“When defeat is inevitable, it is wisest to yield.” - Quintilian
Hello all. Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are, or would like to be, in a Domestic Discipline relationship.
I hope you all had a great week. Seems like a while since we got together. Though, honestly, I kind of needed the break. There was a little bit of blog-related drama going on with before I left, and it’s probably good that I had to step away for a week.
Anne and I did, in fact, step away, for a week-long road trip. We saw some interesting sights and, all in all, it went pretty well, even though our approaches to traveling aren’t always compatible, which can tend to make me more than a little irritable. In fact, I wonder whether I’ve ever not earned a spanking while on a vacation involving air or road travel.
It is too bad though that I didn’t have time to put together a post before I left, because Alan suggested a good one. I could swear that we’ve done one like this before, but in searching old posts I couldn’t find one. Anyway, here is his topic suggestion as set forth in two comments:
Part 1: “The Moment When?
"Running through many posts the last several weeks have been comments about why and when some wives spank as well as several comments about how hard or not hard enough some husbands are spanked. There have also been several posts about spanking style as well as substance.
The one thing that didn’t come up that I saw and doesn’t come up often, if ever, on this blog are posts describing how a husband or boyfriend is about to be punished but agonizes over whether he was going to accept it and cooperate with her, or maybe he didn’t feel like being spanked, and so it didn’t happen.
Let me personalize this to illustrate what I am saying. Most of the time, I do make some attempt to talk her (my wife) out of a spanking or at least try to “plea bargain” it some. Sometimes when I am really not in the mood or feel she is being very unfair I will verbally resist it, pushing that much further than I should.
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But -and this is the key point- there is never any real doubt in my mind that if she decides to go forward, it is going to happen. It isn’t just having respect for her and her authority; It’s also knowing that she can make me submit to a spanking whether I want it or not. She knows all the buttons to push and knows I can’t indefinitely defy her.
I actually learned about this with my former GF who said to me one day completely outside any spanking scene, “Alan, I can control your bum anytime we are together.” And I realized it was true as almost a kind of epiphany, (We weren’t living together, and I had defied her several times over the phone, so she was still working on that.)
With my wife, the training carried over from my former GF, and we started our relationship and then marriage with a DD firmly in place. So there wasn’t any ”moment when” because she was in charge probably from the third or fourth date and we both wanted and understood that.
If Dan is ever looking for a topic, this might be interesting to pursue. When did it stop being a game or experiment and start being real and permanent? Or a better question is when did you realize you had left fantasy in the rearview mirror and she really did own your ass --and you weren’t going to do anything about it except to accept what had happened.
If your experience is like mine, you “came under” a while before you realized it. With me, that ah-ha moment was a little shocking, but my former GF was more amused She told me she had known for several months and I was just catching up.
Alan”
Part 2:
“I was always afraid that if I resisted that she might lose her confidence and give up the maternal authority that I needed. So, I never resisted, even verbally.”
I get this. Although I was not as cooperative right away as all of you seem to be. In fact, I probably delayed my former GF’s full exercise of the authority I asked her to take when I did resist and tried to talk my way out of some well-deserved spankings.
Lucky for me, she stayed with it and eventually found out by herself that she was really “in charge of discipline” no matter how much I resisted. Her favorite warning became: “Are you challenging my authority”? Which I finally learned I did not want to do.
But I am proposing a slightly different topic/question for Dan to consider for the blog other than when you decided to surrender to her disciplinary authority.
The question I was raising is when did you realize you couldn’t (psychologically) stop a spanking she was determined to administer (I am leaving as a separate question the perennial consent/non-consent issue we have wrestled with often).
Put directly, when was it that you said or acted in a way that said, “No, I don’t want to be spanked,” and she said just as directly: “But you are going to be spanked, whether you want to be or not.” And you were spanked.
That happening to me is the moment that shocked me at the time. And probably was the beginning of a real DD relationship.
Maybe the question doesn’t apply to you because you decided at the beginning to submit to her always to encourage her discipline or because you had been trained earlier never to defy her, and getting spanked when she ordered it happened every time.”
Great topic. While the question asks us to identify a particular point in time when the dynamic changed, the specific change in question is one that I know is near the core of my morbid fascination with domestic discipline, namely the concept of “inevitability.”
As I’ve discussed here many times, for me a big part of the perverse attraction to this thing we do revolves around “imposed” discipline. For me to get much out of it, there needs to be the feeling that my control, my agency, is being taken away. It’s why parental spankings hold a strong emotional power over me, even if I remember very few of them. It’s also why when it comes to female authority, for me it is the “authority” that is primary and the “female” secondary.
The more that punishment has an element of inevitability, i.e. that it is going to happen whether I want it or not, the closer it is to the core of what has kept me in this lifestyle for almost twenty years.
Yet, I can’t really point to a particular moment when I became aware that such inevitability had become the reality of our relationship. There wasn’t a particular time I can think of when I really did not want to be punished yet I knew she was going to punish me anyway. Instead, I think I had a sense from early on that if I did ever refuse a spanking that she was determined to give, the whole dynamic would be undermined to the point that it might go away.
Which isn’t to say that I never try to talk my way out of it or, at the very least, delay the inevitable. I do. In fact, it’s rare that I don’t make some effort to avoid or, as Alan calls it, “plea bargain” my way into a delayed or reduced sentence.
Although it doesn’t involve the inevitability of getting spanked, I can think of one time that brought home that she had, in fact, taken a substantial amount of control and agency away from me, without me realizing it.
It happened pretty early on in our DD experimentation. In order to get her used to giving hard spankings, I had come up with a reporting and points system, in which I gave her a weekly journal entry summarizing behavioral problems that we had agreed would earn a spanking. Each offense had a minimum number of swats and there were some “kickers” built in to take account of relative degrees of rule-breaking. For example, over-indulging in alcohol might earn a minimum of ten swats. On top of that baseline amount, each drink over some pre-set maximum would earn an additional three swats. There were other offenses like failing to do certain chores or failing to do certain required but unpleasant tasks at work. Under our system at that time, swats were all delivered with a heavy wooden “fraternity”-style paddle.
In those early days, my bottom was not used to long or severe spankings. If a weekly tally reached 20 or 25 swats with the paddle, that was something I would dread.
Well, inevitably, I had one of those weeks where everything seemed to fall apart all at once. That Saturday morning, I tallied up the offenses, and it came to—gulp—65 swats! That was WAY more than I had ever taken in a single session up to that point.
I really, truly did not think there was any way I could take that many, which was exactly what I told Anne, fully expecting that she would agree that it was facially excessive.
To my very great surprise, she didn’t skip a beat in offering her much less merciful assessment. “Well, then I guess you should have behaved better.”
“But, but . . .,” I stammered, “I really don’t think my butt can take that many.”
“Well, I understand that. Yet, you are going to take that many.”
I had truly believed when I showed her the tally that she would agree it was too much and would let me off the hook. In fact, it didn’t occur to me that she would not let me off the hook. I was totally shocked at how little sympathy she felt for my situation and how willing she was to abide strictly by the system we had agreed to and that, in fact, I had suggested in the first place.
Her willingness to enforce the rules was expressed cavalierly, without any suggestion of sympathy or the slightest willingness to consider adjusting the agreed-upon system just because the outcome was more than I had bargained for.
I think the reason I remember
that event so clearly is not just the realization that I had lost some control
but the shock and disbelief I experienced at it. Not just in our DD relationship but through
most of my life I’d had a stunningly good track record of talking my way out of
trouble, yet here it just had not played out the way I was sure it would. The rules really were being applied to me in
a very painful way and it was all so out of my control. It was, as Alan called his experience, an "epiphany."
I look forward to your thoughts on Alan’s very interesting topic.
For me the moment was pretty recently... the n word paddling. She sent me downstairs and paddled me hard and fast. I would have liked to talk her out of it, but it was very obvious to me that it was going to happen and that nothing I could do would stop it. Absolutely I understand that physically I could have refused, but at the time it didn't seem an option.
ReplyDeleteFurther, since then she has introduced a number of new rules and is making things clear how she expects things to happen. This morning I was caned for not opening the curtains in the morning, and it was made clear to me that it is expected of me every day. I got one good stroke for every curtain that was still closed when she came upstairs.
"I would have liked to talk her out of it but it was very obvious to me that it was going to happen and that nothing I could do would stop it."
DeleteFor me, it's this mix of both inevitability (it is going to happen even though you don't want it to) and vulnerability (it's going to be embarrassing, it's going to hurt, and you've made yourself completely open to that).
Just this moment been subjected to inevitability again... further to the discussion a few weeks ago around the switch flipped! She is trotting out and punishing for things that I didn't know annoyed her and to which she has not warned me. Tonight she sent me downstairs to get the paddle (again brooking no argument) to punish me for breaking into the side of the new bag of carrots that she has just brought home (rather than removing the tag and going from the top). I have done this since we started living together 30 odd years ago. I, with the help of you lot, have created a monster!
Delete"For me, it's this mix of both inevitability (it is going to happen even though you don't want it to) and vulnerability (it's going to be embarrassing, it's going to hurt, and you've made yourself completely open to that)." - I wish I would have read this before I wrote my main comment below. I think this combination of inevitability and vulnerability (with attendant embarrassment) is even a better explanation for just what motivates me towards DD.
Delete-ZM
"I, with the help of you lot, have created a monster!"
DeleteAs they say, "Be careful what you ask for . . ."
With us, there is a time for discussion when I can plead my case, but it's pretty limited. I can't say that I'm never successful, but my batting average has to be below .200. Once my wife shifts to lecture mode (with the hairbrush in her hand) we both know the decision has been made. She might ask if I'm ready, but that's obviously more of a courtesy than a real question.
ReplyDeleteWe discussed this as soon as it became clear that disciplining me wasn't going to be a passing thing. If I accepted corporal punishment(and even wanted it), I would need to trust her judgement on when it is to be used. That was quite a few years ago and there has been no need for either of us to revisit the subject.
Kevin
"I can't say that I'm never successful, but my batting average has to be below .200." Regarding actually talking her out of giving me one, my batting average is even lower than that, though honestly I very seldom even try. Where my average is better is arguing for a delay, then that fairly often turns into it not happening at all.
DeleteYou guys need to become more persuasive at presenting your cases! I probably am more like .300 to .400 successful, though maybe quite a few of those times are more like Dan said where I just manage to postpone it, ultimately leading to it not happening at all. However, probably a big part of it is that the things my wife punishes me for aren't all that big of a deal for her. She is so emotionally strong that certainly if she really was set on spanking me, I could never talk her out of it.
Delete-ZM
"However, probably a big part of it is that the things my wife punishes me for aren't all that big of a deal for her." I'm sure that is a major factor in any husband's ability to delay or avoid.
