Sunday, July 5, 2020

The Club - Meeting 346 - Better

"My dad will hide me anyway but hell, its worth a hiding! Let's do it! What do ya say?" - Chris Chambers in Stand by Me

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships.

I hope you all had a great week. Mine was pretty sedate in terms of actual workload, yet stressful at the same time. I’ve reported in the past that I was approaching an inflection point in my career, and now it is really happening.  All in all, I think it is a good thing, even if a little unsettling. In the end, it’s time to stop doing something that stopped being fun a long time ago. 
  
But, I am finding that shutting down something you spent 25 years building is every bit as hard as it should be. Much of last week was spent letting people know that I’m transitioning out, and that was hard. It also proved hard on my body, as several of those conversations ended up involving too many “virtual” happy hours with cocktails that were all too real. Part of my regrets the excessiveness of it all, but another part of me maintains it is worth it in the end, if I separate with the people who cared about me and who I cared about feeling like I took the time to hang out and engage.  Did it earn me a spanking? Probably. Was it worth it? Probably. Hence the quote above.

I hope all of you in the U.S. had a good holiday weekend. Ours was pretty low key.  Spent time hanging out at our vacation condo.  One of the kids and his/her significant other hung out with us.  Did some walks with the dogs and did a very nice motorcycle ride today.  All the while respecting social distancing and mask wearing rules.  Do you get the impression that mask wearing seems to be what separates states that are doing OK from those that aren’t? 


We are in one of the states that opened earlier than maybe we should have, yet we aren’t seeing a big upsurge in cases. Could that be because we are a purple state that didn’t turn mask wearing into some idiotic political statement? Yeah, I kind of think that had something to do with it. Don’t agree with me? We can debate it later.

  
I almost posted another notice saying “No Post This Week.”  I keep finding myself running out of time on the weekends. I think that is probably a good indicator that things are going in the right direction, because I am spending very little time working on the weekends these days (unlike most of my 25 year career), yet I’m staying busy with family, hobbies, and friends.  Speaking of friends, I had one those “synchronicity” moments a couple of weekends ago.  We went to a graduation party at some friends’ house, and they were serving Busch beer. Busch isn’t really a thing here (is it anywhere?), so it kind of caught my attention in light of the fact that just a couple of hours before I had seen this meme that I thought was amusing:


Now, thankfully despite these fun and productive weekends,  I ended up not needing to completely punt on a topic again, as Tomy had so nicely provided me with a suggestion earlier in the week. He sent me an email stating:

A topic might be something like specific examples of results that benefited the home etc. I know you have mentioned better behavior at work and the implied benefit is there. This is more like asking for detailed examples.  

Arthur mentioned being a "better employee." It brought to mind the story a couple from the old DWC days. The man married a woman who had a teenage son. She was an unapologetic spanking disciplinarian and if the kid messed up, had a bad report card, etc. she took him in the bedroom and spanked the daylights out of him.

Hubby did a lot of his work out of the home - maybe accounting - I don't recall. I think there as some element of it that she helped him with.  It was a small house and hubby, who didn't even know he had a spanking interest, clearly heard everything, and found himself basically turned on by it. He wrote to Aunt Kay and she encouraged him to talk to his wife about it which he did. She agreed on the condition that there could absolutely be no changing his mind.

What resulted in the long run was that their business improved dramatically to the point of their upgrading their home and lifestyle.

So, that is the topic for this week. Are there examples you can give of ways in which Domestic Discipline has benefited not just one of the two parties most directly involved but the household as a whole? 

