“The desire to keep doing what we love supersedes the desire to penalize bad behavior.” - Nell Scovell
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you’re all doing well. It’s seemed like a long and draining couple of weeks, even though I obviously haven’t been spending much time on this blog. I guess the converse conclusion could also be true – my energy level on this fine Sunday is down because I haven’t been engaging enough with this crew.
I am sorry for the posting delays. Anne and I weren’t doing anything particularly adventurous, but we weren’t spending a lot of time at home. Honestly, it was nice to spend multiple nights hanging out in restaurants together, having a few drinks and generally checking in with each other. We don’t do that enough, despite being retired and not having a lot of other actual commitments in our calendars.
I also have just been in one
of those moods in which DD isn’t on my mind as much. It’s odd, because just a few weeks ago it was
on my mind constantly. I’ve gone through
these lulls many times in the past, so I don’t have much doubt this one will
pass.
In the meantime, I’m glad that some of you suggested a topic, because I sure as hell wasn’t coming up with anything on my own. This suggestion comes from KOJ:
Here's a discussion idea: Specific behaviors of the spanked husband that were successfully changed by DD, and specific behaviors that weren't changed successfully, and speculation on why DD changed some and not others.
DMR (New commenter? If so, welcome!) followed up with:
I will "second" KOJ's suggested topic of which behaviors are most amenable to correction / reduction with DD, and which are not. I might add, as an element of any such discussion, more details about (1) which behaviors are most likely deigned subject (or "prioritized") to/for such corrections, and which are not, (2) which behaviors do wives emphasize correcting vs. husband's asking for DD-assistance in correcting, and (3) how / why husbands and wives "prioritize?" (This could easily take two, or more, weeks of discussion.)
So, let’s go with those. I can kick things off.
I’ll begin with what hasn’t worked, and it’s a bit ironic. Cutting down on my tendency to binge drink has never really happened. It’s ironic, because it was a major component of our original decision to try DD, and it’s easily what I’ve been spanked for most often over the years. So, why hasn’t DD been more successful? I think the answer is three-fold. First, for all the attention that has been paid to it over the years, I’m not sure that—deep down inside—either of us really care about it all that much. Second, drinking socially with friends is close to the core of how I see myself; it’s part of my identity and certainly a big part of my English/Irish cultural background. Third, because socializing over a beer is such a big part of who I am, I have no desire at all to eradicate the behavior entirely, so I’m pretty comfortable with DD being more of a “guardrail,” i.e. a tool she brings out to get me back in line when things start to drift a little too much.
What has worked? It tends to be the “smaller” stuff, like forgetting to lock doors, doing certain chores, etc. Though, I think she’s also succeeded in making me much more careful about crossing the line from being engaged to being domineering in some social conversations.
What explains when DD has worked
in changing before and when it hasn’t? Part
of it certainly is how much I really care about the behavior at issue. Like I said, although I appreciate the
guardrails that Anne imposes on things like drinking too much, I’m not motivated
to go much beyond that. There also are some behaviors that I really want to change when I'm feeling acutely embarrassed or pissed at myself, but it dissipates quickly. That tends to happen with moments of carelessness that end up costing me time or money but, in the scheme of things, aren't all that important.
Moreover, while my own commitment and “buy-in” are important, I think the far more important factor is her commitment. Since getting spanked and severely scolded for it multiple times last year, I have been more careful about watching my mouth and monitoring my own behavior in social settings, even though I don’t really care about the behavior that much and, in fact, I didn’t see at least one of the instances as nearly as serious as she did. But, since she made it crystal clear that she cared about it, I took that concern seriously.
Similarly, when she has taken leaving doors unlocked or leaving the garage door open more seriously, I have gotten a lot less forgetful about it. So, why does it still happen. Honestly, because while she has been somewhat diligent about it, that diligence hasn’t reached the “zero tolerance” level. She tends to warn about it a lot, but the follow-through isn’t always there. Again, I think this is an area in which her commitment to changing the behavior is far more determinative than my own. With enough consistency and frequency, I’m sure the forgetfulness around open and unlocked doors would disappear or very close to it.
It reminds me of this comment from MW from a few weeks ago.
“I found that when I was spanked frequently (daily or nearly daily) for the same problem, the memory of the pain, the soreness, and the little twinge in the butt would remind me to do the right thing. For one persistent problem, I would actually feel desperate and a little fearful and work harder at it. It was a wonderful feeling after years of making no progress on it.”
Why has she chosen to prioritize some things and not others? Honestly, I don't know. The unlocked doors and open garage door are obvious -- she sees them as a serious safety issue. From time to time, however, she has gotten very focused on certain things that seemed small to me at the time. For example, I had a few incidents involving forgetting to clean a rice cooker after dinner, which she gave me some surprisingly hard spankings for. There are other seemingly serious things, however, like being disrespectful or rude to her, that she almost certainly should come down hard on but seldom actually does.
How about you? Which behaviors have you successfully addressed with DD? Which behaviors have been more resistant, or impervious, to change? What factors do you think make the difference between the two?
Have a great week!
It looks like I could be the first to comment on this one and, at the same time, because I've never been in a DD relationship, contribute the least useful one.
ReplyDeleteI believe what would work best for me is her using her judgment, and impressing me with her response to whatever the issue is. I don't see myself asking her to monitor any specific behavior, and while things must fall within my limits, I am changing for her not me. Like with a parent, I don't tell her what needs fixing, she tells me. That's what stirs the drink. I am punished and must improve because she thinks behavior modification is needed, and she acts accordingly.
That is theoretical. The ideal is to recognize that her judgment is sound, and through of combination of pain and humility, I bend to her will. The reality is likely not so simple, as I'm not submissive, and there are hard boundaries where my existing life can't be altered.
"Like with a parent, I don't tell her what needs fixing, she tells me. That's what stirs the drink."
DeleteSame here.
"The reality is likely not so simple, as I'm not submissive, and there are hard boundaries where my existing life can't be altered."
Again, same here. Though, it IS complicated. When she really took me to task regarding voicing opinions strongly at parties, that really does cut very closely to the core of my identity. And, I truly did struggle with her putting her foot down in that area. I am very sure I would struggle with it if it came up again. But, I also felt like eventually adjusting more to her point of view was about the closest I've gotten to real surrender to someone else's authority. Being punished for things I agreed should be punished may have affected behavior, but it didn't result in that much real personal growth. Being punished for something I don't fully agree with is way, way harder, but also feels much deeper and more real.
Hi Brett, perfectly stated. I agree wholeheartedly.
Delete-ZM
Like Brett my contribution is more mind orientated than experience. The FLDD Mrs GoodLife choses to facilitate, where I get maintenance time deducted for behavioural lapses, has resulted in me recently focusing on controlling my verbal anger directed at teenage daughters. Her focus on that is working. Similarly, going back to before we formalised (her version), I have made sure I eat when having a pub/football based meet up with friends. Wouldn't sat either behaviour is sorted, and I have been punished for the former twice this last two weeks, but I recognise the influence of her "lines" on me.
