Sunday, December 8, 2019

The Club - Meeting 322 - Naturals


It is much safer to obey than to rule. -- Thomas Kempis

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week. 

Mine was horrendously busy.  I keep thinking I see light at the end of the tunnel, but it now seems to be an oncoming train.  I really do need to sit down over the Christmas break and think about how to put the brakes on in 2019.  The pattern of dysfunctional behavior being tied inextricably to work is just crystal clear.  When I was on vacation a couple of weeks ago, my binge drinking stopped completely, nagging physical health problems cleared up, and my energy levels rebounded.  One full week back at work, and I reverted right back to form.  I sense a continuation of my annual “resolutions” topic coming!

Alan suggested a topic for us.  It’s one we’ve covered in some respect before, but it’s been a couple of years.  He also put a bit of a new spin on it.  His suggestion was as follows:

“Over the past year I have noted a real split between men who identify as Alphas and incorporate DD within that framework -and men who identify as submissive and approach DD and FLR's more or less as a "Beta" males.These very different dynamics ( alpha vs beta male) seem to lead to different female led relationships with the latter using less corporal punishment. It might be interesting to get into this because it seems a basic dichotomy in our community.”

It's rare that I completely copy the content of a previous topic, but I am blatantly plagiarizing my own former work this week, because I’m traveling today but wanted to get a topic posted.  So, some of our long-term readers will probably recognize much of the below.

Blogger used to have great polling feature, which they unfortunately killed a couple of years ago.  Before they did, I ran a poll that asked whether our male readers identified as “naturally submissive.  The results at that time were:


Naturally submissive:                      63 (68%)
Not naturally submissive:                29 (31%)

A year before I had done a rather poorly constructed poll that tried to test both the gender of our participants and their inclinations toward “leader” behavior or status in and outside the home.  The question and the results were:

I am [Male or Female] and Outside the Home I prefer to:

Female - Prefer to Follow                 2 (2%)
Female - Prefer to Lead                    5 (5%)
Male - Prefer to Follow                   48 (55%)
Male - Prefer to Lead                      36 (41%)
           
These polls kind of surprised me at the time, largely because I was projecting my own inclination and history onto our other participants.  While many of the poll respondents seem to have been inclined to follow their “natural” inclinations around dominance and submission both in and outside the DD context, I had come into this from the exact opposite angle.  My entire motivation for being in a Domestic Discipline relationship and wanting to explore a Female Led one is that I am not at all submissive in real life and strongly prefer to lead and really hate being led.  It leaves me very unbalanced a lot of the time, so my inclination has been try to balance things out by subjecting myself to being made to submit to another person’s will.  
           
Intellectually at least, my attraction to DD lies in the fact that it requires me, a fairly unyielding and dominant person, to yield and submit.  I am attracted to it because it requires me to grow in a direction that is not natural to me and that makes me very uncomfortable.  For me, DD is about bringing some order to a disordered state that; bringing balance to a personality that is inherently unbalanced, with way too much yang and too little yin for its own good.

Yet, the polling seemed to indicate that most of this blog's readers are coming at things from the opposite perspective, attracted to something that fits where they naturally want to go anyway.  It also shows why I sometimes get into discussions where we are just talking past each other about the nature of submission and why husbands who don't always toe the line should be cut some slack.  Not in terms of not getting the punishment they have coming, but in terms of understanding why they may not instantly and consistently obey every rule.  Every few weeks I will get a comment from someone to the effect of, "you just need to submit."  And, without exception those comments always irritate the hell out of me, because it's clear that the person just doesn't get that for a non-submissive person, submitting to someone else is a very hard thing to do.  It is not natural to them, and they must fight their natural tendency to fight and resist.  Conversely, if your natural temperament is geared toward submission, then isn't it awfully easy to advise "just submit"?  It's what you want to do anyway!