There isn’t any question in my mind that DD has benefited our household as a whole, though some of it has been indirect. A few that come to mind:
  • We found DD at a time in which both of us were increasingly frustrated with my behavior. If something had not come around that (a) gave her more control; and (b) imposed some boundaries on my behavior, I think we could have been heading toward something like Liz has recounted, with her moving out and taking the kids with her. Now, I don’t know that things would have headed in that direction, but it is definitely within the range of likely possibilities. So, without DD there is some chance we would not have had a household at all.
  • Similarly, I think that DD kept things kinky and interesting, such that we didn’t really hit that “seven year itch” thing that really does seem to lead couples to look around at alternatives every seven years or so. Interestingly, we started doing DD a little more than 7 years into our marriage, at a point where things weren’t going all that smoothly. In the period since, we have never hit the kind of impasse that other couples seem to hit. I have to wonder whether that is because DD and FLR (a) led to growth on her part that kept her interesting to me; and (b) kept me from fucking up so badly that she would have shown me the door.
  • I’m not really sure whether DD has enhanced my career and my contribution to our household earnings over time. But, I am pretty sure that the confidence and better self-image Anne got as a result of it improved her career significantly. Again, while the cause and effect is not perfectly linear, I think that DD gave her the self-confidence to change her career direction, to get an advanced degree, and to take on leadership roles in her career.  When I listen to her on a Zoom call with colleagues today, there is a confidence there that I am not so sure would have resisted without her taking on a leadership role at home.
  • My wife grew up with what I consider a pretty piss-poor example of a wife and mother’s role. Her dad worked. Her mom raised the kids mostly without his help.  He drank and hung out with his buddies. She got pissy and confined him to the couch, but other than that, did little or nothing about it. I think that thanks to DD, our kids saw a more productive approach, with an empowered wife who drew meaningful lines and was her own advocate.
  • I know my kids have benefited from me thinking before I talk or, more pointedly, tease. I never intentionally hurt feelings, but the prospect of being spanked if I said something hurtful certainly made me think twice about saying something that might have been taken the wrong way and caused resentment.
So, those are my thoughts on concrete benefits of DD for the family as a whole. What can you tell us about how it has helped your household and the people in it?

21 comments:

  1. While not trying to be evasive, I can't help but think that there is some sort of obvious self-evidence to this question. If DD is used to improve certain behavior in a person who lives in a household, and the DD does improve that behavior, would that not mean a direct benefit to the entire household? I wonder if I'm missing something? However, if this is just a request for specifics I feel like I could just cut-and-paste last week's response to answer that.....or just refer folks to scroll back to re-read it....but given that it didn't generate much of a response then, I don't see how it suddenly would now.

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  2. I think it is self-evident that marital intimacy benefits the family as a whole. So, if a wife contributes intimacy to her relationship with her husband by regularly spanking him for cause, or because he welcomes it, that benefits everyone, albeit indirectly. As octogenarians, sexual intimacy is no longer possible, but this has not diminished our need for intimacy. If anything, that need grows with age. My wife no longer has any desire for sex, and, biologically, I understand that, but I still love my wife and she me. Spankings provide a tangible means of expressing that intimacy. What Viagra can no longer do, a well spanked bottom works very well for us.
    About two weeks ago, prior to seeing a doctor, a middle-aged nurse was going through my list of medicines, when she got to “Viagra, use as needed.” I responded, “At 81, that is a bit presumptuous,” and she giggled. Understandably! But my wife and I know of a very good substitute for Viagra at our ages, but I did not share that fact with the nurse. LOL

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  3. Dan,
    First, good luck on your change! Change is exciting.

    "What can you tell us about how it has helped your household and the people in it?"
    - My marriage is passionate and happy. My husband wants to be submissive to me and this satisfies him, and me.
    - Without repeating it all again, he has greatly improved with respect to bad spending and work habits. This made us both happier.
    - My husband is very confident.
    - Our children experienced a more stable home. We always talk things out.
    - I insisted on us following healthier paths when it comes to being active and having a better diet. Our children picked up healthy eating habits.
    - My husband enjoys some kink; as the boss I would be lying if I said I didn't ;-).
    - I'm fortunate because I always had more leisure time. He is responsible for most chores and tells me he loves this relationship. I pitch in if I need to. (My husband read a blog comment from a man who enjoyed his job as a manager in his company, and then enjoyed being submissive to a Dominant wife at home. My husband confessed he wanted this.)
    - We trust each other. My husband would never be allowed to occasionally roam out in the wilderness with his buddies if I didn't trust him. This year they have a closer trip planned at the end of the month near a country home we have.
    Have a wonderful week.
    CarolH.

