You learn a lot more from the lows because it makes you pay attention to what you're doing.” – John Elway
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly on-line gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you had a great week. Mine was pretty laid back, which was kind of what I needed after the preceding week’s adventures. That week’s adventures were on my mind a lot, however. Here’s why in a nutshell, as it was the impetus for this week’s topic.
It was a fun time, and it really was an adventure. Like most adventures, it required quite a bit of preparation, including specialized equipment. I’d been on a somewhat similar excursion before and had some of the necessary equipment already. But, I hadn’t done much recent maintenance on it and didn’t check it until a few days before the trip. As it turned out, some of it was worn and really should have been replaced. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get that done in time and decided to risk it.
While it was a genuine oversight, it was sloppy. It also wasn’t really excusable, as I’d booked the excursion months in advance and had plenty of time to prepare. Worse, the group running the show sent out an extensive memo a couple of weeks before the trip, and it covered most of the needed preparations. Anne read it promptly and even asked the status of some of the things I needed to do. I dawdled and let some of the prep time run out.
In addition to not maintaining or replacing some key equipment, I neglected to bring some helpful gear with me. I had put together a checklist, yet somehow I still managed to forget to pack some of it. None of it was strictly necessary, but it definitely would have been helpful to have it.
While no catastrophe ensued because of any of these oversights, the failure to maintain or replace some gear did create some problems for me and also put one of the group’s coordinators to some extra work helping me remediate one of the deficiencies.
Unfortunately, if I’m being honest, my sloppiness was probably par for the course. I have a tendency to wing it, and I’ve never been very detail oriented. Anne even asked me recently how I can be so lackadaisical when my career actually required a lot of attention to detail. The simple answer is I had really good, detail-oriented people under me and around me.
Unlike many other times when my lack of preparation and planning has created problems, this time I really did get angry with myself. In the past, I could excuse it to some extent on the basis that I was crushingly busy and couldn’t always stay on top of everything. Truth be told, however, that level of busyness was a reason to get more organized and systematic, not a good excuse for being less so.
When we first began experimenting
with domestic discipline, our focus was on reducing “big ticket” bad
behavior. Like drinking too much or too
often. Disrespect. Temper tantrums. Although our general rule, from the
beginning, was that she could spank for any reason, in reality, most of the
focus has always been on (a) reducing or eliminating (b) bad habits and
problematic behavior. There has never been much emphasis on (a) developing or
fostering (b) good habits and productive behavior.
It's not like there has been no attention on “small” things like being more focused and attentive, but it’s been sporadic. A few months ago, I posted about Anne getting mad about me failing to lock doors in the house before bed or before going out. It’s not that I don’t recognize that it would be desirable to lock doors at night, even if I’m not quite as paranoid about it as she is. But, given how many times it happened, it plainly was something I just wasn’t paying much attention to.
And, it’s not like I don’t see a value in being more focused, attentive and systematic in my approach to day-to-day stuff. I definitely recognize that my tendency to wing it has cost me and others time and, in some cases, caused a fair amount of stress when things went wrong and might not have had I been paying more attention. In fact, I suspect that one reason I got so interested in the whole Nexium “sex cult that preached empowerment” thing is because it seemed to focus on helping people create sufficient leverage—in the form of negative consequences—to develop better habits, work harder, hit performance goals, etc.
It's not hard to envision all sorts of “small” lapses in attention or failures to focus that can cause problems big and small:
- forgetting to pay a bill on time, thereby incurring a late fee or taking a hit to your credit score
- failing to balance your checking account
- forgetting some minor commitment at work that made things harder for your boss or a co-worker
- forgetting to lock the doors on your car, allowing someone to get in and take something
- failing to get recalls on your car addressed, creating a potential safety hazard
- forgetting to take full garbage cans to the curb on pickup day
- didn’t adequately prepare for a presentation at work, causing some small but real hit to your reputation
It really could be anything.
How about you? Are there things you know you don’t pay enough attention to? Things you fail to prepare for adequately? Maintenance and repairs that should be addressed but aren’t? Other lapses in attention, diligence or care?
Are there things like that you get spanked for? Are there things like that you aren’t spanked for but know you should be? Are there things like that you genuinely wish she would spank you for, because it would elevate your performance or save you or others from unnecessary work or stress? Tell us all about it.
I don't want to give away to much but we travel a lot. I used to fly somewhere every week for work. I had to be detail oriented and prepared for anything we now travel together ful time living in a trailer. I have lost my focus and have become reliant on her to keep track of everything. However, she believes in delegation of certain things. I have been spanked a few times for not doing something she had reminded me of more than once. I sometimes think if she was more stickt about things I forget to do over and over that ou life would be easier. Like spanking me for ignoring her check list. I one left a very expensive piece of equipment behind. She was mad but did not spank me even though I deserved it.
ReplyDeleteI had a similar work lifestyle. I saw myself as lacking attention to detail even then, though it's all relative, right? I do think that if you go from that kind of frenetic lifestyle to living in a trailer, there can be a period where you get lazy as hell and over-compensate in the opposite direction of the busyness and organization you had in work life.
