“If you can’t do the little things right, you will never do the big things right.” — William H. McRaven
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Wives Club – Tribute blog. Our weekly on-line gathering of women and men who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship of the type advocated by the former Disciplinary Wives Club (archived copy in the “Links I Like” list, below right).
I hope you had a great week. Mine was another fairly bad one, as I’m having a hard time recovering from my recent setback. I guess in my late 50s I don’t bounce back as well as I used to. Getting old is not for sissies, yet I prefer it to the only known alternative.
We had a fairly good discussion last week, especially considering the set up being a single spanking meme. I don’t plan to do that a lot in the future, but it seemed better than not posting at all, so I’ll probably do it again, though next time I really try not to let the single meme become a full-blown post. And, the discussion was robust enough to suggest things to talk about this week. So, there is that. Speaking of which . . .
It began with me responding to this comment from Red:
“[A]lthough I suggest Cindy should be stricter and spank more often, and she is doing this, it is both a spanking and a learning experience for me that certain little habits that she dislikes (I never knew how much) are spanked strongly. I am not happy with being spanked at these times, but accept and learn upon reflection to be more considerate, which is always my goal.”
My response was to the effect that it seems an inevitable risk of asking for more strictness is the prospect of getting more spankings that you aren’t fully onboard with, at least not at the time they are ordered:
That's the thing with asking for "stricter" - it almost inevitably ends up applying to things that she sees as a big deal, but you may not. I would put a lot of Anne's "pet peeves" in that category. Though, I would also note that once she says she's going to spank for them, I tend to stop doing them relatively easily. The exception is pet peeves that also involve a big element of carelessness or absent-mindedness, like leaving the garage door open or not locking doors when I leave. In those cases, I'm not downplaying or intentionally blowing off her concerns. Rather, I just forget.
Glenmore then shared some of his experience with small offenses caused mainly by absentmindedness:
“I share your sentiment on getting spanked for minor offences which are really due to absentmindedness Dan , and how selective she can be as to what constitute a spanking offence.
She had been reprimanding me for weeks about spending too much time on my phone , which I agreed with so made s point of tracking my use and even offered to accept a spanking for going over my target. Instead she gave me a pass on the basis I was doing something about it and had actually reduced my use.
The next evening, we were going to sit outside and she was really mad because I had made myself a cup of herbal tea and did not make one for her.
To me it was no big deal as it was just a spur if the moment thing and didn't think to ask her.
However,
when I did the same thing a couple of nights later she was really pissed and
afterwards she brought out the paddle and spanked me for it. I'll
make sure to remember from now on but found it odd that she considered such a
minor thing to be a spanking offense while giving me a pass on my phone use.”
T. responded with something that illustrated my point about how asking for more strictness implicitly means asking for more spankings, which in turn risks getting more spankings you don’t agree with:
I was punished again for raising my voice. I actually didn’t agree with this punishment because, in fact, my wife hurt someone’s feelings indirectly. I explained the situation to her and of course became a bit animated. I was correct but unfortunately raised my voice, and that’s exactly what I wanted my wife to hold me accountable for in the first place. She paddled my bottom hard and I gritted my teeth throughout the punishment because I felt it unjust. Therein lies the dynamic of DD that sometimes I struggle with. I want to be held accountable for my actions, but when in a discussion with my wife, where she is wrong, she doesn’t see it that way. She at times sees her side only. [But], I want my wife to be more strict and if I need a thrashing multiple times a week, then so be it.
Red then summed it all up with:
“Seems like you have your next topic Dan. That is, what seemingly innocent behavior on your part, whether absentmindedly or simply forgetting to ask, has been a pet peeve of your wife who spanked you for it? Did the behavior change? I think every husband has changed behavior because of this.”
We’ve talked before (several times) about getting spanked for “small” things. But, this discussion suggested a new angle, namely the way asking for more strictness entails getting more spankings, and the combination of increased strictness and getting spanked more often almost inevitably increases the risk of getting spanked for things you don’t agree with or that seem trivial.
Red referred specifically to “seemingly innocent behavior”. Very few of my spankings have fallen into that category. There were a couple of times when Anne spanked me for behavior when out with others that she thought was boorish or overbearing, while I saw it as just a vigorous conversation. Given the profession I was in for 25+ years, I’m very comfortable with arguing positions and am happy to get as well as I give. I think Anne gets a lot more nervous when voices are raised, and she definitely is quicker to see some topics as too controversial or political for certain company. Thus, we set the bar on “innocent behavior” at conflicting levels in that particular situation, but that’s really about as close as I’ve gotten to being spanked for “seemingly innocent behavior.”
More common is being spanked for things that seem trivial to me but aren’t to her. Leaving a chair pushed out after getting up from a meal is a biggie.
Leaving doors unlocked is another. Leaving the garage door open (accidentally) has gotten me spanked multiple times, yet I’ll concede that one as more of a problem, because our once crime-free neighborhood has experienced a surge of petty thefts from open garages.
