Hello all. I hope you're having a great weekend. I was planning to post this week but, when I sat down to try to write something yesterday, I couldn't think of a single topic I was both interested in and that we hadn't done to death recently.
Anne and I did have some interesting discussions this week about where we want to take the DD and FLR aspects of our relationship, but the discussions were mainly about things like severity, certainty and consensual non-consent, all of which have been major topics pretty recently.
If any of you have topic ideas, let me know. I won't promise to use all of them (sometimes a topic just doesn't appeal to me enough to write about), but I clearly could use some brainstorming help.
Have a great week.
By the way, I saw this meme recently. It has absolutely nothing to do with DD or FLR, but it made me laugh my ass off.
Future topics ideas: is there a "best practice" way of moving a DD relationship on when one side offers resistance? Is aftercare neglected in the round where spanking is involved? How can we disconnect the BDSM cliché from DD and how can F/M avoid being more stigmatised than M/F? And final suggestion: how can we promote more the therapeutic and stress relieving elements of DD/spanking? As someone used to say on TV over here 40 years ago, thems your starter for 10. Cheers GLM.
ReplyDeleteTherapeutic spanking has gotten on talk shows a couple of times. The problem was it was framed as something done by unusual sex-positive therapists and not couples. We need New York Times glossy lifestyle articles about artists and bankers doing their best work because of their watchful girlfriends.
DeleteI like the stigmatisation question. I feel that the needless stigmatisation of F/M DD stops couples from enjoying the benefits of it who otherwise would.
DeleteJ
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteHowever, post-orgasm spanking could be a completely separate topic. That if and how and how much it is used in relation to DD and what feelings or challenges does it cause? It wasn't an issue for our DD at first, but at some point when I introduced it to my wife as one of the possible means of making punishment real and very painful, she started to like it. Today the situation is such that most of my punishments are post orgasm. At some point I was already worried that it always has to be like this, but over time I somehow got used to it. She tells me that You yourself wanted it to be real, and I see that only in this way is it real for You, and You can reach tears. She is kind of right, but sometimes I think that I would like to do it differently, just like in the old days, Or has the train gone? How are others? How much do your wife use post-orgasm spanking and how do they explain and justify it?
The strangest thing is that I myself have started to dreame about it, but when we get there and I get an orgasm, I immediately don't want this punishment anymore, but have to accept.
I agree completely. In the lead up to a punishment the spankee may feel some excitement and even to some extent want the spanking. An orgasm completely removes those feelings and ensures that there is not the tiniest part of you that wants to be spanked, so the punishment becomes much more real. I’m not convinced It’s physically any more painful, it’s the psychological effect that counts and makes it a real punishment. TG
ReplyDeleteTG wrote:” I’m not convinced It’s physically any more painful; it’s the psychological effect that counts and makes it a real punishment.”
DeleteThis is a key notion not much discussed about post-orgasm spanking. Men who have been spanked that way (including me) seem to emphasize the pain and discomfort of being spanked soon after an orgasm. And rightly so, as anyone experiencing it already knows.
From my wife’s perspective, however, it makes spankings shorter, less severe, and less frequent. But she is also aware that it eliminates eroticism and reduces the emotional fulfillment that spanking before (or instead of) orgasm brings.
So, from her perspective, there are pluses and minus in using it. However overall, she would use post-orgasm spanking more, but we have had an agreement that limits it, and going beyond that has been, so far, a hard limit for me.
Women do see post-orgasm spanking differently from men. To us, it is severe -we will do anything to avoid punishment. But the other side of that is that spanking after an orgasm allows her to administer a shorter, less severe spanking to get the same or better results.
Alan
Can you share the agreement that limits it?
DeleteThis might not deserve a whole topic, but: upgrading the spanking-compatible furniture is surprisingly tricky! First, it has to look innocent and work with the room. Second, it has to fit a large man draped over it nicely. How exactly do you test this? Third, what do husband and wife each want from the positions and moods encouraged by the furniture?
ReplyDelete(One easy decision was that our new mattress had to have excellent edge support.)
I vote for funature or spanking bench with restraints that can be hidden in plain site.
ReplyDeleteOne of the key elements of DD ( and my personal fascination with corporal punishment) is the voluntary, albeit often very reluctant, submission in assuming the exposed position and maintaining that position through quite often severe pain. There seems to me no other situation where one would do that. That reluctant and deliberate submission is the core of my DD ‘thing’ . A delicious fascination like a moth to the flame. Restraints would interfere with that aspect for me…. TB
DeleteThat is very well expressed! Submission to her commands goes to the heart of it. Restraint of any kind would erase much of the significance in that. Maybe that is one of the differences between DD and SM/BD. In DD, rituals replace role-play, and submission to authority is expected but not physically coerced.
