Sunday, October 24, 2021

The Club - Meeting 387 - Community, Reporting, Asking for It, Etc.

“Get comfortable with being uncomfortable!” ― Jillian Michaels

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.

 

 

Finally, Halloween weekend!  I can’t wait for it, yet as with Christmas, I am sure I will be sorry to see it go.  I hope those of you in countries that celebrate it have a great time.  I’ve even looking forward to handing out candy to trick-or-treaters this year, since last year we got virtually none thanks to Covid.

 

 

I thought we had a good, wide-ranging discussion last week.  It seems like we do always find new angles from which to address the topics of witnesses and others knowing. I do want to thank Alan for telling us about the two instances in which others have overheard one of his spankings.  I had been in a bit of a funk where DD was concerned, and his story of his girlfriend and a friend coming home from shopping and his girlfriend sending upstairs for a spanking really was, for me, quite arousing.  I even told my wife about it, as an example of the level of control or openness that I find both fascinating and scary.  So, Alan, thanks for sharing.

 

I also need to reflect more on the general topic of openness and the associated concept of community.  Caged Lion brought up the community aspect of some kinky practices:

 

I think that one of the appeals of the DWC was the opportunity share and validate disciplinary experiences. I spent many years as an active member of an in-person BDSM organization. It felt good to be among "my" people. We are social animals. DD is an isolating experience. Sex isn't because even though we don't share it with others, we all know everyone does "it."

 

That's far from the reality for those of us who practice DD. It would be nice to have a community, no matter how small, to validate our practices. In my capacity as a member of BDSM organizations, I've spanked and have been spanked in front of others many times. I never thought about the people watching while I was in the scene. It felt good that my kink was validated by others (lots of others!).

 

ZM concurred, but also pointed out the limitations of this current blog when it comes to community building:

 

[I]t would be great to have some sort of community to validate our practices. We do have that here, but the anonymous, virtual nature of it does take away somewhat compared to live human interaction.

 

Believe me, I too feel the desire for more community and am acutely aware of the blog’s limitations in bringing one about.  A few years back, I had an email exchange with Aunt Kay of the Disciplinary Wives Club, and I still recall her describing its get-togethers as being fun precisely because they were a “naughty shared secret.”  I also admit to getting very aroused when Tomy has shared stories about being sent to another wife for a spanking or when other husbands were sent to Aunt Kay.  Even without something that participatory, it would just be nice to have more genuine human contact around this whole thing, and it is clear that the thing that most gets in the way of that is our collective desire for anonymity.  The reason Aunt Kay and Tomy were able to foster something deeper is, as far as I can tell, because they were willing to give up anonymity and simply trust others a bit. 

 

I’m not really sure where I’ll take this desire for community over time.  Perhaps nowhere, as I haven’t gotten any signal from Anne that she has some burning desire to be more open about this, though perhaps one helpful development is that since buying her new bath brush, she has taken to leaving both it and the ebony hairbrush on very open display on the countertop in our bathroom.  We had been leaving the hairbrush out for a while, but there was little about a hairbrush on display where one would normally use a hairbrush that was likely to draw attention.  The two brushes together, and the bath brush several feet away from the shower and bathtub, seem far more likely to get a quizzical reaction from anyone who might see them. Of course, the only one likely to see them would be one of the kids, but that in itself is evidence of Anne getting a bit more risqué in allowing others a veiled glimpse into this side of our relationship.  As ZM’s recent adventures with openness demonstrate, you never know what will happen once even a small change starts to happen.

 

In that vein, it’s funny how much can change in a week. In last week’s post, I admitted to feeling pretty uninspired by blogging and even about DD itself.  That happens from time to time, but I really was starting to wonder whether we had hit some inflection point and that going forward it might not be as big a thing for us.  Yet, for no apparent reason it came surging back this week with a vengeance.  Well, it’s not quite true that it was for no reason. I do think that Alan’s stories about overheard spankings partially triggered some renewed interest.  A friend of mine in a M/f dynamic also let me know that after an unavoidable hiatus, she and her husband recently got back on track. 

 

 

Further, I think my need for accountability once again asserted itself once it had something to react to.  As I reported last week, my behavior has improved in major ways over the last year. But, over the last couple of weeks, there were a couple of incidents that suggested things might be drifting, or at least that things could if some of the behavior wasn’t nipped in the bud.  It was on my mind last week, to such an extent that I was on the verge of asking her for a spanking.  But, we had some unanticipated family get-togethers that got in the way, though it still stayed on my mind.  Another big impediment was simply inertia. Once you get out of the habit of actually doing DD or communicating about it, it can be surprisingly hard (for me at least) to just suddenly raise it, particularly since in doing so I essentially would be outright asking for a spanking that I clearly need but still don’t want.

 

Then, this week there was another incident that indicated some slippage, and I finally did “man up” and approach Anne, in the form of a journal entry.  I called out the pattern I was seeing, but I went beyond suggesting a spanking to get back on course.  Instead, I owned up to the fact that the whole DD aspect of our relationship had drifted, and I told her I felt like to get it back on track we might need to go back to some of the structure we imposed very early on, including more formalized reporting.

 

Many years ago, when we were trying to move DD from a somewhat sporadic experiment to more of an ongoing relationship feature, I had instituted a form of weekly communication that now seems almost laughably cryptic and paranoia-induced.  One obviously simple form of reporting was to simply send her an email each week, reminding her to think about whether there was anything she wanted to address and self-reporting any bad behavior that I felt she probably should address.   

