Strictness and Consistency in Domestic Discipline and FLR Relationships - How Much Strictness Do You Really Want, and What are the Real Impediments? (Meeting 518)

Stop setting goals. Goals are pure fantasy unless you have a specific plan to achieve them." - Stephen Covey

Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the Disciplinary Wives who have recently joined us and to extend an invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.

 

I hope you all had a good week. Mine was pretty tame.  Which I guess was good.  Lots of setting tinkering with a new motorcycle for an upcoming adventure trip.

 

Thank you to all who participated in our discussion last week, despite the fact that it took a little political detour.

 

“Zero tolerance” seems like a simple concept in theory, but there plainly are a lot of nuances.  Although maybe it’s just another way of articulating the goal of being consistent, it seems to me to also incorporate the notion of a special level of strictness.

 

Although our wives sometimes seem to struggle with implementing anything approaching “zero tolerance” in day-to-day practice, our discussion did give some examples of reasons to try.  For example, Norton discussed how consistent strictness has helped him with at least two fairly serious issues:

 

“This should prove to be a popular topic, as many of us have expressed a desire for more consistent strictness and accountability. Often it seems like life just gets in the way. Also, she might not always be in the mood. A few years ago she helped me reduce my drinking with very consistent hard spankings when I went over my limit. I did self report, and would always send her a text as soon as I realized it happened. The other major issue has been what she would consider reckless driving. We have different standards for what that is, but it basically means that if she is in the car and I make her nervous, I will be spanked. That definitely has changed my driving habits.

 

Similarly, Mike W.’s wife is getting results with “helping” him keep his temper under control, which is something I struggle with and is very hard to control because it comes on suddenly:

 

“Zero tolerance” is often a struggle for my wife Sue to achieve - either because she is tired, too busy with life in general, or in pain with a recurring shoulder injury . However we both agree that zero tolerance is important if the goal is behaviour change. There is indeed a risk that it can lead to punishing every little thing. We have gotten around that by specifying a small number of highest priority problems for immediate action.

 

A good example is my tendency to lose control when I am upset and have an angry outburst. She will “start small” and spank at the very first sign of me raising my voice. And quite severely. The idea is that small problems can be prevented from developing into major blowups, often in mid-sentence.

Mike W.

 

 

Norton and Mike W.’s experiences confirm the effectiveness of quick and certain action.  Yet, both of them refer to the challenge of maintaining consistency, attributing it to “real life” getting in the way. 

 

ZM, however, offers a competing view about whether the real impediment to consistency and strictness is just the distractions of real life:

 

I think this "life getting in the way" thing often has nothing to do with the busyness of life, though of course that is very much a thing as well. Rather, I think the key issue is that most of our wives - even those that really get off on the exercise of power - really can't get their heads around the idea that we really want and need them to be strict. As a result, even as they hear what we are saying, and even if they really like spanking us and showing their power, they are always afraid of overdoing it, because they just can't imagine wanting what we want. And while this is bad enough by itself, it is even further complicated by us visibly not wanting it at the time and needing it to feel non-consensual (of course actually consensually non-consensual).

 

I think down deep she is a bit afraid of unleashing her "inner bitch" for fear of what she might discover about herself or might become. For me, I love the thought of her exercising significant control if even just for limited things, but at the same time, I fear losing freedom and am at least in some way fearful that I could resent her, even if it is my own action that brings the discipline and even if it is me who want her to be super strict.

 

Having said all that, there is a huge part of me that deep down really wishes that she would put her foot down and do whatever it takes with absolutely zero tolerance on certain agreed issues, and in the process, squash any resistance I might put up.

 

A good friend, Rhiannon, who I met through our respective blogging about DD and FLR issues, talked about the challenges involved in being a consistently assertive wife in a DDFLR relationship:

 

I am a person who likes the tangible and concrete. I love specific examples and particular scenarios to kind of find a baseline and then be able to apply it.  I have found that is far less possible in a FLR than I first thought.  I had hoped that once I decided to lead, and he to follow, that it would kind of just work like that.  I would give commands and set expectations, and he would follow them and provide his active participation as requested.  And we would have an established system related to consequences that would set our life on a clear and regulated path. 

