Hi all. I'm not going to post this week. Frankly, I'm pretty burned out on electronic connecting and just don't feel like coming up with a post. Have a good week and stay healthy.
Saturday, April 25, 2020
No Post This Week
Hi all. I'm not going to post this week. Frankly, I'm pretty burned out on electronic connecting and just don't feel like coming up with a post. Have a good week and stay healthy.
75 comments:
This blog is a curated resource for those genuinely and positively interested in DD and FLR lifestyles. Comments that are rude, uncivil, inconsistent with the blog's theme or off-topic may not be posted or may be removed. Please use a name or initials (doesn't have to be your real one) when commenting - it helps commenters keep track of who is "talking."
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Dan,
ReplyDeleteI know I hate connecting electronics.
I have a question/suggestion for a future topic. My wife seems to really be accelerating full speed into taking more control of our marriage. Her goal is making it a very strong FLR. Believe me, I'm NOT complaining. I asked. To accomplish more Carol wants to gradually include more in the way of orgasm control and chastity as both discipline and as a way to make herself "central to the intimacy, pleasure and excitement". Well, I thought she was already. This is one of those early morning edits after breakfast. Those words and phrasing seem almost to be out of a book or blog, and she has been following more FLR blogs. She said we'll talk about it more this evening, which was both exciting and scary but I guess that's the point. So, I wondered whether a future topic would be a discussion or survey of chastity and control of orgasms in the context of discipline and maintaining control in a relationship, if appropriate. How common, etc.?
I thought it might be appropriate as it seems part of the who FLR philosophy. If not in the spirit of the blog, "never mind" :-)
Have a nice weekend.
LH
LH, I don't think I will do that one. Honestly, part of the reason I wanted a break this week is there is an increasing drift on the blog from what I think of true DD and toward the kink/fetish stuff, and that's not where I want things to go. I need to pause and figure out how to deal with it, but I'm definitely not going to be taking it in a more Femdom-ish direction.
DeleteDan,
DeleteI honestly see your point. I've said this before but I will focus more on DD. I'm rather shocked, and delighted, that Carol is venturing into being quite the Mistress. She's taking advantage of the virus sheltering and I can say without hesitation that it has not been boring. She told me I shouldn't get too comfortable thinking that she's not going to be a strict disciplinarian, but I'll make a better effort to focus on the true DD part. I need to be signing off now, Carol's orders ;-)
LH
Perhaps, though I made this same point last week. A good indicator of whether the discussion is related to DD or, rather. Femdom, is whether the word "Mistress" is part of the discussion . . .
DeleteDan,
DeleteThanks! I just saw your response of April 25, 2020 at 8:44 PM. I will certainly do a better job at self-governing. What a blog you have by the way. You get comments even when you don't post anything for the week. But seriously, I certainly will edit myself more.
Sorry,
LH
Have to say, same here....the word "Mistress" connotes something very different than DD to me.
DeleteHusband has to call me "Miss Cecilia" or "Ma'am" when he's under discipline. He doesn't call me "Mistress", "Goddess", "Empress" or anything like that because I'm a Disciplinarian, not a Dominatrix.
DeleteI agree with Miss Cecilia that "Mistress" sounds like the title of a dominatrix rather than a disciplinary wife, so I don't like it at all. I don't personally like "Ma'am" either, but that's just because it doesn't feel natural to me. Early in the FLR phase of our marriage, Wayne tried out calling me "Ma'am", but it felt forced to me, so I told him to stop. We address each other either by name or using certain silly terms of endearment we have used since early in our marriage. It was important to me to have that thread of continuity between our FLR and the long pre-FLR phase of our marriage.
DeleteDanielle
I know some people don't like "Ma'am". A lot of ladies say it makes them feel old. I'm 13 years older than husband, in fact, I like to brag I'm over 40 and he's not even 30. So, I don't have that "old" feeling when people call me that. I like being called "Ma'am". I'm also naturally bossy (although I had to learn to even stand up for myself in a relationship), so I like it for that, too.
DeleteI am hearing "Yes, Miss," more and more from my husband, and I have to say I like it. If we ever go out in public again, I may make my macho man start using it.
DeleteBelle
Dan, for those of us relatively new to DD and without a lot of knowledge, your concern is a bit confusing and maybe would be worth a topic to clarify (though you may have already done so).
ReplyDeleteFor instance, you have said that there is a sexual component to your DD, but you don't want kink discussed; you have said there is an FLR component to your DD, but you don't want FemDom discussed. The parameters seem narrow. Isn't DD with a sexual component close to kink? Isn't DD with an FLR component close to FemDom? Where do you draw the line (and thus want your contributors to)?
Art and I are at one end of the DD spectrum: limited punishment without any of the other stuff. But it does mean we have little to contribute on some topics. Whereas contributors at the other end of the spectrum often have more to say ... but sometimes to your chagrin.
These shades of gray can be hard to differentiate. Enlighten us!
Liz
Liz,
DeleteUnfortunately, I know there are shades of gray and also lots of overlaps. I completely acknowledge it makes it difficult to impossible to give some list of definitive definitions. But, here are a few observations.
(1) In fairness, I think you are overstating what I've said. I haven't said I don't want kink discussed. In fact, I've said repeatedly and often that I think for the vast majority of men who ask for it there is some element of eroticism. So, if kink means a relatively unconventional practice that has some erotic or sexual motivation, yeah I think DD has kink elements for most people. As for FLR and Femdom, yes I think they have overlaps and are probably points on a spectrum, with the spectrum being some combination of (a) how "real" is shifting of power versus how much a game, role playing or fantasy; and (b) how prominent is the sexual component.
(2) There one factor that I think is a pretty common sense differentiator: Is the discussion centering on something relating to changing or influencing behavior through some kind of aversive or coercive element, on the one hand, or is it about spanking, feminization, humiliation, etc. that is totally or almost totally divorced from any "disciplinary," i.e. behavior correction component? Is that *really* a difficult or too subtle differentiator? I don't really think so. If someone is always talking about getting spanked, feminized, etc. and not one bit of it has a thing to do with punishing past behavior or modifying future behavior, then is it really hard to say the latter probably doesn't have much if anything to do with discipline? One variant that might be a little harder is a system like yours where Art gets spanked to humble him and before he has really done something wrong. While maybe it's not "corporal punishment" per se, I still see it as disciplinary because it does seem aimed at adjusting and improving behavior, if mainly prophylactically.
