“The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it. ”
-- Roseanne Barr
Hello all. Welcome back to the Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives. This is our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in domestic discipline or Female Led Relationships.
I hope you had a great week. I assume that some of you did, or at least a busy one, since the number of posts has been down for a couple of weeks now. I hope that is a reflection of folks having other competing priorities, and not a reflection on the last couple of topics.
A few weeks ago, as some of you saw, I had a little spat with someone whose main line of inquiry was, "Why must this be so harsh?" To me, the very common sense answer was that the people who are genuinely into this lifestyle are, I presume, doing it for disciplinary purposes. Hence the name -- Domestic Discipline. For discipline to be effective, it needs to be unpleasant. Therefore, it hardly seemed surprising that the community of readers of this blog would be heavily populated with people who are looking not just be spanked, but to be spanked very hard. I also presumed that many men who want to be in a Female Led Relationship not only want to be controlled; they want that control to be firm. Commanding even.
At around this same time, however, I was also getting some questions or comments from some of our Disciplinary Wives indicating they had some nagging doubts along the lines of "Does he really want this?" or "What if I do it harder or am more dominating -- is that what he really wants?"or "I'm worried that if I really take control he will resent me for it."
So, since we had not done a poll on these issues in a while, I decided to put my presumptions to the test. Last time we did some similar polling (over a year ago and with a smaller group of readers), the clear result was "more." In short, men wanted more and harder spankings, by a significant margin. This time, I tried to get a little more granular to focus not only on the act of spanking, but to try to see what men want in terms of severity of discipline, the sternness of their partner's demeanor, and the extent of accountability.
The results are in, and they are not very surprising (at least to me), though they are interesting nonetheless. The response rates varied slightly on the respective polls, but they averaged about 135 people, which is fairly high by our historical standards. Here is what they had to say:
The disciplinary spankings I receive are:
I wish my disciplinarian's demeanor toward me was:
In holding me accountable, my disciplinarian is:
The most obvious takeaway is, as our earlier polling is confirmed, men want it "more" and "harder." Harder spankings, more stern demeanor, and being held accountable on a stricter basis. This should give some assurances to any willing but hesitant dominants out there who have been holding back, thinking that their husbands may not want real discipline and control. If they don't, then they are in the distinct minority. Very few of our poll-takers thought their spankings were too hard, and even fewer wanted less accountability or less sternness from their disciplinary wives. In fact, "more" and "harder" trounced the other categories.
Something that surprised me a little was the strength of responses wanting more accountability. Almost 8 in 10 men wanted her to be more strict in holding him accountable. I assumed it would be high, but in line with the other two questions. But, it was almost 20 points higher than those wanting harder spankings. It was also the area with the lowest number of men who are satisfied with the current state.
While it's easy to speculate and dangerous to read a clear message from a poll that, even with a pretty high response rate was still only about 10% of this blog's readers, some general, though tentative and qualified conclusions do seem to emerge:
How about you? Where do you come out on our polls? Do you want it harder, stricter and tougher? Do you want her to toughen the demeanor she uses when addressing your bad behavior? If you were to give your wife feedback on what you want and need, would you tell her you want more and harder? Or maybe it's already more than you bargained for? Or, maybe she's doing things just right? For you, what does the ideal look like?
I hope you all have a great week. If you are a newcomer here, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.
Dan
Hello all. Welcome back to the Forum - Disciplined Husbands & Disciplinary Wives. This is our weekly gathering of men and women participating or interested in domestic discipline or Female Led Relationships.
I hope you had a great week. I assume that some of you did, or at least a busy one, since the number of posts has been down for a couple of weeks now. I hope that is a reflection of folks having other competing priorities, and not a reflection on the last couple of topics.
A few weeks ago, as some of you saw, I had a little spat with someone whose main line of inquiry was, "Why must this be so harsh?" To me, the very common sense answer was that the people who are genuinely into this lifestyle are, I presume, doing it for disciplinary purposes. Hence the name -- Domestic Discipline. For discipline to be effective, it needs to be unpleasant. Therefore, it hardly seemed surprising that the community of readers of this blog would be heavily populated with people who are looking not just be spanked, but to be spanked very hard. I also presumed that many men who want to be in a Female Led Relationship not only want to be controlled; they want that control to be firm. Commanding even.
At around this same time, however, I was also getting some questions or comments from some of our Disciplinary Wives indicating they had some nagging doubts along the lines of "Does he really want this?" or "What if I do it harder or am more dominating -- is that what he really wants?"or "I'm worried that if I really take control he will resent me for it."