DeleteThe thing that has changed for me is that she is no longer just punishing for agreed offences (things that in reality probably weren't that big of a deal for her) and is now punishing for things that have obviously really bugged her for years. So my chances to talk my way out of a spanking have plummeted. Presumably at least until she considers that I have made a reasonable effort at change and are likely to continue doing so?
DeleteFrom what you've described, she's not just spanking you for things that matter to her and haven't been agreed upon but doing it without any kind of warning that it's now something that will be spankable. I actually admire that dynamic, even if it probably really keeps you on your toes.
DeleteMark wrote: “…and is now punishing for things that have obviously really bugged her for years. So, my chances to talk my way out of a spanking have plummeted.”
DeleteThis is really where the rubber hits the road as far as evolving into a real and ongoing DD relationship. It is fine when you are working on mutual behavior goals or even goals that are mainly yours. But when she begins to spank for things that she really cares about, you are stepping onto another level of DD. The fact that she is spanking you for things you have not been warned about could be slippery if you don’t catch up to her expectations quickly.
I can really relate to the opening the bag of carrots example. Although I should have known better. The larger point is, however, that when she starts setting her own expectations and punishing you when you fail to meet them, you are opening a new door in your DD relationship
Alan
The interesting thing about the bag of carrots is that I've already found that getting carrots out of the top of the bag is a real pain in the arse compared with the ease of getting them out of a lovely big torn hole in the side of the bag (which has now also turned into a real pain in the arse). Might have to give up carrots...
DeleteI agree with you on that one. There is something about carrots in particular and frustrating bags. I too rip a hole in the side, but I then put them in a sandwich bag that is easier to open and close.
DeleteIn fairness to my wife, the spankings that I've received for offences that are new to me have been comparatively less severe - like she is using a bit of pain to lock them in so that I won't forget in the future. The N word one was severe, I think because she thinks that she has told me many times in the past.
DeleteMark wrote: “The interesting thing about the bag of carrots is that I've already found that getting carrots out of the top of the bag is a real pain in the arse compared with the ease of getting them out of a lovely big torn hole in the side of the bag”
DeleteThat must be a male “thing.” I will spend 30 seconds trying to get the closure open and then just rip. (This isn’t well known but those ties are designed by an ex-Google employee who used to design spam control systems). My wife will usually just give me a verbal spanking when she discovers it, but it comes up later in the next behavior review.
The carrots are a good example of how discipline for the “small” things can become the basis for DD. Of all people, Emily Dickinson is remembered for saying: If you take care of the small things, the big things take care of themselves.” Many women care a hell of a lot more about those small things than the issues males sometimes emphasize
"This isn’t well known but those ties are designed by an ex-Google employee who used to design spam control systems."
DeleteLOL!
"If you take care of the small things, the big things take care of themselves. Many women care a hell of a lot more about those small things than the issues males sometimes emphasize".
DeleteThis very accurately describes our relationship - my wife says that she is happy with me (ie the big stuff) or at least she doesn't want to have to start from the beginning training a new one. But it is becoming apparent that there are a number of things that I do that irritate. She is apparently now bringing them to my attention! This works for me as none are things that I feel particularly strongly about, but they do leave the threat of a spanking hanging over me and require some care and effort.
I still have bruising from the cane and so was a little concerned to get home on Thursday night and find that I hadn't opened the bedroom curtains... she hasn't commented so hopefully I've got away with it!
I will narrate my personal “moment” details later in the week. But I wanted early in the week to point out that it was a retrospective moment for me in that the “epiphany” I had was catching up with the reality, not happening simultaneously.
ReplyDeleteThe two events should coincide in a perfect world functioning with a perfect brain. But after my epiphany, I realized, OMG, yes, she was in charge, and I couldn’t/wouldn’t ever challenge that again But in the afterglow of that realization came another realization -and that was that she had been in that position for many weeks or even months.
I have related that when she and I discussed it, afterward she was amused that I had not known. Why is the spanked husband always the last one to know?
Alan
Alan, my experience was sort of like that, though I don't think it's anything that actually could be noticed at the time, because it was internal to her. I think that almost from the beginning I had decided that I wanted this dynamic and would try hard not to undermine it. What I had not gotten, up to the point that she conveyed so firmly and casually that I was going to take 65 swats whether I thought I could do so or not, was how firmly SHE had adopted the lifestyle in her own mind. Up until that time, I think I had--consciously or unconsciously--believed she was just accommodating something I had suggested and, since I had suggested the rules surely I had some control over changing them. Her attitude about the 65 swat tally showed how wrong I was about that and that she too had internalized and adopted the lifestyle to an extent that was clearly going on in the background and inside her head but that I had no real way to observe until the right circumstances came along to reveal it.
DeleteI think for many, it must be a subtle and even banal event that marks the perhaps inexorable shift in power that has occurred. Doubtless, the disciplinarian coming to internalize her role and power is a key in it happening at all. It sounds like the “moment” that you realize what has happened and the event that marks it happening were very close in time for you. My reaction was probably delayed because ( with that GF) I felt still in control long after I wasn’t any longer.
DeleteAlan
I also have no idea at what point my wife internalized DD to the extent that she knew she had complete authority. Early on I think she was ACTING tough and in charge but it was pretty obvious that she wasn't truly sure of herself. I am sure that my acquiesence helped her gain confidence.
DeleteI do think there was a change in her when she started acknowledging that her power was erotic for her. At the beginning and for years she had a firm rule that there was no sex after a spanking, and that meant until the next day. I remember being shocked the first time she initiated sex several hours after spanking me. She was breaking her own rule! I think that for her to acknowledge and act on her erotic feelings meant that her DD power was internalized to some extent, though I had no thought of this at the time. I certinly didn't question her breaking the rule. Shut up and enjoy it! Her eroticizing her power eroticized it for me as well.
But like Dan, it wasn't until "the incident" (65 swats for him, party spanking for me) that it became clear that she was in complete control and I was psychologically helpless to resist. I also was the last to know!
KOJ
Dan, I think that whole thing with her attitude about the 65 swats, and the whole strict adherence to the rules that were set would be very powerful indeed. While "Even More" might well be the best spanking story ever written, certainly the story on DWC that I have read the most times was the "A Learning Experience" that you referred to a few weeks ago. The part that really got to me was this:
Delete"And then came the first joker. After she had applied the paddle the prescribed 10 times, the meaty portion of his backside was a shade resembling Cabernet Savignon. She gave him a brief rest, and then, leaving the Ace of Hearts turned up, she re-shuffled. Her cool demeanor as she shuffled just broke him emotionally, and he began to cry a river of tears as she repeatedly shuffled and cut the deck, taunting him." - This is pretty much exactly like your whole 65 swats thing, where the wife is just being super "matter of fact." For me, this is super powerful.
-ZM
It's interesting, but that story didn't really do much for me until I actually tried a theoretical game with the variation of getting spanked based on the face value of the card (not the measly two swats with a hair brush as described in that story). When I actually tried going through several rounds to see what might happen, it showed the extent to which that game could result in a very, very hard spanking if your "luck of the draw" was poor. I don't have a lot of doubt that if Anne and I played such a game she would, in fact, stick to the rules no matter what. Because, as you said, at times she can super "matter of fact."
DeleteKOJ writes: “I do think there was a change in her when she started acknowledging that her power was erotic for her…... I remember being shocked the first time she initiated sex several hours after spanking me.”
DeleteThis often seems to be a tipping point in a DD relationship and has to have a huge impact on the direction and duration of the relationship. Apparently, some F/M DD relationships never surface conscious erotic feelings in the female. I have no personal experiences with the latter, but the internet, including this blog has described several.
My wife was a spanko when we met, so there were no surprised there. However, my former GF (who was my first real disciplinarian) discovered erotic feelings from spanking me, but only over a couple of years. Initially, she spanked for discipline, and I think saw it just that way.
My theory is that the eroticism she come to feel was related to her sense of power and authority. It’s become a cliché but “power is the ultimate aphrodisiac” (original quote by a former German who once had a part-time job in the US State Department)
Alan
It took a long time for Anne to admit to me that discipline was a turn-on for her, though she's never given me any insight on how long it took for that develop. She has always maintained that the spanking itself is not the turn-on but, rather, making me submit to it. She says that telling me to get ready for it and watching me comply is very erotic to her.
DeleteDan, I hope it’s not inappropriate for to say that I find Anne’s strictness in that incident when you had earned 65 swats to be really hot! I mean, I know eroticism isn’t the main purpose of DD, but that anecdote is hot. I’ve never been in the position of knowing in advance how long a spanking would last because we have never had a point system like that. The duration of spankings from my wife has always been dictated by her mood in the moment, and that is unpredictable. I don’t know why, but I often make excuses for my behaviour when I am in trouble. I don’t understand why I do that. Given my spanking kink, why would I try to evade punishment? Maybe it’s the embarrassment. Making excuses doesn’t normally work, but sometimes it does. Strangely, I feel disappointed when my wife lets me off the hook. On the other hand, I think she and I both know that I would never defy outright her decision to spank me. As you said, that would put in doubt the entire premise of our relationship..
ReplyDeleteGH
Thanks, GH. I have no problem with the observation about Anne's strictness being hot. Confidence and determination also seem hot to me -- in retrospect.
Delete"Strangely, I feel disappointed when my wife lets me off the hook." I suspect many feel this way after being "successful" at delaying or avoiding. I know I often do.
GH wrote: “I don’t know why, but I often make excuses for my behaviour when I am in trouble. I don’t understand why I do that. Given my spanking kink, why would I try to evade punishment?”
DeleteWe do everything we can to convince our wife we need discipline. Then when she agrees, we do everything we can to avoid it. Sounds to me that anyone who behaves like that deserves a good, hard spanking
Alan
I think it helped me with my wife that my strict mother brooked absolutely no "backtalk" (which included excuse-making and seeking a reprieve) when she announced a spanking. She expected absolute obedience, and I learned that anything else resulted in more punishment. So I usually gave my wife the same respect.
DeleteKOJ
"'Strangely, I feel disappointed when my wife lets me off the hook.' I suspect many feel this way after being 'successful' at delaying or avoiding. I know I often do." - Me too. Every. Single. Time. I have an immediate sense of relief, that last about no time at all, followed by a long period of disappointment.
DeleteIn response to GH's "I don’t know why, but I often make excuses for my behaviour when I am in trouble. I don’t understand why I do that. Given my spanking kink, why would I try to evade punishment?” Alan said: "We do everything we can to convince our wife we need discipline. Then when she agrees, we do everything we can to avoid it." - I know for me, it is all about having the DD relationship and about her having the authority. I don't like spankings themselves, though I do think they are hot when thinking about them in retrospect or at any other time other than when they are happening. However, if she never spanked me, the authority wouldn't be real. It is only because it has been and can still be exercised that it feels real. So, I encourage the relationship, but often try to talk my way out of individual punishments.
