Saturday, July 7, 2018

Disciplinary Wife Profile - Helen


“You have to be a man before you can be a gentleman.” –John Wayne (McLintock!)


Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple's Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in Domestic Discipline or Wife Led marriages (aka Female Led Relationships). I hope you had a great week.

A new development in mine is my wife's new, and seemingly sustained, interest in reading and really thinking about Domestic Discipline.  She seems to be arriving at that point some of us talked about a few weeks ago in which she starts really internalizing  this process and doing it because she wants it.  In other words, owning it.  She has powered through a couple of books on the subject.  She's also shown a new interest in this blog, which I came to find out when she announced out of the blue that she objected to, and strongly disagreed with, a comment I made to the effect that I do more of the housework than she does. I may be paying for that one!

What a great discussion last week.  As I said, the last time I posted about that topic I got four comments.  This time we had over 75 (if you include my responses), including a great discussion about the nature of manliness and metaphors for this thing we do, such as the ever popular Queen and her knight.  In relation to the theme of positive views of the male role and the possibility--perhaps the necessity--of being "manly" even within the context of a DD marriage, I saw this article on the myth and reality of another great manliness archetype, the alpha wolf: https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/how-to-really-be-alpha-like-the-wolf/.  It's an interesting read. I kind of like this website, though a lot of it is aimed at a much younger male cohort, i.e. guys who need help on practical knowledge like learning how to tie a necktie or dress for a job interview, not for the old fart crowd that frequents this blog.

I would also like to welcome our newest Disciplinary Wife commenter, Helen.  She is going to give me a little respite this week from pontificating about a particular topic, by instead telling us about how she and her husband Andy came to be a DD couple.  If any other Disciplinary Wives would like me to post a similar story about how they got here or a profile of their DD or Female Led relationship, just let me know either with a comment here or by sending me an email.  I really would like to seriously ramp up the female participation here, so I hope others will take me up on this offer. For this week, I hereby introduce Helen:

The story of me beginning to spank Andy is a little different than the typical one of the husband finally getting the courage to ask his wife to spank him. We sort of came to it together, which is very appropriate for our marriage because it is not FLR—we make major decisions together. Because we are Catholic, there are some areas where he is rightly the leader: He is our protector, provider, and spiritual leader. But the Bible also says that the wife is the manager of the household, and we have taken that to mean that I am very much in charge of the day-to-day operations and in that realm he is a “servant-leader": Instead of washing feet (as Christ did), Andy washes toilets (LOL). OK, enough religion, but I thought that background was important.

 We had been married for several years when our disciplinary life began. I was a young stay-at-home wife and mother trying to care for a household and a baby with colic and feeling overwhelmed. He was a young professional trying to launch a career and feeling overwhelmed. We had a very traditional marriage: I did the cooking and cleaning and he brought home the bacon.

But I also am three years older than Andy and have always been in a mentor position with him: we met in high school when he was a freshman taking advanced chemistry (he is very smart and is now a chemical engineer) and I was a senior assigned by the teacher to be his lab partner and to “show him the ropes” (though we aren’t into bondage, LOL). I also am much more outgoing than Andy (some would say dominant), while he is more reserved (some would say submissive). So, here we were, a young married couple, both stressed out and bickering constantly about the so-called little things (him not helping around the house, coming home late without calling, leaving the toilet seat up, forgetting to take out the garbage, and on and on and on, driving me to distraction and to be a nag … if not a complete bitch).

I knew something had to change. He acted like such a naughty little boy that I wanted to treat him like one. And to me that meant spanking: I grew up with two younger brothers in a home where the mom was the disciplinarian, and they got the hairbrush over her knee fairly regularly. (I got it a couple times myself, but that is another story.)  Andy also grew up with a mom as the disciplinarian; his dad died when he was quite young. And coincidentally, he also got OTK spankings with a hairbrush (he called it a hairbrush but I later learned it was a clothes brush). We had shared this information about our childhoods with each other while having those exploratory conversations that people have while dating.

So the scene was somewhat set, as they say. One day, when Andy AGAIN forgot to take out the garbage as promised (and missed the garbage truck), and he was complaining about my scolding him for it, I said, “Well, what would your mother have said to you?”

“She wouldn’t have said anything,” he replied.

“She wouldn’t have said anything when you forgot to take out the garbage for the umpteenth time?”

And he blurted out, “It’s not what she would have said, it’s what she would have done.”

And then he blushed to the roots of his hair.

And I said, “What would she have done?”

He didn’t say anything, but I was sort of figuring it out.

“She would have let her hairbrush do the talking?” I asked.

“I’m not saying a word,” he said and quickly left the room.

So I had to read between the lines, which was the way our relationship was back then. When it came to sex or anything really private, we did not talk about it directly.

I figured it was pretty certain that he was saying that his mom would have spanked him for not taking out the garbage, which means she was spanking him maybe into his teen years (we had not ever discussed when the spankings stopped in our respective homes). It also was clear to me that his mom’s spankings worked with him. But what was not at all clear was whether he would accept spankings from his wife.

One part of me would have loved to talk to his mother about this, but I would have been so embarrassed to bring it up. But I started playing very close attention when we visited her, and I noticed more than I had before that there was a lot of “Yes, Ma’am” and “No, Ma’am” coming out of his mouth and that he treated her with a lot more respect than he treated me. I also noticed that very occasionally she would threaten him when he did something she didn’t like. She was very strict, and especially so about language. To her, “Oh my God” and such phrases were a form of swearing. One time we were at her house and he said “Oh my God” and she commented tartly, “You’re not getting too big for your britches, are you, young man?” And he immediately said, “No, Ma’am” and was quiet and respectful the rest of the evening.

Well, I knew very well that the britches line is a euphemism for getting pants taken down for a spanking, and while a lot of moms might use that just as an expression, I knew otherwise with Andy’s mom. Not that she would actually spank him as a 20-something married adult, but that she meant he could use some discipline like she used to provide. And I actually started to wonder whether she made that comment for MY benefit as well as his!

Being a young wife without a great deal of confidence, I did nothing after that. But I did think about it. And eventually I cooked up a plan which may seem quaint to many of you, but this was many years ago and times were different and we just did not come straight out with things. And even today, how many wives would have the guts to say to their big strong husbands, “I think I should start spanking you”?

My plan was tied to my birthday that was coming up. We were in the habit of getting lists from each other and then buying off those lists—not everything on the list, so that it was still a surprise, but maybe half the things. So I put on my list “a hairbrush.” And a couple of weeks before my birthday he came to me and said, “I have a question about your birthday list.”

“Oh?” I said.

“You listed a hairbrush. What sort of hairbrush?”

“Why don’t you surprise me?” I said.

“You don’t like the hairbrush you have?” he asked.

“No,” I said. “It’s cheap plastic. I would like a wooden one.”

“OK,” he said, “what else?”

“As I said,” I replied. “Surprise me.”

“But I don’t know anything about hairbrushes!” he exclaimed.

“I don’t know what to tell you,” I replied coyly. “Why don’t you ask your mom?”

And I left it at that. I didn’t know if he was reading between the lines—men typically aren’t very good at picking up signals—but I had decided that this would be my test: If he gave me a brush that was obviously good for spanking, I would try to take the next step. If he gave me a brush that was no good for spanking, I would let it go and try to deal with his recalcitrance some other way.

I was nervous and excited birthday morning. He had bought me several presents—I knew none of them was very expensive because we didn’t have a lot of discretionary income—but there was really only one that I cared greatly about. And when I opened the present, it was perfect: a large flat-backed wooden oval with a shaped handle.

“Do you like it?” he asked.

“I love it!” I said. (I wanted to add, “But I don’t think you will,” but I was chicken.)

Then Andy brought up spanking! (And I realized that he must have been thinking about it too as he bought the brush, which he later confirmed).

“Would you like me to give you your birthday spanking with it?” he asked (even though we had no such tradition in our young marriage).

I saw an opportunity and I jumped on it. “I think YOU should take my birthday spanking for me!” I said with a slight grin. He just laughed. “No, I’m serious,” I said a bit sternly—and I pointed the hairbrush directly at him. “Come over here.”

And in that moment Andy morphed right before my eyes into a naughty little boy who had been caught misbehaving. He stood up and came to me, with his face burning and his eyes cast down. He stood still by my right side, hands at his sides. I had expected him to bend over, but he didn’t. He just stood there. And then I realized what he was waiting for—for me to take his pants down! Which I promptly did … to find him in a manly way, as they say.

I put him over my knee and started to give him a light-hearted play spanking with my new hairbrush—29 spanks and one to grown on. But as I whacked his bare bottom I started to feel drunk (and turned on) from the power he was relinquishing to me. The spanks got harder and harder until he was grunting. And then my exasperation came to the fore.

“Are … you … going … to ever … forget … the garbage … again?” I scolded, punctuating each word with a hard spank.

“No, Ma’am!” he exclaimed.

“And … are … you … going.. to … call … whenever … you … are … late?” I yelled, continuing to spank hard.

“Yes, Ma’am!” he hollered back, and I could hear the pain in his voice.

“Good!” I said, and paused. “And do you agree that this is what should happen whenever you misbehave in the future?”

He hesitated. I whacked him a few more times. “Yes, Ma’am!” he exclaimed.

I pushed him off my knees and he buried his face in my lap. He was sobbing softly. I stroked his hair. After I few moments I reached down and kissed the top of his head. He turned toward me and we kissed on the lips. It turned into a passionate embrace, and we proceed to have explosive sex right there in the living room. He was all man again, believe me. And that is how it has been ever since!"  

Thank you, Helen!  I hope all the rest of you have a great week. 