DeleteDan, we just returned from a
ReplyDeletemini vacation. We had an absolute blast and I spent a lot of “quality time” with my wife. I didn’t get a chance to respond to last weeks topic. I would say that I don’t think for us it would make much of a difference. I don’t get spanked as often as others, so when I do it’s quite painful. While on vacation, I stepped out of the shower and my wife gave me a quick hand spanking on a wet bottom and I could definitely feel it for quite sometime afterwards. She said, I wish I had a brush. I wish my wife would spank more often for my attitude at times. I’m pretty detail oriented when it comes to our bills and the required household tasks that men complete. I think part of the problem is when you tackle a lot of tasks and complete them in a timely manner, what can she punish you for. Where I tend to struggle is with my attitude about work and the stresses that go along with them. I can empathize with you Dan on the drinking aspect. Although I don’t drink daily, when I get together with the boys, we tend to over indulge. I wish I was spanked severely when I go overboard the next day. As you know, we are still newer to DD and I am trying to encourage her to assert her authority on things that are important to her. While we were on vacation, I told her I had a weird dream. I told her she had me over her knee beating me with the wooden spoon and our female neighbor knocked on the door. She continued to spank and initially ignored the door, she then became frustrated, removed me and said I’m not done with you. She answered the door, with spoon in hand, and said to our neighbor “it’s not a good time Jane”. She half closed the door and went back to blistering my bottom. The look on Janes face was priceless. She said why was I spanking you? I told her probably my attitude! She told me tomorrow she would remind me about my attitude. We will see how that turns out. I was surprised how vivid that dream was. I continue to communicate my need for punishment when she see fit. This has been a bit of work coming from erotic spankings that lead to great sex. I also agree that I feel so much closer to my wife after a good beating. Although I dread them, they are few and far between, I’m hoping they happen more often with continued communication. I like others on the blog, want to get to the point where sex is an absolute no no after a good beating. I would
go a step further and wish my wife would force me to orally pleasure her after punishment, with no release whatsoever for me for a week. Baby steps I guess.
T
I get the desire to apply DD to over-indulging, though I can also say that while it is probably the #1 thing that has gotten me spanked over the years, it is also the area where I think spanking has had the least effect in terms of real behavioral change. Commiserating with friends over drinks is just too hard-wired in my personality and identity, and key to my over-indulging is that after a couple of drinks, I just don't think *at all* about consequences. I literally do not think of the prospect of DD at all after two drinks, even if I was thinking about it as I walked into the bar or restaurant.
DeleteWhen we addressed a similar topic back in 2018, several people made the point that DD is most likely to work with "small" things like chores, personal goals, etc. and less likely to work with big, ongoing issues that are more deeply rooted in one's personality. I've come to believe they are right.
"When we addressed a similar topic back in 2018, several people made the point that DD is most likely to work with 'small' things like chores, personal goals, etc. and less likely to work with big, ongoing issues that are more deeply rooted in one's personality. I've come to believe they are right." - I think I largely agree with this, with some conditions.
DeleteObviously, DD is unlikely to bring about drastic changes to one's personality, and I don't think most people would expect it to (or want it to). So for example, if I am naturally inclined to negativity and grumpiness, DD is unlikely to change my fundamental nature to become a happy natured optimist. However, it could cause me to change how I treat and interact with others, so I don't take my grumpiness and negativity out on them. And it is even possible that if it controls how I display my negativity and grumpiness, given time it might even begin to shift the underlying feelings.
For ANY change, the most significant thing is recognizing the need for change and actually wanting to change. In the case of the drinking excesses in social settings, it is at least somewhat likely that at some deep level, you don't really want to change because you enjoy it quite a lot, and as you said, it is tied up in your very identity. I know that is the case for me with many things. But if there is something that you really want to change and are committed to changing, whatever it might be, DD can be a helpful tool.
"....key to my over-indulging is that after a couple of drinks, I just don't think *at all* about consequences." - I think this applies also in many things, for different reasons. I gave the example a few years back about eating sour gummy bears, and if I pop one in my mouth, I am likely to eat the whole bag without even being aware that I am doing it. It is just kind of an autopilot thing. The same is true with snacking; once I start, I am not likely to stop quickly. Overall, it is harder to control behaviors than it is to entirely stop them.
Having said all this, one thing that comes up quite frequently is the whole thing of "if your wife has to keep punishing for you, then it isn't working." I don't buy into this AT ALL. Sometimes controlling something is all that can be hoped for, or maybe it is good enough. As long as the threat of discipline keeps me somewhat in check, good things can happen, even if it doesn't completely extinguish a behavior.
And "T," I like your dream!
-ZM
"In the case of the drinking excesses in social settings, it is at least somewhat likely that at some deep level, you don't really want to change because you enjoy it quite a lot, and as you said, it is tied up in your very identity."
DeleteI think this is mostly right, but with some nuance. I think that drinking socially is tied up in my very identity, for sure. I'm a big Ted Lasso fan. Scenes of Ted and Coach Beard sitting together in their neighborhood pub talking about their coaching, the team, their lives . . . that's me and some buddies from my old work team in a nutshell. Some of my best times in life have been sitting in a small, quiet bar, having beers with a friend. I definitely enjoy social drinking very much.
What I *don't* like is not having a normal off switch. Drinking socially is core to my identity; drinking to excess isn't. Yet, my brain seems to be wired such that I can have one or two and be fine, by after that the "off switch" just vanishes. The problem this creates for me is that abstinence becomes attractive after a binge incident, yet I hate the whole idea of giving up on those quiet sessions with a friend in a pub.
I do think that while DD has not come close to solving that conundrum, it does put some guardrails around it. I don't think it does much to temper particular incidents, but I do think it has an effect on how often I drink, discourages ever getting into the habit of having a daily drink at home, etc. (Drinking at home is not at all core to my identity. I'm not into having drinks with dinner, having a nightcap before bed, having a beer watching a game, etc. 90% of my drinking happens in a social context.)
"Having said all this, one thing that comes up quite frequently is the whole thing of "if your wife has to keep punishing for you, then it isn't working." I don't buy into this AT ALL. Sometimes controlling something is all that can be hoped for, or maybe it is good enough." I totally agree, and sometimes tempering behavior really is all that's needed.
