“Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men.” -Thomas Huxley
Hello all. Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couple’s Club. Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, a Domestic Discipline relationship. I hope you all had a great week.
I suspected it would be a dangerous thing to ask this crowd for advice on what Anne should do about my recent forgetfulness, and rule-breaking, and arguing. Here’s a summary of the comments:
• “Once my wife punished each and every offense, my memory improved. It wasn't a conscious change. The spankings help condition me to perform my chore. If you are spanked every single time you leave the garage door open, eventually you will be conditioned to do it without thinking.”
• “I feel you should have been spanked for each occurrence of the garage door situation. We also try to punish as soon after the incident as possible. She would not wait till evening, but rather, upon finding the garage door open, immediately spank you for it.”
• “I feel that when it is a safety issue like the garage door that the response should be strict. You should have gotten a spanking for each and every instance.”
• “This is fairly simple in our house. If there are multiple offenses, then there are multiple spankings, usually on different days. If it is a repeat offense then it is multiple spankings, again on different days. A couple years ago this meant that for multiple, repeat offenses that were fairly serious for me, I got 2 a day, 3 days per week, for a month. It was just plain awful. ”
• “Like many others, I agree Anne should spank you each and every time the garage door is left open, or for any other thing you continue to do that annoys her. I get spanked quickly after any misbehavior.”
• “At least for me, mixing issues up in one session just doesn’t work. I would keep the spankings for different issues separate, especially because of the entirely different character of each offense (intentional or not, etc.). If this means multiple sessions, I think she should do them on sequential days and in increasing order of importance: forgetfulness, procrastination, and finally outright rule-breaking.”
• “The idea my wife and I have had, but never done, is that if she says I am to be spanked, I could choose to “challenge” it and explain why I thought I shouldn’t be spanked. If she agreed with my reasoning, then fine, no spanking. If my points are all valid, but she still thinks I deserve a spanking, then I get a spanking. If she thinks my reasoning is weak and I am just trying to get out of the spanking, then she gives me the spanking and then some additional pre-determined punishment for trying to get out of it, like 50 hard swats with the paddle or 12 stripes with the cane or something.”
Well, there you have it. The prescription we’ve talked about here many times for actually changing behavior: consistency, strictness and severity.
Here is how it played out in real life. When we were in bed on Wednesday night, she asked me about whether I’d done something that broke one of our rules. I admitted that I had. She told me that I’d be spanked first thing the next morning. Given our usual issues with consistency, I thought there was a fairly good chance she would forget. Nope.
It didn’t happen first thing in the morning, but by mid-morning I’d received a hard spanking over her knee, with what have become her go-to instruments, the ebony hairbrush, and long-handled bath brush.
The next day, I gave her a journal entry that included the above summary advice from the group. I pointed out that I was doing so very reluctantly as part of suggesting a second spanking was in order because what I’d be spanked for the day before wasn’t the only recent offense; there had been efforts to argue or delay. It is very rare for me to carry through on suggesting or asking for a spanking, but for once I kind of wanted to push things forward in terms of consistency.
She agreed and that morning I found myself bent over the bed for another spanking. This time, consistent with ZM’s advice regarding arguing, I suggested she use a paddle (though I didn’t bring up his reference to 50 swats).
We used to use fraternity-style paddles a lot, but over the last year or so her go-to implements had really narrowed down to the hairbrush, bath brush and a leather paddle or strap. It’s probably been at least a year and a half, perhaps two years, since I’ve had a hard session with a wooden paddle.
Which is the impetus for this week’s topic. For some reason, the paddle caused some fairly substantial bruising, but most on the inside of each cheek.
It’s become atypical for a spanking to leave me with significant bruising or marking, other than some oval-shaped discoloration than can sometimes last a day or two.
That wasn’t always the case. When we first started DD, a significant paddling with the fraternity-style paddle could leave me bruised for several days. Yet, even though we were newcomers, it surprised how quickly Anne got comfortable with even very substantial and long-lasting bruising. It never seemed to make her very squeamish. In fact, she would sometimes make me drop my pants to show her my butt’s condition and would express disappointment if the marking wasn’t impressive or faded too quickly.
However, when last week’s paddling left me bruised, she did get squeamish. I’m really not sure why. We talked about it afterward, and I reminded her that I used to bruise a lot and that it never bothered her. The reminder did seem to help, and I assured her that she should not let bruising or marking lead to terminating a spanking “early.” (Though, I admit I’m glad she didn’t give me anything close to ZM’s recommendation of 50 swats.)
One other obvious issue with marking is it might be seen by others, though in my recent case the bruising didn’t last long and was confined to the inside of my cheeks where it wasn’t very visible.
I could have easily had such an unintended viewing experience a few weeks ago, however. I went to see a dermatologist to have a worrisome spot examined. It turned out to be nothing problematic, but the dermatologist suggested a full-body screening, since I hadn’t had one in a while. I complied, and I was lucky in the timing. I hadn’t been spanked in two or three weeks, so there was nothing to see. Though, it could have gone the other way had I timed the visit differently.
