"If you don't ask, the answer is always no." -- Nora Roberts
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.
I hope you all had a great week. Mine had some ups and downs. On the upside, the weather this great was beautiful. Good motorcycling and hiking weather may be right around the corner.
On the upside (sort of), after putting myself on a glidepath to taking some serious time off and maybe even a temporary retirement, for a while it looked like an opportunity that I’ve wanted for years might be within my grasp. But, no luck. Deep down inside, I knew it was for the best, as I know I’m nowhere close to really recovering from last year’s burnout, and I really do need to take some time to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. But, it really did bum me out for a few days. That moodiness and some behavioral issues has me concerned that I might be backsliding after several months of getting myself onto a much better path. So, I made it clear to Anne over the weekend that it probably would be good for both of us to rein me in before I jump the guardrails in a big way. We’ll see what comes of that but, in the meantime, it was a nice segue into a topic suggestion from Belle. She sent me an email suggesting the following:
I would like to hear from every husband who presented DD to his wife: How exactly did he broach the subject? What exactly did he say? How did it go? What was his wife's initial reaction? Did the DD start immediately, or was it a process before the first spanking? And now, looking back on it, would he have approached her any differently? What advice would he give to men who want to ask their wives but aren't sure how?
These are very similar to a topic and sub-topics suggested by “Elizabeth” a couple of years ago, but let’s do it again. I love these “origins” topics, and it seems like Anne and I have had such a long break, getting started again is almost like starting over entirely, including the necessity of me approaching her to ask for it.
How exactly did he broach the topic? I approached Anne a few days after I discovered The Disciplinary Wives Club website and became a little obsessed. I was very embarrassed about it and had no idea how she would react. I think because I was so embarrassed, I talked to her about it when we were in bed, with the lights off so she couldn’t see my face. I broached it by telling her that I’d found this “interesting” website. I told her in general what it was about.
What was her initial reaction? How did it go? She didn’t say no, so that was a start. She seemed at least somewhat interested, though it was kind of hard to tell what she was thinking. I would characterize it as puzzled, open, but noncommittal. I told her that I would send her a link to the website. She said she would check it out, but I kind of doubted she would. I recall going to sleep even more wired and on edge, because I had no idea what to expect. Honestly, I thought the most likely scenario was she wouldn't follow up at all, or that she would reject the idea as just more erotic spanking with the potential to encourage more bad behavior.
Well, I was in for a surprise. She called me at work the next day and said she had looked at the website. There was a pause, and she said something like: "Very interesting." I asked what that meant. There was another pause, and she said something to the effect of, “Well, if you are really serious about this, I guess you better go buy me a heavy hairbrush.
Did the DD start immediately, or was it a process before the first spanking? She gave me my first spanking that same night. I did as she’d said and left work early that afternoon to shop for a hairbrush. It turned out to be more difficult than I’d thought to find a good quality, heavy wooden brush. I did the best I could, but looking back, what I finally found and brought home was pretty flimsy. What I really remember about that afternoon is walking around the mall with a raging hard-on in my pants and frantic butterflies in my stomach! It really was incredibly intense. When I got home, we sat down after dinner and talked a little bit about what should be spankable, etc. I actually hadn’t done anything that met the criteria that recently, and she asked whether we were waiting until I did. I told her that I was afraid that if we did that, it would never happen, so I suggested we should get the first one over with that night.
Looking back, would I have approached her any differently? I don’t really think so. I think I struck the right notes in the initial conversation, telling her why I thought this could be good for us and for her. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe I should have prepared a little more, including taking more time to find a real brush, or maybe suggesting she start with a belt or something more serious than the too-flimsy brush I bought at her direction. But, I really had no idea whether she would respond positively to the whole thing, nor did I really have any concept of what a real adult spanking was like or what it required. It took more experimentation and more serious tools before it became “real.” But, I think I did about all I could at the time given the state of my knowledge and experience.
What advice would he give to men who want to ask their wives but aren't sure how? The way we did it ultimately worked, so for me the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. While I hadn’t even heard of DD when we started experimenting with erotic spanking, I do think that early kink-based spanking may have lowered her inhibitions about the whole thing, so the ground was prepped a bit when the concept of DD came along. I think giving her a resource like the DWC to look at and absorb at her own pace was helpful. I think it was also important to tell her honestly that I had found this concept and that it had hit me pretty hard. I think she detected the earnestness in that conversation in bed in the dark.
So, please tell us how you or your husband approached you about having a DD relationship or asked you to give him a “real” spanking. I look forward to hearing about it.
Have a great week.
Our situation was different from most as I did not have to directly ask my wife about DD.
ReplyDeleteSpanking was part of our relationship since we were dating but it was always me doing the spanking and I had no real desire to be spanked.
I used to buy the Penthouse Variations booklet as it often featured spanking , but some issues also featured FM Spanking which was not so common at the time.
Clearly my wife read these and took them to heart as much of what happened was similar to the FM Spanking articles.
We had a dispute about some furniture we were buying and I ended up giving her a fiery spanking for contacting the store to confirm our order , when I thought we should keep looking.
As was usually the case she turned out to be right , but after the spanking , she took me by surprise by warning me that "Don't worry, you're going to get yours!" , similar to words used by a disciplinary wife in the Variations stories.
I thought nothing of it, until a week or so later when I was keeping us late for an appointment and made matters worse by being rude and flippant with her.
I was in the bathroom shaving and wearing only my jockeys when she announced , "Well if I can get a spanking then so can you!" (also words strikingly similar to the Variations story).
She called me into the bedroom and had one of my leather slippers in her hand.
She sat down and firmly ordered me over her lap.
I was taken completely by surprise and initially refused but she remained resolute.
I went over her lap , fully expecting a few playful slaps but she promptly whisked down my jockeys and really went to town on my bare behind with that slipper.
I remember it really surprised me as to how hard she spanked and how much it hurt.
It wasn't a long spanking , maybe 30 or 40 good licks but my butt was red and stinging after and the the was set.
That spanking really boosted her confidence and although nothing formal was agreed , it was me who was getting spanked now and not her.
She already had a pretty sturdy hairbrush which she introduced and I even made her a paddle for our anniversary which the gratefully accepted and used.
Even though I initially had no desire to be spanked , I believe it was the exchange of power and her newfound assertiveness that I found attractive and compelling.
She seemed to really enjoy her new role as much as I did and clearly liked forward to roasting my behind at every opportunity.
Some 30 odd years later , she still picks up that hairbrush or a paddle when needed , although not as often.
I remember those Penthouse Variations booklets, and they probably were my first exposure to adult spankings. But, you are right, the stories were almost all M/f.
DeleteHow did I approach her?
ReplyDeleteWe had a lot of discussions prior to the wedding about various practical issues regarding how married life would be and I mentioned it during one of these discussions.
Obviously, I told her when we were out of earshot of others!
How exactly did I broach the topic?
I suppose I was fairly nonchalant about it. I just regarded it as being among the issues that would be good to get out in the open early, rather than endure the stress of leaving it till the wedding night.
I presented it as just something that goes on with many married couples.
What exactly did I say?
I started by saying that I knew about this way of doing things and explaining a few summary details.
I suggested that we start at the wedding night and establish it as part of the nightly routine for dealing with all offences since the last spanking (so that we never let the sun go down on our anger) and till I was in tears.
I asked her if it was okay to buy a paddle to bring along on the wedding night.
What was her initial reaction? How did it go?
She agreed to me buying the paddle.
She said she thought DD was a good idea and thanked me from saving her from having to ask say as a last resort a few years down the line.
Did the DD start immediately, or was it a process before the first spanking?
DD commenced on the wedding night as agreed. I found it hard to concentrate on much else that day! I also had intermittent boners that got more frequent as the time approached! Being the first time, it was intense, as she had more offences to deal with.
When we were consummating our marriage, I asked her if things lived up to her expectations (obviously not using those exact words) and she said that broadly, it di.
Looking back, would I have approached her any differently?
I struggle to think of how I could have done it differently.
Maybe I would have approached it subtly beforehand to quietly gauge what she thought about the subject to see if my approach needed to be different, but it all went ahead as planned, so this was probably unnecessary.
What advice would I give to men who want to ask their wives but aren't sure how?
Think about everything you know about the subject which might give a clue regarding how she will react. See if you can subtly extract information from her (e.g. a disguised question). Use the information you have to refine your approach as far as possible.
Think about how to structure the discussion based on timing. If, for instance, this is a last resort prior to a divorce, emphasise the character-changing effects and how it is an outlet for offences not yet dealt with. If you are not yet married and have no carnal knowledge of each other and there are no major offences not yet dealt with, tell her about the erotic side of things.
Thanks, Hugh. I agree that subtly extracting information about any pre-existing attitudes toward spanking (positive or negative) could be helpful.
DeleteYou're welcome, though I must admit, I don't know how to explain to others how to subtly extract it without her knowing what he is up to! Maybe start by saying that you are looking to have a common stance about how to discipline future children when they misbehave and then quietly shift the conversation on towards adult discipline?
DeleteAfter the subtle seeking information:
Delete"I have a confession, dear, an apology, and a suggestion for the future. I have acted extremely immaturely in the past, and I know my behavior has been really difficult for you. I realize this now, and I apologize for it. I am going to try to be more mature, but I think it is going to take a while, and you can help by pointing it out to me and not standing for it. When I act like a child, I suggest you treat me like a child and punish me. Ground me, spank me, fine me, take away my favorite toys, give me extra chores, whatever you think will work. Being treated this way will improve my behavior and help me be a better husband to you."
I've covered this before here an elsewhere, but I'll oblige.
ReplyDelete>>>> How exactly did he broach the subject?<<<<<
It was pretty easy. I had suggested that Rosa move in with me and she worried that "my place" would never feel like "her place". So I suggested taking the D/s spanking we were already doing to another level, wherein she could make up her own "House Rules" enforced by more serious spankings as punishment.
>>>>What exactly did he say? How did it go? What was his wife's initial reaction?<<<<<<
Pretty much said what I wrote, that this could be a logical step in what we were already doing and that by having her own rules for the way she likes things done. (we already were having a shower diverter impasse) she could get her way in a place that would then feel more like "hers". It went fine. Even if she wasn't going to go for it, there was no reason it shouldn't. But she immediately liked the idea and agreed that it was indeed a "next logical step" that not only made perfect sense but was a completely reasonable and natural way for us to live. Her only additional caveat was that if this was to be our lifestyle, we would not keep it hidden like some 'dirty secret' but be open about it....especially within the household, meaning that she had no desire to not have her kids be somewhat aware of what we were doing. That surprised me, but I went along with it, and it worked out beautifully.
>>>>> Did the DD start immediately, or was it a process before the first spanking?<<<<<
I don't recall. We were already doing stuff like this anyway, and I believe we spent some time coming up with a set of rules which we posted on our inner bedroom door. Over the years they have been tweaked, but the signed 'contract; is still there. But eventually we found some cause for that first real discipline.....and it wasn't earthshaking.
>>>>>>And now, looking back on it, would he have approached her any differently?<<<<
No. Rosa always used to like to have "reasons" even to play-spank.....something it took some time for me to get used to. Having REAL reasons seemed like such a serendipitous solution that presenting DD wasn't stressful for me but logical. She reacted pretty much as I thought she would. In fact, the biggest shock to me was how easily she adopted the practice without seeing what I saw as a huge concession on my part, but rather feeling quite comfortable with the authority, like it just made sense. Given my personality, willing as I was, I saw it as a much bigger deal....and still do.