"So for example, if I am naturally inclined to negativity and grumpiness, DD is unlikely to change my fundamental nature to become a happy natured optimist. However, it could cause me to change how I treat and interact with others, so I don't take my grumpiness and negativity out on them. And it is even possible that if it controls how I display my negativity and grumpiness, given time it might even begin to shift the underlying feelings."
I agree. I'm a big believer in the principle that action often precedes attitude. People think they need to change their attitude and then different actions will follow. I think it's more likely to work the opposite. Attitudes are hard to change and it takes lots of time. You can always decide to change an action associated with an attitude even if you don't really believe in the change. And, if you keep doing that over time, your mind can eventually reprogram itself such that the attitude better matches the action.
Hi T,
Delete"I like others on the blog, want to get to the point where sex is an absolute no no after a good beating. I would go a step further and wish my wife would force me to orally pleasure her after punishment, with no release whatsoever for me for a week." - There have been a few over the years that maintained that they do not have sex on the same day that they receive a punishment spanking. I think that is the minority position, though I could be wrong. Others have found that the excellent communication, feelings of closeness, and a totally clean slate make sex even more likely after a punishment spanking. Probably that is also a minority position, again not sure. And finally there are those that don't really link the two things, and they have sex when they are in the mood. I expect those are the majority.
We usually have sex at night after punishment spankings (which usually occur earlier in the day or in the evening). However, we usually have sex most every other night too, so it is kind of hard to tell if there is a connection or not.
While we have never done it, I could see my wife using enforced chastity for some number of days as a punishment or as a supplemental punishment. Or another thing I have thought about is in those cases where punishment is announced but delayed, she could make me wear a chastity cage that will not come off until the punishment happens. Depending on how much she felt like toying with me, she could tell me that I have to beg to be punished until she is convinced that I am sincere and truly feel bad for whatever it is I am being punished for, rather than just trying to get out of chastity. But as I said, we have never done anything involving this at all.
-ZM
We are in that second minority, i.e. the one in which sex generally happens after a spanking. Not always, but very regularly.
DeleteYou and your wife do amaze me with the sex every day thing. We weren't that active even back when she was in college and I was in my early 20s.
With us, sex normally happens straight after a spanking. As you say, there is the feeling of closeness that both of us feel after a spanking. My wife isn't interested in forced chastity punishments, because the aim of punishments is to bring us closer together after the issue has been closed. My wife's view is that if other punishments (including forced chastity) are still necessary after a spanking, she hasn't spanked me long enough or hard enough and therefore needs to continue until no other punishments are in mind.
DeleteT,
ReplyDeleteThis is a great comment for me because I am trying to transition us from erotic spankings to disciplinary. I too sometimes remind him of his authority to punish me. Recently he commented about my smart mouth and I said, "The best way to shut my mouth is your big hand on my bare behind!" He chuckled but did not spank me and I was so disappointed!
I also agree to being made to perform oral sex after punishment and denial of sexual release for me to reinforce his authority and enhance the spanking with denial.
I also like the idea of relating to him all of my dreams. I am a bit embarrassed about my sexy spanking dreams, but I need to step out of my comfort zone. I think he might enjoy hearing about them.
Regarding the post topic, I am a very organized wife and love keeping house for my husband. But there certainly are things I forget. One is that I sometimes leave my purse in the car in the garage. That seems safe to me with the garage door down, bur my husband has explained that thieves can have a bunch of clickers and be able to open a garage door. I have done this several times since he told me not to, and I wish he would spank me for it.
Dan, I really agree with your wife about the doors being locked. It upsets me when my husband forgets to do this, and a couple of times I have stormed our of bed to do it myself. I know that's a bad attitude but I worry about our safety! If I ever was going to spank him, this would be why!
Cynthia Ellen
I've brought it up here a few times before, but it it's odd that for something that consumes so much of my conscious mind, my unconscious seems remarkably uninterested in spanking. I've had a few dreams related to disciplinary spankings, but they stand out largely because they are so few.
DeleteI get the door thing, and I'm not sure why I had a streak of not locking it. Though, it does reflect a fundamental difference between my wife and I when it comes to personal safety issues. She is one of those people who almost looks for things to be concerned about, while I tend to assume everything will work out fine. Honestly, I don't think either of us is "right." She's too concerned about ephemeral risks, while I tend to understate threats that really could happen. My allusions to the things I overlooked on this recent adventure are an example. The one that I'm the maddest about is something that could have resulted in a personal safety issue, and it was one that could have been prevented had I been more on top of things and taken the issue more seriously.
Interestingly, I can't recall a single spanking dream - after 20 years as a spanked husband and fantasizing about it for years before that.
DeleteI can relate on the garage door. It is my job to do a final check of the house every night, including making sure the doors are locked and the garage door down. Somehow I missed this last week, and my wife happened to be go out to the garage before I did the next morning - to find the garage door had been left open all night. Fortunately, nothing was missing. But it cost me a serious spanking before I even had breakfast. I doubt I will forget it again any time soon. --al
I've had the garage door problem as well recently, though I maintain there really are times that you can try to close it, but the light hits a sensor in just the right way or something else happens, and it reopens before closing entirely. But, a good, hard spanking probably would help me remember to watch it until it closes completely.
DeleteCynthia, it’s definitely been easier said than done on the transition from erotic to disciplinary. I feel your pain. My wife knew about my being spanked as a child. I purchased a paddle early on in our relationship. I should probably have communicated my needs more earlier on in the relationship. I think at the beginning, I definitely did not want her to think I was a freak. I applaud you for doing so with the subtle hints. I only deeper into our relationship have professed my desire more to be punished. As I have stated before, she thinks it’s a reward more than anything else. I encourage her more after a spanking, even if it leads to sex, to utilize it more often as a tool for said infraction. I told her that she would benefit more if she handled my attitude right on the spot. I feel like in her mind, he won’t comply, but I definitely would. Dan as for the dreams, I cannot tell you how many I’ve had over the years. Way too many to mention. There have been some good and not so good. There have been also ones revisited from youth. Good or bad,
DeleteI’m not quite sure. Like I’ve said, I wonder what it would be like to be hard wired differently than I am now. While at the beach on vacation, I watched the attitude of a husband towards his wife on forgetting something. He wasn’t nice but not abusive.
