Sunday, July 14, 2019

The Club - Meeting 304 - Leverage


“Most modern freedom is at root fear. It is not so much that we are too bold to endure rules; it is rather that we are too timid to endure responsibilities.” ― G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships, mainly of the Female/male variety.  I hope you had a good week.

Sorry for the delayed posting.  I had one of those Saturdays in which you spend the whole day catching up on all those little “to do list” items that have stayed on your list for months and finally built to critical mass, including catching up on some family connections.  So, it was one of those days where I needed to put the blog in its place.  Between yesterday and a busy Friday, I also got a little behind responding to comments on last week’s topic.  Though, in all candor the comments were starting to drift anyway into some fairly BDSM-y and Femdom territory, which I don’t plan to reply to in any event. 

As for those comments last week that were on point, while it was subtle I thought that our discussions about others knowing and participating in our Domestic Discipline lifestyles may have evidenced a slight or not so slight evolution among the group over the last two or three years.  When I’ve raised these topics in the past, there tended to be a very small number of people who had brought others into their lifestyle and were “out” to one degree or another, and a whole bunch of others who categorically rejected the notion of bringing anyone else into this thing we do in any way, shape or form.   

That dynamic among our group seems to have changed a bit, with more people saying they have not done it in the past but might be open to it under the right circumstances.  There also seem to be a larger sub-set who are into extending anonymous discussions on blogs and websites like this into some more open and interactive form of communication, whether live meetings or something less than that but still less anonymous.  We’ll have to see how that develops over time.

Something that didn’t arise from last week’s comments was a clear idea for a new topic.  So, given my own lack of inspiration today, I’m stuck rehashing one from about a year ago.  About this time last year, I brought up an article I read in the New York Times about an “empowerment” coaching movement with a salacious angle.  It began with publicity that a Smallville actress who was arrested for allegedly acting as a recruiter for a sex cult.  I didn’t pay a lot of attention to the initial coverage, but then the New York Times posted a long investigative piece about it entitled The Sex Cult That Preached Empowerment:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/magazine/sex-cult-empowerment-nxivm-keith-raniere.html.  I found it a fascinating read, even though, its title notwithstanding, there was very little discussion of sex.  Admittedly, a lot of it sounded like a pretty typical Amway business model and possibly a pyramid scheme, in which current members were incented to bring in members under them all for the benefit of those on top.  But, as a whole it sounded like more cultish Tony Robbins-like “personal power” guru founding a group comprised of a bunch of "life coaches" and their students, finding new and interesting ways to encourage self-improvement via  personalized consequences and—here is the key—those consequences were designed to be strict enough, hard enough, embarrassing enough to motivate an actual positive behavioral change.  These consequences were often described as pledging “collateral” or otherwise coming up with agreed-upon “leverage” to encourage the member to actually live up to their commitments or achieve their performance goals.

 
 The leverage they created included things like pledging "collateral" in one form or another, such as giving the leaders of the group a letter admitting to some embarrassing or illegal act (it isn’t clear whether these were acts they had actually committed).  If the performance goals were met or the commitment fulfilled, the “collateral” would not be sacrificed and the person would not suffer any detriment.  They also used group consequences for individual failures. For example, if John set a goal of running every day and he failed to do it on Monday, then on Tuesday all the men in John's assigned support group might have to give up their morning coffee.  Knowing that others might pay a price for his failure would presumably give John a greater incentive to do what he pledged to do.  Many of the "motivators" seem to be about raising the consequences of failing to such a high degree that the person was left highly, highly motivated not to fail.

Now, as the trial progressed, it became clear that at the top of the organization, there was a substantial sexual overlay and not a few Dominance/submission attributes, including "Master" and "slave" titles.  And, some of the “collateral” may have been used to enforce submission and service (sexual and otherwise) to the group’s leader, who was convicted after a half-day of jury deliberation.  So, to be clear, I am not condoning any non-consensual activity, let alone anything criminal.  While definitely more extreme that what most of us are doing, however, he parallels to wives using unconventional and sometimes "hard" means to coach and mentor us was intriguing.  Because for those of us who are using DD to try to improve ourselves and accomplish more or break bad habits, that is what DD is about, right  -- gaining sufficient leverage to get over those impediments that get in the way of meeting your goals?

This week’s topic is a little broad but, in a nutshell it is, for those who are using Domestic Discipline to improve their performance, meet goals, eliminate bad habits or foster good ones, what lengths have you gone to—or would you be prepared to go to—to bring about actual change?  Spanking is obviously the “go to” performance motivator for most of our participants, but what if a single or maybe even multiple spankings are not doing the trick?  


What is the solution for making the improvement happen, whether he likes it or not? Or, is his “liking” a condition on the entire arrangement that prevents her from taking it to a level that he might not like but actually would be effective?  What amount of authority do you wives have to crank things up to a level that actually results in real behavioral change?  This additional “leverage” or “collateral” could take a lot of forms.  We talked last week about bringing others into the relationship or telling others that he is a Disciplined Husband. Or, perhaps just a public consequence for a public offense. For those husbands who actually fear such embarrassment, is that an option she can or should explore?   

 Or, maybe there are additional “let the punishment fit the crime” kind of punishments she might impose above and beyond spanking?  Or, is really changing habits or meeting goals within a DD relationship merely a matter of consistency and severity?


As I said, this is a little nebulous and open-ended, but that’s what happens on a lazy Sunday when I’m lacking both motivation and inspiration!

Have a great week.

105 comments:

  1. The sole reason I asked my wife to discipline me was to improve areas of behavior that upset her or upset others. Spanking the bare buttocks was the sole remedy agreed upon. However, when violations occurred, my wife was the sole determinant of the instruments to be used, the length of the punishment, making sure it would be painful enough to correct that behavior. Repeat behavioral occurrences would generate more severe spanking, and finally spankings on consecutive days. In my case I learned pretty fast no improve my behavioral flaws. Although I was spanked as a kid, I had no idea my wife could deliver spankings that were far more intense than anything I had experienced before. I am a strong alpha male who proposed DD to my wife to improve our marriage. It made sense to empower my wife in this way as without that power I wasn't able to control bad behavior, much of which caused her to be very upset with me causing heated arguments, not speaking to each other, etc. etc. My wife accepted my DD proposal as a positive step in my willingness to improve and she liked the idea, did some reading on the subject including the DWC stories, and thereafter had no problem dishing out punishment that quickly corrected most of my bad habits and behavior. She also realized that consistency in enforcement was necessary to get the improvement she wanted. I'm still the alpha male and have no FLR arrangement, but she, for the most part, corrected with effective spankings behavioral issues that I agreed with her needed correction. She helped me be a better person and is a happy wife, and I have become a happy husband.