>>>>>>>What advice would he give to men who want to ask their wives but aren't sure how?<<<<<<
I think reasons for this are deeply personal and often unique. The majority here seem to have behavioral issues practically alien to us and attitudes towards discipline and consent equally alien. So I don't know if I should offer such advice. But I will say this to UN married guys: settle this all BEFORE getting married. Don't get entangled in a relationship while withholding something this important to you with the eventual need to bring it up later to someone who might possibly have no interest in it. Hell, even a D/s-BDSM aficionado might balk at the thought of using it all for "DD" as we discuss it here.
It is interesting that she made it an express caveat that her kids should know about it, right out of the gate. With us, it's always been the opposite -- I am the one who is more open to them knowing. I wouldn't say I exactly what them to know, but I don't have a major problem with it.
DeleteObviously it was a big enough deal to warrant discussion, and her explanation was that she didn't want secrecy to prevent her from acting. She wanted to be able to just confront me and then escort me to the room regardless of who was around and with three there would seemingly never be an empty house thereby thwarting any spontaneous action. She also said she wanted them knowing that decisions on any lifestyle are nothing to be ashamed of. BUT she also very obviously liked the extra embarrassment it caused me. Initially she seemed to like to confront me for attitude at the table and lead me to the room by hand with them smiling at my plight and within easy range of hearing the proceedings. I will say it made our arrangement seem very natural though and it certainly had a seemingly positive effect.
DeleteIt all makes perfect sense. In our case, trying to keep it secret definitely did result in all sorts of ill effects: delayed spankings, foregone spankings that had been richly deserved, not to mention her never quite stepping into the authority I was wiling to give her, including confronting and dealing with me immediately. because it would have meant being more visibly in charge.
DeleteThis is really food for thought for me. My parents never discussed with my brothers and me that they used DD, but they didn't try hard to hide the sounds of it either. I recall several instances when one of them said, "Let's go have a discussion," and we shortly heard the sounds of spanking. But Art and I have been very secretive about it with our kids. I'm not even sure why! I know it would be embarrassing for Art, and I do not intentionally mean to embarrass him. But the advantages that KD presents seem very real. And since our DD is not kink for us, we would not be imposing our sexual inclinations on the kids. However, I do like to be spanked as foreplay and I would not discuss that with them. I'm going to have to think about this some more, and discuss it with Art as well.
DeleteLiz
Over the years, there have been a few female commenters here who have said something to the effect of: "Mom was the disciplinarian in our house, and that meant dad, too." Or, "Mom handled the spanking in hour house - Dad right along with the kids." It does seem to me that in households like yours that use spanking to discipline the kids, it doesn't seem that odd to the kids that Dad gets it to. They just seem to kind of accept that mom is in charge of everyone, dad included. I'm not suggesting that you do it but, as you say, food for thought.
DeleteFYI, I don't know that we ever had an express conversation about whether to hide it from the kids. We just always did. Later on, when I started suggesting to Anne that I was OK with her being more open about her status, she said that she worried that the kids would think less of me if they knew I was spanked. I can see the logic of her concern, but based on the anecdotes I've encountered on this blog, none of the women whose mom's spanked their dads seem to have lost respect for their dads as a result. (Though, the data set is severely limited.) I also think kids are pretty capable for figuring out the chain of command. Just because mom has some power over dad doesn't mean the kids will think that dad's status is below their own. And, I think even in totally vanilla relationships there is one spouse who clearly has the final say on disputed things or who clearly dominates the relationship. Kids are pretty good at reading power dynamics, and I'm not sure that many would think mom transparently calling the shots and doling out consequences is really such a big thing. Again, just food for thought, and I offer while acknowledging that we have, in fact, not taken that step ourselves.
On this subject, when we had the discussion before the wedding, we decided we wanted to inform the children as soon as it was reasonable (admittedly, the details thereof still need deciding). There is a danger of them finding out and us not being in control, but also, we wouldn't mind rationalising the idea to both sons and daughters in good time before they are adults. We would want sons to be receptive to the idea to maintain marital harmony when they get married and daughters to feel this is something they could reasonably expect of a future husband. Also, it would help reinforce the message that there are consequences for everyone, including me, when they misbehave.
DeleteArt and I handle discipline like my parents did: After puberty mom spanks the girls and dad spanks the boys. So one of those statements that "mom handles all the discipline in our family, including dad" would not be accurate for us.
DeleteAs I mentioned below, I do think it would be good at some point to discuss DD with my girls as an option in dealing with their husband's misbehavior. But I don't want them to think I am suggesting that they do this with their current boyfriends because I think that likely encourages a sexual relationship. Unless they did it in an asexual way like Art and I do. I don't know. I need to keep thinking.
Liz
Liz: why would you assume the girls should be the dominant ones? Do you feel only F/m dynamics are valid in DD? Most DD blogs are M/f. ( just do a quick search) F/m is actually the minority within a minority. Our decision was to make "DD" in general one possible choice in life but always brought up others. The idea was to empower young people to be confident in their decisions, but not endorse one over the other. I think as a parent, there is big difference between "you CAN do this ...or anything that appeals to you....if you want" versus "we recommend you do this".
DeleteI think women, especially young women like my daughters, are still working to feel empowered. Most do not yet feel they have equal power with their male partners. Some of that is physical, most of it is cultural and historical. F/m DD can help provide power to women. M/f DD would tend to reduce the already less power that women have. I wouldn't recommend it to my daughters, though two-way DD like my parents did would be OK with me.
DeleteLiz
I think there is a middle ground, which is that it depends 100% on the individual kid. I think *in general* F/m dominance can be empowering for women and that more women that men do go through life feeling disempowered. But, I also know women who are on the receiving end of DD and D/s relationships who are into it for much the same reasons I am -- they are very type-A personalities who want someone to rein them in. But, it's all individual. I have one kid who I think maybe could profit from having someone else set boundaries, impose order and discipline, etc. I have another who I think would get little out of it on either side of the paddle, though I don't pretend to know all the details of what motivates them in private.
DeleteLiz: >>>>>>You said: "I think women, especially young women like my daughters, are still working to feel empowered. Most do not yet feel they have equal power with their male partners. Some of that is physical, most of it is cultural and historical. F/m DD can help provide power to women. M/f DD would tend to reduce the already less power that women have. I wouldn't recommend it to my daughters, though two-way DD like my parents did would be OK with me."<<<<<<
DeleteAll I can say in return is that I would love to see the reaction that would get if posted on a M/f DD blog. Many women feel like the decision to act on their desires....even submissive ones.....is indicative of their empowerment to decide things for themselves. Why is the role important? Are sub males less empowered then? It doesn't feel that way to me in the real world. I think living as I have chosen to do, is pretty bold, and many would (and have) agreed. Why is that different for a female?
KD,
DeleteIt's different for the same reason that the black experience is different from the white experience. All minorities, including women (who have been treated as a minority even if they are more than 50 percent of the population), have since this nation began been put down, demeaned, and treated unfairly economically, socially, and legally. The Declaration of Independence in truth should have read: "All white men with property are created equal." Frankly, minorities still need help from the old white men who have always been in power to achieve full equality (if that is ever achievable in this historically bigoted nation).
My daughters and other young females still have less power than the males of their generation, despite everything you hear and read about women coming into their own and taking control. And that is still true of every generation. The glass ceiling is still real. The gender disparity in government officials, elected and appointed, is still real. If Biden doesn't make it to 2024, Kamala Harris will have no chance to be elected, in my view, despite being on the winning Biden ticket. And there is only one reason: she is a minority (by race and gender).
I don't know if spanked women truly feel empowered. I think they hope to feel protected, cared for, held accountable, and loved, and maybe those things are empowering. But empowered by being treated like a little kid and spanked by your spouse? I don't think so. Art doesn't feel empowered by being paddled by me, by submitting to me. He feels accountable. He feels better able to behave. And again, maybe those things result in a feeling of empowerment, but to me there is a difference between the hoped-for outcomes of punishment and the punishment itself.
And those are all the reasons why I would encourage my daughters (if we ever have the conversation) to be on the same end of the paddle as me.
Liz
Danielle here:
DeleteI think I agree with KD about this. I grew up in a conservative, patriarchal environment, so FLR feels like a gender role reversal to me, which I find satisfying. And my husband and I have some kinky fun playing with gender role stereotypes. But when it comes down to it, my husband is getting what he wants, so on a certain level he is empowered by FLR. I am also aware that way more women are into M/F than F/M. Just look at the popularity of Fifty Shades among women. I like to think that if I was the one who had a sexual desire to be spanked, my husband would do that for me. Actually, I know he would because he frequently offers to. When I ask him why I should let him do that, he says he feels selfish always receiving and never giving. I tell him that I don't mind always being on the giving side of spankings, as long as I am always on the receiving side of oral sex. ;-)
Interesting line-up of opinions here. While I'm not in any either-or camp on this, my view is probably closer to Liz. At a very general level, it seems hard to deny that for most of human history, in about every society on the planet, men have held more power and women less, often with men not just holding more power but holding it *over* women. Even if we have made progress on that front, it seems to me that if one partner in a relationship is likely to have been conditioned to take on a secondary, less empowered role, it is far more likely to have been the woman. So, to the extent we are looking at DD as some kind of power equalizer, then I think it is, in fact, more likely to help empower a woman. Now, saying that in general or on average I think that is the case is very different than saying I think it is *always* the case. As I said, when I look at my own daughters, I think one might benefit from being on the receiving end, based on what I see of her temperament and how she reacts to boundaries being imposed. The other one? I'm not sure DD would fill any particular need for her on *either* side of the paddle.
DeleteI also get the distinction Liz seems to be making about the difference between DD filling some need on the one hand, and being empowered on the other. She said, "I don't know if spanked women truly feel empowered. I think they hope to feel protected, cared for, held accountable, and loved, and maybe those things are empowering. But empowered by being treated like a little kid and spanked by your spouse? I don't think so." That makes perfect sense to me, at least if the word "empowered" has the connotations I think it has.
Liz: Fair enough. I am going to test this theory by sending your opinion to a M/f sub female’s blog for response. I am very curious to see their reaction.
DeleteDan:
Delete> "At a very general level, it seems hard to deny that for most of human history, in about every society on the planet, men have held more power and women less, often with men not just holding more power but holding it *over* women."
This is completely wrong. Patriarchy as a form of social structure appeared only during the Neolithic Revolution, when there was a transition from a collecting economy to a producing one. This was roughly 7,000 to 12,000 years ago. Not so much in the history of mankind.
Before that, that is, most of anthropogenesis, tens of thousands of years, human hunter-gatherer societies were egaliatric, as indicated by most research:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/348/6236/796
It is also worth noting that most of the modern hunter-gatherer communities known to science also have an egalitarian structure.
Артём,
DeleteExcellent point and a reminder that to really understand male and female behavior we need to widen our historical scope much further back into evolutionary time. We tend to think of "history" as comprising only the 10 thousand or so years since the agricultural revolution and written history. But the history ( and nature) of homo sapiens goes back 200, 000 years or so
Alan
OK. So, if I change it to, "for the last 12,000 years . . ." ???
DeleteMost readers here know my relationship with Shilo is F/m, and that has worked out really well for the both of us.
DeleteEven though he has been the recipient of many spankings, I still have given him authority over many things due to his ability to just be better at those than me.
Now over the past 3 years, I have been seeing "B" who I am in a M/f disciplinary situation that is more BDSM than DD, but still, I don't feel any less empowered in the relationship. He may be "in charge," but my actions are what determines if I receive disciplinary measures, so yes, I am very good, so it is a rare occasion that I receive them.