My first thought was he needs a good thrashing. He wouldn’t address her like that again.
"I feel like in her mind, he won’t comply, but I definitely would." I think this was a big challenge for my wife, for a surprisingly long time. She told me once that the root of the problem was she just couldn't understand why anyone would really want hard spankings, which made her always question whether I eventually would balk. While progress has been an ongoing process, at some point she read a book I gave her called "The Hesitant Mistress," and something seemed to click with respect to her understanding why someone with my kind of wiring wants it. I don't know why that booked caused things to click, because in my opinion the Disciplinary Wives Club website does at least a good a job of reassuring wives that, yes, some husbands truly do want and need this and, when they do, it needs to be hard and real. I think some of the difference in my wife's reaction may come down to the fact she, maybe surprisingly gets off on the FLR and D/s elements more than I do. She actually seems to like bossing me around, assigning chores, etc., even though she doesn't do it that often. The DWC website is, unsurprisingly, very DD oriented and while there are fairly strong FLR elements in some places, it's not front and center. "The Hesitant Mistress" definitely is more D/s and FLR oriented than DD.
DeleteIt took my wife years to work up to a true disciplinary spanking. She says that she doesn't fully understand why I want this. However, she is no longer bothered by spanking me long and hard. She knows I won't balk and agrees that the punishment is helpfull
DeleteI suspect that unless you are the one requesting this kind of lifestyle, it will be very hard to understand why anyone would want it.
DeleteT
DeleteThanks for your advice. I have encouraged him to address my attitude on the spot, but like your wife I don't think he believes how well it would work.
I did recently tell him a vivid dream about going over Brad Pitts knee, and he said I was naughty and I thought this is it, but instead he told me to perform oral sex to show my loyalty, which I did but would have much rather done with a red bottom.
Cynthia Ellen
I used to be spanked for small things...in fact every small thing, like forgetting to turn lights out in a room I was not longer in. Most of that was during my training period. Things like that dwindled off as time progressed. I guess that has morphed into my long and quite firm maintenance spankings.
ReplyDeleteMaybe a "training period" is what I need, even if 15+ years into a DD relationship.
DeleteWe have only been into DD for a couple of years and I still think she sees it as some kind of game until last night. She did something I really don't agree with and I told her to stop or I would spank her. Big mistake she reminded me who was in charge and sent me back to bed then when she came to bed she demanded a change of attitude. When I refused she got back out of bed got the paddle and pulled the covers back needles to say I ended up over her knee getting the hardest spanking to date. I love this woman and I did ask her to to take charge of me so what could I say even though I disagree with what she was doing I need to accept her authority and the attitude adjustment she administered. When it was over she had damanded my respect
DeleteI love her for it and I believe it will help my attitude towards her today. I hope she sees this as a new training period to enforce her authority.
We are the opposite of you. We started with punishment for small things like missing chores. My wife worked hard to be consistent. I am spanked every single time I fail to do what I am supposed to. She is working on punishing me for upsetting her. She has very limited success at that.
ReplyDeleteDon't misunderstand... I am still spanked for things like missing or not completing chores and all the major offenses. It is just the minor things she now takes care of with long maintenance sessions.
DeleteDan, you are correct about commiserating over drinks with the boys will never change. My wife knows this and your probably right that no amount of DD will correct it. I’m not knocking spanked cowboy or lion, but if u guys are still getting spanked for trivial small things, then is DD really working for you? My ultimate goal is to never receive a severe disciplinary spanking from my wife. I know I need it and we still work at it, but to be spanked for forgetting to turn a light off seems absurd to me. My ultimate goal is to not disappoint my wife. I don’t usually ever fail to complete a chore or a task. I’m not perfect by any stretch, believe me, but to be in DD and still getting punished for minor tasks seems trivial and defeats the purpose of DD. So does that go back to you guys just enjoy being spanked hard? I guess something to ponder.
DeleteT
"but to be in DD and still getting punished for minor tasks seems trivial and defeats the purpose of DD." Thanks T, but I can't agree with this one. I think it presumes that DD has a single "purpose" that all agree on and that is the goal for all couples. I've also come to believe--as I say in the post--that for most people DD is less likely to work on big, sweeping problems that are deeply-rooted habits or personality driven and much more likely to work on more modest annoyances, goals, etc.
DeleteI remember a while ago - maybe a couple of years - when for one reason or another it had been quite a while since a spanking. I guess we both felt a subtle change in attitude developing over time. Let’s just say that the relationship was gradually becoming less FLR. Eventually she responded and I got one *** of a spanking that set things back on track again. Sometimes it doesn’t have to be for anything specific, it just needs to be a reminder of how the relationship works. If I’m honest, I wish this happened more often. TG
ReplyDeleteThings can definitely drift. I find that I sometimes hit a point where I think maybe DD has served its purpose in our lives and it's time to move beyond it. Inevitably, something happens that illustrates exactly why I still need the guardrails DD provides.
DeleteWe noticed the drift and instituted "just because" spankings. If I'm not punished for something specific and I go unspanked for too long, my wife gives me a "just because" spanking. It is every bit as severe as a punishment for missing a chore. These spankings keep us both focused.
