Saturday, January 25, 2020

The Club - Meeting 328 - Reporting & Communication Tools


“Nothing quite encourages as does one's first unpunished crime.”- Marquis de Sade

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

For me, this week was in some ways a testament to the short shelf-life of resolutions. I’ve been fighting some kind of bug that’s left me really drained, and I had a lot of work-related travel.  My workout goals dissipated down to almost nothing.  And, I ended up with one totally discretionary work happy hour that tired me out even more.  Yet, I honestly don’t feel too guilty about any of that.  The plain fact is, I felt really awful for the better part of two weeks, and it’s hard to sustain focus on anything when you feel like that.  I simply didn’t have the energy to exercise, and exercising when you’re sick may just leave you even more depleted.  As for the happy hour, I’m on the road constantly these days, and there are times that a subordinates just need to decompress with the group leader and get some personal attention, which is what I did.  So, this is one of those weeks when my behavior very well may earn me a spanking, but I can’t really bring myself to feel very chastened.  Now, the challenge of course is not to let this become a pattern for the year, which is where Domestic Discipline has something to offer even at times like this when I don’t feel particularly bad about something I did or didn’t do.  It establishes boundaries, hopefully preventing a respite from peak performance becoming “too much of a good thing.”

Last week’s topic went in kind of an interesting direction, didn’t it? The topic was consistency, but by mid-week it had morphed into a discussion about self-reporting. That happens sometimes, with topics going in an unintended direction. But, generally, that’s a good thing.  It is indicative of an actual discussion.  Self-reporting also seems to be a topic that people really latch on to, and it stirs a good deal of actual debate.  I’ve addressed it repeatedly on the blog, including about this time last year, and it almost always draws thoughtful, if sometimes passionate, responses.  ZM provided us with his position on this and bit of an historical retrospective:

I was reminded this week that self-reporting and journaling are real hot button issues which quite frankly is quite surprising to me. As I said earlier this week, I am happy that it works for others, but I don't see why proponents of it are SO adamant that it needs to be part of DD. I was looking back to find one of the strongest statements about it, made by one of our long-lost-but-not-really-missed "flouncers," Elizabeth about a year ago:

‘He has to confess, and he does that by keeping an honest and complete journal. Those of you who are unwilling to come clean and instead are expecting your wife to find out about all your misbehavior are living in a dream world. It's dishonest and disrespectful.’

I am fine with the suggestion that maybe keeping a journal might help with consistency, as well as provide opportunity for self-reflection. Also, if you wife is in charge and she wants self-reporting, then by all means report! But I bristle at any suggestion that those who don't keep a journal and self report are not serious about DD, or even worse dishonest and disrespectful. My wife doesn't want self-reporting. If I did so, then THAT would be disrespectful.

That is close to my own position, though my wife has said that she does like and want more self-reporting.  In fact, late last year as we were talking about how to ramp things up with respect to both Domestic Discipline and FLR, self-reporting was the one thing she identified that really needed to happen if things were going to get more consistent.

Alan, however, offers a bit of “real world” counterpoint regarding the challenges that men faced with the prospect of real discipline contend with when it comes to self-reporting:

“I agree completely that a husband who conceals misbehavior or fails to self-report is setting his wife up to fail on consistency. But, at the same time, you are identifying perhaps the central paradox in adult discipline: those areas of my life where I need her consistent discipline are exactly where I try to avoid it. And like Dan and many other men who have reported it, I cannot bring myself to self-report behavior that is going to get me punished.”

I’m with Alan on this. We both acknowledge that not self-reporting does make consistency really difficult, and we both acknowledge we want and need consistency.  So, when we don't report, we are necessarily dooming the DD relationship as a whole, but we are making consistency pretty impossible. ZM’s quote by Elizabeth is right in that respect; there is simply no way a wife is going to detect all bad behavior on her own.  But, on the other hand, how realistic is it to think that someone who has asked someone to impose discipline on them because they have trouble doing it themselves will  magically develop such self-discipline when it comes to reporting that same conduct?  That is Alan's point.  In the real world, aren't most offenses reported when the offender knows he's going to get caught anyway?


That prospect of getting caught was very real when we were kids.  That's why the threat of "get a spanking at school, get a harder one at home" had real teeth.  Most schools didn't rely on self-reporting.  Notes went home to the parents after a spanking was imposed at school.  Report cards were generally mailed, not sent home with the student whose card was slathered in Fs.  Unfortunately, as adults when we screw up at work or commit an offense outside our disciplinarian's view there seldom is a mechanism by which our wives will hear about it anyway.


I'm trying to be honest about the problems some men have with self-reporting, but that doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't do better.  That's certainly true in my case.  Unlike ZM, my wife has indicated that she wants self-reporting, so I recognize I do need to try to do a better job on that.  That's why Liz's interest and suggestions last week were timely and appreciated.  Her husband does self-report, yet Liz still had some thoughts on what a good self-reporting process might look like.  Combining a couple of her comments, Liz suggested:

“Dan, here's an idea for next week: Challenge your followers (and yourself) to keep a log for 3-4 weeks and then report back here how it worked as a DD tool. I asked Art and he is willing to do it rather than tell me about his work (mis)behavior each evening. You could even set time limits for the self-report and the review: Husband must report his misbehavior within 48 hours or an additional penalty is added. Wife must apply discipline within 5 days of the report or it is waived.”

I like Liz’s suggestion in three respects.  First, it is concrete, including specific expectations regarding deadlines.  Second, it proposes some additional penalty for failing to report (though that part was not concrete).  Third, it is bilateral and mutual with respect to consequences.  Yes, the husband must self-report and faces consequences if he doesn’t act diligently and in a timely manner.  But, the wife also has to be diligent and risks losing the authority to punish for that offense if she doesn’t take care of business in a timely manner.

I suspect that last part—waiving a punishment if it goes unpunished for a certain period of time—is going to be controversial.  Yet, I think the underlying premise—that it takes two to tango and both sides have to respect their roles—is part and parcel of the way a genuine DD relationship has to work and even more so any relationship that purports to be involve a real power exchange such as a Female Led Relationship.  There is a lot of lazy leadership that gets forgiven in these relationships under the rubric of the wife having authority not to discipline and all the concerns about “topping from the bottom.”  Any genuine form of leadership takes active engagement. It’s like saying I’m a good master to a new puppy if I allow him to pee on the floor nine times but on the tenth I rap him on the nose with a newspaper.  Yeah, maybe I’m still his master, but am I a good one?  Am I actually being effective and fair in that role?

