Sunday, January 12, 2020

The Club - Meeting 326 - Chores


An exhaustive study of police records shows that no woman has ever shot her husband while he was doing the dishes. - Earl Wilson (1907-1987) US newspaper columnist

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

The first full week of 2020 got off to a slow start for me in some ways, though it already yielded some big changes in other areas.  I may be proven dead wrong, but it just feels like 2020 is going to be a big deal kind of year, hopefully in a good way.  One good sign is that twelve days into the new year, I haven’t had any significant failure on the exercise, diet or personal behavior fronts.  My weight is inching down slowly but steadily, and my biggest challenge around exercise is I’ve had a couple of days where I was very tired, achy and my strength was down, indicating the real possibility there was some overtraining at work.  But, if twelve days into the new year my biggest problem is overtraining, I’ll take it.

Of course, the more things change the more they stay the same.  Last week ended with another little exchange with “Jack,” my most reliable yet least welcome regular commenter.  As I was preparing for this week’s post, I looked for past blog posts on the same topic.  The last one was back in 2017, and as I was re-reading it I found this that I had written about feeling qualms about introducing a topic the week before about fantasies:
  
“I had a lot of second thoughts about going down the ‘tell me your fantasies’ road, particularly at a time in which one of my biggest blogging frustrations is the little pest who keeps farting at my blog with his repetitive "She spanked my bottom, and then she said something pithy about a wife spanking her husband, and then she made me face the wall, and then some of her friends dropped by and I was embarrassed and my bottom hurt." Over and over and over.  And, he's now leaving the same inane drivel on Kathy's Femdom 101 blog and KD's blog and Hermione's, using two or three different names, both male and female.  It's enough to make me want to remove all the links to other blogs, since the trolls seem to start here, then when I take down their content they follow the trail of links to pollute all the other blogs I like and respect.”

Big sigh.  It would be nice to have a troll-free 2020, but no way that is ever going to happen, especially if the posting is tolerated or encouraged elsewhere.  To me, that’s kind of like feeding seagulls at the beach – fine as long as you’re OK being mobbed by more squawking seagulls. But, it's ultimately each blogger's choice as to how much distraction and aesthetic distraction to allow on their blog. Jack was irked at me because I made a comment about one of his silly repetitive comments on Red's Consensual Spanking blog, but it was because I know Red has tried, repeatedly, to get Jack to stop posting there too. 

So, what is the topic I was looking for when I stumbled on the exchange about Jack from three years ago? I decided to go with “chores.”  I’m not sure why that topic was on my mind this week, but I suspect it is because I’ve been pretty well-behaved in my bigger ticket areas like drinking too much, temper, etc. When those issues aren’t drowning out everything else, my mind turns to more everyday, pedestrian areas for improvement.


I also think it has something to do with my renewed interest in exploring the FLR and dominance aspects of our relationship. While our approach to Domestic Discipline has focused from the beginning on punishing for significant behavioral lapses that we both agree are substantial problems, that approach is almost entirely reactive.  It’s all about punishing something after it has happened.  The same is somewhat true for chores, but I feel like punishing for those gives her more opportunities to flex her “Head of Household” muscles by setting expectations, monitoring and evaluating performance, and setting appropriate levels of punishment or consequences.

 
 There also an undeniably “parental” or “maternal” aspect to her having the authority to assign chores and enforce compliance.


I also do believe that encouraging a level of submission to authority and holding me accountable for small things has ripple effects, at least if done consistently.  When it comes to developing good habits, what you do every day is more impactful than what you do every once in a while even if the latter is bigger, weightier or harder.  When I'm undisciplined and sloppy in small, everyday areas, that can't help but spill over into bigger things. It's kind of like the "broken windows" approach to policing, in which crime prevention focuses on things like petty vandalism and graffiti, because those petty crimes degrade the neighborhood and give people less of a sense that the rules matter.

We have talked about incorporating a more rigorous approach to chores and punishment for not doing them, though we never seem to get into much of a groove.  That’s unfortunate, because I think it could be a game changer.  I've talked about this before, but one incident that has stuck in my mind for a very long time involved one of the occasions when I was punished, somewhat unexpectedly, for not doing chores.  Most of the time, we split household tasks pretty evenly, though we cover different things based largely on respective competence and interest.  For example, she manages the bank accounts and pays the bills. I handle investments and retirement accounts.  Where meals are concerned, she shops and cooks, while I clean up and do the dishes.  Most of the time. But, I also have a tendency to get distracted and to leave aspects of the job uncompleted.  I’ll load the dishwasher but leave a few items in the sink.  Or, I’ll do all the dishes but fail to wipe down the counters and clean the stove.


An ongoing problem was a string of incidents in which I forgot to clean a rice cooker. I just totally spaced it, and a few times she would find leftover rice in the cooker several days later.  The third time it happened, she texted a picture of the uncleaned cooker with rice still in it, expressing her dissatisfaction in no uncertain terms.  That night, I was sitting at the kitchen table doing some work, and she walked in from her office and started pointing out other chores that had been done in a half-assed ways or lapses in attention that created problems.  Sweeping the floors but leaving tufts of dog hair in several places. Leaving the door to our bedroom closet open, which allowed a misbehaving pet to go in and pee on things. And then there was the chronic failure to really clean the kitchen after dinner without leaving things, like the rice cooker, undone or at best half-done.  She was having none of it.  "You did a half-ass job on the floors, you left the closet door open repeatedly after I told you not to, and then there is the damn rice cooker.  Shut down your computer and go to the basement.  You are going to get spanked."

