Saturday, December 9, 2017

The Forum - Vol. 232 - Where the Rubber Meets the Road


Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.
Hi all.  Sorry for the delayed posting.  I woke up with a cold, but in the interests of full disclosure, I also had a very nasty hangover.  We had a holiday party last night, and a very merry time was had by all.  I'm finally feeling almost human again, so I decided to get off my lazy ass and do some posting.

I'm not quite sure how to characterize this week's topic, but it extends from a couple of comments on last week's by Bart and Alan.  Bart's comment was:

 
Dan, while we have been married many years and have been engaged in DD before we knew there was a name for this, the conflict between Sylvia and I regarding limits has been an ongoing challenge. While I recognize that initially the punishments were a result of my needs, she soon decided that spankings were effective and useful for her as well. Over the years there have be instances where I have objected to the reason she had given for a particular punishment, and also the severity. I have protested very vigorously to mouth soaping which I hate. In the end I have always submitted and the knowledge that she decides the extent of the punishment has as she posted changed my behavior. It’s not just cursing that brings out the Ivory soap it’s also mean or spiteful dialogue .she has threatened me with a spanking in front of her sister but that has never happened.

Alan replied:
That is really where the rubber hits the road, when she punishes consistently as to the behavior and she decides why it happens, when it happens and where it happens, and you realize you really can't stop it. Why was the hardest for me for a long time because I thought we had a clear understanding of what was punishable behavior. True at the theory level but not true at the interpretation level.Over the years I have been spanked many times when I sincerely believed I didn't deserve it.But ironically that is a big part of what makes it work and what I need.At some deep level we are unable to self discipline and so we turn that over to our wives. She decides and I obey and it works.


As I replied to Bart:   

This comment kind of cuts to the core of what I'm talking about when I draw a distinction between "real" DD versus BDSM with DD trappings. From what you say, you objected to the severity and sometimes the reason, but you acknowledge that the behavior changed. Similarly, you hate the mouth soaping, but it she wants to change the behavior, doesn't it require something that you are truly, genuinely adverse to?
Again, I'm not sure exactly how to label this topic, but something along the lines of, have you had that "where the rubber meets the road" moment Alan referred, to where the punishment became, for lack of a better word, "real," such that it became something you really, truly wanted to avoid?  As most of us who contribute here know, we have some weird attraction to this lifestyle, and most of us literally asked for it.  And, as the caption above says, we want a spanking (or other punishment) that is bad enough that we really do not want it.  Has she taken you to that point -- to the point where you genuinely do not want this thing that you put in motion?  And, has she hit the point Bart refers to, where she decides the disciplining you serves her needs as much or more than hers?

My wife and I have been doing this for a long time.  I don't recall exactly when we started, but it was something like twelve or thirteen years ago.  Yet, it was really only a year or so ago that I feel like we hit both of those points.  The first happened largely as a result of new tools.  For me, it involved rubber hitting not only the road, but my ass. I bought a couple of rubber straps that were just excruciating.  They hurt so badly, for the first time I would really, truly dread what was coming if she ordered a spanking.  She ended up deciding to discontinue using them, because they had too much of a tendency to break the skin. Not in a major way, but enough to bring a spanking to an end before I had received the full measure of punishment she wanted to deliver.  But, the dread remains because she really did crank up the level of her paddling in general.  And, I also ordered some custom made paddles that seem a lot more painful than her old one.  

It also seems like her own dedication to Domestic Discipline has increased in the last couple of years, probably because we consciously took things in a more FLR-oriented direction.  I can't say that aspect really took off in a major way, but I think it gave her a taste of real power and control that went beyond merely spanking, and it felt good.

Tell us about your experiences.  Has your DD relationship reached a point where the spankings are something you truly seek to avoid?  And, while we're at it, what about Bart's discussion of mouth soaping?  We have not done that, and I hope she never does.

Have a great week.  Counting down to Christmas!





