The Club - Meeting 489 - Spanking/Disciplinary Authority and Its Limits (If Any)

"Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor.” - Theodore Roosevelt

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to thank the female commenters who have recently joined us and to extend a specific invitation to all others who may be inclined to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We like having you around.  

 

I decided to post a little early, since I took a full week off and have a lot going on this weekend. And, I miss the discussion.

 

I hope you all had a great week.  Ours was busy, with a week-long road trip leaving us glad to be back in our own house this weekend. Travel always seems to bring out the worst in me, but I felt like we had less bickering than on past trips.  Anne admits I’m right about that, yet she still announced her intention to deliver a spanking for what she viewed as several instances of snarkiness or annoyance.

 

 

Since we were in an RV, there technically was nothing stopping her from giving me a spanking on the spot. And, while she’s threatened it a couple of times now, several days later I’m still waiting and wondering if/when it will happen.

 

I do understand why she didn’t spank while we were camping, however.  Our trip spanned a holiday weekend, and there were other campers and tents all around us most nights.  A spanking delivered under those circumstances definitely would have been in line with this captioned photo:

 

 

Although Anne’s openness to being more open about her authority and about my spankings has jumped by leaps and bounds this year, it still hasn’t gone quite that far.   

 

And, that’s sort of the topic for this week.  How far do things go? How far should they?

 

I got to thinking about this in part because of an AI-generated story that Julie of the Strict Julie Spanks blog posted.  It is VERY long, but I would encourage you to give it a read, as it provides some context for today’s post.

 

The basic storyline probably is a familiar one to F/m spanking enthusiasts who have a disciplinary bent.  A wife, one with some innate dominant tendencies, stumbles on a magazine her husband had hidden away.  It has strong F/m domestic discipline themes.  

 

But, unlike the many stories in which (a) the wife confronts the husband, (b) he reluctantly admits his DD interest, and (c) they live happily ever after in a DD household, in this story the wife chooses not to confront her husband with her discovery but, instead, starts making suggestive comments and subtly bossing him around, to test the waters and start inching him in a particular direction. 

 

Between the two of them, "Emily" is the much stronger player, and she clearly aspires to be the real leader in the relationship, and not just a vehicle for servicing "John's" DD kink. In fact, her sense of having real authority depends to a large extent on not feeding his fantasies initially. 

 

She realizes that what she proposes to do will leverage his erotic interests in the long run, but first she wants to edge him toward accepting real authority from her in the absence of the anticipated erotic thrill.  She will nudge him toward submission first, then spring a real disciplinary spanking on him when a real opportunity presents itself, i.e. when he truly misbehaves but doesn't know he will be spanked for it.

 

And, of course, the opportunity does present itself.  Her husband acts up, he gets a  spanking he never saw coming, and he now has to wrestle with the reality of her authority without any pre-existing agreement about its bounds. 

 

The rest of the story is a series of vignettes in which we see the couple moving further and further into FLR territory, including her becoming much more open about her authority and more dismissive of his attempts to condition or limit it.   

 

There are verbal dressings down when he acts up in a store, followed by a spanking in a private area but with the sales girls knowing its happening.   

 

A spanking in a restaurant bathroom when he mistreats a waitress. The waitress walks in and witnesses, and he has to continue to take the spanking, mortified by the whole scene

 

Later, a spanking at the family BBQ in front of everyone.  Worse, instead of accepting the punishment and moving on, he sulks about it, culminating in a belting from Emily's strict disciplinary father. 

 

At each step, John gets punished, fails to learn a lesson, acts up again, and gets a more embarrassing punishment.  After each escalation he pouts and pleads, but she:

 

• rejects his attempt to limit her authority and, instead, adamantly asserts her total control over his discipline; and
• points out that he could easily have avoided the embarrassment and pain of his increasingly public spankings by not misbehaving in the face of known consequences.
  

 

In short, Emily moves things along incrementally, methodically employing an increasingly brazen form of “anytime, anywhere, for any reason.”

 

 

 Early on, she warns him:

 

“I want what’s best for you, for us. But you need to understand that I’m serious about this. If it takes a little public reminder to keep you on track, then so be it. It’s for your own good.”

 

The story got me thinking not so much about public punishments per se, but about a wife’s decision to really embrace those characteristics we often say we want. We (some of us anyway) say we want our wives to be strict. Unyielding. Resolved. Demanding. 

 

And, some of us want, or think we want, our wives to be willing to escalate in whatever way is necessary to bring about real behavioral change. 

 

 

Julie’s AI-generated story pushes a lot of buttons for those of us who have this perverse attraction to being subject to someone else’s strongly wielded authority. 

 

A public scolding. A scolding in front of a sibling that includes unmistakable hints at the existence of the DD or FLR relationship. 

 

An overheard spanking. Semi-public spankings. Witnessed spankings. Spankings by the wife's father, in the presence of the whole family.

 

Although Julie obviously guided it along, the AI platform did a surprisingly good job, in my opinion, of getting into the psychology of adult spanking as experienced by those of us whose interest is rooted in a desire for imposed authority.

 

For me, it was a timely read, because I’ve been thinking more and more lately about the extent to which I have a craving for Anne to take things in a more emotionally challenging direction.

 

When I think back over our 20 years in this lifestyle, the spankings that really stand out have little to do with the spanking itself.  Instead, they tend to involve times when she took things in a direction I didn’t see coming or to a level that really pushed some emotional buttons. 