ReplyDeleteIn my original version of what behavioural standards I shouldn't dip under the two, of which I identified about 16, I really wanted her to hone in on are a) rampant slacking at work and b) stubbornness leading to rows with her. For me these are not areas dealt with my removal of privileges, they are crossed lines where immediate action is required. So far Mrs GL, who agreed we kept the straight handled cane for use after really bad behaviour, hasn't decided it needed using for either those two things or other stuff importantto her. Partly that is her high bar and partly that is, if I may say so boldly, because once I identified the behaviours to myself I now self-police a bit, so a form of it working but not due to the punishment.
Finally on this, and it I suspect is what divides FLR marriages that go the full hog from FLDD is the latter has an element of implied fairness in the decision to chastise. I, clearly in the FLDD camp intellectually, really believe DD would work on everything so long as it was practiced consistently. I still live in hope I'll be proved right by persuading Mrs GL to move nearer to my version of what needs to be done.
Cheers GLM.
Slacking and misbehavior at work (particularly my anti-authoritarian tendencies) was something I always thought *should* be addressed through DD. But, it also was the area where the practical issues seemed to make it the most unworkable. First, it would have required a level of honest self-reporting that wasn't going to happen. Second, I often thought I was *right* when I pushed back against management and, thus, I was unlikely to report problems because I didn't always see them as problems. Third, it wasn't an area she really cared about or that had any immediate impact on her, and I think those are almost always poor candidates to address with DD.
DeleteI have always been intrigued by the thought of having someone at work "tattling on" me to my wife and being punished for it. Like Dan, I always had practical limitations that prevented it or made it pointless.
DeleteHowever, my wife and I have recently started a business together (we work together very well, so I think it will be a better idea than it seems). In this case, it actually does make the concept of punishment for workplace misconduct or slacking off a workable possibility because:
- it will require no self-reporting, because she will observe my actions
- while I may be "right" when I push back against her, she will have a much different perspective on that...
- and finally, she REALLY cares about this business, so everything I do has an immediate and profound impact on her and us.
Now the question is, dare I mention it to her?!?!?!?
-ZM
It sounds like you may not even *need* to mention it to her!
DeleteThere was a really brief period where Anne had a consulting business that worked with my firm, and it put her in the position of working directly with me. I think we both agree -- never again.
Foe me, it's not about changing behaviour. I'm an adult and know perfectly well how I ought to behave and am self-motivated to do so. However, every now and then I disappoint myself. At that point, it's nice to have a husband who will help me to process my own disappointment in myself (over his knee!). I come away free of beating myself up over a past I can no longer change, with a renewed sense of energy and commitment toward my future goals.
ReplyDeleteP.S. none of this works if it's explicit. I need to be made to feel the naughty girl with him in the role of the disapproving Daddy.
DeleteJulie, I get that dynamic. While DD does work for me even when I'm initiating it (and, let's face it, 99 times out of 100 it's the male "bottom" who initiates) and identifying what I think should be corrected, it works much better when there is a sense of it being imposed whether I like it or not.
DeleteSeeing this, and looking at it more introspectively, I think my interest in DD is actually not all that genuine. And I'm always going on about how I'm only into "real" discipline. Honestly, I don't feel the need to improve myself through the act of punishment. As it is, my wife can change my behavior simply by being upset about something, which is painful for me. That's my motivation to change and, if for some reason I can't change, then punishment isn't going to help. However, being punished for something in my past, or something wrong that I did carelessly or irresponsibly, is my fetish. The punishment is likely not a lesson and deterrent like it was growing up. It's all consensual, and I know not to do it again. As an adult, though, it is still about having been a bad boy and getting a spanking from a parental authority figure. The profound humility would change me psychologically regardless of any practical benefit. If it did change my behavior, the benefit for me would be the excitement I get from the evidence of her wielding her power. The compelling idea is that she has effectively controlled me through this juvenile method of discipline. On the one hand, it must closely adhere to the dynamics of authentic punishment, yet, on the other, it is all in the service of my kink.
Delete"On the one hand, it must closely adhere to the dynamics of authentic punishment, yet, on the other, it is all in the service of my kink."
DeleteThe two aren't really mutually exclusive though, right? You say your desire isn't genuine, but it seems to me that would be true if you were saying that while you fantasize about DD, you do not, in fact, want it to happen. It doesn't sound to me like you are taking it that far.
My view is, there is a very wide spectrum of motivations in play for the commenters here. For some, like KOJ, the kink/fetish part of it is minimal to non-existent. At the other end of the spectrum, some are very into the fantasy of DD but not that interested in it as an actual lifestyle choice. Some genuinely want discipline, but that desire is rooted in the erotic energy they feel around it. For others, it's kind of the reverse, with the focus being the discipline and the erotic energy being an effect, not a cause.
Dan: "The two aren't really mutually exclusive though, right? You say your desire isn't genuine, but it seems to me that would be true if you were saying that while you fantasize about DD, you do not, in fact, want it to happen. It doesn't sound to me like you are taking it that far."
DeleteYes, my desire for "DD" is genuine. I would like it to really happen, but I'm questioning whether genuine discipline is my desire. If I define genuine discipline as an ambition to change, to improve myself, or to be a better husband, etc., then when I look deeper into my motivations, I recognize that I don't need DD to accomplish those goals. My desire has much more to do with being punished. This is what I think Julie is talking about. Instead of DD, it should be called Domestic Punishment (DP). My hypothetical strict wife may punish with the intent to improve me in some way, but that's for her to decide. As I said before, a spanking is not necessary for that purpose. If she punishes strictly because punishment is legitimately deserved, that is my fetish. The sexual aspect is central to my desire, but that's not what I'm focusing on here. Regardless of where we all fall on the kink spectrum, I'm talking about a desire for punishment as something different than discipline.
For me, "discipline" and "punishment" aren't strictly separable. Part of the drive for me is about improving behavior, performing better, causing fewer problems for myself, etc. Another part of the drive is about a desire for accountability, which could also be characterized as a need to be punished. Because they both extend from the same acts, for me the two aren't really separable. When I do something like being careless about something that ends up costing me time and money, I want *both* the accountability of punishment, and the incentive punishment provides to be less careless.
DeleteDD has improved me listening to her opinions , interrupting her and blaming her for things I did.
ReplyDeleteI'm much more cognizant of this now when we are speaking together or with others.
Interestingly , it was not just being spanked for this , but being corrected in front of others.
Once when I interrupted her in front of friends she sternly said , " Excuse me but I was speaking.Didn't we just talk about you interupting me?" (referring to a recent spanking for this).
It shut me down fast and I'm careful not to be admonished again like that.
Where it tends not to work so well is my male pride bristling when she asks/orders me to do something which I may not agree with.
If I object too strongly she can consider this me not listening to her opinion again which is a spankable offence ,although I don't always see it that way.
"Interestingly , it was not just being spanked for this , but being corrected in front of others."
DeleteI agree. The verbal strictness also may not play to the same spanking kink that so many have, which paradoxically may make it even more effective. It's all punishment or negative correction, without also stroking our kink.