DeleteAlan
TB,
DeleteI can sympathize with your comments above. For me, when my wife orders me over the bed, it brings me back to my youth. My last spanking for stealing. I had trouble holding position as the paddle reigned down on my bare bottom. I ended up getting paddled lying face down on the floor. I embarrassed my Mother, so she was going to embarrass me. The exposed position and the reluctance to bend over at that moment hits triggers for me. I know we have touched on it but another in depth topic could be how our youth affects our DD or FLR today.
T
TB, I understand your position... voluntary restraint is a key factor in DD. For me, restraints mean that I can relax into the punishment - it is more bearable (maybe less effective?). It is a long time since I was restrained but give me the choice and I will take restrained every time.
DeleteI have a profound aversion to the thought of being restrained (tied up) It has never even entered our discussions. I'm sure it works for some though - just a personal thing for me. Perhaps some trauma from early childhood that I cannot remember or even a past life experience - no clue why - but it is most definitely not in our disciplinary regimen. --al
DeleteI would be interested to know how many couples DD goes beyond spanking and uses other avenues. I know our DD grew out of a BDSM situation so there are other things used as discipline in our relationship that others may not use. I would be curious to know about the different flavors of DD others have.
ReplyDelete"Thrashing Furniture" is certainly an interesting idea, in use and as a topic.
ReplyDeleteIs there any way for commenters to "upload images," or do those all have to go through Dan's email account." (It's kind of hard to have a serious discussion on this topic with only "verbal descriptions" or "web links" to commercial products.)
There's no way I know of to add an image to comments.
DeleteWe do have a “ spanking chair “ that fits nicely in the living and no one is able to tell what its primary use is. We call the guest bedroom the “ spanking room “. This is used for bigger issues and of course we have the storage shed better known as the “ woodshed “. This is used for the biggest offenses. ( used a few weeks ago ). Does anyone have a pattern to when a spanking is to be given ? Dev will say “ bring me the paddle “ but sometimes she wears a certain dress that she got for this purpose. It’s nice and can be worn out to dinner etc but every time it’s worn I am spanked. JR
ReplyDeleteI like that dress idea. There are certain dresses I'm happy to see when a spanking is already happening. She looks great holding a paddle and beckoning me over in them.
DeleteTotally agree
DeleteThere are rituals involved in our spanking, which helps normalize it. When she decides I will be spanked, she asks me to set things up, which means closing the curtains, getting extra pillows, moving chairs to the living room, and getting out the paddles. It would be interesting hearing about other rituals. I personally have no interest in post orgasm spankings, but it seems like some of you do. GLM was wondering how to promote the stress reducing elements of spanking, and nothing reduces stress for me like a good paddling. But getting that out to the general public is something that seems near impossible. Another topic that we could explore is how to get things back on track after taking a break from spanking. We are dealing with that now, and in some ways, it feels like we are starting over.
ReplyDeleteGrounding as a method of punishment. It's a topic that doesn't get nearly enough discussion as opposed to spanking and really needs to.
ReplyDeleteAnother topic we have only touched on briefly is maintenance discipline. We are finishing a nine day shake down cruise in our new RV. For a number of reasons this had the potential to be quite stressful for me. During this entire trip, every morning Domino has made me take a short but intense maintenance spanking while reminding me to be aware of my attitude through the coming day, it has worked wonders for keeping my stress level low and helping us both enjoy our trip. Wondering if others have used or experienced this technique to head off trouble? I am ready to be home and have the maintenance sessions end though.
ReplyDeleteThere are some interesting ideas here. Combining a spanking furniture topic with a spanking ritual topic might contain enough discussion points for a good week of discussion - they seem to go together. It's too bad we can't add pics for the furniture - but as Dan said, it's just not an available feature. The best we can do is provide a link to a pic on the web - and describe it as best we can. My wife has a pilates ladder barrel in the house that I have been bent over for a spanking on numerous occasions - she has me bend over the barrel section and grab the ladder - and not let go as she spanks me - quite effective.
ReplyDeleteI know we have discussed maintenance spankings (such as weekly) and preventative maintenance spankings (such as before a trip or an event) from time to time - and I think Dan may have dedicated a week to it once - but it may be due for another discussion.