A bigger category for us—at least in terms of threatened spankings and, had it not been for my injury, probably actual spankings too—is carelessness and the kind of absentmindedness Glenmore referred to. That has become a bigger and bigger focus, but that’s been mostly at my request. I honestly don’t think Anne cares that much about most of the incidents in this category, but for me, they are frustrating because (a) many have caused me to waste time and money fixing problems or replacing things, and a few have caused increased physical risks; and (b) many of those situations could have been avoided by paying more attention or being more careful.
When I’ve asked her to take carelessness more seriously, I’ve recognized that her doing so might increase dramatically the number of spankings, at least at first, because those incidents happen fairly regularly, and that probably isn’t going to change absent bringing a lot of strictness into it.
Further, for me, increasing the number of spankings is kind of a goal in itself, not because I “want” to be spanked more often but because I think it would benefit both of us. It would benefit me, because it would result in more behavior change and also would humble me in way that, frankly, I think I need. Conversely, spanking more often would increase her confidence and enable her to exercise more and more control more comfortably.
Yet, I know that in getting spanked more often, there are going to be more times that I disagree with the premise for the spanking. It’s very similar to what T. is going through. His example is kind of a mixed case, in that he wants his wife to spank him more often for raising his voice, yet in this case he raised his voice because he thought his wife was wrong about something. It’s the kind of trade-off that probably is inherent in asking for more strictness and her delivering it.
For me, getting spanked more often for more trivial things, and possibly for things I don’t agree with, is kind of a substitute for the way other couples use maintenance spankings. I do see a value in maintenance spankings in terms of reinforcing the roles, empowering her and humbling him, and in keeping the whole DD dynamic front-and-center. Yet, the concept of spanking on a schedule, with no accountability element, doesn’t really resonate with me or, I think, with Anne. She does seem to be fully on board with the premise that I should be spanked more often, but she seems unenthused by the idea of scheduling one weekly just to reinforce roles.
Lowering the bar on what earns a spanking, therefore, seems to offer the prospect of more frequent spankings while maintaining an element of accountability that we both want.
Another justification that resonates with me, and I think maybe with T., Red, and Glenmore as well, is the element of obedience that is in play when you get spanked for something that she has said you will get spanked for even if you think it isn’t inherently wrong or is too trivial.
That situation was summed up best by one-time commenter Mrs. Terrapin:
Early in our DD relationship, my husband, like you, asked for strictness and firmness. He craved a structured environment with clear boundaries, much like you described. However, when it came time to enforce discipline, I often found myself hesitating, especially over what seemed like minor infractions. For example, if I had told him to use a coaster on the coffee table and he didn’t, I’d question whether it was fair to spank him for something so trivial. This second-guessing was compounded by his reaction—when the moment for discipline arrived, he’d often try to talk his way out of it, sensing my hesitation. He’d say things like, “Really? For something that small?” and I’d waver. Later, though, he’d circle back and ask me to be more strict, which left me feeling caught in a cycle of doubt and frustration.
This pattern persisted until I had a game-changing epiphany: nearly all of the behaviors that warranted discipline boiled down to one of two root causes—disobedience or disrespect. This realization shifted everything for me. Instead of focusing on the surface-level infraction, I began to see the deeper issue. For instance, not using a coaster wasn’t about the coaster itself (which, I agree, is minor); it was about him disobeying a direct instruction, which is an extremely serious matter. And even in instances where I hadn't given a direct instruction or rule, often there is a root cause of disrespect (for instance, him leaving a pair of dirty socks on the bedroom floor - the socks are trivial, the attitude that it's my job to be his maid is a significant display of disrespect).
This perspective changed how I approached discipline. The coaster thing is not just a hypothetical - it was exactually the reason for the first spanking I gave my husband after this epiphany. When I told him he was getting a hard punishment for not using a coaster, he tried to downplay it, saying, “Seriously? Just for a coaster?” But I held firm. By the time the punishment was over, his burning backside made it crystal clear that the issue wasn’t the coaster—it was his disobedience to a direct order. I explained that disobedience, no matter how small the context, would always be met with strict consequences, no leniency, no mercy. The same applied to disrespectful behaviors, like leaving messes for me to clean up. Whether or not there was a preexisting rule, those actions showed a lack of respect for me and our dynamic, and that warranted firm discipline.
This shift in mindset eliminated my second-guessing. It gave me the clarity and confidence to act decisively when I felt annoyed or disrespected, knowing that I was addressing the root cause, not just the surface issue. It also aligned perfectly with my husband’s desire for stricter boundaries, even if he wasn’t thrilled about the consequences in the moment. Over time, this approach has strengthened our DD dynamic, making it more consistent and fulfilling for both of us.
Thoughts on any of this?
Have a great week.
