Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you all had a great week. For once, I felt like I got quite a bit accomplished over the course of the week. Nothing big, but I managed to check lots of small tasks off the to-do list. I also beat most of the people in our neighborhood to putting up Halloween decorations.
We had a good discussion about dealing with the loss of a spanker. Although loss of a spankee also was included in the topic, we didn’t get much on that, which I guess isn’t surprising given that virtually all our commenters these days are on the receiving end of the paddle. I wasn’t sure whether the topic was broad enough to generate much interest, but I think it did serve as a launching point for people to emphasize what a big role DD plays in most of our commenters’ lives once it is established.
While we were all discussing that topic, Glenmore sent me an email with the following topic suggestion:
"I notice that for most of us, including myself, we know about a spanking and that it will be coming. But I do have a couple of occasions where she 'ambushed' me and the spanking was a complete surprise.
While the spankings were not welcome at the time , those two events tend to resonate with me upon reflection.
On both occasions, the spanking was deserved but I had just assumed she had no intention of following through. On one occasion she was waiting for me after coming out of the shower (she did permit me to dry off thankfully), and the other was after an evening entertaining friends and we were doing the tidy-up after she left.
The surprise element left me mostly speechless although my initial impulse was to resist or argue for a reprieve. I just wasn't ready to be spanked, but she remained determined.
Neither were the hardest spankings I ever got, but she certainly seemed to enjoy the power she asserted in those situations and how my resistance quickly dissipated into acceptance.
It certainly kept me 'on my toes for a while after that not knowing that a spanking may be coming or if you did something to upset her unknowingly.
Planned spankings you have time to get your head around and can prepare yourself mentally and physically, but not when she 'ambushed' me."
While it hasn’t happened a lot, I can think of a few instances in which she took me by surprise, though sometimes the spanking itself, or that she decided to spank for something, wasn’t a surprise but the timing was.
In fact, that happened in a recent spanking I talked about here. A few weeks ago, I asked for comments about how couples here deal with multiple offenses and with attempts at delay. It had come up in the context of me seeking to avoid or delay getting spanked for not locking doors. Virtually all the commenters said that I should have been spanked for each and every instance of leaving the garage door open, and possibly for arguing. I’m never sure when Anne is keeping up with reading the blog, so I summarized the comments in a journal entry, which I sent to her by text one afternoon. I knew that by putting it down in a journal entry, I was increasing the odds that a spanking would actually happen, but I also thought that if it did, it would probably be that night. To my surprise, a few minutes after I sent the text, she came into the kitchen and told me to get upstairs for my spanking. I must have looked as surprised as I felt, because she commented something to the effect of “Oh, you didn’t think I’d take care of it that quickly, did you?” The result was our first daytime spanking in front of a window without the shades drawn, which I talked about a few weeks ago.
There have been a couple of other times I can think of when she ordered a spanking unexpectedly, and as I recall both involved chores. One was failing to sweep the kitchen floor after she told me to do it. The other was forgetting to clean a rice cooker. Both came as a surprise because I had forgotten about the tasks, but also because she carried out the spanking immediately.
Glen noted that in both of his “surprise” spankings, he deserved the spanking but didn’t think she would follow through. I can’t recall any times that has happened to me, and I can't really think of a time when I thought I would get away with something but didn't.
Glen also noted that his first reaction both times was to resist or argue for a reprieve. “I just wasn't ready to be spanked, but she remained determined.” I can understand the “I wasn’t ready to be spanked” reaction.
We’ve talked a lot about how immediate spankings are probably best in terms of actually modifying behavior, but the reality in our DD marriage has been that there is almost always some substantial delay between the offense and the punishment or between her telling me I’m going to be spanked and it actually happening. For the most part, I think a short delay can make a spanking more effective, because it gives you time to think about it, accept that it's going to happen, and to let that inevitability really sink in. I do think it takes some time to process the whole thing, so I get what Glen means about not being ready to be spanked.
How about you? Have you been taken by surprise by a spanking? Why was it a surprise? How did you react? Did your disciplinarian seem to enjoy an additional sense of power in taking you by surprise?
I hope you all have a great week. I’m going to continue to enjoy the wonderful Fall colors and maybe do a little additional decorating.
I certainly agree that a little time to think about what is coming next is helpful. I've had a few quiet rides home that gave me a chance to reflect on my behavior that evening. Sometimes Beth would explicitly say that I had a spanking coming, but other times there was no need to say anything at all. Unless I had consumed too much alcohol, the spanking would take place as soon as we got home. She didn't think discipline would be very effective if I was still under the influence, so sometimes it would have to wait until the next morning. Either way, it was no surprise and being spanked mid-morning gave me even more time to think about what was coming.
ReplyDeleteIt's been a while since I misbehaved on a night out - I guess our lifestyle has settled down too much for that. These days it's far more likely for Beth to spank me for not doing my share of the chores. It's procrastination on my part and the question becomes how long she will put up with it before taking action.
I did get a surprise spanking related to chores last year though. It wasn't about procrastination, but rather the quality of my work. I had kitchen cleaning duty before her family came for a visit and apparently it didn't live up to her standards. She told me that she was tired of going behind me to finish the job and would be giving me a reminder for next time. I honestly thought I had done fine, so this truly was a surprise.
I'm sure Beth was stressed out because her mom and a sister would both be there fairly soon. Together, we finished cleaning with an hour to spare, but she was obviously still annoyed with me. Still, I thought I had worked my way back into her good graces and figured by the time her family left, all would be forgotten. I realized how wrong I was about that when she came downstairs with the hairbrush in her hand. I told her that I thought that the punishment was unjustified and poorly timed, but she had no intention of waiting. I thought it best to comply and received a very sound (and unexpected) spanking before my in-laws arrived.
"Unless I had consumed too much alcohol, the spanking would take place as soon as we got home. She didn't think discipline would be very effective if I was still under the influence, so sometimes it would have to wait until the next morning."
DeleteThat's always been our approach, too. I think waiting in that scenario makes sense for all sorts of reasons. First, I agree with Beth that a spanking while still under the influence probably isn't going to be effective. Honestly, I doubt it would really get my attention at all in a positive sense. Second, while I've never not complied when she's said I'm to be spanked, she's never really tried after I've been drinking. I think the chance of non-compliance could definitely go up, while the next day or day after that wouldn't be an issue. Finally, my wife is not particularly good at holding her own alcohol and, frankly, I would have safety concerns about her wielding a paddle if *she* had had even a few drinks. I think it's a common sense safety measure that the disciplinarian needs to be completely sober when a spanking is given.
My wife also gets kind of feverish about cleaning up when guests are coming over. I can see how her intensity in that moment and my more relaxed approach might collide eventually and result in an unforeseen spanking.
The only true surprise spankings here are either for stress relief or the 'just because I felt like spanking you' type. I never know when they may be given. If I miss a chore or perform it poorly, the resulting spanking is not a surprise. Discipline spankings are the same, the time may be unannounced, but I know why I am being spanked. I was spanked for discipline at a friend's home once and that was a complete surprise.
ReplyDeleteThe surprise for me was that the older we got the more immediate the spankings became, until there were some really surprising ones. When we had kids in the home it seemed as if every spanking got delayed. Then when the kids were gone, she threw herself into her career and was too busy or tired to deal with me with much immediacy.
ReplyDeleteBut when we both retired and were together 24/7, she began paying a lot more attention to my (mis)behavior. We had long agreed that immediate consequences were the most effective. What shocked me is that she no longer felt a need to keep our DD private. She began threatening me and even swatting my bum a time or two in front of others to get me to stop some misbehavior.
Then came the shock of my life that I have previously mentioned when she took me upstairs during a party and set me on fire with a hairbrush that could be clearly heard, and then we returned to the party. Now that was a surprise! But I must say that it dramatically improved my behavior out in public because I did not want a repeat of the embarrassment.
She told me she wished she had done it years before. She liked to say, "I'm too old to have to hide that I'm in charge of his ass."
KOJ
Much the same when I was spanked at a friend's home. There were both lifestyle and vanilla folks present. She took me to an adjacent room and bared my ass. We had no implements, so she used the belt off my jeans. Everyone could hear the belting and as you say, returning to the group was quite embarrassing.