The discussion of DD as related to BDSM is certainly an idea. Did any of us come to DD from BDSM? Or did instituting DD lead to an exploration of other areas of BDSM, Femdom in particular (pegging, butt plugs, enemas, chastity devices, feminization, cuckolding)? However - Dan may not want to go there - it does venture outside the focus of his blog and perhaps risks casting DD unfavorably. Back in the day, when the DWC was a real club with a private Yahoo group, Aunt Kay absolutely did not allow any discussion of sex or BDSM in the group - and if we had all been local instead of virtual, she probably would have spanked anyone who brought it up.
Just a few thoughts to sum up some of what has been discussed. It's all up to our host, Dan, of course. --al
Thanks, al. I don't have a big problem with any of these, including the BDSM topic. My view is there is a lot of overlap between the two, so I would have been curious to see where Aunt Kay drew the line, particularly since she also seemed to promote spanking parties, which I see as at least BDSM adjacent.
DeleteI'm also fine doing preventative and/or maintenance, though I admit my interest in the latter is so low that I always have a hard time writing up a topic on it.
On furniture, I can try to work up something, though I think our conversation in January of this year about rooms used for spanking branched out to cover some of that same ground.
>so I would have been curious to see where Aunt Kay drew the line, particularly since she also seemed to promote spanking parties, which I see as at least BDSM adjacent.<
DeleteWith Aunt Kay, any discussion about spanking (even spanking others) or other domestic disciplines (grounding, writing sentences, mouth washed out with soap, etc) was all fine to discuss - just nothing that ventured into the "sexual" or the more "pure bdsm/femdom" (like I enumerated above). It might be interesting to see how Jerry remembers it as well. --al
In regard to maintenance spanking, that might be a subject that could also be combined with "ritual" that was mentioned above. --al
DeleteI've always admitted that when it comes to dates and the passage of time, whatever the opposite of a savant might be, that's me. I thought we had done "rituals" fairly recently and, thus, my initial reaction was it was too soon. Just looked it up, and it appears the last time we did it was 2019 - five years ago.
DeletePossible new topic -The sources and experience of intimacy in DD
ReplyDeleteIncreased intimacy as a result of female-led DD has been touched on several times by comments. But I don’t believe we have ever tried to define or identify its source(s).
My former GF told me many years ago (after a spanking, I think) that “spanking is more intimate than sex.” Of note, this came from a woman who was not a spanko, although a strong believer in disciplinary spanking. My wife has similar thoughts but not so far as favorably comparing spanking to sex.
As a topic I envision, we might ask how many do experience intimacy from spanking, whether it is something both men and women experience, and where it comes from. What about disciplinary spanking produces feelings of intimacy ( if it does)?
There are many other directions a discussion could go. This blog and others have talked about the advantages of introducing spanking into a relationship. And there are many advantages, including facilitating a healthy power shift, powerful erotic expressions, behavior modification for naughty males, and more. However, intimacy is one of them for at least some couples. It might be interesting to try to answer how and why that is so
Alan
"intimacy and spanking" - that does sound like it might have the potential to be an interesting topic as well. --al
DeleteThat could be a good discussion. My wife and I had a recent conversation about this in which she said spanking doesn't feel intimate for her like it does for me. This was said to make clear that she is happy to do it despite that, just like with many other things that make me happy, but it prompted some reflection on whether that could be different some day.
DeleteSpanking for me anyway is probably the most intimate thing that we do. I haven't asked my wife (although I will if it becomes a topic) but I feel very close to her after a spanking. I get the impression that she feels the same. I suspect that it is due to me making myself vulnerable... not something that I normally do.
DeleteI enjoy that same feeling of intimacy and attribute much of this to the understanding that spankings are just between us. I can't think of anything else in our marriage that is so personal. My willingness to share these feelings overcame any doubts my wife had about introducing it to our relationship.
DeleteKevin
On her DWC site , Aunt Kay put a strong emphasis on the 'ambiance of a spanking , the atmosphere, surroundings, etc.
ReplyDeleteAs Aunt Kay states , ' A spanking should be an event to remember , so a suggestion for future discussions may be to share what type of ambiance is present to make it a spanking to remember. Is it the room , the Spencer's demeanour , the formality , etc?
Interesting thought - I can see ambiance being tied in with the ritual and furniture topics already mentioned. --al
DeleteAunt Kay’s “A spanking should be an event to remember” always seemed to really mean that it should be intense enough to really get your attention. My memory is only good enough to remember the spankings I had last month. I received hundreds of maintenance spankings and dozens of disciplinary spankings in the last few years, and only a handful stand out as truly memorable. Like many of you, the intimacy we share from spanking is simply wonderful. It may be the most important aspect for her to be motivated to keep doing it. It keeps me vulnerable and helps me appreciate her. I have written lots about how well maintenance spankings have worked for us. The main thing about them for us is it keeps spanking happening, regardless of how well Iam behaving. I have come to accept that getting a good paddling at least once a week helps reduce my anxiety and PTSD.