When we agreed to live in an FLR with DD household, before the 'start date', privately, we each made a list of what we expected from ourselves, each other and the relationship itself. Then together compared the lists and from that hammered out our 'agreement'. This worked out well and over the 20 years we have been together, it has been tweaked a bit, but the basic concepts are still relevant and in force. Now to this weeks topic. This procedure was also used for spankable offenses. We each made a list and then compared the lists. At first it was quite detailed, explaining the offense and each had 3 levels of severity. Usually the punishment was bumped to the next level for repeating that offense. That lasted quite some time and at the beginning of the FLR, I was spanked often due to training etc. As I learned her ways, wants and desires, the punishments dwindled. It came to the point when we both decided and agreed to institute a maintenance program. Being methodical about it, we both made notes and compared them. One important factor was the scheduling of the maintenance session. We were living a busy life and could not anchor a specific day for maintenance. I think I explained this scheduling a few weeks ago in this blog. But for anyone who missed it... In addition to 'life happenings', we did not want sessions on consecutive days nor to allow too much time to 'slip by' between sessions. We came up with a system using dice. At the end of the maintenance spanking, I would toss a single die. We then add '1' to the number rolled and that became the number of days until the next spanking. If an occurrence happened, we simply move to the next day. A need for a discipline spanking did not alter the maintenance schedule. I simply would get spanked twice that day. Now for the goals of the maintenance program which speaks to the points in this weeks blog, especially the concern about too many spankings for minor infractions. We came up with 3 goals... 1. To reinforce our roles and emphasize who is always 'in charge'. 2. To keep me mindful of what lies in store for poor behavior or rule breaking. 3. To act as a 'catch all' for the many minor infractions which may not have warranted a discipline spanking at the time.
ReplyDeleteI apologize for the length of this dissertation. I guess I got carried away. Should I be spanked for that??? Nah, to minor of an offense.
I like comments in the dissertation style. Very helpful.
DeleteThe exchange and comparison of lists sounds like a great process.
I suppose, thinking about things, since we had spankings for other reasons already, there was no need to invent ever pettier reasons to give spankings. With J., if I wanted to do it for other reasons, we just called a spade a spade and I did it for other reasons.
ReplyDeleteWith our (and I suppose everyone's) time together being finite, it made no sense to constantly invent reasons to be angry, because all it would do is lower my tolerance threshold to the point where I might have become angry with J. just for breathing! Any human should be seeking to raise their patience threshold, rather than lower it!
L.
In my opinion, spanking for trivial annoyances is a bad idea, and risks turning the wife into a nag rather than a standard setter for proper behavior.
Delete
ReplyDeleteI’d offer a slightly different viewpoint on the coaster incident. All of us here are - or would like to be - in DD relationships, but as we’ve discussed many times in the past, some are in FLRs and some are not. I think that as described, the incident fits in an FLR, but I can still see it being punishable in a non-FLR. B and I have discussed this also in the past and have agreed that we are not FLR, but some while ago I was spanked for forgetting on a number of occasions to put appointments in the family calendar. If we used coasters and I continually forgot to use one, I can imagine it could result in punishment. However, not being in an FLR, this would not be about disobedience. As Mrs Terrapin says, it would be about respect; not direct respect for B’s instructions, but respect for us and our surroundings. So failing to put things in the calendar just creates the possibility of conflicts which could be a nuisance for everyone, failing to use a coaster may end up causing a wood table to be marked, and so on. B might point out my failing once, or suggest I do something, but there shouldn’t be repeated instructions. It’s also possible that she wouldn’t have said anything at all but that I should be more thoughtful about what I’m doing or not doing. So I guess the point I’m trying to make is that if we fail to live up to reasonable expectations, even in the absence of specific instructions, we should be held accountable for it. TG
This is why I think the line between what is and is not an FLR is hard to draw objectively and mostly in the eye of the beholder. I do agree with you that "obedience" as a concept seems to fit more within FLR than DD, though as your comment points out, a concept like "respect" may get to the same end (no pun intended). It's all very contextual. One point that may be implicit in your focus on "reasonable expectations" is that being punished for not living up to them doesn't make your relationship an FLR, because the expectation is mutual. But, to the extent the expectations are more like directions set by the wife and followed by the husband, then it is more FLR-like.
DeleteIn the end, FLR is just a trickily fluid concept. There probably is a lot of overlap in how most of us think of Femdom. That doesn't mean we all see it in the same qualitative way; some may get turned on by it and for others it's a turn-off. But, we probably all have a fairly similar understanding of it's major features. That doesn't seem to be the case with FLR. As I've noted when talking about this with Alan, he and I seem to describe our respective relationships in pretty similar ways, yet he says he's not in an FLR, while I think I'm in a lite version of one. In the end, I think what it really boils down to is he has a somewhat negative view of the term and I have a somewhat positive one and, as a result of those differing emotional connotations, we see are seemingly similar relationship styles as being in different categories.
Mrs. Terrapin viewpoint is exactly right in my opinion, and I will be suggesting it to Cindy. Two days ago I raised my voice in a discussion (argumet) and Cindy reacted by stating firmly, bare your bottom and turn around. She picked up the wood soup spoon and whacked away until she felt satisfied. I was raising and lowering on my feet trying to lessen the spanks to any one spot, so I will have to work on staying completely in one place. This is precisely what I have asked her to do, and although I did not want to be spanked then, it was the absolute right thing to do. All was calm and great the rest of that day.
ReplyDeleteAfter we discuss
Forgetting something she asked me to do , or for thinking something is not important, is actually defiance of what she requested. A long time ago I learned to always put the toilet seat down after peeing. A small gesture of thoughtfulness for her.
After we discuss what Mrs. Terrapin wrote, I think there will be more frequent spankings in our house.