 

So much for that pipe dream.  In some ways, I find that trying to fit it into a neat package just does not work.  The overarching goals or intent is helpful as a guide, but cannot really answer the question of what the particular point is or how to deal in the day to day.   I worry constantly that I am not providing enough consistency, accountability or consequence in the days or weeks that get clogged up with work or other life demands, and then feel as if I am constantly trying to reinvent what we do to make it have a point and fit within a construct of what this should be.  It can be paralyzing and lead to a whole bunch of WTF are we doing,

 

I struggle most with figuring out what I really want and not constantly being on top of this--which is maybe something that happens after time, but in its infancy, a FLR needs more parameters around it. We tend to get into a good rhythm, with my husband taking over the household running aspects, somewhat regular discipline and accountability and me leading rather than asking. But that decently well-run machine has flaws and I do not always say what I want or set the clearest of expectations.  It is my own fault and a plan I need to recommit to in order to keep him feeling safe in his submission.

 

I really do need to address the day to day and not just kind of rely on the general construct to get us through.

 

The challenges and self-doubt involved in exercising leadership obviously are daunting.  One commenter, DD, paints a compelling picture, however, of what happens when a wife does become more strict:

 

“My wife was the one who was very strict out of the gate and she has continued to be strict. I get spanked somewhat less often only because I am better behaved. I would never try to force my wife to enforce a zero tolerance policy but she is that way on her own. It took some adjustment initially and it certainly changed our relationship dynamic to something more FLR and I see her differently than I used to. I have a new/different respect for her and see her as the authority in the relationship. She says she still sees me the same but she does treat me differently in her role. I think because of the effectiveness of the dynamic in the beginning spanking to her is like a hammer and every issue is a nail. It is certainly her go to. Over time its only become more that way and she always finds new behaviors or things to add to what she will spank for. she used to try and talk or scold about things up front then spank after but she shifted to spanking with scolding up front then talking after because she likes that the spanking takes care of any potential ego or defensiveness that might become argumentative. being argumentative in other context is also a spank-able offense.”

 

Lack of consistency and the unfulfilled desire for more strictness top the list of changes we would like to see our wives implement.  If you fall into that camp, what do you attribute the lack of consistency or failure to become as strict as you’d like to?

 

Are Norton and Mike W. right that it’s mostly about the distractions of “real life”? 

 

Or, is it, as ZM believes, more about concerns that taking control will be seen as “bitchy” or “too much”?

 

 

As ZM alludes to, one of the big ironies in real world DD and FLR relationships is that wives do have concerns about how taking command and being more strict would really be perceived, yet many of us are insistent that we really do want them to be far more strict with us.

 

Yet, even when the husband and wife agree that increasing strictness would be a good thing, it often doesn’t happen.  I think the first two sentences from Rhiannon’s blog post, and the Stephen Covey quote at the top, identify the heart of the problem, namely that there is a big gap between having a goal and having a plan. 

 

In your DD relationship, is increased strictness something the husband wants?  Does the wife share that goal?  How successful have the two of you been in making such a goal a reality?  If there is a big gap between the reality and the goal, what do you see as the source of the problem – “real life” getting in the way, or something deeper like concerns about whether he really wants her to be more strict or how being more controlling might be perceived by him or others?

 

 

For those who have succeeded in moving toward a more strict, controlling DD and/or FLR dynamic, how did that come about?  Was the wife just naturally dominant from the beginning, or was there a learning or “fake it ‘til you make it” process involved?  Are there “concrete steps” of the sort Rhiannon wants that you implemented and would recommend?  New commenter W. referenced new structures and rules his wife is implementing. Hopefully he and others will chime in with descriptions of what they and their wives have done to get to the desired level of strictness and control.

 

Have a great week.