Saturday, January 18, 2020

The Club - Meeting 327 - Consistency & Slippage


“It's not what we do once in a while that shapes our lives. It's what we do consistently.” – Tony Robbins

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.  I hope you all had a great week.

It’s a depressing pattern that I often can measure the length of my adherence to New Years resolutions around health and balance in days countable on one hand. I did a little better than that this year.  If you count the pre-New Years, post-Christmas period when I was uncharacteristically well behaved, I had a window of 23 days in which I really did get my act together.  It didn’t come to a screeching halt exactly, but the very high resolve I was feeling, and executing on, around health issues definitely started to dissipate this week in the face of the usual challenges – travel, exhaustion, and doing that “just one” think that leads to a chain of lower standards and increased slacking. 

An exchange with ZM highlights the issue and this week’s topic.  He observed,
"The longer I am actively involved in this lifestyle (rather than just thinking about it like I did for 40 some years before), the more convinced I am that consistency is the real key to effective discipline and to building a more disciplined life."

I responded that I couldn't agree more and discussed how this week’s events illustrate the challenge. I noted (in slightly edited form):

“Where personal behavior and achieving goals are concerned, small slippages can be deadly. It was that kind of week for me. I had been really good on several fronts since around Christmas Eve. Very little alcohol, working out every single day, maintaining the diet I had started before Christmas, etc. Then, this week it started to slip. I got very little sleep on Sunday night, which left me really exhausted on Monday. For some reason, I had a really hard time getting back on my feet, and it may be that I was fighting some illness, because I did try to catch up on sleep on Monday and Tuesday but it didn't seem to help. When I get tired, I get really hungry, so the diet started to slip and I started doing a lot of snacking and So, there went the track record on fasting. Then, yesterday I had a long flight delay, and I was still feeling lousy, so I decided to treat myself to an afternoon beer while sitting at the airport. One became two, then those became two drinks on the plane. I woke up very tired today and had some early morning calls, which led to blowing off my workout today. My point is, I went from being really self-disciplined to one or two small slips, and everything went downhill fast from there.

I sometimes come down on myself pretty hard where such slippages are concerned.  This time, I’m cutting myself a little slack.  I do think something was going on this week with a bug or something.  I just felt really, really off and tired all week.  And, I have been exercising so diligently with pretty hard workouts, I may have let myself drift into a state of pretty severe overtraining, and my body simply pushed back and refused to keep going at that pace.  But, it does still illustrate how one slip leads to another leads to another. . . .

Now, in an ideal world, Domestic Discipline would be there as an extra little incentive when our efforts at self-discipline waver.  And, theoretically it is.  Yet, consistency seems to be a very consistent challenge even for well-established DD relationships.  Why?

Well, there are all sorts of impediments.  ZM’s comment explored a particularly interesting angle – the complicated relationship between consistency, severity, and perceived “fairness.”  He noted: "In order for it to be a real punishment for an adult, a spanking must be quite hard and long. This is especially true if the recipient is an adult who may fantasize about spanking. So pretty much EVERY punishment is going to be relatively big, and this doesn't seem quite as fair for seemingly "small" things.”  


I’m not sure I agree with that, though I also don’t have a lot of personal experience to counter it.  My wife is pretty binary in her approach to spanking.  Each one is hard and long.  Every time. That may not seem fair in the context of “small” things like chores, but that’s largely an academic concern since the plain fact is she is not at all consistent with punishing for such small things.  In fact, spanking for things like poorly done chores and other small offenses is the exception, not the rule. It’s not really a matter of fairness.  Rather, she just doesn’t think about going right to spanking for “small” things. 

I think there also is a very practical timing and effort issue at play; we can’t expect busy wives to take 30 minutes out of their day to deliver a long, hard punishment spanking on a frequent basis.  But, I’m not sure that is what is required. I do agree with ZM that severity is a big part of the equation when it comes to effectiveness, but I wonder whether it may come unnecessarily at the expense of consistency.  I recounted the example of getting a hard spanking for repeated failures to clean a rice cooker.  What if instead of giving one really long, hard spanking after repeated failures, she had given a short but intense paddling each time after one warning?  What if, upon discovering the latest failure, she just took out a paddle and delivered ten or fifteen really hard swats?  The whole thing could be done in under a couple of minutes.  If done consistently, I think that approach might be even more effective than one longer but overdue session with her paddle.

  
Of course, fairness and timing issues are hardly the only impediments we face when it comes to consistency.  Family and guests are chronic issues that get in the way of any kind of consistency, and it’s been a very big issue for us over the last month and isn’t going to get better for another month or two.  While those distractions are always going to be there, the degree to which they prevent discipline from happening is still a series of choices.  We could choose to be more open, such that if visiting adult kids overhear a spanking, then they overhear it.  Or, we could experiment with something more silent like the cane, for short, intense sessions that might not be overheard and would take only a few minutes. 


Or, we could be more diligent and flexible about working in a spanking during those inevitable brief moments when the kids or guests are out of the house for an hour or two.  The point is, distractions are inevitable but allowing them to completely frustrate needed discipline is a personal choice.

