in being able to use spanking or other punishment to take him down a peg?<<<

    Oh yes! Extremely satisfying. Wayne is smart, and he can be very argumentative and often sarcastic. He can be overbearing in arguments, and it doesn’t help that people in his family think he is brilliant. As I’ve explained before, I grew up with a brother who was like that, so I’m sensitive about it. So yes, humbling him that way feels great!

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    1. As an adult, I see spanking as a method of punishment chosen only because of its effectiveness at bringing about a sense of humility. Otherwise, there are any number of adult ways to be punished where your dignity is better preserved. In any situation of being in trouble, if it wasn’t for that humility, I would probably choose spanking over other forms of punishment. The physical pain is usually preferable to some form of losing privileges or unwanted tasks to perform. It is definitely the embarrassment and feeling of total surrender to such an intimate level of control that is so difficult and forces a demonstrable transformation of attitude.

      The relationship that works for me doesn’t require a having to walk on eggshells. I can be myself. The drama as I knew it growing up as an adolescent was that getting spanked was a very large downfall. I often had a rebellious attitude towards authority. I tended to think I knew it all, and I engaged in sarcasm. I thought I should be independent like an adult and able to express myself, including my anger or “superior” opinion. I really didn’t like to hurt people’s feelings, but my immaturity could get the best of me. If I did do something obviously bad or irresponsible, I sincerely believed I was too old for a spanking. So what was the truly powerful antidote to those attitudes? Humility with a capital ‘H’. In an FLR, my wife could also administer that most effective prescription. I’m no longer an immature kid, but that doesn’t mean I can always control those attitudes. A strong dose of humility doesn’t fundamentally change one’s character, but it demonstrates boundaries and where authority resides, and for some measure of time after, attitude is modified for the better.

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  13. Guilty at times of my mouth getting me into trouble. Once, I recall working with her on an outdoor project, We became at odds and I lost it. I smart mouthed her and we both realised it immediately. No words were spoken as we both walked into the barn, I bared my ass and she paddled me at length. We then went back to the project and completed it her way. Another time, we were at a friends home with mixed company (lifestyle and vanillas) when I said something to a friend. She excused us and took me to another room and scolded me. Then told me to lower my jeans as I was to be spanked. There were no implements in the room, so she removed my wide belt from my pants and soundly belted my bare ass.....everyone in the next room could hear and there was no doubt I was being spanked. Most of the time my mouth get me in trouble is for foul language. I am always spanked for that. My former Dominant would have included a good mouth soaping along with the spanking.

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    1. How do the vanillas react, if at all, when something like that happens? Did they know that other attendees were lifestyle?

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    2. Hi Spanked Cowboy,
      I can relate to what you are saying. We have also been at a party and my wife heard me starting to argue with one of the guests and she asked the hostess if there was someplace we could talk. The hostess said go use the master bedroom where my wife took me and bared my bottom and spanked me with her hairbrush. I don't know if anyone heard it because no one said anything but I was embarrassed anyway.

      Other times while entertaining at out home my wife has taken me upstairs to the bedroom and paddled me. It wasn't until about a year later when my wife's sister told her that everyone was able to hear what was going on through the heat runs.

      My wife might have told the neighbor she spanks me because just last summer we were in the living room and I was over my wife's knee and she was really scolding me and spanking me when there was a knock on the door. My wife said who is it and the neighbor said it's Melody. Then my wife said come in. She then told her she just put me over her knee to spank me for arguing and she will be done in a few minutes. My wife then just started cracking that paddle in rapid fire speed until I was crying and promising to be good then put me in the corner while her and the neighbor went to the Kitchen for coffee.

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    3. Hi Dan, I agree with you, the embarrassment of being spanked at a friends home was one of the most humiliation spankings I received, even though nobody actually it. Returning to the group with my face as red as my ass was awful. So far, I have been spanked at home in front or with the knowledge of lifestyle guests, but for some reason, not as embarrassing. Our lifestyle friends know our situation and realize a spanking is just part of life. A I have stated here several times, I am a spanked adult submissive male and not ashamed of it.
      Having a neighbor arrive during a spanking must have been humiliating for you. I agree, she must have been told prior as now walking in on you was not shocking to her. Thanks for the insight.

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  14. Interesting reactions. Not really sure if vanillas new there were other lifestylers, including us, in the group. As you know the sound of leather on bare flesh is unmistakable, so lifestyle folks either winked or nodded in my direction as I returned to the group. Some vanillas stated with jaws dropped in disbelief while others just shook their heads. One actually came up to me and said, was that what I think it was??? I replied "Yes, I have just been spanked." I was told to apologize to the hostess and she said, like everyone else, she knew what was going on and only wished she could have witnessed my spanking.