 

The problem was, Anne has a habit of not deleting emails, and I was so paranoid about others finding out (see above discussion about impediments to openness), that I used a very cryptic euphemism in the header for the topic of DD spanking and I seldom listed any actual behavior at issue.  As silly as it seems to me today, I was that concerned that someone might hack or email or just accidentally see something in an open inbox.  The result was that it seldom really prodded her to action, and I often neglected to send it, particularly when I really deserved a spanking but really wanted to avoid it.

 


 

Anyway, this week I decided to dust off that old process.  I told her in the journal that I want to start sending her those reminders weekly, but this time I will be required to expressly list out any behavioral issues and to state expressly and frankly whether, in my own opinion, I should be spanked. I also suggested that if I fail to send an email, that should result in a separate spanking for failing to report.

 

This system is about as simple as can be, and I do think that some of my previous failures to implement real reporting and check-ins were the result of trying to do too much.  I also recognize that I am laying a pretty embarrassing paper trail in the very unlikely event that someone were to get into her email. But, I’ve decided I can live with that.  In fact, I see it as a way of making myself feel more vulnerable and under her control, which was something else some of you (Danielle and ZM in particular) talked about last week.   

 

 

It also fits in with me trying to be more open in general with her about some of what is going on in my head and other body parts, including being honest about some other fantasies and kinks that I might never want to try in real life but do kind of want her to know about.

 

 

The new system has been in place for a whopping two days, but so far so good.  Yesterday morning I sent her the required email, and it stated expressly that yes, I should be spanked for the trend in bad conduct over the last couple of weeks. This morning, she had to leave for something that was going to keep us apart for the rest of today.  Shortly before she left and as she was packing up to go, she announced matter-of-factly that she was going to take care of my spanking before leaving.  She then proceeded to put me over her knee and give me a short but effective spanking with her bath brush.

 

I don’t have any formal topics related to all this, so feel free to discuss anything that resonates with you. And, again, Happy Halloween!

 


 

55 comments:

  1. My wife and I employed a 'report cards system years ago which I believe I sent a copy to you when you were contemplating a similar system.
    It started out with me completing the report card including giving myself a monthly grade which translated into a certain amount of swats with the paddle.
    I must say it became a lot more interesting for me when she took over completing the report and assigning my grade.
    I would take her to lunch each month when the kids were in school and she would bring the report card to the restaurant and read out the results.
    She kept it beside her on the table throughout our meal and I'm sure our server was able to glimpse at it on some occasions.
    The card required her to tally up my grades per 'subject's ( there were a lot of them back then!) , to arrive at the number of paddle swats I would get once we went home.
    I found this part exciting , as she did , perhaps due to the unknown , that she had the power to decide the extent of my paddling , or the public setting of her passing my sentence .
    Sometimes she would let me off easy with only a dozen swats , but it was usually around 25 -30 And a couple of times , the max , 50!
    At first the paddling were not so hard and more symbolic as she held back a bit , but as she got into it , the intensity increased and she really laid it on making sure I returned to work sporting a red and sore bottom.
    The problem was it was a bit too formal and sometimes not as intense as I was hoping for , but for a while it worked great before gradually fading away.
    These days my spankings are more spontaneous and initiated by her which I like , but there is something attractive about the formal reporting system and being called on the carpet by her.
    It would be nice if she initiated a reporting system instead of us having to do it.
    Sounds like yours is off to a good start !

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    1. "I found this part exciting , as she did , perhaps due to the unknown , that she had the power to decide the extent of my paddling , or the public setting of her passing my sentence." I agree that an empowered wife is very exciting!

      I've tried several variations on the "report card" system, and none of them ever stuck. Maybe at some point I'll try again, but for now it seems like the simpler the better.

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  2. We've tried several methods of communicating when spanking is in order. All of the so-called systems failed. Mrs. Lion decided that we needed to build a disciplinary "habit." She created a few rather trivial rules that I was sure to break. Breaking a rule, of course, earns a spanking. As time went on, I broke those rules less and less. I suggested she punish me for annoying her by interrupting or by being a know-it-all.

    So far, we have had limited luck with this. However, I am currently due for a spanking because I shouted for her to say "hello" to me when she came home from work. It turned out that the puppy got outside and she was trying to get the dog back. This was one of the first times she let me know that I'm to be punished for annoying her.

    That spanking was put off for a few days due to other things needing being done. She hasn't forgotten and has let me know I will feel her paddles soon. After a lot of experimentation, we decided that the intensity of a spanking is the same regardless of the offense. I get a ten-minute spanking for the first offense. If I've earned more, she adds five minutes for each additional offense.

    Like you, Dan, we have had periods when discipline faded into the background. We added "just because" spankings that I get if I haven't been cited for anything in a while. My wife hasn't decided how much time has to pass before I get a "just because" spanking. So far, it's been about a week.

    We both use posts in our blog to communicate about disciplinary issues. It's worked well to keep us on track. Visitor comments also keep us honest.

    In terms of community, I am willing to expose who I am to people who have similar feelings and who can realistically meet. I'm in the Pacific Northwest. Both my wife and I have appeared on two national podcasts. Our blog posts are also podcasts, though they aren't in our voices. Dan, I'm open to less anonymous communication. Are you?

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    1. I am, though I need to figure out the right format for it. And, I'm not at all sure that Anne is open to doing it herself, which may limit some opportunities.