So, since we had not done a poll on these issues in a while, I decided to put my presumptions to the test. Last time we did some similar polling (over a year ago and with a smaller group of readers), the clear result was "more." In short, men wanted more and harder spankings, by a significant margin. This time, I tried to get a little more granular to focus not only on the act of spanking, but to try to see what men want in terms of severity of discipline, the sternness of their partner's demeanor, and the extent of accountability.
The results are in, and they are not very surprising (at least to me), though they are interesting nonetheless. The response rates varied slightly on the respective polls, but they averaged about 135 people, which is fairly high by our historical standards. Here is what they had to say:
The disciplinary spankings I receive are:
Too hard
|
13
(9%)
|
Not hard enough
|
84
(63%)
|
Just right
|
36
(27%)
|
I wish my disciplinarian's demeanor toward me was:
More stern
|
98
(71%)
|
Less stern
|
4
(2%)
|
Her demeanor is just right
|
35
(25%)
|
In holding me accountable, my disciplinarian is:
| |||||||
Something that surprised me a little was the strength of responses wanting more accountability. Almost 8 in 10 men wanted her to be more strict in holding him accountable. I assumed it would be high, but in line with the other two questions. But, it was almost 20 points higher than those wanting harder spankings. It was also the area with the lowest number of men who are satisfied with the current state.
While it's easy to speculate and dangerous to read a clear message from a poll that, even with a pretty high response rate was still only about 10% of this blog's readers, some general, though tentative and qualified conclusions do seem to emerge:
- Women, stop worrying that your husband is going to resent it if you give him that hard, disciplinary spanking that you have been reluctant to give. Whether he will have one of those "why the hell did I ask for this" moments during the event is an open question, but you can at least rest assured that if your husband wants anything different in your DD relationship, you are probably safe in erring on the side of giving more, not less.
- You also probably don't need to worry about being perceived as "bitchy" if you take firmer control and embrace that HoH role. 70% of the guys out there seem to want you to cut loose with that more authoritarian demeanor.
- Your man wants you to hold him accountable. So, when he screws up, don't waste time and energy pondering whether spanking him in this instance is "fair." He very likely wants you to keep him more firmly under your thumb.
How about you? Where do you come out on our polls? Do you want it harder, stricter and tougher? Do you want her to toughen the demeanor she uses when addressing your bad behavior? If you were to give your wife feedback on what you want and need, would you tell her you want more and harder? Or maybe it's already more than you bargained for? Or, maybe she's doing things just right? For you, what does the ideal look like?
I hope you all have a great week. If you are a newcomer here, please take a moment to stop by the Guestbook (tab above) and tell us a little about yourself and your DD or FLR relationship.
Dan
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI come down firmly on both sides of this question. As far as spanking harder, most of my spankings are pretty severe ( by my standards anyway)She usually spanks until I stop struggling and let go to it and almost always with that ( dammed) bath brush. So I am well spanked when she acts. But I would sometimes like to see her firmer in taking control during discipline and quicker to initiate discipline when it is needed.She does sometimes wait too long to act.Being firmer during discipline just makes getting punished easier because I feel I have no choice in the matter. The firmer she is, the more obedient and cooperative I feel. For her part she has let me know I should " self report" better and to be honest I find self reporting difficult while she says it makes it easier for her to be a disciplinarian. There is a vicious circle here somewhere
Alan
Hi Alan. That is close to where I am as well. My wife spanks very hard. The issues on which we need to work are her taking firmer control and growing into the HoH role. Really trying to develop the "FLR" side of this is newer to us, so it is more of a work in progress than the spankings themselves. And our lives are just so busy, it makes consistency of accountability a real challenge.
DeleteIn both of my marriages, the tacit understanding was/is that she decides when I need/deserve a spanking and how strict it will be (and I always accept her decision). Unless she announces how many whacks or lashes she will deliver, however, things may be rather unpredictable... There have been times when the chastising was lighter than I anticipated (no complaints here!) - and other times when it was harsher than I expected but, all in all, I admit that I have been treated and punished fairly by both N. and J. - even when that means a very sore derrière ! ...
ReplyDeleteL.
Sounds like we put you in the "just right" camp on all counts.
