"Thoughts are the
shadows of our feelings — always darker, emptier and simpler.” -- Friedrich
Nietzsche
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples
Club. Our weekly gathering of men and
women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline or Wife Led
relationships.
We've had some really great
discussions back-to-back over the last few weeks. Thanks to Helen for sharing her story and her
thoughts with all of us.
My week began pretty boring,
but ended with a bang. Two bangs in
fact, one resulting from the fact that for one of the first times ever I
verbally asked for a spanking. I'll
share here what I wrote in a DD journal yesterday, as I was in the moment.
I'm writing this at the kitchen table, a few minutes
before I am going to walk upstairs and ask her to spank me. This is something I almost never do. How I came to it is a bit tortured, as my
bottom soon will be. I have really been
struggling with self-control issues on things like diet. I had pledged to do better this week, and I
did until Wednesday. Then we had a
birthday event at the office, which included a large cake. I have been trying to swear off of all sugar,
and at first I successfully resisted.
But, the cake was out on a table for for several hours after the event,
and I had to pass by it to get to the kitchen or restroom. Finally, I decided to have one piece. That somehow became -- four. Yes, four.
I was really disappointed in myself and intended to include it in my
weekly self-report. But, the next day, I
recalled one of Helen's recent comments about making sure that each offense was
addressed separately. So, I decided that
when I got home that night, I would tell my wife about it and with paddle in
hand, ask her to spank me right then.
But, that's not really how it worked out. Instead, as I was getting ready to go home, a
colleague asked me to join her and some other colleagues for happy hour. I hemmed and hawed, then eventually decided
to go for "a drink." I
actually behaved myself pretty well, surprisingly. But, when I got home my
determination to bring her the paddle and request a spanking had
evaporated. Then, I had a few more
drinks at home, and in in so doing broke another rule. When I got up this morning, she informed me
that I would be getting a spanking for the drinking. So, I have decided once again not to be easy
on myself, and I once again commit to bringing her a paddle and asking her to
use it on me, knowing that doing so will now almost certainly result in TWO
spankings on the same day. But, I
deserve this for two failures of self-control.
So, I am going to go ask her to spank me. This is so fucking hard. Somehow it seems much harder that when I'm
waiting for her to order me to get ready for one. I've been getting spanked for years, yet I'm
feeling really, really nervous about asking for this one. There is something different about being a
real participant in the process, and not just being on the receiving end. I have butterflies in my stomach, almost like
the very first few times she spanked me. Shit.
OK. I am going to walk up there
now.
And, I did. I explained to her that I had intended to ask
her to spank me yesterday, and I had already pointed out to her Helen's advice
about making sure each offense is addressed separately with a separate spanking.
So, she instantly agreed. But, she was in the middle of something, so
she made me sit and wait on the ottoman where I receive most of my spankings,
instructing me to think about what was about to happen to me. The spanking itself was not as hard as asking
for it. We had been talking about trying
OTK again, and we did. It did make me
feel a little more exposed and vulnerable, and I was acutely aware of the feel
of my cock against her thighs. She did say that the OTK position did make it
hard for her to generate a swing as powerful as she usually wants. But, it was not an ineffective spanking by
any means. I am writing this paragraph
sitting on a moderately sore bottom, anticipating my second spanking of the
day, which she confirmed I will be getting later tonight.
I'm writing the remainder of
this after spanking #2. It was much
harder, and at one point I got pretty close to letting go into real tears, but
still not quite there. As ZM observed, I
think the real missing piece is duration.
I think I could cross that threshold if it just went on and on, without
long pauses to switch positions or implements.
The nerves I felt in screwing
up the courage to ask her to spank me brings us to this week's topic, which was
suggested to me by Helen. She asked,
"What, specifically, are the feelings that the male and female both get
from the power exchange in Domestic Discipline? Not the tangible benefits such
as improved behavior, chores completed without complaint, etc., etc. Focus on
the feelings."
I will kick it off. There is a significant difference between my
feelings now versus when we first started.
We have been doing this so long, I usually don't get nearly as anxious
as I did in the early days. These days,
what I feel as I am getting ready to be spanked is a mix of resignation and
modest nervousness about what is to come.
The posture of the men in these drawings seems to capture a bit of that
nervous anticipation, and the resignation that comes from knowing it really is
going to happen. (The wives' "all business" demeanor is also pretty close to my own wife's approach during our sessions.)
That is very different from
the early days. The men in these drawings seem a lot more subdued than I felt internally when we took our first steps into this kind of relationship. I still have very vivid
memories of the time period (about a week) between discovering the Disciplinary Wives Club
website and getting my first disciplinary spanking. It really did hit me like a
sledgehammer. I had trouble sleeping, as
it was all I could think about. The
butterflies in my stomach were so powerful, I felt nauseous. Yet, I had an erection that seemed to last
for days. I distinctly remember how nervous I felt taking the concept to her, and I felt a little of that yesterday when I asked her to spank me. After she agreed to give DD a try, I recall walking
around a mall trying to find a wooden hairbrush that was suitable for my first
spanking, my stomach doing somersaults and my cock hard as steel. It was the strangest mix of genuine terror
and perverse excitement, and it lasted for days and days. I really was terrified about bending over to
take that first spanking. I don't think it was the fear of the pain in and of
itself. I actually have an abnormally
high tolerance for pain. No, it was the
prospect of embarrassing myself by crying.
That didn't happen in reality, but it did in most of the stories I had
been reading compulsively on the DWC website, so I thought it was pretty
likely. Now, close to 15 years later, I
still haven't cried, and I think that is because I am still so petrified of
letting go like that and I can't quite give up the control that a thorough power
exchange would entail.
Regarding how I feel as a
result of the power exchange our current experimentation with having a Wife Led
marriage, it also has competing emotional elements. I am turned on by the thought of her really
taking over. And, just like I craved that first spanking but was terrified of
it, I crave her becoming a really strict wife and exercising an almost maternal
authority over me. Yet, giving up
control like that still unnerves me.
And, in the moment, when she is actually ordering me to to do menial
tasks around the house, or from time to time grounding me, I do resent it in
that moment even though I've specifically asked for it and know it ultimately
is for my own good. But, there wouldn't
be any real value in obeying authority if it were easy, would there?
Helen also wanted to address erotic feelings specifically, and I can say that there is little that turns me on more than thinking about my wife becoming stronger and more powerful. While we haven't really taken things very far in a D/s direction in the bedroom, she is taking charge more and more in bed and is becoming more physically aggressive, which I absolutely love. I continue to believe that I am not really a "spanko" at heart, in that it is not really the spanking per se that turns me on so much. It is her exercising authority and getting more and more comfortable wielding power.
How about you? What feelings do spankings and the power exchange aspects of your DD or Wife Led marriage elicit in you? And, please, as hard as it is for us guys to even identify our emotions sometimes let alone talk about them, let's try to take Helen's suggestion and talk about the actual feelings involved, not the goals or benefits.
Have a great week!
Helen also wanted to address erotic feelings specifically, and I can say that there is little that turns me on more than thinking about my wife becoming stronger and more powerful. While we haven't really taken things very far in a D/s direction in the bedroom, she is taking charge more and more in bed and is becoming more physically aggressive, which I absolutely love. I continue to believe that I am not really a "spanko" at heart, in that it is not really the spanking per se that turns me on so much. It is her exercising authority and getting more and more comfortable wielding power.
How about you? What feelings do spankings and the power exchange aspects of your DD or Wife Led marriage elicit in you? And, please, as hard as it is for us guys to even identify our emotions sometimes let alone talk about them, let's try to take Helen's suggestion and talk about the actual feelings involved, not the goals or benefits.
Have a great week!
Four???!!!
ReplyDeleteShame on you!!!
LOL
DeleteBelieve me, I know. Sugar addiction seems to be high among my many weaknesses.
ReplyDeleteMe too, and I am on a low carb diet right now, so it is an even bigger no-no! I remember some months back (before the diet), I was driving and opened a bag of gummy bears. A little while later, they were gone, yet I wasn't really that conscious of eating them. It was then that I understood your explanation for alcohol where you can end up drinking much more than you plan without necessarily doing it on purpose.
Delete-ZM
Same here regarding low carbs, though my focus is a little more on eating natural -- no refined sugar or processed foods. It's just hard as hell, and I've learned it is another one of those things where I have to have zero tolerance with myself, because one slip leads to . . . four.
Delete@ZM: Try eating sugar free gummy bears, and you will no longer be able to eat gummy bears again. LOL
Delete@Merry Contrary. Hahahaha, true that, since I will be largely confined to the bathroom for the next day or so. One of the funniest things I have ever read was the reviews on Amazon for haribo sugar-free gummy bears.
Delete-ZM
@ZM: It's ALL TRUE!!!
DeleteFeeling Feelings,Nothing more than feelings Trying to forget my feelings of love Teardrops ... Dan you sure know how to get a man down asking to express feelings. The worst words I can hear my wife say, isn't your going to get spanked, but it's we need to talk:) I would say it's anticipation, excitement, fear, humiliation, had the same feeling when I requested my first spanking, but you get use to it. To continue after spanking over sexually excited, calmness, regret, grateful to have a wife who spanks me, peace, harmony and submissiveness.
ReplyDeleteJohn
John,
DeleteI'm right with you my wife lets me know by telling me "We need to have a little DISCUSSION" a nd my stomach starts to get butterflies.
Also my post spanking feelings are very similar to yours especially gratefulness to have a wife who loves me enough to spank me
Dan
ReplyDeleteI am so proud of you! For the first time I am seeing the boy who needs to be taken to tears. You are near to it I can tell. Peter has never looked more of a man as when he said Thank you after a discipline session. His arousal over my knee of course let me know how much it meant to him.
Anna
Thanks, Anna! We'll have to see how things develop. I've gotten close a time or two before, so we'll see if this continues or sputters out.
DeleteBecoming almost a running theme of my comments but in my relationship I am not the one struggling with feelings or letting go... In terms of crying and letting it all out I do fancy a theroputic outcome to a long spanking but experience tells me (from the 3 visits to disciplinarians I have made in the last few years) it is unlikely with Mrs GL, not impossible but unlikely. Cheers GLM
ReplyDeleteI usually don't move comments up from one week to the next, but Helen left a comment today on last week's post, about her daughter knowing that Helen spanks Andy. My reply also has some bearing on the topic of feelings about the power exchange in these relationships. It was:
ReplyDeleteIt's so interesting to me what people find most embarrassing or difficult for their children or others to know. My wife is very resistant to the kids knowing about the spanking part of our relationship. But, I am finding out that she doesn't have nearly as much problem with them knowing about the more FLR-ish aspects, including non-spanking punishments. Something I didn't know until recently is that she has been much more open lately about certain things like "grounding" me. She apparently told them recently that I was grounded from having alcohol that week. Yet, she is adamant that she doesn't want them to know about the spanking. I rank the embarrassment between those two very differently. Kids know their parents have sex, and after Fifty Shades, I don't think there is much mystery left around spanking as kink. So, while like most kids they probably would be grossed out at the thought of their parents having sex, I doubt they would be much more grossed by spanking than sex in general. I always think that people, our kids included, would be more confused by the power exchange aspects of the relationship including a wife setting rules and enforcing them, and I would think it would be more threatening to the male ego than mere spanking. But, maybe all this is just how I think of it.
