Saturday, June 29, 2019

The Club - Meeting 302 - Tears

“People can cry much easier than they can change.”  ― James Baldwin

Hello all.  I hope you had a great week.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships. I hope you all had a good week.

My week involved a very, very sore bottom.  As I related over the last two or three weeks, we hit a rough patch where FLR and obedience were concerned.  We had a talk about it on Saturday after I thought we had reached an understanding on things and, wow, was I ever wrong. When we went to bed that night, I was really in a funk, thinking that after more than a decade of DD, we really might have hit an impasse.  But, the next day I sent a long journal entry trying to work through where my feelings were, what I thought to be her thoughts and feelings, etc.  Without going into details, we seem to have gotten things back on track.  The clearest indication of that was that around 8:00 pm that night she sent me a text saying that I was going to get a spanking as soon as we had the house to ourselves, and she definitely delivered.  It was one of the hardest she has ever given me, and for the first time in a long time, I came very close to begging her to stop.  So, she definitely got her point across.

Thanks for all your participation last week.  We’ve had some really great conversations lately.  When I posted last week’s topic, I thought it was so narrow that it wouldn’t generate much discussion, yet we were once again well over 100 comments, and what a range they covered: marking, caning techniques, cuckolding, spanking in anger, communications between DWC couples, severity, surrender and tears.  Lots and lots to explore in future topics! On the idea of communicating more openly and directly with DWC couples, I do want to be part of a solution for that, though so far I haven’t been able to come up with a good alternative that fosters such exchanges yet preserves confidentiality.  But, maybe I need to stop worrying about the confidentiality issue as much, as there seems to be a broad spectrum of how much people care, and those who do care a lot don't need to participate on any alternative platform.  As for getting together in an actual meeting, I’m not sure my wife is there yet, and some days I'm not either.  But, I have dipped my toes into that pool with one or two people who know about our lifestyle and who I am. So, who knows what the future might hold.

But, for this week, let’s talk about two of those things that came up last week – surrender and tears. Now, K.D. will chastise me for taking on the subject of tears yet again, though looking at the topics over the life of the blog, I really have not had that many devoted to to the topic of crying.  Yet, he's right that it is a subject that is near and dear to my DD heart, and its a subject that has played a major role in my DD motivation and aspirations.  Yet, more than a decade into this, I’ve never once cried from a spanking.  I’ve gotten close a time or two, but it’s still never happened but is still often on my mind.  So, while we have talked about this topic before, it's been over a year and we have a bunch of new contributors.  So, let's talk about it again. As with last week, I’m feeling a little lazy and time pressured, so I will crib liberally from last year’s topic and a couple that we did in previous years.

Back in 2018, when Blogger still had a polling gadget, I ran a poll that encompassed both experience with, and interest in, crying real tears from a real adult spanking.  The results for the disciplined husbands regarding whether they had cried and, if not, whether they wanted to, were as follows:

I have not but want to:                                            46%
I have not and do not want to:                                12%
I have but only a few tears:                                    17%
I have, including crying hard or sobbing:               22%

So, about 40% of those who took the poll claimed to have cried at least a few tears.  Among those who had not done so, 46% wanted to.   So, this seems to be an experience that many men sort of want, maybe even enough to ask for it.

The prospect of crying was probably the most significant driver of the emotional reaction I had when I first discovered domestic discipline by stumbling across the DWC website.  Stories of men being brought to tears over their wives knees transfixed me.  It left me with butterflies in my stomach, though that really understates the reaction.  I couldn't sleep.  I couldn't think of much of anything else for the couple of days between when I first stumbled on the concept and when I brought it to my wife's attention. I found the whole prospect both utterly compelling and utterly repulsive.  It both fascinated and scared the living hell out of me.  The thought of letting go of control so thoroughly that I would sob in front of my wife as a result of a paddling or strapping really shook me to my core in a fundamental way.  It scared me like nothing else really every had or has since, yet I found myself compulsively drawn to it.  And, I truly do think that the prospect of being reduced to tears was probably the #1 thing that made DD such an obsession after I found the DWC site.  It didn't feel like a want, so much as a deep-seated need.

While the prospect of sobbing from a spanking now has haunted my DD fantasies for years, I still have not experienced it, even as a result of spankings that plainly fall into the "severe" range. While it's impossible for me to pinpoint exactly why, I've come to believe there are certain factors that play into why some men get there and some don't:

Severity:  This one is a little counter-intuitive.  A spanking must be severe enough to "get the job done."  But, at least in my case, if it starts out very severe from the start using a really painful instrument like a skinny wooden paddle or a rubber strap, I absolutely will not be brought to tears because, paradoxically, it is just too hard and I can't stop myself from resisting it.  I cannot stop myself from trying to "man up" and just get through each swat.  No matter how much I go into the spanking with the intent of "taking my medicine" and leaving myself open to it in a way that might let me release into tears, I just cannot do it if the pain level is too much at the beginning. When my wife was spanking me earlier this week, her first instrument was a leather paddle with holes that has a way of finding my most sensitive areas.  Had she continued with it for a long time, I think she really might have gotten me to the point of real tears.

Duration: My wife tends to spank very hard, but sometimes so much so that my bottom gets in bad shape quickly and then she decides to terminate the spanking.  I suspect that duration plays at least as big a role as severity in bringing about real tears and that sobbing is more likely to happen when it starts really occurring to him that this spanking is going to go on way past his ability to "take it like a man."
 
Immediacy and remorse:  Oftentimes, I'm being spanked for something that we both agree is something I should be spanked for but, (a) it's something that didn't have any real impact on her or anyone else and, hence, I don't really feel all that guilty about it; or (b) so much time has passed between the offense and the consequences that whatever guilt I once felt has dissipated.

Lecturing/Displayed Anger: Related to the presence or absence of remorse, I suspect that a very strong lecture before the spanking would help soften me up emotionally and leave me more vulnerable and, hence, more likely to cry.  Last week, we talked a little about spanking in anger, and I believe that if my wife would really cut loose with the verbal scolding when she is, in fact, very angry at me it would help break down the “take it like a man” resistance.



Embarrassment/"Toxic" Masculinity: Some men's identities are more bound up with the concept of being "manly" with all that it entails.  Unfortunately, one thing it may entail is a very deep-seated resistance to showing vulnerability and an inability to easily display that vulnerability or weakness.  Those identity traits are actually strengths that can help us get through a lot, accomplish a lot and succeed in out-sized ways. But, like all such traits, they can come at a price when they become excessive or one-dimensional. That price may be a very strong resistance to embarrassment and emotional vulnerability, both of which crying from a spanking would likely entail.


Pain tolerance:  The plain fact is, I have a lead bottom and a weirdly high pain threshold.  I've suffered some fairly significant injuries in the past, but they just didn't hurt me as much as they seem to hurt other people.  So, getting me to a point at which the pain becomes truly unbearable is a daunting prospect. 

Encouragement:  Those of us who have a strong emotional resistance to crying may also fear embarrassment more than others.  In those cases, I think the disciplinary wife probably has a role in facilitating tears not just by lecturing sternly then spanking severely, but also by letting her husband know before and during the spanking that not only is she comfortable with him crying, but she wants him to do so.