Delete"When we had kids in the home it seemed as if every spanking got delayed. Then when the kids were gone, she threw herself into her career and was too busy or tired to deal with me with much immediacy. But when we both retired and were together 24/7, she began paying a lot more attention to my (mis)behavior. We had long agreed that immediate consequences were the most effective. What shocked me is that she no longer felt a need to keep our DD private."
DeleteThat's a pretty accurate summary of our DD journey, except that so far the reduced concern about privacy has played out only in the spanking in front of a window scenario I mentioned in the post. There have been a couple of times when she's made an allusion to spanking in front of others who don't know about the DD aspect of our relationship, but it's been mostly subtle or indirect.
"But I must say that it dramatically improved my behavior out in public because I did not want a repeat of the embarrassment." I feel like sometimes after you experience a particular kink or embarrassing scenario, it loses some of its power. But, I can see how that would *not* be the case with being taken out of a party and spanked when others could overhear. I'm sure for me it would result in the kind of real behavioral change you experienced.
SC, it does seem that the presence of vanillas would completely change the dynamic and make it much more embarrassing.
DeleteWhile I think that being spanked within hearing/view of others is very humiliating and exciting, it brings up a serious problem: consent. The other people, whether in the scene or not, hadn't consented to be part of your DD activities. Hearing or seeing you disciplined might be upsetting to them. It's unfair to have this sort of scene regardless of its potential corrective value.
DeleteI also have a problem with this topic. Spankings aren't surprises. We know that certain behaviiors will get us paddled. Also, the concept of punishing immediately after the offense is probably more for our arousal thinking about it than its true corrective value. We are adults and understand why we're being spanked even if it is days later.
There is a certain aspect of DD that is sexual to us. It's almost certainly why we asked our partners to spank us. Things like "surprise" spankings and getting spanked immediately after being naughty, feeds the sexual side of DD. I don't know about you, but my behavior changes when my spankings make me miserable and I dread getting another. It has nothing to do with timing or if other become aware that I am punished by my wife.
(Getting off soapbox)
I see the "consent" issue as legitimate, though I don't know about "serious problem." In fact, I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I agree that we all should be sensitive and courteous to others. On the other hand, a lot of people today have their sensitivities set awfully high and just kind of live to take offense. There's all sorts of stuff I'm exposed to on a day-to-day basis that I don't like, maybe disagree with or find distasteful. Yet, I've never suffered the slightest real harm from any of it, other than not always having life presented to me the way I prefer it to be.
Delete"Also, the concept of punishing immediately after the offense is probably more for our arousal thinking about it than its true corrective value. We are adults and understand why we're being spanked even if it is days later." This one, I definitely don't agree with. I think immediate spankings inspire *less* arousal, not more, and I don't think it's controversial that, outside the DD context, delayed punishment reduces its effectiveness as a deterrent. So, why should it operate any differently in the DD context? "Understanding" why we are getting spankings seems irrelevant to me in terms of whether immediate is more effective.
(Off mine, too.)
Hi Caged Lion:
DeleteYou do very well on your "soapbox!" I particularly liked your response today in JulieSP's discussion of Putin and his Ukranian invasion. I did not fully agree with your statement, but it is a rare person, like you, who I agree with 80-90%.
I would like to respond to a few of your points in the post above. Unfortunately, the Google Spam Monster seems to particularly dislike me/my-posts, particularly if they are more than a couple paragraphs. (So, I'll try to sneak passed that monster with a series of short posts; with me luck!)
Caged Lion wrote: "I think that being spanked within hearing/view of others . . . brings up a serious problem: consent."
DeleteI fully agree. However, this seems to be an easily resolved situation.
For such a spanking to occur, by true mutual consent between the DD-couple, both people must have previously agreed and consented to the "any place, any time, for any reason" dynamic. Agreed? And during such discipline, the DD-couple would certainly be aware that third parties would become aware of the discipline, right?
So, why not have the wife, with husband standing visible behind her, explain the infracted rule, and her intent-to-discipline, directly to the third parties? Explain to them that the wife does not want them to feel in any way uncomfortable, and then ask if the she should choose a better time?
If a wife wants to truly settle the consent matter, and "ring the husband's bell," this would seem to work both ways. Right?
My turn, again, for the soapbox . . .
DeleteCaged Lion wrote: "[T]he concept of punishing immediately after the offense is probably more for our arousal thinking about it than its true corrective value. We are adults and understand why we're being spanked even if it is days later."
I must disagree with your foundation for these statements, and only partly agree with Dan's characterization as the major effect being "deterrence."
Yes, "deterrence" is an important factor, well recognized for millennia, as expressed in various cultures' renditions of the Anglo phrase "punishment must be 'swift, certain and appropriate'."
However, there is a second reason which I consider more important for the "swift/immediate" factor. In fact, well established science proves it is more important.
The vast majority of human's mental activity occurs on the subconscious level. (Various estimates place this subconscious processing anywhere from 75-95%.) Only humans have that additional relatively large percentages of conscious / executive thought processes; very few animals have any but a small fraction of this.
Psychological science clearly establishes that most learning associated behavior changes ("operand conditioning") occurs on the subconscious level. Psychological science clearly establishes that this is extremely dependent upon proximity in time and space between the behavior and the punishment ("contiguity"); if you delay the punishment more than roughly an hour, the subconscious cannot make the linkage between the two events. (There are advanced ways to bring the subconscious back into the process, for example "directed visualization" of the original circumstances of the infraction.)
For the most effective learning, particularly "emotional learning," it is always best to include the subconscious. Delaying a punishment significantly from the time of infraction diminishes its effectiveness, and thus requires more punishments to achieve the same change in behavior. This is a very well proven scientific fact!
For me this is one of those issues where both points of view carry a lot of merit.
DeleteI tend to agree with Dan on the third-party consensual issue. As a society we have gone way to far worrying about an adult’s “sensitivities” to being exposed to new or even shocking information. Lots of people need to chill out about that. In fact I am not sure it might not in particular do a few husbands ignorant of female led DD some good seeing or hearing) how one wife “takes care of” bad behavior
On the other hand, however, Donn’s suggestion about offering a gracious way to avoid hearing the spanking is not a bad idea. Remembering that in a real “anytime, anywhere “relationship the wife gets to make that decision and her husband despite the overwhelming embarrassment it would bring (to me at least) is obligated to obey her.
As far as the effect of timing on the effectiveness of spanking: Lion may well be right speaking for his own experience but for me the closer the spanking is to the offense, the more impact it has had on my behavior. Incidentally we don’t call or think of them as surprise spankings but “on the spot” spankings. (Because as Lion points out, you usually know well why she is spanking you) A true surprise spanking is one you don’t see coming at all and don’t know why she is spanking you.
These “surprises” did happen a few times early in our relationship but not for a very long time. But while surprise spankings hardly happen, she does use more and more “ on the spot” type spankings and they get the message through every time. My former GF often told me there was a “bum to brain” connection she could activate with her hairbrush. I don’t know about the neurology of any bum to brain connection –but there is a powerful connection between what is happening to your bum and what you did to get in trouble when she acts swiftly
Alan
"Only humans have that additional relatively large percentages of conscious / executive thought processes; very few animals have any but a small fraction of this." This seems more a philosophical belief--one going back at least as far as Descartes--with much of the latest science on cognition and consciousness in animals going the other way. I think the people who don't think animals can have sophisticated executive thought processes have never had a working dog.
Delete"As a society we have gone way too far worrying about an adult’s “sensitivities” to being exposed to new or even shocking information. Lots of people need to chill out about that." Totally agree.
DeleteDan:
DeleteSorry if I wasn't clearer in providing context to my statement re "Only humans have that additional relatively large percentages of conscious / executive thought processes; very few animals have any but a small fraction of this."
Of course, there are many mammals, such as most marine mammals and higher primates, that have "self awareness" and advance levels of executive functioning (e.g., making and use of "tools"). I believe I properly qualified my statement in saying these animals made up a "very few" of all animals.
The basic purpose of the statement was to provide context to the fact that, even for these highest animals, applying "adversives" (punishment) relatively long after the fact, but "explaining" to the animals what the past infraction they are being punished for, is worse than ineffective. It is downright abusive to punish an animal when that animal has no way of making any "subconscious" or "conscious" linkage between cause and effect.
