“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” ― C.G. Jung
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.
I hope you had a good week. Mine was pretty tame, with nothing very interesting happening on any front. Winter still won’t go away, so I’ve been spending a lot of time holed up in my home office reading books, with periodic breaks to take the dogs on snowy walks.
I did come across this meme, which I thought was pretty damn funny and reminded me of some of the comments a couple of weeks ago about getting traffic tickets.
We had a fairly robust discussion about scolding and lecturing. It’s an area I suspect I may be coming back to frequently in my own marriage over the next few months, given Anne’s recent enthusiasm for speaking her mind. Philosophically, I identify pretty strongly with Alan’s observations:
Dan writes: “It's soooooo much harder when you agree to give up some autonomy and actually take actual independent direction from someone else.”
YES! But that is also the sweet spot in a DD relationship. Deep down, it’s what we both want to experience and fear experiencing.
My working theory is that most spankos who need or want to submit to authority hang onto their autonomy, sometimes desperately. It is that hanging on that seeks the release of letting go- and maybe the experience of letting go and discovering the world has not ended.
For me, a hard scolding or lecture continues to be much harder to take than a spanking, probably because it is, in fact, a newer thing for us. I’ve taken dozens and dozens of spankings in the fifteen years we’ve been doing it and, while they hurt a lot in the moment, that moment passes very quickly. That’s not always true of a verbal dressing down. As we’ve discussed many times here, one advantage of a spanking is it clears the air. I find that a lecture, however, often requires me to think longer and harder about the behavior at issue and about why I need to change it.
Anyway, onto this week’s topic. I almost skipped posting this week, because I was a little burned out on thinking and writing about domestic discipline, after a long-ish period in which it seemed to be on my mind a lot. Then, I remembered that Donn had suggested the following topic:
Dan: This might be an interesting topic for a future discussion. We have talked before about how our childhood experiences may have influenced us and our wives' perspectives, desires, and openness to DD, but we have never really delved into how various religious, ethnic and "racial" backgrounds and perspectives effect such matters. (Full disclosure: I grew up in a racially mixed family; spend a lot of time "maturing" in the Deep South, during periods when it was the "Old, Bad 'Deep South'.")
Let’s talk about that. But, I gentle warning up front that, given how polarizing discussions about religion and race can be, please keep your comments focused on how those influence our openness to or how we approach domestic discipline and our wives’ authority. I may be a little quicker on the trigger when it comes to deleting comments that some might consider offensive.
I will kick it off, though I don’t have a lot to contribute.
My first observation is that preparing this post highlighted just how thoroughly, overwhelming white is DD-related art. I paged through several hundred drawings and captioned pictures in my collection and found virtually zip with black spankers or spankees. There were a few examples on non-white participants here and there, but damn few of them.
In fact, to find spanking art that was remotely relevant, I had to look to kink-adjacent areas like cuckolding.
Many of those involved female dominance coupled with M/m sexual scenarios.
[Note: While not 100% clear, I am pretty sure the above was meant to depict a black male, as I've seen other, colorized drawings from this same artist with similar themes.]
The same was true about religious themes. I found a few “nuns slapping hands with rulers” examples, but that was about it.
One interesting aspect of this dearth of black and religious DD art is that it seems a little at odds with experience. I have seen multiple studies finding that black parents use corporal punishment more (twice as much, in fact) than white parents. Yet, that prevalence in real life doesn’t seem to be reflected at all in spanking art. Similarly, we’ve had several commenters here discuss personal anecdotes regarding spanking in religious schools, particularly Catholic schools. Yet, again, it’s not a significant focus in spanking art.
In terms of my personal experience, I don’t have much to say about race or ethnicity. I’m pretty much a mutt, though with a fairly heavy mix of English and Scotch-Irish. The English obviously have a reputation for being into spanking and caning, though my connections to the “old country” are so stale that I don’t think anything relating to my racial/ethnic background had much, if any, impact on my openness to domestic discipline.
Religious influences are a little more complicated, though I again don’t see any direct connection. I grew up part of my childhood in the Bible Belt. Spanking is obviously prevalent there, but I’m not sure how directly that is associated with any particular religious tenets in those areas. I’m also not sure how much, if at all, the prevalence of childhood corporal punishment in the Bible Belt translates into practicing DD as adults. I also grew up part of my childhood in a very heavily Catholic area, and if corporal punishment was as prevalent there, it wasn’t as openly displayed or discussed.
Where I think maybe religion could have had an indirect impact is I probably absorbed my fair share of “fire and brimstone” sermons in my early years, and who knows whether those may have instilled in me an unconscious focus on bad behavior leading to bad consequences, with that perhaps leaving me more open to a kink that focuses on hard consequences. Then there is the whole “Protestant work ethic” with all its focus on striving, self-improvement, etc. and there are many examples of Biblical wisdom advising self-discipline, and more than a few regarding helping others to discipline themselves.
That’s about all I have to offer on the topic. I look forward to any comments you may have.
As I'm a British, White Hetrosexual who went to school in the latter stages of the corporal punishment era from a stereotypes perspective I'm clearly culturally wired that way! Except my protected characteristics and my age are factors I have no control over so I'd argue if I'd been European, Brown and gay I'd still be a spanko (or at least I'd like to think so).
ReplyDeleteAs I have eluded to previously I came to Female Led spanking late in life and it is interesting to me that the art/porn that I am attracted to tends to have only one consistency, a maternal element to the spanker.
Over here their is a trans/non-binery sex workers and porn advocate who can tick all the equality diversity and inclusion boxes that goes by the initials PB, they are also a bookable disciplinarian. They do porn which is classy and respectful to all. I mention this because they can still do traditional maternal as well (and do it very well). This is my way of saying the other influences to DD evolve and whilst what switches our switch is personal to us times are changing when it comes to the breath of images and perspectives we can now find. For me that is a good thing all round. Cheers GLM.
GLM, sorry, I just noticed I neglected to respond to this. For me, I wouldn't say that art with a strong maternal element is the only kind that attracts me, but it definitely is a major theme.
DeleteIf I could switch up my attributes to some other racial, religious and sexual-preference mix than I was born into, would I still be attracted to DD? I really don't know. Because I came to it late in life, I kind of doubt it, because it seems like there was some particular combination of life experiences that triggered it, and if you changed the demographic boxes I check my life paths would have inevitably changed. But, I really don't know.
I believe religion has supplied its share of guilt, which likely drives some spanking impulses. And there is a history in the catholic church of flagellants doing “penance by being whipped or self-whipping. And I have some personal experience with “ catholic guilt and heard many tales of “Jewish guilt” as a young man asserting that Jewish women were often potential spankos ( something my personal experience did not bear out)
ReplyDeleteBut maybe Race and spanking are more interesting to consider together as opposed to religion in part because, as you point out, black spankers or spankee examples in the spanking literature are “virtually zip.” I have been baffled by this and that the black profile in the spanking community is not higher.
It could mean, of course, that blacks are not attracted to spanking, either erotic spanking or disciplinary spanking. I know of no research that has directly addressed that. But given the data that indicates the wide use of spanking among blacks in child rearing, it seems doubly paradoxical.
I only look at Spanking Tube infrequently but don’t remember seeing a black couple video while other minorities, notably Hispanics, are represented on there and (I think) some blogs. So, lots of questions and not many answers. I hope some others who do comment will offer some insight,
Alan
Alan, there also perhaps a danger in drawing any conclusions from the dearth of black participants in spanking art, because it could say more about the artists than about DD participants.