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    1. That's two votes so far for consistency combined with multiple spankings on consecutive or near-consecutive days.

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  2. While measures like inviting female friends to witness and participate in the spankings is probably a very effective method, I really think the easiest and most direct way to improve behavior is increasing the length, severity and frequency of the spankings. If 50 swats on the bare butt doesn’t do it, then 100 swats for 3 days in a row should remedy that! If that fails, then two sessions per day of 100 swats, etc. As long as the swats are hard and painful (i.e. full force), it should definitely improve a husband’s attitude and performance.

    I have been doing very well but this week I gained weight. My beautiful wife will soon be delivering a severe scorching to my bare butt. It will hurt but it will definitely give me an incentive to eat healthy this week. And I love her for it

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    1. I too am currently trying to lose weight, but it's something I've been reluctant to ask her to address via spanking, because I feel like it's something I should be able to address without that kind of help. But, if that does not prove to be the case, I might rethink things.

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    2. I think most people get this one wrong. In my opinion (and what works for hubby) is that the spanking should actually be a reward for continuing in the program, but delivered as if it was a disciplinary spanking for not doing enough. I wrote a blog about it not too far back: https://strictjuliespanks.blogspot.com/2019/02/fat-loss-and-spanking.html

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    3. Dan:

      Of course you “should” be able to lose weight without the threat of spankings. So should I. But the only thing to actually GET me to lose weight (21 pounds so far this year!!) is the knowledge that I will get a very hard spanking if I don’t lose a pound every 3 or 4 days. I recommend you try it too.

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    4. David: I may need to resort to that. I thought I did pretty well on diet and working out over the last week. Got on the scale for the first time in four days. Up .2 lbs.

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    5. Hi Julie. I don't think that would work for me, but only because unlike a lot of guys here, spanking as a reward (or for fun), just doesn't do anything for me.

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    6. Hi Julie (and Dan),
      I can enjoy getting spanked for fun, unlike Dan, but play spankings are usually quite mild. On the other hand, I want discipline spankings to be as real as possible. Consequently, though I may CRAVE discipline, when it actually comes I NEVER want it at the time. So for me, the idea of rewarding me with a discipline style spanking just wouldn't work at all.

      -ZM

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  3. My wife decided before we were married that spankings may help because of her previous marriage with an abusive cheating and alcoholic husband. Most of my spankings are in private but she will spank in front of witnesses if needed. One day a couple of her friends were over and I was rude to them and offended them so my wife decided to discipline me in front of them. After my spanking I apologized to my wife then she told me to go apologize to her friends which I did. I was never rude to her friends again.

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  4. When we began our disciplinary relationship, neither of us was too confident that real behavioral change would result. In the beginning I was disciplined for relatively minor offenses like spilling food on my shirt or eating before my wife. She selected these roles, not because they were behaviors she particularly disliked, but because I was almost certain to break them frequently which would give us both experience with punishment.

    Most importantly we agreed that to be effective, observation and consequences had to be consistent. It took some time before each and every violation of the simple rules resulted in a spanking for me. Because she was new to this, my wife was not spanking in a very meaningful way when we started. Nonetheless, when punishment became the inevitable consequence of breaking a rule, something surprising happened: I stopped spilling food and I always waited for her to start eating before I began.

    I didn't make this change consciously. It took us some time to realize that I was getting very few spankings. When we finally figured out that my behavior had changed, we were both very surprised.

    The real objective of our disciplinary relationship is to empower my wife so that she knows I am expected to respect her wishes and do what she tells me. I don't mean this in the BDSM sense. My wife has a very accepting personality and has always been more likely to not say anything when I do something that upsets her. I was very motivated to find a way to give her the leverage she needs to make her wishes known. Our disciplinary relationship seemed to be a very good tool.

    Over the time she has been enforcing these rather trivial rules, she's turned into a very effective disciplinarian. Her spankings are painful and memorable. Still, we both felt that they aren't memorable enough. About a month ago, the rules changed. If I am to be punished, I get a minimum of three spankings a day apart; more if the offense is serious enough. That way, my offense and punishment remain centerstage for a much longer time.

    This has turned out to be much more effective than a single session no matter how severe. I am not told how many consecutive days of spanking I will receive. I do know that if I break a rule, get punished, and then break it again after a short time, I can expect a long series of painful spankings. I find that a very effective deterrent.

    As I see it, consistent enforcement, at least in my case, will result in changed behavior. I will be conditioned away from repeating my offense. This is apparently unrelated to have severe or mild the punishment is that I receive.

    On a conscious level, multi-day spankings raise my awareness dramatically. As early as the second day, I am feeling deeply repentant. Of course, that makes no difference, I will be painfully spanked repentant or not. I find it very difficult to dismiss as not very serious, a series of daily spankings for a single offense. That, my friends, is solid leverage.

    Two Dan's other point, I like the idea of losing some of my anonymity. I welcome one-on-one conversations. I am happy to take ownership of what I write here and elsewhere.

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    1. I'm not surprised that consistency and severity in the form of multiple spankings succeeds where single spankings might fail. I also am sure it was wise to focus on small things first, and I'm sure some of us set ourselves up for failure by doing the reverse.

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  5. A few months ago I wrote about me and my wife, the reluctant spanker. Well, reluctant no more! Since then she has expanded her authority in changing my behavior to include punishments (rypically fines and spankings) and rewards (typically sexual). She announced to me in bed one day, "Pussy must be earned." While she considers this a reward system (I do what she wants and if so get to have intercourse with her), to me it feels like a new punishment (she withholds sex unless I do her bidding). Funny how we see it differently! But regardless, when i am hesitant to do her bidding, she will say, "Well, you could have a severe spanking and no pussy tonight, or you could have great pussy and no spanking. Which will it be?" It's pretty obvious what I should do, and very effective at changing my behavior!
    She also has begun initiating "cock talks," usually in the mornings. She got this off a site about women not doing housework any more. I will wake up to her manipulating me! Of course I find that most enjoyable. When I am in an excited state, she will start talking to me about the day and what she wants me to accomplish. In my aroused state, I agree to virtually anything! She always stops short of completion, saying she is leaving me with the "energy" to accomplish my tasks or to change my behavior. And it works! I am randy for her all day and want to do what i promised her. Even if there is no promise of further "reward."
    Of course when I fail I get punished, often a spanking or a fine or both. She does use an escalating system for repeat behaviors: larger fines, harder spankings, and several spankings for the same offense. I recently got spanked six days in a row for being rude, which is one of my chronic behaviors. By the fourth day my bottom was in quite a state. Plus there is no sex during this time. It really "hits home" with the message.
    I have asked my wife about posting here and she said she would consider it.
    Anton

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    1. My wife would need to put one of those "cages" on me if she did that.....lol.....i wouldn't be able to not "finish the job"...lol

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    2. Hi Anton. Good to hear she moved beyond the monetary fines and from reluctance into outright enthusiasm

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    4. I would love for us to meet a couple or two who could give us some pointers. Are there any signs or key words DD couples use to look for?