(3) Similarly, while there are overlaps, don't people have a general idea when something is really about Femdom or Master-slave dynamics? They seem to have some pretty stereotypical attributes. Things like terminology and titles like Mistress, servant slave. Excessive and over-the-top expressions of worshipful subservience, etc.
Part 2: (4) I totally admit I cause some of the confusion because I vacillate on how much I want to allows FLR discussions onto the blog and how much I want to explores those themes myself. What I know is pretty much every damn time I open it up more from its core mission, I come to regret it. I'm not sure how to deal with that. I've thought about things like an invitation-only blog that is only for those who have been posting for awhile and who are pretty clearly in what I think of as "core DD" relationships, but it doesn't work very well because some participants are pretty concerned about posting anonymously, which doesn't really work with an invitation process and access controls.
Delete(5) There have been several instances in which someone has started posting with an introduction which begins with something like: "We're not really into DD but . . ." I need to be a lot more diligent about responding quickly when such a commenter starts pushing the boundaries of the blog and bringing in more and more of whatever they are into that is not DD. This has happened over and over again, and it almost always ends with me getting pissed and chasing someone off as the began trying to take over and more and more. Remember "Richard" from a year or so ago? That was one of those mistakes. The common pattern seems to be someone shows up, announces they aren't really in a DD relationship, but . . . then prolific and verbose posting with increasingly little having a damn thing to do with disciplinary spankings or desires, until I finally get fed up and say something to rein it in or just start deleting comments. See meeting #259 from July of 2018 for a great example of the last time I started getting annoyed at the general drift.
Dan,
DeleteYou make an interesting distinction between Domestic Discipline and corporal punishment, which I think applies well to Art and me. Since most paddlings are preventative, they are not really punishment, which follows misbehavior. But they are discipline in the sense of training: I am helping to train him to be less arrogant with preventative paddlings, so that clearly is DD: domestic as in from the spouse, and discipline as in training. I previously would have said that I was corporally punishing him as well, but now I see that usually I am not (except when he acts out first). A fascinating distinction!
Liz
Liz, for your particular relationship it seems like kind of a hard line to draw. You said that he was getting arrogant and saying hurtful things to the kids during this lockdown, so in that respect it sounds like you are using corporal punishment. I see DD as an end and corporal punishment as a means, but it your particular case you're using spanking both as punishment and also kind of a prophylactic or training exercise. I guess it's kind of like a sports coach and exercise: making an athlete on a team run laps could be just basic physical conditioning that may not be pleasant but helps overall performance, or it could be punishment for mouthing off, breaking a team rule, etc.
DeleteLiz is dead on identifying preventive spanking as discipline more than punishment.But ironically discipline functions both in DD and in normal life as one method to avoid or decrease punishment.The more disciplined I am ( including self discipline, the less punishment I earn.That is one reason I have been a big supporter of preventatives, at least the way my wife uses them which I could describe as perceptively.Over the years the well timed preventative has saved me from a lot of severe punishment as well as saved her form unnecessary stress and anger.
DeleteAlan
I don't think that analogy is quite accurate, because running laps is a healthy activity that often isn't thought of as punishment. Whereas having your butt beat with a paddle is clearly a "punishment activity," even when it isn't truly punishment for previous bad behavior. Because is it truly punishment when you haven't done anything wrong? No! It's a punishment strategy used for training. A form of aversive training for behavior modification.
DeleteThe thing is that most people would feel they were being treated unfairly to be "punished" for something they hadn't done yet, even if they were likely to do it. But my husband ASKED for this. And he does not see it as punishment at all (I asked him). He sees it as "a painful reminder that really works."
I've been trying to think of an analogy. Maybe an overweight person having hot sause put on their tongue so they don't binge. It burns and reminds them not to overeat. The punishment activity happens before the crime. And if administered by a spouse, it could be called domestic discipline.
Liz
Liz
DeleteThat's the perfect analogy (skipping the overweight element)-burning hot sauce on the tongue - because what the disciplined husband experiences for the next several hours to days is the persistent burning in his bottom reminding him not only what just happened but why and that much worse could happen if he screws up.That's why preventatives work. They produce a vivid physical memory that motivates
Alan
Since it’s an off week and I know you enjoy a woodshed story I thought I’d share this. Yesterday was nice out so I wanted to clean out the storage bldg. I figured it take two hours but was more like five. I moved out the lawn tractor push mower and all the other stuff. When done I went in the house to get a Diet Pepsi. I told Dev how good it looked and she should check it out. We went back. She smiled and agreed it looked good. She picked up a wooden long handled brush used to clean tires and rims. She said as long as we’re back here we should have a “ discussion “ With the quarantine and our daughter being home we haven’t been able to take care of matters in the house. She was in a good mood so I wasn’t overly concerned. She closed the doors and when she turned around you could see the instant transition. She went from smiling into full discipline mode in a heart beat. She had me bend over the snow tires. After the lecture she pulled my pants down and stepped to the left side. I could hear the brush swoosh the air. It landed with a loud crack. The impact took my breath away ! Again and again. It only took seconds before I was begging for her stop. She continued and finally paused long enough for me to breathe. She said she wanted this to be remembered the rest of the day. The paddling continue for another couple minutes but seemed forever. She put the brush down. Smiled and gave me a big hug. She was back in her good mood again then returned to the house. I managed to mow the lawn and could feel every bump the John Deere rolled over. An hour later I went in the house and she saw me limping up the stairs. She asked if I hurt my back ? I said no , lower. She wanted to see her work. I pulled my pants down for her to see. She was surprised to see the deep red but mostly purple bottom. As I’ve said before , I rate all of her spankings on a 1-10 scale. Most fall within a 6-7 range with one being a 9 a few years ago. This one without doubt was a solid 10 !! Perhaps I’m a tad lucky she didn’t see the rubber bunji cords on the wall. It was quite the experience. I’m still sore today and can understand “ you won’t sit for a week “ saying. I’ll never invite her back to the shed again ! Enjoy your week. JR
ReplyDeleteSuch a descriptive encounter makes leaving out the reason for the punishment conspicuous by absence, especially since you say it ranks as the most severe one you’ve received. Is there a reason you left that out?