DeleteThat is so for content producers acting as third parties and indeed there may be a pastern of bias there. But that doesn't; fully explain the relatively ( apparent) low participation of blacks in self initiated media
DeleteAlan
Alan, true. Also see GH's similar point below about market forces in porn and what that may indicate about non-white participation rates.
DeleteA couple of points : firstly, like GLM I am a white, heterosexual, Brit of a certain age. (Electricity had been invented when I went to school in London, but probably not long before ! ) I know that - as you said Dan - England has a reputation for corporal punishment but I can’t say I was ever aware of it actually happening. I had one close call at school but it was just a threat, I don’t remember anyone ever actually receiving such a punishment so I’m far from sure the reputation is deserved. Secondly, when I was casting about online for Fm DD info around the end of 2021 - when I discovered this blog - I was surprised to find that a substantial majority of the sites I found were Christian religious DD sites. I had no idea such a world exists but apparently there is a community that believes that Mf DD is a normal and necessary part of religious family life. I admit this made me feel very uncomfortable - not because it’s Mf, but because if it’s imposed by region, it implies that it’s not consensual in the way that I think it is for all the relationships of people on this blog. TG
ReplyDelete"I was surprised to find that a substantial majority of the sites I found were Christian religious DD sites. I had no idea such a world exists but apparently there is a community that believes that Mf DD is a normal and necessary part of religious family life. I admit this made me feel very uncomfortable - not because it’s Mf, but because if it’s imposed by region, it implies that it’s not consensual in the way that I think it is for all the relationships of people on this blog."
DeleteThat's my issue with it as well. The M/f dynamic already seems riskier with respect to consent than F/m, simply because of the different physical strength. Then, add on top of that the idea that a vengeful god has ordered the arrangement. The consent in that situation is so rife with potential problems.
But I have no problem with Mf per se. Cynthia Ellen who frequently contributes here is clearly happily in such a relationship (Although she seems to exhibit many of the same wishes to take it further that I see from many of us from time to time.). But I take your point, physical differences do make it even more important that it is genuinely consensual. There is a phrase commonly heard in the BDSM world : “safe, sane and consensual”. I think that strongly applies in an Mf DD relationship. TG
DeleteMy impression is that “Christian DD” is a kink that is driven mainly by women who want to be spanked by their husbands. I think the idea that it is God’s will that they “submit” to their husbands makes them feel that their spanking kink is more legitimate. Women who are into Christian DD tend, in my experience, to be prejudiced against men who want to be on the receiving end of DD because they believe that “real men” should be dominant. Their idea that DD doesn’t have to be consensual, since it is God’s will, could be risky, for the reason you point out, Dan. On the other hand, when a man agrees to submit to his wife, real discipline doesn’t always feel entirely consensual either. If it was entirely consensual, it wouldn’t seem real, would it?
DeleteGH
TG, I should emphasize too that I don't have a problem with the M/f dynamic per se. In fact, one person I met through our respective blogs and consider to be a real friend now is in such a dynamic. She's given me a lot of insight into just how similar our drives are. But, as you say, the power dynamic is different and the reality of consent probably needs to be more explicit. Though, I wonder whether in the M/f dynamic the woman sometimes craves the whole "consensual non-consent" thing, just as we in the F/m dynamics sometimes do. Complicated stuff . . .
DeleteGH, good points all. Unfortunately, I don't have enough personal experience with the women in Christian DD to have much insight into their thought process.
DeleteI'm white, heterosexual, and American, so I'm only slightly different from other posters. I grew up in a fairly religious area, but not the Bible Belt. However, my family attended a fundamentalist Christian church. Certainly, my parents believed in corporal punishment, but didn't actually practice it very often. Our schools allowed paddling, so obviously corporal punishment was accepted in our community (in the 1960s and 1970s).
ReplyDeleteIn my experience in the BDSM community, I would say that the prevailing opinion I heard was that an interest in spanking was completely independent of how the person had been treated as a child. I know people who had no physical punishment as children, but really wanted it as adults.
I think part of the attraction to physical punishment comes from associating it with sexual feelings. Part of that can just be conditioning, where there's a sexual experience alongside a spanking experience. Another part is that the nerves that service the genitals also service the buttocks. This is one of the reasons I don't think it is appropriate to use corporal punishment on children.
There's also the aspect of nakedness as arousing, especially when only one person is undressed and the other is fully clothed. This leads to embarrassment and submission.
This leads me to believe the impulse for having a Fm DD relationship is pretty independent of other factors, like race or religion.
You would have to get input from someone of another race to really get a reading, and I'm not sure how you manage that. From the limited exposure I've had to black people in the BDSM community, I think there might be a cultural factor that's just different than how white people experience physical punishment. Where we might find it liberating, I suspect the association in the black community might be with oppression.
I don't have a massive sample size, but I have had a number of encounters with female submissives of various religions. I didn't notice any significant difference about their desire for spankings. It seems like the genes for wanting to be spanked are just distributed evenly across the population. But race, culture, or religion could make it less desirable to partake.
"In my experience in the BDSM community, I would say that the prevailing opinion I heard was that an interest in spanking was completely independent of how the person had been treated as a child. I know people who had no physical punishment as children, but really wanted it as adults."
DeleteThis has been my impression from discussions here on the blog, and it's been one of the big surprises. I always assumed there would be some correlation between being spanked as a child and having a spanking fetish later in life. But, I just haven't seen any such pattern here. Some grew up with strict, spanking parents and miss that dynamic as adults. Some never experienced parental or school spankings but want them as adults. And, everything in between.
Dan, you may be right that being spanked as a kid does not necessarly lead to adult spanking. I was spanked at school, but never at home. In fact my parents were pretty clueless and I had no boundaries. I was a quite a rebel, always getting into trouble with guns, drugs, and speeding on large motorcycles at 15, never even wearing a helmet. It's a wonder I survived a lifetime taking risks that I would not do now. One of the main attractions for me about adult DD and F/M spanking is having boundaries imposed on me. A good spanking always calms me down, and makes me feel loved and noticed. Because of DD, I no longer drive recklessly or drink as much, meaning I'll probably live longer.
DeleteNorton, your raising seems to have been a lot like mine. Though, I'd say I did really stupid things because I had no boundaries, but I did NOT get in trouble that often (other than speeding tickets), largely because I was (a) lucky, and (b) smart enough to get myself out of a lot of messes. But, I absolutely think that dynamic contributed big time to my interest in DD once I discovered the DWC. When you grow up without boundaries, it's pretty much all on you to get yourself out of messes. And, you may have a big tendency to create those messes, because that's what you've always done in the past. So, you have this nasty combination of a proclivity for creating messy, risky situations, plus a sense of being completely alone and solely responsible for getting yourself out of those situations.