Thanks for sharing, and writing this post, and start getting better by not doing dumb things. Wait (and I hope you readch that age and more) until you are in your late 70's like we are.
bottoms up
Red
Spankings for small things (or things that seem small to you) was what I wrote about in the last post on Aug 10 and again on Aug 13. While we don't have what I consider an FLR, we do have a vibrent DD lifestyle, centered mostly around our home life. At the risk (or certainty) of repeating myself, the vast majority of the spankings I recieve are for what I consider little things, but those little things really bother her. The 2 most common offences are leaving the toilet seat up and not pushing in my chair. While she no longer gives me regular maintenance spankings, we do have regular check ins, and I will often get spankings for past offenses I consider petty. Works for me, and I completely agree with Mrs.Tarrapin's philosophy in that regard. I also agree with Dan that being spanked more often provides a benifet for both parties, which are keeping him more humble while increasing her confidence. In addition to that, ongoing spankings generally help keep DD alive.
ReplyDeleteI was spanked again for shouting today. (ie two days after the last time) A little lecture this time with what happens when you shout? I get spanked! Do you think you should be shouting? No! Bare your bottom and bend over, and the wooden spoon was extremely effective. Problem solved, and we are both happy. I will learn bottoms up REd
ReplyDeleteRed,
DeleteA majority of my punishments now come by me raising my voice or my attitude. I do agree w Tom to some extent above. I’m wondering if punishing for smaller things, all the tim,
would turn your wife into a nag. My wife has always been resentful to some extent above women who nag their husbands. On a side note though, I’m type an and a bit OCD about dishes in the sink and doors closed ect. So I am never punished for those things as I don’t ever forget to put the toilet seat down. We have soft close seats. Easy breezy.
T
On the whole FLR vs DD spectrum, I agree that each of us seem to have an individual take on it. Having said that, I am absolutely onboard with Dan's statement above: "... to the extent the expectations are more like directions set by the wife and followed by the husband, then it is more FLR-like." I'm not sure exactly where the line is between DD and FLR (if one even exists), but I am pretty sure that the distinction is more who is making the rules than in what the rules are, how they are being enforced, severity of punishments, who initiated the relationship or a myriad of other factors.
ReplyDeleteWe have talked many times before about "small things," but usually it is more from the angle of "there aren't really any small things, because small things ultimately are the source of most big problems, and if you fix the small things, the big things tend to take care of themselves" or something like that. And we have also discussed at length the seeming unfairness of real punishments for small things, how that might be a problem for one partner or the other, and so on. By the way, I totally buy in to that perspective. But I really liked the different take on small things this time. Nobody is getting spanked for not using a coaster. Rather someone is being spanked for disrespecting his wife or their belongings, for disobeying a clear instruction, or perhaps for carelessness, which is almost certainly part of a bigger pattern and which can ultimately cause all manner of problems.
Also, I loved everything Mrs. Tarrapin wrote. I agree 100%
-ZM
Regarding the seeming unfairness of real punishments for small things, you made a point a long time ago that has stuck with me, i.e. that as grown men, any spanking that is going to be effective is probably going to have to be pretty hard. Little boys can learn lessons from a few quick hand swats on a clothed bottom. That's not the way it works with a full-grown man. That was another part of Mrs. Terrapin's post -- her learning how hard a spanking a grown man should be given.
DeleteGiven all the positive reaction to her comments, wouldn't it be great to know whether Mrs. Terrapin was actually a woman and actually in a DD relationship? ;-)
I would like to think she is a woman in a DD relationship, but my cynical mind reminds me of what the better business bureau used to say, "if it seems to good to be true, it probably is." In the end, she could be a disciplinary wife, an AI chatbot, or a fat guy living in his mom's basement, and what was written is still equally on point.
Delete-ZM
All very true. I do wonder how credible a job an AI chatbot would do with real DD subject matter. I've found that AI does a generally poor job on subjects that are very niche, probably because there isn't a ton of content to work with. Male/female DD is such a very small niche, I kind of doubt a chatbot could fake it without leaving lots of signs. But, who knows?
DeleteDan,
DeleteBecause of her one post, I have to agree with Zm, I think she is in fact a guy. The post to me is what everyone of us would want consistently and in the real world, it just doesn’t occur. I consistently have talks with my wife about being stricter with me and my mouth and attitude. It’s a big deal for me to change. I don’t have to get animated or raise
My voice to make a point.
My wife was in an abusive verbal relationship prior. I’m the complete opposite here ex, with
The expectation of getting animated during a discussion. This is something I have worked on with patience, but DD has helped drive the point home. She despises when I raise my voice and she has started to punish for it. I’ve encouraged her to thrash the hell out of me when I do it. The only point I made a few weeks ago, was when my wife was wrong, and wouldn’t admit it.
T
For me, the fact that she only posted once points to her being a woman. The guys who pretend to be women stick around for weeks, until they fuck up and doing something that outs them as a man. But, there's no way to really know. I do think some couples pull off the consistency thing. Spanked Cowboy seems to be there, and I think it was true for Kay and Jerry, and I'm sure it's true for others, even if it's a common complaint for many.
DeleteThis is a point I think some people who aren't wired for DD have a hard time understanding -- you can genuinely want to change a habit, yet for whatever reason your willpower alone isn't enough to do it. That's where *her* willpower comes in . . .
