“It's very difficult to make a 100% turnaround. It's tough when you actually do exhibit patterns of bad behavior. You need to have a very strong support system of people who are willing to keep you in your place if you're going to overcome these things.” - Daniel Cormier
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the Disciplinary Wives who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.
I hope you all had a great week. Mine was uneventful, yet I felt atypically good. Like maybe I’m finally turning the corner on the string of bad luck and bad health trends that started around Thanksgiving of last year. It’s been a tough few months, but maybe I’m moving past it.
It isn’t an entirely accidental change of trajectory. For the last couple of weeks, I’ve been doing a better job of taking care of myself in terms of diet, exercise, meditation, etc. It’s amazing how treating yourself just slightly better can make a big difference in your mood and feelings of wellbeing. Yet, most of the time it takes a conscious choice to get out of our self-created ruts, and maybe some external motivation. More on that below.
Thanks to those of you who gave advice and recounted personal experience with caning. As I said, I don’t really like doing posts about particular instruments, I decided to be a little self-indulgent, given that we are experimenting with the cane now but have very little experience with it.
One interesting takeaway from
the discussion is that the cane may be the only instrument in all of DD world
that seems to require a particular degree of force and accuracy that can only
be generated through a combination of practice and confidence. Anyway, I know it may have been a topic with limited
audience appeal, so thanks for bearing with me.
A couple of weeks ago, on the topic of fantasies, TB offered this:
I often fantasise that she is ‘always on’ DD wise so that there is zero doubt for either of us on the ‘if …. Then’ construct. In other words, zero tolerance for any boundary crossing. And that every session was ‘merciless’ - hard, relentless and painful. (I’ve given up trying to work out why I want this). I am convinced that my behaviour would quickly improve and that we would both be happier/even more content.
I have tried to articulate this to her, and she says she gets it and is supportive, but we quickly revert to our ‘normal’ DD where I ‘get away’ with behaviours and then there is a reckoning when she’s finally had enough.
Seems like a simple change to me but as yet I have failed to get this fantasy realised…. TB
I share TB’s fantasy of a much more strictly enforced set of boundaries. Though, it's more than a fantasy. It's a genuine hope that Anne takes things in that direction at some point.
I’ve often said I want more consistency, but I think what TB is suggesting goes beyond mere consistency. Instead, it’s about having a fairly rigorous set of rules or imposed standards, and then a very strict approach to enforcing them. In other words, it’s about tight boundaries and “zero tolerance” when it comes to enforcement.
The last time I did a topic on “zero tolerance” was about four years ago. Although the discussion was generally good, there seemed to be a lot of talking past each other. The source of the problem seemed to be that some thought I was defining “zero tolerance” as getting spanked or otherwise punished for every little thing.
That’s not what I’m talking about. Rather, I’m talking about getting spanked for everything that she sees as a significant problem or irritant and much more strictness and rigor in making sure those things actually do get punished.
It’s about not tolerating excuses or efforts to delay or avoid a spanking that has been earned.
And, while it is about consistency to some extent, it’s also about setting a generally higher bar for what both she and I expect of me.
So, in that sense while it is not about getting spanked for every little thing, it probably is about getting spanked for a greater number of things than I do now. But, in part that is because, if I’m honest, there are a lot of things I do that irritate or anger her, or that either she sees as a problem or we both do, yet I get away with doing those things over and over again. Sometimes it's because I offer excuses or a delay becomes it not happening at all. But, sometimes she has said she is going to be strict about something but doesn't follow through.
In the twenty years we’ve been doing DD, we’ve never really had a “zero tolerance” approach, whether with respect to a particular issue or the relationship as a whole.
The thing that I seem to do most often that angers her the most is leaving the house and failing to lock the doors when I leave, or sometimes accidentally leaving the garage door open either when I leave or when I go into the house. Because it is something that pisses her off, and does so fairly regularly, I often think she will finally get fed up and impose a “zero tolerance” approach for that one issue, it never really happens. She tolerates way too many excuses, or too often lets me by without any excuse, probably because there was a fairly long time between incidents.
Interestingly, while I often bemoan my lack of willpower, I have successfully imposed a few “zero tolerance” rules on myself. Tobacco use is probably the best example. In high school and college, I was a regular tobacco user, and nicotine has been my one and only true physical addiction. I tried to quit several times, and a few times I succeeded for a few weeks. But, I always started again. When I finally quit for good, I went cold turkey, And, in thirty years I’ve never had another cigarette. I just can’t let myself do it, because I know that if I were to have one cigarette on a special occasion, a week later I would be having “just one” a day, then one would become three, then three would become a pack-a-day habit.
I conquered my nicotine addiction before we were into DD, but I suspect that one or more of my aborted attempts at ending that addiction might have been successful had I had a strict Disciplinary Wife giving me some additional motivation. However, the habit and the physical addiction were so strong, it probably would have taken a “zero tolerance” approach.
Although I suspect ending deeply rooted habits and addictions might require something like a “zero tolerance” approach, I’m similar to TB in wanting “smaller” things also to be subject to very strict discipline because small things can be big stressors in a relationship or can have a big cumulative impact on your quality of life.
A good example for me is carelessness. Everyone is careless from time to time, but part of my identity has always revolved around risk taking and/or being cavalier about consequences. And, I’m not very detail oriented. I know I would be happier if I avoided the multiple times a year that I do something stupid from sheer lack of attention. And, our bank account would be better for it.
One challenge with a “zero tolerance” approach to things like carelessness, however, is it often happens when Anne isn’t there. Thus, having her address them would be dependent on me self-reporting, and my track record on that is mixed at best.
Most of my discussion about this so far has been about whether a “zero tolerance” approach would be efficacious for changing behavior for the better. That was also the focus when I last did this topic back in 2021.
With four years of increasing self-awareness, however, I realize that my attraction to zero tolerance is about more than changing my behavior and the benefits I think that would bring. Rather, I fantasize about it/hope for it, because part of me wants the intense feelings that I think would go along with it. In short, part of me is morbidly attracted to being under my wife’s stern hand to a much greater extent than I am now.
I’m not under any illusion that a “zero tolerance” approach would be anything but incredibly challenging, both emotionally and in terms of perhaps having a perpetually sort ass for whatever time it too for my behavior to improve to her satisfaction. I suspect that I would be resentful or angry much of the time it was happening, though that anger might be directed at myself. I can't find it now, but in the last year or so a commenter here talked about a period in which his wife became super strict in holding him accountable on a couple of behavioral issues, to the point that he was getting spanked almost daily. I recall him describing how hard it was, and that a big part of the emotional challenge was feeling like a screw-up who couldn’t get his act together to avoid being spanked so often.
I’m sure I would feel that way for a while if my wife ever did become super strict and “zero tolerance” in her approach. Yet, part of me clearly is attracted to the prospect of being humbled in that way and to being subject to that level of rigorous control. And, while I suspect it would be super challenging as it was happening, it also likely would be incredibly attractive and stimulating after the fact.
Have you ever been subject to a “zero tolerance” approach in your DD relationship? If so, was it about a particular issue, or was it a broader approaching dealing with a wider range of behavior. How did it make you feel? How did it make her feel? If you haven’t experienced that sort of super strict approach, do you want to?
For the wives, is a “zero tolerance” approach appealing? Or, does it seem burdensome? Is it easier to take an approach of punishing every time something happens, or do you place more value on having the discretion to determine whether to let something slide? If you are attracted to “zero tolerance” but haven’t implemented it, why not?
Have a great week.
This should prove to be a popular topic, as many of us have expressed a desire for more consistent strictness and accountability. Often it seems like life just gets in the way. Also, she might not always be in the mood. A few years ago she helped me reduce my drinking with very concistent hard spankings when I went over my limit. I did self report, and would always send her a text as soon as I realized it happened. The other major issue has been what she would consider reckless driving. We have different standards for what that is, but it basically means that if she is in the car and I make her nervous, I will be spanked. That definitely has changed my driving habits. There are several other things I do that irritate her, the main one is leaving the toilet seat up. She is not always consistent about spanking for that, and I have told her that if she was, it would probably not happen any more. I am grateful that she is able to spank me at all, as she isn't naturally bossy or dominant . Because she was quite consistent and strict about the things that really mattered to her, I don't get disciplinary spankings as often any more. However, I still get hard maintenance spankings every week, which I need, as they help to calm me down and remind us of our commitment to DD.
ReplyDeleteNorton, something that has surprised me is that life seems to get in the way nearly as often now as it did before we both retired. I had this vision/fantasy that after retirement, your time was always your own and there would be the opportunity for her to "take care of business" much more often without any distractions. That hasn't really proven to be the case, though to some extent that has because she hasn't really committed to that level of strictness. We talk about it all the time, but then there isn't follow-through on my part by doing things like reporting, on her part by spanking every time on things we've both agree should trigger that, and on both our parts for not following through on the check-in procedure we instituted for a short while last year. Though, in fairness, over the last six months, the biggest impediment has been medical conditions, whether our own or caring for family members.
DeleteI think this "life getting in the way" thing often has nothing to do with the busyness of life, though of course that is very much a thing as well. Rather, I think the key issue is that most of our wives - even those that really get off on the exercise of power - really can't get their heads around the idea that we really want and need them to be strict. As a result, even as they hear what we are saying, and even if they really like spanking us and showing their power, they are always afraid of overdoing it, because they just can't imagine wanting what we want. And while this is bad enough by itself, it is even further complicated by us visibly not wanting it at the time and needing it to feel non-consensual (of course actually consensually non-consensual).
Delete-ZM
-ZM
I suspect it is a combination of both, but I do think you're right that it's tough for people to embrace power, especially for women. My wife once had at least a temporary epiphany after reading the book The Hesitant Mistress. I'm not sure what exactly clicked, but she said that something did when she read about how the minds of men who are into this (though the book is really more D/s or Femdom than DD) work. She said that until then, she really couldn't understand why any many would want this for REAL and, as a result, in the back of her mind she always thought at some point I would decide I didn't want it. Worse, she felt like I was most likely to do that once she embraced it fully, thereby pulling the rug out from under her right after she committed.