 

In the very early days, when we tallied up a minimum number of swats for identified offenses, I had a "bad week," resulting in a seriously intimidating number of swats with the heavy fraternity-style paddle. Much like John in the story, I expressed concern that I couldn’t take it, having never taken anything close to that many before. To this day, I vividly remember Anne showing no mercy, telling me, “Well, that’s too bad because you earned it. You are going to take it.”

 

Or, there was the first time she called me at the office, telling me to come home at lunch for a serious strapping, sending me back to work to sit on a very sore bottom.

 

There was the first time she gave me a surprisingly hard spanking for repeatedly failing to do a household chore correctly.

 

Or, the first time she alluded very openly to the prospect of her spanking me, when others were within earshot.  I don’t think they heard, but they could have.

 

Or, the first time she really lit into me with a lecture that was cutting and really hurt my pride. But, after sulking about it for a couple of weeks, I accepted that it had been deserved. I also accepted that maybe it didn't really matter whether I accepted.

 

Today, even with the benefit of 20 years of increasing self-awareness about why I want and need this lifestyle, my strong desire for imposed authority leads to a very complicated mix of feelings. 

 

In virtually every other aspect of my life, I won't tolerate being subject to someone else's dictates.  Yet, in my marriage, I crave it.  Well, I crave it except when it's actually happening.

 

I think I did recognize early on that my attraction to DD included a perverse need to have my emotional boundaries pushed, but not with the clarity I have today.  

 

And, back then I didn't get that my DD fascination was related more to being subject to my wife's authority than to her spankings per se.

 

I’m not sure why it took me so long to really understand that aspect of my attraction, since broad female authority was replete in the DWC website content and handbooks that kicked off my interest in DD. Aunt Kay emphasized repeatedly what she saw as the very broad authority bestowed on disciplinary wives:

 

“A relationship where the woman of the house applies discipline to the men in her life, whenever and however she sees fit, is a happier, healthier and better world.”

 

“The first thing you must do is to explain the golden rule of your proposed (or existing) disciplinary relationship. He must render complete obedience to you with regard to disciplinary issues at all times and must be willing to carry out any and all orders you give him without question or hesitation.”

 

“If you feel the least bit sorry for him during all this, remember, a submissive man does not want a weak or lenient woman. He wants someone very strict and dominant. If he wanted anything different, he wouldn't be over your knees in the first place.”

 

“The definition of a DWC relationship is that the woman’s role involves providing moral and behavioral guidance to the man and invests in her the absolute authority to decide upon and wield punishments accordingly. The man’s role is to accept this authority and strive to gain benefit from it.”

 

“Receiving benefit from discipline begins well before you ever reach the point of actually experiencing an old-fashioned spanking.  It begins with your awareness of your wife’s personal power and your belief that she is indeed the right woman to handle you.  Expect to be obedient!”

 

“Remember where it all began.  You asked your wife to please take over your discipline.  You have empowered her to assume the maternal role and have agreed to take the child role with respect to discipline. You want, more than anything else, for her to be powerful, assertive and in control.  It is a beautiful thing, really. Your obedience and compliance will greatly assist her in reaching her full potential.”

 

I recall feeling gut-punched the first time I read the stories on the DWC website.  Twenty years later, it’s not surprising that DD has lost some of that emotional edge.  Yet, perhaps because I miss that emotional edginess, I find myself increasingly attracted to the idea of Anne becoming increasingly strict and increasingly open.

 

 

Yet, how would I react if she actually did? Would I have cooperated with a spanking in a crowded campground?

 

Honestly, I’m pretty sure I would have. Although I’m incredibly anti-authoritarian in all my other relationships, somehow I have accepted Anne’s authority so thoroughly that I have a hard time imagining truly balking at anything she might order, no matter how embarrassing.   

 

I’m sure I would argue and maybe even plead, but an actual refusal? Not likely at this point.

 

When I mentally place myself in each of the scenarios in Julie’s story, would I have given in, as John did?   

 

Accept a spanking in a place where it likely would be overheard? Yes.

 

Accept her letting others know about our relationship, on her terms?  Yes.

 

 

Accept being spanked in front of witnesses of her choosing?  Yes.

 

Accept being spanked by a family member, or anyone else, at her direction? Yes.

 

Many of us say we want an “anytime, anywhere, for any reason” approach to our wife’s authority. But, as someone pointed out, it’s really the first two of those that are where the rubber meets the road.

 

If we really want to fix problematic behavior, should the approach taken by Emily of escalating in whatever way is necessary, including public embarrassment, be on the table?

 

You could say this is about the distinction between a DD relationship and an FLR, but I’m not sure that’s all that helpful.  Some here insist that they are not in FLRs, yet when they describe the extent of their wife’s disciplinary authority, it sounds FLR-ish to me.  While we may have a general consensus on what something like Femdom entails, we don’t have nearly such a clear sense of where a DD relationship ends and an FLR begins, do we?

 

Regardless of what label you might assign to your relationship, how does it operate in terms of the breadth and depth of the wife’s authority? To what extent does the wife have the express authority to determine the where, when and why of it all? 