Power has naturally passed from me to my wife over the 50+ years of our marriage in numerous ways. She is more dominant by nature than I am. But when I first suggested a disciplinary relationship to her (after our children had left the nest), she not only refused, but she literally was shaking as we discussed it – an intense fear reaction. We had already discussed that I had a spanking fetish going back to my childhood, which surprised her but which she accepted, and that I found the mere thought of being spanked by her intensely desirable for reasons that could neither be explained nor denied. So we agreed that she would spank me erotically, to please me, but not for discipline, to accommodate her strong resistance to that kind of power exchange.
ReplyDeletePresently, I am spanked by her twice a week and these spankings genuinely hurt, as I want them to. She uses a long-handled 3/8 inch thick wooden paddle I made for her.
So, to address this week’s question, all I can do is to say how I think I would feel were we in a spanking-enforced disciplinary relationship: I believe that I would genuinely welcome it, that I would offer her little resistance, but I would probably find some aspects of it hard to cope with. In short, I love my wife, I know she loves me, and I could completely trust her with the power of the paddle.
Doug
Thanks, Doug, That is an odd one. She is fine with spanking you, and giving you one that actually hurts. But, the power exchange leaves her shaking. Not the physical act of spanking, which is OK with her if erotic but not OK if disciplinary, even if both are done with the same force. but the power exchange involved in calling one of those equal spankings “disciplinary” leaves her shaking. I admit I don’t understand that, but we humans are complicated creatures, and she is giving you what she can right now,.
DeleteA DD relationship would require her, on occasion, to treat me as a child who is spanked on her initiative when he does not behave. The change of relationship from having a husband to having a "naughty child" requiring a spanking is what bothers her much more than the physical act of spanking me. She certainly does not want a power exchange, and the mere act of spanking me does not equate to a power exchange, especially if I want her to spank me. Doug
DeleteHi John here, I do love it when my wife decides to treat me like a child, and enjoys listening to my cries of pain as she smacks my 'botty' , a word she likes to use, as she thinks it further reduces me to one! She likes to spank my bare 'botty' first, then sends me into her study for her long rattan cane! The child in me rather tends to disappear at that point when the cane makes contact with my bare flesh as I bend over for my caning. Sharp strokes follow and I soo crying out in pain whilst she counts the cuts out loud until she reaches 18 strokes! By this time the cuts have reduced me to ears and felling like a child again! HJ
DeleteDoug, while that "naughty boy" dynamic obviously *can* happen, it doesn't necessarily have to. But, if she has a problem with the power exchange dynamic, then I guess that does rule out a lot of the DD interaction.
DeleteMy feelings around our disciplinary relationship have been very intense:
ReplyDelete1. Frustration: I started spanking Andy because I was so frustrated with his behavior. So while the main purpose was helping him be a better husband, I have to admit that a secondary purpose was taking out my anger on his hide.
2. Power: I had no idea how intoxicating it would be to have my husband voluntarily relinquish control and willingly go over my knee and accept punishment from me. As I have previously mentioned, having power over a powerful man is the biggest turn-on I have ever experienced. When I tell him that I am going to spank him, his physical reaction is obvious--he gets a partial erection. Mine is less obvious but just as physical (and I won't be any more graphic than that).
3. Intimacy: We are much closer since we became a disciplinary couple. There are no secrets between us. We have traveled together to the point of absolute vulnerability: I have seen Andy like nobody else has ever seen him. And that gift he has given me allows me to be vulnerable with him as well. I can cry in his arms and feel completely comfortable. I think most men are always holding back, holding their deepest emotions in reserve. Spanking him brings those emotions to the fore, and then I know I can share my deepest emotions with him as well.
4. Passion: A disciplinary relationship is incredibly intense for both parties. I believe our relationship is more passionate than any couple we know. Emotionally passionate, sexually passionate, spiritually passionate. Andy has said to me, "Your hairbrush has helped me become the husband, father, and man I always wanted to be. The sacrificial leader described in the Bible." And then he added, "Thank you, dear wife, for beating goodness into me!"
What more could a wife want than that? Disciplinary Wives forever!
Your hairbrush has helped me become the husband, father, and man I always wanted to be. The sacrificial leader described in the Bible." Helen, what a very strong compliment, for this should be the goal of every Christian husband.
DeleteI can relate to this somewhat. When I told my wife that I wanted to please her to express appreciation for spanking me regularly, she told me that she does not enjoy doing it, but does it because she loves me, and that I can reciprocate – love her back -- by being more helpful around the house. This is how she would feel loved in a tangible way. Well, we have discussed this in more detail, and the honest truth is that I am way more helpful around the house than I use to be, before consciously wanting to express my appreciation for her spanking me. So I can relate to Andy’s comment. My wife’s paddle has “helped me become the husband, father, and man that I [as a Christian] wanted to be, [in order to more closely be] the sacrificial leader described in the Bible.” Though I know that I fall far short of this lofty biblical command for a Christian husband. Doug
wow! its a big world out there..................
DeleteHello Dan,
ReplyDeleteThis is probably another great topic, though since I don't even understand my own feelings half the time, I can't imagine that I will be able to succinctly express them in words!
My feelings are very much a mixed bag, particularly because we do both what we refer to as #1 which is real punishment for real things with real feelings, and #2 which is just purely fantasy role play. My feelings for both regarding spanking and power exchange, mainly predicated upon time.
-During normal times, when nothing is happening in this regard, it is all very much on my mind and very desirable (both spanking/punishment and power exchange in any form, whether play or real).
-If I knew we were going to play something (a #2 roleplay), I would only look forward to all elements of it, both power exchange and spanking, even though both will likely be even more pronounced than in a punishment session.
-On the other hand, once it becomes clear that a punishment is on the way, my feelings become incredibly mixed.
-In the time leading up to it, if I know in advance as I generally do, I strangely anticipate it, maybe because I know it is needed. At the same time, I also definitely am filled with dread and at times even fear. Either way, it is very much on my mind
-Immediately before the punishment, I don't want it to happen. I feel awkward and embarrassed and generally feel bad about what caused the punishment.
-During a punishment, whether it be the spanking or the accompanying humiliations which further the power exchange, I very much feel like a little child, though the fact that it is my lovely wife punishing me like this somehow makes me feel even smaller. I just want it to end! Hopefully, but not always, during this time my feelings will transition from focusing on the punishment to focusing on the underlying reasons. This is where genuine contrition begins, and these feelings are by far the strongest in the whole process, and the only time that tears are possible.
-As soon as it ends, I feel both relieved that it ended and yet almost always very sad that it didn't go longer, because I know that it really needed to be longer to be truly effective. I also feel closer to her than at any other time.
-In the hours and days after the punishment, I continue to feel very close to her and feel so very loved. I would say these are the most calm and peaceful days I have experienced in my life. The world is just right.
While my feelings are very mixed, one thing that is clear to me is that my feelings are largely influenced by the underlying “realness” of the situation. If it is for play, I have no real feelings, and love everything about it, whether it be spanking, service, humiliation, or whatever. If it is real, then the emotions surrounding it are HUGELY amplified; I love and even crave the power exchange but I don't enjoy real punishment spankings themselves, and I dislike and even fear the feelings of guilt and shame but I love the freedom and closure that comes from releasing them.
-ZM
"As soon as it ends, I feel both relieved that it ended and yet almost always very sad that it didn't go longer, because I know that it really needed to be longer to be truly effective. I also feel closer to her than at any other time." Yes, this! I might not describe it as "very sad," but I would say that while I hate it as it is going on, I do feel weirdly disappointed if it ends before it has been really effective.
DeleteHi Dan
DeleteA contrarian view perhaps, but I believe "effective" is when the spanking motivates one to modify behavior -when next the opportunity arises for disobedience,violating an established rule, temper tantrums, etc.So in one sense no one knows if it was enough or not until there is a chance to misbehave again ( WHAT!- only two glasses of wine after the week I just had ...)But there are some early clues : if a punishment continues until my bum is numb , it was probably effective - and for the disciplinarian, my wife says when I quietly accept brush or strap without further struggle or ( her favorite) arch my bottom slightly toward the brush after each stroke she takes that as a sign the spanking worked. ( and no I can't fool her -she knows)
Alan
Hi Alan. “Effectiveness” surely is in the eye (or, more accurately, ass) of the beholder. I agree that a spanking was effective it brought about a behavioral change. On that score, the spankings that are most effective may actually be those that PRECEDE bad behavior. I do think the times I have thought the most consciously about not misbehaving have been when I was already sore from a previous one, whether a previous punishment spanking or the rare occasion on which she has given me a “preventive” spanking before some social event. But, I think an punishment is also “effective” if it results in the spankee feeling that he was held truly accountable in a way in which the punishment fit the crime. It is on those occasions when I feel like I was let off easy that the “disappointment,” for lack of a better word, is likely to set in.
DeleteHello Dan and Alan,
DeleteYou are certainly right, Alan, about actual effectiveness being measured by change in behavior. As Dan said, I was more thinking about feeling truly held to account and adequately punished. The goal of this all is (at least to a certain degree) improved behavior, but also a stronger relationship with better communication.
Much like speeding tickets, spankings don't necessarily make me perfect, they just help keep me from getting too far out of line and remind me that absolute boundaries exist and that crossing them brings consequences.
Anyway, if at the end she feels like she has been able to clearly communicate her feelings and if I feel truly chastised and have really heard her heart, that is what I consider "effective," and I am certain that it facilitates longer-term changes because of my love for her and my desire to improve.
-ZM
I can relate very much to ZM regarding his post spanking feelings I that
Delete-As soon as it ends, I feel both relieved that it ended and yet almost somewhat sad that it didn't go longer, because I know that it really needed to be longer to be truly effective. I also feel extremely close to her in that she loves me enough to deliver a no nonsense spanking to me
In the hours and days following the punishment, I continue to feel very close to her and so very loved. I would say these are the most calm and peaceful days I have experienced in my life. The world is just right.
I couldn't have said it any better!!!
"Much like speeding tickets, spankings don't necessarily make me perfect, they just help keep me from getting too far out of line and remind me that absolute boundaries exist and that crossing them brings consequences."