37 comments:

  1. Great post. Avoid overdoing the Holiday eggnog. :)

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    1. Good advice. Wish I had taken it Friday night. :-)

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  2. No, no desire to avoid them whatsoever, as they are firmly built into our routine and at this stage, I would feel rather lost without one at least daily.

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  3. I fully NEED to be spanked occasionally. Plain and simple, guilty or innocent. So I can't say I look to avoid spankings.....but I do feel differently about different ones. In the real aspect of a FLR/DD, I do try to behave though. So I do try to avoid misbehaving. That desire is quite genuine and the punishments help with that. But even if I was a full-time angel, I would probably need the occasional 'reminder of who's boss' serious spanking just to even out my keel.

    We have done mouth-soaping a couple of times. (You can read the details on my blog!) ;-)

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    1. I sometimes feel that need as well, but not always, and when I do I think it has to do more with needing penance and accountability than the spanking itself.

      I got one last night that definitely fell into the category, of "the kind of spanking you really don't want." Laying down last night hurt. Pulling my pants on this morning hurt. Sitting hurts. Taking a shower in the gym hurt.

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    2. Just be grateful you have someone with the confidence to deliver that sort of spanking.....and still do so for the right reasons.

      As for your distinction, it is interesting. I'm not sure what the real need is for me. If it was the sensation, then a play spanking.......done hard enough......would suffice. But what I occasionally need is a 'real one' and unpleasant one.......even if there is no single solid reason for it. So maybe it's the penance aspect more than the sensation? But the sensation is so key that it is hard to separate the two.

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  4. Our female-led DD has not reached the point you describe and I doubt it ever will. At the beginning, we drafted a list of spankable offenses. Yes, we have added some as well as removed some over the years. She does not like to punish, but she will when necessary, and very effectively, so I try to behave to avoid a real punishment spanking. When I am punished, I merely accept. I never question the implement, the severity, the duration or position. Much less ever question the reason. I would say I am lucky that her power over me has not gone off the deep end. She dislikes discipline, but I do not escape very often. We seem to rely mainly on maintenance spankings to insure my behavior stays on an even keel. I willingly submit to long maintenance sessions. Mouth soaping is something she does not believe in. A swift and harsh punishment spanking follows my swearing. My former used mouth soaping, so I know what it is about. She also followed the mouth soaping with a harsh spanking. My former also used a dose of humiliation along with her punishment, another factor my current Dominant does not believe in. I'll sum up by repeating i am lucky to have a Dominant who will punish as needed, but has not gone overboard with her power over me. I am no where near regreting I started this DD relationship in the first place.

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    1. While Alan and Bart's comments that I highlighted in this post focused on wanting DD even after having received a real punishment spanking or after real discipline became an ongoing reality, your comment does suggest a natural extension: Whether anyone tried DD, it became real, and that led to regret over starting it in the first place.

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  5. We've been at this life style for 28 years now. There are certain levels of punishment for various offenses. The " woodshed " should be avoided at all costs but have been out there a few times. I don't believe any session has been too severe, but when the paddling is being given I feel otherwise. When it's over and I've had time to reflect , I usually wish it was longer and harder. Mouth soaping has never been discussed. I've said too many things that would qualify and I asked her how she felt about it ? I said I would try it once if she wanted to. She flat out rejected the idea. That is totally good by me.

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    1. Yeah, I don't plan to suggest mouth soaping to mine, though looking back, more than once I have suggested something and come to regret it. If I screw up and do so this time, hopefully mine will fall your wife's lead and reject it.

      BTW, 28 years . . . that's amazing. Congrats!

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  6. Dan
    When Anna and I began it was strictly DD. As time has passed, more and more, when it concerns our home and especially teaching and setting examples for our sons, we are more and more becoming a FLR. Do I resent it at times I do. At times to be honest, I HATE IT!!! HATE THAT I EVER AGREED TO IT !!!
    But at the same time I doubt I would have a wife and family without it.
    When I look around at our friends who have been married as long as we have, I see that we seem to be the most content. So, although I dont always like it, I accept it.
    Peter

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    1. Hi Peter. I agree that the FLR aspects are harder, though I go back and forth. Like most of the people in the last poll, I really crave more strictness in general and more of her taking control verbally, scolding more and harder, being more directive, etc. Then, when it happens I hate it. But, I am coming to realize that it is that part that I actually crave more than the spanking. I think it is because I grew up without many boundaries, and part of me really craves them because I didn't experience them, but another part is so used to not having them that I rebel whenever someone tries to impose them. Nice Catch-22.