 

 

For the men, to what extent has she pushed that authority in ways you found difficult or embarrassing at the time? To what extent do you want her to push those situational boundaries in a way that you might find really difficult?  If you plow through Julie’s story, are there particular scenarios you think would challenge you the most?  Would you actually refuse to cooperate with a spanking-related decision made by your wife, or is it really anywhere, anytime, for any reason? In practice as well as in theory?

 

For the women, how do you view the extent of your disciplinary authority? Is it as broad (potentially or in reality) as Emily's in the story? Would you want it to be? 

 

Is the idea of exercising that kind of control something you find appealing, even if you might never go there in reality?

If your husband was like “John,” constantly acting like a child or embarrassing you in front of others, what would your level of compunction be about taking him to task publicly?  Where are the lines? 

 

To what extent do you feel comfortable escalating in whatever way it takes to root out the behavior you don’t like?  When he does repeat the same bad behavior, is the escalation path simply more spankings? Harder spankings? 

 

Or, would showing your authority in public be on the table?  What about giving a spanking where it almost surely would be overheard, like KOJ's tale of being taken to a room and spanked during a crowded party?  His reaction to the experience sums up my current morbid attraction to having my emotional boundaries pushed:

 

“I also totally agree that escalating the punishment to semi-public had a profound effect on me and our relationship. It planted a healthy fear in my heart and made it clear how much authority she really wielded!”

 

It’s that healthy fear of what she might do that I feel like I’m wanting, though I am very well aware of how it likely would rock my emotional world if it actually happened.

 

Have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 488 - Spanking for Carelessness

You learn a lot more from the lows because it makes you pay attention to what you're doing.” – John Elway

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.

 

I hope you all had a good week. I’ve gotten in a couple of fun motorcycle day-trips in the last couple of weeks.  I’m trying to cram in as much fun as I can before we go into a state of suspended animation thanks to the injuries and consequent medical procedures I alluded to a few weeks ago. 

 

 

And, speaking of cramming in fun, Anne and I probably are going to try to squeeze in an RV trip in over the next few days, which means it’s fairly likely I won’t be posting next week.

 

Before I get to a topic for this week, I wanted to do one quick follow-up regarding last week’s topic.  The comments kicked off with a couple of strongly negative opinions regarding the possibility of kids—even our adult kids—finding out about our DD lifestyles.

 

Given how strong the reaction was from a couple of people, it got me curious about what, if anything, they have done to ensure that no one, including the kids, would find out about the lifestyle if, heaven forbid, the worst happened and you shuffled off this mortal coil, leaving some interesting toys and instruments behind. And, it's something that even those who aren't as concerned about others knowing still might want to think through.

 

I’ve always loved this cartoon by KD Pierre, which raises the comedic issue of an elder passing and leaving behind some hints that their life had been maybe a bit more “colorful” than her relatives realized.

 

I’m probably a bit more sensitive to this issue than most, because of some early life experiences with close relatives dying very unexpectedly.  It’s always been in the back of mind that every day really could be your last.

 

In our case, I don’t remember exactly how it came up, but at some point I told the vanilla friend who knows about our DD lifestyle that I kept all the instruments in a footlocker-like box in a closet. Once when we were going on an adventurous trip without the kids, she asked whether I wanted her to try to spirit the box out of the house if anything were to happen to us.  I had listed her as the executor on our wills, and she was the godmother of one of our kids, so it wouldn’t have been unusual for her to have a role in handling our estate and belongings.  Today, I’m not sure what would happen.  The footlocker still exists, but the tools are scattered around in various places, as are some of my hand-written journals discussing DD. 

 

So, the simple answer is that, if something happened to us, our kids would almost certainly quickly discover nearly everything about our DD relationship.  Which is fine with me, but others reacted with such concern, I’m curious if they’ve done anything to ensure ongoing confidentiality, in the event the worst were to happen.

 

In terms of how bad the reaction of adult kids might be, my own intuition is in-line with what several others expressed, namely that they probably would be fine with it or, most likely, they wouldn’t care that much one way or another. 

 

ZM summed it up well in responding to one of Norton’s comments:

 

"Being held accountable for my behavior has had a profound and positive affect on my life and my relationship. It would be great to be able to share our DD with others, but any attempts we made were met with disinterest." - Hahaha. That is one of the main observations my wife and I made when it came to telling others. In our minds, it was such a HUGE deal, but the fact is, most people simply don't think that much about what others do or really care. They might find it mildly interesting, or even perhaps slightly amusing, but unless they too are wired more like some of us, they are probably likely to not really think about it much (if ever) again.

 

I expect that same thing would hold at least somewhat true with grown-up kids. Probably they would think about it more, since they are closer to the situation, but it might be just reflecting on things and trying to see if there were signs of this relationship dynamic that they missed or something like that. In the end, our grown-up kids have plenty to think about in their own lives, and this probably wouldn't get a lot of mind-share.”

 

Al pointed out that even if the kids aren’t aware of DD, they may become aware at the more subtle changes in attitudes and displayed roles:

 

“However, I do know that they are both very aware (especially the older child) that there came a point when I was noticeably more respectful, and showed greater deference, to my wife than I had before - as well as Susan becoming obviously more assertive in her interaction with me, especially when it came to my behavior and attitude.”

 

As I noted in response, one of our adult kids asked my wife about the fact that she seemed to increasingly be in charge and making more of the decisions.  Kids are perceptive and probably know or intuit more than we like to think.

