“A lot of people are afraid to say what they want. That’s why they don’t get what they want.” – Madonna
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline or Female Led Relationship.
I hope you had a good week. Mine was pretty uneventful, apart from the situation I’ll set out below. In most ways, it's been a good couple of weeks. Pared way back on alcohol. Made it to the gym several times. My diet was mostly good, though my efforts to get more fruits and vegetables into my diet is always a challenge.
The weather has also been a tease. Warming to an almost pleasant degree one day; snowing the next. I'm kind of tired of it and ready for a real Spring.
Well, last week’s topic kind of . . . flopped . . . didn’t it? That does happen sometimes, of course. Though, it’s also sometimes hard for me to tell whether it flopped because people didn’t feel like engaging with the topic or they felt no personal connection to it, or because it was just one of those times when people were busy with other things. In any event, onward.
I got an email from someone earlier this week asking me about scolding. They acknowledged having a bit of a fetish around wanting to be scolded or lectured but also acknowledged having an anti-authoritarian personality and not taking criticism very well.
I totally get that, and it’s a timely statement reflecting how the last few months of Anne’s increasing focus on the FLR and DD aspects of our relationship has been a challenge. I’ve related a few times here about a couple of disciplinary sessions late last year that followed arguments and how it led to resentment before I eventually had an epiphany along the lines of me actually being in the wrong. In both cases, it wasn’t really the spanking that caused my ongoing mental angst. It was the lecturing and scolding.
As I also reported, however, while it took a few weeks for me to get over it the first time it happened, the second time the resentment lasted only a few days.
This weekend, we had another, albeit much more minor, incident. We went out to dinner with one of the kids and her significant other. From my perspective, everything went well. No excessive drinking. No overbearing behavior on my part.
So, I was a little surprised that the next day, as I was leaving for the gym, she told me “We need to talk . . .” She then gave me a lecture about spending too much time looking at my phone at dinner. I didn’t agree with her fully, and I pointed out that when it is just the too of us together, she constantly has her head buried in her gadgets (which she didn’t own up to, even though it’s 100% true).
Unlike the previous two or three incidents, this time I didn’t get very worked up about it and, honestly, within a few minutes I was acknowledging to myself that she was basically right. So, what was different this time? Three things:
- First, this time I think there was less room for diverging interpretations. While I may believe (rightly) that she’s been guilty of the same thing on other occasions, I couldn’t really contest that I’d done what she said I had done. I also didn’t disagree about whether it was inappropriate. So, I (mostly) agreed with both her interpretation of the facts and her judgment that the behavior had been inappropriate.
- Second, unlike the other incidents, this didn’t involve anything that struck me deeply or personally. It wasn’t something touching on any significant identity or relationship issue. It was really about bad manners, and she was simply calling me out for them.
- Third, her tone was more business-like this time. She definitely was letting me know that she didn’t like the behavior and expected it not to happen again, but it wasn’t emotional or biting.
I don’t know whether those three are a prescription for an effective scolding, but it seems that way to me as I write this a week later.
It was not, by the way, followed by a spanking or other punishment. But, I would have understood completely had she taken that next step and ordered one. In fact, it probably should have happened in light of the “get a scolding, get a spanking” resolution we talked about at the beginning of the year.
While I do think the way she handled things this time was just about perfect, I do wonder whether it would “scratch the itch” for husbands who want (or think they want) stronger scolding and lecturing and generally more verbal dominance. There are certainly many of them out there. When I ran a poll several years ago on what men wanted “more” or “less” of, the results were:
Spankings were more severe 76
Spankings were less severe 5
Spankings were more frequent 91
Spankings were less frequent 3
My partner would be more verbally strict 76
My partner would be less verbally strict 0
My partner would be more openly dominant 67
My partner would be less openly dominant 1
The email from a reader and the incident with Anne got me thinking more about lecturing and scolding. I’m not sure why so many of us who are into discipline are also into verbal strictness, even if we don’t always consider ourselves to be in an FLR. It may even be “a thing” among those who are not necessarily into DD, if cultural references are an indication.
For example, there is a great scene in the Netflix series The Crown that has a very direct reference to the power of being scolded by a woman. It’s in Season 2. Winston Churchill’s health is failing, but he and some of his cabinet ministers try to hide it from the young Queen Elizabeth. When she learns of their deception, she is upset about its implications for their views of her leadership. She discusses it with her tutor, a wizened professor who advises her that she must assert her authority. He recommends bringing them in for "a good dressing down." Doubtful, she asks why men of such power and distinction would stand for it if she were to do so. Her tutor observes, "Because they're English, male, and upper class. A good dressing down from nanny is what they want most in life." She does as he advises, bringing the offenders in for a sound scolding. After it is over and they have been dismissed, she encounters her husband in their quarters. Not knowing what she has just done, he observes that she looks "taller." Clearly sensing that something has changed, he gets turned on and initiates sex on the spot.
While it may be fodder for FLR fantasies, my recent encounters with real scoldings and lectures make me believe they may be where the rubber meets the road when it comes to the sometimes significant gap between fantasy and reality. Scoldings are just different from spankings in important respects.
First, particularly with respect to the first two that were connected to more significant arguments, I found that real scoldings were harder to take and stuck with me longer than spankings alone. I talked to Aunt Kay’s husband about it a little. His response was something to the effect of, “Let’s face it. A real scolding is hard to take. It just is.” He’s clearly right about that, though I had to fully experience it a couple of times to really understand it.
Second, scoldings may be a bit more unilateral in one respect than are spankings. We’ve talked here many times about how spankings effectively “clear the air,” allowing the couple to move on quickly. Scoldings and lectures don’t necessarily precede a spanking, however. There was no spanking following up on Anne’s most recent lecture. As I said I got over this one very quickly, but I think a more serious scolding might allow her to vent and purge herself of her annoyance or anger, but it may leave him to confront his conscience without the benefit of a sore bottom leading to that feeling that the slate has been fully wiped clean.
Third, I personally feel scolding can have a maternal vibe that exceeds what I get with spankings or spankings alone. Or, at least they can. The two that bred resentment for me were closely tied to marital arguments, and the scoldings definitely reflected that dynamic. This latest time, however, it felt more like getting a lecture from a fed-up mother.
Fourth, for those who have a spanking fetish or for whom spankings have a strong erotic component, I suspect scolding may be harder to take than a spanking because that same erotic energy may not be there to “cushion the blow” to the ego. Of course, that may not be much of an issue if scoldings always precede a spanking.
Finally, I suspect—though I do not know for sure—that scolding and lecturing may be even more empowering for the wives than spanking. So many of us start in these relationships with her spanking mostly as accommodation of his requests to explore it, often to correct things that he sees as an issue that may not be that important to her. Vocalizing your displeasure seems more assertive to me and potentially more personally liberating and empowering. Let’s face it, most of us in this society are conditioned not to communicate strongly and directly about what we expect from others or to let them know in no uncertain terms when they have let us down. I suspect that for the wives, it must be a virtuous circle in which scolding leads to feelings of real empowerment, and the feelings of empowerment lead to an increased willingness to scold and give direction.
Is strong lecturing or scolding part of your DD or FLR relationship? Do you want it to be? Is a lecture always or almost always followed by a spanking? Does she ever lecture or scold after a spanking?
