Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couples Club. Our weekly meeting of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline and/or Female Led (FLR) relationships.
Once again, before we get started, I would like to extend a specific invitation to our female readers to move from “lurker” to “commenter” status. We miss having you around.
I hope you all had a good week. I’m still confronting the reality of the extent to which our summer and fall will, once some pre-approvals are wrapped up (gotta love managed care), come to a screeching halt. But, I’m also trying to keep it in perspective.
Thanks to all of you who participated in last week’s topic. I feel like there was a robust discussion around age and its influence on how we approach domestic discipline. But, did we really do justice to Norton’s suggested topic, which was:
Another topic that we could explore is how to get things back on track after taking a break from spanking. We are dealing with that now, and in some ways, it feels like we are starting over.
If folks have more to contribute on that one, I would be interested in hearing it. Some did say they had not experienced a substantial break from DD but, for those who have, what did you do to get back on track? Were there specific actions you took? Did you, as the recipient, need to ask for a spanking? Or, did you, as the wife, finally get fed up with unaddressed bad behavior? Let’s please continue that discussion this week.
Relatedly, a few weeks ago, Antonio suggested this topic:
"Another topic we have only touched on briefly is maintenance discipline. We are finishing a nine day shakedown cruise in our new RV. For a number of reasons this had the potential to be quite stressful for me. During this entire trip, every morning Domino has made me take a short but intense maintenance spanking while reminding me to be aware of my attitude through the coming day, it has worked wonders for keeping my stress level low and helping us both enjoy our trip. Wondering if others have used or experienced this technique to head off trouble? I am ready to be home and have the maintenance sessions end though."
I actually don’t agree that we’ve touched on maintenance spankings only briefly, as we’ve devoted several full topics to it over the years, most recently about a year and a half ago. But, while that isn’t all that long ago, I’m fine with addressing it again.
I do see the topic as
somewhat related to Norton’s “getting back on track” topic, which is why I’m suggesting
we cover both here this week. The
linkage between the two was illustrated by one of Al’s comments, referring back
to one of J’s comments:
“>enables habits to be maintained<.
We came across this bit of advice in the old DWC forum, and made weekly maintenance spankings a part of our DWC lifestyle - for the purpose of maintaining the "spanking habit" and "disciplinary mentality" in our marriage.
In following forums such as this for decades, I have observed that it is not uncommon for the spanking habit to simply fade away due to the business and pressure of career and family life - unless there is a conscious effort to maintain it.”
I replied as follows:
I’ve always resisted the idea of maintenance spankings, and Anne has never been interested in them either. But, now that we seem to be in another lull, I wonder whether I do need to seriously reevaluate. I do think that if we could get more diligent about it, the weekly check-ins we were doing for a while would be a better vehicle for us, because they would keep the dynamic going but spankings would still be tied to misbehavior or lack of progress on goals, chores, etc.
My primary issue with maintenance spankings was basically the same as my concern about preventive spankings, i.e. was it really discipline if it didn’t involve punishing a particular action or failure. I always wondered whether it was just an excuse for someone with a spanking fetish to get spanked more often.
I also used to see “maintenance” spankings as distinct from “preventative” spankings, but I now think the two can blur into each other. For example, I probably would have categorized Mario’s daily spankings while on the RV trip as more “preventative” than maintenance. But, I now see some very obvious overlaps between the two. To extent there is a clear distinction between the two, maybe it is the extent to which the spanking is tied to a discreet event, i.e. getting spanked before a party is preventative?
The extent to which these all blend together was illustrated on one of the previous times we’ve addressed this topic. One of our past commenters “Liz” had this to say about what some here call maintenance, though she preferred another term:
“We do weekly spankings whether or not there have been any transgressions, but we don't call them maintenance. We consider them “motivational”: Art gets paddled every Monday morning to remind him to keep his arrogance to a minimum. I do believe in DD that is proactive in addition to reactive. Maybe that's what some couples mean by maintenance, but I don't care for the term. It sounds weird to me. I'm not his maintenance department. But yes, I like restricting DD to one day a week so it is not a dominating thing in our lives.”
Her husband Art offered this:
“I also have come to believe in preventive DD. Liz paddles me every Monday morning as a reminder to curb my arrogance. She spanks hard enough that sitting is uncomfortable for 2-3 days and I can even feel it as I walk. That discomfort serves as a constant reminder to be humble and keep my mouth shut when I want to make sarcastic comments. As the discomfort fades, so does my humility. All of my recent incidents of arrogance have come toward the end of the week.”
Liz and Art’s comments show a blending of the concepts of prevention, maintenance, and punishment. Liz’s references to “proactive” and “reactive” were echoed by Danielle, who liked the term “management”:
“If spanking is viewed purely as punishment, preventative spanking doesn’t make sense. But I view it as “behavior management,” rather than just punishment. I have used it in a specific context with my husband in the past. The men in my husband’s extended family have epic political arguments during family dinners. I have always found that annoying, especially when my husband gets involved, which he often does...or rather used to. Therefore, I have, on a couple of occasions, spanked him before going to a family dinner to heighten his consciousness of the behavior I expect of him. I also couple the preventative spanking with the implied threat that if I have to intervene in an argument during dinner, I just might "forget myself" and remind him of the consequences of misbehavior at the dinner table. I have found that it works. That’s the important thing to me.”
Liz also had an issue with frequency and the need to repeatedly discipline deeply rooted, ongoing habits. Her husband’s issue was arrogance, which he apparently displayed more or less daily when she first took up the paddle after their marriage hit a very rocky place thanks to his behavior. She did not want DD to dominate their lives and was unwilling to spank only for particular contemporaneous acts of arrogance, as that would entail spanking him nearly every day. For her, spanking him once a week was both a kind of “catch up” covering all the issues during the week (including arrogance at work, which she wouldn’t necessarily learn about) and also a reminder for the following week.
Although I’ve struggled with whether pre-scheduled spankings are really disciplinary, I probably could get on board with them as a “catch up.” The reality is, it’s seldom a week goes by that there hasn’t been some transgression going unaddressed even though I wondered whether she would spank me for it.
For me, I still want there to be some connection between the particular spanking and the particular behavior. But, I saw this meme recently that I thought laid out a somewhat intriguing approach.
I liked it because, while the
wife was imposing a pre-scheduled spanking routine, the timing and severity would
adjust depending on the effect of the maintenance spankings on his behavior. In the past, I've toyed with the idea of having some kind of a system in place where there would be a presumption of being spanked weekly but having the ability to earn my way out of it with good behavior.
Of course, maintenance might have a “role affirmation” function that is entirely separate from disciplinary or preventative rationales. Power exchange relationships like DD and FLR may require undoing a lot of deeply entrenched power dynamics and hierarchies. If a woman was raised in a patriarchal environment, or if her marriage was itself an example of such an environment in the past she may need to periodically remind herself of her authority.
Liz summed up all these various roles for maintenance and preventative spankings nicely in this single quote:
“I'm not sure if there has been a Monday morning when there was NOTHING to punish Art for. So we start with that. Then we move on to the upcoming week, though there really is no noticeable transition. On many Mondays nowadays there are more swats about the upcoming week than there were for the past week. To me that is a sign that our DD is working because he had a good week last week. But he admits that he needs a paddling to remind him to keep it up. If he completely stopped being arrogant, maybe the reminders would stop. But that's all speculative since his arrogance is unlikely to go away completely. I think the routine we have established of paddling him every Monday has been good for Art. He knows what to expect. And it is good for me too, to remind myself of the authority I now hold in our marriage. I don't have to and won't accept his arrogance anymore. Maybe we both need weekly reminders of that!”