ZM weighed in on this several months ago, after he had his first crying experience.  His comments [slightly edited] touch on a lot of these points:

Yesterday, I got to experience a first, in that I was spanked to tears for the first time ever, at least as an adult. This has been a topic of endless (and perhaps morbid?) fascination for me, to say the least, and I really couldn't believe that it happened. The punishment was for several prolonged bouts of bad attitude. My wife has been under huge amounts of stress in recent months due to parental health issues, and as she was administering the punishment, I just felt so incredibly bad when I thought of how unhelpful my attitude has been, and how rather than supporting her I was making things more difficult. This guilt, combined with a delrin cane (which is basically just horrible), and in the diaper position (which makes everything so much worse), finally broke down that barrier that I have never really been able to cross before. [She] had pretty much decided beforehand that tears were going to happen, and she continued until they did. Afterwards she said she would have liked to go a bit longer, but it was hard to see me crying. She decided that next time, she will go until she decides it has been enough and then will add a certain number of additional strokes, probably by rolling two dice (resulting in 2-12 additional) just to make sure she didn't under-punish and to give fate a bit of say in the matter.  I agree that it was mostly driven by guilt, combined with a non-relenting spanking. I don't think she punished harder than usual, but certainly longer, and plus she had said before that the next punishment would certainly result in tears, so I think she set the stage for it and that helped me to get into the proper state of mind. Anyway, the tears took it to a whole new level of "real" feeling for us.”

So, tears are once again this week’s topic.  For the men, have you cried from an adult spanking? If so, was it only a few tears, or did you get to the real sobbing we’ve probably all read about in the spanking stories?  If you haven’t cried yet, do you want to? If so, what do you think holds you back?  For the Wives, have you brought your husband (or other significant other) to tears with a disciplinary spanking?  If so, tell us about it. How did you react it?  If you have not brought him to that point, do you want to? Or, does the idea of that leave you squeamish? 

I hope you all have a great week.

78 comments:

  1. Hi , I am Julie when I am giving my Husband William a punishment spanking I have him stand nude in front of me as I am scolding him and telling him why he is receiving a spanking he usually has tears right away when I put him over my knee and adjust his bottom he start to cry right away .

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    1. Hi Julie. Do you think William cries right away because he fears the harshness of your spankings, or does he cry because you make him feel guilty and ashamed?
      Danielle

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    2. Hi Danielle , I think a mixture of both, William starts to cry when I send him to the nightstand drawer to get the hairbrush or paddle , he no's what is coming and ashamed he is getting a punishment spanking .

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  2. I to am one who cries but not so much from the spanking. I start to tear up and sob from my wife scolding me while I am standing nude in front of her. Then when she puts me over her knee and continues scolding while administering a few swats during the scolding I will cry and tell her how sorry I am. When the scolding is done the real spanking begins and it is non stop until I am really balling and she is satisfied she got the point across.

    On the rare occasions when I get disciplined bent over a spanking bench I don't cry from the whipping. I will take the spanking and only make noises. She may bring me to tears from the scolding but the whipping over the bench makes me defiant and take it. I think the fact that when she has me over her knee I seem to bond with her and feel more remorse and it just breaks me down to tears. I think I would rather cry and show my emotions and I think my wife prefers it to.

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    1. Hi Dan,
      Interesting point. I can see how this could easily happen. While I am sure that the spanking bench punishments are unbearable, they might well be TOO unbearable, plus they lack real intimacy. Probably the combination of too much immediate pain (causing you to try to fight it) and the lack of intimacy make it less likely that you would reach that point of emotional vulnerability required to bring about tears.

      -ZM

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    2. I can see this, too. And, while I've never achieved tears, I could envision her getting me there during the initial lecturing.

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    3. I have noticed when I'm getting spanked over a spanking bench I am more defiant than when I am over my wife's nee. When she has me over her knee I am totally submissive and stay in place and tears will flow.

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  3. Hi. I cry every time my beloved spanks me. It might be that I trust her completely and am not afraid to show emotions in front of her. Actually I can't remember a single time over her knee that I was not crying from the spanking. She does spank very hard, but I'm sure it's the emotional connection between us that make my tears flow like water.

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  4. Like you, I expected that crying would be the ultimate expression of my surrender. We've been in a DD relationship for more than four years. I've never cried. Spankings have become more and more severe. They frequently reach the point I want to run away. It takes everything I have two remain in place. Yet, I never feel myself moving close to tears.

    For the longest time I thought it was because my wife wasn't severe enough. I know that's not true. She frequently draws a little blood during a spanking. It's true that the effects of a spanking never last more than an hour or two no matter how strongly I'm beaten. That's just the way I'm built. I think some of us are wired differently and we just don't cry.

    The spankings are effective, however. We have some behavioral rules like not spilling food on my shirt. I've always been a bit of a messy eater. When my wife made it a punishable offense to get food on my shirt, I was being spanked three or four times a week for this. I should point out that we wanted this to happen. We were new to DD and both of us agreed that we needed many opportunities to discipline me in order to build the right habits.

    To both of our surprise, within a month or two I almost never got a drop of anything on my shirt. I can honestly say that I wasn't trying to eat more neatly. Spankings effectively conditioned me and changed my behavior. The same is true of other rules that have been enforced.

    While I would like to believe that tears demonstrate true remorse, improved behavior does it even better. Is anyone else had the same experience?

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    1. Hi Cagedlion,
      I like your shirt example, and how you changed without consciously trying to. I think that speaks highly of the power of corporal punishment, since so much of what goes on with us happens at the subconscious level.

      And I certainly agree that improved behavior might well indicate true remorse. However, I am not sure about the validity of comparing improved behavior with tears as measures of remorse.

      To me, tears are a pretty clear indicator that an emotional barrier was broken though. While pain, especially over a sustained period of time, can help facilitate breaking down that barrier, pain alone is likely not enough for many adults. Rather I think pain (and continued scolding) keeps the spankee focused on the behavior that resulted in the punishment and how their actions affected the other person, who they presumably love. This can result in genuine remorse, and remorse combined with pain combined with who knows what all else can add up to breaking through the tear barrier. However the person being spanked can experience true remorse without ever shedding a tear.

      At the same time, someone can be genuinely remorseful yet still may not be able to effect change at any meaningful rate, depending on what lies beneath their behavior. Is it a deeply ingrained habit? Is it an addiction? Do they even recognize when they are doing it? Do they really want to change. Human behaviors are very complex, so I don't know that changed behavior is all that good of an indicator of remorse either.

      What I can pretty comfortably say is that tears are a pretty sure sign that emotional barriers have been stripped away and that a message is being delivered. But this is only a positive indicator, because the lack of tears doesn't mean that the message is not being delivered and heard.

      -ZM

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    2. My history is a lot like yours, CagedLion. I too assumed at first that lack of tears was simply a matter of severity and/or duration. Now, I realize that the first is not sufficient, and the second probably is not either though I think it probably is more important than severity.

      ZM, I totally agree with you that "tears are a pretty clear indicator that an emotional barrier was broken through." I think for me that "emotional barrier" is mainly around male pride and a very deeply conditioned attitude that when faced with adversity or pain you are supposed to "take it like a man." At bottom, even though we've been married for over two decades and practicing DD for more than half our marriage, I still am not quite surrendering to her by dropping my emotional guard around spanking.