BTW: I have long trained Belgian Shepherds for search and rescue work (~25 years) . I've personally owned four such dogs. I currently own two Malinois, one of which is trained for Urban Search and Rescue (collapsed structures) and certified by USDHS-FEMA at "Dog 1" level. I have been repeatedly amazed by how smart my Tervuren (1) and Malinois (3) have been; amazed at their ability to function almost totally independently of human guidance. (Same applies to Border Collies!) Regardless, I would never "verbally reprimand" (punish) a genius dog more than 2-3 minutes after an infraction; it would be abusive, as even a genius dog could not make correlation to the infraction.
As every successful Malinois owner says, "Once you Mal, you can never go back!"
As every succesful Malinois owner says, "Once you Mal, you can never go back!"
Hi Caged,
DeleteLet me be clear that in every case, I try to respect other people and not put anyone in awkward situations whenever it is avoidable, so this is mostly a thought exercise for me.
“The other people, whether in the scene or not, hadn't consented to be part of your DD activities. Hearing or seeing you disciplined might be upsetting to them. It's unfair to have this sort of scene regardless of its potential corrective value.” – I have very mixed feelings about this. I can think of reasons that others might be upset to hear a spanking taking place, but are these reasons reasonable?
Why might they be upset? Because they don’t like physical punishment? Because of perceived kinkiness? Because DD spanking is in some way sexual? Or maybe because it is just plain awkward to witness a couple arguing or disagreeing?
Physical punishment - I can understand this, since there has been a worldwide move away from physical punishment in many places it was previously commonplace, such as schools, military, prisons, and of course in homes.
Kinkiness – Again, I can see this, with the caveat that what is “normal” and “kinky” varies greatly over time and cultures. Interestingly, only 30 years ago or so, spanking was commonplace in at least some contexts, and all of the current acceptable lifestyles (sexual preference, anything gender related) were not only considered alternative but also quite taboo. So back then, maybe overhearing a spanking wouldn’t have been nearly as big a deal as seeing two guys holding hands?
Sexual – This one I am VERY in the middle. I categorically reject any idea that spanking is in every case sexual, but at the same time agree that in many cases it is sexual for at least one party if not for both; It is pretty hard to claim that prison or military spankings were all sexual in nature (I’m sure some were), and the same is true with school spankings and especially judicial caning in countries like Singapore.
For me, spanking is sexual in most contexts, but that is mostly because I have a fantasy for imposed female authority. Even so, it is much less sexual than actual sex. Last night my wife and I were talking about this. If one of her friends were to spank me, even if I were bare bottomed (unlikely), it would feel ENTIRELY different than if I were to have sex with one of them. In the spanking case, even though spanking is very sexually charged for me, and even though it might be to them as well, it still is much different than actual sex. I guess it is sexual, but kind of Sexual Lite…
As far as it being awkward to witness a couple disagreeing or arguing, at least for me I know it is true that I hate to see anything like that.
In summary for that part, I agree with Dan and Alan that people need to have a bit thicker skin. However, in all things my wife and I try to always be respectful of all and to never offend on purpose, so I am sure that in the unlikely event anything like this happened, she would have great situational awareness to know that it was not going to offend anyone.
“…my behavior changes when my spankings make me miserable and I dread getting another. It has nothing to do with timing or if other become aware that I am punished by my wife.” – again, I kind of agree, but not completely. Dreading getting a spanking can definitely help change my behavior, but mostly for me it is knowing that if something is important enough to my wife that she will spank me for it, it needs to be important to me too, since I love her. Timing or having others know that I am punished will not be the sole determining factors about whether I will learn a lesson or not, but the element of surprise or the embarrassment of others knowing would certainly keep it in my mind a lot longer, so I would be more likely to learn from it.
-ZM
A lot of great stuff in here, ZM.
Delete"Or maybe because it is just plain awkward to witness a couple arguing or disagreeing?" Very true, and this also helps me articulate why I had a very negative initial reaction to the suggestion that a wife might ask the third-parties for their consent before proceeding with a spanking. This seems to me to be dragging them even further into a situation that would probably already make them uncomfortable, i.e. the awkwardness of being present when a couple are arguing. In my view, that would drag them in even more fully as quasi-participants.
"Interestingly, only 30 years ago or so, spanking was commonplace in at least some contexts, and all of the current acceptable lifestyles (sexual preference, anything gender related) were not only considered alternative but also quite taboo." That is an incredibly interesting observation on how taboos change. Going even further back, think about the flogging scene in Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer. There was nothing controversial about being flogged/spanked/whipped in public. It was the racial relations in Twain's books that broke taboos. Interestingly, I went back and read that passage from Tom Sawyer. Tom takes a whipping for his classmate Becky, claiming that he had looked at and damaged a book her teacher kept locked in his desk during class. What was the book about? Human anatomy. What did Becky see and get fixated on? A picture of someone naked. Over the course of about a page, Twain works in looking at nakedness, shame or social approbation of looking at nudity (the teacher covering it up), our titillation of nudity and the power of hiding it (Becky's reaction to it), and then it all gets connected to a whipping. Interesting stuff.
But, to your larger point, is it interesting that 30 or 40 years ago, no one would have thought twice about seeing someone spanked in public, but might have been totally scandalized seeing mixed-race kissing. It would be easy to say that the comfort with public spanking extended only to children, but there are a lot of old movies depicting women being taken over a knee.
Dan wrote: "'. . . a couple arguing or disagreeing?' . . . I had a very negative initial reaction to the suggestion that a wife might ask the third-parties for their consent before proceeding with a spanking. This seems to me to be dragging them even further into a situation that would probably already make them uncomfortable, i.e. the awkwardness of being present when a couple are arguing. In my view, that would drag them in even more fully as quasi-participants."
DeleteI think this very much depends upon the particular circumstances. For Spanked Cowboy's particular incident, there is no evidence that there was any "argument," or similar, to previously make guests uncomfortable. So, the "uncomfortable context" was originally only the corporal punishment that WOULD be overheard (if performed).
Of the three possible situations for the guests (overhearing unwarned CP, prior-knowledge of CP, deferred CP), I personally would hope that a DW would defer the punishment to later, to prevent any guest discomfort. (Regardless if some of us "spankos" might think some people are "oversensitive.")
However, if a DW believes that immediate punishment is important, politely inquiring of the guests as to their "sensibilities" and "feelings" would certainly be more "gracious" and "respectful" of them than simply proceeding with no foreknowledge and total disregard of their feelings.
I would not characterize my "prior-knowledge" option as "ask[ing] the third-parties for their consent" to perform the spanking, but rather a respectful inquiry as to there perspective.
In my personal opinion, when a DW believes there are only two choices, between "overhearing unwarned CP" and "prior-knowledge CP," then regardless of guest sensibilities, "prior-knowledge CP" is the most polite and respectful path forward. Plus, inquiring as to guest sensibilities provides the DW the option to reconsider the option of "deferred CP."
Hi Dan,
DeleteInteresting points about Tom Sawyer. It really does show how much things have changed. As far as the women being spanked in movies and on TV (on shows like I Love Lucy and others), I was actually thinking specifically of this when I wrote my comment.
And Donn,
"So, why not have the wife, with husband standing visible behind her, explain the infracted rule, and her intent-to-discipline, directly to the third parties? Explain to them that the wife does not want them to feel in any way uncomfortable, and then ask if the she should choose a better time?" - Like Dan, I had a pretty negative initial reaction to this. If your wife "does not want them to feel in any way uncomfortable," then I see this as being a huge miss, since I can guarantee I would feel uncomfortable if anyone asked me anything like this!
Sometimes feeling like you need to ask for consent (or trying to determine their perspective if you prefer, though it seems more like getting consent to me) is a great clue that you probably shouldn't do whatever it is you want to get consent for. Like in the office, if you have to ask "is it ok with everyone if I play music without headphones?" you just put everyone in an awkward situation. On the other hand, if you know everyone well enough to know they don't have an issue with music being played out loud, then go ahead. I think the same holds true with things like DD; the only time you might want to ask for consent is if you know it will be freely given. If you have to ask, maybe don't even think of it?
