Monday, October 18, 2021

The Club - Meeting #386 - Others

“A man who can't bear to share his habits is a man who needs to quit them.” ― Stephen King, The Dark Tower

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.  I hope you had a good week.  

 

 

I’m still really loving this time of year.  The trees have mostly turned where we live, and morning walks with the dogs have taken on a whole new luster. Also, is it just me, or did people put up Halloween decorations much earlier this year?  It seems like the Halloween holiday used to be a pretty time-bound event, with decorations staying up for only a few days around October 31st.  This year, however, in our neighborhood a whole slew of people put outdoor decorations up on October 1st or thereabouts.  Personally, I love that it and hope people do the same next year. 

 

We have not, however, been invited to any live Halloween events this year – perhaps such gatherings are still victims of Covid restrictions?  We also don’t have many people in our social circle who are into the kind of social events that could make Halloween even more fun as an adult that it was as a kid.

 

 I’m sorry for not posting again last week.  I was busy with some other stuff over the weekend, though in the interests of full disclosure, I also just did not have much interest in posting anything DD-related.  It isn’t uncommon for me to lose all interest in DD and blogging, but it seems like the cycles used to last longer.  I would be intensely interested for many weeks but then might hit a month-long dry spell. This year, it seems like I’m interested for a week or two then completely lose interest for a week.  Part of the issue may be that I simply don’t need DD as much right now, in two related senses. About this time last year, I hit what may have been a big inflection point where dysfunctional behavior was concerned.  I was coming of a hugely stressful period at work, then started setting the stage for a major career transition, and thanks to Covid it was a rare day that someone didn’t schedule a virtual happy in order to foster a continuing sense of “team” while everyone was working from home.  I also was dealing with a painful, chronic health issue.  It all added up to frequent bad behavior that meant I needed DD in the sense of I richly deserved it.  And, since my particular DD interest is heavily driven by accountability and exceeding boundaries, my subjective, internal need for DD and the structure it imposes also was running high. Now, however, the converse is true.  My behavior is WAY better than it was this time last year, so she feels less need to initiate any kind of correction, and I’m not doing nearly as many bad things that would result in me wanting to be held accountable.  Unfortunately, that also sometimes translates into a declining interest not just in DD but in DD blogging.  Anyway, we’ll just have to see how that develops over time.

 

I hope that you all have been tracking some of the developments in ZM’s relationship, particularly that (a) his wife opened up more or less fully to a friend that he is spanked and that it is discipline, not kink; and (b) there is a real prospect of him being spanked in front of a witness at some point.  It has been feeding into him being, as he describes it, “almost obsessive about wanting someone to know about” his DD activities.

 

I definitely understand being obsessed about DD and/or certain DD topics.  When I first discovered the Disciplinary Wives Club, it became an instant obsession, as did telling my wife about it.  After we started experimenting with it, I was probably still feeling some of that obsession when I told one of our mutual friends about it. 

 

 

I don’t think I have quite ZM’s level of obsession with witnesses and others knowing, but I do feel some of it and certainly commiserate with him on how that kind of obsession can drive you. Thinking through some of the issues he’s raised recently, it occurred to me that for me, others knowing has a stronger emotional force than others witnessing.

 

For example, I get very turned on my art that depicts someone seeing or commenting on the after-effects of a hard spanking, but not so much by someone witnessing the spanking itself.

 

 

I also have a thing for a spanking being heard, though not necessarily seen, and even more so to art or pictures that depict or suggest the recipient telling someone that they got spanked, perhaps as an additional part of the punishment.

 

    

I'm not sure why I have more of a reaction to scenes where some third-party knows about a spanking but doesn't necessarily witness it.  Maybe it’s as simple as, sometimes less is more where erotic visual stimuli are concerned.  I’ve always gotten more turned on by pictures of partially or almost nude women than I do at more open displays of full nudity.

 

I also suspect that this may be one of the few areas in which my current interest in DD and spanking may be related to things from childhood.  Corporal punishment was very open in the culture when I was growing up, yet I only really recall witnessing a single spanking.  Given how prevalent it was, I probably did witness a few others, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if others witnessed me being spanked, but I don’t have any memory of it. 

 


What I do remember is knowing that friends or cousins were being spanked or were about to be or just had been.  I don’t really recall hearing those spankings, but I remember being very aware of them.  Hell, for the longest time I thought that the whole purpose of a “cry room” in church was to give the parents a place to take unruly kids for a quick, efficient spanking. So, I think that for me it was the contemporaneous awareness of spanking discipline that was both a deterrent to bad behavior and a source of morbid curiosity.

 

While thinking about ZM’s current situation, a somewhat new angle on the whole topic of others knowing did occur to me.  While for me it doesn't really rise to the level of an obsession, I do get the perverse, almost morbid curiosity that underlies our interest in witnesses and others knowing. Plainly, many are interested in thinking or fantasizing about it.  Yet, very few ever act on the desire to bring their status as disciplined husbands (or disciplinary wives) more out into the open.  Why is that, do you think?

 

Assuming that you are, like most of us, more or less closeted where your DD relationship is concerned, what is it that holds you back from letting others know? Is there a specific social or professional stigma that leads you to keep it secret from most others?  Are there particular people or groups of people that you are most concerned about finding out?  Why? What do you think would happen if those people were to find out?  Would there be big ramifications, or do we over-estimate how much anyone would really care?



For me, my biggest concern about others knowing was seemingly very practical.  I was in a very conservative, traditional, and competitive profession.  I believed then, and I believe now, that there would have been professional blowback if my status as a disciplined husband were widely known in the office or to others I had to interact with professionally and often in competitive situations.  Also, for a long time I had in the back of my mind that I might run for public office sometime or go for a job that might require a security clearance, and I was pretty sure how something like being outed as a spanking blogger might impact those kinds of opportunities.

 

The thought of family members knowing also makes me squirm and, again, I’m not sure why.  I recall seeing one of my sisters get spanked, yet I would never want her to know I am spanked as an adult (though, in fairness, we don’t have much of an ongoing relationship).   

 

Somewhat similarly, my mother obviously knows I have been spanked, because when I was a kid she did the spanking.  Yet, I would be very embarrassed if she found out I am now spanked as an adult, even if she probably has a lot of insight into how my temperament and behavior might lead my wife to relish taking on that role.   

Finally, I am probably most resistant to male friends knowing, though that one I at least understand a bit. With them, it’s not just a fear of being rejected or scorned but, rather, we don’t really talk about anything related to our sex lives or anything very intimate about our marriages, so it would seem odd to have spanking be the one such thing that was out on the table.

 

 

Will Anne ever tell others? Honestly, I don’t know.  She doesn’t seem to have any friends who would be likely confidantes on that kind of thing, and so far she has never expressed any particular interest in letting others know.  If anything, she is more resistant to the idea than I am.  But, if there is one thing I’ve learned about these relationships it is, as ZM is learning now, never say never.

 

I hope you all have a great week.