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  3. There is a difference between a reporting system not working and it not working forever. There seems to be something about DD that resists rote repetition and either evolves a practice to something else or allows it to slowly fade away. We have started and ended many practices that either didn’t work, worked for a while and then stopped working, or in one or two cases worked so well, we no longer needed them. (Obviously the scope of practices I am alluding to is pretty wide and includes more than just reporting systems.) DD is dynamic by nature and invites experimentation. So things that work well one or two years in, might not work at all 10 years later. Whether something works or not also depends on the couple involved. I know for certain there are some things my wife has done that wouldn’t have worked at all with my former GF and vice versa
    Alan

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    1. Alan, regarding the observation about evolution or decay being inevitable: I wonder if that’s because, for many, desire, dissatisfaction or exploration is the primary motivation. Transitioning to being motivated by a good status quo from those isn’t easy and many wouldn’t even try to transition to it.

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    2. Alan, I agree that it's natural for things to transition and for successful things to fade once no longer needed. For me though, we've really never had a successful reporting program in place, other than a few months when we were just beginning DD. That program definitely did help get things started, but I do feel like lack of some solid program has really inhibited consistency, which is a problem, and probably kept her from developing more confidence and control.

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    3. Dan,
      I think I hear you. I do think reporting systems, even when the work are transitional for most couples. Maybe a hard scheduled maintenance program, say twice a month or weekly might jump start the momentum you are looking for. We have had some success with this and it does seem to build confidence as well as maintain momentum. For a long time I was not enthusiastic about maintenance because it does lack spontaneity and some authenticity. But it really does reinforce the roles especially if you are an alpha male and she does become habituated to picking up that brush or strap.
      Alan

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    4. MW said: " I wonder if that’s because, for many, desire, dissatisfaction or exploration is the primary motivation "

      Hi MW,
      I am not sure I understand your point. Maybe you would expand a little on it
      Alan

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    5. Alan,

      I agree reporting systems probably are transitional in most cases. One likely exception is when the couple has some issue they believe needs ongoing correction but isn't one she can personally observe. I could also see it being less transitional if it's being used for some fairly detailed performance plan, like the one ZM has referred to several times.

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    6. Alan, for example, take DD. Some people regularly enjoy sex, affection, and these other things in marriage. But they also want spanking from their spouse, and they also enjoy the wanting of and questing for the spanking. We could call this wanting to have a fantasy, but I think the desire to have potential in the relationship is more than that because it’s a desire to have a charged potential, or a possibility to change or perhaps to always be moving along a path to change without yet having arrived.

      When they start getting spanking, that need to be spanked is met, but the need to want something new is no longer being met by the desire for spanking, if that makes sense. So now a new desire will be found and that will start to exert itself on the relationship. That desire might be for the spanking relationship to escalate (the evolution, as you said) or it might be for something new to replace the spanking (the decay, as you said.)

      Hopefully I said that better. And of course I am not intending to say everyone does this, and it’s an idea in progress.

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    7. Hi MW,
      Psychologists have been describing this for a while relating it to a “needs hierarchy" in which basically the satisfaction of one set of needs can lead to the search for “higher” needs. Applied here for example, we could imagine the need for the physical experience of getting spanked morphing after a time into the need for meaning or emotional connections with the spanking or deeper communication with the disciplinarian as well or a set of rituals of some sort that spoke to deeper needs. This does happen I think - often manifesting itself as a need for growth or just change. It’s part of what I mean when asserting DD relationships are dynamic. A lot of the energy that propels it is the deepening of self-knowledge that comes with experience and the satisfaction of lesser needs.
      Alan

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    8. Hi MW and Alan,
      Very true that once greater needs are met, one tends to start to think of the lesser needs that were eclipsed before by the larger needs.

      And yes, the knowledge gained from experiencing things can definitely change things by bringing deeper understanding. This was very much the case for me with the whole others knowing or witnessing thing. I had seen pictures depicting it for many years, but it just didn't resonate with me because I wasn't getting the spankings I needed. Only after being in a DD relationship for several years did this idea of "others" really catch on in my mind, when we discussed it here. I then realized that somehow even though I was getting the very real spankings I had always wanted, somehow they still lacked some of the emotional impact that I think having others involved will in some way add. I guess I will find out about the impact at least on the knowing part, since two days ago, my wife just shared EVERYTHING with her one friend that she had told the most to before, and that friend knows that I am aware of her knowing too, so I guess we will see how that feels next time I actually see her.

      Not only did my experiences trigger this deeper understanding, but of course the second desire (for others knowing or seeing) is dependent on the first desire. As long as I wasn't getting spanked, having others know about it or witness it simply couldn't happen, since there had to be something to know about or witness.

      Anyway, I guess I am just saying that these things tend to be pretty dynamic as they are explored and experienced.

      -ZM

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    9. Wow! That's a momentous development. Things seem to be progressing quickly for you on the "others" front.

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  4. I send Mrs GL a whatsapp message, usually with a light-hearted pic but obvious what it relates to ans also usually indicating that I think she has left it too long between spankings (usually 3-4 weeks). If I didn't ask I wouldn't get. Cheers Good Life Mickey.

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    1. The "if I didn't ask I wouldn't get" dynamic probably is common,though also obviously frustrating to those for whom "imposed" discipline is a big part of the attraction.

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    2. Certainly the case for me Dan... and definitely frustrating. I would like discipline imposed but I haven't been able to arrange that. Once it came out of the blue (as I'd been annoying her) - incredible!