DeleteIt's a hard thing to get past. I pointed out to her that we've been doing this 20+ years, and there has never been a point that I've even hinted that I wanted to end it.
“Zero tolerance” is often a struggle for my wife Sue to achieve - either because she is tired, too busy with life in general, or in pain with a recurring shoulder injury . However we both agree that zero tolerance is important if the goal is behaviour change. There is indeed a risk that it can lead to punishing every little thing. We have gotten around that by specifying a small number of highest priority problems for immediate action.
ReplyDeleteA good example is my tendency to lose control when I am upset and have an angry outburst. She will “start small” and spank at the very first sign of me raising my voice. And quite severely. The idea is that small problems can be prevented from developing into major blowups, often in mid-sentence.
Mike W.
That sounds like a great approach, particularly nipping something in the bud hard and fast before it cascades. The angry outbursts are a problem for me, too. I don't tend to stay angry or hold grudges, but I do have a fast temper that can lead me to blow up at something almost instantaneously. I'm definitely not a "slow burn" guy.
DeleteI like Mike W’s wife’s approach and it’s something I hope my wife gets to one day. I’m similar Dan in that I will raise my voice or get fired up and then I’m over it. I don’t have a slow burn. Mikes wife nips it in the bud immediately with a serious thrashing.
DeleteT
I think that zero tolerance is an outstanding concept but very difficult to implement over a long period of time. It is just too much to ask from your wife. It's a heavy responsibility, and I don't personally know any wife who isn't quite busy with other things in her life.
ReplyDeleteWhat I believe is more practical is to have a zero tolerance policy either for (i) a very, very small set of infractions or (ii) for a wider range of behaviors but for a very short period of time -- probably two weeks at the max. We've done the latter a couple times, but my wife thinks 9 days is plenty (late Friday through 2nd Sunday).
The parties can the regroup and discuss the results afterwards.
Graham
I agree it probably can't be an approach that applies to too many behaviors at once. On the short timeframe, I think the idea would be that the goal of zero tolerance is that, if a behavior is dealt with sternly and strictly enough, it will stop or be greatly diminished, so the timeframe sort of takes care of itself.
DeleteI agree, we are way too busy for my wife to address every little thing. It would be another full time job and frankly as much as she now enjoys thrashing me, she doesn’t want or has the need to be doing it daily.
DeleteI have to go back to our planning and drafting the rules for our FLR, including all aspects of discipline and punishment. Basically, we agree she has complete control over punishments. We both agreed that we would only use bare ass spankings for punishments. No corner time, no line writing, no lost privileges, etc as she felt most were childish. She, and she alone has control over when punishment is due, what to use, the duration, position, and force. The zero tolerance comes in at that point. There is no debate, no pleading, no input on my part at all. I am to immediately present my bare bottom and accept whatever punishment she deems necessary. This plan worked very well for several years before we instituted our maintenance program. I think she has 'allowed' some slippage in her determination if a spanking is needed, knowing minor infractions will be address in the next maintenance session. One of the 3 goals of the maintenance program is it will act as a 'catch all' for any minor infractions which she determined did not warrant a punishment spanking at the time. She does not specify these during our maintenance session, like saying, 'here are extra for last Wednesday when you.....'. I notice some maintenance sessions are harder or longer at times so I figure she is aware of the offenses that were not punished for when they were committed. All in all, I think things are working very well and I am spanked for all of my offenses at one time or another.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I've never been into the idea of maintenance, it does seem to be a good means of guaranteeing few bad deeds go unpunished.
DeleteMaintenance has proven to be very helpful in keeping DD and spanking ongoing. We have found that it is beneficial for me to keep a DD journal to record how I have been feeling, along with any offenses or rules that have been broken. That insures no issue will go unaddressed or unpunished. I will read it during every check in, which will help her assess how long and hard the maintenance spanking should be. We generally have 2 check ins a week, and the Monday morning check in always includes a spanking. Beginning the week with a maintenance spanking makes me look forward to Monday. We usually do another one on Thursday or Friday, which helps to reinforce boundaries during the weekend. Because of the frequent check ins and spankings, she is able to nip small problems in the bud, and the larger problems no longer exist. They also help insure good ongoing communication and intimacy. In this way, there will be zero offenses that are ignored, and it will be up to her to choose how severely she will deal with them.
DeleteGood to know others are using the 'Maintenance' Spanking' concept as we do. Ours works similar to Norton, but the 'check-ins' are in her mind. She recalls the unpunished infractions and addresses them during a maintenance session. I am usually oblivious to her mental tally sheet except I certainly know some maintenance spankings are much longer or harder than others. I will say, I prefer an immediate punishment spanking following the offense if at all possible. We both feel that method centralizes a punishment for a specific offense much more than an increased maintenance spanking at a later time. Perhaps that is why I am spanked immediately after an infraction, if possible, including others being present, away from home or even at the home of another.
DeleteWhile it's not formal , we have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to what was one of my worst faults that really irritated her , being interupting her when she is speaking , talking over her or just not listening to her.
ReplyDeleteI guess I spent enough time over her lap being lectured about that trait that I rarely do it now and I find myself consciously trying hard to avoid doing it now.
I know that if I do she will not let me get away with it and she also developed her own technique and forrcefullness to curb it by letting me know when I do it by saying something like , "Excuse me! I'm speaking!" and it shuts me down so a spanking isn't required.
I recall once when I did it in front of family and friends not long after she had spanked me for it she paused and said 'You're interupting me again.Didn't we just talk about that?"
It felt embarrassing and perhaps I'm more conscious about it because of how she quickly shuts me down now.
So the combination of spanking and her verbal correction has basically curbed that trait completely.
This is a great point -- zero tolerance doesn't necessarily mean a spanking every time. But, it means some kind of strong response, and it also means a consistent attitude reinforcing that some conduct won't be tolerated at all.
Delete
ReplyDeleteIn common with many here, I would like a zero tolerance environment and have certainly tried on a number of occasions to promote the idea. It runs up against two problems : one, as referenced by others, life gets in the way, she’s busy and it just becomes one more chore for her. The second one though is more interesting; she feels that instituting a zero tolerance policy removes her discretion and takes the power away from her. Part of her power is the SHE has the discretion to decide whether to spank or not in any particular case and she’s not going to give up that power. TG
I totally get the real life getting in the way thing. I sort of get the issue of wanting to preserve power by preserving discretion, but it also seems to indicate that maybe the behavior isn't that big a deal? To me, it always seems to be kind of like if, back when I was running teams, I had decided to exercise my authority by letting bad behavior or sloppy work product slide.
Delete"I sort of get the issue of wanting to preserve power by preserving discretion, but it also seems to indicate that maybe the behavior isn't that big a deal?" - Actually, for my wife and I this is largely true. She has often said that while she would like to change some things, if I never changed on any of it, she would be fine. I think that is because this is our second marriage, and her first marriage was pretty bad in many different ways, so comparatively, I look pretty good. Having said that, there are issues that she should care a lot more about, like health issues, since they are hugely important and also often urgent - whether they seem like it or not at the moment - since by the time health problems become manifest, it is often difficult or impossible to reverse the course.
Delete-ZM
By the way, "To me, it always seems to be kind of like if, back when I was running teams, I had decided to exercise my authority by letting bad behavior or sloppy work product slide" was an excellent, thought provoking, and very relatable example.
Delete-ZM
ZM,
DeleteWe are in the same boat per se. Second relationship and because I’m a thousand times better than the first, some things slide. I’m too anal about certain things, so the examples about leaving a door open, not taking out trash. Ect ect, don’t apply to me. My punishment is mainly for attitude and raising my voice. Her first relationship, he was verbally abusive. She told me, it’s a joy to have someone who treats her with love and respect. When I’m out of line, she now takes great satisfaction in whipping my bottom back into shape.
T
Unlike you guys, this is our first marriage, so she got the "joy" of dealing with the 20s version of me, which probably explains why when I brought her the idea of DD ten years later, when I hadn't changed all that much, she jumped on it.
DeleteWe are moving towards zero tolerance on single issues, the current one is my tendency to lose my temper (albeit briefly) when things don't go my way, Because I journal each day, even if she doesn't respond at the time then I will mention it in my journal. And I have agreed on this issue to become a willing participant in calling out that particular behaviour. Also relevant is that having tried the range of implements (mainly because of travelling and a degree of her arthritis which makes some implements less comfortable for her) her preferred implement is the strap (London Tanners Irish strap). She says it is comfortable to use, she likes the certainty of effect and she knows that I find it severe. Her only concern has been that it has tended to impact the left side more than the right, a problem she has resolved by insisting that I turn 180 deg on the bed for a second session each time. In effect that has meant a doubling of the length of punishment for the past few sessions, which have left me sore and uncomfortable for days.
ReplyDeleteThat level of severity and lasting soreness is having a real impact on how often I choose to allow my temper get the better of me. She has noticed and has made the connection and she has clearly indicated her satisfaction at how impactful (pun intended) this new approach is being. I am (so far) struggling with this new level of control. I'm not sure if I feel restricted or angry at myself but I felt distinctly sulky after the last couple of punishments. "Be careful what you wish for" is on my mind but I'm committed to staying with it for now.
BTW - excellent opening quote that exactly sums up some of the conversations that I have had with my wife. TB
As I said to Mike W., above, I too have big problems with keeping my temper in check, and it's a hard one to deal with because it hits so quickly. It's great that you are finding ways to stop yourself before it flares.
DeleteHi Dan,
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I have talked about zero tolerance quite a few times before but have never really gotten there. Some of it is certainly because life just gets in the way, as others have mentioned, but certainly the main reason is because both of us have had qualms about taking things that far. For her, there are concerns that she doesn't want to have to be watching me all the time, she doesn't want discipline to become a chore, and I think down deep she is a bit afraid of unleashing her "inner bitch" for fear of what she might discover about herself or might become. For me, I love the thought of her exercising significant control if even just for limited things, but at the same time, I fear losing freedom and am at least in some way fearful that I could resent her, even if it is my own action that brings the discipline and even if it is me who want her to be super strict.