DeleteExactly
My partner always had dominant tendencies since childhood, but lived and married into a vanilla lifestyle. He passed away before we met, but she still was the vanilla schoolteacher in the neighborhood. We met and I told her about my previous wife and the DD marriage we had. She listened and understood. We she asked me to move in, the topic came up again and she agreed to give it a try, saying, being a parent and school teacher, I know how to spank. This background is for the purpose of showing how quickly she picked up on the power exchange of a Dominant woman over a submissive man in a 24/7 relationship. A brief mention of asking for a spanking, I have done it only a few times during our more than 10 year relationship. She is very good about knowing when I have earned a spanking and excellent about delivering them effectively. My feelings while going over the lap or assuming a compromised position are of shame and guilt. During the actual spanking the feelings drift to agreeing I deserve this and knowledge I have displeased her. Following the spanking, during the reflection period, the feelings are about improving my behavior and the thankfulness that I have a Dominant life partner who cares enough to administer the necessary punishments which result in the betterment of both of us.
ReplyDelete"Being a parent and school teacher, I know how to spank." My, how the world has changed!
ReplyDeleteHelen says that having power over a man is a big turn-on for her. This seems to be a very common feeling among women who spank their partner. I wonder if any other women visitors to the blog would care to comment? It certainly seems to be the case with my girlfriend. Our relationship is not really DD or FLR (at least not so far), it is basically erotic spanking. However, if I do something that she doesn't like when we are out, she often gives me a few firm swats on my bottom to show her disapproval. I have noticed that she usually does this when there are other women around. I suspect it is a way of showing them that she has power over me.
ReplyDeleterichard
I very seldom swat Andy in public, but there is one situation where I have several times: When he is sneaking glances at other women. I will give him a crisp smack on his behind, and I have realized there are three reasons for doing so: I am telling him to stop staring; I am telling him what he is going to get when we get home; and I am telling HER, "This handsome guy belongs to ME!"
DeleteMy wife sometimes gives me warning swats in public places. Usually it is for being argumentative or showing bad attitude, e.g. swearing or being impatient. Sometimes if I am argumentative, she will say to me in a low voice, "Do I have to take your pants down and spank you right here? Don't think I won't do it." I know she wouldn't do it because we would both get arrested if she did that in public. But does the erotic jolt of that threat delivered in a public place together with a warning swat ever snap me into a state of blushful submissive compliance!
DeleteDJ
HI DJ and Dan
DeleteI am taking the opportunity of mentioning threats to bring up a subject not covered as far as I remember : what part do threats play in your DD relationship? It seems to me that credible threats even public ones can sometimes deescalate the situation ( as here) and allow both partners to avoid the spanking. Obviously sometimes even a serious threat isn't going to stop that train rolling down the road and wife or girlfriend will need to act.But as I think back over the years and the ratio of threats that stoppled me cold is probably at least 2 :1 over spankings I actually received. And if I remember correctly the threats have become even more effective as time goes by. Part of this is that I know she will absolutely follow through on a threat especially " do you need to have your pants taken down"? But part of it is simply that the threat of a spanking calms me down. So, just wanted to underscore how important threats delivered at the right time can be. I expect most disciplinary wives have found that out already.
Alan
Threats of punishment can be very effective ... as long as the threats have been carried out numerous times so the husband knows they are real. Idle threats are useless and even counterproductive because the husband gets the idea that the wife won't really follow through. This can lead to resentment, since deep down the disciplined husband WANTS and NEEDS to be guided by his wife.
DeleteWhen I threaten, I don't mention spanking out loud, as Richard suggests I should. You spankos always want more, LOL! But to me, that would be crossing the line and imposing my lifestyle on innocent strangers. My threats are mostly nonverbal: raised eyebrow, shake of the head, finger pointing. If I need to say something out loud, it will be a little bit subtle, such as, "Andy, do we need to have a talk?" Of course anyone into spanking knows exactly what that means.
One time we were at a party and he had had a little too much to drink and was not getting the nonverbal signals at all. I said out loud, "Andy, go check my bag to see if my hairbrush is in it." The people around us looked at me a little oddly, as I was perfectly coiffed at the time. He meekly went and checked my bag--we both knew full well that my travel brush was in there. I noticed some confusion and embarrassment on his part; he wasn't sure whether he should bring the brush to me or just report that it was there! A couple people were watching him, while others had turned back to their conversations. He returned empty-handed and said in a low voice, "Yes, Dear, your hairbrush is in your bag."
"Good!" I said loudly. "Nice to know you have your hairbrush just in case you need it!"
I would assume a lady giving a guy a swat on the butt would not really raise most eyebrows too much, at least in many situations. Most people would probably take it as completely playful and wouldn't think any more of it. Certainly they wouldn't assume there was any sort of power thing going on.
DeleteThreats are a great topic, Alan! I always appreciate your insights! I can honestly say that my wife has never used threats at all, but I am sure they could be used to good effect. I agree with Helen that it is important that if she does make threats, they must not be hollow threats. They need to be "if this continues" then "that" (whatever that might be) WILL happen.
On a somewhat related note, since we are talking about feelings this week, one thing that my wife already does a little, but could do much more of is to use the time leading up to the punishment to build it up in my mind. At least for us, punishments seldom occur immediately after infractions because of logistics. Since so many of the feelings and emotions of punishments naturally occur during the time leading up to a punishment, she could really amplify those feelings by reminding me in different ways what is to come and to set the stage. I.e. "let's sit and have coffee, since you will not be wanting to sit for quite some time" or "I'm sure you feel sorry, but I need to see tears streaming down your cheeks and hear sobbing before I can move on." By setting the stage this way, she might help prepare both of us, and it might become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
-ZM
Hi Helen,
DeleteYour description of the incident at the party is very funny! Was there any reaction from the other guests when you said "Nice to know you have your hairbrush just in case you need it!"
My girlfriend mentioned spanking once in public, although it was not exactly a threat. We were going somewhere by train and on the platform we had been talking about spanking. When the train arrived it was quite crowded, but we managed to find two adjacent seats. Before I sat down she slapped my bottom and said that our conversation had turned her on, adding "When we get home I'm going to put you across my knee and spank your bare bottom!" I carefully avoided eye contact with the passengers sitting in the neighboring seats, at least some of them must have overheard her.
richard
Helen, I strongly agree with this statement:
Delete“Threats of punishment can be very effective ... as long as the threats have been carried out numerous times so the husband knows they are real. Idle threats are useless and even counterproductive because the husband gets the idea that the wife won't really follow through. This can lead to resentment, since deep down the disciplined husband WANTS and NEEDS to be guided by his wife.”
My wife makes effective and extensive use of warning threats of the type:
-- “Do I need to take your pants down?”
-- “Keep it up and you’ll see what happens.”
-- “The kitchen better be spotless when I get home or you won’t be sitting comfortably at supper tonight.”
My wife rarely has to follow through on threats like this because I take the warnings seriously.
Then there are threats that a line has already been crossed and a spanking is forthcoming, like this:
-- “Just wait till we get home, mister.”
-- “Okay, that’s it. You just earned yourself a spanking when we’re alone.”
On occasions when my wife has failed to follow through on that kind of threat, I can attest to Helen’s observation that it can lead to resentment. I think that for my wife, saying that I am in for a spanking is not a big deal, and when other things claim her attention after she has made such a threat, she can easily forget about it. For me, however, an impending spanking IS a big deal. I am in a state of suspense until it happens, and if it never happens, I can start to feel (stupidly, I know) that I am not important to her. When that happens, I am tempted to remind her that she said she was going to spank me, but I never do because I feel that would be disrespectful. I tell myself, “If she wants to spank me, she will. If she doesn’t, she won’t. I just have to accept that. She’s the boss.” But it isn’t easy!
I love your story of telling Andy to check whether your hairbrush was in your purse at the party, Helen. I can imagine the butterflies Andy must have had in his stomach when you did that. I see that as a totally other kind of threat: teasing your husband with the threat of publicly outing him as a man who answers to his wife’s hairbrush. You came perilously close to doing that—so close that any couples into to DD would have understood. Whether or not you would actually out him, teasing him that you have the power to embarrass him that way heightens the DD power exchange. I once asked my wife if she would be embarrassed if family and friends found out she spanks me. She laughed and said, “No, why would I be embarrassed? You’re the one who gets spanked.” There is a tremendous implied power imbalance in that statement.
DJ
While my wife and I have progressed a long way over the last few years we are still working on "Threats and or pronouncements of an impending punishment. We are presently working on some type of public acknowledgement or threat (which I find to be a turn on) and Helen's examples of a raised eyebrow, shake of the head, and especially finger pointing would be wonderful yet private warnings of what is to come when we get home. The idea of her actually saying something aloud along the lines of Helen's admonishments to Andy would be fabulous subtle, such as, "do we need to have a talk?" or "wait till we get home!" are GREAT public warnings and hopefully the next step for us to cross
DeleteAs a writer, artist, cartoonist, and human being, I've never fit the stereotype of much of anything......let alone the one of "guys don't share feelings". As such, not only do I have no problem discussing them, but find that their complexity is an attractive aspect of the DD lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteWe are open so for me the feelings revolving around a DD punishment can be quite varied and also be very different depending on the circumstances, my mood, and Rosa's mood. It's why I blog about the topic.....so I can discuss particular punishments in depth and show how they can be similar and different.
Put more succinctly, a typical set of feelings can be a sort of sense of deserving combined with an OCD sort of 'OK let's check this off the list'. Another is a sense of relief that a punishment is gong to happen so that my guilt can be addressed along with perhaps a general need for a grounding of sorts. yet another is the kind where I don't agree with the punishment. Then I feel A bit of resentment, and depending on how serious it is, either a bemused acceptance or defiance with incredulity.
Now, factor in what the punishment is for, who was wronged, who came up with the punishment, who is around when it happens, or after it happens, and my feelings can become even more varied.
Afterwards, I can feel very differently at different times as well, from submissively contrite and "mushy", to playful, to just glad it's over. Sometimes I'll feel a little turned on by it all, but not very often. However, that does seem to be different for Rosa who is often turned on even by a serious punishment......as long as it is not TOO serious.
I get “mush” and also “glad it’s over.”. Not as sure about “playful” . . .
DeleteThat one depends a lot on where the punishment originated. If it's a slip from Ana, let's say, and Rosa herself is not the one upset with me, she'll execute the slip firmly, but she tends to end up more playful about it. That attitude can carry over to me, depending on how I feel about what happened. Or even if the punishment is from Rosa but for something minor, the punishment can blur the line between serious and play. Sometimes Rosa will use a 'real' issue, though a minor one, as a sort of "excuse" to spank for her own gratification. That too can make me feel more 'playful' about the whole thing. Like I said, because we are a blend of D/s and DD, there are shades of intensity that vary with each situation.