The same is true from the opposite side of the paddle.  Leading is hard, and particularly so for those whose “natural” tendencies are more passive or prone to followership.  Even for people who have strong leadership attributes, it takes thought and commitment and learning to be comfortable not just with a degree of confrontation but with actually initiating the confrontation.  And all that may cut against who that person has always been.  But, even if following is more natural to such a person, is it healthy? What do you miss out on by not leading, even if leading is hard?  Leading did not come easily to my wife.  Both by temperament and socialization, when confronted with an obstinate, unyielding husband, her first reaction was to flounce and pout.  But, she is figuring out over time that she actually does like leading, does like being in charge and, yes, does like spanking and punishing. 

How about you?  Are your natural inclinations with respect to being dominant or exercising leadership, or preferring follow or be submissive, reflected in your place in the DD or FLR hierarchy?  Do you consider yourself a “naturally” dominant person or, conversely, are your more inclined toward being the leader in your work and other non-DD and non-FLR relationships?  Do you do what comes naturally, or do you act contrary to form?  And, regarding Alan’s specific question, does the recipient’s bent toward dominance or submission have any effect on corporal punishment?  If the recipient is more submissive to begin with, is corporal punishment employed less often, or perhaps spankings are less severe? 

41 comments:

  1. Hi Dan and fellow readers, Once again - Happy Holidays to All! First, while I'm sure that I have said this before - just a hats off to Dan for his diligence in posting these (mostly) weekly blogs, and really well written and constructed posts at that. As one who has done some similar things for other causes, I know that the time and effort - worked in between career and family - is not insignificant. Kudos on behalf of the DWC community.

    As I am certain that I have also written before, I really relate to Dan's story, as I am also definitely on the alpha side in career - and, all too often, in other respects as well. My wife and I are, in fact, both quite alpha, reasonably intelligent, and reasonably successful in our respective careers. In the past, this resulted in a certain amount of tension - as might be expected, since we both were just naturally prone to assume the leadership role in our relationship.

    Adopting the DWC lifestyle ceded the disciplinary role to her - at her discretion, but did not concede "total control" to her, or even an FLR style marriage. It did, however, allow us to more calmly talk about our roles in the marriage. This was more difficult in the years prior to DD because I would be prone to "go off" during these conversations in response to what I perceived to be "nagging" or an unreasonable position and then a major fight would ensue. Now if I go off, I get soundly paddled, and we try to talk again (as I sit, sniffling, on a very red and sore behind). Realizing this, most of the time I am now able to have the conversation without going off. As a result, we have since had productive conversations about how to manage our marriage, and for us, it is essentially a modern partnership-style marriage, where we each take care of the things that we are best at, and divide up mundane chores.

    I suspect that I probably do receive significantly more corporal discipline because of my alpha personality than I would if I were more beta (and oddly, something that I aspire to at the spiritual level, but with mixed results - slow learner, I suppose - but the CP does help keep me focused, at least). My weekly maintenance spanking is, in fact, in place to aid in me remaining humble and less arrogant (in light of alpha tendencies). Good topic. --al

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    1. Hi Al. Thanks for the kind words. Your point about tension arising when there are two leader-types in a relationship is something that really resonates with me. We worship egalitarianism, but in my experience truly equal relationships don't work very well, at least not between strong personalities. I also totally get what you mean about aspiring to be more "beta" at the spiritual level, and stepping away from the alpha, type-A, controlling, dominating part of me is a big part of the reason I do meditation and have explored a lot of Eastern religion and philosophy. But, like you, I'm a slow learner. In fact, a friend of mine at work about fell out of her chair when I told her I was into mediation, saying in dismay, "This is what you're like AFTER meditation???" :-)

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    2. "truly equal relationships don't work very well, at least not between strong personalities." This is true but strongly complementary relationships between two strong personalities who respect each others strengths and weaknesses do work well.For me that is close to the modern sense of "equal relationships" - and that can include as it does for al and for me and apparently for Dan, ceding disciplinary authority to your wife.
      Alan

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    3. Well put, Alan - nice summary that essentially captures where Susan and I are at also (I think that I nicknamed my wife "Susan" in earlier posts, after "Susan" in "Even More").