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    3. You bring up a very interesting point. Like you, I've wondered if my inability to cry is because I am failing to surrender. I'm not sure what surrender even looks like. Our marriage is largely a partnership. That hasn't changed during the years we have been practicing DD. By the way, I usually refer to this as FLRD (Female Led Relationship with Discipline) to Differentiate from the religious folks who practice DD, generally with the wives being disciplined.

      Anyway, I don't feel particularly aggressive or assertive around my wife. I rarely argue with her. If I do, I get "that look" and I shut up quickly.

      Like you, I wondered about whether tears represent something very significant or not. The folklore is that once tears are shed, submission goes up exponentially and the punished male becomes abjectly obedient. I have no idea if that's true or not. I'm pretty sure that's not what my wife is looking for from me.

      Meanwhile, I keep encouraging her to be more severe. I think it's because I feel that in some unknown way I'm failing her by not crying. I wonder if I'm responding to the widespread fantasies in the FLRD community. Maybe I'm not really supposed to cry. Maybe it's just a reaction that some men have when punished, and others don't.

      I'm really glad you brought this topic up. It's something that keeps bothering me since I've never even felt close to tears. I don't think it's because I'm too macho. I've almost willed myself to cry during a spanking, but I just can't quite get there.

      Is crying something I should aspire to do?

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    4. Like you, I have tried and failed. So, I think it is something that aspiring may not have much influence on

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  5. My wife and I are novices to the Disciplinary Wives scene. I’ve had only a handful of spanking, none of which made me cry. I would love to cry during a spanking, although I’m afraid my beautiful wife would stop spanking me at that point. I’ve alwayw fantasized about her taking me over her knee, scolding me as she paddled me harder and faster. Then stopping to make me answer her questions about what a bad boy I’ve been, then going on to longer and harder strokes on my already-crimson bottom until I finally break down and sob. Then she would continue spanking me for another few minutes as a I let go, bawling like a baby as she made sure I learned a good lesson.

    I have realistic hopes this will eventually happen. She spanks very hard but not a long time. Today I hit my weight-loss goals so I won’t be spanked for that. I asked her for a moderate weekly maintenance spankings and she laughed and said sure. But then this afternoon I expressed pessimism about something minor. My pessimism has always irritated her and she told me so again today. She seems genuinely upset. Although she has gotten over it now.

    I am going to ask that this weekend’s maintenance session be turned into a long, hard, attitude adjustment session to beat the pessimism out of me and make me more sensitive to how my attitude affects her. I will ask her to spank not necessarily super hard, but much longer. I will ask that her usual 5-minute spanking be extended to at least 15 minutes, if not 20, and don’t stop if I cry. I still sort of doubt that I will cry, but I hope so!!

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    1. Thanks, David. I hope you'll keep us posted.

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    2. Dan:

      I actually have been very good and pleased her today by doing lots of additional housework. When I asked her to spank me for being negative she thought that was good l, but she wouldn’t do a long, extended spanking. When I asked for bruising she said no and seemed irritated and told me to stop asking for that. Of course I said ok. Then she spanked me with the hairbrush for a while and then sent me to get the kitchen whip and the paddle. As usual, she really spanked hard with both implements and it really hurt. And of course, I was glad when she said it’s over! My butt is bright red��. But I doubt there will be serious bruising and I definitely didn’t cry. It’s ok. I’m totally thankful for her to spanking me as she did, and of course I told her so


      Afterwards, she told me to lick her pussy. I was so pleased that she was turned on by spanking me! I licked her pussy for a while and then she asked me to fuck her. Unfortunately, I wasn’t hard (I don’t know why but it’s happened before after a spanking). So I fingered her and licked her and she climaxed in a wonderful way. It turned me on so much.

      Here’s the great FLR part about of this. Afterward I asked her if I could lick her anus or feet. She told me no. She told me to get ready to go to dinner.

      Then I got hard and asked her if she wanted me to fuck her. She said no — we need to get ready to go to dinner

      I love how she is into FLR enough to spank me, be satisfied sexually by me licking her, and denying me because it doesn’t fit her schedule! I love her so much. As I told her, I love how she takes authority over men

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    3. Takes authority over me, not men lol

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    4. A great after dinner FLR post-script!

      We were celebrating our 31st wedding anniversary at dinner. I had a beer and she asked how many drinks was that today? I said I don’t know — 5 or 6 or so. She was defintely unhappy and immediately said she will give me a spanking when we get home tonight. So I’m sitting on an already sore butt on my anniversary knowing I’m getting another paddling when we get home!

      It was late — after 9 pm when we got home and I was tired and hoping maybe she would forget about it. I told her I was going upstairs to bed because I have to get up early — I have a very busy stressful day at work today. She said: bring the paddle.

      When I got upstairs there was no doubt what would happen. I stripped naked and got on my hands and knees on the bed, pushing my already red bottom out for more punishment. She grabbed that paddle and really tore into my butt! She swung hard. For the first time I watched her from the vantage point of my head down and looking between my legs. She really put t everything into those swats! Maybe 15 or 20 of them. I said: “Thank you, ma’am” after each one.

      When it was over, I knelt and kissed her feet and thanked her again. I asked if she wanted me to lick her pussy and she said no. No sex of any type for me, even though I was highly aroused. She even twice told me to stop touching my penis, even though it was very hard. Just go to sleep.

      I love that she feels confident enough to send me to bed on our anniversary with a sore, red bottom from two spankings this evening, and no sexual outlet.

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    5. This was also the first time that she ever spanked me on her own volition, without me suggesting it��. I think that when I come home tonight I will suggest that certain offenses like drinking 6 drinks in a day can merit 3 spankings on successive days, each one worse than the previous, just so it really drives home the point and my butt will be red and sore all week so I won’t forget.

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  6. While my eyes will often "tear up" during a spanking, I very rarely actually cry. When I do cry, it is more from the emotional release the spanking brings (something I have been holding onto in another part of our life comes out), rather than the pain.

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    1. If "tearing up" counts as crying, I sometimes make my husband cry from a spanking. When I say I don't spank until he cries, I mean I don't break him down until he's sobbing.
      Danielle

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    2. Hi Danielle. It's a legitimate distinction, though in my case still leave me tearless.

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    3. Anthony said "When I do cry, it is more from the emotional response the spanking brings....rather than the pain." I expect this is true for just about everyone in just about every case. Crying is an emotional response/release. Pain alone is unlikely to trigger it in an adult (or anyone for that matter). I think crying is almost always, almost entirely emotional!

      Now interestingly, you can get a bit misty eyed purely as a pain response, and I don't think there is much of any emotional response involved in that. Rather it is just a reaction to the pain stimulus.

      Anyway, not only is there a distinction between crying/sobbing and having slightly wet eyes, I think they are almost opposite. One is caused by emotional release, the other is caused by pain.

      BTW, in case you haven't figured it out by now, I don't really KNOW anything about any of this. It is all just what I think...

      -ZM

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  7. Man….I missed a lot of the action towards the end of last week!!!! Dan, you mentioned 1 thing again this week from the conversation last week so I hope you don’t mind a quick digression on that and 2 other things from last week’s conversation.