 

In a great cautionary note, however, AE pointed out that it’s not just about what kids might think about DD, but whether they have the discretion to keep it to themselves. 

 

“TE and I have a daughter who is still elementary age. She knows nothing about our DD and I would prefer to keep it that way for a while (probably a long while). She’s seen me playfully slap TE with an oven mitt in the kitchen for being in my way and she still talks about it several years later. I don’t trust her understanding or discretion at this point. That being said, I can’t say there will never be time when she’s grown that I won’t feel differently, we’re just in a stage of life where that’s unknown.”

 

As for this week’s topic, it’s more a series of personal anecdotes that illustrate one direction I hope our DD goes in after we get through this medical-related hiatus.

 

Over the last couple of years, I’ve gotten more intrigued about DD’s application to simple carelessness.  Things that don’t represent big character failings, malicious conduct, disobedience, or bad attitude. Instead, I’m talking about those times when we are sloppy or do things in an absent-minded or half-assed way.

 

 

When we first started DD and, honestly, for probably most of the first 18 or 19 years in the lifestyle, Anne focused her attention what I think we both saw as big behavioral failures. Drinking too much or too often. Temper tantrums. Behaving in a way that she saw as being rude, embarrassing, or boorish in the presence of others.

 

Although our general rule, from the beginning, was that she could spank for any reason, in reality most of the focus has always been on bigger issues or things that involve a failure to obey agreed-upon rules. 

Conversely, there hasn’t been much focus on simple carelessness, even though careless acts and omissions have probably cost as much time and money, and placed my health and safety at as much risk, as some of the “big ticket” stuff she has consistently addressed.

 

Most of the times, I'm the one who pays the price in time, anxiety, and aggravation, but that doesn't mean that acts of carelessness couldn't extend to things that do affect Anne, if they generally go unaddressed.

For some reason, it’s shown up a lot in my hobbies and recreational activities.  The first time I recall really wanting a significant spanking for an act of carelessness was on a group motorcycle trip a couple of years ago. The trip included some tough terrain.  Unfortunately, one of my tires was significantly worn, but I didn’t notice it until it was too late to get it replaced.  I decided to risk it and, while no great disaster ensued, it did cause some significant problems and made certain parts of the trip much more dicey than they should have been. I also forgot to bring some necessary equipment, despite having an exhaustive checklist to work from.

 

This year, when I went on a similar trip, I did a better job with ensuring everything was maintained and that I had the right equipment, yet there were still some problems that occurred as a result of not maximizing some things I knew I should, in face, maximize.  There was also one fairly significant incident in which, though I didn’t initiate the carelessness, I went along with a traveling companion’s insistence on something that I knew in my gut was going to cause us a significant problem, and it did.

 

On a more minor scale, last year I failed to winterize our van before the first significant freeze, and I ended up spending the better part of two days chasing down and repairing water leaks.

 

And, then, just a week ago, I did something on my motorcycle that was just plain stupid and could have caused a very significant and expensive amount of damage.  In the end, it turned out okay, but it could have been a very costly lesson to simply pay more attention.This drawing shows the context for the punishment that should have happened in a just world.

While it was a genuine mistake, it was a dumb, easily preventable mistake.

 

I realize I have an out-sized need for personal accountability and that sometimes we need to treat a mistake as a mistake.

 

Yet, I also believe that lack of accountability on even genuine mistakes has

ripple effects. 

 

I do think that as I’ve gotten further into early retirement, some of the “big ticket” bad behavior has declined.  However, avoiding the avoidable costs and frustrations of daily life is worth focusing on, given that simple carelessness sometimes does result in substantial costs in money and time. 

 

And, when I'm undisciplined and sloppy in small, everyday areas, that can't help but spill over into bigger things.

 

It's kind of like the "broken windows" approach to policing, in which crime prevention focuses on things like petty vandalism and graffiti, because those petty crimes degrade the neighborhood and give people less of a sense that the rules matter.

 

In the past, I could excuse some simply fuck-ups on the basis that I was crushingly busy and couldn’t always stay on top of everything. Truth be told, however, that level of busyness was a reason to get more organized and systematic, not a good excuse for being less so. 

 

We’ve talked here before about the value in being disciplined for “small” things, but I don’t see some of my instances of carelessness as all that small.  Some could have become real safety issues and others could have cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars to repair.  That I have avoided those consequences most of the time has been more about luck than skill. 

 

I recognize that my tendency to wing it has cost me and others time and, in some cases, caused a fair amount of stress and worry. And, in a couple of the instances described above, I have gotten very mad at myself.

 

That’s why I think I’m so attracted to this captioned picture and have posted it a few times.  To me it exemplifies the idea of getting spanked sometimes for results, regardless of the intent that led to them.

 

It's an attitude that I think was pretty common among parents when I was growing up and a kid failed to take care of an expensive toy or destroyed something through carelessness, inattention, or rambunctiousness.

 

It’s the attitude I hope Anne will take about this carelessness stuff going forward. 

 

I feel like the focus needs to be on both the act or omission and on the result. Or, perhaps even more so, on the potential result. It may be that relatively minor act of inattention or carelessness should earn a very bad spanking if a seriously negative result was avoided by sheer luck. And, like with failing to winterize our RV on time, some fairly minor consequences are so avoidable that they too should earn at substantial reminder to pay freaking attention!