I am perhaps a little more soft-spoken with him, but I am also opinionated and I won't hesitate to tell him. He listens to what I have to say, and his wife might have a differing opinion, but because of my approach, he tends to listen and follow my guide in things. So yes, very empowered in BOTH situations.
Thanks, Merry. This is fascinating, that you spank one guy and are spanked by another guy and find both relationships empowering. So you feel like you are the one who determines when you will be disciplined because you know what behaviors to avoid?
DeleteLiz
Hi Liz!
DeletePretty much. There's more than just that, because if I choose to be disobedient, I might have to wait to receive discipline, and THAT is torture.
What I like is that I still have the ability to make decisions, I can give my opinion, and more often than not, I get what I want how I want it.
When we were early on in our dating I found a notice on what was to later mature as the Internet about a spanking party planned in Los Angeles by Shadow Lane. The "Internet" then was just a place where a few people posted notices, much like a bulletin board outside a local store.
ReplyDeleteI asked her to go to this costume party with me; omitting anything about the spanking part until we were on the way. Fortunately for me she was very open-minded. There were probably 200 people there and after that we both knew there was such a thing as the "spanking scene."
Maybe a month later an incident arose, the first time we had a major disagreement -- one of the extremely few actually--- She was insisting on taking the legal and risk free approach and I was insisting on a devil-may-care risk it for the money direction.
That's when her red-haired temper showed itself and before I really grasped what was happening I found out what a real disciplinary paddling was like. We did things her way and never looked back as far as our lifestyle.
Maybe this reflects on al's comments about the 70s, but it really does seem pretty funny that you invited her to a "costume party," omitting the spanking part, and yet she was fine with it!
DeleteWe laughed about that for years. She was always way more open and experimental. Except for being highly motivated by sex, I was always on the shy side about matters like that.
DeleteAgain, my scenarios are different than most. My second wife was a NYC Pro Domme and our marriage was merely an extension of our dungeon sessions. Right from the start, the marriage became one 24/7, D/s session. When that failed, I was alone for awhile before meeting my now current life partner. We were dating and she was aware of the lifestyle, but not a participant, when she asked me to move in with her on a permanent basis. It was then we had "the talk' and I informed her of the kind of life I wanted. A 24/7, female-led, D/s, DD household. Being mature adults, I just began with that topic, not beating around the bush. She reacted a bit hesitant, but was generally agreeable. I recall her saying bluntly, I have no experience, but I know how to spank. We discussed everything beforehand, made and compared lists of expectations, rules, chores and punishments. When did it start???? the day I moved in, after the last box of my belongs was carried in, She said "if we are doing this, we are doing it right...take off all your clothes, you're getting spanked right now to start things off". So my first spanking was literally seconds after our relationship began. Would I do things differently now?, I don't think so. The most basic and direct worked for me and may for most. Advice for others....exactly that, say what you want, and work things out together. The DD lifestyle, like any alternative lifestyle is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. People practice DD and there are more doing so than one would believe.
ReplyDelete"Advice for others....exactly that, say what you want, and work things out together." I think that's great as a general principle. Every once in a while, there is someone like Danielle (see below) who rejected her husband's first attempt. But, I'm always a little surprised at how many women seem open to at least accommodating his request, even if at first they think it is kind of weird.
DeleteI think so many women accommodate DD requests because they need power over their male partners to quell immature behavior.
DeleteMy wife was in a spanking relationship with her first husband which left her with strong feelings about what side of the paddle she belonged. We were introduced by a good mutual friend after my recent breakup with a previous girlfriend after a very intense DD relationship. We started out as good friends, began dating and it evolved pretty quickly into a female led relationship without much talk about spanking other than the implicit understanding it would be a part of our relationship. The first hard disciplinary spanking she gave me was for a temper tantrum and she spanked me with the same paddle her husband used on her making it into a kind of ceremony. We worked out a formal list of punishable behavior, but by the end of the first year she had demanded (and received) unlimited authority to determine what was spankable and so it remains today. With the girlfriend who actually introduced me to spanking it was a longer path. She was vanilla as far as any kink experience but often expressed very positive feelings about spanking, often indicating this person or that that needed a “good ass warming”( We did later conclude that her mother had probably disciplined her father but she did not know that when we met). That positive attitude about spanking led me to slowly tell her about my own interest in spanking. She had no interest in erotic spanking or being spanked but paid attention when I confided to her that sometimes I felt I still needed a good spanking. She quizzed me about my experiences and attitudes about spanking but didn’t say much herself other than to say she had observed some “self-destructive” traits in me that shouldn’t be ignored. That was it for several weeks and I came to think our spanking discussions were over and whatever interest she had was over. Then one Sunday (never forget that day) she called and said she would be dropping over to my apartment that night and I shouldn’t make any other plans. She later showed up with a large package that contained a custom made hard wood paddle (a friend made it for her). That night she spanked me with that paddle in every room in the apartment, leaving me nose pressed in a corner with a timer set for 45 minutes and instructions to call her when my corner time was up and we would talk. I did call and we talked probably for hours about how I felt, how she felt, what had just happened and what we should do as “a couple”. It all just evolved naturally from there so that in a month or so she was regularly disciplining me with spankings and it just got integrated into our relationship. Looking back on it I am still amazed how fast she went from totally vanilla with no experience to a committed disciplinarian. My wife’s transformation was a little less dramatic but she had no real experience as a disciplinarian either until we met. It has left me feeling there are many women who have the predisposition to be natural disciplinarians when they find themselves in a situation that triggers that instinct.
ReplyDeleteAlan
Alan,
DeleteI agree with this, that women can be natural disciplinarians when it is triggered in them, as it wasn't a big leap from spanking my kids to spanking my husband. However, I did not think of it myself, as for some reason I needed my husband to ask for it, even though my parents had spanked each other. I think it's because the women of my/our generation are conditioned to be somewhat subservient to their husbands. I think this is why I didn't speak up against his arrogance toward our children earlier. He was the man of the house and he was supposed to know best. I think this is a terrible way for women to grow up, and I hope they are not being raised that way any more. I certainly am not raising my daughters that way. I feel guilty that I let him treat our kids badly for so long.
I do think that most women are not going to come up with the idea themselves to physically punish their husbands. Maybe because the man is usually physically stronger, but I think in most cases it has to be his idea. Something for those wishful husbands to think about is that if they never bring it up it probably is never going to happen.
Liz
Alan and Liz, I totally agree that even if a woman has never thought about being a disciplinarian to her husband, it seems to be something that many can take up surprisingly easily once the opportunity is presented.
DeleteAlan, you said: "That was it for several weeks and I came to think our spanking discussions were over and whatever interest she had was over." While my wife responded much more quickly than that after I showed her the DWC website, she has that same tendency to go silent while mulling things over. I used to think that her silence indicated a lack of interest, but I've learned over time that's not the case. While I am kind of all about snap judgments, she takes her time processing things and doesn't necessarily feel a need to show me that she's thinking things through until she is finished doing so.
DeleteLiz,
Liz wrote: “I do think that most women are not going to come up with the idea themselves to physically punish their husbands. Maybe because the man is usually physically stronger, but I think in most cases it has to be his idea … if they never bring it up it probably is never going to happen.” Liz, maybe the way you are raising your girls will help change this but meanwhile you are absolutely right that it won’t happen if the male doesn’t ask for it. In some ways waiting for the male to ask may not be all bad because getting to that place means one is ready to be accountability and accept responsibility for one’s behavior. The drawback to that is there are many males (most) who find asking very hard and in those cases a firm, loving but assertive wife can get him over that hump. Given the apparently large number of males who are interested in or open to feminine discipline, a lot of wives would probably be surprised how easy it would be to bring discipline into the relationship
Alan
Dan,
DeleteYes that delayed response has mislead me more than once. I think women are more interested often in administering a spanking than talking about it.
Liz, regarding what you said about your daughters, I suppose one thing you can do is normalise the practice with them, so that they feel more empowered to ask their future husbands to receive spankings. Maybe one can also show the benefits for the family and them (the husband on the receiving end), so that they can sell the idea from the perspective of WIIFM (what's in it for me?).
DeleteThis might mean say having a strict policy of every time your husband has been spanked for an offence, that is the end of the matter, so that your daughters see that greater harmony is in the house and they know why. In other words, they see that the advantage to you is that you are able to deal with offences and the advantage to their father is that you don't hassle him for things that have already been dealt with and he therefore has a happier time at home.
DeleteAlan, I think there is also a general expectation among many areas of relationships where the husband is expected to take the initiative, e.g. in courtship. Even today, not many women want to do the approaching. Probably it is the same with DD?
I am raising my girls to be very assertive in their dating relationships. It's for their protection. I do think it would be good for them to know that spanking may be an option with their husbands. But I definitely don't want them doing it with their boyfriends, as it would most likely end in sex. So it's all about timing, I guess. I think I will wait until they are A. engaged, and B., sexually active.
DeleteLiz
Liz, that's a good way of doing things. For my wife and me, it helped that everything was integrated and it started all together on the wedding night (sex, spanking and so on), with nothing happening before then. Many men might chicken out and run away from
Deletea lady after a first spanking if it is a transient relationship, whereas if he has already been obligated to go down the aisle, he has accepted that he needs to commit to the whole package.
Agreed with your implied point about it being hard to separate spanking and sex: nothing wrong with this. Having the spanking before sex is a good reminder to me that I need to earn my entry into the marital bed and be a loving husband to her. We wanted to start it straight away from the wedding night, lest I become complacent about my access to the marital bed. As alluded to earlier, the advantage to me is that all offences are dealt with by the spanking and then we start from a clean sheet.
That must be a pun: you start from a clean sheet ... in the marital bed.
DeleteIndeed Belle. In spite of the pun, this is a good way for selling it to husbands.
DeleteAlan wrote: >It has left me feeling there are many women who have the predisposition to be natural disciplinarians when they find themselves in a situation that triggers that instinct.<
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely! I believe that to very true of my own wife. Even though she appeared to be as plain vanilla as they get for many years before, she immediately and enthusiastically embraced the role of a disciplinary wife after that first "chance" spanking. And - I have read of many similar accounts in the forums over the years as well.
I hope to have a moment to post my response to this topic later tonight or tomorrow morning.
--al
al,
DeleteLook forward to your post.I still think your wife and mine are long lost sisters.
Alan
This is Arthur.
ReplyDeleteI have related some of the story of the beginning of our DD, but not in full detail. I will do so now, relating the quotes as best I can. Liz helped me with this. It will be in two parts.
I have a problem with arrogance, including what was a very sarcastic attitude toward my teenage children when they acted like typical teenagers. I was especially harsh with my son one night, and I could tell that Liz did not like it, as she did not speak to me the rest of that night or the next morning as I got ready for work. A couple hours later she called me and said, "I am at my mother's and the kids will be here after school and we aren't planning to come home anytime soon." Then she hung up. I tried to call her back, but she did not answer.
I was shocked. I never thought she would up and leave. I figured she needed a day to cool off. The next day I tried to call after work. No response. I was feeling desperate and physically ill that I was losing my family. I also was overwhelmed with guilt.
The next day after work I went to her mother's house. Her mother answered the door, only opening it partway and standing in the doorway so I could not enter without causing a scene.
"She doesn't want to see you," her mother said.
"What can I do to fix it?" I asked her mother.
"I don't know if you can," her mother said. "She is not going to let you keep treating the children that way."
I didn't say anything. I was overwhelmed with guilt and near tears.
"You're not going to get me to feel sorry for you," her mother said. "What you need is a good thrashing."