Another reason I would not necessarily want to go the route of implicitly asking for consent is that if you just go ahead and administer the spanking, they may or may not hear it. If you ask for consent, then everyone is guaranteed to know about it. So it may be creating a problem that wouldn't otherwise exist.
Now, having said all this... I can't get the mental image out of my mind of me standing there behind my wife as she calmy explains to people what I have done, how she intends to spank me, and finding out whether they are all good with that! I just cannot imagine the embarrassment I would feel. I am sure I would wish I could just disappear. Ironically, I am pretty sure that if she ever did anything like this, there would be no need to proceed with spanking me, since I would have already learned a huge lesson from it!
-ZM
"Sometimes feeling like you need to ask for consent (or trying to determine their perspective if you prefer, though it seems more like getting consent to me) is a great clue that you probably shouldn't do whatever it is you want to get consent for."
DeleteLOL! Hadn't thought of that, but so true!
Dan and ZM:
DeleteI totally agree with everything you've said above.
However, just to remind everyone, we were considering a SPECIFIC SITUATION with Spanked Cowboy, and Lion's inclusion of a FACT that the CP would be overheard by vanilla guests. That specific situation was the basis for my "inquire of guests as to their feelings" suggestion.
I totally agree that the best solution when something WILL be overheard by vanilla guests is to NOT SPANK! But that was NOT an option in that situation, as presented by Cowboy and Lion, correct? The spanking was going to occur! (In fact, that spanking DID occur.)
So, maybe we should add a another option for the wife: (1) "overheard spanking heard by guests as 'surprise';" (2) "overheard spanking with 'consent' to spanking;" (3) "overheard spanking with 'forewarning';" (4) "no overhearing because no spanking."
Since option #4 is not an option for our posited situation, maybe #3 is the best solution: The wife simply informs the vanilla guests of the infraction, that she has to go "thrash" her husband because of his misbehavior, and apologizes to the guests for the couple's temporary absence? Frankly, with #4 unavailable, I personally think #3 works best of all.
Other "hypothetical" situations, where the guests might not hear anything, would certainly require further analysis.
ner
If #4 were an option, I'm with ZM that it's probably the most appropriate. If not, I'm going with #1. I still maintain #2 and #3 increase the discomfort of the *guests* not the offender. Also, there's just a plausibility element I can't get over. I can see #1 happening in real life, and it has in fact happened to two of our commenters. It's hard for me to see #2 or #3 ever happening. But, then Donn has never invited me to a party at his house. :-)
DeleteBTW, Don and Lion, I knew I should have ignored your reference to arguing with Strict Julie about Ukraine, but ultimately I couldn't resist taking a look. I applaud you for the good efforts, but ultimately arguing with her is like trying to nail jello to wall. I finally gave up back during her vaccine denial and "Trump won" stage.
Dan:
DeleteJust for laughs, you might want to revisit that conversation late tomorrow afternoon.
I posted a long analysis and truthful explanation on her "Zelelnskyy said NATO should preemptively strike Russia with tactical nuclear weapons" claim. Basically, I "nailed her" with the facts! (Should be interesting to watch how she weasels around the facts in that case.)
I wholly agree, and have stated repeatedly: #4 is always the best choice.
DeleteI guarantee, it won't matter. She'll either (a) pivot to a different argument, or (b) resort to name-calling like "all you war mongers." She's like this kid who over-learned the lessons in her high school debate class.
DeleteYes, Dan, those are certainly her standard retorts and techniques.
DeleteBut I must agree about "over-learning" lessons from formal "debate education."
Such "ad hominem" attacks like "war mongers" is the opposite of what is approved and acceptable in formal forensics. "Ad hominem" attacks are much more consistent with the "radical fringes," politicians and their supporters on both far Left and far Right. (We already know which end Julie is on.)
Her dumbest argument on Ukraine is this whole, "NATO agreed not to move eastward" thing. Yes, in discussions with Gorbachev about reunification of Germany, there were representations made that NATO had no intention of moving closer to the USSR's borders. But, that distinction--Russia versus USSR--is critical. The USSR existed and the representations were made to its leader. Fast forward to December of 1991, and the USSR falls apart. The former members didn't instantly flock to NATO and NATO didn't recruit them. It happened instead over the coming years after Putin took power and it became clear that he was reversing Gorbachev and Yeltsin's policies of letting the former USSR nations choose their own way including making their own alliances. Further, the representations to the USSR were made as part of ongoing discussions about the future of a united Germany. There was no formal commitment, like a treaty.
DeleteBut, you know what was a formal, binding commitment? Russia, in the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, guaranteed Ukraine's security and territorial integrity in return for Ukraine handing over its nukes to Russia. At the time, Ukraine had the third largest cache of nuclear weapons in the world. It was arguably a huge blunder on Ukraine's part (one we fully, unfortunately, supported at the time), given subsequent events. Does anyone believe that Russia would have invaded its neighbor in 2022, or taken Crimea in 1994, were Ukraine still a nuclear armed nation?
Dan: As you correctly recall, that "informal promise" made to the Soviet Union was specifically about NATO not moving forward or closer to the Warsaw Pact borders by "repositioning" troops and weapons from West Germany into the newly integrating East German territories.
DeleteIt was NEVER a promise regarding whether other ex-Warsaw-Pact countries might need "security guarantees" against future Soviet/Russian aggression. In fact, at that time, there was no evidence that the Soviets would loose control of all those "satellite countries" the Soviets had occupied and abused for so many decades.
Final comment on Spanked Julie, and then I'm going to try to put her "politics" and "propagandizing" out of my life, forever. )This might be useful to others who care to engage with her methods.)
DeleteI have noticed that Julie NEVER approved a comment for posting until AFTER she has written her own pseudo-response/rebuttal. She will NEVER allow a comment, especially a challenge to her own statements and assertions to stand on its own, and be evaluated on its own by her blog readers, without "claiming/demanding" the "last word(s)" on that matter!
I hadn't noticed that, though I don't doubt it's true. She's definitely pretty heavy-handed with deleting or refusing to post comments she doesn't like, for someone who's always droning on about "cancel culture." Though, at the same time she revels in letting all sorts of absolutely inane drivel on, as long as it either (a) supports her political point, or (b) flatters or flirts with her. Of course, maybe I'm just jealous. Nobody flirts with ME on here. :-)
DeleteJulie is a good example of people who FIRST decide what they think or believe (often for psychological reasons), then spend their time scurrying around feverishly collecting “facts” to rationally support a position that was irrationally reached in the first place. Few of us are truly open minded on major issues or really open to opposing views.. But she is a cautionary tale about how one can really go off the rails arguing the inarguable.
DeleteIt undoubtedly would be a nicer world if we could really disagree with open minds and egos under control. What makes her somewhat interesting is that she appears to be both strikingly intelligent and very hard working - and of course when she was in her dom phase she produced some of the hottest F/M writing around.
Alan.
Alan, I love that first line. That's exactly it.
DeleteA surprise spanking sounds delightful. I have a theory that to make the surprise initiation of the spanking more likely, the wife would typically need to be highly comfortable with the couple's typical spanking routine to give her confidence that the spanking is being done the right way. She might even want to verbally hear from her husband that the spanking she has gotten used to giving can be inflicted on him without warning or permission. What do you all think?
ReplyDeleteIn agreement. At the beginning or our 24/7, FLR it was stated, and I agreed that she has the authority to spank at anytime, anyplace and for any or no reason. I cannot contest her decision and must accept the spanking.
DeleteI'm all for reaching those kind of understanding upfront. I do think that the "for any reason" thing can be harder to take in practice than the fantasy suggests, but I do still think it can be a very helpful grant of upfront permission if you can navigate the consequences successfully.
DeleteI've given husband a few "surprise" spankings. It's happened mostly when I've caught him in the act doing something I don't permit, like pornography. I have to admit the rush when I speak to him sharply as I demand he explain himself, keep interrupting him as he fumbles and trips over himself, then order him to get dressed and bring me the hairbrush, bath brush, Brown Spanking Paddle or tawse.is a pleasurable sensation. I get so full of myself as I assert My Authority. I keep the feeling of power and Authority up as I lift up his slip and roughly pull down his panties while I continue to scold him. Then I sharply order him across my lap or over the sofa (when I've decreed the tawse).