DeleteDan
ReplyDeleteAs I stood naked, nose to the wall Friday night waiting for Anna to return, I realized that as much as I dreaded the bruises she would leave on my ass, there was this dark part of me that created a stirring in my cock. The more I tried to put the erotic feelings aside the harder my cock got. As I heard her park the car in the driveway and then walk up the stairs to our bedroom, instead of losing the erection well by the time she walked into the room I had a raging erection.
She removed her dress and ordered me to lay across her lap. No mention of my erection. As I approached
her side I saw the Brush in her hand. As I tried to get across her knees, she reached down and touched my hardness.
" Tuck that between my legs and lets see how quickly I can make the pardon disappear!"
There was a mocking tone as I tried to get adjusted and even after the first ten swats, that were not any
lightweight, it remained rigid. At about 40 swats into the spanking she ordered me to stand. I did.
" Since this doesnt seem to be working , lets try this."
With that she jerked my cock off and I confess I came very quickly. She wiped her hand on my ass and then
told me to resume position. This time my cock was like a boys . She then proceeded to give me the rest of
the 100 swats which is usual. Each time the brush hit my ass I let out a cry.By the time it hit 90 I was in tears. Not gentle sobs, no all out crying and begging for it to stop.When it finally stopped she told me to go
get tha creme to apply to my bruises. I laid on my stomach, as her hands gently applied the creme.
I was so confused. Hurting and this nagging stirring in my genitals that scared me. Anna noticed hugged
me and whispered in my ear as I cuddled in her arms.
" I wont tell anyone how hard you came after getting pain. Now go to sleep !"
I am sending this to you Dan, after Anna has read it and has given me her approval.
peter
Hi Peter,
DeleteBeing spanked after ejaculation is another morbid curiosity of mine; it is something that I both hope to experience someday, and at the same time sincerely hope I never experience! I have heard it hurts much worse, or at least is a lot harder to take without all the sexual energy flowing through you.
-ZM
ZM
DeleteI hope you understand but there is a part of me that feels conflicted. There is a part of me that
thinks or hopes or whatever that it happens again!
Peter
Peter and ZM, this is something we have not done, and while I understand part of the “morbid curiosity” that ZM professes, I get how much this one would hurt without that sexual energy flowing. So, while I think there is some chance she will take it there as Anna did, absolutely no way will I suggest that one.
DeletePeter, thanks for sharing this!
I would say there are two levels of feelings: my feelings about the fact that I am a spanked husband in a wife led marriage, and my feelings about actual spankings.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that my wife spanks me and otherwise controls and disciplines suffuses our entire relationship with erotic energy. Every morning when I make the bed, I place my wife’s hairbrush on her pillow as a visual symbol of her authority over me. That daily ritual has turned her hairbrush into a bit of a fetish for me. I can get aroused looking at it or touching it. I like that she is invested in the ritual too. If I ever forget to put the hairbrush on her pillow, she calls me to task.
In our daily lives, threats of spankings are more common than spankings. Strangely, although the idea of being spanked is intensely erotic, I try hard, out of respect for her authority, not to earn spankings. If she makes a direct threat to spank me to command obedience, I am scrupulously obedient, but the idea that I have to be obedient because of her hairbrush arouses me.
Because I try hard to be good, she rarely spanks me in real anger. Usually spankings result from several small annoyances, generally concerning my mood or my attitude that suddenly reach a tipping point. I guess it usually happens when she doesn’t like the way I respond to a scolding. Maybe I’m argumentative or I make excuses. Then she will say, “You know what? I think you should go the bedroom and wait for me with your pants down.”
That always embarrasses and shames me because the message is that she has suddenly ceased to regard me as an adult to be reasoned with and sees me a naughty boy in need of correction.
I go to the bedroom. Her hairbrush is already on the pillow. I take two more items out of the closet, a wooden paddle and a heavy leather strap, and place them on the bed next to the hairbrush as required. She likes to have choice. Then I pull down my pants and bend over the end of the bed with a folded pillow under my hips so my exposed bottom is nice and high.
In that vulnerable, exposed position, my feelings of shame and embarrassment grow. Sometimes she comes after a couple of minutes, but she may let me wait up to half an hour, letting those feelings build. The shame is the result of the knowledge that I deserve to be spanked. The embarrassment is because she has the power to do it. Those feelings arouse me and I sometimes get a partial erection. If this was a fantasy, I would be fully aroused, but the reality of my shame inhibits full arousal.
When I hear her coming down the hall, I have butterflies in my stomach. When she comes in, she seems to know how embarrassed I feel, and she may push that button by teasing me, “My, don’t you look cute with your little bum bum ready to be spanked?” I feel really shy in her presence at that moment. I am a naughty little boy with a bare bum, and she is a smartly dressed, fully adult woman. To my embarrassment is added a feeling of awe at her power and beauty.
Often she makes me explain why I need to be spanked. I find that difficult because it intensifies my shame. She may add other reasons to the ones I shyly articulate.
The spankings she finally gives me may seem anticlimactic because they are usually short, unlike the long hard spankings I fantasize about. But even in this she expresses her power because she has made it clear that she will spank me the way she sees fit, and I have no say in it. The truly humbling thing is that is has a knack of spanking me just to the point that I want her to stop, but I feel a little ashamed that she can take me so easily to that point.
My feelings continue to evolve after the spanking and generally culminate in a letter to my wife the next day expressing my regret for displeasing her, my promise to try to do better, and my feelings of gratitude and devotion to her. It always turns into an erotic love letter because I become fully aroused in the writing.
DJ
Great description of your feelings, DJ! As I read through this, I realize you captured a lot of the feelings I too experience.
Delete-ZM
Thanks, ZM. I guess it makes sense that we would have similar feelings about the desires we share.
DeleteI want to add to my above post because something Helen wrote to me under last week’s topic gave me an insight into my feelings. Helen wrote:
Delete“I am not surprised that your fantasies now include what you feared most then: for your punishment to be witnessed by the opposite sex. Fear is an adrenaline rush; so is arousal. I think the mind can deal with the fear by sexualizing it ... turning emotional pain into physical pleasure, with adrenaline being the common thread ...”
Helen’s observation gave me an insight into something I wrote in my previous post. I described my feelings while waiting bent over the edge of the bed with my pants down as embarrassed and ashamed. And I wrote that I had butterflies in my stomach as my wife approached, and that I felt “shy”. Why would I feel “shy” with my wife who has seen me naked many times over 35 years of marriage?
I realize now that ritual of preparing myself to be spanked transports me back in time. As I wait for my wife to come to spank me, I become the shy, sensitive 14-year-old boy who so feared humiliation. When I hear my wife’s footsteps coming down the hall, I get butterflies in my stomach because she is not just my wife. She is, on one level, the embodiment of maternal discipline. She is also the embodiment of all the female witnesses to my humiliation that have haunted my erotic imagination. So as she approaches, the butterflies arise from the feeling, “Oh my God, she’s going to see me like this!”
When she enters the room, I am embarrassed the way I would have been at the age of 14 if a girl I had a crush on saw me this way. And shy. I feel really shy when she makes me explain why I need to be spanked because the power imbalance is so absolute.
That feeling of shyness towards my wife continues beyond the spanking. When she tells me to stand up and pull up my pants, I blush as she watches me do it. When she asks me if I’m going to “be a good boy now” I answer shyly that I will. That feeling of shyness continues as we go back to our daily routine. I want to please her now. I feel a bit like a boy who, having been spanked by his mother, wants to be good for her, to win back her love. I also feel a bit like a shy adolescent in the presence of the prettiest and popular girl in the class.
When I write the letter thanking my wife for loving me enough to discipline me, it always turns into an impassioned, erotic love letter. This is an essential part of the ritual. I leave the letter for her under her hairbrush on her pillow. That feeling of shyness increases when she goes into the bedroom and I know she is reading the letter. I feel shy because I am even more naked in that letter than I was during my spanking. I feel really vulnerable. What is she thinking as she reads it?
When she emerges from room, smiles at me, and says “Thank you for the lovely letter,” everything changes. I am no longer 14 years old. I have been fully reinstated as her adult husband, a husband who is suddenly very horny for his wife. The whole drama has aroused me on a deep level, but it now comes to the surface. She knows and appreciates how much she arouses me. She knows she can make use of that arousal in the bedroom right away, or she can keep it on tap until she’s fully in the mood.
Helen mentioned that when she spanks Andy, the spanking is often followed by passionate love making. I realize that, in my case, it is always followed by passionate love making. It may follow that day, the next day, or in a week. But whatever the interval between the spanking and the love making, they are not separate events; they are two acts in the same drama. And I feel like the luckiest man in the world to be able to make love to my wife like a man after having been spanked by her like a shy little boy.
DJ
Beautifully written, DJ, and truly enlightening. You reveal deep truths that are seldom communicated by the disciplined husband ...
DeleteThank you, Helen. This discussion has been enlightening for me too. Thank you for your big part in that. If it's not too nosey of me, I have a couple of further questions for you.
DeleteI believe that in your narrative last week about how you came to spank Andy, you said he was "sobbing" at the end of his first encounter with your new hairbrush. Is that correct? And do you usually spank him until he cries?
The way you have described Andy, he is a strong, powerful alpha male, one would not easily be driven to tears. So I'm wondering, are you able to spank him to tears because your spankings are really harsh, or do you think he is able to surrender to tears because when he is over your knee he travels back in time and becomes the boy who presumably used to cry over his mother's knee?
DJ
DJ,
DeleteWow. Just wow! You nailed it... This is so much of what I feel, and does such a good job of explaining the "shyness" that I always feel at the time of a punishment.
"I realize now that ritual of preparing myself to be spanked transports me back in time. As I wait for my wife to come to spank me, I become the shy, sensitive 14-year-old boy who so feared humiliation. When I hear my wife’s footsteps coming down the hall, I get butterflies in my stomach because she is not just my wife. She is, on one level, the embodiment of maternal discipline. She is also the embodiment of all the female witnesses to my humiliation that have haunted my erotic imagination. So as she approaches, the butterflies arise from the feeling, 'Oh my God, she’s going to see me like this!'"
-ZM
Andy always gets an erection before a spanking, and we almost always have sex afterwards. So it is clear to me that I have to make sure that the spanking itself is not at all enjoyable--that it is true punishment. Thus I spank very hard and always with implements. I sometimes will stand him up during the spanking and make sure the erection is gone. I need to go way beyond what he feels is enjoyable--and we both agree that I should do so. I spank until there is no more wriggling, no more begging for it to stop, no more pushing his bottom up for the next smack, no more apologizing and promising to be good (which I insist on during the beginning of the spanking). I spank until he is sobbing quietly and accepting what he knows he deserves. To answer your question directly: Sometimes there are actual tears with the sobbing, and sometimes it is quiet moans without tears that to me sound almost the same as sobs. To me it is not important that he is "spanked to tears." It is important that he is "spanked to true contrition." And spanked beyond his kink, so that in that moment he can barely remember that he is a spanko who craves this. No, he is a very sorry husband who has been seriously punished by his loving disciplinary wife.
