The Club - Meeting 488 - Spanking for Carelessness

You learn a lot more from the lows because it makes you pay attention to what you're doing.” – John Elway

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.

 

Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.

 

I hope you all had a good week. I’ve gotten in a couple of fun motorcycle day-trips in the last couple of weeks.  I’m trying to cram in as much fun as I can before we go into a state of suspended animation thanks to the injuries and consequent medical procedures I alluded to a few weeks ago. 

 

 

And, speaking of cramming in fun, Anne and I probably are going to try to squeeze in an RV trip in over the next few days, which means it’s fairly likely I won’t be posting next week.

 

Before I get to a topic for this week, I wanted to do one quick follow-up regarding last week’s topic.  The comments kicked off with a couple of strongly negative opinions regarding the possibility of kids—even our adult kids—finding out about our DD lifestyles.

 

Given how strong the reaction was from a couple of people, it got me curious about what, if anything, they have done to ensure that no one, including the kids, would find out about the lifestyle if, heaven forbid, the worst happened and you shuffled off this mortal coil, leaving some interesting toys and instruments behind. And, it's something that even those who aren't as concerned about others knowing still might want to think through.

 

I’ve always loved this cartoon by KD Pierre, which raises the comedic issue of an elder passing and leaving behind some hints that their life had been maybe a bit more “colorful” than her relatives realized.

 

I’m probably a bit more sensitive to this issue than most, because of some early life experiences with close relatives dying very unexpectedly.  It’s always been in the back of mind that every day really could be your last.

 

In our case, I don’t remember exactly how it came up, but at some point I told the vanilla friend who knows about our DD lifestyle that I kept all the instruments in a footlocker-like box in a closet. Once when we were going on an adventurous trip without the kids, she asked whether I wanted her to try to spirit the box out of the house if anything were to happen to us.  I had listed her as the executor on our wills, and she was the godmother of one of our kids, so it wouldn’t have been unusual for her to have a role in handling our estate and belongings.  Today, I’m not sure what would happen.  The footlocker still exists, but the tools are scattered around in various places, as are some of my hand-written journals discussing DD. 

 

So, the simple answer is that, if something happened to us, our kids would almost certainly quickly discover nearly everything about our DD relationship.  Which is fine with me, but others reacted with such concern, I’m curious if they’ve done anything to ensure ongoing confidentiality, in the event the worst were to happen.

 

In terms of how bad the reaction of adult kids might be, my own intuition is in-line with what several others expressed, namely that they probably would be fine with it or, most likely, they wouldn’t care that much one way or another. 

 

ZM summed it up well in responding to one of Norton’s comments:

 

"Being held accountable for my behavior has had a profound and positive affect on my life and my relationship. It would be great to be able to share our DD with others, but any attempts we made were met with disinterest." - Hahaha. That is one of the main observations my wife and I made when it came to telling others. In our minds, it was such a HUGE deal, but the fact is, most people simply don't think that much about what others do or really care. They might find it mildly interesting, or even perhaps slightly amusing, but unless they too are wired more like some of us, they are probably likely to not really think about it much (if ever) again.

 

I expect that same thing would hold at least somewhat true with grown-up kids. Probably they would think about it more, since they are closer to the situation, but it might be just reflecting on things and trying to see if there were signs of this relationship dynamic that they missed or something like that. In the end, our grown-up kids have plenty to think about in their own lives, and this probably wouldn't get a lot of mind-share.”

 

Al pointed out that even if the kids aren’t aware of DD, they may become aware at the more subtle changes in attitudes and displayed roles:

 

“However, I do know that they are both very aware (especially the older child) that there came a point when I was noticeably more respectful, and showed greater deference, to my wife than I had before - as well as Susan becoming obviously more assertive in her interaction with me, especially when it came to my behavior and attitude.”

 

As I noted in response, one of our adult kids asked my wife about the fact that she seemed to increasingly be in charge and making more of the decisions.  Kids are perceptive and probably know or intuit more than we like to think.

 

In a great cautionary note, however, AE pointed out that it’s not just about what kids might think about DD, but whether they have the discretion to keep it to themselves. 

 

“TE and I have a daughter who is still elementary age. She knows nothing about our DD and I would prefer to keep it that way for a while (probably a long while). She’s seen me playfully slap TE with an oven mitt in the kitchen for being in my way and she still talks about it several years later. I don’t trust her understanding or discretion at this point. That being said, I can’t say there will never be time when she’s grown that I won’t feel differently, we’re just in a stage of life where that’s unknown.”

 

As for this week’s topic, it’s more a series of personal anecdotes that illustrate one direction I hope our DD goes in after we get through this medical-related hiatus.