      Dan, my studies also include Eastern Thought - in combination with Esoteric Christianity, focusing on the Christian message of love and forgiveness in relation to the Eastern focus on Oneness and inner knowledge. My practice also includes meditation - and I too have received comments about how perhaps I should give it more effort. (I believe that we have touched on this subject before, along with other members of similar outlook). --al

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    4. So, should we call you "David" instead of al? :-)

      It is interesting the extent to which a lot of Christian teaching starts merging with a lot of buddhist thought, the more you really delve into both. I'm not sure I buy the theories that the historical Christ was exposed to Buddhism during the years before his ministry which are basically a total blank, but it's not inconceivable. There certainly is a lot of parallelism with some of the teachings, particularly as described in some of the gnostic gospels like the Gospel of Thomas.

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    5. So Al, are your weekly maintenance spankings something you requested? Or was this your wife's idea. I think I might welcome weekly maintenance spankings in principle, if not in practice.

      Doug

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    6. Doug, I've posted my story before, but in brief, after confessing my spanking fantasy one Friday evening to my wife (we had too much wine, and started swapping fantasy desires that we had never shared before, despite several years of marriage), she enthusiastically obliged me with a ping pong paddle - and discovered that she like the sense of power, saying that maybe we should make this a regular part of our marriage. So, I showed her the DWC site and a couple of other similar sites - which she spent a few hours absorbed in that Saturday morning. This immediately led to a DWC marriage - and as we began to discuss the "terms of the contract", she mentioned that had seen "weekly maintenance spankings" referenced - and thought that might be a good idea, at least in the beginning - to help get our new lifestyle started. I agreed - as I was enthusiastic about my long time fantasy becoming a reality. So, the weekly Sunday evening maintenance spanking began the next day - and never stopped, sometimes much to my regret.

      There has been some discussion about this topic here and on other forums over the years, and it does not suit every couple - but it is helpful for many DWC couples. We believe that it maintains the principle of maternal disciplinary authority in the household more consistently, and helps keep me humble and less arrogant. --al

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  2. I like this topic! More this time because the changes in my Household has made things clearer than before. Less muddled by outside situations.

    Shilo really wanted to be submissive, especially when it came to discipline, and he convinced himself it was true, and that was who he was. However, within 5 months of us being together (and 2 months of marriage and living together) it was apparent to me that there wasn't a submissive bone in his body, save for the fact that he enjoyed the idea of being disciplined by a "strong woman."

    When it came to work and dealing with people, Shilo was a leader. He wasn't a "boss" but since he worked overnights alone, he had to make lots of snap decisions without the input of a supervisor. Before long, he was telling me what to do! It didn't go over well for obvious reasons, and so I taught him how to back down and obey by using creative discipline. It worked until his decline in health a few years ago.

    In dealing with others, I'm what I call a "reluctant leader" meaning I don't want to be in charge, but if nobody else will step up, I'll do it. When it comes to the men in my life, I lead, almost with an iron fist, and I'm a stickler for rules. Disobedience isn't tolerated. I take joy in disciplining others for their disobedience, but I also feel that repeated disobedience of the same type is a failure on MY part. Ideally, I want the person I'm disciplining to be discouraged from repeating the same offense. that works well with a more submissive person, but not so much with the leader type.

    Leader type people will constantly push limits and tend to be stubborn and self-willed, often to their own destruction (Lying, smoking, drinking, using foul language, aggression, and so on) The key to dealing with those behaviors is finding a type of discipline that is harsh enough to be a deterrent.

    The severity of the punishment depends on the crime committed. Is it a first time one, or is it a repeat, and how many times? In Shilo's case, he got to the point that punishment/discipline was no longer necessary for misbehavior. You could say that he learned his lesson.

    Since his diagnosis in January, and retirement in February, he's become a homebody, only going out for medical or other appointments, and it's really difficult to break rules with the both of us being together all day and all night. The few times he's needed an "attitude adjustment" my behavior towards him, whether I say something or just walk away, brings him back to where I want him.

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  3. Hi Merry. Wow does your fifth paragraph hit home!

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    1. >Hi Merry. Wow does your fifth paragraph hit home!

      Indeed! Very well said.