ReplyDeleteI do spank harder when it's on the spot Discipline. I don't know if it's the rush that makes me like that, but it's a prime suspect.. On the spot spankings do provide some variety, too, since I have to usually schedule Discipline because of our busy careers. For me, they're a nice change.
Hi Cecilia. "I do spank harder when it's on the spot Discipline. I don't know if it's the rush that makes me like that, but it's a prime suspect." I hadn't thought about that angle, but it makes perfect sense. Especially if there was some real anger connected to the behavior.
DeleteHello Dan, my wife is picking up her confidence surrounding DD monthly. We were away for a family function this month. We were driving in the car and she was annoyed at me for a multitude of things. Her response was, if we were at the hotel now, I’d whip that bottom raw with my belt. I could feel myself get flushed and apologized for my actions. Although a spanking didn’t come immediately due to time restraints, she didn’t forget and spanked me in the morning a few days later. The surprise spanking was not as hard as others. She did say wait till we get home. We did have family in adjacent hotel rooms. A few days later, we had a few family members over and I raised my voice. We were both stressed about a few things and she firmly told me to lower my voice. I was not yelling but understood immediately what she meant. We had a conversation about our upbringing and she was punished the same ways as I and regrets part of her child hood. I thought this would affect our DD and she stated absolutely not. I’m not the one getting spanked. I actually enjoy whipping you. I confirmed my need to be spanked severely by her moving forward. This was probably one of the more intimate conversations we have had surrounding DD. I told her the perfect time to have whipped me was when I raised my voice. The minute family left, you should of beat me. I never truly expected myself to come out and say that. I was actually proud of myself being an alpha type to admit my wrong doings. I am aiming to be a better man. I told her I needed this from her. I was definitely worried given her past. I admire my wife for growing into this roll and I love her for it.
ReplyDeleteT
Hi T. "We had a conversation about our upbringing and she was punished the same ways as I and regrets part of her child hood. I thought this would affect our DD and she stated absolutely not. I’m not the one getting spanked. I actually enjoy whipping you."
DeleteWhenever we've explored these family origin issues here on the blog, I'm struck at how *little* correlation there seems to be between how much discipline/punishment someone was subject to from their parents and how much they want DD, or are OK delivering it, as an adult. Some are subject to rigorous discipline as kids and miss it as adults; some go in the opposite direction. Others receive little exposure to spankings as kids but crave it as adults.
I also think it's a mistake to over-simplify and assume there is some simple cause-and-effect mechanism between what we experience as kids and what we want as adults. Context matters. We're also just incredibly complex blends of mental processes and emotional process, and we can also impose our own will and judgments on our "natural" reactions.
Years ago, there was a female commenter here named Holly. She was a second generation F/m disciplinarian. Something I found very interesting about her origin story was that her initial reaction to her mother's discipline of her father (and she and her siblings) was to reject it for her own marriage, despite her mother's urgings. She thought her mother spanked too often. Later, as she got more annoyed with her husband's behavior, which she said sometimes mirrored bad aspects of her father's behavior, she changed her mind and began spanking her husband with straps, similar to what her mother had done. Ultimately, she enthusiastically embraced the role.
I guess what I'm saying is, your wife being OK with disciplining you even though she regrets some aspects of her own discipline as a child doesn't really surprise me.
I got a surprised spanking several months ago when I tried to take away her authority by telling not to do something she had already decided on. I should have known by the look she gave me and THE "It's none of your business" retort but I missed the clues and went bed. After she finished her call she yanked me out of bed and paddled me harder than ever. I was sore for the better part of a week. We are new to our FLR and DD. I am still learning that I no longer make decisions for her
ReplyDeleteDan, that is a great take on the topic. I thought she was would be totally turned off by the role, given her circumstances as a child. To your point, I miss the rigorous discipline I received as a child. I knew the consequences of bad actions. I’m glad my wife has taking the time to understand my needs. DD has improved my well being, but also my affection for her has increased ten fold. The story about Holly is interesting. She shot down beating her husband because she felt it too severe. Then later on realized how much it worked. I received a surprise spanking last night. We went out yesterday afternoon and I once again apologized for raising my voice when family was there. I felt sorry because of how her ex use to treat her. He was always yelling. Although I did not yell, I did raise my voice. My wife accepted the apology and told me when we got home, she would thrash my bottom but good as a reminder. We arrived home and she told me to wait upstairs. She grabbed the dreaded wooden spoon. I dropped my pants and she went to town on my bare bottom. I’m still red and very sore this morning. I did not enjoy the spanking at all but appreciate the fact my wife took the time to correct me.
ReplyDeleteT
"I thought she was would be totally turned off by the role, given her circumstances as a child. To your point, I miss the rigorous discipline I received as a child. I knew the consequences of bad actions."
DeleteIt definitely is interesting how variable the cause and effect chains are with this stuff. You miss rigorous discipline from childhood. I feel like if I would have experienced more discipline as a kid, I might not want it as much now. I wonder if there is such a thing as a "sweet spot" for parental discipline. If we get it, we may want to experience it again in later life. If we don't, we crave it because we didn't get enough of it. If we got too much of it, we may not want it ourselves as adults, but our previous exposure makes us more comfortable with it in principle and OK with imposing it on others.
Regarding Holly, I don't think her problem was so much severity as frequency. She commented at one point that after she took up the strap, she spanked harder than her mother ever did. I think she thought her mother spanked too often for more trivial things. I also suspect there was just some of the typical mother-daughter dynamic going on at first, with a fairly controlling mother trying to tell her daughter how to manage a marriage, and her adult daughter rebelling about being told what to do.
Apologies are interesting where DD is concerned. There are times I think my wife does agree that I really am sorry about some bit of bad behavior. But, the fact that my contrition is real isn't going to get me out of being spanked for it.
“… the fact that my contrition is real isn't going to get me out of being spanked for it.”
DeleteA while ago there was a female contributor who said something similar to this to the effect that she appreciated her husband’s contrition but would still administer the punishment. At the time I remember feeling that was a little harsh since she had already achieved his remorse and presumably intent to not repeat the behavior. Why add more pain to the pain he was already feeling?
But since then, I have come to see the importance for both husband and wife of completing a punishment even if that true contrition is present. For her there is liable to still be some hurt there and even anger she needs to work out. She also may feel the need to teach or re-teach a lesson she wants no confusion about. For him, there is liable to be feeling of guilt as well as the need to feel the issue is really settled between them. For both there is also the importance of consistency and follow through.
Even a ‘nominal” punishment spanking after true contrition is reached can bring closure to all that. She makes her point and he gets the point.
Alan
Alan, I don't remember the exact comment you're talking about, but I get your initial reaction that it might seem harsh. For all the reasons you mention, I agree it still often makes sense even if it is kind of harsh, or can seem so.
DeleteParadoxically, it's probably when I'm most contrite that I'm also probably most in agreement that a spanking *should* happen. So much of my internal drive for DD is bound up in the need for accountability, especially when I know I've done something wrong. Also, on those rare occasions when I know I deserve a spanking yet avoid one, there's always a dim sense of guilt and disappointment that I evaded the accountability I knew I had coming.
One analogy might be to confession in the Catholic church. Accepting responsibility and being sincerely sorry is part of the process, but so is penance. Now, the form that penance often takes in the church setting (saying rote prayers), seems kind of silly, the principle of penance on top of contrition seems sound in reinforcing that the behavior should not happen again.
“the principle of penance on top of contrition seems sound in reinforcing that the behavior should not happen again.”
DeleteI had not thought about the Catholic practice of linking contrition to a subsequent penance. I suspect, but don’t know that back in the murky mists of theological time, the now formulaic rote prayer penances grew out of much more serious and probably corporal punishments (maybe there is a church scholar around who might know that history) But in any case the linkage does make sense in a modern female led DD relationship ( and probably any DD relationship
Alan
Hi Alan, I am certainly not a church scholar, or even remotely close, but I do know that corporal punishments have played a significant role in church history. To read about it, you can look at the Wikipedia page for "flagellant" as a starting point. I was looking for something I read a few years back about some festival or something like in Hungary or Romania, where they flog the people with stinging nettles. I can assure you that stinging nettles hurt a lot! They leave you absolutely on fire for hours, but after 6 or 7 hours, the effect wears off completely (except for those few who are allergic to them of course) and there is no sign of anything ever having been done. For a tame - almost funny - video of this, look at "urtification with stinging nettles on YouTube.