Absolutely right about genuinely wanting to change a habit but not having enough willpower. If I could have changed it, I already would have.
DeleteWhere DD can change everything is that it provides more sure and immediate consequences. Most of the things that I struggle with provide immediate, certain gratification, though they often carry long term negative consequences. So for this, immediate too often wins out over long term. If my wife is holding a paddle, the near term equation changes dramatically, and the threat of an immediate consequence makes it much easier to make better choices!
-ZM
That's a really good point about DD transforming the term of consequences from long-term to more immediate, and that can make all the difference.
DeleteDan, couldn't agree more! Everything she said made so much sense, and those sentiments have never been expressed more clearly. These days, we have to guess if it's AI or an actual person. I like to believe Mrs. Terrapin is a real DD wife, and wish she would post again.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that makes me think she was, indeed, a woman: She didn't stick around long. The fakers seem to take me years to shake off.
DeleteSometimes my wife is not focused on my behavior issues a couple of days were going somewhere and I brought up a small thing that I was sure we had misinterpreted some instructions. She agreed but insisted I told that the wrong way was the correct way to do it. I'm positive that she was the one that misinterpreted the instructions in the first place. It was a minor misunderstanding but I argued that I did not tell her that. Now she just didn't say anything because she thought it was a little thing and not worth getting upset about. I thought about and realized it wasn't about who was right. The issue was disrespect. She's in charge and if she says i said something it doesn't matter if I did or not it's not my place to argue the next day she said something about my driving and I again had a come back as to why I was tailgating. She let it slide again! It was like was ignoring my behavior so it frustrated me and I started to test her by being a real brat. Last night she said im tired of you picking at me and I was sent to the corner but nothing about arguing with her. This morning while we were talking I reminded her of the arguments and she said she was so distracted with some other things that she didn't think about punishing me because they were small things but she agreed that arguing is not a small issue and warranted a spanking. After she got out of the shower I was put over pillows on the bed and paddled so hard that I couldn't stay in position which made it worse. I my opinion there are no small things. If talked about her expectations and a top expectation is no arguing ever.
ReplyDeleteThat would be a hard rule for me. I made my career arguing for a living. And, my wife isn't perfect; there are times she is factually wrong about things. So, for us, the focus is more on *how* the argument takes place, i.e. isn't caustic and sarcastic (which I can be at times) or fact-based and respectful
DeleteDan,
DeleteI’m right with you on if my wife is wrong, that’s where I get upset about things and get animated. If I try and correct her on something, she gets upset and thinks I’m yelling. I may not be yelling, but upset that my viewpoint or her being correct doesn’t seem to matter.
T
I absolutely *hate* it when, in an argument, Anne misrepresents something I said as yelling, when most of the time I'm the calmer one. Not always -- I have gotten one spanking for an argument in which I was definitely more animated than her and, frankly, picked a fight over something without giving her any way to know the subject was an issue for me. But, from the beginning of our relationship, she's been more willing to cross lines in arguments than I usually am.
DeleteFirstly, thank you to everyone who participates in this blog, and to Dan for running this wealth of knowledge and providing a space for like-minded folk to learn more about this. Honestly, the posts and comments here have helped me tremendously, and I feel less alone. I have been following and reading this blogs for over a year now, and finally have worked up the courage to comment.
ReplyDeleteFor some background, I am coming out of a 17-year marriage right now. In our first year, she caught me looking at spanking videos, and so I came out with everything that I understood about it during that time. I wasn’t aware then that I was seeking that maternal yet strict DD lifestyle, I just knew I wanted to be spanked, and it HAD to be her, because she was my wife and (again, unknowingly at the time) I viewed her as my maternal “mentor” if you will. So, we dabbed, and she tried. We made a contract, and she spanked, but in less than 6 months it was over. She couldn’t get past hurting me. So we stayed married for 16 more years. Anyways, I would ask every year or two, only to be told no. I don’t hold any anger towards her for it, but I never stopped wanting the F/M DD, FLR lifestyle.
And here I am now, I get to recreate myself in some manor, and I guess I have found my voice. What I would like to push to the group is something I have wondered and questioned for the better part of 2 years now. I want to understand this desire, to be punished, to be loved by someone like they are not my mom…but kinda act like it. So, I have been curious about the correlation between F/M DD and/or FLR and Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder (ADHD). And this particular post seemed relevant to the question given Dan’s comment:
“A bigger category for us—at least in terms of threatened spankings and, had it not been for my injury, probably actual spankings too—is carelessness and the kind of absentmindedness”
And Red’s:
“seemingly innocent behavior”
And so on. The post is riddled with words, behaviors, and thinking that align with the core symptoms associated with ADHD. Additionally, ADHD individuals are driven by the need to basically find dopamine hits, because their brain lacks the chemical in terms of standard availability. What I finds interesting for me (in comparison to say a “typical” person) is I know I am pushed by the balance of reward vs. consequence, but in a F/M DD and/or FLR dynamic, there is dopamine to be found at either end, and I learn only though consequence. So being held accountable with real, memorable punishment for “seemingly innocent behavior” speaks to me on a level that no other action would.