And, that’s what happened.  I thought since these were fairly small matters, it might be a light spanking.  Nope.  She thoroughly blistered my ass with a combination of the strap, the paddle and the bath brush.  It was kind of like the story on the Disciplinary Wives Club website written by our Al, in which a husband asks to try a “real” disciplinary spanking, he and his wife agree that leaving the toilet seat up will be something that earns a spanking, he immediately leaves it up then tries to talk his way out of getting his first spanking. His wife carries through with a very harsh spanking, which on the surface might have seemed like more than such a small offense merited, but it got the message across and helped him understand what it was he was asking for.

In my case, as I collected myself after it was over, there was a small part that resented getting such a hard spanking for such "small" things, which really boiled down to simple forgetfulness and not paying attention, but I also felt a new respect for her and the first glimmerings of that "healthy fear" I had told her I wanted.   



The resentment and the respect were intertwined, because it was the fact that she had spanked for things that were important to her but not necessarily to me that led to the twinge of resentment, but it also was what made the exercise of authority real. More than just about any spanking she had given me for "bigger" issues, where we both agreed they merited not only spankings but very hard ones, getting spanked so hard for a poorly done chore was a powerful experience that showed her really stepping into her role.

Do chores play a role in your Domestic Discipline relationship?  Who assigns them?  What chores is the disciplined husband required to perform?  What are the consequences for not doing them or doing them poorly?

Ladies, do you assign chores to your husband?  If not, would you like to?  If you do, is there any protocol or standard you apply to inspecting his work and deciding whether it is sufficient?  If he doesn’t do a chore or does it poorly, how consistent are you in dealing with that?  What are the consequences?  A lecture?  A spanking?  Some other form of punishment?

I hope you have a great week.  Get those chores done! 

63 comments:

  1. Hi Dan,
    I will be back to comment more in depth on the chores topic and your specific questions, but I just wanted to say great topic for now! I especially like the angle of "caring for the small things" so I will write more about it when I have some time.

    Last week, I never chimed in, though I did start writing once but then got busy and never got back, so I am putting my small response here. Overall, even with your list of questions and the "would I?" part, still most of it ended up being a string of no's. Considering where we live, with an extremely strong patriarchal society and not a lot of openness (or exposure) to different sexual things, most of the things, like wearing something to indicate position or leaving tools lying around would not result in anyone putting the pieces together, except perhaps our kids, who are the very ones that we would prefer NOT know!

    We did talk about it some though, which was of course interesting. I could never see us doing any of the really open things, but having said that, at least on a certain level I really like the idea of one or more other people knowing about it. I am not even sure why, but somehow that seems to be something I crave. I would say that if it happens that someone knows, it will almost certainly be from her talking to her sister or one of her close friends about it.

    -ZM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi ZM. That's an interesting angle -- that those with little exposure to sexual things might also be the least likely to read something into seeing a "pervertable" tool like a hair brush or bath brush left out in open view.

      I have that same craving around having others know about it. Within fairly tight limits. But, unlike your relationship, in our case it has been me who has the proclivity for revealing it.

      Delete
    2. Hi Dan,
      I don't really know about those with less exposure and how that may cause them to not read things into seeing a hairbrush or something, but I can say for myself that I am the opposite of that. I am "triggered" by just about anything and everything that even COULD possibly be related to spanking, even though in almost in every case I am sure that it isn't! So even seeing something provocative that is almost certainly innocent can double my heart rate for a minute and make it hard to talk.

      As for openness in sharing about our relationship, I wouldn't say that she has a proclivity for revealing it, but I would say that IF anyone ever hears about it, it will almost certainly be from her, and then it will most surely either be her sister or one of her closest friends, because they are just so much open in talking about anything and everything than I am.

      -ZM

      Delete
  2. Hi Dan,
    Our household is a FLR and DD household and my wife is the boss. She has assigned me chores I am required to do. There are chores she wants done on certain days and she sets the standards to how she wants them done. Failure to complete the chores on time and to her standards will result in a spanking and doing the chores over again while she watches.

    For example one of my chores is cleaning the bathroom and when she inspected my work she wasn't happy with the way I cleaned the bath tub. She pointed out what was wrong and made me redo it again. when I finished and she approved she grabbed me by my ear and took me to her chair and told me I was going to be spanked. I told her I redid it and she said I was being spanked because I didn't do it right the first time.

    Another time I forgot to vacuum the carpets and she spanked me right then and told me I was grounded for the weekend and she was going to assign me extra chores to do then made me run the vacuum.

    It didn't take long for me to realize that I need to be careful and do my chores properly and on time.

    My chores include doing all the outside work in the summer and all year I am responsible to do the cooking everyday, cleaning the bathrooms, living room and bedrooms on the days required. Spring and fall I need to wash the windows inside and out.

    Do I resent being spanked for chores not done on time or poorly done? Yes at the time of the spanking I do but, when it's over and she hugs me and tells me she loves me and only wants to make me a better person I know I am loved and know it helps me be a better person.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Dan. I agree that making the offender redo the task and then get spanked anyway probably helps reinforce the lesson.

      Delete
  3. One would think this would be a straightforward topic, but as go most things i my life, it's not. In fact, given my current mood, I'm going to postpone my response, but I would like to pose some further questions to accompany this topic: for those with chores and consequences for not doing them, or not doing them in a timely manner, or improperly, could you give a rough estimate of when the standard and consequences were set, and how long after that were punishments no longer necessary? And does anyone out there feel that household stuff is a no-win situation, not so much for punishment but just in terms of feeling like no matter how much you do, it's never enough, or there's always something somewhere that negates everything else that was accomplished? And lastly, does anyone have a situation where some perceived household flaw results in your partner getting aggravated and withdrawing attention and becoming moody and distant rather than punishing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think this problem is unique to our group. My wife can be a perfectionist about certain things, and doing them only 95% right can be worse than not bothering.
      In FLR Theory, the capriciousness and arbitrariness of some of the rules is supposed to be a turn-on, and a chance for a disciplinary review, but IRL it doesn't always work out that way.
      CrimsonKing

      Delete
    2. My wife set the standards when she assigned the chores I have to do. As far as consequences for not doing something or doing them poorly were always a spanking and corner time. She can decide at anytime when a spanking will take place and for what ever reason she feels necessary.