Delete-ZM
HI ZM and good to hear from you,
DeleteThat is all very interesting. I have read some about the flagellants and believe that particular practice was a not uncommon part of life in some medieval monastic orders.
It seems to me that historically religion has been pretty good at creating guilt feelings while corporal punishment even today is pretty good at alleviating them.
I have never looked to religion to supply guilt as my own behavior especially at home has always produced all I need. But for those folks with religious conflicts, maybe a good spanking or two would work fine.
Alan
I think if there’s a relationship at all between contrition and punishment, it’s inverse. I had a situation last week where the bottom line was that what I said and did really upset her, although she was not directly involved - it was related to kids and grand kids. She’s suffering from a really nasty cold at the moment so it’s on hold, but there’s a punishment coming my way when she feels better. Here’s the thing though, she was prepared to see this as outside the scope of our marriage DD and move on. I’m feeling really bad about it and have said that I need the punishment to “wash it away” and move past it myself. So contrition and punishment go hand in hand here. Conversely, I think if I didn’t feel bad about it and she insisted on punishing me, I can’t imagine refusing it, but I think my reaction would be (inner) anger at being - what I would think was - unreasonably punished, rather than the feeling that I screwed up, it’s been dealt with and we can move on. The other point here is that my bad feeling and need to be punished has nothing to do with the situation itself, I still believe I was right although there was a solution that would have satisfied everyone that I didn’t think of till too late. My bad feeling is purely because I upset her, not about the content. TG
Delete"It seems to me that historically religion has been pretty good at creating guilt feelings while corporal punishment even today is pretty good at alleviating them.
DeleteI have never looked to religion to supply guilt as my own behavior especially at home has always produced all I need."
Very well said!
"Here’s the thing though, she was prepared to see this as outside the scope of our marriage DD and move on. I’m feeling really bad about it and have said that I need the punishment to “wash it away” and move past it myself. So contrition and punishment go hand in hand here. Conversely, I think if I didn’t feel bad about it and she insisted on punishing me, I can’t imagine refusing it, but I think my reaction would be (inner) anger at being - what I would think was - unreasonably punished, rather than the feeling that I screwed up, it’s been dealt with and we can move on."
DeleteI totally get this. The part about being upset not about the content but because it upset her is, I admit, not really part of my make up. If she gets mad because of something and I think the upset is more about her than about me, I'm very unlikely to feel guilty about that.
I have a different perspective on TG's situation with punishment for events outside the relationship that did not in any way effect the relationship.
DeleteI see such situations as part of the continuum of Disciplinary Wives expanding their powers. Most DW's begin with specific rules and behavior in the home and between the couple. These are then extended to respect and consideration for the wife's feelings. Later, these are extended to the wife's power of correction of the husband's moods. Often in parallel with this power extension, the wife starts controlling husband's interactions with "third parties" when in the wife's presence. Continuing further, the wife extends her power to situations where the husband's interactions with third parties that might "somehow" effect the wife's feeling. (Somewhere in this "power progression," the couple will have adopted the "wife can 'discipline anytime, anywhere for any reason' dynamic."
It seems to be a logical extension that some wives will extend their "supervision" and "husband improvement plan / training" outside the home into situations that will never have any direct effect upon a wife and her feelings. It is simply what is best of the husband!
My own relationship his this last dynamic. I'm expected to treat all people, wherever and whenever we might interact, with supreme honesty, courtesy and respect. That is what my wife requested and that is the promise I made her. The second part of that promise was an extension of my earliest two promises: (1) I would never intentionally try to "induce" punishment for punishments stake; and (2) I would always report all of my infractions to her at her earliest convenience. Part #2 has always been the hardest. Part #2 is also the most common reason I might receive "surprise"/"on-the-spot" corporal punishment.)
In strong sense, if I engage in such third party misconduct outside our home, and then report it to my wife, I HAVE CAUSED HER INJURY BECAUSE I HAVE BROKEN MY PROMISES TO HER REGARDING MY DUTIES TO ALL OTHER PEOPLE. She should certainly be upset and even "injured" to learn of my breach of my promises to her.
Boy, oh boy, is it hard to admit to her such misconduct that she would likely never, ever learn about without my confessions. Especially knowing she is such a strong believer in strong immediate discipline being most effective!
Donn, that’s a very interesting set of observations. In a sense my experience parallels that, but in another way it’s very different. We have a marriage that is absolutely fantastic - we’re both second time around so when I say that I actually have something to compare it to. We have been married over twenty years and introduced DD very early in our relationship. We’ve always said that one of the reasons for our strength was that when there was a conflict or problem, the paddle or cane came out, we dealt with it and moved on. We never had the festering issues hanging over us the way that many people do. You’re absolutely right about establishing rules early on (late credit card payments, speeding tickets and so on) Although the first ever punishment was for an unnecessary and upsetting remark I made. Where I differ from you is that over the years she has been less likely to impose discipline while I have felt more in need of it. There was one occasion which I think I have mentioned before when I did something stupid and dangerous when driving, I was on my own and fortunately there was no actual accident and no cops around to see it, so there was no way she would ever have known about it. I told her about it and requested a punishment for it, which I got. I think there’s only been one occasion this year when she has chosen to punish me and that was for an uncharacteristic loss of temper. All other discipline - including the one pending now - has been triggered by me rather than her. So in summary, yes - I see a similar pattern to you in some ways but it’s driven by me and not her. She knows she has the authority and power when she chooses to use it and rarely feels the need to do so. TG
DeleteHello again, I guess that old saying about be careful what you wish for is coming to fruition. My wife and I took a family member out to dinner last night. A sore subject was brought up and I stated my opinion on the subject a bit loudly. My wife gave me that look. I was a bit fired up on the topic. The other night on this blog, I basically told my wife moving forward, to spank me when I raise my voice. This is something that I need to learn to control. This also brings my wife back to her childhood and the verbal loudness that her parents portrayed on her. Instead of shutting down, like she normally would, I’ve asked her to punish me each and every time I raise my voice moving forward. I should say this is not screaming or yelling on my part and acting a fool. This is a bit of my hot headed attitude on certain topics that I won’t address on the blog. This afternoon I arrived home after an outing with the boys. My wife looked at me with that dreaded look and I knew I was in trouble. She told me she won’t tolerate me raising my voice and there are rational ways to address topics. I apologized to her and stated I am working on it. Now, I definitely did not want a beating. My wife wore my bottom out with the spoon a day ago and I was still sore. She looked at me and said apparently you did not learn anything the other night. Dan, I tried to weasel my way out, but she would have none of it. She told me to remove my belt, drop my pants and underwear and bend over. She actually told me I can’t be responsible for the whipping your about to get. My wife tore into my bare bottom with vigor. The strapping I received on an already sore bottom was brutal. I was sweating and on the verge of tearing up. She asked if I had learned a lesson and I told her I did. She continued for a bit more and told me to get up. She then looked at me and said your bottom will continue to pay the price for your mouth. You will learn one way or another. I told her I was sorry and she said we will see.
ReplyDeleteI have a funny feeling you will be in this position again this week. Once again Dan, be careful what you wish for.
T
T., when commenters tell me these "I got what I asked for" stories, I never know whether to congratulate or commiserate!
DeleteNot raising my voice a bit, or getting very animated, when discussing some subjects (including but not limited to pretty much any political issue), would be very difficult for me.
There have been some surprises. A few times when Ann hasn’t said anything until I got home, then she called me to her. She undid my pants, pulled them down, pulled down my underwear and spanked me until I was crying. She had a wooden spoon or paddle concealed on her chair, waiting for me.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could say I never repeated the offense, but it was months!! Those unexpected spankings were effective!
Currently, I’ve gone a few weeks without a spanking, but that will change this week. I messed up, first not meeting a goal for for maintenance on Saturday and then leaving my coffee mug in the bathroom this morning. I will be spanked on Monday and Tuesday.