      --al

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  4. The hardest part in trying to answer this is trying to figure out what I am to begin with. I am very situational. I can state without hesitation that in those work-related 'workshops' I have nearly always been the elected leader of my group......and I have no problem with the role. It comes easily. But I also have little trouble letting some other "hotshot" have the spotlight if it seems paramount to him. (I just don't need the leader seat as part of my identity.) I guess you could say I've been a "Semi-reluctant leader" but one who will take the role and execute it faithfully if appropriate.

    And that has been my method in many arenas. So what is that? I also have no trouble evaluating a situation for the required expertise and offer mine if appropriate or let someone more qualified take the lead when appropriate. I am never intentionally intimidating and yet have been told by a LOT of people over the years that I am nonetheless. (I have no idea how.) I am simultaneously competitive and non-competitive again depending on the situation. At work hated when bosses would try to pit me against a peer and did everything possible to suggest that I would rather work WITH that peer for an even better result than trying to "beat them" since I felt our competition was the "enemy" not our fellow workers.

    How does all this translate to DD? Again, I can't figure out what I am there either. I can be ridiculously submissive or annoyingly belligerent with equal fluidity. But I will say that even when I submit I do so as a concession or gift, or recognition of some quality in the person I'm submitting to rather than as some admission of a servile nature.....though at times I can feel that way too.....but only in a playful sexy way, never seriously.

    So, you can see it would not be easy to answer because it's all situational by instance rather than situational by where I am. And lately it's all sort of moot because my submissive feelings have become more grounded in "play" (which is not the point of DD) than wanting someone to genuinely be critical of my behavior.

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    1. A lot of this resonates with me. I have the same experience with many people telling me I am intimidating, even though I don't see myself that way. I am not a large guy, but I have a pretty booming voice and I think it creates the illusion that I care about some point I'm making more than I actually do. And, I am really not all that competitive, though it's nuanced. When I do think I'm right about an important point, I can fight like hell to win on it, but it's competing against other positions, not against other people. And, like you, I often get asked to step into leadership positions though I don't feel any particular need to take them on and, in fact, I often prefer not to be out front. But, I also really like trying to fix messed up situations and organizations, which often requires stepping into some formal leadership role.

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  5. Personally, I see myself as inhabiting the entire range of the Greek alphabet from Alpha to Omega. I lead the armies and I clean the toilets. I am brave but frightened. I admire and am admired. I love women and I love men. I worship the children as in owing them the ultimate allegiance to protect their future.

    DD, at the end of the day, was not an end in itself. It was a light in the darkness that revealed a woman’s generosity. It was merely a pointer toward deeper trust and openness and honesty.

    As big as the DWC was for us, it was a tiny fraction of who and what we were to one another. So I humbly beg the question of being dominant or submissive in favor of the Gods having opened my eyes, mind, and heart to the true oneness of true love.

    And I celebrate and unreservedly encourage others who find value in learning more about their dominant/submissive nature. Soldier on!

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  6. Perfect! I could have never put it into those words.

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  7. Well said, indeed, Tomy!

    --al

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  8. Tomy has become the Shakespeare of DWC.
    Alan

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    1. Two Bee or Knot Too Bea...Iz that a question?

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  9. I am an alpha male, a leader at home and work. So how is it that I regularly bend over and take a paddling from my wife? Because the overbearing parts of my alpha personality almost destroyed my marriage and family, and were hurting me at work as well. Even the best leaders need reining in on occasion.
    My wife and I decide together what I will be punished for, so my leadership does put some restrictions on the degree of her authority. My dominance does not allow her to unilaterally decide on punishment, so that may reduce the punishment that might otherwise occur. On the other hand, I certainly think that if I were more submissive that I would be less arrogant and thus be punished less. To me it is more the arrangement between the husband and wife that determines the amount of punishment, rather that the dominance or submission of the punished husband.
    Arthur