    I was really glad to see that there was some conversation about the ability of those who wanted, to potentially be able to connect. I know there have been times over the years that certain things have come up and I really wanted to be able to ask a more personal question or continue discussing a point/comment with someone but out of respect for Dan and the group I didn’t want to start having a “conversation” w/ someone on here. Also for a long time I had wondered that there HAD to be others involved in DD near me (I live in the mid-atlantic) …so when I saw Anthony Payne’s comment about the DWC group my ears perked up. Thank you Anthony Payne and somethingrandom for putting your emails out there. So in the spirit of “you showed me yours”…lol….darrenreddened@gmail.com. Anthony…is it OK if I reach out to you as well about the DWC group??? Dan- what do you think about this… is there an easy way to add a tab here that people can simply post their emails and by doing so they’re indicating it’s OK for others to reach out directly? Just a thought.

    #2 is a silly thing but the more we’ve all been opening up lately I’m seeing that w/ certain things I’m not alone. Like a few here I travel extensively for work and when dealing with the emotional frustration of the up and down my wife’s ebbs and flows of interest/willingness to spank, be it right or wrong there have been times I had contemplated getting a spanking when on the road. Miss Cecilia….you said you work in a hotel. I was always too scared/nervous about the noise it would make. My concern is someone hears it, they’d have no way of knowing it’s a guy getting a consensual spanking, assume it might be a woman being “abused” and think they’re being a good Samaritan and someone (front desk…police?). I’ve heard some of the “tricks” (turn up TV, run shower, get a room at the end of the hall ect) …but do you have any thoughts or comments from first hand experience (no pun intended…lol)? Am I being ridiculously paranoid about it… and if you’re in a hotel anyway others probably figure it for what it is?

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    1. Hi Darren. I'm actually not sure. I added the current tabs along time ago and would have to think about whether there is a way to do it. I don't think there is a way to do it such a way as to allows someone to post directly, because that would require giving author rights to the blog. What I might be able to do is put up a page where I could post the emails of people who are willing to be contacted. Also, I am still playing with the idea of a Facebook-like group, but not on Facebook. Facebook makes it ridiculously hard for people to join anonymously or using pseudonyms. At one point, they were requiring some users to send them photos or IDs showing their identity. I suspect it was flagging anyone using Tor or a VPN. But, when I found a platform called MeWe that seems to be like Facebook but with actual privacy built in. I just haven't had time to set anything up, though I did reserve this blog's name. One attraction is a platform like that would meet the need you express for allowing people to post things themselves, start topics, etc., without me having to control the whole process

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  8. Elizabeth and Frank, you’re great and it’s been so additive to have you participating in the dialog so I think many of us hope you continue to, so please don’t take this too personally. That said, Dan I have to say, w/out coming across as patronizing. I was so proud of how you and others handled Elizabeth’s “request” (ok , sorry Elizabeth but yeah came across like a mandate) about how you censor the larger groups comments/participation to meet her/their desired constraints. Maybe it’s just been the past years of our “new society” and political landscape that I’m so tired of people dictating to the larger crowd what they’re allowed or not allowed to say. After all for God’s sake…we’re on a SPANKING BLOG. I think we all agree no one wants to see this become a salacious, sexual, kink free for all…but as people have felt more comfortable sharing more intimate aspects about themselves and what goes on in their relationships related to or as an outgrowth of DD/FLR the conversation has become a bit more “real”. I started coming here early on when I first came to the realization of my “need”, which like many (according to the DWC survey) can surface later in life. Something we don’t talk about is how hard it can be for those of us that had always been the in-charge, Alpha guys all our lives to then come to terms w/ all “this” , a dynamic that is SO contrary to all aspects of how we had always lived our lives. So one of the more important gifts this group has given me is the realization that I’m not a freak…there’s nothing wrong w me, I haven’t lost my mind and I’m not alone. So delving into ALL and that clearly includes the ancillary sexual aspects that we know is or can be part of this “activity” continues to make the conversations far more valuable.

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    1. Agree with Darren about the need for tolerance and inclusion here. I hope Elizabeth, and everyone else, is able to freely express their thoughts and preferences without expecting to override the Moderator.

      What's most important is that we hold together as a community. The world is so divisive these days over people's differences of opinion. I hope our micro-niche of commonality can be better than what's out there.

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    2. By the way, I'm not a porno fan and skip past it quickly anywhere I encounter it.

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    3. I agree as well. Especially if something isn't hyperlinked, it takes some effort to follow the link, so I really don't think it is a problem. Plus, all along the sidebar there are a bunch of other sites which are hyperlinked, and many of them probably have something closer to spanking porn.

      Having said that, I would hate to see Frank and Elizabeth quit contributing since I enjoy their input.

      -ZM

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  9. and lastly.....lol....OHHHHHHH and a quick aside on the “I’m not alone” front and seeing as the gym was mentioned last week…..a couple months back I was in the lockerroom and was shaving. I just so happened to see in the mirror a guy who was at the far end of the row of lockers behind me hastily dropping his towel and furiously yanking his boxers on…..in that brief second I saw a few bruises on his butt!!!!! I couldn’t wait to race home and tell my wife “see!!!!! It’s not just us…..there are normal regular people right around us apparently doing the same thing”…of course I now always make a point to scan the gym to see if he’s there…I’m not sure why, it’s not like I’d do or say anything…it’s just cool to know it’s going on in households all around.

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    1. Go ahead and ask. It is often useful to make contact with like-minded people.

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    2. If he was yanking up his boxers, I assume you are right about what led to the bruising. But, it's not a sure thing. Other than the bruising from the cane on my hip that I referred to, I really do not bruise very much these days. (I got another very, very hard spanking last night. Today, I have some dark reddening on the "sit spots," but that's really it. Yet, a while back I had an incident in which I slipped going down some stairs and came down hard on my ass. I was black and blue for well over a week. I have no explanation at all for why that fall left me looking like I had received a severe paddling, while ACTUAL severe paddlings now leave me barely marked at all.

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    3. We've run across people into the same things, too in our travels. I just showed this to husband. His comment was "and of course, as he was hurrying to pull them on, the waistband got snagged between his toes, he struggled with them, , then it snagged on the bench in the gym and as he stood up to free it, he almost lost his footing. And of course, everyone was looking since when you're trying to cover up something, everybody's suddenly very interested".

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    4. When you fall down the stairs, the stair collides with pelvic bone, bruising the skin that is pinched between. A good spanker only spanks flesh, never to the depth of reaching the pelvic bone. Very little bruising.
      A husband who knows

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    5. Makes sense. I also suspect it might have something do with she she is hitting me with leather and wood, and the surface area is fairly broad. The stairs were concrete, and I think most of my weight fell on the corner of the stair. So, very large force meets very hard and narrow object.

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  10. I have so far not cried as a result of an adult spanking. I asked my wife for her thoughts on this subject. She said she is determined not to pay any heed to whether or not I cry as a result of a spanking, as it would compromise things if the spanking varied according to whether or not I cried (i.e. would she be tempted to give me fewer strokes or softer strokes in response to tears). She says she kind of fantasises about making me cry though, as she would experience it close up afterwards, though she wouldn't want to go too far, as she knows she would never appreciate me in an emasculated state.

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  11. Tears were something I always wanted when I started spanking my then boyfriend now husband. I figured he didn't cry because he was just trying "not to be a sissy", even though he's always dressed like a sissy when he gets spanked.