DeleteA bunch of small things over the past month. I really believe she didn’t understand the impact of the damn thing. The session was relatively short. The ending result is quite dynamic. Still sore. She said she didn’t mean for that to happen. I’m sure that won’t happen again.
DeleteDebijon,
ReplyDeleteTotally cool. I did enjoy it! It was the perfect venue for Dev to have a "discussion" with you and shows snow tires can be useful in the spring. Looks like you had the perfect storm; just Dev, you, a woodshed, brush and a Diet Pepsi.
We have a home in the country; pretty secluded. There's no woodshed but the place came with a good sized metal barn. I've done work to it over the years (added a cement floor, work bench, vise, shelves). I always hoped my wife would surprise me and cut a switch a few times (only if I deserved it of course). Well, she never did but when our daughter and her fiance stayed over on a long weekend we finally had some privacy when they decided to go shopping. Carol decided to give me a surprise by telling me she didn't like how I answered her back when she asked perfectly reasonable question (I thought I was nice ;-). Shortly after we were all alone at the house she walked me out to the barn and we had a "discussion"; just her, me and a hairbrush. But discipline doesn't happen often there, and its a shame because the place is so secluded I actually pay for extra security on it.
LH
I agree that if one just gives things a moment of consideration, you can get a reasonable sense of whether you are writing about a DWC-type anecdote or something more outside of this Blog's parameters.
ReplyDeleteI would use a guideline of "when in doubt, leave it out." That's just me though.
Also, there is the matter of context. Dan puts a lot of time and energy into creating this very enjoyable experience for all of us. So let's all be respectful guests. Hope everyone is staying well and managing this epidemic experience in an acceptable manner.
Danielle here:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tomy. It is difficult to draw a clear line between DD, FLR, and Femdom BDSM. But Dan’s blog has a clear focus on disciplinary spanking within a marriage/relationship, and he also sets a tone that shows his own sensibility isn’t compatible with hardcore Femdom, which usually involves humiliation for the sake of humiliation. I think people need to try to respect that sensibility, but I can see that it must be frustratingly difficult for Dan to articulate clear “rules” to guide people who don’t share his sensibility.
In the FLR I have with my husband, there are elements of DD and elements of Femdom. Spankings are, for the most part, disciplinary, though they are undoubtedly humiliating for Wayne. I also use other forms of discipline. As I see it, “discipline” has an educative value. Wayne said at the outset of our FLR that he wanted me to be “the boss” and that he wanted to please me. I see the “educative” purpose of DD as a way to teach him how best to please me and to adjust his attitude when necessary.
The bedroom humiliation play to which I have sometimes alluded is not “disciplinary” because we do it for purely sexual purposes. In my mind, that kind of humiliation play is extraneous to the core of our FLR. But as I think about this, I realize that my husband may not see things the same way. I suppose that for him humiliation play in the bedroom may be just as central to our FLR as “educating him” outside the bedroom is to me.
Like you, Danielle, I use things besides spanking as disciplinary tools. I don't say much about some of them here, because they seem outside the scope of this blog. I do use humiliation as a disciplinary tool. When husband pleads not to be seen by my friends when he's dressed up and spanked and not to let them see what happens, I remind him that they wouldn't have to see him if he didn't disobey me.
DeleteMe using all my tools has cut way back on his misbehavior.
Cecilia and Danielle,
DeleteSince you both use humiliation in some context , do you distinguish between it and "humbling"? To us humiliation is part of the whole mistress -slave scene and we see it as play and not very interesting. For sure I don't want my wife to humiliate me privately or publicly. At the same time being subject to her authority and discipline does humble me sometimes and we see that as healthy, a constructive way to manage the male ego and a sure way to stop male arrogance. Just being spanked, having my pants lowered, made to listen to a scolding, stand bare bottom in the corner or made to recite my disobedience before a spanking are all humbling and part of our relationship but neither of us experience them as humiliation.So I am asking if either or both of you can answer: do you see a basic difference between humiliating your husband and humbling him - or is this another area in which semantics is obscuring similarities among couples. Thanks if you can enlighten
Alan
To Danielle, Tomy, Dan,
DeleteDanielle says, "In the FLR I have with my husband, there are elements of DD and elements of Femdom. Wayne said at the outset of our FLR that he wanted me to be “the boss” and that he wanted to please me. I see the “educative” purpose of DD as a way to teach him how best to please me and to adjust his attitude when necessary. I suppose that for him humiliation play in the bedroom may be just as central to our FLR as “educating him” outside the bedroom is to me."
I regret making my comment much longer by adding so much of Danielle's quote, but her words explain the disciplinary aspects of, though obviously not the disciplinary specifics of, my marriage well. I didn’t want to merely rehash Danielle's thoughts. They define how I see DD and what I believe my husband prefers as the components of FLR in our marriage and, more importantly, how I’ve decided they are implemented. I think it really is fair to say that if someone wants to participate in the discussion on your blog, whether it’s by giving an opinion or relating an event for a topic, it basically comes down to whether there’s a direct “Mistress” (or “Master”) flavor to their comment. Clearly, some aspects of discipline are, by nature, kinky. Some are meant to teach, and others are meant to punish (though, hopefully, not too severely).
I recently found an interesting Femdom blog which I will not identify here. The woman promotes loving domination and control of her husband (who encouraged the relationship). I think their relationship is quite mature. From what I’ve read she doesn’t flog her husband with paddles or bath brushes to cause great pain lol. Discipline seems real enough, but light spanking sessions, temporary restrictions, and difficult assignments are devised to punish and train him while keeping him in the submissive frame of mind he desires. Without trying to embarrass my husband, I see many of such Femdom activities being implemented, or increased, within my marriage while other more extreme discipline will be still be applied when necessary. I think the general rule to be followed, and that my husband has been told follow, is to contribute opinions or stories that relate to the latter. Debijon’s woodshed punishment story, which I found humorous, and my husband’s (LH) metal barn story, which I know we both enjoyed, were classic examples of contributions appropriate with the intended purpose of this blog. Unfortunately, where one spouse is disciplined and the other is the disciplinarian, there’s always going to be some overlap with FLR or MLR, in my opinion, because someone is “leading” while another must follow.