 

 

How do our disciplined husbands and Disciplinary Wives feel about this?  Does she spank for simple carelessness?  Should she?  Give us some examples of careless than has been or should be punishable.

 

Have a great week.

The Club - Meeting 487 - Whether, When, and How Much Should They Know About Your Domestic Discipline Relationship?

“The more a daughter knows the details of her mother's life [...] the stronger the daughter.” - Anita Diamant, The Red Tent.

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  Mine was pretty good, with the exception of one monumentally stupid act of carelessness while out on a motorcycle ride.  It’s unclear whether I will be spanked for it, but I definitely should be even though everything turned out okay in the end.  Perhaps more on that in a later post . . .

 

 

I’ve begun several recent posts with a general invitation to our female readers to join in on our conversation.  Recently, a few have taken me up on it.  I hope they and a few more will join in on this post specifically, as I think it is one on which they might have a particularly valuable perspective.

 

We’ve had a few posts in the past about when (if ever) and how much kids—including but not limited to our now-adult progeny—should know about our DD lifestyle.

 

I got to thinking about it again, and thought perhaps some of our Disciplinary Wives might have a particular interest, after this comment a few weeks ago from “DD”:

 

I haven't checked the blog in a while, lots of good stuff in the recent posts. I had to comment that, while I don’t see the disciplinary relationship with my wife as maternal, a few months ago there was an incident that definitely had that feeling. I was playing video games with my son one night and my wife came in and told us to shut it down as it was a school/work night and bedtime for all of us. Being in the zone, we imprudently ignored her orders and played for another hour, time getting away from us. Well the next morning my wife knew what time we went to bed and was not happy. She scolded us both thoroughly in the kitchen for disobeying her. She had my son sit at the kitchen table and write lines, she then turned to me and told me I was not getting out of it either and that I would be getting punished. She walked me down the hall and for a good 10 minutes gave me a severe belting over the bed and an additional scolding on disobeying her and not enforcing her orders in front of our son. She then had me take our son to school and clarify what should have happened.”

 

I asked whether his son knew he had gotten a spanking. He responded:

 

"We do not explicitly tell our kids I get spanked, but they are very aware my wife is the authority in the household and that she is the disciplinarian. He knew that "mom" was upset and was taking me to our room to "deal with me". I am not sure what he could hear from the kitchen, but I think there have been some times they may have overheard my wife scolding or spanking me behind closed doors. There have also been other times they knew she was upset with me and took me to the room to deal with it. The dynamic has actually kept arguing and fighting in front of the kids to a minimum. They see enough to know I misbehaved and that it is going to get addressed but no arguing or fighting in front of them, and anything they might overhear is clearly not arguing or fighting either but a one-sided lecture/scolding and me getting disciplined with a well-deserved spanking."

 

Now, I know many of the commenters here—maybe most—would object to kids in the household knowing that dad gets spanked.  There could be any number of reasons for that.

 

Perhaps they see spanking as inherently sexual and, hence, something that should be kept away from kids by all means necessary.  Of course, after kids hit a certain age, they do know their parents have sex, right?  So, I assume something more than inherent sexuality may be at play for those who want to keep the DD part of their parental relationship strictly secret.

 

Some may also think that the hierarchy involved in a DD, and especially an FLR, relationship might be confusion for the kids and diminishing for the husband/father.

 

I know this has been Anne’s thinking, or part of it anyway. She has told me that when the kids were growing up, she was concerned that knowing about our DD/FLR relationship might lead the kids to think less of me.

 

 

I suppose that could happen, but she was much more concerned about it than I ever was.  My view was that I worked my ass off and sacrificed some of my own lifestyle desires over a lot of years to give my kids a stable home, great educations, etc.  If after all that they were to learn about the DD aspects of our relationship and lose respect for me . . . well . . . fuck ‘em.

 

But, I don’t think that is how it would turn out.

 

And, I do think they have figured out at least that our relationship isn’t quite typical.  A few years back, one of them commented to me wife that she seemed to make a lot of the decisions and basically “wore the pants.”  Making something up on the fly, my wife noted that I had a large scale, very demanding career that involved directing a lot of people and making a lot of big decisions. She said that it was stressful and that, when at home, I preferred to leave a lot of the decision-making to someone else.

 

It was a pretty benign explanation, but I think the fact that the question was asked at all says a lot about what they may have intuited.

 

Or, maybe it was more than intuition. Kids can be snoopy.  Who knows whether one of them came upon a journal or a spanking instrument that was inadvertently left out.

 

And, of course, a couple of years ago once they were both out of the house and on with their own adult lives, Anne started leaving her bath brush and ebony hairbrush on display on the counter in our master bath. Again, our kids aren’t dumb or imperceptive.

 

Still, while we probably weren’t quite as secretive as some, we did take reasonable precautions to keep the DD aspects of the relationship private and, hopefully, unknown to the kids.

 

Yet, I’ve always been intrigued by those like “DD” and his wife who, if not totally out in the open, didn’t exactly try to hide it either.

 

 

It doesn’t seem to be very common.  In the 10+ years I’ve been doing this blog, there have been only a handful of commenters who have said that they knew growing up that their father was subject to domestic discipline, and those seemed to involve a more or less passive understanding of the situation. There was no open discussion about it. Rather, it was just kind of in the background. 