DeleteAfter I have stopped spanking him, he will often lie across my knees for many minutes. I may tap his bottom lightly with the brush, in a loving manner. I may caress his thighs. I may rub Arnica gel on his bruises. I may stroke his hair. I may kiss the top of his head. I make sure he knows that he is loved by his Disciplinary Wife. As he begins to come around, he feels love first, and then arousal. I will feel his erection resuming against my thighs.
I have decided I trust you all enough to get graphic. I almost always wear a skirt when I spank him. I often will remove my panties beforehand. Typically one of two things happen when I finally roll him off my lap. Either he will go up under my skirt to service me orally. Or we will make love. (Or both.) Often I will get up without a word, turn around, flip up my skirt, bend over, and present MY bottom to HIM, and he will "take" me from behind. We both love that. And he really knows what he is doing sexually. I think we are the happiest Disciplinary Couple in the world!
Helen, I think you and Andy may really be the happiest disciplinary couple in the world! That was a mind blowingly erotic post, and I imagine every guy here is jealous of Andy. I am! To be honest, however, I'm not sure I would be able to take the kind of spankings you give Andy.
DeleteI probably don't need to tell you this, Helen, but for a spanked husband to be able to service his wife orally right after a punishment is incredibly rewarding...emotionally and sensually. What better way to express one's love and devotion and gratitude than pleasuring her that way, with one's consciousness immersed in the wonderful scent and taste of her! Offering your husband the opportunity to take you from behind must be incredible for him too, being promoted to such an alpha position after his punishment and repentance. Such a rapid ascent from the depths of submission to sexual dominance must be almost dizzying for Andy.
I do have one more question, and I hope it won't seem impertinent. I would imagine sex in those circumstances would be really intense, so I wonder whether regular vanilla sex, without the punishment, would seem a bit lacking once you have experienced that?
DJ
Regular vanilla sex? What's that? LOL
DeleteAs you are aware by now, DJ, Andy and I are very much into power exchange, and most of our sexual interactions include some level of power exchange. For instance, we will play "blindfold": Tonight he wears a blindfold in bed and has no idea what I'm going to do to him; tomorrow I wear the blindfold. We play a similar game we call "headboard." We have a metal headboard in an intricate design, with lots of places for handholds: One night he will lie on his back and grab the headboard--and is not allowed to let go. The next night I grab the headboard. We also play "permission": One night I can't cum without his permission; the next night he needs my permission. The variations are endless. And we make up games on the spot.
We also do our version of "tease and denial" that we call "please and denial"--because edging truly is intensely pleasurable. When done right, it's so much more than a tease. I love to fondle his anatomy, doing so absently while reading, watching TV, or having a glass of wine (which I might "accidentally" spill on him and have to clean up ... somehow!). And Andy says that he gets far more endorphins running through his brain from a long please and denial session than he does from an orgasm. I also will initiate please and denial if there are some extra chores I need done. I will bring him to the brink two or three times and then say, "Go fix that squeaky door I've been complaining about, and then come back for more." Suddenly he's the best handyman in the world!
Do we ever just "make love"? Slow, sensual, intimate, honestly communing together. Yes, we do. No games, no power exchange. But somehow there is nothing that I do with Andy that seems vanilla to me!
A very nice comment, Helen! Grabbing the headboard and not being allowed to let go sounds like bondage but without ropes or cuffs. The please and denial game must be very useful for getting household chores done. You have given me some ideas to share with my girlfriend.
DeleteThanks a lot, richard.
DJ and ZM, I have not thought of what I feel before or after as "shy" exactly, but it does make sense to me.
DeleteI also do want to follow up on the maternal theme, but I need to think about a novel way to approach it, since we have done it before and not all that long ago. For myself, I do feel something maternal in the encounter, though it has been subtle in the past. It has been growing recently, though largely through consciously leaving myself more open to it. I think I resisted it for a long time, largely because I was not sure whether my wife really was open to it. As I have realized she is OK with it, it is easier to let myself really feel it.
We are a very new disciplinary couple, just in our first few weeks. So I would say that my primary feelings are excitement and confusion. My wife has suddenly gotten very strict about some things that never seemed to bother her before. But of course she says they did bother her and she just wasn't saying anything.
ReplyDeleteOur new relationship does not include spanking at this point. Instead, she is fining me as punishment. So for instance, every time I swear I owe her $5. I agree that I shouldn't be swearing, especially since we have small children. And I appreciate her taking control over my behavior.
But I wish she would spank me for it, as I have asked her to do a number of times. She did spank me three times about a year ago, bending me over the end of the bed and using a bread board. I loved it, but she said I wanted it too hard and she wasn't comfortable doing it.
So now I have the disciplinary wife leadership I want, but not the consequences I want! And that leaves me with very mixed feelings. Any advice? Can she truly be a disciplinary wife without corporal punishment?
Anton,
DeleteMy wife and I have only one bank account, and she writes almost all of the checks. Since I am not put on an allowance, nor is she, the fining "punishment" you describe would be meaningless.
If you want corporal punishment, you simply are going to have to let your wife decide the details, such as how hard to spank you, and with what. Over time, this is likely to increase in severity, but you need to affirm her spanking efforts administered on her terms. That would surely better than no spanking at all. Doug
Can she be a disciplinary wife? Sure. And if for her it's all about leadership and shaping your behavior then she's probably better off just using positive reinforcement. Well I suppose 'disciplinary' does imply punishment, but this is getting a little off track. Anyway the point though is that spanking in the context of adult disciplinary relationships is largely, in my opinion at least, about expressing feelings. The feelings that come from being vulnerable and exposed is what makes it such an intimate experience. Maybe physical punishment isn't the only way to get there, but for a lot of us that physical accountability is a pretty key component.
DeleteI know some dominant women make the point that if the woman is in control then this means it's totally her call how to go about things and it shouldn't be about servicing the man. That makes good sense on paper but it's a little too neat. Ideally both people get something out of it. And talking about wanting a dynamic where certain roles are taken on and feelings expressed might be a more accurate way of describing this desire than just wanting to be a submissive partner.
Jake, I want to say I think your reply to Anton is excellent. You are right that from a leadership perspective positive reinforcement is the best technique for modifying behavior. That's one of the reasons most experts on parenting are against spanking children. I also agree that for those of us who desire "physical accountability", it is all about the "intimate experience" of FEELING "vulnerable and exposed." For me, those are intensely erotic feelings, and I believe that, at some level, the desire of most men for DD is erotic.
DeleteYou are right that some would-be "dominant women" have embraced the idea of "the kink free FLR." They argue that if a men really want to empower and "serve" their partners, they shouldn't ask for anything in return. That means they especially shouldn't ask for "kinky" stuff like spankings. I agree with you that the argument "makes good sense on paper". It is logical. But I also agree with you that it is flawed. The problem with the idea of "kink free FLR" is that the idea of a 24/7 power exchange in which all the advantages accrue to the woman is in itself kinky, and the men drawn to it inevitably have kinks. I have observed that websites dedicated to "kink free FLR" are largely run by single women who are angry that all the men who are interested in FLR have needs of their own. FLR fails if the men are looking for nothing more than a woman to service their kinks. But it also fails if the women think that being dominant means they should be able to ignore the man's needs, and you are right that those "needs" are very much a matter of "feelings" that need to be addressed.
DJ
Anton, welcome. Sorry, I was a busy this week and did not get around to replying before.
DeleteI agree with Jake. "I know some dominant women make the point that if the woman is in control then this means it's totally her call how to go about things and it shouldn't be about servicing the man. That makes good sense on paper but it's a little too neat. Ideally both people get something out of it."
I would take it a step further and say that if both people do not get something out of it, that aspect of the relationship is unlikely to last. Also, all too often this "do not argue with my decision not to discipline you" is nothing more than lazy leadership.
Doug,
ReplyDeleteWe divide up $1,000 in discretionary income at the beginning of the month. So I have $500 she can take in fines that I use for sporting events, going out with the guys, etc. So I do feel pain from the fines.
It's not that I am unaccepting of her spanking choices; she refuses to spank at all!
Anton,
ReplyDeleteI will answer your last question first. "Can she truly be a disciplinary wife without corporal punishment?" Of course she can! If you truly want "discipline", should she not give you consequences you don't want rather than ones you want. If you want her to spank you, spanking you would be more of a reward than a consequence. I suspect that fining you, on the other hand, is a truly disciplinary consequence.
My advice it to talk to your wife about why you want to be spanked. If the reason is erotic, which it probably is since you want it, be honest about that. I wouldn't advise trying to tell her that corporal punishment is the only form of discipline severe enough to control behavior because that would be BS, and she will see through it. She may also decide that doing something she finds distasteful is too high a price for being in control of your behavior.
Now, if you can get her to consider spanking you again, I agree with Doug that you have to let her decide the details like how hard and with what. She spanked you three times then stopped, and she told you why she stopped. You wanted her to spank you harder and she wasn't comfortable doing that. You pushed her beyond her comfort zone, so she pulled the plug on it.
When my wife agreed to have a wife led marriage with spanking, she made a rule right at the beginning. I was not to criticize the way she spanked me. She would spank me when she saw fit, in a manner she saw fit. She told me, "Just don't expect me to match your spanking fantasies because I know I'll never be able to do that."
She was right, of course. I fantasize about long, harsh spankings that break me down and make me cry. She's not comfortable with that, so she doesn't do it. But consider this: there is symbolic side to spanking that doesn't require your wife to paddle you until your butt is black and blue and you are sobbing.
You said you loved it when your wife spanked you those three times. What did you love about it? Did you love the physical pain? Or were you aroused by the D/s symbolism of being bent over the bed and having your bottom paddled, even if it didn't hurt that much?
As I've said, my wife is not a harsh spanker, though she has become more comfortable making it hurt with time. However, she has become very good at the psychological and symbolic aspects of spanking in a way that empowers her and humbles and arouses me. She knows how to scold. She knows how to make me blush.
Those are perhaps some things you should keep in mind if you decide to talk to your wife about it. You say our wife has become very strict about things that bother her. That's good. It means she sees benefit for herself in being in control. If she understands that spanking is part of the erotic kink that makes you want to put her in control, and that it is something she can do on her own terms without you pushing her for more more more, she may be receptive to trying it again. And if she does, you have to express your gratitude.
That's my advice.
DJ
Anton,
ReplyDeleteYour wife sounds like a wise woman. She tried spanking you and apparently spanked you as hard as was comfortable for her, and it wasn't hard enough to be true punishment for you. But she was intrigued by the Disciplinary Couple relationship, so a year later she has come up with a punishment that works: fining you. And that hurts you where you live: You miss the sporting events you love, and you have little money to go out with the guys.