Then there are my chronic failures around self-reporting.  She has her entrenched issues around “fairness,” and do I “really” want her to assume such rigorous control, while I have my own entrenched mindset that resists the embarrassment of coming forward on my own to admit that I've done certain things wrong, and in so doing basically initiate my own spanking.  



One big question I have around consistency is directed to the wives: Which is harder, being consistent, or not being.  I really can see this cutting either way. On the one hand, consistency does take effort, and concerns about fairness and equity probably do lead to a lot of self-doubt about just how rigorous to be. But, what if you really did just let those concerns go and step fully into an empowered role?  Wouldn’t that be tremendously freeing, even if it meant some additional work in terms of stepping up and swinging the paddle more often?  A blogging friend of mine had a post a few years ago that really summed this up well.  Here is an excerpt, and you can find the entire post here:  https://learningandlivingaflr.blogspot.com/2015/07/operation-boss-lady.html

“I often struggle with balance or worrying about my husband feeling something is unfair or that it could be "too much."  The vast majority of contributors all suggest just taking control, owning it and acknowledging that while resistance or "unfairness" may happen, it is kind of what we each signed up for in deciding to walk this path.  In fact, my husband does not want an equal relationship. He wants me to lead. So in spending countless time and energy trying to make it seem or feel equal or worrying too much about the impact something will have, I am really just spinning my wheels and depriving us both of what we actually need/want. It was this realization that got me back on the path of leading.

While I feared increased control or strictness could breed resentment, it has the opposite effect.  He needs the structure and the clarity. He needs the consistency and knowing what is expected. I also think, although probably less so in the moment, that he craves the accountability as well.  Being in this type of relationship really requires some shifts in conventional thinking and finding ways to make sense of concepts that perhaps seem counter intuitive.  It is the difference between viewing follow up as being a nag or as holding him accountable.

It also is not just better for him. It is better for me.  It is easier for me to know that when I make a decision, it will be followed because I am not leaving room for resistance. It is also easier because I have control over my own life and can be responsible for the choices I make, which also means I have no one to blame but myself if it turns out not to be the best choice.  It is just simpler and easier.”

That really makes total sense to me, but I’m not the one who would have primary responsibility for implementing something that all-encompassing.  I’d really like to get the perspectives of the wives on this one.
Let’s explore this topic of consistency in all its angles.  What level of consistency have you achieved in your DD relationship? Is consistency even a goal, or are you content with an on-again-off-again approach? For those for whom consistency is a desired state but remains challenging, what are the big impediments to getting there? What are you and your spouse willing to do, if anything, to overcome those impediments? 
For the wives for whom consistency is a problem, what are the challenges? Is it practical things like lack of available time, or is it more an an attitude issue? Is it concerns about “fairness” or whether he really wants it, or does training a husband like you would a child or a puppy just seem like too much of an investment of energy sometimes?  Does that kind of diligence and "always on" responsibility have a maternal vibe, and is that good or bad?
For the men, do you want your wives to be more consistent in setting boundaries and imposing consequences?  What do you do that makes it more difficult, like not reporting when you’ve been bad, trying to avoid a spanking or punishment, etc.? Have you talked to her frankly about any desire you have for her to keep you on a tighter, more consistent leash?
I hope you all have a great weekend.

55 comments:

  1. On this topic as far as consistency my wife is very consistent with punishment. When I mess up it's almost immediate that she will spank me. There are times when it's not possible but she will find a way like when we have guests she will take me to the bedroom for a spanking.

    If we are out somewhere she will tell me when we get home prepare yourself for a spanking. As far as keeping me on a tighter leash I'm not sure she can do much more. She is very strict and expects me to obey her. She strongly believes if she spanks hard and long on the little things I do wrong it will make me think before I do anything really big and it does make me think.

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    1. "She strongly believes if she spanks hard and long on the little things I do wrong it will make me think before I do anything really big and it does make me think." Interesting point. Thanks.

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  2. We have gone about the issue of consistency by just keeping things simple: - spanking every night without fail and she spanks me for whatever is bothering her without exception.

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  3. In our 24/7, DD we do not have much of a problem with consistency. Granted we do not have some of the problems others have like children or lack of time due to working for a living. She does not like to punish, but make no mistake, she will. Right from day one, we both said if we are doing this, we are doing it right. We have the advantage of being able to discipline immediately after the offense. Early in the relationship, I was spanked often, but began to learn her ways and discipline tapered off to the point we instituted a maintenance program. Unlike 'anonymous' above we did not want daily spankings, but our program is focused on three concepts, the third being maintenance acts as a 'catch all' for minor infractions which may not have warranted a spanking at the time. I have ratted on myself and go to her to confess. She always says OK, bend over, then delivers the punishment. On occasion she will come to me, implement in hand saying, you forgot 'whatever' this morning. I never quibble or debate or try to excuse myself. I bend over and again she delivers the punishment. Guests, if they are lifestyle folks, never deter her role in disciplining me. I have been spanked in front of these folks in our home and even in theirs. Once, at a lifestyle friends home, there were vanillas present, so she took me to an adjacent room and spanked me. So we are for the most part quite consistent with our DD lifestyle because I guess it is the way both of us want it to be.