95 comments:

  1. Hi Helen,
    Thank you for your contribution. As Dan often says we need the feminine perspective as we discuss issues and yours is very insightful. Andy's background, especially strict discipline he received at home into his teens from a strict mom is very similar to mine.I feel I understand him pretty well. Being spanked that late leaves a need for externally imposed discipline in an adult relationship, sometimes to function well, and Andy is very fortunate you had the ability to sense that and act on it early in your marriage.I also find you account fascinating because it confirms my evolving belief that many women are natural if inhibited disciplinarians who would rather spank than bitch at their naughty boy husbands.It sounds like once Andy acknowledged your authority to discipline him ( not to mention his obvious need for it) that you were only too happy to oblige. Good luck to both of you and thanks again for your contribution
    Alan

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    1. The range of parental influence on our later disciplinary desires is interesting. In your case and in the case of Helen's Andy, you both received strict discipline into your teens and attribute that to some of your adult disciplinary needs. In my case, I grew up in my early years in an area of the country where corporal punishment was just part of every kid's experience. But, while my mother had a very strong personality, by the time I was in my teens my parents were imposing and/or enforcing basically no rules at all. So, you attribute the *presence* of maternal discipline to your current interests, while I think its *absence* is at least part of what motivates mine.

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    2. Hi Dan,
      I think both kinds of experiences (too much and too little) can lead to an interest in spanking as an adult although I also believe there is some sort of genetic hard wiring that trigger it in adult life. I can readily identify with Andy who by the way was extremely lucky to have Helen recognize and act upon his need so early. He apparently experienced punishment spankings well past the time spanking is usually ended as discipline My guess is that being disciplined this way meant he grew up polite, well trained and probably attractive to many women. But it also meant he became dependent to some degree on externally imposed discipline and tended to act out without it. Helen figured that out quickly and nipped in the bud behavior that could have wrecked their relationship. By spanking him for misbehavior she not only avoided much frustration but gave him the security he needed knowing she would not let him get very far off the rails before she imposed consequences. All of this is good. But speaking for myself (although Andy might agree) the late spankings really took the choice away from me. A few years in my 20’s without them and I was getting into trouble. Fortunately a girlfriend came into my life who resolved that issue forever. Also l have reason to think my mom knew what would happen and probably wanted it to happen. I have mixed feelings about that
      Alan

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    3. I agree with Alan about the genetic hard wiring, though I think for me it triggered early! I also totally agree about the benefits of using DD to proactively prevent relationship-wrecking behavior patterns from developing as well as providing the security of imposed and enforced boundaries.

      I am much like Dan, I believe, because I think that the lack of boundaries and discipline when I was a teenager is a large part of what contributes to my want and need for this.

      -ZM

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    4. Hi-ZM,
      It's really interesting that you identify with Dan with respect to the lack of boundaries growing up. I can really understand how that could be although there are probably plenty of men like Andy and myself who were trained at home to expect boundaries would be imposed.But if you and Dan are examples too, think about the coming generations where many parents have practically abandoned boundaries and discipline. As far as marital spanking and discipline we may be just the tip of the ice berg
      Alan

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    5. Fascinating point, Alan. God knows many millennials could use a good spanking! But, more seriously, there is an interesting trend that seems to be developing in which more and more women are succeeding, while more and more men are not. It's borne out in college entry rates, graduation rates, advanced degrees . . . and there are two generations of "men" who have been raised that it's OK to spend your days sitting on a couch playing videogames. It seems like when these two genders come together, the combo is increasingly likely to comprise a high-performance woman paired with a man whose maturity level is about 10 years behind where it should be. Sounds like a fine prescription for a rising tide of marital discipline!

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    6. Dan
      You are very much on point and it is worrisome that so many man are falling behind, something many experts are both concerned about and puzzled about. One thing seems sure and that is that the women who find themselves in the future with these immature males are either going to discipline them or leave them. Whether the discipline is with paddle, strap and hairbrush or more traditional methods like nagging and withholding sex, this will happen. I remember a phrase a former girlfriend used many times as she started to spank me and it was something like. "This is just so Healthy". I think many women may learn that in the coming yeas.
      Alan

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    7. There is a great scene in the movie The Intern, in which Anne Hathaway's character is the founder and boss of a highly successful start-up, at which Robert De Niro's character has been hired as an intern. They go to a bar with three of their Millennial colleagues, all of whom fit the profile of soft, nerdy video-game slackers. After two tequila shots, she observes:

      Jules: So we were always told we could be anything, do anything. And I think guys got, maybe not left behind, but not quite as nurtured, you know? I mean, like, we were the generation of "you go, girl."We had Oprah. And I wonder sometimes how guys fit in, you know? They still seem to be trying to figure it out. They're still dressing like little boys. They're still playing video games.

      Slacker 1: Well, they've gotten great. So...

      Slacker 2: I love video games!

      Slacker 3: Oh, boy.

      Jules: How, in one generation, have men gone from guys like Jack Nicholson and Harrison Ford to... [pregnant pause, looking at Slackers 1, 2 and 3]

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  2. Hi Helen. Welcome to the group. I really enjoyed reading your story. Our situation here has some similarities.

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  3. Hi Helen,
    Thanks for telling us how you began to spank Andy. I like the description of the first time you spanked him, I found it very romantic - giving him a good hard spanking for behaving like a naughty boy, making him promise to accept spanking as a punishment when he misbehaved in future, and then having sex right in the living room. Long may you continue to spank him and have sex with him!
    richard

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  4. I too enjoy reading Helen's story and particularly how it differs from others. For example me and Mrs Good Life are athists by choice, neither of us were spanked in the teen years, we don't have sex after my chastisements and in terms of domestic roles its very much a mixed bag with no gender steriotypes applying. Interesting even though I wasn't spanked in my teens that doesn't stop me nay on 40 years later having that "naughty boy over Mummies lap" fantasy rite large in my head ( it would not be wise to ask Mrs GL to roleplay that). Cheers GLM

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    1. It might not be "wise". But it might be right.

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    2. Could well be but Mrs GL's committment to her role isn't so strong I would risk it. Cheers GLM

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  5. Welcome Helen, It is always good to hear from the feminine side, and I like how you took the first step, and it was sexually exciting for both of you. I think a lot more wives would embrace spanking their husbands if they knew of the positive results in their marriages.

    Dan, I can't wait to hear how your life changes now that your wife has started doing research and reading your blog. She can get a lot of good ideas from the other ladies here.

    John

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  6. Helen's contribution obviously took a lot of work to write. Thanks for the generosity of time and candid sharing.

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  7. Helen's account is one more solid example of how differently people who are seemingly like-minded on the topic of DD, can express that inclination.....or arrive at it. For me and Rosa, Helen's account is both charmingly familiar and confusingly alien.....depending on what aspect we look at. And regardless of the details, I love its candor.

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  8. Awesome post, Dan. I will write separately about Helen's narrative, but I just want to say I'm sorry if I got you into trouble by conversing with you about "service domination". I have to chuckle a bit though, because when you wrote that you already do more than your fair share of the housework, I said to myself, "If Dan's wife is anything like mine, I hope she doesn't read that comment."

    Actually, I do have a question for Helen about housework, since we are on that topic. Of your marriage before you took up the hairbrush, you wrote: "We had a very traditional marriage: I did the cooking and cleaning and he brought home the bacon." You also joked that Andy now "washed the toilet." Does that mean that, although Andy continues to be the main breadwinner, you increased his share of the housework after you gained disciplinary power over him? I had to smile at the joke that, as "servant-leader", "Andy washes the toilet" because my wife's first decision after she took up the hairbrush was that cleaning the bathrooms would be my chore evermore. I don't think she has washed a toilet since that day. LOL
    DJ
    DJ

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  9. Hi Helen,

    I want to say first of all, how beautiful, romantic, and sexy I find your account of becoming the loving disciplinarian of your husband Andy.

    I find it interesting that you reject the label of FLR on the grounds that 1.you make major decisions together, and 2. in some areas he is the leader (protector, provider, spiritual leader).

    I use the label FLR to describe my marriage, but it is actually not unlike your arrangement with Andy. My wife and I also make major decisions together. I don’t think she would like me simply to leave major decisions to her. I think it would be lonely for either partner in z marriage to have to make decisions alone (like an adult living with a child), and I imagine my wife would get really annoyed if I answered “Whatever you think is best, dear,” every time she asked me what I thought we should do. I will say, however, that if we disagree on a major decision after talking things through, she is the ultimate authority. That has had practical consequences for me when it comes to spending decisions. I am sometimes jealous of male friends who have nice home theatre systems and other "toys" in their “man caves” because I don’t make big purchases without my wife’s permission, and she is not afraid to say “no” to me.

    How does it work with you and Andy if you don’t reach consensus on a decision? Do you have ultimate veto power as wielder of the hairbrush?

    Like Andy, I do exercise leadership in certain domains. I think my wife also thinks of me as “protector and provider”, and maybe even as “spiritual leader” in some contexts. Even now that I am retired, and therefore able to do practically all the housework, my pension is our biggest source of income, so I continue to be a provider, and my wife entrusts financial management to me.

    However, a big difference between my wife’s leadership and mine is that disciplinary authority belongs to her alone. If I am unhappy about something she has done or said, I can tell her how I feel, and she will take my feelings into consideration. But if she is unhappy with me, she can spank me. Is your marriage not also an FLR in that sense?

    I must say, Helen, your tactic for figuring out whether Andy wanted you to spank him was brilliant. I see myself in Andy, the way you describe him, and I can imagine how nervous and excited he must have been while shopping for a hairbrush for you. When I bought a brush like that for my wife at the local drug store, is was actually labelled as a “paddle brush.” I guess “paddle” just refers to the shape of it, but the people who manufacture those brushes must know they are going to be used to paddle bums.