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  6. Coincidentally the topic of sequential spankings came up with Nickki before I even saw this post. She seemed to like the idea too. As I've written before and others here seem to attest to as well, the sequential series of spankings clearly sends a message that even the most serious single punishment can't.

    Preventives are another method to ensure an actual change, and they seem to work as well.....though timing as a couple frenetically prepares to go out doesn't always allow for one.

    But, also as I've written before, CHANGING behavior is not as easy as finding the magic spanking technique to do it. It all depends on the behavior. The behaviors that upset Rosa early on that were well within my power to change, changed a long time ago. Consequently, the types of behavior I am most often still guilty of are likely to ever change, though they have been tempered a bit. So for these offenses, punishment is more of a strategy for the offended parties to let go of anger or resentment, or feelings of having no say, and giving them a tangible proof-positive outlet for their feelings. There is probably more immediate success in that regard than in holding out a hope that a person with a particular ingrained flaw is miraculously going to morph into a new person because of a pink bottom or add-on punishment.

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    1. I can understand how sequential spankings should send a message, though the few times we have done it, there was less of an impact (on my behavior, not on my ass) than I had been anticipating. But, we did only two days. If it got up to three or four . . .

      We've only done "preventaives" a couple of times, and I will attest those did keep my attention for longer than any "after the fact" spanking has really done.

      I've come to the same conclusion that for hard-wired habits or personality traits, the spanking may be as much or more about "payback" than any real hope of bringing about a sustained behavioral change. And, if that helps the overall relationship and gives her a better outlet than pouting, flouncing or leaving, I'm good with that.

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    2. My wife discovered the value of the "preventative" (or "you better be behave") spanking early on in her spanking career - and I still receive a few every year, especially if we are going to visit certain of her relatives (or if they are coming to visit). And I, too, have found them to be quiet effective - especially since my ass is invariably sore during the visit. --al

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    3. I had thrown out to wife notion that it might be helpful if i ended up over her knee and was sent out to drinks w a sore bottom as an ever present reminder in the moment that i was going to stick to the prescribed # of drinks that she and I had discussed.......we haven't tried it yet.

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    4. At first, I wondered whether preventative spankings were just another way to scratch a spanking fetishist's itch, since they didn't seem to really involve consequences for real bad behavior. But, I kind of changed my tune on that after receiving one. It really did focus my attention on the need to behave during a party at which under normal circumstances I might have over-indulged.

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    5. My former girlfriend who introduced me to adult spanking started using" preventatives" very early, almost intuitively, and I came to think of them as a natural part of an F/M relationship. But I was amazed when --al ( a few years ago I believe) mentioned that his wife used them too AND used the same word to describe them - a word I had never come across before in that context. It really is a small world
      Alan

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    6. Hi Alan - good to see that you are still regularly contributing as well! I seem to recall that we had a couple of commonalities - even though we live a few thousand miles apart. I even usually use the name "Alan" on the forums, but when I first found this site, I noticed that you were a regular contributor already under that name, so just shortened it to "al".

      I believe I first heard the phrase "preventative spanking" in Aunt Kay's private Yahoo group many years ago, which we were privileged to join - although it required a personal phone interview with Aunt Kay with both members of the couple there at the same time. Regrettably the group did not last too many months after that, as Yahoo shut it down after Aunt Kay chastised a member for an inappropriate comment, and he retaliated by reporting the site to Yahoo as pornographic. --al

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    7. Good to have that history on the Yahoo group. I have considered using it to try to have a more open, less topical discussion group, but I think this illustrates why it is not a great platform.

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    8. Hi Al,
      Very good to see you posting again. I remember we did have several very similar experiences with DD including a "supportive" sister in law". What I remember particularly is your description of the "preventative" which I apparently naively thought my girlfriend invented. My wife now uses it occasionally particularly around social events and it still works as well as ever.Actually there is no mystery why it works. Misbehaving within a few hours or even a day of acquiring a warm bottom seems pure insanity.
      Alan

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    9. We have never tried preventative spankings, but I can see how they might be very effective. For me, it wouldn't be for drinking, but rather for checking out girls, which I know is disrespectful, but I guess I am wired way on the hot side (and of course I never do more than look).

      -ZM

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    10. In our case, the first couple of sequential spankings were more of a novelty to me and I was more interested in the concept than the value. However, now that I've been getting sequential spankings for a while, I can say that they are much more effective than a single punishment.
      After the first spanking, the next night when my wife comes into the bedroom carrying a paddle I feel a sinking kind of dread. If I had any spanking desire, it was satisfied the first night. By the third night I find myself hoping she'll forget. Of course she doesn't. I feel truly sorry for my transgression on that third night. I guess it takes that much to make me focus on the real cause of my unhappiness. Needless to say, every subsequent night increases my desire to avoid having this happen again.

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    11. you made an important point...after spanking 1...."if I had any desire it was satisfied the first nite". Same general idea as getting spanked AFTER made to cum. These are ways to remove any of the potential "pleasure" us spankos get...leaving just the "business" to be addressed.