The theoretical point that it takes two to make any aspect of DD work has a real-world component in my own DD relationship.  Anne and I have talked about this self-reporting issue time and time again.  I’ve proposed any number of procedures and processes.  I’ve spent hours drafting forms and “report cards” and given them to her for approval.  Here are just a few examples:



 
 
Yet, it never seems to become a solid thing for us.  You can and should blame it on me for dropping the ball.  I suggest a certain process for filling out the forms, but then it doesn't happen.  Still, that is only half the equation.  I have given her the authority to impose rules she wants followed and to impose consequences for failure to follow those rules.  So, if she really does care about me reporting, versus just telling me she cares about it, then why hasn’t she suggested a better process or enforced one that I've suggested.  Why hasn't she just picked up a paddle on a Saturday afternoon and given me a good hard session simply for not giving her a weekly report that morning as we had discussed the week before?  Instead, we talk, and talk, and talk about it, and we both are serious in the moment about wanting to happen.  Yet, it doesn't, and in a real relationship where there has been a real power exchange, do I really bear all the responsibility for not implementing a better self-reporting program?

In that vein, Alan offered the following observations on Liz’s suggestion:

This actually can work maybe with some modification such as shortening both the reporting interval and the time a wife has to administer. However, my experience is that it impacts the disciplinarian as much as the naughty boy. My former girlfriend used a version of it we called the "24 hour rule" (don’t remember which of us came up with the idea but remember she liked it). It didn't require any self-reporting from me, but it did require that she administer any punishment she ordered within 24 hours or it was waived. In practice, it produced more spanking on the spot or as soon as we returned home. She did use a log but only to record formal punishments including the date, instruments used, offense punished and a 1-10 evaluation of how well I accepted it. I also had to sign it before I was allowed to pull my pants back up. Very humbling as I remember but also very effective.”

Liz had also focused on the concept of using logging or journaling, though she was looking at it as a reporting tool: “I would envision a simple log that lists the date of the entry followed by a few words about the misbehavior- what happened and when. Example: ‘Sarcastic to co-worker yesterday.’ It would be at the discretion of the disciplinary wife to punish for the entry, seek more information, do nothing, etc. Personally, Art and I do not need such a journal because he self-reports. But the idea obviously interests me. I like the concept of having all of the misbehavior listed in one place in clear black and white.” Of course, one log could fulfill both purposes, i.e. self-reporting offenses and then logging the punishment once it occurs.

As I said, unlike ZM’s wife, mine does want me to self-report.  I do so, but it’s not reliable or systematic. That’s my failure. She doesn’t really enforce the self-reporting requirement, and many offenses that I do report or that she personally observed or otherwise knows about often don’t happen or are delivered many days after the offense occurred. Those are her areas for improvement.  While I’ve proposed many systems for reporting, drafted forms, provided them to her with suggestions about putting a real system in place, neither of us really follows up. 

Yet, we both see a lot of value in reporting offenses, talking about my behavior, and making sure she is informed about what’s going on in my head.  And, it’s not just in service of the goal of enabling her to more effectively detect and deter bad conduct.  She likes knowing what is going on in my life, and like many men I’m not always real verbose about my internal state of mind and about things that are bothering me. That’s why we instituted a journal that I am to give to her periodically. That one has worked reasonably well, though not perfect by any means.  I do send her journal entries fairly regularly, though I need to increase the frequency to at least weekly. I could use it as a reporting tool, and to some extent I do, but it’s much more ambitious than a log and it takes a lot of time on my end.

Summing all this up, given that my wife, unlike ZM’s, does want me to self-report, I would like to have something separate and apart from the journal that really focuses on reporting and documenting offenses and their consequences.  I’d like us to have a real system in place that we actually observed more in the practice than the breach.  An ideal system would have the following features:
  • Simple – Wouldn’t try to do too much.  It would serve as a simple means of reporting and documenting offenses and consequences.
  • Useful forward and backwards – clear as to dates for the offenses, reporting and the punishment, both to aid in making sure discipline is reported and addressed consistently and to serve as a historical log in order to assess progress or just reminisce about how our DD relationship has developed over time.
  • Light weight – easy to access and simple to use
  • Mutual reporting – both parties would have the opportunity and the obligation to report offenses or, in her case, convey dissatisfaction with any aspect of my behavior
  • Secure – not easily accessed by anyone but the two of us
The problem with the journal is it really meets only one or two of those requirements.  In theory, it could be lightweight, but in practice many of the entries are quite long, and they kind of have to be the fulfill the purpose of letting her know what I have going on.  It took me a while, but I did figure out a way to make it relatively secure.  I write it in Pages (Apple’s word processing program), save it with a password that only she and I know, and send it by email or text.  She can open and review it at her convenience, but to gain access to it someone would have to know the passwords to both the file and to whatever device she has it on.  The journal does help serve as a historical compilation of my thoughts and observations about our DD and FLR relationship, but you would have to dig through hundreds of pages to get to simple information about what offenses happened and when, and it would be very spotty in identifying whether they were ever addressed.

So, all in all, I think we need something different from the journal.  Something that is more like a log and less like a diary. Ideally, it would be something we both can, and must, access regularly but that is secure from prying eyes. It would be something I must use to report behaviors that have been identified as punishable or that I believe should be punished, and it should be something where she enters things I’ve done that she thinks need to be dealt with, like disrespect or inattention that I might not have thought of as an offense at the time or that I failed to report.  It also should allow her to note whether punishment will be given and of what type (spanking, grounding, etc.). And, it should allow us to document whether the punishment actually did happen.

In today’s wired and networked world, wouldn’t you think there would be some kind of shared app or electronic tool that would allow two parties to enter information securely and be notified when changes or additions were made?  For all I know, there is.  Maybe something like Google Docs or a document shared in iCloud?  I haven't worked much with shared docs, but surely something like that could be made to work?  Maybe some of you have personal experience with such tools and have ideas about how they could be used for DD logging and reporting?  Or, maybe you’ve arrived at some non-electronic system that really works for you for reporting bad behavior, discussing whether it will be punished and when, and then documenting whether the consequences ever actually happened?

So, first, for those of you who are interested, I will take up Liz’s challenge and encourage others to do the same. I will pledge that over the next week I will talk to my wife (again) about putting an actual system in place and about how we can build in some regular processes to support it.  Unlike our earlier efforts that focused only on my duty to self-report, I’m going to suggest that we adopt something like Liz’s suggestion as to deadlines: I have to report within 48 hours, and punishment must happen within a small number of days or its waived.   

But, that leaves several questions unanswered, like what is the “extra” punishment if an offense is not reported?  Moreover, what do we do to ensure that we actually implement it this time after so many other efforts?  For those who are interested, let’s take up Liz’s challenge with whatever tweaks and modifications you think might be beneficial, then I’ll ask for updates in a month or so.