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteSerious, somewhat emotional scoldings are probably essential for me to fully experience discipline and punishment. I believe it was Jillian Keenan who termed spanking the verbal kink. It is surely that since what happens between the ears is central to the entire physical, mental, and psychological experience. It also to me underscores my wife’s authority and the power she has in our DD relationship. Spanking alone can sort of/kind of get you there in the right environment, but a good firm scolding is all but guaranteed to do it -and that is especially the case if the scolding is accompanied by any of the familiar rituals that usually lead to a spanking, like grabbing my ear, swatting my bottom, actually taking down my pants or just suggesting a spanking is or might be coming. Ideally, scolding and spanking go together, but a scolding alone can have a huge impact, as you have related in your topic introduction. I guess that Anne didn’t think your behavior merited a spanking and felt the scolding was enough. We have experienced that often enough when my wife either just issues a warning or sees it as a minor issue that doesn’t require her to spank. But if she had delivered the scolding Anne did, I would be on clear notice that “IF” it happened again, I would be spanked. For me scolding leading up to a spanking or during a spanking probably has the most impact. I know her scorching scoldings make it much easier to accept a spanking and surrender to it. And sometimes, I have been eager to start the spanking to end the scolding. With us, I think my wife has gradually used more scolding and warning or threats to spank in lieu of actual spanking. And in truth, she doesn’t need to spank as often as once because she has both established her authority and repeatedly shown her willingness to use it. Unless you need spanking regularly or frequently, that is a good place for a DD couple to be where her authority is well established, and a threat or good scolding can often stop a husband from going off the rails (and women do recognize we are going off the rails often before we have a clue. So to avoid digressing further, in a DD relationship, spanking is necessary but not always sufficient -while scolding is usually necessary and often sufficient.
Alan
"Unless you need spanking regularly or frequently, that is a good place for a DD couple to be where her authority is well established, and a threat or good scolding can often stop a husband from going off the rails (and women do recognize we are going off the rails often before we have a clue. So to avoid digressing further, in a DD relationship, spanking is necessary but not always sufficient -while scolding is usually necessary and often sufficient." Great way to put it.
DeleteYour description of taking physical control right before a spanking-- "grabbing my ear, swatting my bottom"--gives me mixed feelings. On the one hand, those very firm demonstrations of authority and a ramp up to what is about to happen, are powerful. But, on the other hand, so does the calmer, business-like approach. I really am on the fence as to which is more effective or whether there is a right time for each.
Dan wrote: “Your description of taking physical control right before a spanking-- "grabbing my ear, swatting my bottom"--gives me mixed feelings. On the one hand, those very firm demonstrations of authority and a ramp-up to what is about to happen are powerful. But, on the other hand, so does the calmer, business-like approach. I really am on the fence as to which is more effective ….”
DeleteThis must be the most idiosyncratic aspect of the pre-spanking ritual. My reality is that some of those actions mentioned and several others are “hot buttons” to me, highly sexual but also having a major effect on my attitude and behavior at that point. The “chin hold,” which I remember Danielle mentioning, will completely end any defiance or disobedience and puts her fully in control. She knows all this because I have told her and has seen my reaction many times. She likes that, and it is an intense turn-on for me and an almost instant submission to her authority.
I have also experienced the “calmer business-like approach,” some with my wife and much more with my former G.F. It certainly works, too but lacks the intense emotional and mental experience that accompanies the use of the hot-button words and actions. The former makes me much easier to manage leading up to a spanking, while the latter feels more mechanical.
But I also recognize my wife is indulging me by using these techniques ( and she doesn’t always use them). And I recognize we are all unique in how we react to being spanked and the events leading up to it. I suspect many men in F/M relationships have very different hot buttons or maybe no hot buttons. For sure, the things that work for one couple may not work at all with another. I know that telling her what hot buttons were for me was a form of topping from the bottom. But frankly, I think information like that falls better under the category of communication. I know she has never complained about it, and neither have I
Alan
In case it wasn't clear, by "mixed feelings" I definitely didn't mean I feel like there's anything wrong with those "hot buttons." What I meant was, I find something about them very attractive even though Anne use them, but I have a hard time reconciling it in my head as to why I do find those attractive while also being attracted to the almost polar opposite "business-like" approach. And, I definitely don't see how anyone could characterize identifying those "hot buttons" to your wife as topping from the bottom.
DeleteI too feel that those little things, whether it be her grabbing you by your ear, can be incredibly powerful in quickly establishing the proper frame of mind. Especially since breaking through emotional barriers to allow true communication and understanding to happen is one of the goals. My wife doesn't do much with this, but the few times she has, it has been pretty effective.
DeleteTelling your wife about whatever "hot buttons" you might have doesn't feel like topping from the bottom to me. You are merely telling her useful information about how you are wired, and ultimately, she can use that provided information to achieve her purposes. It only becomes topping from the bottom (I really hate that term on multiple levels) when you try to manipulate her to push those buttons, not when you merely tell her that the buttons exist.
-ZM
"It only becomes topping from the bottom (I really hate that term on multiple levels) when you try to manipulate her to push those buttons, not when you merely tell her that the buttons exist." Agreed, on bot the substance and that term.
DeleteScolding was a huge part of our DD. I noticed the difference early in your story. My wife would not have waited until the next day to address me being on my phone. She would have done it right then, right in front of my daughter and her spouse. Depending on her level of irritation, she might have given me a nonverbal warning with a telling look and a nod to my phone. Or she might have said, "Put your phone away." Or she might have said, "You're being rude. Put your phone away immediately if you know what's good for you!"
ReplyDeleteA spanking would surely follow when we got home.
She almost always scolded prior to a spanking. She wanted to be sure that I understood my misbehavior. She wanted to hear me promise to do better next time. Even if I did so during the scolding, she would make me promise again during the spanking. This was her way of making sure I got the message.
Her scoldings often happened with me standing in front of her as she was seated in the chair where she was going to spank me, with my pants and underpants around my ankles, and her holding the hairbrush. I was required to make eye contact during these scoldings. It was incredibly embarrassing (and not arousing, at least not to me).
She considered it part of our punishment ritual. She did not order me over her knee until she was sure I was properly "dressed down."
I believe these scoldings definitely enhanced the effectiveness of the spanking. And yes, they were very maternal .. which I eventually realized was what I needed and wanted.
KOJ
I got scoldings of one or two sentences in front of others many times. A full scolding -- which could last up to 10 minutes -- was reserved (thankfully) for private.
DeleteKOJ
And yes, I agree that seeing me accept her scolding was empowering for her. But spanking was more so. She would tell me, "It feels so good to have a guy so much bigger than me obey me and accept painful punishment with no argument whatsoever. There is something amazing in the animal kingdom when the physically weaker animal has physical power over the physically stronger."
DeleteKOJ
"Her scoldings often happened with me standing in front of her as she was seated in the chair where she was going to spank me, with my pants and underpants around my ankles, and her holding the hairbrush. I was required to make eye contact during these scoldings. It was incredibly embarrassing (and not arousing, at least not to me)."
DeleteIt doesn't happen this way with us, but I do think it could actually a much more powerful posture than standing eye-to-eye. I think it emphasizes in a physical way that the spanking is just about to happen, and that to me is powerful.
"And yes, I agree that seeing me accept her scolding was empowering for her. But spanking was more so. She would tell me, "It feels so good to have a guy so much bigger than me obey me and accept painful punishment with no argument whatsoever."
DeleteIt's sort of the same way with us, though Anne parses it a little more finely. She's said that the part that is the most powerful for her is telling me to get ready for the spanking, including her ordering me to get into whatever position she wants and then me doing it. She has said she enjoys that part even more than the spanking itself, and that it is watching me comply with an order I don't want to obey that gives her a thrill.
KOJ writes: “My wife would not have waited until the next day to address me being on my phone.”
DeleteI am somewhat ambivalent about the level of strictness you experienced. On the one hand, I like the latitude I am often given (not always given) to get it together by a warning or a not-so-subtle threat like “Do you need a spanking? That does give me a chance to develop or exercise some self-discipline in the area she is addressing –and over the years, it has definitely led to better and permanently improving behavior from me. I believe that if our DD relationship ended tomorrow, most of the behavior she has taught me with discipline would continue, albeit probably not so consistently.