Anyways, sorry for the long post, but I am curious about any thoughts. Cheers!
First, welcome. (And, please use a name or initials so we know who you are when you post in the future)
DeleteSecond, I'm sorry that things didn't work out with your wife in terms of DD, and the marriage as a whole. It's great when men ask for this lifestyle and wife ultimate embraces it, but I also have genuine empathy for those who can't, not because they think it's weird or perverted but because they just can't get into hurting someone else. In the past, I would have found it impossible to be a "switch", disciplining my wife, as I had a very deep-seated aversion to "hurting" women. It truly made me ill to think about it. I feel like that's changed over the last few years as I've come to really get that there are women who want DD for the same reasons we do. But, I still get how big the "ask" is for some partners who are asked to do this.
Third, though you don't mention any efforts find a new partner who will be into this, I certainly hope it works out that for you.
Finally, I'm not a psychologist, psychiatrist or medical professional, and I seriously doubt there has been any research correlating DD/FLR and ADHD, as there is barely anything out there about DD at all. But I do get why you would be curious about whether there might be a correlation. I grew up at a time and place where ADHD was not a known thing, but had it been known, I probably would have been diagnosed with it. My mother has always said that I was never a "bad" kid but that I was extremely high energy, to the point that when I got in trouble it was almost always for doing something that put myself in danger. Virtually every teacher I ever had commented that I was one of those kids who couldn't sit down, ever. Based on things like proficiency tests, SAT scores, LSAT scores, class rankings, etc., I'm a pretty smart guy, yet I check all the boxes for common ADHD traits, including (from a quick Google search: Failing to pay close attention to details or making careless mistakes in school or work; .trouble staying focused on tasks, failing to follow through on instructions or finish chores and duties, poor organization skills (which is amazing, given the size of teams I managed), avoiding tasks that need steady mental effort, and losing essential items like keys or tools; and easily distracted and forgetful in daily routines. It's probably no accident that my longest-lived recreational activities are motorcycle and skiing, both of which involve motion at speed.
I think it's also not an accident that when I think of the overall goal of DD, I tend to talk about "boundaries" and "guardrails", because my view of myself (backed up by 50+ years of history) is of someone constantly speeding in every direction, with a big risk of running right off the road unless some external force nudges me back in line.
So, I can't offer any kind of study or scientific analysis of whether there is a correlation between ADHD and wanting a DD and/or FLR relationship, but it makes sense to me on a personal level. Just last night, Anne and I talked about how frustrating this hiatus is, because we both want to explore more of the "strict mom" dynamic, with it's focus not just on spanking but on laying down rules, setting expectations, etc. So, I totally get it when you say, "I want to understand this desire, to be punished, to be loved by someone like they are not my mom…but kinda act like it."
Adem,
DeleteLike Dan above, I’m really sorry it didn’t work out in your marriage as well. It takes a lot of direct conversation and very humbling moments to bring DD to your spouses attention. I think the erotic spanking we had at the start of our relationship helped transition into DD. My wife like yours, didn’t want to hurt me. The DWC helped her with this. I explained my background to my wife and how my Mother and a few others were no nonsense disciplinarians. They would spank you at the drop of a hat if disrespectful or out of line. It actually caused my wife to open up about her “perfect” childhood. Her Father was such a great and kind man. Well it turns out that both of her parents paddled her and her siblings. She despised her Mother for years because of it. I thought that it would affect our DD relationship. I asked her if it would bring back any sort of PtSD connection. She stated that it’s not my bottom getting beaten . She has seen improvement and with a lot of communication, trials and tribulations, it’s worked for us. It has not been perfect. Dan, after a romantic night in bed, I brought up to her for the first time maintenance thrashings. It’s something I was against, thrashing for the sake of a thrashing. As I have become better or as they say continue to watch my P’s and Q’s, a weekly session to keep me on the straight and narrow could benefit. I also realize that my attitude stinks after a while of not getting punished. We agreed that a month is way to long and we have to figure out how to approach it without it becoming stale. I explained to her that I need to be kept in line and this seems the right way forward. We will see how it translates.
T
Something that's been an interesting positive development related to me being laid up (probably the only positive) is Anne has been tracking offenses to be dealt with later. In the past, keeping track of things that had pissed her off was a real weak point. If more than a day or two went by, it was forgotten. I think this accident has made her (a) realize how much *she* wants the DD relationship, regardless of what it does for me; and (b) not even having the possibility of doing it in the near term has caused her to get into tracking and documenting things more.
DeleteWhat a great development and it seems like since you both have retired, Anne seems to be onboard with holding you accountable for your actions.
DeleteT
Timing is everything, I suppose. It's too bad that we didn't manage to build up more consistency and really get into the DD aspects of our lives earlier on, as I really could have used strict accountability in my 30s and 40s. Not to mention my 20s, but I didn't even know about DD, and who knows whether I would have accepted it had someone introduced me to it. Now that I'm in my 50s, I'm far from perfect, but the biggest problem areas have certainly diminished, particularly over the last year or two.