DeleteWe call that a reminder. TG
DeleteI am only ever punished for disrespect, rudeness, deliberate disobedience, moodiness, sulking or arguing and never for trivial stuff or chores. Occasionally for drinking too much but only if it leads to or is caused by one of these behaviors. I have suggested using spanking for monitoring and encouraging my personal goals around weight, fitness and similar but she does not feel that would be appropriate. She likes to keep the discipline very focused on anything that directly affects her, our relationship or domestic peace, an approach that I am comfortable with. TB
ReplyDeleteWhile I think it could be great to have a spouse use DD to help with personal goals like weight and fitness, I can also see how many wouldn't be very enthusiastic about addressing issues that don't have any real impact on them personally.
DeleteI see where you guys are coming from, but at least from my perspective, my weight and fitness have a huge and direct impact on my wife and her future. If I die prematurely, or even just have serious health problems, that will have a pretty profound impact on her, and of course our relationship. Maybe my weight or fitness don't affect her that much right now except maybe she would prefer for me to have a more chiseled body, but my future health is largely a function of the actions I take or don't take right now.
Delete-ZM
-ZM
Hi ZM. I don't disagree at all, and I think it's a great thing if a wife steps up to enforce things like fitness and weight goals. My comment was just that I suspect some wives may not be into punishing things that don't have a direct--and I probably should have added "immediate"--effect on them. I agree that a spouse's fitness can have a big impact on the rest of the household, particularly if something goes wrong. But, it's more attenuated and less certain than something like an attitude or behavioral problem that impacts her directly in the moment.
DeleteIn the DD relationship I imagine, spanking is a punishment reserved for serious offenses, and where there is real shame involved. I don't see getting that emotionally charged over little things or mistakes anyone could make, and if spanking becomes too routine, it loses its special power. However, part of her being in charge, and wielding her authority, is that she may need to teach me what is important to her. If we are compatible, her judgment is ultimately good.
ReplyDelete"[I]f spanking becomes too routine, it loses its special power." I can see that being a problem, though the question would be, it's special power to do what? The tension is between the power to titillate and the power to effect a real behavioral change.
Delete"…the question would be, it's special power to do what? The tension is between the power to titillate and the power to effect a real behavioral change."
DeleteDD for me is still basically a sexual motivation. As long as the idea remains exciting, I'm probably going to remain committed to it. Real behavioral change is an ingredient of the excitement, but it's more about how it's achieved than the pragmatic result of discipline. Growing up, spanking was far from routine. When it happened it was a very special event, though not one I ever wanted. The idea of it happening often, or for trivial reasons, doesn't fit my model.
I do dumb things at times, unknowingly, and they annoy Cindy while we are making a meal. She immediately picks up the soup stirrer, tells me to bare my bottom and bend over. Using spanking to correct little faults for many years, has us very compatible now. I do the things i like (I like shopping for groceries, planning dinners with her agreement, stockpiling stuff from Costco, doing the laundry, banking) We share gardening, and Cindy is the chief cook. Being retired, I used to ask where we might like to go, and then plan the inexpensive way to do the vacation, but Covid has us reluctant unless well planned out.
ReplyDeletebottoms up
Red.
Hi Red. Glad to see you're reading if not posting. I miss your blog!
Delete"Using spanking to correct little faults for many years, has us very compatible now." That approach makes a lot of sense to me.
I hope you get comfortable traveling again soon!
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteGlad to see the “small things” topic come around again. I think my wife and I have done quite a bit more than most with using DD as a training tool to try to develop better habits and increase my productivity through our “boot camp” approach and our weekly check-ins. And generally, I would say that it has worked and is working! It is admittedly still a work in progress, and we trudge forward with frequent lapses in consistency, but both my wife and I have seen the benefits. The check-ins have not happened for a number of weeks now, but that is more a function of summer, having a kid home from college, etc., and I think both my wife and I are anxious to resume on this.
The topic of “small things” always has an inherent amount of tension in it. At first glance, giving someone a real punishment - which must be quite severe and painful to even be a real punishment - just for doing or not doing some small thing certainly can feel unfair or even petty. And in fact, if these small things existed in isolation, it would be unfair to give a hard punishment for some trivial matter.
But the reality is that these little ”lapses of attention and judgement” (as you so aptly called them) are rarely isolated incidents. If we are honest with ourselves, most of the time they are part of much larger patterns. When viewed individually, they are trivial, but when the patterns - and their inevitable consequences - are seen clearly, it becomes clear that these are actually some pretty big self-inflicted problems. In the end, your life (and indeed your character) is the sum of all the little things you think, do, and say.
You mentioned above that DD seems more ideally suited to take care of small things like chores, personal goals, and minor annoyances than it is to address huge issues that may be deeply rooted in personality. I agree fully, but when you think of the cumulative effect of all the small things, consistent, long term focus using DD to correct small things can end up addressing many of the huge issues too.
“And, it’s not like I don’t see a value in being more focused, attentive and systematic in my approach to day-to-day stuff.” - Being more focused, attentive, and systematic in approaching day-to-day stuff sounds a lot like the definition of discipline. Becoming more disciplined is not particularly fun in and of itself, but it can and likely will lead to a much happier, healthier, longer life, with way less stress along the way, improved finances, more security, faster career advancement, better opportunities for your children, a happier marriage, and countless other benefits. Considering all these important things in life that are greatly affected by “small things,” the “small things” label seems pretty inaccurate.
Every time we talk about this, I feel compelled to quote Emily Dickinson, who said, “If you take care of the small things, the big things take care of themselves.”
I’ll address your specific questions in a separate post below.
-ZM
"But the reality is that these little ”lapses of attention and judgement” (as you so aptly called them) are rarely isolated incidents. If we are honest with ourselves, most of the time they are part of much larger patterns."