How about you? Do you practice preventative and/or maintenance spankings? What role do they serve? Is their purpose to prevent bad behavior with a periodic reminder of what will happen, or is the purpose totally separate from deterring bad behavior? Is there a pre-set schedule, like weekly on a particular day?
B+(3).jpg)
How about severity? Is a maintenance spanking less severe than a punishment spanking? Is the duration shorter? Or, are the timing, severity or duration flexible and variable based on his recent behavior?
I hope you have a good week.
We have been practicing maintenance spankings every Monday morning for about 4 years. For us, they work extremely well, and about a year ago, she decided we would also have a check in every Thursday morning as well, which almost always includes a spanking. She used to punish for any transgressions shortly after they happened, but now, I am punished during the next maintenance spanking. About 3 weeks ago, she increased the intensity of the spankings, and I often have a sore bottom. Because we schedule them so frequently, it will never be very long until my next spanking. She has also begun to give me corner time more often, either before the spanking or after it with a very red bottom. I am constantly aware of my position and of her authority.
ReplyDelete"She used to punish for any transgressions shortly after they happened, but now, I am punished during the next maintenance spanking."
DeleteThat trade-off makes a lot of sense to me.
Another important aspect of our maintenance spankings is the check in before. I keep a journal of thoughts and ideas concerning our DD, and anything that is on my mind will be shared with her then. She will also have an opportunity to inform me of how she is feeling before she begins the spanking.
DeleteWe have been using maintenance spankings for several years now. We instituted the program after I became so well trained that discipline/punishment spankings tapered off to near non-existence. Maintenance spankings were intended to accomplish 3 goals: 1. To reinforce my submissive role and keep me mindful of who is in charge of the relationship. 2. To serve as a reminder of what lies in store for me for rule breaking or misbehavior. 3. To act as a 'catch all' for any minor infractions which may not have warranted a discipline spanking at the time. Maintenance spankings are much longer in duration, most always use more than one implement and leave me sore for a few days. I am always nude for spankings, positions and implements vary... her choice. Our lives were so busy at the time, we could not specify one particular day for the maintenance, not did we want daily spankings or to allow too much time to slip by between spankings. We developed plan to schedule maintenance on a random basis by tossing a single die. After each spanking, I would toss the die, we then would add '1' to the number rolled and that became the number of days until the next maintenance session is due. This assures spankings will never be on consecutive days or ever more than 7 days apart. If life makes it impossible to use that day, we simply move it to the next day. The maintenance schedule does not alter a punishment spanking that is earned. Punishments are given as soon as possible after the offense. If it happens to be on maintenance day, I get spanked twice that day. She never mixes punishment with maintenance.... they are separate spankings. This may not work for everyone, but the concept of maintenance and the random scheduling has worked well for us.
ReplyDelete"We developed plan to schedule maintenance on a random basis by tossing a single die."
DeleteFor some reason, I've always been attracted to scenarios that inject a bit of chance into the disciplinary process via things like dice and cards.
Once a fortnight, 10 minutes with Mrs GL's hand, always at a late bedtime, level enough to have a throbbing bottom as I fall asleep after. Works because it's what we do.
ReplyDeleteWhile we don't do maintenance, I suspect that if we did, a two-week schedule would work better for us than weekly.
DeleteWe don’t use maintenance spankings. My wife is up in the air on the idea of them. Like your example above about Art. To me, how can you continue to be arrogant when you know a severe thrashing is coming your way week after week. I’ll revert to my example a few weeks ago. I was thrashed severely for over indulging with friends. It was probably the longest and most severe spanking I have received from my wife. She was no nonsense, scolded and spanked like I was an unruly teenager. The following week, we attended a stag and my friend had to stay over again. I was reminded to toe the line and behaved the entire time at the stag. I had fun without going over board. I thought about how difficult it was to sit for a day after. I apparently learned my lesson. DD worked for me, so no offense to Art’s example, but are you really learning if you have to be paddled for the same thing week after week? Do I feel my wife should thrash me more than she does? Yes, I do get away with some things that I should not. My wife should be a bit stricter, but she recently had a minor routine done. She commended my help with all of the household chores that she couldn’t complete while on the DL and thanked me profusely for doing laundry, cooking, ect.
ReplyDeleteT
"To me, how can you continue to be arrogant when you know a severe thrashing is coming your way week after week."
DeleteTo me, arrogance is as much (or more) of a personality trait than a more simple behavioral failing. I think personality traits are simply harder to address with DD, as they tend to be very deeply rooted and have existed more or less unchallenged for so long.
I never thought of it that way, but your are probably correct in that it has to be a personality trait. I guess a personality trait would be me getting animated or loud at times. Part of it is my culture. My wife’s ex use to scream and yell. When I start to raise my voice or get fired up. She will say calm down or “do you need an attitude adjustment”. I tend to pipe
DeleteDown.
T
As Dan quoted me from the previous post: "We came across this bit of advice in the old DWC forum, and made weekly maintenance spankings a part of our DWC lifestyle - for the purpose of maintaining the "spanking habit" and "disciplinary mentality" in our marriage."
ReplyDeleteDan then makes the point: "My primary issue with maintenance spankings was basically the same as my concern about preventive spankings, i.e. was it really discipline if it didn’t involve punishing a particular action or failure. I always wondered whether it was just an excuse for someone with a spanking fetish to get spanked more often."
For us - although maintenance spankings don't address specific issues, they definitely serve (as one of the meme's in this week's blog noted) as a weekly reminder of "who's the boss in the marriage" (at least in disciplinary matters, whether one has a true FLR or not) and thus serve a true disciplinary purpose - as well as maintaining the "spanking habit' in the marriage (which experience has shown to be a legitimate concern in DWC marriages). In fairness, a guaranteed weekly spanking does indulge my psycho-sexual need to be regularly spanked (despite the genuine pain), as well as my wife's genuine love of spanking for the joy of spanking (as Dan mentioned about Ann at one point, Susan becomes antsy if she goes a couple of weeks without spanking me). However, this does not negate the disciplinary value of maintaining the aura of maternal discipline in the home - or the threat of a real punishment spanking.
In regard to the concern that maintenance spankings might diminish the importance or effectiveness of a disciplinary or punishment spanking for a specific infraction or behavior, this has not proven true in our home. While maintenance spankings are "real spankings" - always a hundred solid swats or more that leave a well reddened bottom that will be sore for the couple of days - they are also more intimate. They are almost always otk and often leave to intimacy afterwards (albeit with her pleasure fist and foremost in mind, and occasionally with some femdom elements present). Punishment spankings, on the other hand, are significantly more severe - usually given with me kneeling on top of the bed with my rear well presented for discipline - with substantially harder swats and usually closer to 200 swats or more. Punishment spankings are truly something to fear and to be avoided if at all possible.