But on the other hand, the strictness you experienced is appealing in many ways, if intimidating in others. You probably never had to guess what would get you in trouble with her or the consequences. If a woman wanted to find the fastest way to bring permanent behavior change, that kind of strictness would do it (at least for me)The appeal of that to me is the lack of angst or ambiguity about it. Do the deed, and your pants come down (FULL CLOSE) You will conform your behavior to her expectations faster and, in some ways, easier because there is less or no room to squeeze out of it.
But it is also intimidating because you must be walking on eggshells sometimes and always on a narrow path with little room for screw-ups. That part of it is certainly maternal, but you discovered that was what you were looking for, and your wife was comfortable with that. I recognize the maternal aspects of an F/M relationship, but neither my wife nor I wanted that exactly- but rather a relationship in which one adult exercised disciplinary authority over another in an intimate relationship. That may explain some of the apparent different degrees of strictness blog contributors posted about.
Alan
I have the same ambivalent reaction. On the one hand, something in me craves the idea of strictness and consistency and the whole maternal vibe. But, I also don't want to be infantilized or to fell like I'm always walking on eggshells. I guess my goal is something moderately stricter than where we are today.
DeleteI did not at all feel I was walking on eggshells! She made her expectations very clear. I could choose to obey them or suffer the consequences. Eggshells to me implies I am not sure what might happen. I was very sure!
DeleteKOJ
That probably is one big positive about having clear rules, as opposed to her simply reacting on the fly -- the husband can't claim he wasn't warned and, as you say, shouldn't feel like he's walking on eggshells.
DeleteI think this whole "walking on eggshells" thing is one of the major gating factors for our relationship; my wife very much wants me to feel free, and not to have to constantly worry that I will cross the line. At the same time, she does want a line to be there, and she wants to help me stay on the right side of it. Like many things in DD/FLR, it is a balancing act.
Delete-ZM
I should have added that I too struggle with that same issue, so it is not just my wife who is seeking this delicate balance. I want to be free and will always resist any attempts to limit my freedom (in any context, not only in my marriage), but at the same time I also crave the imposition of boundaries and some measure of external control. In other words, whenever there are enforced boundaries, I want freedom, but whenever I have freedom, I want boundaries.
Delete-ZM
"In other words, whenever there are enforced boundaries, I want freedom, but whenever I have freedom, I want boundaries." Exactly!
DeleteWith us, punishment (which is relatively rare, reserved for serious offenses, and always severe) is just about always preceded by a lengthy (drawn out, uncomfortable) "discussion", in which J interrogates me about my misbehavior and the reasons I should have known better. It is far more humiliating the the punishment (however painful) that inevitably follows. I feel like a kid who's been sent to the principal's office. For me, it puts me in the state of mind to accept my punishment, even though I know I'll hate it (J does NOT mess around when she feels she needs to punish me). For her, it's an opportunity to calm down make a rational decision about what's coming to me, and it reinforces her role on our relationship.
ReplyDeleteJ is a lawyer, and she knows very well how to dress me down and back me into a corner this way. But as I've mentioned previously, full-blown punishment (and "discussion") is relatively rare in our relationship.
For lesser offenses, "reminder spankings" as she calls them, she usually just tell me what I did with a tone of disapproval and ask me if I need a spanking, but it's only a rhetorical question. A "no" answer would be very foolish on my part. But there's no protracted lecture or scolding in those cases.
"For lesser offenses, "reminder spankings" as she calls them, she usually just tell me what I did with a tone of disapproval and ask me if I need a spanking, but it's only a rhetorical question. A "no" answer would be very foolish on my part." That's a really interesting process, which my wife doesn't really do. If presented with that rhetorical question, I suspect that in some cases I would, in fact, say "no." To make it an effective procedure, mine would need to do what it sounds like J does -- make me regret that somewhat dishonest "no."
Delete"For me, it puts me in the state of mind to accept my punishment, even though I know I'll hate it." Over time, I've come to see this as really important. For me, it creates a bit of a conflict between spanking immediately and letting some anticipation build. I know that for effective behavior modification, it's generally important that punishment is tied closely in time to the offense. But, I think that general principle is sometimes extracted from studies in animals and children, while we adults have more of an ability to connect offense and punishment over a longer period of time. In any event, I do think that for me, at least a few hours of anticipation does help me get in the right mindset to really accept the spanking as deserved.
I'd rather have a calm, lawyerly inquiry than what I imagine would be a repetitive traditional scolding. My wife is a silent spanker, but the rare times she's calmly brought up a substantial flaw and led me to a better understanding of myself, I found myself more accepting of her next move than usual.
DeleteHi MW. "My wife is a silent spanker . . ." Mine used to be, but that's another thing that's changed recently. She has started asking more (usually rhetorical) questions and punctuating her swats with comments during each session.
DeleteDan,
DeleteThat is a very good sign
Alan
Alan, or a very bad one, depending on one's perspective. :-)
DeleteFirstly Dan I would have thought a man with your blogging experience has long ago understood that their is no relationship between quality of post (including interest level in the subject at hand) and comment numbers. As someone who 10-15 years ago ran a blog about the greatest football (soccer) team from the UK's greatest county I know only too well that. Sometimes quality is better than quantity (and it was my experience the latter was caused by controversy). I was lucky that because I had no intention of monetising I could stick to my principles and chose my subjects on their merit, not on the crowd's pushbuttons. Your blog does exactly what it says on the tin, that is a great thing.
ReplyDeleteAs for this week's topic, in my proposal (still under consideration by Mrs GL but worryingly with precious little feedback so far) I worked on the assumption that by definition if I gave her the right to set the standards she would be pulling me up on things and so a good telling off every now and then was inevitable. I don't think I had in mind being given long and embarrassing scouldings/telling offs in a non-spanking situation but if I am giving her executive powers which include deciding when I need pulling up I should expect some. Where she would be telling me I had crossed the "unacceptable behaviours" line I'd expect some admonishment but not enough to be mentally disturbed. For me some element of respect needs to exist and so having my personality stripped bare by a balling at would seem too much I suspect. On my various (secret) use of professional disciplinarians a offer to humiliate is a red flag (some of them were very good at the commentary during role-play). Yes I do get excited when chided by Mrs GL (where I'm not arguing back) and yes if we go forward with my request I'd expect a verbal element to my trips over her knee for the misbehaving or a pre-emptive but it would still be relationship respectful. How I talk to her and our nearly grown up offspring is on my unacceptable behaviour list and as such consistency is key. Biting my tongue will be the hardest part of being in an agreed Female Authority DD situation (it isn't full FLR in my mind until it is all second nature) so the scolding elements will be a delicate big test.
Would it matter if I was scolded in front of another? Some excitement is possible in that situation but perhaps a better one is to be pulled up quickly in front of others but the "wait till I get you home/we are alone" being whispered only to me!
Cheers
GLM
"I was lucky that because I had no intention of monetising I could stick to my principles and chose my subjects on their merit, not on the crowd's pushbuttons." That does help. If I were trying to make money on the blog, I don't doubt it could have an impact on how I approach some issues, however subtly.
Delete"in my proposal (still under consideration by Mrs GL but worryingly with precious little feedback so far)" Earlier in our DD relationship, it would make me crazy when I would pour my heart into some missive to her, usually in a journal entry, and get zip for feedback or response. I've now come to accept that "Tops" for lack of a better word just tend not to obsess about this stuff as much as we do.