I have recently been thinking about just what a huge component "verbal" is in all this, in many ways. I think verbal strictness is something that I really want, though only in juxtaposition with her normal kindness. And if others witness that, that is also a pretty big thing, especially if they can somehow know or assume that it is tied to physical punishment. My wife is one who doesn't really love to talk about things, but rather just does them, but for me, talking about them is in many ways more emotive than actually doing them. And finally, so much of what I probably should be punished for is related to what I say or how I say it (attitude, sarcasm, criticism, etc.).
Delete-ZM
I think both are very important, though I do think the verbal part is in some ways more "disciplinary," i.e. it has a more consistent actual impact on behavior.
Delete"And finally, so much of what I probably should be punished for is related to what I say or how I say it (attitude, sarcasm, criticism, etc.)." We talked about this just last night. Anne and I talked about this just last night. She has recently started "warning" a lot more about things like sarcastic comments, which is good. But, she hasn't really taken the next step and followed through on those warnings. I admit I don't quite get her on this issue, because the attitude and sarcasm arguably are things that have the most direct impact on her, yet they also are the things she rarely punishes for.
What has worked for us has been mostly things she had a personal interest in changing, because they directly affect her. The biggest struggle for me has been to cut back on my drinking, which has been pretty successful. There has also been success on changing smaller things, like leaving the toilet seat up. I was spanked for that yesterday, and today is maintenance Monday, so I will be pretty sore very soon. Other small things include leaving the cell phone out during dinner, and letting her sleep in, which she told me she doesn't want to do. Things that have not been as successful have been cleaning out the garage and other nagging chores that I never seem to get around to. That makes sense because she doesn't have as much of a personal interest in stuff like that. Usually I don't give her much reason to punish me, so when I do, I look at it as an opportunity. I would never consciously do anything to provoke her, but when I do annoy her, it gives her a chance to demonstrate her authority and put me in my place. The weekly maintenance spankings are always quite hard, and go on for 5 or 6 minutes, so I am very motavated to avoid punishment spankings. However, I occassionally do need a disciplinary spanking, and I am grateful to her for providing firm guidelines.
ReplyDelete"What has worked for us has been mostly things she had a personal interest in changing, because they directly affect her." I think that really is the #1 key.
DeleteThis is small and petty but Dev is a grammar freak. Certain words are a huge no no. I no longer say ain’t. It ain’t worth it. Lol. Recently I found the hard way that whore is much worse. I got caught twice on that one. There are other things but this came to mind quickly. JR
ReplyDeleteMy wife has issues with certain words I use, but she hasn't take the next step and actually punish me for it. Closer to the line is if I use a word she doesn't like as an insult aimed at a particular person. She sees that as being judgmental or boorish, and it was a part of what earned me one of the two particularly stern pre-spanking lectures I talked about
DeleteOver the years there have been two faults which have caused most of my discipline spankings. My language pattern and foul language. Being from the northeast and her from the southeast, language is much different. Northerners tend to inject many cuss words in everyday language where southerners tend not to. I was spanked for this quite often at the beginning my our relationship. The spankings did work for this and even now I am much more cautious of my language patterns. The other cause of many spankings is my forgetting to take my meds. I am quite good at remembering when we are at home, but tend to forget if we are out for a meal. I carry them with me and yet still forget. Later, she will ask if I took them and I am honest even though it means a spanking. I have been spanked many times for this and yet still forget quite frequently. We have discussed it and at times she will remind me during the meal to take the meds. This does not cause a spanking and I wonder if she would rather remind me to take them than to spank me later.
ReplyDeleteSoutheasterners do cuss, they just use alternative wording. "Bless his heart" is their version of "What a fucking moron."
DeleteI can understand a wife making taking your meds a big priority.
To some extent Dan my experience is the opposite of yours. DD has been effective in the big issues but not so much on the small ones. We established waaaay back that there were a couple of issues that earned significant punishment, one was incurring unnecessary costs such as late fees for missing a credit card payment date, the other was getting a speeding ticket. Not only has neither of these things happened for a good many years, but even now when I’m driving in a situation where I’m tempted to floor it, the likely severity of the punishment is at the top of my mind, more so than even the potential speeding ticket itself. On the other hand, I’m not so good at the little things. I was disciplined a couple of months ago for repeatedly failing to put appointments that we both needed to know about in the calendar. I was pretty consistent for a couple of months after that but last week dropped that particular ball again and received a rather more forceful reminder this time. It remains to be seen how long the lesson sticks this time. Over the last couple of years she had pointed out that I have developed a slight tendency to get into a grouchy or grumpy mood over practically nothing. I’ve been trying to watch for this and avoid it myself but am really trying to get her to jump on this any time it happens. I’m not sure if I haven’t been successful in getting her to react or if I’m just doing better at controlling my own moods, but I’m hoping that one way or another this is a behavior that can be brought under control. If bad mood = a pretty serious session, I think that will help reinforce my own efforts. TG
ReplyDeleteYour focus on credit card payments is similar to a suggestion I made to her a few months ago about carelessness. There had been multiple times when I was simply careless on some task or failed to plan and prepare sufficiently for something, and it ended up costing us money and me time. I do think DD punishment can be very effecting at making the recipient simply pay more attention.
DeleteSpeeding tickets fall into that category of things that neither of us feel strongly enough about to make it a priority. Mine seem to go in phases. I got many, many in high school and some in college, then went years without one. Then, I suddenly got four within a few months. It was more about luck than any behavior change.
The grumpiness problem is interesting to me. I've been in kind of a funk lately, but it's not so much about simply being moody as I feel like I'm just kind of pissing away time on unproductive, low-quality experiences (internet surfing, reading things that aren't worth the time, too much TV, etc.) I don't know that spanking for the mood itself would work for us, but it could work to focus on the behavioral failings that are leading to the bad moods.
I guess the grouchiness is an issue when it’s for no good reason and affects others. TG
DeleteMakes sense.
DeleteI find I'm a lot grumpier than I used to be. I attribute this to getting older. A big part of that is just that I've had the same frustrations over and over. After many repeats, the fact that they are still occurring just seems unjustified.
DeleteThere are really two things about anger (and other emotions) I think are significant.
First, they come from our beliefs. We get angry when something happens that we think is bad and shouldn't happen. Our minds filter events through our beliefs and create feelings instantaneously (it seems).
The only thing I've found that deals with this anger is to change my beliefs. But that's just hard to do, and requires a lot of introspection.
The other thing that makes me grumpy is technology. I think this is actually a big factor in our society and helps explain why people are so angry with each other. Everyone is under constant challenge to make technology work, and often it's just flawed.
On any given day, I expect to overcome numerous technology challenges. For example, today, my doctor's office sent two e-mail messages to provide services. One required a cell phone number to access, which is a challenge for me because I don't take text messages on my cell phone. But many sites want to send you text for advertisements and other reasons. The other was supposed to send a verification code, but none arrived. It probably got caught in graymail, but this was another snafu to work around. I'm sure overcoming these issues cost me at least a half hour of hard work.