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  10. Hello, and Happy Holidays to all. I was not around the last time this topic was visited, so it is new to me. My transition came quickly. Let me explain. Always was an alpha male, both at work and home through my single years and first marriage. When the marriage ended and I 'discovered' dominant women and their roles, I began to convert to a submissive. Marriage to my second wife, a NYC pro domme, and natural dominant, forced me into an immediate change from alpha to beta. Naturally, it took its toll as I was still working a high stress, leadership job and had to switch roles when I was not working. It was difficult and many spankings resulted. After retirement things were much different and after the end of the second marriage, I was nearly a total beta male. My current relationship, although not married, finds me a submissive all the time. Some of my family knows I live in an FLR as do some of my/our friends. All her family knows, some have seen her punish me and a few have actually spanked me themselves. She does give me the lead in some things, like driving or household repairs, but generally now I am her submissive and receive spankings for punishment as well as maintenance. How do I feel about it..... I love it. I do not miss the high stress or decisions. It took a while, but I have converted from alpha to beta completely.

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  11. Spanked Cowboy's contribution above raise a fundamental question Vis-à-vis alpha males seeking discipline versus beta males seeking discipline. Is it only a continuum that distinguishes one from the other with the disciplinary wife's preferences accounting for the difference. Many comments are made from time to time to the effect the male wishes for more strictness, more discipline, and more control.Maybe these comments are coming from the alpha males who want it rather than the beta males who feel they have it.Just to be clear, maybe: the whole alpha -beta dichotomy is a construct and the female determines which side one leans toward.It's something to think about
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. I do agree that it's all a spectrum, but I don't agree that the man's place on that construct is determined by the female. I think that her level of dominance and the extent to which she adopts a dominant role and how pervasive the adoption is impacts how is proclivities are expressed and/or addressed, but I don't think she determines which way he leans. Though, I also don't doubt there are some like SC who may be "converted," i.e. have one's place on the spectrum moved in one direction or another. Though, it may also be that such a former "alpha" was not naturally inclined that way in the first place but had some leadership skills and found himself in a leader role that he never liked. I think some people are probably naturally Alpha, some have it imposed upon them, and some are somewhere in the middle.

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    2. I myself am still at the pondering stage as far as what determines where on the spectrum one ends up ( or starts out)But I would like to hear from SC about his thoughts on it.Can he imagine being in a different place today if he had been married to or involved with less dominant women?
      Alan

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  12. In response to the above post, I do believe I would be in a different place today had my first marriage failed. The time period between first and second marriage began my conversion to beta. After learning about and trying another item on the menu, I began to seek out more dominant females. Finally, after retirement, I knew where on the spectrum I 'wanted' to end up. So I am a converted alpha, caused by fate, but pushed along by my desire after learning about a different lifestyle. Use any descriptor you like, I stand as a beta, kept, owned, dominated, submissive, converted, spanked, adult male and not ashamed of it.

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    1. This is all very provocative. I tend to agree with Dan's premise that we are mostly one way or the other (alpha or beta) although we may migrate some during the exploration phase of DD and F/M relationships. That also seems consistent with Spanked Cowboy's experience ( although he notes it could have turned our differently). Having said all this however I know my alpha traits are reinforced by the reality that my wife as well as most women I have been attracted to like alpha males.When I was much younger I was attracted to one very dominant and gorgeous woman.But she was not romantically interested in me ( maybe because I was alpha ??)But I have to wonder the road I would have traveled with her. I may have to just continue to wonder about that.
      Alan

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    2. Hi Alan. It is an interesting question whether even very dominant women are still attracted mostly to men with dominant personalities or do many of them prefer someone more submissive. Most of the women I know who have very dominant personalities seem to be attracted to dominant men, though I can point to a few who married men who were much less dominant than them. Though, I can think of at least two instances in which I know those women were having affairs with more dominant men.

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    3. Hi Dan and Alan,
      I have no idea what women prefer, since they are just far too complex for anyone to really understand! :-)

      One thing I would say is that in much of life, I am not so submissive (as I wrote below). In day to day life, I don't think I prefer more dominant women, and at times I just see them as being impossibly bitchy. On the other hand, when it comes to relationships, I tend to be more submissive, so consequently, I am only romantically attracted to very strong, independent women, the bitchier the better. I would generally not be attracted at all to a meek, submissive woman.