DeleteHi Dan, as someone who teeters on the edge of this lifestyle i find it difficult to convince my wife that there is anything in it for her if she was to fully commit to an FLR. I’ve heard comments about this being empowering for women, or others saying it promotes a harmonious relationship, reduces stress etc. I’d be interested to know how true this is for the women that are involved are there benefits for the disciplinary wife that make it worthwhile? I’d love to hear the opinions of men and women on this topic about the benefits of being a disciplinary wife.
ReplyDeleteHi Adek. We address pretty regularly the benefits for both parties, but let me think about how to work this into a new-ish topic, like maybe the relative benefits for the wife as between domestic discipline versus something with more FLR elements. BTW, I don't think a wife does have to fully commit to an FLR. Commenters here are all over the spectrum in terms of how much their DD relationship includes FLR elements. I'm also constantly surprised at how often someone says they are not in an FLR, then when they describe how much control she exercises, it sure sounds like an FLR to me. It goes to show that there isn't a common, accepted, vocabulary for this stuff.
DeleteYou make a good point and I should probably be more specific. It seems that there are many couples whose dynamic is stop start. The enthusiasm wanes and DD fizzles out. To me that’s a sign that the benefit does not justify the cost. So either we overstate the benefit or are understating the cost. For instance, I think we often overlook the stigma of identifying as a “disciplinary wife”. This is something that I imagine takes immense confidence and I wonder if the empowerment we attribute to disciplinary wives is something that preceded them accepting that mantle. So a better question might be what would it take for a hesitant wife to fully embrace this lifestyle and what are the obstacles.
DeleteYou make a good point and I should probably be more specific. It seems that there are many couples whose dynamic is stop start. The enthusiasm wanes and DD fizzles out. To me that’s a sign that the benefit does not justify the cost. So either we overstate the benefit or are understating the cost. For instance, I think we often overlook the stigma of identifying as a “disciplinary wife”. This is something that I imagine takes immense confidence and I wonder if the empowerment we attribute to disciplinary wives is something that preceded them accepting that mantle. So a better question might be what would it take for a hesitant wife to fully embrace this lifestyle and what are the obstacles.
DeleteSince there is no given topic may I throw in a personal question in the mix? maybe somebody has some thoughts on it. since my wife has a hard time wrapping her mind around the concept of DD and wanted to discuss it with somebody neutral we consulted a kink friendly therapist to help us find a level of DD that she is comfortable with. the therapist advised her not to use spanking as a punishment because it is obviously something i crave or want. it would therefore be a reward instead of a punishment. he therefore suggested a system in which spanking is indeed a reward for my behavior and i lose my spanking privilege if i misbehave. that's not really what makes me tick. Spanking as a reward is not really desirable to me. My wife noticed my quite obvious erection right before a spanking numerous times and concludes that a spanking is what I whatand what turns me on. And she is not wrong in some respect. The thought of receiving a spanking is a huge turn on but that does not mean the spanking itself is a reward. How can I explain that I want a spanking but not for the sake of the spanking itself but what it represents? That it is the ultimate expression of a power dynamic that I crave? Mike
ReplyDeleteMike, I hadn't thought of this before until your comment, but it seems to me there is a huge difference between a therapist that is "kink friendly," on the one hand, and one that is basically acting as a kind of "kink coach" on the other. I'd really question what credentials he has to enable to give advice on the "how to" aspect of any kink, let alone something like DD that is partially a kink but also has all sorts of other motivations at play. Based on the advice he gave you, I'd really question whether he knows a thing about this particular dynamic or, rather, is just making it up as he goes along.
DeleteThere clearly are some men who are genuine masochists. They *like* pain, so using DD as a deterrent probably *is* just reinforcing bad behavior. There also probably are some men with spanking fetishes that are so purely about spanking that the DD is more or less fake to begin with. For some, I don't doubt that spanking might be a reward that merely reinforces bad behavior.