DeleteRich Person, I think you make some excellent points. In my own case, I don’t think my spanking fetish is completely independent of my childhood experiences, but I think I must have had some innate proclivity to eroticize something I didn’t like. I think you are also right that spanking becomes sexualized for some of us because it involves the shame of partial nudity. To be honest, I have never understood why any parents, including my own, thought that it was a good idea to bare bottoms for spankings while simultaneously teaching us to have a sense of shame about nudity. I strongly agree with your point that spanking children is a bad idea because, although the experience may not be felt as sexually shaming for most children, it definitely is for some, as it was for me. Jillian Keenan makes that argument forcefully in her book “Sex with Shakespeare”. (I think that was the title). Like you, I have also thought about the possibility that people from racial groups and families that have traumatizing experiences of real oppression in their cultural memory may be less apt to eroticize the kind of power exchange involved in adult DD. Dan’s post includes a drawing of a white man, presumably a cuckold, being spanked by a black man in front of his wife. The prevalence of such images in cuckold porn shows that lots of masochistic white men have eroticized that racially charged humiliation, but there doesn’t appear to be a market for the racial inversion of that trope. Might the ability to eroticize such humiliation be a psychological luxury of white privilege? Just a thought.
DeleteGH
Norton and Dan, I think you guys have put your finger on something that makes the F/M variant of DD feel reasonable or justified. I don’t want to push gender essentialism too far, but let’s face it, we men are more prone to doing stupid, risky stuff than women are. Women get into trouble less than men, and they don’t risk life and limb as often as men do. Therefore, in my mind, it makes sense for women to hold the handle of the hairbrush in a DD relationship. Maybe I am just rationalizing something I like for purely sexual reasons, but doesn’t that make sense?
DeleteGH
GH, you said, "I have also thought about the possibility that people from racial groups and families that have traumatizing experiences of real oppression in their cultural memory may be less apt to eroticize the kind of power exchange involved in adult DD." I don't know whether that's true, but it does make a lot of intuitive sense to me. Another, similar angle may be that we probably tend to eroticize and fantasize about things we don't have. When we feel like we have a lot of control and agency and even power, we probably tend to eroticize having that power taken away.
Delete"We men are more prone to doing stupid, risky stuff than women are."That's undoubtedly true. While women are catching up when it comes to life-shortening activities like smoking and drinking, the statistics are still crystal clear that men are way more likely than women to die early from a variety of accidents and bad behavioral choices. Now, in fairness, men also are massively overly represented in dangerous jobs, which does skew the figures a bit. But, we also dominate the Darwin Awards for sure.
DeleteDan wrote: “When we feel like we have a lot of control and agency and even power, we probably tend to eroticize having that power taken away.”
DeleteDan, that reminds me of something I have thought about. Considering that I am in a FLR that includes F/M discipline, one could say that my wife wears the pants or that I am under her thumb or whatever. In fact, part of the turn-on is that I would feel embarrassed if people knew she has that power over me. On the other hand, one could say that I have more real power because I didn’t suspend my career and forego economic advancement to raise children the way she did. I wonder whether my feelings about being disciplined by my wife would be the same if I was also economically subordinate to her? Disempowerment feels erotic because I have power in the first place.
GH
GH wrote:” … Like you, I have also thought about the possibility that people from racial groups and families that have traumatizing experiences of real oppression in their cultural memory may be less apt to eroticize the kind of power exchange involved in adult spanking.”
DeleteThis is a very interesting hypothesis, entirely plausible but difficult to test scientifically. Jewish people come to mind as a kind of natural experiment of the thesis since both black and Jewish populations share cultural memories of traumatizing oppression. However, sadly there are many other racial/ethnic populations with memories of oppression. Culture would be a particularly challenging variable to control here if such a study was seriously undertaken. SES attributes could also be involved in a population’s interest/involvement in spanking.
It would be very interesting to hear from a black person or someone intimately experienced with black experiences. Until Dan raised the question, I never thought about racial/ethnic differences in spanking interest. But certainly, based on internet-published material, adult spanking seems to be largely a white middle-class phenomenon.
Alan
Modern society seriously undermines the male-female roles sculpted by evolution, particularly in the steady trend toward valuing and relying upon brains over brawn. I am not at all suggesting that females as a group are more intelligent than males -although some certainly are. But the emerging reality is that brawn or raw strength matters less and less in today’s world.
DeleteWe are entering an environment in which females may have been shaped by evolutionary forces, making them better equipped than many males to cope. If that becomes more and more the case, the argument for females gaining and using more power in relationships seems likely. These long-term but seemingly inexorable trends do not guarantee more female-led DD relationships. In fact, the power-exchanging dynamic of F/M might go in the opposite direction as women gain power.
But for right now, in my personal experience, I know quite a few smart women who also have an ample supply of common sense that could make them terrific disciplinarians -- and for two women in my personal experience -did make them terrific if not natural disciplinarians.
Alan
"I wonder whether my feelings about being disciplined by my wife would be the same if I was also economically subordinate to her? Disempowerment feels erotic because I have power in the first place." That's a really interesting question, GH. It's hard for me to say, since I always made a lot more $$ than my wife. Though, since retirement, neither of us is making any money, and there was a period last year when she was still earning and I wasn't. Those changes didn't have any impact on my desire for DD. But, admittedly, those aren't quite the same as your example, and I do wonder how I would feel about being dominated by a woman who made a lot more than me. Honestly, I think I might see being married to some powerful corporate CEO-like earner as a turn on but, again, there's no way of knowing in advance.
DeleteAlan, I’d go further than that. Looking at the ongoing shift in the relative importance of brain and brawn, looking at the rise of women in senior business roles, politics and medicine (to name just three examples) and looking at the shift in university degrees, I think it’s safe to say we’re heading towards a far more female dominated society than has been seen for (literally) thousands of years. I think that broadly speaking, women are more intelligent than men and also more balanced. The last half century has seen humongous changes in gender in society after some thousands of years when women to a greater or lesser extent were regarded as possessions of men. (Some parts of her world are moving much faster than others.). TG
DeleteThis discussion about the possibility of a future dominated by women reminds my of an article I read recently (in the New York Times, I believe). It was an article by a woman journalist about the impressive academic achievements and the confidence of today’s girls. One school girl said to the journalist, “Women are superior to men. They just are. You’re a woman. You know that.” She added that, sure, men are physically stronger and are better for heavy manual labour “like farming”, but that women are superior for most things “in the modern world.” It gave me a jolt to encounter words like that from a school girl because it sounded like something you hear from “female supremacist” proponents of FLR, like Elise Sutton. I have always been turned on by female supremacist arguments in the context of femdom, but I have never taken them seriously. In fact, I generally assume that female supremacists like Elise Sutton are, in fact, men masquerading as women to cater to male fantasies about dominant women. After reading that article, however, I typed into Google, “Are women superior to men?” I expected Google to direct me to femdom and FLR websites. But to my surprise, Google brought up a wealth of serious psychological, sociological, and biological science articles making a totally non-kinky case that women are, in fact, superior to men. Maybe women really will become the dominant sex in the near future, if that school girl is representative of her generation.
DeleteGH
Thanks, GH, for your responses. I agree, "it makes sense for women to hold the handle of the hairbrush in a DD relationship."
DeleteAlan said, "We are entering an environment in which females may have been shaped by evolutionary forces, making them better equipped than many males to cope. If that becomes more and more the case, the argument for females gaining and using more power in relationships seems likely." I have wondered if we will see places (maybe small towns) where women are in charge. For a man, it would be interesting to live in a town where you knew all the men were disciplined by their partners. Would the women be wise enough to make that work?
Also, thanks for other responses. I wasn't expecting that much discussion.
In considering the effects of women gaining and using power vis a vie men, we should stay mindful of the power exchange implicit in many F/M relationships. There isn’t going to be much of an F/M power exchange in a relationship where women already have power.