Having said all that, there is a huge part of me that deep down really wishes that she would put her foot down and do whatever it takes with absolutely zero tolerance on certain agreed issues, and in the process, squash any resistance I might put up.
-ZM
ZM, welcome back. Sorry to hear you've been so slammed.
Delete"I think down deep she is a bit afraid of unleashing her "inner bitch" for fear of what she might discover about herself or might become." That's an interesting thought, and one I don't think I've heard w/r/t not being more strict. But, I get it. I've even known one work colleague for whom power was truly like a drug, and not a pleasant one. She truly went kind of crazy with power.
It is extremely unlikely that my wife would go crazy over power, considering it is just not in her nature from everything I have seen. Having said that, power is a pretty interesting thing in what it does to people, and so you can never be totally sure until someone has a lot of it. But even striking her becoming a "power-crazed bitch" from the list of possible hazards still leaves a lot of room for what she probably really fears, which is her being or being perceived as too much of a bitch. I think many or perhaps even most women have that fear, and I expect that my wife is concerned either that she will really become a bitch towards others, or that by her turning on "bitch-mode" too often or too strongly, I will start to perceive her as a bitch. And I am probably at least as afraid as she is. I am pretty sure that I don't want a bitchy wife, but rather I want an amazing wife like I have, but who is able to flip a switch and become a total bitch as necessary. That's not a little ask...
Delete-ZM
I totally agree with all that and feel the same. I know there are real submissives heavily into Femdom who would love to be under the thumb of an uber-bitch 24/7. That's never been me. Part of me does crave a wife who consistently sets very high standards and is quick to punish, yet I too know that could cross a line very easily.
DeleteI am sure that being afraid of being seen as a bitch is a major impediment to many women stepping up their game when it comes to being in charge. When I was working, I saw it all the time with young, talented women in the profession. They had enormous potential, but time after time I saw them pull back from exercising leadership over teams, and it was often that fear of being seen as bitchy.
The woman I referred to who went nuts on power was definitely sui generis. And, she started as someone who clearly had no concerns about being labeled a bitch. She was a very strong personality and had been in a leadership position for a long time. Honestly, that's why to me it came as such a surprise to see someone go totally off the deep end when they got just a tad more power, because it wasn't like it was a totally new thing for her. But, her previous role had been leading a small group and was subordinate to the leader of the whole department. It was a very atypical corporate situation, as we had a leader retire, and there were three strong internal candidates for successor. Instead of just choosing one, they narrowed it to two through interviews, then gave each of those two a six week tryout in which they took the full roll on, on a provisional basis. The other contender was a great candidate too, but everyone saw the position as hers to lose. And, man, did she lose it. I'd never seen anything like it. It convinced me that "drunk with power" can be a real thing.
Dan,
DeleteI’ve been around women in charge who come across like a major bitch and frankly they get no respect. My best friend’s wife is in a leadership role. She once said, there is a way to get your point across without yelling or being a bitch. You have to have great communication and be a great orator to lead. I have a friend whose brother is married to a bitch. I still don’t understand why he stays with her. They are from a catholic family, I don’t think they believe in divorce. Even my buddy puts up with some shit from her.
T
In the end, "bitch" is just the female version of "bully". I've seen it from both genders in the workplace, and eventually they tend to fail as leaders regardless of gender. And, I'm a firm believer that the way to deal with every bully is to get way up in their face about it.
DeleteWe only have zero tolerance for one thing and that is I smoke, I will be caned... hard. Both of us want this limitation in place and she actively supports my not smoking by mentioning the consequence when I'm in a situation where I might be tempted. I haven't had a puff since we have both been managing it through this.
ReplyDeleteBeyond this we haven't had anything else that she feels strongly enough to enforce on a zero tolerance basis... although there are things that I do that seem to me to be ideal for her to change, but she's just not that engaged.
If I thought there were any chance of me starting to smoke again, I definitely would want that treated with a very harsh, no consequences approach. Quitting was so hard, and the consequence of doing it can suck so much, I would want a very tough approach if I ever did it again.
DeleteYes, I quit in the early 90s with a great deal of difficulty, however with the passage of years I'd got a bit careless and when drinking with a certain group of friends would have a
Deletecigarette or two or three. Great fun at the time but would feel rubbish the next morning and I realised that I was being stupid - it wasn't good in the short term or in the long term and the risk of starting again didn't bear thinking about. I asked my wife to exercise zero tolerance and haven't smoked since. The threat really helps if I'm with that group and she will often caution me if I'm offered one.
DeleteIt's not quite accurate to say I have never smoked since going cold turkey. I've never smoked a cigarette, but I have on a tiny number of occasions (five or six) over those thirty years, smoked a cigar. Each time, I woke up this morning feeling awful and smelling it coming out of my pores. That was enough to cure of the desire for another few years. But, cigars had never been a part of my nicotine addiction. I like them more for the ritual, the smell, and just all the tradition and image around smoking a cigar. There was some of that "image" thing with cigarettes, but they were really just a delivery system for nicotine. It's by far the toughest thing I've ever quit. I had dreams about cigarettes frequently for the first ten years after I quit.
DeleteI have missed so many weeks now, and am seriously bummed out since I have been watching all these great topics each week with absolutely no time to chime in. I’m not sure if “better late than never” holds true in this case, but at least by commenting now, I get some satisfaction…
ReplyDeleteOn consent:
Like Dan and many others, I really need DD or FLR to feel as “imposed” as possible, even to the point that it might be considered coerced. And I truly can’t understand why I need this, considering just how anti-authoritarian I am in every other context.
On the cane as a spanking implement:
There’s not much I can say that others didn’t say. It is certainly a powerful tool, but my wife is still gaining the skill and confidence needed to even start to use it effectively. Even now, it is excruciatingly painful when she canes me, but I know from all that I have seen (pictures, videos, etc.) that she is just scratching the surface of the power of the cane.
On fantasies:
Fantasies are something I could write pages or perhaps hundreds of pages on, since I have a very active imagination! So maybe better if I just stick to your questions…!
“What are your most frequent DD or FLR fantasies?” – Easy. By far the most common is either she becomes ultra strict and spanks me to tears and much beyond much, much more often than I would like, or she involves others in different ways, either as witnesses, participants, or possibly as surrogates.
“Are there any you wish would happen in real life?” – Almost all, except perhaps the craziest totally public things, just because of the risk of it being recorded and shared forever, and I become the Monica Lewinsky of DD/FLR or perhaps the next big meme! But otherwise, my deepest wish is to experience every fantasy, even those that I turn out to absolutely hate and can’t wait for it to end. Life is about experiences, and I want to experience it all.
“Are there any you definitely do not want to happen in real life?” – Again, probably only something totally in public. And even there I would like to experience it if: 1) I didn’t know the people, so I didn’t have to hear about it the rest of my life, and 2) I knew there was no way for anyone to record it.
And somewhere in the middle of things I wish would happen in real life and things that I definitely do not want to happen in real life are some things like cuckolding-related things; I do have occasional thoughts about what it would be like to be spanked and punished by the guy while he is having his way with my wife, and there are some pretty powerful things there, since as Dan has pointed out before, it might not be as easy to physically resist a guy hell-bent on punishing you, but overall I just think there is too risk in something like this to actually hope it would happen.
…to be continued…
-ZM
Sorry you're so busy, but welcome back.
Delete"And I truly can’t understand why I need this, considering just how anti-authoritarian I am in every other context." I totally get. I'm the same way and have no idea why.
You and I have very similar fantasies. Including the one with the cuckolding angle. That is one that I would put near the top of the "never going to happen in real life" list, but I do get the attraction of that fantasy.
Yeah, the cuckolding one seems like something probably best left in fantasy land, considering the real risk to the overall relationship that comes with it. It is hard to predict exactly what kinds of feelings would come from that, and just how much they could change everything.
Delete-ZM
Agreed. Open and poly relationships obviously work great for some people, and I actually give those people a lot of credit for the kind of self-confidence and confidence in the relationship that I think it takes to overcome natural human jealousy. I know one couple who it seems to have worked out very well for. But, I also have known two couples who got into something similar (swinging, not hotwifing or cuckolding) and it didn't end well, in both cases because of unanticipated jealousy and/or one of the parties starting up a relationship on the side with one of the other participants. I honestly don't know how I would react. I definitely find the idea of my wife spanking another man to be hot. I'm not sure it's a big stretch to take it a step further. But, while I think I'm lower than many men on the jealousy spectrum, it's not absent either.
Delete"I definitely find the idea of my wife spanking another man to be hot. I'm not sure it's a big stretch to take it a step further." - Alan always says something to the effect that he would be more ok with another male being present during a spanking, as long as the other guy was subject to spanking as well. Cuckolding aside, another way to take it further is for your wife to spank the other guy, and the other guy spanks you. That way you get your spanking from another man that your dreams tend to gravitate towards, but the whole thing is subject to your wife's authority.
Delete-ZM
That's true. It's another one that I suspect won't be happening in real life, but I'm very into the truth that you never know . . .
DeleteAl here. Shortly after our DWC lifestyle was firmly established, we came across the Elise Sutton femdom site – which had a bunch of her articles and as well a lot of reader accounts that were posted to the group. In addition to spanking, chastity, feminization, oral service (front and rear), and pegging/butt plugs were all common topics – as well as cuckolding. In femdom circles, it seems that being spanked often goes hand in hand with being cucked.