I do realize this topic is really just an extension of last week’s comments, and I know that some wives aren’t interested in the whole reporting thing.  But, the whole “reporting” string of comments started mid-way through the week, and it could merit some further discussion and fleshing out.  And, even those who aren’t interested in self-reporting might have ideas to share with those who are.  So, here are a few questions people might be able to help address:

  • Is the Disciplined Husband in your relationship required to self-report offenses?  If so: 
    • How reliably does he do that? 
    • Is there any formal procedure for it or deadlines associated with it? 
    • What happens after he reports?  Is there some obligation on the Disciplinary Wife’s part to punish it within a certain time, or at least communicate a decision about whether he will be punished?
    • What are the consequences for not reporting or for not doing it promptly?  An extra spanking?  A harder spanking?  Some non-spanking punishment? 
  • Do you keep a log or journal that tracks offenses and/or punishments?  What form does it take?
  • Are there any apps or other electronic tools that you use to track or communicate about offenses and punishments?  If not, can you think of anything a couple might use that would allow for: 
    • Mutual logging of offenses 
    • Notices to update the log or notices that a log has been updated 
    • Security and privacy
  • Or, maybe you prefer a paper journal or log.  If so, how do you keep it secure from prying eyes?  Or, is that something you even care about?  
  • Finally, given that even the best system depends on human beings implementing it and sticking to it, what are your ideas on how to make the reporting and the punishment actually happen?
 Thanks in advance for all your input.  Have a great week. 

62 comments:

  1. My wife and I did try using a Report Card for a while but it was not for long as it is actually a lot of work to complete.Even Teachers hate preparing report cards and discussing results with students!
    It was also too formal and predictable , I think the most effective punishments are those which are spontaneous and unexpected.
    It's always best when she takes the lead and keeps us on our toes.
    Who hasn't experienced that feeling of guilt when she unexpectedly announces that 'we need to talk or sends us a text or telephone message that we need to report to her for discipline.

    As far as self reporting goes my experience has been that she is generally not interested in disciplining for things that happened at work or do not directly affect her or our relationship.

    One thing that has worked for us is regular lunches or dinners for just the two of us , giving both of us a chance to bring up issues which may or may not require discipline.
    Me:
    "I'm sorry for losing my temper last week"
    Her:
    "I will be dealing with that when we get home"

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    1. Hi Glen. In fact, didn't I get the template for that second agreement from you? I like it, but you're right, it was hard to complete every week. Plus, it really required physical printing, which meant either printing a new one each time or potentially leaving a set of blank forms around. I actually like the idea of paper forms or a paper log or journal. But, something that can be kept and exchanged electronically certainly has the benefit of security.

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    2. Yes one of those versions is mine Dan.The old fashioned way takes time which nobody has these days unfortunately. I'm sure somebody will come up with an app soon!

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    3. Certainly the most aesthetically pleasing of the various forms I've found or made! Unfortunately, it will fall to someone else to make such an app. I have zero skills in that area.

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  2. Those report cards and logs you showed as examples are very well done. The challenge is to settle on just one of those and, however reluctantly, put the others aside. One tool seems like the right approach - if you go the self-reporting tools route.

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  3. Danielle here:

    I think this discussion really brings out the difference between a DD arrangement in which the disciplinarian wife is providing discipline to help the husband meet agreed upon behavioral goals and a full blown FLR in which the wife sets the goals unilaterally. I have never required Wayne to tell on himself so that I can punish him for misdemeanors I haven’t noticed. If he is respectful, obedient, and attentive, and he keeps house to my satisfaction, I would see no need to discipline him for things that don’t meet the eye.

    There have been times that I have pried into his secret behaviors, but only for practical reasons. For example, if I came home from work and noticed that he appeared not to have done much housework, I might interrogate him on what he had been up to. Often, that would lead to a red faced confession that he got carried away looking at porn and wasted time he could have spent more profitably. Sometimes he would try to make excuses for not getting much done, but he is very bad at lying when I look him in the eye and ask direct questions, so the truth would come out and he would be punished more harshly for trying to lie.

    But as long as I was happy with his behaviour, attitude, and performance of duties insofar as those things affected me, I felt no need to make him confess his sins.

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    1. Hi Danielle. It may reflect a difference, though I think there can be overlaps. I'm not sure it's all that rare for wives in DD relationships to focus punishment, and any reporting requirements, on things that really impact them. The impression I've gotten is that those who discipline for work behavior or other things that don't impact them directly are the exception and not the rule.

      Your comment does make me wonder whether the wives who express dissatisfaction with a husband not reporting are missing one pleasure of having power -- interrogating the other party until they fess up.

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    2. Thank you for this interesting discussion. Sorry I can’t provide useful answers to the questions posed.

      Since FLR is more an attraction to a dynamic for me, and less a practical means to attain desired goals, I again find Danielle’s discipline to be a better model for what I want to imagine. The model that resonates for me is based on parental discipline. She makes the rules; I don’t task her with providing motivation for what I want to achieve. Like how I was raised, there are no report cards filled out, no logging of infractions by the one being disciplined. As with a parent, I should tell her about anything substantial that happens if it happens because, as a trusted partner, it is her business to know. Otherwise, life goes on, and I’m happy or relieved to avoid trouble. If she sees something that is unacceptable to her, then she decides what discipline to impose. For me that’s a scene where her authority is best demonstrated, and the humbling is most profound. I don’t want to be in a position that could be interpreted as asking for punishment, and a system of self-reporting would feel more like a system of self-fulfilling prophecy.

      I am not offering a value judgment of self-reporting. It could be highly effective, depending on what you’re wanting to achieve.

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    4. "The model that resonates for me is based on parental discipline. She makes the rules; I don’t task her with providing motivation for what I want to achieve." Both come in to play for me. On the one hand, the parental discipline model is HIGHLY appealing to me, including authority of the peremptory, discretionary, "because I told you so" variety. But, I also am doing this to try to get better at certain things and correct certain deficiencies. But, I don't think the two are necessarily that different. A mother or father may spank for a bad report card. The difference is just that the report card comes from the school, not from the student.

      Which leads to your other point: "I don’t want to be in a position that could be interpreted as asking for punishment, and a system of self-reporting would feel more like a system of self-fulfilling prophecy." I agree, and that is why I like Alan's thoughts on a time limit, because I think it would make self-reporting almost irrelevant in many cases, as she would see much of the bad behavior and act on it. There would still be areas where I have to report things that she doesn't witness, but didn't that too occur under a lot of old-fashioned parental discipline scenarios, i.e. if you got spanked at school or did something else that was bad you were supposed to tell your parents and, if you didn't, the resulting punishment at home was even worse.

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    5. That makes good sense to me, Dan. When I refer to parental discipline, it’s defined by my family experiences growing up and, to a lesser extent, a few other families I knew where parents took a certain view on how spanking was to be implemented. For example, I would not be spanked at home after a paddling at school. I felt no obligation to tell my parents about it, as the school had already handled the issue. If I became a problem the school chose not to address at school, my parents would be notified by them, and then that would be bad news for me. Corporal punishment was the penalty for crimes or failures that rose to a certain level of seriousness, but I don’t remember my parents ever telling me that I was expected to report such a thing. It was common sense that I shouldn’t hide anything like that from them, but it was also no surprise to anyone that a kid would most likely have to be caught to be in trouble. There’s an ideal to consider, but it wasn’t typical that we turned ourselves in, and we certainly didn’t keep a running record of our behavior.

