The Club - Meeting 477 - Domestic Discipline and BDSM

“Men always remember a woman who caused them concern and uneasiness.” —  Coco Chanel

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Mine again felt important with respect to Anne slowly getting more and more comfortable with exercising a new level of strictness. 

 

As is far too often the case, I went out with a friend and had too many beers. As is even more often the case, after I got home I decided it was a fine night to watch movies until late enough that it virtually guaranteed a bad morning.  But, this time, instead of letting that happen, Anne walked into my home office less than an hour after our normal bedtime and told me it was time to get wrap it up and get ready for bed.

 

Now, in the past, that kind of order often led to some resentment and outward shows of resistance.  This time, however, I complied without arguing, which is notable in and of itself.  The next morning, I was actually feeling a little proud of myself for this somewhat atypical instance of obedience in that particular context, but Anne greeted me in the kitchen with, “I guess you know what will be happening to you this afternoon?" 

 

I objected, “But, I obeyed when you told me to come to bed last night.”  Her response? “That's why you are getting one spanking instead of two.”

 

 

This all follows on a recent conversation we had; one that began while I was over her knee.  She was lecturing me during short breaks between volleys of swats and asked—somewhat rhetorically—“You’ve been spanked for this before. Do I just need to spank you more often to get through to you?”  Given that she was at that very moment wearing out my bottom with her bath brush, I found it difficult to agree, so I blurted out something very equivocal, like “Maybe, Ma’am.” 

 

Later, in bed, I was more honest, admitting candidly that there are things that DD hasn’t been that effective at eradicating and, yes, I think frequency and consistency, or lack thereof, are part of the problem.  It wasn’t an easy thing to admit, knowing that it was the equivalent of affirmatively asking for her to spank me more often. But, I also felt like her rhetorical question was right on the money regarding aspects of our dynamic that aren’t where they should be if actual, longer-term behavior change is the goal.

 

 

But, more on that in a later post.

 

Things were a little slow here on the blog last week, but we did get a few interesting responses to Alan’s topic about intimacy from DD.  I especially liked this from TB:

 

There is no question for me that spanking creates increased intimacy but it is in many ways an unbalanced intimacy in that I am fully exposed physically & emotionally. My journals, mostly daily, are very open. I am obviously very exposed during spanking and I almost always feel ‘reset’ after. It is very much ‘me focussed time’ and my wife is very happy & supportive of this element of our relationship. She has her, completely different needs which often create a similar intimacy.

 

Something about his “unbalanced intimacy” characterization seems spot on.

 

Alan summarized the responses to the topic as a whole this way:

 

“The comments above are especially rich in their resonance to my spanking-related sense of intimacy. Searching for a phrase or two that sums it up, I think vulnerability and openness come close: Spanking reduces or removes my ego and defensiveness, which otherwise gets in the way of connecting on a deep level with her.

 

As someone pointed out, there is an imbalance in this in the sense that I am the one who gets taken down (literally, in the case of my pants), and she is in control. But I think my openness brought about by being spanked acts to allow her to also open up, and intimacy between us can be the result.”

 

Although I don’t feel a sense of intimacy immediately before or during a spanking, I get what he means about how a spanking reduces or removes ego and defensiveness, which in turn leads to more open and fully honest conversations about needs and desires.

 

Also, in the spirit of welcoming more women to the discussion, I want to think Norton’s partner, A.J., for participating.  She provided a nice summary of benefits she and Norton get from DD respectively, many of which would be generally applicable to couples in these relationships:

 

My experience is that DD enhances intimacy in a variety of ways. For Norton, it grounds him, provides a form of reparenting or balances and compensates for his experiences during childhood. The focused loving attention, clear direct communication, clear consequences, and strong physical sensation of spanking, sometimes being held and reassured afterward, are in direct contrast to his childhood. It helps with his PTSD. This is a way to re-set his nervous system, and it works to ground him. For me, it challenges and compels me to consciously resist my familial and cultural conditioning by taking risks, asserting myself clearly, directly, and physically, and centering my experience and needs. I also really need to attend to whether or not I'm in the state of mind and at an energy level that allows me to be fully present for the encounter. We spend time talking about our feelings and observations as part of our DD in preparation for Discipline or maintenance spanking. The focused time we set aside for our regular sessions creates consistency, builds trust, and so fosters intimacy, sometimes without spanking, usually with.

 

With that recap, let’s move on to one of the other topics you all suggested a couple of weeks ago.  Antonio had this suggestion:

 

“I would be interested to know for how many couples DD goes beyond spanking and uses other avenues. I know our DD grew out of a BDSM situation so there are other things used as discipline in our relationship that others may not use. I would be curious to know about the different flavors of DD others have.”

 

Al followed up with:

 

“The discussion of DD as related to BDSM is certainly an idea. Did any of us come to DD from BDSM? Or did instituting DD lead to an exploration of other areas of BDSM, Femdom in particular (pegging, butt plugs, enemas, chastity devices, feminization, cuckolding)? However - Dan may not want to go there - it does venture outside the focus of his blog and perhaps risks casting DD unfavorably. Back in the day, when the DWC was a real club with a private Yahoo group, Aunt Kay absolutely did not allow any discussion of sex or BDSM in the group - and if we had all been local instead of virtual, she probably would have spanked anyone who brought it up."