DeleteI believe that I may have shared here before that on that fateful evening when my wife and I swapped fantasies over too much wine and I shared my “mild interest in being spanked” with her, that her secret fantasy was an MFM threesome – having two men in bed with her, focused on her pleasure. But while we immediately acted on my fantasy (that very evening), neither of us were actually prepared to go through with her fantasy. From her perspective, while a hot fantasy, she didn’t believe she would actually have the gumption to go through with it – which was a relief to me – since I didn’t know if I could overcome the jealousy factor. But it did lead me into researching the subject over the years.
Just to review what I’ve posted here before. While cuckold’s original medieval meaning applied to any man whose wife had sex with another man (even if he did not know – which he usually didn’t), the modern fetish meaning applies to men who experience a “sexualized humiliation” as their wife has sex with another man (often as he watches, perhaps bound, sometimes being subjected to humiliating comments by the wife and/or the other man – “the bull”.) I have read a few accounts of husbands who are first soundly spanked by their wives just before the bull arrives (to help put him into sub mode). And certainly the bull spanking the husband as part of the routine would be well into the cuck theme.
However, not all men who enjoy the idea of their wives having sex with another man are cucks -they may simply find the idea sexually hot with no sense of humiliation or submission – they just enjoy watching their hotwife in action. They are simply referred to as “hot wife husbands” or “stags” (particularly if they also have sex with others). This is “hotwifing” – as opposed to “cucking” – and is more a subset of swinging whereas cucking is more or a subset of femdom. But, as with most things, there is a spectrum between the two. So a stag might also enjoy a certain amount of the cuck mentality as well (especially if he is a disciplined husband).
Then, of course, there is swinging and open marriages in which the dynamic is sexual and both partners are involved. And open relationships become poly when real relationships evolve, and the wife may have a steady boyfriend (that she legitimately loves, romantically and sexually) – and the husband may have a girlfriend as well. The popular Hollywood idea of poly – the FMF threesome where a unicorn dates both the husband and wife – is actually very rare and usually unstable. Much more common is for a wife to have a husband and a boyfriend (where the men are not romantically involved, and may or may not become friends.)
(continued.....next comment)
(continued from above).
DeleteAl here. Caveats abound with opening a marriage. It is never a way to fix a broken marriage – only strong marriages survive being opened up. And even formerly solid marriages can be torn apart by opening up. The idea might be “sex only” – but sex comes with emotion and may result in people falling in love – sometimes at the expense of the marriage. I have read – more than once – that there is an 80% chance that opening a marriage will eventually result in divorce. So for those who may be tempted by his fantasy (in whatever variety) – tread carefully – and do your homework first.
And, yes, Susan was eventually – only within the last few years – granted her fantasy as well. And while I have discussed this in some detail with Dan by email, I don’t intend to offer any great detail here as it is not really a DD related topic – especially as that situation was strictly sexual with no cuck or femdom element at all (other than perhaps being a spanked husband for so many years may have.
made me a bit more open minded). Our marriage is still solid – but we did a lot of prep work – research and open and honest communication. --al
"However, not all men who enjoy the idea of their wives having sex with another man are cucks -they may simply find the idea sexually hot with no sense of humiliation or submission – they just enjoy watching their hotwife in action. They are simply referred to as “hot wife husbands” or “stags” (particularly if they also have sex with others). This is “hotwifing” – as opposed to “cucking” – and is more a subset of swinging whereas cucking is more or a subset of femdom."
DeleteThat's a really helpful distinction. Thanks Al!
Yeah Dan,
DeleteI never got the hold cuckhold thing and orgasm.denial. I agree that for a man’s prostate, he needs to ejaculate. There is medical proof to this. I would never want another man any where near my wife. I also think Chasity, cuckholding, severe caning, pegging, is to me anyway all bdsm and femdom. I think our thing is in a whole different category. I don’t feel it should be relevant to DD.
T
The chastity thing has never really done that much for me, and we have done little to explore it. I like the thought of it in a way, since there is a pretty big power dynamic with it, or for that matter with anything that in any way deals with bodily functions (like forced diapers or something like that). However, when I think of chastity, for example, I think of it in terms of as a punishment, and for a matter of days at most. All of the things I see on line seem like just fantasy fodder, like "you will be locked up for 5 years," and quite frankly I don't get that, since my wife and I really like sex!
DeleteFor cuckolding, as I said above, I don't think I would ever do anything with it because of the inherent risks. However, I do think in the case of forced cuckolding, the power structure is pretty interesting.
As for things like severe caning, pegging, and most anything else imaginable, while they might be more common in femdom/BDSM circles, I can see where they could also be effective punishments in a DD/FLR context, and for that matter, I think most mentions of FLR almost take pegging as a given. In my mind, the difference between DD/FLR and femdom/BDSM has almost nothing to do with the specific actions and everything to do with the context, purpose, and desired outcomes. But that's just me...
-ZM
I would also disagree that severe caning is a BDSM thing. I see the cane as just an other tool choice among many. Now, there are some implements I do see as more BDSM or more "funishment", but for the opposite reason, i.e. because they are flimsy and clearly not meant for a real punishment.
DeleteZM wrote: "As for things like severe caning, pegging, and most anything else imaginable, while they might be more common in femdom/BDSM circles, I can see where they could also be effective punishments in a DD/FLR context, and for that matter, I think most mentions of FLR almost take pegging as a given. In my mind, the difference between DD/FLR and femdom/BDSM has almost nothing to do with the specific actions and everything to do with the context, purpose, and desired outcomes. But that's just me.."
DeleteNot just you.... I concur. It really is not about the action per se but about the mentality behind it. For example, over the decades in various forums, I've encountered a number of DWC couples where the wife also utilized pegging and plugs to establish her authority. Each couple has to work that out for themself. (My wife pegs me on occasion but neither of us are attracted to feminization or chastity devices, for example).
The same concept applies to cucking vs hotwifing. Basically the same thing is happening in either scenario - but the mentality and motivation is different.
--al
Al, I find your comments about “cucking” interesting because my wife also revealed that she fantasized about extramarital sex after we began to communicate about my D/s fantasies. And like your wife, my wife eventually got her fantasy. It wasn’t exactly cuckolding because she did it for her own pleasure, not to humiliate me. It did, however, have a strong D/s vibe for me. Like you, I haven’t talked about this because it isn’t relevant to DD. I do think, however, that it would not have happened if we hadn’t gone down the path of FLR and DD.
DeleteDoug
That focus on the mentality/motivation is, to me, the critical key to differentiating many of these lifestyles. There are huge overlaps in many of the activities. The question is, why are you engaging in them. That's true at the very most basic level -- sexuality and eroticism. There are very few people we've encountered over the decade-plus of this blog who have maintained that DD has no erotic component for them. For the vast majority of us, there is some kind of sexual component. But, the differentiating point is whether the sexual thrill is the goal, or is it about more functional things like self-improvement, establishing better behavioral boundaries, giving/receiving real consequences for real behavior. In other dynamics like BDSM, S/m, Femdom, the sexual motivation is front and center. The acts can be not just similar but exactly the same, but the motive and the emotional drives and reactions make them totally different lifestyles.
DeleteAnd, I don think there are huge overlaps and gradations, and constellations of behaviors. I think cuckolding/hotwifing is it's own thing and could be a part of lots of different relationship styles. Particularly hotwifing. Cuckolding seems kind of inherently D/s or Femdom, as it has a lot of humiliation and hierarchy elements. But, the plain fact is DD has PLENTY of hierarchy elements. It's just that there is a broad range of how intense and how broad that hierarchy is. And, I do think that range applies in a big way to how much the husband identifies as a submissive and how much he gets off on having a subservient role. If the husband has that wiring, it may be expressed in all sorts of overlapping ways, from the simple act of going over a wife's knee, to wanting that on her command, to wanting others to know about the relationship and the wife's authority, to wanting her to be very open about her power, etc., to wanting pegging, feminization, etc.
For me, I'm pretty low on the submissive identification. No one who knows me would ever put that label on me. Yet, I do for whatever reason want a strong, authoritative wife. And, yeah, there is a mental attraction to the idea of something like hotwifing, though for me it stays mostly at the fantasy level.
I agree that it is the motivation and the precise context that determines whether any given act is DD or BDSM or FLR or femdom or whatever. Reading the accounts of other guys here, I sometimes have a bit of an inferiority complex about the type of DD my wife provides. I remember reading years ago at the DWC website that to be “real” a spanking needs to be severe enough to go beyond the husband’s fantasy into a real of pain that will deter further misbehaviour. But I don’t think is necessarily right because, from what I have seen, some people who are into spanking as BDSM push it to an extreme…and they like it! The thing that makes my wife’s spankings DD is that she only ever spanks me for disciplinary purposes.
DeleteI have read stories in which forced feminization, pegging, chastity, etc., are represented as elements of DD. The idea is that it is punitive for a woman to emasculate a man, and those acts are symbolically emasculating, especially if they are imposed on the man. Personally, I am turned on by those things as fantasy, but I don’t see them as disciplinary the way spanking is, even though spanking also feels emasculating to me. I have played with feminization, with my wife’s collaboration, and it turns me on, but it is neither forced nor punitive. It is just sexy fun to dress up in a feminine way. In the privacy of the home, that is.
As to hotwifing and cuckolding, those are indeed different phenomena based on the motivation of the parties involved. But I would say that my wife’s extramarital sexual adventures didn’t fit either category. For one thing, what she did was not central enough to our relationship to be described as a “lifestyle”. And I was not involved in her flings the way men in hotwifing or cuckold “lifestyles” generally are. I never watched, for example. I did get turned on by feelings of jealousy sometimes, and there was an element of D/s, in my mind if not in hers, insofar as she had a sexual freedom denied to me. But for the most part, it just made me happy to know that she was having fun and experiencing sexual pleasure with men who were younger and more virile than I. Recently, I read an article in the New York Times saying that Gen X women (i.e., in their 50’s) are having “the best sex” these days. There was a podcast episode about it too. It was about women getting divorced at about the age of 50 and going through a sexual renaissance, enjoying sex more than ever before, often with younger men, once freed from the constraints of marriage. That’s exactly what my wife went through in her 50’s, but without getting divorced from me. That’s in our past now, but I am glad she was able to experience that period of sexual liberation without damaging our marriage.