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  5. Dan,
    I've been absent from posting because we moved and were busy. We took advantage of the seller's market that existed in many parts of the country and bought a newer house. It has more wooded property and privacy, which we both like. It also came with a separate room which had been used as an art studio. We might use it for hobbies. I've already used the room as a place to discipline my husband. He gave me backtalk this past weekend. And, he was also overdue for a discipline session because of all the work involved with our move. So, punishment was a tougher than normal. Since we are in a new home, I decided to issue new rules for him and pass the rest of the chores to him. I also like the idea of reporting, and he will be reporting to me - in writing. He wasn't thrilled about it, but he has no choice. All this turns him on since he asked for this. I will let you know how reporting goes.
    Carol H.

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    1. Hi Carol. Welcome back. I hope the move went well and you're enjoying the new house. Sounds like your husband may not be enjoying your new hobby room. :-) I hope the reporting works out.

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  6. Hi Dan,
    As I have said here before, we don’t really do self-reporting for behavior (like where I tell her what I did wrong and she can punish or not). My wife has not really liked the thought of this, at least so far, and I personally prefer it this way. If she did ever say that she wanted it, then of course I would be fine with it. The part that neither my wife or I like is that it feels too much like asking for a spanking. I would never ask for a spanking for two reasons. First, because I find them something to be avoided whenever possible, even though I find the whole exercise of female authority exciting, and I even find the thought of spanking as erotic when looking back or at anytime other than when a spanking is imminent. And second, for me at least, discipline must first and foremost feel imposed for it to feel real and not just a kink (though admittedly my desire for it is rooted in kink).

    The concept of self-reporting is fine, and I am not sure why I don’t like the thought of it as much in DD. I am guessing that this might because of the whole consensual nature of DD, and how it was my idea to start with, so maybe that creates a different dynamic than it would be if I were a child? As a child, if you did something wrong, you came clean because it was the thing to do and it made you feel much better to not be keeping your wrongdoing secret. And you hoped that you wouldn’t be punished or if so, not too much. But if you are an adult and you are in a DD relationship that was your idea to begin with, then somehow maybe the fact that her spanking you was your idea makes it almost impossible to self-report without it feeling (at least to me) like you are asking for a spanking.

    However, as you know, we continue with our weekly check-ins, and a good share of the categories on it are self-reported. But somehow this still works for us, because it is her who says it is time to have the check-in, who tells me to get the form, and who asks me (almost interrogates me) on a category by category basis about the previous week. Somehow, that still maintains enough of an “imposed” discipline feeling, and is all centered around her authority. So I have no problem with self reporting if it is her who instigates it and is asking the questions.

    -ZM

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    1. "As a child, if you did something wrong, you came clean because it was the thing to do and it made you feel much better to not be keeping your wrongdoing secret." You obviously were a more responsible kid than I was. I don't think I *ever* self-reported back then.

      I get what you mean about self-reporting feeling like you are asking for a spanking, and when I initiated things on this front last week, it definitely did involve asking for a spanking. As you know, I do share your need/desire for spankings to feel imposed. Sometimes, though, my need for boundaries and accountability can outweigh the need for it to feel fully imposed. That was really where my mind was the last couple of weeks. I saw some behavior deteriorating and felt a need for the boundaries to tighten up, even though she wasn't really seeing things as a problem.

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    2. My memories of childhood are not always that clear, but I know I never got a spanking for something I confessed to of my own free will. A spanking was too scary of a thing not to try to hide from. I wish I could say I was heroically conscientious, but I just wasn't that brave. That's the important difference for me between discipline imposed by real authority, and when a husband asks his wife for DD, or with other kinds of consensual adult discipline relationships. The shame and embarrassment is much greater when there is no way I can be seen as seeking redemption or self-improvement. Growing up, there was a feeling of redemption, and motivated improvement, but I could take no credit for it.

      I think with FLR/DD I asked for, I would just have to accept it for what it is. It would not be my idea to implement a reporting system, but if it's my wife's idea, imposed by her, then I believe the parental nature of the discipline would not be destroyed. I get some credit for being honest in my reporting, but it can be seen as due to obedience rather than as a wish to be held accountable. The underlying truth is that I want to be held accountable, but we can keep that in its own box where it doesn't interfere with the feelings that make punishment so attractive to me.

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    3. Hi Dan,
      “You obviously were a more responsible kid than I was. I don't think I *ever* self-reported back then.” - Notice that I said “you came clean” (you being in the general sense of the word) not “I came clean,” since I was never one to self-report either! I don’t really remember many childhood spankings, but I do remember a few. But from my limited recollection, I usually only admitted to things after first denying them, and then only grudgingly after being presented with irrefutable evidence. I vaguely remember (but don’t know for sure), that at least a few times I was punished more for the denying or lying about what happened than for what I had actually done wrong.

      “Sometimes, though, my need for boundaries and accountability can outweigh the need for it to feel fully imposed.” - I totally get where you are coming from. For me, this isn’t really a problem right now since the weekly check-ins happen without fail now (well, not for the next couple of weeks since she is out of the country, but even them I am supposed to fill out the forms for when she comes home). Consequently, if there are any issues at all, they are addressed or at least called to my attention very early on, before I get a chance to spiral out of control.

      And Brett,
      “…I never got a spanking for something I confessed to of my own free will. A spanking was too scary of a thing not to try to hide from. I wish I could say I was heroically conscientious, but I just wasn't that brave.” - as I said to Dan above, I didn’t confess to much either, because I was afraid of being punished. Ironically, the first part of what you said “I never got a spanking for something I confessed to of my own free will” would have likely been true had I just had the courage to come clean. In most cases, had I just told my parents what I did and asked for forgiveness (without being prompted), probably I would have avoided most of the spankings I did get.