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    12. It sounds like the prescription is not two spankings, but at least three. I have had two, and it wasn't all that much more effective than one. But, we've never done three or more

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    13. I have both been spanked after coming and spanked three times in the same session interspersed with corner time. My choice between them is none of the above.As punishment they both are about the worst she can administer. For behavior change the multiple or sequential spankings seem to get more into my head and are VERY motivational. Maybe that is because of the time expended to administer them. It can be the difference between two minutes for post orgasm and two hours for consecutive spankings. We have never done more than three.
      Alan

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  7. For me it would be adding the idea of "ancillary" punishment. You know you have the spanking coming but then after, when you're in the corner and you know the lecture has wrapped up is when you find out what the other punishment is going to be, and for some things here is where there can be varied degree of the "punishment fits the crime" aspect. Some of those add on punishments I think could be pretty powerful motivators. An obvious example of something i know i would genuinely HATE ( this is one of the few times i'm glad my wife doesn't read this.....this is NOT a seed i want to plant). Even I've noticed I've started dropping the F-bomb all the time. So I could imagine after a few warnings, or if i really lost my temper and went on a bit of a tirade as I'm embarrassed to admit I've been known to do....I could imagine being in the corner, ass on fire as she concludes by telling me she just isn't going to tolerate that any more....i feel her grab my ear and lead me into the bathroom as she.....washed my mouth out w/ soap. I have no idea why but some of the even more mundane traditional disciplines would have a real effect on me. Something as silly as the good old .."sent to bed early w/out dinner". Having to be home early from work...knowing i needed to "report" to her in my/our room and she stood there as i had to get changed then actually get IN BED at 5:30....knowing there's no book, no electronics had to just lay there...the image of her turning off the light (but it will still be bright for a few hours in summer) looking back at me as she shuts the door saying "now you stay there for the nite"....OMG. And ok i'll completely embarrass myself. At one point an "online friend".....had me sit down and write a line 200 times. I thought that was the stupidest thing I ever heard but was SHOCKED to experience the mental effect of having to do that....especially given whatever the line you're made to write is. You truly end up repeating and focusing on that message. Guess there's a reason certain punishments have been around through the ages. They WORK.

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    1. I have never been subjected to line writing and, like you, I've always assumed it was an ineffective and kind of silly punishment. Sounds like I need to reevaluate

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    2. want to have some "fun"?...share this convo w wife......not saying it should become part of her arsenal but to experience the mental thing i did would be a wild experience for you...so maybe she'll make you do it once just so you can experience the mind fuck

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  8. OK and in retrospect....i guess another element of the conversation might be added in...."consecutive"...... now i'd imagine when i report to our room at 5:30 she's waiting for me..... w the paddle.....to refresh my memory about the offense before im then sent to bed

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  9. I have been spanking elliot for years. Hairbrush, shower brush, cane and they all work and his behaviour does improve. However, it was not until I put him in a chastity cage that I saw a change in attitude. Spankings are "after the fact", a chastity cage is an ongoing reminder that he is to be obedient.

    The net result has been much better performance, far fewer incidents of disobedience or willfulness and, of course, a great deal of attentive service in the hopes of being released and maybe even allowed to ejaculate. That's the incentive and it works.

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    1. Hi Hannah Jay. Thank you for dropping by. We haven't tried a chastity device, and my work-related travel schedule might make ongoing use of one a little hard to accommodate. But, other couples clearly swear by them.

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    2. I haven't actually experienced one either...but like hannah Jay, plenty swear by them. Like so much of this the physical aspect has a profound mental effect. I understand since you don't have "access" and hence there's sensory deprivation for the "little guy" it refocuses the husbands attention that he was spending himself all over to HER

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    3. I am always shocked at just how popular at least the fantasy of chastity cages is. Of course, I have no idea how many people actually use them or how it works out in real life, but you can find endless pages of chastity pictures and even more unending chastity captions. It is interesting that my wife and I are both quite into this (DD/FLR including some femdom play), yet neither of us really get off much on either enforced chastity or pegging, which seem to totally dominate the scene.

      -ZM

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    4. As I surmised below much of it is probably driven by make fantasy however there are several female bloggers who strongly endorse the practice. Its another situation where a good survey would help. Dr Kinsey, where are you when we need you?
      Alan

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    5. ZM- Completely hear where you're coming from. For a long time I found the notion of it stupid and a bit too out there. But like much of this, over time being exposed to it a bit and learning more, things you once found weird can become more intriguing. And Alan, yes the practice of it actually has some wild (cool) mental impact. I know I'm sounding like a pro on the topic which I'm not but as i said earlier coincidentally just was involved as a buddy recently went through process of one finally being put on him.

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    6. I've been wearing a male chastity device for almost 6 years. Speaking for myself, and everyone else who I've run into on my blog and other resources, wear chastity devices because they want to. It's a male fetish. My wife is an effective keyholder and has taken complete control. However, I asked her to lock me up.

      There is an enormous body of mythology around women locking the device on their men and then using it to control him or discipline him. Maybe some people do that, but so far I can't confirm a single case. I really like having my wife control if and when I get to ejaculate.

      By the way, I don't think there are any inescapable male chastity devices that are comfortable enough to wear for more than a short time.

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    7. Darren, if you're willing to share, how did that conversation with your buddy come about?

      ZM - We haven't been into pegging either, and I've questioned whether it could function as real punishment, but I think it could if she approached it with the right attitude, i.e. fucking me hard and long in a way that truly hurts.

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  10. Hi Hannah Jay,
    I have enjoyed your own blog over the years and learned much from it although I suspect many women reading it have learned even more. You seem strict while really caring about Elliot’s welfare and needs. And the results you report speak for themselves. I do have a question about the cock locks you enthusiastically recommend. Any male who has experienced any kind of chastity control including the “honor system” understands the erotic passion that builds up from your lover wanting to control your cock or actually doing so. But there are dozens of commenters on this blog involved in serious DD relationships including several articulate women. Dan may have a better sense of it but I estimate that only a minority of them are subject to any kind of ongoing chastity control using a cage. So my essential question is: if the cage works so well (and I am not questioning your success with it) why do so many couples (and particularly the female partner) not use a cage as part of DD. Thanks
    Alan

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    1. Alan, I don't have a sense for it, though I have been surprised in the past at how many DO say they use or have used one, and also just how quickly many of the wives who go from DD to FLR seem to gravitate to orgasm control. For reasons I don't understand, it does seem to have a big appeal to women oriented toward an FLR.

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    2. Dan,
      We don’t actually aspire to a full FLR, but strongly identify with the DD concept. So I guess that places us in a different category as far as the use of cock cages. MY wife does control masturbation (not just ejaculations but any “playing with your cock” but it is based on the honor system (enforced with her brush or strap) I understand that giving her control this way is psychologically different from wearing a cage and I plan to ask her if she wants me to wear one. I might be surprised but at this point I don’t think she will want it. I also need to reevaluate my supposition about how many men wear them and how many women find them appealing. I may be underestimating that appeal even while still believing they are also a big part of many guy’s fantasies
      Alan

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    3. Alan, it doesn't really appeal to be me either, but perhaps for that very reason it would be humbling. But, as I said to Hannah Jay, I just don;'t know if it would be practical given my travel schedule. It is a very rare week that I am not going through a few airport security screenings.