Although there is certainly some gray in the distinction, we do differentiate between preventative spankings and maintenance spankings. Preventative spankings are for "specific" events or occasions. For example, I always receive a sound paddling just before we leave on a trip - to help ensure my good behavior. I also often receive preventative spankings as we are getting dressed for a dinner or event with family or friends - again, to help ensure my good behavior.
Obviously, there is no one right way to conduct a disciplinary marriage - and couples will hopefully find what works best for them. --al
"However, this does not negate the disciplinary value of maintaining the aura of maternal discipline in the home - or the threat of a real punishment spanking."
DeleteI haven't articulated it in this way to myself before, but I do think that part of my previous qualms about maintenance spankings has been that they feel (to me) like a big departure from the maternal model.
I too do think there is a distinction between preventative and maintenance. Anne hasn't used preventative very often (maybe two or three times total), but if I were to pick one change that I think might have a very big impact on my behavior, more preventative spankings probably would be it. You mentioned getting spanked before travel. I tend to get very cranky on trips, so that would be a candidate. There also are a couple of friends who, when we hang out together, it is very likely it will end up with too much alcohol consumed. It's always been the case with me that after a couple of drinks, I truly never even think about post-drinking consequences, whether hangovers or spankings. Perhaps a few hard swats before each get together with that person might, and the resulting sore bottom while having that beer, might be a game changer.
I think that when it comes to maintaining a regular spanking habit, consistency is extremely important. Some days, my wife has no wrongs to repay me for: if that were the case, then something would be going wrong!
DeleteSometimes, she is motivated only by the fact that spanking me gives her pleasure (I don't know if it is in a similar way to the woman named Ann): I would be happy to take spanking from her even if it were only for that reason!
If she doesn't have the desire one day, then we run on the basis that we should do it out of habit. Habits can be very hard to build and very easy to break if you don't maintain them. Having built it up, I wouldn't miss the nightly warm feeling of being on top with my backside glowing following a spanking!
J.
A couple of additional thoughts:
ReplyDeleteIt does seem to me that a "weekly self-report" (such as Dan has talked about) could also serve a function similar to the weekly maintenance spanking - with the advantage of tying the resulting spanking to a specific misbehavior or infraction. The decision would then be - that if there is no misbehavior to report (and the wife has none in mind either) - would a spanking still take place. Perhaps the wife might decide that an attitude adjustment is still needed. Perhaps a less severe "reminder" spanking might still occur. Obviously the couple would have to decide on what system would work best for them.
Additionally, in addition to maintenance or preventative spankings - and punishment/discipline spankings - "attitude adjustment" spankings are often mentioned in discussions and articles on spanking. These are often described as less severe than punishment spankings but still "real spankings" that would differ from maintenance spankings in that they are applied as needed, and not on a schedule. It is not unusual for me to receive an attitude adjustment spanking in between the weekly maintenance spanking.
--al
I usually think of "attitude adjustment" spankings as kind of a mix of a punishment spanking and a "role affirmation" spanking, i.e. he's getting punished for his own attitude and she's also spanking to affirm that she's the boss and that he can't get away with directing a bad attitude toward her.
DeleteWe do use maintenance spankings in our practice, but I like Liz’s reference to them as behavior management - not only as punishment but to set expectations and to remind us both of the roles we hold in our relationship. We use Sundays as a reset/prep day for the whole family - we tackle meal prep, schedule reviews, whatever’s needed for our daughter - in order to have a successful and less stressful week. We had found that a dedicated weekly check-in was needed to keep us on the same page on progress towards goals, etc., so when we began DD we adopted that same principle. Bringing us together and into a shared mindset has felt like a natural extension of this preparation.
ReplyDeleteFor the maintenance spankings, it’s not always that they are much different in length or intensity, but the language I use before and during reflects the goal. If we’ve been connecting well during the previous week it might be a little less, but if it’s felt like we’ve been out of step it might be a little more. I find it to be a very helpful reminder for both of us. AE
Thanks, AE. "We had found that a dedicated weekly check-in was needed to keep us on the same page on progress towards goals, etc., so when we began DD we adopted that same principle." We started doing something like that a few months ago, then we got distracted with some travel and family commitments, and we've failed to return to those meetings. I do think they had a lot of potential and we need to start them up again until they become a habit.
DeleteInterestingly enough, I would not have asked to institute maintenance spankings.
DeleteAE came up with that, and at the end of the day she is in charge of when, where and how I get my comeuppance.
As per our agreement, if she thinks I need them to set the tone for the week, then over her lap I go. So here I am, soon to be getting the wooden spoon because it is Sunday, on top of a slightly bruised rear end from yesterday’s missteps. Consistent and strict, she reminds me.
Honestly could not ask for better.
TE
Thanks, TE. "Consistent and strict, she reminds me." That seems like a very simple and effective formula for DD success.
DeleteWe have vacillated on maintenance spanking, never able to stay with a schedule, but several times trying to implement them together with regular “behavior reviews.”
ReplyDeleteShe does, however, use preventive spanking, much like -Al has described. Preventive spanking, however is the single most effective technique she uses, and for a long while, has been nearly 100 percent effective in managing my behavior on road trips or social gatherings. I have pondered a few times at large parties how many other men or women might be sporting a warm bottom. I doubt I am always the only one.
One last thought about maintenance spanking and scheduled checkups: One thing we have tried that has promise is a behavior review session free of any threat of immediate punishment. This goes back to my former GF, who liked to "sit down and talk “about things.” removing the threat of imminent punishment promotes an atmosphere of openness and candor .
Alan
"One thing we have tried that has promise is a behavior review session free of any threat of immediate punishment." I could be misremembering this, but I think ZM described his weekly check-ins as having that same element, i.e. the check-ins did not immediately result in a spanking. I go back and forth on how closely spankings and check-ins should be linked and what the timing should be. I can see how removing the threat of immediate punishment might make the meetings more constructive. On the other hand, I feel like I might take them more seriously if the scenario was something more like a presumption that I would be spanked, and spanked soon after the meeting, unless I had "earned my way out" of a spanking with very good behavior. It might even take some pressure off Anne in deciding when and when not to spank.
DeletePart of me really hates the idea of suggesting preventative spankings to Anne, but a few recent incidents make me feel like it may be necessary for me to suck it up and do so. And, to be clear, it's not like we've rejected the idea of them in the past. She did them a few times, but they didn't get much traction.
When we have done them with imminent punishment on the agenda, it is more like a trial in which I am presumed guilty, and the only question is how severe the punishment will be. But when punishment is only a future possibility ( no matter how likely in reality it is), then there seems to be more of a spirit of collaboration: let us see what is going on here and make punishment, if it happens, a positive thing that improves our communication and allows her to better manage my behavior in future.
DeleteAlan
Alan, I can see how it would work that way.
DeleteAlan wrote: >" I have pondered a few times at large parties how many other men or women might be sporting a warm bottom. I doubt I am always the only one."<
DeleteAlthough F/M DD relationships/marriages are obviously fairly niche in society as a whole, I also cannot help on occasion but to wonder when I am in a large crowd, just how many other spanked husbands might be in the crowd with me. --al
I seldom find myself speculating about the condition of the bottoms at a party, perhaps because I think it would have to be a very large room for the odds to favor there being any others. But, what I do find myself speculating about are the profiles of the people who follow the articles I was writing on Medium. A large majority of the female followers are fellow Medium writers, in the Erotica space. So, it's not clear that they are even attracted to DD specifically, as opposed to just being interested in it as another form of kink. But, every once in a while a woman with a totally vanilla profile will follow me. One of the first followers I got on there was a very vanilla looking woman who was an M.D. I find myself being extremely curious about the backstories and wondering whether they are in the lifestyle or just curious. I wonder about whether any of them have been inspired to take a paddle to their husbands. In some ways, I don't really want to know the answers. It's more fun to speculate.