Doug
"But I don’t think is necessarily right because, from what I have seen, some people who are into spanking as BDSM push it to an extreme…and they like it!"
DeleteI think what Aunt could would have (and I think did) say about husbands who are wired that way is that disciplinary spankings may not work with them and the wife shouldn't do it, because it is a reward. Instead, they might need to do the opposite, and *deny* them spankings if they misbehave or disobey. Or, the wife may need to find something they truly do NOT like, such as grounding or punishments that they no fetish-like interest in.
Dan, I think that in the passage I remember, Aunt Kay wasn’t talking about hardcore masochists who get off on spanking, the harder the better. I think she was talking about the kind of man who is turned on by the *idea* of being spanked, and will for that reason submit, but who will discover that a real disciplinary spanking is very unpleasant. Although I consider myself to be “masochistic”, I probably fit the profile of the kind of man Aunt Kay was talking about. As for non-spanking forms of punishment, like grounding, or being assigned additional chores as my wife has done, I have erotic feelings about punishments like that similar to my feelings about spanking. They are all expressions of my wife’s power over me. And they all have a maternal vibe. I have heard some women use the expression “kink free FLR”, meaning a relationship in which the woman expects the man to serve and obey her without catering to the inevitable kinks like spanking that men who desire FLR’s almost always have. But I find the notion of kink free FLR nonsensical because, in my mind, FLR is fundamentally kinky, whether the man gets spanked or not. In fact, if a woman in a FLR consciously frustrates the man’s craving to be spanked, I see that as high order sadomasochism because a woman who does that is crueller than a woman who paddles her husband’s bum when he needs it.
DeleteDoug
DeleteDan wrote: "I think what Aunt could would have (and I think did) say about husbands who are wired that way is that disciplinary spankings may not work with them and the wife shouldn't do it, because it is a reward. Instead, they might need to do the opposite, and *deny* them spankings if they misbehave or disobey"
Yes, my wife and I spoke on the phone with Kay several times (as I was assisting her with her Yahoo group of the day) - and I can attest that she did say something to that affect - that for some men, a spanking might be a reward for good behavior.
--al
Doug wrote: "I find the notion of kink free FLR nonsensical because, in my mind, FLR is fundamentally kinky, whether the man gets spanked or not. In fact, if a woman in a FLR consciously frustrates the man’s craving to be spanked, I see that as high order sadomasochism because a woman who does that is crueller than a woman who paddles . . ."
DeleteOr, alternatively, the women are simply are dominant, but also "selfish narcissists" (if those terms are not redundant). Look no further than that "self appointed" FLR-Expert Te-Erika Patterson and her series of books. (E.G., her extensive "kink shaming" of dedicated husbands who need DD in her book "The Enlightened Submissive: Untwisting the Kink of Submission.") Very sad!
On openness to others knowing:
ReplyDeleteAgain, I could write hundreds of pages about openness, since anyone who has been here at all in the past 5 years has noticed that I simply cannot get past the idea of witnesses, others knowing, and so on.
“As a preliminary matter, I’d love to hear any theories you all may have about why that is. Why do third-parties play such an overwhelmingly large role in our fantasies?” – I am sure there are a multitude of reasons, but at least several that I can come up with are 1) it somehow validates the experience and makes the whole thing much more “real” - if someone actually sees it or knows about it then it is pretty hard to say that it isn’t real, and 2) most of us somehow first encountered spanking as a child (first hand or not), and generally it simply wasn’t all that well hidden, so embarrassment was probably in most cases the biggest actual part of the punishment. If so, I could see how that deep embarrassment might become a critical part of the experience. I have said for some time now that DD just lacks the emotional impact that I so crave. It is a start, but just never makes it all the way. For the longest time, I craved harder and longer spankings, but in fact no amount of physical punishment could achieve what I really want, which is the emotional impact.
“If you do fantasize about others knowing, how many actually do?” – At least 2, and probably 1 or two more.
“Is there a big gap between the reality and the fantasy? If so, why? Is it due to resistance (yours or your spouses) or more about lack of opportunity?” – Yes, there is quite a huge gap since all the time (at least weekly if not much more) we talk about things involving witnesses or other participants, yet few people actually know, and only one has sort of audibly witnessed a spanking. I don’t think it is because we don’t want to tell people, but more that we really would want it to be the right people (who wouldn’t go tell everyone else), that it is kind of hard to bring the topic up, and most of all that we simply would never want to make anyone else super uncomfortable.
“If you have opened up to others, or they somehow found out, how did that affect your relationship with them? Did it change your feelings about them? Did your interactions with them change?” – I would say that in the case of the two people that I know for sure who know, it generally strengthened the relationship. Maybe it felt slightly awkward in the beginning, but as soon as I saw that nothing really changed, now I think somehow I feel closer to them, knowing that they know.
“If you have opened up to others, do they know the nature of the spankings, i.e. that they are for real discipline and punishment? Is revealing the disciplinary aspect of the relationship give you more angst than revealing that you get spanked?” – At least two know about everything, and another knows about the disciplinary aspect of the relationship but not necessarily about the spankings, though they have been alluded to. I have been back and forth about which is harder to share, the authority aspect of the spanking aspect.
“Do you know about anyone else’s DD or FLR relationship?” – Nope.
“Is there anyone you would like to tell about your DD relationship but have not? What keeps you from telling them?” – All the things I said above.
“Do you think your spouse has or might tell someone about your DD relationship? How would you feel about that? Do you see it as within their authority to do that if they so choose?” – She has told the two who know everything. I am totally onboard with it, since I trust her judgement and generally would like to be more open anyway.
-ZM
"I have said for some time now that DD just lacks the emotional impact that I so crave. It is a start, but just never makes it all the way. For the longest time, I craved harder and longer spankings, but in fact no amount of physical punishment could achieve what I really want, which is the emotional impact."
DeleteI get that. I think for a long time I thought that harder and longer spankings would lead to crying, which would reflect that kind of emotional impact. I now think spanking is a necessary but insufficient part of what I need for that kind of emotional reaction.
On pictures or videos:
ReplyDeleteI haven’t recorded a spanking session, though my wife has taken quite a few during and after pictures, as well as occasional before pictures, like once when she waxed my bottom first (she was trying to make it more sensitive so it would hurt more). The pictures she has sent me she then deleted, mostly because I think she was afraid one of our now-grown kids would look through the photos on her phone. As far as I know, she has never shared them with anyone else.
Thinking more generally about spanking pictures or videos, I prefer spanking pictures, especially when they show facial reactions. More than anything, I like captions, that kind of set the stage for my imagination to run. I generally don’t prefer videos. One thing that is most peculiar is that on the occasions that I have shown things to my wife, I become pretty uncomfortable soon even showing her pictures, and it is super difficult for me to watch even a 2-minute video with her to the end. I can’t even describe the feeling. It is certainly strange considering that she already knows everything about my thoughts on these things and she actually spanks me, so how can I be so uncomfortable watching video with her or things like that?
One thing that someone mentioned the week of the video topic was that there is a real risk that maybe like if you do a spanking on a video call or have a live witness, maybe the other person would record it and distribute it, either accidently or on purpose.
This, together with a few other things like several mentions this last month of NXIVM’s use of “collateral” and thoughts about openness to “others” like witnesses and so on really got me thinking.
Consider that one of the biggest risks of trying to have either a live or virtual witness is that they might record it and misuse or accidently share the video/pictures. At the same time, one primary obstacle to even having a witness is that it puts them in a potentially very uncomfortable situation, presumably in your house or a hotel room or someplace like that, witnessing a spanking live. And even if my wife might arrange all this, in the event of a live witness, even though I could see or hear her/their reactions, probably I would be so overwhelmed in the moment that I would be mostly focused on the punishment or my bare bottom so probably wouldn’t even notice.
Just putting someone in this potentially awkward situation makes it difficult to ask anyone, and then even if they do watch or participate, some of the emotional impact might be lost in moment, and then later there might be fear that somehow they recorded it.
But considering what I wrote about how I can hardly even watch spanking videos with my wife gave me a pretty good idea for collateral. My wife simply tells me that if I don’t do something by a certain time, she will punish me and record the spanking, and then sometime after that, she will force me to sit there with her and a friend while they watch the video or perhaps look at other compromising pictures. In this way, there is no chance of the friend taking video or distributing things, I have to endure the embarrassment and seeing the reactions without the distraction of having my bottom punished, and since none of it is live, it is much less threatening for the friend. Now THAT is vulnerability, and the threat of it would weigh heavily on my mind and would virtually ensure perfect obedience.
If anyone read this far, sorry for writing so much (about everything), but at least now I feel caught up on the past 5 or 6 weeks. Maybe life will ease up for a bit and I can "meet" you all here more frequently!
-ZM
That would be a very interesting approach to "witnesses." It's a good point that while we think witnesses would profoundly change the experience, during the spanking itself we probably would be focused on other things.
DeleteHaving not experienced either scenario - having live witnesses/participants or me "witnessing" the "witness" as they watch a video or look at pictures - I really can't say exactly what it would be like. I expect that they are similar experiences, but really two different things. Having a live witness would certainly be a strong emotional experience, but probably especially in the times leading up to the punishment and the time after. It certainly holds the special power of a shared experience. But probably during the punishment itself, my primary focus would be on my bottom and the pain.
DeleteOn the other hand, probably in many ways the embarrassment factor would be as acute or even more so by me having to sit there and watch their reactions - both the witness(es) and my wife - as they watch a video or look at compromising pictures. This scenario lacks a lot of the titillation that would come with the live witness, especially since it lacks the unlikely though not impossible chance that they might take an active role in the punishment. In a way, this reduced titillation makes it harder to endure. Overall, probably two different but similar experiences...