49 comments:

  1. Interesting topic. Growing up in the era where spanking was the normal and accepted method of disciplining children, I like my friends were spanked, everyone knew and some witnessed. Fast forward to the adult spanking world and my living in a 24/7 FLR and DD household where I am spanked for discipline and maintenance. All of my lifestyle friends obviously know and many have witnessed and some have spanked me as well. A few vanilla friends know and have accepted it. One family member knows and keeps it between us. As far as anyone else, I have stated it like this before on these pages. We do not broadcast our DD lifestyle, but if someone 'discovers' it, we explain the lifestyle and the benefits of adult spanking for us and leave it at that. As things stand right now, some friends know, some have witnessed and some have participated. I am an adult, spanked, male submissive and not ashamed of my lifestyle.

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  2. "Why is that, do you think?" I suppose it is like everything else that happens within the intimacy of a marriage. We assume married couples do various things within the intimacy of their marriage, but there is no onus on them to share it in a way that identifies who we are.

    What holds us back from letting others know? Again, the need to know thing. Yes, people seek advice from say a sex therapist if and when they decide it will be useful. Similarly, if a man has kept himself for marriage and wanted some briefing on the generalities of what to expect when he consummated, I would give him information in generalities. If he wanted to discuss having an F/M DD marriage, then yes, I would tell him generalities about what the sum total of personal experience and discussions with others suggests to be effective ways of conducting an F/M DD marriage.

    In today's society, I doubt many people would care about such things, but even if everyone were doing it, I would still regard it as one of those things we know happens, but which doesn't need to be discussed elsewhere in a way that identifies the people involved. I suppose I would be ashamed of sharing a private marital thing in a way that identifies us, but I would not be ashamed per se of people knowing.

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  3. Hi Hugh,
    I think that being male, the more you view DD as sexual, the less likely that you would be to share it. But that could just be me; as I said in the last active topic posted here several weeks ago, I simply find it very difficult to talk about sex, sometimes even with my wife, and we are very active. I don't talk to other men about sex at all, much less women other than my wife, so that pretty much means I just plain don't talk about sex except here in the anonymous online world.

    The interesting thing about this is that my wife found it easy to tell people about spanking in the context of role-play, but until recently was more hesitant to tell anyone about spanking me for real offenses. I think it is almost the consensus here that it is easier to talk about DD as long as it is just treated as kinky play (except for me, of course, because I don't talk about sex and certainly not about kink!) So at least for women in our modern world, sex is more talked about than ever before, and while sex is still private, it is not completely off-limits to talk about. I don't think my wife tells her friends many specifics, but I know they talk about sex at least at times, and she knows who is happy with their sex life, etc.

    But when I think of it being harder to tell someone about DD being real punishments for real offenses (compared to if it were sexual), that makes little sense either, since if you are treating it as less sexual and kinky, it should be easier to talk about. And I don't think that is only because it is private between the husband and wife. After all, I doubt that there is a woman in this world who doesn't know which of her friends are mad at their husbands and most of the time the reasons. Disagreements between husbands and wives should be at least as private as anything that they actually mutually agree on. In the end, it is up to each person (or couple) to decide what they wish to share with others. I think the old standards of privacy in every sphere of life are all turned on their heads, and what was once considered private is now openly aired, even as people seem to think they should have much more privacy (like text messages, emails, etc.) than was ever afforded before the dawn of the digital age and personal communications.

    I think the bigger reason sharing real DD is more difficult (more so than the intimacy involved) is really that DD upsets the power structure that society still defaults to as "normal." So that is why it is harder to talk about the real thing than it is to talk about kinky play (for those who are more open to talking than me).

    When I read your response, I understand where you are coming from, but I view it as more the reasons that you wouldn't want to tell anyone. But assuming you DID want to tell people (which was the angle Dan was coming from), what would keep you from actually doing it?

    -ZM

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  4. ZM, I have to admit, I don't actually know, as you are asking for a hypothetical scenario when I do want to tell people and it is completely normal. In such a hypothetical situation, I suppose a few different things would affect my predisposition to talk about it:
    1) The appropriateness of the situation at the time. Maybe I would be most likely to discuss it with my closest male friends?
    2) How helpful it might be for someone in particular to know?
    3) What I expected to gain from discussing it
    And much more.

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  5. Hi Dan,
    I too am loving fall. It used to be my least favorite season, but in more recent years I have come to love the fall colors and the warm days and cool evenings, though I still hate the shorter days!

    The not needing many spankings totally makes sense. One of the largest impediments to our DD is the fact that I just don’t have many behavior problems, so while our check-ins occur weekly and they often result in minor punishments, we just don’t end up with that many big punishments where there is any sort of misbehavior or emotion involved. This at times makes me feel like an imposter, since I post here all the time and it may seem like I receive big punishments much more often than I actually do.

    As far as obsession goes, for me that part is mostly driven by curiosity. As soon as we actually do something the obsession largely goes away, and while I may still think about that thing, it just isn’t so all-consuming once I have experienced it in at least some form. “Fantasizing about” is replaced by “knowing about,” and that is a huge difference. Once it is concrete, there can still be fantasy, but the fantasy will always be informed by the previous experiences.

    “...it occurred to me that for me, others knowing has a stronger emotional force than others witnessing.” - I will write about others knowing and witnessing seperately, since I have a lot of thoughts.

    Your practical reasons for not telling others make a lot of sense, especially if you happen to be in a field known for cutthroat competition and people looking for and using every possible advantage. And of course if you have any political aspirations, everyone seems to love digging up dirt anymore (which I absolutely hate).

    Also what you said about family members knowing is very understandable. As Alan said a few weeks ago, your family has known you since you were a child, which changes everything. Also, there is at least to some degree always at least some amount of sexuality inherent in DD, so that makes any family member knowing very uncomfortable, since we are hardwired to not see those in our family or that we grew up in the same house with as sexual in any way.

    As for males knowing, I agree with exactly what you said. It is not “JUST the fear of being rejected or scorned” (emphasis mine, because the fear is real), but also that I don’t talk with guys about sex or really about much of anything in my marriage. And as you said, if you were going to talk to other guys about details from your marriage, your wife spanking you probably would not be the first thing you would pick to share.

    And with regard to Anne and her seeming to have no real interest in telling others, all I can say is that can change. As the topic of witnesses came up last year, my wife initially said that nobody would ever know and certainly never witness. Then she told several friends at least in a role-play context, and she seemed to feel empowered by that. And now she has told two friends, one just that I was being “punished” (for real reasons, but not explicitly referencing spanking), and another that she gives me real spankings for real reasons. And a few days ago, I apparently had too much attitude while we were walking with my closest female friend - the one who knows about our accountability and check ins - and that night my wife told me that she almost said in front of my friend that I would be getting it later that night for my smart remarks. As far as witnessing, she has said (about the one that she told the most to) that “now it would be easy to tell her everything and to even invite her to watch.” Later, she back-peddled a bit on the watching part and said that if it happens, she doesn’t see it being anytime soon. But then after that, she was talking about how she could actually invite the friend in a way that wouldn’t put the friend too much on the spot, so even there, I can say that my wife is thinking about this, so I wouldn’t be too surprised if she eventually makes it happen. Things do change…

    -ZM

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    1. ZM, no need to think you are an impostor. If DD is having positive behavioural effects, that is a good thing.