Tomy Nash says, “I would use a guideline of "when in doubt, leave it out." That's just me though.”
I’ll close by saying I agree with this.
Thank you for allowing me to comment to a fascinating "No Post" discussion.
CarolH (LH)
Dan,
DeleteI have made my comment with my husband knowing, full well, that I reserve the right to read his comments, though I don't tell him what to write. I honestly do NOT say this to fan the flames of Femdom, but I will be letting him know if I feel he makes a future comment that leans "toward the kink/fetish stuff" excessively.
Regards,
CarolH
Alan,
DeleteAll of what you say is humbling, but for us, it's also humiliating. I'd guess we don't distinguish.
Danielle here:
DeleteAllan, I haven’t really given much thought to the difference between “humiliation” and “humbling”. Humiliation has a negative connotation, while to be humbled has a positive connotation. When an overly proud or arrogant person is humbled, that’s a good thing, right? But the opposite of “arrogance” is “humility”. So humility has a positive connotation, although the negative word “humiliation” is derived from the word “humility”. It’s confusing, so I don’t worry too much about the words. Maybe an experience that would be humiliating in a psychologically harmful way for one person would have the beneficial effect of humbling another person. When you consider that for some people certain humiliations are sexually arousing, it becomes really complicated.
You say that you find it humbling but not humiliating to be spanked. I don’t think I would feel the same way if I was in your place or my husband’s place. In my mind, for an adult to be spanked like a naughty child is humiliating almost by definition. For that reason I would never submit to it myself. I do that to my husband partly because he wants me to and partly because it has practical benefits. I know he finds it humiliating because he has told me so. But I have also observed that it has the beneficial effect of humbling him. He is by nature a proud and argumentative person. Before FLR we used to have arguments which it was impossible for me ever to win because once he committed himself to an argument he could never back down even if he was clearly in the wrong, and he is good at arguing. I think it is good for him and good for our marriage that we no longer argue like that. When he is bent over the end of the bed with his pants down, he has to listen without argument to what I have to say, and my hairbrush or paddle focuses his attention wonderfully.
Unlike Cecilia I don’t consciously use humiliation as a disciplinary tool. Humiliation is simply an unavoidable part of spanking discipline. I have no idea why humiliating punishments function as a deterrent to someone who is turned on by humiliation. It’s a mystery. The only important thing is that it works. In the bedroom we engage in outright humiliation play, but there is nothing punitive about that. I do it because it turns him on, and it turns me on to be able to turn him on that way.
Danielle,
DeleteThanks for your thoughtful response. To me humiliation evokes a harmful and negative emotion and is itself negative as in belittling your husband for the fun of it.Whereas humbling my out of control male ego is positive and appropriate in the context of our relationship.Maybe its the goal of the humbling/humiliation that matters. If my wife is correcting me verbally for arrogance, I see that as positive. The humbling has a disciplinary purpose and is appropriate and needed. But if she would just try to tear me down psychologically because she can, that's negative and in fact abuse. But you have put your finger on something else and that is the "turn on" aspect of either humbling or humiliation on the disciplined husband. Apparently some are excited by humiliation. But speaking for myself ( maybe other disciplined husbands will comment here for themselves)I am not turned on by humbling/humiliation. I am very turned on by my wife aggressively taking charge and disciplining me but humbling, when it occurs is just a byproduct of that. I don't seek or want it for itself and as an otherwise alpha male, it is not anything I would allow to occur outside my relationship. I don't know if that clarifies or further obscures the issue but thanks for your insight. This is a difference that seems to many a hard line between DD and BDSM
Alan
Cecelia,
DeleteThanks. To me that puts your relationship squarely in the DD category although some of your practices seem borrowed from BDSM.As I read what you have written your goal seems to be to keep him obedient to your authority rather than impose unnecessary humiliation.
Alan
I'm wondering if some of the things in our DD relationship come from me being the one to introduce it rather than husband (who was boyfriend at the time). Discipline came to our relationship by accident and was part of a long process.
DeleteHusband doesn't like being disciplined, whatever disciplinary tool(s) I use. It's obvious to me and anyone else who witnesses it, despite things that happen during a Disciplinary Session, he doesn't like it. Even so, he knows I'm happy with the results it's produced so far and I'm going to be happier with any improvements in his behavior that disciplining him produces. He's always put me first, so he submits to My Authority because it makes me happy.
Husband doesn't get "turned on" by humiliation. The first time I had a witness, my best friend, even though he knew I was going to have her (he just didn't know when), once he knew she was there, he wouldn't come out of his corner in the other room. I had to go in and get him. He begged and pleaded with me to wait for another time when we were alone, but I was firm (he also got extra). It was a long time before he disobeyed me, again.
I do take some practices from BDSM. I haven't mentioned all of them. I've mentioned one in passing here and there. I talk most about the feminizing, but all of what I do has a disciplinary purpose. I do have to wonder if some of my practices with husband come from me asking the professional dominatrtixes who visit the hotel. All of them have been helpful but I suppose some of that's motivated by them wanting us to keep putting up with them.
The main goal of my disciplinary tools is to reinforce My Authority and reduce the frequency of his disobedience. There are some side benefits, too. I've already admitted I enjoy disciplining him, even if he doesn't like being disciplined.
Allan, erotic humiliation is a tricky thing. My husband isn’t turned on by humiliation in general, just as he isn’t turned on by pain in general. But in the context of spanking, both of those things arouse him…at least in anticipation and in memory of the event, if not in the moment. But I would never “tear him down psychologically”. I agree with you that that would be abuse. I won’t go into detail about the erotic humiliations I dish out in the bedroom to respect the DD spirit of this blog. Let’s just say they could be classified as playful sexual teasing. Some of that teasing might damage the self esteem of some men, but I know what Wayne likes and how much he can handle because we have communicated about it. I know he would not be turned on if I told him he was stupid or worthless, and I wouldn’t do that anyway. I’m glad he has no desire to be humiliated in ways that would feel truly abusive to me.