She has also made sure there is a very clear power exchange: She decides when you have misbehaved, and she decides what the punishment will be. And maybe in some months, as the fines mount, she will have the entire $1,000 in discretionary income to do with as she wishes, and you will have nothing.
So you have to decide: Do I really want a Disciplinary Wife, or do I just want to be spanked as a turn-on. The other men here have talked about the ritual of punishment as erotic, rather than the spanking itself--which most of them find to NOT be erotic. Well, maybe you can find her ritual of punishment to be erotic for you: When she scolds you, when she tells you to go get the fine money, when you hand it to her. Your mind can make those things sexy. Maybe you should fall on your knees when you present the money to her, and thank her for fining you and making you a better husband and father. And then realize that she is giving you what you need--the complex satisfaction of submitting to a Disciplinary Wife--even if she never again paddles your behind.
As usual your post demonstrates wisdom and insight, Helen. I would, however, tweak one of the statements you make: "The other men here have talked about the ritual of punishment as erotic, rather than the spanking itself--which most of them find to NOT be erotic." I am skeptical of the idea that the men who submit to hard spankings that are truly "disciplinary" don't find those spankings, on some level, erotic. You have noted yourself how much sexual energy your disciplinary regime with Andy has injected into your marriage. Discipline can be both real and erotic, and I believe the male craving for "domestic discipline" is ultimately an erotic craving. I have no doubt that, for that reason, Anton must feel jealous of Andy when he reads your posts.
DeleteI do, however, agree with you that it is possible for an imaginative man to eroticize other forms of discipline. My power exchange with my wife originated in my erotic obsession with spanking. But as we have gone deeper into the power exchange, the erotic feelings I associate with spanking have spread to other manifestations of my wife's domestic authority. Would I miss it if my wife decided she didn't want to paddle my behind anymore? Yes, of course. Would I, therefore, pull the plug on our FLR? No, I don't think so. I am turned on by her authoritative manner and her expectation of obedience from me, and I think I would be turned on by that even if she stopped spanking me. As you said, it is a "complex satisfaction." To give an idea of how my erotic imagination works, I tend to think of a "scolding" as a "verbal spanking." And I'm pretty sure that in Anton's shoes, I would think of my wife's imposition of fines as "monetary spankings."
DJ
I agree with Helen, and this appears to be one of those areas in which the rubber meets the road on the purposes of the power exchange. If a couple really is trying to encourage good behavior and discourage bad behavior, then a moderate spanking may do absolutely nothing to bring those about if the person is, at heart, a spanko. Because he likes it. So, the true Disciplinary Wife may need to find something other than spanking. Something that he truly is averse to. The advice to sexualize that other thing too is really a solution that doesn't match the problem. Instead, it points out that that DJ's underlying assumption is that the goal of discipline is sexual gratification. Instead, it may be a by-product, not the end in itself. Or, it may be that if the goal really is her doing what it takes to make him perform better, then sexual or erotic gratification may be exactly the wrong thing to build into it.
DeleteI think it is very true that "Your mind can make those things sexy." I do not find tidying up or vacuuming in themselves exciting activities. However when I am doing them to please my partner, I do feel a certain amount of excitement, especially if I wearing just my briefs while she is fully clothed. It is the same when she wants me to do something. If she just says: "It's about time you took out the garbage", it is not particularly exciting. But if she says: "Naughty boy! You haven't taken out the garbage, do it now!" I do find it exciting.
ReplyDeleterichard
Hello Richard and DJ,
DeleteI strongly agree with your sentiments expressed here. In fact, I think most all the activities that my wife and I do with regards to this are not really all the exciting in and of themselves, and some of them are even pretty undesirable. But the power exchange is what makes all this so exciting. It can make even the most mundane activity intensely stimulating, and generally the worse the activity is, the more clear it becomes just how much power has traded hands.
-ZM
I agree completely that anything can be made exciting if you add an element of power exchange into it. You know what really turns me on? Cleaning and polishing my wife's boots or shoes, especially if she has just scolded me for failing to notice they needed to be cleaned.
DeleteDJ
Thank you for all the comments and advice. I am doing my best to sexualize being fined, and it is working a little bit. And I am trying not to do anything to discourage her from being a disciplinary wife. But I definitely want the spanking too. Sometimes after she fines me, I sneak off and spank myself and imagine it is her! Meanwhile, I am doing all of the chores she assigns, bringing her coffee in bed in the morning, and trying to be the best servant husband I can be. I appreciate this blog!
ReplyDeleteThis may be an off-the wall comment. But have you considered getting a spanking machine? I only ask that becuase you mentioned self-spanking. I know it's an out-of-the-box idea, but if she supports you having something like that it could possibly lead to bringing the whole spanking thing more to the center of your whole dynamic together. Maybe she would like to assign you go use it, or even better supervise.
DeleteAnton,
DeleteI remember well the longings I felt for spanking during the many years of my first marriage, but my wife was TOTALLY turned off by it. I had largely resigned myself to never being content in that area.
In the years after that, I was unhappily divorced and now happily remarried, and my wife is very, very open to all this. She started out hesitant and reluctant, but now she is more than able to bring huge amounts of pain. She still normally stops sooner than I might desire (though at the time I am usually happy for it to end), but she spanks very hard and we have some pretty severe implements.
Only time will tell whether your wife will warm to spanking or not, but I find the fact that she is open to holding you to standards and enforcing infractions with fines as a very positive thing. Now it is just the means of punishment that you would like to see evolve.
One of the hardest things about spanking, especially if you have wanted it for a long time and if it is new to her, is managing your own expectations. In the beginning, and for a long time after that for many wives, it is very hard for her to spank you as hard as you might have fantasized about. All I can say is be patient, and probably it will come, but be thankful for what you get and be careful to not be too openly disappointed. You are trying to reinforce her and build her up!
-ZM
ZM, I agree with you completely about managing expectations and being patient.
DeleteTommy, are spanking machines an actual thing. I know spanking artists have envisioned such machines for years, but do they actually exist? And, if so, do they really work?
DJ
Anton, I think you are on the right track. Believe me, I know what it is like to crave spankings and not get them because my wife rejected the idea when I first asked her to spank me. That's why I think you need to be patient. Doing your assigned chores, bringing her breakfast in bed: those are good things. I would add something else into the mix: foot massages! Lots of foot massages. I would recommend Googling "How to give a foot massage" to learn how to do it well, then pamper your wife that way. Oh, and get some good massage oil with a sensual scent. My wife loves a foot massage at the end of the day, so I do it kneeling at the foot of our bed. If part of the allure of spanking for you is the symbolism of submission, kneeling to massage your wife's feet will be a turn-on. Warning: you might develop a bit of thing for her feet too. LOL
DeleteI have one other suggestion. Take your time about raising the issue of spanking. And when you do, you might want to write her a letter about it, explaining your feelings to her. That's really what did the trick for me. I found it embarrassing trying to explain my feelings to my wife, so I did it poorly at first. But when I did it in writing she got it. I know that what worked for me won't necessarily work for everyone, but it might be worth a try.
DJ
DJ Spanking machines are definitely a things. Let me refer you to my last Blog entry on the subject. It's on the links on the right side of the Disciplinary Couples Blog under Tomyswife.
Deletehttp://tomyswife.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-spanking-machine.html
Thanks for your link to your blog, Tomy. That is a fascinating entry on the spanking machine. I had no idea they were real. I think that really could work in a DD relationship in which the wife is uncomfortable giving a spanking. Being spanked by machine would lack the intimacy of a spanking by one's partner, but if the guy's wife "sentenced" him to a spanking for x minutes at y intensity with implement z, the power exchange element would certainly be there.
DeleteGreat blog, by the way, Tomy. I'm sorry for you loss. I was a fan of Aunt Kay for years. What male spanko wasn't?
DJ
Thanks DJ. I appreciate it. I am kind of lost not only becuase of the heartbreak of losing the best part of my life, but with no DWC friends around it looks like a long journey without female discipline -
DeleteI guess we all adapt.
Tomy,
DeleteI wish some of the many couples who you and Kay mentored would help you out. Couldn't one of the wives provide you some discipline? Or are they all too far away? Even though you never mentored us directly, Andy was a regular reader of your sit--and he and I would discuss the articles and take advice from them. If we lived near you, I would have a discussion with Andy about whether it would be OK to spank you when you need it--even though we are a monogamous couple. You and your wife are pioneers who helped so many! Please reach out to those you know in the community!
Helen,
DeleteAll I can say is that I am more grateful for your compassionate understanding and empathy than you can imagine. I live away from any really populated centers, in the Sierra Foothills near Grass Valley.
But I trust that the Universe has its ways.....
Tomynash@gmail.com
Exactly, DJ! Domestic discipline has more in common with maternal discipline than it does with BDSM. A while back I was in a local supermarket and there was a young couple near me. The man did something the woman didn't approve of - I think he wanted to put something in the trolley that she didn't want to buy - and she promptly slapped his bottom two or three times. It was just the way my mother would have treated me as a kid when I acted up - and the way my girlfriend treats me now when I act up!
ReplyDeleterichard
Hey, Richard, was that guy who got his bottom smacked by his wife in the store trying to sneak potato chips into the trolley? Maybe it was me! ;-) My wife has actually done that in the store.
DeleteIt might have been! I couldn't see exactly. I am glad your wife knew how to deal with it. A few firm smacks on the bottom are more effective than nagging, especially when other people see them.
ReplyDeleterichard
Joe2 here,
ReplyDeleteI do not live in a FLR, but I receive spankings to relieve the stress of my job- to be rebalanced. When I am stressed, I withdraw from others. I’ll smile, but the smile never reaches my eyes. I respond to conversations, but I do not contribute.
In almost all cases, I have to ask to be spanked. We have kids, so the spankings have to be planned. But there have been some exceptions. Each time was very powerful. In the last year, it has happened fewer than five times, but each time was mentally very strong. I will describe the most memorable.
It had been a long week. Problems were many, solutions were few. By Friday, I had at least eight hours of work that needed to be accomplished, but supplier problems ensured that Monday would only be a continuation of Friday.
If I am home, we have a family dinner. With all of our schedules, it is really the only time that we have a fighting chance that we can be together, so my wife fixes a dinner reminiscent of those 1950s dinners. We spend time talking, joking and planning the weekend’s events. This Friday, I couldn't let go of work problems. I answered questions and laughed at the appropriate comment, but as soon as I could I retreated to my computer.
I pulled up all pertinent spreadsheets and youtube. My plan was to review the problems, watch “how to restore an axe blade,” let my subconscious find a solution to the problems, and drink beer. One kid had a sleep over and the other was playing online.