DeleteHello Dan,
ReplyDeleteAnother good discussion I think. Hard spanking is necessary to any kind of serious discipline.It must hurt enough to deliver a clear message. But just as important a man has to be emotionally involved in his punishment, accepting it, acknowledging how he brought it about and admitting it has to happen.I don't expect Jay to be heroic when I spank him but I do think excessive squirming and especially hollering are acts of rebellion. Also I like it when he confesses to me before I find out he has disobeyed me or broken one of our rules ( we don't have that many) Confessing means a man really gets it and is aware of his behavior and on the way to correcting it.Effective punishment is certain, swift and severe. If a man can be trained to confess that guarantees the certain part. My job is to make sure it is severe and swift and I do a pretty good job of that.Jay wants physical discipline to decrease and I have told him repeatedly that if he really wants that he will form the habit of confessing to me when he misbehaves. We will see.
Marisa
Hi Marisa. We have tried to make confession a core part of our DD practice as well. "Certain, swift and severe" seems like a great prescription for breaking the misbehavior.
Delete"Confession" is very much part of our DD regime - and it usually takes the form of L. (with trousers at half-mast) bringing me the hairbrush or the martinet when he knows he is due for it. Also (more infrequently), when he has committed some serious misdemeanor while I was away from home, I may find that he has anticipated what he knows he deserves by awaiting my return, kneeling and bare-bottomed (leaving me to decide what sort of punishment he needs)
DeleteJ.
Our disciplinary spankings are about right. I get spanked enough to make the point that she is dissatisfied and to know that I need to do better, but without intentional bruising or bringing me to tears. If I thought she could inflict that much pain on me and see me really bruised and crying, I could not really feel like she loves me or be with her. Even though I consented to discipline, I have to know there's a line she wouldn't cross or I could not be with her.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Anonymous.
DeleteIt is good that you found a level that works for you. For me tears do not come easily (though they do come sometimes) but if there was no bruising I would feel like I hadn't been properly punished and would miss out on the reminders of the punishment in the coming days. For me when she punishes me to the point that it feels like real punishment I feel more loved than at any other time because I know that it is very hard for her to cause me pain yet I know that she loves me enough to give me what I need. So you and I are polar opposites because if you received punishment like me you would feel unloved yet I feel most loved when I get just that! Probably all of us have a line that we expect our wives to not cross but for me I trust her completely because she loves me and is doing this only for me, and my line is clearly at a more severe level of punishment than your line. Though we are all different it is good that each of us can find what works for us.
DeleteThanks Anonymous. My own views are similar to yours, and to the advice from the DWC: The harder you spank him, the more he will love you for it!
DeleteYes, Anonymous. A lot of how we individually address the questions in the post comes down to how we internally and emotionally process the discipline and the narrative we create for ourselves which goes along with it. I'm clearly in the minority.
DeleteMy wife is one who decides, she feels the stricter the better, it leaves the impression it was intended to leave. I agree with her, I need it that way, as she states, I'm a slow learner. She deals with the problem at the time, so have been spanked just not at home, my mother-in-law, hotels, even camping.
ReplyDeleteI share your slow learning problem.
DeleteIt's been a crazy/busy 2 weeks with little time for much of anything, but I did put Shilo over a chair and used both the bath brush and medium church paddle on his bare bottom. He clenched a bit, so there was more bruising than usual, and it was a long time coming simply because of the reasons my life has been crazy/busy.
ReplyDeleteHi Merry. I sympathize with the craziness of life getting in the way.
DeleteHello everybody
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes discipline the spankings should be severe, merciless and ruthless. Its not a child's play.it's a very responsible exercise of a wife to correct an adult male for a bright and trouble free future. In short,Dd spankings should be that in corner time a husband should be crying as loud as a ten year old would be and should really repent for his mistakes. As I am a little busy I will come back with more on this debate
Hi Anonymous. I agree on the sentiment that disciplinary spankings need to be severe to work.
DeleteHello Forum, I think my spankings should be more severe, and hope will over time. I don't get to the point where I feel the spanking for very long after the event. I don't feel like I learn the lessons unless there is a significant emotional experience. The poll results agreed with my votes, but my wife is always afraid to hurt me and errors on the safe side. I'm grateful for what she gives me, but my wife would benefit from talking with some of the forum wives. John
ReplyDeleteHi John. I hope she is able to do that.
