The Club - Meeting 435 - Fantasy vs. Reality

“Fantasy is hardly an escape from reality. It's a way of understanding it.” -Lloyd Alexander

 

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Several in Tennessee obviously didn’t. Another week, another fucking school shooting.  What is it we were saying here the last couple of weeks about how we are somehow failing our youth?  Fuck, fuck, fuck, I am fucking sick of this.  But, please U.S. politicians, keep those thoughts and prayers coming.  

On a more personal if much, much less important note, Anne finally got a bit of good news on her hand injury.  It’s not resolved yet, but at least maybe it’s finally moving in the right direction.  So, perhaps a return to discipline will be in our future.  Surprisingly, my behavior hasn’t been that bad during this downtime, but a couple of nights ago, I had an instance of carelessness about something important that definitely should earn a severe one.  Unfortunately, by the time Anne’s hand is in shape to deliver, I'll probably feel much less contrite.

 

Anyway, we had some good discussions last week.  I didn’t tally the “votes,” but it seemed like a relatively even split between those whose DD yearnings were rooted first in spanking versus those for whom it is an authority thing. Though it’s probably an error to talk about it in binary terms at all, since it seems that for most of us the line has never been all that distinct and/or the motivations—or our insights and self-awareness about them—have changed substantially over time.

 

Near the end of the week, ZM observed that a few weeks ago some comments started centering on “fantasy vs. reality” but it fizzled out. He then went back to a post from April of 2016, in which I posted verbatim an email ZM had sent me regarding how his fantasies about DD differed from the reality he was experiencing.  I went back and read it and the associated comments.  Since I am struggling mightily again to come up with an original post for this week, here is a lightly pared down version of that post, together with some of the more interesting comments.  Combined, it’s a long read, but well worth the time.

 

ZM’s observations on “fantasy vs. reality”

 

I know that I crave "real" discipline, punishment, and control, that which most people would rather avoid. This need for control and discipline is a perpetual enigma that forever lives in the never-never land between fantasy and reality. My fantasy and reality are far apart and in direct conflict:

• In my fantasy, boundaries are imposed and enforced.  In reality, I rebel against any boundaries. 
• In my fantasy, my actions have consequences.  In reality, I try to avoid negative consequences. 
• In my fantasy, I crave punishment.  In reality, I fear punishment. 
• In my fantasy, I must give up control.  In reality, I love to be in control. 
• In my fantasy, I am weak and powerless.  In reality, I am strong and powerful.

 

I am incredibly fortunate because I have someone who loves me enough to understand and fulfill my unusual needs and desires. It is complicated by the fact that my fantasy needs it to be "real," but at the same time, we have a great relationship and equal partnership, so our reality needs it to be "fantasy." In the end, we allow the fantasy to enter our reality from time to time, but our relationship will never be in any way defined by it, but rather by our love for each other. We are loving, we are in love, and everything we do is inspired by love. Even the very firmness, strictness, harshness and at times almost meanness that she unleashes as part of this fantasy ultimately flows from our love for each other. It is very ironic that this fantasy which is based on power and control (both of which have absolutely no place in love) makes us ever closer to each other and more in love.

 

So here I am waiting, remembering the last time and anticipating the next, not knowing when it will be; It could be tomorrow, next week, or next month.  I crave it because the whole experience is unbelievably exciting, and not knowing when it will next happen only adds to the excitement.  At the same time I also fear the real emotion involved, since I don’t like disappointing her. As more time passes from the last punishment, the desire grows and I want it to happen again. But in order for it to have meaning, it has to be for real infractions and she has to have emotions to vent. Because I love her and only want to make her happy, I will never try to hurt her feelings, so infractions are not intentional, but rather things that I do without thinking or that result from my bad habits.  Also, because she is kind and understanding, she might not choose to punish me even when I deserve it.  However, living together inevitably ensures that infractions will happen from time to time, and at least at some of these times, she will be in the mood to use my fantasy to make her feelings clear.