DeleteDanielle
Miss Cecilia, if your husband doesn't enjoy being humiliated on some level, why would he submit to that? I don't mean to imply that you are wrong about his feelings. I just don't understand what would motivate his submission.
DeleteDanielle
Danielle,
DeletePerhaps it's for the same reason he submits to spanking, chastity and other disciplinary tools that I haven't mentioned on this blog. He's agreed there are penalties for disobedience, rudeness or other things, so he pays the penalties I decree. He doesn't like being spanked. The beggings, pleadings and tears are real.
He doesn't like chastity. He doesn't like the other disciplinary methods I use. He might enjoy the feminizing on some level, because even though I introduced that, too, it was originally in a sexual background, so, he still associates dressing up with sex. He does this even though there's clothing and underwear strictly for discipline and some strictly for play.
He's always gone out of his way to indulge me and accommodate me. He was the one who kept after me to let him know what I was thinking or feeling. Both he and I now wonder why I was so different in a relationship than other parts of my life. Especially at the job, I am used to dictating. I was never that way with a guy until him.
Before I began applying physical discipline to his bare rear end, we had a talk and agreed on everything. I even told him I would "push the envelope" to get him to agree to things he wouldn't at the time, like disciplining him in front of witnesses.
He knew my best friend knew everything, anyhow. This was a reason she was the first to see him get one. He told me afterwards it was very humiliating, especially since they don't like each other. Once you break a barrier, though, it's easier to push even more.
He's always good for his word, too. Some times, I'll offer him a choice of a long time in chastity v. something he had a limit on as a penalty for disobedience. There's nothing unusual there, as both his parents and mine sometimes gave us a choice of this or that as a penalty when we'd done something wrong. Sometimes, too, both of our parents asked us what we thought the penalty should be if we did something wrong. If the punishment we proposed wasn't enough, sometimes we were pushed in the direction they wanted.
Then, too, there's always "Because I SAID SO!"
In reading through all of these comments, I think there Is a point that Dan mentioned that seems to be more crucial than who calls who what or what technique is being employed. It comes down to the emphasis of the comment. A lot of variety of types exist within DD and in my experience here Dan is way more open to type than emphasis.
ReplyDeleteI have a varied relationship with Rosa with many elements I write about on my blog that I don’t post here. But despite seemingly sticky particulars, we DO have a definite DD aspect to our relationship and that is what I try to focus on here.
Each week there is a topic here . Sometimes it’s a basic comparison of ways to approach something, sometimes it’s more about personal feelings and philosophies over discipline issues but it is always a topic with some sort of point. A post that touches on the topic but is really more about the juicy details that get people going is like a Trojan Horse. It sneaks in as one thing but when the guard is down it’s more about titillation.
I think if a jack-booted dominatrix showed up who has a genuine disciplinary aspect to her relationship and answered the week’s topic in that vein, keeping nonessential prurient details out, I don’t think Dan would care if she called herself Empress or Czarina or whatever.
It’s not whether you have sex toys in your closet. It’s how you answer the week’s topic. So rather than worry over details of distinction that may be inconsequential to the validity of a response, just honestly look at your response before submitting it. If you have a detailed adventure or personal revelations that do more to put an exhibitionist tingle in your groin than honestly addressing the subject, edit the nonseXquiturs out. If you can read your own post and see it as a concise, focused contribution to the topic at hand, I doubt Dan will have a problem with it whether you wear jeans when you punish or a special outfit.
People write on blogs for many reasons and on adult blogs, getting a thrill, vicarious or otherwise, is a big one. And there are plenty of places to do that. I think Dan is trying to do something more supportive, empowering, and serious here. So just answer the topic, be honest about what you say and who you are, and I think everyone will be able to benefit and coexist despite stylistic differences.
Very well put. And, I've always loved your coined term "nonseXquiturs," and now I love it even more when explained with the Trojan horse metaphor.
DeleteDan: Thanks and you know how “nonseXquiturs” is not just a term but one of the only two things that will get a comment deleted (or mocked without mercy) on my blog. Feel free to adopt a similar policy. I have discovered that those prone to nonseXquiturs are practically blind to seeing what they write as them. Deleting (since mocking doesn’t seem to be your style) might be the best way to teach them.
DeleteToo bad it’s so difficult to determine that people are who and what they claim because THAT is an internet reality I could really live without.
Yeah, and ironically, if it wasn't for my desire to protect *my* anonymity, verifying people's claims about identity would be a piece of cake. If this shutdown has taught us anything it's that Zoom calls are a workable substitute for "real life." :-)
DeleteInternet anonymity makes it possible for people to be dishonest. They can misrepresent their identities, and they can pass off fantasy as real life. But anonymity also makes it possible for some people to be honest in ways that wouldn't otherwise be possible because without it they would be too embarrassed or inhibited to talk about secret parts of their lives.
DeleteKD is remarkable in that he is totally comfortable with his kinks and feels no need to hide behind a veil of anonymity. Most of us aren't like that.
Danielle
Hi Danielle, yes, it's true that anonymity has its positive and negative aspects.
DeleteDanielle & Dan: As Plato opined...."Truth is its own reward."
DeleteDanielle expresses this eloquently: "responsible" anonymity is the gift of the internet. After all, many of us talk regularly on here of emotions and experiences we rarely or never talk about anywhere else.Its an incredibly rich resource never before available. Imagine the impact a forum like this would have had on you if available when you were in your 20's
DeleteAlan
Alan, sort of. In my particular case, I'm not sure whether it would have done anything. I definitely wasn't looking for anything like it at that stage, I honestly have no idea what might have happened had I discovered DD in my 20s instead of my very late 30s. I suspect, though don't know for sure, that it wouldn't have done much for me. But, if you haven't been a life-time spanko, it's impossible to know how you might have reacted to something at some other point in your life.
DeleteKD, do you suppose Plato's wife spanked him if he neglected to take off his sandals at the door? And, if so, would he have considered public acknowledgment of that truth to be "its own reward"? ;-)
DeleteDanielle
Danielle: I can't answer for Plato, and neither can he, but I think his student Aristotle would ......as evidenced in an image I just posted for you on my blog. It's at the end of today's post.