      It didn't take me long to figure out exactly what she expected from me. After being spanked I learned what she expected and now I rarely get spanked for incomplete or poorly done chores.

      I think my wife new I resented a spanking at the time because I would be very quiet after the spanking for a short time.

      Delete
    3. I'll have to leave it to others to comment. As I've said, this isn't something that we have done consistently enough for me to have much to say on those specific questions, other than the observation in the post itself that part of me did feel resentment at what seemed like a very hard spanking for a "minor" offense. But, the counter to that is that it's not like this was some brand new issue that had not been raised before. And, as CK notes, for me the exercise of authority is a turn-on itself, and it becomes more so if my agreement or disagreement really doesn't matter. BUT, I'm sure that is very much a matter of degree. I have a lot of experience with being at the mercy of someone with mercurial moods that were utterly unpredictable (not my wife, by the way), and I definitely would not subject myself to that again. I didn't have much choice at the time, but I do now.

      Delete
    4. Joe2 here,

      If you take FLR out of the equation, and put those questions in a vanilla context; then you are asking the questions that men have been asking since marriage began.

      Delete
  4. I'm curious. Did she pick up on that small part of resentment or did you try to hide that from her?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't actually recall. But, given our usual means of communicating about this stuff, my best guess is that I first felt the resentment, then it became a turn-on once I had time to process the new exercise of authority, then I told her than in a journal entry.

      Delete
  5. Joe2 here,

    Chores have no direct linkage to my spankings. But indirectly, the spankings have a very positive influence.

    Because my spankings keep my emotional life in balance, I am happier; thus, more involved at home and willing to lend a “helping hand.”

    Since the spankings have started, I have found myself more prompt at performing those tasks which are clearly mine, e.g. taking out the trash and volunteering more for those tasks that are not mine, e.g. sweeping the kitchen floor.

    My wife really appreciates it when after a long exasperating day riding herd on the kids, I tell my wife to go sit and relax while I go take care of things e.g. clean-up and supervise the kids in their chores. While this doesn’t happen all of the time, it happens enough that it isn’t a surprise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very interesting angle on indirect effects and the positive impacts of being in balance.

      Delete
  6. My failure to perform my chores (especially those I am assigned over the weekend*) is the cause of most -but not all- the spankings, canings or floggings I usually get during the course of the week (and especially yesterday and earlier tonight)... N (my late wife) initiated the practice, and J. if anything, made it sterner...and more frequent!
    L.

    ReplyDelete
  7. L: You know I expect you to perform those chores - and you know what happens when you don't (at least not to my satisfaction)... You got the martinet twice yesterday, and the rattan cane earlier today - but you know you deserved it (and will probably need it again within a couple of days)...
    J

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not "a couple of days" - but barely 24 hours! - and a hefty strapping with J's "Italian bridle"! Whether i "deserved" it or not (especially after J and B's "12 days of Xmas" performance) doesn't seem to matter!
      My derrière is in a sorry state - and I guess there is more to come!

      L


      Delete
    2. Probably -or should I say "certainly"? - but it all depends on your behavior... which, as you well know, often requires a firm use of the martinet, the strap, the rattan cane - or the maple switches which you obediently bring me as needed (and are put to soak in water and vinegar until needed!)
      J

      Delete
    3. J or L, if you are on Fetlife, please contact me. Your situation interests me and I would love to know more about it. I am cowboy_lac on Fetlife

      Delete
  8. This describes how I live my life - "When it comes to developing good habits, what you do every day is more impactful than what you do every once in a while..." "It's kind of like the "broken windows" approach to policing, ... petty crimes degrade the neighborhood and give people less of a sense that the rules matter.

    I became very good at the above thanks to my years with Aunt Kay. Any time people come into my house I get surprised comments about the exceptional cleanliness and orderliness. When I have a planned visitor coming there is usually very little to do in the way of special cleaning preparation.

    I was genuinely happy to do "chores" because when I did them I always imagined how they would make her life more enjoyable. For example; vacuuming I would think about how her feet would be happy walking on the fluffed carpets. Same with clean and well made bed. And I admit to having been an odd, love drunk guy, who holds on to the good habits she instilled in me almost al the time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There IS something pretty damn pleasing about walking through freshly vacuumed carpet, isn't there?

      The challenge for us in all this is at home I tend to be more orderly than my wife. By a long shot. Interestingly, at work I'm a total slob who tends to spread out to cover whatever horizontal space is available in my office.

      Delete
    2. Well, I must admit that my office is somewhat less "pristine" than the rest of the house. Ha

      Delete
  9. Under "usual" circumstances, we divide the work. Husband usually does the "guy" jobs, like taking out the trash, cutting grass, picking up what the litterbugs throw in the street, carrying things upstairs or downstairs. He's handy, too, so he fixes things around the house. I usually do what is traditionally considered the "women's jobs" like cleaning, scrubbing, dishes and vacuuming. Mom just does something if she sees it needs doing. Since she's helping with baby, we don't ask her to do anything, but she just does it. If he forgets to do something or doesn't notice something needs to get done, we just ask him about it and he sees to it, We've had to remind him, sometimes.

    If the hotel keeps me, usually husband and Mom will cover for me. if husband's work keeps him, his share just gets done when it gets done.

    Of course, this changes once he's under Discipline or in Chastity. When that happens, I'm in charge and will make him do my jobs and he has to do them to my satisfaction or there are consequences. If Mom does something before he gets a chance but after I've told him to do it, he gets consequences, too. I also make him do "frivolous" jobs like feather dusting things that don't need to be dusted or "positioning" lamps or other smaller objects he can move while in a maid dress and petticoats. Yes, I have a dress code for when he gets extra chores. For the scrubbing and dishes, he has to wear the hotel maid dress. For vacuuming and "frivolous" chores, he has to wear the satin maid dress and petticoats. And I make him change, too, if he has both "dirty" chores and vacuuming, light or "frivolous" chores.