Problem is, typically when I mess up like this, I mess up more!! I could easily end up with a couple more spankings this week!! Why do we ask for this???
DWC Fred wrote: “Why do we ask for this???”
DeleteYour wife seems particularly strict with you but I am guessing she knows the level of discipline you need and you probably agree with that most of the time. As far as your question about why, you probably know the answer to that: we need it and we know we need it and we also know our wives ( or girlfriends) also know we need it -sometimes even better than we do.
Alan
"Problem is, typically when I mess up like this, I mess up more!!"
DeleteThat definitely resonates with me. My behavior tends to be very cyclical, with lots of things improving at once or lots of things degenerating at once.
Wouldn’t you know! I left a handkerchief on the couch in the family room. Leaving clothes there earns me two spankings. So it will be Monday, Tuesday, Friday, Monday. Thank goodness for commitments or it would have been every day this week except Thursday. The last time we had a schedule like that (7 years ago) I was crying when I pulled down my underwear on Wednesday.
DeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteJust now getting around to commenting on the “surprise spanking” topic.
Probably almost never is a real spanking a complete surprise, particularly if it is for breaking a known rule. However, there is always room for interpretation of whether you broke a rule or not, and the judgement aspect of it is even more true when it comes to bad attitudes or things like that which are more subjective. But I think what you were trying to get at with “surprise” was something like Miss Cecilia referred to as “on the spot.”
I am typically punished either for bad attitudes, treating others poorly, or more frequently than anything, for missing weekly check-in goals. Weekly check-ins, and any punishment that might flow out of them, have no element of surprise. I already know if I have hit all the goals or not, and we only do the check-ins when we are alone, so I know that if a punishment is coming, it will be right after the check-in.
For things like bad attitude or treating others poorly or other more subjective behaviors like that, usually my wife will tell me that I have a spanking coming, and inevitably it will be several days until an opportunity presents itself at the same time as her being in the mood to administer the punishment. I guess there is a certain element of surprise when she tells me we have some business to take care of and to go to our room, but it is certainly not a total surprise, since in every case she has told me it was coming in the days leading up to it. Quite frankly, probably the bigger surprise is that it is actually happening at all, since quite often punishments that are postponed in the end turn out to be cancelled.
The closest to a real surprise spanking happened a few years ago, which I recounted recently. My wife found something left by a previous girlfriend, and called me near the end of the day when I was at work. I was in a meeting and happily got up to take her call, and she was very mad and told me I was going to get it when I got home. As I recall, she didn’t tell me what she was mad about until I got home, but she remembers that she did tell me. In any case, I instantly had butterflies in my stomach which persisted until I got home. I really couldn’t think about anything else. Even in this case, the time between her finding the thing and the time she actually spanked me was probably a couple of hours, so still far from immediate.
What has happened many times, in fact just a few minutes ago, is my wife surprising me dressed in something edgy, sometimes doing roleplay, and giving me play spankings. These spankings often are just as hard or even harder than punishment spankings, but because they are not tied to actual misdeeds, they have virtually no psychological impact, even though they are often a total surprise.
What has not happened, at least that I can remember, is me doing or saying something that makes my wife upset or irritated and her immediately telling me to go to our room or go get a paddle or anything like that. Perhaps if we get back to empty nester status again, that will happen sometime. Interestingly, about the only thing I remember from childhood spankings (and even then just a couple) was the feeling when I crossed a line and I was told I was going to be spanked. I don’t remember the spankings, but just the huge panic of “this is happening now.” The fact that I can remember that feeling, but not the actual spankings, tells me that at least for me, this element of surprise is pretty huge. I am pretty sure that if my wife ever does do something like this, it will make a huge impact.
-ZM
Hi ZM. Better late than never. :-)
Delete"But I think what you were trying to get at with “surprise” was something like Miss Cecilia referred to as “on the spot.”" This topic came directly from Glen, and I think he was getting more at surprises than "on the spot" since his examples included spankings he got when he knew the behavior deserved punishment, but he thought he had gotten away with it. More like your observation that sometimes the real surprise is when a deserved one actually does happen, since long delays often lead to cancellation.
"About the only thing I remember from childhood spankings (and even then just a couple) was the feeling when I crossed a line and I was told I was going to be spanked. I don’t remember the spankings, but just the huge panic of “this is happening now.” The fact that I can remember that feeling, but not the actual spankings, tells me that at least for me, this element of surprise is pretty huge."
That really resonates with me, though I don't know whether it was the "surprise" or the "inevitability" that hit me me so hard. For me, it was more like, "This is going to happen and there is no way for me to wiggle out of it."
Good point on the inevitability. As a child, there was actual inevitability, unless you could talk your way out of it, since your parents were bigger and stronger than you and were holding all the cards. As an adult, everything is different in significant ways; I can physically overpower my wife or pretty much anyone else. And also, if I truly don't consent to something, I may not be able to stop it at the time - for example if I were restrained - but I still have legal and other recourse. Having said all that, the idea of inevitability still plays VERY strongly in my thoughts, desires, and fantasies.
Delete"This is going to happen and there is no way for me to wiggle out of it." - For those of us who spend our life almost always dodging bullets, it comes as kind of a jolting shock whenever we somehow don't manage to dodge one. It turns out that "almost always" is quite a bit different than always... :-)
-ZM
"For those of us who spend our life almost always dodging bullets, it comes as kind of a jolting shock whenever we somehow don't manage to dodge one. It turns out that "almost always" is quite a bit different than always... :-)"
DeleteI feel like my entire career was kind of like that.
Hi Fred,
ReplyDelete"There have been some surprises. A few times when Ann hasn’t said anything until I got home, then she called me to her. She undid my pants, pulled them down, pulled down my underwear and spanked me until I was crying." - This made me wonder if the element of surprise in a situation like this might make me more likely to cry. Considering that crying generally happens only after emotional barriers are removed, if a spanking happened in an impromptu manner, and if she was clearly hurt by my behavior, maybe I wouldn't have time to fully erect the emotional walls that normally prevent me from crying? I think these emotional barriers are pretty strong, so it takes something more than physical pain to break them down; There are limits to how much physical pain can be caused without causing actual - and potentially lasting - physical damage.
But embarrassment works just as well if not better than physical pain in breaking down emotional barriers. That is probably a big part of what keeps drawing me back to the idea of witnesses, since I think the whole psychological "pain" caused by the intense embarrassment would perhaps even be more impactful than any physical pain. This could result in a huge feeling of catharsis. Ironically, if we did have a witness or two it would make me much more likely to cry because of the embarrassment, but it would also be the one time I would NOT want to cry, because there are witnesses and crying would be even more embarrassing!
On a somewhat but not totally related note, does anyone know whether just embarrassment can cause someone to cry? I was talking to my wife about something a few days ago and I speculated that if this hypothetical thing happened, probably the embarrassment of it would cause me to cry. So now, of course I am wondering if that is even possible?
-ZM
"This made me wonder if the element of surprise in a situation like this might make me more likely to cry. Considering that crying generally happens only after emotional barriers are removed, if a spanking happened in an impromptu manner, and if she was clearly hurt by my behavior, maybe I wouldn't have time to fully erect the emotional walls that normally prevent me from crying?"
DeleteIt's certainly possible. I often think of that period of anticipation is one in which you mull over what got you there and accept your fate, but maybe it actually works the opposite when it comes to crying.
Yes, ZM, I do have personal experience with "embarrassment," entirely by itself, leading to "crying."
DeleteWhen I was much younger (as a child, teenager, and in my early twenties) I was sometimes called upon to explain parts of my early life. (Parts of my early life were quite abusive, some physically, but mostly psychologically and psycho-sexually.) Because of some of my parents' social status and power, I was never believed when I sought help.
Even though I later tried to never mention these events, it was very hard to "cover-up" some of the resulting "life interaction" problems I had to face and overcome. My explaining these "challenges" I found to be very embarrassing! I would often start to "tear-up" and have to stop and actually leave the environment to regain control. (This was NOT from remembering the actual experiences. It was from embarrassment at explaining the resultant difficulties and the challenges in restoration.)
While I would try
In a DD context, with a DW present, I suspect that extreme embarrassment would have a similar effect on me.