DeleteDan proclaimed: “I think it would have to be a very large room for the odds to favor there being any others.”
DeleteAl gets the gold star on this one. In fact, using the same probability distribution used in the famous “same birthday” paradox, a room of 75 or so people would virtually guarantee that at least one other person had an interest in spanking as a fetish.
This interest could be simply erotic, F/M oriented, or DD-oriented. Many permutations of spanking interest are possible. I am using some generally available data here on adult fetishes, but if the results are counter-intuitive look into the birthday paradox and you might be surprised.
Aside from the math, It seems highly plausible that, just as passing ships in the dark, we encounter fellow “enthusiasts” more frequently than we suppose, even without 75 in the room.
Alan
Dan: From past experience, it is almost CERTAIN the Google's AI ("Artificial Imbecility") is going to SPAM-can my next comment.
DeleteCould to please "dig it out," so other may see it?
It is incorrect to use the "birthday" probability distribution because we are discussing ONE (1) person with a PARTICULAR fetish matching at least ONE other person with an identical fetish.
DeleteThe Birthday probability distribution is derived from the rather long "power series" wherein at least one person with one of 365 different fetishes happens to match another person with the identical fetish.
These are very different questions, as the Birthday problem allows each person in the room an attempt to match their particular fetish (birthday) with one other person in the room, repeated seventy-four (75-1) times for seventy five people matching (75-nth-person) times.
For the spanking fetish question, assume the probability any single person has a 1/365 chance of having that fetish, and we have one person we KNOW has the fetish. (1/365 is obviously way too low, as there are many well designed surveys of "spanking interest" show much higher interest levels-- see below.)
Then, the probability that AT LEAST one OTHER person (75-1) in the room has a spanking fetish is the same as one (1) minus the probability that NO other person in the room has that fetish.
Mathematically, that would be:
P(spanko) = 1 - ([1- (1/365)]^[75-1]) = 0.184
Alternatively, the probability that NO other person in room has a spanking fetish is:
P(nospanko) = 1 - P(spanko) = 0.816
Using a more realistic number, of say 10% of people have some type of "medium to strong spanking interest" of some type (as noted by Alan), then:
P(spanko) = 1 - ([1- (0.10)]^[75-1]) = 0.9996
And:
P(nospanko) = 1 - P(spanko) = 0.0004
(These calculations, base upon "more realistic" probabilities of "interest", do strongly agree and support Alan's position, that in any large group you are almost CERTAIN to have a "fellow spanko," and also likely to have "quite a few fellow spankos!" [calculation of "75-element power series" too hard to demonstrate "as text" in this forum].)
Of further note, about 1.9 years ago, Alan and myself had a discussion about how many couples are actually engaged in DW- DD. We seemed to reach a "rough qualitative agreement" that the number was very unlikely to be more than 0.5 percent, (1/200 couples), but hard to imagine it being less than 0.1 percent (1/1000 couples). The median of those values is roughly 0.3 percent, or "fractionally" 1/333, which is very close to the number of "[birth]days in a year." Thus, the first calculated probability of 0.184 is a reasonable estimate that one of the other guests at the party is a member of a DW-DD couple.
Donn wrote:” … we are discussing ONE (1) person with a PARTICULAR fetish matching at least ONE other person with an identical fetish.”
DeleteYour math is wrong because the premise is wrong. The issue is matching any one person with any one other having a spanking fetish.
You have asked the wrong question and proceeded to answer it. I will offer the math explaining it further later this week or as soon as I have a chance. I am sure everyone will be waiting with bated breath. Meanwhile, feel free to move about the room
Alan
Alan: I look forward to learning more about your own "premises," "formulation of problem" and subsequent analysis.
DeleteI hope we can jointly examine each of these three elements, separately.
(I do believe my "formulation" in second paragraph, above, is correct, but admit that sometimes long power series of "conditional probabilities" product unexpected [VERY non-intuitive] results .)
TYPE CORRECTION: ". . . my formulation in second part of first paragraph . . ."
DeleteI think the "calculated probability" can't possibly qualify as a "reasonable estimate" because the probabilities and estimates aren't based on any observed data but, instead, admittedly on personal imagination.
DeleteDonn says that he and Alan find it "hard to imagine it being less than 0.1 percent (1/1000 couples). The median of those values is roughly 0.3 percent, or "fractionally" 1/333, which is very close to the number of "[birth]days in a year." Thus, the first calculated probability of 0.184 is a reasonable estimate that one of the other guests at the party is a member of a DW-DD couple."
How do you get from a number derived not from any empirical data but simply because it is "hard to imagine" it might be otherwise to a "reasonable estimate" of anything?
Had you tied the .1% estimate to couples interested in spanking generally, I might agree with you, though it would still just be three guys spit-balling it. When you tie it to F/m DD, however, I personally have no problem at all estimating that the actual prevalence is less than 1/1000 couples. We live in a suburb with around 4,000 households, and I have no problem whatsoever envisioning that we are the one and only couple in the town who are in a F/m DD relationship. But, of course, that too is pure speculation, and your imagination may encompass all sorts of hidden kinky couples activity that my imagination does not. I have no idea which our our imaginative leanings might prove closer to the mark, but I know that all of them are simply a wild-ass guess.
Dan
DeleteNot a good week for me to get far into the weeds on this but I can't associate myself with the estimate Donn imputed to me ( 0.1 %), apparently his estimate of female led DD. there are some empirical data including The National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior (NSSHB) and "Springer Link" among others. Discussion sexual fetishes is not limited to deductive approaches. Usable data does exist. Finall ( for now), nowhere was I estimating/predicting the prevalence of F/M relationships which is where Donn went astray. Instead I was using the birthday pardx
( continued)
Deleteparadox to estimate the chances someone in the hypothetical room would also have a spanking fetish.
Alan
Wow, that was quite the dissection above. Donn your quite the Statistician. I will say that as far as fetishes go, our circle of friends and family are small. One night after a few beverages, one of my best friends cousins admitted she loved to be spanked. Of course my ears perked up. Someone made a comment on how she was naughty, and she replied that’s why my ex had to spank me. Everyone got a chuckle, but our groups of friends and family have no more than 50 people.
DeleteI must admit everyone I see her now, I wonder how hard a spanking she took lol. She is by the way a sweet heat and a blast to hang out with. We have all had conversations surrounding upbringing, and she was spanked just like we were.
T
Alan: I'm sorry if I recalled your position (from discussions two years past) on prevalence of DW-DD couples inaccurately.
DeleteT., the thing that jumps out at me about that conversation was that a woman in the group admitted to getting spanked, but none of the men did. I don't disagree that spanking probably has become more prevalent over the last few years and that *women* are probably a lot more open about it. But, I think it's a different story where F/m is concerned.
