Saturday, December 14, 2019

The Club Meeting 323 - Whatever It Takes

To be accountable means that we are willing to be responsible to another person for our behavior and it implies a level of submission to another's opinions and viewpoints." ― Wayde Goodall

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

Mine was kind of roller-coaster of ups and downs.  On the upside, this week was the culmination of a bunch of frantic work travel that centered on events I “had to” attend and things for which I had some actual, significant role to perform. I still have to travel this upcoming week, but it’s a short trip for something relatively unimportant.  So, I do feel a sense of relief that a multi-week series of obligatory work trips finally came to a close.  We needed it to.  Anne had the same sense I did, that we had been separate too often lately.  We both had the sense of needing to be in the same place for even a couple of days, free of social and business commitments.  The feeling was not entirely consistent with our reality, as in point of fact we had seen each other just four days before, yet somehow this latest trip just felt so much longer.  I suspect it was just the aggregate of too many separate trips.  But, we both definitely felt it.  I’m hoping that now that the work and other obligations have paused, maybe I can get some of that Christmas spirit that K.D. and I have said we are missing.  I wonder whether it's possible to spank Christmas spirit into someone?


We had a good discussion last week, though I’m not sure anyone answered Alan’s actual question about whether there is a relationship between the extent to which a husband is naturally submissive and the extent to which corporal punishment is used in the relationship. As for the issue of natural dominance and natural submission and how much we individually reflect one tendency or the other, I’m in kind of an odd place right now.  For the last several weeks, I’ve been in a very dominant place at work.  There has been one incident after another in which I have gone off on someone or displayed a lack of respect for authority.  Yet, sitting here this weekend I feel a very compelling need to be firmly taken in hand.  Maybe it’s not paradoxical but, rather, inevitable.  I’ve spent several weeks way out on a dominant limb, and now I need someone to rein me back in.

We’ve talked before about using DD to solve problems at work, and it’s an area in which there seems to be little consensus in the group.  I really do which there was a way for my wife to have a more direct view into happenings at work and was more inclined to treat my work-related behavior very seriously.  Last week, Liz put it this way:

But arrogance is not leadership or at least not good leadership. He deserves to be punished for it and has asked to be punished for it. And because spanking was so prevalent in my family, I took to it quite naturally. I don't even consciously think of him as submissive or me as leading when I am punishing him, though clearly we both are. I just think I am smacking the arrogance out of him and now he can lead the way he is supposed to, whether at work or home.

Extremely well put, Liz.  Unfortunately, the primary reason it falls to Anne to discipline me at home for problems caused at work is because no one there can or will.  It’s kind of like the old days, where if you got a spanking at school, you got a worse one from mom or dad that night.   

The problem is for me the spanking, metaphorical or literal, happens only at home and not at work.  When I get in this very unbalanced state, I almost wish someone at work was strong willed enough to actually slap me down.  I would hate it at the time, but it would be good for me. My subconscious appears to agree.  Several months ago I recounted a dream I had in which I was attending some kind of work event that also, in the non-logical manner of dreams included both my wife and my father.  In the dream, I was to be taken out and spanked by our office manager.  I was very resistant and tried to plead my case to both my wife and my dad, but neither had any sympathy.  I think it's telling about my work dynamic that even in my dreams it was really two members of my family who made the discipline happen even if they didn't swing the paddle themselves, because at work there is no one who has a strong enough personality and enough authority over me to make me really, really want to make sure I don’t misbehave again.  That is a problem.  Merry put it this way last week:

Leader type people will constantly push limits and tend to be stubborn and self-willed, often to their own destruction (Lying, smoking, drinking, using foul language, aggression, and so on) The key to dealing with those behaviors is finding a type of discipline that is harsh enough to be a deterrent.

That is my way of drifting into a topic for this week.  Harshness.  Tough love.  The determination to bring about real change by any means necessary.  Escalation is another good word for it.   


I really believe that one key to effective discipline is for the recipient to know that in a power struggle he absolutely will not win. It was sort of like that for me growing up. I didn’t get in many outright power struggles with my dad, because I knew that if I ever tried he could and would show me who was boss. He was just one of those guys who will not ever lose.  Thankfully for my ass, he was not into making a lot of rules, because had he been I’m sure my ass would have been bruised well and often.  And, there is not a doubt in my mind that he would have escalated to whatever level he needed to in order to get his message across.  That’s just who he was.  Conversely, my wife has a sibling who is a complete fuck-up, and I think one reason is he learned growing up that my mother- and father-in-law would let him win if he resisted their authority.  In the end, they were never quite willing to find that type of discipline that was harsh enough to be a real deterrent.