    Given that your spanking Andy leads to great, passionate sex, I would surmise that Andy has fantasized about being spanked by you right from the beginning of your relationship at school. Think about it. You were three years older than him. That isn’t a big difference now that you are adults, but when he was a shy,freshman boy being mentored by an outgoing, senior girl, that gap must have felt huge to him. If Andy was anything like me, he would have fantasized that your status as mentor extended to the kind of female disciplinary authority he experienced at home. I can imagine how embarrassing and arousing that fantasy must have been. And even though you are adults now, and your age difference isn’t really that great, I can imagine that the initial power dynamic of senior girl mentoring freshman boy is deeply imprinted in his sexual imagination.

    In any case, it is wonderful story, and you and Andy are very lucky to have one another.

    DJ

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  10. First of all, a big thank you to all who have welcomed me (and Andy). He is familiar with many of you, as he has read most if not all of the blog entries as a longtime lurker. I am new to the Disciplinary Couples Club but based on your welcome I plan to keep posting.
    To respond to a few of the comments and questions:
    If you guys don’t know it, women have a thing about bathrooms and in particular the lack of respect that many men show in their bathroom behavior. When Andy and I mutually agreed that the home was my domain and he must obey me in the management of it, I made a rather lengthy list of things that were going to change. When I presented it to him, he quickly began laughing! I started to get mad because I was thinking that he was going to refuse to change his behavior. But he said he burst out laughing because the top three things on the list were all about bathrooms—something I didn’t even realize I had done! They were:
    1. The master bathroom in our bedroom is now ladies only. You will enter only to clean it or if I have given you express permission to enter.
    2. You will clean both bathrooms top to bottom each Saturday morning, and I WILL be inspecting your work.
    3. You will sit down to pee at home and in all bathrooms that do not have a urinal. That way I will never again be impacted by your poor aim—and I know that the toilet seat will always be down.
    I didn’t realize how much resentment I was holding about bathroom behavior! But I since have talked to many girlfriends about this—and such resentment is common. So many of you men are naughty bathroom users! Andy never lifted a finger to clean the bathrooms in the three-plus years of our marriage before this list was written. Well, he has paid for it mightily—I haven’t scrubbed a toilet since! And eventually I began holding him accountable for the misbehavior of his guy friends: If one of them pees on the toilet or floor, Andy is required to talk to him about it … or that friend may not return to our home. And if Andy is reluctant to have that conversation, he gets a hairbrush reminder. So there!
    The above commentary partially answers DJ’s question, “Does that mean that, although Andy continues to be the main breadwinner, you increased his share of the housework after you gained disciplinary power over him?” The answer is a resounding yes. Have you all read the treatise, “Real Women Don’t Do Housework”? (www.rwddh.com/) It’s an amazing essay on much more than housework. It’s about how a man can serve his wife as her knight (and the techniques she can use to train him).
    For many years now I have worked from home as an artist and writer. I do not put in an 8-hour day, and because of that I still do some of the housework and virtually all of the cooking. But I do NOT do the tasks that I do not enjoy. Andy, besides cleaning all the toilets, has a daily chore list, a weekly chore list, and a monthly chore list. Since I do all of the cooking, he does most of the cleaning—about 70 percent. Is that fair, when he works an 8-hour day (or longer) and I work 3-5 hours a day? My hairbrush says it is! But in all seriousness: If I cook an hour a day and he cleans an hour a day, isn’t that pretty fair?

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    1. Your rant about bathrooms has me laughing because it is so familiar. I don't think it is coincidence that neither you nor my wife have scrubbed a toilet since taking up the hairbrush. You also confirm my belief, previously expounded here, that when a wife is empowered to manage domestic affairs with hairbrush in hand, there will almost inevitably be a redistribution of housework in her favour.

      Incidentally, I became aware of the eternal struggle between the masculine and the feminine around bathrooms as a child. I grew up in a family with one brother and four sisters, so my brother and I were held to account whenever my mother or my sisters were grossed out by a sticky toilet seat. I seem to recall that my brother and I both got spanked on occasion for that offence, much to the satisfaction of our sisters...and our embarrassment.
      DJ

      In answer to your question, I do think the division of household labour you impose on Andy by the power of the hairbrush is quite fair. Like you, my wife is also fair and practical. When I was still working, she gave me a list of chores, and that list included everything she didn't want to do herself, but I think she was consciously trying to be somewhat fair. And now that I am retired and she is still working part time, I think she feels it is fair that I should do practically all the housework.

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    2. Sorry but I don't get the bathroom obsession or the conclusion that it's only men who mess up bathrooms.
      I know women certainly don't like to clean bathrooms....which is why you will never see a female sanitary engineer or sewer worker.
      Toilets are one area where women have no interest in equality in the workplace and prefer men to take care of this messy chore for them.
      As for not permitting him to use the master bathroom and telling him how he should go to the toilet....we'll that is just bizarre!
      It's time Helen started pulling her weight with the bathroom chores and letting Andy pee the way he wants!

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    3. Hmm. I think every person I've ever seen clean the bathrooms in a hotel I've stayed in has been a woman. Along with the people who clean out the bathrooms in our office building. In fact, other than in the gym locker room, I can't think of any instance where the person cleaning the toilets isn't a woman.

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    4. Dan, for that comment you should start cleaning the toilets in your home. You can bet your wife will appreciate it!

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    5. Oh, I already do! Though, my larger point was that it is wrong to claim women DON"T clean toilets, since at least in public facilities most of those cleaning them seem to be women.

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    6. As someone who worked both in professional housekeeping and in retail, I can say with utmost confidence and without the slightest exaggeration that at least when it comes to PUBLIC restrooms, the Women's restrooms are always far worse than the men's. I've never been able to figure out why this is, but it is..... and I am not the only person to notice this. You just have to talk to anyone who has had to deal with both and ask them candidly which gender's bathrooms are the worst.

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    7. Women's public restrooms are horrible, partly because so many women are afraid to sit on the seat so they hover above it and pee everywhere. However, I was speaking of bathrooms in private homes, where it is males who pee on the toilet and floor and leave the seat up.

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    8. Helen: see? Both genders are really just the victims of circumstance and design flaw. Women have inadequate conditions to make public restroom use easy, and men have the opposite problem. Just think of how much cleaner private bathrooms would be if in addition to the commode, homes were also equipped with urinals.....which are ergonomically suited to male urination.

      I don't think women are aware that when a man urinates in a standing position, especially to a bowl lower than their knees, predictable stream direction is like an 80% thing, with occasional "why the hell am I peeing in that direction?" departures. Some guys, like myself, are also prone to what is called "twinning of jet"......which makes it impossible to predict direction.

      Personally I just find it easier to sit to pee......and consequently the commode stays nice and clean. But I am definitely a minority in this, and even I don't sit all of the time. Still, just cleaning up after oneself is all it takes to keep a bathroom tidy.

      (What a weird side-issue this has turned into. LOL)

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    9. Yes, I was thinking the same thing -- the introduction of a Disciplinary Wife to the blog has somehow become a weird, off-point and, frankly, gross digression on peeing styles.

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    10. Hahaha. True that Dan...

      Having said that, making him sit down to pee (at home) is a good way to exert control. As I mentioned last week, body parts and bodily functions are very private, so anything done with regards to controlling them will make quite an impression.

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  11. On to a more serious question from DJ: “I find it interesting that you reject the label of FLR on the grounds that 1.you make major decisions together, and 2. in some areas he is the leader (protector, provider, spiritual leader). I use the label FLR to describe my marriage, but it is actually not unlike your arrangement …”

    Actually, though, it is quite different, because DJ goes on to say that his wife is “the ultimate authority” when they do not come to consensus. To me that makes their marriage FLR. But I am NOT the ultimate authority when it comes to the areas where Andy is the family leader: as Provider, Protector, and Spiritual Leader. This is based on the scripture: “For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church.” (Eph 5:23) I don’t see how an FLR couple would agree with that scripture. So, for instance, if Andy and I did not agree on which Catholic parish to attend, he has the ultimate authority to make that decision. However, Ephesians 5 goes on to say, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her.” So Andy’s leadership is expected to be sacrificial. We actually mentor young Catholic couples, and Andy explains to the husbands, “It is my job as the leader of the family to come to consensus with my wife on major decisions. And if we have not reached consensus, then I have not completed my job. And part of the process is for me to think to myself, ‘Am I being a sacrificial leader in this circumstance? Is it in the best interests of our family for me to sacrifice my personal desire in this case? Or is it in the best interests of our family for me to help my wife understand why my choice is best for our family?’”

    I will give you an example where Andy took the lead as Protector. As his earnings increased, we bought a home with a swimming pool. He was gone all day, so I was alone with our daughter. I wanted to use the pool during the day, but he believes that two strong swimmers should always be present in case something happens to one of them. This meant that our daughter and I could not go in the water together when he was at work. I thought this was protective overkill, but Andy put his foot down and eventually got me to agree. Our compromise: Our daughter could go in the water but I had to stay on the pool deck and watch her—and not swim with her. I STILL disagree with this rule, but I followed it because “Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.” (Eph. 5:22) To me, this example cannot be FLR. I manage most areas of our lives, and I spank HARD, but I submit to my husband’s leadership in the areas that are his God-given domain. And he submits in the areas that are mine. And we both agree that corporal punishment works to motivate him.

    I hope I was not too preachy! Keep the questions coming!

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    1. A few years ago, I came across a biblical-based analysis that assigns a lot more power to the wives, including basically ruling over the household in all non-religious matters. https://www.wivesbiblicalauthority.com/. Now, I think this analysis does ignore a lot of biblical statements putting women in a subordinate position, and some of the interpretations seem to stretch to make the desired point, but it's still an interesting read.