DeleteAnd, even if people are more open about spanking, I don't think that's at all true for real DD/DWC-style spankings. 50 Shades probably freed people to talk more about kink in general, and spanking/very light BDSM in particular. But, I don't think that whole literary phenomenon liberated disciplinary spankings in any way. Quite the opposite. When you get down to it, the underlying message of that book/movie series is that very light spanking and pretend power exchange is fun and liberating, but real power exchange is dark and threatening, and anyone who is into it probably got there as a result of childhood drama. The whole relationship is about the unexperienced vanilla girlfriend "saving" her tortured Dominant boyfriend by making him less kinky and less dominant.
Yeah Dan,
DeleteI was thrown for a loop because it didn’t seem based on the conversation like a “50 shades of grey” response. I do agree with your statement on how that changed bdsm and made it more “acceptable” to the main stream. She was clearly spanked hard, but as for discipline who knows. I didn’t want to seem like I was pushing. She did say to my wife one night, I wish I could find someone like T, he’s respectful, well mannered, ect. How did u land him? My wife said by pure luck lol. Little does she know!!
T
If you are at a party with the 20-40 age range who use Tinder or Feeld a lot, there's a good chance a woman is there who has taken a spanking she can still feel. (There is a good chance she was choked or spat on during sex, too. It's far from DD.)
DeleteThere are probably multiple people at any general gathering who have given or received a few fun slaps on the butt that week, but wouldn't think of themselves as spankos.
Pasted below are fragments of a worksheet working out the probability of at least one other person in the room of 75 sharing an interest in adult spanking/BDSM play. There is no data quality available breaking out the various subsets of interest such as M/M, F/M F/F M/F, and so on > By general consensus M/F is thought to be the most common, but that remains an informed conjecture. The prevalence of erotic vs discipline oriented spanking interest also has not been carefully studied.
Delete____________________________________
To calculate the probability of at least two people sharing an interest in adult spanking in a room of 75 people, I use a similar approach to the birthday problem.
I assume, based on available data, that approximately 20% to 30% of the adult population may have an interest in adult spanking, which includes female-led DD but does not exclude other adult spanking. For this calculation, I will use a 25% probability.
Given that at least one person in the room is likely to have an interest in adult spanking, the probability that at least two people share this interest is very high due to the significant baseline probability of 25%. This is analogous to the birthday problem, where a relatively small number of interest categories compared to the number of people results in a high probability of shared interest.
This explanation captures the key steps in the analysis, applying the birthday problem logic to estimate the probability of shared interest in a particular fetish within a group.
Calculation
1. Probability that a person does not have an interest in adult spanking:
P(no adult spanking)=1−0.25=0.75P(\text{no adult spanking}) = 1 adult spanking 0.25 = 0.75P(no adult spanking)=1−0.25=0.75
2. Probability that none of the 75 people have an interest in adult spanking:
P(none have adult spanking)=0.7575P(\text{none have adult spanking}) = 0.75^{75}P(none have adult spanking)=0.7575
3. Probability that at least one person has an interest in adult spanking:
P(at least one has adult spanking)=1−P(none have adult spanking)P(\text{at least one has adult spanking}) = 1 adult spanking P(\text{none have adult spanking})P(at least one has adult spanking)=1−P(none have adult spanking)
4. Probability that at least two people share an interest in adult spanking:
Instead of calculating all unique interests directly, I focus on the likelihood that at least one person has the interest and then use this to estimate the chance of shared interest.
Numerical Calculation
• Probability that none of the 75 people have adult spanking:
P(none have adult spanking)=0.7575≈0.000178P(\text{none have adult spanking}) = 0.75^{75} \approx 0.000178P(none have adult spanking)=0.7575≈0.000178
• Probability that at least one person has adult spanking:
P(at least one has adult spanking)=1−0.000178≈0.9998P(\text{at least one has adult spanking}) = 1 adult spanking 0.000178 \approx 0.9998P(at least one has adult spanking)=1−0.000178≈0.9998
Alan
Thank you Alan.
DeleteI'll take a closer, detailed look at this when I have a little more time.
Just to be clear, the question under consideration is:
"If I am a spanko at a party of 75 people, and the probability of any one person being a spanko is (1/365; birthday paradox with 365 days), WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY THAT THERE IS AT LEAST ONE OTHER SPANKO AMONG THE OTHER 74 (75-SPANKO) PEOPLE.
(If you invoke the "birthday paradox" for calculations, AND DO NOT OTHERWISE SPECIFY A PROBABILITY A PERSON IS A SPANKO, THEN YOU CAN ONLY MEAN THE PROBABILITY FOR EACH PERSON IS IDENTICAL TO THAT OF THE BIRTHDAY PARADOX: 1/365. Or, did I miss you (originally on August 6, 2024 at 12:32 PM) changing that 1/365 probability to something else?)
Let me run the numbers with your NEW, UPDATED probability, and see what I get. Who knows: We might agree, completely, or close enough for practical purposes.
But I did otherwise specify a probability based on what is considered valid empirical data - one must operationalize" spanko" to the estimated proportion of the population expressing interest/participation in BDSM/spanking. That is as low as 20 percent and as high as 30 percent.
DeleteTotally agree! You did, finally, decide to expressly assign a reasonable operational probability based upon numerous empirical population surveys.
DeleteMost of the empirical surveys are seriously lacking in their own "fine grain" classification of "spanking interests." In simplest form, they ask if a person has "ever fantasized," or "ever spanked / been spanked ("spanked")," moving onto "spanked in past year," or "regularly spanks /get spanks (whatever "regular" might mean). (With each subsequent criteria producing smaller and smaller percentage of population.)
I personally think that to be classified as a "spanko," requires (in my own mind), that the person (at least) somewhat regularly and repeatedly engages in spanking (from either end of paddle).
I'm comfortable with using 10% of population being "spankos," as I "feel" it is likely an underestimate, but, as used in my own calculations, clearly established the point that both Alan and myself were making: In any reasonable sized group of people, there is a very, VERY high probability of AT LEAST "two spankos" being present.
(It is an interesting exercise to work backwards. Assuming you want at least a 50% chance of "two spankos" in a group. How large a group do you need to have that probability. Both my own, and Alan''s (almost identical formulas) formulas, establish that, with 25% chance that any one member is a "spanko", it only requires a group of (approximately) five (~4.9) people in a group to likely (50%) have two spankos present. NOW THAT IS A FASCINATING AND SOMEWHAT EXCITING NUMBER. IT ALSO MEANS THAT, ROUGHLY, IN A MIXED GROUP OF 10-11 PEOPLE, THERE IS ROUGHLY A 50% CHANCE OF BOTH A MALE AND FEMALE SPANKO BEING PRESENT (ASSUMES NO DIFFERENCES IN "SPANKO INTEREST" BETWEEN SEXES.)
BTW: Alan's "arithmetic," above, is "somewhat off". While the equations are basically a rearrangement of my own, the final number generated (by "calculator?"; "spreadsheet program") is grossly wrong. (This should be obvious, from even casual inspection.) In particular:
(0.75^75) [not equal] 0.000178 = 1.78_E-04,
(0.75^75) = 4.26_E-10.
That is an "error" of almost TEN ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE!