Have you experienced that in your Domestic Discipline relationship?  Has there been a time when your wife’s message wasn’t getting through, so she increased the stakes in some way that finally got your attention?  Maybe the spankings became longer, more frequent, or more severe?  Or, maybe she added some punishment that did not involve spanking?  Perhaps some form of humbling or humiliation or public embarrassment?   


Whatever it was, did it work?  Conversely, perhaps there is some behavior that you want her to help you fix but current efforts have not been successful.  Is there something she could do that you fear enough that it might actually result in a real change if she did it or threatened it?   
For the wives, have there been times when you were frustrated with his behavior and clearly weren’t getting through to him using whatever discipline you were using at that time?  What did you do about that?  If he’s asked you to help change his behavior, or if there is something he’s done that really pisses you off, are you willing to do whatever it takes to root that out? 

I hope you all have a great week.

32 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Tossing this out there before a weekend away:
    Sometimes, I use the "Reward good behavior instantly" method. I also warn that bad behavior will be noted and dealt with later.

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    1. I think I am one of those people who, unfortunately for my ass, respond better to aversive measures than to rewards

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  3. Usually when my wife spanks me the message will get through because she will continue to spank me until she feels the message got across. One thing I really fear is the spanking I will get if I call her a bad name. That will get me a trip to the basement and I will be tied over a spanking horse or my hands tied to the ceiling and my feet tied between two posts and she will use the razor strap to whip me.

    Sometimes some other punishment I get after a spanking which is very humiliating is she will make me go outside in a two piece bikini and work in the yard knowing neighbors may see me. Another time she spanked me just before she was to go to her yoga class and because that spanking would make her late she made me go with her and she made me wear a leotard and tights.

    I really try hard to behave because I never know what might happen after the spanking.

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    1. Hmm. Calling names? Am I going to need to check your ID to make sure you meet the age requirements for participation on this blog? Or, maybe you're just our President.

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    2. You know that sometimes the slip of the tongue I might use the B word or the F word which is strictly forbidden.

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    3. One would assume, though I'm not sure that the former would usually require expressly forbidding it to use to your wife. Maybe some of the other wives might like to comment on that one.

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  4. As the old saying goes, "It takes two to Tango." It's like with a successful improv team, both parties play "yes..and". Each has to be fully committed to their role and fully inhabit it and be it.

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    1. I don't know about the "yes . . . and" When she's spanking me I tend to be saying, "No, no, no!" :-)

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  5. I knew that my wife was planning to discuss DD with her mother in order to find out about her parents use of it. She told me that our DD might come up as well, and I was of the opinion that she should share as little as possible. However, that went out the window when i made a rude comment to her mother about her politics. My wife shared more than I expected or desired. Was it an additional punishment? Not exactly. But it wasn't a coincidence either and it did embarrass me.
    Arthur

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  6. Arthur,
    You are a outrageous tease. What did she share? And what did she learn about "her parents use (of DD)"? The devil is in the details.
    Alan

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    1. I was not teasing, gentlemen! Liz already explained what she shared and what she learned. Basically, she shared that she paddles me, and she learned that her mom and dad spanked each other several times a year for being unladylike or ungentlemanly. Her mom was spanked with the hand, her dad with a belt.
      Based on her mom's preference, Liz has asked me to get a leather strap to add to our paddle. Any recommendations?
      Arthur

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    2. London Tanners. https://www.thelondontanners.com/shop/dd-strap/#

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    3. $143??? That hurts and I haven't even felt it!
      Arthur

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    4. I agree, but I do think this is one of those areas where you get what you pay for. But, you could also try www.cane-iac.com

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    5. We have purchased from cane-iac.com also, and were satisfied with the service and product. They appear to be a reputable company. --al

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  7. Escalation is a tricky topic for us. The only time it was ever used was in circumstances where there was some sort of repeated behavior BUT still not behavior that was too upsetting. It was also used when a point was being made. And that's our thing. If Rosa is really upset over something that is repeated and emotional, she will not escalate but retreat. She feels certain things are just too upsetting to use DD for. And I am glad of that because when the situation IS too "real" the last thing I want is to be made to feel worse about it.