If I saw a guy with bruising on his butt, I probably would attribute it to spanking but, of course, there are times that supposition could be dead wrong. I should know better, because I’ve had at least one very significant incident of bruising that had nothing at all to do with spanking. Four or five years ago, I took a bad fall after a business dinner. I was walking from the second-story restaurant down a flight of very steep concrete stairs. I’m not sure exactly what caused it, but both my feet came out from under me. My body’s full weight came down on the intersection of my butt and the corner of one of the concrete stairs. I could barely walk back to my hotel. The bruising was bad that night and, by the next morning I had a deep black and purple bruising covering both cheeks. It looked pretty much exactly like what you’d expect from a very severe paddling.
Tell us about your experiences with marking and bruising. Does it happen often?
Is it an express goal or, rather, something she tries to avoid?
When it’s over, does she inspect her handiwork or ask to see the damage the next day?
Does she take pride in the tangible evidence of a job well done or, rather, does significant bruising or marking make her squeamish? Do you ever look at your own marks? What feelings arise when you do so?
We've talked before about whether bruising or marking have been seen accidentally by someone who isn’t aware of your DD lifestyle? But, what about something more intentional? Have you, or your Disciplinarian, ever intentionally displayed a marked or bruised bottom to someone or consciously left it on display for others to see?
Have you ever seen someone else’s butt and deduced they probably had been spanked recently?
I hope you all have a great week.
My wife is unphased by marks and blood. She uses wood and rubber paddles. The wood always draws a little blood. She likes seeing marks that last a day or two. She also likes it when I tell her that it hurts to sit. It isn't a matter of enjoying my pain as much as evidence of a job well done. She has never wanted to show others.
ReplyDeleteShe often takes a picture of her handiwork. They frequently get posted on our blog. I guess that is an anonymous way of showing others what a good job she did.
When we used rubber paddles, they were actually much worse than wood for both blood and bruising.
DeleteSimilar here. Depending on which paddle is used bruising will occur. Dev doesn’t set out to intentionally cause any bruises but is collateral damage when a spanking is given. A few times blood appeared. Not purposely but it happened. I can always tell. After the paddling is completed , I can feel the area involved. As we all know moving can be sensitive and sore for a day or two. ( maybe longer ). She admires her work as well. Sometimes she talks about the color of my behind changing various stages of red as the spanking is given. Now with these cell phones a photo can easily be taken. She’s recorded a few as well. It’s different watching the same spanking later. JR
ReplyDeleteWe've never recorded one, though I'm sure it makes for interesting viewsing.
DeleteAlmost two years ago I bought my wife a Jokari paddle off EBAY. It instantly became her go to tool for spanking me. We started over her knee but we both felt it was better applied with her standing and my bending over the bathroom counter. It hurts way worse than the hairbrush or bath brush, but it does not usually leave marks just makes me red but it she goes long enough and hard enough my skin becomes chapped the next day it still hurts a little but really very little in the way of marks. However, I have received two memorable over the knee spankings with it that left me sore for most of a week. I feel like if the offence was hurtful to her then the consequences should be painful for me. I can usually see by the pain in her eyes when I said or did something that hurt her feelings. I want her to justifiably blister my backside for hurting her. The Jokari paddle does not quite do it. I have been looking for a paddle or piece of wood in an antique shop that I could drill some holes in so that it would leave marks or blisters. She is fine with the Jokari but would be okay with some marks if the offense justified it. The more memorable the spanking the less she has to spank me. Once I got punished over a silly argument on how to best handle the ice in freezer. We buy Ice because the ICE maker quit working after a few months. We picked up the ICE nearby and brought it home. She instructed me to put the whole bag in the freezer for a while before trying to break it up and put it in the ICE container. I did not listen and argued with her and just opened it and dumped it into the container. She was frustrated and that evening I ended up in the corner. The next day we talked about it and she paddled me with the Jokari paddle. It sure hurt but did not leave any marks. The funny thing is every time I get her ICE from that container for her Tea or Water. I think about the spanking I got, and it reminds me to listen to her or I will be over her knee listening while she does the talking. My point is that while there should be some enduring pain from a spanking to make it memorable. The lecture is every bit has important. While I was being spanked, she made it clear that it was because I did not listen to her instructions and did not do it the way she wanted but the way I wanted. She expects me to trust her enough to do things the way she wants.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised the Jokari paddle hurts worse than a bath brush.
DeleteI have been spanked with both. I'm not sure which is worse. For me it is the Jokari but I think it is because she likes using it more. I think if she liked the bath brush like she does the Jokari it could be a lot worse because I believe it would leave marks more easily. She seams to relish using the Jokari and as manged to spank me hard enough with it on occasion to not only leave marks but to leave me chapped like a very bad sunburn. In fact I am just healing from one of the most severe spankings she has given me. I got paddled last night when we got home but she was not near as severe because I was not fully healed. I love that she is becoming more dominant. We had a long talk about trust because I know I have big issues around trusting her to lead, not because she is not great at it but because I have had issues with trusting any one my whole life. The spanking last night was for not listening to her intuition and of course she ended up being correct about the situation and if I had listened to her yesterday would have been a better day for both of us. Not listening to her was in reality the same as arguing but at the time I thought I was right so I ignored her suggestion and continued down the wrong path. Her intuition is almost always right but those trust issues got me paddled again last night.