This kind of technology challenge is constant in modern life. I suspect it adds a level of grumpiness to everyone. And then we take it out on each other! Instead of our electronic overlords, who are actually to blame. (Shhh! Don't tell them I said that. Oh. I put it on the Web. Oops!)
I don't know whether everyday technology challenges make me grumpy, though communicating with others through technology certainly can. Though, without that modern communication infrastructure, none of us here would be corresponding with each other right. Mixed bag, for sure . . .
DeleteWhile I'm not sure whether it makes me grumpy regularly, technology can certainly frustrate me enormously, to the point I've thought about tracking how much time I spend every month just trying to get various electronic gadgets to work or to work with each other.
Carelessness and other "small" things are something that my wife has not really punished me for. I think it is particularly difficult for her to do so, since the actual individual infraction might be quite small. But when seen in the context of larger patterns and their profound impact on our lives, I could see her making a bigger deal out of this. The same exact thing would apply to procrastination or lateness. Maybe once isn't that big of a deal, but all the time creates quite a few bigger issues.
Delete-ZM
You're right, cumulatively those small things can be a big issue. And, for me, carelessness and procrastination are very tightly intertwined. Often, me costing myself time and money due to carelessness began with me procrastinating and not doing something when it needed to be done or when I had enough time left to do it right.
DeleteGood topic KOJ. The things that have successfully worked for us are ones where either of us feels strongly about. I asked for her correction on my smoking if I was tempted to lapse when drinking. Similarly where she has used hard punishment to deal with things that she feels strongly about… use of words, carrot bags etc. other things that she has suggested that she will punished for but hasn’t done reliably have not changed. Maybe she doesn’t care enough. On the other hand she sometimes punished for things arbitrarily. Severely. I don’t repeat them!
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, the only changes that DD really has an impact on for us are those behaviors that my wife feels strongly about such as rudeness, disrespect, arguing & moodiness. We have talked about other stuff such as drinking, health, fitness, etc but she is clear in that she is only interested in correcting & changing behaviors that directly impact her and our relationship. So as an example I can get as drunk as a skunk as long as I remain positive & respectful - which is often a challenge both on the night and the day after!! TB
ReplyDeleteRe: drinking, my wife's position seems to be evolving to something closer to yours, mostly at my urging. In the past, I definitely was punished simply for over-consuming. But, I've told her that seems pretty pointless, and it also makes it far less likely that I am going to hang out with some of her boozy friends. On the other hand, there are times that it makes me boorish or, more likely, I stay up late watching movies or listening to music and wake her up in the process. In those cases, the excessive drinking had an impact not just on me but on others.
DeleteTB, is it possible that your wife chooses to spank you for issues like “rudeness, disrespect, arguing and moodiness” and not for big lifestyle stuff like “drinking, health, fitness” because she has an instinctive sense that the former issues are more amenable to discipline than the latter? I wonder whether a habit like heavy drinking or an addiction to cigarettes or something like that could actually be changed through spanking discipline. The danger of trying to spank you out of a habit when it likely won’t be effective is that it could undermine the effectiveness of spanking for everything else. Maybe our wives have an instinctive sense about which battles can be won with a hairbrush.
DeleteGH
ReplyDeleteAs others have mentioned, a behavior must be one that she is committed to changing. In addition, and especially for deeper behaviors, you must buy into the need and desire to change. But her focus on change is the critical factor, which she shows by asking about the behavior and talking about how it negatively affects her, both during scolding and outside of a punishment session. and punishing consistently and with increasing severity for failure to improve or recidivism. I think this proactive role on her part feeds into the need that so many have for feminine authority and can be a major motivator
As far as changing or eliminating major issues with spanking, we have dealt with smoking, drinking to excess (not stopping altogether), sexual misbehavior, and language issues. We have been mostly unsuccessful with eliminating drinking and temper tantrums and my challenges, bringing better balance to my work and personal life.
I want to be clear that some of the major issues have been eliminated but not all and occasionally (once or twice yearly at the most), she does have to revisit some that have been modified but not completely erased. She is comfortable with that, and we both consider those behaviors under control and easily reset with a punishment.
She is also comfortable knowing that ongoing discipline will be necessary to deal with some major issues (temper tantrums and moodiness are the most common)
For lesser everyday behaviors such as forgetting tasks, messing up the kitchen, sloppy chores, bathroom etiquette, and so on, it doesn’t take much serious spanking to make me think about these. If they are important enough for her to discipline consistently, the spanking can be near 100 percent effective for things like these that amount to weak habits easily altered. If I get spanked two or three times for leaving the cheese unwrapped or not completely closing the freezer drawer, I will remember to do those things pretty quickly.
It’s good to emphasize that both the big and the not-so-big issues will recur, especially in times of stress. In other words, it’s good to understand that not behavioral modification is probably never once and done. But in a mature DD relationship, the number of infractions should go down sharply with time.
Finally, I mention the one spanking technique that, for us, has worked every time except once early on –the preventive or prophylactic spanking immediately before an event. I think it’s the physical and psychological memory that works so well. But it does work.
Alan
"If they are important enough for her to discipline consistently, the spanking can be near 100 percent effective for things like these that amount to weak habits easily altered." I'm sure that's the case. While I definitely have slipped up a lot on locking and closing doors, it's also true that she has *not* been consistent in addressing it, even if it is important to her.
DeleteYou're right to emphasize that many weak habits may not be 100% cured forever. Everyone slips up from time to time. It makes me wonder, is it true--ironically so--that if DD does succeed in eradicating a serious habit, those habits may be more likely to actually stay eradicated in the longer term. For example, smoking. I quit on my own, shortly after I met Anne but long before we discovered DD. If she had used spanking to eradicate it, however, I think it would have stayed that way, simply because it was so freaking hard to stop in the first place. For the really hard-wired habits, I think I might be less likely to backslide because my own motivation to quit that habit would be so strong.
Like Brett and Julie, I don’t think I need my wife’s discipline to change my behaviour. However, I think I need discipline to accept the reality of having a FLR. Before FLR, I used to argue with my wife about how much housework I should be expected to do. I did less housework than she did, but I thought I did my fair share, given that I worked longer hours outside of home. She disagreed. FLR backed up by spanking discipline put an end to arguments. I now do whatever housework my wife tells me to do. Given that I have agreed to obey her, as a condition of FLR, I think she is generally quite fair. She could take greater advantage of her authority than she does. But there are times when I feel she is being unfair, and in those moments I am tempted to argue. She is, however, able to nip arguments in the bud by spanking me, or more commonly merely asking if she needs to spank me. Most of the spankings I get aren’t to deter bad behaviour as such, but to adjust my attitude if I am sullen or moody. For that purpose, spanking works well.
ReplyDeleteGH
"I don’t think I need my wife’s discipline to change my behaviour. However, I think I need discipline to accept the reality of having a FLR."