DeleteI tend to "emotionally release" to my wife when she strongly asserts herself in that DW role. My psychological defenses a greatly diminished when she takes control. That is why, I suspect, if my wife were present and displaying her authority in the DW role, I would cry from strongly embarrassing situations.
I kind of expect this too, but haven't yet experienced it in this context at least. Emotions obviously can easily result in tears. For me, when I recount painful things in my past, it is not so much embarrassment about how poorly I handled things, either because I lack sufficient humility and self-awareness, or perhaps because I am arrogant enough that I assume anyone else would have handled things at least as badly. Hahaha, But the painful feelings of those experiences can cause me to make it to tears.
DeleteI am kind of assuming embarrassment in a DD context could also lead me to tears, but I am just speculating at this point.
-ZM
The surprise definitely had an emotional impact. It is devastating to be called and told, “Come here, you did X and you’re getting a spanking!” It doesn’t happen as often as I wish, but I’m glad it doesn’t. With no preparation my bottom hurts more, I’m more embarrassed at my wife pulling down my pants and underwear. Everything is extra!!
ReplyDeleteI’m pretty sure sure that the extra embarrassment comes from the surprise, but I can only guess that it seems to hurt more when it is a surprise because I have no chance to prepare. I don’t know if that’s a thing.
What I do know for sure is that I am getting a spanking today and tomorrow. Today because I failed to meet a deadline, and tomorrow because I left my coffee mug in my bathroom. I asked for it, but I do not want it to happen.
I'd be getting spanked every day if I got it for misplaced coffee mugs. I'm constantly searching the house for mine.
DeleteFred,
DeleteStill wondering if this level of discipline gets result for you or her or both of you. Like Dan implies, if I was spanked for forgetting some every day item like my watch or a mug of some kind or other every days sorts of peccadilloes. I would be over her lap constantly. Its not a situation I would welcome, but if she decided to impose that kind of stringency I just wonder : does it work for you?
Alan
It does work. It’s been over a year since I left a glass or a mug somewhere. But then, I had previously been getting two spankings every time for a while.
DeleteI’m worse at forgetting to pick up my socks or handkerchiefs from the family room floor. I still get two spankings every time that happens. It has been almost a month since I transgressed.
Ann has branched out and begun spanking for lack of communication. And taking more initiative changed our routine. I now have to strip to the white briefs she makes me wear, get things ready, then walk through the house and tell her I’m ready. Then I have to ask her to spank me. Talk about power exchange! I’m in the room of her choice, wearing only the underwear she told me to wear, asking her to come punish me. Sometimes we go straight back and get to it, sometimes she makes me wait against the wall, and a few times she’s taken the power further and pulled my shorts down herself.
It works for us.
Your comment is a good example of the paradoxical nature of being in a DD relationship. I often know I need a spanking, but dreading it actually happening. I have never experienced a surprise spanking, but imagine it would be exciting, as it fully demonstrates the woman's authority. The only thing close to it was when I thought she had forgotten to follow through, but she sent me a text to remind me. What was going to be a maintenance spanking turned into a much more intense one. There was some comments about the sexual nature of spanking, and for me, it is equally as important as sex. Submitting to be spanked often makes me feel more vulnerable than having sex. Also, at this late stage of life, it is far more reliable.
ReplyDelete"Submitting to be spanked often makes me feel more vulnerable than having sex." - Definitely agree. It is the same way for me. And afterwards, I just have such a close bonding moment with her, which is in many ways stronger than the feelings during or after intercourse.
Delete-ZM
I think I have related this before. My former G.F. once told me ( several times I think) that " spanking was more intimate than sex". I don't think that is true for every spanking but the feelings released and the emotions felt during some spankings have definitely gone deeper than sex alone can.
DeleteAlan
I would perhaps combine all three of your comments and say that for me, spanking can be more intimate for me than sex precisely because there is a vulnerability to it that I don't feel with sex alone. Also, like ZM, for me the intimacy is really something I feel *after* the spanking.
DeleteWhere I think I'm different from someone with a true spanking fetish is that, while spanking definitely has a sexual/erotic component, for me they aren't the same thing. I recall in Jillian Keenan's book, Sex With Shakespeare, she says that for her, spanking IS sex. It is her preferred form of sex. They are inextricably intertwined. It's definitely not at that level for me. If I were forced to choose between sex and spanking, sex wins every time, hands down. Ultimately, I could walk away from DD and spanking, but not from sex.
As I’ve written here before, when I’m standing, crying, hugging Ann with my underwear around my ankles I feel so incredibly close to her. I had to be really open and vulnerable to tell her what I needed. I had to give her the power by cooperating and taking the spanking. She has reacted with love to do what I need and get beyond her comfort zone. She certainly has me out of mine at the moment!
Delete"I had to be really open and vulnerable to tell her what I needed. I had to give her the power by cooperating and taking the spanking. She has reacted with love to do what I need and get beyond her comfort zone." I think this is something that people who haven't done this may have a hard time appreciating, i.e. how open and vulnerable you have to be to ask for this lifestyle. I still remember that first conversation, and the angst and nervousness that preceded it, like it was yesterday.
DeleteI agree with Alan and Zm above. Spanking is more of an intimate act for me than sex. I am the sexual aggressor during sex. My wife likes me to take control. Like ZM, I felt extremely vulnerable a few nights ago after the strapping I received. My wife has seen me naked a million times, but being told to take my pants and underwear down and bend over was tough. I almost felt violated in a weird sort of way. I did not want a beating but obviously agreed to it. We are newer on the DD side so some parts are a work in progress. I would love for her ramp up the DD, but baby steps for us. I’m happy she was aggressive the other night. As for the spanking, I am still sore and tender and it hurt to sit the day after. I arrived home from work today and she did ask me how my bottom was. I told her extremely sore and she said good
ReplyDeleteYou deserved it.
Thank for commiserating Dan as my wife seems to be taking her knew role to a new level. I also agree with you Dan, I feel so much closer to my wife after that thrashing. I actually thanked her for it. This took a lot given my alpha ego. I know I blushed and was embarrassed. As for Fred, I don’t think I would ever want that level of DD. Being sparked for leaving a coffee cup around, seems a bit much for me and I would probably tend to shy away from DD for trivial things as such. Just my thoughts.
T
"I arrived home from work today and she did ask me how my bottom was. I told her extremely sore and she said good. You deserved it." Definitely sounds like a wife embracing the new role!
DeleteT
DeleteI share the embarrassment! We’ve been married almost 40 years and yet pulling down my pants and underwear for a spanking is humbling and even embarrassing. I voiced this to Ann and she said, “You should be embarrassed, to have to have your bare bottom spanked like a ten year old!”
Read this week’s post to get a little more about why I’m spanked for coffee mugs. Probably after this horrible week it will be months before I am spanked again, because it does work.
As we have progressed with DD, I have slowly improved my behavior to the point at which the few things left to spank me for are trivial things. Therefore, in order for me to still be disciplined, which I still need, she has to become more strict and less tolerant. Leaving a cup of coffee around gives her a reason to spank, which is good for both of us.
ReplyDeleteVery similar in our own situation. Part of my original request to my wife was to not only correct my faults, and ensure her happiness, but for her to help me become the best husband and man that I could be.
DeleteShe has been gracious enough to continuously raise her standards for my behavior and achievement as we have progresses. Sometimes it seems (to me) to be going to far. She doesn't hesitate to remind me of my original request for her to help me "be the best me;" often, she also notes that "there are no limits to perfection!" (Me and my "smart ideas!")
This!!
DeleteDan, it sounds like what you are describing is the paridoxical nature of being a disciplined husband. Sometimes it seems like she goes to far, but if she didn't, you would be in charge, not her. It seems like her going to far sometimes is just part of what makes it work. Either she is the boss, or she isn't. Ultimately, she is probably mostly doing it because she loves you, and she knows you need it. It seems many of us envy you, as the sentiment has been expressed in this blog that many of us wish our wives would be more strict than they are.
ReplyDeleteNorton, sorry, I'm not sure which of my comments you're responding to?
DeleteOct 18 @ 2:54, ending with "Me and my smart ideas" which is similar to "be careful what you wish for"
DeleteAh, that was Donn's, not mine.
DeleteSorry, Dan - My mistake.
ReplyDelete