"Sounds to me that anyone who behaves like that deserves a good, hard spanking." - I agree fully. One thing that my wife and I have talked about quite a few times - but so far have never done - is implementing a system where when she "sentences" me to a punishment, I can choose to challenge it, like if I think she is being unfair or if maybe she doesn't understand all the extenuating circumstances. Then, if I am successful in my challenge (talking my way out of it), all is forgotten, but if she overrules my challenge, then not only do I receive the punishment I would have for whatever happened, but also a second punishment - perhaps later in the day or the next day or something - for challenging her authority.
-ZM
"However, if she never spanked me, the authority wouldn't be real. It is only because it has been and can still be exercised that it feels real." To me, this is the dynamic in a nutshell. I suppose you could say that if she had established psychological control I would comply with her authority without the need for corporal punishment, but that doesn't work for me in reality. For me, the dynamic centers not just on the the authority but on having it imposed on me. Also, I have to be *accountable* to that authority, which requires some kind of concrete consequences.
DeleteI just got spanked a little while ago. I was working in the garage and she overheard me say whore. She hates that word . She spanked me Tuesday for it too. It was very hard and fast. I’ll be more careful in the future. JR.
ReplyDeleteThat's unfortunate. Your wife has strong opinions regarding certain words, doesn't she?
DeleteMy wife also banned certain words that were disparaging to women or particularly "impolite." I got spanked every time one of those words came out of my mouth.
DeleteKOJ
I never use words like “whore” that are disparaging to women, but I am pretty sure I would get spanked for that. Swearing is something I get spanked for. My wife doesn’t really police specific swear words, but she hates when I lose my temper and swear in a sustained way. She says it is childish. That happens sometimes when we are driving, so I have sometimes known that a spanking is in the cards at the end of a trip. Sometimes, if the threat of a spanking later doesn’t calm me down fast enough, my wife will make a threat my mother sometimes made when I was a kid: “Do we have to stop the car right here?” That’s obviously a threat of a roadside spanking, and although she couldn’t really do that in most circumstances, I act as though the threat is real. She actually did give me a quick roadside spanking one time, but we were so far out in the boonies that the risk of being seen was very low (low enough that she also took the opportunity to pee). Motel room spankings are embarrassing because you never know how much can be heard in adjacent rooms. One time we were on a trip for a couple of weeks, so we had packed not just her hairbrush, but also the paddle and strap. When we checked into the motel, she took me into the room and spanked before completely unloading the car. She had a hairbrush, a wooden paddle, and a strap to choose from. So which one did she choose? The paddle. I didn’t ask her why, but I was conscious that the paddle was the loudest of the three implements, so maybe she wanted to increase the risk being overheard.
DeleteGH
I think Dan once quoted his wife as saying, "Why would I be embarrassed? I'm not the one being spanked."
DeleteIn your motel scenario, my wife would choose the implement she thought most likely to get the job done ASAP, with no thought of its volume. I am sure most motel maids have heard many a butt-warming!
My wife also would have made me unload the car immediately after the spanking, with all four cheeks red.
KOJ
I was curious on the result of your 65 swat paddling which does sound scary , especially with a heavy sorority paddle.
ReplyDeleteI've taken 50 with a much lighter paddle and that was bad enough to the point she eased up a bit near the end.
Did Anne carry it out with gusto or ease up?
Do you think it somehow inspired Anne to a higher level of spanking and take it much more seriously?
Assuredly she continued spanking at that intensity?
Sounds like it was a good opportunity for her to amp things up.
My wife never uses a number before she starts, although sometimes, I wish she did because it would give me a goalpost to aim for. But my former GF sometimes announced “minimums” mixed with warnings, as in “That’s a minimum of 50 if you disobey me”
DeleteShe had a good sense of what level of spanking intimidated me, and sometimes she would issue threats like “ a minimum of 75”. She never made me count, and I doubt she counted herself, but verbalizing it like that did get my attention
Alan
I don't recall many of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure she did not ease up. I don't know whether it inspired her consciously, but if you've done something once, that usually sets a new bar, right?
DeleteI agree with you Alan that I would prefer to know a set number as at least you can mentally prepare and gauge the stage of the spanking.
DeleteWhen she says a 'minimum' you just know so and it leaves her with options only.
If she announced a set number she may wish she had ordered more.
My wife never assigned a set number. It was always until she thought I had learned my lesson, and it was not clear how she determined that each time. Sometimes she would ask me if I had learned it, and woe to me if my "Yes, Ma'am," had any hesitation, even to catch my breath.
DeleteMore often she would say, "I think you've learned your lesson ... but let's be sure." Then the spanking would continue, and I had no idea how long that would last either!
But I did know that for severe infractions it would continue beyond the point that I stopped thrashing around and I fell silent. No more pleading or promising. True surrender. At this point she would slow her rhythm -- still just as hard, but with more time between swats. Her voice would get more soothing as well, rather than the stern scolding voice. It was strange, but I felt like even though the spanking was not over, the intimate aftercare had begun. In those moments and the cuddling forgiveness that followed I truly felt the love of her maternal authority, and that is what I miss most.
KOJ
I think ours are brought to an by the state of my bottom and how worn out her shoulder and arm, rather than an assessment of whether I've "learned my lesson" or been sufficiently punished.
DeleteI can sometimes talk my way out of a spanking from my wife, but it's realy just kicking the can down the road. My wife will get her way a day or so later when she'll remind me of what I did and that I better get myself ready for my spanking, which she then happily gives me with interest.
ReplyDeletePart 1
ReplyDeleteMy epiphany regarding her ultimate authority definitely occurred when I was spanked at a party, a story I have previously related. I knew that she was getting upset with me, both with my drinking and my obnoxious political commentary/sarcasm, but the alcohol had loosened my lips and I totally ignored her warnings. When I saw her go over to the hostess for a whispered word, I knew I was in trouble. I thought she was making apologies for leaving early and that I would be taken home and thrashed. But that was not the case at all! She came straight to me with her purse (that contained her hairbrush) and said "Get upstairs!"
I about choked. But I truly did not believe that she was going to spank me, because we had a prior DD "no witnesses" agreement. I thought I was most likely going to get a severe lecture. And I did not want to argue with her in front of others, so I headed for the stairs, with her right behind me. I could hear her heels clicking on the tile hallway in that no-nonsense walk of hers.
At the top of the stairs, she directed me ("Turn left, first door on the right," or something like that). It was a bedroom where the host and hostess had dumped a lot of guests' coats on the bed. There was a dressing table with a straight-backed chair, and she went right to it, turned it around, sat, and took the hairbrush out of her purse. "Take down your pants," she said in her stern voice.
I was in absolute shock. This was a violation of our agreement! She was going to spank me with witnesses! At least I considered them witnesses, because it was obvious that some of them would hear the hairbrush falling (and possibly my reaction, as I am not the quietest when getting punished). I opened my mouth to complain and we made eye contact -- and her stare sent a shiver right through me. She did not say a word but her look said everything. It said, "I am in charge, and you are going to be punished right here, right now, whether you like it or not, and there is absolutely nothing you can do or say about it." At least that's what I heard in my head.
That was the epiphany. ...
KOJ
(See part 2)
Part 2
Delete... That was the epiphany. Always in the back of my mind I had known that I was physically stronger than her, and if the punishment got out of hand I could resist. But now, as I unbuckled the belt of my trousers, I realized that was not the case! My physical strength over her did not matter. She had the maternal authority, similar to when I was 12 and could have physically resisted my mother but never even thought of doing so. Now I was in my 40s and much bigger and stronger than my wife -- but helpless to resist her authority.
I exhaled and actually felt my superior physical strength leaving my body. Her authority -- her stern look alone -- had sapped it out of me. I lowered my pants and underpants and bent over her lap and the hairbrush immediately started to fall, making loud smacking sounds that were unmistakable. She usually lectured as she spanked, but this time I do not recall her saying much at all. We both knew what I had done and what I deserved.
The spanking lasted just 1-2 minutes, but she set my behind on fire! I was trying to stay quiet, but I know I did let out some "ouch and ow." She pushed me off her lap and told me to get my pants up and get back downstairs. I wanted to ask her for a moment to recover my demeanor, maybe a few minutes in the bathroom. But her look refused me without asking, and she still had the hairbrush in her hand! This too was totally out of my control.
Now came the worst part: Walking down the stairs feeling more embarrassed than at any time in my life. I felt like I was being marched to the slaughter! I wasn't sure if she still held the hairbrush or had put it back in her purse. My legs were shaking as I descended, and I know my face was as scarlet as my behind.
The party was in full swing. It wasn't like people stopped and stared. But I did get a number of sideways glances, and it was pretty obvious that some if not most had heard what happened upstairs -- and had it confirmed by my red-faced embarrassment.
A day or two later, I raised the issue of our agreement regarding witnesses. She asked me if anyone had seen me getting spanked. I had to admit no. She matter-of-factly stated that the word "witness" means to "observe," not to "hear." I could have argued the point with some legal mumbo-jumbo, but I didn't. It was just one more example that she had the authority to punish me when, where, and how she saw fit. I could not stop her psychologically, and that was clearly more powerful than my superior physical strength. Her maternal authority was absolute, and my only job was to accept it.
KOJ
Wow. I am sure that was embarrassing and no doubt that lesson will stick for a long time. It seems that she doesn't have an issue with doing this again given her position that there were no witnesses by her definition.
DeleteI know at the time it must have seemed like everyone could hear, but I wonder if that was really the case? Parties, even relatively small ones, get pretty noisy just from all the conversations going on. Combine that with being on another floor, with the door closed . . . I wonder whether anyone actually did overhear. Though, I'm sure it would make little difference in the level of embarrassment at the time. In fact, it might be more powerful psychologically if you were left wonder whether others did overhear and, if so, who. You've told this story before, but I don't recall did your wife ever tell you what exactly it was she told the hostess?
DeleteI do see the logic in your wife's position that she didn't technically violate the "no witnessses" agreement. Many verdicts and sentences in the real world hinge on such small distinctions.
KOJ,
DeleteThanks. The detail provided really helps to understand what you experience. I suspect for you, like for me, the “moment” you realized the scope of her power lagged when she realized it. Just going up the steps, despite hoping it would only be a lecture, was certainly a point of no return.
The first “witnessed” spanking I received was with the witness in a downstairs room. The spanking was easily heard but not directly ((or visually) observed. I consider it witnessed since she experienced me being spanked with her ears at least. I do think your wife parsed some of the definition of a witness. But that is part of the authority you gave her.
