Sunday, August 15, 2021

The Club - Meeting 379 - Disrespect, Unfair Punishments & Openness

“Reasonable orders are easy enough to obey; it is capricious, bureaucratic or plain idiotic demands that form the habit of discipline.” - Barbara W. Tuchman

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to the Disciplinary Couple’s Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or would like to be in, Domestic Discipline relationships. I hope you all had a great week.

 

As some of you may have intuited based on my relative lack of engagement with the blog, we’ve had a busy summer.  Unfortunately, for Anne the summer is more or less over, while I have far less structured demands on my time these days. I can’t say I’ve accomplished much with that additional free time, though that was kind of the point all along.  I’ve spent a fair amount of time puttering around playing on or with motorcycles, which remain my go-to distraction this summer, even if Sturgis is something I will have to table for yet another year.

 

 

I’ve also become fascinated with the idea of #van-life and customer camper vans.  I’ve spent hundreds of hours at this point researching vans, watching Youtube videos on vanlife, and generally fantasizing about owning such a $100k - $200k toy.  Thankfully for my bank account balance, the things are so damn popular right now, there is very little available inventory.  I’m finding all sorts of my more expensive toy fantasies are getting stymied these days by lack of supply.  I came back from a recent motorcycle event with a lengthy list of modifications I wanted to do on one of my motorcycles, only to find that virtually every part and piece of gear I wanted to buy was out of stock.  While inflation theoretically may be surging, I wonder how much impact it’s having on most families’ finances, given that while lots of things may be more expensive, they’re also mostly unavailable, so who cares what they cost? 

 

Given the state of things out there in the wider world, I’m glad I’ve had individualized distractions like motorcycles and road trips that have kept me away from the news to some extent.  So far, 2021 is giving 2020 a run for its money.

 


While I was distracted, you guys managed to keep a good conversation while I was out playing, particularly on the subject of openness.  As often seems to be the case, ZM did a good job of reflecting my own views and drives:


I have such torn feelings on the whole openness thing. On the one hand, I wish that spanking could just be a little more matter of fact, kind of like it was in the home and back in school, rather than having to be hidden. I guess I somewhat feel morbidly fascinated with the accompanying embarrassment that came with the very open discipline that was prevalent during my childhood.

 

I share some of that same morbid fascination. One reason trips to the principal’s office carried such emotional power, and why the memory does so today, is you knew what was going to happen when you got there . . . and so did everyone else!  If anything, the walk back from that office was worse than the walk to it, because on the return trip everyone knew what had happened to you, and you had to face their knowing stares.  Those teachers and principals back then knew how to concoct punishments that really stuck, didn’t they?

 

Danielle also had some great observations, including about why, even though for some us making the FLR or DD relationship more public is kind of a lurid fantasy, in reality it may make the relationship dynamic more real and less like an erotic game:

 

I think if our FLR was a totally secret thing we only did when we were alone, it would feel like an erotic game. Putting the power dynamic on display somehow takes it out of the bedroom and makes it feel more real. I love, for example, that when we have guests over for dinner, my husband is the one in the kitchen wearing an apron. If that aspect of our FLR was only practiced when we were alone, I would still benefit, but I would feel as though I wasn't really the head of the household. If it is real, it shouldn't have to be entirely hidden, should it? I guess the same thing applies to spanking. Disciplinary authority feels more real if it can be put on display.

 

Alan also emphasized how publicizing the husband’s status really brings home the reality of the whole thing:

 

Having a third party (first my former girlfriend’s best friend and later my wife’s sister) experience a spanking was like a quiet announcement to the world that I was under female authority and subject to discipline and that I accepted it. That moved DD from private where I could rationalize it was a form of kinky play to quasi-public where its reality was unavoidable and undeniable. So it altered my own self-perception from someone who could mark it all up to serious kinky play to a spanked boyfriend and later husband who was very much under female control. All of this was very healthy and brought me much closer to the core of who I am.

 

His comment about being brought closer to the core of who he really is resonated with me, though in my case it’s not a simple matter of bringing out who I really am, and I’m not sure whether there is a "real me" whose coming forth would be a good thing. . I’ll provide a little background so you can understand what I’m getting at.  It’s been a while since I wrote one of these weekly posts while sitting on a sore, swollen bottom, but that is the state of things today.  Anne recently bought a new bath brush, and this was the first time ever that she has bought something specifically with spanking in mind.  That seems like a big new step in her level of proactive interest in this thing we do, and it kind of is.  But, the reason for her employing it last night wasn’t new.  It was, as has often been the case, me over-indulging on alcohol after a party.  (Though, overall, my alchohol consumption has been way, way down over the last few months.)  What is just as telling as her buying her first implement on her own is what she didn’t use it for.  Again, some background.