DeleteIn regard to the question about how our DD journey may have been different if those of us here who are older had been online in our twenties, with access to all the information and connection that we have now - indeed a very interesting question.
DeleteI was aware of that I had an interest in F/M spanking fairly early on, as a result of experiences along the way. So, while I think that I could have appreciated the information now available online at a much younger age, I do not think that I would have been actually ready to approach my wife much sooner than I did, forty-ish. Also, although my wife quickly and enthusiastically embraced the DWC lifestyle, I do not really think that she would have been able to do so much sooner than she did.
For both of us, as well as others whom I've heard express similar sentiment, I just think that a certain amount of life experience and relationship experience is very helpful - if not essential - for a couple to successfully adopt the DWC lifestyle.
Although, I am certain there are others who have had a different experience.
--al
Indeed - good discussion on this "No Post" week. As all seem to agree, while Dan has asked to focus on DD, there are definitely fluid lines with lots of gray space surrounding FLR, DD (specifically "DWC Style"), femdom,etc. But, I do like the suggestions that we will be honoring Dan's focus if we stayed focused on the "weekly question" and Tomy's suggestion that "when in doubt, leave it out" (like comma's).
ReplyDeleteWhen I was involved in Aunt Kay's DWC private forums (that required a phone interview to join), I recall that she had very strict rules about what was discussed - basically about keeping husbands well behaved through spanking discipline (and corner time - and other "maternal" style disciplines - but nothing about femdom practices).
Dan, I hope you and your family - as well as the "family" here on this blog - are all doing well in this strange time. I keep hoping to contribute more regularly to the conversations here, but life just keeps getting in the way - hopefully there will be more time down the road. Thanks once again for your efforts on behalf of the DWC community. --al
Hi al. Thanks for dropping by. I've been hoping you're doing OK through this. Hope to hear more from you soon.
DeleteMeanwhile, take a glance over at Strict Julie's for a metamorphosis that would warm Ovid's heart while underscoring how hard it is to talk about "who" we are. "what" we do and "how to think about it
ReplyDeleteAlan
I've been to "Julie's" blog and can't say that I'm seeing any miraculous transformation. In fact I mentioned something along those lines and the response did not convince me I was wrong to see this as just another sexy twist in their play relationship. "Who decides" is not the defining criteria of DD.
DeleteAnd while you're there, please go back to the post about "Reactions" and read the Anonymous comment which mentions "Honesty is the Best Policy" and David not knowing about the blog. Read my reply, and the reply back to me. I would love to know what you make of that?
HI KD,
DeleteI was using metamorphoses in the poetic (Ovid) sense, so no I don't see any deep transformation - But I do think Julie is an authentic spanko, probably much longer than she has portrayed - and I suspect she is close to her core persona now as a spanked wife. If she is a switch, she is a remarkable one, but even switches have a home page and she is probably there right now. As far as her husband "knowing", of course he knows, and has known from the beginning. I don't know why she has been untruthful about that but she has
Alan
I have a theory on that. I agree that David does indeed know about the blog, but I am wondering if Julie does?
DeleteI have considered that and there is some early internet based evidence that makes that plausible. However the blog taken overall, with allowance for the clearly labeled “fiction” exudes a strong verisimilitude not easy to manufacture. Still, there is more to the backstory than she has revealed
DeleteAlan
Merry, who visits here, has a saying I love: "pictures....or it didn't happen". I am sticking to that philosophy for anything written there that can be easily verified with a cell phone shot.....but isn't, even if heads are cut off or blurred. Also, just because an adventure is well-documented, still doesn't mean the person publishing is being transparent. The problem with blurring some issues disingenuously is that it stirs up suspicion over every issue......which is where I am now.
DeleteIn principal I agree with you, exceptions noted. I think Julie has to up her transparency or risk having her blog taken for a well written creative piece of fiction/fantasy.Curious people are asking questions.
DeleteAlan
By the way, Alan, I really appreciated your earlier post on the distinction between humbling (humility) and humiliation. Nice insight. --al
ReplyDelete--al
DeleteIts good to hear from you again. We have missed your always on point contributions
Alan
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI can totally understand being “burned out on electrically connecting.” I too am at that point, and I didn’t really even realize it until I read what you wrote. Electronic communication is a pretty great addition to live human interaction, but is a very poor substitute for it when the live element is non-existent. Today I had a business meeting with one person from my company and with an ex-colleague, and it was just so refreshing, since for the last month or so it has been just me at home with my wife and teenage son.
I was sad when I saw that there was no topic, especially since I really had nothing to say about last week’s topic so sat on the sidelines. My wife doesn’t really use words or phrases that much at all (and neither of us understand why she doesn’t more, but she just doesn’t). But then this weeks not-a-topic topic has been really great!
First off, I want to say that when it comes to commenting on this blog, I agree totally with KD. You can do whatever you do in any area of life, or be into whatever you are into, but this blog is specifically for DD-related things, so no matter what someone is into, they can come here and limit their comments to DD related topics.
I hate the distinctions, because there is always lots of gray area, but for me DD is real punishment for real infractions. For me, it is not about the punishment type at all, since there are a broad spectrum of punishments that may be useful, but generally spanking is one we focus on a lot here. Also for me it is not that important WHY one is employing DD, whether it be for discipline or training, for punishment, to vent, to humble the recipient, to clear the air, or whatever, as long as the underlying reason for punishment is a real offense. But that’s just me…
As far as humbling and humiliation, which is where I really got interested this week, again I don’t really care about the distinction between them, though I agree that at least a part of it has to do with intention, and there is a big difference between taking someone down a peg who feels like they are above everyone else and psychologically damaging someone. Anyway, I think in a loving relationship most people can find their own way on that. However, my wife does expect that spanking will be veyr humbling, and she expects to see a changed attitude and demeaner. At the same time, she has and sometimes does use humiliating activities to make a punishment more impactful, so I guess in this way it seems similar to Cecilia’s approach, though much of what Danielle said also resonated with me (and always does).
