Saturday, August 17, 2019

Club Meeting 308 - Parental Discipline

“If soldiers are punished before they have grown attached to you, they will not prove submissive; and, unless submissive, then will be practically useless. If, when the soldiers have become attached to you, punishments are not enforced, they will still be useless.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships, mainly of the Female/male variety.  I hope you had a good week.

Mine was one in which everything at work seemed to go from bad to work, and some of it because of very undisciplined behavior.  And, for once, not just mine.  I had a new colleague pushing buttons in some major ways, and he finally pushed the wrong one and I went off.  I reported last year about an incident in which I went off on someone and Anne made me apologize to them, and how humbling that was.  This time the situation is different, in that last time I really did feel like I jumped to a conclusion that was wrong even if it was perfectly consistent with the kind of dick-ish behavior this person displayed on a regular basis. Even if it was humbling to do, I felt like my behavior really called for it precisely because my reaction to him was factually wrong.  This time, there really isn’t any doubt this guy was crossing lines and pushing buttons.  The only real issue is whether my reaction was consistent with what I expect from myself and, hence, whether some humbling is called for even if I wasn’t actually in the wrong this time.  I guess another way of putting it is you can react in a way that is perfectly consistent with reality and that the recipient 100% deserves, yet it still may not be consistent with the kind of behavior you want to embody.  I need to think about this more, because right now I’m still pretty pissed off at this guy and enjoying wallowing in my righteous indignation and feeling kind of good about taking him down a peg.  But, for now, on to other things.

In one of the final comments on last week’s topic, “A husband who knows” suggested the following:  “Possible topic: Compare the discipline you got from your parents with the discipline you get from your wife (or give to your husband). How are they alike and different? Which has been more effective? Which do you prefer?” This touches a bit on a post I did back in February about the maternal element in discipline, and while I generally try to avoid doing the same topic twice in one year, this one is broader and gives people more room to roam.  Also, I’ve honestly been wanting to explore the issues around maternal and parental discipline more, because I’ve been getting more comfortable with admitting to myself that, while many here seem to have come to adult discipline via an early and probably innate fascination with spanking, my own needs in this area seem more closely tied to discipline or lack thereof as a teenager that now compels me to want discipline with a particularly “parental” element.

But, before we get to that, a hopefully interesting aside.  In looking for quotes to put at the top of this post, I thought that a good place to start for quotes related to parental discipline might be to run a Google search for quotes related to the biblical injunction of “spare the rod and spoil the child.”  What I found was kind of fascinating given the context of this blog and today's topic because, as it turns out that quote actually is not from the Bible at all and, in fact, is about adult spanking!  For the whole back story, check out this article: http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2010/11/spare-rod-and-spoil-child-is-not-in.html.  Note: The quote I ended up using has nothing to do with parental discipline, but I found it while doing the search for quotes for today's topic and it seemed to me to be a very insightful statement on the interplay between love and authority.

Now, after that little diversion, I’ll throw out my own answer to “A husband who knows” topic, hopefully without retreading too much on February’s post. 

For someone who now spends hours a week writing or reading about adult discipline, being disciplined plays a very minor role in my memories of my childhood and teen-age years.  Paradoxically, I’ve come to believe that is why it became such an obsession for me after I discovered Domestic Discipline via The Disciplinary Wives Club website.  In terms of spankings, I honestly don’t have a clear memory of a single one I received from my mother, though I assume she must have given me a few because it was such a commonplace thing where I was growing up that it would have been astonishing for any kid to not get spanked by both parents fairly regularly. 

I think the reasons I don’t recall any by my mother is because they simply weren’t that eventful and probably happened when I was young enough that I just don’t remember them.   

Interestingly, I do remember at least one spanking she gave one of my sisters.  In fact, it had some corollaries to the drawing the left, except what I recall is my sister being draped over the end of the bed, not on all fours on top of it.  What I don't recall is exactly how I came to have this memory. The most likely explanation is that I opened the bedroom door a crack and looked in as it was happening.  Probably should have earned one myself for that behavior.

I'm also pretty certain that was not the only time my sister got spanked.  She was kind of a bully as a teen and got in lots of trouble at school and, like a lot of families at that time and in that place, the rule was "get spanked at school, get a second and harder one at home that night."

I do recall some threatened and at least one actual spanking from my father.  I recall the threatened spanking situation fairly vividly, and it involved one of those very direct instructions that if I kept doing something I was going to get spanked.  What I don’t recall is whether I actually did keep doing what I was doing and did actually get spanked.  I even more vividly recall one actual spanking, because it would have been pretty hard to forget as it was a very sound spanking with a belt.


But, I think it is not so much spanking in particular as discipline in general where my parent’s approach was both atypical for the time and place but also very distinct from what I need now and what my wife are increasingly experimenting with her trying to provide.  My mother was very strong-willed in some ways, but it was expressed very erratically.  She could go from June Cleaver to Mommy Dearest in a heartbeat.  She seldom made or enforced rules but, at the same time, could be very pushy and aggressive.  But, it was totally inconsistent and never really connected to setting a rule precluding any particular bad behavior and then imposing a consequence for that behavior. 

My father’s approach to bad behavior was even more forgiving.  He had been a wild man in his youth and, frankly, well past the age where most men start growing up.  If I had to compare him to a literary character, the closest I can come is probably Hud in the Larry McMurtry novel “Horseman Pass By,” which was made into a movie starring Paul Newman as the erratic western anti-hero Hud. He was sort of a force of nature, but it wasn’t just by temperament; it was his overarching philosophy and encompasses his philosophy on parenting.  He told me more than once in high school, “I’m not going to lay down a bunch of rules unless and until you screw up in some way that shows me you need them.”  Now, that may sound like a teenage boy’s wet dream, but the problem was I did, in fact, screw up a lot at least by normal standards.  I was just smart and lucky enough to get myself out of it most of the time.  So, there was almost nothing like accountability-based or rule-driven discipline for me growing up:


I wasn’t really aware of how stressful that was at the time, but I think by the time I got out of college I felt like I had the world on my shoulders, because when there are no boundaries being imposed on you, everything you do and all the associated consequences are fully on you, too.  By the time I got out of grad school, I felt an incredible amount of stress and anxiety, even if I didn’t really show it.  So, I think I was primed and ready when I stumbled on the Disciplinary Wives Club in my late 30s.  The descriptions of men having boundaries imposed upon them by strong-willed wives just really got to me deep down inside.  But, I don’t think I consciously associated it with anything maternal.  I really needed someone to set rules and enforce them consistently, but anyone would do if they had sufficient presence and authority to make me feel like I am not the one in command and that punishment is inevitable and resistance futile.  While the "strict mom" archetype serves that role, so could an aunt, teacher, school principal, or any other authoritarian whose power or position was sufficient to make me submit.

So, to answer “A husband who knows” first question, the differences between the discipline received from my parents and the discipline from my wife are like night and day.  My parents very seldom spanked and, at least once I got old enough to remember such things, arguably never really disciplined, at least if we associate discipline with, to use Anton’s word, “training.”  “Effectiveness” follows that same answer – my parents didn’t discipline at all, so anything my wife does is likely to be more effective.

I think the more interesting part of the topic for me is the interplay between what I didn’t get back then and what I think I need now. For a long time, I didn’t bring this up at all with Anne, or even really to myself, though I think I suspected on some level that my need for adult discipline is rooted in a need for what I will call, for lack of a better word, “re-parenting.” 