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  4. This is Arthur. Tomy commented after one of the posts from me or Liz that it sounded like DD saved our marriage. I agree with that and would add it saved our whole family.
    I have related the story a couple of times about how my wife took the kids and went to her mother's, but I don't think I have described the actual conversation that led to reunification. I talked to my wife on the phone and asked her to come home. I promised things would be different. She asked how I could promise that, since it seemed apparent I could not control my sharp tongue with her or the children. I hesitated. I'm glad we were on the phone because I do not think I could have asked her for DD in person. Then I said something like, "Your mom said something at the door a couple days ago when she wouldn't let me in to see you. She said I deserve a good thrashing. And I think she's right. I think you should paddle my behind and do it each and every time I am out of line with the kids or with you. You've told me that physical punishment worked between your parents, so I think we should try it too. That way you will have some recourse, and it will be a wake-up call for me."
    Now it was her turn to hesitate. So I jumped back in and said, "I don't want you to be my mother. I want you to be my wife that holds me accountable. I've been thinking about this constantly ever since your mom made the comment. It shouldn't be like how you spank the kids. It should be with a paddle, not your hand. And over the desk or table, not over your lap. And my clothes should be up. But it should be plenty hard."
    I was so nervous waiting for her reply. She said one word: "Yes."

    So many things have changed:
    There are far fewer arguments between us.
    I get along much better with the kids. We are more affectionate. As Dan says, we all benefit when I think before I talk or tease.
    Our whole household is calmer.
    I am more relaxed.
    I get along better with co-workers and supervisors. This could lead to a promotion someday.

    Speaking of work, congratulations, Dan, on taking the big step!

    I would say that in our experience there has been everything positive and nothing negative about DD, other than the intense pain I have to go through in the moment. Well worth it!
    Arthur

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    1. Hi Arthur. I understand the difficulty of asking for DD in person. In my case, I did do it in person, but it was in bed, with the lights off, and was more of a halting and awkward statement that I had seen an interesting website that I thought she should check out. I told her what it was about, but didn't go so far as asking that she try it. I was pretty mortified, and I don't know whether I could have really done it had it been a face-to-face conversation with lights on.

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  5. I honestly don't know that the benefits of DD go beyond the two people involved in the relationship. I believe the testimony of those who report that it extends to others in the immediate family or even beyond the immediate family, but it’s not something I can speak to personally. What I do know for sure is that the deep intimacy that disciplinary spanking brings to a relationship is enormous. My former girlfriend remarked once to me that spanking (me) was much more intimate than "just sex" She was far ahead of me at the time in understanding that. But I have come to realize that submitting to a spanking and the whole experience of surrendering to my wife’s will creates a level of intimacy, trust and love that ( in my experience) just isn't accessible otherwise. Ironically spanking is a punishment traditionally used before adulthood, but we now know that spanking children can harm them while spanking adults can be a way to promote growth and maturity. Being spanked has helped me to "grow up”, and achieve a level of emotional maturity and self-knowledge I lacked before that first real spanking. Before that I was obsessed with an unrealistic and unhealthy fantasy that stilted me emotionally. That first real spanking begins to replace that fantasy with the harsh reality of real punishment - and that is what I needed to give up what I view now as childish and immature behavior. I remain a work in progress but I know that if I slip off the rails , my wife’s strap or brush will put me back on track whether I like it or not.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan,
      Agree completely on all points. This really resonates with me, especially the intimacy.

      -ZM

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    2. I agree about the intimacy, which has been a big surprise to a novice spanker. We aren't having sex so it is definitely the most intimate thing we do.
      Belle

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  6. One of the things Dan said about his wife resonates with me. The increased confidence. Why would spanking my husband make me more confident with others? For some reason it does. I guess it's this new-found sense of power that I have. I see the look on Jimmy's face when I send him for the bath brush and I feel this surge of power. And a bit of that power stays with me throughout the day. I am more willing to speak my mind in work meetings and in the classes I am taking. I don't have stronger opinions, but I express them more strongly. Having this tool to put my husband in his place, and seeing him respond to it and give me RESPECT, has given me more confidence that I deserve respect from others as well.
    The other impact is that our house is cleaner. No more Jimmy underwear on the floor. He got two spankings for that and magic - bad habit ended! We have agreed that he will do half the cleaning, with the bath brush to enforce it if he forgets.
    We are getting along very well as a celibate couple. I don't see that lasting much longer! That reminds me of another demonstration of my bath brush power - there's a tent in his underwear when the spanking starts, but not when it's over!
    Belle

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  7. "A tent in his underwear". Delightful phrasing. Writers just love stuff like that..