DeleteGH, your relationship is appealing to me in fantasy, but I question whether it would work for me in reality. For starters, I will accept the reality of our relationship without the need for spanking. After all, it would not exist if I wasn't completely in favor of the authority and roles we already agreed to. All she has to do is state her case, and I'll listen. I also am attracted to a woman who will be strong and take charge, however I am not naturally inclined to be submissive. I could not happily exist under a dictatorship, and while I could go along with her having a final say in an argument, and me not being allowed to argue past a point of beating a dead horse, shutting me up simply because she doesn't want to deal with my opinion would leave an issue awkwardly unresolved. As I've already belabored here, spanking for me is an act of punishment. If I'm not convinced punishment is deserved, then it has no special power over me.
Brett, you make good points. I think you and I are quite similar as concerns our punishment fetish. I don’t know whether I am naturally submissive. In fact, I have always had a tendency to rebel against authority, and I can be stubbornly argumentative. I am submissive to my wife because I have agreed to submit to her, but it isn’t always easy. But having to submit to her if she tells me to do something I don’t feel like doing, under threat of punishment, can be simultaneously onerous and sexually exciting. That’s the nature of my kink: if submitting wasn’t at least somewhat onerous, it wouldn’t arouse me. That being said, I don’t feel that I live “under a dictatorship.” It’s not as though I have to agree with her about everything. For example, I don’t have to pretend to like some Netflix program just because she likes it, and I am allowed to express my opinions. When it comes to my domestic duties, however, my wife expects me to do as I’m told, and arguing about that, or failing to do assigned chores, can result in punishment. In that sense, the power my wife wields is analogous to the power my parents had over me when I was a kid. I suppose somebody observing our FLR from the outside might conclude it is all an elaborate game to satisfy my erotic craving for “real discipline”. Maybe it is. But it feels real most of the time. If it didn’t, I would get no satisfaction from it. And to be perfectly honest, it isn’t always entirely satisfying. If it was, I wouldn’t have such a need to fantasize and talk about spanking, would I?
DeleteGH
"I don’t think I need my wife’s discipline to change my behaviour. However, I think I need discipline to accept the reality of having a FLR." That makes a lot of sense to me.
DeleteHaving said that I don’t need my wife’s discipline to change my behaviour, I just thought of one behaviour that she changed permanently some years ago. English is not my wife’s mother tongue. In fact, it is her fourth language. She speaks English well, but not perfectly. For that reason, I used to have a bad habit of “helping” her by finishing sentences for her. I thought I was being helpful, but she hated it. She felt that it made her look stupid. Before FLR, she complained about it, but I never learned. I kept doing it. After we began FLR, however, she decided enough was enough. I did it one too many times, and she exploded. She tore a strip off of me in front of friends, which left me red faced and speechless. Then, after the friends had left, she ordered me to go to the bedroom and take my pants down. Her anger was still red hot when she took the strap to my bottom. She only hit me about a dozen times, but she swung the strap with all her might, as she yelled at me and told me I was NEVER to do that again. That punishment made a deep impression for a couple of reasons. First, I was shocked by the intensity of her anger, so I felt remorseful about having been so insensitive to her feelings until then. Second, I hate the strap, not only because it hurts so much, but because it reminds me of the traumatizing way my father used to punish me with his belt. So it shook me up to be punished by my wife that way. The result was that my wife permanently ended a behaviour that she didn’t like. Since that day, I have never even felt tempted to finish a sentence for her.
DeleteGH
GH, though speaking hypothetically as someone who has no experience with consensual discipline, one aspect of spanking that makes sense to me is the communicative power of this form of punishment. In most cases, I think my wife would be able to get through to me with reasoning, and then bolstered by how upset she was about the issue. However, spanking is a more demonstrable and tangible way of expressing a level of concern. I relate that to how I was raised as a child. Knowing I had done wrong was one thing, but corporal punishment was the clearest message conveying what my parents thought about the misbehavior. There was no ambiguity, and no choice but to take whatever had led to the spanking as a dead serious issue that must be corrected. I think that's why I don't imagine spankings for trivial offenses or "just because" kinds of situations. Spanking is reserved for urgent things and, in that way, it is always to be taken seriously.
Delete"However, spanking is a more demonstrable and tangible way of expressing a level of concern." I agree with this! The things that DD has changed in me are those that my wife has zero tolerance for (i.e. punishes hard every occurence) whilst letting me know through words and demeanor that she is cross.
DeleteGH wrote: “I was shocked by the intensity of her anger, so I felt remorseful about having been so insensitive to her feelings…”
DeleteThat combination of a public scolding in front of friends followed by a spanking from an angry and enraged wife –and a spanking with an instrument that also delivers a mind -fuck—would be something I would never forget. Just my wife punishing me while still furious is intimidating, but all of it together, as you describe, has to rank with the party spanking that KOJ described a few weeks ago
Alan
Alan, you are right that the combination of those 3 elements made the experience unforgettable. I’m not sure how it would compare to being spanked at a party the way KOJ was. One similarity is that the intense scolding that left me red faced and speechless in front of friends felt like a public demonstration of my wife’s disciplinary status, and I couldn’t help wondering whether they guessed I was in for a spanking once they were gone. I don’t know whether my wife is aware that the strap is a “mind-f**k” for me, as you put it. I have talked to my therapist about the way my father used to punish me with his belt, but I have never talked to my wife about it because I fear that if I reveal to her that there may be some childhood trauma underlying my kink, she may conclude that DD is unhealthy. But she has undoubtedly noticed that the strap affects me more than other implements do, so that’s probably why she reached for it when she was really angry.
DeleteGH
Hi GH, obviously I don't know your wife but I have a similar issue that I have (just in the last six months after nearly 30 years of marriage) discussed fully with my wife.
DeleteI think that my need for spanking arose from a number of incidents when I was 13 in my first year at a boarding school and my absolute terror of the cane. She has always known that boarding school had been a bit traumatic but not the specifics.
In our case, discussing the specifics with her and how I think that they have created my need has really brought her on board with providing DD. I think that she now understands me a lot better and that understanding has really improved our relationship. It was embarrassing telling her about some of the issues, particularly where I did not display enough courage at the time but it has created another real connection between us. Because of the issues at school, and although it is not regularly used, I need the cane to be the ultimate sanction applied - my wife now understands this and is very comfortable with it. The last caning applied several months ago was far more severe than anything applied at school.
Different folks I know, but maybe talking to her about it would be a good thing?
YMMV!
Sorry GH, should have said... we have agreed that she should specifically use the cane and use it hard when she is really angry. Our normal implements are paddles and straps.
DeleteThanks for that input, Mark. I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels that the need for DD may be the result of childhood trauma. Do you know Jillian Keenan who writes and does YouTube videos about spanking. She is a crusader against the disciplinary spanking of children because being spanked as a child was traumatic for her. However, she is adamant that there is no connection between her sexual need to be spanked as an adult and that childhood trauma. I have sometimes wondered how she can be so sure of that. I think the reason she feels a need to reject a possible link is that she doesn’t want to pathologize a kink that gives her sexual pleasure. That’s why I have been able to talk to my therapist about it, but I’m reluctant to talk to my wife about it. I don’t want her to think there is something pathological about my need for DD, although I think there may be. But you may be right that talking to my wife about it could create a deeper bond. I totally get your desire to keep the cane as the ultimate sanction in DD, even though you had a terror of the cane as a youth. I really hate when my wife uses the strap, but for some reason I like the fact that when she decides what spanking implement suits her mood, she has that option at hand. This is a really weird fetish, but we didn’t choose it. It chose us.