    The first time tears came was after a couple of Disciplinary Sessions with what I call the Brown Spanking Paddle. I didn't have it long. It's a plain wood paddle about 4" wide, a foot and a half long, including the handle, and maybe 1/2" or a little less thick. It's brown and varnish . Husband fears the Brown Spanking Paddle more than any of my implements. He even once asked for Chastity rather than the Brown Spanking Paddle (he HATES Disciplinary Chastity. Of course, I gave it to him, AFTER he got the Brown Spanking Paddle).

    I had him across my lap, panties down, arm locked behind his back. He was yelping more and louder than usual when suddenly the tears came. I could see them flowing, the begging got more desperate and the apologies more sincere. He promised just about anything, if I would stop. I just swatted faster and harder. When I let him up, his makeup was completely a mess. Usually, it ran a little bit, as a spanking causes him to perspire, anyhow, but between the perspiration and the tears, it looked like melted ice cream on his face. It took all I had to keep from having him service me on the spot, I was that bothered. There were a couple more trips across my lap and a few tawsings before the Session ended. I had to restrain myself, again just to make him go back upstairs, fix his makeup (of course, I gave orders he was to SIT at his vanity while he did it.) and come back down and stand in the corner. I watched the clock as that hour ticked away until I called him out of the corner to service me. He's good, real good, but I'd never had an orgasm THAT fast.

    What I thought was weird though, was after that, no matter what I spanked him with, he cried. I first thought it was just the pain from the Brown Spanking Paddle that made him cry, but it couldn't be just that if he was crying no matter what I used. I wasn't complaining, of course, I wanted tears, the tearful begging and sob filled promises to be good.

    I'll stop this here before it becomes a TLDR and start another post on my thoughts about everything a little later.

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    1. There is one paddle in Anne's arsenal that has a similar place in my heart. I honestly don't know why it hurts so much more than others, since it is actually not as thick or heavy as some of our others, but it definitely packs a very distinct wallop.

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  12. Miss Cecilia It’s so cool that you make him wear panties and he’s in makeup when he is punished. Does he wear a full dress, girls shoes, wig etc. for his spankings too? That would be so humiliating! I wish my wife would make me do that too. We’ve just started spanking so I need to bring this up slowly. But thanks for posting!

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    1. Yes, he dresses for his Disciplinary Sessions. Part of my Disciplinary Method is he has dresses, shoes and lingerie he wears only for Disciplinary sessions. I dictate what underwear, shoes and dresses or blouses and skirts he'll wear for any session. I prefer him in sating "little girl" type party frocks with petticoats and panties with ruffles, ribbons and bows. I do add "grown up" underwear, too: bras, garter belts and stockings. I make him wear 5" or 6" heels, since they're harder for him to walk in and even harder for him to stand in for a long time, like when he has to stand in the corner before and after his Disciplinary Session; the discomfort's part of his discipline. He actually can manage the 5", but after all this time, he still has a hard time with the 6". He can't really stand in the corner for an hour in those, so, if he's in 6" for the session, I have him change to 5" when he goes to fix his makeup before I send him to the corner.

      We have a ritual where I either remove his dress and petticoats or I help him remove them before he fetches the implement I decree. When he goes across my lap, he's in all the underwear since only the dress and petticoats have been removed.

      Early on, I used to discipline him while he was fully dressed, but the skirts and petticoats just got in the way, even if I either held them up or made him do it. I later found out he feels more vulnerable when he's just in bra, panties, garter belt, stockings and heels. I don't think I'd have ever gotten tears if I still spanked him when he was fully dressed.

      I don't need a wig for him since he has a full thick head of long hair.

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  13. Look, folks, I know most of you know little about addiction. Access to videos is a "hard limit" for Frank. If there are video links here, he can't be here, period. To say he can just ignore the link, or it should be safe if he has to cut and paste it, shows a lack of understanding of how addiction works. We asked Dan to make sure video links are not posted; he refused, as is his right. So we cannot be here, period. The accusations that we are trying to impose our morality are just untrue, and a bit paranoid. My husband is following his 12-step addiction recovery. That's it. Good luck to you all.
    Elizabeth

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    1. No, Elizabeth, I did not "refuse." What I said was that you acknowledged that there have been no links to video pornography on the blog, that the definition of porn was highly subjective, that I would continue to police things appropriately on a case-by-case basis and, if that was not sufficient, then you should do what you need to do.

      For a perfect example of the problem, please look at the blog list to the right, which includes a link to the Consensual Spanking blog. That link has existed for years and, for perhaps the first time ever, the graphic displayed today is, in fact a video. There is no way for me to control that content other than deleting that blog from the general list of blogs I like, and I am not inclined to delete a link to a another DD blog that is perfectly in-line with the content here. The highly subjective nature of "porn" is probably illustrated best by the fact you seem to be saying that this blog, replete with drawings and photos of nude men and women and some with highly sexualized content, is not "porn" that presents a problem for Frank's addiction, but a line of text that was not an actual link is, in fact, a problem. If that is the line drawing that you expect me to do to ensure Frank is not tempted then, yes, I do "refuse" to undertake such a commitment in advance of seeing any content you or Frank find problematic.

      So, thank you for your contributions. If you change your mind, you are welcome to keep participating.

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    2. .....and we must honor the times when people, for their own reasons and best interest, choose to leave a community.

      May the road rise up to meet you.

      May the wind be always at your back.

      May the sun shine warm upon your face;

      the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,

      may God hold you in the palm of His hand.

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    3. Elizabeth, I don't know whether you will still see this. I think it is a shame that you have decided to leave. It seems to me that Frank must have remarkable willpower if he has refrained from viewing any spanking erotica or porn since you established a DD relationship. It would be so easy for him to access at any time, whether he comes to this site or not. But if you judge that participation here poses too much temptation due to his addiction, there is another possibility for you (and he) to continue, if you find value in that. You could participate directly yourself, but only allow Frank to participate through you. That is what I have been doing with my husband Wayne while I've been participating. Wayne probably isn't any less of a "spanking porn addict" than your husband, but I have chosen to allow him controlled access to spanking erotica I deem tasteful. I find Dan's blog very tasteful, so concern about "porn" isn't the reason I have kept Wayne at arms length from the discussions here. Wayne is very opinionated, and "mansplaining" is one of the bad habits I'm still working on with him as a part of our FLR. That's why I haven't allowed him to jump into these conversations, though I have asked for his opinion a few times. Sometimes it's good for him to just be quiet, I find. Anyway, I know your situation with Frank is very different than my situation with Wayne (DD versus FLR), but I don't see why you couldn't limit Frank's exposure to this blog while participating yourself. Just a thought.
      Danielle

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    4. Tomy Nash......that first line is absolute PERFECTION!!!!!!! Dan.....Well done. The only thing I want to make sure you understand Elizabeth is, you keep referencing "morality", I hope you appreciate no-one thinks you're trying to impose you're morality. And there are likely far more than you assume that truly get and sympathize w Frank about addiction. You simply stating if there's even the potential of something you mighty decide you may or not want Frank to see then you must depart. Anyone has to understand that. As Dan so aptly put it...you need to do what you need to do for your best interests. Some might have misunderstood what you were saying, because obviously wouldn't ask Dan to censor the site to accommodate specifics of Frank's potential constraints.