As a wife and disciplinarian, she was a gem. It could not have been easy for her to spank you during the party -especially in another home. But I will bet that decisive action paid off for her. When a woman spanks you in a risky location or unexpectedly when you think she absolutely will not do it, something happens to the male psyche, maybe to the male alphas particularly.
You don’t want to challenge her in any way and begin to see “ her way” as “the way “ I try not to use the term “ broken” because many seem to object to it. But call it whatever; a woman does not need to discipline many times like yours did to cure disobedience and render defiance a distant memory
Alan
Holy mackerel! What an experience, KOJ! I must confess, when I first read your story about being spanked at a party a couple of weeks ago, I wondered whether it was a fantasy. That’s because I have fantasized about stuff like that myself and, let’s face it, on the Internet it is impossible to know whether “real life” stories are true. But having read your more detailed account, my gut tells me that you are being truthful. As I have previously mentioned, my wife has occasionally threatened to do what your wife did. A part of me thinks she never would do it, but as I read your story it all rang true to me, and I found myself thinking, “Yes, that’s exactly how it would be!” I could imagine being in that guest room with guests coats piled on the bed. The detail of following your wife back downstairs and worrying about whether the hairbrush was in her hand or her purse seemed totally realistic to me. By the way, do you think anyone saw the hairbrush or do you think she had put it back in her purse? I can imagine her taking her time to put the hairbrush into her purse if your obnoxious behaviour had embarrassed her and she wanted people to get a glimpse of the hairbrush so they would know exactly what had just transpired upstairs.
DeleteAfter reading your previous telling of the story, I asked myself what I would have done had I been in your shoes? Would I submit under such embarrassing circumstances or not? Having read your fuller account and putting myself in your shoes imaginatively, I think the answer is yes. I also think that your wife’s interpretation of your “no witnesses” agreement was a valid one. That’s made me realize, I don’t even have a no witness agreement with my wife, so theoretically there would be no breach of consent if she did what your wife did. I would add that, although I don’t think my wife would do that, I am not certain enough of that to take the risk of behaving the way you did at a party. Thinking about your story has brought about a kind of epiphany for me, which is that the nature of my relationship with my wife COULD make such an experience possible.
GH
Dan,
DeleteI saw enough looks coming down the stairs to be certain that some partygoers were aware of what had transpired. My wife agreed with that assessment but shrugged her shoulders and said it served me right.
What did she say to the hostess? She told me she asked the hostess if there was a room where we could go for a "private discussion to straighten out my husband." She always spoke euphemistically about DD, but I'm ptetty sure many folks figured it out. That hostess had quite the smirk on her face the next time I saw her.
KOJ
My only "witnessed" spanking so far was also not visually witnessed, but rather happened with my wife's friend - who has full knowledge of our DD relationship and that my wife spanks me for real infractions - in the other room. She knew before coming over that my wife was punishing me, but came to hang out anyway. As far as I know, she didn't see anything, but I will never know for sure. Each time my wife came in the room, I was blindfolded. My wife has told me that she offered for her friend to spank me, but she didn't feel ready for that. On the other hand, if the friend did come in the room, either as a witness or even if she spanked me a few times herself, and if my wife promised her that she would not tell me, my wife is very good at keeping promises, so I will never really know 100%.
Delete-ZM
KOJ, got it. It would be interesting to know whether knowing that you'd been spanked caused some uncomfortable conversations for some of the other husbands in attendance, with their wives newly aware that such a thing was within their power.
DeleteI don't know about spanking but I know there were discussions about how pussy-whipped and/or gentlemanly I was, so there were clearly discussions about female authority -- and that did make some husbands uncomfortable. A couple told me I was "showing them up." And my wife told me that some of her girlfriends asked how it was that I was such a gentleman and she talked about "training." It's very possible some other DD relationships (or at least wife power marriages) were triggered, but I have no direct evidence.
DeleteKOJ
It says a lot that "pussy-whipped" and "gentlemanly" are seen as possible synonyms.
DeleteWow, ZM, your wife blindfolding you so you wouldn’t know whether her friend entered the room while you were being spanked is genius level psychological domination! Maybe her friend didn’t want to watch, so your wife blindfolded you to make you think she might have. But if I had to bet, I would wager that her friend did watch, and she was less self conscious about being a voyeur with you being kept in the dark. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that many women who would be embarrassed to witness a man getting a pants down spanking would nevertheless watch with interest as unseen voyeurs.
DeleteGH
I think many wives would be fascinated on many levels.
DeleteKOJ
Alan,
DeleteI missed your comment above. My wife was a gem! Thank you!
I never ever felt "broken." When she first started using the term "training" in regards to our DD, I didn't like it. I am not a dog! But I came to believe that it was the right word. Consistent consequences, particularly negative reinforcement, is a form of training.
By the way, I notice a typo in my story. I was in my 50s, not 40s, at the time of the party punishment.
KOJ
Alan said: "I try not to use the term “ broken” because many seem to object to it."
DeleteSame here. I did a post about several years about wanting to be "broken," and it drew several very negative reactions. Maybe it's because I grew up around horses, but it's not a term that bothers me, as it's commonly applied to the process of making an untrained horse behave and take direction. It also does reflect what I (sort of) want in a DD relationship -- something that is very tough on my ego.
Dan, your comment about horse training reminds me of something I once saw. One summer morning I passed a horse farm while I was hiking. In a corral near the trail, a pretty young woman in close fitting equestrian gear was training a horse on a lunge line. She had a long whip in hand as she put the horse through its paces. I don’t know much about horse training, but I believe the lunge whip is used to control the horse by lightly flicking it against the horse’s flanks. It was probably because of my emerging femdom kink that I found the image of a pretty young woman masterfully putting a massive, powerful animal through its paces extremely erotic. I have since come to associate that memory with FLR.
DeleteGH
Great topic and post. Inevitably and lack of control are the most intoxicating aspects of DD and what I aspire to get my wife to accept as my accountability partner.
ReplyDelete3pops
Lack of control is definitely a big part of my DD drive, in spite of and perhaps because of the fact that I tended to be kind of a control freak in my work life.
DeleteIt was a relief for me to give up control to maternal authority.
DeleteKOJ
Lack of control and embarrassment at having to be punished the way I was as a child in order to correct my behavior are the big things with me. I don’t feel any option to resist when she tells me to go get ready. And she has total control when she pulls down my underwear.
ReplyDeleteI got my most public spanking last night, in our hotel room. We had the tv on, but the rooms were far from soundproof. The blackout curtains were open and the lights were on. Our room is on the first floor. The thin drapes were closed, but you can see through them. I was so embarrassed to be in just my briefs, then to have her pull them down, then to have her whip me with the belt in front of the window. It wasn’t a turn on. I never want it to happen again, but I fear it will tonight again. I have three more spankings to make up and Ann liked the power!
Fred and Dan,
DeleteInteresting that both of your wives have intentionally spanked you in front of windows that could be seen into. Seems pretty clear that they are adding embarrassment to the punishment.
My wife wouldn't open curtains before a spanking, but she didn't close them either. Her thing was immediacy -- the spanking should follow the misbehavior as soon as possible. Once we became empty nesters, that meant I could be spanked in any room of the house at any moment, and she didn't care about what curtains or windows were open or closed. (She liked to "air out the house," so windows were often open). I wondered what the neighbors might have seen or heard over the years, but I never got any indication. Who is going to admit watching a spanking through a window?
"It wasn’t a turn on." It wasn't really for me either, at least not at the time. I do find though that I get turned on in retrospect by almost any increase in her exercise of authority.
DeleteI did get spanked again last night. Same circumstances, except she told me to pull down my underwear. I did.
DeleteOne thing I notice. Neither time did I ask her to let me close the drapes. I don’t know whether it was because I was just totally submissive to what she ordered, or whether at some level I found it arousing and didn’t want to close the drapes.
I do know that I found her seizure of power arousing, after the fact. And, given some new angles I have some new, unusual bruises on my bottom that I love. But I do know that afterwards I wanted to crawl under the bed while I cried.
"Who is going to admit watching a spanking through a window?"
DeleteGood point.
"Neither time did I ask her to let me close the drapes." The first time ours were left open, I did ask whether she wanted me to close them. I don't think she had noticed or thought about it until then but, once I had asked, she gave a very business-like. "No. Leave them open." I asked her about it later, and she said something like, "It's just neighbors. Who cares if they see?" Which is a little incongruous, because she usually cares what others think more than I do. Maybe the fact that it isn't wholly consistent with her past concerns is indication of a big, powerful change.
DeleteI admit that I do like it when my bottom shows visible bruising. I'm not sure why. But, it almost never happens these days.
"Who is going to admit watching a spanking through a window?"
DeleteGood point.
Yes, that is a good point. The corollary is, “Who isn’t going to be curious enough to look through that window if they believe they can see without being seen?”
GH
Dan,
DeleteIt sounds to me like your wife is going through the same sea change my wife did when she retired. With no career on the line, my wife stopped caring about who knew about her authority over me. If our neighbors didn't know, they must have been hard of hearing!
KOJ
I realize that this last spanking was the most parental feeling. I had no agency. Just had to follow instructions: take off my clothes, pull down my underwear, get over the pillows. No concern with where we were or who might see. It was inevitable and I felt no opportunity to resist.
DeleteSure, I could have. But I gave that up when we agreed to this lifestyle. It IS what I wanted and what I want.
KOJ, my wife has said expressly that she feels like ending her career took off a lot of pressure to conform and to keep our lifestyle secret. She felt (probably rightly) that if it ever got out to people at work, her career could be impacted and, as unlikely as it getting out might have been, she wasn't willing to take that chance. Honestly, I felt the same way through most of my career.
Delete"It was inevitable and I felt no opportunity to resist.Sure, I could have. But I gave that up when we agreed to this lifestyle. It IS what I wanted and what I want."
DeleteFred, this is really where my head has been at almost from the beginning. I think for *her* there was a turning point similar to what Alan's topic entails, in which she decided that her authority was real and that she was going to use it whether I liked it or not. I don't think I really had such a turning point and, rather, I knew from virtually the beginning that if I wanted this, and wanted it to be real, active resistance had to be off the table. Now, as I've said, that doesn't mean I won't try to delay or avoid, but that's different than actually refusing a punishment.
"It sounds to me like your wife is going through the same sea change my wife did when she retired. With no career on the line, my wife stopped caring about who knew about her authority over me."
DeleteKOJ, I'm curious, was that a drawn-out process for her, or did it develop pretty quickly after retirement?
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteI am glad that you got a break!
This really is a great topic. I can relate to both what Alan wrote and also what you wrote.