DeleteGH
GH - for me the thing is that if my need did not arise from childhood experiences I have no idea why I have it. I think that school was the cause... for at least three years my thoughts were about girls, avoiding punishment from the masters, and avoiding being bullied (not necessarily in that order!).
DeleteThe point for me is that it is in the past, I'm not bothered about my kink and now that she knows more neither is my wife. We both are just enjoying it. In our house I am seriously punished when she decrees, but even outside that it is a constant. If I tease her about anything, like as not she'll come back with "are you looking for a spanking?".
"I think the reason she feels a need to reject a possible link is that she doesn’t want to pathologize a kink that gives her sexual pleasure."
DeleteI think Keenan's position is that her spanking kink preceded any traumatic childhood spankings, so the childhood spankings could not have caused the kink. She is adamant that she was a spanko from a very early age.
Yes, and that is absolutely fine and I don't have any reason to disbelieve her. Not the same for everyone (not sure if she accepts this or not?). In my case I absolutely no interest before I went to boarding school and was surrounded by corporal punishment.
DeleteYes, I think you are right about Keenan’s claim, Dan. And I guess one of her arguments against spanking children is that it is analogous to sexual assault for children for whom spanking is innately sexual. That’s WHY it was traumatic for her, if I understand her. I think her claim about herself may actually be true about me, but I’m not sure because memories of childhood aren’t very reliable, so it is almost impossible to determine cause and effect based on reconstructed timelines.
DeleteGH
I'm not sure what she thinks about anyone's origins except her own. She's definitely on the hard-wired fetish end of the spanking spectrum. I know she sometimes expresses that in a DD dynamic but often not. Personally, I have no doubt that in her case it seems to have been, as she suggests, innate, while in your case it was more environmental. I think anyone is on shaky ground in this area if they insist that because they think something arose in a particular way for them, it must have arose in the same way, for the same reasons, in others.
DeleteYes, given that she is “on the hard-wired fetish end of the spanking spectrum” (well put!), I was surprised to see one video in which she said she sometimes gets real disciplinary spankings from her partner. She apparently believes disciplinary spanking is possible, even though she gets erotic pleasure from non-disciplinary spankings that are beyond anything I could endure as discipline.
DeleteGH
That's my impression -- she definitely thinks there are disciplinary spankings and erotic spankings and they aren't necessarily equivalent. What I'm not sure about is whether she would say that on some level she gets pleasure even from disciplinary spankings. I'm not saying she does or doesn't. I just don't know.
DeleteGH - I haven't read her book in a long time, but I don't think that's quite right. I think for her the trauma was having a parent that was totally out of control, and it went way beyond being spanked by that parent.
DeleteConsidering that I will almost certainly never fully understand exactly what the origin(s) of my attraction to DD is, I have largely quite caring or thinking about it, and rather just accept that I want/need this and that is just the way it is.
Delete-ZM
“- I haven't read her book in a long time, but I don't think that's quite right. I think for her the trauma was having a parent that was totally out of control, and it went way beyond being spanked by that parent.”
DeleteI haven’t read the book recently either, but I think you are right that her issues with her mother involved erratic behaviour that went beyond spanking. But I remember being a bit confused about the significance of the one traumatic spanking she described and having to try to read between the lines. She claimed that it gave her PTSD and that it was more traumatic for her than being raped as a teenager. I found that difficult to understand. The conclusion I drew was that she felt that non consensual spanking, even by her mother, was a sexual violation more traumatizing than actual rape. Maybe I misunderstood her point because she didn’t really spell it out.
GH
ZM, I think your attitude is a reasonable one. Why spend time trying to understand something that can’t be understood with any certainty? I don’t know why, but I have an obsessive need to try to figure out why I am this way. It’s like a personality defect in itself. GH
DeleteGH, I agree she isn't very clear on some of these points. As is probably apparent, I have pretty mixed feelings about her. I give her huge credit for being so open about her lifestyle, not just in her book but also having an YouTube channel devoted to spanking issues. She also helped me understand the nature of a true fetish in a way I really didn't get before. But, I also think she has a tendency to make sweeping generalizations without much back them up apart from her own personal experience.
DeleteZM, my attitude is pretty similar to yours, though in my case it may be because I didn't have any desire for this lifestyle until I was in my late 30s. So, I'm very clear about when it first manifested and what that stimulus was. Now, that doesn't answer the "why" question, but I'm pretty sure I will never have an answer to that.
DeleteDan wrote: “Now, that doesn't answer the "why" question, but I'm pretty sure I will never have an answer to that.”
DeleteOne day, with the advances in epigenetics, we will have a pretty accurate idea of what in the human genome predisposes one to fetishes of any kind. The enormous number of stories from folks who were attracted to spanking even during pre-puberty (and I was one) is very persuasive evidence that genes are involved, genes which apparently are predisposed to express the fetish if environmental influences trigger that predisposition.
Frankly, it doesn’t matter to me very much where it started, but I deplore guys beating up on themselves in any way for the need.
Alan
Keenan is unique in her openness about her lifestyle and position that spanking kids is wrong. I would agree that spanking kids is certainly not a good way of communicating with them, and I never spanked my kids. However, my lifelong obsession with F/M spanking most likely came from my childhood experience of being spanked by a teacher from 1st grade through 3rd grade. My parents didn't spank me, and rairly paid much attention to what I was doing, so there were little or no boundaries. That may sound like fun, but it wasn't. It seems likely to me that my teacher noticing me and enforcing boundaries when I was very young is the reason I have this obsession with spanking. All kids need boundaries, and I believe not providing them is certainly not doing the child any favors. It is possible that being spanked by my teacher in front of the class was traumatic, and I sexualized spanking as a way to deal with it. Who knows? Being spanked on a regular basis has made me a much better partner, and has been very helpful to me in dealing with PTSD from the trauma of war. Of course, F/M spanking goes against the dominant culture, and M/F spanking has always been far more acceptable. As was mentioned, we didn't choose spanking - it chose us.
Delete"My parents didn't spank me, and rairly paid much attention to what I was doing, so there were little or no boundaries. That may sound like fun, but it wasn't. . . . All kids need boundaries, and I believe not providing them is certainly not doing the child any favors." That is basically my background as well though, unlike you, there wasn't any other adult who did impose any kind of discipline.
DeleteGabor Mate wrote a new book about trauma called the Myth of Normal. He feels that kids need to be emotionally connected with other caring adults that can be good role models, and not just left to hang out after school with their friends or glued to screens like so many are today. In this blog, there are many examples of us guys wanting more accountability, strictness, and firm boundaries. Many of us have been risk takers, often to the point of doing stupid guy things that women just don't do often. It is generally agreed upon that most of us seek a woman that is able to be an authority figure, and who will insist on honesty and accountability. We don't want to have to ask for a spanking, and we usually are relieved when we get one, particularly if it has been awhile. I am always grateful when she tells me that I am in for a spanking soon. One reason maintenance spanking works well for us is that it continues to insure I will be over her lap at least once a week, regardless of my behavior. It will not be delayed or forgotten. Before the spanking, she will calmy review how things are going, which reinforces her dominant role and my submissive one. It is always an intimate moment, and it is comforting to know she understands I need it, and it is good for our relationship.