    For the TLDR crowd, we divide the chores until he's under Discipline or in Chastity. When that happens, he gets most of the chores.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very common sense approach.

      Fuck the TLDR crowd. If they don't like actual communication, they are free to go somewhere else.

      Delete
    2. Miss Cecilia’s several references to the phrase “under discipline” takes me back to a period in my relationship with the girlfriend who introduced me to spanking and discipline. She used that phrase and a related one “discipline rules” to signal to me that I was now expected to obey her implicitly and I was in trouble with her and probably about to be punished. It meant I segued immediately to obedience and acceptance of her authority. I am surprised how out of mind it has become to me because it was a very important part of our relationship then. We were not in any kind of 24/7 relationship then as far as discipline was concerned. It was a little complicated as I remember it. She had full authority but did not exercise it until I was told “discipline rules” were in effect or I was “under discipline”. Things usually moved pretty quickly after she announced discipline rules were in effect and if I was going to be punished it happened then and there. In fact we actually worked out a signal that she was finished and I was no longer under discipline rules. I don’t think she ever completely stopped using that phrase but as time went on she made it clear her authority was never to be questioned or challenged so there wasn’t much need for any kind of verbal signal
      Alan

      Delete
    3. Dan, I don't know what TDLR means. But I think you should tell us how you really reel. Ha.

      Delete
    4. Tomy, I didn't know what TLDR was either so I had to look it up....but the explanation looked long so I didn't read it.

      Delete
    5. Like Alan's relationship with his old girlfriend, we aren't full time, 24/7 or whatever. Only when I announce to him he's going into Chastity or he's under Discipline, am I in charge.

      I'll ask him to dress a lot just because I like him dressed. I'm not in charge if I ask him. Of course, if I've announced he's going into Chastity or he's under Discipline, I'll order him to dress and he has to.

      In the last months of my pregnancy, when I didn't have a lot of energy, he did put on a maid dress and petticoats, gave me his bell and told me he'd wait on me. Of course, I took advantage, but, if he forgot something or wasn't fast enough, he didn't get consequences, because he was being his usual sweet, considerate self by offering to wait on me and dressing up to do it. He was being a gentleman, even though he was dressed like a sissy.

      Delete
    6. Miss Cecilia,
      Is he immune to discipline until you make that "under Discipline" announcement? With us it became a moot point after a while because it became understood she was in control even if not exercising her authority in some explicit way and I was never immune. But for a period as I described, announcing "discipline rules" really was a major boundary. Also do you have a specific signal you use to tell him he is no longer under discipline or chastity? Or is that something you expect him to figure out?
      Thanks
      Alan

      Delete
    7. He's not immune to discipline, he just doesn't have to follow protocols and rules if he's not under Discipline or in Chastity. If he disobeys one of my Rules, he goes under Discipline or in Chastity or both. I'm not in control if he's not under Discipline or in Chastity. I do get to say when he's under Discipline or he goes in Chastity. I have to have a reason, though. I don't just say "You're under discipline" or "You're getting Chastity" and not have a reason. I don't have to tell him why when I announce it, but, I do have to tell him why before the lock snaps shut or I pull down his panties for a spanking. Like you and that girlfriend, the announcement is a "boundary".

      There's an exception for what I call "security" or "peace of mind" chastity. This happens if I have to be at the hotel but he wants to go out to a bar with his friends. It goes back to our early days of dating when I was really insecure. I always let him know my schedule or, if I'm going to be held up. I usually keep a chastity cage in my purse.. He comes by the hotel, I take him to an "out of service" room and lock him up. When I get home the next morning, I'll wake him up and take it off.

      If it's Disciplinary Chastity, his Chastity is over when I say it is. We have a locking up ritual for Disciplinary Chastity. I tell him how long he's going to be in Chastity. Usually, he's not locked up that long, as I'll trade days for certain things.

      Once I inform him he's under Discipline, he's under Discipline until I tell him he's not anymore.

      Delete
    8. This is all fascinating because we all seem to be committed to female authority, male discipline and at least some corporal punishment. But the details differ enormously for each couple.
      Alan

      Delete
    9. Hi Alan. It's kind of reassuring, because I think it would be problematic if people felt there was some kind of prescriptive formula or set of rules for these relationships. It does seem that of the three commitments you list, there is tremendous variability in the degree of wifely authority, its agreed upon limitations, etc.

      Delete
  10. In my first 24/7, DD relationship, a marriage, my wife taught me very well HOW to to the chores she assigned to me. At the beginning of the relationship, while I was learning, I was spanked very often, right after a chore was done. Sometimes two and three times a day. A quick learner, I got the hang of it and was fairly good at what I was assigned. Then the spankings were because I forgot or neglected to to them on time. My current relationship started off with many spankings as I was learning HER way of doing things and her desires. Now sufficiently trained, I do not get spanked very often for chores unless I forget. A bare bottom spanking is the punishment used and most often applied immediately. We have no special attire here as I am kept fully nude whenever in the house, so to designate chore time, I must wear nipple clamps or she inserts a butt plug. Being held accountable has made me a better sub partner in our female-led relationship.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Forgetfulness is at the root of soooo many things that get screwed up in my life. It is becoming harder and harder to follow a task from conception through the one minute walk to whatever other room I was going to perform that task in. It's very depressing.

      Delete
    2. Wow, I can relate to the forgetfulness thing. In fact, I almost never intentionally leave a task undone or partially done, but rather it is just that I entirely forget, or forget long enough that even though I remember, there isn't time to finish it when it needs to be done.