Anne has talked in positive terms about using DD to reduce me to a "teen-age boy who needs a spanking from his mom."  She also has compared me to a teenager who mischievously pushes buttons just to do it, then is surprised when she actually does something about it.  It's that roller-coaster ride that is my DD obsession—wanting boundaries when I don’t perceive them and then getting resentful when she suddenly imposes one.  What I am starting to appreciate is it may very well have been my own mother's erratic approach to parenting, and my father’s totally passive approach, that put me on that roller-coaster, wanting discipline when it is absent but resenting it once it is imposed. And, what I seem to both crave and resist the most is consistent, no nonsense rule setting and direction.  In fact, at the risk of saying anything negative, I think the one "deficiency" in our DD lifestyle has always been lack of consistency, and I think I crave it (and resist it) precisely because my mother was so inconsistent in her moods and parenting approach.

As discussed last year, I've also noticed that part of the attraction I have to spanking drawings that include a maternal vibe is the "getting down to business" demeanor and the sense of inevitability it conveys, and the domestic setting definitely adds to the ambiance.   


Yet, I have shied away from expressing a lot of this on the blog, because I do want it to be a positive resource that encourages newbies to try Domestic Discipline, but I also realize that the “I’m his wife, not his mother” attitude may be pretty prevalent with wives who are unexpectedly confronted with a husband’s need for discipline. 

So, thanks to a “Husband who knows” for this week’s topic.  I look forward to all your input on this.

By the way, I came across this demotivational poster a few weeks ago and about fell out of my chair laughing.  When it comes to my anti-authoritarian streak -- this is me.  Right here.

80 comments:

  1. Dan, very well written and thought out. As mentioned in a private message this week our interests came about through two opposite approaches. As a child, adolescent and young man I was subject to very strict discipline at the hands of s great aunt who had very much to do with my upbringing. A truly loving lady who was an absolute riot to be around during the best of times. All one needed to remember was that their were strict lines of behavior and corresponding accountability that involved either the paddle or strap. Life for me has been a journey of success in my profession leading to the senior executive levels where I have had to deal with more than my share of individuals similar to what you reference. The levels of frustration can’t help but follow you home. The great fortune you and many like minded men enjoy is a return to an environment where both the accountability and consequences await. As I moved into my later teens I have to admit there was an element of thrill/enjoyment experienced when I was sent upstairs to await the inevitable door opening and the sight of my aunt entering with the strap in hand...

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    1. Hi Chris. Glad to see you've moved from "lurker" to participant status. Welcome!

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  2. This topic always intrigues me. I have spent some time communicating with others and the most common thread was not if the person was disciplined growing up but the consistency and process of it.

    In my observational bias, it seems that parents who were inconsistent with discipline (to include spanking) tend to be a joining factor. By inconsistent I mean where boundaries and consequences dont match. My mom spanked alot...but most of the time it had to do with her frustration and anger. Spilled milk on the wrong day could be dose of the paddle and the next day "just clean it up".

    Attachment theory folks have fun with this but it does tend to lend to a "reparenting" type of scenario where part of you becuase of the confusion shelters a "little boy" and then your outward self matured. However, that detached little boy is still there and stunted in some ways emotionally.

    I think your quote may be on point. If there is not an attachment or trust or consistency, the style of discipline matters not. Thus creating a bigger problem to work out later that subtlety manifests itself in multiple areas of life.

    I am speaking from my own observations and experiences. I could be wrong. However, in self reflection recently I have come to see that our DD needs to have an end to create congruence of my self...help the little boy grow up and create consistent boundaries in the rest of my life. Spanking is just a tool and a means to an end.

    My 2 cents.

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    1. Your 2 cents resonates pretty strongly with me.

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    2. Responding to the question of the difference between parents and wife:
      1. Consent - with parents there was 0 choice. With my wife I dont have a choice but I gave her that authoirty. Submission can only happen with consent not oppression.
      2. My wife has listened to the why and what we are trying to achieve. With my parents (especially my mom) the spanking was more about them and thier emotions versus instructing me.

      Probably more but that us what I have now.

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    3. Thanks, SR. While it sounds like your mother was much more prone to spanking than mine, they seem to have had similar emotional and temperamental issues.

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  3. My parents both spanked hard and often. Even my sisters got it occasionally. With the boys it was frequent. Seldom did a week go by that one of the three of us didn"t get a "woopin'." And there were many weeks where I got it several times, as the youngest and the family and class clown.
    My father preferred the belt with us over the rolled arm of the couch. My mother preferred the wooden spoon or hairbrush with us OTK, usually in the kitchen. Pants were yanked down in front of family, left up in front of others. Many times my brothers and sisters saw me get it bare, which is why I probably have a touch of exhibitionism that my wife takes advantage of.

    All of my friends were spanked as well. It was expected and accepted, and we loved our parents regardless. By third grade we were exchanging stories and bragging about how much we could take, and even occasionally showing off the marks to each other. At school as well; it was a badge of honor, especially if you got it from a pretty female teacher. So we were sexualizing physical punishment before we knew what we were doing.

    Ironically, I never thought of bringing it into my relationships. I accepted it when nonconsensual from an authority figure, but did not desire it consensually with a partner. It wasn't until many years and a divorce later -- almost 30 years since my last high school paddling -- that I desired finding a woman who would punish me. And even then I wanted her to be totally in charge.

    I began traveling to nearby cities where there were spanking parties, and connected with a guy who used to work for Shadowlane who hosted regular parties in Seattle. His were M/f only, and I did my share of spanking. But mostly I looked at the several women who attended who had a dominant demeanor (they also probably couldn't find a F/m party). I was standing in a corner watching when my future wife approached. "You look like you need what those girls are getting," she said. I nodded with a dry mouth and she led me to a private room and over her knee. She spanked hard, OTK and pants down, and scolded much like my by that time deceased mom, and I had to hold back the tears from the memories. Afterwards i asked for her phone number but she refused. But she said, "I will take your number and may call YOU and date you if you agree to these conditions: I am looking for a husband, not a play partner. In this marriage I will be totally in charge and will decide when, where, how and why you are punished. If we get married, you will say obey in our marriage vows. You will be my knight, and I will be your queen, and everyone will know it."
    Finally I had found what I didn't even know I was craving: a nonconsensual maternal punishment relationship like I had experienced for my first 18 years! And so it has been.
    A husband who knows

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    1. You may be the only other guy on this blog who was not a spanking aficionado from very early.

      My experience was similar to yours with respect to growing up around spanking. I don't remember anyone bragging about it or comparing markings, but it definitely was pervasive.

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    2. It's fascinating to me: so many people who didn't experience spanking much or at all developed a curiosity about it and craving for it. Conversely, many who experienced it a lot as children had no adult fascination or craving until much later in life. My wife and I have had this conversation with many couples.

      Also the spanking role is enigmatic. I had a brief period as a spanker before meeting my wife. While she was dominant as a teen, she married a spanker and was the recipient for years! Then she and her husband followed the Spencer Spanking Plan and punished each other. And finally, when she turned 40, she decided to be a spanker only. She wouldn't dream of going over my knee!

      So it can clearly change as we go through different phases.