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    1. "Granted we do not have some of the problems others have like children or lack of time due to working for a living." No kids and no work demands would certainly remove two of the largest impediments to consistency.

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  4. "Consistency" is undoubtedly the way both N (my late first wife) and J have applied "needed"discipline. I know when I am likely to be spanked or whipped - and why (although I am not necessarily told how severe my punishment will be). As a rule, I am expected to show my submission by presenting myself in the "appropriate" manner (i.e. bare-bottomed) - and, some times, by offering the "tools" that will be used. The "verdict" is seldom spelled out (the idea being that it will wholly depend on how serious she thinks my (mis)behavior requires)... I am also expected to show "contrition" - and thankfulness! - for the punishment I deserve. If my misbehavior (or failure to follow orders) has taken place in the presence of one of her "special" friends, they may be invited to watch (and, if needed, to "lend a hand"...) Most, by far, of these "disciplinary sessions" - which I get (at least!) twice a week are administered at home - in relative "private"... but those are often the sharpest ones!
    L

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  5. When we designed our DD together, consistency was an imperative: every Monday morning after the kids get on their school buses, I get paddled so I remember to be less arrogant at work and home. Recently we added Thursdays. Without this consistency, DD would not work for me and I doubt I would even attempt to continue it.

    I do understand that consistency is an issue for many couples, however, and that there are many reasons for it.
    Arthur

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    1. I'm sure that degree of consistency helps. Unfortunately, for us it wouldn't be something we could do, thanks to my travel schedule. Many mornings and evenings, I'm just not there.

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  6. Dan and others have talked about having difficulty with self-reporting. To me as a disciplinary wife, that is a key to consistently administering the appropriate punishment. We can't spank for misbehavior we don't know about! The recalcitrant husband knows he is getting away with something, and possibly feels his wife is not being strict enough. If the wife finds out about the misbehavior later, she feels her authority is being usurped because her miscreant is deciding when to be punished and when to avoid being punished. So she loses some of her enthusiasm for helping to change his behavior and may be inconsistent herself.

    Early in our DD relationship, Art had a problem with self-reporting, not because he was intentionally withholding but because he was so ignorant of his arrogance! He would be telling about his day and some exchange he had with a co-worker and I would say, "Don't you think you were being arrogant when you said that?" And he would look startled and agree. When arrogance is engrained as part of your persona, it's hard for the arrogant person to see it. Fortunately he liked to tell about his day at work, so I would help him recognize his arrogance and of course punish him for it at our Monday session. And we addressed during his punishment his lack of recognition. Over time he got much better about reporting.

    Self-reporting is a selfless level of honesty that is hard to achieve. But it is necessary for the husband who truly desires a consistent disciplinary wife to help him improve his behavior.
    Liz


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    1. I agree with Liz, Non-reporting may cause a missed discipline which was needed and undermines the consistency of her administering discipline. For this reason and the fact that if she later finds out, she feels I was attempting to 'get away' with misbehavior and the punishment is increased, that I always report my offenses to her. Sometimes, like the other day, she will waive the punishment, but most often she will administer the punishment right then and there.

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    2. Hi Liz. Great points, and I'm sure my wife would agree with many of them. It's also very true that we are often blind to our most deeply rooted character issues.

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  7. Hi Liz,

    For me I will self report but not always when I committed the offense. My wife does a weekly maintenance spanking which is on a Friday evening. She chose Friday evening after she gets home from work because we usually go out to dinner and she wants me to have a sore bottom while sitting in a restaurant. She figures it gives me something to think about.

    During our maintenance spanking she puts me over her knee and it's usually a set amount of whacks with her paddle. Usually 50 and when she reaches 50 she will stop and ask me if there is anything I need to confess. At that time I will tell her of something I might have done wrong then she will determine how many more whacks I will get with the paddle.

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  8. Liz,
    I agree completely that a husband who conceals misbehavior or fails to self report is setting his wife up to fail on consistency. But at the same time you are identifying perhaps the central paradox in adult discipline: in those areas of my life where I need her consistent discipline is exactly where I try to avoid it. And like Dan and many other men who have reported it, I cannot bring myself to self report behavior that is going to get me punished.One way we have handled this is to focus on one or two "big" problems and expect to have her interrogate me regularly about them with the very important provision that I will not lie or mislead her when asked a direct question . This worked with masturbation without permission, smoking, and drinking outside the home.The other thing we do is focus on correcting behavior that either harms our relationship or threatens the safety or health of either of us. In the natural course of things she is usually aware when I misbehave in these areas. But there are still a few areas where I do misbehave and she doesn't know about it and I don't self report. I am not proud of that but know its a very strong aversion to doing what feels like sentencing my self to punishment.The bottom line to me is that I need her discipline externally imposed on me because I lack self discipline to do it myself. To put all this a different way, if I could self report I probably would not need the discipline because I would be disciplining myself.
    Alan

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    1. " bottom line to me is that I need her discipline externally imposed on me because I lack self discipline to do it myself. To put all this a different way, if I could self report I probably would not need the discipline because I would be disciplining myself." Yep, I totally get this.