DeleteIn fact, to the extent power exchanges drive the interest and need for adult spanking, one could make a case that a trend toward more women with more power might also make more women interested in M/F spanking.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, many other factors produce F/m spanking relationships beyond simple power exchanges. And it may well be that women with power do become more comfortable and prepared to take up the hairbrush when it is needed.
Alan
You make a good point, Alan. If women become dominant in society, and more economically powerful than men in relationships, things could go either way, and individual women and men would probably be affected in different ways. Traditionally, men are supposed to wear the pants, so it feels like a reversal of patriarchal norms to be dominated and disciplined by our wives. In my mind, that is part of the erotic allure. The power exchange is a reversal of patriarchy, which feels transgressive. But I think M/F DD is also a transgressive power exchange because nowadays women are supposed to be equal. I know women who feel conflicted by their erotic desire to be spanked because that seems like a betrayal of feminism. Now, imagine that feminism were eventually to overshoot the goal of gender equality and we ended up with an outright reversal of patriarchy. Some powerful women might feel liberated to enjoy M/F DD because it would feel less like a threat to feminist values than it does in a society where men still dominate. Other women might feel empowered by their superior social status to wield the hairbrush. Who knows? In any case, I think there will always be some element of “power exchange” in DD relationships of either orientation, equality being the baseline against which the domination of either sex would be measured. I think erotic play spanking is already almost mainstream, but serious DD will probably always be somewhat transgressive.
DeleteGH
This is a really great thread, guys. Truly thought provoking.
DeleteGH, I suspect the observation by the young woman in the article you cited may be fairly indicative of the attitudes of many of her peers. As TG notes, women are certainly on the ascendency when it comes to various credentialing, like college and grad school graduation rates. I also do think there is something to the concerns that the latest two generations of boys/men are kind of lost and something has gone wrong in the way we're raising boys versus girls.
Just as it was wrong when women were deemed the weaker sex, however, it's probably equally wrong to announce the ascendency of the matriarchy based on female superiority is upon us. I've worked in two large, fairly progressive (within their admittedly still somewhat male-dominated fields) organizations and worked with and under a variety of different leaders. I've experienced dumb male leaders, and I've experienced dumb female leaders. I've experienced bullying male leadership behavior and bullying female leadership behavior. I've worked with men who let their ambition cloud their judgment and I've worked with women who let ambition cloud their judgment. I can also say pretty confidently that the best leaders I worked with tended to combine the more stereotypical strengths of BOTH sexes, and the strongest female leaders I've worked with definitely had many traditional male personality traits.
I've lived in a white-collar world most of my adult life, but the society still needs and depends on policemen, firemen, iron workers, oil rig workers, commercial fishermen, and all those uber-dangerous jobs where men still completely dominate. What distinguishes many of those jobs isn't muscle vs. brains but, rather, the degree of personal risk involved. Men do still get most of the Darwin awards, but a major reason our death rates are higher is we tend to dominate the riskiest jobs and professions. (Though, I note the presence of a strong female fighter pilot character in Top Gun: Maverick, and popular entertainment often is ahead of what's actually going on in society.)
I think Alan and GH's observations on what female power ascendancy, if it is happening, might mean for F/m DD relationships, is really fascinating. I take some personal comfort from GH's observation that in an egalitarian world, any kind of real power exchange may be trangressive. I *like* feeling transgressive and hope there is always a dominant trend to push against.
It is fascinating to think about all this, particularly because the changes are almost certainly coming, but the consequences offer so many possible outcomes regarding adult erotic spanking behavior. We know that interest in adult spanking is probably increasing. If it’s not mainstream, it is close. But we really know little about what portion of that is or becomes DD. We also know that many women are interested in spanking, the majority of them in M/F spanking.
DeleteOn to the more speculative: there is reason to think that “spanks” have some genetic predisposition to that particular kink –and that the predispositions seem to require some sort of environmental trigger, such as being exposed to spanking when young or simply learning about it later in life.
It is clear that not everyone exposed to spanking, no matter how young or spanking ideas, becomes a spanko. It also seems clear that the “default” role in spanking is M/F for women and for most men. However, a substantial proportion of males are drawn to F/M situations, and a very much smaller number of women are “switches” or F/M in their orientation.
The cultural role’s influence on this is not clear but certainly exists given the enormous influence of patriarchy in most cultures; it is considerable. So, what happens if the cultural and economic continuum moves from patriarchy toward a mixed or even matriarchal model? The genetic effect, whatever it is, will not change (at least for a few million years), nor will the biological forces that make spanking part of many sexual make-ups.
So spanking as “a thing” is likely to continue on genetic grounds alone, but how it actually operates in human relationships is a huge unknown. We may not have to wait that long to find out. The last two generations ( at least) seem to be leaving patriarchy in the dust as they work out a diversity of new role and relationship styles.
Then too, the influence of culture on biology will be enormous in determining the outcome. Traditionally within patriarchal systems, women are supposed to be submissive and weak, looking to men for support, and therefore in the spanko world, prefer the M/F style. But is that culture, or is it biology?
We know from the many discussions on this blog over many years that some women have little or no problem becoming disciplinarians once it is clear that her husband wants it or that it is necessary for the relationship. Yet still constrained by culture, many of these women apparently are very careful about whom they share this with, if they share it at all.
The role of culture matters for males also. Given considerable evidence, including some credible surveys, that many men fantasize ( at least) about female domination in the bedroom: the question arises as to whether many males are now in the closet about wanting female-led relationships and discipline. If many men are in the closet, certainly many will consider coming “out” as the male-female relationship paradigm evolves away from patriarchy.
Alan
Alan, it's a great point that many men who might be into F/m DD may be closeted but would "come out" if the environment was more open to it and, hence, if society were to become even more open to female leadership, more might come out. And, regarding your statement that "some women have little or no problem becoming disciplinarians once it is clear that her husband wants it or that it is necessary for the relationship," I'm always a little surprised at how few women *don't* seem open to it once he gets the courage to raise it. In the decade this blog has been around, the number of men who have reported asking for it and being turned down has been incredibly small in the scheme of things.
DeleteAlso, just fyi, the incompetent Google algorithm engineers seem once again to be experimenting with the spam blockers. Many messages are being blocked, and I'm setting them free as often as I can login. The ones that still blow me away are when it suddenly moves to spam comments from weeks ago, which it's been doing with some regularity. Even dumber, it has flagged multiple comments from ME as spam on my own blog!
DeleteVery interesting points, Allan. Some comments:
DeleteIt is true that not everyone who was “exposed to spanking” becomes a spanko. As to the reverse, I wonder whether it can be said that anyone in our culture can has not been exposed to spanking. People who were never spanked themselves were nevertheless aware that spanking was a thing for some people, and the power of the human imagination is such that you don’t have to have experienced something physically to “experience” it in your mind. Thus, the power of the imagination complicates the question of biology versus culture. The extraordinary diversity of sexual desires could be explained if you consider that atop a foundation of innate biological traits and cultural influences, we erect imaginative structures that are highly individuated.