Delete"Frankly, it doesn’t matter to me very much where it started, but I deplore guys beating up on themselves in any way for the need."
DeleteI agree, though as a small-L libertarian, I do wish that guys wouldn't beat themselves up because they would see what they are doing as a personal choice that is no one else's f-ing business, as opposed to believing it's ok because their genes made them this way. It's kind of how I feel about gay rights and gay marriage. I think gay rights gained acceptance even among some conservatives because the "they can't help the way they were born" argument is hard to refute. But, the immutability argument also means that people's choices may be respected only if those choices reflect some genetic component they have no control over. Both the deterministic nature of it and the potential narrowing of tolerance to only genetically-based traits bother me.
Understanding has no quarrel with tolerance.
DeleteAlan
I don't know . . . there are plenty of people I fully understand, frequently quarrel with, and simply cannot tolerate. :-)
DeleteAddendum to above
ReplyDeleteI described above what issues when spanking works for us and the need for buy-in from partners. But there also is a separate question of what happens when most or all of the “rules” become her rules you are expected to understand and obey.
You don’t come up with them, may not think they are important, or may disagree with them. But she enforces then in any case, maybe consistently, maybe episodically, but what and when becomes entirely her province.
I have no doubt some DD relationships lean this way very early or even from the beginning. Ours only did so incrementally over several years and is still a work in progress. It is a natural evolution if DD is kept in place after major misbehavior have been eliminated or ameliorated. It’s also a product of her gaining confidence in asking for what she wants and expecting to get it.
But it is qualitatively different from DD, where the rules are set by consensus between partners. I am told what she expects, and the consequences of disobedience are made clear. It is not a dictatorship. She takes pain to explain why and takes input from me. But they are hers, and her word is final about them.
This is where a loving, trusting relationship with a sane and sensitive woman makes all the difference because whatever control over the disciplinary aspects of your life you had-- or thought you had-- is minimal. Sometimes it’s exhilarating; sometimes, it’s a little scary; Sometimes, it’s just plain inconvenient to stop what seems so important and instead go and fetch her strap or put myself in the corner because now she has " time to deal with this"
But it’s also what I thought I always wanted. –and still do –usually
Alan
"You don’t come up with them, may not think they are important, or may disagree with them. But she enforces then in any case, maybe consistently, maybe episodically, but what and when becomes entirely her province."
DeleteThis summarizes nearly exactly why the concept of "surrender" has been on my mind a lot over the last few months, particularly surrendering to very real authority.
Well put, Alan. For me, DD is based on being with a loving, sensitive, woman that understands my need for discipline and guardrails. Of course it is inconveint sometimes, but that's a small price to pay for having a balanced and basically happy life. For me, it is also what I always wanted, and needed, even though I have had a lifelong challange accepting it. Surrendering to her authority for me is the ultimate turn on for me. Wish I had started down this path long ago, but better late than never.
DeleteNorton wrote: “Surrendering to her authority for me is the ultimate turn-on for me.”
DeleteBeyond a doubt, this is the defining moment, but maybe because we are going through it now the transition to wife-made rules and expectations is starting to seem to me like something very different. Discipline is still completely consensual but her rules and expectations are more and more not consensual.
That needs to be defined. Essentially it means they are not necessarily shared goals, but behaviors and performances she considers important or necessary that matter little or none to me. Dan’s example of locking doors illustrates what I mean as well as various day-to-day things I pay little attention to and plans she makes without consulting me. (“I thought I told you”.)
It still is the ultimate turn-on, but it makes me think about how much giving up control drives DD desires. I wonder how many spankos or would-be spankos jump out of airplanes for a hobby. It has to be a similar feeling
"Discipline is still completely consensual but her rules and expectations are more and more not consensual." Very succinct way to put it.
DeleteOur disciplinary wife relationship has always been more about keeping my arrogance, sarcasm, temper, strong language and other alpha male tendencies in check more than specific behaviors - which she has to regularly "spank out of me" (to use one of her favorite lines). The thing is they don't really stay fully gone for any extended period - but regular spankings (including maintenance) do at least moderate these tendencies. Additionally, I will say that I did learn early on in this lifestyle to stop interrupting her when she is talking and to listen more carefully - which was a reasonably successful behavioral modification (I still get a reminder spanking for interrupting on occasion).
ReplyDeleteLike Alan's wife, my wife is also a believer in preventative/prophylactic spankings - the "remember to be good" spanking before company arrives, an event, party, or trip, etc. These are reasonably effective - as my bottom is still stinging during the event, and still sore two or three days for vacation trips - so there is that constant reminder.
In fact, we were on vacation last week. And just before we got in the car to leave, she delivered a thorough bottom blistering with a reminder to behave myself around her family (whom we were visiting for part of our vacation). Unfortunately, toward the end of our vacation, my attitude lapsed - and in a way that really upset her. So, I ended up getting a motel room spanking (with the "switch" / "mini-cane") just a couple of hours before we left - so I drove with a sore bottom coming and going on this vacation. --al
wrote …“ Unfortunately, toward the end of our vacation, my attitude lapsed - and in a way that really upset her…”
DeleteYes, that is the nature and limitation of a preventive. Their half-life is probably a day or so and more than three days in any kind of stressful situation makes them less effective. But your timing sounds like it was bad, since a few more hours of good behavior, and you would have been on the road. Look at it philosophically though: if you were that close to being in trouble, you probably would have earned a major spanking on the way home -and who wants to come home from a vacation to a paddling?
Alan
"Our disciplinary wife relationship has always been more about keeping my arrogance, sarcasm, temper, strong language and other alpha male tendencies in check more than specific behaviors." You and I sometimes sound very alike. It was sarcasm, arrogance and strong language that led to my strongest lectures and hardest spankings over the last year. Unfortunately, those are, to a large extent, core temperament issues that, as you say, are almost impossible to truly get rid of though DD can help moderate them.
DeleteFor us, we got started because of my procrastination, which caused us some serious financial issues; and because of my selfishness, which tends to result in my being a slob. Think, leaving mugs in the bedroom, socks in the family room, dirty underwear on the bathroom floor in the morning.
ReplyDeleteWhat has worked? Well, I still procrastinate, but not to the point of the problems for which we started. A couple of years ago I did get spanked for being a little late (a day) paying our property taxes. It wasn’t as bad as the “How I Am Spanked” on the DWC website, which I wrote, but I was bruised for a week. I am, however, much more prompt now.
It has also been successful, in large part, about stopping me from leaving socks and underwear and mugs around. My last for socks was a week ago, but it was for an incident about 2 months ago that we were just getting to.