      A husband who knows

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    3. Yes we can adapt as switches but I suspect most of us have a strong orientation as spanker or spankee which eventually emerges. I played a top for almost a decade, not because I sought it but because virtually all the women who were interesting to me wanted spanked. But when I met a women who felt strongly that women were the natural disciplinarians I quickly came under her authority I strongly wanted to submit to her discipline. My wife who I met later had the same experience in reverse. Her first husband spanked her in a relationship that was not entirely consensual. By the time we met she knew what side of the paddle she belonged on while I had been well trained by the girlfriend who introduced me to adult spanking. We had the same growing pains along the way that most couples did but after each of us discovered and experienced our orientation, we never wavered.I have no desire to spank her and that is fortunate because she loves being in charge and plans to keep it that way

      Alan

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    4. This may be another indicator as to whether the individual's drive is primarily about spanking, or more about accountability, boundaries, etc. I've never had a desire to switch or been at all inclined to spank a woman. In fact, I have an aversion to it. I could probably bring myself to deliver a mild erotic spanking if my wife really wanted one, but I have no desire to do it and never have.

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    5. Well, if it is an indicator, then it is not very reliable! I have a strong spanking fetish, but basically have no desire to switch or spank a woman. I too could give a mild erotic spanking, but it would be only for her pleasure, and as far as I know (having not done it), it would do nothing for me sexually.

      -ZM

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  4. My parents both worked full-time, and we were well-off enough to have a live-in maid, a large African-American woman filled with affection who mothered me more than my mother ever did. My older sister told me that the maid used to lay me across her lap and pat my bottom and sing me lullabies. Thus was a spankee boy born subconsciously!

    My parents rarely spanked but they threatened it a lot in a half-joking manner. So I was extremely curious, and even as a young boy read everything about it that I could get my hands on.

    The few times my mother did spank me were memorable. Over her knee, bare, using her hand, hairbrush, wooden spoon or slipper (whatever implement was closest). It hurt and I was embarrassed but also excited. And it was the most physical contact and the greatest intimacy I had with her. After puberty I masturbated to those memories. And I fantasized about our maid spanking me, too, though she never did.

    So I was always into it, but did not reveal it to my wife until a decade of marriage and three children. She was very resistant at first, but did want my behavior to change so began fining me. That was effective enough that she realized I would respond to a rewards and punishment system. Now she paddles me, though she has decided not to do OTK with me as she does with the kids. She also uses rewards. "Pussy must be earned," and she can get me to do just about anything to earn it - just as effective as spanking, if not more do.

    There is a definite sexual component to our DD. She almost always wants to be licked after punishing me. So that is very different than parental. But she is maternal with the scolding and the motherly dominance and the comfort afterwards - and gives me that maternal component that I didn't get from my mom but did from our maid. And i also should mention my wife is mixed race, and that my subconscious attraction to her ethnicity is from my positive childhood experience.
    Anton
    Anton

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    1. It sounds like your wife made the transition from resistant to enthusiastic almost effortlessly.

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    2. Yes, she did. When she's spanking me I think too enthusiastic!

      I think she saw all the benefits. We fight less, I do more chores, she gets more oral. What is there for her not to like?
      Anton

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  5. Dan, I'm impressed with the in-depth reflections you have shared. I think one side benefit for readers is to learn from your example of fearlessly following emotional clues and examining them.

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    1. Thank you. Don't know about the "fearless" part. I have plenty of fears. Frankly, I've been defined by them most of my life. But, it's good to explore them here with people I trust, like you.

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  6. My wife says substitute "men" for "soldiers" in the quote, and especially agrees with "unless submissive, then will be practically useless."
    A husband who knows

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  7. To answer the specific questions:

    How are they alike and different?
    My wife punishes similarly to both parents. Usually she takes me OTK and uses a hairbrush, with lots of scolding like my mom. Other times she will use the belt, strap or cane with me bent over something, like my Dad. Always bare bottom, as they preferred, and always hard and until she decides to stop, just like them. My wife is like a blend of my parents!

    She also spanks for many of the same things as my parents did, such as bad attitude, forgetting chores, disrespect, backtalk. My mom hated eye rolling and other nonverbal signs of disrespect, and nothing gets my pants off faster with my wife as well.

    Which is more effective?
    My parents were effective, but I think my wife is more so because DD is part of an entire FLR program that covers all aspects of our lives.

    Which do you prefer?
    My wife by a long shot. I did have a choice to marry a disciplinary wife, while I did not choose my parents. When she is wailing away and I start wailing too, I remind myself, "I chose this." With my parents it was more, "I probably deserve this." Which I can also say with my wife.

    Plus the after-care is so much better with my wife. My mom would give me a quick hug and forgive me and that meant a lot. But with my wife it is much more extensive and often includes a sexual component that couldn't happen with parents. So more intense and intimate.
    A husband who knows

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    1. I too remind myself that I chose this and continue to do so.

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. I didn't read the whole series of articles, but my reaction is he makes a lot of sweeping generalizations and there is a pretty misogynist undercurrent to much of what he is saying. The one point he makes that I see as *generally* true, though still overstated, is that he sees submissive male behavior as problematic because a majority of women are not attracted to it. I suspect that on average, he is right that more women are attracted to dominant men than to submissive ones, but he extends the basic point without much support.

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    4. I agree. I also see a few more errors.
      Firstly - the article says that supposedly the desire to be spanked or the desire to spank, everyone appears in childhood. However, this is simply not true. I read many people who said that in childhood they were not spanked, and their desire for spanking appeared only at the age of 30, 40, or even 50. I myself did not want to spank long enough.

      Secondly - he claims that evolution has genetically determined this. However, he has no evidence of this. He only states this on the basis that before society was patriarchal. Obviously, he is not aware of recent studies that say that patriarchal society is only about 4-5 thousand years old. It turns out that the main period of our history (hunter-gatherers), human society was equal, and only during the transition to agriculture did the role of a woman fall, and patriarchy manifested itself. It can literally be said that patriarchy is the shortest period in the history of mankind; it did not last even five thousand years. Here is a link to this study:
      https://science.sciencemag.org/content/348/6236/796

      Third - yes indeed, for most women, dominant men are more attractive. However, the same can be said for most men, dominant women are more attractive. For both sexes, the majority loves to play a submissive role, and I don’t understand why he speaks specifically about women.

      And these are not just words, studies confirm this: "Social Dominance and Forceful Submission Fantasies:
      Feminine Pathology or Power?
      Patricia H. Hawley and William A. Hensley, IV
      Department of Psychology, University of Kansas"
      The research topic is female preferences, but men were also studied there. It turned out that the most socially successful group of men had significantly more submissive sexual fantasies than all other groups, including men and women.

      What do you think about it? Why do people like him spend so much time misogynation schizophrenia?

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    5. You make a good point about majority preferences. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that a majority of people are "submissive," but I do think that there is a very unequal balance between the few who are comfortable leading and the many who are more comfortable following. And, it makes some sense in terms of survival of the species, doesn't it? How would those hunter-gatherer societies have fared if there were more leaders than followers or, really, even a substantial number of real leaders in each group? You'd have bunch of people giving conflicting orders, killing each other in order to take the leadership role, etc.

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    6. I was referring specifically to sexual preferences.

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    7. Hi Dan,
      I just read the linked article. I too thought he made some huge generalizations. And in general, I probably agree with him at least somewhat, but he treats everything as so absolute. Like basically if you are a male that wants to be spanked, you are basically screwed. It might well be true that women in general prefer dominant males, but I would add a few observations. First off, I am not sure if this is as true now as it might have been 20,10, or maybe even 5 years ago (I am not sure when the article was written). Society is changing quickly in many respects. Secondly, I think that many of the guys who might desire spanking might be at least somewhat dominant in many other ways, even if they are submissive in this. Labels are easy to apply, but seldom fit perfectly. Finally, I don't need every woman in the world to be attracted to me. As it is, I have found the woman of my dreams, who is beautiful, smart, fun (and funny), kind, hard-working, honest, and so many other things. She is also quite dominant, and doesn't seem to have any real problems with me being submissive in some ways at some times. As long as she is ok with everything, why would I care if many or even most women wouldn't find this attractive, since I am not trying to attract them anyway?!?!