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  8. Hello Dan,
    I keep coming by every day or two, but just haven’t had time to stop and actually write something. Not only is it a crazy time, but interruptions to our schedule (and life) from COVID also means that nothing is really happening on the DD front, so that also affects my motivation to even think much about it; why think about it since right now it just isn’t happening at all?

    So on to your question: “Are there examples you can give of ways in which Domestic Discipline has benefited not just one of the two parties most directly involved but the household as a whole?” I can think of a couple, but one I will reserve for a separate comment about last weeks’ topic.

    The one I will mention here is related to when my wife was doing the “bootcamp” type time for a little while, I think it might now be 2 years ago. Anyway, we were doing daily reporting and she was keeping records of how I was doing on work-related things, organization, etc., since I was trying to get something launched and just couldn’t get enough traction, since I felt really down and stuck. She was giving daily grades (+, 0, or -) based on her impression of how well I was doing. Then she was doing weekly “check-ins” where she went over the daily results, paddle or cane in hand, which resulted in anything from a pretty minor maintenance spankings all the way up to pretty full-blown punishments.

    The program was very effective, but unfortunately it came to an end due to lack of opportunity due to no privacy. While I ended up abandoning that product that I was developing, it ended up getting me back in the game and I ended up becoming CTO of another startup, so while the result looks a bit different than we were thinking, it is very, very good!

    This has resulted in a dramatic shift in our economic situation, which went from horrible to pretty good, and this has affected everyone in the family in a very positive way.

    I can only imagine what kind of benefits we might have reaped by now had we been able to stick with the program long enough to change more habits, since she was working on many “little things” like disorganization, being late, not using time effectively, and so on, which when put together greatly contribute to most of the stress and chaos in our lives!

    -ZM

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  9. Similar to ZM's account, Aunt Kay used a daily reporting scheme to get me out of a huge funk too. It tracked how I used my time throughout the day and performance against specific goals.

    Interestingly, she weighted any excuses I had carefully and always gave me the benefit of the doubt. She was incredibly fair-minded. Which actually made me feel even worse when I failed. It took a few weeks of system to get me back into real momentum. Several months later we moved from a pretty dumpy place to a far, far better situation.

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    1. Hi Tomy,
      That sounds really similar. My wife also was exceedingly fair. I really related to exactly what you wrote, especially about feeling even worse when you failed, since it seemed pretty much identical.

      -ZM

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    2. These days I am in an extended funk; I try to leverage the mindset and values she taught me. It's been years and I know it's on me to make my way out of it somehow. A disciplinary boot-camp would definitely shove me onto the right track. But hey, life is about adapting and even I am getting tired of hearing about my travails.

      Point to be taken though is if you do have a DD thing going, consider figuring out a way to make the most out of the growth and development possibilities.

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  10. I have a hypothetical question for you to consider for a future topic: "If starting tomorrow, behavior suddenly improved to a point that DD was no longer warranted......what would you do going forward? Would you drop DD completely? Change it to something else? Essentially, without the rationale of behavior as the impetus, would you resort to living out your days as a harmonious "vanilla couple" or "kinky couple" who continues to use spanking for less 'real' issues?

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    1. Wow, KD! That is a powerful and insightful question, since it cuts to the very core of the motivation for a couple’s DD relationship. I won’t fully answer it here in case Dan decides to run with it (though I will tip most of my hand), but here are some random thoughts.

      - There is a big difference between benefits and reasons. For us one minor benefit is improved behavior - among many others such as unparalleled intimacy, better communication, and so on - but the REASON we do DD is quite simply because I have a fantasy/fetish/kink/need for imposed discipline.

      - Probably DD could be effective without there being an underlying fantasy or kinky desire, but that would dramatically change the dynamic. Then it would be a lot more like being sent to the principal’s office was for most kids.

      - If you remove most of the sexual element from it - i.e. Alan’s “nuclear option” - does that make the feelings around the whole thing seem more like the principal’s office experience.

      - Huge paradox. How is it that something that I want and need so badly that I actually crave it can be used as a punishment? Some might say to make the punishment to not be spanked, though for me that wouldn’t work as well. For us, the key to this is that while I really, really crave all this every other time OTHER than when it is happening (or imminent). THEN I will do anything and everything to keep it from happening and I most sincerely do NOT want it to happen!