      “The shame and embarrassment is much greater when there is no way I can be seen as seeking redemption or self-improvement.” - True on the redemption and self-improvement aspect of DD, especially at the relationship level. It takes true character to seek accountability and it takes real courage to submit yourself to authority, especially if that authority extends to being able to prescribe painful physical punishment. So as long as we are thinking about the bigger picture, DD might well be the most adult thing I can do, since it is taking all about being accountable, taking responsibility for how my actions affect others, and trying to constantly improve, all things that nobody seems to do very well these days. So seeking a DD relationship should cause no shame.

      However, that doesn’t mean that there will be less shame or embarrassment at the time spankings actually occur, depending especially on what you are being punished for. Let’s face it, spanking is generally a punishment usually associated with children. When you are a child, and are spanked for acting childish, there is a lot less shame and embarrassment than when you are adult getting that same childish spanking (though perhaps harder), especially if it is for acting childish.

      “It would not be my idea to implement a reporting system, but if it's my wife's idea, imposed by her, then I believe the parental nature of the discipline would not be destroyed. I get some credit for being honest in my reporting, but it can be seen as due to obedience rather than as a wish to be held accountable.” - Very true, though I think it can even extend to wishing to be held accountable, which still feels much different than asking for a spanking. Either way, if it is your wife imposing the reporting, then reporting honestly is the only real choice,since honesty is the very bedrock of DD (and marriage for that matter).

      -ZM

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    4. ZM: "DD might well be the most adult thing I can do, since it is taking all about being accountable, taking responsibility for how my actions affect others, and trying to constantly improve, all things that nobody seems to do very well these days. So seeking a DD relationship should cause no shame."

      I see it that way as well, at least with regard to self-discipline. Seeking self-improvement, especially for any altruistic reasons, is a noble thing, and also a sign of maturity. Feelings of shame for me are about how I want to impose this discipline through spanking. It's primarily shame for the fetish rather than for whatever required the punishment. But then the fetish is for shame, so the ideal scenario is that it doesn't appear to be self-discipline at all, like it was not self-discipline growing up. That's why, in order for DD to work to satisfy my desires, beyond just accountability, I really need a wife who has a mind of her own about how to implement the discipline.

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  7. Now about our weekly check-ins, for those who might be newer here. A few years ago, we were completely stuck in life. I was trying to start a business, but due to the situation, plus my lack of self-discipline and feeling quite depressed, I really couldn’t get traction and everything was pretty dismal. I asked my wife to kind of have a “boot-camp” type of time to help me get on top of things. So we implemented a system where she was asking me daily about my day and giving me a score of a plus if I had a great day, a dot if it was just so-so, and a minus if I didn’t achieve what I needed to. And then we had weekly “check-ins,” where the whole week would be reviewed and she would punish me if necessary. And it worked! Our life is now on a quite different trajectory. As things began moving forward again and the need for it declined, and as we had less opportunities for the check-ins, it kind of just died out for a while.

    And then we re-started it most of a year ago, this time with weight loss and improved health being the primary focus - since if we don’t get a handle on this it jeopardizes everything in our life together - and with everything else that she cares about added to it as well. I can’t post the form here, but it has the following categories.

    Weight loss (15 points possible):
    less than .5kg loss = minus (0 pts)
    .5-.7kg loss - dot (10 pts)
    .8kg or more loss - plus (15 pts)
    Walking (15 points possible):
    <6000 steps average = minus (0 pts)
    6000-7000 steps = dot (10 pts)
    >7000 steps = plus (15 pts)
    Diet (15 points possible):
    > 1 cheat day = minus (0 pts)
    1 cheat day = dot (10 pts)
    1 cheat meal = plus (15 pts)
    And the other categories continue in the same way, including attitude (driving, not over-reacting, etc.), social & work/life balance (being open to opportunities), staying on top of household repairs, neatness, and so on. Plus, she has the option of docking me points for anything not on the list, which would affect my final score.

    It only takes us a few minutes to fill out each week, and she likes it because it makes it much easier to be fair. Many of the things are based on numbers or fixed criteria, so they just are what they are, and even the ones that are not are simple to evaluate; since every category only gets a plus, a dot, or a minus, it is an easy judgement call. And finally, we have a grading scale, so it indicates if punishment is called for, and if so, generally how severe.

    Anyway, it seems to be working well for us, and she is super on top of it, so we never miss a week without it being pre-planned.

    -ZM

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    1. I like your "plus, a dot, or a minus" grading system. While some behavior items can be pretty nuanced, it does seem like on most things in life you're either status quo, exceeding or failing.

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    2. "She is super on top of it." No wonder "it seems to be working well for us."
      The old cliché says it well: "When mama's [the disciplinarian} is happy, everyone is happy." - whatever the details.
      Doug

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    3. Hi Dan,
      I totally agree on the plus, dot, minus thing. Initially, I was trying to make it more like a 1-10 type thing, but my wife insisted, and it is actually a lot easier the way she came up with, since as you said, you either do just ok, exceed, or fail. I think of how hard it is for me to answer most any question on a scale of 1-10. It is already hard enough for my wife to have to "grade" things, without adding doubt about whether something deserves a 6 or a 7. In the end, it is a lot easier to say "great job" or "not bad, but work a bit harder on it," or simply "you're not getting it done."

      And Doug,
      Yes, it is because she is on top of it that it works so well for us. If it were up to me to make the check-ins happen, they never would, which pretty well explains the need for the check-ins in the first place!