I find it interesting that Dan wasn’t a spanko until he discovered the DWC website as an adult. He was exposed to spanking in the culture as a kid, but he apparently didn’t have a strong response to it. But when he later encountered the novel idea of wives spanking husbands like naughty little boys, he was fascinated by the idea and he consciously built on it. Thus, Dan’s journey appears to be based more on an individual thought process than either biology or culture. Unlike Dan, I was excited by spanking as a child, but my current response to spanking is, nevertheless, somewhat malleable, based on mental framing. For example, I tend to fetishize spanking implements like hairbrushes, paddles, and straps to which I was exposed as a child. When I first saw a martinet in a sex shop, it did nothing for me because I associated it with dominatrix dungeon scenes rather than maternal style discipline. However, when I learned from my French wife that the martinet is the traditional spanking implement used by mothers in France, I began to fetishize it. That was a conscious act of the imagination.
How will DD evolve in the future as our society becomes more egalitarian or even shifts towards female economic dominance? My own guess is that it will empower increasing diversity that is limited only by the sexual imaginations of individual men and women. Biological tendencies will play a role. Our evolving culture will play a role. But individuals and couples will not be robotically programmed by those forces.
I would point out additionally that speculative and philosophical discussions about DD, like the one we are having now, demonstrate the importance of individual thought processes that transcend the limiting factors of biology and cultural conditioning.
GH
"Thus, Dan’s journey appears to be based more on an individual thought process than either biology or culture." Honestly GH, I don't know how much conscious "thought" was involved. As I've talked about several times here, very shortly (a few months) before discovering the DWC, I saw a segment on adult spanking on an HBO series called Real Sex. I did have a response to it and it definitely turned me on, but there wasn't anything out of the ordinary range about it. It was kinky and I was turned on by it, but that doesn't distinguish it from various other kinky things I'd read about or seen. When I discovered the DWC website, my reaction was totally different. It completely captured my attention and stayed top-of-mind for days. I don't think it was so much female authority per se, as I'd read about D/s stuff plenty of times before and it didn't do much for me. It was something about the combination of adult spanking coupled with a focus on accountability that just gut punched me. I also think now that the "maternal" aspects were a big part of it, though I didn't appreciate that as much at the time. But, none of the reaction involved much of a conscious mulling of the dynamic being presented. I had a very gut-level, visceral, instantaneous reaction.
DeleteDan wrote: “And, regarding your statement that "some women have little or no problem becoming disciplinarians once it is clear that her husband wants it or that it is necessary for the relationship," I'm always a little surprised at how few women *don't* seem open to it once he gets the courage to raise it. In the decade this blog has been around, the number of men who have reported asking for it and being turned down has been incredibly small in the scheme of things.”
DeleteDan, I think that is a testament to the pragmatic flexibility of women when it comes to managing relationships. My own wife does not eroticize spanking or female domination, and she wasn’t comfortable when I first asked for DD. She saw that I had a previously hidden sexual kink, and I think she initially wished it would just go away. But when she saw that it wasn’t going to go away and would potentially endanger the relationship, she figured it was more practical to take charge of it than to ignore it. I like to fantasize that it turns her on to discipline me. Alas, she says that it is non sexual for her, but she has nevertheless come to appreciate the power DD has given her to set priorities in our marriage and to control my behaviour and attitude. She doesn’t give me erotic foreplay spankings, and she has no interest in role playing fantasies. She only spanks me when she has a real reason. I am a bit jealous of guys who get erotic role playing, but I can’t complain because I find it sexy that she disciplines me for real and expects to be obeyed when she puts her foot down.
GH
GH, I do think women do tend to be more pragmatic about some things. I was honestly pretty shocked at how readily my wife agreed to give DD a try after I had her look at the DWC website. And, unlike what you describe with your wife, she seemed to be genuinely interested in the DWC content, though I do think she thought the whole thing was kind of weird.
DeleteI really don't know to what extent Anne's orientation to DD can be described as "sexual." You said your wife has "come to appreciate the power DD has given her to set priorities in our marriage and to control my behaviour and attitude." I think Anne definitely would agree with that. But, she also has said she loves seeing me respond to things like her directing me to do some chore, when she knows I really want to tell her to f-off and do it herself. She also likes telling me to get ready for a spanking. So, she clearly enjoys the power exchange aspects of the relationship, though I don't know whether that enjoyment for her is inherently sexual.
GH wrote: “It is true that not everyone who was “exposed to spanking” becomes a spanko. As to the reverse, I wonder whether it can be said that anyone in our culture can has not been exposed to spanking. People who were never spanked themselves were nevertheless aware that spanking was a thing for some people…”
DeleteTo the extent that is true it strengthens the argument that spanko “tendencies” are inherited or instinctual rather than learned. An experience that might ignite a lifelong interest in spanking in one person might have no influence at all on another.
Very few if any confirmed spankos would agree that they “learned” to be a spanko. It was instinctual, particularly the level of interest. (Although there may be much learning involved after one gain experience with spanking. I would compare it to musical interest. Some people have lots, some a moderate amount and some none. But if the interest(instinct) is there then what kind of music, what instrument, etc. comes for life experience (learning)
That is very possible why there are so many styles and orientations of adult spanking. Once the instinct is triggered, it is shaped by experience, probably by biology and certainly by culture.
I think as women gain more economic power and workplace leadership roles, they are also taking more leadership in relationships with men. More women are wearing the pants in the family. I see that as a positive sign. Whether more of those authoritative women women will physically punish their men remains to be seen. But to me that is normal. I have basically been in two healthy living situations, with a spanking woman leading me in both of them! The first part of my marriage was an unhealthy power struggle. As soon as my wife took up the hairbrush and the bath brush and claimed maternal (female) authority, things changed for the better!
DeleteKOJ
I wouldn't say the first decade or so of my marriage was "unhealthy," but it certainly wasn't what it could and should have been, perhaps for her even more so than for me.
DeleteI feel spanking children is wrong, and adults should never hit kids. I never spanked my own kids, and they turned out great. My parents sent me to a Baptist elementary school, though they were not at all religious themselves. It was an overall a terrable experience, traumatizing me and giving me nightmeres for years about burning in hell, etc. They used spanking a lot, and in 1st grade I sexualized it, which gave me a lifelong spanking fetish. It also enlightened me about the horrable reality of religion, leading me to become an outspoken atheist. Fortunately, after 3 years of me asking questions, they finally kicked me out. I didn't really get to actually experience and enjoy consensual adult spanking until pretty late in life, but better late than never. Praise Jesus!
ReplyDeleteNorton, don't be shy - tell us how you really feel! :-)
DeleteI am a white Canadian and my wife is a white immigrant from France. I am nominally Protestant and my wife is nominally Catholic, but we aren’t practicing Christians. I don’t think spanking was any longer a universal form of discipline in my community when I was a child, but it wasn’t yet rare either. Spankings in my family were given by both my mother and my father, but a spanking from my father was much more serious. I had a large extended family, and I was aware that all my cousins were also spanked. For some reason I eroticized the embarrassment of spankings at a young age. My wife says she was occasionally spanked, but she never eroticized spanking. We never spanked our own children.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that adult domestic discipline and spanking fetishes seem to be overwhelming a white people’s thing, judging from spanking porn. It is possible that the white demographic bias in spanking porn doesn’t reflect the reality, as you pointed out, Dan, but that would surprise me because I would expect the production of porn to be driven by demand. If you look at F/M spanking videos in particular, middle aged white men seem to be the main consumers. If it is true that corporal punishment of children is more common in non-white families, as the polling data you cite suggests, it is a surprising that adult DD appears to be a white people thing. I have always assumed that my spanking fetish is grounded in my childhood experience, but maybe that is too simplistic. On the other hand, the spanking implements I fetishize are definitely based on my childhood experience. I am turned on by hairbrushes, wooden spoons, paddles, straps, and belts, which were common implements where I grew up. Images of caning, on the other hand, do nothing for me because I have no childhood or adolescent associations with canes. Lots of British men, on the other hand, seem to fetishize the cane, presumably because that used to be a form of school discipline in the UK. I have recently developed a bit of a thing for the “martinet” (a flogger with a wooden handle and multiple leather strips). I always used to associate the martinet with the dominatrix aesthetic, which does nothing for me, but after learning from my wife that the martinet was the standard spanking implement in France, I have warmed to it.