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    4. Chastity control has never appealed to either of us either, although DD spanking did open the door for her to occasionally utilize more sexually oriented femdom-type disciplinary measures when she feels the need to really make a point (or when she is just in the mood, as the case may be) - which, while not necessarily as painful as a bare ass paddling, are far more psychologically subjugating. --al

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    5. Dan- I'm w/ you...i have NO INTEREST in it......which ironically is precisely why i think it would be so effective. The fact that i DON'T want it but it has been imposed upon me by her. Very different from the guy/couple that think it's fun/hot. And damn talk about a constant tangible reminder her authority over you. And this genuinely is a coincidence...LOL...but recently been talking to a buddy about it a lot because he just got put in 1......many are ALL PLASTIC so if she wanted to...you'd have no excuse about traveling. YIKES...lol

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    6. That might get you through the metal detector, but I think it still would show up on those TSA body scanners

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    7. Then even better if you're traveling WITH your wife...and she makes a point to go through the detector first then stands there w a grin as she watches things unfold....lol.

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  11. Hi Dan, work and other obligations have continued to prevent me from regularly participating in your excellent blog - but I do stop by and take a look as time permits, although I think the last time was about a year ago when I happened to visit your blog just in time to read the sad news that Aunt Kay had passed. And, really, kudos to your for carrying the DWC torch so consistently for these several years now - I am certain that your service to the DD community is appreciated by many.

    I believe that you recently mentioned in one of your posts about how some of your regular contributors had dropped out. Since there is necessarily so much anonymity in this genre, I would suspect that some folks simply get busy with other things (and perhaps some even leave the lifestyle) - and they just simply run out of time. I've participated in a number of F/M discussion forums off and on since the late 90's - going back to the Usenet days - before actually become a real disciplined husband in 2002, but have always had trouble maintaining a consistent participation because of a demanding career and various other demands on my time - so truly, lots of respect for your consistency.

    As to this week's topic, DWC discipline has definitely improved my behavior over the years - I certainly swear less and behave better in public - I've gotten a whole bunch of those long, hard spankings for behaving poorly in public over the years. But, neither of us have ever thought that spanking would be an effective motivation for diet and exercise.

    --al

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    1. Hi al. It's really good to hear from you. I was going back over some older topics a few years ago and was reminded that it was unfortunate that we hadn't had the benefit of your participation in a while. I hope all is well with you and your wife.

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    2. Thanks, Dan - we are well - and I am still fetching the paddle on a regular basis.
      --al

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    3. Good to hear. Hope you can find time to come around more often.

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  12. Dan, if I understand what happened in that “sex cult”, the “collateral” members were required to submit was basically information the leadership could use to blackmail them into doing as they were told, including submitting to sexual exploitation. That was really terrible.

    I don’t believe using my husband’s spanking kink (or any of his other kinks) as “collateral” to force him to improve his behavior or to be more obedient would be any more ethical than what that cult did, and I would never do it. I’ve been working on the idea of involving witnesses in my husband’s spankings, but I would not use the threat of that as a disciplinary measure in itself. I would only do it with his full consent.

    I believe the strongest motivational power I have over my husband is an appeal to his sense of honor. He asked for a FLR, and he has promised to submit to my authority as a condition of FLR. His willingness to honor the terms of our agreement is the ultimate source of my power to influence his behavior and his attitude.

    Danielle

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    1. Hi Danielle. Without reading the actual trial transcripts start to finish, it is hard for me to judge what did and did not happen. Media accounts are pretty bad at recounting the nuances or giving an objective account. The original NY Times article is not all that salacious, and it also was pretty light on any accusation that the "collateral" was used for anything other than helping the members reach their own goals. And, many of the women profiled in the story and at trial were very well educated, rich, successful people who certainly were not forced or coerced into giving this "collateral," and its use seems to have been pretty transparently aimed helping them hit their own goals. And, in that original article I couldn't really find anything that said the leverage was actually ever used maliciously, or used at all. It will be kind of interesting to see how this one does on appeal.

      So, what was going on with that group is not necessarily inconsistent with consent, if the recipient is basically saying they are OK with such leverage or collateral being used to give them an extra incentive. Something that seems to me to be pretty similar is there are services out there that help people quit smoking or hit other goals by accepting a big check which, if the person fails to quit smoking or hit some other goal, is used to make a donation to a cause that person finds abhorrent.

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    2. "I’ve been working on the idea of involving witnesses..." A simple way to start may be to do webcam witness sessions, using simple Halloween masks for both of you, to ensure your privacy and safety. I'm sure you can connect with people you trust on this Forum, while keeping yourself fully anonymous.

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    3. (continued) ...Also making sure there are not personally identifying objects in the web cam field of view.

      Ben

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  13. Dev has always had total control. She decides when, where and what implement she’s going to use. She the punishment fits the crime type. Some paddings are longer and harder than others but all very effective. We are leaving on a cruise this weekend. She announced Sunday I was getting spanked every day till we leave. ( she’s given two already ). She also said she’s packing her long handled wooden bath brush. A spanking at sea. I’m worried EVERYONE will hear. !

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    1. I wonder whether any TSA agent anywhere has ever thought that a packed bath brush was really being used for bathing?

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  14. I've got to apologize in advance for this entry. I know I'm the most syrup-cornball cone at the Fair.

    The most powerful "Leverage" for me was always that I could not stand making her unhappy, or disappointed, or hurt her feelings. Those were the spankings that brought the blessed relief of tears.

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    1. No apologies needed. I think that's great

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    2. Yes, exactly this. For me, the impact of a punishment (both in pain at the time and effecting changed behavior) has much less to do with the severity of the punishment, and everything to do with how bad I feel about disappointing her or hurting her feelings.

      -ZM

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  15. Quick question, at what age does the wife start taking control and showing dominance? For me I'm 49 and my wife is 41. She first showed control in our bedroom two years into our marriage. I see glimpse of an emerging dominant, but was wondering how, how old, and when the disciplinary lifestyle began in some of the groups marriages.