Delete“I think it is because she likes using it more. I think if she liked the bath brush like she does the Jokari it could be a lot worse”
DeleteThe above is interesting because I am beginning to experience something similar. A year ago I would have said, hands down, the long handled bath brush was the most severe. I still think it is effect on me, both physical and psychological, is powerful
But my wife has been becoming more and more interested in straps. (And in collecting them) She has told me they just feel “natural” to her. I honestly don’t know what this means but she seems to get in a zone with straps that hasn’t happened or not happened much with wood or plastic.
We have talked earlier and various on this blog about the various instruments but I don’t think the matter of fitting the instrument of correction to the disciplinarian has entered the conversation .
Alan
Ward: "Not listening to her was in reality the same as arguing . . ." Well put.
DeleteAlan: It is interesting how tool choice can change over time, for both parties. We've had some notable swings, and now I seem to be coming around full circle. When we first started DD, we relied heavily on wooden paddles. Over time, however, I came to feel that some of them were too severe and caused me to "man up" in a way that wasn't helpful to taking responsibility and feeling accountable. Now, however, I seem to be doing something of a 180 on that, and I feel the paddle chastises me more when I really deserve it. During that period in which I wasn't into paddles, I was very into straps.
Anne on the other hand, didn't seem to have any real tool preferences, until she bought her own bathbrush. And, she's never liked canes.
We like the bath brush because it's a quiet implement, but it is almost impossible to use enthusiastically safely. It's hard to tell how it's landing. We find it's just not something that lets us push to the edge. It would be a great implement for pushing well past the edge into new territory, though, if we were to agree to a really severe punishment!
DeleteI guess I have an iron butt because I when a spanking is over I never think it was severe enough. However, while it's happening I would say anything to make it stop because it really stings. The issue is that 30 mins latter it is like it never happened. The thought of the pain during is a deterrent but the lake of continued soreness makes it forgettable and thus makes it to easy to repeat the offense. She does not want to have me constantly ove her knee but if it isn't severe enough to remember that is what needs to happen to remind me
DeleteSorry hard to type on a phone
DeleteAside from cane welts, I do not bruise easily or long lasting. The red hue could last two days after a long and hard paddling. She does not have bruising in mind as a goal but is not squeamish or forgiving if it happens. She does check my butt the day after and if there is a tell-tale sign, she may say something like 'I guess I gave you a good one'. I have never caught a glimpse of a spanked ass but mine has been seen on more than one occasion. The day after, at the YMCA, I had showered and was walking to the sauna. A few guys were following to the same destination. There was some snickering, pointing and comments which I did my best to ignore. When they had left, another fellow came over as said, I hope you enjoyed your spanking. He winked and said, "I enjoy mine".
ReplyDeleteWhile Anne seldom uses a cane, I'm sure welts are the norm long after bruising may have stopped. In fact, one of the few times I've had significant marking in the last couple of years was one of the few times she used a cane, and the marking was mainly on my hip, where the the can wrapped around and the tip bit into the side.
DeleteI'm not sure what I'd do if someone snickered. Ignoring isn't usually my style, though I'd also probably write it off as my own fault for putting the marking on display.
I don't get as much CP of my butt as I used to, but I've noticed that I now mark, and feel the bruises, more than before. Apparently something about how the body, after regular and repeated spanking, builds up fibrous, somewhat elastic tissue in the baseline layers of the skin. Originally, when we were just getting started, I would easily bruise (both shallow and deep, depending upon the implement). After about that first year, it became very difficult for my wife to cause significant bruising with her paddle or straps, and when I did bruise it seemed to rapidly clear. I also noticed that I wasn't as sensitive to her strokes during the spanking, or in the days thereafter. Apparently, I was "building up armor."
ReplyDeleteMy wife would regularly inspect her work, and considered the marking, and persistent pain in following days, as indicators of how well she had made her point(s). It was certainly NOT something she sought to avoid. Later, as I built up even more armor, she became frustrated that she wasn't truly "getting through" to me and the bad behavior. Her solution was greater use of a cane, and then later, a denser and "stiffer" (glass-fiber filled Teflon) cane. Man, that thing hurt! She still has that Teflon cane, but rarely finds a need to use it. (There are rare exceptions when she will still that Teflon cane, but now that I am much more sensitive, I keep telling her that it is way too much; it is inhumane. She simply says, "It's supposed to hurt, A LOT.")
I've checked out my own marks in the mirror a few times, mostly trying to get "intellectual feeling" between the amounts of marking the levels of discomfort.
As far as I know, no one else has ever seen my markings, although my wife has teased me a few times about showing off her handiwork to some of her friends.
"Have you ever seen someone else’s butt and deduced they probably had been spanked recently?" Yes, maybe. There is a "young, middle-aged" woman I fairly regularly see who runs her dog around our neighborhood. One day I noticed what sure looked like marks from a "strapping," peeking out along the bottom edges of her running shorts. I can't be certain exactly how the marks arose, and I certainly wasn't going to consult with my wife on that matter!
"As far as I know, no one else has ever seen my markings, although my wife has teased me a few times about showing off her handiwork to some of her friends." - This would of course be beyond embarrassing, but the thought of it just really turns me on somehow.