      I know what you mean about excitement about the unknown. It is exciting until it actually happens and then we think, yeah, whatever.

      Agreed on political aspirations. Cancel culture is alive and kicking. People will aways look for something sordid in someone's past. It is one of the biggest scourges of the current age.

      Agreed on the part about not talking about sexual things with family members. I suppose this is part of why I was never inclined.

      I have a feeling that F/M DD is more common than we think. Various little things I have come across cause me to think this. However, I haven't been brave enough to ask other men, to avoid irritating them.

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    2. Hi Hugh,
      I too wonder just how many people are into some form of F/M DD. Unfortunately, there is just no easy way to find out. My feeling is that F/M spanking play is probably very common, considering the references in movies and so on, but presumably DD much less so. But again there is no good way to know.

      One question I have surrounding this is whether F/M DD is more or less common than it was in the past? On the one hand, in general wives are much more empowered than they were before, so at least feel less need to be submissive to their husband. On the other hand, many years ago (like maybe 100 years ago) the social roles were different. Women were in charge of the household, and generally also disciplined kids as necessary whereas husbands typically took care of everything outside the house. I don't really think it is that much of a stretch to imagine at least some of those strong, practical women who were already disciplining their kids to just take things in hand now and then and discipline their husband too if he got too far out of line. I think kink was pretty much unknown during that time, so at least they wouldn't have had any conflict over whether it was inherently sexual or not...

      -ZM

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    3. The one and only data point I have that it may not have been totally uncommon in the past is a song I have posted about here before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w51LsY9zN-Y. It's from 1967, which was obviously a time with a lot of experimenting going on, yet it still surprises me that the song apparently was fairly popular and that it is a country song.

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    4. "A husband I will get
      Who shall be both my debtor and my thrall
      And have his tribulations therewithal
      Upon his flesh, the while I am his wife.
      I have the power during all my life
      Over his own good body, and not he."

      From Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, approximately 1390.
      There is nothing new under the sun.
      CrimsonKing

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    5. Love it! Is that the Wife of Bath? I do need to go back and read that book sometime.

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    6. It is The Wife of Bath. Can't say I've read it all (just the good parts!).
      Also, "There is nothing new under the sun" is a good Thomas Dolby song - that's now stuck in my head.
      CrimsonKing

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    7. While we are diving into the past we can go back much further than 1300 (CE)The ancient Greeks and Romans could also teach us a few things. See Ovid if you are at all interested. The only thing new under the sun is us.
      Alan

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    8. ZM, I understand it is not as recent as many would believe: I am aware of the following engraved plate from 1480 or so: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/468640

      I think in many cultures where we think the women are oppressed, they have advantages that modern Western women don't have and carried influence behind the scenes, regardless of their legal situation.

      Certainly, as you imply, in days gone by, many men would consciously seek a women with strong arms, given that she would be needed to do lots of physical labour at the home or on the farm. I agree that it is not a stretch to imagine them disciplining their husbands if they got out of line!

      Whether it was sexual, I have no idea. People in those days were generally less willing to discuss that side of things in public, so hard to compare.

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  6. It seems to me that this isn't simply a matter of letting people know you are spanked. This includes witnessing a punishment. The larger question is the matter of sharing exactly why the spanking takes place.

    I'm convinced that any desire to have others involved at any level is sexual. The sense of humiliation is probably the sexiest part of being a spanked husband. If, on the other hand, the spanking is purely disciplinary, the involvement of others is beside the point.

    I find it arousing to consider my wife sharing her disciplinary role with a friend. But I don't really want it. It shifts the DD in a sexual direction. Yes, it's hot to consider. Yes, I admit the idea of being spanked is arousing. I like the idea of another person knowing. I also realize that giving in to this wouldn't improve the value of my punishment. It would just become more sexual.

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  7. Hi Caged,
    "The sense of humiliation is probably the sexiest part of being a spanked husband. If, on the other hand, the spanking is purely disciplinary, the involvement of others is beside the point." - I agree that there is undeniably a sexual element to DD and that humiliation is probably the sexiest part of being a spanked husband. However, I do not see the sexuality inherent in DD as being not just a necessary evil that should be minimized whenever possible. Instead, for me it is the very thing that makes DD work so amazingly well for those who have the underlying kink and are willing to put it to good use to genuinely make their relationship and lives better. And in the same way, I view the humiliation of spanking and other as possibly being an even more effective tool than the actual spanking, so if there is a way to increase the humiliation, I am all for it. In that way, the spanking can have maximum emotional impact with less physical damage to my bottom. Very long, hard spankings seem to be pointless after a while anyway, since after numbness sets in, it hardly hurts anyway, so why keep going other than perhaps to increase longer-term soreness?

    Anyway, I understand where you are coming from and I respect your position. It sure is interesting how differently we are all wired!

    -ZM

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  8. I wanted to take this opportunity to re-post a question I posted a few days ago in the "no topic for this week" topic, since I really do want to hear peoples' thoughts on it and now nobody is looking at that thread anymore.

    As you are all probably painfully aware, for the past year or so I have been almost obsessive about wanting someone to know about our DD, and hopefully at some point I want to experience one (or more) witnessed spankings. As my wife and I have talked about this quite a bit in recent weeks, I am trying to understand just what it is that makes this all so compelling to me.

    I thought that maybe since some of you have some pretty great insights about the psychology of spanking (and really quite an array of other things), I would float this out there to see what thoughts everyone has. So please feel free to psychoanalyze me, though I prefer no value judgement about whether telling others or having others witness is good or bad, since I think everyone has weighed in on that before.

    A few things I am sure of…
    1)I have no interest in doing anything sexual that involves other people in any way, neither them participating, them witnessing us, nor me/us watching them.
    2) I hate the very thought of anybody seeing my out of shape body in any context, even like when I am at the beach, and certainly not in any spanking or sexual context where I would be the one being focused on.
    For these reasons, and because of my generally preferring to avoid attention wherever possible, I don’t think it is just some general exhibitionist trait that I have or something like that.

    I do have a few theories, though none seem to quite explain this drive completely.
    - The first is that maybe somehow it is not only a bruised bottom that I somehow crave, but also a somewhat bruised ego; maybe it is the feelings of embarrassment that surrounded childhood spankings (especially ones at school that others got and I didn’t) that are at the heart of my fantasy, rather than the physical feelings of the spankings themselves?
    - The second theory is that maybe I am wanting that validation that both Alan and Danielle have talked about. If my wife can exert her authority to spank me in front of someone else, it is obviously pretty real and there is no denying that I am a spanked husband.
    - The third theory is that maybe it is that this desire is so much a part of my psyche that I want to at least have a few people know about it. Could it be that I just hating having to hide from everyone something that is such a part of my identity?
    Or of course maybe it is some combination of these things or maybe something entirely different?