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    2. Hi Alan,
      I totally agree with what you are saying. For me it is not so much that I can't bring myself to self report and bring punishment on myself, but rather it is just that the very act of self-reporting makes the whole thing feel much less imposed. And for me, the "imposed" element is huge.

      Also I don't think she really wants me to self-report, since it is kind of like asking for a spanking. We too have used the system where she asks me regularly about something, and I always tell her the truth (in all cases, not only when she is interrogating me), but by her asking the question, it completely changes the dynamic and again feels much more imposed.

      And for those who do use self-reporting, I am in no way saying that self-reporting is not good, but rather that it just doesn't seem to be for my wife and I. If it works for you, then great!

      -ZM

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    3. For me, the resistance to regular self-reporting seems to have three aspects. First, it is true that there are times I just don't want to get spanked, so I'm reluctant to self-report. Second, I agree with you that ratting myself out sometimes does make punishment feel less imposed. Though, as I've talked about, reporting can sometimes be humbling in a way that creates its own dynamic that kind of offsets the diminished sense of it being imposed. Third, there are times when something I've done embarrasses me to the point I just don't want to admit it discuss it. Basically, I'm ashamed and don't want to own up to what I did. Frequently, work things are like that for me. I don't have the issue Liz describes about Arthur not being aware when he's being arrogant. I'm generally pretty aware that I drifted over the line into some kind of inappropriate communication at work, to the point that I'm very disappointed in myself for doing it. And, unlike Arthur I have some odd resistance to talking to my wife about work issues in general. It's kind of an ongoing issues that she asks me for details about work stuff and I tend to just give yes or no answers

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    4. I think the fact that our DD is a single issue (arrogance) arrangement combined with regularly scheduled punishment makes it much easier for me to self-report and easier for Liz to be consistent. I know I am going to be spanked to prevent arrogance twice a week, whether I have been arrogant in the last few days or not. I feel it is my duty to report incidents, even knowing that the punishment will be increased, which is her duty.

      I don't have the issue with desiring the reason to be imposed. After all, I asked for this. And she is imposing the punishment. Neither does she think I am asking to be spanked. She knows I don't like it.

      To me self-reporting is open and honest communication and enhances our marriage as well as our DD.
      Arthur

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    5. Self-reporting is imposed by my wife. If she finds out something I did that I obviously should have reported, I get 10 times the standard punishment. That very quickly taught me to self-report.
      Pete

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    6. Some of the discussion here may be comparing apples and oranges. For example admitting to a lapse during a scheduled maintenance spanking is not what I consider self-reporting. Nor is acknowledging guilt when asked a direct question. Both of those are exemplary acceptance of your wife's authority to uncover bad behavior but not self-reporting (again for me). Self-reporting is keeping track of all spankable behaviors (short or long list depending on how strict she is) and promptly notifying her of your transgression completely outside of scheduled maintenance or behavior review. If you do that and both want it, that’s great. My wife doesn’t and my guess is most wives don’t but my bigger point is: let’s be clear about what we mean by self-reporting
      Alan

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    7. Hi Alan. There are probably some blurry lines here. To me, the relevant distinction is around whether you are, on your own initiative, reporting something that you'd otherwise probably get away with and that may result in new or additional punishment. So, to me Arthur's example qualifies if he is reporting a specific incident that will result in additional or more severe punishment than if he had kept his mouth shut. To some extent that is because Arthur is one of the few here (maybe the only one ever?) whose spanking are almost all preventative or prophylactic, i.e. designed to remind him not to do the one big thing they have identified as a problem. I guess I can even sort of see admitting to bad behavior in response to a direct-question as a very reactive form of self-reporting, otherwise known as "not lying."

      For me, there are really two different levels of reporting -- three if you count mere telling the truth when confronted. The first is initiating some kind of report about some misbehavior that otherwise might have gone undetected. I don't do this one with as much regularity as I should, though I do do it. Those kind of reports usually happen in a journal entry or personal note of some sort, and I've experimented with all sorts of "report forms," though we've never managed to actually make them a part of our standard practice. Second, there is going above and beyond just reporting the offense and, instead, both reporting it and affirmatively asking her to punish it. Up to and including bringing her a paddle to take care of it then and there. I *really* struggle with that.

      The apples and oranges example that jumps out at me more from some of the above quotes involves whether DD is going on at all. When someone says they are getting spanked every single day regardless of transgressions, regardless of a specific habit they are trying to root out, regardless of any connection to trying to change behavior . . . I have a hard time seeing how that qualifies as DD at all. I'm not sure what it is, but it seems a stretch to call it disciplinary.