"Sometimes when I am really not in the mood or feel she is being very unfair I will verbally resist it, pushing that much further than I should.. But -and this is the key point- there is never any real doubt in my mind that if she decides to go forward, it is going to happen. It isn’t just having respect for her and her authority; It’s also knowing that she can make me submit to a spanking whether I want it or not. She knows all the buttons to push and knows I can’t indefinitely defy her." - This is pretty much exactly where I fit on this. It kind of ties into the "confession" caption you posted above. My wife fully understands how I am wired, so in the end, I may - and most likely will - try to talk my way out of a spanking, but we both know that if she has resolved to punish me, it is going to happen. Her understanding the way I am wired, that I both want and need DD, and also her emotional strength work together to ensure that if she decides, it happens.
"The question I was raising is when did you realize you couldn’t (psychologically) stop a spanking she was determined to administer?" - I don't think I had a moment of realization, since because from the beginning of our relationship, we had either talked about (for the first few months) or had (since then) this DD relationship with her having authority to punish at will. Having said that, I do think that I have continually become more and more aware that because I am psychologically unable to stop her from spanking me, she really has all the control.
"Put directly, when was it that you said or acted in a way that said, 'No, I don’t want to be spanked,' and she said just as directly: 'But you are going to be spanked, whether you want to be or not.' And you were spanked." - I think this has happened several times, and each time it adds to the feeling of loss of control, which is mostly what I am convinced I crave, more so than spanking itself.
"Instead, I think I had a sense from early on that if I did ever refuse a spanking that she was determined to give, the whole dynamic would be undermined to the point that it might go away." - I also can relate to this. Not only do I realize that I both need and want a DD relationship (however much I may not want a spanking at the time), but also I realize that while I can protest and try to "plea bargain" my way out of it, if I directly defy her authority by outright refusal after she has decided that she WILL spank me, it would really damage the whole dynamic that I want and need.
Everything you wrote about inevitability I could have written (though perhaps not as well!)! Inevitability (and hence imposed discipline) is a huge, huge thing for me and probably what I crave the most. And probably a big part of that is related to something else you wrote: " Not just in our DD relationship but through most of my life I’d had a stunningly good track record of talking my way out of trouble..." This is me as well, and I think that somehow, it just somehow doesn't feel right, and that is a big motivation for wanting DD with punishments feeling imposed and inevitable.
-ZM
"I realize that while I can protest and try to "plea bargain" my way out of it, if I directly defy her authority by outright refusal after she has decided that she WILL spank me, it would really damage the whole dynamic that I want and need." Exactly. There is a fine line between a natural aversion to getting punished and the equally natural reaction of trying to get out of it, on the one hand, and actually undermining her authority on the other. But, the line is there.
DeleteYou're right that deep inside, something doesn't feel right about evading consequences, though at the time it always has this palpable sense of relief. Your comment is timely, because I've been re-watching Better Call Saul, it just occurred to me that your comment about how evading consequences doesn't feel right pretty much encapsulates the series' ending. I highly recommend that series, by the way. I also just finished the series finale of Succession, which is kind of testament to how kids are likely to turn out when raised with the belief that there are no consequences.
I think one of the reasons I have craved maternal authority is that it is imposed and inevitable. For me there is a sense of relief and calm that came with not being in control. It was so much easier to behave when I knew I was being held accountable!
ReplyDeleteKOJ
"It was so much easier to behave when I knew I was being held accountable!"
DeleteThis, in a nutshell, is exactly what I did NOT have growing up and what I think drives my need for DD as an adult.
Being held accountable was also missing from my childhood, and it continued for most of my adult life until fairly recently. F/M spanking was always a fantasy for me, but it wasn't until I discovered DWC that I realized it was an actual lifestyle. It remained a fantasy for a long time and I have spanked numerous lovers, hoping they would be interested in turning the tables. Sadly, that never happened. My former wife played around with F/M spanking, but eventually let me know she really wasn't interested, and in fact, was turned off by it. To satisfy my desire we agreed I should see a professional, which I did for years. It was ok, but ultimately expensive and not very satisfying. What was missing for me was real accountability and maternal authority. When I began my next relationship, I invited her to come to witness a session where I was spanked by a professional, so she could decide if it interested her. She had never been introduced to the idea, but fortunately, she liked it and learned more about it. When we first got together I often drank too much, and asked her to help me cut back, which took a long time and led to many hard spankings. Now my behavior is much better, and I have come to realize it is her authority I want, and the spankings are the result of that. Like many others on this blog, it was a slow realization. I never once considered resisting her authority or tried to talk my way out of a spanking. I am completely honest with her about what Iam doing and will self report when I screw up. She likes the level of itnimacy and my vulnerability DD gives us, as well as the power to address any problem she may have with my behavior. She has told a few close lady friends that she spanks me, which I was happy to hear. During our check in, I will share everything I put in this blog with her. We have no secrets.
Delete"During our check in, I will share everything I put in this blog with her. We have no secrets." I'm not nearly as open as you apparently are, though I'm not quite on the other end of the spectrum in which nothing she doesn't know about gets reported. As for sharing everything on the blog, I really don't know what Anne's current status is as blog reader. She wasn't visiting for a while because of Blogger's new mandatory login policy. I did tell her about the duplicate WordPress site I've been playing with, but it doesn't have any of the comments.
DeleteNorton wrote: “When I began my next relationship, I invited her to come to witness a session where I was sparked by a professional, so she could decide if it interested her. She had never been introduced to the idea, but fortunately, she liked it and learned more about it.”
DeleteThis idea and your experience with it really deserve to be highlighted -particularly in view of the dominance-submission sexuality mismatch that seems so common. Sadly, it too often seems to take a failed relationship for the spanko to realize the pervasive and persistent nature of his/her needs. From ads and discussions on the net, it appears there are even pros that specialize in couples counseling, and your experience demonstrates what a good idea it can be,
Alan
To answer this week’s question, I don’t know whether there was one specific moment when I had an epiphany that I had no control over my wife’s power to discipline me. I think I have had since the beginning of our FLR a sense that I am honour bound to submit to my wife, and as KOJ and others have said, I feel as though questioning her authority just because it is sometimes difficult to submit would put everything in doubt. I am pretty sure I would even submit to being spanked at a party the way KOJ was.
ReplyDeleteWe have never charted spanking offences, so I’ve never had the experience of knowing that I am in for a spanking of predetermined length. When we are at home, my wife generally spanks on the spur of the moment, usually because some show of bad attitude is like the straw that broke the camel’s back. Then, as she is spanking me, she will remember other things that have annoyed her. I never know how long a spanking will last because that depends on her mood. The flip side of not being able to avert a punishment once she has made up her mind is having no say in whether I should be spanked at all. My wife doesn’t like when I tell on myself because she sees that as fishing for a spanking. The hardest thing for me is when she says she is going to spank me but doesn’t follow through. For those of you for whom DD is like a contractual agreement between equals, that would probably be legitimate grounds for complaint. Because my wife and I have a full FLR, I don’t feel that I can complain. Whether to spank is entirely up to her, and she is free to change her mind. She can also discipline me in some other way. But to be left hanging, not knowing whether I am going to be spanked, can be psychologically difficult. I would prefer to know for sure whether I was going to be spanked, even if I knew the spanking was going to test the limits of my endurance, like the time Dan earned 65 swats.
GH
"I am pretty sure I would even submit to being spanked at a party the way KOJ was."
DeleteThat scenario is an interesting testament to how different my DD relationship is to the rest of my life. Outside my relationship with Anne, if someone did something intentionally to embarrass me, I very likely would move heave and earth to get revenge on them. Yet, where DD is concerned, I am very sure I would submit to something like what KOJ's wife put him through.
GH said: “Whether to spank is entirely up to her, and she is free to change her mind. She can also discipline me in some other way. But to be left hanging, not knowing whether I am going to be spanked, can be psychologically difficult. I would prefer to know for sure whether I was going to be spanked, even if I knew the spanking was going to test the limits of my endurance,”
DeleteThe context here is important. If she is just uncertain, she will spank, that is her prerogative as a disciplinary wife. This is particularly the case if discipline is solely her discretion and not something you have an ironclad, if, then, agreement. But it’s not fair for her to keep you hanging indefinitely whether or not you are to be punished. My former GF and I had what we referred to as the 24-hour rule. If she needed time to consider it ( she did sometimes because “ fairness” was her north star and she would not spank without a reason and it had to be fair)
That worked in that relationship and it might work in others if a wife is frequently conflicted as to whether a spanking ( and how severe) is warranted.
Alan
Alan, I agree. I've always found the "we're in an FLR so it's OK for her to show her dominance by deciding not to punish" problematic. Yes, it can reflect genuine dominance. But, more often it seems to be a rationalization for inconsistency and not following through on what one has said she is going to to do.
DeleteAlan and Dan, I kind of agree with you that it’s unfair when my wife leaves me hanging. Sometimes I feel resentment, which probably isn’t a healthy emotion. Especially considering that, as you put it, Dan, her prerogative not to follow through is probably a rationalization for inconsistency rather than intentional dominance. But it’s complicated because unfairness is in itself a turn on for me. The trouble is, if she says I am going to be spanked, the pending spanking occupies a huge part of my consciousness, but it’s a minor detail in her day. She might just forget. I don’t know: maybe there is a bit of sadistic cruelty involved. Although I never tell her outright that it is wrong not to follow through or argue that she has a duty to spank me, I have used my journal to communicate how agonizing it is for me. So maybe there’s a conscious element of cruelty, since she knows there is a kind of psychological suffering for me. I almost like to think so because it’s nicer to think she is dominating me and hasn’t just forgotten about me. I never get pushy or argumentative about it because I feel as though the odds of her following through are better if I don’t complain and just hope that she will remember.
ReplyDeleteGH
"But it’s complicated because unfairness is in itself a turn on for me."
DeleteI get that dynamic and am wired a bit like that myself. But, I guess the relevant questions I'd have if I were you asking her about it are: (a) is the goal to modify behavior, or serve a kink?; and (b) what role, if any, does accountability for bad behavior really play in the DD aspects of your relationship.
Now, it may be that your dynamic is centered on kink and not on anything like behavior improvement or accountability. But, I'm sure that could have a huge impact on the "top's" approach.
I also look at our DD relationship through the lens that I'm not the only one that DD is supposed to improve. In being more dominating and controlling, Anne is supposed to be gaining more confidence, "leadership presence," comfort with making decisions, etc. Basically, she's developing stronger, more consistent leadership skill and presence. That isn't served if she's not showing consistency then rationalizing after-the-fact as dominating through inconsistency.
Those are good points, Dan. The way I have imagined my wife leaving me hanging as a form of domination sounds way more like kink than DD, now that you mention it. Ironically, my wife would be the last person to say that DD is kinky for her. She never spanks me just to show that she can; she only ever does it for a definite reason that can be clearly articulated. As to behavioural goals for DD, my wife would probably say that she is satisfied with the control her disciplinary regime gives her over my behaviour and my attitude. I see your point about your not being “the only one that DD is supposed to improve.” I’ve never thought of it that way, and I doubt if my wife has either.