Delete-ZM
"My wife would regularly inspect her work, and considered the marking, and persistent pain in following days, as indicators of how well she had made her point(s). It was certainly NOT something she sought to avoid. Later, as I built up even more armor, she became frustrated that she wasn't truly "getting through" to me and the bad behavior."
DeleteI find that gap between how my butt looks the day after a spanking and how it feels to be kind of problematic. Anne often seems disappointed if there are few if any marks, but I've explained that doesn't mean that it didn't hurt at the time and is often still hurting two or three days later. The two she gave me recently left few marks (other than some longer-lasting oval discoloring similar to the third illustration above), but my butt was still aching deep inside three days later.
I have never had lasting marks and I think my husband would freak out if he bruised my bottom. He does remark how "nicely rouge" his hand spanking leaves my behind. He usually takes me from behind after spanking me, and I like the feeling of him slamming into my stinging buttocks. I find that extremely erotic.
ReplyDeleteIf he ever did leave marks, I know I would want to show them to one of my girlfriends, but I might be too shy to follow through.
I have on two occassions seen marks at the beach when a spanked woman was wearing a thong. I found that erotic as well, and so did my husband.
Cynthia Ellen
"If he ever did leave marks, I know I would want to show them to one of my girlfriends, but I might be too shy to follow through." That may be a common difference between M/f and F/m dynamics. Few men are as open as "Spanked Cowboy" above; I think very few would intentionally show their marks to another man.
Delete"even though we were newcomers, it surprised how quickly Anne got comfortable with even very substantial and long-lasting bruising."
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure that Beth has ever gotten comfortable with substantial bruising, although she has learned to appreciate a red bottom. Fortunately, I don't seem to bruise easily and she has developed a method of giving a lengthy spanking with plenty of sting that doesn't leave marks. For a little while she used a rubber tipped spatula for this purpose, but we have successfully transitioned back to the hairbrush.
I've also found that even very hard sessions with a leather strap seldom bruise. It's really the heavier wooden paddles that still do.
DeleteI am in the forces (meaning communal showers), so my wife steers clear of doing things that leave marks beyond the next morning, except say when I am on leave and I have more time for my buttocks to go back to their normal appearance.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there was a colleague who had been on leave for a couple of weeks. He returned and I noticed a small amount of bruising on his backside. He had a heavy build and his wife has a very petite build, so I didn't assume it was unwilling. When we were alone, I straight-up asked him if the marks were due to DD, he confirmed they were and I high-fived him. I haven't told anyone else about this, but we sometimes chat about the subject.
J
I hadn't thought about the military angle. It's been a long time since I've experienced communal showers. My gym did have one for several years, before they remodeled and went to private stalls. I do remember what a problem it was trying to position myself in such a way that anyone entering the shower might not see.
DeleteThat's great that your colleague admitted to it and you were able to both be open about it.
Agreed. Shame we never got round to having extremely deep conversations about the subject and shame it isn't possible now, but hopefully, I will find someone else with whom I can be open about the subject again and I can have such conversations then.
DeleteFor all I know, maybe it is an emperor's new clothes situation and there are other men in my professional circles receiving DD at home (but who aren't yet willing to go public) and it will take just one person to cause others to realise what is going on, resulting in open discussions?
Until then, it looks like it will be a case of administering DD in a way that doesn't leave marks, except for reasonably long periods on leave for experimentation when there is time for my buttocks to return to their normal colour afterwards!
J
Have you been in a situation like mine where you opened up to someone about your DD situation and then the person in question ceased to be available for such conversations?
DeleteHave you had any conversations about the subject of DD that resulted in a cascade of other things coming to light (like the hypothetical emperor's new clothes situation mentioned)?
J., you said, "Maybe it is an emperor's new clothes situation and there are other men in my professional circles receiving DD at home (but who aren't yet willing to go public) . . .: It's always possible, though I continue to think this is a fairly rare lifestyle. I don't that some may be getting (and very likely giving) erotic spankings, but I doubt many are into DD.
DeleteObviously hard to say just from the markings whether it is DD and/or erotic spanking, except possibly with the assumption that DD spankings would presumably result in more severe marks on average!
DeleteI didn't get round to asking the forces colleague referred to if he knew of other men who are in such marriages and it is unfortunately too late now. I don't think I asked him with this exact terminology, but what I remember him describing seemed to be a combination of DD and erotic spankings. Maybe he would have known of others, having been in the forces longer than me? Some colleagues were prone to their tongues loosening under the influence of alcohol, but we have the "what happens on tour stays on tour" attitude to many things, so getting people to talk can be hard.
In light of statistics naturally being very unreliable, in your "guestimation", how common are F/M erotic and DD spankings in marriages these days?
J
J, it's really hard to pin down, even in guesstimate form. A couple of data points for me are: (1) Regarding erotic spanking, it doesn't even crack the top-20 searches as summarized by Pornhub each year. I don't doubt many, many couples are into erotic spanking, but it seems to be a niche that doesn't attract a huge amount of online interest. (2) This blog comes up pretty high in any Google search for domestic discipline, wives spanking husbands, etc. Yet, on a good day it gets around 800 views. Over the roughly 9 years it's been in existence, it's received about 3.65 million views. That sounds like a lot, but it's about .001% of the US adult population per year, and that number itself is highly inflated because the total viewership is not confined to the US and many of those views include the regulars here who view multiple times a week. My guess is F/m DD relationships would be way less than 1 in every 1000 marriages. But, again, this is all pure guesswork.