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    8. Hi Dan,
      There are a lot of gems to unwrap here and I do agree with you that the question of whether DD is really going on at all sometimes runs through much of the discussion. But I will remain focused on what is or is not self reporting. When my wife finds out I exceeded my alcohol limits when traveling by directly interrogating me about it -that IS not self reporting.Its me truthfully answering her question and acknowledging her authority to ask it and impose consequences for it. And if I admit to something during maintenance ( or any disciplinary encounter for that matter)( we don't do maintenance per se), you are not self reporting.You are reacting to her discipline which can bring on all kinds of confessions if she probes for them while punishing. Self reporting can only happen outside any disciplinary event and is initiated by the husband without being coerced or prompted by his wife I find it relatively easy to admit to her when she interrogates me. And lots of things have come up during punishment for one behavior that involved another behavior she didn't know about. But that is not self reporting.. Maybe most important: when she finds out or discovers behavior issues this way she has set out to do so and she wants to know. Otherwise she probably doesn't
      Alan

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    9. This is Arthur. Maybe we are in a unique situation regarding self-reporting. Our one DD issue is arrogance at home and work. I have mostly corrected the issue at home, so my main issue now is arrogance at work. If I don't self-report, my wife has no way to know if any incidents occurred. So in my mind I have to self-report.

      I guess I could wait until she interrogates me or asks while punishing me, and I agree those would not be self-reporting. I also think they would be ridiculous for us and my wife would never do them. If I am not willing to tell about my work arrogance, then I don't really want help with it. Our DD would then end.

      I also find it ridiculous (for us) that I would deliver the paddle to her for an extra session, in essence asking to be spanked. That is not my role. I do deliver the paddle for our regularly scheduled sessions - which she has scheduled with my input. But if she deems that an extra session is required, she needs to call it and either send me for the paddle or get it herself. That is her expressing her authority.
      Arthur

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    10. I like Dan's practice of keeping a journal. It could just be the facts: "I had three drinks at lunch," rather than "I went over my drink limit by one and should be punished for it." The first option would be much easier for the husband to write, even if he knows he is likely to be punished. Then the disciplinary wife can review the journal and impose the consequences.

      It is self-reporting, but not face to face and not asking for punishment. And if the wife is inconsistent and neglects to check the journal, that is on her. The husband did not withhold the truth.
      Liz

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    11. Three at lunch? Even I usually wait for happy hour!

      My journal entries tend to be very stream of consciousness, and are sometimes as long and detailed as my Saturday posts to the blog. As for a "just the facts" format, I think it does make sense, and you make a good point that if the wife doesn't check or act on it regularly, that should be on her.

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    12. You could even set time limits for the self-report and the review: Husband must report his misbehavior within 48 hours or an additional penalty is added. Wife must apply discipline within 5 days of the report or it is waived.
      Liz

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    13. I agree the journal might work if the rule ( against drinking for example) was unambiguous and recording it in a journal was made an obedience issue. It really does depend on how structured the disciplinary relationship is and how tight a wife wants to draw the reins.There is a great deal of discretion in ours ( hence the "anytime, any place for any reason rule") and context is important.But journal recording if treated as an obedience issue could work if a wife doesn't feel pressure to punish every time a rule is broken regardless of the context and a husband knows he is just providing her information and not necessarily going to be punished for it.
      Alan

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    14. It's interesting that a topic about consistency has become about self-reporting. Perhaps extend it into next week? FWIW, I agree with Liz's idea of an expiring right to punish. Alan, I agree, though I think people are confusing a "journal" with a "log." To me, those are two very different things.

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    15. Certainly the word "log" implies shorter entries, while a journal could be everything up to a "diary." But Miriam Webster says "journal" is a synonym for the 4th definition of "log": "a record of performance, events, or day to day activities."
      I would envision a simple log that lists the date of the entry followed by a few words about the misbehavior- what happened and when. Example: "Sarcastic to co-worker yesterday."
      It would be at the discretion of the disciplinary wife to punish for the entry, seek more information, do nothing, etc.
      Personally, Art and I do not need such a journal because he self-reports. But the idea obviously interests me. I like the concept of having all of the misbehavior listed in one place in clear black and white.
      Liz

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    16. It would certainly help when trying to remember repeat infractions, for which consequences are increased in many DD relationships, as I understand it.
      Liz

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    17. Dan, here's an idea for next week: Challenge your followers (and yourself) to keep a log for 3-4 weeks and then report back here how it worked as a DD tool. I asked Art and he is willing to do it rather than tell me about his work (mis)behavior each evening.
      Liz

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    18. Thanks, Liz. I'll come up with something along those lines.

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    19. Liz wrote "Husband must report his misbehavior within 48 hours or an additional penalty is added. Wife must apply discipline within 5 days of the report or it is waived". This actually can work maybe with some modification such as shortening both the reporting interval and the time a wife has to administer. however my experience is that it impacts the disciplinarian as much as the naughty boy. My former girlfriend used a version of it we called the "24 hour rule" (don’t remember which of us came up with the idea but remember she liked it). It didn't require any self-reporting from me but it did require she administered any punishment she ordered within 24 hours or it was waived. In practice it produced more spanking on the spot or as soon as we returned home. She did use a log but only to record formal punishments including the date, instruments used, offense punished and a 1-10 evaluation of how well I accepted it. I also had to sign it before I was allowed to pull my pants back up. Very humbling as I remember but also very effective
      Alan

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  9. Hi Dan,
    Excellent observations you made. I found myself agreeing, and at the same time wanting to clarify what I was trying to say, so I guess that somehow I didn’t say it very well, but still you seemed to get the gist of it!

