Saturday, December 2, 2017

Vol. 231 -- Limits


"If we do not wish to be ruled by a coercive authority, then each of us must rein himself in." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Hi all.  I hope you had a good week.  I really do love this time of year.  For once, we put our Christmas decorations and tree up right after Thanksgiving without delay.  We weren't the first in our neighborhood, but close.  I had to go on a business trip this week, and when I came back, a good portion of our neighbors had their lights up.  It really does change my mood.  Though, not necessarily my behavior.


In fact, one problem with this time of year is there are no shortage of opportunities to get in trouble and misbehave, while the "real life" distractions that get in the way of her correcting such misbehavior also increase. Work parties, parties with friends, family members more likely to be around . . . It all can create the perfect storm of temptation unchecked by immediate consequences.  

But, my own wife does seem more focused on correcting my behavior than is sometimes the case.  It's taken such a long time, but I feel like she has finally really internalized the notion of Domestic Discipline as a "go to" way of taking care of disputes and getting more of what she wants out of the marriage.  As Anna said last week, it gives her a way to take real action, then let the resentment go.  No matter how much short-term pain that may mean for my bottom, it is so much better than passive-aggressive silences or pouting.

Anyway, last week we discussed limits.  It was a good discussion, and it is interesting how many of us really want something more than spankings for bad behavior.  It's really the verbal dominance, lecturing, setting of boundaries, etc. that we crave.  As much or more than the actual act of being disciplined or its after-effects.  It's also clear that one of the biggest impediments for the wives is the "trial and error" involved in figuring out how hard should hard be, how hard is too much, etc.   Of course, ironically, many of the men seem to really want her to step up her level of control and dominance in ways that don't directly involve the spanking element of these relationships.  So, she could safely step it up in those areas, without any concern about whether she is spanking too hard or not hard enough and with no risk that a punishment is excessive in any physical sense.  It would be interesting to extend this discussion to address whether there are ways to encourage the wives to take that next step and start displaying real confidence as the Head of Household, setting rules, being more verbally commanding, etc.

Regarding the trial and error issue, one thing we did early on that really helped us both was combining self-reporting offenses with a pre-set minimum number of swats for each offense.  Instead of leaving her to have to guess at how rigorous the punishment should be, with all the self-doubt and concerns about hurting him "too much" that can go along with a wide-open system, setting a minimum "floor" for the session took a lot of pressure off her.  In fact, it reduced the whole thing to a very simple mathematical exercise.  And, because the spankings were delivered with a wooden paddle, the combination of a minimum number of swats, added up cumulatively by offense, meant that small offenses and few offenses over a week resulted in a fairly mild session that reflected the generally mild misbehavior, while if the tally got high . . . well, I had no one but myself to blame. In fact, I recall to this day (many years later) that the first real glimmer I saw of her really embracing Domestic Discipline, as opposed to just accommodating my desire to experiment with it, was when I had a particularly bad week, and the tally got up into the mid-double digits for the first time.  I added them up and said something like, "I don't know if I can take that many swats," and she replied, "Well, then I guess you should have been better behaved, because you are going to take that many swats."  It was a real turning point in some ways.

This week, I also wanted to talk about the flip-side of wanting more, i.e. are there limits to that for you?  Or, since so many of us seem to be at the point of wanting "more" in almost every sense, are there things you think should be off-limits? 

Because so much our our own dynamic has been caught up in wanting her to be more assertive and more strict, we haven't spent a lot of time talking about anything that is "off limits."  It's also a matter of being together for such a long time, we don't really need to spend a lot of time talking about those kinds of things.  We know what pushes each other's buttons and what areas are especially sensitive.  So, most of our limits are more mundane.  Where spanking itself is concerned, what "limits" there are have, unfortunately, resulted from the kind of "trial and error" that does seem to be kind of inevitable.  Most of it has been around instruments.  A while back, I became enamored with rubber straps and ordered several.  Once we tried them . . . all I can say is . . . OMG!  They hurt so, so badly.  I don't know why they hurt so much more than leather, but they do.  Now, one "positive" outcome of that was, for perhaps the first time ever, I came to really, really want to avoid getting spanked.  But, those instruments also were by far the most likely to result in a spanking being terminated early because of excessive physical damage to my butt.  I don't have a lot of padding back there, so the skin is very tight and prone to injury anyway, and the rubber had a high tendency to result in that kind of injury.  It was counterproductive to the whole process, because she would terminate the spanking well before she felt I had been truly punished.  So, we got rid of most of the rubber implements, other than one lighter weight strap that doesn't seem to be as risky.  