DeleteA few weeks or months ago, I said something here about how I felt I needed more strictness across the board, because I seem to either be on course in most areas or falling apart in most areas. My self-discipline or lack thereof comes and goes in waves, and it's seldom just one area that is out of synch. I fully agree with you that the cumulative impact of addressing lots of small things can be very big, and for me those little things kind of have to be addressed simultaneously.
Given that lots of aspects of my life seem to rise or fall together, I'm sure there is one or more personality attribute or big habitual approach that underlies many of them. It's great the you can identify procrastination as your big underlying problem. I can't quite put my finger on mine. The closest I can come is self-indulgence. I'm not great at saying no to things, even when I know doing them is counterproductive in terms of other goals I've set. Also, in-line with my comments in this week's post, my wife said just a day or two ago that she thinks my core problem is I just don't pay attention to things going on around me, particularly the details. Yet, if you asked people on my old team at work, I know that many of them saw me as sometimes *overly* detailed and prone to getting way into the weeds on things.
"...my wife said just a day or two ago that she thinks my core problem is I just don't pay attention to things going on around me, particularly the details. Yet, if you asked people on my old team at work, I know that many of them saw me as sometimes *overly* detailed and prone to getting way into the weeds on things." - It is interesting just how different we can act (and be) in different facets of our life. Perhaps you were this way at work because you felt like you needed to be, and maybe you don't feel the same need when at home? I think for me, a lot of my behavior is driven by what I "need" to do, so if I really think something is necessary, I will probably make it happen, but if I am not totally convinced of the importance, I will delay it (sometimes permanently).
Delete-ZM
"Perhaps you were this way at work because you felt like you needed to be, and maybe you don't feel the same need when at home?" That's probably true. Because I was the leader of the team and the one my clients looked to as in charge, there definitely was a "the buck stops here" aspect to my work. At home, very few things are going to blow up if I'm not on top of the details. Also, somewhat paradoxically, I had to pay more attention at work because there were aspects of it that I wasn't that well-qualified for. Some of our work required a fairly granular technical understanding of the subject matter, but I'm not very technical. I had to pay a lot of attention to the technology involved because usually I didn't understand it at first. So, I would get pretty into the weeds just to make sure I was understanding things correctly.
DeleteNow on to your questions…
ReplyDelete“Are there things you know you don’t pay enough attention to? Things you fail to prepare for adequately? Maintenance and repairs that should be addressed but aren’t? Other lapses in attention, diligence or care?” - This applies to most things in life. I am severely lacking in self-discipline. I somehow have miraculously been able to weasel out of most every crisis my lack of discipline has caused, but always with great amounts of stress, and almost certainly I have not had the success in any part of life that I expect of myself. I fail to reach my own goals because I lack self-discipline. It is not that my life is a train wreck. I have actually achieved a lot in life, and if I died today, I would feel like my life was pretty well lived, and I know that I have had and continue to have a positive impact on the world and all those around me. But, my life is NOT the life I could have and should have. I have missed countless opportunities because I wasn’t really prepared.
Your mentioning unaddressed maintenance and repairs really resonates with me. If it is not critical, it tends to get pushed to the side, which might be ok if I ever got back to taking care of it, but often it never gets addressed, or if it is, it is only because it has blossomed into a big, often costly problem that is impossible to ignore.
“Are there things like that you get spanked for?” - I am rarely spanked for letting things slide (such as repairs), though it has happened occasionally.
“Are there things like that you aren’t spanked for but know you should be?” - All the time, but of course each time I am happy to avoid being spanked.
“Are there things like that you genuinely wish she would spank you for, because it would elevate your performance or save you or others from unnecessary work or stress?” - For me, this is where it all changes. I said above that I am rarely spanked for letting things slide, and each time I get by with something, I am happy to avoid punishment.
But when you get to the heart of the matter, and what do I “genuinely wish” she would spank me for, it is not for all the times that things don’t get done, because they are mere manifestations of my core problem, which is procrastination. Almost every problem I have in my life traces back to procrastination.
I feel like the first picture you put this week pretty much describes me perfectly: ”You didn’t ‘forget’ - you put it off because you didn’t want to do it, then we got busy and not it’s still not done.” In the caption, she continues with “Which adds up to a spanking.” But for my wife, it doesn’t seem to go that way very often. Even if she does punish me like maintenance, it is inevitably for not getting something done on time, rather than for procrastinating in the first place. So I often am able to procrastinate and procrastinate more, and then somehow pull off the impossible at the last minute. The problem with this is that every time I procrastinate and then somehow pull off a miraculous save at the last minute, it reinforces the whole destructive pattern.
So, on a deep level, I genuinely wish that my wife would punish me as long, hard, and often as necessary to change my habit - really more of a lifestyle - of procrastination. But at the same time, I am terrified of the very thought of it. I don’t know if it is because I feel that my procrastination is so embedded that I could never change, or that I would hate to give up that much control, because I like retaining the option of starting things at the last minute, or merely because I don’t like being spanked when spankings do happen. And probably she is just as afraid to address this (for her own reasons) as I am for her to address it. But, I can confidently say, the day my wife puts her foot down on procrastination is the day that our DD becomes VERY real, and probably also the day that it takes a significant step in the FLR direction.
-ZM
"I somehow have miraculously been able to weasel out of most every crisis my lack of discipline has caused, but always with great amounts of stress, and almost certainly I have not had the success in any part of life that I expect of myself."
DeleteI could have written that about myself. I've always been a master at doing things that could lead to disaster but somehow managing to squeak through without serious consequences.
I too have held myself back through a lack of discipline, but it's been more about attitude and temper than, in your case, procrastination. There were so many times that it would have been easier to bite my tongue than to take someone on in the hierarchy above me, and I just couldn't do it. The reputation I think acquired was as someone with a lot of integrity, who could "brute force" to get a lot of things done, but also as a "bomb thrower" who sowed a lot of chaos.