DeleteGH
I always thought of the wife's personal development through DD as an unexpected side benefit, but maybe it should be a selling point for husbands seeking DD! Great observation, Dan.
DeleteKOJ
For us, it was kind of an unexpected benefit, though I think from fairly early on I saw that her becoming more confident was a good goal for both of us.
DeleteWhile my wife changed her mind about a lot of things (the woman's prerogative), I don't recall her ever changing her mind about giving me a spanking. When I read other comments here I guess I should feel fortunate that my wife was so consistent with DD. My rear end was not so grateful.
ReplyDeleteBut in all seriousness, the consistency (inevitability) of consequences really did make me a better man.
KOJ
KOJ, from all you have said, I surmise that your wife enjoyed spanking you, which would be a great motivation for her to be consistently strict. She wouldn’t forget a spanking was due if she was looking forward to it, would she? Alas, my wife doesn’t seem to have that motivation. I’ve been thinking about the spanking your wife gave you at the party. I wonder, when she put her hairbrush in her purse to take to the party that evening, might she have been looking forward to the possibility that your behaviour would provide an opportunity to put it to use under novel circumstances?
DeleteGH
I do think consistency is pretty important if behavioral change is the big goal. Some habits and drives are hard to break and aren't going to change much if punishment is sporadic.
DeleteGH,
DeleteMy wife carried that spanking brush (in addition to a regular hairbrush) in her oversized purse for years. She called it a "deterrent," and would thrwaten me withbit, which worked. But I never expected her to actually use it outside the home!
She had a stern, businesslike demeanor when punishing. I never had any inkling she was enjoying it until it became erotic for her. After retirement she got more playful and public with her threats and dominance. The party was well after retirement.
KOJ
Delete“I do think consistency is pretty important if behavioral change is the big goal. Some habits and drives are hard to break and aren't going to change much if punishment is sporadic.”
Dan, I think that is right. Thinking about it, I didn’t have any big behavioural goals of my own in mind when I asked my wife to spank me. To be honest, my initial interest was purely sexual. Unfortunately, my wife wasn’t into spanking as kink. Proposing DD in the context of a 24/7 FLR, however, caught my wife’s interest because it gave her a kind of power with immediate practical benefits, such as shifting a larger share of the housework to me and giving her the last say in arguments or disagreements. My only stated behavioural goal was to be a better husband, and FLR empowered her to “educate” me about what that meant for her. Although spankings have been sporadic at times, her exercise of authority has been fairly consistent…at least until my health issues started.
Come to think of it, “that moment” for me involved my wife’s exercise of authority rather than an actual punishment. She had asked me to do some chore. I fully intended to to it, but before I got to it, she confronted me while I was reading and pointed out that I hadn’t yet done it. I told her I would do it as soon as I finished the article I was reading. “You’ll do it now,” she said. I had to bite my tongue. The pre-FLR part of myself wanted to argue that I was an independent adult and could set my own priorities. Before I could say anything, she asked, “Do I have to spank you? Is that what it takes to make you do as you’re told?” You might think that, given my spanking kink, I would have defied her command to “do as you’re told” to provoke a spanking. Instead, I responded that there was no need to spank me, and I hustled to do the chore. It wasn’t easy to swallow my pride back then, and it still isn’t. KOJ used the term “pussy whipped”. My epiphany was that I was indeed pussy whipped. I was aware that some people would feel contempt for such a display of servility, but as Maxwell Smart used to say, “And loving it.” I think I actually got an erection from submitting to my wife’s command under threat of punishment. But for a spanking threat to have that psychological effect, the threat needs to be real.
GH
I've had somewhat similar experiences regarding chores, with her interrupting me when I'm reading to tell me to do something. I definitely do not get an erection or otherwise get excited as it is happening. But, in retrospect (hours later, at least) the authority seems sexy.
DeleteMy Moment. Part I —It wasn’t that dramatic or even unusual, except that it was the first time she totally seized power between us and that I realized what was happening “ in the moment” – but felt strangely unable to stop it as it played out, almost as if I was observing it as a third person.
ReplyDeleteI also realized later (in one or two days ) that she had possessed that power and authority for weeks or maybe months. We had even previously talked several times about the coming time when she would have total authority to discipline me. But when it happened, I realized I had doubted it would ever happen.
I found out that night that I could not defy or disobey her if I wanted to, and that night I really did want to. But when she led me through the now familiar steps of preparing to be spanked, I just went on autopilot. I even lied to her as she looked for her sauna brush and spanking chair, which she kept at my apartment --telling her I has “just masturbated” because she knew what that meant. It didn’t slow her down even a little.
A couple of days later, when we were alone, I told her of my shock, and she was amused that I “hadn’t known” because she did. In fact, I should have known. She had frequently said something to me like, “When we are together(physically) I can control your bum whenever I need to” (we did not live together at the time, and there was still an obedience problem when she gave me an order by email or telephone) rather than in person
In fact, that particular problem of physical proximity led to the night in question. Here is what happened: During a summer holiday, she had a house guest staying with her. But we had spent several hours together alone earlier before she had to return home early that afternoon. During our time together, I probably came close to earning a spanking, but it didn’t happen, and we actually had a chance to make love for the first time in several weeks. When she left, she asked me to call her later that night, and I did—several times.
Those calls, somewhere between about 8 and 11 at night, were a little acrimonious. She was feeling some stress from her house guests, and I was drinking generous amounts of excellent beer, and we did have a couple of arguments. She did threaten consequences a couple of times for my behavior. But I was happily tipsy and “knew” she would never order me over there because of the house guests. She did drop the “Are you challenging my authority” threat, but I ignored it because I was “safe” Eventually, we said good night, and I hung up, drifting off the sleep.
Alan
Part 2 ---The next thing I remember was her waking me up with a big smile on her face ( she had a key and had let herself in). Over and over, she accosted me, saying I had challenged her authority and I was going to be spanked. As I slowly woke up. I remember mumbling No, No, not now it will be heard and that sort of thing (it was well past midnight, and the walls were thin)
ReplyDeleteBut she was having none of it. She grabbed my arms, pulled me out of bed, slipped my shorts down, and started pushing and pulling me to the front room, where the spanking chair was. She didn’t know where the sauna brush was, so I had to bring it to her. No lecture, no “this is because,” none of that. She just sat down, pulled me over her lap, put a leg lock on me, and started.
Every step of it, my mind told me to resist or try to delay, and I kept thinking it was a bad idea and I could stop it-- but none of that happened. I think when she fastened me over the chair, I realized nothing would stop it, and I just surrendered to it.
It probably was one of the half dozen or so hardest spankings she ever gave me, although I don’t remember much about it, and my mind must have blanked it out. But the next day I had an athletic event, and I saw how bruised my ass was, and it stayed marked probably for a week at least.
When she finished, she stood me up and said something about “how natural that felt or how good it felt (I can’t remember her precise words). We kissed and cuddled some, and then she left, warning me, “Don’t masturbate after I leave”
Before returning to bed, I remember having mixed feelings of euphoria and dread but more euphoria. It had finally happened, But my ass was swollen and hurt like hell. I finally had what I wanted and needed, but I was acutely aware that there was a real price to pay for it.
That was it except for our long talks when her guests left and later about what had happened. As we talked, I became almost giddy about it, and she was very pleased with herself. I remember her exact words: “I was very proud of how I handled that.” She should have been
Alan
"It had finally happened, But my ass was swollen and hurt like hell. I finally had what I wanted and needed, but I was acutely aware that there was a real price to pay for it."
DeleteI think this is the combination that has kept me in a DD relationship for almost 20 years and that guarantees I won't actively resist. Having my sense of agency and control taken away from is both powerfully attractive and powerfully threatening. Deep down inside, I know I need it and part of me craves the taking away of control. But, I also know the price to be paid and that it's real.
“I was very proud of how I handled that.” I love that!
Alan,
DeleteThanks for your story! Explains her taking control psychologically very well.
I like that you had long talks about it. That is one thing my wife and I did not do that I now regret. She was a matter-of-fact, practical woman, and shw was more into doing than philosophizing. We never had the "meta" talk about our DD, at least not to my satisfaction. But I feared that if I probed that she might start questioning whether it did make sense for a wife to treat her husband like a son. She had told me, "I'm not your mother" and had set some parameters at the beginning of our DD (no sex afterwards, no total nudity), I think to make sure I was not living out some Oedipal fantasy. Ironically, that meant she spanked almost exactly like my mother! But I made sure to never say that.
Our lives were going smoothly, so why rock the boat with questions?
KOJ
Sorry late to the party Dan, we have been extremely busy with friends and family visiting during the holiday week.
ReplyDeleteWe were blessed with tremendous weather and had a great two day party filled with laughter and fun. I was reading the above and I admit that I could never picture my wife bringing me upstairs into a room and thrashing my bottom at another persons home. I must admit, I have thought about her giving me a good spanking out of state, while at relatives homes. As far as that moment in DD, when she “owned” me, I can’t put my finger on it per se. We dabbled in erotic spanking and at my suggestion during love making, I explained my need for maternal discipline. Like KOJ above, I prefer my “thrashings” to be Not totally nude and no sex afterwards. Although, this does not occur every time a spanking is given. My wife has told me she enjoys punishing me. She at times gets hot and bothered. At other times, she is pissed and just wants to beat me to get her frustrations out. She is also the type to let things go immediately after punishment is over. Most women are not like that. I do wish my wife was as strict as KOJ’s was.I prefer my thrashings to be administered like in my youth, she pulls down my pants and underwear, she remains fully clothed and proceeds to thrash my bottom. I’m either dismissed or put in the corner and she carries on. As far as witnesses go, I chuckled at a few comments above. My Mother would always enter the bedroom, close the windows and pull the blinds shut prior to a spanking. My wife now does the same if it’s summer. As far as witnesses go, the only “witness” to our DD is her best friend from childhood. I brought this up to her, after I heard a comment on phone. My wife said her friend was the only one that knew about our DD. She did admit she told her she thrashes me when I’m out of line. I’ve never cared because she lives out of state. I would be open to my wife spanking me on the phone with the speaker on. I don’t know why the change on my part, because I would never want this out in the open in our lives at home. I think maybe it could benefit her. Her husband is definitely in need of DD and my wife told her it would improve their marriage. He’s aloof and lazy. I’m not sure it went anywhere.
T
"My Mother would always enter the bedroom, close the windows and pull the blinds shut prior to a spanking." I don't know exactly why, but there is something about that image in my mind that is very compelling. Waiting for a spanking is such a nerve-racking experience anyway. Just coming into the room would have made my heart jump, and the formalized routine of closing the windows and blinds would have driven home that it was about to happen.