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    2. Dan
      I am with you on that! More and more I feel that what perhaps you and I refer to as FLR is more having my marriage becoming a partnership.
      peter

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    3. There is some truth to that, unfortunately. Though, I do think part of me strongly wants aspects of it to be unequal, with her laying down boundaries that I must respect whether I like them or not. But, certainly going into DD one of our explicit goals was to make the relationship more evenly balanced.

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    4. Dan
      As Peter's partner in life, I begin to see how DD is what leads to a FLR which in turn needs DD to push down that natural male craving to be in charge.
      Anna

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  7. Over the years, there have been quite a few times when I wished that N. or J. were more sparing in the course of delivering "punishment" - even though I knew they felt it was "deserved" - but I never questioned their authority. I do, however, have mixed feelings about being spanked or whipped under the eyes of another woman (even though one of them was J. whom I ended up marrying after N.died)... I did get used to having B. (J' sister) spank or flog me whenever we get together - as will certainly be the case again when she comes to visit for the holidays - but (even though both N. and J. did/do it), I don't really like being spanked or whipped in hotel rooms when we are traveling...
    L.

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    1. B. and I will certainly make sure that your derrière is being taken care of over the 'twelve days of Christmas' (as we did last year!)... And you can be sure I won't forget to pack my hairbrush and the martinet when we travel to the Bahamas later, after the holidays!
      J.

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    2. That's probably a good topic -- how many people have packed an obvious spanking implement while traveling.

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    3. Quite a few, I suspect - but not necessarily "obvious"... There was one time - years ago! -when N's carry-on bag was inspected at customs by a (female) officer who spotted her martinet - and gave her a knowing smile... From that time, N. (and, later, J.) have taken care not to pack their "implements" in "carry on"...
      L.

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    4. My Dominant ALWAYS carries a spanking implement or more when we travel. As to hotel room spankings, it happens for us many times. Sometimes we have been discovered while other times not. Discovery does add to the anticipation and excitement of being spanked in a hotel room.

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  8. Your topic this week is what happened to us. When we started out we came into DD through spanking games and my ‘need’ for CP.
    We both sat down and talked over where we going with the spanking thing and both realised we could use CP to correct my real faults. I don’t recall exactly who suggested it but I’d read some stuff about DD on the net, mentioned that, and she said something like ‘well there’s things that really annoy me that you do or don’t do……’
    We soon had some ground rules and I was punished for breaking them. What happened though was two things: Mistress really enjoyed her new-found authority and she became rather well adept at using a cane.
    What were playful spanking games quite quickly developed into quite severe punishments. At first I absolutely loved her powerful authority and willingly submitted to her punishments.
    But then I had a major wobble and couldn’t face going home knowing I was to be caned. I started to make excuses not to be punished and this caused some friction – mainly because what I was doing was undermining her authority – and knocking her confidence.
    The reality is that my wobble lasted only a few weeks but when I was ready to be all submissive again, Mistress wasn’t confident in herself or in my attitude.
    Why my wobble? I’m still trying to work it out but I think it wasn’t so much the punishments but the fact that so much was going on with my work and homelife that I couldn’t cope and removing the DD element was the one thing I could easily do to get come kind of order back in my head.
    That’s what I should have tried to explain at the time but instead I came up with pathetic excuses that just inflamed the situation.
    We’re working it out now (I’m being mentored by a third party – definitely interested to hear if anyone else has done this) and I’m pretty confident we’ll end up back with a full DD regime.
    How will I cope if that’s the case? Let’s just say I’ll accept her authority 100%. I don’t intend making the same mistake twice.