      -ZM

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    8. I want to second ZM's comments and expand on them a little. I have come to realize through this blog as well as reading widely on the internet plus some personal experience that men who desire/need to be spanked by their partner fall into two general groups: one is beta males who are submissive through most or all aspects of their personality and do long for female domination where spanking may be a part of it but isn’t essential. The prototype blog for this kind of man is probably FLR 101 which preaches female control with minimal corporal correction. The other type is the mostly alpha type that submits to a girlfriend or wife for discipline or correction in the process giving her authority he likely would cede to no one else. He is outwardly and in the everyday world an alpha male submissive only to his wife or girlfriend usually in privacy. These two types of men are very different psychologically and in their appeal to women. Many women ( but not all by any means) are turned off by a pure submissive who leans on them completely whereas many women find the alpha male that THEY can train to be interesting if not sexually desirable. Recognizing the difference between these two types of male is important and it seems to me many times we talk in generalities with making this important distinction. I would love to hear the thoughts of some of the women contributors on the topic
      Alan

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    9. Hi Alan. I agree with all this, and I see both those personality types reflected in commenters on this blog, though from the beginning I've seen it as a resource more for the "alpha" males, probably because I don't really understand the natural submissive. I ran a pole a few years ago asking whether people were dominant or submissive in the non-DD aspects of their life, and I was really surprised at how many defined themselves as natural followers.

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    10. Dan
      I do believe it is two separate communities although they may look very similar in their interaction with the women they have ceded authority too. Also and this sure applies to me, physical discipline at least as a credible threat is necessary to make it work. For the beta males, not so much as I read it. They can be controlled without spanking them.
      Alan

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  8. I think the parental experience prepares some to expect, need or desire sparking in an adult relationship. That certainly was my experience. I don’t believe I could sustain a long term intimate relationship without my partner taking responsibility as disciplinarian. I also believe initial adult experience is modeled roughly upon the parental experience. But whereas the parental experience can incorporate both love and discipline, the adult relationship includes erotic elements even if not acknowledged. And adult discipline is much more nuanced than anything I experienced at home. I offer a personal experience: with my former girlfriend we struggled with questions of authority and consistently early on and I remember thinking if she just learns to use her authority with confidence and consistency, she will control my bum (just as my mother did) and all will be well. But a year or so into our relationship she administered several spankings (well deserved) that unambiguously demonstrated her authority and willingness to use it. (Basically she spanked me when I REALLY didn’t want it and I realized that emotionally I could not stop her once she started to take my pants down. She really did “control my bum” The epiphany that produced for me was the realization that controlling my bum was really just a precondition to controlling my cock in our erotic relationship -something that was no part of the parental experience but a vital part of the adult experience. I told her essentially my insight and she understood it immediately even telling me she had planned to take control of my cock eventually but was waiting for the right time. (this prompted me to confess to her my masturbation problem something she did not know about at that point but made it easier for her to extend her authority from general behavior to include my sexual behavior. So my point is that whatever the influence of parental discipline (and apparently that varies quite a lot), that earlier experience is but a jumping off place for a mature adult DD relationship. Also for me at least adult spanking within a committed and consensual relationship has had a ton more influence on my behavior and attitude as well as my general confidence then did any discipline at home.
    Alan

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    1. Stories like this highlight for me the extent to which my DD desire centers not so much on spanking but on being deprived of control.

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    2. For me, it is more of a mixture of loss of control and spanking. Loss of control is a necessary part, but spanking or at least the threat/possibility of spanking is also a pretty necessary component. I have pretty much determined that I am a spanking fetishist, but it is REAL disciplinary spankings that really form the core of my fantasies, and everything else just plays supporting roles.

      -ZM

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    3. I'm not totally sure how to categorize mine, but while I am pretty sure I do not fit the pattern of a spanking fetishist, it's still undeniably a core part of the DD concept for me. I think the spanking and having control taken away are both necessary elements for me, but with the latter having a much greater influence. But, I do think both are relatively necessary. Spanking without the disciplinary component was something that I thought was sort of fun and the kinkiness was appealing but, in the end, I could take it or leave it. But, the kind of discipline Anton reports initially engaging in, which involved fines instead of spankings, almost certainly wouldn't have led to the obsession that overtook me when I read the Disciplinary Wives Club. And, FemDom divorced from the disciplinary context does nothing for me. I think the role the spanking plays is the prospect of REALLY losing control, i.e. crying, being taken way beyond my comfort zone, etc.

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  9. I've been having some conflicting memories on this issue and don't feel I have resolved my feelings sufficiently to lucidly explain how my past affected my present. I will say that I have two very distinct recollections of how punishments went (that seem to be age-based) and my views have probably been shaped by both in different ways.

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    1. Looking forward to hearing about it if you resolve the conflicts.

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    2. OK, things here have calmed down quite a bit since the scare with Rosa.I dropped her off at work a while ago. >Phew!<

      So, in thinking about this I recall three distinct periods from childhood where the style of discipline changed (to my mind)significantly. Although I doubt my parents saw it as being anything more than a natural development with age.

      My earliest memories of corporal punishment go WAY back to mild, but stingy, wooden spoon spankings on my bare bottom over my mother's lap, followed by cornertime. I recall one in particular so distinctly. However, not much longer after that, I recall both of my parents sharing the disciplinary load and opting to use an old, worn, buckle-less strap (that infamously resided on the inner knob of their bedroom door) over my clothes. Once they went to the strap I was no longer bared for any punishment. I recall my father had a method where he would take me to my room and had me on my bed on my back, and he would lift my legs up by my ankles and swish a few strokes across my clothed rear, and that was it. I still hated it though.

      The third phase was when I got even older (and taller) and they used other less corporal means most times, though my mother did on occasion 'hit' me. These were spontaneous anger/frustration-induced hits with whatever was handy. I recall one particular episode when I was about 14 where I was very defiant (because I was not wrong) and she got so mad, she started hitting me on the arm with some stick she had. And I just looked at her as she did it in the most "do what you want, I'm not backing down" expression I could muster. I recall she actually broke the skin in a few spots and then got upset that I wasn't giving in and seeing what she had done just started crying and left.

      So as you can see, there's a real range here. And that range contributed greatly to how I 'wanted' my spankings to go when I found someone at age 19 to do this with. I wanted hairbrush/paddle-type OTK true SPANKING. Not strapping, not anything else. I wanted the spanking to have a sort of formality to it. Baring, approaching, handing over the implement, and then getting it in a controlled, though possibly severe manner.

      I wanted nothing seemingly out-of-control or "sloppy". It could be as bad as my spanker might want, but it had to have........structure. I think this goes back to my earliest recollections. I remember in the one spanking I recall so distinctly, of my mother bringing a chair away from the table and pulling it to a spot nearer our stove. She had me go to a drawer (it was the middle one of three above the white enamel-painted cabinets). Then she pulled down my pants and had me go across her lap. I was crying before I ever even got in position. Then she smacked my bare bottom a few times until it stung and then sent me shuffling to the corner.

      Everything about that spanking seemed formalized, planned, and controlled. And that is still what I want to this this day. I so much resented the type of discipline that came later, even though it wasn't really severe. (As I said my Dad's style was swift, stingy, and then done in a few strokes. More to prove a point than to truly leave lasting pain. There was no counting. or set number of strokes. Or anything other than a quick comeuppance for whatever misbehavior prompted the punishment.)