The reason this idea captivated me so much is because it is a lot like "witness lite," in that it is a much lower bar to clear. Realistically, my wife could do this right now with one of her friends who knows everything, whereas she would really have to think before asking the same friend to come and witness a spanking. Also, because of what I wrote above about my total shyness about even viewing spanking videos with my wife, for me the whole thing would be very powerful, probably much more so than it would be for most.
-ZM
And it might be ‘interesting’ to be made to watch a video of my last spanking just before the next one …. As a ‘warm up’!! TB
DeleteNow that is an interesting idea, TB!
Delete@ZM very long time reader, first time commenting. "so how can I be so uncomfortable watching video with her or things like that?"
ReplyDeleteThis is something I have wrestled with for years. For reference, my wife and I met on a spanking personals website 20 years ago so this isn't anything we don't share. To be upfront, I have not addressed the FLR side of me in any serious way.
But, I ask myself this question regularly: Why is it so uncomfortable watching a video with her? I would love to know the answer to this question!!
Maybe it's kind of like hearing a recording of your own voice. I hear myself talk every day, yet I absolutely hate my voice when I hear a recording of it.
DeleteTrue about hearing recordings of our own voice, or seeing video of us in general, since our voices sound much different outside our heads, and generally we look less great on camera than in the mirror.
DeleteHowever, I wasn't referring necessarily to being uncomfortable or shy about watching videos of me being spanked, or photos of me, but rather about photos or videos of someone else. How is it that after all these years of showing things to my wife, I still feel uncomfortable watching a 3 minute video with her? The human mind is a strange thing indeed...!
-ZM
Yeah, I don't really get that one either. But, the truth is, I very rarely show Anne spanking-related videos or pictures. Not sure why.
DeleteDan.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a great topic “zero tolerance”. I have to agree with a few comments above. I can’t expect my wife to punish me every time I screw up. Although it would be perfect in theory, our wives have a lot on their plates. Were you spanked every time you were disrespectful to your parents. My answer would be no. As a kid, we knew what line not to cross and when we did well it was on. As stated before, my wife punishes for raising my voice to her. If I get mad or loud and it’s directed towards her in anyway, she will thrash me. I fall into the same category as Dan. There are times where, she fails to follow through, she is tired, she forgets, or I somehow weasel my way out of one. The last rarely happens, because I approached her about DD. I appreciate her taking the time to correct my actions. I do wish she would thrash me more and do so severely. She has become much better in her thrashing and scolding. Consistency is where we struggle a bit. I’ve spoke to her about our struggles.
I’ve been completely honest with her about how much better I behave after a serious thrashing. She agrees and has seen significant improvement in my attitude. I spoke to her about maybe incorporating some type of weekly punishments. We aren’t into the maintenance thing though. She didn’t want to spank for the sake of spanking. I’m do for one tomorrow for raising my voice in the car. We don’t have many other rules. We started with a bunch of rules and my actions have been slowly corrected.
T
I do get and appreciate the theory behind maintenance, though I do still tend to see it as "spanking for the sake of spanking" as you put it. But, I think some of its adherents--like Al for example--might say that's the point: She's spanking weekly to build or keep the habit in place, so that overall consistency is encouraged or maintained. Like I said, it doesn't resonate with me, but I do see how it could have benefits. My idea for weekly check-ins is sort of a compromise position, in which spankings don't necessarily happen every week, but a weekly meeting is there to force a decision on whether she should give one, which both reinforces her authority and makes sure things don't slip through the cracks.
DeleteAl here:
DeleteDan wrote: "I do get and appreciate the theory behind maintenance, though I do still tend to see it as "spanking for the sake of spanking" as you put it. But, I think some of its adherents--like Al for example--might say that's the point: She's spanking weekly to build or keep the habit in place, so that overall consistency is encouraged or maintained."
Yep, that is the point. And, "spanking for the sake of a spanking" is just fine with Susan - who loves to spank just for the joy of spanking. (Although, to be clear, spanking is still very much disciplinary in our home).
But, to Dan's point, maintenance spankings will resonate with some couples, and not for others. There is no one best policy. --al
"There is no one best policy" - Exactly this! Every relationship is different, since no two relationships have only the same people in them (or it would be one relationship) and all people are different. We always need to remember that what works perfectly for one couple might be totally wrong for another couple.
Delete-ZM
Al and ZM, totally agree. "One size fits all" doesn't apply to DD or anything else in life.
DeleteFor me personally, zero tolerance is the stuff of fantasy. It’s not that I don’t think it would be a good thing or that it would be impractical if husband and wife were both into it. It’s just that my wife would never buy into it. I think she would find it onerous to be expected to discipline me if she’s not in the mood. And as we are getting older, she is less frequently in the mood to spank me. Often she will scold me and leave it at that. I have developed a theory that spanking me was more sexual for my wife than she was consciously aware. Otherwise, why would her decreasing interest in sex correspond to decreasing disciplinary strictness as we age?
ReplyDeleteI have never had a drinking problem or an addiction to cigarettes or anything like that to be disciplined for, but I have sometimes suggested that certain things she scolds me about should be spanking offences. For example: eating unhealthy snacks, procrastinating, not exercising enough. But she doesn’t spank me at all for those things, except perhaps if I talk back or roll my eyes when she scolds me.
Early in our FLR I tried to get her interested in enforced chastity. I wanted her to make me wear a chastity device for which she would hold the key. That has been a powerful fantasy for me since I discovered that male chastity is a thing. Unfortunately, my wife just laughed at the idea of chastity devices and told me not to waste money on one. For a while, we played with orgasm control using the honour system. I was not allowed to masturbate, and I had to self report if I indulged without permission. Being interrogated by her and having to confess was almost the biggest part of the discipline because I have had a deeply ingrained sense of shame about masturbating since I was an adolescent, or earlier. She spanked me for doing it a couple of times, but she lost interest in it because she felt that there was no harm in my doing it. She has never had any corresponding sense of shame or guilt about doing it herself, sometimes with my assistance as “keeper of the sex toys”, so my desire for her to discipline me for it just seemed strange to her.
But zero tolerance is a wonderful fantasy for me.
Doug
My attitude toward chastity is similar to your wife's. On some level, I just don't get the attraction, though that's not judging those who do. I did buy a chastity device once. I tried it on, didn't like it, and threw it in the trash. These days, my view is more about aging and cancer prevention. The data I've seen seems pretty solid that more orgasms = lower risk of prostate cancer. Also better mental and emotional health.
DeleteDan, I would agree that more orgasms = lower risk of prostate cancer and are good for mental and emotional health. I would also add that, for me at least, more spankings = more sex. So, getting regular spankings could help you live longer and better.
DeleteI don't really know whether spanking leads to more sex for me, and I think the answer is no. If I'm pretty sure she intends to spank for something, initiating sex is likely to result in a retort along the lines of, "Sure, but you need your spanking first." That doesn't really encourage me to initiate sex.
DeleteAl here. Sex very rarely follows a spanking in our marriage - discipline and sex are two different things, The only exception has been when she would exercise her femdom prerogative following a maintenance spanking - in which case after being pegged and orally servicing her for an extended period (front and rear) while sporting a large butt plug, she might decide to finish things by riding me to climax. This was more common in the early days, but still happens on occasion. All that aside, we do have a robust sex life (at least for our age). --al
DeleteWe're kind of the opposite. Sex after spanking probably at least 70% of the time.
DeleteSex almost always follows a spanking even if it's just oral sex for her. In most instances, we will both have an orgasm even if it doesn't happen until the following morning.
DeleteAs for chastity devices, that doesn't necessarily mean fewer orgasms for all folks who engage in such activities. In many cases, it just means that she controls when they occur.
Graham
Dan wrote in regard to chastity devices: "On some level, I just don't get the attraction, though that's not judging those who do."
DeleteJust to chime in here as well (and I'm sure I've said this here before) - Both my wife and I are on the same page with Dan. Neither of us understand the attraction to that particular fetish - but absolutely no judgment for those who do.
Remembering the mantra of the BDSM community: "My kink is not your kink, but your kink is ok".
I know that DWC couples generally do not consider F/M DD to be a kink, but let's face it, it is off the beaten path (no pun intended). And certainly, even among the members here - who have genuine disciplinary relationships - there are numerous ways in which that is implemented - and different ideas about what all that encompasses.
--al
Dan wrote: “My attitude toward chastity is similar to your wife's. On some level, I just don't get the attraction, though that's not judging those who do. I did buy a chastity device once. I tried it on, didn't like it, and threw it in the trash.These days, my view is more about aging and cancer prevention. The data I've seen seems pretty solid that more orgasms = lower risk of prostate cancer. Also better mental and emotional health.”
DeleteDan, in my head I agree with you, but enforced chastity is a very powerful fantasy for me. I can’t help being turned on by it, even if it seems silly to me. I have never actually worn a chastity device, so I don’t know whether I would like it in reality. My wife and I did experiment with orgasm control and denial on the honour system, and I found that extremely exciting. I think that for me being denied an orgasm has a D/s vibe that is similar to being spanked. It’s a very intimate form of power exchange. I think the enforced chastity kink also depends on having a sense of guilt or shame about masturbating…or about being unable to control that urge. It’s basically asking your wife to impose external control on a behaviour beyond your self control. For me being spanked for masturbating is the ultimate spanking fantasy because it combines my spanking kink with my chastity kink. Unfortunately, my wife eventually lost interest in controlling my orgasms because she doesn’t see any reason to. Or maybe I should say fortunately. I don’t know.
Your concern about enforced chastity and prostate health is legitimate. Also, I can imagine that a chastity device would be uncomfortable and not very hygienic. Interestingly, I once had to see my doctor about a prostate infection, and he took the opportunity to tell me that it is healthy for men to ejaculate regularly. I felt a bit embarrassed because that was during the period when my wife was denying me orgasms fairly frequently, and I felt as though he suspected I might be into some such kink.