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  16. We were both in our early forties when we adopted the DWC lifestyle. While some couples do start earlier, many established couples do seem to try out the DD life as they approach middle age, and have been married a number of years. I've heard it suggested that, for most, it takes a certain amount of life experience to get comfortable enough in your own skin to actually take the plunge into a lifestyle that runs so contrary to conventional societal norms, even though (especially in regard to the males) it may have been a thought for many years before. This was certainly true in our case. --al

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  17. Anon- Thanks for asking that!!!!! It comes up now and then and is still one of my favorite things to hear about.... the real life stories about how couples who hadn't been "spankos" initially stumbled onto the interest, how it ultimately gets introduced by the one partner and then the bumps they went through until it actually got adopted into relationship. Now that there seem to be more woman participating maybe we'll hear from someone who initially was turned off by the idea and then had a challenge actually spanking at first. Dan is one of the fortunate through.....not all wives take to the spanking like ducks to water...lol.

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  18. I think it depends on the couple,whether the wife leans to natural dominance and/or how early the husband reveals his need for discipline. I believe there is more experimentation going on today among younger couples and perhaps a trend for males to accept their need for discipline earlier.I believe women who need to be spanked go through this earlier perhaps because the cultural norms support submissiveness in women. The girlfriend who first spanked me started in her mid thirties but didn't really deliver true punishment spankings until she was at least 40. My wife was over 40 when she stared discipline.
    Alan

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  19. An important addendum to the above: my wife was spanked from her late 20's but she did not become the disciplinarian until her 40's. Her experience on the receiving end of the paddle from her ex convinced her what side of the paddle she belonged on.
    Alan

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  20. Alan- Totally agree w/ younger guess will be more comfortable admitting they want it....and there is the segment where the wife is naturally dominant.... i'm talking about another group. One of the most important things I came across on this journey was the DWC survey. From that, apparently there will always be a good segment of this "community" where they were non-spankos and the guy was the traditional alpha, in charge in both work and personal life....who then has this need sneak up on him when he got older.

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    1. Darren,
      There are many experiences out there and dangerous to stereotype any of them but spanko males and females , especially males, seem to be "coming of age" earlier. As far as it "sneak up" on you that does happen to some apparently ( maybe many) but from a very early age I had the desire to be spanked by a women but a combination of social norms, my own alpha personality and an abundance of women who wanted spanked but did not show any interest in doing the spanking made me a kind of "top" by default until I met the women who believed in females spanking males in relationships and who was very positive about spanking me. I never identify as a true switch because I went from the "top" role to a spankee and have never reverted or wished to do so
      Alan

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    2. While my experience has been in following various F/M forums over the last 20 years has been that the majority of couples that try DD are approaching or at middle age, I do agree with Alan that the "DD Age" is trending younger in recent years. This trend can also be noted in other sexually related areas as well, such as the LBGTQ community, and the CNM/Poly community - the millenials seem to have less cultural indoctrination to overcome. Just my take. --al

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    3. I'm approaching 60 and I grew up in the same era as those who "came to it later in their 40's". However, I decided at 19 I would not live any other way and went about dating with that in mind. Over the last 4 decades I have managed to have at the very least, some element of this in my life, and usually much more than a little.... despite the widely varying circumstances that life inevitably tosses our way.

      And I would almost feel sorry for the close-minded person back then who would dare to insinuate that what I wanted wasn't as valid as any other choice or preference for a relationship. It may not be for everyone or even most, and that's fine. But what a vanilla does is not for me. So I never was held back by any feeling of guilt over wanting this. And I was definitely not swayed by any fear of what someone might think. I also found that by being out there encouraged others to be more open and exploratory as well.....as evidenced by how many people I had DD/BDSM -style relationships with who were just average women from my social circle.

      Maybe the reason it seems more people are open at a younger age now is a benefit they enjoy that they did nothing to earn but was instead built on the backs of the sexual pioneers who opened the doors before them? I often tease young people now that when I was their age a person couldn't even buy a garter belt for their girlfriend without resorting to a limited section in a seedy catalog. Now look at what you can buy walking into a JCPenney, let alone Victoria Secret, which opened its first store on the opposite coast when I was a senior in high school! No, this young crowd isn't a testament to a brazen breed of sexual rebels. That was us. These kids are just effortlessly enjoying walking past the old conventions others had to strive to break through.

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    4. KD deserves his self congratulatory tone but he also raises an important issue for those seeking a mate: should one pursue a soul mate or a kink mate. Ideally they are the same person but often they are not and both sexes find themselves in a love relationship with a vanilla.That could have easily happened to me . Mu heart in matters of romantic love rules my cock and I suspect I am not alone.I was lucky. ( See Jillian Keenan's book for more examples of this)What is the solution. The only one I know is to screw up your courage early in the relationship and express your needs unambiguously( Keenan terms them a "sexual orientation") I think that is much of what the younger generations are doing and while they may be standing on the shoulders of giants, they are still reaching pretty far
      Alan

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    5. Alan: I'm glad you mentioned that choice in what we pursue. But the pairing you stated is a false dichotomy. A better wording would be vanilla sex mate versus kink mate. I have argued before that those rock-solid 'normal' vanillas were the ones to legislate that a person could divorce over the absence of sex for whatever reason. So I always wonder: would the average vanilla marry a person they love if they knew that person would never have sex with them or perhaps never kiss them....because "kissing is yucky"? I tend to think not. Vanillas seek what they want sexually even in matters of love just as everyone else should feel free to do. The difference is they have it easier because there are more of them, not that they are ruled by their hearts while kinky people are ruled by their twisted ideas of sex. Their soul mate is understood to be sexually compatible because they often are. They very often don't need to make the choice.....but I truly believe they would be just as eager to get what they want in the bedroom if it came to that thing being something not so easy to obtain. Then the "soul"-seeking (which I don't believe to begin with) would quickly become "compatible sex and companionship"-seeking. Vanillas are no more sex-blind than anyone else.

      As to the last point, I will say that 'yes' even today the young people being more open deserve credit. Maybe I was being a little harsh. But perhaps it's just a matter of putting that development in perspective?



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    6. I think the vanilla vs. kink is also kind of a false dichotomy. Sometimes "vanilla" is just limited exposure and limited experiences. As I've related many time before, my wife had no pre-existing experience with DD or adult spanking, yet she took to it almost instantly. And she probably is more attracted to FLR than I am. So, this whole thing came very natural to her, once she was exposed to it.