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    5. Hi, I'm a Catholic. What is pornography, the Catholic Catechism:

      "2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties."

      (For example, nudity is not pornography. Also the Catholic Church has many statues and paintings with nudity.)

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  14. Well I think many of us hear would shed a tear if Elizabeth and Frank depart. This does strike me as a genuine misunderstanding. No one is at fault here. I very much hope that they return and we can all be friends again.

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    1. Trying to reason with an unreasonable person is never reasonable ( or worthwhile).
      Alan

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    2. The Brown Spanking Paddle on husband's bare bottom suddenly makes him VERY "reasonable".

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    3. Cecilia,
      The application of the paddle to the bared bum of a deserving male has probably made many males " very reasonable" You have discovered the key to domestic harmony.
      Alan

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  15. After the first time, I noticed he cried every time I spanked him after, no matter what I used on him. I talked to some people to try to figure out what I had to do to make sure he always cried.

    One Professional Dominatrix who had some time after she just left a client in the hotel was a big help. She had me describe the whole thing from preparation to end. She used to be a Clinical Psychologist but being a Professional Dominatrix paid better for less hours.

    Husband had the day off and I had a short day at the hotel. I was particularly upset with him because it was going to be the 4th straight week I was spanking him for watching pornography. Without going into detail, the pornography he likes in particular is Playboy center fold and what he describes as "girl's work" in sexual acts. I decided I would turn him into something that was in his mind, very girly and have him perform this "girl's work" on some toys. Before I left,I told him to make sure his body hair was well shaved (I keep him shaved anyhow). I also told him that instead of just makeup and perfume, he was going to "layer" the scents; bath beads, bath gel, toilette water and finally perfume. I laid out his underwear and dress informed him he was to be in his corner for an hour before I got home (he has security cameras everywhere in his house) instead of the usual 20 minutes.

    I got home, he'd been in his corner for 1 hr. 10 min. I sat on the couch, called him out of his corner and told him to bring me a bottle of water from the fridge. He did it and I told him to stand in front of the coffee table. I don't usually go into long pre-spanking lectures, but I did that day. I pointed out how his kind of pornography was degrading to women and how would he like it if he had to do that and how displeased I was he continued to disobey me. I asked him a lot of questions and when he said "Yes, Miss Cecilia", I made him say out the whole sentence he'd said "yes"

    Then I made him do some "girl's work" on the toys. Finally, I put on some burlesque music and made him do a strip tease, but only taking off his dress and petticoats. I whistled at him and barked directions to "shake it".

    When it was time for him to finally go across my lap, I had him bring me the Brown Spanking Paddle, but I gave orders in a sharp voice. He knows he's supposed to bring the implement in both hands and walk slowly with his head bowed, but, I still gave the orders. He knows when I tap my lap with the implement, he's supposed to get across it, but, this time I told him to do it while I tapped my lap.

    After a couple of swats, what I said in the earlier posts happened.

    The Professional told me I'd finally broken through his resistance and his last barrier of "being a 'man' about it" by reinforcing what he thought were stereotypes and making him experience them, although one of the stereotypes was with toys rather than the real thing (and no, the real thing's never going to happen, he won't do it and I don't want it). The prolonged "girly" experience (or what he thinks is "girly") broke through his last resistance. The ordering him to do things he already knew he had to do without me telling him also broke down his last barriers. I reinforced the idea I was in complete control and he had no control, no way to stop or lessen it and was totally at my mercy (and I was merciless) subconsciously registered in him and let him cry.

    It seems to make sense, since the tears come every time. Sometimes, when he is still crying or sniffling after his discipline, me and my guest, if there is one, will call him a "sissy", "pansy", "Bopeep" (my father used to call my brother that, sometimes) or "crybaby" and I'll ask him if he needs anything else to cry for while I wave an implement at him. That usually brings a little begging with sobs in between.

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    1. Hi Miss Cecelia,
      I think it is not surprising that it was ultimately the humiliation that helped to break down the barrier. I expect that is pretty much always the case, whether the humiliation is due to feminization or merely from extended scolding or some other means.

      Also, I tend to agree that once the tears barrier is broken, it is easier to break and more likely to be broken through again (and again).

      -ZM

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  17. I don't have much to add to a tears discussion, but the recent spate of comments here has prompted an idea for a new topic: If a spouse agrees to punishment based solely on their partner's judgement, and they submit.... though perhaps grudgingly ...to a punishment they themselves think is unfair, or undeserved, or mistakenly applied, will merely picking the right implement or combination of degradations and using them severely enough be sufficient to change the position of the person being punished? And if so, is this sort of capitulation actually satisfying to the one in authority? ( IOW, just like a brutal beating can elicit a false confession from an innocent victim, does a surrender or apology under duress but without genuine sincerity achieve anything positive in a DD relationship?)

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    1. Kd’s good question deserves a thoughtful answer. As I understand the question he is asking whether accepting and being punished for something you either didn’t do or don’t agree is punishable or perhaps with the punishment itself (too harsh for example): is “sufficient to change the position of the person being punished? … Does a surrender or apology under duress but without genuine sincerity achieve anything positive in a DD relationship?” The simple answer is it can be positive depending on what the punished husband is expecting and how often it happens. David ‘answer probably cover a lot of men who long for their wife to exercise authority over him. The change is he is likely to respect her more, obey her more quickly and become more submissive with her. For couples who have hard and fast rules and consequences, an unjust spanking or other punishment is likely to cause conflict and resentment (this is one reason why I believe formal rules best serve as training wheels in an emerging DD relationship, but should evolve into a relationship where a wife has unchallenged authority to punish anytime for any reason she deems necessary)This replaces argument or resistance with a quick "Yes Ma'am". But there is a third case possible if a wife is repeatedly punishing unfairly and unreasonably. Something has gone terribly wrong is such a relationship. It is no longer truly consensual and is probably abusive. No positive change will happen in this latter case and the relationship itself may be terminal: just some thoughts inspired by a very good question
      Alan

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    2. Alan, I have a lot to say about your response but would rather wait to see if this issue ends up as a discussion point. It is already Friday after all. ;-)

      Thanks for appreciating the question too.

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    3. I think I agree with Alan, though I'm also not sure I understand what you mean, KD, by "sufficient to change the position of the person being spanked." I don't understand what you mean by "change the position"? "Position" as in their opinion of the "fairness" or "rightness" of the spanking, i.e. change their attitude about it? Or, do you mean their assessment of their relative "position" vis-a-vis the "Top" in the power hierarchy? The former seems like a stretch -- hard to see how the spanking itself would bring about some change in the assessment of the "fairness" or "rightness" of it. As for the latter, I could see how both being subjected to an unwarranted or otherwise "unfair" spanking could change the attitude of one or both parties, and do positively or negatively in terms of what both are looking to accomplish. Which is the sense in which I think I understand Alan's answer. I could see an "unfair" spanking from the Top result in either (a) developing a more sadistic attitude in which exercising arbitrary power is its own emotional reward or (b) learning a lesson in the importance of delving into the facts, exercising sound judgment, etc. With respect to the spanked party, I could see it causing resentment and distrust in some, or perhaps conversely an erotic thrill or admiration at her developing into someone who is more comfortable exercising power even if she doesn't get it right all the time. If this blog has taught me anything, it's that we each seem to have remarkably different reactions to similar contexts.