    In particular, I was saying that one thing that might be difficult, especially for wives who are newer to this because they may feel like it is sometimes unfair. This was the statement: “So pretty much EVERY punishment is going to be relatively big, and this doesn't seem quite as fair for seemingly ‘small’ things.” The keep word in this is “seem,” so on the surface a hard and long punishment doesn’t SEEM to “fit the crime” for something petty and minor. 

    But when you realize that that most small behaviors and even some larger behaviors go unpunished, and that the bigger problems in life are often just the result of a bunch of smaller behaviors, habits, oversights, etc., then it becomes clear that in trying to build discipline, there is no such thing as something “small!” Put in this context, then there is nothing unfair about her punishing me however hard for even the smallest thing, because it might be helping me to make huge changes.

    I like the way that you put it “My wife is pretty binary in her approach to spanking. Each one is hard an long. Every time.” That ties in very well. In order to be a real punishment, a spanking must be quite an ordeal, so the question at any time is not if a spanking will be hard or not, but rather if you are getting one. If you are due for a spanking, then by default it will be harrowing.

    I also liked what you said about maybe consistency is undermined by needing spankings to be long, since who really has the time? I too have thought about the short but intense paddling idea, much like being sent to the principal’s office. I can’t imagine that those punishment took more than a minute or two, yet I know they resulted in bruised bottoms and wet eyes. As I told you, we have been using (off and on) the idea of one or two hard cane strokes, whenever she thinks it is necessary. It takes care of noise, because it really isn’t that loud, and nobody notices because it isn’t repetitive enough. She has found it hard because it is hard to “calibrate” with only 1 or 2 strokes, and it is hard to be very hard and very accurate without having a few leading up to the really hard ones.

    Another statement of yours really resonated for us: “Rather, she just doesn’t think about going right to spanking for ‘small’ things.” Interestingly enough, considering that we talk about DD very often and she brings it up as much as I do, she still sometimes comments that she simply forgets that it is an option when she is irritated, and only later realizes that a spanking might have been in order.

    I’ll address all your consistency questions for this week in a separate message, since this has already gotten long.

    -ZM

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    1. "But when you realize that that most small behaviors and even some larger behaviors go unpunished, and that the bigger problems in life are often just the result of a bunch of smaller behaviors, habits, oversights, etc., then it becomes clear that in trying to build discipline, there is no such thing as something “small!"" That's definitely a good point, and it's kind of the essence of the "broken glass" theory of policing or military commanders's emphasis on starting the day by making one's bed.

      The can does seem like an obvious solution to some concerns about keeping things private while maintaining consistency. I've just never succeeded in getting my wife to have a sustained interest in that tool. She just doesn't like it, and I'm not sure she ever will.

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  10. I'm a lurker not in a current FLR relationship but I enjoy and appreciate the comments and insights of the participants. Particularly the perspective of the ladies. Liz, among others, mentioned the challenges but importance of self reporting.

    I would think an approach that might help this is regular & consistent chat time. Maybe daily but certainly at least weekly. Sometimes, perhaps even often, it could be done by phone. Even in committed relationships, phone chat can be even more honest & revealing than in-person discussion. In person or otherwise, I would think regularity would be a cornerstone. In some ways not unlike the Catholic confessional but much less formal and intimidating.

    It might even be best that the wife not even announce or administer punishment at that moment. Instead having time to consider the information and determine the type & severity of punishment. That interval could wind up being part of the punishment, in that the man would have some time to consider the possibilities and even twist a bit in the wind.

    My experience is that most men don't need much encouragement to spill their guts to their girlfriend/wife. If the woman needed anything to get past any hesitation the man might have (knowing loose lips could be his doom), maybe she could offer a reward of stars stuck to the fridge that, in sufficient numbers could get the guys certain loving treats from his special lady.

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    1. "In some ways not unlike the Catholic confessional but much less formal and intimidating." I like that, though I wonder about the "less intimidating" part.

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  11. For me real change comes much more from consistency and promptness then from harshness. A small punishment given every time immediately after an offense effects me much more than a harsh punishment given inconsistently.

    A small punishment is also much easier to give consistently. It takes less time, maybe only a minute or two. If you choose a silent implement like a cane, it can be given in the middle of regular activities without causing a noticeable interruption, even with children or vanilla friends in the house.

    My wife can just ask me to help her with something in the bedroom for a minute. Two or three cane strokes is a real punishment. Just look at the picture above and imagine living with three strips like that for the rest of the day.

    So I say consistency and promptness are a vital key to getting results. Have your wife use them with one behavior she don't like. When she see how well they work and how little work they take, she will be encouraged to use them more often

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    1. I agree for the most part with your first two paragraphs, though I do think severity is a part of the equation.