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    7. I agree with Dan. "Vanilla" is a useful term but not a hard category. My guess is that an extremely high percentage of disciplinary wives could once have been described as vanilla
      Alan

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    8. Dan & Alan: I never said: "once a vanilla always a vanilla." Beside, is a vanilla who once exposed to kink, becomes somewhat kinky, still a vanilla? Is a vanilla with hidden kinky leanings a 'vanilla' or just a kinkster-in-waiting? Perhaps "vanilla with chocolate swirl"for the first, and "vanilla with fruit on the bottom" for the latter? My pairing obviously defines 'vanilla' as "none of that weird stuff for me, thank you"-vanilla.....and there are plenty of them. Converts to other flavors are only "prior-vanillas" in retrospect. ;-)

      However, flavor names aside, where do you two stand on the point I was making? That vanillas are not these soul-mate searchers who would never consider sex as part of what they are looking for? If a vanilla had a pretty good inkling that "vanilla" was not on the menu for their intimate future with someone, would most of them just nobly write it off the way they expect a kinkster to do with their "unnatural desires"?

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    9. Some "vanillas "would,others might and many wouldn't. Its pretty hypothetical.
      Alan

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    10. I think this is an area in which individual characteristics make generalization impossible. Most relationships are multi-faceted and people have all sorts of reasons for getting together and staying together. For some, sex is doing to be the end all and be all of their desires. For others, it's not. And, ranges of flexibility on views about sex vary enormously from one person to another. I am sure that some vanillas would see no vanilla on the menu as a very big problem, and others would not. But, I think the same is true among kinkier people. Some almost define themselves by their kink, while others could probably walk away from it. I've always felt that way about DD. When I first discovered it, I was pretty obsessed, but if my wife had not been open to it, I would have moved on. If she wanted to drop it all tomorrow, I would feel a sense of loss, but I'd get over it.

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  21. I was fascinated by spanking since I was a child (I got only one spanking from either parent and I don’t think that one had much to do with imy interest) and wanted to be spanked hard by my wife for all my life with her, beginning when we married and I was in my late 20s. I was afraid to bring it up until my late 50s and she was in her mid-60s. Fortunately it’s going well. She’s taken to her new role as disciplinarian well, although not entirely enthusiastically. But she’s progressing into it as quickly as I could possibly hope.

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    1. It's too bad you kept that desire unexpressed for so many years.

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  22. DeeDee uses spankings to both suggest and enforce changes in habits.

    Predominately, we will have causal conversation during our day-to-day life regrading things we could be striving for (ie. purging some of our belongings, household repairs, walking more regularly, etc.). I will then find the topics making a reappearance during one of our regular maintenance spankings as she instructs me on what she wants done, between strokes of her brush.

    At that point, I am expected to follow-up on her requests. If I slack on the request, she reminds me with a bit more vigor during the next session...accompanied by a subtle suggestion that "this is the last warning".

    If this action does not get the desired result, and she needs to remind me again, she gets her cane out. Once the cane comes into play, it is extremely unlikely that I will ever make the same mistake or neglect the particular request she has made another time.

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    1. I once did a topic on spanking-related phrases. "This is the last warning" definitely gets added to that list!

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  23. Ok, I've been listening to the comments. I made my wife really mad by going on FB and getting into debates with some folks. A while ago she was taking a bath and I said :You might need to spank me to get me to stop," I left it at that. I'll let you know how it goes.

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  24. Reading through the comments it only confirmed my initial thoughts to the post. It all depends on the people involved.

    In our case "collateral" or some kind of blackmail would be counter productive. It may show change for a while but not "true" change. However, depending on the psychology of those involved and the situation, then maybe.

    However, the idea of non spanking punishments may be what separates the spanking fetishist from the true DD or FLR arrangements. Let's ask "if your partner punished you without spanking would you still want to do this?". I think you would have three groups. The first, nope I need spanking to be part of it, no exceptions. The second, I would not like it becuase they are effective but I am committed to improving so will continue. The third, would say sure, I hate spankings (probably the ones who should be spanked the most).

    That exercise in reflection may hit on motivations so that if you truly want a DD or FLR it will allow you to potentially optimize.

    Myself I am in the second group and we do sometimes go through several misbehavior with non spanking punishments. The effectiveness has varied, but I continue.

    On the subject of preventive spankings. I swear by them. For us they work. With my travel schedule my behavior has improved alot on the road if I leave the house with a sore bottom.

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    1. I don't disagree with your distinction being accurate in some, or even many, cases. But I do think it is incomplete as it sets up an either/or dichotomy that discounts the possibility that a spanking fetishist can also be a "true" DD/FLR adherent. Rosa and I are certainly both. And I would say that Nickki is too, and even my Ana has some flickering elements of both camps as well.

      It's probably more accurate to distinguish between types of punishments rather than the people doing it all. We humans are complex creatures capable of a lot of mental compartmentalization and rationalization. But I would go so far as to say that even a spanking itself can be multi-faceted combining elements of the different distinctions you made and still be effective on all fronts.

      (I think I am also at a point in my life where I am becoming more resistant to either/or ultimatums......except as very abstract hypotheticals to prove a point. I want it all. LOL)

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    2. I think one reason I found the whole "collateral" thing fascinating is precisely because it might bring about change even if it was not "true" change, i.e. it wasn't internalized or didn't really shift one's mental state. Honestly, I think that is part of my attraction to DD and to imposed rules and boundaries. DD is attractive specifically because I really don't want it.

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    3. I think I need to have a talk with my wife about preventative spankings. My behavior on the road has gone from bad to really bad, and something needs to change

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    4. They really do work and your wife sounds like she would know how to make them work -but depending on the "occasions of sin" you are confronting, they have a relatively short half life.
      Alan

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    5. I think I'm a combo of the first two groups you mentioned. I truly want to be more attentive to my wife's wants, and I think spa king will help. But there is a since of erotic to it thrills me. I love the idea of being tied up and wore out then flipped over wore out.

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  25. Topic idea: What behavior have you been punished for most in the past year or so? Why are you repeating the behavior? What has your wife done about it? What should she do about it to help you change? Do you really want to change the behavior? How upsetting is it to your wife? Etc.
    A husband who knows

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  26. My wife, who I met at a spanking party, says she was never vanilla. But she did transform from being the one spanked to being the spanker. She says that she believes many women are "submissive in their 20s, a switch in their 30s, and dominant in their 40s." This is regardless of whether spanking is involved, she says, and leads to many divorces as a woman "grows into her power."
    She was in her 40s when we met, so I did not see this transformation and can't really imagine her submissive.
    A husband who knows

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    1. That makes some sense to me. I wonder whether many of us who end up on this side of the paddle follow a similar course, i.e, dominant in our 20s, neutral inn our 30s, and then become discipline cravers in our 40s and 50s.