Delete"I would be open to my wife spanking me on the phone with the speaker on." Wow. I have never thought about that before, but what a great way for those who have witness fantasies to get a taste of it.
I'm curious, would you be as open to a FaceTime or Zoom call, where someone could watch you being spanked, or is that more embarrassing to the point that you would not be OK with that even if you would be OK with "witnessing" over a phone call?
DeleteI have to admit, you have me perversely intrigued with the whole idea. Though, for us, the "witness" would probably have to be someone in this group, because the one mutual friend we've told isn't at all interested in the lifestyle. Though, in reality, this is purely academic speculation, as I don't think Anne would have any interest. Though, a year ago I didn't think she'd spank me with the window shades open.
T wrote: “I would be open to my wife spanking me on the phone with the speaker on”
DeleteSurprisingly, this topic has not come up more frequently. For anyone curious about witnesses, It seems a straightforward but relatively safe way to stick the proverbial toe in and test the temperature.
I do remember reading several accounts earlier that described similar scenarios. I have never been spanked with speakerphone on, but I think it would evoke many emotions triggered by an actual physically present witness.
It resembles the situation I experienced the first time my former GF spanked me within earshot of her friend. I never had to face her friend again that day since they left while I was doing a long corner time. That is what I suppose a spanking over a speakerphone would be like
Alan
"It resembles the situation I experienced the first time my former GF spanked me within earshot of her friend. I never had to face her friend again that day since they left while I was doing a long corner time."
DeleteI'm not sure whether that would make it better or worse for me. If didn't have to face her right after the spanking, I think I might be even more embarrassed the next time I saw her.
The second and only other time I was spanked like that I did have to face her after returning to the dinner party. My ego was crushed and didn't find myself spinning any fantasies about " how she reacted". I saw that clearly and felt there was nothing to conceal or deny any longer. I had certainly lost status in her eyes because by that time she knew it was real and I could see that.
DeleteAlan
But the first time, I imagined all sorts of things about her reaction because I never saw it or was told anything about it until later
"I had certainly lost status in her eyes because by that time she knew it was real and I could see that." That loss of status is something I think I would really struggle with, if it were to happen in front of someone I know well. And, assuming I was being spanked for something real, perhaps losing status and having to deal with that would be a good thing.
DeleteI had not considered lost status. I am punished by a woman who loves me and meets my needs. I have fantasies about being punished by others but it is a very different dynamic, even assuming that they are open to it.
DeleteOne of my wife's best friends is one of the obvious likely candidates (based on her being here at least weekly). I'm not sure that I want "lost status" even though I think that I would like my wife to punish me in front of her.
It would not surprise me if it happens one day, or if in fact she already knows that I'm punished. Watching the rugby with 6 0r 7 friends a week ago, wife made the statement that "we'll address that later". I'm not sure if others picked it up, but I certainly did! To me it signals an escalation by her and a foot in the water...
Lost status may be in my future or as Alan says "be careful what you wish for"...
The comments about “lost status” have me wondering, what is the exact nature of the status that would be lost in the eyes of a witness to a spanking? Would it be like being seen as less of a man? Emasculating? Infantalizing? Would there be some loss of respect? I wonder whether some wives would prefer to keep DD secret because they wouldn’t want their husband to lose status in other people’s eyes?
DeleteGH
For me anyway, I wasn't too concerned to be thought of as less of a man, but a loss of respect would possibly bother me - particularly because I see her every week. I think though that she respects me enough for other things to mean that there may be no loss of respect. Interesting question...
DeleteDan, that would be way too embarrassing for me to be on a zoom or FaceTime. If my wife brought it up to her friend, I would be open to the speaker. I think I would be comfortable with it because, I don’t have a relationship with this women. I might see her once the rest of our lifetime. If it would help her with a potential DD relationship, then I would be all for it. Based on the crap he pulls, he deserves a good no nonsense whipping. Her friend was a bit stunned, due to my alpha ego and the stories my wife has told her about me. At first I was taken back, but then I realized her knowing would never out me. We do not run in the same circles.
ReplyDeleteT
Does your wife think there is any chance her friend's husband would go along with a DD relationship? The problem is obviously that the people who need it the most may also be the most resistant to it.
DeleteI get how the lack of a relationship with this woman makes her knowing less embarrassing, though I admit that for a long time I was very resistant to *anyone* finding out, even total strangers. For example, the thought of someone in the gym seeing a bruised butt would have been mortifying. Today, I would never go out of my way to display it or publicize our DD relationship, but I don't think I would be nearly as concerned about inadvertent discovery as I would have been even a couple of years ago.
I don’t think there is a chance of a DD with her friend, but she is definitely intrigued by the notion. My wife did not elaborate, but a bunch of questions were asked by her friend. Dan, I think you are correct in the amount of people that need it are most resistant. It’s funny, I was not mortified when my wife told the customs officer, “don’t worry when we get back to the room, I’m going to whip him back into shape”. The island’s custom officer response was good, that’s what crass men need,
DeleteA good whooping. I know I turned beet red, but for me I knew I would never see her again, so it didn’t affect me. I was embarrassed but not ashamed. My wife did take me back to the room and tanned my butt good. Now if my wife attempted to bring me upstairs in a party setting with close friends, I would immediately decline and remind her of our arrangement.
For me, spanking is about discipline, and discipline is about control. I want the conditions to be parental in nature, and there is no one moment when I suddenly realize her control is real because it would be that way from the beginning, and by her design. It is her will to discipline, not me having to explain anything to her and constantly reassure her that she is giving me what I want. This is what she wants, and before our relationship became a committed one, she would have explained to me that she is a disciplinarian, and though she will be as safe and fair as a parent would be, if she decides I need to be punished, I will ultimately have no more control over my fate than I had when I was a child. That is what works for her, and that is what she is asking of me in this relationship wherever it takes us. My only power in this regard is that I choose her to be the one.
ReplyDeleteThat's the fantasy, and so that is the hoped for reality. I see men talking about submitting to domestic discipline like this quite a lot but, unfortunately, I rarely see a woman expressing her interest in such a thing. Apparently, males enjoy the idea, while the natural and genuine disciplinary wives and potential wives out there are keeping quiet.
Anne does express interest in that kind of control, and in the last couple of years she has expressed it more openly as maternal authority and equated it to a mother disciplining and unruly teenager. Now, the reality never quite catches up to our discussions about it, but I do like that we seem to be on the same page that the authority model is very parental, and neither of us are shying away from admitting that.
DeleteI applaud that because that’s where I want my wife to be at. I’m driven by the maternal discipline surrounding DD. I want the scolding along with the spanking and the point to be driven home rather harshly. I want to be thoroughly punished and feel remorseful for my actions.
DeleteT
Scolding is one of those things that I've found I'm attracted to in theory but not so much in practice. When it actually happens, it doesn't seem to really do that much for me. But, it's possible that it does something for her that leads to more appreciation of her own authority.
DeleteI can’t stand videos about F/m DD because the fake scolding always seems really lame to me, maybe because makers of spanking videos can’t afford talented actresses. I would love to see an actress like Judy Dench or Gillian Anderson do an F/m spanking scene with scolding. I think my wife enjoys scolding because she has never given me a spanking without a real dressing down, and sometimes I feel as though she can spank me with words alone. Like spanking, scolding is unpleasant in the moment. One hurts the bottom; the other hurts the ego. But I find it erotic in retrospect. Dan, I can imagine scolding leading a woman “to more appreciation of her own authority.” Almost every man posting here has asked to be spanked. I doubt that many have asked to be scolded. Thus, when a woman adds a verbal element to spanking discipline, she is making it her own.
DeleteGH
Most of the videos really are pretty bad. Dana Specht, for example, clearly gives real spankings in her videos, but her lectures before the spanking are cringe-inducing.
DeleteI have asked my wife to scold. She is doing it more (and more credibly) as her confidence in her authority grows. For me it is part of the whole deal... if someone is just hitting you it is not punishment or DD unless they are making it very clear why they will or are doing it.
DeleteI do think that we have to understand that scolding effectively is not easy, and I think is even harder if you are not really mad. You are asking someone to create an extended coherent monolog with no input from the others. I couldn't do it.
Mark, that's a great point. Scolding probably is a much harder skill to develop than is merely giving a spanking.
DeleteThus, when a woman adds a verbal element to spanking discipline, she is making it her own.
DeleteGH”
This is so true. My wife lectured from the start, but she mostly worked off the script her former husband had used with her. But the mountains moved when she broke through that and found her own voice. For both of us.
A woman does find her own power as much in the verbal discipline she administers as in administering physical punishment. Both are synergetically intertwined, but neither works as well without the other
Alan
Mark, I think you are right that scolding effectively would be difficult if the woman didn’t feel confident about her authority, or if she was just going through the motions because she thought that is what was expected of her. In those cases, the scolding is almost like role playing, which takes some talent, as we see from unconvincing spanking videos. My wife only ever spanks or scolds for her own purposes when she is angry or annoyed, so there is no play acting involved. I suppose she would also have to know that you take her authority seriously to have the confidence to scold effectively. I can imagine that some women may prefer to let the spanking speak for itself because it’s hard not to take physical pain seriously.
DeleteGH
So much to talk about here! "A woman does find her own power as much in the verbal discipline she administers as in administering physical punishment. Both are synergetically intertwined, but neither works as well without the other" - this is so true Alan. For me I am very unlikely to repeat an action if I've been both scolded and spanked. It's sort of like if its the former it's just nagging, and if its the spanking it is just a spanking because that is what she does (almost like a form of nagging), but tie the two together and it becomes truly "memorable".
DeleteGH - mine also only spanks for her own purposes for things that she is annoyed by and there is no play acting, but I can see that even in that situation effective scolding is not easy. She needs to be confident in her authority.
Interestingly as she gets more confident, I find myself quite unconfident and not sure what to do or say until directed (rabbit in headlights)... and this is where I find myself doing as instructed, lowering pants, bending over etc. But the time between the scolding starting and the instructions is very uncomfortable for me. It is really weird.
Just thinking, if anyone ever witnessed my wife spanking me, I think the scolding might embarrass me even more than the physical part of the spanking. Is that weird or do other people feel the same way?
DeleteGH
Based on my experience with scolding outlined above GH, I am sure that you are absolutely correct. It would be mortifying!
DeleteWhen scolded I get stuck in a loop of thinking of excuses, wondering what is going to happen (is she going to punish), thinking on how this is embarrassing etc. All of this thought means that I'm incapable of response. It would be a lot worse with an audience.
I don't understand why scolding would be a problem for a disciplinary wife. My wife is not into this at all, but she never has any problem explaining to me what she doesn't like about something. :) A real situation requires no acting. If there's a script, it writes itself. When a parent scolds a child, that parent needs no acting skills. Just say what needs to be said. An important aspect of spanking for me is that there is a real legitimate reason for punishment. If my wife can't articulate that reason, or has little to say about the circumstances, then I'll question her thinking.