      -ZM

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    4. ZM, interesting. If I understand right you can make up for one trouble area in a week by doing outstanding in two other areas. That would fit well with my more varying approach to life while still forcing movement in the right direction.

      If it doesn’t give too much away, can I ask what she inspects in the area of business? Do you have to take any steps to ensure that you can’t fudge it using your expertise? At one point we were trying to track some CRM activity but I was having to explain or qualify too much of it. The data wasn’t any better than just having me summarize the week as “pass” or “fail.” I’d still like to figure that out.

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    5. I find that when I try to give myself grades on anything on a 1 - 10 scale, everything seems to be a 7 or 8 . . .

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    6. Hi MW,
      Yes, up to a point I can make up for one "trouble area" in a week by doing great in everything else. But it is actually a little more complicated than that. I just didn't include a few of the specific details in my description since I didn't want to confuse anyone.

      Here is the way the scoring works, exactly.
      - If any category is a "dot" 1 week, then if it deserves a "dot" again, it instead turns into a "minus" for the second week. It means that I didn't take the mediocre performance seriously enough. So, if I get a dot in one category, I put extra effort into that category the coming week (which is exactly why we do this).

      - Every minus gets an automatic two cane stripes. This is additional to the points loss, which depending on the final score for the week, can trigger a larger punishment. This means that if I do really poorly in one category for a week, it is not totally without punishment, since the two cane stripes hurt quite a lot. However, if I only do badly in one or two categories, depending on which ones they are and how many points are lost, I usually will not get a big punishment.

      - Getting two minuses in consecutive weeks in any category trigger an automatic mini-punishment. In theory this would be in addition to whatever regular punishment the final point tally called for, but in practice if I were getting a punishment for points for the week, it probably wouldn't be any worse for having two consecutive minuses. However, if I had enough points to avoid a real punishment, and if I had two consecutive minuses, I would get at least something (more like a reminder spanking).

      And finally, the first items on the form are weight loss, walking, and diet. My health is by far the most critical thing we are trying to address right now. If I get minus on all 3 categories - which so far has never happened and hopefully never will - I get an immediate big punishment (like multiple rounds spread over much of an hour), and then the check-in will be the next day, mostly excluding these three categories, but basically if anything else is less than perfect, it would mean another spanking on my already presumably sore bottom. I obviously will be quite vigilant to keep this from happening. The reasoning is that maybe in some week I might miss my weight target, but if I did good on diet and exercise, then that is not too big of a deal. And in the same way, regardless of how I did on diet and exercise (the inputs), if weight loss actually went well (the output), again that is not a big deal. But if I am not losing weight and I am blowing my diet and not exercising, then that is a huge problem, because it means I simply am not trying. So that is where things get pretty bad pretty quickly so I get a real wake-up call.

      And Dan,
      I agree about the 7 or 8 on everything. Basically 1-10 doesn't really work that well on rating a lot of things.

      -ZM

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    7. ZM, I do wonder sometimes whether, when incentivizing something like weight loss, it is better to focus on inputs or outputs or both. Part of me thinks the emphasis should be on results, on the theory that if the results aren't there, maybe you aren't trying enough and you've set the inputs too low. But, I definitely have had long periods of time in which I felt like I really was trying hard, and yet just could not get the scale to budge.

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    8. All that detail is interesting to me. Sounds like you have worked your way to a mature system that resigns you to not trying to game it. And she is enthusiastic about testing you with it which is just awesome.

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    9. Hi MW,
      The system we came up with is actually really simple. It sounds a lot more complicated when I describe it here, but the form kind of takes care of a lot of it. It literally only takes us about 5 minutes per week for the form and scoring, including discussing each of the categories.

      And yes, it is designed to keep me from gaming it, because it is generally in my nature to game most systems, not by cheating but rather by finding loopholes. One interesting thing that has happened a few times is that I will say something like that I want to go for a walk, and she will say something to the effect of "you only want to go for a walk because you are trying to get enough steps in," almost like I am trying to cheat the system. Hitting my goal for steps is, or course, exactly why I want to go for a walk at that particular time, but it doesn't mean that I am trying to game the system, but rather the system is working because it is causing me to change my behavior!

      And in the end, everything we do is ultimately for my benefit, even arguably the rules or other things that she might add that I don't necessarily agree with, if they improve our relationship and help us to have a happy life.

      Consequently, there is little reason for me to game the system overall, because I really do want to achieve the goals we agree upon. But the whole reason we even need DD is because I generally procrastinate on everything, so instead of focusing on weight loss today, I will eat the cheesecake and do better tomorrow, and instead of walking or working out right now, I will do it later. And of course "later" and "tomorrow" never come. So, everything is designed to shorted the event horizon so that if I don't stay on top of it TODAY, then there will likely be consequences soon. As the now familiar saying goes: "Discipline is choosing between what you want now and what you want most." So, she helps push me to choose what I want most, knowing that if left to my own devices I will always choose the "now" and never reach my long term goals.

      -ZM

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    10. "One interesting thing that has happened a few times is that I will say something like that I want to go for a walk, and she will say something to the effect of "you only want to go for a walk because you are trying to get enough steps in," almost like I am trying to cheat the system. Hitting my goal for steps is, or course, exactly why I want to go for a walk at that particular time, but it doesn't mean that I am trying to game the system, but rather the system is working because it is causing me to change my behavior!" That's really funny!

      "Discipline is choosing between what you want now and what you want most." I haven't heard that one but really like it!