DeleteI did know about DD in my twenties. I’m not sure it was DD then, but DWC provided what I needed. I was a hot head and needed to be reigned in. My wife at the time had zero desire to spank me. She saw me as the alpha dog and I would get away with things that I don’t get away with now. My mouth got me in trouble all the time and I said things that were foolish. This is when I sought out a disciplinarian,who helped, but as we know there is no love behind the thrashing. She was wonderful and different than what I see today. When I met my wife, who is older than me, she would not put up with my mouth. She would correct me and coming from a verbally abusive relationship, would not
Deleteput up with my crap. As with most guys, after some erotic spanking, I brought up DD and here we are today. My only change would have been bringing it up to her earlier in our relationship. We’ve been together a long time and I should have brought it up earlier. She has more than made up for it.
T
Adem, good on you for having the courage to share your situation with us! Like you, I find this to be a unique place to share real feelings about this lifestyle that most people don't understand, and few are even aware of. The experience of getting married, asking her to try it out, and eventually, her rejecting it, is exactly what I went through. Unlike you, I had such a need to be spanked, I finally found professionals to do it. It cost me about $400 a month, and went on for many years. Even though it wasn't DD, the women that I saw once a week understood the psychology of adult spanking, and were very good at giving long, hard, spankings. I had PTSD from war, and discovered spanking was the only reliable way to calm me down and help with depression. I haven't considered spanking to be a method of treating ADHD, but it is certainly a possibility. Anyway, my wife eventually got used to it, but she obviously didn't like it, and it was a bone of contention between us for the rest of the marriage. When the marriage ended and I started getting serious with another women, I invited her to witness my getting a real, bare bottom spanking from a professional. It felt like a big risk, but I didn't want to hide it anymore. She had never heard of adult spanking as a sexual thing, but was interested, and asked the dom to spank her so she would understand how it felt. Fortunately, she liked it, and she learned how to spank from a professional. After a few years of using spanking as for play, I discovered this site, and we started our fascinating and very rewarding journey into FM DD. It is simply amazing how much it has completely improved all areas of my life, and our relationship as well. She now has a more sensitive partner who is more polite and considerate of her needs, which is new for her. While she is not a natural dom, she is on board with making sure my needs are taken care of and she helps keep me in line. My hope for you is that you can find a mature, strong, woman who will understand you, and give you what you need as well. Welcome, and good luck.
ReplyDeleteNorton,
DeleteI too saw a professional disciplinarian prior to my wife. She was an older women. At the time I was in my 20’s. She punished me like my Mother did growing up. She understood the dynamic of a maternal punishment. If she were still alive, I can’t say I would not be inclined to see her on occasion. I would not fall into the category of AdHD but maybe a bit OCD when it comes to cleanliness and things in their proper place.
My wife is a bit of a slob, not dirty but she could care less about a shirt laying or a dish in the sink.
T
Professional disciplinarians, UK versions, are very much a positive experience when you find the right practitioners, and I have been very lucky in that regard over the years. However they are in my opinion for a different level and need than can be obtained by being chastised by Mrs GL. Cheers GLM.
DeleteThe only issue I see with today’s disciplinarians, is they seem to be youngand hot. I would have a hard time visiting a women younger than me for discipline.
DeleteIt does not work for me. I would need someone in their 60’s. I’m
sure they are few and far in between. Thank God my wife has no problem whipping my bottom.
There are probably younger women who could do it, but I'm sure they would be few and far between. There just aren't many who have that kind of gravitas before their 40s.
DeleteDan, it's interesting to learn that we share everything you described as ADHD traits, as well as our shared long term passions for motorcycles and skiing. Until now, at this late stage of life, it never occurred to me that I might have ADHD. I have had all those problems you mentioned, such as loosing important things, have vastly improved since we started practicing DD. R.e. the topic of this post, we have definately replaced maintenance spankings with frequent spankings for small things. It's a good solution to make DD more spontaneous, which is the opposite of maintenance. It also encourages better behavior with more immediate consequences for breaking rules. Lastly, it gives the lady of the house more choice to spank when she feels like it, instead of when she is obligated.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I didn't really the draw the connection either, until now.
DeleteThe above post was mine.
ReplyDeleteI too am strongly ADHD, but like everyone else, I came along too early for it to be diagnosed. I also have been into skiing and dirt bikes since I was a child. Sadly, skiing has moved to the side in recent years, but I loved it so very much.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there is a connection between ADHD and being drawn to DD, but I could certainly believe it.
-ZM
Yeah, even before this accident, my knees were starting to shift the cost-benefit analysis on skiing. Honestly, I also just got lazy as I got older, and skiing takes so much effort off the ski slope. Packing up equipment, trudging across an impossibly large parking lot carrying skis and poles, freezing your ass off on a lift in high winds . . . I could put up with that inconvenience and discomfort way better when I was younger. Probably because I was usually drinking. :-)
DeleteExactly. Skiing is fun, but unless you are going to a resort for a week where you can practically ski out the front door, skiing is really quite a pain in the butt. Including driving and all the things you described, you spend all day, from early in the morning often until late at night, for maybe an actual hour or two on the slopes and quite a few more than that in lift lines and on lifts.
Delete-ZM
I do, however, still like hanging out in lodges for an apres-skiing beer. But, I've figured out I can get that by volunteering to pick up the rest of my family at the end of the day..