DeleteGood scolding, though, for the purpose of causing feelings of shame and humility, comes from her enthusiasm for it. This is in part why I would want my wife to be the initiator and driving force behind our DD relationship. She's not just doing this for me. It is what she wants, and as long as she is fair about it, she makes the experience of being punished a memorably humbling event, possibly even more consciously so than a good parent would with a child. She doesn't have to worry about damaging my ego, but she knows how to give it a good spanking. We don't pretend that this isn't a source of fulfillment for us, but punishment legitimately earned is punishment nevertheless.
Brett, an adult authority figure (mother, teacher, etc) scolding a naughty child doesn’t have any difficulty because they feel their authority is real and entirely natural, so they don’t feel self-conscious about it. A wife providing DD to a husband who has asked for it may be inhibited by self consciousness because treating their husband like a naughty child may not feel entirely natural. Therefore, no matter how real the reason for discipline, it may feel like role playing. As I think about it, my wife is probably good at scolding because she wasn’t inhibited about criticizing me or expressing displeasure even before we had a FLR. The difference is that before FLR, I would always get defensive and argue with her. Once she was able to combine scolding with spanking, on the other hand, there were no more arguments, so she could scold me with gusto. My wife also had a career as a teacher, and from what I have heard, and can easily believe, she was a no nonsense teacher who ran a tight ship. There was no corporal punishment in schools where we live, so DD is different than school discipline in that sense, but I suppose her career contributed to the no-nonsense demeanour she brings to DD.
DeleteGH
Brett, although there probably needs to be more research on all aspects of sexuality, research that has been done shows quite conclusively that a majority of women find submissiveness in men unattractive. Now it could be argued that DD, unlike full FLR, doesn’t necessarily involve male submissiveness. But it may look like submissiveness to most women. I think, however, that women are more adaptable than men, so when a woman learns that her husband needs DD, she may be able to step into the role of disciplinarian for the sake of her marriage. In doing so, some women discover that they enjoy the power, as attested by some of the husbands who post here. My wife was able to take up the hairbrush, but she has absolutely no interest in reading about it, writing about it, or talking about it. Since lots of spanked husbands but hardly any disciplinary wives participate in online fora like DCC, I surmise that most women are like my wife in that respect, even ones who have apparently learned to derive erotic pleasure from the disciplinary role. We men, on the other hand, are so deeply affected by DD that we need to read and write and talk about it, even though our wives are disciplining us in real life.
ReplyDeleteGH
GH wrote: “My wife was able to take up the hairbrush, but she has absolutely no interest in reading about it, writing about it, or talking about it. Since lots of spanked husbands but hardly any disciplinary wives participate in online fora like DCC, I surmise that most women are like my wife in that respect, even ones who have apparently learned to derive erotic pleasure from the disciplinary role”
DeleteThis has been my experience, too, and like you, I suspect most women in female-led DD relationships participate very little or not at all in blogs devoted to the subject. My wife, who is a spankophile, nevertheless doesn’t spend much time reading about it and probably would never comment about our personal life in one. Part of it comes from the “know it all” syndrome (that could get me in trouble)
But both women with whom I have been in a serious DD relationship gave off at various times versions of “ I don’t need to read any more about that. Or “I know all that” The bottom line is that often, they would rather spank than read or talk about spanking.
I don’t know if that’s a gender thing or peculiar to F/M relationships, but I do think it describes many relationships. Wives and girlfriends will seek out specific information they need when they need it. But beyond their practical interest in disciplining their partner, they have little interest in talking or writing about it
Alan
It seems what I want to be is not the reality, certainly not common anyway. All I want is for a woman to have the same feelings about discipline that I do. She thinks about it every day because it's her fetish. I don't want it to be just a mundane practicality for her, where she only thinks or talks about it when it's necessary, and otherwise isn't interested. That may be better than nothing, but far less than ideal. If she's not really interested enough to talk about it, then I doubt we'd be a good DD match. What are the real motivations behind her desire? And I want her to be into the idea of discipline beyond just how it applies to us personally. She wants to know how others practice it, and she is compelled to share with others her perspective on it.
DeleteThere are some women like this out there but, it's relatively rare and, because they are in high demand, they have little time for chatting. If a genuinely enthusiastic disciplinarian can have what she wants any time she wants, the urge to talk about it may be diminished.
Brett, I agree that the ideal disciplinary wife would be really into spanking as a fetish the same way we are. I am grateful to my wife for the way she adapted to my need for FLR/DD, but I would be dishonest to pretend that we are a perfect match in that respect. Your description of a woman for whom spanking is “a mundane practicality” that she only thinks about “when necessary” perfectly describes my wife. I love her and I value my marriage, but I sometimes wish she was as enthusiastic about spanking as KOJ’s wife. That being said, Brett, I detect a paradox at the heart of your kinky ideal mine. You and I both seem to have a fetish that is grounded in our experience of maternal/parental discipline while growing up. For that reason, we both need spankings to be, not only realistic, but entirely real, i.e. done for real disciplinary purposes. In other words, we want our wives to spank us the way our mothers did. But here’s the paradox: when our mothers spanked us, surely it was for them “a mundane practicality” that they only thought about when necessary. How do you think about that paradox?
DeleteGH
Brett, I do think there are women out there who have the same feelings we do about discipline and are just as into it. The problem is, they are bottoms.
DeleteI do have a friend who used to have an active FLR blog, written from the female perspective. She was very into DD and FLR, enough to spend a lot of time writing about and then later reaching out to me. So, there are a few female tops out there who are into it and up front about it. Though, even she stopped blogging after a while, as live got busy. FYI, her blog is still up and is in my blogroll, but it hasn't been updated in a long time. https://learningandlivingaflr.blogspot.com/?zx=78c7b9f48f52f6a1
GH: Yes. A fetish that desires practical punishment is a paradox, but it's an illogical contradiction that doesn't get in the way of my desire for it. I just accept it for what it is. If a set of circumstances matches my fetish, it is going to fulfill the desire regardless. My vision of spanking is modeled after real parental discipline but, as an adult, it can't actually be what it purports to be. What I want is a wife who represents the parental figure (father or mother), but she is not that parent, and I am not that child who was spanked. My wife is my equal partner who is the complement of my desires. When circumstances dictate that she be the parent, she assumes that role because she enjoys it, and her understanding in doing so comes from the same illogical place mine does. The key is that it conforms to the logical, legitimate justification for punishment, and then we run with it from there. To be honest, I don't know the results we would derive from this kind of discipline, but the desire is to take the journey, and to recreate emotions I experienced growing up, that my wife can also appreciate as meaningful.
DeleteThanks, Dan. I'll check out that blog. And you're right, there are countless women bottoms out there who have the same feelings we do. I've talked to many over the years. A woman, regardless of her particular discipline desires, will always draw an avalanche of attention, but the problem for them appears to be quality not quantity.
DeleteGH, I agree with your statement wholeheartedly. My wife has no desire to read or write about DD. Our home is pretty much run by me. We make joint decisions together but she pretty much leaves decision making to me. She was attracted to me for my strong male driven personality. She liked my alpha ego and felt I would always protect her. Initially, she would have been turned off by submissiveness. Overtime though, she has transformed into someone who can correct my negative actions quickly. I think like other wives on this blog, she found my attitude quite changed after a good thrashing. I am taking down a few pegs and I see the change in myself as well. When I sit uncomfortably for a few days,
ReplyDeleteI am reminded of why I was spanked in the first place. My wife is a great disciplinarian when she is on. I also agree and have stated that she does now enjoy giving me a good thrashing. Initially, I don’t believe that was the case, she became comfortable with it overtime by my positive feedback and my need to be held accountable.
T
Scolding can create a vulnerability and intimacy just as powerful as spanking. My wife used to sit on her straightbacked chair, gesturing with her hairbrush as she scolded, with me standing in front of her with my pants around my ankles and my hands at my sides. She liked to ask scolding questions before putting me over her knee: "Have we discussed this behavior before? Have you been spanked for it? Did you promise not to repeat it? Then why are you here? Is this your idea of being a gentleman? What do I have to do to get you to behave? Do I have to thrash you within an inch of your life? When are you going to start acting like a grown-ass man?" Etc. Etc.
ReplyDeleteOver the years I went from hating these scoldings to appreciating their power to help improve my behavior. Experiencing her level of disappointment was just as impactful (pun noted) as the pain to follow.
KOJ
KOJ, your wife’s scolding style was similar to my wife’s, with lots of questions well calculated to induce feelings of shame and promises to do better. GH
DeleteI admit, I'm still kind of at the "hate them" stage. Though, I do admit they can be effective in making her point. One thing Anne does not do is hold an implement as she scolds, or come into the room with one. I think that might be a very powerful element.
DeleteDan,
DeleteMy experience really resonates with KOJ’s comments concerning the impact of scolding. Your mixed feelings about it MAY be due to not being put in that “naughty little boy” or “guilty teenager” state of mind that seems to deflate the alpha male ego while emotionally preparing him for the humbling effect of a scolding to be followed by a spanking.
Anne may be moving too fast before psychologically preparing you for discipline. I believe this is an alpha male thing that the beta male submissives don’t necessarily experience. But alphas need some sort of emotional transition before they can fully respond to discipline.
That is why pre-spanking corner time can work as well as the practice of rituals that may be idiosyncratic to you but put you in the ready-to-be-disciplined state. I have several of these triggers, which I have mentioned earlier and shared fully with my wife. They do work
Alan
Thanks, Alan. I don't think mine is much about being in the right state of mind for discipline but, rather, that my Alpha personality is just very not OK with scolding. The act of scolding tends to produce one of two reactions in me. If it is just kind of proforma and part of her usual pre-spanking process, I'm usually bored or distracted. On the other hand, on the few occasions that she has been seriously angry or upset, I tend to take it very personally, i.e. my ego gets bruised. Not so much in the moment, but certainly after it is over. I don't think there is really a way to handle the latter through the pre-spanking ritual. I think it's more about just continuing to scold as much and as strongly as she wants, recognizing that hard scolding simply are hard to take, at least for those of us who, as you say, are alphas and don't actually get off on being scolded.
DeleteDan, for me I really really do not get off on being scolded. I hate it. In life in general I take criticism very badly and invariably push back on it - I try hard and like to think I'm clever and competent and I loathe being told otherwise.
DeleteHowever, I take scolding from my wife. It is very humiliating and uncomfortable while she is scolding but it is like the spanking clears everything away. A hug afterwards assures me that everything is ok with the world.
Mark, I too will take it from my wife and really not from anyone else.
Delete