      There are other parental models that are entirely realistic. What drives me toward a Female Led Relationship is a personal connection to my own adolescence. I associate a system of self-reporting with consensual adult discipline, which is perfectly legitimate discipline as I see it, just not something I’m looking for. In that light, it probably doesn’t make much sense that confessing to some wrongdoing in my youth that I got away with, and being punished for it now, is appealing to me. However, that’s a relationship dynamic distinct from FLR.

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    6. "It was also no surprise to anyone that a kid would most likely have to be caught to be in trouble." This is kind of my response to those who think self-reporting should be natural and easy. Like it or not, many of us have more than a little kid left in us.

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    7. Danielle here:

      Brett, you and I see eye to eye on eye on this. I see my authority over my husband in FLR as precisely analogous to a parent’s authority over a child. He isn’t a child, of course, he is perfectly competent as an autonomous adult, so he doesn’t really need me to be a parent to him. But it turns him on to be subject to maternal authority from me, and having that power over him has practical advantages for me. Well, not just practical advantages. Though D/s isn’t as sexual for me as it is for him, it has become sexualized for me too.

      You have also put your finger on the exact reason I don’t ask him to self-report: it would NOT feel truly empowering to me if I felt like I was just giving him spankings he was fishing for. That is not to say that Wayne never makes spontaneous confessions. But he knows better than to tell me whether or how I should punish him because that would make the confession seem insincere. I don’t even allow him to “suggest” punishments. I also find it satisfying to use the full range of disciplinary measures I used on my sons when they were growing up. Spanking wasn’t even the main thing, and once they were adolescents I didn’t spank them at all. (I can imagine how strongly being spanked as an adolescent must have affected you, Brett). For my sons, discipline would usually involve loss of privileges or allowance, grounding, extra chores, or making amends somehow. So I discipline my husband in all of those ways, either in place of or in addition to spanking. And when I do spank, I tend to be quick and to the point, like a mother spanking a child, rather than making it a long, drawn out ordeal, which I tend to associate with BDSM. That is not to say that my way is the right way. I can imagine that some men need disciplinary spankings to be long and harsh to have a disciplinary effect, especially if that is the only disciplinary tool they are willing to cede to their wives.

      Right now the situation in our house is a bit complicated when it comes to FLR. As previously mentioned, Wayne’s health problems have had a constraining effect. But we also have an adult son living with us now. (I hope it won’t be for too long!) At first I felt that I needed to be really subtle about exercising authority over my husband in the presence of our son. But lately I have started to think, “screw it, I’m going to live my life my way.” I haven’t actually spanked Wayne when our son is in the house—the loss of spontaneity is annoying—but I have made it pretty clear that I wear the pants and that Wayne IS subject to various forms of discipline. I even slipped up one time and threatened to paddle Wayne’s bottom, forgetting that our son was there. All three of us laughed, so our son may figure that was a joke, but I think he has put two and two together. But I find myself to be in the strange situation where I have two adult males in the house, and I tend to be bossy with both of them, but the father is subject to my maternal authority, whereas my actual son is an autonomous adult, in spite of his present dependence on Wayne and me. As a result, I have a whole disciplinary toolbox to manage my husband’s behavior, but when my son fails to pull his weight, I can only nag at him, which is not something I like to do. I thought my days of impotent nagging were over. Sorry, this is way off topic, but I felt like I needed to get it off my chest.

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    8. "Your comment does make me wonder whether the wives who express dissatisfaction with a husband not reporting are missing one pleasure of having power -- interrogating the other party until they fess up."

      Dan, this made me smile because I have never thought about that, but it true. I do get pleasure from the power to interrogate, especially considering that it is so obvious when Wayne has something to hide. I must confess that I enjoy making a bit of a cat and mouse game out of it. LOL
      Danielle

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    9. "But I find myself to be in the strange situation where I have two adult males in the house, and I tend to be bossy with both of them, but the father is subject to my maternal authority, whereas my actual son is an autonomous adult, in spite of his present dependence on Wayne and me." I can definitely see how that father-son role reversal would seem pretty surreal. We too have an adult child living with us, and it *won't* be for too long! I'm glad you took the "screw it" approach to showing your authority. I'm sure that was very liberating thing to do.

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    10. Danielle,
      I would think any male living under your roof would be subject to your maternal authority regardless of age-- especially one who was already under your maternal authority for years! Bring back the punishments you were using on your son during his teen years.
      Pete

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    11. "Bring back the punishments you were using on your son during his teen years."

      What, like ground him or confiscate the keys to his car? :-)
      Danielle

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    12. Danielle,
      Your comment really resonated with me.

      "I see my authority over my husband in FLR as precisely analogous to a parent’s authority over a child. He isn’t a child, of course, he is perfectly competent as an autonomous adult, so he doesn’t really need me to be a parent to him. But it turns him on to be subject to maternal authority from me, and having that power over him has practical advantages for me. Well, not just practical advantages. Though D/s isn’t as sexual for me as it is for him, it has become sexualized for me too."

      I think thins are pretty much like that for my wife and I as well.

      -ZM

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    13. Also, like Dan, I find the whole role reversal thing interesting:

      "But I find myself to be in the strange situation where I have two adult males in the house, and I tend to be bossy with both of them, but the father is subject to my maternal authority, whereas my actual son is an autonomous adult, in spite of his present dependence on Wayne and me."

      DD is full of strange dichotomies like this. Though I am the leader of the family in most ways, I am subject to my wife's discipline like a young child, but our teenage son really is never disciplined, even though he is far, far from autonomous. The worst he might get is a few harsh words here and there.

      -ZM

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    14. Danielle, the way you implement discipline is in line with how I want to imagine FLR. I believe your philosophy must be rare. The idea for me is a relationship that is convincingly out of the realm of BDSM or the appearance that punishments are in any way desired or sought after by the recipient. I must behave as my wife dictates, or I will be subject to her discipline however she shapes it. I want to imagine she is fair and takes my feelings, ambitions and desires into consideration but, ultimately, I am under her authority. The parent-child paradigm is the only real domestic relationship I know of that matches those conditions. Though it may be unrealistic, I don’t imagine FLR as something I ask for or negotiate. Before we commit to marriage, it is she who articulates the rules and conditions she wants, and then any commitment we make will be a matter of our compatibility.

      The obvious paradox is that I’m agreeing to conditions that fulfill my wishes. I never wanted to be punished by my parents, and spanking was the absolute worst thing that could happen, yet in the FLR that works for me, punishments that revolve around parental spanking would be fantasy fulfillment. In spite of that, it would still feel like and serve as real punishment, similar to dramatic and highly emotional experiences growing up. I think how you approach it strengthens the sense of authenticity because, as you say, discipline usually involves loss of privileges, grounding, extra chores, making amends, and how you acted as an actual parent. These methods don’t trigger anything much in me that is fetishistic, so as part of the regime they support the idea of real discipline. Spanking used within that regime—if, when and how you decide—is therefore imbued with a higher sense of parental punishment legitimacy.