      And, btw, if tears are my obsession, then consent, fairness and maintaining control are definitely yours! :-)

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    4. LOL No argument there!

      My question came after reading a few exchanges where it seems there is a belief that to change an addictive behavior, or to have someone suddenly reverse position on their "reasonableness", all one needs to do is punish severely enough. So my question is: Is that true? And if it is, is such a punishment-induced change-of-heart meaningful or beneficial? So yes....will a spanking itself bring about a change in the recipient's view of its fairness or rightness...as long as it's done right. ;-)

      One time Rosa was being playful and was trying to get me to say that a lampshade in our room was plastic and not glass. (She thought it was plastic) And I couldn't do it, even as she spanked harder and harder to get me to back down. AND THIS WAS FOR FUN mind you, with both of us ending up laughing over my stubbornness in the face (or tail) of painful persuasion. Given a similar situation with a real issue, I think I'd have to be threatened with a hot poker blinding to admit to something that I don't agree with. I am curious as to whether others feel the same or differently because it seems like the going opinion is that proper spanking technique is all it takes to cure all of the ills that might befall any relationship or individual. Attitude. Addiction. Perhaps even racism and misogyny? All of it cured......if only women knew how to spank more effectively. ;-)

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    5. Got it. But are changing attitude on one hand and something like addiction on the other really the same thing, and are either of those the same thing as some factual disagreement like is a lamp shade plastic or is it glass? I don't know whether spanking could change an attitude in and of itself, but I do think it could prevent the *expression* of an attitude, and there are plenty of psychologists, performance "coaches," etc. who think that expressing an attitude strengthens it. So, could spanking "cure" some attitude problems? Maybe not directly, but indirectly -- perhaps. Addiction? I would never suggest that anyone try to "treat" destructive addictions like alcoholism with spanking. But, is it possible to end the indulgence of the addiction with it? Alan says it helped/made him stop smoking. So, I don't doubt that for some addictions in some people, it could at least help the addicted person stop engaging in the behavior. Now, the lamp example -- definitely a stretch, but isn't one of the themes of Orwell's 1984 that if you apply sufficient pain over a significant enough period of time, someone can be made to think black is white or white is black and really believe it. So, maybe Rosa just didn't whack you long enough or hard enough. ;-)

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    6. I want to clarify my experience with smoking, spanking and addiction. It definitely is an addiction -a powerful one- and spanking absolutely stopped it. But it wasn't only spanking but a combination of severity, consistently, her will, AND importantly my desire to both stop and please her.Would this combination work with other addictions? I don't know and am no expert on addictive behavior.My only other similar experience was with unauthorized masturbation which she tackled with similar determination and did cut it down drastically from at least once a day to once or twice a year. Still despite the consequences I still slip up a couple of times a year.So if male masturbation is a kind of addiction one could say spanking helped cure smoking addiction but only tamed masturbation
      Alan

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    7. Alan, I completely understand this. I would never, ever advise someone to use spanking to try to "cure" a psychological condition like depression or an addiction like alcoholism or addiction to some drugs. See a trained professional! But, I can see it working for some people on some addictive behavior. But, I think you are right that it would require everything you mention -- severity, consistency, will and determination, and a genuine desire to stop.

      I quit smoking well before we got into DD and did it on my own, but only after several failed attempts. So, I didn't need DD to stop, but I do think had we been into it at the time, maybe some of those earlier failed attempts would have succeeded. Conversely, her attempts to address alcohol haven't been very successful, because they meet--at most--only one of the factors you identify. Severity - yes, she spanked me hard many times for drinking too much. Consistency, no,not really. For some hardwired habit, I think there would have to be something close to "zero tolerance" in order to override my own preferences. Determination -- not really. It has been an issue for her, but not in the way smoking or masturbation seem to have been for your wife. My desire to quit -- this is really the big one that overrides all the others. No, I do not wish to become a teetotaler. I like drinking socially, and it serves a function in my career. And, I just like various beers and spirits, so I don't intend to ever really stop drinking, even if I do recognize the need for more moderation.

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    8. Danielle here:

      KD, I think you have raised an excellent question, to which I will give my two cents worth.

      I don’t think you can spank someone into submission to an opinion or a belief they honestly don’t hold. And even if you could, I believe it would be wrong to do so. Wayne has consented to a FLR in which I have the authority to spank him (or punish him otherwise) as I see fit. It’s not a “fair” arrangement because I am just as fallible as he is but disciplinary authority goes one way. If he errs or behaves in a way that annoys me, I can punish him. If I err or behave in a way that annoys him, all he can do is talk to me about it.

      Within that unfair arrangement, I feel I have a duty to be as fair as possible. Though I consider myself to be quite strict, I do occasionally allow Wayne to talk himself out of punishments when I can see he sincerely believes it is unfair. In a way, it’s quite remarkable that a man who wants me to spank him will try to argue his way out a spanking, so I tend to listen when he does. Usually I am confident that a spanking is justified because I can see during the scolding that always precedes a spanking that he feels ashamed. If I see no sign of shame, but rather a sincere belief that he is blameless, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.

      I would also say this coin has two sides. I don’t think I could force Wayne to feel honest contrition by increasing the severity of a spanking. If he believes the punishment is unjust, increasing the severity will only deepen the feeling of injustice and may cause resentment. Conversely, when I see a shamefaced response to a scolding, I don’t feel a need to spank harshly to bring about the kind of contrition I want to see. Just scolding gets him part way there. The shame of having his bum bared like a naughty little boy gets him closer. And at the point a brief paddling may humble him sufficiently for my taste. That’s why I employ corporal punishment with moderation.

      I would never punish Wayne for a disagreement about a factual matter (except maybe playfully, as Rosa seems to have done with KD). Google can often settle disagreements about fact. Nor would I punish him for an honest disagreement of opinion. But I like Dan’s distinction between an attitude and the *expression* of an attitude. Even though I don’t spank Wayne for disagreeing with me (or other people), I may spank him for the way he expresses his disagreement. I recall an old expression, “Nobody like a know-it-all.” Actually, there is nothing wrong with a person being very knowledgeable. It is the smug, arrogant, or overbearing manner of the “know-it-all” that grates on people. Or on matters of opinion, the know-it-all’s apparent belief that his opinion must be right, or his inability to just let an argument go. I have spanked my husband for THAT, and I’m pretty sure I will do so again.

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    9. This kind of fairness is what makes FLR so attractive and effective to me. When you know and trust that the disciplinary authority is basing their judgement on such reasonable considerations, it inspires respect that goes well beyond simply being attracted to power. In this case a more severe spanking or other punishment is a message that carries the weight of that sound judgement, and it should motivate the one being disciplined to at least look hard at why they're being punished. It's the respect that causes that assessment rather than being beaten into submission.

      While I don't like to have to say this about myself, I know I can come across as a "know-it-all" at times, not because I actually think I know it all or anything close, but because I get overly enthusiastic or invested in my point of view. Sometimes the attitude can be described as arrogance. If she is fair-minded and approaches the situation with intelligence and reason, there is nothing quite as powerful an arrogance buster as a punishment spanking.