"For me some element of respect needs to exist and so having my personality stripped bare by a balling at would seem too much I suspect." This is kind of what I meant about the strength of a "business-like" tone. I do think a scolding can cross a line where it becomes degrading or damaging. I think that's a great point about it being a "red flag" if a Pro suggests humiliation. Though, I don't doubt that many of their clients are, in fact, into that.
The lack of response makes me nervous because even if she is minded to accept and go forward with things I'd expect she'd want clarification on aspects. To not have asked one question or even raised an issue after a week leans me to thinking she intends to say no but is holding back till the consideration period is fully over. I'm not giving up nor getting despondent but I am less confident than I was a few days ago. In a twist of fate, over the same period I have become proud of my bravery in laying it all out in the way I did, so if it turns out to be all in vain, it will be a massive disappointment but I won't get too despondent (but I may get drunk under the disguise of my birthday). We shall see how we go over the next week or so. Cheers GLM
DeleteMaybe she just hasn't finished reading/processing it yet?
DeleteMaybe and as a hope to cling to I'll take it. Mind you as we say in English football "it's the hope that kills you".
DeleteI think that's the title of a Ted Lasso episode!
DeleteGLM. The football team was obviously Watford in the county of Hertfordshire. TG
DeleteAlas not TG, only 91 other gueses to go :-). (Good to recover my avi on here).
Deletelol. I’m going to go with MU. TG
DeleteScoldings are more personal than corporal punishment. With CP, the receiver can still believe in their heart that what they did had justification. The scolding breaks down that justification. Done well, the receiver has to understand and acknowledge that they were in the wrong. So, it is much more personal to receive a scolding than any form of physical punishment, no matter how humiliating the physical part might be.
ReplyDeleteI found that the most effective punishment with my partners was to order them to write up their confession and request. They had to bring me a document that said:
"I misbehaved. I did this (or didn't do this) and this was bad because... So, I deserve to be punished. Please punish me."
I then made sure that the argument why they deserved to be punished was complete, thorough, and contrite. When it was, I had them read this aloud, then sign it and date it.
(Afterward, they had to annotate their thank-you and their request that if they misbehaved in the future they wanted me to punish them.)
It's the acknowledgement of misbehavior that's truly hard. Usually much harder than the physical act of accepting the pain of the punishment. Scolding gets right to that issue.
And, for the record, I thought last week's topic was a success.
"It's the acknowledgement of misbehavior that's truly hard. Usually much harder than the physical act of accepting the pain of the punishment. Scolding gets right to that issue." I think that's largely true, and I agree with you that "scoldings are more personal than corporal punishment." Your comment was largely focused on "personal" from the recipient's point of view, but I think it also is more personal from the point of view of the disciplinarian and what he/she is thinking about the behavior and what is about to happen to address it. The physical act of spanking conveys information, but it's a very narrow format for "speaking her mind."
DeleteThanks regarding last week's topic. I've learned over time that sometimes I topic I really liked won't catch on, but also that sometimes it doesn't have anything to do with the topic itself. People just get busy sometimes.
I meant to add, I like your emphasis on accepting responsibility, but I also think it works because you "order them to write up their confession and request." I've often had good intentions around self-reporting and confessing, but I also have real problems carrying through when it's a purely voluntary, self-initiated process.
DeleteI think that's a great point about the disciplinarian's point of view. I can imagine her feeling like she got some real connection at a personal level. A lot of the reward comes from being able to change the recipient's behavior, which also works both ways. There's a deep sense of submission, knowing your partner has the ability to change your behavior. You have to give up a lot of control to allow them to direct how you behave. In the end, it's a sense of love, because someone cares enough to notice and get directly and personally involved. We give attention to the people we love, and that works in both directions.
DeleteRP writes: “it's a sense of love because someone cares enough to notice and get directly and personally involved.”
DeleteI think I have felt that more when we are working on a behavioral goal when she pays close attention to how things are going and how successful I have been or have not been. Of course, discipline, particularly if consistent, is a huge expression of love and caring.
One particular experience with my former G.F. sticks in my memory about that. After a scolding and some time in the corner, she was about to begin a hairbrush spanking, and I Implored her not to do it. (don’t remember why, but may have been spanked recently or had an orgasm recently but really didn’t want to be spanked) I remember she just looked me in the eyes and said:” Alan, I would not bother to spank you if I did not love and care for you. I think after that I just went over her lap without another word
Alan
"You have to give up a lot of control to allow them to direct how you behave." I think this is the #1 challenge in moving from a fairly limited DD relationship to something more along the lines of an FLR, particularly if you're not a submissive at heart. Over the years, there have been more than a few commenters who, when you get down to it, really haven't given up much control at all. They get spanked for things they want to be spanked for under circumstances they've pretty much dictated. It's soooooo much harder when you agree to give up some autonomy and actually take actual independent direction from someone else.
DeleteDan writes: “It's soooooo much harder when you agree to give up some autonomy and actually take actual independent direction from someone else.”
DeleteYES! But that is also the sweet spot in a DD relationship. Deep down, it’s what we both want to experience and fear experiencing.
My working theory is that most spankos who need or want to submit to authority hang onto their autonomy, sometimes desperately. It is that hanging on that seeks the release of letting go- and maybe the experience of letting go and discovering the world has not ended.
Alan
"My working theory is that most spankos who need or want to submit to authority hang onto their autonomy, sometimes desperately."
DeleteThis is why I think there is something very Zen-like about the goals of DD for some of us. It may *seem* like the means of getting there are very different, until you find out that in real traditional Zen schools, it was pretty common for masters to hit meditating students with a stick to get them to focus.
"In the end, it's a sense of love, because someone cares enough to notice and get directly and personally involved."
DeleteThis is what I felt, that my wife loved me enough to lead me to be the best possible version of myself. I am so grateful to her for that. The physical pain was a small price to pay!
KOJ
Dan said: "I think this is the #1 challenge in moving from a fairly limited DD relationship to something more along the lines of an FLR, particularly if you're not a submissive at heart. Over the years, there have been more than a few commenters who, when you get down to it, really haven't given up much control at all. They get spanked for things they want to be spanked for under circumstances they've pretty much dictated. It's soooooo much harder when you agree to give up some autonomy and actually take actual independent direction from someone else."
DeleteAlan replied: "YES! But that is also the sweet spot in a DD relationship. Deep down, it’s what we both want to experience and fear experiencing...My working theory is that most spankos who need or want to submit to authority hang onto their autonomy, sometimes desperately. It is that hanging on that seeks the release of letting go- and maybe the experience of letting go and discovering the world has not ended."
I think there is just a huge, huge amount of truth and insight in what you wrote. You guys always amaze me!
-ZM
Dan,
DeleteWondering if you can elaborate on the comparison with Zen Buddhism? I admit I don't know much about Zen Buddhism, or Buddhism in general, so the comparison is lost on me.
J
J, it's not easy to explain in a sentence or two, and I'm not by any means an expert. But, my observation was tied to Alan's statement that "It is that hanging on that seeks the release of letting go." Zen (and other varieties of Buddhism) would say that we hold onto control, even though our sense that we control things is basically an illusion. We get very attached to our illusion that we control things. Therefore, paradoxically, one of the keys to being free is admitting that we aren't in control. I'll let Alan speak for himself, but I think what he is saying--and it reflects a lot of Buddhist teaching--is that we have this desire to "hang on" to our sense of control, but what we really need is the release of letting go.
DeleteThe closest I can come in DD or FLR terms is that many of us are control freaks who, paradoxically, feel this need to give in to someone else's authority. My favorite term for it is "surrender."