      -ZM

      Delete
  11. Danielle here:

    As I have said before, I think it is a no brainer that in a FLR (as opposed to a plain DD marriage in which the wife isn’t truly the boss) chores for hubby are going to be a big part of it. I started off assigning chores, but after Wayne retired things became simpler: housekeeping became his job, so I no longer had to “assign” chores. I expected him to do everything that would have been expected of a stay-at-home 50’s housewife.

    Dan, your confessions about doing a “half assed” job on chores made me laugh because Wayne has often been guilty of that. It made me wonder if all men are like that. I grew up in a traditional, patriarchal household where, as the girl of the family, I had to help my mother with all the housework. She was strict about doing things properly, so I would be severely scolded and sometimes spanked for doing a sloppy job. For that reason, I tend to be demanding of Wayne. I tell him that if he had grown up as a girl under my mother’s authority he would have learned that doing a job means doing it completely. For example, if you do the dishes, you clean the counter and stove tops thoroughly too. Why would Wayne think that he has done an adequate clean up if the stove top is still dirty?

    For Wayne the usual consequence of not doing something thoroughly is a lecture about my expectations and having to drop whatever he is doing to complete the task to my satisfaction. Generally, I only add spanking or some other form of punishment (loss of allowance, suspension of privileges) if he gets snippy or rolls his eyes when I lecture him. So punishment is more attitude adjustment than a penalty for poor performance.

    I should point out that over the last few months our FLR groove has been diminished and disrupted by a series of worrisome health problems Wayne has had. On top of that, before Christmas one of our sons moved back home temporarily for reasons I won’t go into. That has not only cramped my style, it has greatly reduced Wayne’s sexual feelings about D/s. Part of the reason FLR has worked well in our case is that it turned Wayne on. When his sex drive is disrupted by ill health and anxiety, however, things become tricky. We still have a FLR of sorts, and Wayne says he still wants one, but I can’t say I feel confident about my right to be strict at this point. That’s one reason I have withdrawn from participation here lately.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Danielle. Welcome back! Your comments hits home on a couple of levels. First, it very well may happen in relatively short order that my retirement precedes my wife's. Guess I should think about the implications of that for my chores list!

      Second, you may have struck on something that explains my cavalier approach to chores. My family was definitely a traditional one in which my mom did most of the housework while the men worked and did the traditional male tasks, like fixing cars, plumbing repairs, etc. Being spanked for doing a sloppy job, as you were, definitely was not part of the equation. Also, I do think men are often more comfortable with leaving a stove uncleaned because, hey, it's just going to get dirty again, right? :-)

      I too am really sorry to hear Wayne is still not doing well. I'm hoping for the best for you both. And, I definitely get how illness and anxiety can strip all the DD and other kinky feelings right out you.

      Delete
    2. Hi, Danielle, sorry about Wayne, but I hope it turns around quickly. However, the pattern you describe is very similar to what happens here....maybe with a little difference here and there. But other than the cause not be health-related for us, the pattern of the sterilization of the playful, DD aspect is spot on. Even other comments here sort of clearly put even 'serious' chores into a adult rationale for some DD outlet. That's why I asked about the withdrawal when things go wrong as opposed to punishment resulting. When Rosa has one of her anxiety attacks, she has no desire to engage in DD as a possible outlet, but when things are happy and good, she will use a real issue as fuel for some DD stress-relief.

      Delete
    3. Before DD I used to withdraw from Art's arrogance unless it was toward the children, when I would become Mama Bear. Now I can threaten or employ DD, a much better alternative than either withdrawal or explosion.

      Our DD is narrowly restricted to this one issue, and while the rest of our life is quite good, there are some things that arise where withdrawal is still my main response. We both just let it go and often that is enough. If I continue to feel resentment, though, then I will discuss it with him later. Sometimes this is about help with chores.
      Liz

      Delete
    4. Danielle here:

      Thank you for your kind words, Dan and KD.

      Dan, if you are interested in exploring an FLR dynamic in greater depth, you retiring before your wife may provide an exciting opportunity. Wayne retiring was a game changer for us because it freed me from considerations about “fairness” in our division of household labour. Wayne’s health problems have complicated that lately, and I have actually started to do some of the housework again, but that’s a separate issue. I hope you have lots of time to experience life as your wife’s domesticated “househusband” without the interference of health concerns. That could be fun for both of you.

      By the way, your argument “why clean the stove when it is only going to get dirty again” is a classic! LOL Wayne has actually tried using that. He has made it, for example, as an excuse not to have made the bed. Why make the bed when you’re only going to mess it up again at the end of the day? Actually, he came up with another ingenious excuse for failing to make the bed. He claims that when you make the bed too quickly, it provides the opportunity for little critters (mites) to multiply in the darkness under the covers, so it is good not to make the bed every day so the sheets are exposed to the sterilizing effect of sunlight. He even offered to show me articles about that. My response was to tell him to strip the bed and launder the sheets more frequently. LOL

      KD, I think you asked a good question about household chores being a “no win situation”, because no matter how much you do, a perfectionist could ask for more. When I was growing up, my mother was a perfectionist about housework to a degree that was neurotic in my opinion, so I could never escape criticism and was unfairly punished sometimes. I feel resentment about that to this day. Therefore, even in my strictest enforcement of domestic servitude, I was never that perfectionist with Wayne. But then, I didn’t have to be a perfectionist to make Wayne feel “under my thumb” in a way that was erotic for him and satisfying for me.

      I can understand completely, KD, why Rosa has no desire to engage in DD when she has an anxiety attack. I wouldn’t either. Not only does anxiety take the sexual fun out of DD, it undermines confidence, and dominating one’s partner takes confidence, I find. Under our current circumstances, I lack the confidence to be a bitch, though Wayne is the one suffering from anxiety more than I am. The last time I spanked Wayne, he submitted to it without question, but I had the feeling that he was going through the motions. He still says he wants a FLR, and he doesn’t question my authority to give him orders or to punish him when I see fit, but it’s like the sexual spark has gone out of it for him, so it feels a bit pointless to me for the moment.