GH
Thanks, GH. It's definitely a complex thing, and you make a good point that while artist bias could be at play, at least for video porn one would expect there to be some relation to market demand. FYI, Pornhub publishes a report annually on things like their top searches and most watched genres, by country. The analysis goes pretty deep on the top categories. But, spanking was nowhere near a top category, so it got pretty cursory treatment.
DeleteRegarding how we may come to fetishize certain implements, that too seems very complicated. I did not have an early spanking fetish, but there does seem to be some correlation between how common certain implements were when I was a kid and what gets my attention today. But, the correlation isn't 1:1. The most common panking implements when I was growing up were probably paddles at school and belts at home. And, those implements do tend to bring up an emotional response in me. Same with straps.s But, so do those iconic ebony hairbrushes, and I don't think those were ever a thing in any of the communities I grew up in. Like you, canes don't do much for me, nor do martinets or other implements that weren't really a thing for discipline here in the U.S.
Interesting. I had very little first-hand experience of corporal punishment as a child, only what I head, read, and saw in books, stories, and media. I don't fetishize any particular implement. What DOES get me going is the overall situation of being authentically, strictly, but lovingly punished, ideally culminating in a spanking of one sort or another.
DeleteAs far sensation goes, J generally uses her hand when she's spanking me for fun/foreplay, a hairbrush for mild correction, and either the cane or the rubber strap for serious punishment (often delivered post-orgasm to de-sexualize the experience. The hand spankings evoke a completely different response in me, not so much because of the different sensation (thought they certainly hurt less!), but because of the playfulness of the delivery.
K wrote : “What DOES get me going is the overall situation of being authentically, strictly, but lovingly punished, ideally culminating in a spanking of one sort or another.”
DeleteYes! Me too! Exactly that.
K wrote: “As far sensation goes, J generally uses her hand when she's spanking me for fun/foreplay, a hairbrush for mild correction, and either the cane or the rubber strap for serious punishment (often delivered post-orgasm to de-sexualize the experience. The hand spankings evoke a completely different response in me, not so much because of the different sensation (thought they certainly hurt less!), but because of the playfulness of the delivery.”
I am seriously jealous, K. My wife never spanks we as foreplay, but only as punishment. She also never uses her hand because she says that hurts her hand more than it hurts my bum. I shouldn’t complain. I asked for DD, and DD is what I get. But I do fantasize about hand spankings sometimes because I think that must feel wonderfully intimate.
I am not jealous that your wife uses a cane or rubber strap for serious punishment. I would hate that. A leather belt is bad enough!
GH
GH, when I read your sentence, "I am seriously jealous," the first thought that jumped into my head was "Surely he isn't talking about the rubber strap." For reasons I don't quite get, Anne has never been able to make a cane really hurt. But, the rubber straps were so over-the-top painful that I threw them away.
DeleteK wrote: “a hairbrush for mild correction, and either the cane or the rubber strap for serious punishment (often delivered post-orgasm to de-sexualize the experience.”
DeleteWhat sort of behavior earns you a post-orgasm spanking with a rubber strap? Are you restrained for it? I am asking because I can’t imagine how much that would hurt.
I have been spanked with a rubber strap just twice, and my wife is not liable to use it again. And I have received very few post-orgasm spankings, and they were awful –really the ultimate spanking punishment –and all of them were delivered with a hairbrush (sauna style)
I admire you for accepting and getting through that level of punishment, but I shudder to think what the experience would be like and hope I never find out
Alan
Alan, same here.
DeleteAlan and Dan, same here! I don’t think I could take a harsh post orgasm punishment like that. I would invoke the safe word after 10 seconds…if we had a safe word. My wife thinks it’s silly to have a safe word for a real spanking, but luckily for me, she has never punished me more harshly than I could bear.
DeleteGH
No safeword for us either.
DeleteJ has the attitude, which she made clear when we agreed to this, that punishment should be just that, and should be something I truly seek to avoid. And it sure is! It's rare - maybe once a year? - and reserved for serious, deliberate breaches of our relationship, such as lying. It's never casual or routine, and always hurts like hell, but I see it as basically a preferable alternative to ending or altering the nature of our relationship. This is not the same has the (painful, but not nearly as severe, spankings she'll give me with a strap or hairbrush for less serious, more day-to-day offenses, and DEFINITELY not sexy (though the fact that she has the confidence and authority to do that is SUPREMELY sexy to me, just not in the moment).
DeleteIt's only bearable because I trust that she won't harm me. But it sure feels terrible, beyond anything I'd voluntarily subject myself to or ask for.
Likewise, no safe word. TG
DeleteLong time lurker, very infrequent poster.
ReplyDeleteSchool was definitely a huge contributor. In first grade, I got caught up a group that was throwing dirt clods up into a tree and one of them hit a little girl. We were taken to the principal’s office, he wasn’t there, but we were threatened with the bullwhip he had framed on the wall across from his desk. Don’t want to say I was “scared straight” but was never sent to “the office” again, ever.
I was spanked as a child, usually by mom, occasionally had to cut a switch, but honestly none of my spankings were more than “shocks”.
However, 7th grade first period was my first year of Jr High, I was confronted with the prospect of 1st period study hall. It seemed an awful prospect to me so I volunteered to be a runner for “the office”. Well, first period racked up an inordinate number of tardies. And the penalty for excess tar dies was 3 swats. Needless to say, I heard fellow classmates receive swats almost daily. My spanko creds we’re firmly established.
I get spanked now when I ask but long for imposed discipline by my wonderful wife of 37 years. She won’t yet do discipline, que lastima.
I grew up in Texas, it is generally “accepted” whether true or not that “African American” communities are much more likely to use corporal punishment on kids. If you doubt that read up on Adrian Peterson who was taken to court for switching his 4 year old…something I suspect none of us could ever countenance.
3pops
Thanks, 3pops. I suspect schools did play a major role in people developing spanking fetishes later in life. I don't think I was actually every paddled at school, though I was threatened with it multiple times and even sent to the office for what I assumed would be a paddling, but I somehow got out of it.
DeleteThe funny thing about your Texas observation is that the white parents there sure as hell weren't shy about corporal punishment when I a kid.
I agree that corporal punishment experiences in school had some influence on spanking desires as an adult.
ReplyDeleteI went to school in the UK were I was exposed to corporal punishment pretty much daily .
It was reserved primarily for the boys and girls were exempt.
We would get the cane or slipper / plimsole on our backsides in front of the entire class.
Interestingly many of those memories remain after all these years and there are two aspects that stand out.
First , the girls in our class got to witness our punishment and admittedly enjoyed it.
They loved seeing boys bend over and touch their toes so our trousers pulled tight against our bottom.