 

Over the last couple of years, I’ve gotten more intrigued about DD’s application to simple carelessness.  Things that don’t represent big character failings, malicious conduct, disobedience, or bad attitude. Instead, I’m talking about those times when we are sloppy or do things in an absent-minded or half-assed way.

 

 

When we first started DD and, honestly, for probably most of the first 18 or 19 years in the lifestyle, Anne focused her attention what I think we both saw as big behavioral failures. Drinking too much or too often. Temper tantrums. Behaving in a way that she saw as being rude, embarrassing, or boorish in the presence of others.

 

Although our general rule, from the beginning, was that she could spank for any reason, in reality most of the focus has always been on bigger issues or things that involve a failure to obey agreed-upon rules. 

Conversely, there hasn’t been much focus on simple carelessness, even though careless acts and omissions have probably cost as much time and money, and placed my health and safety at as much risk, as some of the “big ticket” stuff she has consistently addressed.

 

Most of the times, I'm the one who pays the price in time, anxiety, and aggravation, but that doesn't mean that acts of carelessness couldn't extend to things that do affect Anne, if they generally go unaddressed.

For some reason, it’s shown up a lot in my hobbies and recreational activities.  The first time I recall really wanting a significant spanking for an act of carelessness was on a group motorcycle trip a couple of years ago. The trip included some tough terrain.  Unfortunately, one of my tires was significantly worn, but I didn’t notice it until it was too late to get it replaced.  I decided to risk it and, while no great disaster ensued, it did cause some significant problems and made certain parts of the trip much more dicey than they should have been. I also forgot to bring some necessary equipment, despite having an exhaustive checklist to work from.

 

This year, when I went on a similar trip, I did a better job with ensuring everything was maintained and that I had the right equipment, yet there were still some problems that occurred as a result of not maximizing some things I knew I should, in face, maximize.  There was also one fairly significant incident in which, though I didn’t initiate the carelessness, I went along with a traveling companion’s insistence on something that I knew in my gut was going to cause us a significant problem, and it did.

 

On a more minor scale, last year I failed to winterize our van before the first significant freeze, and I ended up spending the better part of two days chasing down and repairing water leaks.

 

And, then, just a week ago, I did something on my motorcycle that was just plain stupid and could have caused a very significant and expensive amount of damage.  In the end, it turned out okay, but it could have been a very costly lesson to simply pay more attention.This drawing shows the context for the punishment that should have happened in a just world.

While it was a genuine mistake, it was a dumb, easily preventable mistake.

 

I realize I have an out-sized need for personal accountability and that sometimes we need to treat a mistake as a mistake.

 

Yet, I also believe that lack of accountability on even genuine mistakes has

ripple effects. 

 

I do think that as I’ve gotten further into early retirement, some of the “big ticket” bad behavior has declined.  However, avoiding the avoidable costs and frustrations of daily life is worth focusing on, given that simple carelessness sometimes does result in substantial costs in money and time. 

 

And, when I'm undisciplined and sloppy in small, everyday areas, that can't help but spill over into bigger things.

 

It's kind of like the "broken windows" approach to policing, in which crime prevention focuses on things like petty vandalism and graffiti, because those petty crimes degrade the neighborhood and give people less of a sense that the rules matter.

 

In the past, I could excuse some simply fuck-ups on the basis that I was crushingly busy and couldn’t always stay on top of everything. Truth be told, however, that level of busyness was a reason to get more organized and systematic, not a good excuse for being less so. 

 

We’ve talked here before about the value in being disciplined for “small” things, but I don’t see some of my instances of carelessness as all that small.  Some could have become real safety issues and others could have cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars to repair.  That I have avoided those consequences most of the time has been more about luck than skill. 

 

I recognize that my tendency to wing it has cost me and others time and, in some cases, caused a fair amount of stress and worry. And, in a couple of the instances described above, I have gotten very mad at myself.

 

That’s why I think I’m so attracted to this captioned picture and have posted it a few times.  To me it exemplifies the idea of getting spanked sometimes for results, regardless of the intent that led to them.

 

It's an attitude that I think was pretty common among parents when I was growing up and a kid failed to take care of an expensive toy or destroyed something through carelessness, inattention, or rambunctiousness.

 

It’s the attitude I hope Anne will take about this carelessness stuff going forward. 

 

I feel like the focus needs to be on both the act or omission and on the result. Or, perhaps even more so, on the potential result. It may be that relatively minor act of inattention or carelessness should earn a very bad spanking if a seriously negative result was avoided by sheer luck. And, like with failing to winterize our RV on time, some fairly minor consequences are so avoidable that they too should earn at substantial reminder to pay freaking attention!

 

 

How do our disciplined husbands and Disciplinary Wives feel about this?  Does she spank for simple carelessness?  Should she?  Give us some examples of careless than has been or should be punishable.

 

Have a great week.