      Delete
    5. Hi Danielle. I'm pretty sure unilateral retirement with me doing all the chores would be more fun for her than for me! I'm definitely not one of those "true submissives" who actually enjoy service. Though, there are some things I don't do now, like cooking, that I'd like to do more of if time were not an issue. Though, cooking is kind of a frustrating hobby for me, because it requires some level of patience and sustained attention. On the rare occasions I do cook, I tend to burn things a lot, largely because I get bored, then distracted, then I mover on to something else and take my attention away from what's happening on the stove.

      I do hope things get better with Wayne's health soon.

      Delete
  12. So sorry to hear he is sick. Prayers and good thoughts your way, Danielle.
    Liz

    ReplyDelete
  13. I haven't posted here before but have to on this topic because chores is what started our FLR and DD.

    We had been married seven years and it was a constant power struggle. We both worked outside the home and came home tired and not wanting to cook, clean, etc. I had the traditional notion that inside the house was women's work and outside was men's, not realizing how much more inside work there was.

    She would get really mad when I did not help and start bi***ing me out until I agreed to do some chore. I resented her yelling and resented doing the chore itself, but I also noticed I got turned on when she "forced" me to do a chore. I began fantasizing about her slapping me or putting me over her knee if I argued with her about a chore she assigned.

    I did not have any spanking kink before this and was surprised I was feeling this way, though my mother was quite bossy and authoritarian and did spank on occasion. Eventually I confessed to my wife and suggested that she demand up front that I do certain chores rather than her insistence coming at the end of an argument and that she enforce her authority with face-slapping and spanking. She thought I was joking at first but I convinced her I was not and she said she would think about it. Three weeks later she presented me her "manifesto" and said I had to accept it all or nothing. She wrote:

    I am not comfortable slapping your face but will gladly beat your ass. You MUST agree to ALL of the following.

    1. I will never clean a toilet again. You will do ALL chores I give you, without complaint and up to my standards, or I will beat your ass until you do.

    2. You will stop arguing immediately when I tell you to, and you will accept my position without an attitude even if you think it is wrong or I will beat your ass.

    3. You will stop trying to control my spending. I will be in charge of all of our finances and you will not spend more than $100 on anything without my permission or I will beat your ass.

    4. You will never ask for another blowjob. If I choose to give you one, that is up to me. You will eat me on command for as long as I want and how I want or I will beat your ass until you do.

    5. I can add anything I want to this list and you will accept it or I will beat your ass until you do.

    Believe it or not, I was ready to agree immediately but she told me I had to take a week to think about it and that during that week she would give me chores so I could see what it would be like. Then she said she was going to give me an ass-beating so I knew what I was getting myself into. She proceeded to use a wooden spoon on my bare bottom and spanked me until I was begging for her to stop. She then sent me to do all the bathrooms in the house.

    A week later we both signed her manifesto and I had it laminated so we could refer to it forever. She hasn't cleaned a toilet in six years, all of the other things have transpired, and we are much happier, with barely ever an argument, though my ass has received many attitude-adjusting beatings.
    Pete

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Pete. I wonder how prevalent face slapping is in these relationships? It certainly would demonstrate control and dissatisfaction, but it somehow seems qualitatively different from the physical discipline involved in spanking.

      Delete
    2. We don't do face slapping. Neither of us like the idea.

      Delete
    3. I agree with Dan that face-slapping is qualitatively different. To me it is much more dominant than spanking and no longer maternal: it is clearly the WIFE taking command and not acting like the husband's mother.

      I fantasize about her making me kneel in front of her and put my hands behind my back to submit to the slaps. The fact that we could make eye contact and that I could see the slap coming and have to try not to flinch makes this deeply submissive. For some reason I crave it though it is unlikely to ever happen. But there is a chance. A few months ago she was angry with me and said "Maybe I should redden all four of your cheeks." I replied, "Yes, Ma'am." It did not happen, but the threat was real and a guy can hope.
      Pete

      Delete
    4. I agree that face-slapping somehow seems significantly different than spanking. It does seem less maternal in some way, though I am not sure why, since it is also very much something that used to happen to children.

      Regarding looking in her in the eye while she is punishing you and the feelings of submission (and trying not to flinch) are certainly true. I can't speak for face-slapping, since she has never done that, but the same thing applies in hand strapping, which she has done several times.

      -ZM

      Delete
    5. N (and J) have - infrequently - slapped my face... but always when a "real" punishment was not immediately possible. It served as a warning of what I could expect later - and which never failed to happen as soon as we got home...
      L

      Delete
  14. Dan, we seem to be starting from opposite ends and meeting in the middle. While you started with rather serious offenses and strong spankings, we started with trivial rules and beginner spankings. My wife had never spanked anyone and it took quite a while for her to develop the courage and technique needed to deliver a true punishment spanking. The problem we had was that as the spankings became more severe, they seemed disproportionately harsh for the rather trivial offenses they were punishing. For example, one of my rules is to not spill food on my shirt. I admit it. I can be messy. When the spankings were fairly mild, they were good punishment for this and I actually learned to be a neater eater.

    Our agreed objective was for my wife to learn to identify situations when I annoy her or interrupt her. It's a bad habit I have. She's been working to identify these situations and to punish them. Her severe, disciplinary spankings are appropriate in these cases. What about chores?

    Like most of us, I have chores I'm supposed to complete. When I forget them or do them sloppily, I expect to be punished. My wife feels that a harsh spanking is too much for such a small matter as forgetting a chore. She's been trying some childish punishments like mouth soaping and corner time. I'm not sure that's effective for me.