DeleteWell I am blessed with a wife that now after a few years even trying to get her to spank me in fun, now spanks me for fun, tension relief, and long hard hairbrush spankings that leave me in floods of tears sobbing over her knee. And the most amazing thing is she knows without me saying anything what kind of spanking I want or need, and I am truly thankfull to this lovely wife of mine who has loved and put up with my changing moods for 40 years of wonderful marriage.
ReplyDeleteThat's great that things have worked out so well for you!
DeleteMy spankings are pretty serious. Not quite tear provoking yet but she is certainly not afraid to turn my backside a very bright red.
ReplyDeleteI would very much like her to adapt a sterner both before and during the punishment.
I would love for her to announce that I had a spanking coming and from that time thru the conclusion of the spanking she would embrace that H0H role and take firm control and use embrace a authoritarian attitude.
Lastly despite the giant strides we have made over the last few years I would very much like the frequency of our sessions to be more frequent almost to the point of a regularly scheduled event.
They help tremendously with my overall attitude as well as relieving stress I am may be dealing with.
Thank you for listening and thank you for the blog!
Hi Greg. Thanks for the great input.
DeleteI think what many men are looking for in a Disciplinary Wife is a "No Nag, No Nonsense" approach. By that I mean she does not nag, whine or complain, but neither does she tolerate any nonsense out of her husband. In order to achieve this result, she must be strict and consistent. By that I mean she must utilize her default "go to" punishment (usually spanking) as a first response to any misbehavior or bad attitude, rather than saving it as her last resort.
ReplyDeleteI believe naughty boys need to let their wives decide when, where and why punishment happens including level of strictness applied. Wives are after all in charge.I do believe consistency is vital. Once I spank him for something he can expect the same with repeat behavior. Also I never threaten a spanking or fail to deliver one after he has heard those ominous words "you are in trouble". That over almost 14 years of home discipline has made the biggest difference.
DeleteLucy ( obviously not my real name)
Anonymous, I don't know if that's what they are looking for, but it does seem to be something that would help.
DeleteHi Lucy. Thanks for joining. I agree that ideally the wife should be making those decisions, though I will add the caveat that if the level of strictness isn't high enough to make an impact, then it doesn't seem likely that being consistent would make much of a difference. While we have been taking our marriage in a more FLR direction, which entails her making more decisions, I still emphasize that these relationships work only where both parties are able to communicate what is working and what his not, and that had to include him being able to say that the way it is being done just isn't getting through to him or having the necessary impact -- no pun intended.
DeleteDear Lucy, I started this sub thread as "Anonymous May 16, 2016, at 10:43 AM", but forgot to leave my name. OF COURSE you are correct in saying that "naughty boys need to let their wives decide when, where and why punishment happens including level of strictness applied", especially as to each specific disciplinary event. In fact, I don’t believe it is a true disciplinary relationship unless the husband can be and is punished when he doesn’t want to be -for that is when the wife truly begins to enforce her will and separates the real disciplinarians from the hanky-spanky crowd.
DeleteThat being said, it is often the husband that brings up the idea of a disciplinary in the first place, with various goals and needs to be met. So the ‘disciplinary agreement’ is usually a negotiated process where various parameters are agreed to - you could call this the legislative process. However, like you, I believe it is solely the province of the disciplinary wife to exercise the judicial function (determining guilt) and the executive function (administering punishment),without any input by or resistance from her husband.
Carl H
My wife learned about FLR from her close friend who had successfully turned her husband into a “dreamboat”. As she incorporated FLR principles into our relationship, things began to improve but punishments were ineffective as she was not able to inflict much pain or discomfort. With her friend’s guidance, she became much more effective by using implements and prolonging my spankings much, much longer to the point I was in tears. Only then did the punishment spanking become a most effective means for changing my behavior and habits.
ReplyDeleteCan you say more about what your wife's close friend said or did to help your wife get to the point that punishments are effective. I am in that same situation and actually my wife has become very strict with me which is good but the spankings I get don't really motivate me and my attitude slips back.She takes me to the point I want her to quit and she does quit which is not what I need. I need to be taken well beyond that point so that when its over I never want another and I remember that the next day and the next week
DeleteJoe
I have same issue of my wife not spanking long or hard enough to make a lasting impression. As I complain she stops or goes easier. We are having a couple that helped me convince her to start using discipline on me because I shared with her they used it. They moved away but are visiting soon. I am hoping for us to meet them for dinner so she can tell my wife that she needs to set a punishment number and follow through. But I am not complaining I have waited 35 years of marriage to come this far.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Anonymous. Please let us know how it goes.