Now, in other ways she has not accepted my suggested limits.   I have told her several times that if part of the goal is to get me to tears, she should consider more of a warm-up, so I don't go immediately into "take it like a man" mode in which I just try to get through the spanking.  Yet, she never really adjusts her approach and, instead, goes hard from the first swat to the end.  I think it is a conscious choice that for her, taking me to that place of cathartic release is only a secondary goal, at best, and her first priority is to make sure I am well and truly punished for the bad behavior.  

Most of our other limits are really more around the more FLR-oriented aspects of the relationship.  They really aren't even boundaries, so much as harder-wired reflections of who we are as people.  For example, I would have a real problem if she tried to micro-manage anything related to my career or, god forbid, try to push me to take that career in a really different direction.  Work is just so core to who I am as a person, I wouldn't take kindly to someone telling me what to do in that area of my life.  Now, I'm fine with her giving me some DD-related incentive to perform better and to cause less churn in my work environment through my temper or lack of self-restraint, but that is really about enhancing performance in the direction I myself have set.  In reality, it's hard to see this as a "limit," given that she doesn't have any desire to tell me what to do about my career, so it's really not an issue.

We also seem to be on about the same page regarding other aspects of the relationship that might present boundary issues for other couples.  Neither of us have the slightest desire to explore cuckholding, for example.  If she decides to experiment more with enforced chastity, I would comply even if I'm not wild about the idea.  I would actually be OK with her being more openly in charge in front of the kids and even in front of others.  So, that seems to be more of a limit for her than for me.

So, what are you limits? What are hers?  And, are there areas where the limits clearly exist but one or both of you see that limit as something that should be overcome?

Have a great week.

Dan


32 comments:

  1. Good Saturday Dan. I don't have much to offer but we do not have limits. I know I'm odd as I rate each spanking on a 1-10 scale and was given an 8.5 last summer and only a 3 Thursday. ( very unusual. ). I'm curios as to if I could handle a 10 and a cane too ? She has an assortment of implants like prob everyone one here but no cane yet. I asked Dev how she goes about giving a spanking. She said she strives to be firm but fair. Bruising and blistering is fine as they heal rather quickly. One time a little blood was drawn but nothing serious. Thankfully she doesn't give them when totally angry but if it's a serious offense the punishment has always fit the crime.

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    1. Hi Jr. I agree, bruising and blistering go with the territory of a serious punishment spanking.

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  2. Uh. Make that implements not implants. ! Stupid phone.

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  3. Limits is the wrong word for me and Mrs GL, its more a case of if it happens and no-one objects during or after then its all part of the mix. TBF our mix is not an expansive one but if it was to grow it will be spontaneous I suspect. Cheers Good Life Mickey

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  4. Ok Dan... you piqued my curiosity! In the contexts of additional types of punishment you said if she wanted to “experiment MORE with forced chastity”. Have you tried that? Was it her idea???

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    1. Perhaps poorly phrased. She has ordered no solo sex, but nothing beyond that.

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    2. Dan
      If a wife can break her husband of no solo sex, she has done her job. I have suggested to Peter if he yearns for that its fine with me. My only caveat is I want him to do it in front of me. I will watch. So far he has passed on that idea!
      Anna

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    3. Hi Anna. I certainly understand why he would take a pass on that!