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    1. I do hope it works out that way for you. One reason I have never totally resisted punishment is we men spend so much time asking our wives to deliver and all the time they are afraid we really won't comply. If we prove them right, that must not only kill their confidence but also re-affirm their suspicion that we didn't really know what we were asking for.

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    2. I completely agree, Dan. I have promised 100% no resistance, ever once punishment is the decided (by her) course of action. I may protest but never resist. I always feel I don't want it, wish I'd never suggested it, etc - when it starts and whilst it's happening but I would not change any part of it.

      BTW - has anybody been subjected to the so called 'Diaper' position? My wife seems to think it might add some interesting additional humiliation and the ability to continue lecturing face to face. I am quite concerned ... TB

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    3. TB,
      Ours is the same way, in that I can protest but not resist. And even by protesting, I risk extra punishment. And I am exactly the same (see below) about when it actually happens, I don't want it at all, I wish I never suggested it, I want it to end, etc. But then any other time, other than when punishment is imminent or happening, I would not change anything about the arrangement, except probably to make her even more strict and to make the punishments not necessarily harder but certainly much, much longer.

      Now, about diaper position, I simply must say think very, very, very carefully about whether you want to do this or not. On the one hand it is much more humiliating, but on the other hand, you probably won't notice the humiliation all that much because it simply hurts beyond belief. This is kind of on my mind because we used it in a "play" time before, and my wife has told me she expects to do this during our next actual punishment, and she is pretty sure that it will end in tears. Anyway, I can say it certainly hurts more than any other position I have found.

      -ZM

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    4. We have not done diaper position. ZM, any thoughts on why it hurts more?

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    5. It hurts more because, similar to being bent over but even more pronounced, it stretches the skin even more taunt.

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    6. Yes, Darren, you are right that it stretches the skin very taut. Also, the spanks are all focused on the sit spot and upper (and to a certain degree inner) thighs. This area has less padding and the skin is already incredibly sensitive. Combine little padding, super-sensitive skin being pulled tight as a drum, and put some humiliation on top, and you have without doubt the most painful spanking position, at least of common positions.

      -ZM

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  9. I wanted to post last week but didn’t have time. Now I can kill two birds with one stone...

    She has not yet taken me to the point that I don't want it. Though she spanks very, very hard, and I always want it to end, when it does end I am left wishing it had gone further. I guess she takes me to my limits but doesn't push past them, which I think would be beneficial.

    This relates to limits (from last week). I doubt that we will ever encounter physical limits. She loves me and is not out to cause injury, though she tries to make it as temporarily painful as possible. While I may hate it at the time, she would never do more than leave some marks and bruises that go away after several days and I am ok with anything as long as the effects are temporary.

    As for limits for other things such as humiliation, as others said, it is more that we try things and if we don't like them we don't do them again. It is not so much a limit thing. Even though she is very open minded and has really, really taken to this, I think my limits are much wider than hers, so I just don't see limits as being an issue.

    She also uses additional punishments so I have experienced mouth-soaping, which was unpleasant, but I still keep thinking about it. She has also used capsaicin cream after a spanking. I just can't express how amazing it was, since it left me feeling "just punished" for hours; the “on fire feeling” went on and on, and then after it left I was still sore from the paddle and cane. The cream wasn’t all that painful, but it definitely kept me mindful of my punishment. She has also used nettles to similar effect. They hurt quite a bit at the time and then leave a burning feeling for 4-6 hours afterwards. Both are interesting because a day later, you can’t see any sign that they were used. Anyway, we are very open to experimenting.

    Regarding your other questions, yes, disciplining me serves her needs as much or more than mine. She feels very empowered by this. We decide everything by mutual agreement and do not have an FLR, but she has the authority to punish me at any time for any reason in any way that she chooses, so it is like DD+. Since I need enforced boundaries, the "for what, why, how, and how much" aspects of punishment need to come solely from her, otherwise I don't get that feeling of it being imposed as I crave.