However, as I stated before, the end result (1 - very small number) gives, effectively the same result. Both results agree closely enough "for practical purposes:"
P(+2 Spankos/75 member group)= 0.9998 (Alan) vs.
P(+2 Spankos/75 member group)= 0.99999999999996 (Donn).
(BTW: I originally "derived" my formula from "first principles." However, after simplification (by using common denometers), it reduces to the exact formula found in most textbooks that examine this question. It also agree with the section of Wikipedia that examined this particular "subcase" of general "birthday problems:" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem#Same_birthday_as_you.
Alan (appears to) think that
MISC. LEFTOVER GARBAGE EXTRACTION: "Alan (appears to) think that"
Delete(Sorry about leaving "messes" behind).
I'm also intrigued by that every-two-weeks system with adjusting severity and frequency. It could pair with a log with each mark adding severity. Enough marks accumulating on the log would have the husband begging for an early reset.
ReplyDeleteYeah, sometimes a caption spanking picture really intrigues me, and that was one of them.
DeleteWe have been practicing the DD relationship for almost 2 years now, and we have not developed a definite routine yet. It can be said that we have disciplinary spankings, which are prescribed for major violations, and so-called attitude adjustment spankings for minor violations or tantrums. The difference between them is that disciplinary spankings are almost always post-orgasm and very painful and memorable. Attitude adjustment spankings are a bit milder, and generally I don't have to satisfy myself first. In terms of frequency, it could be said that on average get spanked 2-3 times a month. However, after reading this article, we came to the conclusion that maybe we could or should think about maintenance spanking as just a way to relieve tension, and preventive spanking before an event seemed like a good idea. In any case, we will develop our relationship further and then see where it leads. By now, the progress is noticeable - my inappropriate behaviors are many times less, I am calmer, more balanced, and best of all, I adore, love and respect my wife many times more than I did during our marriage before DD. I have a feeling that she has noticed this too and offers me all this, only in her own specific and strict way - no fun spankings or my fantasy spankings but real spankings that often lead me to tears.
ReplyDeleteHi P.P. Thanks for joining in. It sounds like you're off to a very good s tart. Two to three times a month would probably be about the sweet spot for keeping me in line.
Delete"No fun spankings or my fantasy spankings but real spankings that often lead me to tears." Same here and, honestly, without the real disciplinary/accountability element, spanking isn't something I'd be seeking out anyway.
I get preventative spankings on a regular basis because we travel full time and I get anxious and out of control on travel days. Usually before we leave she will call me over while she sits on the sofa and lectures me about how she expects my behavior to be for the day or days we are on the road then makes me bare my bottom and get over her knee for a dose of the paddle the severity depends on how submissive I have been and my compliance when I'm told to get over her knee. Struggling or moving will be meet with a very hard swat on the thighs. If I have made her mad it will be a flurry of swats to the thighs. The sting is unbearable so I usually strive to not piss her off. If I get out of control during the day after the spanking I can expect a more severe one some time after we arrive. We have been around family so things got really off track and she forgot to give me a preventative spanking before we left. We were only a short distance down the road when she expressed her regret for not remembering. It must have been on her mind when we arrived because when I went of the rails and cursed at her while she was trying to park out big rig she announced that I had a spanking coming. That night before bed I got the spanking of my life. Almost a week later I I still can still feel it. It was the first time she had spanked me that same day. She usually has to calm down but she apparently had her anger in check and felt it was urgent that I got what I deserved.. I got a whole new level of respect for her and her authority. It must have boosted her confidence because she has been more strict with me since.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that my retirement goals include a bunch of travel, yet travel does tend to turn me into a cranky asshole. I definitely couldn't do it full-time. I need a place to wind down and get away from literally everyone. Well, my dogs can stay with me, but that's about it.
DeleteYour wife's timing is, to me, the sweet spot. The spanking doesn't happen when tempers may be flaring on both sides, and there definitely is a time period during and immediately after an argument in which my temper is flaring and any lesson she might try to convey is going to be lost on me. But, if she waits even a few hours, she could channel her anger, while I am probably starting to feel some remorse about how I acted, or at least the rationalizations are starting to weaken.
I seem to be fairly unusual here in that I receive spankings each evening. We run on the idea that one shouldn't let the sun go down on one's anger.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is good to have intimacy with everything already dealt with. I couldn't imagine the idea of making love with the beef remaining and knowing that something is coming.
I have lots of weaknesses, but I don't tend to do things worthy of disciplinary spankings every day! The "base-level spanking" therefore includes a maintenance/preventative component, which can be scaled up with its length/severity according to the disciplinary reason. Very occasionally, the spanking warranted is so severe that we might have to do some alternation, because my wife makes sure not to do it too severely for me to do anything else.
J.
That definitely wouldn't work for us. She would start seeing the whole thing as a chore, and I would see it as not having any real disciplinary intent. Basically spanking as foreplay, which doesn't do anything for either of us.
DeleteWould you consider it if proved to be very useful in maintaining the habit for interim periods?
DeleteJ.
If it's daily, then there really wouldn't be any interim periods, right? And, maintain the habit for what? If a well-behaved day or a poorly behaved day both result in the same daily outcome, then it's broken the linkage between behavior and accountability that is the driver of my need and that I think is what distinguishes DD from erotic spanking and/or BDSM.
DeleteThey aren't the same, because on days when no behaviour offences have been noticed, it is just a base-level spanking. However, if it is a disciplinary spanking, it will inevitably be much harder and/or longer. Most days, I will just feel a small warmth when pursuing post-spanking intimacy, but when I have disciplinary spankings, it is generally hard to move my buttocks forward and back!
DeleteJ.
We have tried maintenance spankings, every Friday was paddle day (until that broke :) ) but it fell by the wayside. Recently my wife has expressed interest in reviving the practice so we will see. Personally I have always found that the ‘on the spot’ punishments or at least as near to the time as possible work best. The morbid side of me ‘prefers’ my wife to be a bit cross about whatever I have done or said when she wields the strap. Those sessions are very ‘real’. I often get preventative spankings especially before we travel as I am time & detail obsessed which often results in mini tantrums. A sore backside keeps that side of me in check! TB
ReplyDelete"I often get preventative spankings especially before we travel as I am time & detail obsessed which often results in mini tantrums."
DeleteI used to get very obsessed with leaving on time but, honestly, I think expecting most women to be ready for anything on time is like expecting a compass to point somewhere other than north. It was a Zen-like moment when I finally decided to stop beating my head against that particular wall. I now often just lie and say I want to hit the road by 8:00 am, when my real preferences is 8:30 or 9:00. Also, one of our biggest stressors when traveling is I am the opposite of detail obsessed. She always needs to plan the entire route and work out the likely timing around that, while I am more naturally inclined to jump in the car or van and just head in the general direction of where I think I probably want to end up.
I would never want or need any form of maintenance or preventative discipline. my wife has taken to her role as authority/head of household and strict disciplinarian. she is still loving and caring but does not spare the rod and leans on it as a tool frequently. I am definitely living a careful what you wish for. with that being said, I have had this very exact behavioral issue of throwing fits about the time. I was disciplined for it 3 times in the last year and the 3rd time was the last. That behavior has definitely been corrected and like you I have a new outlook on it.