My allusion to getting hit with a stick is that Westerners see Zen as this kind of hippy-dippy peaceful practice, but in traditional Zen schools in Japan, the teachers would carry long sticks and hit students who were supposedly meditating but who the teachers thought were drifting or not focusing. There's actually a huge amount of discipline that goes into being able to release and let go.
Dan,
DeleteI vaguely remember Michael Palin being on the receiving end of these sticks (a keisaku) during the Japanese part of Full Circle.
I suppose the things you discussed are another reason why I personally view DD before sex as advantageous. Rather than resisting it, I try to just let it happen, focusing on what is coming afterwards.
J
"The closest I can come in DD or FLR terms is that many of us are control freaks who, paradoxically, feel this need to give in to someone else's authority. My favorite term for it is 'surrender.'" - Bingo! Exactly this!
Delete-ZM
Scolding only prolong the spanking and my wife believes in long scoldings. I have stood there with pants and underpants around my ankles while be scolded like a little boy. It is the worse and I just want the spanking over with.
ReplyDeleteThere is a subtle difference between a scolding and a warning.
ReplyDeleteI would classify Anne' as the latter.
My wife has issued warnings on front of others , but not what I would call a scolding which goes into more detail about the behaviour and can be lengthy while a warning I'd short and sweet ( well perhaps not sweet).
Scoldings happen in private and usually preceding or even during or after a spanking.
Are you sure Anne has perhaps 'parker's this offence until her hand is back to full strength?
I think you're right that any kind of scolding is probably, at least implicitly, also a warning.
DeleteI mean 'parked' .(hate that spellcheck).
ReplyDeleteWe have a little of that. Dev will say “ we’re having a discussion later “ This only means one thing. When the time arrives she calls me into the living room. She’s seated on the “ spanking chair “. We got this several years ago specifically for this purpose but it blends in with the other furniture so nobody will ever know. Sometimes she tells me to bring her the paddle. This adds a lot to the apprehension. As I stand there , she always asks do you know why I’m getting this ? As I lay across her lap the discussion begins as she’s pulling my pants down Many times the lecture makes me feel so bad that I’m actually grateful for the spanking. A true scolding has occurred on a couple occasions when she took care of matters out in the “ woodshed “. It’s rare that we go out there and it’s only for the most serious matters. As I’ve said before I secretly rate all of her spankings on a 1-10 scale. The worst one ever given was a 9.5. I was literally bruised and sore for at least a week. That place is to be avoided.
ReplyDelete"We got this several years ago specifically for this purpose but it blends in with the other furniture so nobody will ever know." I think there is something very powerful and iconic about objects you acquire specifically for this purpose that others don't associate with that purpose. It's kind of a shared, naughty secret.
DeleteWhile I have no doubt you see your woodshed as a place to be avoided, I'm still envious of you having one.
JR, like Dan I am kind of envious of your having an actual “woodshed”. I can remember visiting my cousins who lived in an old farm house in the country when I was a kid. Like all farm houses of that era, there was an actual woodshed at the back of the house behind the kitchen. It was used not only to store wood for the woodstove, but also for spankings. I was never present when any of my cousins got spanked, but being a budding spanko even then, I couldn’t resist asking them questions about the paddle that hung on a hook in the woodshed. I think the purpose of doing spankings in the woodshed rather than the kitchen was to make the spanking somewhat private, although anyone in the kitchen would know and hear what happening in the woodshed. I suppose in your case, JR, the woodshed isn’t used for reasons of privacy, since your wife probably wouldn’t spank you at all if there was anyone in the house. But I suppose that for a more serious spanking, just the idea of a “trip to the woodshed” would heighten the apprehension because of cultural associations with woodsheds. I wonder, if someone was to go into your woodshed, would they see any telltale signs that it is a place of punishment, like that paddle that hung on the wall in my cousins’ woodshed?
DeleteGH
We don’t have a “woodshed as such. But for some time, one of our guest bedrooms has been dedicated to discipline only, where she keeps many of her tools. We started that several years ago when she wanted to draw a clear line between spanking and lovemaking. So being sent there or taken there does add to the experience. It is kept locked so no one in the house will wander into it;
DeleteI once had an actual woodshed experience with my former girlfriend. It was a one-off experience and something she devised; She had an aluminum shed in her backyard for tools and incidentals, commonly used for storage. She took me out there (afternoon), removed all my clothes, and left me for a period ( maybe a half hour). She came back, spanked me very hard, bent over bags of grass seed, and told me I could come back into the house when I was ready to apologize. The shed was fairly shielded from her neighbor’s yards but could be seen from some angles, and I had a very red bare ass. So I waited until after dusk and then ran back into the house where she was waiting and laughing. It was very embarrassing and exciting ( in retrospect), and I was secretly proud of her for conceiving it. We never repeated it, but as discipline, it was very effective, and I never forgot it
Alan
My wife is pretty moderate as a spanker, but since we embarked on FLR, she has become a world class scold. Sometimes the scolding is a prelude to a spanking, sometimes it stands on its own, and sometimes it is simultaneous with a spanking. For me, scolding and spanking blend together. Both are embarrassing and humbling while she is doing it, and sometimes I find them hard to take, but the fact that she does both things turns me on. I guess it is because it turns me on that she has the power to humble me that way. I actually tend to think of a scolding as a verbal spanking.
ReplyDeleteMy wife has never spanked me in front of witnesses, but she has scolded me publicly, which is extremely embarrassing, given that scolding feels like a verbal spanking to me.
One time she tore a strip off me in front of another couple who are old friends. It embarrassed me, and I think it embarrassed them. They left shortly afterwards, and my wife then gave me a harsher than usual strapping with the belt. She didn't reveal to our friends that she was going to punish me after they left, but I couldn't help imagining that they knew what was going to happen to me based on the tone of the scolding.
Dan, I can identify with the incident of your wife scolding you for using your cellphone during dinner, although she sometimes does the same thing. My wife has also scolded me for doing things that she sometimes does herself, but if I point that out, the scolding can easily progress to a spanking. In the moment it feels unfair, but I submit to it because, let's face it, the unfairness of FLR is part of the turn-on. I think you also make a good point that if you do something inappropriate, the fact that your wife is sometimes guilty of the same thing doesn't mean you shouldn't be held to account. Think about a workplace analogy. Suppose you get a dressing down from your boss for being late on a report. If you were late, you deserve the dressing down. It wouldn't be appropriate for you to tell your boss that you are aware that they have occasionally been late on things too. I view my wife's authority to scold or discipline me the same way.
Thanks, Anon. Was the other couple aware that your wife does corporal punishment? I do think your comment highlights one big problem with scolding in public. It's not just that it is embarrassing to you. It may also embarrass and turn off guests, friends, family, etc.
Delete"My wife has also scolded me for doing things that she sometimes does herself, but if I point that out, the scolding can easily progress to a spanking." Ours hasn't quite gone in that direction. Instead, she just denies that she does it or makes some trivial distinction that she thinks makes her action OK while mine stays problematic. But, I've also noticed that sometimes if I do pushback and suggest that she's guilty of the same thing, she subtly changes her own behavior even if she never acknowledges it. But, you're right that, in the end, we've made these relationships intentionally a one-way flow in terms of the authority and power.
Also, would you please provide a name or initials to identify yourself? It's easier to keep track of who I'm responding to.
DeleteI think the whole "public scolding" thing is quite problematic for just the reason you said, Dan. Quite frankly, it makes most people quite uncomfortable witnessing a confrontation of any sort or seeing someone embarrassed, and it is a little unfair to put them in that awkward situation unnecessarily. Though of course at the same time, I also think that people need to grow some thicker skin.