      The situation with your son sounds frustrating. I imagine my younger self in his position, and it brings to mind a flood of thoughts and memories that have fascinated me for many years. What would it be like as an adult to live by necessity under the authority of an actual parent or guardian, rather than the authority granted to a spouse or SO?

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    15. Danielle here:

      ZM, I am interested in how you and your wife handle FLR with a teenaged son in the house. Are you secretive about it, or does he know your wife wears the pants? And how about discipline? Does he know you get spanked? My apologies if you have already answered that question elsewhere. As mentioned, I haven’t hidden my bossiness from our son, but we have not acknowledged that we have a formal FLR. I’m just debating whether I should hide anything at all. In other words, should I worry about the possibility that he might overhear his father being spanked? My initial impulse has been to try to keep that a secret. But if our son’s stay is going to be longer term than expected, I’m thinking that it’s annoying to have to pussy foot around disciplinary measures.

      Brett, you write:
      >>>Though it may be unrealistic, I don’t imagine FLR as something I ask for or negotiate. Before we commit to marriage, it is she who articulates the rules and conditions she wants, and then any commitment we make will be a matter of our compatibility.<<<

      Yes, unfortunately, I’m not sure how realistic such a thing is. To be honest, I would probably not have married my husband had he told me he wanted his wife to be a maternal disciplinarian to him. Back then, that would have freaked me out. We found our way into it after many years of marriage because trying FLR to save my marriage seemed preferable to giving up. I had no idea I would find it so satisfying before trying it.

      You also write:
      >>>The situation with your son sounds frustrating. I imagine my younger self in his position, and it brings to mind a flood of thoughts and memories that have fascinated me for many years. What would it be like as an adult to live by necessity under the authority of an actual parent or guardian, rather than the authority granted to a spouse or SO?<<<

      Yes, it is a frustrating situation. But I’m not sure that an adult son can ever be under parental authority the way a minor is. An adult son can’t be disciplined like a minor. Now, our son is subject to certain “rules”, as is necessary whenever any adults live together. He has to contribute to the grocery bill, pay a nominal rent, and pull his weight with the housework. But that’s the tricky part for me. Even though I have been doing some housework lately because of Wayne’s health issues, I don’t actually pull MY own weight. Our son hasn’t pointed that out, but he has to have thought it when I give him a tongue lashing for leaving too much of the domestic work “to us”, meaning to his father. Because there has been no formal acknowledgement of FLR, I must appear hypocritical to our son when I lecture him about doing his “fair share.” I’ve heard Wayne admonishing him not to do this or that (e.g. leave his clothes lying around, leave dishes in the sink) because “it will annoy your mother,” but I think Wayne feels sheepish about spelling out clearly the way things are, i.e. that because we have a FLR, a “fair” division of labor is not a 3 way division between the 3 of us, but a two way division between the two of them. I think Wayne prefers to let the situation be vague, but that means he often just picks up the slack for our son to placate me, and I don’t think that is fair. I can’t discipline an adult son the way I discipline my husband. That would be too weird. But I’m thinking maybe the fact of FLR needs to be acknowledged. That way I could say clearly that Wayne reports to me, our son reports to Wayne, and Wayne may be subject to discipline if the two of them together don’t live up to housekeeping expectations.

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    16. Brett: "I want to imagine she is fair and takes my feelings, ambitions and desires into consideration but, ultimately, I am under her authority. The parent-child paradigm is the only real domestic relationship I know of that matches those conditions. Though it may be unrealistic, I don’t imagine FLR as something I ask for or negotiate. . . . [D] iscipline usually involves loss of privileges, grounding, extra chores, making amends, and how you acted as an actual parent. These methods don’t trigger anything much in me that is fetishistic, so as part of the regime they support the idea of real discipline." I totally get all this. It isn't the DD/FLR relationship we have, but we talk about something along these lines. We tended in the past to dance around the whole "maternal" theme, but I've increasingly been open about wanting something along these lines. Now, whether I would like it if I had it -- I don't know. But, if it is "real," then it shouldn't really be something I like, just like those real parental spankings.

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    17. Danielle: I can only relate where I am currently on the the issue of how much our kids should know, and what they actually do. I've pretty much decided that, now that they are (young) adults, I am OK with them know everything, i.e. both about the disciplinary spankings and the blooming FLR. As for what they actually *do* know, as far as we know they don't know about the spanking part. At least my wife doesn't think they know, but I have my doubts. As for the FLR, they have noticed my wife's more assertive role in the last couple of years, and one of them has noted her bossiness and asked me (jokingly) why I put up with it. They have told my wife that she seems to "wear the pants" and she doesn't deny it. But, I don't think she has taken it any further than to tell them that I like her making more decisions because I have so much responsibility at work and, therefore, want to have less responsibility at home. Or, words to that effect.

      Honestly, I don't know how open we eventually will be. As I've said, I've decided that I'm OK with them knowing everything, though I don't have any desire to talk to them about it. It's really my wife who is reluctant to let them know more, and I'm not totally sure why. I think it would be empowering for her, and possibly a growth thing for them, if they saw an example of a woman being fully and openly in charge at home.

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    18. Danielle: “I would probably not have married my husband had he told me he wanted his wife to be a maternal disciplinarian to him. Back then, that would have freaked me out.”

      This is why there was almost no chance I would have ever found myself in an FLR. Aside from my desire that the FLR be her idea from the beginning, I have not had the courage to ask any woman I have known to be my parental disciplinarian. I think it is only natural that you would have been freaked out if Wayne had asked you early on in the relationship. It would be too embarrassing for me to ask someone and, after I was married, it has been no surprise that my wife has no real desire or understanding. Wayne is remarkably fortunate that you had it within you.

      Danielle: “I’m not sure that an adult son can ever be under parental authority the way a minor is. An adult son can’t be disciplined like a minor.”

      Not only is there no legal support for such parental authority over an adult, you’re right that it would be a strange and awkwardly unconventional relationship for all concerned. A parent could condition their support on some form of discipline agreement, an “under my roof, my rules” kind of argument, but that is not leverage a typical parent would want to use. I think of it because of its weirdness, and if it were possible, it meets all the terms of authentic parental discipline. Your idea to make your husband and son a housekeeping team, and where your son is indirectly motivated through Wayne’s discipline, sounds pretty ingenious—and all the more humbling and embarrassing for a husband.

      Dan: “We tended in the past to dance around the whole "maternal" theme, but I've increasingly been open about wanting something along these lines. Now, whether I would like it if I had it -- I don't know. But, if it is "real," then it shouldn't really be something I like, just like those real parental spankings.”