DeleteDan,
DeleteI am going to suggest a topic that really deserves at least one post. For years when we discussed the question of “how many are there are out there” we have treated “erotic spanking” as something outside of DD, discipline and certainly FLR’s of any kind – at the same time acknowledging that “spanking was almost certainly going mainstream among many adults
For sure distinctions among the types of spanking are complex and appear to reside in the heads of the couple doing the spanking.
But just now I am reading a biography of Socrates. Socrates was certainly and old fart and while he didn’t deserve the hemlock, he was irritating a good deal of the time. And one reason he was irritating was his habit of questioning everything. “How do you know” was his regular refrain.
So planning to drink neither the kool aid nor hemlock I ask a question some may find irritating: How do you know when you engage in “erotic spanking” that it isn’t actually disciplinary in nature.
Think about it. Spanking as a stereotype and a template is inherently about punishment and discipline. We all learn that as children whether we were spanked to not. And in everyday language we tend to use the word spanking to describe punishment in settings as diverse as sports journalism or politics. My point is that spanking as an act and a concept is understood early as a punishment by most people
Yet we are to believe that as adults it suddenly becomes an erotic pleasure perused for its sensual pleasures or to “role play.” There is a page missing there
I don’t doubt that many adults experiment with spanking as a bedroom game without any disciplinary overtones. But once someone continues to incorporate spanking into their relationship after that experimental phase—they are inevitably using it as discipline at some level, often laughing all the way. The logic and purpose of spanking is just too compelling to argue it is just “erotic”
This also explains why many people report “evolving” from erotic spanking to DD. They didn’t evolve. They just allowed the reality of what they were doing into consciousness. Many “erotic spanker” never do this –and continue to make the distinction between what they do and the much scarier discipline stuff they would never do.
So let’s talk about whether people are into spanking or not --because the distinctions we make, between “erotic” spanking and DD – don’t hold up to close scrutiny. They are distinctions without a difference.
Alan
Thanks, Alan. I'm happy to make that a topic or people can continue the conversation here this week.
DeleteHere's my initial reaction, which I'll try to flesh out when I have more time. You said:
"I don’t doubt that many adults experiment with spanking as a bedroom game without any disciplinary overtones. But once someone continues to incorporate spanking into their relationship after that experimental phase—they are inevitably using it as discipline at some level, often laughing all the way. The logic and purpose of spanking is just too compelling to argue it is just “erotic”."
Without any intent to feed you a dose of hemlock -:-)
My initial reaction is that the quoted paragraph is kind of a non sequitur. There are obvious overlaps between disciplinary and erotic spankings, and it might be that real life spanking stimulated a desire to *simulate* disciplinary spankings in an erotic context. But, the desire to simulate a disciplinary spanking doesn't mean that the simulated experience becomes real, let alone that it is inevitable that it become so.
If this were a Venn diagram, it seems like you're insisting that if there is an "erotic" oval and a "DD" oval the overlap is 100% My view is that just because there is an intersecting oval between Oval Erotic and Oval DD doesn't mean that there is 100% equivalence between the two. The fact that A includes B, and C includes B, doesn't meant that A = C.
If anything, based on the anecdotal evidence, I kind of see the argument working in reverse. People may incorporate DD and believe they are doing it for purely non-erotic purposes, but for one or both parties it either becomes erotic or they come to admit there is an erotic element to it.
IMO, it's not the case that these are distinctions without a difference. We've discussed here before why many of us believe DD is not some subset of BDSM or DS. I believe that there are important distinctions in intention/motivation and also desired effect/outcome.
You also said, "They just allowed the reality of what they were doing into consciousness." I'm always suspicious of any argument that depends on its opponents being oblivious to or incorrect about their "real" motives or desires. Seems like that Freudian view of things has been pretty well debunked. I personally don't like it because the assertion that someone thinks they are acting for one reason but really it's another reason isn't provable one way or another, and taking that position would require me to assert that I really know more about what makes someone tick than they themselves know.
My two cents. Hopefully that won't purchase must hemlock.
It sounds like an interesting topic.
DeleteJ
Dan,
DeleteThere is a lot to unpack here, so late in the day as it is, I am going to respond to your response bullet style and will flesh it out as appropriate when we have a topic on it.
• First, we are dealing here almost entirely at the level of theory in the absence of hard empirical data. I am challenging the notion that so called erotic spanking is different in kind from the punishment/discipline element in a DD relationship
• Second your allusion to a Venn diagram doesn’t capture at all what I am hypothesizing here. A continuum is closer to what I mean with light playful “erotic” spanking at one end and serious DD on the other
• Thirdly evoking the concept of the unconscious to explain behavior has not been “debunked” Indeed it plays a role in almost all psychological modalities
• Finally, Freud also has not been overturned as much as out of favor. (despite all the PSCHY prof 101's who don’t know any better.
Freudian ideas are still incorporated into many therapeutic modalities. He is out of favor more for economic reasons driven by insurance companies than clinical ones. Psychoanalysis takes too dammed long.