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    11. Yeah, that quote is simple yet profoundly powerful. It hits exactly at the core of most every problem I have. Quite simply, I far too often choose immediate gratification thinking I can make up for it in the long term, but then the long term ends up being the sum total of all those moments I chose immediate gratification. This desire for immediate gratification also drives procrastination - which is one of my major flaws - since I often don't feel like doing something right away, so end up putting off most everything that is not absolutely critical.

      -ZM

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  8. Hi all. Haven’t said much as Dev has some health issues and “ business “ hadn’t been take off much. Today was a little different. We’re supposed to go to Florida for a couple weeks. As there is so much to do I often become short and irritated. This results in us fighting. This afternoon as I was finalizing things I realized she hasn’t gotten all her meds yet. This upset me and I said some things. While I was out picking up her prescriptions she sent me a text stating she wanted to have a long “ discussion “ with me later. I arrived home and she waiting in the living room holding her favorite paddle. She called me over and said she wasn’t tolerating any more crap from me and pulled me over her knee. Pants down and paddling given. No warm up. Lasted about 10 minutes. Her point was made and she says she’s taking the paddle with us. I was out of shape and I was jumping and squirming all over. It hurt like hell and I’m glad it’s over.

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    1. How true about being "out of shape" for DD. It is amazing the difference in how much more it hurts when you haven't been spanked much in a while.

      -ZM

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    2. You and I may be much alike in our reaction to traveling with spouses. Any time we go anywhere together, I tend to get very . . . snippy.

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    3. “Any time we go anywhere together, I tend to get very . . . snippy.”

      If that includes the longer days in a car or traveling that was a problem for us that originally led to experimenting with preventive spanking. I suspect from comments others have made it might be a common problem – one that our resourceful wives seem skillful at resolving. My wife has been very proactive with that problem
      Alan.

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  9. Danielle here:

    I think every couple has to do what works best for them, but I have always found it annoying when my husband "tells on himself." In fact, for many years I had a strict rule that he wasn't allowed to tell me that he "deserved" a spanking. My feeling was that he deserved a spanking when I thought he did, for doing or failing to do something that annoyed me enough to discipline him. In retrospect, I don't know whether my rule was entirely fair to Wayne. Maybe he would have liked to have a reporting system like some of the ones you guys are discussing, but I feared that allowing him to tell on himself would lead to a system of spanking on demand to service his spanking kink.

    I have relaxed my attitude about this because my husband is dealing with a serious health issue which has made me softer. I know he is struggling with anxiety related to his health, and that doesn't inspire me to be a rigorous disciplinarian. Obviously, he has noticed that and has drawn my attention to it. As a result, I have relaxed my rule forbidding him from telling me when he thinks he "needs" a spanking, and I have recently given him a couple of spankings that aren't strictly disciplinary. They weren’t exactly erotic spankings either. Purely erotic spankings are kind of pointless for my husband because, like some of you guys here, my husband finds "erotic" spankings less erotic than "real" spankings, meaning spankings I impose as punishment. But we have discovered a third type of spanking lately: therapeutic spanking, and the purpose of it is to help him deal with health-related depression and anxiety. To that end, I have encouraged him to talk to me about his feelings, including the feeling that he needs a spanking.

    I suppose that therapeutic spankings are disciplinary in a way because they help him to impose some discipline on his own emotions. He has confessed that he feels ashamed when he gets fearful or anxious or depressed because that makes him feel unmanly and inadequate as a husband. And when he is like that, he loses his enthusiasm for the service aspects of FLR, like cooking and cleaning. Paradoxically, taking him over my knee and spanking him like a little boy seems to help alleviate those feelings he believes to be "unmanly", and it brings some of the joy back to other aspects of FLR.

    It is counter-intuitive, but when Wayne is feeling down for reasons that evoke sympathy, I sometimes need to remind myself that handling him with kid gloves may be less helpful than paddling his bottom. But it's emotionally tricky for me, so I need him to talk to me about his feelings.

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    1. Hi Danielle,
      FLR and DD are just full of paradoxes and seeming contradictions. I like the two that you highlighted. "Paradoxically, taking him over my knee and spanking him like a little boy seems to help alleviate those feelings he believes to be 'unmanly', and it brings some of the joy back to other aspects of FLR." - Amazing how being spanked like a child can bring help restore someone to feeling manly. I think I have experienced some of this feeling myself.

      "It is counter-intuitive, but when Wayne is feeling down for reasons that evoke sympathy, I sometimes need to remind myself that handling him with kid gloves may be less helpful than paddling his bottom." - I totally see where you are coming from on this. But that really puts you in a difficult spot, or at least it would be difficult for me. When someone is feeling down, it feels a lot more right to be gentle with them so you don't feel like you are kicking them when they are down, but what do you do when what they really need is to not be treated gently? Taking real DD spankings and other punishments is difficult, but I am pretty convinced that taking them is easier than actually administering them.

      -ZM

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    2. I have experienced the paradox of being spanked lifting feelings of depression as well as releasing me from the compulsion to childish behavior such as temper tantrums. I don’t know if I have felt more “manly” after being spanked but definitely freer to be myself and function as an adult. The paradox in all this seems palpable: a badly behaving adult male being spanked like a naughty boy and consequently being restored to a well behaving healthier adult. Part of the answer to the riddle is that guilt and or fear lie behand a lot of poor behavior –and being spanked relieves that guilt and reduces the fear. Maybe its endorphins released by spanking or just knowing someone cared enough to discipline you when you need it. I do know I admire Danielle and other disciplinarians including my wife who have the insight and sensitivity to understand this often highly nuanced set of emotions. If I were a disciplinarian I hope I could do as well but frankly I doubt it
      Alan

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    3. I agree with ZM - it has to be a very difficult needle to thread, want to be supportive when, as ZM says, the best support you can give is not to be gentle. I'm sure I would find that very difficult if I were in your position.