      Now I feel like I have concocted a desired scenario that in some ways borrows from those earliest episodes with my mother...........and then also separates from them. (I was never naked for a punishment. Now I feel like it is the best state to be in. Those early spankings were never long or severe, but now I sort of prefer if mine are. She used to bare me, now I prefer to be told to prepare myself.) So it's like I'm recreating the aspects that I "liked" and adding elements that enhance those aspects even further.

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    3. I forgot to add that besides issues from my first marriage, I do believe the incident with the stick when I was 14 also led me to my position of "you can punish me until I can't sit....BUT I HAVE to be truly GUILTY of what I'm being punished for."

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    4. KD. Good descriptions! I envy your crystal-clear memories!

      -ZM

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    5. While I've thought that my childhood spanking experience had impact on my adult desires and preferences, you have me questioning that now in relation to tools. You wanted OTK spankings and not strappings, with a lot of formality, because that is what you associate with those early maternal spankings. I, on the other hand, don't recall ever getting an OTK spanking. And, where I grew up, other than at school (where the paddle was only instrument ever used), belts seem to have been by far the most common tool used by mothers and fathers alike. So, while paddles play a role in my DD thoughts because of the school connection, strappings with a belt are what really get me.

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    6. For me, paddles are by far the most "enticing" (for lack of a better word). I assume this was because of the school connection, and of course school spankings never occurred for me.

      Belts are a bit of a turn on, like especially pictures or videos of belts being removed. However, in practice I have not really found belt spankings to hurt all that much, despite all I have heard about them. As I said elsewhere, I know that my dad spanked me at least once with a belt, but while I remember the feelings about the event, I don't remember the feelings of the actual spanking. When my wife spanks with a belt or even a leather strap, it hurts but not like other things. Now a rubber strap, on the other hand, brings indescribable pain. But I am increasingly curious about what a proper strapping with either a belt or a strap would feel like, because I have a hard time reconciling what I have received with the fear and awe that others seem to have about belt spankings.

      -ZM

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  10. I agree with Alan that our adult DD relationships tend to be outgrowths of our childhood experiences. While one may be born gay, it is unlikely one is born with a spanking fetish!
    A husband who knows

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    1. While my own interest in adult spanking did not arise until well into my 30's, I'm not as sure that some aren't born with it in much the same way that homosexuality can be hardwired. I recently read a book entitled Sex With Shakespeare, written by a spanking fetishist and Shakespeare aficionado. I found her descriptions of the extent to which spanking was the very core of her sexual identity before she even knew what sex was to be very enlightening. I have no way to relate to her experience, but it made me think a lot about how, for at least some people, the spanking fetish may be just as immutable as sexual orientation. https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Shakespeare-Heres-Much-Pain-ebook/dp/B013CBG8AO/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1566278913&sr=8-1

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    2. I'm firmly in the camp of NO genetic dispositions toward needing spanking.

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  11. I agree that nobody is born with a speaking fetish as an inborn part of their sexuality as gays are. However it is possible that there is a genetic predisposition to it in the same way that there can be a genetic predisposition to becoming an artist or physician or engineer or musician etc IF exposed early enough to trigger the underlying genetic predisposition. Whether you are or are not a spanko may be a classic example of the combined effect of genetics and environment on the individual. That also explains the case of people like Dan who felt the spanking feelings well into adulthood. Something in his world triggered it. It also explains to me why quite a few women discover in middle age or later they have a passion for spanking much to their amazement. Something in their environment triggered it -usually a husband or boyfriend asking her for discipline - or perhaps a friend confiding her own disciplinary practices.
    Alan

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    1. Hi Alan. I agree in theory, though I'm not sure that what was triggered in me was a predisposition to spanking. What finding the DWC seemed to trigger for me was a desire to be controlled or, maybe more precisely, to be held accountable in a way that is as close as I can practically come to non-consensual. Several people have commented that one thing that distinguishes their relationships today from parental discipline is consent, but in a very real way I wish that I could replicate that non-consensual aspect, similar to the epiphany you describe above in discovering that in some sense you could not resist your girlfriend's discipline.

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    2. I have no idea whether I was born with this, whether it was due to some childhood events or experiences, or it is some combination of both. And I really doubt that anybody knows. It would require a huge study, which as far as I know of few have been done on this topic. All I can say is that it was very much a part of me before I had any clue about ANYTHING sexual. And I can say that I wasn't spanked more or harder, or necessarily less than what was "normal." I wasn't abused nor was I ignored. I did have a real lack of boundaries, but that was in my latter childhood and then my teen years. I think that by then, the spanking obsession was alive and well.

      One difficulty of trying to determine the origin of this is that even though all of us have wound up in the same place (at least at this blog, if not in DD/FLR aspects of our relationships), we might all be here for different reasons. If we were all identical or very similar in our desires, then we could quickly share our childhood experiences and see if we all have a common background, and if so, we might surmise that our desires were triggered by our experiences. If our backgrounds were significantly different, we might conclude that we are just "wired" this way.

      But though we have overlap in our desires, we are all very unique. Some of the people here are not in a DD/FLR relationship, but feel like they want to be. Some people crave boundaries and control, some people crave spanking and other corporal punishments, some people crave pain in any form, some people crave humbling or embarrassment, some people love the exchange of power, some people crave most anything kinky, some people just want a relationship that works better or to improve themselves. Most of us crave some combination of these, and maybe other things.

      Do we even know what we want? Would you still want DD if it involved no spanking or physical punishments (like only grounding, for example)? If you want spanking, do you mostly want the inherent humbling that comes with it, or must it be hard and with painful reminders? Do you want additional embarrassment and humiliation, or do you tend to minimize or even deny the existence of the "built-in" humiliation of DD, or must it be just spanking? etc. etc...

      Considering how different we all are, I wouldn't be quick to try to pinpoint the exact origin of our somewhat shared though never identical desires. A spanking fetish may have much different origins (whether in nature, nurture, or some mixture) than the desire for imposed boundaries.

      -ZM

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    3. Well said, ZM. Something that was a surprise to me when I first started running polls on the blog and asking "origins"-oriented topics was just how little pattern there is. At a very, very general level I think about half the men drawn to this are Alphas like myself who, for whatever reason, who aren't submissives in any traditional sense but who really crave boundaries and giving up control. I think the other half are more or less spanking fetishists and/or submissives who are naturally oriented toward this. But, in each of us the mixture varies. And, over the years of running those polls and eliciting these stories, I have never found the slightest evidence of a common environmental factor such as a strong or week mother, domineering or weak father, etc.

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  12. Or there could be no genetic predisposition, and "something in the environment" merely triggers a new interest. After all, it's not the same as an innate musical talent being triggered by exposure to music. My desire and ability to take a spanking is not a genetic gift!
    A husband who knows

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  13. Being punished by a sex partner is a much more complex, dynamic, intense and intimate relationship than being punished by a parent. With a parent I got an adrenaline rush of fear. With my wife I get an adrenaline rush of fear, excitement, embarrassment, sexual tension, and a few other things I can't even name. It is probably the most intense feeling I have ever experienced.
    Anton

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    1. That is all true. Though, while I don't recall very many childhood spankings, I assume they too involved significant embarrassment.

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    3. Exactly, Anton. In fact, I believe that for my wife and me, DD is effective precisely because she happens to be speaking to me through my deepest fantasy. Pretty hard not to listen!