 


 

Anne and I went on a road trip together recently.  Now, although I like travel, I will admit I am not the world’s most happy traveler, and my track record on road trips is kind of bad.  After a few days of long drives and poor hotel sleep, I can get pretty grumpy, and that happened a few times on our trip.  There was one point where I directed some of that ill-temper at her, and she basically said that I was lucky she didn’t have her new brush with her on the trip, because if she had she would have used it on me right then and there.  But, nothing prevented her from giving me a thorough butt blistering for disrespect when we got home.  Yet, she didn't. Instead, a week went by and then she gave me one for drinking too much -- in the evening ,at home, by myself.  And, sort of for disobedience because at one point she told me I should go to bed soon, and after she went herself, I ignored the instruction and stayed up late. But, it was really the over-indulging that led to me draping myself over her knees for a very long and hard spanking. 

 


Although I am glad she took me in hand, I see a potential problem in how things played out with respect to two separate events, either one of which could have led to a spanking but only one did.  When I say that I’m not sure that me getting closer to the core of who I am would be a good thing, I’m referring to the fact that part of who I am is someone who arrogantly loses his temper and directs that anger at others.  My temperament seems to be very close to our regular commenter, Arthur, who is spanked prophylactically once a week to keep his temper under control.  I have some of those same tendencies toward arrogance, sarcasm and aggression that Arthur and Liz have described here, and those tendencies can manifest in shows of disrespect to Anne.  We’ve talked about how it isn’t acceptable, and it really shouldn’t be. Yet, it has been very rare that she’s taken the logical step and spanked me for it.  Her seeming reluctance to spank me for disrespect while doing so for drinking seems backwards -- the former goes unpunished even though she is too often the subject of the bad behavior, while the latter frequently earns a spanking even though me staying up late and feeling like crap the next day really has very little direct impact on her.

 

 

We talked about it a little last night, and I told her that I thought it was a problem that we keep talking 

about her spanking more for disrespect, but it never really seems to happen.  She recognizes the problem, and she says that sometimes she just can’t decide whether a given instance of snark or attitude really rises to the level of deserving a spanking.  We talked about the fact that it really shouldn’t matter whether I think it’s “fair” in a given instance.  If it was enough to make her feel mad or hurt, then she should spank first and talk about fairness later, if at all. As we’ve talked about before, for me there is something stirring about her deciding whether any specific spanking is fair, me having nothing to say about, and if she gets it “wrong,” well, too bad for my ass.

 

For me, this also kind of gets wrapped up in the talk about openness.  I really don’t know whether I act disrespectfully because that’s who I really am, or is that aggressive personality something overlays something deeper and more genuine.  If she really decided to get to the root of the problem through some combination of very consistent discipline, along with more open shows of authority that emphasized my place in the pecking order, would that chip away at some of the haughtiness and allow more humility to come to the surface?  I feel like there is a lot of truth for me in the combination of Alan and ZM’s comments, i.e. and that being more openly subject to her authority and discipline would be humbling in a way that would be both morbidly fascinating and also really a genuine and positive growth experience. And, as Danielle said, it certainly would make the dynamic seem more real if she were more open about it.

 

There may or may not be an actual topic in any of the above, but feel free to weigh in on anything that resonates with you about thinks like disrespect, “unfair” discipline, open shows of authority, road trips or camper vans. 

 

I hope you have a great week.


32 comments:

  1. OUCH! That bathbrush must have felt as wicked as it looks ! Curious if it was an impulse buy or was Anne searching for a new implement like this?

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    1. I think she was actively looking. We already had a bath brush, but she didn't like the back of it, thinking it was too rough. She had been using a hairbrush recently but wanted something with a longer handle.

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    2. We have a very heavy bathbrush from DM (a German drugstore chain) several years ago. They no longer stock this model. It really is a piece of art. The handle is more sleek than other bathbrushes I have seen, with kind of a sculpted almost aerodynamic roundish shape with no edges in sight. The whole thing is heavy, but the head carries most of the weight.

      When I bought it, the face of it was very rounded, which combined with the high weight caused immediate bruising and rapid skin failure. The one good thing about it was that it didn't nearly as much noise as if it had a flatter face. I took a sander to the face of it, removing some material and making it somewhat less convex, though it is still very heavy and quite convex. It was not that it couldn't have benefitted from more material removal, but rather that the wood that it is made from is like the hardest hardwood I have ever seen, and you could sand it and sand it (with an electric sander) and it was barely removing any material!