    I am looking forward to hear your thoughts!

    -ZM

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    1. Hi ZM. I'm often reluctant to go poking around in someone else's psyche, which always seems to involve projecting my own motivations onto them or seeing their issues through my own distorted lens. So, while I can't really know what it is that motivates your current very strong feelings around witnesses, I would say that my own (admittedly weaker) interest in both witnesses and in others knowing is probably close to your first option, i.e. that somehow it is not only a bruised bottom that I somehow crave, but also a somewhat bruised ego." I've never thought I am into "humiliation," at least in the stronger connotations of that word, but I do think that just as spanking is a form of consequence that feeds my need for accountability, so could be the humbling associated with others knowing.

      At first, I had a somewhat negative reaction to the idea that my attraction to others knowing might be about "validation," but the more I think about the more I can see how that might be a part of it, too. I think that many men who are into DD seem to have a need for "authenticity." They want "real" spankings for "real" offenses. The more it seems like role play or kinky games, the less attracted they are to it. I can see how, for men who are wired like that, there could be a certain confirmation (that word resonates more for me than "validation," for some reason, though I won't get hung up on semantics) of the reality involved when others are told about it.

      I also think we humans are kind of wired for "over sharing" on lots of fronts. Ben Franklin said "Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead," and there is a lot of truth in that. We do seem kind of pre-programmed to air our dirty laundry, confess our sins, etc.

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    2. If we take the sexual aspect completely out of the conversation, having witnesses or others who know that you are spanked creates a sort of club; people who not only share your experience, but who implicitly validate it.

      I think that one of the appeals of the DWC was the opportunity share and validate disciplinary experiences. I spent many years as an active member of an in-person BDSM organization. It felt good to be among "my" people. We are social animals. DD is an isolating experience. Sex isn't because even though we don't share it with others, we all know everyone does "it."

      That's far from the reality for those of us who practice DD. It would be nice to have a community, no matter how small, to validate our practices. In my capacity as a member of BDSM organizations, I've spanked and have been spanked in front of others many times. I never thought about the people watching while I was in the scene. It felt good that my kink was validated by others (lots of others!).

      I would suggest that a need for validation may be as significant as the sexual excitement of the humiliation. One thing to consider: It may be humiliating for others to know you are spanked. Your wife will get the same humiliation for her role. Spanking wives are even rarer than spanked husbands.

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    3. ZM wrote: “The first is … The second theory is that … The third theory is that maybe …”

      I have already posted on this, so I will just let that stand. But what you are referring to here as theory two and theory three fold into each other for me: the validation of “this is real” plus sharing it are symbiotically linked.

      You mention embarrassment also as a possible motive. I can’t speak for anyone else but the embarrassment I experience from discipline (including it being witnessed) is just a means to the loss of false ego and letting go to her authority which is the switch at the end of the line. Maybe embarrassment is what some do seek in a DD relationship but until someone convinces me otherwise, I continue to think it’s what embarrassment brings (letting go and loss of false ego) that we seek.
      Alan

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    4. CL, sorry for the delayed posting on your comment. I just found it lurking in the spam folder. F&%$-ing Blogger strikes again.

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    5. Danielle here:

      ZM, I've been thinking about a response to this question you asked last week. I didn’t get around to answering it because I didn’t feel as though I had a good answer. Why are you obsessed with the idea of being spanked in front of a witness? Why does my husband have the same obsession, and why did I start to feel a desire to act on it? I don't know, but I think Chris H's reply last week might be right, that it is a desire for integrity, a need to be recognized and valued for who we are. That applies to both parties in a DD relationship, I think.

      I must say, ZM, I find the insecurity you expressed about "anybody seeing [your] out of shape body" rather endearing. I think most women can identify with that kind of insecurity concerning body image, especially as we get older. We often assume that men are less sensitive about body image, but I think my husband felt a similar vulnerability in the lead-up to being spanked in front of Barb. Maybe vulnerability is part of the attraction to DD for you. My husband used to keep a journal in which he would record his thoughts and feelings about FLR, and vulnerability seemed to be a major theme. Is that an emotion you associate with your fantasy? Is it an erotic emotion for you?

      Thinking about Chris H's comment about "wanting to be known and loved for who we are", maybe your apparent feeling of shame about your "out of shape body" is a part of that. I don't know whether your wife will ever decide to act on your fantasy. If she does, the witness will need to be someone you and she both trust to be empathetic and nonjudgmental. I trusted Barb that way because I know from intimate conversations we had that she has body image issues herself. What woman in her sixties doesn't? I don't know whether any of this is helpful to you, but those are some thoughts that occur to me.

      One further thought. If the idea of being seen by a witness makes you too uncomfortable, maybe the spanking could be done off-stage, so to speak. Maybe it would be enough for your wife just to tell someone she trusts that she disciplines you. Or maybe she could make you tell that person. Or maybe she could spank you with a witness in an adjacent room, so the spanking is heard but not seen.

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    6. Sorry, Danielle. Again, F&^%-ing Blogger. One of your comments posted without intervention, and the other was hung up in my spam filter.

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    7. Dan,
      “.…just as spanking is a form of consequence that feeds my need for accountability, so could be the humbling associated with others knowing.” - Well stated. The humbling of others knowing is also a consequence, and that makes the accountability even more real.

      Regarding “validation,” I agree that the word doesn’t seem too desirable, since we often use it in a negative way when saying people are seeking it. Either way, whether it is confirmation or validation, I think that this is behind at least part of my desire for others having knowledge. And what you say about authenticity rings true for me. The more real DD is, the more attractive it is.


      Caged,
      “I would suggest that a need for validation may be as significant as the sexual excitement of the humiliation.” - I completely agree. I don’t want to say that there is no sexual excitement in the thought of humiliation, because I am sure that is not true, though I don’t know why. At the same time, there is some deeper need that is also tied in, and I think validation is at least part of that need. As you said “we are social animals.” One of the challenges with liking anything that is in any way different is that you feel you must hide it, and I think that is what causes the feeling of being alone or isolated. Having at least some people know about it somehow makes it seem a bit more acceptable. I mean, if it was THAT bad, I wouldn’t have told anyone, right? And also as you said, it would be great to have some sort of community to validate our practices. We do have that here, but the anonymous, virtual nature of it does take away somewhat compared to live human interaction.

      If there is ever a witness it must be someone who knows my wife well, respects her, and understands fully why we do what we do (and of course that it is consensual). I want it to be very empowering for my wife, maybe even a bit of a power rush, and for her to be seen as an amazing wife who goes out of her way to meet all of her partner’s needs and wants.


      Alan,
      I hadn’t thought about the second and third theory being more or less the same, or at least closely linked, but as I think about it, they certainly are.