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  18. Not only would I graciously submit to such a spanking, but I would welcome it! The positive element is that it reinforces my wife’s authority to spank me for whatever reason she wants — or no reason at all. I find it extremely comforting and arousing at the same time that she can do that. I’ve never actually had that experience. Most of my spankings so far have been at my request for things I believe I should be punished for (not making my weight loss goals, being insensitive). The last spanking, however, was wonderful because my wife initiated it because I had drank excessively. As I discussed earlier this week, I am thrilled that she is growing in her DD role. If she spanked me for something that she falsely believed I did, but I really didn’t, that would be even more impressive because it shows her exerting her authority even when I’m arguing against it. I am so lucky that she is spanking me l. So many men crave it and don’t get it. So I would be totally encouraging of her to spank me very harshly even if I don’t think I did anything bad

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    2. (prior comment deleted for a grammatical error.)

      David: Your answer, while sincere and precise, does not address the issue I posed because in my question the punished party is not welcoming it. The fact that you find the punishments thus far decreed by your wife to be beneficial at best and arousing at the very least. My question is whether someone who does not think the punishment is warranted and consents only out of a sort of "I agreed to this" precondition, can be made to admit wrong where they do not believe it exists merely by being punished hard enough? ....and if so, whether such a surrender is beneficial or satisfying?

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  19. Kd:
    Yes certainly someone can be spanked into saying something they don’t believe.

    Is such a surrender beneficial or satisfying? I think I have to go with the commentator who says it depends on the nature of the relationship, etc. for me I would be fine with it, for reasons I discussed earlier. But I can see how for a couple who have been practicing DD for a long time, it could be abusive

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  20. It is indeed a fine line, or perhaps an important philosophical principle for DWC men to keep in mind. Abuse is unacceptable and should be confronted - IF that's what's really happening.

    But submitting to her authority, even if one disagrees, comes with the benefit of reinforcing her position and for some, perhaps most, the security and comfort of that supersedes the temporary "injustice". IMHO

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  21. I don't consider submitting to my wife's authority abuse nor do I feel a hard spanking which brings tears abuse. I do feel and so does my wife that drawing blood is probably over the line so for us she will not draw blood. A little bruising can be expected on my bottom.

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    1. I would go so far as to say that even the instances of "injustice" are not necessarily "abuse" but rather a misfire within the volatility inherent in a relationship where one partner has exclusive power to punish the other.

      Rosa has wanted to punish for things that I refused to accept. She backed down and we discussed the issue. What she wanted made perfect sense to her and didn't seem unfair to her......but DD takes two. I think that an abusive relationship is VERY different than the occasional abuse of authority. I think sometimes it's unrealistic to think it won't ever happen even with usually sweet, supportive and wonderful people ......like my Honey. ;-)

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    2. At the risk of extending our recent exercises in labeling and categorizing, it seems to me there are really three our four different aspects of authority going on here:

      -- Legitimate but unpleasantly exercised authority: Both parties think the exercise of authority was within the bounds of what they have agreed to (whether they are very rule-based or have a "any time, anywhere for any reason"), and for whatever reason he has a negative reaction to it. This one may fall into the rubric of "be careful what you wish for . . . you might get it."
      -- Mistaken use of authority: This is KD's scenario in which the disciplinarian thinks some banned behavior happened, but it really did not. The exercise of authority here isn't really an "abuse of power" but, rather, acting on mistaken information or as KD calls it, a "misfire." It seems to me this one is highly, highly relationship-dependent. The "injustice" of not being believed is understandable, but perhaps only if one assumes the husband has a track record for being scrupulously honest and, thus, of course she should believe his denial. Some wives are in that envious position and others are not. There is also the question of, if you were "unjustly" spanked once, how many times did you get away without one because you didn't get caught or because she let you slide?
      -- Abuse of power: This could cover doling out punishments on an arbitrary basis, inflicting punishments that are degrading in a way that is detrimental the person's psychological health, or exercises of power that are purely for her own self-interest and do not consider his needs, wants or perspective. While some may see some or all of these as OK, my view is this isn't really an abuse of DD authority but, rather, what they are doing is not DD. It is some kind of Master-slave or Femdom thing. A gray area here, and one on which KD and I might not agree is when the husband's conduct caused some harm or had some negative impact on others, even if he saw his intent otherwise. One example could be saying something that hurt someone's feelings, either in the heat of the moment or just because the husband wasn't thinking. I don't see punishing that as an abuse regardless of the subjective intent he had in his mind when he spoke, if her intent in spanking him afterwards is to make him think twice before speaking without thinking in the future, especially if there is a track record of this being a problem.
      -- Inexperienced or just plain poor leadership: An example KD and I have talked about: The husband gets punished for not picking up his clothes, while the wife is a slob who seldom cleans up after herself. Again, this seems to cover at least two scenarios. First, in the DD context, it does seem to me it doesn't reflect well on her leadership skills and is the kind of "do what I say, not what I do" management style that one sometimes finds in newbie or downright poor managers. I think it was Elizabeth who talked about how DD has led her to hold herself more accountable for her own failings, which one would hope would be the case for many disciplinarians. Second, this could again be something where the couples are fine with this very unequal situation but, again, does that dynamic really have much to do with DD, or is it really Femdom or Master-slave stuff?

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    3. I would agree with all of those distinctions and perhaps with more time add some more color or nuance to each......but essentially see them as accurate.

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  22. Hi Dan,
    I feel bad that I didn't get much of a chance this week to weigh in on the "tears" topic, which happens to be about my very favorite. At the same time, I don't really have much to add to it. Even though we have broken the tears barrier, I think there is still much more to experience and much more understanding to be had. This last year just hasn't been the time to take things a lot further, for many reasons. Still, I do find the topic of tears about the most fascinating topic of all.

    Also, I am really enjoying reading KD's recent questions and the comments on that. I don't know that I really have anything to add, and it is almost a new week anyway, so probably it isn't worth writing too much on anyway. But it is a very good topic since it is all about effectiveness of punishment to change behaviors, consent, attitudes, different perspective between spanker and spankee, and probably lots of other things. I hope we have time to probe it further soon!

    -ZM

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  23. This witnessing line triggered an old memory. One that was kind of nice to get back.

    I was probably eleven years old, living in Florida beofre it go to be such a populated state. Not much air conditioning and people wore just enough to be socially acceptably clothes; "People" being adults..we just wore a pair of shorts all day, period.

    Our neighbor across the street was a single mom and even then I could tell she was pretty nice looking. Anyway one day my friend that I played with all the time, her son, was teasing me and being an asshole and I warned him I was going to tell his Mom if he didin't stop.

    Well he didn't, so I did, and to my astonishment she immediately took him into the bedroom and spanked him soundly. I was right in the other room - open airy Florida house, so I heard every detail.

    She left him in the corner in the bedroom and when she came out I confessed it was my fault too. I KNOW I wanted to taste some of her spanking too and I suspect she knew. (women know)

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    1. You and definitely differ in that respect. When I was a boy, if a friend was getting a spanking there is no way I would have done anything to expressly or implicitly volunteer for one myself! But, your comment does bring up memories of how liberally spankings were doled out when I was a kid. What you describe was totally the norm where I grew up.

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