      Personally, religion doesn't enter into my views on DD and sexuality very much, even though I have a pretty strong religious background and spend a lot of time reading about both Christian history and philosophy but also other traditions including Buddhism and Tantra. To the extent I put my religious leanings into practice, it tends to be tied to what some people call Red Letter Christianity, which refers to the fact that many Bibles print Jesus' actual purported words in red. Hence, Red Letter Christians focus on what Jesus is actually purported to have said, not how it was later interpreted or applied by various church factions. They represent a bit of a schism right now from the mainstream evangelical community, because focusing on doing what Jesus actually said includes things like helping the poor not the rich, loving thy neighbor, being hospitable to the stranger in your land, caring for hte sick, practicing humility, and basically living the values summarized in the Sermon on the Mount, few of which are reflected in where things are politically right now.

      One of the reasons religion ends up playing a non-existent role in my approach to DD and FLR in my marriage is that Jesus himself had so little to say about sex, marriage and family life. Other than rejecting divorce, he says practically nothing about any of that, leaving me free to structure my approach to family in any way that works for us.

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    2. Helen, my wife and I both take Ephesians 5 seriously, just as you and Andy do, and are sincere Christians, as you clearly are -- but from a Protestant perspective (not that I see the distinction very important).

      My wife paddles me pretty hard twice a week because I really love to be spanked by her. She does so “because I love you,” as she puts it, but she cannot bring herself to spank me for discipline, though I, in line with Ephesians 5, would give her permission to do so if she were willing. She is not willing, and I fully accept that.

      Still, as a matter or reality, she is more dominate by nature and I am more submissive. This reality shows up in lots of ways in our marriage, even without disciplinary spankings. I appreciate the fact that she spanks me as she does, and this appreciation has resulted in making me a better more loving husband in tangible ways. Also, I am attempting to practice the command, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her.”

      I do have a question for you. When you are mentoring young Catholic couples (a very laudable practice in my opinion … my wife and I benefited from being mentored many years ago as a young Christian couple with children), do you ever discuss the spanking relationship you and Andy have?

      Doug

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    3. Like Tomy, I am not religious but I feel a very strong spiritual dimension in submitting to authority and accepting punishment. I really don't have a very good understanding of it but it is there. Maybe its about letting go, submitting to a higher authority and doing deserved penance. I don't know. But I suspect the growing interest in domestic discipline today correlates with the loss of religious fervor so many experience. Spirituality ( as opposed to organized religion) is part of every human being and to the extent religion fails to satisfy the spirituality need people will seek it elsewhere.

      Alan

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    4. Thanks for your reply to my question, Helen. I now understand why you reject the FLR label. Once again, however, I see some similarity between my arrangement with my wife and your arrangement with Andy, so maybe I need to rethink the label myself. Maybe it’s like a “constitutional FLR”. LOL. Like my wife, you rule the roost on the domestic front, but your power is circumscribed by limits set by your religious belief that husband and wife both have their proper domains of authority. My wife and I don’t think about it in religious terms, but we do have a similar unspoken understanding of domains of authority.

      The example of your husband putting his foot down on his rule about the swimming pool and you submitting to that rule was an excellent illustration of your point. I would probably have done like your husband in that circumstance, and I think my wife would have cede to my wishes when she saw that I was motivated by my duty to protect her and our children. I have a similar example. Last year I judged that we needed to get a new set of snow tires for our vehicle. As I do with any significant purchase, I informed her of my need to spend that money. She initially opposed the expenditure. Couldn’t we get by for another year with the old tires? I said I considered it to be too much of a risk, especially for her, since she might to have to drive to work during a snow storm. She accepted that.

      But how you would see the example I gave in my previous post, Helen? Suppose Andy wanted a bigger and better TV for watching football games, like the TV’s he friends had. (Or imagine he wanted to buy some other expensive luxury item). Since Andy does an excellent job as breadwinner, do you leave such “lifestyle” purchases to his discretion? Is that in his leadership domain? Or do you believe your role as “household manager” within the domestic sphere gives you the authority to veto purchases that don’t relate directly to Andy’s domain of leadership? My wife and I have a clear understanding about that. If I made a purchase like that without her permission, there is a good chance I would have to return it to the store, after answering to her hairbrush.

      I have one other question, Helen. You wrote, “[Andy] acted like such a naughty little boy that I wanted to treat him like one. And to me that meant spanking: I grew up with two younger brothers in a home where the mom was the disciplinarian, and they got the hairbrush over her knee fairly regularly.” Like Andy and like your brothers, I got spanked by my mother. But spanking was only one of the tools in her disciplinary tool kit. Other tools included being grounding us, sending us to bed early, assigning us extra chores, or revoking privileges (e.g. watching TV). Do you use any of those other methods of punishing Andy like “a naughty little boy,” or is spanking the only method of punishment you and he have agreed upon?
      DJ

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    5. DJ,
      Yes, we do use other punishments. I often include corner time with a hairbrushing: sometimes before, sometimes after, and sometimes during, depending on when I want him to reflect on his misbehavior. For other consequences, I like for the punishment to fit the crime. If he has missed a chore, I often assign an extra one in addition to a spanking. For foul language he may get a mouth-soaping along with his red bottom. And if his chores are not done on time each Saturday, he has to beg off the plans he made with his guy friends ... and tell them why! I also have sent him to bed early (with a red bottom) when I was so aggravated that I didn't want him in the room with me. And if he has been rude to any female, he must apologize; I recently made him make a special apology phone call to a medical facility which had called because our credit card we were using to pay a bill had expired. She called and wanted identifying information before getting into the billing issue--and he got very snippy, saying that since she had placed the phone call that he should not have to provide identification. After I paddled him very hard, he called and told her (as instructed) that his wife insisted that he apologize and that he had been "taken to task" for his rudeness. She kind of chuckled in a knowing manner, and he blushed deeply. All four cheeks were red!

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    6. In regards to the TV, Andy would never think of making such an expensive expenditure without my permission. Since a TV has nothing to do with providing or protecting or special leadership, and everything to do with the maintenance of the household, then it is within my purview. He would get an extremely hard spanking and have to take the TV back--and tell them the reason he was returning it if asked. And he would watch no TV for a month!

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    7. Dan, thanks for the reference to www.wivesbiblicalauthority.com. It actually is quite an interesting read, supporting many of the conclusions that Andy and I came to on our own. Andy is corresponding with the author--who gets paddled by his wife for misbehavior!

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  12. I tend to steer a pretty wide berth from religious matters (although I am deep into spirituality). But I really appreciated reading the perspectives of the contributors who found a way to integrate the DWC lifestyle into their religious philosophies. Thanks for the edification.

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  13. And by the way, I find filthy bathrooms disgusting too and even without someone to inspect them I intend to keep up respectable standards.

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  14. Welcome Nancy

    So nice to hear the voice of a wife. I especially enjoyed the toilet tales. Peter and I have two sons so
    toilet seats up or down always an issue here. I do have my own bathroom where the toilet if for my use
    only. One of the first chores I assigned the boys was cleaning their toilet.

    As to discipline for Peter, for a long time I tried to keep the erotic element etc out of my disciplining him.
    I do not any longer. I am not a Domme, I see myself as a wife trying to remind my partner that this is
    a 50/50 marriage. We never have sex after a discipline session.Often, either in tears or near tears he
    will kneel with his head in my lap and i will dry his tears. From time to time have applied creme to his
    bruised bottom. Not long ago Peter said as he knelt on the floor with his head in my lap, that those
    moments he feels closer to me than at any other time.
    Discipline has centered our marriage. I am married to a man, I dont want someone that I control.
    I want him to be a shining example to my boys, showing them his respect for me is something that
    a real man displays to women.
    Thanks again
    Anna

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  15. Helen, thank you for taking the time to post such a well written narrative. Your professional writing skills are evident and much appreciated. I particularly enjoyed reading how you transformed that first "fun" birthday spanking into a disciplinary spanking, and then continuing until you gained his agreement that he would be spanked for future misbehaviors as well.

    >But as I whacked his bare bottom I started to feel drunk (and turned on) from the >power he was relinquishing to me

    Even though I had fantasized about being a disciplined husband for years and had even written several anonymous short stories for the spanking Usenet group of the day, I never had the courage to actually ask my wife for a disciplinary lifestyle. But, finally one evening over too much wine, we swapped sexual fantasies, and I included being spanked as one of mine. To my Great Surprise, she immediately responded with something like "oh, hell yeah" and quickly fetched a ping pong paddle. That first spanking started out playful, but ended with some stingers. And the next one the following morning "for leaving the seat up" was decidedly harder and had me squirming before she was done. After that, I introduced her to the DWC site, and was soon receiving regular "real" hairbrush paddlings that left me in tears. Part of what I found interesting in this beginning, as she confided her early thoughts to me at a later time, was that as soon as I mentioned being spanked, she found that the idea appealed to her, and that when the spanking began, she quickly discovered that she really enjoyed my submission and the sense of power that she experienced. I would never have guessed as she seemed so plain vanilla, but I have heard this experience repeated by you and many other disciplinary wives on various forums through the years. I do believe that there are a great many women who would feel just the same if their husbands had the courage to ask for it, and the wives were willing to at least give it a try.

    I also appreciated your comments regarding FLR. My wife and I have a typical modern day partnership marriage, where each of us contributes according to our ability. I am better at money and finance so I take care of the bills and investments. She is much better at managing our schedules, times, and social life. And, while the kids are grown now, she was much better with them also. In general, she is better at handling our household/lifestyle management, including disciplinary measures as needed.

    Like others have posted, we are both more "spiritual than religious", although we belong to and raised the kids in a theologically liberal church, as we believed it was the right thing to do. What Alan wrote above about disciplinary submission relating to spirituality (as one submits to a Higher Power) is a thought that has always resonated with me.