Doug
Al, while I've argued with some who insisted that DD is nothing but kink and that those who see it as "real" are fooling themselves (as Caged Lion was wont to do), I don't deny that it is kinky. I don't know how Kay and others could throw spanking get-togethers and not concede it's kink to one extent or another.
DeleteI used to be of the opinion that DD is “nothing but” kink. However, that was when FLR existed purely in the realm of erotic fantasy for me. Because I was turned on by the idea of submitting to my wife, I reasoned that DD must be nothing but an erotic game. Once my wife agreed to having a FLR with spanking discipline, however, I discovered that both the discipline and the hierarchical power structure were real. My wife didn’t just pretend to be the boss; she became the boss. Moreover, because the fantasy is such a continuous source of erotic pleasure for me, I am shocked every single time I get spanked by the reality of the pain.
DeleteDoug
Dan - my wife was the one who was very strict out of the gate and she has continued to be strict. I get spanked somewhat less often only because I am better behaved. I would never try to force my wife to enforce a zero tolerance policy but she is that way on her own. It took some adjustment initially and it certainly changed our relationship dynamic to something more FLR and I see her differently than I used to. I have a new/different respect for her and see her as the authority in the relationship. She says she still sees me the same but she does treat me differently in her role. I think because of the effectiveness of the dynamic in the beginning spanking to her is like a hammer and every issue is a nail. It is certainly her go to. Over time its only become more that way and she always finds new behaviors or things to add to what she will spank for. she used to try and talk or scold about things up front then spank after but she shifted to spanking with scolding up front then talking after because she likes that the spanking takes care of any potential ego or defensiveness that might become argumentative. being argumentative in other context is also a spank-able offense. - DD
ReplyDelete"She used to try and talk or scold about things up front then spank after but she shifted to spanking with scolding up front then talking after because she likes that the spanking takes care of any potential ego or defensiveness that might become argumentative."
DeleteThat's a super interesting point. My defensiveness is definitely much higher when she lectures immediately before a spanking than it is afterward, even if I don't express that defensiveness. If there is a real discussion to be had, it does make sense to me that it be done after the spanking, not before.
Yes,a very interesting observation,somewhat counter-intuitive to the normal dynamic but it is a way of taking care of the ego problem which must be managed to make DD effective. This is reminiscent in some measure to the effect of preventative spanking. Both prepare a male for the behavior expectations that follow. But,I appreciate and probably need my wife's scolding before paddling.but if she doesn't got my ego under control, the spanking is a lot less effective even when she scolds. To listen to what she is saying, one does need to become accepting and non defensive. I imagine what DS is describing would produce that state.
DeleteAlan
Our sequence is so firmly established, I doubt it will change. But, it would be interesting for her to at least try spanking first and doing the lecture/expectation setting afterward. It also might make for more effective scolding. Currently, it usually feels kind of rote and proforma, and my reaction is often something close to boredom. It might be more effective if it came after and was more like, "You just got spanked because of XYZ, and here are my expectations for you to avoid worse than XYZ next time . . ."
DeleteThere also could be an opportunity for a good dialogue -one , because her anger or irritation will be less because you have already been punished and probably humbled -and two, because you are likely to be less defensive and more objective because you are not facing a looming spanking.
DeleteAlan
I agree that saving much of the lecture and until after the spanking can make a husband much, MUCH more attentive and reception to his wife's position.
DeleteHowever, many people equate the "lecture" with being "giving the reason for the spanking" (e.g., Aunt Kay), rather the more extended lecture, explanations and reprimands that man lectures incorporate.
To me, it seems essential know the reason for the spanking during the spanking, even if he might fully understand his wife's perspective on many causal elements. Plus, "scolding" is often most effective DURING the spanking, and that's impossible with a priori knowledge of the offense.
(Maybe I'm putting to my meaning into other members meaning of the term "lecture?")
Donn,
DeleteI think this rings true for many. Call it scolding or lecture, if it all happens before an imminent spanking, it can "set" the dynamic well enough, But much nuance in a pre-spanking lecture or scolding can easily be lost on a penitent husband laser focused on what is about to happen -rather than what is being said.
f you have experience with what I will term "back loaded" scolding, please share it
Alan
Alan: Yes, I think I understand what you mean by "back loaded" scolding, and I agree with it being particularly effective. I do, however, think that "back loaded" lecturing, i which detailed exposition by a wife of her analysis of the reasoning for rules and standards of the husband's behavior is most effective. (Such lecturing, if attempted during a spanking, is likely to be poorly understood by a husband in the distressing distraction of serious chastisement.)
DeleteI certainly believe in the effectiveness of relatively "simpler" scolding (e.g., reprimands, subordination, even inducing humiliation) DURING physical chastisement. The combination of simultaneous physical and mental chastisement has always been most effective with myself.
Dan wrote:
ReplyDelete"That's a super interesting point. My defensiveness is definitely much higher when she lectures immediately before a spanking than it is afterward,"
Ain't that the truth! Nothing like a strong does of the paddle to straighten out an attitude. But, in all seriousness, there's been plenty of times when I submitted to a spanking begrudgingly, pissed off about something, and convinced that I was right and she was wrong (spanking or not) - only to emerge from the spanking with a much different point of view. Interesting how that works. --al
Yes, we have had some great discussions here in the past (I believe also involving Alan) about just how amazing it is that DD has the power to immediately and profoundly alter mindset, and how you can be so convinced you are being wrongfully spanked at the beginning, only to realize by the end that she was completely right and you were completely wrong on the issues.
Delete-ZM
Yep, it really is an amazing phenomenon, particularly because it's real. It's not that you are begrudgingly changing your attitude and your view of whether you were at fault because you don't want to be spanked again. It really does result in a change in your view of the facts. Very odd.
DeleteOur thinking is very influenced by unconscious instincts designed to keep us safe. If you remove the imminent fear for our safety, thinking can become much sharper and objective. Hence after you have been spanked, there is a feeling of safety and contentment that allows more rational thought. The reality is that when she spanks you, she is usually right and you are more likely to realize that after it is over
DeleteAlan
Fascinating discussion. I too have noticed that being spanked helps me to see things my wife’s way. My theory is that adult/adult spanking is such a powerful ritual of domination and submission that it can actually bring about a state of mental and emotional alignment. When you subject yourself to the primal pain and humiliation of a spanking, you justify it to yourself and give it meaning by accepting that your wife is right. It’s not a rational process, but an emotional adjustment. Maybe it’s psychological process somewhat analogous to Stockholm syndrome. Whatever the psychological process, I agree with Dan that it’s real.
DeleteDoug
Back to zero tolerance. My wife ordinarily spanks for good reason and not for trivial matters. But she has exercised zero tolerance on one bad habit of mine, which another commenter mentioned. I had a habit of interrupting her (and other people), talking over her, etc. This was hugely irritating and she resorted to zero tolerance, giving a sore spanking after every occurrence. At home, it was immediate. But she also enforced it, in private of course, if she noticed me doing it to other people. This was very effective. After a few months of this, the habit was pretty much broken. Does it ever happen now? Rarely, and with the same result.
DeleteTom
DeleteI am about to receive the bathbrush for that very same offense. I can't help myself about halfway through doing it i know I screwed up. It is always a discipline offense. JJL
It took a while, but I now seriously think about letting my wife speak without interruption nowadays.
DeleteIn the rare occasions when I try to interrupt her she will pause and say "Excuse me...I'm speaking!"and I stop.
By doing this she is actually helping me avoid a spanking provided I comply.
Like the old adage ' Husbandsonly learn when she makes his bottom burn!
Oh yeah, I've received numerous spankings for interrupting her over the years. I'm much better about it now, but still slip up now and then. --al
DeleteThese sort of spankings illustrate how DD can deal with problems like this ( call it mansplaining for a tag) . Most guys with these habits do want to lose them, since they harm you as much as they alienate your wife. And a wife who successfully spanks this kind of behavior out of you probably feels the increased intimacy and trust that comes from you accepting the spanking AND changing the behavior. DD can deal ( sometimes) with major problems in a relationship. But its the day to day stuff where spanking works best
DeleteAlan
I think my wife probably would say I have the opposite problem. She talks to me while I go on reading a book or surfing the net. And, she's kind of right.
DeleteIf I slip, which I rarely do, there is no warning. Punishment follows, immediately if feasible.
DeleteInterrupting my wife or speaking over her is something that my wife also cured me of through zero tolerance. The most severe punishments I have received have been for that. I haven’t been spanked for it for a long time because if I start to do it my wife does the same thing as Glenmore’s wife, saying something like “Excuse me, I’m speaking.” That reminds me, during the US election campaign, I saw a video clip of Kamala Harris saying exactly that, and I must confess that I found it really hot. In that moment, I couldn’t help picturing Kamala as a disciplinary wife.
DeleteDoug
A good scolding during, not after, the spanking can help bring me to tears. Graham
ReplyDeleteHere’s a paradoxical situation I’m in right now, and I wonder what other guys would do in my place. My wife has been telling me for a couple of days that I need to clean the bathroom, and I haven’t done it yet. In the past she would have spanked me already for such a delay, but I have been starting to think that she doesn’t spank me anymore, that she has lost interest in DD. However, a few minutes ago, before she went out shopping, she showed me the paddle and told me she was out of patience and that she will use the paddle if the bathroom isn’t clean when she gets home. So what do I do? I am tempted to delay cleaning the bathroom until she gets home to see whether she will act on her threat. Plus I have really been craving a spanking for a long time, to have that feeling I get from submitting to her that way. On the other hand, I have never in the many years we have had a FLR disobeyed a direct order backed up by a spanking threat. For one thing, disobeying a direct order from my wife feels wrong to me; it feels like a failure to honour the terms of our FLR. Additionally, I feel as though defying an order to provoke a spanking might trivialize the DD aspect of our FLR. I am really torn. I don’t have time to wait for advice because I have to decide now what to do, but I am curious about what other guys would do in my place.
ReplyDeleteDoug
Clean the bathroom Doug. Get naked, hand her the paddle when she gets home, apologise, and ask her to punish you for taking so long and for having to be told repeatedly.