Have a good weekend
Alan
Hi Dan,
ReplyDeleteGreat topic, and one on which we have not focused for a while.
“Tell us about your experiences with marking and bruising. Does it happen often?” - Every time my wife spanks me, my bottom looks pretty bad right when she finishes. However, even most of what looks like serious bruising fades almost immediately. Bruises that last for days and days or at times almost a week used to happen pretty frequently, but now are exceedingly rare. I think part of this is that I don’t bruise nearly so easily now, and bruises tend to disappear much faster now. But also it has been a long time since I have gotten a very long, hard spanking, and my wife’s choice of tools has also changed over time as well, so it is hard to say how much each of these factors contributes.
“Is it an express goal or, rather, something she tries to avoid?” - Quite frankly, if you want to make a punishment truly effective, I think bruising is necessary and even desirable. Sting might be unbearable, but it only lasts for the duration of the spanking; as soon as the spanking stops the sting stops. This momentary pain might be undesirable in the moment, but it is not likely to change my behavior or attitudes. Real learning and change happen over a longer period of time when I am constantly reminded of the spanking everytime I sit down or even when my pants rub against my skin. This simply won’t happen unless there is bruising (whether visible or not). My wife agrees with all this, but often doesn’t make it so.
“When it’s over, does she inspect her handiwork or ask to see the damage the next day?” - Yes. She often takes a photo of it. And she often wants to see the results later, like the next day. This inevitably results in her being disappointed that most all the marks are usually gone.
“Does she take pride in the tangible evidence of a job well done or, rather, does significant bruising or marking make her squeamish? Do you ever look at your own marks? What feelings arise when you do so?” - This is the best question, but the hardest to answer. My wife does very much take pride in the tangible evidence, BUT she is also very squeamish about seeing bruises. And this applies not only to spanking related bruises or bruises she causes, but in fact to any and all bruises like those I acquire when working on things, even when I assure her that they don’t hurt at all.
This may have gotten better with time, but if so, not all that much. And in fact I think in some ways she was better about it before, since she occasionally left some nasty marks. But it just depends, because sometimes I am surprised when she is spanking me and she sees dots of blood and just casually says “you’re bleeding” and then proceeds to wipe the drops away and keep spanking. That would never have happened in the beginning.
“We've talked before about whether bruising or marking have been seen accidentally by someone who isn’t aware of your DD lifestyle? But, what about something more intentional? Have you, or your Disciplinarian, ever intentionally displayed a marked or bruised bottom to someone or consciously left it on display for others to see?” - We have never had anyone see bruises or marks either accidentally or intentionally. However, I do see quite a bit of potential for this one. This seems to fit somewhere between someone knowing about a spanking having happened and between them actually witnessing a spanking. It would have most all the embarrassment of them actually seeing a spanking, but since it shifts the time from the actual act, it is perhaps easier and less threatening for them than it would be for them to actually witness a spanking take place.
“Have you ever seen someone else’s butt and deduced they probably had been spanked recently?” - Not that I can think of. I have often seen girls butts- generally when they are wearing bikinis - that could be reddened from a spanking, but I am quite certain that in most if not all cases the redness was just from them sitting down too long on a hard surface.
-ZM
"However, even most of what looks like serious bruising fades almost immediately. Bruises that last for days and days or at times almost a week used to happen pretty frequently, but now are exceedingly rare."
DeleteSame here.
"I think bruising is necessary and even desirable. Sting might be unbearable, but it only lasts for the duration of the spanking; as soon as the spanking stops the sting stops. This momentary pain might be undesirable in the moment, but it is not likely to change my behavior or attitudes. Real learning and change happen over a longer period of time when I am constantly reminded of the spanking everytime I sit down or even when my pants rub against my skin."
Again, same here. That reminder when your pants rub against your skin seems particularly distinctive to me.
I would be a little afraid that seeing bruising but not seeing the actual spanking that led to it could scare some witnesses off.
Ann doesn’t start out trying to leave bruises or to break skin, but with the severity of our spankings and our implements, both happen frequently.
ReplyDeleteAs to people seeing them, mostly Ann is of the opinion that if I earned the spanking, dealing with people seeing the marks is my problem. With Covid, gyms were closed for a long time. Now that the one at work is open I’m back to that.
It’s pretty safe, actually. The anti sexual harassment training and policy is so strong that it would be a great risk to mention bruising on a butt, much less suggest a spanking.
For about a decade, I worked out in the gym that was in the same building as our offices. Many of us had memberships, so had I inadvertently let someone see, it could easily have been someone from our company.
DeleteI love having marks and frequently admire them. I try to ensure that whenever there are good marks I have a picture taken of them. My wife enjoys them at the time and usually takes the pictures. She doesn't usually enquire about them the next day.
ReplyDeleteI've had cane marks (wraps) that have lasted more than a week and I'm nervous about others seeing them... although the idea is arousing.
It needs to be a pretty severe beating for significant marks to be visible for me much beyond the following day. Paddlings always have the grey spots the next day or two.
Ocassionally I get very stiff and sore legs (like Delayed Muscle Onset Soreness) for 3 or 4 days - I have not been able to find a reason for this and would love advice on what is causing it and how to avoid!