With that, she closed the door.
see part 2
I went home and did some deep thinking about my attitude. It was harming my chances for promotion at work. It was destroying my family. I needed to change immediately, but I didn't know how. I also felt I need to pay for the way I had been treating my children. My mother-in-law's words came back to me. "You need a good thrashing." I knew that Liz and her brothers had been spanked a lot as kids. Liz and I also spanked our kids, though she more than me. So I knew that physical punishment was not foreign to her. I wanted to get through this and do so quickly. I thought my mother-in-law had a good point and maybe a good suggestion that wouldn't be too foreign to Liz.
ReplyDeleteI called my mother-in-law rather than my wife. I told her I had a plan to fix my behavior. I asked her to ask Liz to meet me at the house the next night. Without the kids. My mother-in-law said she would let me know. She called back later than night and said OK.
The next day was Saturday. I spent the whole day thinking about how to present this to my wife, nervous about how she would respond, and nervous about her saying no to paddling me ... or to saying yes. I didn't think she would do anything the least bit sexual with me that night, so I would suggest that my clothes stay on for punishment. I didn't want it to sexual anyway. This is not a kink for me as it is for most husbands on here. It's pure pain for behavior improvement.
Liz arrived with a very stern attitude. No greeting, no smiling, no small talk. I told her what her mother suggested and that I thought it was a good idea. I needed to pay for what I had done. I wanted to reduce my arrogance both at home and at work. I suggested that she punish me hard, bent over the desk with my pants up. I told her that she could use my belt and hit as hard and long as she wanted.
She stared at me. Then she said, "You think one spanking is going to fix what you have been doing for years?"
"No!" I replied. "You can do it as often as you think I need it going forward."
I had not thought about an ongoing DD relationship at all. I just blurted it out because I was desperate. Liz thought a while longer. Then she told me something I had not heard before, that during her childhood her parents occasionally spanked each other behind closed doors. I was surprised by this but just said "oh." I could tell she was thinking about it. Then she asked me a bunch of questions. She would get to decide when I deserved it? Agreed. I would not refuse to be punished? Agreed. I would not complain that it was too hard? Agreed. I would not object when she would verbally call me out in front of the kids when I acted arrogant? She said she was done being passive about my arrogance, that she had made a mistake to not confront me in front of the children. I agreed.
see part 3
part 3
ReplyDeleteShe thought some more. Then she said, "I don't know how to use a belt. Go up in the attic and find my old sorority paddle." I went without a word. I was shaking. I was nervous about the spanking to come, but also nervous about whether it would work, and help us get back together. It took me a long while to find her paddle, which I had not even remembered existed.
I brought it to her. She pointed it at the desk. She started paddling me quite hard. I have no idea how many times, but it was hard to take. After what seemed like forever, she dropped the paddle on the floor and stalked out the door without a word. I stood up and just stood there. I heard her car start up.
I was in total confusion. Did it work? Would I get my family back? Should I call her? Should I wait? I remember picking up the paddle and walking through the house, as if I would find her in one of the rooms. I felt hopeful but scared. If this didn't work, I did not know what else to do.
About two hours later, her mother called. She said, "Liz says you can meet them at church tomorrow." She hung up. I had no idea what this meant. But I was hoping. I met them at church and we sat together. Liz was cordial. The kids were happy to see me. After church, Liz handed me the keys to her minivan and said, "Take us out to breakfast." I did and afterwards we came by the church to get my truck, and we all drove home. We have practiced DD ever sense within parameters that keep her comfortable.
To answer the last two questions: I don't know how else I could have approached her. I think I was very fortunate that there was a lot of spanking in her family, and that her mother put the suggestion in my head. Those two things gave me the courage to approach her.
What would I tell other men in approaching their wives? Just be honest. Maybe try to focus on how it would help your marriage, and the possible benefits to her, not just about your desires (if it is a desire).
Art
Liz's additions.
DeleteArt's description is pretty good. I don't think to this day he realizes how angry I was and how close I was to ending the marriage. I could no longer let my children be treated so disrespectfully. The mama bear came out! But at the same time I desperately wanted to be together. I love him and he is the father of my children.
I don't want to be his mother, nor do I want DD to be a constant part of our lives. That is why I have restricted it to once a week (with rare exceptions), pants up, and not over the knee. I also had him make me a paddle. For some reason I did not like using my sorority paddle on him, as it's a girl paddle with girl memories of my college years.
There is no question that DD has been good for Art, as he is much better at home and some better at work.
I do think my past history with spanking, and the fact that I was aware of adult physical punishment, was helpful. I wasn't shocked by his suggestion, but I wasn't sure at all that it would really work. My experience with spanking was more about specific behaviors, not what seems like a personality trait. I don't think his arrogance will ever go away, but we are keeping it in check. The kids have definitely noticed that our short separation led to dramatic improvement in his attitude toward them. They actually have thanked me for leaving for those few days, and they feel it shocked him into changing, and I agree with that. They don't know that DD is part of it, at least I think they don't know.
I don't think DD saved our marriage, though Art seems to think so. I think it was his willingness to change, and the Monday morning paddlings (and for a while we did Thursdays too) are just a reminder for him to behave that week. For me it's no big deal, and I don't think about it much until it is Monday morning and he brings me the paddle before he leaves for work. It was so commonplace to me growing up that I don't worry that it's weird or anything like that. I often pick up the dry cleaning on Mondays too, and those are two things that are part of my weekly schedule of things I do for my family.
As far as how wishful husbands should approach their wives? It really depends on your marriage and on both of your past experiences with spanking. Maybe if someone presented their specific circumstances here, we could all give you some advice.
Liz
Art, thanks so much for sharing this. So much of it resonates with me, particularly this: "I went home and did some deep thinking about my attitude. It was harming my chances for promotion at work. It was destroying my family. I needed to change immediately, but I didn't know how." While my situation was not as dramatic as yours, I definitely was aware that my chronic attitude issues were creating big problems at home and at work. I tend to think things do happen for a reason, and they happen at times that make sense. I don't really feel like it is an accident that at the time I was getting really fed up with myself and with my self-sabotage and the impact my attitude was having on my relationships, seemingly out of the blue the concept of DD dropped out of the sky when I'd never heard about it before.
Delete"I spent the whole day thinking about how to present this to my wife, nervous about how she would respond, and nervous about her saying no to paddling me ... or to saying yes." Wow, do I ever remember the two or three days after I discovered the DWC and was agonizing about asking my wife, then the day after I told her about it and was waiting on her reaction.
Liz: "I often pick up the dry cleaning on Mondays too, and those are two things that are part of my weekly schedule of things I do for my family." There is something I really, really like about that.
DeleteI don't know if I believe coincidences happen for a reason. I know that in my case there were no coincidences. My wife left intentionally. My mother-in-law told me I needed to be thrashed intentionally. And I asked my wife to start spanking me intentionally. And she chose to do so intentionally. So in our case we didn't have to rely on coincidences or luck.
DeleteDan, Liz says to tell you that you like her dry cleaning statement because you want your DD to be matter-of-fact and inevitable, which is implied by her statement and in our case really is both of those things. She sometimes does some scolding while she is paddling me, but it is in very businesslike tone. And Monday morning paddlings are inevitable as soon as the kids get on the school bus. I really like it that way. Unemotional. Inevitable. All business. Sometimes not even a word spoken. I hand her the paddle, bend over the desk, she does her thing, I stand up, kiss her on the cheek as a thank you, and leave for work. I sometimes wish she would handle things more in the moment (as long as the kids aren't around). I think it would help my arrogance to have immediate punishment. But I am definitely not complaining.
Art
Liz, I understand the part about not wanting it to be a "motherly" figure thing. It is for the same reason that in my situation, I don't use positions intended to "infantilise" me. We have a small middle ground regarding what you said about clothing, also to avoid "infantilising" me. I don't have my lower garments right the way down. Rather, I lower my lower garments only as far as is necessary to expose my buttocks (the front stays up): is there a name for this in the DD community?
DeleteArt, I think the part about a kiss afterwards is a good thing, as it reduces the temptation for a husband to be resentful and I agree with the implied point about a higher frequency being more desirable.
How about BBCC: Bare Bottom, Covered Cock
Deletehaha
BBC is a common abbreviation for "Big Black Cock" in the Hotwife and Cuckold kinks - so it might create some confusion. lol.....
DeleteArt, I agree that "matter-of-fact" is attractive to me.
DeleteI've got it. The term should be the "dropseat," as in the pj's that have a flap in the back but leave the front modestly covered. So if your wife puts you over her knee and yanks down the back of your underwear but leaves the front up, she has dropseated you.
DeleteDanielle here:
ReplyDeleteI was tempted to let my husband come here to answer these questions himself, but I decided against it. I consider this to be MY place to talk about FLR, so he is not allowed to participate. I don’t even allow him to lurk here because I don’t want him to be reading over my shoulder. (I don’t know whether he ever cheats and breaks that rule, but I don’t think he does because he’s bad at lying when asked a direct question). So I am going to answer the questions from my perspective.
How did my husband approach me?
He wrote me a letter telling me he wanted me to spank him. He was too embarrassed to ask me face to face. I seem to recall he referred me to the DWC website to see what he was talking about. He was proposing something like DD at that time, not FLR.
How did I react?
To my shame, I shot him down because I had a gut feeling that spanking was the visible part of a kinky iceberg, and that scared me. I wasn't wrong about the kink, but I now feel foolish to have been scared of it. Also, our sons were still young, and the idea of disciplining my husband like another child didn't appeal to me. Unfortunately, Wayne was deeply immersed in online spanking sites by the time he approached me, so when I rejected his overture, he threw himself his fantasy world with a vengeance. Consequently, our marriage deteriorated. He would stay up late indulging in spanking porn, leaving me feeling lonely and neglected. Our sex life dried up completely. Finally, when I couldn't stand it anymore, I told him that we were headed towards divorce.
Wayne then wrote me a second letter. He expressed feelings of remorse and shame. He told me he didn't want to lose me and said he would try to end his online obsession with spanking, but he admitted it was like an addiction he had trouble controlling. Then he proposed that I give FLR a try, suggesting that I might be able to help him break his addiction by imposing rules on him. I figured I had nothing to lose, but I told him that if he wanted me to be the boss, I would be the boss for real. He agreed.
Did the DD start right away or was there a process leading to it?
I didn't wait long to spank him, but I didn't rush it either. I promised him that spanking would be part of FLR, but I put his stated desire for FLR to the test in other ways first. I wanted to make sure that promising to submit to me wasn't just a ploy to manipulate me into serving his spanking kink. I was pleasantly surprised to see that being bossy with him about things like making him do more housework, restricting his computer time, and making him come to bed when I went to bed turned him on. That rekindled our sex life. When I spanked him about a week into our FLR, I was surprised at how much satisfaction it gave me. I felt that he deserved it for having put our marriage at risk. I felt that what we were doing was kinky, but I was no longer afraid of that. Oh, I also told Wayne that he would have to submit to non-spanking forms of discipline too, forms that wouldn’t just cater to his spanking kink. I was surprised to discover that he responded sexually to all forms of discipline. I see spanking as essential to our FLR, but I now know that he is turned on by all forms of power exchange.
Continued in part 2
Danielle here (continued from above):
DeleteLooking back, would I have handled things differently?
Hell, yes! I shouldn't have been such a prude when he initially approached me. I know now he did it in writing because he was embarrassed and felt too vulnerable to do it face to face. When I shot him down, that must have humiliated him in a bad way.
What advice would I give to others?