The second was that the punishment was often administered by a female teacher most of whom were quite young and attractive to us teenage boys.
I still recall one slippering I received from a young female teacher who most of us swooned over.
She used to sit on top of her desk to talk to the class and would cross her legs to give us a teasing glimpse of stocking top occasionally ( another sight I love in adulthood!).
She made it clear to us in her class addresses that she would use the slipper and the boys would receive it on our 'beamends' ( a curious nautical term I have never heard anywhere else).
She caught me talking in class and ordered me into a small store room at the front of the class.
The door was left open so the class heard everything.
I remember seeing the large size 14 plimsole sitting on the table but was still not worried.
She ordered me to go to the back of the room ,bend over and touch my toes .
As the slipper was located about 8 foot away , she obviously took a running swing and delivered it hard.
I remember the loud noise and it really stung but she quickly applied 3 more.
When I got up my butt was numb and it really started to hurt when I walked back to my seat and every step was painful .
You had to walk past all those smirking girls to your seat.
I recall being surprised that it hurt really bad when I sat at my desk.
It was agony to sit for the rest of the class and I managed to find relief by sliding back on my seat so I was sitting on my thighs and not my butt.
I still recall that incident with fondness and not resentment.
By the end of the term pretty much every boy in our class had paid a visit to that store room for the slipper and I got to watch their reaction with interest.
Some aspects of that slippering still really hit a nerve with me when being spanked now , especially if my wife orders me to 'bend over!',or the satisfied grin on her face after spanking me .
Even though it hurt like hell , I recall it as a good memory.
Wow, Glenmore, that is mind blowing to me! I witnessed a couple of boys being spanked by women teachers in primary school, and that made a deep impression on me. But the idea of being spanked by a woman teacher in front of female classmates AS AN ADOLESCENT boggles my mind!
DeleteAlso, I have never taken stories about being spanked with slippers very seriously, both because that was outside my own childhood experience and because I have always imagined that a slipper wouldn’t hurt very much. So it is interesting to hear from you that a slippering can be painful.
GH
The plimsoles they used were huge , well used , mostly flexible rubber with a bit of a canvass top.
DeleteI was really surprised how hard it was and that it would hurt to sit after only 4 whacks.
She obviously had a lot of practice and I often wondered if she had a boyfriend or husband at home to polish her technique!
Being spanked in front of the class was one of the few school spanking protocols that was *not* a thing where I grew up. The closest thing to it might have being taken out into the hall.
DeleteThe spankings from my
ReplyDeletemother definitely set the template for my marital DD. Both were:
1. Over her knee.
2. With a household implement.
3. Hard enough to be considered real punishment.
4. Including scolding.
5. Not arousing for me.
The main difference is that my mother stopped spanking my bare bottom just before puberty, at about 12, while my wife always spanked bare bottom. (My mother spanked my clothed bottom until about 16).
Of course it was me who described Mother's spankings to my wife, and my wife chose to adopt the same methods. We both eventually realized that I needed "maternal authority," which I had experienced throughout my childhood in a single-parent family.
There was paddling of boys in the schools I attended. I did everything I could to avoid it and did not find it at all titillating. But it did contribute to the seemingly commonplace idea that males got punished physically. We expected it -- at school and at home.
KOJ
My male friends and cousins, almost without exception, were punished physically by mom or dad or both. Females getting spanked was a rare exception -- that us guys did find fascinating!
DeleteKOJ
Where I grew up, females probably got spanked less than males, but it definitely happened and was not at all uncommon.
DeleteI think my brother and I got spanked way more than our sisters did. Maybe that is simply because boys tend to be more unruly than girls, so there was a perception that boys needed more discipline. Corporal punishment in schools (mostly hand strapping) seemed to be almost exclusively given to boys. In fact, I don’t recall a single case of any girl in my classes getting the strap, whereas boys occasionally did. It seemed that girls didn’t behave in the ways boys sometimes got punished for. Something that seemed unfair to me in our family, and something that may have contributed to my kink, was that there didn’t seem to be as much concern for the “modesty” of boys when we got spanked. I don’t think my parents understood how embarrassing that was to me or considered the risk that I might eroticize embarrassment.
DeleteGH
I was certainly strapped on my hand and hand spanked on the back of the legs in front of the whole class at age 12. Two separate events. Likewise at my school, I don't remember girls spanked. It was embarassing at the time but not for long - it happened to all the boys.
DeleteGH wrote: “In fact, I don’t recall a single case of any girl in my classes getting the strap, whereas boys occasionally did…”
DeleteThat was something common growing up ( girls receiving corporal punishment rarely or never) and candidly something I resented, seeing what some girls did get away with.
But, there is some irony in this because at least one line of thought about what produces female tops is the experience of seeing, hearing, or otherwise being exposed to a troublesome male (to them) spanked and subdued).
As the thinking goes, it has to be a male that the female had had some level of conflict or felt threatened or uncomfortable by. This idea has some resonance as we know early imprinting can shape personality.
But I believe the genetic predisposition must be there before such an experience would have lasting effects. But the theory is (if it can be called a theory) girls who grow up harassed by their brothers or other males but then observe the powerful effect of spanking on those same brothers –can grow up to be disciplinarians.
It would be an interesting question to research. But since spanking is in sharp decline as a parental discipline ( and should be), that dynamic, if there is one, would be well on its way to oblivion.
Alan
I hadn't heard that theory, but it's an interesting one. As you may recall, Danielle talked a few times about how she had a younger she thought was a brat and how resentment of him fueled some of her later dominance. It's not quite the same thing you're talking about, i.e. seeing a male you're threatened or antagonized by get punished, but it's similar.
DeleteMy mother did her best to reinforce that theory. She would tell my sisters (who got grounded but seldom spanked), "Boys respond well to corporal punishment; girls not so much." This was usually right after they had heard or even seen her spanking me, and added greatly to my embarrassment.
DeleteI wish I knew if either sister became a spanker, and I have tried to study their dynamic with their husbands -- but I can't tell.
KOJ
KOJ,
DeleteWas either of your sisters aware that your wife spanked you?
Alan
That is an interesting theory about the possible effect on girls of witnessing brothers being spanked. Having sisters hearing, or even seeing, me get spanked sure had an effect on me, and I have sometimes wondered whether it had any effect on them. I wouldn’t say there was major conflict between my brother and me and our three sisters, but there was definitely some strong sibling rivalry because we were closely bunched together in age. I always imagined my sisters enjoying schadenfreude when I got spanked, which heightened the embarrassment. They also had a kind of derivative power because if my brother and I ever did anything spankworthy, they could threaten to tell on us. I can still hear those words, “I’m telling.” Maybe that’s one reason I am so sensitive to the power dynamic of spanking: early sibling rivalry with sisters who sometimes had power to get me spanked. They also had power to extend the embarrassment of being spanked by blabbing about it to neighbourhood kids, especially their girlfriends.
DeleteI have no idea whether any of my sisters have been spankers in their relationships, but two of my sisters have dominant personalities of the take-shit-from-nobody type. Also, a few years ago, my sisters and I had a get together and my wife wasn’t present. We went out to lunch, then I accompanied my sisters through a trendy little shopping area with a bunch of small novelty shops. In one of the shops we saw a pair of high leather boots that could only be described as dominatrix boots. One of my sisters picked them up and said to me, “Hey, you should buy these for Renée [my wife]”. My sisters all thought that was hilarious. I laughed too and said “Very funny”, but I think I probably blushed because of the consciousness that my wife does actually spank me. I have sometimes wondered whether my sister made that joke because she suspects that I still get spanked. Come to think of it, last time I saw my sisters without my wife being present, we had some unhealthy fast food, and when I hesitated whether to get the large size fries, one of my sisters teased, “Don’t worry, we won’t tell Renée.” (Renée would, in fact, not have approved!) That was like a flashback to their power to “tell” when we were kids.