DeleteIt's been really helpful hearing from so many of you that this can be a long evolutionary process w your wives! I was being unrealistic about my expectation for my wife to embrace the concept. Like so many couples...i as the husband introduced my need to her after 25 years of marriage. There's a wide spectrum of interest within this group. At this stage (who knows sounds like things change over time) my goal is not to have my wife adopt a full FLR. Im not sure that would work for us. However what i AM trying to accomplish is, when something happens or my behavior merits it, my wife feels comfortable for that period adopting a HoH posture....address the issue w me over her knee and dole out a punishment that would truly make me regret my actions and try to do better so that i don't experience the pain and discomfort.....and then comparable to when you have a "verbal argument"....after the fact when its all over...then she and i go back to our normal day to day interaction.....fingers crossed
ReplyDeleteThat seems like a very realistic approach.
DeleteFirst, I like the change to your blog header including disciplinary wives. I think the wives input is helpful to all of us. I also agree with your poll results being applicable to most men's desires including mine with some caveats. Our relationship differs from most as we have no FLR and although I consult my wife on decisions that must be made and more often than not we reach a compatible understanding, if we don't my wife defers to me. I have always been the leader through many years of marriage and that hasn't changed.. As years went on and our children headed for college my wife let me know that many of my inherent behaviors were inconsiderate, condescending, and my temper was unacceptable; that it had to change. I listened intently and realized I had to change, and not simply apologize when I hurt her feelings as I had done in the past. I realized our marriage had the potential of being unglued if I didn't change and I didn't want that and neither did my wife. I concluded I needed to be disciplined if I continued these behavioral problems. We sat down over a glass of wine and discussed all of my behaviors that upset her. (I had previous to this discussion read the Spencer Spanking Plan and eventually the DWC blog. I suggested she help both of us by spanking the hell out of me should I violate any of the behaviors we discussed. Surprisingly (to me) , my wife agreed I definitely needed discipline and eagerly agreed to be the enforcer, Keep in mind we had about 20 behavioral rules we both agreed must be changed and I offered a few of my own (like going to the gym, drinking too much, smoking, etc. which were for my benefit that were not raised by her. We then agreed as followed (1) if I violated a rule there would be a spanking (no exceptions) (2) that she would make sure I would dread those spankings. Although she still defers to me on decisions that have to made, she has enforced our disciplinary agreement to the letter. Perhaps because spanking was common when we were children growing up in the same neighborhood, from the beginning her spankings were all I could take, and often a little more than that. After the first several spankings I started to really try hard not to violate our agreed upon rules to avoid those spankings. I have been pretty good at following the boundaries we agreed to, but every so often (maybe once every two months on average) I screw up. Never intentionally, and usually caused by my temper or impatience, and when that happens, every time, I wind up with white spots and blisters on my rear end. I fear, but don't resent these thrashings. In fact I appreciate the fact my wife is enforcing our agreement and helping me be a lot better and more loved husband. It also relieves me of the guilt I have for having misbehaved. So I answered your poll with three just right answers.
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous. This is a great summary of what I think a lot of men are hoping for in a DD relationship: "We then agreed as followed (1) if I violated a rule there would be a spanking (no exceptions) (2) that she would make sure I would dread those spankings."
DeleteI don't know whether the fact you aren't in an FLR puts you outside most of this community. When I first started the blog, I didn't consider MYSELF to be in an FLR, and I really wasn't until about a year ago.
I've really been finding this blog helpful. It's very much helping me to learn more and understand how discipline fits into obedience. Several comments in the past few days really resonated with me:
ReplyDelete"…neither does she tolerate any nonsense out of her husband. In order to achieve this result, she must be strict and consistent. By that I mean she must utilize her default "go to" punishment (usually spanking) as a first response to any misbehavior or bad attitude, rather than saving it as her last resort.
Wives are after all in charge.I do believe consistency is vital. Once I spank him for something he can expect the same with repeat behavior. Also I never threaten a spanking or fail to deliver one after he has heard those ominous words "you are in trouble".
(1) if I violated a rule there would be a spanking (no exceptions) (2) that she would make sure I would dread those spankings. Although she still defers to me on decisions that have to made, she has enforced our disciplinary agreement to the letter.