    Having said all this, while DD is very effective at changing my behavior, I am pretty sure that I would not avoid doing something because I want to avoid the pain of punishment. Instead, the punishments serve several purposes.
    - She gets to clearly express just how she feels about an issue or behavior.
    - I get a tangible sense of the emotional pain that my behaviors cause.
    - She gets to "vent” and gets closure for the issue.
    - Punishments get issues in the open, preventing accumulated irritations or feelings
    - I very clearly hear her for a while instead of thinking of what to say next.
    - I get a feeling of release of guilt, and also am left with closure.
    - Residual soreness aids reflection for several days, changing my mindset and feelings.

    So after a punishment, the air is completely clear between us, and I am left with several days of reminders of the issue every time I sit or move. Because I love her deeply and want to be the man I aspire to be and the husband she deserves, I change my behavior. It is not out of fear of punishment, but rather out of desire to improve, but somehow painful punishments greatly help the improvement process along. For us, I think DD is actually an additional and very effective form of COMMUNICATION, and consequently greatly strengthens our relationship.

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  10. BTW, forgot to sign my super-long post above...

    -ZM

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    1. Thanks,ZM. Great observations. I relate strongly to your "Having said all this . . ." paragraph.

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    2. Thanks, Dan! By the way, your topics recently have been just great!

      -ZM

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  11. "I very clearly hear her for a while instead of thinking of what to say next."

    WOW, that is so true. We men seem to have:

    Two ears that can hear perfectly well, but often can't get us to listen.

    But we also have:

    Two bottom cheeks that can't hear at all, but which can make us really listen when they are properly heated up by a determined woman.

    Carl H

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    1. Hahaha about the bottom cheeks that can't hear but can make us listen. Exactly true...

      It is perhaps strange to think of DD punishments as being a communications tool, but at least for us that is exactly what they are. When she chooses to communicate to me in this unique way (which connects in the most power way with my deep-seated fantasies) it really gets through to me. And as the "conversation" rolls around in my head in the following days, since I simply can't stop thinking about it, I have noticed that it really has a positive effect on not only my behaviors and attitude, but also it changes some of my selfish and at times just plain wrong thinking patterns.

      Since communication is the bedrock of any great relationship, this really strengthens the bond between us and brings us even closer together.

      - ZM

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    2. ZM, I have a new theory that the success of a FLR DD relationship is not the based on the frequency of corporal punishment, but rather the scarcity of nagging (whining, complaining, bitching, etc), which confirms that CP is a communication tool - and a much more effective one at that than nagging. Virtually all wives at least attempt to discipline/train their husbands verbally, which is often counterproductive, or at least has severe limits. The Disciplinary Wife knows the value of communicating with her man physically, whether it be through food, sex or spanking.

      Carl H

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  12. Dan, we are wondering if the where the rubber meets the road comments were a play on my name?
    We have had a number of conversations this week about Bart’s comments.
    I don’t intentionally make decisions to punish simply for the sake of exercising my authority. While there have been instances where Bart didn’t agree that he had behaved in a way that justified a spanking but I felt he was being childish or petulant. I don’t recall ever deciding to take his pants down for a spanking without a clear warning. It is his inability to recognize sometimes very child like annoying behavior that really can escalutate. I have a number of verbal warnings, wait until I get you home, or that’s about enough that usually get his attention. Like others here I always carry my hair brush and reaching for my purse also usually gets his attention. When the warnings aren’t heard and the behavior persists I reach a point where the only effective release of my stress comes from me tanning his behind. The added threat of mouth soaping always brings protest. Over the years on several occasions he has blurred out expletives during a spanking. This has stopped the spanking while I drag him by the ear pants down to the bathroom for a soaping and then the most serious spankings have followed . By the way even during our conversations about these postings he has objected to the mouth soaping but my point remains , watch your words.

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    1. Hi Sylvia. No, I'm not that clever. "Where the rubber meets the road" was a quote from Alan's comment. Your comment about tanning his behind bringing about stress relief for you is very relevant to the new topic I just posted. I hope you will weigh in on it as well.

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