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  12. Yes indeed. This Anonymous contribution resonates well with me and my experience

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  13. Both N and J were/are "consistent" and "prompt" when it comes to "delivering" punishment (as fitting the occasion) - and no discussion or pleading is allowed...
    L

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    1. It's true that I ignore any discussion or "pleading" when I have decided you need a "session" across my lap (or in any other appropriate position!), but that doesn't always prevent you from begging for mercy- which, as you know only too well, only serves to aggravate me... and for you to be spanked or whipped harder than I had originally meant to. In fact, as I am sure you know, your occasional "begging" only urges me to deal more severely with your (already bared) derrière!
      J

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    2. I know! - and I just got a "reminder" with the strap... and the rattan cane!
      My derrière was still sore from the whippings I got over the weekend, but who knows what may await me later this week!
      L

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    3. You will find out soon enough - and I promise you will remember it!
      J

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  14. When a husband chooses not to self-report consistently (or at all), I can see a very frustrating situation for a prospective disciplinary wife. This is what I imagine she "hears":

    "I want you to start spanking me when I misbehave, and I want you to be strict and consistent about it. But I am not going to confess when I misbehave. You have to catch me, and you have to do it consistently or I will feel you are not trying hard enough."

    Which may be why many wives just say, "Uh, no. Forget it."

    It's like wanting help with weight loss but refusing to step on the scale!

    Ok, that was a bit exaggerated. But can you see why a refusal to self-report would confuse a wife and maybe make her not want to participate?
    Pete

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  15. Absolutely correct, Pete. Honest self reporting is, in my view, an important part of the DD relationship. I recall the words my Dominant Mistress said "If we are doing this, we are doing it right" That statement preceded my very first spanking at the beginning of our DD relationship.

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  16. I admit that I am too cowardly to confess my wrongdoing to my wife my, although the punishment will be much harsher if she catches me. Only if I am afraid that she will find out anyway will I confess my crime. Since I have to do all the housework, hardly a week passes in which my wife will not beats me at least two or three times because I often work sloppy or forget part of my duties. Maybe I'm more immature than most of the others here. strictpunishedhubby

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  17. I think self-reporting can be very helpful, as one certainly cannot expect one's wife to be aware of everything that goes on in his life. It seems like this is an important topic that a couple should open discuss and reach an agreement. For some, keeping a written log may work, and the wife can simply access that at her will. Others may find that setting aside a specific time each week for "confessions" is easier.

    As for long, hard spankings taking up too much time, there are cures for that. Unless some of you have unbelievably tough butts, I find that 12 of the best with a senior can on an unwarmed, bare bottom will get most folks attention. Alternatively, if one is really serious, a short hard spanking after orgasm is never an enjoyable experience.

    Graham

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  18. I sometimes "self-report" (especially if I know that my wife is bound to find out sooner or later about my "misdemeanor"), and may even do so with my pants at half-mast and/or bringing the paddle or the martinet - but (if I ever did) not in the hope that this would earn me some clemency... There have, in fact, been times when this sort of "volunteering" irritated her as an encroachment on her authority - and earned me a harsher
    treatment than what I had expected... I still "self-report" occasionally - but no longer expect that my derrière may be spared from what she thinks I "need"...
    L

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  19. My wife is very consistent with punishment, which I truly appreciate (though I don't appreciate the pain). She wants things done her way on her schedule, period. Punishment follows if it's not.

    For instance, she wants the garbage out to the street the night before, not the morning of pickup. I always get it out there before the truck comes, but that is not good enough. Scolding, pants yanked down, over her lap I go. She outweighs me and spanks very hard, usually with a thick round paddle with holes (a cross between a bath brush and a Spencer paddle).

    If I have done a chore incompletely, she will scold, spank, send me to finish the chore, inspect, and then scold and spank again (even if it is done right) as a reminder to do it right the first time in the future.

    Her strictness and consistency has really brought order to our lives. Her expectations are very clear, and woe to me when I don't meet them.
    Pete

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  20. Hi Dan,
    The week has come and gone, and just now I am getting to answering your questions, though I don’t feel bad since it appears that almost nobody else has either!

    Q: What level of consistency have you achieved in your DD relationship?
    A: Almost none. I think consistency MAY happen when we are truly empty-nesters, but even then I am not so sure about it. As I said before, quite often, even though she is the one who brings up spanking and things more than me (since she is much less shy about such talk), she has told me that on those infrequent occasions that I irritate her, for some reason it simply doesn’t occur to her at the time to go to discipline. And also, quite often even when she says a punishment is coming, it simply never arrives because life gets in the way. We live in a small, un-insulated apartment in eastern Europe, so almost any noise, even that from repeated cane strokes, is out of the question unless we are home alone, which has hardly happened for the past year or so.

    Q: Is consistency even a goal, or are you content with an on-again-off-again approach?
    A: I think consistency is a goal, but not a huge priority for us. We would like MORE consistency, but nothing rigid.

    Q: For those for whom consistency is a desired state but remains challenging, what are the big impediments to getting there?
    A: Kids… And also general lack of time alone.

    Q: What are you and your spouse willing to do, if anything, to overcome those impediments?
    A: Wait, since there seem to be no alternatives right now.

    I didn’t ask her, since we were interrupted while talking about the forum this week, but I will wing it based on previous conversations we have had.

    Q: For the wives for whom consistency is a problem, what are the challenges? Is it practical things like lack of available time, or is it more an an attitude issue?
    A: Both. It is mostly lack of opportunity, but when we are alone (seldom as that is), she would prefer to be romantic rather than stern.