I am not sure how I compare to others, because I think that for me this whole need is driven by a punishment fantasy. I don’t have a spanking fetish per se, though I am turned on by spanking. But someone, playful spanking just isn’t a turn on. The same is true for humiliation. I would not want or allow humiliation in most situations in life, but when it is used specifically as part of a punishment, I am OK with it, and even find that it is the most effective. So in short, most any activity - whether corporal punishment or humiliation - can be both a turn on to me (outside the moment it is actually happening) and can also change my behavior, but only when it is intended as a real punishment, and only if there is a real reason for that punishment to happen.
-ZM
ZM captures the essence of DD as I experience it. Real punishment for real offenses, with spanking the core if not exclusive punishment given. It may or may not be FLR ( ours isn't) and there may be spanking related punishments such as corner time, severe scolding , humbling confessions etc,used to reinforce but spanking is the core and real offenses are the trigger. The more we move beyond that template the more we lose focus on real DD and move into something else altogether.
DeleteAlan
Hi ZM,
DeleteSounds like you are a little further along the curve than we are or an area that is liberalizing restrictions faster. Still no in-person business meetings in sight for me and our business any time soon. It's an interesting learning experience in terms of clarifying what it is about work that serves our economic needs and what feeds our spirits. We've been able to keep the business moving forward surprisingly well via telephone, video conferences and even virtual happy hours. Yet, what I feel--and what I hear from people in the organization who are a lot like me--is that those things may keep the business going and do involve human contact, but it's just not the thing as having a cup of coffee with someone in the office kitchen or grabbing a beer together after work. I really, really miss those physical human contacts. Electronic versions just are not a substitute.
"I hate the distinctions, because there is always lots of gray area, but for me DD is real punishment for real infractions." I agree, though I think KD has a point and that a lot of the discussion was really splitting hairs. And, what do I do with a situation where I people I don't want to talk about Femdom and what I get back is "Let me tell you about how good my wife is becoming at Domm-ing" me and "Let me tell you about this cool Femdom website . . ." I don't know whether irony is a lost art, but self-awareness while creating it seems to be.
Delete"I don't know whether irony is a lost art, but self-awareness while creating it seems to be." Hahahahahaha. You, sir, are a master of words!
DeleteAnd yeah, I totally understand where you are coming from. People SO want to talk about whatever kink it is that they are fascinated by, that they will do anything to somehow make it seem enough like DD to take the discussion that direction.
And quite honestly, I think you are just the right amount of accommodating. If someone who has been regularly posting for years here and who normally stays within the lines includes a bit about something else they do in the context of DD, you graciously let it slide. On the other hand, one of the things that makes this blog a great resource for many is that you do a good job of keeping it on topic, so I don't think it is in any way inappropriate to remind people what the purpose of the blog is. This is, after all, your yard so visitors can respect your rules!
The way I look at is is that here we talk about DD. I have many other opportunities to talk to people in day to day life - though recently unfortunately not so much - and somehow I can keep myself from bringing up kinky stuff during those conversations. In the same way that I wouldn't talk about femdom in a work situation, I don't find it particularly hard to steer clear of it here.
-ZM
Oh, and in regard to "Sounds like you are a little further along the curve than we are or an area that is liberalizing restrictions faster. Still no in-person business meetings in sight for me and our business any time soon."
DeleteNope, actually we are only allowed out of our house for a few hours a day, based on ID numbers, no driving, and business meetings are not allowed. However, I broke all three rules since it was not my hours to go out, I drive, and I had a business meeting, though it was only with two people, and we maintained our distance. This is, however, the first time I have done that and do not plan to repeat it, but it was a time-sensitive matter. Anyway, if I were one to religiously follow rules and to stay within boundaries, I am not sure I would be so drawn to this blog. :-)
-ZM
I totally get it on not following rules religiously. I've complied pretty well with those that seem necessary to keep others safe. But, I haven't been religious about situations in which I am not likely to interact closely with or otherwise expose others. We have a vacation place, and I finally ignored the restrictions on visiting it because (a) it was a short drive that doesn't involve sharing transportation with anyone; and (b) while there I just hung out and ate from delivery or take-out places where I had little or no contact with anyone. Though, while all that meant I didn't expose myself or others unreasonably, it also meant that while it got me out of the house for a while it did nothing to scratch my itch for real human contact.
DeleteZM wrote: >>>DD is real punishment for real infractions. For me, it is not about the punishment type at all, since there are a broad spectrum of punishments that may be useful, but generally spanking is one we focus on a lot here.<<<<
DeleteI agree with ZM that DD is "real punishments for real infractions." But for me the punishment type is also relevant. My disciplinary tool kit as a wife is basically derived from my disciplinary tool kit when I was raising my sons. So in my mind, any punishment that I can imagine using as a parent, I use for DD as a wife. That includes spanking, loss of privileges, extra chores, grounding, etc. (Though spanking is much more central with my husband than it was with my sons). On the other hand, any "punishment" that would seem really weird if done to a son instead of a husband feels like BDSM to me. For example, Miss Cecilia mentioned forced feminization as a form of disciplinary humiliation. If a parent ever did that to a son, I think it would strike people as weird and psychologically abusive. Therefore, making my husband wear feminine attire feels to me like a form of erotic play rather than a disciplinary measure. I'm not stating that as a rule of thumb for other people, it's just the way I feel.
Danielle
Hi Danielle,
DeleteI totally understand where you are coming from. And I agree that it can certainly start to seem to cross a line into BDSM. I liked your example of forced feminization. Of course it would not be considered a normal or healthy disciplinary punishment to impose on a child, and I can see where if you did it to your husband it might feel to you like a form of erotic play.
Now is it BDSM or DD? Maybe that would depend on how he felt about it? If he kind of liked forced feminization, then that would seem to now be pretty fully in the camp of BDSM play. If on the other hand he really hates forced feminization, it might still work as a DD punishment, even though there are strong erotic elements of it.