But, there are plenty of men--maybe most of those here--who have personally experienced the paradox of getting an erotic charge out of the whole disciplinary context while still very much wanting to avoid "real" spankings. It sounds like your therapist is just making the blanket assumption that you like getting spanked and, hence, any spanking must be a reward. Maybe ask for a 1:1 session with him to explain the dynamic and, if he still doesn't get it, my advice would be look for another therapist. Especially since it sounds like what he's doing really isn't "therapy" in any conventional sense but, rather, some (uninformed and shoot from the hip) form of coaching.
Mike, would your wife be open to reading your post and Dan's response. Situation as you have described in the post seems clear and easy to comprehend... and as Dan says very common amongst us.
DeleteI do struggle with your wife's position (provided that you have been as clear with her as you outline in your post). If she is prepared to punish you at all, I can't see the harm in your erection prior - just that she needs to take on the challenge of making damn sure that you don't have one after (conversion from a horny man with an erection into a sorry punished boy). Then she needs to see behaviour modification and contrition - these three outcomes demonstrate that the coach is wrong.
My thought is that if she achieves these outcomes then surely it's worth her playing the game!
I'm like you, I do very much like that I'm spanked, the thought is arousing, I like the sore bottom after (and even aspects of the spanking whilst underway). But it definitely does not work as a reward. In my relationship I can ask for a spanking anytime that I want and would, 99% of the time, get one shortly after to whatever severity I requested. I think about it often, but almost never ask, even if its been a long while since my last spanking... it just doesn't work for me.
DeleteHi Mike
Mike wrote: “How can I explain that I want a spanking but not for the sake of the spanking itself but what it represents?”
I'm sorry the therapist dropped the ball so badly for you. It sounds like his kink IQ (KIQ) is about Cosmo Beginner. There are some therapists out there who can
meet your needs, but unless you live in a large metro, they can be hard to locate. The good news is that there is much good information in the archives of this blog. And many guys are willing to answer your questions beyond what is available in past blog discussions.
The question you pose quoted above is one of the hardest both for men with a spanking fetish and their (usually) vanilla spouses. It's important for you to explain to your wife why the spanking itself is not the main reason for your arousal. The spanking is associated in your mind with arousal, but the real generator of the arousal is her willingness to exercise her authority to punish you for behavior you feel deeply should be punished; we want our wives to discipline us and provide loving feminine authority over us.
The spanking, properly understood, is a means your wife can use to exercise authority in a manner that leaves no doubt she is in charge. But the spanking itself can be and usually is experienced as punishment when it is happening. This will be hard for her to understand since she has seen how it excites you. But if it helps, point out to her what happens to your erection when the spanking starts.
Quite a few posters on this blog have noted that for them, spanking is not the only form of punishment they respond to. Others include scoldings, corner time, added chores, loss of privileges, etc. It is those punishments imposed by a loving partner that light your fire. It can light hers too when DD goes well and she discovers the many benefits of it to her.
But wait for that. The primary thing now is to open up to her, be vulnerable, and explain the dynamic as well as you can. It is sexual, but it is so much more, too. Spankings open doors in a relationship that neither of you ever knew was closed
Alan
Thanks for your thoughts guys. Some good points in there that I can use to explain it to my wife. Mike
DeleteI am also of the opinion that spanking as a reward does not work in the concept of DD that most of us here are chasing. My wife also brought it up once, that maybe your spanking should be treated as a reward instead, so that maybe you would be more motivated to behave better, but I explained it to her in the same way as Alan, Dan and Mark, and finally she understood the difference. One way to show your commitment and readiness for real punishment is to let yourself be punished after satisfaction, the so-called post-orgasm spanking. Then maybe your wife will also be convinced that she is not doing it to satisfy you, but because you need it, and thus you will be able to respect her much more and be a better person. She also needs to understand that these spankings must be real and painful, which you actually try to avoid if possible and don't ask yourself, or if you ask, you know it will be very painful. I have realized that while many of us in fantasy want and long for such punishments, in real life we still partially want to control it all. According to Aunt Kay's concept, the woman should actually take all this control and responsibility, and you should just accept the consequences, which are almost always extremely unpleasant and painful.
DeleteReally good explanation Mike and make since.
ReplyDeleteHave you guy ever wish you could find a good movie that represents what most of us are wanting in our relationship.
For me the porn really isn't represented of my desires and I've thought the Queen of Kings would be a good starting place. If Carrie disciplined Doug.
If it started with Doug coming to her and confessing his needs and Carrie getting fed up with his behavior and decided to live in a DD marriage.
Friday Night Lights: Coach Taylor's success secret is some old-school coaching from Tammi. Mindy Riggins makes rules for Billy that he keeps forgetting about. Even though it's now an FLR show, Julie gets spanked every time she's annoying.
Delete