    We had a very long discussion this weekend over precisely this sort of thing and a lot came out from both of us. And while I had definite issues she could admit to, she also revealed some things that have been bothering her deeply that I am admittedly guilty of......but are so profoundly rooted in my general personalty that it is difficult to say "oh gee, sorry. That will never happen again". Instead I was more depressed, defeated, and deflated by things I can't see ever going away and instead just admitted to and said that I would try to be more attuned to. The problem is the major one is something I can't see when it's happening. It's not like a willful act of disobedience as a trait that can get out of hand. It's a kind of hyperactive behavior that once is underway blinds me to the fact that I'm even doing it.

    Neither of us see this as something we want to use DD to solve. It's just too........real. So to say, 'let's just ramp up the penalty for it' would be upsetting to her and disastrous to my emotional state.

    How simple things would be if this was just a situation where I was a slacker who kept forgetting to take out the garbage and Rosa was looking to correct that.

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    1. I totally get that. I wouldn't doubt that most of have blind spots. and if you can't see that what you are doing isn't OK before or during it, then there is no way to stop. It's kind of like I said a week or two ago about temper. It's all well and good tell me to control mine, but when it hits my mind goes to all the rationalizations for why in this particular instance the other guy deserved it.

      A few months ago, one of the our female commenters said something in response to a question about whether DD should be used for little things like "taking out the garbage." Her premise was that almost everything she would use DD for were "little things," because the bigger ones were things for which DD probably wouldn't be a solution or not an appropriate one. I'm kind of in the middle on that. I think if someone is in the throes of major depression, he needs a psychologist, not a spanking. Same with a lot of substance abuse problems. But, if someone has a proclivity for saying thing that constantly hurt his wife's feelings, that's not a small thing yet I think DD could possibly help him stop doing it and help her feel like justice was served.

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  8. I agree Dan my wife uses spankings on both the little things and the big things. The big things sometimes involve more than just a spanking like calling my wife a bad name will get a spanking and a mouth soaping and there could be other punishment with that.

    My wife fully believed that if she spanks for the little things that may help prevent me doing from the bigger things.

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  9. The typical disciplinary spanking that my wife applies for a weekly maintenance spanking, preventative spanking preceding a specific event, general attitude adjustment, or a relatively minor infraction typically starts at 100 swats as a base. For a typical disciplinary spanking, she will usually stop there, unless she needs to add some extra - for whatever reason she feels like. She doesn't feel that less is effective, and she also believes that duration is a critical aspect of the spanking - and that I should want it to stop well before it does, just in case I had the idea that I might "want" a spanking. She spanks hard enough that the first 100 whacks will invariably leave me with a well reddened behind that will be sore to sit on for a couple of days, and at least a few tears.

    She will sometimes address (through lecturing and scolding) various current issues during maintenance or attitude adjustment spankings - in case there is anything that I need to work on. However, if I should fail to address these issues satisfactorily - or if I commit an offense that merits serious punishment, then she will apply a punishment spanking, along with other disciplinary measures appropriate to the problem. It is foregone conclusion that I will be reduced to sobs by the time that she is finished with me.

    A punishment spanking will be longer and harder, and often with her applying one of the larger, heavier paddles with me bent over a chair (instead of otk). The paddling is then often followed by more from the strap or switch.

    Depending on the offense, she might follow the spanking with other domestic or femdom disciplines. Foul language has sometimes resulted in a mouth soaping, sandwiched in between a spanking before and after (she has found that an initial sound paddling makes me more cooperative in accepting whatever other disciplines that she feels are appropriate). If I start to have a problem with the alpha-macho me trying to reassert itself, a punishment spanking might be followed with femdom disciplines such as being given a large otk enema, being soundly pegged with a large strap-on dildo, or being given a large butt plug to wear for a couple of hours - all with the purpose of teaching me humility. (Chastity devices do not appeal to either one of us, although I understand their importance to some).