Delete- DD
‘ I think expecting most women to be ready for anything on time is like expecting a compass to point somewhere other than north.’ 😂😂. That will encourage the ladies to participate…! 😂😂… TB
DeleteTB, good point. I'll probably need to take that comment down. :-)
DeleteDan, it might be one particular woman, one you live with, who might decide to “participate”. If she did, I suspect it would have a considerable impact.
DeleteAlan
Alan, sorry, but which comment are you referring to?
DeleteDan wrote:"I think expecting most women to be ready for anything on time is like expecting a compass to point somewhere other than north"
DeleteI thought Anne might want to reorient your compass after that zinger. I know mine would be quickly re-calibrated.
We tried the maintenance thing but it wasn’t realistic and didn’t work out ,,, Recently Dev and I had a massive blow up. Several days later she realized I had done nothing wrong. She was very sorry and apologetic.. I said you would’ve spanked me for behaving like that and she agreed. I said maybe it’s your turn to Eve spanked . I guess the guilt was bothering her and she actually agreed. This has never happened before and I wasn’t prepared on what to do ? The only thing I could think of was to do things the way she does. I said go up to the “ spanking room “ and wait. I’d be up later to “ discuss” things. I know the waiting is difficult for me. I went up an hour later. I sat down and called her over. She went across my lap. Underwear came down and I spanked her with my hand. Firm but not harsh like when she dies me. It only lasted a few minutes. When it was over everything is forgiven. She said she has a totally new outlook and may not be as severe like in the past in the future. I gave her pleasure and all is good again. This was a first and I don’t think it’s likely to happen again but overall think it was a good experience for both of us. JR
ReplyDeleteInteresting development.
Delete"She said she has a totally new outlook and may not be as severe like in the past in the future." Would that be a good thing, from your perspective? I personally need a fairly high degree of severity for it to have much effect or to satisfy my need to feel like I've been held accountable.
Anne has always been adamant that she has no interest in being spanked, and in our case that's probably good. I have a huge, gut-level aversion to inflicting pain on women. The whole idea makes me nauseated. I'm not saying I have a problem with others doing it as long as it's consensual, but it's an aversion that is so deeply rooted that I don't think I personally could do it.
That is an interesting experience. I think my wife's experience with adult spanking makes her a better spanker early on because it got her used to the idea of adults spanking each other. It did not help her learn to spank hard at all. A man spanking a woman hard is nothing like a woman spanking a man; I never spanked my wife even 10% as hard as she's spanked me, and I don't get it especially severe.
DeleteI bet that those whose DD is more strongly maternal would only be hindered by her having been recently spanked because that authority works better when it's a more absolute rule of the house.
Those are just my thoughts. Interested in other perspectives.
I have zero desire to spank my wife for discipline. I have given her a few swats with my hand as part of foreplay. I enjoy smacking it when she is changing or getting out of the shower. I agree that I couldn’t hurt her. I would feel horrible and squeamish about spanking her like she does me. My wife thrashes me pretty hard and I deserve it. It takes a lot of conversation, trust, and good communication to make DD work. We were taught to never ever raise a hand to a women.
DeleteT
MW,
DeleteI’m driven to the maternal aspect of DD. I believe it’s probably because I was raised with a no nonsense Mother who had no problem spanking your bottom when you were out of line. We were loved but knew to mind our manners and if you didn’t then look out. The paddle or strap was waiting. My wife scolds, straps,and thrashes me in a similar way to when I grew up, but make no mistake,
that she wants me to be the strong man I am to take care of her. When the punishment is over, it’s back to a normal relationship and all is forgiven.
T
MW: "I bet that those whose DD is more strongly maternal would only be hindered by her having been recently spanked because that authority works better when it's a more absolute rule of the house."
DeleteThat's a good observation.
The mention of preventative spankings has caused me to bring them up with my partner, A.J. I requested she consider giving me one before I get together with a group of guys I often go over my drinking limit with. Most of the comments in here seem to indicate that they have been very effective. Are usually harder than regular maintenance spankings?
ReplyDeleteR.e. switching spanking roles, A.J. enjoys a pretty hard hand spanking before sex, and will occasionally
Norton,
DeleteAlthough it didn’t occur prior to me going out with the guys, it was on my mind at a stag last week. I spoke about the sever thrashing my wife gave me when I came home bombed with a friend. She laid into me with the strap. I went out a week later and knew how to toe the line. I now am careful to watch my consumption. I don’t want a repeat and it has helped me.
T
ask for one.It often yields good results when nothing else has worked. She has no desire to be disciplined, but she seems to enjoy spanking me. If there is a problem between us, a good paddling will usually resole most issues.
ReplyDeleteMaintenance days are near and dear to both of us. We do it every week. The intensity varies depending on my behavior the previous week. If I've been good, most of the time, the session serves as motivation to keep up the good work. Its not a pleasant experience. Any missteps during the week are dealt with by ramping up severity/length accordingly. Our criteria is usually centered on my habits and self-improvement goals. Mis-behavior is often dealt with more immediately. We are both interested in helping the other become the best person we can be. It's a team effort.
ReplyDeleteThese sessions are essential for us both. From my perspective, it is extremely grounding, a reminder that someone cares enough about me to make the effort to hold me accountable. I feel nurtured and loved afterward although during is difficult to withstand sometimes. The expression of our relationship anchors me and allows me to take risks that I have trouble taking historically. Knowing I have firm ground beneath me allows me to embrace the insecurity of groundless situations with more freedom. It's very liberating.
Her reaction has been surprising for us both. She draws empowerment and confidence and assertiveness that is carrying over more and more to her work and family life. Before our relationship, she did not feel able to speak up for herself. Now she has the responsibility to assert her will and enforce her wishes. She has even created an alter ego to adopt during our sessions and who's influence she will draw on during the work day as well. Neither of us predicted that and it cheers me to no end.
Your last paragraph is pretty close to Anne's history and personal development via her DD role. Other than the alter ego thing, though that seems pretty cool. :-)
DeleteThe alter ego thing evolved naturally for us, and has often proved very useful. It sounds silly, but her alter ego persona can be quite bossy, when that really isn’t my GFs personality at all. Anyway, I would still be interested in learning if preventative spankings are usually harder than maintenance spankings. I will be getting a preventative spanking tomorrow morning.
DeleteThat sounds wonderful. I've wondered if my wife would benefit from, if not an alter ego, letting one side of her drive more. I've encouraged her to feel satisfied rather than worried by spanking to the point of having an effect.
Delete@michael: I think you put it really well how your DD makes you feel. I am not sure if there already was such a topic but it might be interesting to share what DD gives us emotionally? I really like the alter ego idea. My wife just has a hard time finding inspiration of a strict dominant woman she doesn't find appaling. How did your wife go about it? Mike
DeleteI have one suggestion for a future topic: how severe are you punished during maintenance/regular spanking and how much is it differs from punishment spanking? How long the spankings last and how severe are the bruises later? Do you prefer longer spankings or shorter but more intensive? I personally struggle with the issue that I receive quite harsh and intense spankings which sometimes can bring me quite fast to tears and surrender but they often don’t leave the bottom sore for next days. I have suggested my wife to sometimes spank the tights as well and this definitely can be felt next days but hurt as hell during spanking. So what an average spanking looks like for you? One or several implements, the severity and intensity and duration?