    Thanks again for a very interesting introduction! -al

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  16. DJ,
    Yes, we do use other punishments. I often include corner time with a hairbrushing: sometimes before, sometimes after, and sometimes during, depending on when I want him to reflect on his misbehavior. For other consequences, I like for the punishment to fit the crime. If he has missed a chore, I often assign an extra one in addition to a spanking. For foul language he may get a mouth-soaping along with his red bottom. And if his chores are not done on time each Saturday, he has to beg off the plans he made with his guy friends ... and tell them why! I also have sent him to bed early (with a red bottom) when I was so aggravated that I didn't want him in the room with me. And if he has been rude to any female, he must apologize; I recently made him make a special apology phone call to a medical facility which had called because our credit card we were using to pay a bill had expired. She called and wanted identifying information before getting into the billing issue--and he got very snippy, saying that since she had placed the phone call that he should not have to provide identification. After I paddled him very hard, he called and told her (as instructed) that his wife insisted that he apologize and that he had been "taken to task" for his rudeness. She kind of chuckled in a knowing manner, and he blushed deeply. All four cheeks were red!

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    1. Thanks for answering my questions about other punishments, Helen. I figured that anyone who uses the hairbrush as strictly as you do must use other means of punishment too. I'm glad my wife has thought of mouth soaping because swearing is one of the things that occasionally earns me a spanking.

      I have a follow question. You said that when you make Andy cancel plans with guy friends if he doesn't finish his chores on time you require him to tell them why. Do you allow him to say it's because he has some work to finish, making it sound like it's his choice, or does he have to tell them that his wife won't allow him to come out?

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    2. He tells them he didn't get his Saturday chores done on time, and the implication is pretty clear that I am holding him to our agreed-upon standards!

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    3. Helen, I think it's cool that you require Andy to acknowledge to his male buddies, or to women if he has to apologize to them, that he is honoring your authority as his wife. That is undoubtedly humbling for Andy, and blush inducing because HE knows that your authority is backed up by your hairbrush, and he may have the feeling that people can extrapolate from the visible signs of your authority to the truly humbling part that isn't publicly visible. I know exactly how that feels!

      When I was still working, my wife had a rather humbling requirement that if colleagues asked me to join them for a beer after work on a Friday afternoon, I needed her permission. So I would have to say, "I'll call my wife and let you know." Sometimes, male colleagues would tease me a bit about "needing the wife's permission" and female colleagues might smile and say something like, "Aren't you a good husband?" That made me blush a bit in a way that excited me, to be honest. But it really wasn't a big deal. I would say something like, "Well, you know the saying, 'Happy wife, happy life," and guys would generally agree. Besides, I think consulting my wife is just common courtesy. She would generally give me permission to go, but I couldn't take that for granted.
      DJ

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    4. I have heard the expression in such situations, "he's either pussy whipped or the perfect gentleman." I would add, "or very well spanked"!

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  17. Doug asked: "When you are mentoring young Catholic couples (a very laudable practice in my opinion … my wife and I benefited from being mentored many years ago as a young Christian couple with children), do you ever discuss the spanking relationship you and Andy have?"
    Absolutely not. I do not feel that would be appropriate. We do discuss the domains where the husband and the wife should have authority. And we discuss how to come to consensus. But the Bible does not speak to the issue of corporal punishment between consenting adults, so we would not speak to it either--unless directly asked (which has yet to happen). Then Andy and I would have to talk about what we might be willing to share.

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  18. First off, a big “Thank You” to Helen for so openly sharing her story! Hopefully it will inspire others to do so as well. I especially liked the way that she determined whether her husband was interested in spanking by cleverly using the occasion of her birthday. Also, she says she was “drunk (turned on)” with the power he was relinquishing to her. I have a feeling that this is often the case for wives when they start to do this, though many may be more reluctant to admit it. It is certainly true with my wife!

    The more I read and the longer I participate in this forum, one thing that is increasingly clear to me is that DD and FLR encompass a very broad spectrum, with lines that are blurry at best and generally different from person to person. For me, DD is when one partner disciplines the other partner for violating certain pre-agreed (by both parties) rules or principles. He or she is basically just the enforcer of a written or unwritten contract between them. Obviously DD can be either direction, or even mutual, such as in the Spencer plan. FLR isn't quite as easy to define, but I simply view it as being where the female is the primary decision maker for the couple. It may or may not include DD as part of it, so it isn't necessarily kinky since it may just be the opposite of a more traditional relationship in the past, where the guy generally made most all the major decisions.

    And then the messiness starts... Most relationships don't fit so nicely within any labels. Helen's example was quite interesting because he has authority for many things, making it seem more like a DD relationship, yet on the other hand she seemingly gives him all the tasks she doesn't want and makes him bear a heavier workload around the house, even though she works several hours less per day, and then on top of it doesn't let him use the bathroom in the master bedroom. This all goes well beyond what I would consider FLR and is more in the mistress/slave dynamic.

    Anyway, it just goes to show that every relationship is different. The ideal is when couples find what works for both of them. My relationship is mostly DD. We are in every way equal partners and we make all major decisions mutually. Obviously we both have things we are better at, and so we tend to be more “in charge” of those things, but in the end we operate as a team which is better than either of us individually. However, similar to what DJ indicated is the case for them, there are elements of FLR for us. She sets the expectations, she makes the rules, and she can punish me anytime, for anything, and in any way and to whatever degree she wishes, which sounds much more FLR'ish.

    -ZM

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  19. Thanks to Helen for such an interesting insight. Interesting that ZM feels that Helen is talking more about a mistress/slave dynamic than an FLR relationship because she gives him the tasks she doesn't like doing. I don't see it that way. Mistress gives me the tasks she hates doing including cleaning the bathroom/toilet, doing all the cooking and washing the dishes. I don't see this as slavery, more an opportunity to do something that gives her some free time to indulge in something she'd rather do. As ZM says it's about Mistress setting the expectations, making the rules. I think once you are in an FLR you willingly accept these conditions.

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    1. This probably illustrates better than anything that some disputes come down to semantics. You object to ZM's use of the "Mistress/slave" label, but you call your wife Mistress, and you seem to be saying you do whatever she tells you to do. So, if that doesn't fit the Mistress/slave model, what does?

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    2. Andy is a servant leader, and nothing like a slave. He agrees that the home is my domain, and that his role in the home is to be my servant. As a servant, he does what he is told or suffers the consequences. Best of all, he truly enjoys it because we have sexualized chores. He used to do the dishes once a week and resent it. Now he does the dishes every night with no resentment. Why? Because he is wearing my panties as he does them. Because I walk behind him and tap him on the bottom and tell him that if he keeps doing a good job he's going to get some tonight. Because I frequently grab his man parts and gently squeeze them and tell him how much I appreciate all the tasks that he is completing. Being a disciplinary couple can be a lot of fun, and he will tell you that he gets way more sexual attention then any of his vanilla friends. There is no better way to get a man to do a task then to sexualize it!

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    3. "Sexualized chores ...?" Talk about "a carrot and a stick!" This comes across as a very attractive DD version from the "servant leaders" standpoint! And also for his disciplinary wife.
      Doug

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    4. I think you are right Helen, there is definitely no better way to get a man to do a task then to sexualize it! I do not wear panties while doing domestic chores, but in warm weather I often wear just a pair of briefs, and like you, my partner sometimes walks behind me and slaps my bottom.
      As I have said in previous comments, we are not in a domestic disciplinary relationship, she spanks me mainly for erotic reasons. Your comment suggests that there is a strong erotic element in your DD. I guess this is usually the case in DD relationships?
      richard

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    5. Hi Helen,
      I hope I didn't offend you too much with the mistress/slave thing. I guess as far as words go "servant" is quite different than "slave" because of the implicit consensuality, though in BDSM usage, I expect the words end up largely meaning the same thing since even those who are "slaves" are that by choice. By the way, as a Christian I very much relate to the servant leader model. If only more people in the world would adopt that style!

      I love the idea of sexualizing tasks, which makes even the most monotonous tasks exciting! As Richard says, there is often a strong erotic element in DD. For me, DD is very unique in that the idea is so very erotic and exciting even as the punishments themselves are so very unpleasant. DD is where erotic meets daily life and actually helps get things done and effects change!

      Regarding doing unequal amounts of housework, each couple needs to decide what works for them. In days long past, it was much easier to define roles and responsibilities, and everybody worked (usually very, very hard) just to get things done. In today's world, individual situations vary much more than in the past, so the proper balance is different for every couple and every situation. To me, the idea that has always seemed the most fair is to try to equalize the amount of leisure time as much as possible. Each partner may have different workloads, things they have to do with kids, and other important activities. The remaining things, such as household chores, would be divided between them to level things as much as possible, so that each would have roughly the same amount of leisure time after completing their responsibilities.


      -ZM

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    6. Helen, I can’t tell you how wonderful to hear a woman speak with such a depth of understanding about men like Andy…and me. I see myself in Andy, and see my wife in you (though you sound stricter than my wife).

      When it comes to the division of domestic labour, my wife no longer makes any pretense that it should be “fair.” I do almost all of it, and if I don’t do it to my wife’s exacting standards, I answer to her hairbrush. But, on a deeper level, it is fair because our arrangement is a win-win situation for exactly the reason you explained: I enjoy doing housework now because it has “become sexualized.”

      Now, when I say “enjoy”, I don’t mean that I like washing dishes or scrubbing the floors or cleaning the toilet any more than I used to do when I used to argue with my wife about how those chores should be divided between us. It’s still drudgery on one level, but I am highly motivated because I am sexually aroused by that drudgery now that I am required by my wife to do it. The sexual arousal, an arousal focused entirely on my wife, is the part I enjoy. It’s a bit like being spanked. I don’t like the sensation of a hard spanking. Punishment hurts. But it arouses me to answer to my wife that way. And the reason my domestic service is a win-win is that my wife knows that her “unfairness” only increases my arousal, so why shouldn’t she enjoy the privilege of liberating herself from those chores?