DeleteFor me, scolding in front of someone else would work a lot better if the other person or people know about my wife and I having a DD relationship and are generally ok with it. Then, it is not really very awkward for them, since they recognize it is just part of our dynamic. At the same time, it would still be equally embarrassing for me to be scolding in front of someone who know, or even maybe more so, because they also can pretty well imagine what will probably happen when my wife and I are alone!
-ZM
Agreed ZM, including on the tension between doing right by bystanders while also believing everyone generally needs to get a thicker skin.
DeleteThis is Anon. Sorry I didn't give a name. To answer your question, no our friends don't know that my wife does corporal punishment. We are pretty secretive about that. I agree with the point you and ZM make about public scolding being potentially unfair to witnesses. Usually my wife's public scoldings aren't that extreme.. The incident when she tore a strip off of me in front of friends was an exception. It wasn't like a calculated humiliation or an intentional public demonstration of her dominant status. She just lost her temper, for reasons I won't go into, and did it spontaneously. Maybe it would have happened even if we didn't have a disciplinary relationship, but it would probably have been less if embarrassing if I wasn't a spanked husband because I would not have thought about our friends figuring that out
DeleteGH.
Hi GH,
DeleteI was thinking about your comment and how the different parties might experience it. Of course, I am generalizing here, since everything is always highly situational and depends greatly on just who the people are and what they are like. Also, I know that generalizing is ALWAYS a bad idea and that generalizations NEVER hold up! OK, enough attempts at lame humor befitting my engineering background...
Assuming there is no DD relationship (so perhaps a "normal" couple), then witnessing a wife's angry outburst and her dressing him down is awkward and embarrassing. It is always a little cringe to see someone publicly embarrassed, so they are embarrassed for him, but perhaps even more so for the wife. Also, it is embarrassing for the wife, if not at the moment, then almost certainly when reflecting on it later. And finally, it is embarrassing to him, because it feels very awkward to have the spotlight turned on you and your bad behavior.
Now, adding the existence of a DD relationship, but assuming the bystanders (or whatever we wish to call them) have no knowledge of the relationship changes the dynamic, but not in huge ways. This was the situation you described, as I understood it. For the bystanders, it is of course the same as if there is no relationship, since they don't know about it. However, in the off chance that one or both of them also has interests along this line, then it dramatically changes the experience for them, even though they don't know anything. For your wife, I expect this ultimately was still somewhat embarrassing, but also probably with the little surge of excitement that comes from exercising the authority she knows she has and the whole "secret thrill" thing. Also, as you pointed out, from your perspective it is actually more embarrassing, since not only do you have to have the embarrassment of being called out in front of others, but also the thinking that they might figure out the dynamic at work.
And finally, there is the situation where the bystanders know about your DD/FLR relationship - at least in part but perhaps fully - and seem to be fine with it. In this case, it removes all of the awkwardness and most of the embarrassment for the bystanders, since they know that this is something that you are ok with, but still it may be slightly embarrassing seeing someone embarrassed, and of course they are no longer embarrassed for your wife at all. And for your wife, it removes all embarrassment, so at the point, it is all about the feeling of empowerment and the thrill of showing her authority. And for you, I expect that it even further increases the embarrassment, since the bystanders are going to be left with at least a mental image of you being spanked, whether it actually happens or not, and whether they witness it or not.
Maybe in the end, there is about the same overall amount of embarrassment in each of these situations, but it is distributed quite differently.
-ZM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, ZM. I agree with your analysis of the 3 possible states of awareness in the witnesses. The second scenarios best describes our situation. My embarrassment at being scolded in front of friends was heightened by the fact that I felt my wife's anger was justified. As soon as our friends left, shortly afterwards, my wife ordered me to go to the bedroom, where she gave me the harshest punishment she ever has. I don't know whether my wife got a "secret thrill", but I do think she found it satisfying to be able to express her anger both in the scolding and with the strap. I don't know whether she felt embarrassed bout losing her temper because she felt justified. My gut feeling is that she wasn't embarrassed and probably didn't even care if our friends, who have been close friends for many years, guessed that we have a DD arrangement.
DeleteGH
Good topic. The best thing about scolding and lecturing seems to help her get into a dominant frame of mind. Our check in begins with me facing her and letting her know about anything that might give her any info that would add to reasons for spanking. It helps get me in a more submissive and vulnerable state of mind if I am put in the corner before the check in. She will often lecture while she is delivering the spanking, which seems to help her get more intense while punctuating each word with the paddle. As others have pointed out, scolding has a maternal vibe, and enhances the spanking. I enjoyed seeing the chart about the percentage of guys that wanted more strictness, scolding and spanking. It doesn't happen often, but my G/F did correct me once at a dinner party. It was over my using my cell during dinner, and she said something like "are you really doing that?" It was obvious some guests were surprised, and I was both embarrased and turned on. Having been spanked repeatedly over that issue, it doesn't happen anymore.
ReplyDelete"The best thing about scolding and lecturing seems to help her get into a dominant frame of mind." I'm sure it is a confidence builder.
Delete"I enjoyed seeing the chart about the percentage of guys that wanted more strictness, scolding and spanking." The thing I find most intriguing about the poll responses is their complete one-sidedness. Almost everyone thinks they want "more" on almost every front.
Regarding everything thinking they want more on almost every front, that is pretty natural since most of us have spent way too much time thinking about this whole thing and probably building much of it up in our minds. The real question is what would the numbers look like if you asked the same men, and they were all now getting what they think they wanted when they took the survey the first time. Would they now want even more, or would they realize that they may not have actually enjoyed getting as much as they previously thought they wanted!
Delete-ZM
"The real question is what would the numbers look like if you asked the same men, and they were all now getting what they think they wanted when they took the survey the first time." For sure.
Delete“"I enjoyed seeing the chart about the percentage of guys that wanted more strictness, scolding and spanking." The thing I find most intriguing about the poll responses is their complete one-sidedness. Almost everyone thinks they want "more" on almost every front.”
DeleteFor myself, I always want more strictness, more scolding, and more spanking in general, even though I might not like it in the heat of the moment. I find it difficult to sort those contradictory feelings out. I think it may have to do with the fact that my wife and I have different motivations for our arrangement. Deep down, I crave FLR and DD for sexual reasons, I think. My wife, on the other hand, says she likes FLR, and the power that DD gives her, for non-sexual reasons. I sometimes imagine that if my wife was a spanko like me (a real top to my bottom), we might not have a 24/7 FLR. Instead, we would be equals outside the bedroom, but we would be into elaborate dominant/submission role playing in the bedroom. But since my wife isn’t into role playing, I proposed to her a form of power exchange that is real and full time and at her discretion, and she agreed to that. I should add that my wife has always been somewhat bossy, and she has always had a quick temper and a sharp tongue. That was true before FLR, but before FLR I would push back and we would sometimes have heated arguments. Now that she has the unilateral power to punish me, however, she has been empowered to be become more fully the bossy, quick tempered person she always was. That doesn’t mean that the part of me that used to get annoyed and push back has ceased to exist. It still stings my ego to be scolded, and spankings really hurt, even though I fantasize about being scolded and punished even more harshly. Not sure exactly what I am trying to say here. Maybe it’s that the arrangement I have with my wife is sort of a compromise between my deep sexual fantasies and the reality of my relationship with her as she really is. Thus, the desire for more more more is the result of that compromise. I will never be completely satisfied because I have cravings that can never be fully satisfied in real life.
GH
GH, it almost sounds like for you, the fantasy sort of has become real, as you say having a real FLR has empowered your wife to show her temper, scold, spank, etc. at will. But, you would prefer that it be more like role playing and less real because the role playing would be more overtly sexual? Is that sort of what you are getting at?