To women I would say to try to be more open minded than I was. If kink really isn't your thing, maybe you have to face being sexually incompatible. But thinking you can make your husband's kink go away by making him hide it from you could be a recipe for disaster. If you have an open mind, you may discover that you are a little kinky yourself. I did. Hopefully, with all the resources available to learn about sexual diversity nowadays, young people should have greater self-knowledge and should be better equipped to talk about sexual preferences before getting married.
"To women I would say to try to be more open minded than I was. If kink really isn't your thing, maybe you have to face being sexually incompatible. But thinking you can make your husband's kink go away by making him hide it from you could be a recipe for disaster. If you have an open mind, you may discover that you are a little kinky yourself. I did." That seems like really wise advice, coming with the benefit of some hard experience backing it up. It certainly is interesting that you started as one of the most kink-resistant of the commenters here, and ended up as one of the kinkiest in terms of the things you've explored and have been willing to share
DeleteDan wrote: >>>I approached Anne a few days after I discovered The Disciplinary Wives Club website and became a little obsessed. I was very embarrassed about it and had no idea how she would react. I think because I was so embarrassed, I talked to her about it when we were in bed, with the lights off so she couldn’t see my face. I broached it by telling her that I’d found this “interesting” website. I told her in general what it was about.<<<
ReplyDeleteDan, if you don’t my asking, why were you so embarrassed that you had to approach Anne about it with the lights off. That’s a bit like Wayne who wrote to me about it because he was too embarrassed simply to talk to me. I think with my husband it was because he was revealing a sexual need he found embarrassing. But you and Anne had already played with erotic spanking. Were you embarrassed about your desire to be spanked or about telling Anne that you felt like you needed someone to “make you behave”?
Danielle
Danielle, to me spanking has always been qualitatively different than discipline in terms of the embarrassment involved. Honestly, I don't really care about anyone knowing about the spanking. It is kinky, but lot's of people have kink in their lives. I think for most people it, it just isn't a big deal. The disciplinary piece definitely is much more embarrassing to me and way more of an ego threat, though I don't know that I can really explain why. Asking for a big change in the power structure just felt very momentous and fundamental. I had always been the aggressive, Type-A, masculine force in the relationship, and here I was suggesting that I wanted her to take control of me and discipline me whenever and however she felt like it. Something about that was both fascinating and terrifying. Also, it was "real," while our erotic spankings were really just foreplay.
DeleteDanielle - the fear of appearing weak, "unmanly", "un-masculine" is undoubtedly the single biggest barrier that husbands face in telling their wives of their interest in being a disciplined husband. This was most certainly true in my case, and in many, many other accounts that I have read through the years on spanking forums.
DeleteLike Dan, in general I would not be overly concerned with most people discovering that my wife and I were into spanking play - lots of people are into spanking - or at least understanding of it - these days, especially after "Shades of Gray". However, I definitely would NOT want people to know that I was a spanked husband - that would be hugely embarrassing because of the social stigma involved. (With rare exceptions - my wife's sister knows, and one close female friend who is very open minded - poly, pan, bdsm switch. And possibly a couple of my wife's friends who suspect). --al
I’ll add my case to support this. My wife is into several kinks, so it’s not about any shame of being kinky. I introduced spanking to her before we were married, but it was just sexual foreplay. It was our first shared kink, and it opened her up to sharing her fantasies, most of which involve her in a submissive role. We eventually played with discipline, me spanking her, because that’s really my fetish - spanking as punishment. She fit into that nicely. She’s not submissive outside the bedroom, but submission is comfortable for many women, enhancing the feeling of femininity and any attraction to alpha male type behavior. I’m not the macho or alpha type, which my wife likes, and I think she enjoys me playing the dominant role as a contrast… and it’s also the only condition under which she would trust a guy to be in a position of control like this.
DeleteWith spanking, where all the embarrassment and reluctance lies is in the shame of being punished. I imagine this might also be true on some level for a woman but, for a male, you can add the fact that to be spanked is not an attractive position. This should be fairly obvious to anyone who has grown up in our culture but, as some familiar evidence, think of all the times you’ve seen a female character spanked on screen. Wasn’t she portrayed as sexy? Or the leading man spanking her? Compare that to males in the receiving position, if you can think of any. Maybe as a joke? So, of course, it was difficult to talk to my wife about this side of spanking, and the fact that it doesn’t appeal to her is all I ever needed to know to steer clear.
Like Danielle’s husband, my outlet became online entertainment but, fortunately, that’s been no threat to my marriage. When Danielle talks about FLR, I see that it’s possible for a wife to overcome her antipathy to the kinky part in order to assume the needed practical authority, and then end up embracing the kink in ways beyond any expectations. My wife has always been fine with the kink; it’s the real discipline that goes against her nature.
Danielle here:
DeleteDan wrote: >>>The disciplinary piece definitely is much more embarrassing to me and way more of an ego threat, though I don't know that I can really explain why. Asking for a big change in the power structure just felt very momentous and fundamental. I had always been the aggressive, Type-A, masculine force in the relationship, and here I was suggesting that I wanted her to take control of me and discipline me whenever and however she felt like it. Something about that was both fascinating and terrifying. Also, it was "real," while our erotic spankings were really just foreplay.<<<
I think I get it, Dan. If I imagine myself as a spanked wife, I guess I wouldn’t be embarrassed about erotic spanking as a form of foreplay. But I would find it demeaning and humiliating to be spanked like a child for things like overspending or not doing my domestic duties to my husband’s satisfaction or talking back to him. When I think about it that way, I feel a bit hypocritical for treating my husband in a manner I could never accept myself. But then, he isn’t me. But I can understand why a man would feel embarrassed about wanting to be under his wife's thumb.
Al wrote: >>>Danielle - the fear of appearing weak, "unmanly", "un-masculine" is undoubtedly the single biggest barrier that husbands face in telling their wives of their interest in being a disciplined husband. This was most certainly true in my case, and in many, many other accounts that I have read through the years on spanking forums. <<<
Al, I think that is a legitimate fear. I think my initial rejection of my husband's request for DD was based on a feeling that it was unmanly for a grown man to be spanked like a little boy. I was a little afraid that I would no longer find him sexually attractive if I did that. I also wanted to see him as an appropriately masculine role model for our sons, and I feared that spanking him would undermine his role as a father. I no longer see things that way, but I believe many women do. Or maybe not nowadays? I suppose I was a product of my time. Maybe younger women see things differently.
Brett wrote: >>>With spanking, where all the embarrassment and reluctance lies is in the shame of being punished. I imagine this might also be true on some level for a woman but, for a male, you can add the fact that to be spanked is not an attractive position. This should be fairly obvious to anyone who has grown up in our culture but, as some familiar evidence, think of all the times you’ve seen a female character spanked on screen. Wasn’t she portrayed as sexy? Or the leading man spanking her? Compare that to males in the receiving position, if you can think of any. Maybe as a joke? <<<
Brett, I think you are right about that. When I was young, I was exposed to pop cultural images of men spanking women, but I can't recall a single example of a woman spanking a man in a TV show, a movie, or a romantic novel. I think that ties back to Al's point about it seeming unmanly for a man to be spanked. My own feelings about it are complicated. Although I consciously reject patriarchy, I see my domination of my husband as a sort of gender role reversal, which means I am still seeing gender through a patriarchal lens to some extent. And I must confess that once I got comfortable spanking him, I started to enjoy treating him like a 1950's housewife. For example, I like seeing him in an apron, and I get a kick out of making him wear really feminine aprons. I even have perverse desire to get him to wear a feminine apron sometime when we have company. But I have discovered that doesn’t mean I can't see him as simultaneously masculine.
"I think I get it, Dan. If I imagine myself as a spanked wife, I guess I wouldn’t be embarrassed about erotic spanking as a form of foreplay. But I would find it demeaning and humiliating to be spanked like a child for things like overspending or not doing my domestic duties to my husband’s satisfaction or talking back to him."
DeleteExactly. Though, I don't think you need to feel hypocritical about it, because I think what leads to the reluctance for others to know is not that we feel degraded or humiliated by being spanked but, rather, that we know others will see it that way. And, for each person it's a complicated mix. You obviously should not feel hypocritical about humiliating Wayne, given that Wayne gets off on humiliation. For me, being controlled and the embarrassment inherent in being bossed around is part of the attraction, but I think it is much more mild than what Wayne seems to enjoy.
Danielle said: >>>Al, I think that is a legitimate fear. I think my initial rejection of my husband's request for DD was based on a feeling that it was unmanly for a grown man to be spanked like a little boy. I was a little afraid that I would no longer find him sexually attractive if I did that. I also wanted to see him as an appropriately masculine role model for our sons, and I feared that spanking him would undermine his role as a father. I no longer see things that way, but I believe many women do. Or maybe not nowadays? I suppose I was a product of my time. Maybe younger women see things differently.<<<
DeleteResponding to all the comments on masculinity, my wife and I never saw DD as her taking away my masculinity. In today's world, we all too often take the view that anything masculine is toxic. However, my wife has realised that she wouldn't want me to be feminine. Rather, we see DD as removing the dross of the stereotypical bad side of masculinity and refining the gold of the good parts of masculinity. She wants me to be less selfish and more focused on traditional masculinity and chivalry, being focused on her needs.
She does DD with a focus on building up, not tearing down. She doesn't want me to look a wuss in front of children. Rather, she wants to reduce the bad side of me that is making me less than I could be in this respect. While delivering a spanking, she tells me about not just the things I am doing that she dislikes, but also the underlying aspects of my character. I have no doubt that it works.
My wife recognises that spanking is simply going to be kinky, no matter how much we kid ourselves that it is just about the discipline element or try and suppress such feelings. We have chosen not just to accept that side of things, but embrace it. Yes, it is painful when my wife spanks me, but I don't believe it would have the same effect if not. A side advantage to me is foreplay doesn't appeal and DD with spanking replaces it very well. Going off topic, but anyway.
This fear of appearing unmanly issue rankles me a bit. If this is a legitimate fear, then I'd say you're with the wrong person. There are a helluva lot of people in the world...nearly 8 billion....and they hold a wide variety of opinions. There are people into everything, nothing, select things, whatever. The trick is to align yourself with the people best suited to bring out your best and make you feel good about yourself. A gay male should probably not seek friendships with homophobes. Progressive women should probably not befriend misogynists. Black people should probably avoid close contact with White Supremacists. And.......kinky people should probably gravitate to more unconventional and free-thinking people as well.
DeleteAlso....what about personal pride? If I engaged in something that others felt was indicative of some flaw in me, BELIEVE ME, they'd get an earful of THEIR flaws in return. How would a woman who considered some choice in a guy "unmanly" feel if some important choice of hers opened her up to accusations of being "unwomanly"? Maybe like having a career? Or cutting her hair short? Does anyone really want to go about life living up to some archaic stereotype?
If you are in fear of someone's opinion over something that is not in and of itself bad, (like murdering someone or raping a child) you are hanging with the wrong person. The world is big and heavily-populated. Find someone compatible.
I don't disagree with your main point re: not letting others' opinions hold you back, but re: choosing to be with someone more compatible, I think you are assuming that people know who they are and what they want at the outset of a relationship and that those interests stay stable over time. If you didn't even know about something like DD at the time you got involved with the person who became your spouse, then it would be kind of hard to plan for that and choose life mates accordingly. I've seen many, many examples of two people who seemed pretty compatible when they first got together, but then one changed radically at some point. In my case, DD and similar kinds of kink just was not on my radar or hers when we both got together, and I got fairly lucky that once it did become a thing for me, she was flexible and open to exploring.