      However, I agree with Alan's point that to a certain degree, we are influenced by the traits of the other party as well. All relationships work that way. I have two children (and two step-children) and I am sure that I interact differently with each of them. I am still the same me, but because of their different personality traits, different facets of my personality are reflected in each relationship.

      I don't think that it would be easy for me to be dominant and to have a submissive wife, especially since as I said, I am not attracted to submissive women. However, if I happened to have fallen in love with a submissive woman, who knows how that might have worked out?

      -ZM

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    4. "On the other hand, when it comes to relationships, I tend to be more submissive, so consequently, I am only romantically attracted to very strong, independent women, the bitchier the better. I would generally not be attracted at all to a meek, submissive woman." Totally agree. I can't imagine ever being attracted to a submissive woman.

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  13. I agree with what Alan said about the value of "complementary relationships between two strong personalities who respect each others strengths and weaknesses." Before I asked my wife to take up the paddle, I do not think I truly respected her strengths. Now I do! Including her strength swinging the paddle!

    I would describe her as a traditional wife but not a submissive one. She wants to and does stay home to raise the children. But she is in charge of our home, has and expresses strong opinions, and has no trouble ordering me over the desk. She is neither submissive nor beta, but she still sees me as the head of the household, the alpha.

    She has always respected and appreciated my strengths. Now I have learned to respect and appreciate hers, and a sore bottom has helped teach me.
    Arthur

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    1. Learning to respect and appreciate each other's strengths is a very worthy goal for all of us.

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    2. Art has learned the hard way just how strong I am!

      Seriously, though, I am not naturally dominant nor a natural leader. I like having my husband lead. But arrogance is not leadership or at least not good leadership. He deserves to be punished for it and has asked to be punished for it. And because spanking was so prevalent in my family, I took to it quite naturally.

      I don't even consciously think of him as submissive or me as leading when I am punishing him, though clearly we both are. I just think I am smacking the arrogance out of him and now he can lead the way he is supposed to, whether at work or home. It's "quit being a jerk and get back to being the best head of the family you can be."
      Liz

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    3. Hi Liz. "Smacking the arrogance out of him." I totally get it, and it's what I really need, especially these days.

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    4. >Hi Liz. "Smacking the arrogance out of him." I totally get it, and it's what I really need, especially these days.

      I had the same thought when I read Liz's comment - very well put!

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  14. I was always the alpha lady at work. I am good at it and do like my work. I always thought I couldn't do that off the job, because it was never easy for me to get a boyfriend or once I did get one, to keep him. I thought I had to be mousy to keep him. When I managed to get the guy that became husband, I thought I was real lucky and thought I'd have to not only bend over backwards, but put my head through my legs to keep him (funny how now HE'S the one who bends over).

    He's an all around great guy and always was, in spite of some of his habits I didn't like but thought I had to put up with. He let me know and showed me how to stand up for myself in a relationship. His basic guideline was be honest. He's always been honest and I should , too. Let him know what I'm thinking.

    I think that in the relationship is less me being the alpha girl or the dominant and more me standing up for myself. Of course, once I've announced to him he's under discipline or I snap the lock shut on his chastity cage, I'm in charge, but it's more as a consequence of him doing something I don't approve of. Between chastity, spanking and humiliation, I've gotten his bad behaviors to a minimum. I'm more standing up for myself than ruling the roost. The house is his, he has his job and he controls most of the finances, but I've had a voice since I moved in with him. While we might go through forms, such as when he has to spend some money and he's in chastity or under discipline, he will say "Miss Cecilia, may I please have permission to call the roofer to repair the roof?", I can ask him some questions, but, I do have to understand he's researched all this and give him "permission". If he's not in chastity or under discipline, he just calls the roofer, but lets me know he's going to do it.

    Husband, by nature doesn't fit into any classification, although he takes on beta forms when he's under discipline or in chastity. If I do want him beta, I can dress him and he becomes submissive. I do want him totally submissive/beta when it's time for a Disciplinary Session.