DeleteBoth of you should consider exploring Nordic ( cross country) skiing - much less equipment and less expensive equipment,fantastic aerobic exercise and a lot of fun
DeleteAlan
I definitely should try that. In recent years, I've also done some snowshoeing. We have a ton of BLM land within a couple of blocks of our condo, with an extensive trail system.
DeleteI used to be an avid skier when younger. I blew out my knee at work and never returned to the slopes. I agree hanging out in the lodges and sharing an afternoon bottle of wine was a favorite past time of mine. My wife doesn’t ski so that went by the way side. Plus as I aged, I can’t stand the cold. I enjoy winter during the holidays and then come January, I’m over it. We head south for vacation! we have friends that plan to retire in Maine or Vermont. My response was, well you can come and visit me ha ha.
DeleteT
You and I are a lot alike. I love Halloween and Christmas, then I'm pretty much done with winter. I do spend a lot of time in the mountains during the winter but much prefer the other three seasons.
DeleteDan wrote:": a ton of BLM land within a couple of blocks of our condo" -- If snow is part of that , I would be out there at the first flake. BTW,in my experience snowshoeing is also great aerobics but much more work and much less fun than the skis
DeleteAlan
I'm able to stage my winter walks/hikes in way that cuts down on some of the hikes and often doesn't even require snowshoes. If the snow isn't too deep, cross-country skiers often make a path over established trails, tamping down the snow. I venture out with some good waterproof hiking books, with gaiters to keep snow off my jeans. On a few occasions, I've stepped off the trail and sunk in the snow up to my ass, but usually it works pretty well.
DeleteFor me, the key aspect of DD is certainty. Knowing that if I do X, then Y will happen is the very best behavioiur modifier. Although I have explained this to my wife many times, we are still in a 'phase' where she has to feel the urge to punish (physically) rather than engaging in all those other routes that long term partners can use to 'punish' each other. She says sometimes that she just finds it hard to make that decision or other times she is too emotionally engaged in whatever behaiours or dispute that we are in, to revert to spanking. Often what happens is that the situation passes, emotions cool and then she will declare that a spanking has been earned, is necessary and she gets on with it.
ReplyDeleteImmediate punishments rarely happen, but there is some ceratinty that some behaviours will without dount, earn a spanking. I am working with her on some behaviours that are 'zero tolerance' so that if they occur then a spanking must take place as soon as possible. That removes the element of her having to make a decision at the time, as we will already have agreed on the appropriate action should that specific behaviour happen. TB
I know many people think immediacy is the key factor, but I think for me, certainty is even more important. For those bad habits and repeated carelessness where DD has not made a difference, I think it's far more about the fact that punishment often doesn't happen at all, rather than its timing. Of course, the two are related -- a delayed spanking is less likely to happen. Anne seems to be exploring certainty now, with the list of offenses she's been tracking during this period when I'm laid up. On the one hand, I do think that a delayed by certain punishment may not include much real contrition on my part at the time the spanking actually happens. On the other, it sends the message that certain behaviors will result in punishment, period, which I do think is very important.
Delete"She says sometimes that she just finds it hard to make that decision or other times she is too emotionally engaged in whatever behaviors or dispute that we are in, to revert to spanking." Anne says that when we are in the middle of an argument, she often just doesn't think about spanking as an option for ending it. Honestly, I think during a real argument, that's probably a good thing. When the argument is real and about something important, I know a spanking isn't going to change my view, and I doubt it's going to "clean the slate" for her either. Tempers need to cool a bit for spanking to be productive.
Dan, what you describe used to be the case for us also. Now, there are no more arguments, because she has learned that if we seem to be drifting towards an argument, all she has to do to stop it is ask me "Are you arguing with me?" My answer will inevitably be "No Ma'am!", because if I keep going, I will soon be over her lap, in which case I will then be much more motivated to see things from her perspective, once the paddeling begins. I am ok with that, as I have learned we can disagree about things in a civilized and polite manner, which is way better than arguing.
DeleteYou must be curious to have a peek at that list Ann is compiling Dan ....and how Ann plans on clearing it. Multiple spankings ?
DeleteI'm thinking of it more as a short-term maintenance program, serving the purpose of getting things back on track and renewing the habit.
DeleteNorton,
DeleteThat’s where DD is heading with us. I need to be able to have a rationalized and civilized discussion when I’m upset about something she has done or not done. This is something we have discussed and she had tremendously improved upon. I need her to be stern and punish when this occurs, otherwise I won’t learn. Like Anne, she has become better recently. It will be interesting once you’ve healed,
how strict Anne will be with you.
T
My wife administers a spanking at the beginning of the week, then a second one half-way through the week, to ensure good behavior while visiting family that day. Maybe once every couple of months I get one for discipline for bad behavior. The maintenance and the "preemptive" keep the dynamic on track so that it is ready when she needs to discipline me. She is more likely to follow through this way. E
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt that you are right that things like maintenance and preemptive spankings make following through on actual discipline more likely. Are those kinds of "no reason" spankings less severe than disciplinary spankings for you?
DeleteShe spanks a little harder when it's discipline, but it's not much different from the others.
Delete