After about three beers, four youtube videos (Did you know that you can weld using car batteries?) and numerous views of supplier issues, my wife came to me. She gripped my forearm, looked me in the eyes and said, “You need to be rebalanced.” It was emotionally very powerful. My stomach flipped, I lowered my eyes, and stood up and let her direct me.
She had done something similar a few times in the past, but nothing so direct and never with a kid at home.
My wife held my forearm and took me into a room where we would not be heard. My thoughts were three fold: a kid is in the house, so this is what a FLR feels like, and I need this.
She spanked me hard and long. Usually, I need time to get my brain into the process- let her have control and accept the pain. But not this time. By the time she had me in the room, I was a submissive as I ever been.
The spanking itself was nothing memorable, but many months later I still reflect about it.
Joe2, quite a story! It seems spankings for you serve the same purpose that it does for Dan.
DeleteDoug
I am not sure they are quite the same. Joe2 has always said his spankings are for stress relief. That isn't really a thing for me. Mine is about accountability and being punished for things that are not in my best interest. So, while having too many beers while watching Youtube videos until well past my bedtime, definitely would get me spanked, my wife would not really be doing it to rebalance me between home and work but, rather punishing me for staying up late and having too many beers and to deter me from doing it again. There is a "balance" element in my desire for DD, but it is more about sanding off the edges and diminishing the Alpha down to something less intense. I'm not saying there aren't some overlaps with Joe2's motivation, but I don't think DD has the same "stress relief" element for me.
DeleteGreat posting everyone, It's amazing how having additional females joining in the conversations changes the dynamic of the discussion, and I appreciate everyone's contributions.
ReplyDeleteJohn
Hi richard, DJ and others
ReplyDeleteSeveral recent comments about hand spanking were very interesting to me. I have been there especially the spontaneous hand spanking prompted by naughty behavior such as a grocery store and also the sharp cracks to the bottom while being escorted to the punishment room. Also there is something very powerful about even mild bare bottom cracks while standing in the corner being scolded. The sharp unexpected face smack also belongs in this category. But what these all establish or re-establish is instant obedience allowing a wife to assert authority without resistance. This is both powerful and in my case ends any rebellion I might be foolish enough to exhibit. But and it is a big but (pun observed) in my case it takes hard consistent spanking of the type Helen has described to really modify behavior or teach new behavior. So hand sparking and even face slapping to gain and keep control. But to really change behaviors serious spanking is the only thing that has ever worked for me. A women who really wants to change behavior deserves to know the difference.
Alan
Alan, I agree with this. And, see my comment above about some of the comments getting pretty muddled about disciplinary versus erotic spankings.
DeleteAlan, I have doubts about the need for really hard spankings to modify behaviour as a general rule, though I don’t doubt your claim that you need that.
ReplyDeleteThe logic of your claim would seem to be that fear is the most powerful tool a disciplinarian possesses. I’m not sure about that. In last week’s discussion I told about one of the most humiliating and painful punishments I ever received: a brutal pants down strapping my father gave me—at the age of 14!—in a public part of the house (the kitchen) when we had two female cousins staying with us.
If fear was an effective way of modifying behaviour, that punishment should have modified my behaviour. In fact, it had the opposite effect. After the initial humiliation wore off, I became angry, and I began to show my anger openly and became defiantly rebellious. I knew I was running the risk that my father would do it again, but my anger was stronger than my fear by that point. In fact, I don’t know why exactly, but my father never hit me again. Maybe my mother forbade him from hitting me. Maybe he felt remorseful. Or maybe he realized that the punishment had a negative effect.
There is another reason for doubting the effectiveness of hard spankings as the best way to change behaviour: if that is so, why do such spankings have to be periodically repeated? I believe they tend to be repeated in some DD relationships because they are serving a sexual purpose that isn’t related only to behaviour modification.
My wife has spanked me only once in real anger. I sometimes have a bad habit of adding to her telling of a story, even going as far as finishing her sentences, I am embarrassed to say. I guess the temptation to do that is increased by the fact that English is her second language. But I have often done it unconsciously, and it makes her angry. I don’t blame her for getting angry.
Well, one evening we were conversing with another couple in our living room after supper, and I started to do that while my wife was telling them something. Suddenly, she exploded and tore a strip off me in a loud angry voice. My face must have turned deep red, and the mouths of our friends dropped open in amazement. If there is such a thing as a “verbal spanking”, that was one, and it was delivered in front of our guests. After an awkward silence, the conversation resumed, but I was silent and embarrassment for the rest of the evening.
To be honest, I didn’t expect to get spanked after our guests went home. I thought my wife was so angry with me that she wouldn’t even bother with me. But when I went to the bedroom to get ready for bed, she followed me. She opened the closet, took out the heavy leather strap she rarely uses, and in a really angry voice, ordered me to pull down my pants and bend over the end of the bed.
Feeling sheepish and ashamed, I did as she said. Then for the only time ever, she wound up struck me all her might, which is considerable because she has a black belt in karate, each blow punctuating an angry word:
Don’t! WHAP You! WHAP Ever! WHAP Do! WHAP That! WHAP Again! WHAP
That was the most painful punishment I have received since my last encounter with my father’s belt. I bucked and cried out involuntarily with each searing blow, amazed at the reminder of how much a strapping can hurt, and shocked at the intensity of the anger behind the blows.
When she had finished, she threw the strap down on the bed beside me and told me to go sleep in the guest room. I cried in bed alone that night, not from physical pain but because I felt terrible for making her that angry, and I felt alienated from her.
I have been very careful never to make that mistake again, but not because I fear another strapping. I mean, she only struck me six times. What modified my behaviour was that it hurt me to know that my thoughtlessness had hurt her enough to provoke that response.
DJ
DJ,
DeleteI totally disagree that in a Disciplinary Couple's relationship that really hard spankings are about fear as a disciplinary tool. That may be true when a parent spanks a child, but a Disciplinary Couple's relationship is consensual. Andy doesn't fear me one bit. Nor does he fear a hard spanking.
He agrees with me that the hard spankings he receives are deserved and that they have a purpose: To imprint on his brain that the misbehavior causes him pain in his derriere. Regarding the behavior that began our disciplinary relationship, it took several progressively more severe spankings before he realized that he needed to make taking out the garbage on time a priority. I believe he has missed one garbage day in the past 20 years, and that one had extenuating circumstances.
I believe hard spanking is a form of training and is somewhat Pavlovian: Every Wednesday Andy feels a prickling memory in his butt that reminds him to take out the garbage. The spanking no longer has to be repeated in order to serve its purpose (just as Pavlov's dogs were trained to salivate from a bell even when food was not provided). The memory of a painful spanking is equivalent the bell, taking out the garbage is equivalent to salivating, and the spanking that is no longer provided is equivalent to the dog food that was no longer provided.
I agree that there are much worse punishments than a hard spanking and that they include withdrawal of affection. But I never want to use that punishment; I love my husband unconditionally, so why would I withdraw my affection? And while spanking can hardly be described as affection, the process and ritual of "maternal discipline" IS affectionate--as is the very un-maternal aftercare that Andy and I typically engage in. And fear is no part of the equation!
While I agree with Helen on this for the most part, there have been times that fear, or at least anxiety, about the prospect of a spanking have been part of my reaction. It's usually when I have had one already, and I know how bad a second is going to hurt. Or, sometimes when she has ordered one and I spend several hours waiting for it, there is something close to "fear" in that anticipation.
DeleteI don't see that fear as inconsistent with "maternal" aspect of discipline. Little boys who get spanked by their mother, father or principle do fear the spanking. At least I did growing up. If anything, the more open I am to that maternal aspect of discipline, the more the anticipation of the spanking is anxiety-inducing and not as erotic in nature. In fact, to get more graphic, I have noticed that for the last few spankings, when I have been letting myself get more into the headspace of a misbehaving boy, while I still do get an erection, it is not nearly as hard and goes away much more quickly. And, a few times I have not gotten one at all.
Helen and Dan,
DeleteIt seems pretty obvious to me that instilling fear is part of the purpose of a punitive spanking, or of any kind of "punishment" that is meant to deter a person from repeating certain behaviours. When I was growing up, I feared two aspects of spankings: pain and embarrassment.
Where I agree with you, Helen, is that I don't think that Andy fears YOU, and I can see why you wouldn't like that idea. I do think, however, it is possible to fear a certain disciplinary act without fearing the disciplinarian who does it out of love
As a former educator, I would say that corporal punishment is in general a very bad tool for (neo-Pavlovian) behaviour modification. (Note that Pavlov’s original experiment modified the dog’s behaviour through reward rather than punishment).That's the main reason corporal punishment has been banned in schools throughout most of North America and Europe. Positive reinforcement is the best way of shaping behaviour, and "consequences" for undesirable behaviour shouldn’t be "punitive". For example, spanking a student for not doing homework would be inappropriate because it is purely punitive. Insisting that the homework still be done, perhaps during recess, would be an appropriate consequence because it focuses directly on the value of the homework for the learner.
The biggest problem with spanking to modify the behaviour of children is that the pain and embarrassment of spanking can lower a child's self esteem, and lower self esteem tends to reduce a child's ability to learn. This discussion about increasing the disciplinary effect of spanking by increasing the intensity also highlights one of the dangers of spanking children. When a child has been spanked for some misbehaviour and the spanking fails to modify that behaviour, the temptation is to spank more harshly in an effort to increase the deterrent value of the punishment
Consensual disciplinary spanking among adults is different than spanking children. Consent probably neutralizes the effect of spanking on self esteem. But if increasing the intensity of DD spankings increased their effectiveness as behaviour modification, I question why such spankings need to be administered periodically. They should become unnecessary after a few harsh ones.
I believe we get involved in DD relationships for reasons that are ultimately sexual, and that “disciplinary” spankings are every bit as sexual as overtly erotic ones. If that weren’t so, why do we all feel a need to hide the fact that mommy spanks daddy from our kids? We instinctively feel it is inappropriate to reveal it to our kids because, whether “disciplinary” or “erotic”, we feel spanking to be a part of our sex lives. I would also say that how hard a wife spanks her husband isn’t a purely disciplinary decision; rather spanking more harshly (or in a more humiliating manner) is a way of kicking the erotic power exchange up a notch. I would say that’s why it turns you one to spank Andy harshly, Helen, and that’s why Andy’s arousal returns with a vengeance once the erection inhibiting effect of the spanking wears off.
The way my wife spanks me, feelings of embarrassment and shame are activated, but I don’t fear the pain of her spankings because they aren’t that painful. However, if she started to spank me as harshly as Helen spanks Andy, I am certain that I would experience fear of her hairbrush as an erotic feeling. However, I couldn’t try any harder to avoid displeasing her than I already do because her displeasure itself, and not any punishment, is the greatest deterrent for me.