DeleteI do agree with you totally that when it comes to other people's opinions, pointing out their own "flaws" is both beneficial and amusing. I never tire of point out a hypocrite's hypocrisy and dumb-ass assumptions, thought I can't say that doing so has had much impact on those people.
I don’t know that anyone here is suggesting that it’s unmanly to be spanked or in a submissive role within a DD relationship. Or that it’s not feminine to be the HOH or authority figure for your husband. Does any guy here not know that we have every right to be who we are and, if anyone doesn’t like it, they can go %^&* themselves? :)
DeleteIt would have made it so simple to be completely free from the expectations and social pressures under which I was raised, and to simply reject all concerns of what a potential partner might think is “normal” or attractive. And then to be free of what I was taught I should be. When I was in my 20’s, I lacked the confidence to expose my desires. That wasn’t my future wife’s fault. It wasn’t her judgment holding me back. Even though it’s not her thing, I had no doubt she would accept this part of me. It was how I felt about myself, what I was conditioned to see as attractive and not wanting to be different. A big part of my fetish is the humiliation felt, and part of that is the feeling of being the male in what I was raised to see as a feminine role. How nice that some people can be completely rational about it. I can’t think away these feelings of embarrassment and, I’m not sure if I could, my attraction to DD or FLR wouldn’t also disappear.
Danielle: “When I think about it that way, I feel a bit hypocritical for treating my husband in a manner I could never accept myself.”
I believe that if you are drawn into this by your partner in order to satisfy his desires, you should feel no obligation to treat him as you wish to be treated. That must be a feature of every Dom/sub kind of relationship - the idea is being treated in opposite ways in order to both be happy.
Danielle: “I was a little afraid that I would no longer find him sexually attractive if I did that.”
That’s the real fear on both sides for many of us conditioned to feel this way. It’s not a form of bigotry or critical judgment of a person’s character. We don’t choose what attracts us sexually, and you would have had every right not to be attracted to your husband in this role. Fortunately for him, and ultimately for both of you, you not only benefit from your position of authority, you enjoy the feminization aspects and without sacrificing your vision of him as a man.
Brett, you said: "A big part of my fetish is the humiliation felt, and part of that is the feeling of being the male in what I was raised to see as a feminine role. How nice that some people can be completely rational about it. I can’t think away these feelings of embarrassment and, I’m not sure if I could, my attraction to DD or FLR wouldn’t also disappear."
DeleteYour concern about the attraction to DD ending if the embarrassment ended is somewhat related to my statement to Al about not wanting DD to become very popular. I do suspect if it were more accepted, more mainstream, less taboo, then it wouldn't have the mystique for me that it does.
I also recognize that my desire for DD stems from a state that is not particularly balanced or well-adjusted. Whether it is a function of being too self-critical or of feeling insecure without imposed boundaries because of a lack of parentally-imposed boundaries growing up, I totally get that on some level my DD springs from some disordered thoughts or emotions. Maybe the best outcome would be for me to get at the root cause of the need to be accountable, but I do think I would miss the emotional charge associated with being held accountable even if the need itself may not be particularly healthy.
Dan: You said: "If you didn't even know about something like DD at the time you got involved with the person who became your spouse, then it would be kind of hard to plan for that and choose life mates accordingly"
DeleteThat's true about the DD itself, but I was commenting on having fear that a spouse would think a certain negative way based on some revelation. While a spouse might react with a "I get it, but that's not for me" it's another thing to add "and what kind of man are you to even suggest it?" To me that's not someone I would want to be with.....or in fear of. If revealing DD elicits fear of being considered "less than", then what about something else? Express an interest in a hobby normally associated with women and have the same fear? Those stereotype-oriented judgmental people are out there. The trick is recognizing it and not marrying them. (easier said than done though)
Brett: I get the conditioning thing. I have it too. It's a matter of overcoming it in yourself and refusing to tolerate it in anyone we choose to have close to us. We may be stuck with family and co-workers, but WE choose our friends and our spouses. (And I don't tolerate it too well with family either.)
DeleteAlso DD was the main focus here, but I am looking at the "manly" issue in a much broader sense. That's why it's a trigger for me. I have quite a few interests that some would see as unmanly besides DD. That's why I seek out more enlightened people to associate with.
KD, I hope you don't think I meant to say that it IS unmanly for a man to be spanked or even that a man should BE manly in some stereotypical way. I only meant that I once felt that way. I'm not proud of that fact, but that's the way I once was, so I can't blame men for being worried that some women might feel that way. And if by having interests besides DD that some might see as unmanly, you mean being more interested in art and literature than in sports, for example, I don't think many women would have a problem with that.
DeleteDanielle
Danielle: It's good that people can evolve.
DeleteThere are a couple of issues here, to be honest. One is what a partner, friend, etc. WOULD think is "unmanly", and what a person might be conditioned to expect in a reaction. The world is a rough place, so I get both perspectives. I too have held certain 'fears' when about to reveal my proclivities, BUT it honestly was more of a fear of what would happen afterwards than fear over the opinion. In my case, if such a fear was warranted, and the person did indeed react critically and derisively, that would likely mean the end of the relationship rather than the end of the issue.
So my "fear" would not be the opinion itself, but that if that opinion turned out to be the case, I would now have to think differently about someone I once cared about. If they were disappointed in me for confessing my interests, that would only amount to a fraction of the disappointment I'd have in them for deriding them.
(Marc Maron did a great stand-up routine on the regret in finding out someone you liked voted for Trump. It was hysterical in its honesty about how it feels. This is kind of the same thing. ;-) )
Dan: “Your concern about the attraction to DD ending if the embarrassment ended is somewhat related to my statement to Al about not wanting DD to become very popular. I do suspect if it were more accepted, more mainstream, less taboo, then it wouldn't have the mystique for me that it does.”
DeleteThis is how I’ve always felt about the spanking kink in general. It’s common amongst spankos to sound like they’re on a campaign to champion their cause. They feel it should be easy to find a partner and blame society for stifling this natural desire. Spanking should be accepted by the mainstream, and they celebrate every example that the world is finally waking up to it - like that 50 Shades thing.
I have no desire to make spanking more common. What has attracted me to it since I was an adolescent is that it wasn’t a universally accepted punishment, and for me it was a secret to be kept behind closed doors, but maybe someone peeks in the window and sees something they shouldn’t be seeing. This also applies to adult DD as a lifestyle, where the idea of equality or traditional gender roles can be turned on its head. If it loses that, for me it loses its dark charm.
KD: “I get the conditioning thing. I have it too. It's a matter of overcoming it in yourself and refusing to tolerate it in anyone we choose to have close to us.”
I’ve never been able to overcome the feelings of embarrassment or humiliation but, as I said above, that’s the kink for me. I’m not into physical suffering in-and-of-itself, so it’s the emotion that really makes punishment feel so punishing. There’s the shame of having failed in some way, but tap into that conditioning and it’s another level entirely. I’m not in a position where I have to justify these desires to anyone. I know who I am and accept this part of me. If I was in a publicly viewed DD or FLR relationship then, like you, I might have to steer clear of any bigotry.
Brett, I don’t really care if DD grows as a trend although I believe it has grown particularly since the internet became a pervasive influence. But I also don’t care if it’s an unusual somewhat unique practice. What spanking does for me includes a bevy of emotional, psychological, behavioral and interpersonal benefits that I would want if I was the only spanko in the world. I really don’t get the appeal to its relative rarity if indeed it is relatively rare. Maybe that a topic worth considering or maybe I am an outlier on this but being attracted to spanking because it makes me a member of an exclusive group (if it does) just doesn’t resonate
DeleteAlan
Alan, I wouldn’t describe the appeal for me as being a member of anything. I don't think of spanking as a category or a social activity we identify with like a golf club or the VFW. And I’m not interested in the idea of a spanking “community” as so many love, getting together and playing spanking games and such. The size of such a community doesn’t concern me. The reason size matters here is about how spanking is viewed by others, which is dependent on a mainstream society’s general perception of it. One of the ingredients that fuels my kink is how it looks, and how that look makes it feel. If it’s common practice that husbands are spanked or otherwise disciplined by their wives, then it’s seen as common. A questionable analogy might be comparing a rare coin to the change in our pocket. The latter isn’t much to look at.
DeleteBrett,
DeleteThanks. I think I understand what you are saying: "One of the ingredients that fuels my kink is how it looks, and how that look makes it feel. If it’s common practice that husbands are spanked or otherwise disciplined by their wives, then it’s seen as common." I guess I just don't care much about that aspect of spanking. I am interested in the sociology of it, the why's, hows, and wherefores - but not so much the whats
Alan
Alan, it sounds like we share some interests anyway. I’m into the sociology of it too, and the wheels of justice in motion. Everything about the surrounding circumstances is relevant. The accountability. The behavior modification. Intimacy, emotion, psychology. However, the underlying fetish is the powerful driving force, and it involves many urges that are hard to relate to for those who don’t share the feelings.
Delete(al here) Part 1 - Background
ReplyDeleteMy story is posted under the "User Stories" tab - in the "User Stories Volume One" section, but I will recap it here to contribute to the discussion.
First, just a little background to set the stage - I believe that my interest in F/M disciplinary spanking began when my paternal aunt (Dad's younger and attractive sister) gave me a sound over the knee hairbrushing when I spent a couple of weeks with her one summer at the age of ten (not bare bottom - she made me drop my jeans, but did not have me pull down my underwear).
At the time, my only reaction was to make sure that I behaved myself for the rest of my visit (I was seldom spanked at home, and never anything like the spanking that she delivered, which quickly had me bawling like a four year old). A couple of years later, however, as I entered puberty, that experience morphed into a sexual fantasy.
So, when at the age of 19, and I was having a fling with a very experienced 30 year old, I did not hesitate to comply when she pulled out a paddle from her toy bag and ordered me over her lap. While nothing like a true DWC paddling, she probably gave me 50 or so whacks that stung enough to be somewhat uncomfortable. This obviously reinforced my F/M spanking fantasy life - but I would never have dreamed of approaching anyone with these thoughts, especially my wife, whom I married a couple of years after that experience. (She was actually more a bottom, but wanted to demonstrate how to spank. So, while that was my only spanking, I did spank her a few times - and while that was certainly enjoyable, what I really wanted was for her to spank me again, but I was too shy to ask).
When the Internet became available to the public, I quickly discovered the spanking discussion groups on the Usenet (the platform for discussion groups back in the day) and the early spanking web sites - most importantly Aunt Kay's DWC web site. I devoured F/M spanking stories and discussions, and even wrote a few stories myself well before I became a DWC husband. But really, I never even remotely expected to actually become a disciplined husband. My wife, Susan, just seemed completely vanilla and had not responded at all to the few subtle hints that I had dropped about spanking - which made approaching her just seem unthinkable.
Then - things changed.
(al here) Part 2
ReplyDeleteHow did I approach her?
I actually never had any intention of approaching Susan about the possibility of spanking, much less a DWC marriage. Since the few subtle hints that I had made were just completely ignored, I believed that it was probably pointless, and that I would run the risk of appearing unmanly or even "perverted" by just asking.
However, twenty years into our marriage - one evening when the kids were spending the night elsewhere, we took full advantage and spent some quality time in the bedroom - including enough wine to ease the conversation into a discussion of our sexual fantasies. We each talked about a few of our fantasies, with an MFM threesome at the top of her list. I mentioned a few, then (more than a little high by now) included being spanked, but almost like it was an after thought.