 

One of the rare examples of a Disciplinary Wife who grew up in a household where her own mom was openly in charge was a commenter from a few years back named “Holly.” She recounted how her mom’s status was just always there in the background, though never discussed.

 

"There wasn’t any time I wasn’t aware of domestic discipline. Mom spanked our dad, never in front of us, but when she took him into the bedroom there was no doubt what was going on and anyone in the house could hear it. I didn’t think much of it except that mom was definitely in charge, which everyone knew anyway."

 

Later, after her young and immature husband started acting up, her mother openly advocated that she should take up the paddle or strap. 

 

 

She resisted at first because she thought her mother had been too ready to spank for every offense, but she came around as her husband’s behavior worsened. 

 

While she was one of the seemingly rare examples in which the wife instigated the DD relationship, she had reason to believe her husband would accept it and might even want it and, of course, she had seen how her mother had kept her father in-line.

 

“I knew it was real from the first spanking I administered because I knew men can be managed with a strap if a woman is determined. I had also suspected for a while my husband wanted this. Our dating relationship really became serious when he found out my father was punished. He never directly asked me to take control, but I was certain he would accept it, and I was right since I received no resistance when I told him what was coming. Also, the way he stripped and presented his ass to me on command convinced me I was right.”

 

So, Holly was the rare woman who observed (or overheard) her mother spanking her father, whose mother discussed it with her at an appropriate time in life, who went on to tell her future husband about it, and who later went on to impose (sort of) a Domestic Discipline relationship herself.

 

From time to time, I get questions from parents with young kids about how to achieve any kind of DD consistency with kids in the house.

 

One answer is, of course, to do what Holly’s mother did – don’t worry about keeping it secret.

 

I understand why most couples will reject that as a solution, though I still wonder how things might have developed had Anne gone there.  I feel like she’s made more progrees in the last couple of years than in the previous twenty.  What might have happened if she’d been as open back then as she is today, when even today she’s not exactly “out” but, rather, just not that concerned anymore about what others think? 

 

Moreover, what about once the kids are grown, or at least young adults?  Is the DD or FLR side of your relationship something that should be kept from them once they are off on their own?  Or, was Holly’s mom right to be relatively open about being in charge and disciplining the father, culminating in the mother openly advocating that Holly take up the paddle?

 

 

Why is it the case that even once our kids become adults and move on to their own relationships we still seem to be intent on keeping the DD aspect of our relationship secret from them?

 

Aren’t we supposed to try to give our kids--or perhaps their spouses--the benefit of our parental wisdom?  If you think DD is something that has helped your own marriage, or if you think it helps your own performance or your mental/emotional wellbeing, shouldn’t you share that with your adult kids for their own potential benefit?

 

Those benefits could take a lot of forms.  Perhaps, like Holly’s mother, you have a daughter who needs to take charge of her own ill-behaved husband. 

 

 (I like the scenario this meme proposes, but is it really that hard to proofread three or four sentences ??)

 

Or, maybe your darling son (or daughter) is having a hard time growing up and could profit from being on the receiving end of the marital paddle or strap. 

 

Honestly, I don't know how open we will be in the years to come. As some of our commenter KOJ’s stories reveal, things like retirement can cause people to be way more open than they might have once thought possible

 

Although I’ve probably never been as concerned about keeping things from our kids as Anne has been, at this point I've pretty much decided that I would be okay with them knowing everything at a general level, whether about the disciplinary spankings or about our blooming FLR, or both.

 

Though I don't care if they know, I don’t have any desire to talk to them about it myself.  And, given the gender dynamics, if it were to be openly revealed, that probably should come from Anne.  I don’t think she’s there yet, and in my view that’s maybe an opportunity missed, as I think it would be empowering for her. And, while they are adults and capable of making their own choices, it still might be a great thing for them to see the example of a strong woman, fully and openly in charge at home. 

 

Feel free to discuss any aspect of this post that resonates with you, but here are a few specific questions to get you started:

 

Were either of your own parents disciplined by the other parent when you were growing up? 

 

Are your kids aware of you disciplinary relationship? 

 

For those of you who are in an FLR, are your kids aware that the wife is the leader in the marriage? 

 

Have you ever spanked or been spanked by your spouse while the kids were in the house or might overhear? 

 

If your kids are not aware of your DD or FLR relationship, might you tell them or let them find out about it in the future?At what age might it be appropriate?

 

Does the kid's gender effect your view in any way?  

 

 If your daughter married a man with maturity or performance problems, would you pass along some helpful hints that maybe she should educate herself about DD?   

 

What if you had an immature or misbehaving son? Would you ever suggest to him (or to his frustrated daughter-in-law) that maybe disciplinary spankings could give him the structure and boundaries he seems to need?

 

Have a great week.

 

And, speaking of kids, one last pic combining kids and my current obsessive hobby.

 

 

The Club - Meeting 486 - Grounding and Other Non-Spanking Punishments

The ability to have a choice in what you do is a privilege.” - Anton Yelchin

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.