While I'm not sure it held me back very much, I do share some of your proclivity for putting things off until the last minute. My bigger failure probably was in not setting bigger goals for myself that could have lead to bigger rewards. I had plenty of ambition, but where others would sacrifice and adjust to get their goals, I tended to focus on my core professional expertise and didn't spend enough time on things like networking and service.
Unfortunately, these are the kinds of things a wife is unlikely to see, so even if she might want to address it, she is unaware of it when it is happening. Is your wife in a position to see concrete instances of your procrastination?
"My bigger failure probably was in not setting bigger goals for myself that could have lead to bigger rewards. I had plenty of ambition, but where others would sacrifice and adjust to get their goals, I tended to focus on my core professional expertise and didn't spend enough time on things like networking and service." - I think both of these apply at least to some degree. I have often set my sights lower than I should have, though admittedly I have also set out to do some pretty outrageous and almost impossible things, and often have succeeded. The part about focusing on professional expertise at the expense of things like networking is totally me.
Delete"Is your wife in a position to see concrete instances of your procrastination?" - Yes, I make it so easy and obvious that anyone who ever enters my chaotic world can clearly see it!
-ZM
Dan
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to me that You mentioned a need for a training period even though you have been in DD for over 15 years would you define that has being spanked for even small things. I think that is what I want maybe because I want her to feel completely empowered in her authority and I need to know that she takes her authority seriously. If she let's little things slide I am disappointed. I know she doesn't want me over her knee 24/7 but if she just doesn't say anything I don't think my behavior will change. Maybe she is not aware or not listening and I need to self report but if I do and she does not take action then I get frustrated thinking nothing will ever change. My bad habits will continue. We have had discussions because I don't believe she thinks it will change anything but I don't think she is giving it enough time and effort. I need that training period and I think she thinks I am an adult and should just grow up. However, I know my bad habits won't go away without consequences.
My comment was really in reference to Spanked Cowboy's reference to having gone through a training period. We never had anything like that, but I do see a big value in the kind of approach that ZM describes above, basically getting spanked as hard and as often as it takes to get to the core of a pattern of bad behavior.
DeleteYour comment also implicitly raises the question of who exactly is being trained? On the one hand, it is the misbehaving husband. But, it's also the disciplinary wife who may benefit from being trained, i.e. conditioned to turn to spanking or other punishment regularly, particularly whenever some ongoing behavior is annoying her or pissing her off.
I get the "you're an adult, you should just grow up and change" thing, but I think the response is that obviously if I could do that on my own, I would. I'm also always a little suspicious of people who suggest that changing behavior is easy. Maybe they are just low energy people who don't have much to change because they are born rule-followers who are able to conform easily because they are just natural conformists.
My wife and I have talked several times about having a very intense time of zero tolerance, for perhaps a 6-8 week time, that would basically like boot camp. Of course, it would still be much less structured than real boot camp since we are not together 24/7, but during this time I would be learning what real discipline looks and feels like, with no procrastination or slacking off on anything. We have never done this, partly because it is hard to fit into regular life.
DeleteDan, I love your question about who exactly is being trained. I definitely believe it is both, and perhaps the wife even more than the husband, since ultimately she is the one who determines where the lines are and makes sure that when he crosses them, she pushes him back. I really think the primary impediment to DD in our relationship is my wife simply doesn't even think of turning to spanking or punishment whenever she is irritated or sees something that she doesn't like. Only later does it usually occur to her that it would have been a great opportunity to correct it.
Absolutely agree on the whole difficulty of changing. In fact, most people left to their own devices never really change. I had never thought about the rule-followers thing, but that would make a lot of sense. Anyway, anyone who naturally has self discipline will find it hard to understand what it is like to lack that.
"I know my bad habits won't go away without consequences." - There is no doubt that your bad habits already have natural consequences, but the problem is that they don't happen consistently enough and quickly enough for you to change your behavior to avoid them. That is where DD helps me the most, by providing immediate consequences that hopefully change my behavior and avoid the likely much worse delayed consequences that would naturally flow from my poor choices.
-ZM
At this point in my life, I don't think there are too many major transgressions anymore. But there are still plenty of areas that need attention. My first hairbrush spankings from Beth were for not doing chores and picking up after myself. In those days, she remind, cajole, and nag me to take care of things. Meanwhile, I would be hoping that if I delayed long enough, she would just do it herself. The first disciplinary session was fueled by a lot of frustration. Over the past several years, I've been spanked for the same reasons, but Beth no longer waits so long to bring out the hairbrush. Knowing that, I'm much more attentive to my responsibilities.
ReplyDeleteSo for me, spankings are all about little stuff and a need for the occasional reminder from my wife. I'd describe those spankings as rather quick and efficient. As I said, there really aren't many major transgressions at this point, but there was an incident earlier this year when I was rude to Beth's sister. When we were alone, I experienced a much more serious spanking than I had become accustomed to. It was deserved though, and I followed up with a sincere apology to my sister in law.
Kevin
Meant to address the comment immediately below to you, Kevin.
Delete"Meanwhile, I would be hoping that if I delayed long enough, she would just do it herself." Said every husband everywhere at some point in time! LOL.
ReplyDeleteQuick and efficient has a lot going for it. In the past, our approach to spanking was anything but. Long waits followed by lectures and lots of different tools. Over the last year, we have simplified and taken a very "back to basics" approach, mostly OTK with a bath brush, hairbrush and occasionally a leather strap. I think it's now much easier for my wife.
There is nothing wrong with scolding or some reflection time spent in the corner, but if a disciplinarian wants the fastest results for a given behavior, make the punishment as certain as possible, as immediate as practical and severe enough he will remember it and remember while it happened for a long time.. Of these I think consistency or certainty may have the most effect on behavior change. If I absolutely know for certain that A ( a particular behavior) with near 100 percent probability will result in B ( a severe spanking) and it is ( C) going to happen right now or very soon --if I know all that , the behavior in question is going to change assuming I am not a complete idiot.