…from the beginning her spankings were all I could take, and often a little more than that. After the first several spankings I started to really try hard not to…
… violate our agreed upon rules to avoid those spankings. I have been pretty good at following the boundaries we agreed to,…"
I_ObeyHer
(my FetLife name)
I'm glad you are finding it helpful.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteLike several others have written, and as I wrote about several weeks ago in a letter, I am not involved in FLR, but rather we are in a disciplinary relationship where she has absolute authority to punish me whenever, however, and however severely she wishes. The primary purpose is to fulfill my fantasies of receiving real discipline, though we both benefit greatly from my improved behavior and attitude. While it is a huge turn on for me (except for while it is actually happening), the most important thing is it brings us much closer together and leaves me feeling motivated, at peace, and very loved.
ReplyDeleteSince it is mostly my own goals and expectations that she is enforcing, I want her to hold me very accountable, since I can usually find a justification for everything and in the end I don't meet my own goals which results in me being unhappy.
As for demeanor, though we are very kind and loving to each other at every other time, when she decides to punish me it needs to be like night and day, and I want her to become ultra strict and demanding. She should scold me harshly, normally exaggerating just how bad the offense was, and all of my excuses and pleas for mercy should fall on deaf ears.
Punishments should be about as painful as she can make them without causing any lasting damage other than marks and bruises that will go away after a few days. Once punishment starts, the more difficult she is the better. For example she can insist that I stay in position perfectly and add additional punishment for me not following instructions. And the punishments should go on for some time after I quit enjoying it for it to be real punishment. This can include multi-part punishments separated by corner time or sometimes multi-day punishments for serious offenses.
Though it perhaps sounds a bit harsh, everything is motivated by our love for each other. As soon as it is over, she returns to her normal kind, gentle, caring demeanor, and everything is great again. I feel forgiven and released of guilty feelings and at peace not only with her but also with myself (and my deepest fantasy is satisfied). She benefits from a more attentive husband who will do anything for her because he is so in love with her.
We are actually pretty new to all this, and still learning as we go, but this is what works for us.
-ZM
Thanks, ZM. Great stuff.
DeleteDan
Dan
ReplyDeleteANNA & I ARE IN THE MIDST OF MOVING TO A NEW HOME AND THINGS ARE HECTIC HERE BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY TO ALL HUSBANDS HAVE PATIENCE AND BE OPEN AND HONEST WITH YOUR
WIFE. IT WONT BE PERFECT OVERNIGHT!
PETER
You have my sympathy buddy. Moving pretty much sucks.
DeleteI don't have much to contribute this week since I was one of those voting mostly in the "just right" category. I do think Rosa could be more strict, but there are good reasons right now why she's not and I think that if those conditions change, she may very well become a bit more demanding.
ReplyDeleteOne observation though....... as I read this week's responses, an awful lot of them have a male-driven, "this is what she should do", tone to them. While both parties should get what they need from a DD arrangement, my experience is that a willing woman will become far more confident in finding her own way with only a small hint of 'direction' from the male. While a male-need-driven arrangement can work, it will do so only for as long as the woman is out to satisfy his disciplinary needs rather than her own. True authority and confidence however, rarely develop if this is her prime motive. (Just read the input from the ladies, and you'll see what I mean.)
I don't have much to contribute this week since I was one of those voting mostly in the "just right" category. I do think Rosa could be more strict, but there are good reasons right now why she's not and I think that if those conditions change, she may very well become a bit more demanding.
ReplyDeleteOne observation though....... as I read this week's responses, an awful lot of them have a male-driven, "this is what she should do", tone to them. While both parties should get what they need from a DD arrangement, my experience is that a willing woman will become far more confident in finding her own way with only a small hint of 'direction' from the male. While a male-need-driven arrangement can work, it will do so only for as long as the woman is out to satisfy his disciplinary needs rather than her own. True authority and confidence however, rarely develop if this is her prime motive. (Just read the input from the ladies, and you'll see what I mean.)
KD, I agree about the tone most comments are taking this week (including my own), though I think that may be a reflection of nature of the question for the week "Do you want it harder, stricter and tougher? Do you want her to toughen the demeanor she uses when addressing your bad behavior?" etc. It is no surprise guys are writing in with what they want and need from a DD arrangement since that was the form of the question asked.