 

I hope you all had a good week.  I feel like mine sort of passed in the blink of an eye.  I spent some time adding farkles to a new motorcycle, which I purchased before figuring out that most of my late spring and early fall were about to go “poof” in the face of medical interferences.  I finally got some imaging back on mine, confirming what I suspected. But, there’s some chance several weeks of physical therapy and limited activity might let me avoid another surgery.  Unfortunately, that’s definitely not in the cards for Anne, who will not exemplify this meme for quite some time:

 

I’m still trying to get my head around this unpleasant reality.  I’ve been practicing various forms of meditation and Zen for a lot of years, and I’ve always found that the hardest thing to break our attachments to is our own plans. And, most of us generally suck at predicting whether the things we want to do will actually turn out to be good for us, and often times it is the stuff that makes us the most uncomfortable and is the most disruptive that is the most constructive.  So, I’m trying to keep an open mind about how the next few months will play out in terms of positive and negative impacts on our lives. 

 

 Maybe it’s because I’m acutely aware of the frustration of best laid plans being disrupted that this topic suggestion from Anonymous, from several weeks ago, jumped out at me this week:

 

"Grounding as a method of punishment. It's a topic that doesn't get nearly enough discussion as opposed to spanking and really needs to." 

In addition to being intimately related to frustrated plans, grounding and other non-spanking punishments may have to come into play while Anne is incapacitated.  So, the topic is timely (for me) for multiple reasons.

 

We have experimented with grounding from time-to-time, though I think I use the term more broadly than some others do.  I apply it to any order that restricts my freedom of action, while I think others see it more narrowly as being confined to staying at home instead of hanging with friends or going to social activities. In this post, I'll use it in the broader sense.

 

We didn't use it often, but when we did “grounding” usually consisted of an order not to drink alcohol, and perhaps to be home from work at a particular time.  Although we did dabble in it, and I felt it had the potential to be very effective, it never really took root.  

It was an inherently difficult punishment to enforce back when I was working, because I was constantly traveling for business, and even when working out of my usual office, there was a lot of team and client-oriented socializing.  That stuff really was important to career development and associated earning capacity, so Anne would have been cutting off her nose to spite her face had she regularly imposed strict limits on my ability to socialize with others.

 

Yet, even if spanking has been our primary form of punishment since we began our DWC relationship, grounding has always intrigued me, perhaps because it was always out there as a possibility. It's never been something I've seen as a replacement for spanking, but it's certainly something that could supplement one.

 

So, given that I do have an interest in it, why haven’t I devoted topics to it more often?  Mainly because when I’ve done so in the past, the array of negative responses have tended to illustrate only how central spanking is to many men’s disciplinary interest, to the exclusion of all other means of discipline and punishment.

Yet, the longer I’m in this lifestyle, the more I’m open to the proposition that the more I dislike a particular punishment or aspect of our disciplinary relationship, the more it probably is real punishment or discipline.

I think Aunt Kay probably felt the same way.  Although the Disciplinary Wives Club and its website were devoted primarily to adult spanking, Aunt Kay clearly saw a DWC-style relationship as encompassing the full range of maternal discipline. In that vein, I found this in one of the DWC publications:

 

“The DWC is all about reality, special relationships, love and trust. The sort of trust that would enable a strong man to weep in his wife's arms after a licking, and then gently being led to the corner while drying his eyes. The sort of trust that would enable a woman to administer a strong dose of woodshed medicine to a man she loves and likes. The sort of trust that would allow a man to accept scolding, groundings, time-outs and penance tasks, just because his disciplinarian has determined he needs it.”

 

It's also clear that Aunt Kay’s references to groundings applied in her own relationship. In preparing this post, I found this comment from Aunt Kay’s husband (who went by “Tomy” when commenting here) on one of the prior posts on this topic:

 

“I have been mulling over the topic of "alternative punishments" since you started it last week. Like most of the other respondents, spanking is by far the usual consequence around here. But on rare occasions she imposes an "alternative punishment." What I have come to realize, thanks to your topic question, is that they are, in many ways, worse.

 

For some reason, being sent to bed, forbidden television, and things like that are SO frustrating that it's almost unendurable. It actually makes me feel even more helpless than submitting to a spanking. When it happens, I feel really angry inside; deeply frustrated. But expressing that is not an option. So, I have to do what I am told.

 

Technically speaking, around here "alternative" is not usually the right word. For us the more accurate word would be "additional.”” 

So, to me, grounding isn't a replacement for a spanking, but it is another tool in her arsenal.  One that her husband might find particularly adversive -- even more so than a spanking.  

As I think has been on display here fairly frequently in recent weeks, some men like spanking a little too much and its unclear just how disciplinary their spankings really are. I've always believed that a wife who wants to impose real discipline must adjust her methods to account for what her husband finds truly punishing and what he doesn't.  

As kids, we might have done anything to avoid a spanking, including taking a week of grounding. As adults, I suspect it often would be the opposite.

You can include me among those who really hates the thought of being grounded.  But, it probably shouldn’t be surprising that I’m intrigued by grounding as a punishment, given that I’ve come to realize and accept just how much my interest in Domestic Discipline is grounded in the “maternal” archetype that the DWC alluded to fairly often. One of our frequent commenters from a few years back, Danielle, really picked up on the connection between maternal discipline and alternative punishments in a lengthy comment really challenging me on how far I was interested in taking it:

“So, WHAT IF Anne pushed the adult/minor dynamic to its logical conclusion? She has already taken a step in that direction by assigning you chores and warning you not to forget to lock the doors under threat of being spanked. But if she really wants to exercise her authority in a “maternal” way, I think she should consider deploying the full range of disciplinary tools that adults employ with minors. In other words, in addition to spankings, she could consider consequences like grounding, loss of privileges, early bedtimes, etc. She could also consider limiting your personal discretionary spending by putting you on an allowance which could be suspended for disciplinary purposes as she deems appropriate. She could impose curfews and require you to get her permission if you wanted to go out for drinks after work. From what you have said previously, I believe you would find those auxiliary measures more truly humbling and embarrassing than simply having your bottom paddled.