      As far as embarrassment goes, I probably didn’t state it so well, but you are right that it is more what embarrassment brings that is compelling, and the embarrassment is more just a means to that end.


      Danielle,
      I agree on the integrity part. I hate having to hide something that is so much a part of me. And I had not thought much about the insecurity of body image that many women feel, since as you said, men are less sensitive about body image. In this case, I feel much more insecure because not only would I be in the spotlight, but the whole thing is about something bad being done to my body (and ego of course).

      “Maybe vulnerability is part of the attraction to DD for you….Is that an emotion you associate with your fantasy? Is it an erotic emotion for you?” - Absolutely correct, though I never thought about it in terms of being “vulnerable.” But in fact, one of the largest drivers of my fantasy is completely losing control and having someone else deciding what will happen to me, with me having no say at all. If that isn’t vulnerability, I am not sure what is. :-) I don’t think that my shame about my out of shape body plays into this, but maybe it is. I only know that my thoughts about spanking and other punishments goes back many, many years, even when I was in great shape. I just didn’t “discover” the whole “others” thing until last year, when suddenly it hit my radar screen and stayed there.

      “...the witness will need to be someone you and she both trust to be empathetic and nonjudgmental” - Agreed! And I would add to this list “very good at keeping secrets.”

      Finally, I agree that if the witness thing never happens, there are other ways to get at least much of the way there. The things you suggested can either be stepping stones to finally having a witness, or maybe they will be enough and this need will be adequately met.

      -ZM

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    8. "But in fact, one of the largest drivers of my fantasy is completely losing control and having someone else deciding what will happen to me, with me having no say at all." This soooooooooo resonates with me.

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  9. -part 1 -

    Dan said: “...for me, others knowing has a stronger emotional force than others witnessing.”

    I don’t have enough experience to compare. As I wrote before, there are several people who know about my wife spanking me, her holding me accountable, or her “punishing” me, but only one knows about DD (that she gives me real spankings), and I have not experienced having a witness.

    With regards to knowing about spanking, there are fundamentally two types of knowledge. The first is relationship knowledge, knowing that you are subject to spankings. For a child, this might be knowing that their parents spank or that they go to a school that uses CP. Or for adult DD as we are talking about here, it is knowing about your DD relationship where your wife gives you real punishments for real reasons. The second type of knowing is situational knowledge, knowing about a particular spanking incident, either past, present, or future.

    One underlying assumption is that in every case for either case of people knowing, either about our relationship or about specific spankings, I know who knows what. My wife could have literally told everyone she knows until now, and if she didn’t tell me that she told them, as long as nobody said anything to me about it or acted differently towards me, it would have absolutely no emotional impact on me.

    Relationship Knowledge:
    I realized as I was reading what Dan said about childhood spanking memories that the knowledge that we or our friends were subject to spankings was no big deal. Pretty much everyone back then was spanked occasionally, and you had no say in whether your parents, school, or others chose to use corporal punishment, so it was all non-consensual.

    Relationship knowledge of adult DD is different. Someone knowing you are subject to discipline is embarrassing for several reasons including: adults are expected to be self-disciplined, men have traditionally been the leaders of the family, spanking is for children (and for sex, so there is a certain assumed kinky element to DD), etc.

    So far, others only have varying amounts of relationship knowledge for my wife and me. And the only one who knows I am spanked for punishment, I have not seen since my wife told her. Will it be embarrassing when I see her? Time will tell. Right now, if I saw her, it would be only mildly embarrassing, since I doubt she is aware that I know about my wife telling her. So, I would probably just be more sensitive to how she looks at me, and especially any suspicious smiling or laughing, like if I were with them somewhere and they were laughing as I came back to the table. More embarrassing would be if the friend or my wife made any hinting references to it, like joking to be careful but leaving spanking unstated. And most embarrassing thing that could happen regarding relationship knowledge would be if my wife and friend talked openly about DD in front me, like I wasn’t even there, or included me in the conversation with questions, etc.

    - continued-

    -ZM

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    1. "Dan said: “...for me, others knowing has a stronger emotional force than others witnessing.”

      I don’t have enough experience to compare."

      Just to be clear, I don't have much experience to compare either, and meant that the thought of others knowing carries more emotional force for me than the thought of witnesses.

      Though, paradoxically, I do have *some* experience with others knowing, and it wasn't that emotion-laden. As I've related here a few times, shortly after we began experimenting with DD, I told a mutual female friend about it. This was someone who I knew from work and was very close to, while she and Anne were friends but less close day-to-day. After I told her, there actually was an incident that should have been terribly embarrassing. Anne and this friend went to a game together (Anne is a bigger sports fan than I am) and had several drinks while there. On the ride home, Anne called me, put the phone on speaker mode and proceeded to tell me that she and my friend had talked all about me getting spanked and that I had one coming.

      That incident checks a few of your boxes below but, while it was certainly embarrassing, it wasn't nearly as much so as I would have expected. Why? I think a few factors were in play. First, I had already told this person about it, and I got a lot of the embarrassment over in that first conversation. Second, this friend is so close and so non-judgmental on all things sexual, there wasn't any real doubt in my mind that she completely accepted me with or without something like DD involved. Third, I got the impression during our initial conversation that my friend was very surprised by my confession about DD and didn't quite understand it, but it also wasn't something that she personally got into. So, between her acceptance and lack of personal interest, it felt kind of like someone knowing I have a particular hobby--like fishing or something. You can tell such a person about your latest fishing trip, and they may be politely interested at best. Finally, there was the fact that the two of them had been drinking, and the whole conversation had that social distance you can feel when a group is drinking and you are not, and on top of that it was not a face-to-face conversation on my end. So, I guess what I am saying is that while that particular incident of someone knowing was not hugely embarrassing or emotionally powerful, I still think others could be.

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    2. Also, while there was not a huge amount of lasting emotional power in this friend knowing, there definitely was some. When I see her now, I am often acutely aware that she does know that I am spanked, and I can't help wondering whether when she's talking to me she ever wonders about it.

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    3. Hi Dan,
      Excellent insight from your own experience. I can see where it would make a huge difference if the person that you tell (or have as a witness) gets into the whole thing and finds it fascinating or exciting, compared to if they are more like the disinterested person hearing about your fishing trip.

      I hadn't necessarily thought about this directly, though I think indirectly I did in a way; as I was thinking of people, one of the first things that went through my mind was just how open they were to new things and how likely they were to be interested in it. And also, we had pretty well decided that part of telling people is starting with jokes and hints, and basically proceeding with them only if they appear to be at least interested, or at the very least open-minded about it.

      -ZM

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  10. - part 2 -

    Situational Knowledge:
    The other form of knowing is situational knowledge, where it is not just knowing that you are subject to punishment, but knowing about specific punishments (why, how, when, etc.).