 

Although I have said that this blog isn’t about Femdom or BDSM, I am not quite as rigid about the separation as it sounds like Aunt Kay was.  (As an aside, Al’s reference to Aunt Kay spanking the other men is something I have to admit I can’t help but feeling some regret at never experiencing.  Not because I think it would be fundamentally different from what Anne delivered but because I know it did happen, and her husband Jerry has even told me that if we had ever met in person, it almost certainly would have happened.  She had such a profound impact (no pun intended) on my life, I can’t help but think I missed something by not making that in-person connection, even if it would have ended quite painfully.)

 

I should say in advance, although I believe that DD and BDSM are very different things, I do think they have overlapping practices that make it hard sometimes to distinguish between the two.  Al’s comment indicates Aunt Kay lumped sex and BDSM together, and I do think the sexual context is different in DD and BDSM, respectively.  It’s not that I don’t think DD has strong erotic undertones, but I think they are undertones, while with BDSM they are almost the whole ballgame.  I see sexual energy and eroticism as a byproduct of DD, or sometimes a means that leads to other goals.  On the other hand, in a sense BDSM is sex, regardless of whether it culminates in intercourse.

 

I also believe the underlying motivations are very different.  I’ve always believed that if there is little or no emphasis on accountability, penance, and behavior modification, then whatever the couple is doing isn’t really DD. The word discipline in DD inherently defines and sets boundaries on the lifestyle is about. BDSM, on other hand, may have no behavioral modification or real punishment element.  That’s not to say that some BDSM practices might not be linked to things like accountability and penance, but those are not inherent in and necessary to BDSM in the way they are part and parcel of DD.

 

I also think there is an element of fantasy and intentional exploration of something “unreal” in BDSM that is almost the opposite of DD.  In fact, I once saw a comment from someone who was into comparing the two: “They do scenes.  We do life.”

 

 

With that long introduction, let’s talk about the topic of BDSM as suggested by Antonio and expanded upon by Al. 

 

Did you come to DD from BDSM?  Or, perhaps it was the other way around and you started with DD but later added BDSM elements?

 

Or, maybe you don’t think there are any overlaps between DD as you practice it and BDSM as you conceive of it?

 

For us, I guess you could say that we very briefly experimented with BDSM, though I didn’t label it that way at the time.  As I have said many times before, I discovered adult spanking via a segment on the old HBO series Real Sex. I don’t recall much about how I introduced it to Anne, but shortly after seeing it I bought a flimsy leather paddle at an adult “novelty” store. Our experiments didn’t last long, but it all reduced to a kind of foreplay, with scenes in which she pretended to be punishing me, but there was nothing “real” about it.  That phase was so short and so surface-level that I don’t really think about it as the beginning point for our DD, except in the limited sense that I’m sure that Real Sex segment was what stimulated enough interest on my part that I explored the subject of F/m spanking on the internet and stumbled on the DWC.

 

How about some of the specific practices Al associates with BDSM?  I’ll go through each of them and comment on whether it’s ever been a “thing” for us.

 

Pegging and butt plugs?  Am I wrong in believing that those are right up there with spanking in the extent to which they are pretty commonly experimented with among even fairly vanilla couples?  It’s something we tried a few times, several years ago.  The fact that we don’t today isn’t, I think, because either of us had an aversion to it.  It was just one of those kinky experiments that may not have generated enough interest to keep it up. That said, Anne has gained a huge amount of confidence in the intervening years, and I wonder whether she would be more dominant and aggressive with a strap-on today, such that it might feel like real punishment and/or a conscious means of establishing the hierarchy with her on top.

 

Enemas?  Not something we’ve ever done for sexual or disciplinary purposes.

 

Chastity devices?  This has never been my thing, though I do get the impression that they have some appeal for many wives who start exploring the FLR side of a disciplinary relationship. But, I don’t have many examples to point to in support of that proposition.

 

Feminization? This isn’t something Anne has shown any interest in, and my own interest is pretty limited.  At one point, I bought some male “panties,” which I wore not so much for sexual stimulation as because they kept my mind very focused on my ass, either before a spanking or after.  To me, it was almost like another kind of penance or accountability, which kept my mind on the prospect of a spanking or the after-effects of one.  Wearing them also was embarrassing enough--even though I was the only one who saw me in them--that it added some additional humbling to the experience.

 

Cuckolding and hot-wifing?  Anne has always had a problem with bringing third-parties into the relationship in any sexual way.  She admits to being very jealous by nature.  There are times that I find the concept of a “hot wife” or cuckolding relationship attractive, but mostly only as a fantasy.  I don’t think I’m as jealous as Anne, but I have a feeling that if anything like that ever became a reality, I would have a very hard time handling her having a relationship with another man. Though, perhaps interestingly, I don't find the prospect of her spanking another man disturbing at all.

As I said, while I don't think it would ever happen, I do sometimes fantasize about it or about scenarios that combine cuckolding and DD.  I also have some ongoing fantasies about Anne forcing a cuckolding relationship on me or ordering me to take a spanking from another man. I’m very confident it’s nothing we will ever explore in reality, but given how deeply rooted the idea of imposed discipline is in my DD motivations, I don’t think it’s surprising that having a M/m dynamic imposed on me has some theoretical appeal.

 

I know this subject is probably embarrassing for many of us, but since none of us are using our real identities, I hope you will feel free to open up a bit.  And, please, no judgey comments.

I’ll close with this somewhat funny coincidence, in light of this week’s topic.  As many of you know, I’m big into motorcycles.  A while back, I bought a collection of old editions of a magazine that was once popular in the biker community. Kind of a biker Penthouse, with pictorials of customized bikes adorned with semi-naked women.  Given the “macho” biker ethos, it was about the last place I expected to find a very Femdom-ish reference, yet here was this motorcycle advertisement on the back cover:

 

 

Have a great week.