DJ
DJ, I don't want to get into the merits of corporal punishment for kids, and actually kind of wish commenters would respect my wish to keep it off the blog. But, now that you've raised it, is there any empirical evidence at all for this little theory that the educational establishment foisted on us a generation ago that self-esteem leads to achievement, instead of the converse? This theory prevailed for an entire generation, the result being the Millenials, probably the least impressive, least resilient, least accomplished generation in a hundred years. It's a generation characterized, especially with its boys, for falling test scores, lower college admission rates, and less, not greater, emotional resilience. People gain self-esteem via accomplishment, they don't become accomplished because they have high self-esteem. 20+ years into this self-esteem experiment that stood that principle on its head, I don't think there is any real evidence that telling people they are special makes them so.
DeleteFor one of the the hands-down funniest things I've ever seen on the results of all this positive reinforcement on Millennials' self-esteem, check out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo0KjdDJr1c
I also disagree that the primary reason people hide DD from their children is because it is erotic. If you asked my wife why she hides it from our kids, she would say it is because she was always afraid that it would diminish their respect for me. It is the chain of command issue, not the eroticism that gets in the way of her openness. And, there are lots of things we don't discuss with kids, because it is not an appropriate topic for them, not because it is erotic. For years, I have been very reluctant for my kids to know how much money I make, because I don't want it to influence them or create any sense of entitlement or superiority. If fact, I am far more open to them knowing about our DD lifestyle than I am to them knowing the details of my personal finances.
DeleteSimilarly, the harshness of a spanking does NOT amp up the eroticism for me. Quite the opposite. As she has ramped up severity of spankings over time and as they have become something that I really, truly want to avoid at the cost of behaving better, they have become LESS erotic for me, not more so. But, I get turned on by her exercise of power, regardless of whether it has anything to do with spanking. It doesn't work that way for you, likely because as you admit, the spankings you receive aren't very painful.
Those of you who believe spankings don't work for behavior modification have not experienced three progressively severe sessions with my hairbrush. Andy's behavior change is real and permanent (with a possible reminder needed every 5-10 years or so).
ReplyDeleteI think this has been a pretty consistent theme from multiple Disciplinary Wives -- a key to success is being willing to continue to escalate consistently until the behavior stops or is at least mitigated. It also may mean that if the spanking just does not work, possibly because the husband is too turned on by it, then other methods (grounding, withholding privileges, fines in Anton's case) need to be brought to bear.
DeleteI'll say this about "permanency", I am the person I am today largely due to Aunt Kay's influence. She inspired and supported me in so many ways. But I know without a doubt I would never have grown to who I am without the spankings.
DeleteI know I will do my best to maintain the character she respected. Day to day motivation is sometimes a bit more challenging. But for what it's worth, I have the Machine. We'll see if that actually gets long-term traction in my life or not.
How is the machine working out? Is the intensity high enough to meet your needs for something that feels like real discipline?
DeleteHelen, I was under the impression that, as in most DD relationships I have read about, your hairbrush is deployed on a regular basis. If, however, the interval between spankings is measured in years, I guess I have to rethink my judgment of the efficacy of spanking as a tool of behavior modification.
DeleteDJ
DJ,
DeleteYou misinterpret. For specific issues that have been resolved, I may not need to spank again for years. But there are always new issues! It would be unusual for much more than a week to go by without my hairbrush engaging Andy's derriere. Just about the time the previous marks have all faded ...
I am being a little judgmental but anyone who doesn't understand what Helen is saying has not been in a real DD relationship. They are dynamic and as your wife assumes authority she "discovers" new standards and establishes stricter boundaries. I think it's partly just her empowerment where she connects with what behavior she really expects and partly her love for you which grows with you accepting her discipline and makes her want to make you the best man you are capable of being. BTW my own spankings after many years are about one a month on average compared to Andy's weekly. Maybe I am just better behaved but I suspect Helen could write the book on being an effective disciplinary wife. Helen, thanks for adding much to our ongoing dialogue
DeleteAlan
Alan, I completely agree with your statement about DD (or D/s) relationships: "They are dynamic and as your wife assumes authority she 'discovers' new standards and establishes stricter boundaries." I think D/s relationships tend naturally towards a greater degree of strictness because if the couple want to maintain that D/s dynamic, there will be a need for the disciplinarian to find ever more refined reasons to demonstrate her disciplinary authority. In time even minor infractions may be punished with a rigor out of proportion to "the crime." Given that husbands are often more enthusiastic about submitting to punishment than wives are about dishing it out, it is common to see guys wishing their wives would be "stricter." From what Helen has told us of her disciplinary regimen, Andy probably doesn't have that problem. I agree that Helen's contributions to the discussion have given us a fascinating glimpse into the thinking of an enthusiastic disciplinarian who enjoys exercising power. Thank you for that, Helen.
DeleteDJ
First of all, thanks for the compliments. My husband has been badgering me for years to either start my own blog or write on other blogs, but I haven't done much of it. I guess I enjoy exchanging comments with all you naughty boys.
DeleteI agree 100% with Alan and DJ about disciplinary wives getting stricter as the relationship progresses. For me, it has been a process to train Andy to do things the way I believe they should be done. For example, the dishes. A couple years after our disciplinary relationship started, I made a rule that if a person cooks a meal for the family, then that person does not clean up. Seems very fair. Andy however had hardly ever lifted a finger to do any dishes, so I had to do some enforcement. At first I spanked him so that he would agree to the new rule. Then I spanked him when he forgot to do the dishes. Then I spanked him to do the dishes more correctly; I had to teach him what should go in the dishwasher and what shouldn't. As I think I mentioned in another post, I then had to spank him for leaving the sink wet after he has completed the dishes.
So with some boys it's a process of learning how to do something. It's not really that I'm getting more strict. I would have liked him to do it the correct way from the very beginning. But I had to take it in stages so that he could get the message more completely. It's just too difficult for some of you guys to learn the entire process all at once! His bottom would never recover!
We are, indeed, a little slow on the uptake sometimes.
DeleteHere's another permanence example I remembered. We had company who came all the way from the UK to meet Aunt Kay They were delightful people and the wife was pretty strict with him; almost the mistress thing.
DeleteUsually in circumstances like that it wasn't long before both women were "in charge" of both men. We went out to dinner and I drove. At that time, as incredible as it probably sounds today, I did not automatically put on my seat belt. Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
She was horrified when I began to drive without it and insisted that I buckle up; which I did with no problem. After dinner I again forgot. I simply was not in the habit. She said that we would "have a conversation about it" when we got home. I looked over at my wife who simply shrugged as if to say "it's your problem kid."
That was the day I found out about English Mistresses and their lovely canes. I'm pretty sure she went relatively easy on me. Which means the welts at least had spaces between them. Permanency - from that day forward, and I mean for the rest of my life, I became an all-the-time, every-time, seat belt wearer.
That's a great story!
DeleteAnd an example of permanent behavior change from just one discipline session!
Deletewow!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteDan,
ReplyDeleteI'm chuckling at your question becuase I have never been an "intensity" hero. Much more on the lower-tolerance side of the scale. But I seriously doubt that anyone would find the machine inadequate. Well, there's always someone. But it's capabilities exceed my personal requirements.
Having low personal requirements seems like the key to a lot of happiness in life.
DeleteHmmm. I think I take your meaning "low personal requirements". But I'm not sure.I'm taking it to mean someone who doesn't think the world owes them everything. Is that it?
DeleteClose. The more you need the world to meet certain requirements, the harder it is to be happy. If you love food, but you set higher and higher standards for what you like, the more and more experiences in life disappoint you. I've had some really good meals at expensive restaurants. But, guess what? I really, really like a good Chipotle burrito. So, the point I was making is that the lower your requirements for what makes you satisfied, the more likely you are to have a life that is actually happy.
DeleteI agree completely with the philosophical notion that happiness is an "inside job". And over the years I have aimed toward simplifying life where I could. I don't consider myself a really material person. But on the other hand I have a lot of things in my house and garage that still need new homes(hint).
ReplyDeleteBut of course the ultimate external source of happiness for me was my all-encompassing love for Aunt Kay. But I guess that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
Hopefully this conversation isn't a drag for your readers. They don't come here looking for this kind of material.
The readers I want will be just fine with it.
DeleteI've never cried either, but I'd really like to. I think it would be great to be spanked to the point of really letting everything go. As you mentioned, it may be a matter of duration. Continuous, unrelenting smacks. I'm beginning to think that uninterrupted duration may be more important than the severity of the whacks, though they'd still have to be pretty hard.
ReplyDeleteI think crying is all about the punished husband's emotional state and has little to do with the duration or severity of the spanking. As you all know by now, I spank hard and long. Andy seldom cries, and when he does it seems unrelated to how hard or long he is getting it. The last time he cried, I asked him what brought the tears and he sobbed, "Because you were saying how much you love me and how much you want me to be the best man I can be." So the tears were triggered by a comment I made that demonstrated loving domestic discipline. Though at the time I didn't realize I was saying or doing anything different than any other OTK session. But I do love him always (though I sometimes hate his behavior), and I think it is important that the one holding the hairbrush makes that very clear. Have others been triggered to cry by similar emotions?
ReplyDeleteI am not the best resource on this issue, having gone more than 10 years in this lifestyle without crying. Based on those times I have gotten close and on others' comments, I suspect that for most men long and hard is a necessary, but not a sufficient, component for bringing about tears. Several weeks ago, ZM recounted his first real tears from a DD spanking, and the primary difference was the duration. So, while I'm sure some men just naturally cry easily, for others you need both high severity and/or long duration PLUS some emotional state that includes love, guilt, remorse or some other other strong emotion that opens him up to giving in and letting go.
DeleteBeautifully said!
DeleteI'm late to responding to this comment about tears. But I am in 100% agreement with it.
DeleteThe issue of asking to be punished is an issue in our household. My wife began disciplining me at my request about 12 years ago and since my retirement from work 12months ago has become considerably more dominant, she is still working. I welcome her increased dominance but one thing she is demanding of me is that ‘ I become more vocal about my submission’ and in particular she expects me to ask for punishment when I think I need or deserve it. Like the example given in the main blog I find this really difficult and spend quite a lot of time building up courage to ask, not because I am afraid of the punishment but I simply find it really embarrassing to open up in this way. The good news is that I am gradually getting better but I certainly don’t yet ask as often as I should.
ReplyDeleteHi Peter. I feel the same way -- it is very hard for me to ask for it, but because of the embarrassment; not so much the prospect of the spanking.
DeleteAndy doesn't ask for punishment. Instead, he confesses to the behavior for which he knows he will be punished. Maybe taking that approach could help.
DeleteWe do that, but for whatever reason the emotional impact of confessing to the behavior just isn't the same as doing that PLUS asking for the punishment. I don't have any special insight on why the two seem so different emotionally, but they do.
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