That is one problem with cane wrapping -- if you work out in a gym, it's usually possible to rotate your butt away from public view. Cane marks showing on both hips are harder to hide.
DeleteI would guess you are tensing your leg muscles without realizing it. Ask your wife to insist that you completely relax your lower half before each swat. If you don't, the swat doesn't count.
ReplyDeleteKOJ
Of course it is not possible to completely relax your legs if you are bent over a desk or chair for the cane. Instead, ask your wife if you can lie over pillows on a bed. This has another advantage: she can thrash you from both sides of the bed and that way even out your left and right cheeks.
DeleteKOJ
I find it doesn't really offer any strategic advantage to tense the muscles up: probably because it results in faster deceleration of the implement, making it worse!
DeleteJ
There have been many formal studies as to the specific mechanism of "Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness" (the "DOMS"). Current evidence is most consistent with nerve irritation from an inflammatory cascade. The muscle suffers "micro-trauma" and "micro-tears", which themselves are not sufficient to irritate the nerves and cause pain. Over the next 12-24 hours, an inflammatory response develops as part of the healing process. This inflammation (and its levels) is coincident with the soreness (and its levels). Most of the literature suggests that eccentric (stretching) of locked muscle fibers is predominant in such micro-tearing.
DeleteThus, a tense muscle that is struck with an object that suddenly stretches the muscle (and rapidly moves locked individual fibers relative to one another) can experience such micro-tearing.
"Relaxation" of the gluteus maximus during possible impacts would allow the muscle fibers to smoothly slide past one another, and not stretch/catch as much.
For other muscles, is it possible that you are attempting to hold, through leg muscle tension, an unusual "stress position" during CP? Might a different more relaxing position, where you did not have to employ leg muscles for stability, alleviate some symptoms? Do you do a lot of "leg kicking" during your "exercise?"
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) (aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxin) taken twelve to twenty-four hours after "exercise" definitely reduces DOMS.
Then again, there is lots of evidence that DOMS is greatly reduced after multiple bouts of "exercise." If a person exercises once or twice per week the frequency and intensity of DOMS is greatly decreased; if a person does a 2-3 week "layoff," the next "exercise" session can induce significant DOMS. Maybe you just need "longer" more "vigorous" "exercise" on a more "regular" basis? (Grin!)
Wow, I've heard it said that one should not seek health advice on the internet but I think that you (KOJ & Bonn) have given me some excellent advice. Thank you.
DeleteI believe that each time I've got DOMS the butt has been tight. Either by having to hold a position (bent over or on all fours), or related to a stiff back. I'll do some experiments! :-)
Mechanics of how to take a spanking might make a good future topic?
I find it difficult to relax when my wife is hurting my bottom, but occasionally I do and those are the really lovely experiences. Usually when she is holding nothing back and using a leather strap. I will ask her to make me relax for each stroke and see how it goes. I really don't like stingy spankings, I'm a thud fan - sometimes though a implement that would normally be thuddy is really stingy, I'm now wondering if that is because my butt is tensed.
In terms of "getting more exercise" we could both do with loosing a little weight. Earlier in the week I suggested that I be her "Whipping Boy"... If I don't exercise I get beaten, if she doesn't exercise I get beaten. If she runs with this I'll "get a lot more exercise", but hasn't happened yet.
All food for thought thanks.
Well, that isn't exactly the type of "exercise" I was joking about. I was using the word "exercise" as a metaphor TTWD.
DeleteHowever, any athletics exercises that caused "eccentric" release of the muscle might transfer over to reduce DOMS during TTWD. You might try slow, deep (unweighted) squats or lunges. Alternatively, if you have barbell with a couple hundred pounds of weight "straight leg" or "Hungarian" dead-lifts (actually, the downward lowering phase of same) will really "hit" those glutes! (NB: Make CERTAIN to maintain a negative -- "butt out" arch to your back during dead-lifts!)
Thanks guys, the advice seems to have been on the mark. I was strapped hard two nights ago and don't have any DOMS. Would like to try again with the cane because it was worse for DOMS symptoms. Anyway, I had done some deep squats before and after, ensured (as far as possible) that my bottom was relaxed, tried to avoid excessive clenching, and was restrained to avoid kicking.
DeleteReally nice to have a punishment where the pain was where it was intended to be!
The "butt out arch" is exactly what she wants to see.
DeleteKOJ
YES! Nothing opens up and exposes the "sit spot" for direct attention than a "butt up-and-out arch." That move should be mandatory training for all of us DW-Hubbies.
DeleteBoth of my disciplinarians have used some version of the butt out order during a spanking. My former G.F. would tell me to “get your naughty bum up” during a spanking when I got out of position. She also used a similar order sometimes in the corner which was always “nose to wall, bum out”
DeleteMy wife is more likely to just tell me to “get your ass up” when I get out of position. Regardless of the language the effect on me of being ordered to push my bum out is often a powerful feeling of shame and submissiveness and desire to obey.
It’s not just getting the order but the physical act of complying with it that produce the feelings. Oddly enough I don’t think I have ever talked about it with either woman, but I am sure my former GF understood how powerful it was and almost sure my wife does as well. Anyone else have this experience?