Things like this would not be acceptable for children, because children are not supposed to be sexual at all! Adults, however, are often very sexual. I just don't know that anything that might be seen as sexual should automatically be classified as BDSM, with only those punishments that might be acceptable to use on a child being the only true DD punishments? Again, I really don't know. For me, there is just a ton of gray area, and some or even most things could be stuck in either category interchangeably depending on circumstances; there are things that I am turned on by, but that I absolutely hate in the moment. My wife kind of likes to do some BDSM roleplay. She could easily fit one of those things into play and it would feel like play. But because I really hate the time that those things happen - even though the very thought of them turns me on at other times - she could also use them effectively as punishment. I would know that she was doing it because it is so unpleasant for me at the time, and it would feel like real punishment. And because it is something that is a turn on to me at least in fantasy (not so much in real life), it still would get through to me in a powerful way.
We humans sure are confusing, or at least I am!
-ZM
I agree with you, ZM. I was just explaining how I feel about it, not setting out any kind of rule. But now that I think about it, I wonder whether humiliating someone as a punishment isn't just as abusive for an adult as it would be for a young person. For example, suppose I punished my husband by making him put on bright red nail polish, lipstick, mascara, and feminine attire to go out in public. I'm sure he would be mortified. I wonder whether he would even do it. If I managed to force him to do it, the humiliation he would feel would probably be punitive. But would that not be an abusive thing for a wife to do to her husband?
DeleteDanielle
Danielle,
DeleteIn reading through the comments your question struck me about punishing your husband with mascara and other makeup and clothing and sending him out in public. I’m guessing that he would be humiliated and embarrassed; especially if he was seen by neighbors and other people he knows. It might be an effective punishment but I think it would be abusive. That’s what I need to think about more and more as I get deeper into a FLR my husband has been interested in. As my husband does more and more to please me, and as I explore more creative ways to punish my husband when he needs it, I have to exercise caution and make sure he doesn’t go along to get along. This sheltering at home has increased his submission to me, but perhaps an old fashioned paddling or some cane strokes can’t be easily replaced by something that is punishment but that is also visibly kinky. My husband had to recently pick up food, see his doctor and get prescription refills for us. He was well protected with gloves and a mask but he vented and huffed about doing something for me and I decided to show him I’m boss painlessly. He had to text me every 30 minutes with a brief message consisting of his location and status except for when he was seeing his physician and when driving. He could text me when it was possible those times. I was expecting up to 6 text messages and I received them. Nothing embarrassing about it, but imagine if he was gone for more than the 3 hours he was away from home, or for most of the day. It still wouldn’t be embarrassing but would be annoying enough to be punitive because he just might get punishment when he got home if he fails. My point is that there are still non-abusive or far less abusive ways to punish. I think my husband would probably give me incredible pushback and even refuse to go out in public dressed in a feminine manner. He might not refuse if he was going to be inside for the day.
Carol H.
Hi Carol,
DeleteI know you were writing to Danielle, so hope you don't mind me jumping in. I think you raised some very valid points, especially that you "have to exercise caution and make sure he doesn't go along to get along." I think that you are right and that the disciplinarian needs to make sure that she is not in fact abusive, and that he is indeed a willing party.
I expect that Danielle was just using the dressing up as an example. And obviously it would be a very poor idea to do this to him if there was any chance of seeing people he knows. Furthermore, there are always issues with putting other people in awkward or uncomfortable situations (those who might see him). Anyway, I assume it was mostly hypothetical. Now on the other hand, if they stayed at home, as you mentioned at the end, it might still be embarrassing or humiliating to him, but without all the possibly destructive effects of having others see him, so that may be a different matter.
I agree with your statement that "...perhaps an old fashioned paddling or some cane strokes can’t be easily replaced by something that is punishment but that is also visibly kinky." It really depends on the people and the situation, but at the very least the punishment will be felt in a different way.
And finally, your statement "My point is that there are still non-abusive or far less abusive ways to punish." No question that there are many other ways to punish, though I expect that many who are not from our particular little group here might well consider spanking to be just as abusive if not more so, so again, I think it really depends on the people.
I personally thing that embarrassing punishments can be effective if in the framework of a loving relationship and if both partners are freely consenting. I am not saying that there aren't also other ways to punish, since there are obviously many, but rather that embarrassment may in some cases be a valuable punishment tool.
And one of the most fascinating thoughts about this whole topic (to me at least), is that just like spanking, someone can be very turned on by the thought of humiliations, but when things are happening they can just be dying for it to end quickly. And then when it is over, it is somehow both a hot memory, and yet also a genuine punishment that they wouldn't want to repeat anytime soon. This "morbid fascination" is to me by far the most intriguing and least understood part of this whole thing we do.
-ZM
ZM,
DeleteI don’t mind your response at all. You make good points. I know my husband felt humiliated by having to text me as I directed. I could tell by the look on his face when I told him there were texting intervals of 30 minutes expected. He knew it was punishment for his venting and apologized when he got home. He was going out anyway and I asked for one simple thing. He was disrespectful about it, and this happened right after I had ordered something expensive for him he wanted, which is going to be an anniversary gift. That really annoyed me. As I suspect holds true for Danielle in her home, in our home I’m the boss. I have some ideas for embarrassing punishments for my husband, but I want them to be in the context of a loving relationship that solidifies his place in the relationship if that makes any sense. He definitely won’t like them when they happen but probably will be turned on by them at some point. He adores me and I don’t want to damage that, but I do think spanking as “genuine punishment” needs to happen as necessary. That said, he’s never seemed happier. It’s finding that balance that’s difficult.
Regards,
Carol H.
Here's my definition of DD: When my husband disrespects me, I set his butt on fire.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's because I'm young, or because I'm new to DD, but there's no gray in it for us.
Belle
Hahahaha Belle,
DeleteI like the simple explanation. :-) But I bet that there really would still be some gray area in it if you start discussing consent, or perhaps "consensual non-consent" as well as who decides what will be punished, etc. In the end, the important thing is that you both are comfortable with whatever you have, regardless of the label that might be applied.
-ZM
Hi Danielle,
ReplyDeleteI agree that could be abusive, but in everything I am assuming an underlying consent. I may find some things my wife does very unpleasant at the time (including spanking!) but I have given blanket consent. If I really wanted add her to stop DD, I could do it at any time. But out of the moment, I do want this DD relationship, even though at the time things are happening I am not always sure why I want this! Consent makes all the difference.
-ZM