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    4. Danielle, I understand that this is a bit of a paradox, but I also feel this way. Regarding feelings and kid gloves, I suppose all I can say is that this is where objectivity is important: if you know it is the best course of action, stick with it, irrespective of feelings.

      ZM, how would you measure the "ease" (of giving or receiving a spanking)? Is it one of those old "this will hurt me more than it hurts you" situations? I suppose it depends on what you consider easy.

      Alan and Dan, I suppose the situation of men like us not having the insight and sensitivity to understand is why F/M DD relationships are often better than the other way around. I also have doubts I would manage something like this properly.

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    5. Hi Hugh,
      I have no scale for how I might measure ease of either giving or receiving spankings. It would be pretty meaningless anyway, since all relationships are different and all spankings within a relationship are different, not even taking into account the temperaments and moods of both parties.

      However, what I was referring to in Danielle's case specifically is that when you can see that someone is down, it doesn't feel very good to take any sort of negative action against them, even if you know that it might be for the best. One of the very best things about DD in general - and spanking specifically - is that it not only brings fast resolution to things and clears the slate, but also it seems to pretty effective at assuaging feelings of guilt. But in this case, where she can see that he is feeling down, I can see she might feel somewhat guilty for paddling him, especially if it turns out that he is more down afterwards than before. So by punishing him when she sees that he is down, she might well be setting herself up to feeling guilt, second guessing, and lingering doubt, which in my book is quite a bit harder than feeling temporary pain in my bottom, no matter just how intense that pain might be.

      -ZM

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    6. Again, I suppose this is where objectivity comes in again. People responsible for the administration of punishment need to maintain objectivity and punish people, even if they appear to be down. If a child appears more down than before after a punishment, a parent normally just tells them to stop sulking. Similarly, a wife spanking her husband needs to be careful to make sure distractions like these don't sidetrack her, if her husband has genuinely done something worthy of punishment: she must deliver to his buttocks whatever pain is necessary in light of the seriousness of whatever he has done or not done.

      This is an advantage of spankings having an erotic component (from the perspective of both spouses). If she views it as erotic to spank him, it is more likely she will be steadfast in doing so. This is also the case regarding clearing the slate and assuaging feelings of guilt: sex following a spanking is free of guilt and done with a clean slate.

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    7. If both partners know and understand that it's fundamentally a sexual need or desire, then I find spanking isn't so complicated. Though my wife doesn't have a craving for discipline, when she's feeling down or stressed, spanking is a kind of therapy. She responds well to me taking the lead, and the result is pleasure and intimacy. We've even played with the idea that she's being punished. When I imagine a healthy DD relationship, I can see the same conditions. Both partners know what they want, and they're getting it. Why all the second-guessing?

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    8. Each to their own and I wouldn't want to criticise how someone else does things in their marriage, but this is never something we entertained. I told my wife I would never spank her, even playfully, even if she asked for it. She was happy with this and so this part of things are unchanged. Her desire is fulfilled by spanking me and mine is fulfilled by being spanked by her.

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  10. Dan,
    "It also fits in with me trying to be more open in general with her about some of what is going on in my head, including being honest about some other fantasies and kinks that I might never want to try in real life but do kind of want her to know about."

    I'm not asking you to give out details about those secret fantasies, but I do encourage you or anyone who feels they have genuine interest in some kinks and a good relationship where they can be discussed to let a partner know. I never knew my husband really wanted a full FLR. I assumed he was joking when he mentioned it over the years. He didn't press it more because he was afraid I would see his desires as "too weird". We already had a relationship where he was disciplined, and I assumed that was a FLR. He wanted more and we finally talked it all out. He is very happy, though he got more than he bargained for! I had some of my own fantasies too. Today, I'm a lady of leisure and boss in my home.
    Carol H.

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    1. Hi Carol. I wondered whether anyone would pick up on those lines, and a couple of times I almost deleted them before posting. I absolutely agree with you that it's best to tell your spouse about fantasies, especially if they really *are* something you might want to explore. Because, as you say, you just never know whether your spouse might be good with, and if you never bring it up . . . For mine, it's a little more nuanced, because I find there are things that I may get very turned on by, but that doesn't mean I'd ever really want to do it. But, you just never know. I think if you're attracted to something, you're attracted to it. That may--or may not--have much connection to what you'd actually be open to exploring.

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    2. Hi Carol,
      "...I do encourage you or anyone who feels they have genuine interest in some kinks and a good relationship where they can be discussed to let a partner know." - Absolutely agree. And not only because it might open doors to exploring that fantasy (which can be great if you actually want to try it), but because fantasies that are shared - whether ever acted upon or not - strengthen the relationship, whereas things that are kept secret often can weaken the relationship. So whenever possible, it is ideal to just have everything out in the open with your partner.

      -ZM

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    3. Carol H., I agree that fantasies seeming too weird is often a deterrent against revealing them!

      Dan, understood on the part about not all fantasies being something you would like to enact. I think many people would say that about my undeclared fantasies!

      ZM, I agree that openness is very helpful here. It is a big relief when the fantasies have been revealed.

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  11. Dan and ZM,
    Opening up about desires in a relationship can work wonders. If a couple has the right type of relationship where such a level honesty will work, it can change things in a profound way. I often feel bad I dismissed my husband's FLR desires for so long.
    Carol H.

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