      It is odd to be attracted to something we don’t like, but that is the gist of it. Not liking it is what makes her authority real to me, and it boils down to feeling the shame and embarrassment I experienced as a youth under the control of a parent. That is something I genuinely want to avoid. I might be content to be under the authority and never get into trouble, but then if it happened, having gotten into trouble, the memory of the parental spanking would be satisfying and exciting. I’m fascinated just trying to make sense of it all.

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    19. Danielle here:

      Brett wrote:
      >>>Your idea to make your husband and son a housekeeping team, and where your son is indirectly motivated through Wayne’s discipline, sounds pretty ingenious—and all the more humbling and embarrassing for a husband<<<.

      Thanks for that feedback, Brett. I thought of it because my husband pushed the idea of having our son move back home in the first place. I went along with it because there were good reasons, mind you. There is a shortage of affordable housing for young people in our area, and our son is still paying off student debt, so Wayne thought coming back home for a while would enable him to get a leg up financially. Not that Wayne was enthusiastic about the loss of privacy either, but he has always been more of a softy than me. That’s why I was the real disciplinarian when the boys were growing up. And now that our son is here, I tend to get more annoyed when he doesn’t pull his weight than Wayne does. So as I see it, I have a whole disciplinary tool kit to manage Wayne’s behavior, but no real authority over our son other than the most extreme thing, which would be telling him to shape up or move out, which is too all-or-nothing to be practical. So I think our son needs to understand that his father and I have a formal FLR with clearly defined roles, and that he needs to fit into that structure as an assistant to his father in his domestic duties. To simplify my life, I will leave it to Wayne to work out the division of household labor with our son, but Wayne alone will be directly accountable to me. And I think the reality of the situation will have more of an impact on our son if he knows the disciplinary consequences for Wayne if the housekeeping isn’t done to my satisfaction. It will certainly be humbling and embarrassing for Wayne, but so what. That’s FLR.

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    20. Danielle, it appears you will have things well under control. If I was the son in such a situation, that would be really effective. I would not want to see my father in trouble, and contributing to the cause of it would feel awful. That might even be more effective motivation than if I could be spanked.

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  4. This is Liz and Art answering together.

    Is the Disciplined Husband in your relationship required to self-report offenses?
    Yes.

    If so:
    ◦How reliably does he do that?
    Liz believes he is now very reliable.

    ◦Is there any formal procedure for it or deadlines associated with it?
    Art must report prior to the next regularly scheduled punishment session, which is Monday and Thursday mornings.

    ◦What happens after he reports? Is there some obligation on the Disciplinary Wife’s part to punish it within a certain time, or at least communicate a decision about whether he will be punished?
    Yes. The punishment occurs at the next regularly scheduled session.

    ◦What are the consequences for not reporting or for not doing it promptly? An extra spanking? A harder spanking? Some non-spanking punishment?
    More swats at the next regularly scheduled spanking. Typically the punishment is approximately doubled, though Liz is not into having swats counted.

    •Do you keep a log or journal that tracks offenses and/or punishments? What form does it take?
    We have not kept any kind of log but it begins today for the next month.

    •Are there any apps or other electronic tools that you use to track or communicate about offenses and punishments? If not, can you think of anything a couple might use that would allow for:
    ◦Mutual logging of offenses
    ◦Notices to update the log or notices that a log has been updated
    ◦Security and privacy
    Art uses Google docs at work. If you use a Google doc spreadsheet, you can set up notifications so there is an email each time there is a new entry by someone other than yourself.
    The downside is it is Google, which is notorious for monitoring its users email. We are going to try it anyway.

    •Or, maybe you prefer a paper journal or log. If so, how do you keep it secure from prying eyes? Or, is that something you even care about?
    We are not planning to keep a paper log because we have teenage children. We very much care about them not knowing.

    •Finally, given that even the best system depends on human beings implementing it and sticking to it, what are your ideas on how to make the reporting and the punishment actually happen?
    When Liz is punishing Art for arrogance (or to prevent future arrogance), she reminds him that he asked for this and that it is designed to make him a better husband, father, and employee. Art knows that while self-reporting does result in additional pain, it is in his best interests. Also, the consequences for not reporting at all, and Liz finding out from some other source, would be severe (to date that has not happened).

    Liz writes: I am looking forward to seeing how the log works for the next month. It does mean we will be talking less about his job each evening. That could be a negative. But having a written record could be a positive in terms of showing him his arrogance in black and white. I have decided that he is going to write the exact comments that he makes to co-workers. I think the cumulative list could really demonstrate what he needs to change.
    Liz and Art

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  5. Hi Liz. I look forward to hearing how the Google Docs experiment works. I'm trying to do something similar with the collaborate feature on Pages for Mac. Once shared, each person's changes update in real time. But, I don't think it has a notification feature.

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  6. When a husband has to write a report about each of his misconduct, whether in paper journal or as electronic tools, it is important when he stands in front of his wife, he reads every violation, makes suggestions about his intended behavior changes, clearly states how sorry he is and what he deserves as punishment. If he is too lenient with himself, the punishment his wife considers necessary is doubled. Every single point is processed in this way. And a bulk discount is never given! strictpunishedhubby

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  7. Formal report methods always sound as great as they look.....on paper. In reality, for Rosa especially, such formality turns what is supposed to be a stress-alleviating policy into more work. Consequently we just approach each situation as makes sense. If there is a behavior that she would never know of that I am honor-bound to avoid....naturally the ONLY way she would know of it is through a confession.

    In most other instances, whatever bothers Rosa enough to warrant punishment is most noticeable to her and don't require confession. So i suppose the short answer for us is that we have no 'formal' policy, but rather just a fluid, 'logical' policy. And while it can result in inconsistency, rigorous formality would likely result in a disinclination to engage in DD as a 24/7 policy.

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    1. I get it, and you may be right as a practical matter. Though, I do feel like we need to build *some* more structure into ours, since the plain fact is a lot of bad behavior goes unaddressed and keeps happening. More consistency might not necessarily change that situation, but it would be worth trying.

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  8. When my wife was spanking me, she agreed to only if if I told her exactly when each rule was broken so she didn't have to make any judgment calls. I work with technology, and we are both on our phones a lot, so I used automatic logging to help with this.

    One of my major goals was to curb unproductive computer use, especially at work. I set up two productivity thresholds in RescueTime, which monitors the documents and sites you have open, and connected it to an automation tool, Zapier, so it automatically emailed her when the line had been crossed on one and at the end of the day if I didn't cross the line on the other. As I said in my original comment, our experiment didn't work out, but this part did work well. She only had one clarifying question about it. A couple of times she forwarded the email to me with both admonishment and encouragement which I really appreciated.

    Other than that, we set up rules like to be home on time and to bed on time. They were easy for her to verify but she wouldn't readily punish for them like she would for the computer offenses because she didn't have a tangible artifact to prompt her to take action. So I sent her a text or an email saying, "I got to bed late last night," and then she would do it.