DeleteAlan.
I totally agree with that recipe for behavior correction.
DeleteReflection time in the corner actually detracts from the message in my case. I either start doing something like meditation and basically zone out, or I just get bored and start thinking about things on my to-do list, the book I just read, the latest news, etc. It does absolutely nothing to reinforce the punishment.
My wife put me in the corner one time in the very beginning, but decided it was "just silly" - she could find much more productive uses for my time (but - to each his own, of course). Like Dan, it really wouldn't work well for me either - my mind just stays too active. --al
DeleteMy experience with corner time has varied, though my wife has only used it from time to time.
DeleteThe times that she has had me wait in the corner before a spanking have been probably at least somewhat effective because I did tend to think about the imminent spanking, though probably not the reason. The same is true during a few super hard punishments that consisted of several rounds. As I was already very well punished and having a hard time even imagining any more, and waiting for it to happen, I was pretty focused. However, I think this worked better when DD was pretty new and I was still trying to get used to just how much spankings hurt. Now that I am more used to them, I tend to be more like Dan and my mind kind of wanders wherever it wants.
The one time that corner time worked super well was during the time that I was spanked while my wife's friend was in the other room. In between rounds of spanking, my wife told me to stand in the corner until she would text me to get in position kneeling on the bed, blindfolded and with my butt elevated and "one of them" would be there soon to spank me. She did this several times, and even though I was 99% certain that it would be my wife who came in to spank me, 99% sure didn't feel even close to 100% sure! Needless to say, those minutes in the corner were very focused, and when I was kneeling in position on the bed each time, it was almost hard to breathe because it was just so intense.
"Of these I think consistency or certainty may have the most effect on behavior change. If I absolutely know for certain that A ( a particular behavior) with near 100 percent probability will result in B ( a severe spanking) and it is ( C) going to happen right now or very soon --if I know all that , the behavior in question is going to change assuming I am not a complete idiot." - Absolutely agree!
-ZM
My experiences with corner time have ranged from the “yawn” effect Dan describes to the much focused experience ZM mentions. One of the best uses of it was my former GF who only used it before a spanking, made sure it was embarrassing and brief. She used it very consciously to help transition me from my day job role to a disobedient or misbehaving male who was going to be punished. Oddly, she never to my memory used it after a spanking although she did use it a few times in the middle of long spankings.
DeleteMy wife is just the opposite in almost never using it before a spanking but almost always afterward. She often uses a corner where I must stand on my toes to put my nose flush with the wall which pushes my bottom out which creates very submissive feelings. She has also used a coin requiring me to hold it up with my nose only. She has mentioned severs times that she enjoys the view, watching me stand there pushing my just spanked and usually very red bum out. My exhibitionist self finds that part to it exciting
Alan
Hi Alan,
DeleteI do think that the transition from feeling like an in-charge kind of guy to feeling more like a chastised little boy is quite a key part of the whole punishment experience. Corner time can certainly help in that process if used before spanking and if the duration is just right. I think "embarrassing and brief" sounds about right.
After spanking, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it feels like the punishment should be over and the slate wiped clean, so no reason to extend it. On the other hand, I too have felt the submissive feelings of standing there with my red bare bottom exposed (she has also used a coin before).
In general, I think that spanking/punishment is pretty much ALL about humbling, and ANYTHING that enhances that humbling makes the whole thing much more memorable and effective than could ever be accomplished by increasing the physical impact, assuming we stay clear of Singapore caning type scenarios and their attendant lifelong scars.
"She has mentioned several times that she enjoys the view, watching me stand there pushing my just spanked and usually very red bum out. My exhibitionist self finds that part to it exciting" - considering my morbid fascination with witnesses, it is probably no surprise that I immediately imagine this happening with witnesses in the room after a witnessed spanking. I think time would almost stop, and I am sure that if this ever happened, I would remember the feeling of those minutes the rest of my life...
-ZM
ZM WROTE: “…considering my morbid fascination with witnesses, it is probably no surprise that I immediately imagine this happening (DOING CORNER TIME) with witnesses in the room after a witnessed spanking…”
DeleteI can imagine that being very exciting for the disciplinarian as well. But strangely enough that is one of the few times my wife does not use post spanking corner time. Except for the first time she pulls my pants back up and sends me off to do a chore or finish one. I may ask her why she doesn’t use corner time when a witness has been there, but her sister has been around this summer and the topic has not come up lately. Also I am very embarrassed at that point and happy to be out of that room”
ZM ALSO WROTE: “I do think that the transition from feeling like an in-charge kind of guy to feeling more like a chastised little boy is quite a key part of the whole punishment experience.”
Absolutely and I have thought about why the age regressing and humbling make it so effective and I have concluded it temporarily strips away all the roles and false ego defenses taking us down to a very primal level. This may also be why spanking can be so intimate. My former GF used to say something like “baring your bum is also baring your soul” (a paraphrase). There really is a process of opening up emotionally that happens
Alan
That is exactly how I have felt in my two discipinary spankings! That I was baring my soul as well as my bottom. It was so intimate! I didn't cry during the punishment but I did after as he held me and comforted me. I have never felt closer to my husband. Then he entered me and the closeness seemed to last forever!
DeleteCynthia Ellen
My wife usually uses corner time in place of spanking because she knows I hate it. So for small but repetitive behavior I am put in the corner before bed the more she saw or heard something the longer the time in the corner. I usually start out thinking about what I did or said that got me put in the corner but then boardum sets in and that is the true punishment going back and forth between why I did it and how boring this is
ReplyDelete