    We do have a FLR and the childish punishments fit into that pretty well. It's just that over the years I've learned that I'm punished with spankings. The other stuff is more BDSM play. We haven't figured out how to effectively punish lesser offenses.

    By the way, I'm supposed to remember "punishment days". These are days (Monday Thursday and Saturday) that my wife established when we first began as times to review my behavior and administer punishments. She's long stopped needing them, but she likes the idea that I remind her. I've had a problem remembering to remind her on Saturdays. She used some childish punishments the first three times I forgot. The fourth time I was surprised when she told me I would be receiving a real spanking. If I couldn't learn with small punishments, then I would learn with a much more painful one. It worked. Maybe I need a butt burner to learn anything nowadays.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi CL. I get what you mean about there needing to be proportionality, i.e. something chores should merit less severe discipline than, say, driving drunk, being a jerk in an argument, etc. I do think it makes total sense, though my wife does tend to be pretty binary, all or nothing on severity.

      Delete
  15. Even before our transition to a DWC marriage, we were very much a partnership marriage when it came to chores and responsibilities. We both have a generally strong work ethic - and as Tomy talked about above, we both chipped in to see that the house stayed in good shape the great majority of the time. This has not changed in our years as a DWC marriage - and Susan has not "used the threat of discipline" to do less work. The few exceptions to this have been special projects that she asked me to take care of - usually "guy stuff" - which I would often put off as long as I could. Susan would remind me a couple of times - as most wives would (DD or not) - but after a couple of times, and with no warning, she would decide that I obviously needed some motivation - and I would get my ass well blistered, and given a time deadline as to when it had to be completed. If it wasn't completed by then, I would be given an even more severe spanking, and sent to do it immediately (or as soon as reasonably possible). I never had to get that second spanking - that first one was always sufficiently motivational.

    As always, these type conversations bring up the interesting array of ways in which couples use the DWC lifestyle. For some, it may be motivating their husbands to do their chores, for others it may be applied in an effort to break bad habits, or to improve behaviors - lots of others. For us, it has been primarily to a means to motivate me to practice greater humility and deference, to curb my arrogant attitude and behaviors - with some degree of success, although it remains an ongoing effort. --al

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Al. There do seem to be myriad issues that couples use DD to address. I wonder if there is a hierarchy of effectiveness based on whether the wife is (a) trying to encourage the husband to do something he is not doing or not doing well (chores); (b) trying to make him stop doing something he is current doing (breaking a bad habit); or (c) motivating some change in how the husband treats the wife or others? I have no data at all to back it up, even anecdotally, but my guess is it is least effective in breaking bad habits, while adopting new good behaviors and treating people better are more amenable to change.

      Delete
    2. While in my experience it hasn't totally broken him of his bad habits, it has really reduced them. I started him on DD to try to break him of some of his habits. I thought this would be a chance to get rid of them. At best, it simply got them to a minimum, but, in the process, I also saw an opportunity to get him to be more considerate of other people. That's where DD has been most effective for us.

      I have no doubt he would have been helpful and considerate of me during the last months of my pregnancy, but if it weren't for DD, I don't think he would have thought of putting on his maid uniform, giving me a bell and waiting on me hand and foot. If I'd asked him, he would have, but, he just did it without being asked. Even when he wasn't being my maid, he was always offering to do more than I expected. I might not know my own power :)!

      Delete
    3. Our own discipline happened for similar reasons, namely to break me of rotten habits and from acting spoiled. My wife was still my girlfriend the first time she spanked me, although it wasn't much more than foreplay. It did excite my desire to be submissive to my wife even though I didn't fully come to understand why until long after we were married. Discipline even cooled off for a few years due to responsibilities to family and parents. Now my wife rules the marriage and even rules in the area of my orgasms and our intimacy. No complaints though as we are very happy. My wife has taught me on a number of occasions that she's boss. As far as chores, they are split at probably 70 and 30 percent, with me doing the greatest number. Having a female led marriage worked for us. It's ironic that people are subordinate to me in my office, and I report to dominant wife at home. My assistant, who has been with me for many years and is a close friend of both my wife and I, actually knows my wife is the boss at home. She discovered it accidentally but we know her well and she has kept is private.

      Delete
  16. We started our FLR with fines for me swearing. I had asked my wife to spank me but she refused for months. But she got the idea that she had much more authority than she had ever imagined. She began telling me I had to do certain chores. That indirectly led to spanking because she fined me so often for swearing or not doing chores that i ran out of money! So she started spanking and realized she didn't mind it and it worked. That is what i wanted all along.

    What I did not realize is that she would take control sexually and use that power to help get chores done. Now we only have any sexual contact when she wants and how she wants. She uses this to motivate my chores. She will come up behind me at the sink and pat my bottom and whisper "If you do a great job with all the chores tonight, i might play with that thing of yours." This helps me because I get turned on and have more energy to get the chores done. I don't mind them because I am thinking about the fun to come if I do the chores right and the spanking if I do them wrong. FLR wins either way!
    Anton

    ReplyDelete
  17. Hi Dan,
    First I will answer your questions in this comment, then go off on a tangent like I often do in a separate comment! ;-)

    Q: Do chores play a role in your Domestic Discipline relationship?  Who assigns them?  What chores is the disciplined husband required to perform?  What are the consequences for not doing them or doing them poorly?

    A: We haven’t went down the chore path on a regular, sustained basis, partly since we tend more towards the DD end of the spectrum, but mostly because we both work full time (and I usually work quite a bit more than that), and we both do a lot around the house. I cook the vast majority of the time, do the grocery shopping, go to pay the bills (no mail or online here!), do household repairs, etc. She cleans the house, does laundry, and so on.