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  15. Hi Dan,
    When I saw the topic as “attitude,” I was thinking that it would be an easy topic, since I have been spanked multiple times for bad attitudes in general, as I have written here before. In fact, I have been spanked more for attitude than for bad behavior or not getting things done. But for me it has been more for grumpiness, making her feel bad for staying out too late, and things like that. However, you kind of took it a different and interesting direction by asking specifically about being punished for verbal transgressions like saying disrespectful or hurtful things, or excessive sarcasm (which for me can easily become cynicism). When I thought “attitude,” verbal things never even crossed my mind, though now that I think about it, there is no doubt that it is ALL about attitude, and often the first cue when there is a bad attitude brewing beneath the surface.

    I don’t think have I been punished for saying something disrespectful or rude to her, likely because I don’t say many things like that at all, she is quite forgiving, and also because like your wife, she probably simply hasn’t gotten to the point that she might automatically resort to spanking for minor disrespect.

    However, she has punished me once or twice for being particularly hard on our youngest teenager. I guess I want to toughen him up for the real world, but in fact as I look back, I have made it quite impossible for him to meet my standards, he doesn’t have a super strong self-image, and I am often very sarcastic. Of course, I am always THINKING I am being funny, but probably it has crossed over to me hurtfully picking on him in many cases. Each time she has mentioned this, I have been pretty defensive about it, because I don’t like it that she automatically takes his side, but excluding him and the underlying issues that I pick on from the whole thing (which may or may not be right), my words are often more biting than they should be. In those cases, especially since I can’t recognize it at the moment, she really is right to punish me with her harshest punishments, since I simply hate the thought that I would feed our son’s insecurity.

    Other than that particular issue, she never has punished for verbal attitude, but one attitude that often results in choice words is when someone does something bad while I am driving. Just to be clear, when it happens, I am in the right! They pull out in front of me, stop in the middle of the road, and basically drive like idiots, all of which is not OK. Having said that, I am responsible for my response, and my attitude gets pretty bad pretty quickly when I am behind the wheel, especially in traffic. In those cases, when she is in the car with me for sure, and probably even other times, she probably should also punish me, because I need to get my attitude in check before I injure myself or someone else.

    I’ll ask her for her response to the questions for wives, and possibly we will write in together on that.

    -ZM

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    1. As discussed above, I have a similar problem with saying thing more forcefully or being taken more seriously than I intend. I have kind of a booming baritone voice, and it adds an intensity to my words that I don't always appreciate.

      It's funny that you and KD both have wives who get angry about your driving. It doesn't come up with us, because my wife drives about 99% of the time when we're together. Where driving is concerned, she gets very angry with me for criticizing her driving.

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    2. Hi Dan,
      Yeah, I think I come across as a lot more intense, and probably a lot more irritated than I usually am. In my mind, I am just trying to make a point, usually with sarcasm thrown in. But to the other party, they don't know what is actually going on in my head, so they see a lot more anger or bad feelings than there are. And since it happens with our teenager, it probably happens with others, but I just don't recognize it since I am in my own little bubble.

      Regarding driving, I wasn't saying that my wife gets mad at me when I drive, but I can see that it doesn't make her very happy when I get all angry and blow up while driving. Until now, she has not said anything about it, but I can see that it makes her feel uncomfortable, so I was saying that probably she SHOULD address it.

      I am sure that your wife does get very angry when you criticize her driving, but after all, when she is driving you have nothing else to do at that time but watch and offer criticism! ;-)

      -ZM

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    3. That is why my wife drives almost everywhere we go together. Early in our relationship ( actually while still dating) she spanked me so often for what she deemed bad behavior behind the wheel that we mutually decided the best thing was for her to drive which please her considerably. Incidentally that is one problem spanking didn't solve for us but it did lead to the solution we finally reached
      Alan

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  16. I made sure Monday that Art's ass could not handle the trouble his mouth got him in. He confirmed that today when he asked to forego our usual Thursday morning paddling because he was so bruised. I asked him to show me, and he did. I guess I don't know my own strength!
    His severe paddling Monday was due to several sarcastic comments he made Friday, first at work and then at the dinner table. He was in rare form. Which resulted in a rare behind Monday morning.
    He has apologized to me and the children. I am not going to repeat his dinner table remarks.
    At work, his boss asked him what he thought of a meeting that just was ending, and he said very sarcastically in front of everyone, "We should have a lot more meetings like this." Then later he asked a subordinate if he understood the term "quiet as a church mouse." His arrogance was rampant. Then my paddle was.
    Liz

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    1. Hi Liz,
      Wow, now THAT sounds like a hard paddling. I used to often have bruises that would last for several days or even a week or more, but recently it seems that no matter how bad my bottom looks when she finishes, the next day it looks completely untouched, even if I am still feeling the effects. You must have really been swinging that paddle!