    Were we to try this again I'd probably make a Google Form so I could log behavior for each day and have it automatically contact her with a brief summary using plain English. (And of course, set it up so no form submission was its own notification.)

    Thought I'd share since, while not long-lasting, our approach seemed different than others' here.

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    1. That seems like a great system, especially the idea of a "tangible artifact to prompt her to take action." I just wish I had your technical sophistication so I could set something that was a bit more automated.

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  9. First entry in our new log turned out interesting. On Sunday Art wrote about Friday, "Asked cafeteria lady if the soup was from last week."

    I read it Sunday but said nothing until he was over the desk for his Monday morning paddling. After giving him the usual "reminder" about arrogance I asked, "What's this about the cafeteria lady? Was she offended or did she laugh?" He said she did not react at all. So I asked him why he made the entry. "I think I shouldn't have made a sarcastic comment to her," he replied. That was good enough for me. He got a second dose of the paddle and then I kissed him and sent him off to work.

    Last night I asked him if he thought he would have told me that story if we didn't have the new log. He said he doubted he would have remembered it, that filling out the log made him really think about the previous day at work.
    Very interesting.
    Liz

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    1. That is very interesting, and that situation is the kind of thing that I would come down on myself for hard for. It's one thing to be arrogant or nasty with a peer or or a superior, but I consider it a major personal failure when I "punch down" and say something out of line to someone lower down in the org chart who may not feel they can punch back. Not that the former is excusable either. The latter is just way worse.

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    2. Though, to be fair, it sounds like this situation is more vague and less aggressive than what I think of us "punching down." So, I don't mean to overstate the seriousness of what may have just been an off-hand remark or a joke, depending on tone.

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    3. Yes, I don't really think he was punching down. It could have been a joke, but she didn't seem to take it that way. We have talked many times about his overuse of sarcasm, especially with our children but also at work. But I may have let it go without his comment that he shouldn't have said it. I actually was proud of him for noticing even the borderline stuff. But not so proud that I didn't give him a good walloping to reinforce his recognition! I'm sure he was much nicer to the cafeteria lady yesterday.
      Liz

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  10. "I consider it a major personal failure when I "punch down" and say something out of line to someone lower down in the org chart who may not feel they can punch back."

    You revealed, inadvertently I am sure, some really classy attitude when you wrote that. Hope you wife, who reads your blog, likes it too.

    I know you hate praise etc. Live with it!

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    1. I'll try not to let it go to my head. :-)

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    2. You raise an interesting point Tomy ....have you ever been spanked for something Anne read on this blog Dan ? In a way you 'report' any poor behaviour to us each week and your 'confession'is available for Anne to see.
      Perhaps Anne should post something on the blog to announce a spanking!

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    3. Glen, that's a good question, but the answer is I don't recall. I think there has been a time or two that I posted about bad behavior on the blog and she read it before I reported it in some other way. So, I think the answer is yes, but I can't recall a specific example.

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    4. I've been waiting to hear from Anne on the blog but I guess she prefers to fly under the radar , or perhaps she doesn't visit as often as we think ?
      I'm sure Anne is lurking out there somewhere so best watch out Dan!

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  11. DD and I have just recently (with the new year) began the practice of a running "journal" by keeping a weekly list of any "naughty" acts in a section of our shared day planner.

    It was her idea. We are both liking it very much.

    Most often I will write things on my own. Other times we will be out and she will see something that I do and tell me it needs to go "on the list" and it is my responsibility to write it in. When our weekly maintenance session rolls around, she takes a look at the list and spanks accordingly.

    I will agree with other comments, that it helps the man be more aware of the behaviors that both of them want to change(something that surprised and delighted me), thus improving the health of the overall relationship. It creates a kind of honesty that has benefited us both.

    Anthony

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    1. A shared day planner is an interesting concept. We also have a shared app called Wunderlist that might work as a networked, private listing of bad behavior. And, you can check things off the "to-do" list as they are done and can keep the list of completed tasks. That could work as a spanking log.

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  12. We don't do "self-reporting". When now husband and I first started dating, when he saw it was getting serious, he was up front about some of his habits. He just wanted to let me know about things that were deal breakers or caused friction in his past relationships.

    He also told me he doesn't volunteer information,but, if I ask him, he'll tell me the truth. I've tested this sometimes and he's always been honest, even if it means he gets a spanking.

    He told me early on about his pornography habit. I never liked it, but, back then, I thought I had to put up with things just to have a boyfriend. He was great in almost everything else, so I thought I had to put up with it. One thing he taught me is I don't have to suffer in silence.

    He doesn't delete his computer history,so, I can go there any time and see if he's looked at pornography. I can even ask him without looking at his computer and he'll tell me the truth. Usually, I get the hint that he's been slipping from his attitude. If his attitude isn't quite what I like, I can go to his computer and usually find something. I've even made a remark about how his attitude is slipping and ask him "have you been looking at pornography?" He's answered "yes" and I've sent him immediately to dress for discipline or chastity. Once I tell him to dress, I ask him "So you HAVE been disobedient?". As he's now under Discipline, of course he has to answer "Yes Ma'am" or "Yes Miss Cecilia". If I can't put him in chastity or discipline him right away, I will just tell him I'll deal with it, later and he has to acknowledge it with a "Yes Ma'am" or "Yes, Miss Cecilia", if it's possible.

    I also give him a chance to "confess" if I find some evidence of disobedience. One I found only one pornography site on his computer and he wasn't there for long. He wasn't even there long enough to masturbate (which I also don't allow without my supervision). When I pointed it out to him, I asked him if there was anything else I needed to know. He confessed he had a magazine and had masturbated to it. I told him I was just going to have him just put on some basic Disciplinary lingerie and give him 6 strokes of the cane, but, since he admitted to the magazine and masturbation, he was getting a Full Disciplinary Session. When I asked him if he thought he'd get that for confessing, he said he wasn't sure but wasn't surprised I made the punishment more severe.

    That's as close to self reporting as we come.

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    1. It's interesting that you can discern that his behavior is slipping based on the attitude he displays.

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  13. Yesterday's entry: A co-worker took three breaks in a 90-minute meeting to get coffee. We had to wait for him so he didn't miss anything. When he came back with the third cup I said, "Maybe you should try NoDoze." He did not answer.
    Liz

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  14. Hi Dan.....Like you I'm a big believer in keep it simple. Forms and logs etc actually look really cool and are almost titillating to guys like us but as you've expressed, have many real life shortcomings; how do you get it to her, what if you're traveling, does she have time to check it out etc etc. There's no need for any sophisticated technology, I like a very basic approach. Same as I do professionally for certain tasks with my subordinates. I'd suggest that you and Anne pick a date and time each week as a deadline that she must have an email from you in her "inbox". It makes it concrete and definitive. Even if she's busy and can't get around to checking her mail then, she'll still see when she does get around to it when it was or was not sent by you. I think that in itself may be a first step in consistency because as you alluded to in your comments....you are now responsible for following at least 1 concrete rule each week... that a email be sent by you when you were instructed to. So then there might be weeks that you're not held accountable for what you were intending to reporting but rather disciplined for that email not being there on time. She will also know if there was an infraction of the established rule whenever she gets to her emails. If she doesn't see that mail from you, she'll already be in her email and I'd suggest she shoot you a note w/ instructions as to when she is going to address it. YOU are accountable for getting it to her by the deadline...however SHE deals with it when she gets to it.