    The closest we have come to assigned chores is when she either tells me to do some task and gives me a deadline, or occasionally she will just point out something that has been left undone forever, which should have been obvious. While this seems about the same, it is quite different than if I had a list of regular responsibilities, since it is more random and is more episode based. However, when I mentioned that the weeks topic was “chores,” she showed an unhealthy interest, so we will see what transpires. I kind of expect that chores might be used more as punishment, and likely enhanced with different things to make them more unpleasant or humiliating, but also more interesting due to them being sexualized.

    In any case, to finish the rest of this question, if chores are assigned, it is by her, but usually with agreement on my part; by the time she makes a point about something, it is usually pretty obviously needed. She could of course assign whatever she wants, but she is very inclined to fairness, and we also see eye to eye on just about everything. Also, in the event of an assigned task not being done or done properly, it would result in punishment (generally spanking) and being made to complete it correctly.

    Q: Ladies, do you assign chores to your husband?  If not, would you like to?  If you do, is there any protocol or standard you apply to inspecting his work and deciding whether it is sufficient?  If he doesn’t do a chore or does it poorly, how consistent are you in dealing with that?  What are the consequences?  A lecture?  A spanking?  Some other form of punishment?

    A: We didn’t get a chance to talk about this much during the week, but I am pretty sure how she would answer. She feels bad about assigning many chores, because I already work too much. At the same time, I do always find time to do what I want to do, so she would like to see me be more proactive in getting to things, especially household repairs. If she assigns something, there is no chance that she won’t check on it and punish if it wasn’t done, but she doesn’t assign things very often at all.

    -ZM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "However, when I mentioned that the weeks topic was “chores,” she showed an unhealthy interest . . ." Sorry about that!

      Delete
  18. Hi Dan,
    Now for the part that really resonated with me on this topic. Chores are certainly an interesting enough topic in and of themselves, but for me, it is more your mention of "small things" that caught my attention this week. We talked about this some a year or two back, but I think there is tremendous power in small things. I agree 100% with your statement: "I also do believe that encouraging a level of submission to authority and holding me accountable for small things has ripple effects, at least if done consistently.  When it comes to developing good habits, what you do every day is more impactful than what you do every once in a while even if the latter is bigger, weightier or harder.  When I'm undisciplined and sloppy in small, everyday areas, that can't help but spill over into bigger things."

    That. That is exactly me, and exactly describes my primary problem. I tend to skim over details, which wouldn't be that big of a deal individually, but when done repeatedly it leads to sloppy habits, an undisciplined life, and chaos.

    The longer I am actively involved in this lifestyle (rather than just thinking about it like I did for 40 some years before), the more convinced I am that consistency is the real key to effective discipline and to building a more disciplined life.

    A common fantasy seems to be that you want her to spank you, and then sometime you do something that makes her very mad, and she spanks you much harder than you ever dreamed was possible - the whole "be careful what you wish for" scenario - and of course you never repeat that behavior. But reality might just as likely be her assigning small chores, monitoring behaviors and habits, and so on, and in the end her helping to bring about dramatic change because of years of consistency addressing these small things.

    The one thing that I do think is hard about it though is the idea of fairness, which you also mentioned: "More than just about any spanking she had given me for 'bigger' issues, where we both agreed they merited not only spankings but very hard ones, getting spanked so hard for a poorly done chore was a powerful experience that showed her really stepping into her role."

    I think this is a common problem, especially as wives are gaining experience, because in order for it to be a real punishment for an adult, a spanking must be quite hard and long. This is especially true if the recipient is an adult who may fantasize about spanking. So pretty much EVERY punishment is going to be relatively big, and this doesn't seem quite as fair for seemingly "small" things. It is only by the wife seeing the bigger picture and realizing that by addressing the small things, she is also addressing the bigger issues that the whole thing seems in any way fair or proportional. Is it fair to spank me to tears because I leave my socks on the floor? Of course not! On the other hand, is is fair to spank me to tears because I continually let deadlines slip past, ultimately jeopardizing our quality of living? Sure. Is it fair to spank me tears because I eat a hamburger and too many fries? Probably not. Is it fair to spank me to help me change my eating habits and massively improve my health, greatly increasing the chances I can live for many more years and enjoy life, family, etc. Of course.

    So only by seeing that the small things and the big things are really all just parts of the same picture can she feel good about consistently monitoring these little day to day things and enforcing seemingly minor lapses with severe enough punishments that they can help to effect real change.

    -ZM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "The longer I am actively involved in this lifestyle (rather than just thinking about it like I did for 40 some years before), the more convinced I am that consistency is the real key to effective discipline and to building a more disciplined life." I couldn't agree more. And, where personal behavior and achieving goals is concerned, small slippages can be deadly. It was that kind of week for me. I had been really good on several fronts since around Christmas Eve. Very little alcohol, working out every single day, maintaining the intermittent fasting diet I had started trying before Christmas, etc. Then, this week it started to slip. I got very little sleep on Sunday night, which left me really exhausted on Monday. For some reason, I had a really hard time getting back on my feet, and it may be that I was fighting some illness, because I did try to catch up on sleep on Monday and Tuesday but it didn't seem to help. When I get tired, I get really hungry, so the diet started to slip and I started doing a lot of snacking. On Wednesday, I had a breakfast meeting and after one of my companions ordered breakfast, I just couldn't resist some bacon and eggs. So, there went the track record on fasting. Then, yesterday I had a long flight delay, and I was still feeling lousy, so I decided to treat myself to an afternoon beer while sitting at the airport. One became two, then two drinks on the plane. I woke up very tired today and had some early morning calls, which led to blowing off my workout today.

      My point is, I went from being really self-disciplined to one or two small slips, and everything went downhill fast from there.

      Delete
    2. We DD men are no good at holding ourselves accountable. That's why we need our wives to punish us and force us to behave.
      Pete

      Delete

This blog is a curated resource for those genuinely and positively interested in DD and FLR lifestyles. Comments that are rude, uncivil, inconsistent with the blog's theme or off-topic may not be posted or may be removed.