Less successful, well, I have three spankings coming when I get home from the northwest. For being late to take my morning pills (x2 since I’ve forgotten before) and for failing to get some Allen wrenches ro fix the storm door. It’s the one off things that are getting me these days.
Two months would, for us, be a very long gap between the offense and the punishment and very likely to be forgotten. I go back and forth on whether that's good or bad . . .
DeleteWhat is interesting is that I didn’t plan to bring up what I was owed. Ann did, which to me signifies that it means something to her. As much as I dreaded the additional two spankings, I wasn’t about try to evade them. After all, I asked her to hold me accountable and to spank me. Actually, I was impressed!!
DeleteI certainly wouldn't have brought it up either.
DeleteHello I think I've read your blog before and I just read a couple of pages worth. So I'll comment a little about what works with me and combine it with previous posts about hotel spankings. My wife has spanked me for about sixteen of almost twenty years of being married. I don't think I was really ready for marriage and settling down and that's where my wife stepped up and decided to get me in line. Drinking too much was an issue especially when I was younger and my wife curbed it a lot when she began spanking me for it. I'd say it worked over time better when she became more determined and consistent. I realized she was serious about me taking her seriously when we went to a wedding reception at a hotel out of state so we stayed at the same hotel. I was told only one more and ended up getting another drink after that one.
ReplyDeleteMy young wife was angry when she saw me with a fresh drink. She came up to me, scolded me and said she knew what was needed. She told me put the drink down and come with her.
There were no spanking references but we were within earshot of the bartender and one of my wife's friends and being scolded and told what to do like that was embarrassing.
We went up to our room where my wife whipped my bare butt with a belt. I then had to give her oral sex, she was very wet and excited. After that I was surprised when she had me go over her knee to use a leather sandal on my butt and thighs which were already really sore.
I felt very self conscious when we returned to the reception and I'd been warned I'd get the same for every additional drink my wife saw me with. I drank juice or soda the rest of the night and my wife checked my drinks. I have no doubt she'd have taken me to our room again if I'd have drank. I think Ive had a healthy fear of my wife and respected her more after that time.
I'll leave it at that, I have a lot of experiences that are mostly unpleasant when I'm getting them but it's probably helped and solidified our relationship.
"I think Ive had a healthy fear of my wife and respected her more after that time." I totally understand that "healthy sense of fear" and, while some may see that as a negative, I personally see it as a positive because it makes our DD seem more "real" in terms of the loss of autonomy and control.
DeleteBehavior successfully changed was mostly for things which my wife finds most irritating to her, and therefore they were strictly monitored and punished - like leaving toilet seat up.
ReplyDeleteNot succesful are mostly staff related to self reporting- like not eating sweets.
Yeah, self-reporting is tough, at least for me.
DeleteDan,
ReplyDeleteGood evening to all. What works for us tends to be my attitude towards her at times and for not getting back to her in a timely fashion. After one of her surgeries, I would head out to the gym and fail to text her. This would upset her and a spanking would come soon thereafter. Like you Dan, it never worked for a reduction in my alcohol intake. I have been punished for it but we both have placed it on the back burner. The reason, it’s such a big part of our social lives. All of our friends drink. So it never made much since to punish for it. Although as I write this, I’m once again sitting on a very sore tender bottom. I went out with some friends and we ended up back at our home. We finished a few bottles and my friends left. My wife came home and tried to explain an issue that she had at her volunteer group. I really was not in the mood to hear it and I made a sly comment. We ate and we went to bed. When I arrived home from work, she informed me that I was to receive a good and proper thrashing for my insensitivity toward her. I obliged, even though I was exhausted. That thrashing hurt bad and I told her multiple times during it, I was sorry for my insensitivity. She said she felt much better after whipping my bottom. DD works for my insensitivity and for my failure to communicate . I complete most chores so it doesn’t really work for those issues.
T
"The reason, it’s such a big part of our social lives. All of our friends drink." Same here, and some of Anne's friends are very big drinkers.
Delete"She said she felt much better after whipping my bottom." This is an important nuance to the "Does DD work?" question. Work for whom, and in what way? If it makes the wife feel better and she feels she made her displeasure crystal clear, then on some level it "worked."
Definitely part of our dynamic! My wife literally enjoys spanking me and always feels better afterwards. And most of the time, I feel better (emotionally) afterwards as well, even with a sore, stinging bottom. --al
DeleteImmaturity has certainly been a problem for me since the early stages of our marriage and DD has helped with that. Things like bad language, tasteless comments, and bursts of anger were especially offensive to wife when others were present. So when those episodes occurred, she made certain to administer a serious spanking as soon as we got home or company left. My behavior was obviously embarrassing for her and she didn't hesitate to let me know every time.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't take long before there was a noticeable improvement in my public behavior, so Beth began to tolerate less in private too. As she pointed out, if I can control myself with others, why should she have to put up with it? Good point, but spanking hasn't had the same effect in our day to day lives. Maybe it's more difficult to monitor and know when I've crossed the line that way. And there is definitely less pressure for me to be on my best behavior when it's just us.
Fairly recently, Beth has disciplned me more consistently when I don't control my temper. As I've mentioned before, she refers to these as "tantrums" and they are never directed at her. Instead, they are a rather juvenile expression of frustration, and therefore my wife sees spanking as a very appropriate response. I have to admit that it has been fairly effective since she started using it regularly and I continue to make progress on that front.
Kevin
"As I've mentioned before, she refers to these as "tantrums" and they are never directed at her."
DeleteI do something similar, though it's not entirely true that mine aren't directed at Anne. They are directed at pretty much anyone who happens to be around me at the time and, like yours, they usually are an expression of some kind of frustration. Often like a plumbing or mechanical problem that I'm trying to fix. I'm intrigued that spanking is helping with your tantrums, because I've never known whether it would with mine, as they tend to be so spontaneous. On the other hand, if punishment was certain enough and harsh enough, there probably are all sorts of "spontaneous" behaviors, attention problems, etc. that I would find a way to get on top of.
Kevin, having “tantrums” like that is one of the things that gets me spanked sometimes. When my wife spanks me for that, she makes clear in the scolding that I deserve to be punished like a child because I am behaving like a child. That is extremely humbling. However, my wife is less consistent than yours about punishing me for that. I think it depends on her mood. If she’s in a certain mood, she will spank me because it gets on her nerves. But sometimes she lets it slide because it doesn’t bother her enough to discipline me, I guess. I can imagine if she adopted a zero tolerance policy, it would curb that behaviour more effectively.
DeleteGH
Dan, the same scenarios with fixing things trigger me too, and if Beth's not around I'll go through my usual histrionics. Lately though, her presence is a reminder for me to take a deep breath. I'll see her giving me the look, and if it goes much further she will tell me to stop acting like a child. Left unsaid is "or I'll have to treat you like one".
ReplyDeleteKevin
It's definitely true (for me) at least, that just knowing certain behaviors are being actively monitored makes them much less likely to happen.
Delete"It's definitely true (for me) at least, that just knowing certain behaviors are being actively monitored makes them much less likely to happen."
DeleteCertainly true for me! --al