Delete“GH, it almost sounds like for you, the fantasy sort of has become real, as you say having a real FLR has empowered your wife to show her temper, scold, spank, etc. at will. But, you would prefer that it be more like role playing and less real because the role playing would be more overtly sexual? Is that sort of what you are getting at?”
DeleteGood question, Dan. But I’m not sure what the answer is. My feelings about it are kind of confused. I don’t think spanking, and femdom D/s more generally, could ever not be sexual for me. But for me, it is most erotic when it seems more like real punishment and is, therefore, less “overtly” erotic. For example, my wife never spanks me as a prelude to sex. She spanks me when I have displeased her, so she doesn’t turn the punishment into a reward by having sex with me immediately afterwards. But for some reason that is more erotic to me than it would be if she spanked me for a sexual purpose. The fact that I have to pull my pants down while she remains fully clothed makes me feel as though she is utterly indifferent to my sexuality in the context of punishment. It makes me feel like a naughty child being spanked by an adult. In fact, unlike other men I have read about it, I don’t even get a full erection when my wife spanks me…maybe because I feel too embarrassed. But when I replay the memory of it later, I get extremely aroused, and then I will heighten the effect by imagining her punishing me even more harshly than she did. It’s very confusing. So, I don’t know whether role playing could actually be better than what I already have. I just wonder whether, if my wife was a spankophile like me, she might push my boundaries for her own pleasure by imagining that she is a strict teacher or an angry boss or something like that: she would be in role as a woman who sees me as a subordinate and is utterly indifferent to my sexuality. That’s the fantasy I imagine role playing. Maybe that would actually be less satisfying than the real spankings my wife gives me. I don’t know. Maybe there is always going to be a gap between our fantasies and what it is possible to have in real life. Isn’t that part of the reason we get off on reading and writing about DD, even though we should theoretically be satisfied with the real thing we get from our wives?
GH
"Maybe there is always going to be a gap between our fantasies and what it is possible to have in real life." That's probably true, though I think sometimes you do something you've been fantasizing about, and after that it's not that compelling anymore. "It's only kinky once."
DeleteIt seems that the “real thing,” including the FLR, may be too much of a good thing for GH. It may be that his wife’s real control is beyond his comfort zone, whereas it seems to him that “role-playing” would produce some of the same results without him being out of that zone.
DeleteI imagine many, if not most, males in a female-led DD relationship have had doubts/regrets from time to time, especially when discipline was severe or behavior is being imposed that we resist. But speaking for myself, role-playing, even among two spankos, probably wouldn’t do it because the reality of the experience is what I want and need. (Despite occasional doubts/regrets at the moment)
It sounds like an FLR is part of the agreed arrangement for his wife, while a little more parity might be closer to his comfort zone. I relate to that myself and think of what we have as a female-led DD, where she controls all discipline in the relationship, but we share and balance many other things in our marriage. I doubt that I would be happy in a full-fledged FLR. And my wife is happy with where we are and doesn’t want to take it further. Still, it’s clear that some women do -- and equally clear that if a wife or G.F. is given disciplinary authority, she can take it further than either of you might have imagined at the beginning.
Alan
Alan: “It sounds like an FLR is part of the agreed arrangement for his wife, while a little more parity might be closer to his comfort zone. I relate to that myself and think of what we have as a female-led DD, where she controls all discipline in the relationship, but we share and balance many other things in our marriage. I doubt that I would be happy in a full-fledged FLR. And my wife is happy with where we are and doesn’t want to take it further. Still, it’s clear that some women do -- and equally clear that if a wife or G.F. is given disciplinary authority, she can take it further than either of you might have imagined at the beginning”.
DeleteAlan, if your wife has the authority to discipline you as she sees fit, and you don’t have a reciprocal power to discipline her, doesn’t that mean that female-led DD is already well on the way to “full-fledged FLR.” I’m not sure how “full-fledged” my FLR is. It’s not as if my wife keeps me under her thumb at all times or doesn’t allow me a voice in decision making. She doesn’t treat me treat me like a servant or a slave. But nor am I her equal, and with her power to discipline comes an expectation that she will be obeyed when she puts her foot down. I could, of course, rebel against her authority and refuse to obey or submit to punishment. But then she could punish me in a more extreme way by saying, “Fine, then let’s just forget this FLR thing.” If she was a spanko like me, on the other hand, we would be more equal, and I could imagine negotiating role play scenarios that turned us both on. But as it is, she holds all the cards because she is able to leverage something I need to get things she wants in the way she wants.
GH
For what it's worth, I don't miss being spanked but I do miss being scolded. I miss her voice, for one, especially with that maternal tone. I would give anything to stand before her again listening to one of her lectures.
ReplyDeleteKOJ
Right now, I think I would feel the opposite. But, this rigorous scolding thing is relatively new for us. Who knows how I may feel in ten years?
DeleteTG...absolutely not. The only clue I will give is we are disliked but not quite as much as Millwall!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteRegarding scolding, it has never really been a particularly big part of our way of doing things. DD spanking with us was intended as "checks and balances", rather than a female authority thing.
ReplyDeleteI forgot to comment on the discussion last week, my bad. Part of my spankings are focused on prevention and maintenance, which by their nature, don't tend to involve so much scolding.
Having confirmed what I understood to be the case with my wife, she says that from her perspective, the main purpose of scolding is to link spankings to specific offences, so as to differentiate them from preventative/maintenance spankings. Therefore, scolding is short and to the point with us.
Regarding scolding in public, no, this is never something we wanted to do. Dealing with grievances in public was never our desired way. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that we have no disagreements, but in our circles, resolving them in public isn't normally the preferred way.
I definitely agree on what was said in this post regarding having a clean slate and clearing the air. Scolding tends to cause bad feelings to build up. Also, my spankings have undeniably had an erotic component, partly because they are normally timed before sex: whoever heard of clearing the air with a scolding just before sex?
J
"[S]he says that from her perspective, the main purpose of scolding is to link spankings to specific offences, so as to differentiate them from preventative/maintenance spankings. Therefore, scolding is short and to the point with us." That's a good point.
DeleteMy husband scolds me without spanking me. I hate that! Finish the job!
ReplyDeleteCynthia Ellen
You've said before that he has a problem with punishing, because he thinks you should be able to control your own behavior. It's interesting that he's OK with scolding for that behavior but not OK with spanking for it.
DeleteYes, that's an interesting point. I don't think he considers scolding as punishment but more of reminding me how I should be acting. And the scoldings usually include the message that I should be controlling my own behavior. One time after he scolded me I went and stood in the corner and he asked me what I was doing and I said being punished. He didn't say anything and went in another room and watched TV until I decided to come out of the corner. So that didn't work either!
ReplyDeleteCynthia Ellen
Hi Cynthia Ellen,
DeleteI don’t even play Ann Landers or Dear Abby on TV, but I will offer some observations based on what you wrote earlier. Clearly, you have an unmovable object here with your husband’s attitude toward spanking you. I will not even speculate why he feels the way he does. The fact is that is where he is and what you must work with.
Three things you can do:
1. Decide how important A DD spanking relationship is to you and whether you can live without it. It seems likely that if neither of you takes action, the relationship remains where it is DD-wise. Can you live without it? Do you want to?
Apparently, some and maybe many spankos make a deal with the status quo and sublimate their spanking needs, at least to some degree. Others do not or cannot, But the important thing is for you to determine which you are on that question.
2. If you decide you need something, you have to consider taking risks to achieve it. One would be simply to pour out your feelings and needs to him, repeatedly, if necessary, until he fully understands how important this is to you. That has apparently happened in many F/M relationships where a wife agrees to begin discipline after understanding how vital her husband needs it.