Interestingly and unexpectedly, she immediately seemed intrigued and questioned me about it - so I told her about being spanked by my "older woman lover" when I was 19, and that I had been "mildly" fascinated by that ever since. And then, in one of the Great Surprises of my life, she told me, "You know, I would love to paddle your bare ass - stay right here, I will be right back". Then she reappeared not even a minute later with a ping pong paddle in hand - and over her lap I went. She did not hesitate, yanked down my underwear, and gave me probably 30 or so whacks, all of which stung to some degree, with a few real zingers mixed in. Nothing like a DWC spanking - but certainly much more than I would have ever expected.
So, the initial approach in our case was spontaneous, completely unexpected and unplanned.
How exactly did he broach the topic?
I awoke the next morning kind of feeling like that me being spanked over Susan's lap last night must have been a dream. But I was soon convinced otherwise, because shortly after I returned from the morning trip to the bathroom, Susan emerged from her turn in the bathroom with the pronouncement that I was getting another spanking for leaving the toilet seat up (which I always did, and which she routinely complained about - I don't anymore), took a seat on the bed, picked up the ping pong paddle, and pulled me over her lap. I obviously complied without complaint, and she paddled me yet again - this time closer to 50 whacks and a bit harder than last night - although not overly painful, it was enough that I felt like I had been "really spanked." (She later admitted that she had enjoyed the sense of power that she felt while spanking me - and had realized that by the time she was half way through the first spanking the night before, while watching my bottom flinch in response to the swats, resulting in some zingers toward the end).
A bit later, as we were having breakfast, Susan, with a mischievous grin, told me that maybe this was just our marriage needed - for her to paddle my behind to straighten my ass up when I got out of line.
Susan was half-joking, half wondering if such a thing were even possible, I think. But, after years of fantasizing about being in a DWC marriage, I wasn't going to let this possibility slide by, no matter how unexpected it was. So I told her that we should talk about that - because there were couples that did live a disciplinary wife lifestyle. And that there was even a really good web site about the lifestyle called "The Disciplinary Wives Club"
(al here) Part 3
ReplyDeleteWhat was her initial reaction? How did it go?
Did the DD start immediately, or was it a process before the first spanking?
She was definitely interested. We talked and then she spent most of the morning on the DWC site. We had lunch out and talked it over at length, and agreed to give it a try. So, we talked some more about specifics, then went to the beauty supply house and bought a good wooden hairbrush. She used it on me that afternoon "just to make sure I was serious" - following Aunt Kay's guidance on the DWC site to spank hard and long. There were a hundred whacks that hurt like hell and set my ass on fire - and I learned that day that fantasy and reality were very different things when it came to a real disciplinary spanking. But, although I very much wanted that first spanking to end much sooner than it did, when it was done, I was also absolutely certain that I would get across her lap for more whenever she told me to (and that was quite often in the beginning).
Looking back, would I have approached her any differently?
There is a temptation to say that I should have come to her earlier, given how enthusiastically she embraced the idea when it almost inadvertently presented itself. However, it may be that we were not ready until we were at that point. On the other hand, that first chance spanking - while we were drinking and swapping fantasies - could just as easily have never happened, and we would have completely missed out on all the rewards of this adventure. Who is to say?
(al here) Part 4
ReplyDeleteWhat advice would he give to men who want to ask their wives but aren't sure how?
A warning - be careful what you ask for. A real disciplinary spanking is far different reality than whatever fantasy you may have had. If your wife is confidently applying a bathbrush to your bare rear behind for 50 whacks or more, you almost certainly will want that spanking to be over well before it actually is. (I never get less than a 100 whacks, and I believe that is fairly typical, based on what I have read reported).
And - many wives who may hesitantly and tentatively agree to give it a try very quickly become confidant disciplinary wives - and you may find yourself having to take many long, hard spankings that you have no desire for at that moment. (It really is quite interesting how so many wives who only agree to spank to indulge their husbands soon come to appreciate and enjoy their role as a disciplinary wife - and very quickly gain the confidence to administer true disciplinary spankings, without feeling the least bit sorry for their husbands, despite their obvious pain, yelps, sobs, tears, or well reddened bottoms).
If you really just have no idea how your wife might respond to the concept of being a disciplinary wife, you might consider introducing erotic spanking first, making sure that she gets to be the spanker (in the beginning, you might be experimenting with taking turns as the spanker, but make sure she doesn't assume that spanking means that she is going to be the spankee because she is the woman). She may come to find that she enjoys the sense of power that experiences when being the spanker - this is not unusual at all. If you reach the point where it is clear to both of you that she enjoys the power of spanking you (if only in fantasy), then that can lead to a disciplinary wife discussion.
If you are reasonably sure that she is open minded enough to have the discussion without judging you (whether erotic spankings exist or not), and she shows some interest, suggest that she read through the DWC site, the info on this site (User stories, tips and methods, etc), and any other sites that you believe may be helpful (lots of blogs these days!).
Al, thanks for again putting in a lot of time to go through your DWC history. I recalled that you wrote the "Even More" story on the DWC website, but don't think I realized how closely it paralleled your "real life" start.
DeleteYou said, "It really is quite interesting how so many wives who only agree to spank to indulge their husbands soon come to appreciate and enjoy their role as a disciplinary wife - and very quickly gain the confidence to administer true disciplinary spankings, without feeling the least bit sorry for their husbands, despite their obvious pain, yelps, sobs, tears, or well reddened bottoms."
That last part really is fascinating. While it took my wife a few tries to get what a real disciplinary spanking was, and that it was much harder than she might originally have envisioned, after that she never really showed the slightest hint that she felt sorry for me once the spanking started. Sometimes she has stopped a spanking "early" if my bottom was getting a little too torn up, but she has never showed the slightest concern that a spanking was having the intended effect. Now, after many years of this I still have not cried, so it is a somewhat open question as to how she would react if I did but, honestly, I don't think it would cause her any concern. What makes it so fascinating is in "real life" my wife is a very gentle, loving person. But, in disciplinary mode she doesn't have the slightest concern about doing the job I asked her to do.
Dan - "Even More' actually became somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. Although that initial real life spanking and her consequent enthusiasm was completely unexpected, as soon as that happened, I quickly directed her to the DWC site to "see what it was all about". And I recall suggesting a few sections - Tips & Methods, and a few of the stories and real life accounts - I'm sure "Even More" was one of them (and it was much later in our story that I admitted to her that I was the author of the story). So, although she quickly discovered a genuine enthusiasm for the power of husband-spanking, in a sense telling her how I thought a DWC marriage should look (I've sometimes wondered if I was a bit manipulative - but then, my views really just reflected what I had learned - mostly at the DWC site, and I essentially just shared them with her). Likewise, "Even More" was just a fictionalized idea of what a DWC marriage might look like. --al
DeleteAh, got it. I too was authoring DD content before I told my wife about it. I had this blog for two or three years before I told her about it.
DeleteIn the beginning, I was so concerned that my interest in being spanked would make me appear weak or wimpy to Susan, that I hid the depth of my interest in F/M spanking (never mentioning my participation in forums, authoring stories, visiting F/M web sites, downloading hundreds of F/M spanking pics and drawings) - just saying that the "older woman spanking" when I was 19 sparked a "mild fascination" and that I had done "a little research" and had found the DWC site along the way. After a few years, I was able to come clean - and by that time, she had become very understanding of my need for "maternal" discipline. --al
Deleteal,
DeleteYour experience and my own similar experience is one reason I think there are large numbers of alpha males out there interested in or at least open to disciplinary relationships The perception is (I think) that the average male seeking or in a disciplinary relationship is a passive stereotypically submissive guy who is a doormat in public, probably not achieved much and completely unaggressive. That stereotype is probably one thing that turns off women about a potential disciplinary relationship and certainly holds a lot of men back from being more open. I don’t know how many alpha males may be open to DD with a SO ( no one knows), but my intuition is there are quite a few , but not many who feel free to open up about it precisely because they are alpha males and don’t fit the stereotype.
Alan
We've talked about it before, but I continue to see little--frankly, no--evidence that there is widespread but hidden interest in DD, particularly F/m. This is one of the more popular F/m blogs on the topic, yet on a good day I get about 2000 total views, and it has maintained that level for several years now. That is a tiny, tiny fraction of the US adult population, and our viewership isn't confined to the US. Moreover, of those 2000, I am guessing some very substantial portion are really spanking fetishists and not really into DD. Or, for another data point, take a look at Amazon. There really are only a handful of authors who really focus on domestic discipline at all, and very few who are M/f in orientation. I also think there is a very big difference between saying there are alpha males who are "interested" versus alpha males who are "open" to it. I think if the discussion here proves anything, it is that humans are fairly malleable, and women who have never thought about spanking their husbands or were downright averse to it can come to do it or even get off on it. I don't doubt some men fit into that same category. But, I just see zero evidence that there is some large pool of alpha men out there who secretly want DD but haven't brought it up, or a large volume of couples who are secretly practicing it.
DeleteThose numbers are interesting, Dan - smaller than I would have guessed. I had always suspected there was a "significant" number of men (even if not large) who secretly craved F/M discipline but would never admit it due to the stigma and fear of appearing unmanly - just based on what I saw on the forums over the years. It does seem there were some comments that Aunt Kay made on the DWC site (or it may have been in private correspondence - not sure without checking the site and my email archives - but not today) about there being "a lot" of such closeted men out there. Of course this would have been based on her experience and the amount of emails she received, hits to the DWC site in its heyday, etc - but then obviously that really would have been a very small and biased sample of men.
DeleteOh - and a bit of trivia. I noticed that most folks here and in the kink world in general these days use a small letter to indicate a sub or bottom, the spankee - F/m, for example. But, back in the good old days of the Usenet spanking discussion group - alt.sex.spanking (with the convenient initials of ass - the regular participants called the group community "assville"), small caps indicated a minor and caps an adult. The spanking stories involving minors were required to be nonsexual and they were in the minority but there were some (mostly reflections of dramatized childhood spankings). So a story in which an adult woman spanked an adult man would be labeled F/M - which is why I still use caps on both sides of the paddle to this day. Stories were required to be labeled in the subject line to indicate their main spanking theme. --al
Al, it's possible that there are more out there than I think, but I just don't have any basis at all to believe it. Personally, I am very OK with it being a very small club we have going here. If a kink is shared by large numbers of people, is it even really kink anymore? I kind of like the mystique of being among a small group of people who are doing something that others see as outside the norm. Who the hell wants to be like everyone else?
DeleteThat's really interesting about the lower and upper case designations. I had no idea lower case used to refer to minors.
Dan - I really love your outlook on the mystique!
DeleteRe: case designations - those were the guidelines for the spanking stories shared on the Assville Usenet group - which is where "I grew up", really don't know how many others used it - since minors really would not hopefully be involved in anything beyond stories of childhood spankings. --al
I actually do remember Usenet groups, which I guess does date me a bit.
DeleteThe lower case designation for minors is used at the LSF. I think it's just habit and usage that determine what the case means (minor or submissive) ......like anything with a living language.
Deletekdpierre - "just habit and usage" - nice summation!
DeleteWhat is "LSF"? (I feel like I should know that, but it's not clicking).
The Usenet, which predated the public Internet, is still around, just not used much by the general public for discussion forums anymore.
--al
al: The "LSF" is the "Library of Spanking Fiction" which warehouses thousands of spanking stories (including mine LOL) of every orientation. I think they use that simple case designation to help with that wide variety.
DeleteLSF - on yeah, very familiar with it, although it has been a while since my last visit - the abbreviation just did not click. Senior moment....
DeleteI spoke to Jimmy about this, and we wrote the answers together. He isn't posting here because, much like Danielle, I have decided that this is my forum and not his.
ReplyDeleteHow exactly did he broach the subject? What exactly did he say?