DeleteMerk, I did indeed clean the bathroom before she got home. I wish I had followed the second part of your advice, but I didn’t see it on time. Also, I find it really difficult to ask my wife for a spanking. I’m not sure why. It’s just something I feel really shy about. But I think I will write a letter of apology now and suggest that she should still spank me for being late. I also need to tell her that I miss the way she used to be strict about things like that. I think we still have a FLR. Otherwise, I wouldn’t feel so strongly obligated to obey her the way I did yesterday. But without strict discipline, it feels like it lacks structure, and I feel a bit lost and listless. I need to feel that there is a solid structure of accountability.
DeleteDoug
Donn
DeleteDoug: A little late to this discussion, but I strongly agree with Merck -- that you should request the spanking from you wife re "late bathroom work," whether that spanking is for the "lateness" or for you "guilt."
DeleteOne thing I might add. You have mentioned multiple times your feelings that you "need" more spankings than you are getting. I think that your recent consideration of purposefully disobeying your wife to induce a spanking is a potentially very troubling sign. Obviously, such intentional "bratting" is something that all DD-bottoms should always strive to NEVER do! However, even if you never "intentionally" draw a spanking, you must remember that you subconscious mind is always working.
It is not unheard of for a person's subconscious to influence overt actions that may result in a spanking. Could some of you recent motivation to intentionally disobey and induce a spanking came from your subconscious. Alternatively, sometimes a strong subconscious need can interfere with a person's functioning to such a degree that it interferes with correct behavior, and thereby induces a spanking.
This is something that I have long struggled with, and although never before (to my recollection) directly discussed here in the forum, I suspect many other husbands struggle with: We want to behave and be good; want to always meet our wives' expectations, and never cause them any distress; but the better we become, the less often we receive spankings -- the need for spankings increases, and sometimes interferes with us "being good," in itself causing our wives distress.
I remember many instances of this when I was in Junior and Senior High School: I was always trying, and almost always succeeding, in maintaining the best behavior, and the better I behaved, and the more paddlings I observed other students getting or NOT behaving, the more I wanted to be intentionally bad and personally draw paddlings and other punishments from my teachers (even though it would hurt them)!
This is something I struggled through with my wife, until a finally told her how the better and better I became, and the less spankings I received, the more I was having intrusive thoughts of intentionally misbehaving to induce her into spanking. This was a major reason we set up our Sunday morning "devotionals," with (semi-symbolic) canings accompanying regular recitations of our mutual DD and FLR vows.
If you are having "intrusive thoughts" about intentionally misbehaving to induce spankings, even though you sincerely want to be "the best you can be" for your wife, might it be time for you to more fully explain the depth of your "needs" as both a "submissive" AND "masochist," and carefully discuss with your wife possible changes (e.g., "check-ins," "devotionals," "maintenance spankings")? Discuss how you two might relieve such tensions and allow the relationship to move forward without uncertainty about the motivations and underlying causes of any misbehavior. (Uncertainty about your underlying motivations can be very corrosive to a good relationship!)
Sorry if this soliloquy intrudes into your family, but I've been where you are now, and these are awful feelings to try to deal with, particularly alone without your wife's input and help.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a spanking. She knows you well. Just tell her that you really feel guilty and that a you need here to put you over her lap. Also, maybe you need a stress relief whipping. I think that most women who spank would relate to one of those. Good luck! Graham
DeleteDoug, you need to talk with her... writing a note puts the whole thing further down the track. You also need to add that you were considering intentionally disobeying her instruction onto the list of misdeeds that you need to be punished for.
DeleteMerk, Donn, and Graham. Thanks for your input and advice. I feel emotionally confused about all this stuff. I agree with you, Donn, that there must be stuff going on below the level of conscious awareness. Otherwise, why would I feel so confused?
DeleteI am indeed having intrusive thoughts. For the most part, those intrusive thoughts are like intense, sudden fantasies in which I vividly picture myself draped over my wife’s lap with my pants down, kicking and squirming and crying from the pain of a hard paddling. I am struggling to evade punishment, but she is holding me firmly in place as she paddles me. Graham, you mentioned that I should tell my wife that I need her to put me “over her lap.” It’s interesting that these highly visual flash fantasies are very specifically about being spanked over her lap, even though she has never spanked me that way. That makes me realize, I don’t just crave a spanking, I crave a spanking in that manner, OVER HER KNEE! That specificity makes it a bit more complicated to explain my need to my wife.
As things stand, it’s not just DD that has slipped, it is hierarchical structure of FLR. At the height of our FLR, my wife was more demanding, more controlling, and stricter. Back then, she expected me to do all the cooking and most of the housework, and she backed up her demands with spanking threats. Her threats and her domineering manner excited me, and my sexual arousal was a compensation for having to do an “unfair” amount of housework. (Is it unfair if you crave unfairness?). I still do almost all the cooking, but my wife no longer imposes an unfair share of the housework on me. She does a lot of it herself now. Sometimes I want to ask her why she does work that she could make me do, like she used to do. On the other hand, it’s not as though I love doing housework…unless it is eroticized by a clear D/s vibe. Sometimes I wonder whether FLR and DD were more erotic for my wife than she let on. Like maybe she used to get erotic pleasure from making me do an unfair share of the housework, but now that her libido is diminishing with age, her natural sense of fairness and egalitarianism, and her tolerance of my natural laziness, are re-emerging. I have ambivalent feelings about that. The unfairness of a 24/7 D/s relationship is exciting, but there are definite advantages to being treated as an equal rather than a subordinate. And is it healthy to want to be treated as inferior?
Merk, I know you are right that I need to talk to my wife about this stuff. But I don’t find it easy. I feel like I need to talk to my therapist too.
Doug
Dan: I know that we were all somewhat "sidetracked" by Clarence, including myself, and I must apologize for my own contribution(s). I fully agree with your basic policy of not having this blog devolve into modern political "discussions."
ReplyDeleteHowever, there were other, relatively relevant posts on April 1. Was it necessary to delete ALL posts from that day. Might it be possible (for posterity) to restore the non-political posts from April 1st?
-- Thanks
OOPS! My Bad! (I accidentally typed April 1 into my web-browser's search bar, rather than the correct "May 1.")
DeleteAll, just fyi, I do intend to post relatively soon, but I have a pretty busy weekend. May not get to it until later Sunday or on Monday.
ReplyDeleteHi all. Long time lurker and second time commenter.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I would just like to thank Dan for doing this blog which I discovered through his Medium articles. It really has been instrumental in my life to read others' thoughts that seem to have this female led domestic discipline relationship (FLDDR) need (and yes I have come to conclusion that this is a need despite me wanting to think for a long time that it is merely a want or desire). I'll try to comment regularly. I've brought up commenting regularly to wife as well as it seems this blog could use more females so you may see her from time to time. I think she will go by the name "L".
While my wife and I have been practicing this FLDDR dynamic since last August, it really never took off the way I wanted to. She would discipline me maybe every 5-6 weeks with the spankings being mild. Perhaps something one could think of has a hard spanking for foreplay, but nothing like a domestic discipline spanking I have had a fascination about for as long as I can remember. We had a lengthy discussion this past week about taking things more seriously which went extremely well. We established a lot more structure with one component being both of us trying to actively comment on this blog. There are a host of new rules I'm happy to get into for any of those wondering, but I don't want to stray too far away from the main point of this week's discussion. That being said, I'm confident now this dynamic will be more strictly forced and truly take off. After all, I did get an ass whooping this past Friday for something my wife had said she was going to punish me for the week prior. While I didn't "surrender", a topic I see frequently discussed that fascinates me, nor did the pain last into the second day besides some minor bruising, this definitely was the most sound spanking. Therefore, we are making progress and I'm ecstatic about that.
Two of Dan's comments really resonated with me this week. The first being "In short, part of me is morbidly attracted to being under my wife’s stern hand to a much greater extent than I am now." and the second being "Yet, part of me clearly is attracted to the prospect of being humbled in that way and to being subject to that level of rigorous control. And, while I suspect it would be super challenging as it was happening, it also likely would be incredibly attractive and stimulating after the fact."
This is something I've definitely emphasized with my wife. I really do want to be much more under her authority and subjected to her discipline much more often. One thing I've emphasized is arguing. We rarely do argue or have disagreements in general, but when we do, I would much rather avoid all that and simply be told "This conversation is over. Go stand in your corner and wait for me to teach you a hard lesson about arguing with me" or something of that sort. I do thoroughly enjoy the idea of her demonstrating her authority verbally as well as with domestic discipline. I believe she will get more comfortable doing so with time.
Also, I would enjoy if there was some sort of zero tolerance policy on chores she asks me to do. Maybe not zero tolerance, but most definitely if she tells me to do something, I forgot and she reminds me only for me to get again, I feel like that should definitely end with a sound spanking. I do feel like I was close on Friday after I already had been spanked that morning. She got home from work and I had forgotten to unload the dishwasher. She gave me that "Do I need to give you another ass whooping today" look which was terrifying, but exactly the kind of dynamic I am looking for. Though, I do hope she gets more verbal with her threats.
All in all, zero tolerance across the board may be a bit much, but there are things that I think definitely should be more strictly enforced to make sure I'm being the best husband I can be for her.
- W
Hi W. Welcome! I'm glad you found the blog through Medium. I've concluded Medium is never going to be a good platform for having actual discussions on this topic, but I do think it's serving as a feeder for the blog, where we DO have some good discussions.
DeleteI'm definitely interested about the new structures you've put in place. I'm working on a topic, which I''ll post later today, that could be a good entry point for you to explain that more.
It's great that your wife seems to be onboard with taking things to the next level. I definitely share your desire for more verbal strictness. When she does become more verbally dominant, my natural anti-authoritarianism kicks in. I don't like it at all as it is happening. But, it's always arousing in retrospect.
Hi Dan. Sounds great! Looking forward to your post later today.
Delete- W