      Dan, I agree about embarrassment. Though I don't remember much about childhood spankings, I am sure that the embarrassment was much more powerful than the actual spanking. This would be even more true in school punishments, which of course I grew up obsessed with but was never quite able to bring myself to experience, either from fear or because I didn't want to disappoint teachers and others by being bad. But for school punishments, it seemed that the whole school knew who had been sent to the office, how many swats they got, and how they took it.

      -ZM

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  14. My mother spanked my father, which I figured out by the time I was 10. I never saw it, but I sure did hear it, as he was not able to keep quiet when she took him to task.

    When I was 13, I asked my mother about it. She was startled but honest, and explained about how childish most men are and how they need female authority to keep them in line. She explained that it can work with some females, too, but that based on my only-child type-A personality I was not one of them, which is why she had never spanked me.

    Before I began dating, she talked to me about how to control my boyfriends to "make sure they behave," including corporal punishment. I spanked several boyfriends and of course both of my husbands. As my husband has related, after my first husband passed I went looking for a submissive boy to marry, and am very pleased with my whipping boy who participates here.

    Because I was not spanked as a child, I can't say much by way of comparing parental and marital spanking. But I will say that many marriages that end in divorce would not do so if the wife took up the paddle.
    The Wife Who Knows

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    1. Hi, Wife Who Knows. It is great that your mother was that honest with you. So far, my wife has not told our kids about that part of our life together, but I think she might be doing them a big favor by doing it.

      As an aside, I admire the program you put in place to deal with your husband's effort to lose weight. It gave me a lot to think about with respect to using an FLR to address bigger personal behavior issues.

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    2. Thanks, Dan, for the compliment on implementing my husband's weight loss program. We just past the six month mark and he has lost 59 pounds, well more than halfway! He looks and feels better and has more energy to do my bidding!

      Serious problems sometimes require draconian measures. Involving his supervisor at work was the hardest for him, as I imagine it would be for you, Dan. But it was entirely necessary and has been very effective. He went out to lunch with co-workers once and into the snack room once and I was notified by his boss's secretary both times! Each resulted in a week's banishment to the spare bedroom, which he absolutely hates, plus he had to apologize to his boss and secretary for involving them in his personal issues. Talk about embarrassment!

      But overall I am extremely proud of him, and there is no question that widening the circle of those monitoring him (boss, doctor, sponsor, family, therapist, OA members) has been a huge help to me. The hairbrush can't do everything!

      The Wife Who Knows

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    3. That loss is great. Meantime, I struggle to take off even a few pounds. Unfortunately, bringing my bosses and co-workers into things likely wouldn't help, since they are a major part of the problem!

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    4. Similar to the household I grew up in. My father was alive until I was four and, given the small sizes of dwellings in the area I grew up, it was hard not to be aware that my mother was spanking him. She wanted my brothers and I to be self-sufficient quickly, so taking discipline was a way of life for us (for whatever reason, not my sisters as well). I got married, but it happened to be as part of this mass wedding: - https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/01/asia/india-wedding-bats-trnd/index.html . As a result, spanking has continued since I got married that day. It didn't (and still doesn't) seem out-of-place, having grown up with spanking. Other men I knew who took part in that mass wedding who didn't grow up with spanking found it harder to adjust to.

      In terms of how my marital spankings differ from the ones I got at home, my wife and I moved to a different country after getting married where homes tend to be bigger and walls more soundproofed, so we are less worried about being heard. My mother tended to be clinical about the spankings, whereas my wife regards them as part of intimacy, even if they have a disciplinary purpose.

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    5. Hmm. Very interesting. Is adult spanking common in India?

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    6. Involving bosses or coworkers is a compelling idea. I can't see an easy way to bring it about, however, without being too open, which I would consider inappropriate unless I absolutely knew that they wouldn't mind since it would fit into the "too much information" category.

      I guess if the wife happened to be friends with either the husbands boss or co-workers, then she could probably casually inquire about what her husband was like at work, or if they became close enough, the wife might even say "we are working on some issues he has" like perhaps with punctuality or attitude and then kind of conspiratorially say something like "maybe you could keep me in the loop about how he is doing" or something like that without directly saying that she punishes him. Obviously, if you are willing to share about spanking and punishment and so on and be completely open and out there, that would work too, but I think that it would be unfair to put bosses or co-workers (or anyone for that matter) in that position without knowing that they were good with it.

      Anyway, bravo that you seem to have found a way to do this!

      -ZM

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    7. I agree. I really wish there was some way for my wife to have someone at work who would rat me out about bad behavior, but I don't think that's realistic. It sounds like in this particular case it worked because the issue was health related, and I and see how it might seem appropriate to enlist help among caring bosses and co-workers to address a behavioral issue that could have a major health impact.

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    8. Yes, I agree that being health-related made it seem more natural, especially since we get health coverage through my employer. What did not seem natural is that my wife initiated and basically ran the meeting, while I mostly sat there quietly. There was absolutely no doubt who wears the pants in my family, and that was rather embarrassing. Everyone agreed that the involvement of my boss and others was in my best interests, and indirectly theirs.
      Interestingly, I don't feel embarrassed around my male boss but I do feel embarrassed around the female secretary who has actually made the phone calls to report my misbehavior. I don't know what my wife has said to her, but it is likely she has made some euphemistic reference to punishment, like, "Oh, he will get consequences for going in the snack room." The secretary is too professional to let on about anything, but it's going on in my head such that I can't make eye contact.

      In your case, Dan, is it obvious that your problem affects your work? If so, it might make sense to approach a co-worker, either by yourself or with your wife.
      A husband who knows

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    9. It is interesting that you feel embarrassed about the female secretary but not the male boss. I think it would be the opposite for me, but it's hard to know until you're in that situation.

      Unfortunately, I don't think there is a viable route to someone taking on that role at work. The challenge is two-fold, because I would say there are two "problems." The first is the productivity hit that I personally attach to drinking too much. The issue is, no, it isn't an obvious thing to most people and, worse, many of the people around me are worse than I am. If anything, I get a lot of credit for being a big business developer, partially as a result of all those drinks and dinners with potential customers. The other problem is what most would probably call "insubordination," i.e. I'm very vocal when I don't agree with something, and can have a temper. The issue with someone ratting me out on that one is peers don't tend to see it because I never "punch down" and, frankly, none of the senior people who are even arguably "above" me in the pecking order have any relationship with my wife and most aren't local.

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    10. You obviously aren't being insubordinate enough to get fired - and some bosses like vocal dissent - yet you clearly feel you are misbehaving at work in a way that needs to be reported to your disciplinarian. What would someone reporting say to your wife that would likely result in punishment?
      A husband who knows

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    11. I would phrase it a bit differently. I think for my organization, people are either "more trouble than they are worth," or their perceived worth exceeds whatever trouble they create. So, far, I seem to be in the latter category. Also, we are one of those organizations in which it's not always clear who is subordinate to whom. It's kind of like Don Draper in Mad Men -- if you work for someone but you bring in a lot of what makes the organization successful and could walk out at any time, then really who works for whom? In terms of what reporting would look like, there are really three things that probably *should* result in discipline whether at work or home:

      (1) Temper and lack of patience with others, whether directed up or down. I try really, really hard not to "punch down," but it wasn't quite true when I said above that it "never" happens. It's rare, but it can happen, especially if I'm dealing with someone who is being kind of mindless rule follower and getting in the way of getting something done. But, if it someone a lot lower than me in the pecking order, losing my temper or being rude to someone in those circumstances is something I really wish someone would rat me out for.
      (2) Failure to keep up on some required paperwork and reporting. There is one task that is fundamental to how we get paid, but that I just absolutely hate. I'm always behind and, while it doesn't impact the organization much, it means I spend a lot of evenings and weekends playing catch up. It would be great if someone told my wife, "BTW, he's a week behind again in turning in X report . . ."
      (3) Getting snotty with bureaucracy from "on high." This is a variant of (1), but I really do have a problem dealing with entrenched foolishness and, while it's fine to bring it up, I tend to do it snarky, sarcastic ways.