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    4. Hi Dan
      This brings up the question of exactly what chastity is.I have never worn a cage and neither woman I have been involved with in a disciplinary relationship were interested at all in devices that locked me up. But both women have certainly controlled my cock including masturbation and permission to cum during intercourse. So is chastity just the addition of a cage or what is the difference. Incidentally Anna's method described above really works. My girlfriend used it when she first started to control masturbation and after one or two "exhibitions" I found it embarrassing and at the same time realized how adolescent I was acting when I went solo without her.My wife skipped all that and went straight to a no masturbation ever rule. But I had been so well trained by then that the absolute prohibition worked too
      Alan

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    5. Hi Alan. I tend to equate "enforced chastity" (perhaps wrongly) with a cage. The other variation you point out is a ban on masturbation versus a ban on orgasms during non-solo sex relations. Mine has never gone in the latter direction, and I don't think she ever would.

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  5. I absolutely love it when she is truly strict with me. Recently I got a spanking, but was not really in the mood. I told her that I'm too tired and that she should please go easy. The told me in a firm, confident tone that she would make sure I was properly punished. And she just went through with a very, very hard spanking with the bathbrush that had me in tears when it was over.
    Of course I could have stopped it in theory, but the FLR lifestyle is so ingrained now, all I did was stay over hers knees and take it, no matter how much it hurt.
    The weirdest thing: When she was done, I felt more in love with her than ever. Strange, huh?

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    1. Not so strange, for those of us who have experienced the same thing.

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    2. Agreed. We find it an intimate act, so the same happens to me.

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  6. I work out heavily in the gym, so there is some thick padding on my buttocks, meaning we have so far not had to talk about limits: - I continue encouraging her to go as far as she feels is necessary.

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  7. Dan, we experimented with safe words and limits. After one exceptionally severe strapping Bart implored me to allow him to use a safe word. There were several spankings where I stiopped punishment before I felt the lesson had been absorbed . The problem was that we had the same problem several times. After a good talk about how apparently ineffective the spankings were where he used a safe word I informed him that I would decide the extent of punishment and I proceeded to blister his behind and that prioblrm did not reoccur after. I have on occasion left significant bruising and raised welts with the strap. Further proof that unpleasant harsh discipline does work to change behavior, Bart hates mouth soaping and knows cursing always wihoit exception warrants a mouth full of Ivory duds and a very sore behind

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    1. Hi Sylvia. It used to be very rare that my wife's efforts did not result in bruising and welts. I do still usually get welts, but I don't bruise nearly as much as I used to. She has not resorted to mouth soaping, and a prohibition on cursing would require her to buy Ivory by the case. But, maybe that alone is reason for her to try it. Thanks!

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  8. My wife threatened to use a strap on my hands soon after my hip surgery. I was able to talk her out of since I work all day with my hands and any kind injury could hamper that. My behavior was going down since there was no threat of a spanking , we are back to normal now.
    Frank

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  9. The "limits" were set - and gradually revised!- by N. (my late first wife) as she added new "tools" to her collection - beginning with the hairbrush and the martinet. The "limits" later extended when she came up with the idea of flogging me in the open air with a switch she cut on the spot when we were out for a stroll in the woods. She also raised the "limits" when she first decided I should be spanked or whipped in our hotel rooms while on vacation - and, most humiliating for me, to spank or whip me in the presence of some of her friends... one of them being J, whom I later married - and whose main addition to the 'limits' was to have her sister join her to deliver some serious paddlings or whippings whenever we got together...
    L.

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    1. Given that this sounds like repeatedly adding things, not subtracting anything or imposing a line that is not crossed, I am reminded of that line from the Princess Bride: You keep using that word [limits]. I do not think it means what you think it means." ;-)

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    2. You are right - and I have long since realized that "limits" are always subject to revision, although they have not (fortunately!) been raised over the past five or six years...
      L.

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  10. I'm not sure if a limit counts if it's moot? For example, neither of us would be into the whole "cutting/branding"-thing. So if neither of us are interested, is that really a limit?