    In the examples that Dan gave about the times he (as well as everybody else) knew about friends or cousins getting spanked, it was situational knowledge about a specific incident. And THAT was embarrassing, because generally everyone knew why you were being spanked, so there was the guilt surrounding that and the satisfaction they had of justice being served, knowing you had brought it upon yourself. And since they knew when you were spanked, they might have formed a mental picture of the spanking, they might have watched every time you sat down after, or they might have teased you about being spanked.

    As a child, when people knew you were just punished or were going to be, this was the only embarrassing part, since the general knowledge that your parents or others could spank you was understood by all and just taken for granted. And I expect it is also much more embarrassing for adults than knowledge of the spanking relationship would be, but probably different than it is for kids. On the one hand, adults really should know better than to do whatever it was that triggers a punishment, but on the other hand the fact that it is consensual and probably seen as tied to a kink could lessen the embarrassment at least somewhat, I would think.

    For this situational knowledge, the least embarrassing would be knowing that my wife told someone about a specific punishment (recent or upcoming). It would be more embarrassing for me if the person she told knew that I was aware that my wife told them. Next up would be open warnings of a spanking in front of others. More embarrassing still would be if my wife told others about me recently being spanked, while I was there. Further up the scale would be if my wife were to tell me in front of others that I am going to be spanked (like that night or something). And somewhere in this scale, probably at the most embarrassing end, would be if I had to either apologize to someone or tell them what I had done wrong and tell them that I was going to be spanked for it.

    I will address witnesses in part 3

    -ZM

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    1. You're right that the embarrassment I was talking about with childhood spankings was around specific spankings. Everyone definitely either knew or presumed that everyone else was spanked. It was just a ubiquitous part of the culture at that time and place.

      "Further up the scale would be if my wife were to tell me in front of others that I am going to be spanked (like that night or something)." That would be way up the scale for me, too.

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  11. -part 3 -

    Witnesses:
    I don’t know really where having one or more witnesses would fit in the embarrassment spectrum, since it would depend on so many things. So it is an individual spectrum, that most certainly overlaps the two “knowing” spectra, but I don’t know where they are relative to each other.

    I think that who the witness is would be much more important than it would be for people knowing. The fact that they are actually there seeing it (or perhaps hearing it), makes the embarrassment and emotional impact quite dependent on who they are.

    On the witnessing embarrassment spectrum, least embarrassing would be someone coming in while she is spanking me (unplanned). If this happened, presumably they would leave the room quickly and it would just be quite a bit of awkwardness after that. Much more embarrassing would be someone being aware that I am going to be spanked, and they are in the other room and can clearly hear the spanking when it happens. As Dan pointed out, this could be almost more embarrassing than them seeing it, since they completely know what is going on, but are using their vivid imagination as to just how hard I am being spanked, etc. So if they have a vivid imagination, it could paint a mental picture much worse than reality! A little worse than this, I would think would be someone being aware that I am going to be spanked, and they either come in at some pre-appointed time or I enter the room right before the spanking, with no real talking before or after. These visually witnessed spankings might actually be slightly less embarrassing, since I think maybe I would almost be si focused on them being there that I might not fully feel the embarrassment you would expect. And finally, the ones that seem the most embarrassing to me are the spankings as described by both Miss Cecilia and Danielle, where the poor spanked husband has to interact with and serve the witness(es) before the spanking, while wearing an apron or worse, and maybe explain why they are being punished. I just can’t imagine anything being much more embarrassing than that.

    And of course, one thing that witnesses add to the whole thing is suddenly I would be thinking a lot about just how well I was taking a spanking, because I would want to be brave and manly and all that, even though I was being spanked like a child. I would certainly not want to cry, since that would be the absolute worst. On the other hand, all the humiliation of it plus the fact that my wife would probably be delivering the hardest spanking of my life, since people tend to show off a bit in cases like that, probably would make me more likely to cry than at almost any other time. Talk about a predicament….!

    Now, as far as whether people knowing would have more emotional impact than people witnessing, or vice versa, I would have to answer with “it depends…” or “I don’t know,” which I believe are the two most correct answers to most questions!

    -ZM

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    1. "Much more embarrassing would be someone being aware that I am going to be spanked, and they are in the other room and can clearly hear the spanking when it happens."

      Agreed, and it is notable to me that one of the few times I have dreamed about spanking it involved a scenario of being taken out of a work social event, with everyone there knowing I was being taken out to be spanked.

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  12. ZM wrote: "“Much more embarrassing would be someone being aware that I am going to be spanked, and they are in the other room and can clearly hear the spanking when it happens. …they completely know what is going on, but are using their vivid imagination as to just how hard I am being spanked, etc. “

    With my former GF who was also the woman who introduced me to F/M spanking, I did have this experience – twice and twice within hearing of the same woman (K), who had been my GF’s best friend and roommate in college. The first one was something of a shock. We had talked about it “someday” happening but that was all.

    We were in my townhouse apartment and she and K had stopped to socialize while on a shopping trip. Stupidly I disobeyed a basic rule while we were chatting (third beer in the afternoon) thinking she would not notice or care.

    Without warning she just grabbed my arm and pulled me upstairs toward a hallway where she kept a hairbrush and straight back chair lecturing me loudly about being disobedient.
    Then continuing the scolding in the hallway while she arranged the chair and got me into position. Everything she said and probably every crack of that brush was probably heard downstairs in a small house.

    After she spanked me she put me in a corner which she rarely did after a spanking and told me to stay there until she called. She and K left soon after.

    Sometime later I learned my GF had planned the spanking before they came over and K knew it was going to happen and had known about the spankings for a while but not sure how she felt about them. My GF told me she was afraid I would be so well behaved she wouldn’t have an excuse to spark me but she knew she could “count on me”
    For a long time afterward I tried to imagine her friend’s reaction as she sat downstairs and heard everything. All my girlfriend would ever tell me is that she thought she had “handled “things well.

    The other overheard spanking was more than a year later during dinner when she thought I was challenging her authority and took me out of the room. I assume her friend heard that one too because when we returned the friend had an almost gloating look on her face. But probably because we had discussed the first overheard spanking so much, there was not much said about the second one.

    My GF had talked later about needing to actually spank me in front of K some day and I thought it would happen but it never did. I got the impression that K had tried to introduce spanking to her husband but he had resisted it and maybe she had lost interest as a result.
    Alan

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    1. Alan, those two incidents would definitely be way up on the scale of likely embarrassment that ZM laid out. Again, I don't know why I find the prospect of a spanking being overheard but not seen so much more emotionally compelling than someone seeing it, but I do.

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    2. Dan,
      Lacking your good sens to not go "poking around in someone else's psyche",I would hazard the guess that you are projecting your own vivid imagination onto a canvass.And in fact audio stimulation, as old time radio illustrated so well, unleashed imaginations for millions before the wide availability of video.Listen to some of the old time radio material sometime available on audible as well as in the public domain today.It can be an amazing experience. And just for the record, given the choice I would much rather hear a spanking going on than witness one if those were the choices.
      Alan



      Alan

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    3. Radio's depiction of inherently visual content really is incredibly interesting, isn't it? Every once in a while I hear part of a football game on radio, and the fact is I kind of get the information and can follow the action even though I'm not seeing it.