      -ZM

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    2. Same here -- I now seem to be almost completely immune to bruising.

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    3. I haven't gotten there yet and maybe never will. I still have bruises from Monday that are changing colors and even where I am bruised.
      Arthur

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    4. Arthur: How long have you been doing DD? It took several years before my bruising dropped off to almost nothing.

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    5. Dan,
      I added a comment the other day but I guess blogger might have been acting up. I just wanted to chime in that my wife and I both observed that I don't really bruise anymore. I get red or red stripes but they fade quickly, though I still feel tender. I think regular or hard discipline probably does toughen up the skin over time, at least on some of us. The last time I had an angry bruise was when my used the longer cane in a session. She could actually sense that cane really hurt and stopped using it. I was trying to act properly submissive and didn't say anything, but the way I was moving and wiggling must have showed her it was very painful. My wife switched to the short cane to complete the session.
      LH

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    6. I've had a similar experience with the cane, though the bruising was on my hip, where the tip wrapped around. And, it's odd that even a very, very hard paddling doesn't cause me to bruise anymore, yet I lost my footing on some concrete stairs last year and landed very hard on my ass, and I was horribly bruised for over a week

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    7. Dan,
      Wow. I slipped all the way down some icy stairs a couple of years back. I didn't get hurt badly but I protected the back of my head instinctively, and I got scraped up on my back. Then I got a weird horseshoe shaped black and blue on my rear end. Concrete or concrete blocks or stairs probably cause more damage because they're hard and have no give. A person falls on them closer to dead weight. A cane or paddle hurts in a concentrated area, but probably isn't swung hard enough to cause the same injury. My wife likes a shorter cane we have, though mercifully doesn't use too often. Even though she's thin I bet if she ever threw her entire body weight into a swat of that cane or even a paddle, the pain would just drop me and the bruising would be wicked. It is interesting to speculate on. LH

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    8. It was surprising, precisely because I had been given so many really had paddlings that did not result in bruising. But, that fall left a huge, angry bruise across both cheeks. Worse, I had a very long flight the next day, and it was incredibly painful having to sit for hours.

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  17. Attitude. Now there's a hot topic! Pretty much every punishment I have ever received (and that heads into the hundreds ...) has been for what would be best covered by 'attitude' or more specifically 'disrespect'. Right from the start of this journey when I finally opened up about my interest in spanking she seized upon modifying or negatively rewarding my tendency towards sarcasm, rudeness & disrespect. I have a short temper, a proper flash point which has been a problem even though it fizzles out pretty quickly. All aspects have improved or been improved by regular applications of the strap and more recently backed up by a particularly sore, stingy synthetic cane and an old fashioned rattan item...

    I got double this morning after a couple of pain free weeks for some (even by my standards) bad attitude which for the first time got to the point where I got out of position whilst I was being lectured, showed a bit of temper and stomped off. When I (and she ) had calmed down I was 'advised' to let her know when I would be ready to ask for a very increased punishment or to move into the spare room. She then went out for a couple of hours by which tome I was desperate to get the inevitable out of the way. I did as I was told, asked and was made to wait some time before the event which was special even by her high standards...

    We have now 'agreed' that I am on report until further notice which means I make a daily 'marks out of ten' entry into our shared journal on my behaviour towards her. Which I have to say is probably fair enough given my earlier rebellion ...

    So yes, attitude is front on mind for now and for some time ...

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    1. Hi STB. My temper is like yours — it flares quickly but also fizzles quickly. Which I guess is better than holding grudges.

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  18. L. knows he will get spanked or whipped both for what he says (esp. for HOW he says it!) and for what he does (or, more frequently, for what he fails to do). I don't think I am particularly short-tempered, but never have I failed to deliver whatever punishment I think he needs and/or deserves - even if may be witnessed (or just overheard). In fact, I believe that any chastising I may administer under the eyes -or within earshot- of friends, or even relative "strangers" will leave him with a stronger reminder of what earned him his "demerits" (aside from how long his derrière may carry the marks of the paddle, the cane, the crop, the strap or the whip)...
    J

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  19. I must admit that being spanked or whipped in the presence of some of my wife's friends -and some times with their "assistance"! - is something I never fail to remember, even though the "shame" I once experienced is not as overwhelming as it was when N. (my late wife) first decided that a "public" spanking could be "beneficial' - as well as "instructive"!
    L

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  20. L: You know you WILL be spanked tomorrow - in observance of Valentine's Day - as you have been every year :-) - but that will be a relatively mild spanking... unless you give me cause to be more severe! None of my friends will be present, although I may call my sister in France to let her hear how it sounds :-)
    J.

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