    Rosa probably has more things she'd rather not do than me. And as for DD itself? That's probably still the case......but we have a pretty mutual understanding that nothing is going to happen that endangers the relationship on either side. What would be the point in insisting on some detail that ends up ruining everything?

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    1. Same here. My wife and I are generally on the same page about most DD and non-DD aspects of our marriage. There isn't much that one of us is very interested in that the other is not open to doing. There are minor things at the margins, but nothing important enough to impose some formal "limit." The closest we come to a real divergence in DD or FLR-related matters is probably that I let a bad genie out of the bottle when I suggested she experiment with the "service submission" aspects of an FLR. Turns out, she really likes bossing me around and telling me to do things, while I absolutely hate it. But, this whole thing has to serve her needs too, or it will fail. So, I suck it up. And, to the extent part of my goal is to sand off some of the rough edges, it is undeniable that one reason I hate the service thing is precisely because I always hate orders regardless of who they come from, and submitting to them is humbling. So, her orders kind of have the desired effect . . .

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    2. You've mentioned that last part before and it could very well provide for a discussion of its own. Stuff we don't 'want' that is actually helpful in altering our mindsets.

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    3. Agreed. See my comment to Bart, below. I think there is a fairly good argument that unless we don't 'want' what we are being subjected to, then what is the chance it is really impacting behavior, mindset, etc. It's kind of the line between DD fantasy and DD reality, right?

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  11. Dan, while we have been married many years and have been engaged in DD before we knew there was a name for this, the conflict between Sylvia and I regarding limits has been an ongoing challenge. While I recognize that initially the punishments were a result of my needs, she soon decided that spankings were effective and useful for her as well. Over the years there have be instances where I have objected to the reason she had given for a particular punishment, and also the severity. I have protested very vigorously to mouth soaping which I hate. In the end I have always submitted and the knowledge that she decides the extent of the punishment has as she posted changed my behavior. It’s not just cursing that brings out the Ivory soap it’s also mean or spiteful dialogue .she has threatened me with a spanking in front of her sister but that has never happened.

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    1. Hi Bart. This comment kind of cuts to the core of what I'm talking about when I draw a distinction between "real" DD versus BDSM with DD trappings. From what you say, you objected to the severity and sometimes the reason, but you acknowledge that the behavior changed. Similarly, you hate the mouth soaping, but it she wants to change the behavior, doesn't it require something that you are truly, genuinely adverse to?

      I'm not criticizing at all. Just using this to illustrate an irony that I think is really common in these relationships, including mine. We want to be disciplined for doing bad things, and we want the punishment to be bad enough to deter the bad behavior. Except, on some level, we really don't. But, that in itself is the essence of punishment -- if you want it or don't disagree with it on some level, then is it really functioning as a punishment?

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    2. That is really where the rubber hits the road, when she punishes consistently as to the behavior and she decides why it happens, when it happens and where it happens, and you realize you really can't stop it. Why was the hardest for me for a long time because I thought we had a clear understanding of what was punishable behavior. True at the theory level but not true at the interpretation level.Over the years I have been spanked many times when I sincerely believed I didn't deserve it.But ironically that is a big part of what makes it work and what I need.At some deep level we are unable to self discipline and so we turn that over to our wives. She decides and I obey and it works.
      Alan

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    3. Hi Alan. I totally understand that dynamic.

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  12. Hi Dan, one thing I have recently found useful in getting to the catharsis of a good cry is just crying out. Telling her ahead of time that I'm going to cry and not to stop. We say code word red means stop, but we've never used it. When the intensify is at its peak and she is going to town on my rhino ass, I just start crying out. Feels kind of cathartic. Rcb

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    1. We have had similar conversations, but I still can't quite get to the point of tears. As long time readers know, I want to but just can't seem to get over that hump.

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    2. I have never been reduced to tears - but I have certainly yelped a lot over the years!
      L.

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    3. You certainly did last night! - and I'll make sure you do again when you deserve another whipping!
      J.

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