GH
"They also had a kind of derivative power because if my brother and I ever did anything spankworthy, they could threaten to tell on us. I can still hear those words, “I’m telling.” Maybe that’s one reason I am so sensitive to the power dynamic of spanking: early sibling rivalry with sisters who sometimes had power to get me spanked. They also had power to extend the embarrassment of being spanked by blabbing about it to neighbourhood kids, especially their girlfriends."
DeleteThose are really interesting observations. I've never really thought about how much power parents might inadvertently bestow on girls by allowing them to rat out their brothers. I do seem to recall growing up, however, that there were some parents who would spank for "tattling."
Hey Dan, T here. I fell victim to the google sign in on your page and just didn’t get around to signing up using an outside email. We had a very busy first part of the year with travel and then my wife and I got sick for around a month. I was sick with the flu for two week and then she became sick just there after. I hate google by the way. As for this weeks topic, it hits home and is the main reason I have the fetish. I grew up in a strict Baptist household where spankings were the main form of discipline. I was paddled at school for what I felt was nonsense. Laziness and a lack of focus earned a paddling. I was probably paddled once or twice a month up till eighth grade. My worst paddling was by a teacher filling in for the principal. Six swats on gym shorts that left me breathless. I agree with Norton that religion was the excuse to beat kids. We chose not to spank.I never cried at school but the bare bottom spankings at home were a different story. I posted before, my last spanking was at around 13. I stole a CD from a store and management stopped me. My Mother arrived and explained to the manager not to worry, I wouldn’t be able to sit for a week. She used that paddle on my bare bottom for a long time and it was memorable. I never took anything again. As for black families and spanking. A black family moved in across the street from me.
ReplyDeleteThey went to a different church but the same school. The kids were younger than I was. The children’s Mother was a no nonsense women. She spanked those kids with authority. She never even bothered to close the windows. I overheard many spanking to their children . As I turned 16, I definitely wished it was me in her place and that fed my fetish. The Father never spanked and left that to the Mother. I knew another black family in the church and observed a spanking at church to the youngest son. We were at an after church function, and the Mother had just finished spanking their son for not listening and helping out. He was flushed as they left the women’s bathroom.
As for DD, we have been in a lull of late. I think with being sick and busy, we have fallen out of the loop. I wish this wasn’t the case. My last spanking was at the end of January. I should have been beaten in Feb for something that I definitely deserved but my wife was sick.
T
T, sorry about the sign-in problem. Also, sorry about the flu. I had a full-blown case of the real flu a few years ago, and it was no joke. Took me a good month to get fully back on my feet.
DeleteYour comment about being spanked *at* church reminded me that it was pretty prevalent where I initially grew up. Many churches had "cry rooms" where you were supposed to take very young kids making noise, but they also doubled as a place to go for a quick swat or two. Same with the bathrooms.
We are definitely in a lull here, but all related to Anne's hand injury, which isn't resolving as fast as hoped.
Dan, we had a “cry” room in church as well that was used for spanking. It was somewhat sound proof with a window and a speaker that Mothers could use. I witnessed a few spankings in that room. Like the others, my fantasies with objects are the same as growing up. My wife uses a thick leather strap, a paddle bought in Vermont that still makes me blush. It was purchased in a woodwork store, and the dreaded wooden spoon. I work with a black man who is a great guy and hard worker. We were in a round group casually discussing growing up. He grew up getting switched by his Mother and his wife was strapped by her Father. They both refuse to spank their children. He states, there is no way I should be teaching my kids about violence by beating them. He said I could never lay a hand on my son or daughter. As far as school goes, obviously the boys were paddled much more than the girls. The female secretary gave the girls the paddling in our school. I spent a considerable amount of time at my best friends house growing up. I was spanked by his Mom and Dad only once. My Mom gave permission. His sister was spanked quite often as she was rebellious and was very stubborn. Dan, I was actually thinking about seeing a disciplinarian again. There is one in my state. We are in a bit of a lull and I think it’s just being sick and life getting in the way. I have zero desires for erotic spanking. My wife and I did that quite some time ago and although fun and highly erotic, I’ve grown beyond that. I was thinking about seeing her once every two or three months. I almost saw her prior to Covid and the world shut down. She is older and passes easily for a Mom or Grandmother type. This would help me not be turned on so to speak. My only concern has been discretion. I know seeing one does not work for some, but I did see one about 20 years ago who was phenomenal. As far as Christian DD goes, I highly doubt there are that many women out there that practice this. I agree that it would be such a slippery slope as fare as consensual goes. I also believe that the reason FM is not that prevalent is what is taught in the church. The wife is taught the husband is the leader. I know growing up in our church, the man had the final word and ran the family. This was taught right from the pulpit. I would of been floored to hear about FM DD growing up or learning about it as I got older. This would of never passed in the church I grew up in. I believe this goes back to my fascination with FM discipline. I was spanked by Mom at home, the principal at school, but I would never allow a male to discipline me now. This is not in my makeup and would never happen. I observed so many other female male spankings growing up.
DeleteT
I grew up in a mainstream Protestant church. Members of the congregation were pretty conservative (including my parents), but certainly no fire and brimstone.
ReplyDeleteWe were a middle class family, but I always felt like my mom aspired for more than that. There was a distinct separation of duties between my parents. My dad worked long hours and traveled to make a pretty good living. My mother took care of everything at home, including disciplining my older sister and me. Mom was pretty demanding, but I didn't think I was spanked unfairly and I think my sister would say the same about her punishments.
I'm not sure if I was spanked more often than other kids or at a more advanced age. I thought I was at the time, but you never really know what happens in other homes.
Kevin
ReplyDelete"We were a middle class family, but I always felt like my mom aspired for more than that." The same was true of my mother, and it may be why I've always had some of that "striver" mentality that made me successful at work but also made me want both accountability and externally applied motivation.
It's a good point that we never really know what happens in other homes, and I assume that is doubly true when it comes to boys being honest about parental discipline.
I just want to be a 50s wife. Take care of my husband and home, make babies, and get spanked when I'm naughty. I like women being the fairer and weaker sex, put on a pedestal and treated like a princess, but under her king's authority. I don't need or want to be the leader. Sorry, guys! Retro!
ReplyDeleteCynthia Ellen
Regarding influences, I think I was born craving spanking. As a little girl, when we played house or doctor, I always wanted to be spanked. I love those pictures of bending over a stuffed bear's lap. That was me.
DeleteWe were occasionally spanked as kids but that wasn't it for me. I never fantasized about being spanked by parents. It was a male teacher, doctor, coach, friend, uncle, the deliveryman ... just about every older male that was not my dad. It was always for being naughty ... but very arousing too once I reached puberty.
I don't know if there really is a spanking gene, but if there is I have it. It's in my jeans, lol.
Cynthia Ellen
Nothing to apologize for, Cynthia Ellen. If I was a woman, I would probably want the same thing. ;-)
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