ReplyDeleteHi P.P. Thanks for the suggestion. I'd prefer to address the first part--the severity of maintenance vs. punishment--as part of the current topic, since it was already included in this topic on maintenance. But, I can try to work the rest into a topic.
DeleteI personally prefer the short and painful ones that don't last as long, as it means I can then take more in due course.
DeleteJ.
I remember now what the other problem was when we tried maintenance spankings. My wife’s sense of justice forced her to find behaviour reasons for the spanking, even though we had previously agreed that it would be maintenance as opposed to punishment. This resulted in some resentment in me as I felt that she was often resurrecting issues that we had already resolved. The other issue that I had is that my ‘need’ is best satisfied when I have done something that deserves punishment and my wife is genuinely cross or mildly angry. Those conditions most often result in the most ‘real’ disciplinary experiences for me. TB
ReplyDeleteI feel the same that my spanking need is best satisfied when there is a real misbehavior or tantrum followed by real spanking with some real emotions. These spankings have all been memorable and it’s always exciting to think about them afterwards. All though I have not been spanked with real anger directly after misbehaving, some real emotions are sometimes still there even couple of hours or even a day later.
DeleteI suppose it is useful to see spanking as sometimes having a disciplinary purpose, but sometimes other purposes as well. And sometimes multiple purposes simultaneously.
DeleteJ.
That raises an interesting point in that we only ever have disciplinary spankings. My wife was introduced to adult DD by me and until then had no real knowledge or interest. What she gets out of it is relationship management & retribution for mis-deeds, there is almost no sexual or play element for her. What I get out of it is more complex in that I have the 'fetish' but we have developed our relationship to include physical punishment which is no fun in practice but is fun in anticipation and recall. Being beaten by my wife satisfies my 'fetish' needs but also has and continues to, make me a more amenable husband. She certainly recognizes and benefits from the latter and acknowledges but does not really understand the former. And it seems like to me that there are a wide spectrum of 'needs' & motivations amongst different couples. Some appear to be 'on the scene' attending spanding events and having a mutual interest in spanking either as a top, bottom or both. At the other end of the spectrum are the couples where one is 'vanilla' and somehow persuades the other to spank either for play, disciplinary or a mix.
DeleteI'm happy, very happy with the balance that we have achieved as I have no interest in role play or spanking her. TB
Much of this week's conversation, so far, has not addressed getting "restarted" when there has been a (sometimes extended) lapse in practicing DD.
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I have been practicing for slightly over twenty years, and had numerous lapses for a wide variety of reasons early in our relationship. It was certainly difficult both restarting and continuing smoothly from such lapses.
About thirteen years ago we discussed if some sort of weekly "devotional" could be used as an "anchor" for the DD-relationship. Something that would occur EVERY week, regardless of all the other hustles and bustles of life. We both thought it should be very short in duration, should be prescheduled at a time and date particular, and involve some sort of minor spanking, but not be spanking for punishment nor "maintenance," but more for "symbolic" purposes.
What we settled upon was a 14-15 minute "devotional session" that was very standardized, to the point of actually becoming a "ritual." Something that was so standardized and short that no matter what else, we could keep "the spark alive." So standardized that we didn't even have to think about performing it.
Every Sunday morning, shortly after waking, my wife sits on the bed in her nightclothes and I kneel naked, at "attention," on the floor in front of her. We begin, as each of us looks into the other's eyes, with my making a "vow" that is an integral part of our marriage, whereupon she makes a "affirmation" of my promise, and often adds a statement of her gratitude and appreciation. Next, me wife makes a similar integral vow, and I make an affirmation, and usually a statement of gratitude to her. We go back and forth in this manner, exchanging reciprocal vows and affirmations, thus reforming our "binding covenants," and expressing our mutual gratitude to each other, until the foundational elements of our marriage and integrated DD-relationship. There are ten vows and affirmation, five for each of us, that completely encompass our agreement. (Usually takes only five to six minutes.) It becomes a very emotional experience for both of us.
(Cont. . . .)
(. . . Cont.)
ReplyDeleteAfter our vows, we may briefly discuss that state of our DD-relationship, administrative matters related to scheduling, whether demerit logs and journals are being maintained, etc. If there has been an extended "hiatus" in DD-activities, we try to discuss when we think would be the best time to resume. Usually, these "management meetings" take less than four to five minutes. (At times, we have even conducted such devotionals and management via telephone when one of us was out-of-town.)
Finally, I'm allowed to select one of her implements. An implement she will use to "seal the covenants." I usually select her Delrin Reformatory Cane (3/8" x 32") and present it to her, as evidence of both my devotion and acceptance of her authority to make decisions. She may concur with my selection, or herself select something less severe. (She usually selects something much, MUCH less severe.)
She will direct me to assume the correct position, whereupon we will again repeat our ten vows and affirmations, with her "sealing" each covenant, after each exchange, with one full-power stroke of the implement. (Again, takes only 4-5 minutes.)
Once done, we hug and kiss, and begin our week.
My wife calls these devotions our "pilot light:' Kind of the "eternal flame" of our DD-relationship, always burning and ready to reignite us from periods of suspension. (I originally called these the "spark plug," but I like my wife's term much better. Plus, she is the "decider" in such naming.)
In many ways, our devotionals are very similar to MC and her husband's devotional affirmations and reciting of rules, as described last week. Also, very similar to AE's "Sunday morning reset/preps" (above), but more devoted to a single cause. In ways it is also similar to what Alan described (above) in that there are no "punishments" (per se) decided upon or administered during our devotionals; only the "sealing of the covenants," which may be intense, but is truly only symbolic of our commitment.
This is just kind of a "shout out" to Dan and our other members.
ReplyDeleteWe really haven't delved very deeply into how people have actually restarted their DD-practices after suspensions / hiati; neither this week, nor last week.
Does anyone have any personal examples of how they, personally, got "restarted?" Dan: Might it be worthwhile to continue this discussion of "restarts" at a future data?
We are almost "out of time" for this week, if anyone has anything to add!
TYPO CORRECTION: "future data" to "future date."
Delete-- DS
Well, I've now tried for two weeks in a row. I'm not interested enough in it to go for three.
DeleteHey, "horses to water," what can you do?
DeleteThanks Dan!
After checking in on the topic of maintenance spankings early in the week, I have not had a chance to check back until today - and found quite the conversation on statistics. By chance, I happened to do some Googling on this recently, and one study just a few years old said that 30% of adults were into erotic spanking - and it very well might be true in that 1/3 of all couples might exchange a few swats occasionally during sex play (I suspect that more men that have given their wives a few playful swats on the behind when having "doggie-style" sex).
ReplyDeleteThat said, I suspect that the number of couples engaging in true ongoing DD to be very low - probably 1 - 2% at best - and the number of those that are F/M to be 1/10 of that as most marital DD is M/F (despite our preference here). The number of men who fantasize about F/M DD is obviously higher. I had once thought it to be substantial, in fact - based on what I had read online (and listening to Aunt Kay talk about how many men wrote to her) - but based on Dan's stats for this blog (that he mentions on occasion), apparently not. It seems that true F/M DD ("DWC style") remains very niche.
--al
1/10? I can't agree with that. Most of the DD resources on the internet right now are about women being in charge.
Delete