      - The fact that is all at once so not wanted at the time, yet also so deeply tied into underlying fantasies is what gives it such incredible power and effectiveness for me. When she “speaks to me” in this way, she will be clearly heard, and it will stay present in my thoughts for days or weeks afterwards, so that can help to change even deep-rooted behaviors and attitudes.

      - Another paradox. The act of spanking (at least in the context of marriage or relationship) is undeniably sexual, even though it is unbelievably unpleasant at the time and even if the “topic” or reason for the spanking (which is a real transgression) is not in any way sexual.

      - this whole sexual and non sexual thing is what drives the secrecy dilemma. I really wish that someone - anyone - could know about this, since it is such a large part of what makes me tick. But because there is a sexual element, it is not easy to share.

      - Why do we so need to convince ourselves that our DD relationship is not driven by a fantasy for it to be real? I can assure you, the times my wife has chosen to punish me, it has been because she was truly upset, irritated, disappointed, hurt, or frustrated. Yes, the whole DD thing plays into my fantasy, but the reasons are real enough, the punishments are a little too real, and the fact that there is an underlying fantasy just helps to really drive the message home.

      - At the same time, there are those who need to convince themselves that the reasons for punishment are not all that real, so they can take comfort in knowing it is just some kinky game for them with trumped up reasons. Maybe they fear they might be seen as abusive bullies or something? My wife kind of fell in this camp in the beginning (she really needed it to be just a game), until she realized that DD was actually super effective at dealing with real feelings and issues. Of course, if we didn’t have DD, we would find other ways to work through problems - like simply talking or something - but we have DD, we have found it to be most effective, and we prefer it.

      - I am going to assume that many people are here because the husband has a fantasy linked to spanking or imposed discipline which he has shared with his wife. Fantasies that are shared bring incredible intimacy, whereas fantasies that are hidden tend to bring about distance and even destruction. Also, trusting your wife to choose when, how, and how hard to punish you and also look out for your well-being causes another level of intimacy. So having experienced this type of intimacy, if you didn’t have DD, what would you do to not lose that level of intimacy?
      -ZM

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    2. I agree it is a good topic, but let's please do save it and I'll post it tomorrow.

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  11. Hi Dan,
    And now I will go on to last weeks topic, since it seems to tie in so well to this weeks, as KD pointed out. It is going to be long, so I will break it in two parts.

    “What was your parent’s attitude toward spanking and discipline and how did it affect, if at all, your own openness to DD as an adult whether you are now spanker or spankee?” - I really have no idea at all. I know that my parents spanked. I vividly remember a few spankings from my Dad, who largely disappeared from my life while I was in grade school, even though I don’t remember much else about life with him. This may well be what drives my whole spanking “need,” since I desperately wanted some connection with him but he was totally absent; my memories of spankings - while not pleasant - somehow provided a link to him. I know that my mom did spank me, but I don’t remember it at all, even though I was always close to her so I of course haven’t suppressed any memories of her.

    “If you are a husband who is spanked by your wife, does that affect your relationship with your kids in any way?”

    I would say DD hasn’t directly affected me very much in the way I interract with my three older kids (2 biological and 1 step). This may be because they were already pretty much independent before DD started happening.

    However, as I mentioned yesterday, our “boot camp period” DID help me to rise up and re-engage with life after a series of crushing events sucked the life out of me. My ex-wife left me in a foreign country with two teenagers to raise alone at the same time as the business that I founded and was CEO of hit the wall. Before this, everyone knew me, I was speaking publicly all the time to groups of hundreds of people, I was on TV multiple times, basically I was king of the world - a small world because I live in a small country! And then I watched it all unravel. It was like a train wreck in slow motion, spread over a 5 year period. As the business died, nobody was all that interested in me anymore. There were no more speaking engagements. My income fell to almost zero, even as I was working day and night trying to make something happen. I struggled to even feed my daughters, often resorting to selling things just to buy food for a day or two. Somehow, I managed to get them both into great “almost Ivy league” universities back in the USA, and they are now doing great! And I got together with my amazing wife. So truly the best of times and the worst of times all at once.