    He has alpha characteristics, too. He let me know in the beginning there were certain things not open to discussion: his old car, baseball games, drinking with his friends and toilet seat up or down. When I introduced discipline in our relationship, he let me know the limits. Early on, I did cross some of them, and he became totally alpha (he's cut several locks off his chastity cage and flung the thing at my feet--this also got him refusing to agree to anything for a while). Still, he did go back to accepting my discipline, eventually, since he understands that's how I stand up for myself and he understands I enjoy it.

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    1. Cutting locks off the chastity cage -- too funny!

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    2. If I ever cut a lock off a chastity cage I won't be sitting for a month.

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    3. I must say Cecilia's point about honesty was the bedrock of what made my relationship with Aunt Kay work so well. From the very beginning we were both committed to that as a core value and even when it was challenging we stayed with it.

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  15. I always wanted my wife to be in charge but was afraid to ask her. When I finally brought up punishment, she agreed to fine me but not spank me. That seemed like proof that she would never be into DD or FLR. But she began enjoying the monetary benefits and especially the power, and she quickly did start using corporal punishment in addition to the fines ... and especially taking charge of our sex life. Her dominance has clearly emerged, as has my submissiveness. Sometimes it is more than I bargained for (I am now on an allowance, do most of the housework, and may never receive oral sex again), but it is way better than the conflict-filled marriage we had before. I am much better behaved, can be my true beta self, and do truly enjoy her maternal power.
    To answer one of the topic questions, I am not being punished any less even though I am more submissive. That is because she keeps instituting new rules that ate enforced with fines and spankings. Sometimes i lose my entire allowance and am unable to buy any beer for the week.
    Anton

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  16. I can really relate to KD on this one. For me everything is quite situational. And in most ways, I am a walking contradiction.

    In business, I am generally not very assertive and absolutely hate confrontation. At the same time, I have aggressive goals and I work hard to achieve them, and expect the same from those around me. I have been CEO of a company and shouldered a lot of responsibility. I have started several technology companies in a less-developed and at times dangerous country in eastern Europe, which was an incredibly bold step, since it involved moving my family from the USA and leaving the comfort and security of great jobs and making a terrifying leap into the unknown.

    Socially, I am really kind-hearted, but at the same time I can be overbearing and kind of a bully. Not that I would ever want to make anyone feel bad, but I tend to pick on people far too much in fun, and sometimes cross the line.

    My activities and interests are more what one would expect from a tough, masculine guy, like fast cars, motocross, skiing, etc. But I also like reading and cooking and things like that.

    In our home, I am a good, faithful, and loving husband. I am somehow a mix of a rough and tumble guy, defender of the family, and big softy. I am generally head of household, and my wife defers to me much of the time. But in fact, we are very much equal partners, so any big decision would be made jointly and with both of us having equal input. We pretty well compartmentalize DD, and our relationship is in other ways pretty normal (in fact, amazing)!

    When it comes to relationships with females, I am more submissive. I was never really all that sure of myself when approaching women, though I have been married to two beautiful, smart, and very desirable women, and in between my marriages, I dated some very young and generally pretty hot women (certainly out of my league!). While I can be pretty aggressive and take-charge in bed when it comes to regular activities, all of my wild fantasies, every one of them, without exception, is with me being submissive.

    So I guess I am really a strange mixture of manly man to the world, and more submissive to my wife. I would say that my role in our DD relationship fits me pretty much perfectly,

    My wife is a very strong, confident person, though everyone knows how very nice she is, so others see the strong side of her. In DD, or when we are just playing, she assumes a bitchy role that isn’t really like her normal demeanor at all. Having said that, it seems to come very easy to her to come across that way and she can be very convincing, even though it is not part of her normal persona. I think for her, the only struggle is that sometimes she still finds it hard to be a bitch because she doesn’t really quite understand how I can like that or how much I need the whole DD thing. I guess we have that in common…

    -ZM

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    1. "In DD, or when we are just playing, she assumes a bitchy role that isn’t really like her normal demeanor at all. Having said that, it seems to come very easy to her to come across that way and she can be very convincing, even though it is not part of her normal persona." It's really interesting to me that she can switch the "bitchiness" on and off like that. I wonder whether most women can? I don't think mine really can. I think she struggles to be as strict with me as I'd prefer her to be, because "bitchy" is not who she really is.

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