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    1. Hi Darren. We have tried email, and it just didn't seem to work very well as an enforcement tool. Maybe it's that the emotional impact of reporting or ordering a punishment by email gets drowned out by the 500+ other emails I get per day.

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  15. I've enjoyed this conversation, and want to add one thought. This is mostly a discussion of process and a search for process-based approaches to the challenge of sustaining the discipline structure in the manner we submissive guys both need and crave. What's missing is a parallel discussion of incentives. Even in a FLR where the wife fully embraces the power exchange, the arrival of a report of misbehavior is a demand on her time and attention. She has to be the adult, take responsibility, make a plan, etc. while her naughty boy has to do nothing but wait. If she fetishizes punishing him, then there is an endorphin reward for her, but if what she really fetishizes is the whole idea of the TPE relationship, then the activity of punishing, when it is "demanded" by the unexpected and unscheduled arrival of a behavior report, may be more of an "ugh" than anything else.

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    1. I would imagine whether a report is met with "ugh" or "I'm so looking forward to tanning his ass" depends a lot on all sorts of timing and context factors.

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  16. SubguyinAtl, you make a good point about self-reporting putting a "unexpected and unwelcome" demand on the wife. Maybe that's the reason I have rarely spanked my husband when he has spontaneously confessed something. And it's why I never allow him to "suggest" an appropriate punishment.
    Danielle

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  17. This is Arthur. Several here have commented that motivating behavior change in the husband is not what their DD is about. But that is the only thing ours is about, and I don't see how it could be successful if I did not self-report. Especially since we are dealing with issues at work, where my wife is not. Maybe that makes us unique here, but self-reporting is crucial to the success of our program to reduce my arrogance.

    In regards to the log, I have mixed feelings a week in. I enjoy telling my wife about my day, but now feel strange if I feel compelled to leave something out because it is a log entry. A big one happened yesterday but I haven't logged it yet. So I did not discuss work with her last night.

    On the other hand, I have made a couple entries of things I have said that I may not have mentioned in conversation because they didn't seem very arrogant until I thought about them. Is being a smart-ass a form of arrogance or just my kind of humor? I guess it's flirting around the edges of arrogance. Is that a slippery slope? Probably.

    I did get paddled more this week than in a long time (extra swats both Monday and Thursday) and I am not looking forward to this coming Monday. Maybe the log is showing me that I haven't made as much progress as I thought.
    Arthur

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  18. I am in a full-on FLR and my wife wants me to self-report. She does not consider it "asking for a spanking." She decides the consequences.

    Maybe one factor is whether the husband has a spanking fetish and wants to be spanked. I don't and my wife knows that. She knows administering pain works. So I am not getting a sex hit from the spanking. Though I do admit that I get one from her authoritarian approach.

    She has changed my behavior dramatically by beating my ass.
    Pete

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  19. The great varieties of opinion on self- reporting are both a revelation and a reminder how unique each DD relationship becomes.I have not been required to self report but understand why some wives do want it. I also agree with Dan and others that focused "interrogations" are a powerful way for women to uncover misbehavior and I do wonder if some disciplinarians might use it more. Both my disciplinarians have used it quite a bit to deal with specific behaviors they were focused on - and it works. I think much of it comes down to the goals of DD and the particular relationship one has. My wife is interested t controlling and correcting my behavior and attitude that impacts or threatens our relationship. She really is not usually interested in what happens outside that sphere ( although there have been a few exceptions over the years)She also does not want me to self report.She knows I have a spanking fetish and feels it very important that she decides thatthe paddle is needed(as well as when and where). There does seems to be a consistent difference between couples whose DD is focused primarily on relationship behavior and couples whose scope is much wider. As others have already said, there is no one "right" way and if it works for you then it is right for you.I think it's great that we can discuss and come to understand these differences.One final thought: I think it is the wife who determines which style of DD a couple practices -whether it is the issue of self reporting or the behavior goals of DD. This is the way it should be and as long as she is in charge there is no wrong way .
    Alan

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    1. "I think it is the wife who determines which style of DD a couple practices -whether it is the issue of self reporting or the behavior goals of DD. This is the way it should be and as long as she is in charge there is no wrong way."

      Perfectly stated. I couldn't agree more!
      -ZM

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  20. Hi Dan,
    As I said last week, we don’t really do self-reporting, with the exception of during the brief time that she was monitoring my daily work activities when we were trying to get a new product off the ground, so I don’t have too much to say on the whole reporting system subject.

    Being a technology guy, I immediately think of software approaches to the problem. Since no two DD or FLR relationships are identical, the reporting and tracking system probably could not be “one size fits all,” but at least there are a few traits I would think desirable.

    For us, if we were doing self-reporting and tracking, then I would want the following:
    - Immutability, so once you commented on something or admitted to something, it would be impossible to change or erase it. This would prevent me from having second thoughts.
    - Self-flushing, so kind of like Facebook stories or snapchat messages expire after a while and are no longer visible, I would want it to be that after a certain amount of time, if my wife had not chosen to take action (or maybe even read the comment/confession) the issue would just disappear.
    - Able to store “sentences,” so she could pass judgement and again, would have a certain amount of time to deliver the punishment.
    - Notifications when there is a new message (from either of us).
    - A tracking system combined with “interrogation,” so on issues that are being monitored, I would be required to report on whatever interval was chosen, with a certain amount of grace period. The system would prompt me to report, and would notify her if I failed to report, as well as keep score of how timely my reports are.
    - Behaviors would have categories, so when a behavior is reported, she could see how frequently that has been an issue as well as what punishments were used in the past.

    Anyway, I know of nothing like this, but that is a start for what I think would be useful. A less high tech way would be a simple locked “comment box” that only she had the key to, and each day you have to insert a card, so there had better be daily reports in in when she checks, and once it is inserted, it is out of your control and totally in hers.

    -ZM

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    Replies
    1. As a technology guy, maybe you could develop an app with these features as a side hustle!

      Delete
  21. Honesty is best in a good relationship, so yes, I do self report when I do something wrong. If it's work related, my bosses, (a husband and wife), are also friends, so my wife will sometimes receive a text from the lady boss when she thinks it's time I need to be disciplined. I will then cop it when I get home and the lady boss gets notified after the spanking by my wife that I wouldn't be sitting down much the next day.

    ReplyDelete

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