    But as we were climbing out of the awfulness, I was still feeling totally stuck. I had largely withdrawn from the world and mostly stayed home, which was easy because I was also working from home. I just couldn’t get back into the game. But when I asked my wife to step in and help by using DD as a motivator, it helped to bring me back to life and has helped to change everything, even though that “boot camp” period was cut much shorter than we wanted and probably needed.

    All this has actually enabled me to become more actively engaged with my almost grown up kids. Just being able to help them with some of their financial needs as they navigate college and early employed life is helping a lot, because before I was always worried that they would have some need that I couldn’t help with. And then the fact that I am now re-engaged with life is tremendously helpful, since I am a lot more fun to interact with now!

    -ZM

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  12. And now on to the rest of the questions:

    “Does it make you a better father? More attentive and less immature, perhaps? Does being subject to spanking and being lectured or chastised affect how you interact with your kids?”
    Yes, mostly with my youngest (step) son. Multiple times now, I have been punished for being too hard on him, mostly by being too sarcastic or saying things that have hurt his feelings. Those occasions have been very interesting, because in every case, I have felt that my wife was being at least somewhat unfair because she would focus only on what I had said and not very much on the circumstances that triggered it, and I have often wished that just once she could take my side. So basically I have hated it as a reason for DD. Also, in those cases, she has been a bit more emotionally charged in administering DD - kind of the “mama bear” syndrome I guess so those were some painful spankings! However, by the end of each punishment, I have realized that she is right - maybe not about the circumstance, but about how I was reacting to it, which is what I am responsible for anyway. Consequently, I have become much more laid back, and have learned not to say things that inadvertently crush my son’s spirit. He is quite sensitive and lacks adequate self-esteem because he too had serious father issues, and I have learned to be much more of the father that he needs, and I can see that now I am helping him to gain self-confidence. In other words, even though he has no idea about our DD - at least as far as I know - it has dramatically boosted our bonding and relationship!

    One thing that this question made me think of is the paradox that exists that we have talked about here before. My stepson is totally reliant upon us and is not yet all that independent, and yet he is never really subject to my wife’s discipline, or at least certainly not spanking, and really nothing that even approaches chastisement so maybe just the occasional lecture. At the same time, I am responsible for most everything and ultimately make the majority of decisions for our family, yet I am subject to being punished at the whim of my wife, and when this happens I am scolded, lectured, and spanked until I am very much a chastised little boy. It is an interesting dynamic, for sure!

    “For the moms, how did your own exposure or lack thereof to spanking as a kid affect your own openness to adult corporal punishment? Today, has taking a disciplinary role over your husband changed your approach to being a parent in any way?” - I will answer these for her, since she isn’t here to ask right now, and we have talked a lot over the past few years about every aspect of DD. She was not really subject to much spanking in her house. She came from a very peaceful, calm, and fun family, and her parents were great, I think. This is particularly interesting because they were pretty much opposite of the normal mentality here. So her friends probably were subject to corporal punishment, and in school corporal punishment was very common - and in some cases still is, even though it is now illegal. Basically every teacher had a switch, and they regularly used them. This has given her some ideas as well… I don’t think that her taking a disciplinary role over me has in any way change her approach to parenting, at least that I have noticed.

    -ZM

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  13. Hi ZM,
    Your several posts above provide a wealth of insights and reveals about DD, the nature of the male fantasy that drives so much of it and examples of how smart loving women can turn a problem into an opportunity - by understanding the fantasy and figuring out how it can be made to work for their relationship – and I believe there are more and more women, liberated from the overhang of our Victorian prudishness who want to understand but are not presented with the sort of open and honest information you are offering. It is a tragedy that (apparently) so many otherwise good relationships are damaged or destroyed by a lack of information about what drives the male fantasy and how easy it is to manage it. You make a real contribution with posts like those above
    Alan

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  14. I'm late to the party (Something that irritates me, but not enough to change) but I wanted to congratulate you on your change. It's never easy, even if we want it, but the end result is oh-so-worth-it.

    This whole quarantine/lockdown has changed things for many people, myself included. I'm facing down 59 tomorrow (the 13th) and the isolation from many of the people I love has had a negative effect. Discipline is in my blood so to speak, so no outlet and way more responsibility has given me all sorts of physical and mental distress. If it wasn't for you and kdpierre adding your words to my life, I just might go stir crazy. Nothing else really holds my interest.

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