DeleteBut you make an excellent point that it is MUCH better to not offer too much direction to the woman (which makes sense since you are wanting HER to be in control)! I think this is especially difficult in the beginning, because it has often been the man's fantasy for a long time, maybe much of his life, and the woman quite often has never been exposed to this at all and knows virtually nothing about it. So the man tries to help his wife to learn by sharing all that he knows, and while to a point this can be helpful, if taken too far it can very much undermine her confidence and sense of authority. I know that I did that for several months between the time that I first shared my desires and the first time that a punishment actually happened. I had her reading things, looking at video's etc. But then after she did the first punishment, she said she actually really liked it and it was kind of a turn-on for her. Now I don't really show her anything, because I am watching it develop as she wants it to develop.
While it is tempting to try to quickly form your wife into the perfect disciplinarian that you have always dreamed of having, it is so much better to allow her a chance to find her own style. It all becomes a much more powerful experience when she is not just trying to satisfy your needs or act out your fantasies, but instead she is doing it because SHE wants to do it! Of course, how quickly this happens (if at all), and to what degree she is able to become a strict disciplinarian when needed probably depends a lot on the woman, but if she really latches hold of this, watch out!!!
-ZM
Agreed and, in an ideal world, all these relationships would be like the stories on the DWC -- the woman gets fed up, takes control, orders that the disciplinary relationship is going to happen, and that same night she reduces him to tears with a hair brush. But, that is seldom the reality. In far more cases, the man initiates, the woman thinks it is kind of weird but agrees to give it a try, and things progress in fits and starts from there. I've also come to believe that one of the biggest hurdles for willing but hesitant disciplinary wives is the constant inner questioning regarding how much he wants in terms of severity, control, etc., and whether he will see her as "bitchy" if she starts really controlling him and holding him accountable. The point of the polls and the ensuing discussion was to give those wives reassurance that, yes, odds are he really does want this and has no problem at all with her exercising power up to (and probably beyond) the limits of what she would want if all the self-doubt were removed.
DeleteZM-
DeleteThose are some of the best comments I (as a new DD Hubby "Wannabe) have seen!!!! THANKS
Your survey and all of the comments on the topic have been outstanding. Great job!
ReplyDeleteI think it is natural for men to want to influence their wives to match the fantasy they have always had about being in a disciplinary relationship. As I read between the lines in the Comments, and even the Survey itself, evaluating their "performance against our fantasies" is something we continue to do.
And again, I think this is pretty normal human behavior.
I believe that at the end of the day the complete fulfillment of that fantasy is an internal job. Finding a way in our own minds to be 100% satisfied with how ever it is that our wives choose to deliver discipline makes whatever she wants to do perfect.
Let's face it. The origin of all this comes from some earlier period in our lives and we were certainly not judging anyone's performance in those days.
And more than likely, that attitude will really empower most women. Which as most of you indicate is your goal.
Thanks, Tomy. I get what you're saying, but for me the "fantasy" label doesn't quite resonate. I see it more as matching the methods to the goal, or about effectiveness. I'm also not sure for me personally that all this comes from an earlier period. It may be that for a lot of men the lifestyle it is a fantasy and they are trying to find a way to fulfill it, I'm not sure that is universally applicable.
DeleteThis re-raises an old question never really resolved: how much of the spanking drive comes from the environment ( experience) and how much from genetic endowment. In other words the old nurture vs nature debate applied to spanking.The very best explanation I have ever read suggests that many if not most people ( men and women) have some genetic predisposition to spanking. But it is experience that triggers that predisposition if it is ever triggered. The more powerful the experience the more powerful the spanking impulse. That doesn't explain why a heterosexual would be M/F or F/M or even a switch. That I think could be determined solely by experience.
DeleteAlan
I have given up, for the most part, trying to come up with any definitive answer on the nature versus nurture debate. If you can find it, I would love to see the "genetic predisposition" explanation, as it just seems like a very odd thing to have genetically. But, who knows? It does seem true that many have the spanking desire very early on, though some like me do not. I'm also starting to think that having the innate desire to be spanked doesn't fully explain the people for whom the spanking is about accountability or penance, as opposed to a fetish focused on the act of spanking itself. I recently found something called The Psychology of Adult Spanking, which posited that people who want to be spanked to tears do have a spanking fetish, but the desire for a real punishment spanking is often associated with a lack of early boundaries. That sounded reasonable, though it doesn't seem to account for people like me for whom the desire for accountability seemed to trigger the spanking urge, instead of vice versa.
DeleteComplicated stuff.