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    4. Alan,
      Thank you for writing about your experiences with this. I know you have written some about it before, but I couldn't remember exactly what your earlier experiences were.

      I have thought a lot more about someone visually witnessing a spanking than I have someone hearing one happening with full knowledge of what is going on. I think that either way would be very emotionally impactful. Having experienced both, how were the experiences the same and how were they different for you?

      -ZM

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    5. ZM wrote: “Having experienced both, how were the experiences the same and how were they different for you?”
      Good questions. I am not sure I ever completely processed it because the events were spread over a lot of time and involved different people in different relationships. So I am definitely thinking about this retrospectively as opposed to say, it all happening in the last year or so.
      I think I was more embarrassed with my former GF but that might have been because I hadn’t expected it, didn’t know her friend very well and it was all new. With my GF it was also more of a one off (although it did happen twice) and not discussed as something that would become part of our DD relationship There was also something of a drama about it especially in the hallway and when she pulled me out of dinner, like we were playing a role for her friend although I doubt I felt that way when it was happening.
      The experience with a witness was different in many ways. It was planned and everyone knew it was going to happen. I also know her sister very well, so I had a relationship with her. And there was a sense that this would not be a one off but was going to be a permanent part of our relationship, albeit used infrequently. Thinking about it now, the one off sense present with my GF but absent later with my wife, really mattered. With my GF it had a transient feel about it, almost like experimenting. But with my wife it feels permanent and has made our DD relationship and submitting to her authority more real. There are a lot of variables rolling about in there but I think being married and a member of the family present made it all a very different experience too. The severity of the spankings were different too. I don’t think my GF spanked me nearly as hard as she usually did. But my wife spanks harder with her sister present. If you figure that one out, let me know.
      Alan

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  13. Danielle here:

    Dan wrote: >>>The thought of family members knowing also makes me squirm and, again, I’m not sure why. I recall seeing one of my sisters get spanked, yet I would never want her to know I am spanked as an adult (though, in fairness, we don’t have much of an ongoing relationship). Somewhat similarly, my mother obviously knows I have been spanked, because when I was a kid she did the spanking. Yet, I would be very embarrassed if she found out I am now spanked as an adult, even if she probably has a lot of insight into how my temperament and behavior might lead my wife to relish taking on that role.<<<

    That reminds me of an interesting development in Wayne’s family. Wayne has been cleaning the apartment of his very elderly mother one day per week during the pandemic. That seemed safer than having a non-family member do it. Last week I accompanied Wayne for his weekly cleaning duty at his mother’s. I helped with the cleaning, but I let him do most of it while I helped my mother-in-law with a computer problem and conversed with her. She commented that Wayne does an excellent job cleaning, and joked that I have him well trained. I told her I was happy that he was doing a good job for her then joked that I needed to start cracking the whip a little at home again because things have been a bit lax lately due to some health problems he has had. With a twinkle in her eye, she said, “The whip or the hairbrush?”

    It turns out that Wayne’s mother knows I spank him because his sister Liz told her. When I told my mother-in-law that I was disappointed in Liz for not keeping a secret, she told me “it’s hard to keep secrets in this family”.

    Wayne is obviously embarrassed about this development and upset with his sister. He is worried about who else in the family knows. Did Liz tell her husband or her adult daughter or her other brother? (I think Wayne would have heard if Liz told their brother). I am annoyed with Liz too, but not overly annoyed. It isn’t a big deal for Wayne’s mother. She finds it amusing, and I don’t think she thinks any less of her son for it, so maybe this development isn’t a bad thing. I haven’t yet told Liz that I know she broke her promise to keep our secret. I’m thinking about how and when to do that. I had been playing with the idea of asking Liz whether she would like to witness a spanking, but I am reluctant to do that now.

    We are hoping to be able to get back to the tradition of a big family dinner for Thanksgiving this year. But it will be interesting, not knowing who knows we have a FLR with a DD component when the family gets together. I guess that I need to confront Liz to find out whether has blabbed to anyone else.

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    1. Wow! Truly, Wow! Really incredible that his mother told you that. It seems to me a lot like a real-life story on KD's website in which he shares telling his own mother about the spanking part of his lifestyle and it being no big deal to her.

      BUT, I do think Liz clearly deserves to GET a spanking, not watch one. It's one thing to receive a secret and a totally different thing to not respect one when it's given to you. While it may end up being a positive for Wayne in terms of his mom knowing about it and not being judgmental, it really is very bad form that his sister told her. If I were him, I wouldn't be forgiving about that at all absent some kind of actual apology from her.

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    2. Daniella said: “He is worried about who else in the family knows. Did Liz tell her husband or her adult daughter or her other brother? (I think Wayne would have heard if Liz told their brother”

      Dan quoted Franklin on secrets earlier asserting that three can keep a secret only of two are dead – a little hyperbole perhaps, but essentially true. We all gossip differing only in what we gossip about and how often. I have read at least one evolutionary sociologist who argued that we may be hard wired genetically to create social bonds by sharing information. I find that plausible but in any case very few people refrain from sharing juicy tidbits with at least one other person, often I suspect spouse, romantic partner or other close friend. And of course some people just babble to anyone and everyone. Of the several people that know I am spanked I assume at least twice that many have second hand knowledge of it. That is probably a very conservative estimate. But as I and others have noted, others knowing might be much ado about not much as far as the recipient of the gossip is concerned. So yes I think Liz behaved badly and I would not ask her to be a future witness, but her indiscretion is a very common one – and we in the spanko community are wise to keep tha in mind.
      Alan

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    3. "I have read at least one evolutionary sociologist who argued that we may be hard wired genetically to create social bonds by sharing information." While I do try to take evolutionary explanations for behavior with a grain of salt, that one does make sense to me. Given that we evolved in relatively small social/tribal units that required a fair amount of cooperation to keep everyone safe, fed, etc., it probably was an environment in which fewer secrets were better.

      I do share your concerns, or recognize the reality, that if you tell one person you probably are, in effect, telling others. I don't know whether the friend I told then told either of her husbands (she divorced a year or two after I told her and later remarried), but it certainly is possible.