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    12. Adult spanking is reasonably common in India: - women tend to have a large amount of physical strength from tasks such as beating carpets, plus men tend to be badly behaved and therefore need to be kept in line! It is one of those societies that are outwardly patriarchal, but where the wife wields a large amount of influence in the home.

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  15. Dan, I grew up in a family where punishments were erratic and violent . Not traditional ritualized spanking . When I was dating my wife her mother asked me if my mother had ever taken my pants down and tanned my butt. When I answered that she had not , her response was that it showed . I was surprised by the question and a bit embarrassed , and also surprised by her comment. My wife grew up with a very clear set of rules and if they were violated she was spanked. It was a large family and the gurus sere spanked OTK bare with a wooden spoon. The boys were made to cut a switch and wait for their mom pants down . There was never any doubt about the consequences of breaking rules. I have posted before about being spanked as a young adult by my wife’s mom. I have wondered for years why when she told me she was going to spanking me I complied. I think I knew I had it coming and I was in some way curious S I had heard the family stories. As I was waiting for her after the she told me she was going to teach me respect , I was strangely excited. I don’t think I knew what a spanking fetish was,. Any idea I had of it being exciting or interesting went away the first time the strap landed. It was with the perspective of time a pretty harsh spanking a while after I composed myself I felt somehow cleansed and the spanking seemed just. It was embarrassing and really shocking but I felt like a member of my new family.

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    1. Hi Bart. I know it was probably very embarrassing at the time, but every time you tell that story it is arousing, perhaps because of my attraction to the whole "business like" approach. She told you what was going to happen and then did it, simply presuming you would comply.

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  16. Hi Dan,
    Here are my answers to this weeks questions:

    1)Compare the discipline you got from your parents with the discipline you get from your wife (or give to your husband). How are they alike and different?

    Like you, I don’t have any memories of my mom spanking me, though I know she did. Presumably it was just because they weren’t that hard, it was too early in my life (I am not sure how old I was when she last spanked me, but I think pretty young), or it was before a traumatic event happened in our lives (I have very, very few memories of anything before that, so either they were erased or suppressed). I only have memory of one time that my dad spanked me, which too was with a belt, and all I remember from that is that I was really pushing his buttons, but just playing, and suddenly I had pushed too far and I remember the feeling of fear and dread when he decided to spank me. I remember it was with a belt, but really don’t remember anything else from it, other than the feeling of having pushed too far and something that was a game to me turning into something very real.

    With my wife, everything is completely different. First off, I have asked her to do this. The disciplinary relationship is consensual, though individual punishments are at her sole discretion. This consensuality is obviously the biggest difference, since I don’t remember ever consenting to parental spanking. :-)

    I would say that my wife obviously punishes me much, much harder than my parents ever thought of, but due to the increased mental and physical strength that comes with being an adult, the spankings are probably less impactful emotionally than parental spankings might have been. A lot of emotional walls have been built over the years, and they are not easily broken down.

    2)Which has been more effective?

    It depends on what you define as “effective.” If you are referring to changing behavior, then probably parental spankings - and threats thereof - were more effective. However, as I have said before, I think that changing behavior is only one VERY small part of the “effectiveness” of DD. And it is these other results that DD is the clear winner over parental discipline. I won’t go into much detail, since each is worthy of a blog posting, but just some of the positive results of DD are greatly increased closeness and intimacy, reduction in accumulated irritations which could lead to resentment, better communication between us, more closure, more sincere remorse and forgiveness, better sex life, more thoughtfulness on my part, ability to vent feelings on her part, etc. While some of these are manifest in parental discipline, others are exclusive to DD or amplified in DD by virtue of the inherent sexuality combined with consent.

    3)Which do you prefer?
    Hands down, I prefer DD. Having said that, while I really, really want and need DD, I still certainly don’t welcome punishments. In fact, I am always more than happy to delay them or avoid them completely. But then I find myself also craving them, so overall I like DD much more at all times except right before or during a punishment.

    -ZM

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  17. Hi Dan,
    I have already weighed in on many of the conversations this week, but did want to briefly comment on the maternal thing. For me, spanking does involve a lot of maternal and "naughty little boy" feelings, and my wife has said that when she is punishing me, she feels that it is often very maternal. Having said that, I have never thought of spanking or DD as having anything to do with MY mom. It is the role, not the person, that fits into all the scenarios in my head.

    If you were to look at my computer, you would see a whole lot of pictures that have either a maternal vibe or a school vibe. I think that maybe that is at least in part because I considered those punishments to be most "real," compared to something being dished out by some sort of dominatrix that is really more of an actress.

    Anyway, I didn't really have anything to add right now on this, but I do find the maternal aspects of spanking very compelling, and hope we find chances to discuss it more, since I find that I continue to learn a lot about myself and my desires and feelings from reading and participating in the discussions we have here!

    -ZM

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    1. That's a great way of putting it -- I have come around to DD having something to do with the maternal, but not with MY mom. Now, that said, I recounted a few months ago a dream I had about my mother pulling over a car to spank me. So, perhaps there is something more regarding buried in my psyche after all.

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  18. What are the differences? I have to compare my own experience, since husband was never spanked as a child. His parents took things away from him.

    When I got spanked as a kid, I didn't understand the spanking was being given to let me know my disobedience had consequences. As a disciplinarian, this is what I'm letting husband know. If he disobeys me, there will be consequences.

    I didn't understand it was to change my behavior. That's wound up with the first thing. I spank husband because I want him to change his behavior. If he behaves like I want him to, he won't get spanked.

    The only benefit my parents ever got out of spanking me was a change in my behavior. They didn't like using it to change my behavior, or my brother's, but they felt sometimes it was all they could do. I get so many more benefits from spanking husband.

    I used to think my parents liked to spank me. That wasn't true. There, i'm going to say it, I actually enjoy disciplining husband.


    My parents didn't have any rituals, really. You got questioned, lectured then either over the knee or bend over. Rituals are an important part of me disciplining husband.

    Humbling wasn't deliberate when My parents spanked me or my brother, but, if the occasion was there, they didn't hesitate to use it, especially for my brother. It was funny how his friends used to show up at our door right after he'd gotten a spanking. Humbling husband is an important part of my disciplinary process.

    There's the sexual element to it, too. That wasn't there with my parents, but it is for me especially, but for him, too. I won't go into too much detail about that, in case I start sounding like I'm writing pornography.

    How is it the same?


    There's the actual spanking.

    Just like my brother and me submitted to my parents' authority, husband submits to mine.

    Tears. Those didn't come right away with husband, but now, they come every time. I'm still working on getting the pre-spanking tears, like my brother and me. We knew when we were getting our lecture a spanking was going to follow, so, toward the end of it, the sniffling used to start and the tears came. I've heard trembling in husband's voice when he answers me during his lecture, but haven't seen the tears, yet.

    I let him know why he's going to be disciplined just like my parents did with me and my brother. There's never just the spanking and "You know what you did" like happened with some of my friends. My parents made sure we knew why we were getting spanked.

    Acknowledging being bad. We had to acknowledge what we did was bad. I make husband acknowledge he disobeyed me and what the consequence of disobedience is.