3. Moving on to the higher risks, you could talk to him about being spanked by another man, a pro, preferably, but you could leave it ambiguous. That might jolt him out of his present attitude as it did for at least one female poster on here whose husband wanted a DD relationship she resisted.
Regardless of how you proceed, eroticize your spanking interactions as much as possible to stimulate and motivate him. Even if it is not particularly erotic for you, you can make it very erotic for him, and that alone will increase your chances of bringing him around
I agree with everything you wrote. My previous wife was just dead set against DD or really anything spanking or kink related, and nothing could have or would have ever changed that. So, because I loved her, I lived with her for 25 mostly happy years. The marriage ultimately fell apart, but for other reasons.
DeleteIn the end, you can't make your partner do anything and there is no certain formula for it, no matter how hard one searches. So the only reasonable approach is to try to encourage them in every possible way, and then if they still are unwilling, if you can't live without it then leave, and if you can live without it, do that.
-ZM
It occurs to me that spanking may be about the only kinky sexy activity that would be damn near impossible to hide from your partner if you decided to go outside the marriage for it. At least if it was a serious effort. Too much marking.
DeleteI don't want to be spanked by another man. I want it in my marriage. If he wanted another man to spank me and he supervised, I would go for that.
DeleteI have tried to eroticize punishment for him and he has actually tried it. But I can't get him to do it consistently or hard enough to make it real punishment. He will spank me as foreplay, and he makes it sting, then takes me from behind, which is explosive for both of us. I have been settling for that while I try to expand his horizons.
I usually can get what I want by acting seductively, but he thinks I really want sex even though I tell him I want real punishment first!
Cynthia Ellen
Cynthia Ellen,
DeleteHave you discussed with him what's holding him back? One possibility is that he has some kind of innate dislike, or even aversion, to punishing someone, in which case you might simply be incompatible as far as a disciplinary relationship goes.
Another possibility, though, is that he's worried (perhaps subconsciously) about changing the way you view him, that you'll resent him, or that you'll feel abused, if he actually punishes you for real. In that case, you might be able to make progress by convincing him that in fact, no, him punishing you when you need it would actually strengthen your relationship. I don't think that's something you can do "in the moment". I suspect you'll need to have a serious, honest, conversation (or, more likely, several) outside of a sexual context in which you lay out how this is something that you don't merely want as a fantasy, but something you really need, reassuring him that still you'll love him just as much, even if it makes you cry or protest in the moment, And that you understand that this doesn't come naturally to him, and that it will require effort, which you'll appreciate and love him all the more for.
Obviously I don't know either of you, but it seems like an approach worth trying, since obviously it IS very important to your soul.
K
Yes it is! I have tried to talk to him seriously about it, but he gets uncomfortable and wants to stop the conversation. He has said that a husband should not hurt his wife. I respect that and have tried to explain the difference betwern spanking on the bottom and abuse. But he doesn't really listen. I may have to live with a few slaps as foreplay. Sigh ...
DeleteI do like your approach and will try it if I can get him to listen.
Cynthia Ellen
I agree with K above. You are going to have to figure out a way to talk with him about it. Most of us blokes can be led by our genitals... maybe there is something that he really wants that you haven't done that you could trade? Maybe try leaving photos of women's bottoms around the house that have been spanked to the extent that you need? Screen saver on computer? Lock screen on his phone?
DeleteGood luck, I know how it is when your partner isn't in to it. It is not front of mind for my wife and I have to work to put it into her mind or she just lets things slide. After a number of serious conversations about what I see as a need and why I am like I am, we've agreed that I'll put a pink post it note on the fridge when I'm "overdue". If she doesn't have a reason to punish me at the time, she will manufacture one. Possibly silly but works for us.
You have indicated that before Dan when I have commented on the use of disciplarians and all I can say is that either I have been lucky over the last 7 years or Mrs GL has been ignoring signs. I suppose in my case it helped that we haven't been sexually active in this period and she tends to take an age to come to bed. Either way I suspect I'm an outlier and people should be cautious and assume in most cases your comment is correct. (BTW can't believe my Google account sign-in has stopped working again so soon after I managed to use it here LOL).
ReplyDeleteNothing quite as humbling as having my dear wife explain to me what I have done to deserve a session over her knee. If it's just a scolding, Beth is usually right to the point, but what I consider a lecture will be a rather drawn out event. She does most of the talking of course, but I am expected to give complete responses to her questions and when the time comes, repeat back to her why I am being punished.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it comes from being a teacher, but she's very good at making me feel badly about disappointing her. By the time the lecture is over, I'm more than ready to accept my spanking.
Kevin
I suspect you're right that teachers are generally great at laying on a serious guilt trip!
DeleteYes, and as a teacher's spouse, I can tell you that it's one of the few options they have to deal with bad behavior. Not that I would advocate for corporal punishment in schools. I didn't grow up with that, but now even a strong scolding isn't allowed. The assistant principal is a good friend of ours and says her approach is to express how disappointed she is, in sort sort of a grandmotherly way.
DeleteKevin
That is what scolding or lecture does to me, also. A wife that takes the time to put him in that psychological space where he feels shamed or embarrassed and let's go to her authority will get a lot more from disciplining her husband than just beating his ass ( although that works too, but not as well)
ReplyDeleteAlan
This may be off topic, but I just want to say that I find the second to last image in this week's blog really sexy...as well as relevant to the topic. The implied power dynamic between the woman with her arms crossed, looking like she is giving a stern lecture, and the naked man, kneeling on the stool with his head bowed and his red bottom on display is exquisite. It's embarrassing to think of anyone seeing me look that submissive to my wife, but the image really captures the spirit of DD in our house.
ReplyDeleteGH
I like that one, too. I almost didn't use it, because I shy away from using anything with live subjects and nudity, because I think those may be more likely to get a post, or a blog, flagged for takedown. But, after looking through my collection, it was about the only thing I could find with a clear example of a lecture/scolding taking place *after* a spanking.
DeleteThis may be my first time commenting, but this topic is of interest. My wife rarely scolds or lectures, but when she does, boy do I listen and boy, do I feel small. I've earned it every time and I know it and she drills it into me. Spankings almost always follow, as well as bare-bottomed corner time, followed by my commitment that I've learned my lesson. I hope!
ReplyDeleteAs to public, no, not so others would know. In the car, yes, but not with witnesses. The closest this came once was when we were waiting for a table at a restaurant and I was whiney about how long it was taking. She gave me a couple of those "looks" which should have gotten my attention, but didn't. Finally, she said, in a very low voice, "I can take you out to the car and spank you right now or you'll start to behave I'll spank you when we get home. It's your choice, buster!" I clammed up, probably red faced. I quickly looked around to see if anyone overheard and this one woman, about our age, wouldn't meet my eye. As we FINALLY got our table and walked by her, she quietly said to my wife, "good for you. I wish I had the nerve to do that!" I heard, too, and then I KNOW I was red-faced.
It was a pretty rough spanking that night when we got home, but at least I avoided corner time. For once.
Robert, a submissive husband
My wife was pretty public with her threats but she never used the words spanking or paddling or corporal punishment. She liked to speak a bit euphemistically, though it was rather eady to figure out. One of her favorites was, "You better straighten up or you'll be bent over." I laughed out loud the first time I heard it. She thought I was bucking her and was going to set me afire when we got home until I explained to her that it just sounded humorous. Then she laughed, too.
DeleteKOJ
KOJ, did your wife allude to spanking in front of people you both knew? My wife has scolded me with family and close friends around, but they would have to figure out for themselves what the next step would be. I can recall a couple of times when someone commented with a smile that "Kev's going to get it good after we leave", or something like that at least. I'm pretty sure they were kidding, but I probably blushed anyway.
DeleteKevin