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    2. This is plausible as a patterned sequence possibly covering many spanking devotees It roughly describes my own experience.So it may be a pretty good description of how it develops for others but not necessarily an explanation of why. That may go to "aging out", becoming more confident to flout societal norms, and a little serendipity.My wife for example did originally identify as a submissive or more precisely someone who needed discipline in the sense that J Killian terms "sexual orientation". But she is today a pure dominant with no interest at all in being on the other side of the paddle.Some of that probably came from an asshole ex who used her fetish to exploit her and part from meeting me. Similarly I passed through your three stages but easily could have started where I ended up ( i,e, over a woman lap). But that opportunity did not present itself early. Ultimately I believe we all have a primary orientation, dominant or submissive, the one in charge or the one who obeys their partners authority.The extent to which we get to express that primary orientation depends on time, opportunity and chance
      Alan

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    3. I agree we probably do tend to have a primary orientation, though some are probably a lot more flexible than others

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  27. I think we are going to try the sequential spanking thing today. I ate like a pig all week and gained weight. And tonight we are going out so there will be temptation to eat more. So last night my beautiful wife gave me the longest paddling ever! I had asked her not to ask me if I’m done. Just keep going until my butt is a bright red and marked. Wow. It was really painful. Earlier that evening, I said she should spank me tonight and tomorrow morning to really drive the point home and encourage me not to eat too much on our date. She said ok. So now here I am dreading a second spanking within 24 hours on my already very sore butt. I hope she doesn’t follow through... but I know I need it.

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    1. I am in for multiple ones, too. Wc can compare notes.

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  28. Hi Dan,
    We are trying to use domestic discipline to improve performance, meet goals, and eliminate bad habits and foster good ones. However, as I have mentioned before, this past year has not really been too good on the DD front. We had kids here a lot last summer, and then we had a loss in the family and that really took a toll on everyone. Also, there was a fair amount of instability on the job front, so the pressure was getting to the point that we just stepped back a bit. Now that things have settled down some, and because we are still held back by my same bad habits, I am hoping we can get restarted on the thing we had going last year with the daily reporting and weekly check-ins. When we were doing that, I saw just how determined my wife is and just how on top of things she can stay if she puts her mind to it.

    As far as how far we would be willing to go, that greatly depends on my attitude. If she knows that I really want to change something, or if it is something that really needs to change, then I think she would go pretty far with discipline. However, if she sees that I don’t seem to want to change something all that much, and if it is really not a big deal, then she would be more inclined to stop worrying about it. Somewhere in the middle might be where she sees that I don’t really want to change something (or can’t), but it is something that really irritates her. In that case, it would be more like KD described where the punishments kind of act as a way for her to blow off steam and clearly express herself, even if it doesn’t make much change in my behavior. In any case, she has the authority to take things as far as she feels like, even if I don’t “like” it at the time.

    The single/multiple thing is definitely noteworthy, but doesn’t really work for us. The reason that a spanking usually stops is because of the condition of my bottom. However, if she does spankings on subsequent days, while they do hurt a lot, they tend to be shorter because while my bottom recovers very quickly from a spanking, the healing seems to be quite superficial. If she spanks me again, it looks really bad really fast, and those marks tend to stay for a much longer time. Her attitude about bruising is changing over time, and she even at times just has me put on underwear and continues, and sometimes she even seems disappointed when there are no marks the next day. But generally bruising is not her favorite thing.

    One thing that multiple spankings do achieve is to lengthen the time of the punishment to several days. Time is one of the most significant keys to changing behavior. Longer spankings are more effective than shorter ones because mental barriers take time to breach. So if she can somehow keep my mind on the issue longer, there is a much better chance of me changing. I think that is where the true value of additional/alternative punishments comes in. She has only done physical/humiliating extra punishments so far, like mouth soaping, hand strapping, corner time, hot cream, and even diapers. All of these lengthen the punishment beyond when she is spanking my bottom, and they are all quite effective. She has never done less physical things, such as writing lines, extra chores, early bedtime, or grounding, but again they would all keep the issue on my mind for a long time. On the other hand, they would also be more likely to be resented by me at least at the time, so that could backfire. However, if she pressed forward, and punished me further for any sort of resentment or bad attitude that I might show, that may be effective.

    I too was struck by the innovative approach taken by that the group described in the news story. I don’t have any ideas for leverage or collateral that my wife might use, but it is a fascinating idea. There is something intriguing about her having the power to actually FORCE a change, since the IMMEDIATE COST of not changing is just too high. I emphasize “immediate cost” because I can’t even calculate the long term costs that we already pay because of my bad habits and lack of self-discipline.

    -ZM

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    1. "There is something intriguing about her having the power to actually FORCE a change, since the IMMEDIATE COST of not changing is just too high." Once again, you and I are so much alike.

      I agree that the value in multiple days is probably keeping your mind focused. I find that even when I feel really remorseful for bad behavior, it just has a short shelf life.

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  29. There is of course the opposite of leverage. At Good Life Central we operate on trust and consent. What I have failed to realise is that consent and enjoyment/commitment or not the same. That is why as we speak I am leaving my mindset of the last 3 years and returning to my stimulant of before. Reason? Despite her best efforts to pretend otherwise Mrs GL is faking it. Like when she faked it as a spankee, that is killing me. I have no regrets being on the receiving end, I am not even 100% sure I won't go and pay for a damn good spanking in future. But as part of my marriage I am sure its over. I have given Mrs GL 2 months grace (family matter given me the excuse) and then am just not going tp reinstate our schedule. Bottom line is (pardon the pun) if you can't meet me half way (f/m m/f or any combo) it won't work. As an non dramatic exit line I wish you all the happiness you desire, the architect of this site my best wishes and I have nothing but respect and envy for those of you getting the glowing red bottoms off your other half's that work for both parties. Bye and as they say my side of the pond, Wacko!

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    1. Sorry to hear that. I hope it works out for you both.

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    2. Perhaps if we met and befriended another DD couple. The ladies could compare notes and maybe even trade deserving rear ends for a combined discipline session. It would be nice to interact with other DD couples not just for punishment but for leisure as well. I'd like to go to a convention of DD seminar speakers with discipline implement makers and discipline furniture makers showing their product. Maybe even DD training for newbies. Make a big weekend associating and making friends while we shop, learn and swap stories.

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