 

When she decides to punish me, I am immediately overcome by powerful emotions as my fantasy collides with the reality of my impending punishment. My heart races and I feel a surge of adrenaline bordering on fear. I may think it is unfair or undeserved and try to defend my actions or plead my innocence, but ultimately, it was me who asked for this, who gave her this authority, and who said that her word is final, so I give in to the inevitable.  As soon as the punishment actually starts, everything becomes very real very quickly, and the fantasy is forgotten for a time, totally replaced by reality.  I am initially surprised by how it is more painful than I remembered, since I tend to forget the pain and remember only the experience (kind of like having a baby). At first, I try to fight the punishment and just endure until the end.  I am more focused on being strong than thinking about why I am being punished. As the punishment continues, I start to feel like I can't take any more, and that it will never end.  But of course, it doesn't end yet, since at that point true punishment is just beginning.  The pain, embarrassment, guilt and emotion keep building as the punishment progresses and they overpower all my defenses one by one, until in the end I surrender to and even embrace the punishment, knowing that I deserve it and need it. At that point, I relax and just absorb the lesson being taught.  Finally the punishment can end.

 

However real the punishment might have been, as soon as it is over, the conflict between reality and fantasy begins once again. Over the following days, the punishment (with all of the feelings of fear, excitement, pain, and embarrassment) is ever-present in my mind.  As I sit down, or perhaps as I walk, I feel the effects of the punishment.  The times I am not consciously aware of it, I am unconsciously replaying the punishment, what was said, what needs to change, etc. But as I remember what happened, I am seeing the reality of what happened through the lens of fantasy.  Yes it was painful, embarrassing, etc., but it was also very, very hot!

 

Again, THIS is why it works (at least for me). Even though I don't always understand this relationship between fantasy and reality, it is BECAUSE of this paradox that it is so powerful for me. As we walk over this bridge between fantasy and reality, it all at once fulfills my strongest fantasies, changes me, and strengthens our love.

• It greatly enhances communication. I hear and understand much better than if she just used verbal communication. Because of the sudden harshness and seriousness, and because it plays to my deepest fantasy, the issue is given maximum attention, but in a positive way, rather than negative. Rather than just try to evade the issue and make it go away, I actually listen. Since relationships are entirely dependent on communication, this is incredibly powerful and makes our relationship bulletproof. It changes my thinking or my mindset about the situation or behavior. Over the days that follow, the whole scene and all the emotions of it is on constant replay through my mind, and I see the situation more clearly from her viewpoint. As my mindset changes, it changes my behavior. 
• It greatly increases intimacy. In life, I am strong and always stand up for her, provide for her, and protect her.  But for a time, I am completely vulnerable to her. This vulnerability enables intimacy which creates a bond that others will never feel. 
•  It makes me love her and feel loved even more, because she cares enough about me to do anything and everything to make my fantasies reality. Sure, if she was just cold and distant, it would make a point, but I would be angry with her and would feel defensive and might pull away. Instead, she has made my fantasy reality, exactly at the time she might not feel much like doing me favors.   

Because she is using my own fantasy to communicate her own feelings, I fully hear what she says, I see things from a different perspective, I feel closer to her than ever, and it makes me want to meet her every need because of our deep love for each other.  This strengthens our relationship and empowers me to make changes that allow our lives to be better, happier, and less stressful as I become who I want to be and we achieve our dreams."

Marisa’s Response

 

I believe the challenge for any woman taking on the responsibility of disciplining her husband is moving him from his fantasy to a shared reality for both of them. Whatever the fantasy is, it will take over his life if it is not altered with reality. I think the strap or paddle (or cane if you use one) makes him confront reality quickly. If you don't believe that watch what happens to his erection when the punishment begins. Consistent and if necessary progressive discipline is what makes him confront that reality more and more and hold on to the fantasy less and less. The fact is these guys do need real accountability, real discipline and real punishment. Aunt Kay was right about saying the marks should last for several days or a week and he should know and remember what happened because he dared to disobey or break a rule. His fantasy is what makes him accept corporal punishment but its an adolescent little boy looking for a mommy figure fantasy. But he is not a little boy and I am not his mommy. I am his wife and when I punish him I want him to understand that and gradually replace that silly fantasy with the reality I love him but he gets punished every time he needs it. Looking this over, it sounds harsh but it isn't. Evey wife has a choice to pander to that fantasy while getting little or no improvement in behavior or to help her husband grow and become the best of himself. None of you guys will achieve that until you let go of your fantasy and connect with the reality that your wife is your disciplinarian today, tomorrow and the rest of your life.