Alan
"My wife is more likely to just tell me to “get your ass up” when I get out of position. Regardless of the language the effect on me of being ordered to push my bum out is often a powerful feeling of shame and submissiveness and desire to obey.
DeleteIt’s not just getting the order but the physical act of complying with it that produce the feelings. . . ."
My wife hasn't used that command often, but I do think there is something inherently submissive about that position, and also about being made to participate in your own discipline in that way. Back when I was a kid, a friend of mine's father was a real terror where discipline was concerned, and pretty much the whole town new it. He owned a western wear store, and all of us knew that when he thought one of his kids needed a spanking, he would make them go to the rack of belts for sale and bring one to him, then he'd spank them with it in the back office. While I don't think I had any attraction to that scenario at the time, it certainly made an impression on me. Something about having to participate in your spanking beyond merely taking it was very intense. A corollary that appears a lot in spanking stories might be being told to go cut the switch that will be used on you.
Lumbar curvature isn't something my wife wants to see from me. She is too aware of the implications when she presents to me. :) She does like a nice square target, though.
DeleteDonn, what you said about "training" is interesting. In a hypothetical situation where a man says he is just about to get married, knows he will start DD on the wedding night (completely from scratch) and comes to you for advice regarding "preparation" or "training", how would you advise him?
DeleteJ
My wife does not like marks or bruises, she does like red and sore looking and so she has almost perfected her technique with the leather strap where she achieves the effect that satisfies her. She will normally set the timer for 3 minutes and just get going at a steady pace (it is a visual timer, like a large egg timer so she often misses the end and over runs!). She will frequently turn the timer for a repeat or to change to the synthetic cane. The strap rarely leaves bruises except for a mishit or wrap. The cane however always leaves marks. I run to stay fit and had to have remedial massage on one of my legs a couple of years ago. The masseur (male) asked me about the marks, I replied they were caused by a fall. He did not sound at all convinced and I have not been back to that place since :)
ReplyDeleteI do think that the discussion about relaxing and tensing quite interesting - I am often told off for 'tensing' - which I indeed do between stokes. I rarely have visible bruising but after a long session I will have that invisible residual soreness when sitting which I assume (now) is mainly caused by tensing the muscles? I will try hard to relax and see if that makes a difference (but relaxing whilst awaiting the next stroke is very difficult for me ... TB
The strap definitely is a great instrument for inflicting quite a bit of pain while minimizing bruising.
DeleteI doubt a care-giver would have accepted my "fall" story either, though in that one instance it was totally true.
We use a combination of 2 paddles. First is a ping pong paddle, which covers a wide area. The other is a narrower bamboo paddle, which is also light and has a different feel. Neither leaves marks, but both are quite stingy, which is fine, as I have a slight build. Weekly maintenance spankings last 5 minutes, and always produce some redness, which goes away quickly. However, the wrinkels seem to last quite awhile. She has been reluctant to use a cane, but my hope is she will incorperate it eventually.
ReplyDeleteI have bought multiple canes, but Anne can't seem to get the hang of them. It's too bad, because they are such an iconic instrument.
DeleteMastering the cane is not easy, especially in the traditional position with the caner swinginging horizontally and the offender bent over a desk or chair. It is easy to hit too high or too low or to land the cane diagonally or wrap it around to the thigh, which causes the wrong kind of pain, as many of us know. Much better is to have the miscreant lie on a bed with the target elevated by pillows. It is significantly easier to be accurate swinging down than horizontally, and if the bed is not sided to a wall the punisher can swing from both sides and even out the application of the welts.
DeleteAlso, the crook handle cane is more difficult to wield than a straight cane with a knobbed handle, such as wrapped in leather for a grip.
Just one welted old man's opinion.
KOJ
Currently the typical severity delivered by my wife causes marks lasting 2-3 days. She prefers canes and cords. She really likes to see my bottom sore, but blood stops her.
ReplyDeleteHowever, histoicalky it wasn't always like that. Sometimed she was simply informing me upfront to what effect on my butt she is going to spank me. It could be deep red, bloody red or deep purple. Then aiming for deep purple she was not stopping when blood occured.
We had one situation when marking caused a problem. When we were engaged, she gave me very harsh caning, deep purple one ,after which I had bery severe marks not only on my butt, but also tights and back.Being on the beach with friends I have forgotten about it and her best friend started to comment that it looks like from the beating.Immediately a our friends focused on me. I was nonvincing that this is allergy, but for sure many of them did not believed. There wers many jokes later. Also sometimes when my wife is specially angry she likes to spank me before I go to swimming pool to make it more difficult for me in the locker area to change clothes.Or she makes me go swimming in the chastity device.
I have no doubt they had a hard time believing your marks were from an allergy!
ReplyDeleteAll, must fyi, I thought I might get out a new post this week, but it's unlikely. We have houseguests and a pretty packed schedule for the next several days.
ReplyDeleteCindy does not like bruising, so she never spanks in a way to cause bruising I had significant bruising from "playing" with one woman at a s panking weekend, and it was quite terrible, and resulted in no play for the rest of the weekend. She was an idiot, and I should have stopped the spanking, so I also was an idiot. Play party??? DUH! bottoms up Red Often
ReplyDelete