    I typically avoid writing here about the femdom disciplinary measures as the focus of the Forum is domestic discipline (although, I will add our use of femdom techniques grew out of basic domestic spanking discipline) - but since the topic is "doing whatever it takes", I thought I would mention them in the spirit of looking at the various ways our wives "do whatever it takes". --al

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  10. al,
    Others might disagree but I don't view the "femdom" practices you cite( pegging,enema's,dildos et al) as in any way outside the boundaries of DD. Couples may choose or not to employ them but they seem solid options for any wife interested in using them. My wife doesn't make frequent use of most of them except pegging which she does not consider discipline. But my former girlfriend was very interested in punitive enema's and mouth-soaping,so I understand what you are describing
    Alan

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    1. Agreed. I know I can be kind of schizophrenic on the extent of Femdom and BDSM stuff I want on the blog, but it's just an inherent exercise in line drawing. For me, I guess the dividing line revolves around the purpose of the practice. All of al's examples seem to involve doing things that could be aspects of BDSM but using them as disciplinary tools. To me, that does fit in with the overarching DD theme of this blog. It's a harder fit when someone is taking about Femdom-type stuff but there really doesn't seem to be any connection to DD. That's really not what the blog is about, and I do want to keep it's overall focus on disciplinary relationships, acknowledging that there are lots of points along the spectrum.

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  11. Alan, I think they can be within the realm of DD as well - they are for us on occasion. But since this blog primarily deals more with the DWC-Maternal style of corporal discipline, I differentiate them into "femdom" discipline. When I was involved as Aunt Kay's assistant in moderating one of her private Yahoo groups many years ago, she was adamant that the conversation be focused on "maternal style spanking" and would not permit discussions of other "femdom" activities - so I do see the Disciplinary Wife concept as being primarily focused on spanking when it comes to discipline - but do fully recognize that each couple might also choose to include other disciplines that might normally be labeled as "femdom" (and my own wife is certainly one of those who chooses to employ those methods on occasion as well).

    I know that many couples engage in pegging these days - and it obviously has different implications for different couples. In terms of femdom, pegging discipline is obviously not really about pain so much (after all, many women and men are happily butt-f***ed with the real thing and with dildos all the time) as it is about being metaphorically turning the tables on him - and making him the "archetypal submissive". Interesting topic. --al

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    1. It's funny, but after all these years of reading DWC content, engaging with Tomy, etc., I did't really know she characterized the DWC spankings as "maternal style"

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    2. One of those things it's easy to read and not remember verbatim - from the home page of the DWC site:

      The Disciplinary Wives Club (DWC) is an organization whose purpose is to encourage the application of "Good Old Fashioned" spanking and other very traditional methods of discipline by wives and committed partners. It is our experience that the vast majority of relationships that have a maternal discipline orientation are truly happy, healthy and long lasting.

      We are based in a simple philosophy of love being the driver of everything in a good relationship.

      On the purpose page she wrote:
      This is not a sexually explicit site and we do not advocate or advertise activities of a sexual or sadomasochistic nature. You will however, find among our recommended Links, sites and people who do include S&M, B&D etc. Many of these people are good friends of ours and we support their play styles completely. It is simply our preference, for this site, to remain focused on the spanking part of relationships.

      (With thanks to Aunt Kay for leaving the site up in "archive mode" before she passed, and to Tomy for its ongoing online presence. Still so much wonderful material there).

      Obviously this does not mean the use of "femdom techniques" in addition to old-fashioned spanking disqualifies a disciplinary wife from thinking of herself as a DWC wife (or her husband seeing her as such). Only that it was Aunt Kay's intention to have the DWC site focus only on maternal style spanking discipline. --al

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  12. al
    Thanks. Aunt Kay's views are always respected. I wonder if she would still feel the same today since the F/M DD community has grown and evolved. Public views of adult spanking has changed and evolved considerably over the past two decades
    Alan

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  13. Alan - Maybe Tomy could best answer that, but I do know that she had some very definite beliefs. :) But, even in the old DWC group, I knew from back channel emails that some of the DWC couples also employed "femdom" techniques, they just didn't talk about them in the group (since it was Aunt Kay's group). Ultimately, it is obviously up to each couple to decide what works for them - after all, there is no Bureau of Standards for DWC DD, and getting bogged down in semantics is seldom helpful -although Dan may have some guidelines for the discussion on his blog. --al

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  14. All I can say is Aunt Kay was a very open-minded person and I feel OK about paraphrasing her philosophy as basically being that as long as there was no abuse, bullying, or exploitation, and not kids were involved or aware of it, what adults choose for their own satisfaction is fine.

    I am deeply grateful for those of you who have embraced her memory. It means a lot.

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    1. Thanks, Tomy - I know that we all appreciate your reflections and memories of your time with Aunt Kay. --al

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  15. I could have written Obama's statement almost word for word.

    https://www.salon.com/2019/12/16/president-obama-a-world-ruled-by-women-would-improve-just-about-everything/

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