      I find it interesting that you and my wife and Richard’s wife have all arrived at a common gesture: the proprietary pat on the bum while we are busy at our chores. That always makes me blush and glow with pleasure. Those pats on the bum remind me of her disciplinary power, at the same time communicating her love. There’s also the gender reversal aspect we discussed previously, making me feel like a 1950’s housewife, especially when I am wearing an apron.

      And, as for you and Andy, this arrangement has greatly energized our sex life. I often say that my I have a more exciting sex life than a man my age has a right to expect. Incidentally, setting aside the issues of DD and FLR, I have read that studies show the biggest thing husbands in vanilla marriages can do to improve their lives in the bedroom is to take on a greater portion of the housework.
      DJ

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  20. Helen, Andy is very lucky indeed. The fact that his mother spanked him and he felt secure and lloved but appropriately cautious about angering her did it seems set the stage for your relationship. In my case my family was chaotic and my punishments were as much an outgrowth of my parent’s frustrations in their own lives as loving direction for me. In fact I most often felt that the punishments were unjust, and never clearly explained just anger that felt abusive . When at 20 I had a series of heated arguments with my new wife’s family I was shocked and confused when my mother in law confronted me when we were alone. I know now that she waited until she was sure I wouldn’t be embarrassed with a public dressing down . She calmly explained that I was poorly behaved and that in her family rude and disrespectful behavior were not tolerated . I knew she was right and initiay I thought about arguing. But something about her time and posture made me listen. She said there was a price to be paid for offending her and her family in their home. Then she said she was going to give me a spanking I wouldn’t forget . I was shocked , I don’t know why.but I listened carefully to her scolding and instructions . Having never had a ritualized punishment , mine had been outbursts of anger and violence , I was a combination of scared and curious. The strapping hurt like hell, absolutely no erotic component just painful. Days later when my wife asked some questions we began our 59 years of living domestic discipline. My wife like the way I treated her mom. She was right I never have forgotten, I feel loved and the DD has been a big part of our lives even at this age .

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    1. Alas, I never had the domestic discipline conversation with my mother-in-law before she passed away. Even Andy wishes that the three of us had sat down and talked about it at some point. Mothers in law are an interesting species, and I wish I had the courage to have been more open with her.

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    2. Hi Helen,
      That's a conversation I would have liked to had too. I often wonder if my mom didn't expect me to be under the disciplinary control of my future wife, subject to her boundaries and consequences just as at home. Why else would a mother spank late if she didn't expect it to go on throughout adulthood.My mother died before my wife came into my life , so neither of them talked about it either.Have you or Andy any thoughts about that?
      Thanks
      Alan

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    3. Decades ago it was really hard to talk about such things, but my mother-in-law made several comments to Andy about his behavior which were spanking threats ... and I now think she was trying to let me know that I should be spanking her son. Once she said to him, "You're never too old to be seen to." I didn't understand what that meant at the time but later learned that a "seeing-to" is an old British expression for being punished. Did she think when she was spanking him at 14 that she was raising him to be spanked by his wife? I really have no idea.

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    4. Somehow, I don't think things would be much easier re: discussions with a MIL, all these decades later. But, maybe that's just me and my inability to imagine my own mother having such a conversation.

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    5. It is a common motif in F/m spanking stories that husbands' mothers symbolically or literally pass the hairbrush to their daughters-in-law. A variant motif is that the tradition of wives disciplining husbands runs in families, so the hairbrush is passed from mother to daughter down through the generations. Is there any truth to these stories, or are they the fantasies of guys with spanking kinks? Who knows? I would never say that something NEVER happens.

      On the topic of "difficult discussions", I had a surprising discussion with my 90 year-old mother. She had read an article about the harmful effects of spanking on children, and she said to me, "You kids were spanked, and it didn't affect any of you, did it?" When I hesitated before answering, she said, "What? Do think it harmed you?" I said I wasn't sure it harmed me, but... And then I spilled it all: my lifelong spanking fantasies, my submissiveness towards women, the fact that my wife and I now had an FLR and that my wife spanked me." My mother thought about it, then she said, "Well, you and D appear to be very happy. You are happy, aren't you?" I said that I was. To that she answered, "So, I guess there wasn't any real harm." I had to admit she was right.
      DJ

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    6. Great that you had the courage to discuss it with your mother! I have discussed domestic discipline with a few girlfriends over the years--including those on both sides of the brush. I have never heard a real story of a mother-in-law (or mother) passing the hairbrush to a daughter. I think that is mostly fantasy of the story writers. I do know that some daughters were aware that their fathers were spanked by their mothers (even though the parents tried to keep it a secret) and followed that role modeling in their own marriages. But the wife and the mother-in-law (or mother) spanking the husband together is mostly fiction, I believe ...

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    7. There was a woman who used to post on her from time to time, Holly, whose mother disciplined her father. When she got married, she initially rejected spanking, as she thought her mother was a little too prone to spanking. But, her mother continued to push her to incorporate it into her own marriage. Finally, she got tired of her husband's temper tantrums, and one day he made the mistake of calling her a bitch. So, she took up the strap herself.

      My wife has been very resistant to the idea of our kids ever knowing about this part of our relationship, though I personally think that they are so close that it eventually is going to come out. Also, I don't operate from the assumption that they don't already know. We've been doing this for well over a decade, and before they were teenagers lots of spankings happened while they were in bed. So, it is certainly possible they know all about it.

      And, they do kind of know about the FLR experimentation, or they see signs of it at least.

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    8. DJ, I agree with Helen -- it's great that you talked to your mother about it. I don't think I ever could, but one never knows. KD, btw, has a great story on his website about telling his own mother about his lifestyle: http://mattmansfigures.homestead.com/momssupport.html. I'm not engaging in idle flattery when I say I really do admire those of you who are "out" to one degree or another with friends and family. It displays a lot of courage and self-confidence.

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    9. Going beyond your description, DJ, of your conversation with your mother, I find myself speculating whether your 90 year-old mother knew, before she brought up the subject of childhood spanking, or at least suspected, that your wife spanks you. Whatever the case, you handled this conversation with your mother more courageously than most men would.
      Doug

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    10. Helen, I'm not sure it was courage that led me to discuss the DD nature of my marriage with my mother. I didn't plan to. But when she raised the issue of the effects of spanking on children and asked me a direct question about whether it had any effect on me, a detailed answer just poured out spontaneously. It was, however, kind of a relief to be able to reveal a hidden part of myself to my mother. I'm glad she took it in stride.

      On the way home from my mother's place that day, however, I was nervous how my wife would react when she found out I had told my mother. I felt that I owed it to her to tell her. Fortunately, she was more amused than angry. I asked her, "Aren't you embarrassed that my mother knows you spank me?" She replied, "Why would I be embarrassed? I'm not the one who gets spanked."

      I think, to be honest, my wife was rather pleased that my mother found out. At certain points in our marriage there has been a little bit of tension between my wife and me about the way my mother, and to some extent my sisters, put me on a pedestal as “the smart one of the family.” She has sometimes felt that my family value my opinion about things more than hers, and she is sensitive to that because she felt devalued vis-à-vis her brother when she was growing up. (As mentioned, she grew up in a very traditional, patriarchal environment that valued sons more than daughters). So I think she was actually tickled to know that my mother now knew that I answered to her hairbrush. I would add that, although my mother and my wife have always got along, their relationship has changed seen I outed our FLR. Previously, they got along in a way that was perhaps a little stiff and formal. My wife now seems more relaxed in her interactions with my mother, and there seems to be greater warmth between them. I suppose it may have increased my mother’s respect for my wife.

      A question occurs to me about your DD arrangement with Andy, Helen. Based on your narrative, I take it you have been spanking Andy since your daughter was a small child. Your daughter must have observed that Andy was the head of the household within his own sphere of authority as provider, protector, and spiritual head. But she must also have observed that you were the boss within the sphere of household management. You mentioned that you have talked to women who were aware while they were growing up that their mothers spanked their fathers, even though their parents tried to keep that a secret from the kids. Do you suppose your daughter would have been aware how things stood between you and Andy as regards DD? I mean, from what you have written, it sounds like you run a very tight ship. It would have been difficult to hide that dynamic, I suspect.

      DJ

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    11. Dan, I agree with you that we have to entertain the possibility that our children know way more about the DD aspect of our lives than we think they do. Kids are smart and curious.

      Anonymous, whether my mother raised the issue of spanking with me because she suspected something is a good question. As my wife has come to take her dominant status for granted, I think it may show in her way of interacting with me in front of family and friends, even when she is trying to be subtle. My mother would have observed that when we have family dinners at our house, I do all the tasks of a traditional apron-wearing “housewife.” And giving me little play spanks while I am working has become such a routine thing for my wife when we are alone that I think she sometimes does it reflexively when other people are around.

      Interestingly, when we have family gatherings at our place, the other males present seen to take their cue from me. Thus, when I need a hand in the kitchen, either with the prep or the clean-up, my adult sons and my brother or nephew will join in, while the women seem to take their cue from my wife and let the men do the traditional women’s work.
      DJ

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    14. Sorry, had to rewrite, too many typos ...

      We raised our daughter to understand our values about the areas where the husband is to lead and the areas where the wife is to lead. She definitely saw that I was in charge on the domestic front and that we hoped she would do the same in her marriage. We did not teach her about domestic discipline, as that is not Biblically based and is a personal choice. And we tried to be careful to keep from her the knowledge that I spank Andy; when she was 10 we switched from the hairbrush to switches when our daughter was home because they are much quieter.