"Complicated stuff" . Yes it is and the absence of much empirical data gives free rein to the theorist. A good theory explains the facts and given the great variety of spanking interest we don't seem to have very good theories.I do believe for most people at least it involves a genetic factor triggered by early experience. But we are far from dotting the I's or crossing the T's on the whys and wherefores. I am also willing to believe there are some who adopt spanking as a relationship tactic, a way to enforce accountability or a way to deal with guilt.Spanking can be a very practical tool in a consensual relationship so there is undoubtedly a pragmatic aspect to it for some
DeleteAlan
Face it, humans are complicated creatures, and I reject the notion that we function like biologic computers where there are just inputs and outputs and if you could see the source code you could figure out exactly how input A caused output B. Your thoughts on the genetic trigger did raise one other thought with me: Is it interesting that the DWC has influenced so many of these relationships, yet it is in many ways the exact opposite of how most of them actually begin. Whether your genetic trigger theory is right or not, it does seem undeniable that in most cases, the interest in spanking pre-dates the interest in DD, and it is usually the man with that spanking interest who asks for the DD. Yet, a large majority of the stories on the DWC revolve around a woman getting fed up with bad behavior and imposing the DD lifestyle on a man who had no previous interest in spanking. The influence the DWC model has had is another indication to me that while the spanking interest is a key driver of these relationships, it is not the only one by a long shot, and the desire to be subject to someone else's authority, along with the concept of imposed accountability, are additional and independent influences.
DeleteI have had the desire for real spankings as long as I can remember, but definitely since long before adolescence. I remember how I couldn't stop thinking about being sent to the principals office (school type discipline is still a GIGANTIC fantasy for me), but could never bring myself to do anything bad enough. And then I remember how fascinated I was with every story of initiations for different things (yet another huge fantasy) or rites of passage. So these thoughts been with me forever.
DeleteI have tried to understand it but to no avail. It is difficult for me to understand how I can be otherwise strong and generally quite confident (including with women), but still desire for my wife to dominate and punish me sometimes. Or how hot it makes me knowing that she has absolute authority to punish me at any time, with reason or without, hard or soft, whether I think it is fair or unfair. It is impossible for me to understand how I can want and need something so badly all the time, knowing that it will be very unpleasant or perhaps even unbearable at the time that it is happening. And then it is stranger still knowing that as soon as it is over, I will feel so happy that it happened, and after a while will start wanting it to happen again.
While nobody really understands exactly why some of us are wired this way, it seems that if we are, there is no "getting over it" since it is very much a part of us. I was married to someone who detested it, so I tried to live without it but honestly I was miserable with that and I am sure that my large unmet need affected every part of our relationship.
So now I am pragmatic about it. I know that I need it from time time time. It makes me incredibly hot even thinking about it any time. It makes me feel very peaceful, relaxed, and even closer than normal to her (and we are already very very close) when it does happen. I don't understand it, probably never will, and have pretty much quit trying. But my amazing wife is happy to do it sometimes, and I am happy to have it happen as often as she feels like it, so that seems like a pretty good arrangement!
I find it fascinating that someone raised the the "nature vs. nurture" question. In all these years it never once occurred to me that it was even a possibility that the desire for spanking could be wired in at birth.
DeleteIn my own opinion (which is still open to modification now that the topic has been introduced to my brain) It's not the kind of thing that would be wired in as a native instinct; except maybe to avoid it.
It's a positive testimonial to this blog that we have those kinds of conversations.
forgot to sign my comment just a minute ago!
ReplyDelete- ZM
If a husband or bf is to be seriously punished by spanking, he should be completely sexually relieved first. With no arousal to take the edge off the pain, the spanking will be almost unbearable. The sexual release before the spanking will be paid for times 10 if a hard spanking afterwards is given.
ReplyDeleteI have read about this several places but have never experienced it. Supposedly it makes the spanking much more painful without causing more damage. I have heard similar things about spanking a wet bottom or shaving a bottom right before the punishment to increase sensitivity. Of course I am very curious about this and want to experience it sometime, but I also fear it a bit. Since my lovely wife makes all decisions about when, how, and how much I am punished, I think I will leave the decision to her about when and if these spanking enhancements are used, and certainly won't be asking her to do it!!
DeleteI would think this would best be reserved for more severe spankings, when she is really wanting to make a point, rather than less serious spankings. Or maybe she would just have to do this once and in the future the implied threat that it could happen again would increase the excitement/fear factor of "normal" punishments, making them more impactful?
-ZM
I have yet to experience that, and find it intimidating enough that I have not suggested it. The sexual arousal certainly does take the edge off, so the lack of that is very worrisome.
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