 

Let’s push the parent/minor analogy a step farther. If you were really a minor, there would be no reason for Anne to hide her authoritarian status from other people. So, if I was Anne, I would probably let some select group of people (maybe certain friends or family members) in on the secret that she wields real authority over you and expects you to obey her. Speaking to you in an authoritative way in the presence of certain people would certainly humble you, wouldn’t it? Then, if the people were curious, that could lead to her revealing to them that she disciplines you, and maybe even to spanking you in front of a willing witness, as others have suggested.

 

 I vividly remember that, at the time, I found Danielle's comment to be both incredibly stimulating and incredibly disturbing. Very much like the first time I discovered the DWC. In fact, I think her comment may be part of what led me start really exploring and accepting how big a part the maternal archetype played in the roots of my DD interest. 

 

In another comment, Danielle noted that grounding can be even more humbling and role-enforcing than spankings, particularly when seen by other family members or other adults we know well:

 

“If children see that their mother has the authority to “ground” their father or to send him to bed early or to take away television privileges or to make him return something he bought without her "permission" to the store, those are clearer demonstrations of a real power imbalance than a spanking would be.

 

[Some see] adult/adult spanking [as] more clearly sexual in nature. Personally, I would argue that those other kinds of punishments are just as sexual as spanking because they are manifestations of a dominant/submissive relationship, but they would be less likely to appear sexual to an outside observer.  I think that non-spanking consequences are even more humiliating for Wayne than spankings because whereas spankings can be construed as nothing more than a sexual act between two adults, the removal of privileges shows clearly that I am not treating him as an adult.” 

 

That’s another thing that seems so powerful to me about grounding. 

It almost inherently involves others knowing, since it usually involves restricting the recipient from going out or spending time with others.   

 

That would be hard enough, but what if it were to be combined with an instruction that the husband must be honest when bowing out of said activities, relaying that the reason he can’t go out is because his wife has said he can’t go? 

 

Or, heaven forbid, an instruction to tell that friend that you are sitting on a well-spanked bottom and have been grounded for a week?

Now, that would be embarrassing!   

 

Interestingly, when I searched for spanking memes and pictures that at least suggested someone having to tell phone a friend to say they couldn't come out to play and were sitting on a freshly spanked bottom, I found three with women but not a single example with a male subject.  Similarly, I have several spanking drawings depicting women telling other women that they just spanked, or are in the process of spanking, their husbands.  I cannot find a single example of a man on the phone telling anyone--male or female--about a spanking or other exercise of disciplinary authority.  So, this clearly seems to be an area that men find more threatening that titillating.

 

While others may say that this is exactly why they aren’t interested in something like that, I would argue that’s exactly why it would be so effective as discipline.  The fact that you might much rather take a spanking may demonstrate why spanking might not be the pinnacle of effective possible punishments for your wfe to employ.

 

 

Anne has never made me tell anyone about a punishment, including grounding.  The closest she has come is when she made me verbally apologize to a work associate I had gone off on about something and had been mistaken about the basic facts.

 

In the past, I’m not sure if I could have handled it if she made me tell someone I was grounded, let alone that I had been spanked and grounded. Though, in truth, from the moment we started DD, I’ve been pretty good about complying with orders from Anne even when I found it very hard to do.  (That apology thing was excruciating because, even though I was wrong in that particular incident, the guy was a jerk and I knew he would take the apology as him being one up on me.)

So, I think I probably would have complied, though I undoubtedly would have found it mortifying. And, I now have one friend--probably the one I am the most likely to get in trouble with--who has so many times said things that indicates his wife wields all the real control in the family, I could see doing it now and possibly getting non-snickering response.

 

Grounding certainly is a powerful form of control.  To this day, I remember incidents in which one of my friends would be grounded by his mom. Although I don't think she believed in spanking, she was extremely rigorous about her groundings. I remember one day several of us came over to his house to pick him up for an outing, thinking that his grounding was over. But, when we got there, she pointed out that his week-long grounding still had 20 minutes to go from the exactday/time she imposed it. So, we had to sit there for 20 minutes as my friend quietly fumed.  I kind of had a thing for his mother before then, and I don’t doubt that incident reinforced that thing, even if at the time I thought only that she was a hot, older woman. 

It also seems so complementary to spanking as a punishment, it's easy for me to view any meme involving a strong maternal vibe and imagine the wife adding, "And, by the way, after I blister your butt, you are grounded for a week."

 

 

 How about you? Is grounding a part of your disciplinary relationship?  If not, would you want it to be?  For the wives, does grounding or imposing other forms of “childish” discipline on your husband have any attraction? Why or why not? If it's because he doesn't want it, should that even matter if the purpose is real punishment?

 

Please feel free to draw from any of the other examples Danielle used or similar forms of “parent like” control or punishment a wife could dole out if she chooses.

 

Have a good week.