      However ... when she was 14 she was caught skipping school and smoking cigarettes. We grounder her for a month. She was very upset about not being able to see her friends after school, and one day after school when she and I were home alone, she said, "Why don't you just punish me the way you punish Dad?" I was shocked and said nothing ... and did not know what to do. Andy and I discussed it and decided that I would speak with her, as he was just too embarrassed. I told her that it was a very personal choice, that we had not taught her about it because it is not Biblically based, and that she would have to decide if she wanted to incorporate it in her marriage. She asked just one question: "Does Dad spank you too?" Then before I answered, she said, "I doubt it!" I told her he did not.

      She was very mature about the knowledge and never brought it up to her Dad, which relieved him considerably. The one thing that came out of it is that we switched back to the hairbrush, my preferred implement, and did not try as hard to hide what she might be hearing from our bedroom. We did not discuss it again until many years later, when she was an adult. But that is for another post!

      By the way, we did not changed the grounding punishment—and I never once spanked her. She never skipped school again or took up cigarettes, so something about the situation worked well!

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    15. It's so interesting to me what people find most embarrassing or difficult for their children or others to know. My wife is very resistant to the kids knowing about the spanking part of our relationship. But, I am finding out that she doesn't have nearly as much problem with them knowing about the more FLR-ish aspects, including non-spanking punishments. Something I didn't know until recently is that she has been much more open lately about certain things like "grounding" me. She apparently told them recently that I was grounded from having alcohol that week. Yet, she is adamant that she doesn't want them to know about the spanking. I rank the embarrassment between those two very differently. Kids know their parents have sex, and after Fifty Shades, I don't think there is much mystery left around spanking as kink. So, while like most kids they probably would be grossed out at the thought of their parents having sex, I doubt they would be much more grossed by spanking than sex in general. I always think that people, our kids included, would be more confused by the power exchange aspects of the relationship including a wife setting rules and enforcing them, and I would think it would be more threatening to the male ego than mere spanking. But, maybe all this is just how I think of it.

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    16. Being grounded from alcohol when you have drunk too much is good for your health and thus could be classified as a "loving consequence." It's more typical of what couples might do for each other, and I would say it is easier for children to understand. Spanking is not considered a loving consequence by society (though some of us might argue differently). For children, the concern is, "Why is Mommy hurting Dad?" If the children themselves are spanked, then maybe it's, "Why is Mommy treating Daddy like a child instead of like a Daddy?" Then you have the whole concern that the children might tell others, and that could result in severe consequences for the family. And I don't think it is appropriate for children to have to deal with their parents' "kinkiness" (and spanking is considered a kink, even if most of us would argue that it is so much more). There are too many issues with it to involve the children. So what does your wife give as her reasons for not wanting them to know? And why do you seem somewhat resistant to her arguments?

      When writing this, I thought of a good question for a future post: As a disciplinary couple with children, do you also spank them? Why or why not? My guess would be that disciplinary couples spank their children LESS because they consider it a consensual adult behavior.

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    17. Of all those, I do think that the prospect of children telling others and that having some negative impact is the most compelling reason to keep things confidential at least up to the teenage years. But, on the other hand, I think kids are less likely to think or talk about it at all if it's just what they've grown up with. But, balancing those out, I do think it's probably better to keep the spanking aspect confidential at least during the early years. But, I admit I have very mixed feelings about it.

      I agree that much (not all) of society now rejects spanking as a loving consequence, though I'm not sure kids EVER saw it that way. They get the "consequence" piece, but I'm not sure any kid ever has bought the whole "this hurts me more than it hurts you" line!

      She hasn't really clarified why she is, on a relative basis, less concerned about revealing the FLR aspects than the spanking aspects. My guess is a general aversion similar to the one you raise about discussing anything "kinky" (though our kids are older now, so it's not a matter of small kids dealing with topics they are not familiar with or old enough to understand). I wouldn't characterize it as me being resistant to her opinion but, rather, being less concerned about the fallout of going the other way. And, I think part of her concern is what they might think about me or fallout on me, not her. On that score, I do think we both need to be concerned about impact if people at work were to find out. With respect to the kids, however, I look at it this way (as I've said in at least one previous comment): I've worked incredibly hard to support my kids and my family, both economically and personally. I've made major comprises on where and how we live in order to prioritize their opportunities over my own. While working killer hours, I've attended way more soccer games and science fair than I've missed. I've raised them to be well balanced, secure, successful and emotionally stable people. If after doing all that they thought less of me because of a personal lifestyle choice that actually makes the marriage work better, then I have done something seriously wrong in raising them.

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    18. I also wonder how much kids really do think or care about how their parents interact, other than thinking that sex between them is gross. I'm reminded of a quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt, among others: “You wouldn’t worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do."

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    19. You have both raised interesting points, Helen and Dan. I agree with you, Dan, that a wife’s use of other forms of discipline can be more embarrassing than spanking. I think there is a growing awareness that “spanking play” is a fairly common sexual kink. Therefore, I think you are probably right that if adolescents discover that “mom spanks dad”, they are likely to see it in that light. (Younger children may be confused by it). I also agree with Helen that, because spanking is a sexual kink, it is probably a good thing for parents to be discrete about it, as they are about other aspects of their sex lives. Kids don’t need to know that mom spanks dad anymore than they need to know, for example,that mom likes to make dad perform unreciprocated oral sex after giving him a good hard spanking. I would also argue that even when the adult/adult spanking is truly disciplinary, it is also sexual. Helen’s narrative of her life with Andy demonstrates that.

      I don’t think the example you gave of being “grounded from drinking” is especially embarrassing, Dan, for the reason Helen gave. I don’t think you would need to be in an FLR or a DD relationship for a wife to demand that a husband cut back on his drinking. But I wouldn’t use the word “grounded” for that. In my mind, “grounding” means not being allowed to go out, and that is a punishment that adults use on young people in their charge. Thus, if children see that their mother has the authority to “ground” their father or to send him to bed early or to take away television privileges or to make him return something he bought without her "permission" to the store, those are clearer demonstrations of a real power imbalance than a spanking would be. That’s because adult/adult spanking is more clearly sexual in nature. Personally, I would argue that those other kind of punishments are just as sexual as spanking because they are manifestations of a dominant/submissive relationship, but they would be less likely to appear sexual to an outside observer.

      Finally, I want to touch on the excellent questions you asked, Helen: “As a disciplinary couple with children, do you also spank them? Why or why not? My guess would be that disciplinary couples spank their children LESS because they consider it a consensual adult behavior.”

      Yes, I agree with that 100 percent! Neither my wife nor I spanked our boys while they were growing up. There were two reasons for that. The first is that there is a considerable body of evidence from research showing that spanking children may be harmful, and even if you don’t believe it is harmful, there is evidence that other forms of discipline are more effective than corporal punishment. For example, when you grounded your daughter for smoking, Helen, that was probably more effective than spanking her. But the second reason is exactly what you said: spanking is “a consensual adult behavior.” Moreover, it is a sexual behavior among adults, whether the purpose is disciplinary or explicitly erotic.

      Now that I think about it, I’m going to add a third reason for not using corporal punishment on my children. Some of the corporal punishment I received from my father as a child crossed the line between discipline and abuse. I was not willing to use a form of punishment on my children where there is such a line that I might cross in a moment of anger. Corporal punishment between consenting adults is less problematic precisely because there is consent. I did not consent to some of the harsh punishments I received as a child, and I believe they scarred me emotionally to some extent. But that's another story.

      DJ

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    20. DJ and Helen, it isn't often that I decide not to raise a topic a commenter suggests, but I may do that here. Other than talking about how people's interest in this lifestyle originated, I've tried to steer clear of discussions regarding corporal punishment of children. It's just too touchy a subject for some people and is as likely to drive away commenters as attract them. I would say the jury is largely out on the long-term effects. I got interested in this a few months ago and did some actual digging into it. There are lots of studies that do suggest that there may be harmful long-term effects BUT most of those studies expressly define spanking to include the abuse and borderline abuse cases that you say affected you, DJ. When you expressly include instances of abuse in your surveys and sampling, that obviously skews the results and makes the studies flawed when it comes to the spankings that many/most of us older folks received growing up. I'm not saying there may not be longer-term effects, but I am saying that from what I've read, the data is far from clear. Also, what I haven't seen are studies on the deleterious effects of NOT spanking. We've only had a bit more than one generation of kids in the US that was raised largely without spanking, and I don't think many would hold out the overly-indulged millennials as an example of "well adjusted."

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    21. Here is the best summary I found on the weaknesses in the studies and in a 2016 "meta study" that tried to sum up the research in the area. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

      Two of the most problematic aspects of the research are (a) the studies generally don't control for abusive and non-abusive spankings and conflate spankings and all other bodily contact (hitting, slapping, etc.); and (b) they don't ask the "chicken and the egg" aspects of whether kids act out because they are spanked or are spanked because they act out. When that variable between the subjects is accounted for, the differences in the spanking and non-spanking groups became "trivial." Again, I'm not an expert in this area, but there seems to be a lot of differences between what the studies actually do sow and what they are characterized as showing.

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  21. Hi Helen,
    I was just reading the post where you describe other punishments you have used. You say you once sent him to bed early with a spanked bottom. By doing this you really were taking over the role of his mother. Did you only do it the one time or do often punish him in this way?
    richard

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    1. I adore my husband and love our evenings together, so it is very rare that I send him to bed early. Maybe once a decade! But I have wanted to comment about disciplinary wives being maternal. I believe that was the topic of a previous post, but I will comment here. I am very maternal with Andy, and when I am acting that way he is very boyish with me. And we both benefit from that dynamic. We also of course have a sexual husband-wife relationship. And because we are both turned on by the power exchange, the maternal disciplinary relationship can quickly transform into the sexual husband-wife relationship. Am I concerned about this? Not at all! Would Freud have a field day? I don't care! It's the dynamic that works for us, and we're not going to feel a bit guilty about it!