    Q: Is it concerns about “fairness” or whether he really wants it, or does training a husband like you would a child or a puppy just seem like too much of an investment of energy sometimes?
    A: Fairness is not a huge issue, since she knows she is fair. Plus, she pointed out that the whole thing is by its very nature somewhat unfair, but she knows it is what I want. I think that it is not so much that “training me” seems like too much of an investment of energy, but rather that she is just often tired from life, and likes to chill when we can.

    Q: Does that kind of diligence and "always on" responsibility have a maternal vibe, and is that good or bad?
    A: She has said before that it does, but she kind of gets into that. Not so much the mommy thing, but rather the fact that moms have pretty much unlimited power when it comes to smaller children.

    Q: For the men, do you want your wives to be more consistent in setting boundaries and imposing consequences?
    A: As I said above, yes, we both would like more consistency, though not too much.

    Q: What do you do that makes it more difficult, like not reporting when you’ve been bad, trying to avoid a spanking or punishment, etc.?

    A: She doesn’t want self-reporting, except on the few things she has chosen to monitor. Even then she prefers asking me at the end of the day (like for work things) or maybe every week or so (like for online habits). Also I prefer it that way since it seems much more imposed.
    Q: Have you talked to her frankly about any desire you have for her to keep you on a tighter, more consistent leash?
    A: Not really. We talk about it generally, but I think we both realize the current reality is the way it will be (and probably should be) for now.

    -ZM

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  21. Hi Dan,
    Sorry I also posted my comment on another old, old blog posting (I often write my comments in Word and then paste them here, since it is much easier writing much in the little window given here). I was looking through old blog posts to find a quote I remembered.

    I was reminded this week that self-reporting and journaling are real hot button issues which quite frankly is quite surprising to me. As I said earlier this week, I am happy that it works for others, but I don't see why proponents of it are SO adamant that it needs to be be part of DD. I was looking back to find one of the strongest statements about it, made by one of our long-lost-but-not-really-missed "flouncers," Elizabeth about a year ago:
    “He has to confess, and he does that by keeping an honest and complete journal. Those of you who are unwilling to come clean and instead are expecting your wife to find out about all your misbehavior are living in a dream world. It's dishonest and disrespectful.”

    I am fine with the suggestion that maybe keeping a journal might help with consistency, as well as provide opportunity for self-reflection. Also, if you wife is in charge and she wants self-reporting, then by all means report! But I bristle at any suggestion that those who don't keep a journal and self report are not serious about DD, or even worse dishonest and disrespectful. My wife doesn't want self-reporting. If I did so, then THAT would be disrespectful.

    As for being honest, I am honest with my wife about everything, but she very much has the opinion that if she didn't see it, then I dodged the bullet. But that is balanced out by the fact that when she does punish for something, it is usually quite severe, so maybe most of the time I get by with things, but when I do get caught, the punishment is more than fits the crime.

    I think this kind of what I was trying to say about consistency. I would in general like for her to be much more strict, but at the same time, I still want there to be a lot of give and take, of me pushing boundaries and she, whenever she feels it is needed, strongly pushing me back from the boundary.

    -ZM

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    1. Do you mean if she didn't see it or hear about it? What if a friend or relative tells you about something they saw or heard? This has happened to me on several occasions and the punishment has been more severe than if my wife saw it. I can't imagine her saying that I dodged the bullet because she personally didn't see it.
      Pete

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    2. I just want to enthusiastically second ZM’s sentiments. If there is any one thing I have learned from this blog it is that each couple finds its own idiosyncratic way and there is no one way to do DD. Specific to consistency I don’t think my wife is ducking her responsibly or failing to be the disciplinarian if she does not warm my bum every time I misbehave. Much better for us is the wide latitude she has to punish or not depending on the context. It is her decision and with the exception of the first couple of years when I did rebel sometimes, I accept her decision whatever it is and try to grow with it. It’s much more important to me that she is COMMITTED to discipline as a life style and determined to keep me from going too far off the rails. The rest of it is detail
      Alan

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    3. Hi Pete, I was saying that the times that she never finds out about something, she figures that those times I just get lucky. But that is also recognizing that she punishes me much less frequently than I deserve it, but those punishments are always much more severe than an individual infraction might merit on its own. So in the end, it sort of works itself out.

      Alan, Exactly! If we are committed to discipline as a lifestyle, and she keeps me from going too far off the rails, then that is mission accomplished for us! And the very wide amount of latitude that she has to punish or not punish for any given thing only heightens the sense of her being in control that she gets off on and I so need.

      -ZM

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    4. Alan and ZM, the post I just put up may seem to contradict your points here, since it emphasizes that even if self-reporting happens, the DD still "fails" if the wife doesn't do something about it. But, I hope it was clear I meant that whatever the husband reports needs to be "addressed" and that might or might not mean punishment. She can always decide that something doesn't merit punishment. But, there is a big difference between that and just being generally lax or inconsistent. It's that distinction that Alan gets at above with the emphasis on "commitment"

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