In his offhand, macho way, Jimmy said to me one night while we were arguing, "Well if you are that mad at me, why don't you beat my ass?"
I said, "Yeah, right."
He said, as we both recall, "No, I'm serious. If it would make you feel better, do it."
"Would you start respecting me then?" I asked.
"I guess I'd have to," he said. Or something like that, we don't recall exactly.
How did it go? What was his wife's initial reaction?
I just shook my head. But that very night I started doing internet research. I think I searched for "spanked husbands" or something like that. I had never heard of DD, DWC, D/s. I was aware of BDSM, but only as a sex kink, not for behavior modification. I did not let him know I was looking into it. I quickly wound up at this blog, fortunately. So many of the others were mostly pictures or erotic fiction.
Did the DD start immediately, or was it a process before the first spanking?
Definitely a process. I think it took me months to decide. As some on here may recall, I was worried that Jimmy would turn into a wimp, or even a sissy boy. I was afraid I would fall lout of love with him. It was Dan and Tomy and KD and Alan and ZM and maybe others who convinced me that would not happen, that you could have a disciplinary relationship without the husband becoming a complete submissive. Dan especially, as an alpha male like my husband, encouraged me to proceed.
That first spanking gave me a shocking sense of authority and power. It still shocks me, actually. As I have related, I am 5-2 and 105, Jimmy is 6-2 and 205, so it never ceases to amaze me the way he obeys me and takes his punishment. After a decade of him bossing me around!
And now, looking back on it, would he have approached her any differently?
Jimmy says his initial comment was a half-hearted joke. But it was half real, too. He says h knew he couldn't get me back without giving me some power over him. He says he was lucky that I responded the way I did. If nothing had come of it, he would have had to try something else. He says it would have been better to approach me in all seriousness, but he didn't have the guts to do so.
What advice would he give to men who want to ask their wives but aren't sure how?
Jimmy says to "just go for it." He wears Nikes too, haha. I would say that I would have been much more impressed if he had come to me seriously and said that he knew I needed more power in our relationship and he wanted to discuss how that could happen, and then brought spanking up as one of the ways.
Belle wrote: >That first spanking gave me a shocking sense of authority and power<
ReplyDeleteI've seen this sentiment expressed by disciplinary wives many times on the spanking forums over the years - and it was certainly my own wife's experience when she began spanking me (she shared with me later that she felt that power immediately, even in the two "play spankings" that preceded my first disciplinary spanking).
The discovery of this sense of power and authority must undoubtedly be a large part of the reason that so many wives who are initially doubtful and hesitant about spanking their husbands become very confidant disciplinarians in very short order. --al
That must be something that happens early when it happens. With my former girlfriend it was early and just after she gave me my first really “surprise” spanking (She had come over late at night to settle an issue after I was actually in bed. After she spanked me or maybe during the spanking, she said “Alan, this just seems so natural. It’s so natural”) I think she was a little shocked she was able to come in, wake me, walk me to her “spanking chair” and administer a hard spanking without any resistance. It was after that that she became obsessive (her word) about not challenging her authority. I don’t think either of us realized the extent of her power before that night
DeleteAlan
Here at Chez Good Life the subject was approached as a way to move an impasse to my need for M/F regular (some might call it maintainance) spanking and Mrs GL saying she had a barrier/problem with the power dynamic. I said then "lets have a two way street and you can spank me".
ReplyDeleteHer response was to indicate it was worth a try.
Wouldn't call what we have DD (have indicated that here previously) but what did happen quickly was two way street became 180° one way F/M and that was partly because I found myself head-space quickly as a spankee and she at least accepted the role with more grace than the other way around. Still however have a massive communication issue, we never talk about my spankings but do seem to have a code where she recognices I'm in need but I don't verbally badger for one (I am allowed to flag-up my birthday spanking which is due in a few weeks).
Not just a case of doing things differently 6 years ago when I first made the suggestion to Mrs GL but actually doing my life from teenager a bit differently!!! In terms of advice, if you have a problem asking, be brave and do it. If she has a problem then nothing I can say will help alas, if you are lucky she may agree like Mrs GL without ever actually saying so...Cheers GLM
I just wanted to say how excited I was to see this topic… it’s so timely for what’s going on in my life. I joined this blog years ago, when I had “come out” to my wife on this front. Like so many here, the stereotypical husband in the DWC survey; long term married…family….”alpha” exec… had always been (or learning maybe I just saw myself) as HoH. Out of the blue dumping this need on my poor unsuspecting non spanko wife. Hell mine had never been exposed to spanking (not even as a kid) and wasn’t stern or disciplinary by nature. Over time I had gotten to the point that I stopped posting here because I was starting to feel like a fake or a poser, as the years rolled on and my wife and I continued to reference, talk about, joke about DD…but it wasn’t actually happening. She’d give varied degrees of impression she was open to it but we got to a certain point in the process, then got stuck. Thank God for this site and all you here. Of all the many lessons I learned from this community, arguably the most important has turned out to be….BE PATIENT, this can be a LONG LONG journey getting there.
ReplyDeleteWhile she had been doing some spanking, for the time being she had wanted to keep them “fun and playful”. Well….after all this time there were some dynamic changes that started to occur this past November. I won’t bore the group (but always happy to share). It culminated in my wife reading the amazing Rebecca Lawson book, The Good Wife Guide to Taking Charge aloud on a 6 hour drive we had alone and for the first time we REALLY talked through it. (Dan I think you know her…..I’d love to thank her). It was like a light went on with her (not just the book but all the other things that happened all at same time) that hey, this is “real” this isn’t some game he’s playing. By the end of the ride, we had made that big step of her saying…”OK, I’m in….let’s give this a shot”. In the 3 weeks since, I’ve learned we’re at the final hurdle…something happened recently that I think all of us would agree on how it should have been handled at this point…but it wasn’t. I came to realize that just because she agrees she’s going to, that doesn’t mean a switch was instantly flipped and my non spanko, non disciplinary by nature wife is now grabbing me and tanning my butt all over the house. The final step now is her getting comfortable with the reality of giving a DISCIPLINARY spanking, intentionally making it hurt, seeing my physical reaction (also my butt turns deep color FAST….even gets purple-ish….that freaks her out) and the ability to ignore my pleas or whimpers and continue to spank until a true spanking has been delivered. We’ve talked about it…she did say she knows…and it will…it needs to “just happen”. Anyone have comments about getting over that hurdle? Wives who had the same problem getting comfortable “hurting him”so have some guidance?
Hi Darren. Great news about the progress. My wife had a similar "aha!" moment, but it was with The Hesitant Mistress. If I had to recommend books in this space that may give a wife insight on this dynamic, it would be those two, though I've found that usually one resonates with a particular reader but the other one does not. I don't actually know Rebecca Lawson, but I do remember reading that book and being shocked when I got to the end and found she had recommended this blog as a resource.
DeleteAs for how to get comfortable "hurting him," when we first started it was clear that we needed build in some formality and structure if it was ever going to work, even if that can kind of cut against the grain of the common fantasy of the woman taking charge fully and spontaneously. We instituted a system in which we agreed upon certain offenses, and a presumptive minimum number of swats with our "fraternity style" paddle for each offense. She could decide to give more than the presumptive minimum, but not less. I was tasked with writing down each offense in a paper journal, along with my tally of the minimum number of swats. We scheduled a weekly session to deal with the cumulative offenses. While I wouldn't want that kind of rigid system today, it had the benefit of giving her a kind of advance permission to dole out the punishment that our system required, even if it added up to a lot of swats.
I usually recommend that spankings be on the bare for safety reasons, but if she is that squeamish, maybe try doing them with pants up until she gets used to it? I'm not sure that a spanking over jeans actually hurts any less. If you don't think an effective spanking can be given over jeans, watch these clips (sorry, can't find anything similar with a male spankee):
https://www.spankingtube.com/video/39701/paddled-to-tears-on-the-last-day-of-school
https://www.spankingtube.com/video/54337/school-paddling-to-tears
https://www.spankingtube.com/video/54166/paddled-after-class
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DeleteDan- Thanks for this and good to feel back in the fold.
DeleteAnd DAMN...you're right.....you apparently can give all they need over jeans! I'm not a big "vid guy" but is there any such thing as a decent DD clip or 2? Just normal people not spank video actors.
DeleteDarren,
ReplyDeleteIs this " for you or for your wife or both of you? It does matter
Alan
Hi Alan-
ReplyDeleteWhile she's the one that needs to get OK w the physical(well and I guess mental too...) aspect giving a true spanking.. any comment or advice for either of us is very welcomed.
Alan- Maybe a better answer. She knows all about the blog and what a devoted follower I have been. There have been plenty of times I've shared with her topics, related comments from here. So at this point I'd probably share w her that I had posted and then any comments "we" might get. God the dream that this would be the impetus for her to come her herself!
ReplyDeleteDarren,
ReplyDeleteFor her I think the advice and wisdom of the many wonderful women who have discussed this issue would be the best information you could provide her. If I could sum up what I have taken away from these discussions, disciplinary wives who have gone over that " hurdle" come to believe that strict discipline and hard spanking is both what their husbands really want and really need. I expect seeing the positive results of that helps too. As far as getting over my own "hurdle" it was after several hard spankings, some of which I stopped, that I realized ( during the spanking itself) that this is what I really need and want and I should submit and accept what she is doing. I let the spanking go way past anything I had thought I could handle on until I was actually raising my bottom toward her brush in submission. Afterward it felt great and she was very proud of me and I have never really seriously resisted being spanked since then
Good luck
Alan
To Darren and his wife from a Disciplinary Wife,
DeleteI think the key, Darren, is to help her figure out what concerns her and then address those concerns--or she may want to address them on her own, either here or elsewhere.
I had three key concerns:
1. I was very nervous that spanking my husband would turn him into a wimp. He is an alpha, and I wanted him to stay an alpha (except when obeying me, of course). Dan and several other alphas on here convinced me that Jimmy would not lose his swag.
2. I wanted to be sure there were benefits for me. I didn't know that Jimmy got aroused by the idea of being spanked, but it turns out he does. So it may be kinky for him but it also has to have real measurable results. I realized that I need to spank hard enough that he loses his erection and is totally focused on the behavior that I need him to change. That has been the case, at least partly because (and this is for your wife) I spank very hard. I never use my hand, and my favorite implement is the bath brush, which really stings and bruises. I did start with him fully clothed, not because I didn't want to see bruises but because we were separated and not having sex and I knew that if I saw his bare bottom I would be enticed. But now that I am seeing what I do to his bottom, I am glad that there were many paddlings where I did not see the effects of my power. So she may want to start that way.
3. I needed to know that our DD was permanent, that there was no going back, that Jimmy was going to take what I dished out. He promised me that was the case, and he has been true to his word. He has never once complained before, during, or after a spanking, and this has been very important to me. Because he is much bigger than me and very macho, I need to know that I have authority over him and that he is going to obey me. That power is what has led to our reunification and current happiness.
Belle
Great thoughts, that I'm going to share! Thx!
DeleteDarren, I would add for your wife that there has been one completely unexpected benefit of DD for me. I find the power over my husband extremely erotic. So while spanking itself does not turn me on, obedience does. I feel it from the moment I send him for an implement and it grows as he delivers it to me, removes his clothing, bends over the arm of the couch and presents himself, and stays in position throughout his punishment. If he thanks me afterwards, which I do not require but he sometimes does on his own, I am about to explode. We usually proceed to the bedroom. I never would have guessed that DD would turn me on this way. Power corrupts.
DeleteLOL....and of course he loves it!
Delete