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    2. Helen, I don't think there is anything disturbingly Freudian about the maternal dimension of a wife disciplining a husband. I'm pretty sure that Andy's mother has nothing to do with his sexual relationship to you. I say that based on personal experience. I was spanked by my mother as a child. There was nothing sexual about that. It was punishment pure and simple. However, at a very early age (maybe 6), I developed erotic feelings about spanking and began to fantasize about spankings. Embarrassment seems to be the feeling I erotized in those fantasies. But in those fantasies there was always a female presence other than my mother. For example, what if my mother spanked me when my sisters had girlfriends in the house? What if that pretty girl who sat beside me at school saw how my mother spanked me? What if my teacher punished me the way my mother did right in front of the class, with all the girls watching and giggling? Or, most embarrassing and most exciting of all, what if some girl I found attractive had the power to punish me the way my mother did?

      Having been raised in an environment where maternal authority involved strict enforcement of standards of behavior by means of spanking and other punishments, mother/son discipline is the most obvious metaphor for my DD relationship with my wife, or Andy's relationship to you when you become the disciplinarian. In that power exchange, the wife retains her status as an adult, while the husband stripped of adult privileges and treated like a "naughty little boy." That is embarrassing! And because the woman treating me this way is NOT my mother, but my wife, the experience is intensely erotic. I bet it is the same way for Andy, and I don't see anything "Freudian" about that.

      DJ

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    3. “Or, most embarrassing and most exciting of all, what if some girl I found attractive had the power to punish me the way my mother did?” DJ, what you describe fits my experience as a young boy precisely. I was much too young to understand what “erotic “means, but I was not too young to experience painful non-erotic punishment spankings from my mother, nor too young to fantasize about erotic spankings from an attractive girl. With my wife, both women can be the same person. This makes perfectly good sense now. Doug

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    4. Well all guys supposedly have an Oedipal complex, meaning they want to kill their fathers and take his place by making love to and marrying their mothers. So instead they find and make love to a woman who ACTS like a mommy, Freud would say. Such garbage. What I love is that this big strong successful macho man willingly and gladly gives me all of his power when I want it, sharing with me his most vulnerable self and accepting intense punishment at my behest ... and then in the bedroom (and in public) turns back into that big strong successful macho man. (If you ever saw him in the bedroom you would not believe he submits to me!) And I am the only one to whom he voluntarily relinquishes control. So I must be powerful and special in his eyes. And I adore him for that!

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    5. Helen, I agree with you that the idea of the Oedipal complex, especially as applied in the popular imagination, is garbage. It is true that many men marry women who resemble their mothers in some way, and many women marry men that resemble their fathers. Does that mean that men and women are fulfilling an unconscious sexual desire for their mothers or fathers in their choice of spouses? No. There is a much simpler explanation. Mothers and fathers provide for their children models of femininity and masculinity, so it is totally unsurprising and innocent that men and women look for characteristics and behaviors modeled by their parents in selecting a spouse. You resemble Andy's mother in that you believe that men and boys should honor women and respect their domestic authority. And you reinforce that authority with a hairbrush the same way Andy's mother did when he was growing up. But it is precisely because you are his wife and not his mother that being disciplined "like a little boy" by you is erotically charged. In a day when so many marriages don't last, I don't think anyone can criticize anything about the arrangement you and Andy have, an arrangement that reinforces the love and devotion you feel for one another.
      DJ

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    6. I very much agree with your post, DJ. As you say: "The idea of the Oedipal complex, especially as applied in the popular imagination, is garbage." And: "It is precisely because you are his wife and not his mother that being disciplined "like a little boy" by you is erotically charged." Wanting your S.O. to take over the role of your mother is not the same as believing unconsciously that she really is your mother. You talk about marriages not lasting nowadays: I don't know if any statistics are available, but I suspect that marriages and relationships where the woman spanks her partner do tend to last.
      richard

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  22. Thanks for the prompt answer! It is much the same with my partner and me. She sometimes calls me "boy", although she is actually younger than me. That is funny about Freud having a field day. Some time ago I was talking to a woman I know, who is a psychologist by profession. She said most modern psychologists respect Freud as a great pioneer, but are very skeptical about many of his ideas. I would say, if you both enjoy it and it doesn't harm anyone else, just carry on doing it.
    richard

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  23. For me spanking is just sexual. We keep away from discipline and domination. I ask for spanking because I thoroughly enjoy it not because I have done anything wrong. My wife has said she is very comfortable with it so it has become an asset in our marriage. I know most say the wife should be spanked not the husband. However being a spankee does nothing whatsoever for her so what's the point?

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  24. Hi Dan

    This topic is way above but the energy of the discussion this week is making it hard to keep track.I do think mothers "passing down the brush" and other such tales are mostly fantasy ( not saying it never happens but probably very rare). But probably more common are women knowing or sensing Dad was subject to the brush and than these women later engaging in a subtle dance of dialogue and discussion about the what's and wheres of it.Some are just curious, others may went to bring it into their own relationship. Some like apparently Holly reject it initially but the change their mind. I know that both of the women I have had a serious disciplinary relationship with believed mother spanked dad although neither of them ever got any confirmation from mother herself. If you believe as I do that there is a gene that triggered leads to an interest in adult spanking it makes sense that spanking " runs" in some families. But the actual discovery that mommy spanked daddy is more likely to be something like finding a paddle or accidentally overhearing a spanking than direct verbal confirmation from either parent.I label this as my personal view and I could be wrong My former girlfriend figured it out because her mother would interrupt arguments to escort her father into the bedroom from which he would emerge 30 -40 minutes later red faced and much humbler.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. Yes, we've had a couple of weeks of pretty high energy discussions. Good to see!

      I suspect you're right that there is a distinction between "passing it down" and merely learning about it and that the former is less common than the latter. Though, I don't discount the possibility that it may happen more than we think. I think there is a point where many mother-daughter relationships become less parental and more like sisters or close friends. Once the girl is no longer a girl but a real woman, I can definitely envision many mothers opening up about it. But, I think the reality is still that these relationships are very, very seldom initiated by the women at all. So, to the extent anything is being "passed down," it's almost always (but with a few exceptions like Holly) the men doing it.

      It does seem like for a kid to connect the dots, they would need to do more than find a paddle. That would reveal that spankings were happening but wouldn't reveal who was using it on whom, and I'm not sure most kids would conclude it was being used for disciplinary purposes. My guess is most would think it was a dad-mom sex thing, get grossed out, and try not to think about it again. As for us, I have gotten more cavalier since become semi-empty nesters about leaving implements in places where they aren't exactly out in the open, but could be discovered.

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    2. You are probably right about paddles being ambiguous as to who is using it and why. But I found a large wooden paddle in my mom's drawer that was never used on me.( OK I was snooping but for cigarettes not a paddle) She was a single mom but had a very obedient and very polite boyfriend throughout my adolescence and was very controlling with him. It's hard to believe otherwise than that is was used on him although not when I was ever present.It was large and hard-wood whereas her go to instrument for me was a clothes brush Finding that brush is what makes me think she knew a lot about adult discipline. The fact that it was hidden makes me think she didn't want me to know about any of it. She always left the clothes brush out that she used on me.
      Alan

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    3. Very interesting. Your story about looking in mom's drawer is why I don't dismiss the possibility that my own kids have snooped and found an implement, or perhaps a paper journal I kept for a while.

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    4. An interesting comment Alan. I am sure you are right that stories of mothers explicity passing down the idea of F/M spanking to their daughters are mostly fantasies. However, I think the basic idea of female dominance is often passed down, not explicitly but unconsciously. As far as I am aware, my mother did not spank my father, but she definitely wore the pants in their marriage. As a result I unconsciously absorbed the idea that is it normal for the woman to take a dominant role. When I was about 20 I read a letter in Penthouse from a man who said that his wife kept him line with spankings. It seemed quite reasonable to me. I was used to the idea of the woman being in charge in a relationship. If she chose to enforce her authority by putting her partner across her knee from time to time, it was no big deal.
      richard

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    5. Hi richard,
      I agree completely that the atmospherics produced by female -in -control at home dynamics gets absorbed and given the direction of society is likely to produce many more in charge women in the future and probably more males subject to discipline.. When a male grows up in such a home it doesn't inevitably mean he is going to gravitate toward spanking. But it does mean he is likely to be comfortable with female control.
      Alan

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    6. Alan, this give me something more to ponder about why I may gravitate toward the power exchange aspect of DD. I did grow up in a home with a very strong-willed mother. But, my father was equally so. There was a constant clash as the irresistible force met the immovable object. Regardless of which of them was in control, it would have been better for all concerned if ONE of them had been. So, I think I saw and absorbed the example of a strong maternal figure, but also the chaos created by lack of a chain of command. That might explain a bit why the vision of my wife taking control and exercising that kind of maternal authority has always been the real emotional driver for me in DD, and not the spanking as an end in itself.

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  25. Hi Alan,
    Yes, it seems very likely that more males will be subject to discipline as gender roles change. I think this may be reflected in popular culture. In old movies and tv series there are sometimes M/F spanking scenes, reflecting the reality of the period in which they were made. The classic example is the film McClintock. F/M spanking is now beginning to appear in mainstream media, for example the Foot Locker commercial that shows a man identifying shoes by the impact he feels when his girlfriend spanks him with them. If this trend continues, I can imagine a typical scene from a movie or tv soap in a few years' time. A woman loses patience with her male partner who has been behaving egoistically, grabs him, pulls him across her knee and starts spanking him with her hairbrush. Her female friends, who are looking on, encourage her: "That's the way to deal with a boy, paddle him good and hard!"
    richard

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    1. I had not seen or heard about that Foot Locker commercial until now, and just looked it up on YouTube. That's awesome!

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