 

Anonymous comment #1

 

It is often a lifelong fantasy and the fantasy is for real discipline so I am not sure that experiencing the reality -no matter how painful and humiliating- will weaken the fantasy nor do I think it is necessarily desirable. In my opinion, it is better for both to embrace the fantasy and occasionally make it very real, and real punishments should continue well past the point it is fun and leave marks and soreness that last for at least several days. If the husband is seeking this it is important for the wife to very clearly assert her authority and to leave no doubt that she can punish him whenever she wants however she wants and how severely she wants. In the beginning, this can be amplified by occasionally punishing him quite severely for something very minor, when he is not expecting it. She can even tell him she knows that it wasn't a big deal but that she needs him to understand that her authority to punish him is unlimited (unless he decides to no longer have this as part of the relationship) and she can punish him whenever she feels like it. If she does this and this is what he wants then she will also reap the benefit of improved behaviors and attitudes and he will be very loving and attentive to her needs. I too am unsure about the Mommy figure because I don't feel that way towards her at any time, but during and after punishments I very much feel like a "bad boy" and at least temporarily makes me less arrogant and cocky, which is good for everyone around me.

KD Pierre

 

To me "fantasy" is a tricky word to use in the context of DD. I would prefer "expectation," i.e: how did I envision DD when we were deciding on it and how has the reality of it played out differently? To me "fantasy" suggests that DD is predominantly sexual, whereas, in our case, sexuality is a sizable element...........but not the only one. "Fantasy" also has a connotation of dress-up and concocted scenarios, whereas spanking may well be a fetish...but within DD it is a fetish being used for a genuine purpose.

 

For me the biggest difference between my expectations and my reality is the way Rosa has taken to all this. Even as I suggested DD, rules, punishment ideas, etc. at the beginning, something in me that craved it all to be real, still saw DD as some sort of 'game' albeit one with rules and real consequences. Rosa sees aspects of our DD as a sort of game as well.......but underneath it all, her belief is that our agreement means that she is "the boss" for real.

 

I sort of saw my obedience as my way of willingly following the rules of the game, or honoring the promises I made. She sees my obedience as a given. If asked, she would look at you with a sort of "what don't you get?" expression as she confirmed her belief in her authority. That is the thing I still can't get used to even as I admire her for her confidence and unabashed belief in her right to rule and punish. I suppose my expectation is still that she would see my submission as a much bigger deal than she does. Instead of this huge concession of rights, or this big "gift of submission", she truly sees our roles with a 'no-brainer' recognition of each of us being exactly where we are meant to be. So I guess when she has a serious discussion with me over some expectation or behavior, or when she plainly informs me that something I did or didn't do has just earned me a spanking, I am still surprised...........even though it is sort of what I was hoping for in my 'fantasy'.

 

[Note: There is a three-part comment from an anonymous wife, regarding what a “real” disciplinary spanking should be like, that is well worth reading though I’m not going to post it again here since this is already a very long post.]

 

All great stuff!  Something I really like about Marisa’s comment in particular is her view that the reality of DD is necessary to keep the fantasy from taking over the husband’s life.  It’s almost the converse—or at least the other side of the coin—from some of the observations Alan, ZM, and others have made about how the fantasy fuels the disciplinary reality. 

 

I could come up with a lengthy list of areas in which our DD reality doesn’t match my original expectations. I am using KD's preferred “expectations” here instead of “fantasies,” because there was a very short period between my discovering DD and Anne implementing it, and during that period I don’t think I really had any “fantasies” per se. Rather, I had preconceived notions of what it must be like, based largely on the Disciplinary Wives Club stories.  For me, the three areas in which there is the biggest gap between expectations and reality are:

 

• Real spankings hurt so much worse than anything I anticipated then, and even how I think of them now until right before the first swat lands. You would think that after dozens and dozens of spankings I would have very clear, accurate memory-driven expectations, yet there still is this enormous gap. 
• The DWC stories led me to believe that crying was a common outcome.  That expectation caused me no end of angst in the early days, because I was dreading the embarrassment.  All these years later, it’s still never really happened. 
• I have an attraction to the idea of being taken under my wife’s strict control, yet when she imposes real controls I feel a lot of internal resistance.

 

So, how is your Domestic Discipline or FLR relationship different from what you fantasized about or envisioned? Are they in conflict, or do they mutually reinforce each other?  When initiating DD or as the relationship developed, did you talk to your wife about your fantasies and expectations? Does she have met or unmet DD or FLR fantasies of her own that she’s told you about?

 

Have a great week.