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    4. Dan wrote: >>>BUT, I do think Liz clearly deserves to GET a spanking, not watch one. It's one thing to receive a secret and a totally different thing to not respect one when it's given to you. While it may end up being a positive for Wayne in terms of his mom knowing about it and not being judgmental, it really is very bad form that his sister told her. If I were him, I wouldn't be forgiving about that at all absent some kind of actual apology from her.<<<

      Spanking Liz! Now there's a thought. I'm sure Wayne would like to see that! Lol

      I agree with you that Liz owes Wayne an apology. But your reaction almost makes me feel guilty for not feeling angrier with Liz than I am. I have decided I want to talk to her about it in person, not by phone or in writing. I will tell her I feel disappointed and will be wary of telling her things in confidence in the future. I will also tell her she owes her brother an apology. However, part of the reason I don't feel too angry personally is that I am not sure I would keep a secret like that entirely to myself. For example, if my brother's wife revealed to me that she spanked my brother, I would probably, at the very least, tell my husband about it. I don't know whether Liz has told her husband, but I think you have to expect that people may talk about such "secrets" with their intimate partners. As to telling her mother, I would not have done that, but I think Liz is much closer to her mother than I was to my stepmother, so it's hard to put myself in her shoes. I haven't experienced that kind of close mother/daughter relationship, as either a mother or a daughter, so I'm not sure how to judge it. The other reason I'm not more angry is that I honestly don't mind Wayne's mother knowing about it. I got the feeling from her that Liz didn't spill the beans in a spirit of a malicious gossip, but as an affectionate story about someone they both love, if that makes sense.

      Allan wrote: >>>It’s only an n of 2 but the reveal about Wayne’s mother knowing his wife spanks him plus KD’s earlier story recounting his mother’s reaction to also knowing does raise an interesting point. Within the family does anyone actually care if your wife spanks you? How big of a deal is it really?<<<

      That's another reason I don't feel angry, and I don't think Wayne should be TOO upset. It seems not to be a big deal at all. I would have expected someone as old as Wayne's mother to be shocked, but maybe living to that age makes some people less susceptible to being shocked. Wayne's mother said that the most important thing is that Wayne and I are both happy and that it looks to her like we are.
      Danielle

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    5. Hi Danielle. I get why you aren't angry, and please see my comment to Alan, which I posted at about the same time your comment was posted. As you'll see, I agree that spouses are going to talk. At some point, I will probably just come out and ask my friend whether she told her husband(s), but I would honestly be kind of surprised if she didn't.

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  14. Dan writes" " ...a lot like a real-life story on KD's website in which he shares telling his own mother about the spanking part of his lifestyle and it being no big deal to her"

    It’s only an n of 2 but the reveal about Wayne’s mother knowing his wife spanks him plus KD’s earlier story recounting his mother’s reaction to also knowing does raise an interesting point. Within the family does anyone actually care if your wife spanks you? How big of a deal is it really? The Eleanor Roosevelt quote Dan posted earlier nails it pretty well. We all are eternally, if not obsessively, interested in what happens to us. But what happens to others –maybe not so much.
    Add to that the reality that adult spanking is nonnews among anyone today with any sophistication, finding out your wife spanks you might just cause a big yawn in many cases
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan,
      I would certainly be VERY shy about anyone in my family knowing, and pretty shy about anyone in my wife's family knowing, except perhaps her sister, which would be less uncomfortable than others.

      But you are certainly right that it is probably a much bigger deal to us than it is to anyone else. One thing that my wife and I discovered is that initially, the thought of telling anyone anything at all seemed about impossible, but as we have shared at least a little bit, it has turned out to be not that big of a deal, and certainly nowhere near as impossible as we had made it out to be. Why? Mostly because nobody really cares nearly as much as we think they will.

      -ZM

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  15. Hi Dan,
    For all my writing this week, I never answered the questions you asked, so here goes!

    “Assuming that you are, like most of us, more or less closeted where your DD relationship is concerned, what is it that holds you back from letting others know?” - I am sure the primary thing that has kept me from telling others (until more recently) is fear, mostly of rejection. Not so much that they would reject me as a person or that it would change the relationship, but rather that I could see that they think it is weird or bad in some way, and that would leave me feeling bad. Like when I shared this with my ex-wife, and she totally rejected the very thought of it. That was a crushing rejection. Not only did I feel like she was personally rejecting me, since she knew how important it was for me yet didn’t even care to learn more about it, but also because it meant that I would never get that which I so wanted/needed since I was absolutely resolute that I would live my whole life married to her. I am one who doesn’t like rejection at all, to the point that I don’t like to go into a store to ask if they have something if I think it is unlikely that they do. I don’t even call and invite my closest friends to go grab coffee or anything, because it feels bad when they can’t.

    “Is there a specific social or professional stigma that leads you to keep it secret from most others?” - Socially, probably somewhat, because I was from a very conservative (religious, politically, and in every other way) background. So all my family is very conservative, and most of my friends were also when I was living in the USA. And one thing that unfortunately seems to come with conservative Christians is gossip, so telling one meant telling everyone and being seen as a pariah.

    Professionally, I don’t think it was much of a consideration. I am an engineer… Nobody expects us to be normal. Probably if I were too normal, people might question my professional competence! :-) And anyone who has ever had to repair most any device, machine, or vehicle probably probably be quite in favor of engineers being taken over someone’s knee and given a good long spanking. The same is most likely true for anyone who has had to interact with them on a daily basis! All joking aside, I don’t think people knowing would have had any real career ramifications.

    “Are there particular people or groups of people that you are most concerned about finding out? Why?” - Primarily anyone in my family, or any of the other very conservative people I have had around me all my life. I guess I am afraid I would somehow be a disappointment to them. I don’t know why I care so much about their approval, since their lack of acceptance would be more on them than on me, but I guess it is because if you spend your lifetime trying to live up to impossible standards, you get kind of used to it.

    “What do you think would happen if those people were to find out? Would there be big ramifications, or do we over-estimate how much anyone would really care?” - In reality, nothing would happen. Maybe they would be disappointed (or not). And and life would go on. Certainly we over-estimate how much anyone would really care. Even those who love me most, like my mom, might not agree with something that I choose to do, but she still primarily wants me to be happy, and she can see that I am. And most of the others really don’t care all that much. They would probably find it interesting or peculiar, and maybe would talk to a few others about it (though most likely not), and then not think about it again, at least until we run into each other.

    -ZM

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  16. "In reality, nothing would happen. Maybe they would be disappointed (or not). And and life would go on. Certainly we over-estimate how much anyone would really care." I think that's probably right.

    I do understand, btw, why it might be harder to be open to many in the culture you live in now. I think that most of my friends probably would be surprised and it might be a subject of gossip for awhile, then no one would care. But, I do have one friend from a very dominant, macho culture, and I would be very surprised if he was accepting

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  17. I think for us DD has become a 'whole life' thing in that it is not just about the act of discipline but the atmosphere of control, boundaries and the sense that the Lady has the last word at almost all times. Most of our circle & family have a clear sense that my wife is 'in charge' in a positive way and although none is aware of the spanking aspect I am ambivalent about people knowing that I am disciplined in the way that I am. I think the idea of having a witness however, to the event of me being disciplined, with all it's unique intimacy is 'hot' for sure, but fundamentally in my mind changes the aura from one of discipline to discipline plus a strong sexual element. And whilst I am clear that the sexual element is a strong under current in the majority of DD situations, having a witness feels more like some variation on group sex than discipline! More a fantasy than a potential reality...!
    TB

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