    I also employ something similar to how husband's parents disciplined him. They deprived him of things. It was nothing like food, clothing or anything like that, they took away things or activities he enjoyed and gave him chores. I use chastity (it deprives him of something he REALLY enjoys) and chores, besides the spankings.

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    1. FWIW, I think many women enjoy disciplining their husbands, or end up doing so even if it doesn't necessarily start out that way. That doesn't really surprise me, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

      When you say your brother's friends would show up, do you mean your parents would invite them over? Spanking was so prevalent where I grew up, I don't think parents ever tried to make sure that friends or relatives knew about a spanking but they hardly had to. It was not at all uncommon to be at a public function, act up, be taken to a semi-private place, spanked, and taken back.

      Let me know if you find the prescription that leads to your husband's tears. In 14 or 15 years, I haven't found it.

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    2. I too experienced being at a public function, acting up, being taken to a semiprivate place to be punished - with semiprivate meaning my bare bottom would not be on display but the sounds of spanking were likely to be heard - and brought back to face the public with FOUR very red cheeks.

      That moment, of appearing in front of others who know I just got spanked, is the ultimate embarrassment - which I began craving in my 40s and my wife has been all too willing to accommodate. Maybe those childhood experiences led to my late-developing streak of exhibitionism, seeking the excitement of humiliation that I used to abhor.
      A husband who knows

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    3. I don't think my parents invited them over, they just happened to show up. It's something like Murphy's law or when you don't want to see someone, that's exactly when they come.

      For the pre-spanking tears, I just think it's another barrier for me to break down. It took me a while to break down the barrier against the tears when I'm actually spanking him, and i think it was more an emotional than physical barrier, but breaking the physical barrier broke the emotional. The first tears came when I got a new implement I call the Brown Spanking Paddle. It't the implement husband still fears the most. Sometimes, he's even begged for chastity instead of the Brown Spanking Paddle (and he hates disciplinary chastity). The first time I used it on him, the tears came. Now, no matter what I use on him, even the implements I used before, he cries when I spank him. So there was an emotional barrier, but I broke it down by getting thru a physical one.

      I don't know if I can break down that barrier against pre-spanking tears like that. I've thought about having the implement I'm going to use in my hand while I give him his pre-spanking lecture and waving it or tapping something with it while I'm making my points. Every time I tell him to bring me the Brown Spanking Paddle, he really begs me not to use it but to use something else or give him chastity. I get more begging over it than anything else. Maybe I should have it in my hand. I'll try it and see. He's overdue for a Disciplinary Session anyhow.

      I haven't had much energy in the last weeks of my pregnancy and since the baby came. Husband has been the best the whole time. In the last weeks of my pregnancy, he came home with take out every day so I wouldn't have to cook (he's a disaster in the kitchen). After that, he went upstairs, put on his makeup and a maid dress and waited on me hand and foot until it was time to go to bed. He did it on his own.
      During the first part of that time, I tried having some ladies close to me, who have seen him get spanked, discipline him for disobeying My Rules, but, in the end, it just didn't work out. I'm sure he's disobeyed some of My Rules since then, but, I'm not going to discipline him for it just yet. I'm getting my energy back and will be going back to work, soon, so I'm going to let him know that as of a certain date, I will start enforcing My Rules, again. He'll probably ask if he can get out of being disciplined for what he did before I announce this and I'll probably agree to it.

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  19. Possible topic: the Confession Challenge. Dan, above you reveal three work behaviors your disciplinarian does not know about. And you did so knowing that your wife reads your blog.
    Repeat that confession and challenge the rest of us to confess behaviors our disciplinarian does not know about for which we likely would be punished.
    Challenge Part 2: Challenge each of us to read our confession to our disciplinarian! Then report back here what happens!
    A husband who knows

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    1. To clarify, she does know at a general level about those three work behaviors, independently of reading this blog. She just doesn't always know about specific instances of that conduct. But, I am feeling particularly lazy today, so I'm happy to use that topic idea.

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  20. "Confessional Sessions" were the most popular of activities in Aunt Kay's Gathering events (group events). In those cases men submitted a written confession to Aunt Kay and she studied them and assigned them to one of the other wives who then took appropriate action. It was super-cool.

    I mention that to support the power of a formally prepared confession document.

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  21. Danielle here:

    I don’t have much time for posting these days. Among other things keeping me busy, I am training a new puppy, which is WAY more work than training a husband. ;-)

    But I want to add my 2 cents to this topic. I think there is an inescapable maternal vibe when a wife spanks a husband, and I think you are right, Dan, that many women reject DD because they don’t want to be a mother to their husband. There was an element of that in my initial rejection of my husband’s desire for DD and FLR.

    My mother occasionally smacked my bum when I was a kid, and I occasionally smacked my boys’ bums while they were growing up. But in neither case were spankings a major production. They really only added a bit of emphasis to other consequences, like loss of privileges or curtailment of allowance, etc.

    I was never spanked after puberty, and I never spanked my boys after puberty. In fact, I stopped spanking both boys simultaneously when the oldest one reached puberty. I felt there would be an inappropriate element of sexual shaming in spanking teenaged boys, and other consequences worked just as well. Now that I think of it, the discovery of my husband’s spanking fetish. It was at about that time that Wayne asked for DD, and I knew his desire to be spanked was sexual. That increased my consciousness that spanking teenaged boys would be inappropriately sexual.

    When I finally agreed to DD and FLR, I embraced the maternal aspect of it. I see FLR as maternal because the wife’s authority over her husband is analogous to a mother’s authority over her children. I guess my FLR is more maternal than many of the DD relationships people here have for a couple of reasons. First, my authority is not limited by some sort of agreement about “spanking infractions.” I decide when discipline is needed and what form it will take. Second, I don’t limit consequences to spanking, but add the kinds of consequences I used to discipline my sons when they were teens.

    But there are a couple of big differences between disciplining a husband and disciplining sons, as I see it. First is the element of sexual shaming. I stopped spanking my sons before they reached an age where I felt it would be sexually shaming. But with my husband, sexual shaming is part of the point of a spanking. Additionally, I spank my husband more harshly than I would ever have spanked my sons, even though I am a very moderate spanker by the standards of most of the people here. Let’s face it, if any mother spanked her children the way most of you guys here say you “need” to be spanked, or even the somewhat less severe way I sometimes spank Wayne, that would be child abuse. Or so it seems to me. It isn’t abuse with a husband, as I see it, because it is a consensual part of an FLR couple’s sex life.

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    1. Hi Danielle. Glad to see you are still with us. I was worried you dropped out entirely. Congratulations on the new puppy. You're right that training them is a lot of work, but so worth it in the end. I am a dog guy, and we are presently going through one of the few times in my adult life in which I don't have one, and it's just killing me.

      Our DD relationship is similar to yours in that there isn't some formal list of infractions that are spankable, and her authority isn't limited to spanking. But, in practice, it seems to be the same things that get me spanked over and over, and she doesn't dole out a lot of non-spanking punishments. I do think that wanting more of that kind of exercise of authority is part of what I am craving when I say I want to be subjected to authority with a parental vibe.

      BTW, if you do have any spare time and are open to it, shoot me an email. I wanted to update you off-line about an exchange we had a few weeks ago.

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  22. Danielle,
    Puppies are so much fun, so I do hope that you enjoy yours! Having said that, WE MISS YOU!!!! So make sure to pop in and pay us a visit when you can!

    Your comment was great, and I totally agree about the maternal thing. I think it is pretty much exactly the same for my wife, including her ready use of things additional to spanking and generally trying to increase the embarrassment factor.

    -ZM

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