      Anyway, that brush is very painful, and it doesn't matter when it is used in a spanking, whether at the beginning or at the end, after I am already mostly numb, every stroke is fully felt and very painful. And as far as I can tell, even if she continues long and hard with that brush, numbness never really sets in, or is simply unable to blunt the pain very much.

      Thankfully, she doesn't use it often is all I can say.

      -ZM

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  2. I am in agreement with the above posters on the evilness of the bath brush. Commenting on the three titled topics of this weeks post from Dan.

    On Disrespect. That is a big no no here and I imagine in most all DD relationships. If I commit the rare offense of disrespect and realize it, I practically assume position for the discipline which is always swift and harsh. I would have thought Anne would have directed Dan to pull the car off the road and spank him.
    On unfair punishments...never a factor here. At the onset, during agreement drafting time, it was agreed that she would have uncontested control over discipline. When she determines discipline is warranted there is no debate. Whether I feel it is unfair or not is not discussed. I must accept her punishment without question.
    On openness.... our FLR is private and we do not broadcast it, however if someone 'discovers' it, we do not hide our lifestyle. Some of our family and friends know about our DD and some do not. I recall a group of ladies discussing something one of their husbands did and how they felt about it. Each seemed to have their own way of dealing with an issue like that. One finally asked my partner what would happed if had done something like that. Her answer was short and ended the conversation. She said "He would be spanked". I am a spanked male living in a female-led relationship and not ashamed of it.

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    1. "I would have thought Anne would have directed Dan to pull the car off the road and spank him." It wasn't really an option. Neither of us brought any implements on this trip.

      "At the onset, during agreement drafting time, it was agreed that she would have uncontested control over discipline." We more or less agreed discipline at her discretion too, but she really has never used it for things like disrespect that involve a judgment call on her end as to whether it was "deserved."

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    2. We too have the same agreement, but like Dan, my wife seems hesitant to punish for things that are not very clear-cut. She was super consistent with doing check-ins and wouldn't hesitate to discipline me for missing clearly defined targets, but when it requires judgement about whether something is punishment worthy or not, she seems to tend to be pretty conservative.

      "I recall a group of ladies discussing something one of their husbands did and how they felt about it. Each seemed to have their own way of dealing with an issue like that. One finally asked my partner what would happed if had done something like that. Her answer was short and ended the conversation. She said "He would be spanked." - While this has never happened to me, this is probably the most easy way I could see for my wife to tell others. Maybe it would be a group of friends, maybe one friend. And they could know she was serious and ask more about it or they could laugh about and go away wondering if she was serious or just joking.

      -ZM

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  3. We have exactly the same problem. Mrs. Lion has no issue blistering my butt for missing a chore. Even though we have discussed it endlessly, she doesn't punish me for disrespectful behavior. She says she can't decide if what I did was really all my fault.

    We've instituted "just because" spankings. The idea was to remind me what happens if I displease her. Also, it was an easy opportunity to "rebrand" a given spanking as punishment for disrespect. My reasoning is that if she knows she is going to beat me anyway, it would be easy to dedicate the spanking to disrespecting her.So far it hasn't worked.

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    1. "We have exactly the same problem. Mrs. Lion has no issue blistering my butt for missing a chore. Even though we have discussed it endlessly, she doesn't punish me for disrespectful behavior. She says she can't decide if what I did was really all my fault." Yep, it does sound like exactly our issue.

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  4. If I ever truely disrespect Mrs GLM then it's the divorce courts I'd to dragged to not over her knee. Cheers GLM.

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    1. Probably a good policy on her end, though we've been near the under end of that spectrum.

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  5. Disrespect (often presenting as sarcasm or moodiness) is always the main reason I'm punished. The thought of punishing for chores or anything else has been discussed but is not of any interest to her. Disrespect is of keen interest and clearly I cannot restrain myself from being a smarty pants based on the number of punishments I have received for this aspect of my behavior over the years! In addition, almost anytime we go out or go away the thought and all too often the action of 'reigning me in' will be clear in her mind. She feels that I can too easily get out of (her) control when we are away from home or with friends. I will generally try to keep a low profile and be extra polite during those 'high risk' times. It certainly adds a 'frisson' to the atmosphere knowing as I do that she is thinking about giving me a good hiding and that it won't take much at all to turn that thought into painful action. She likes that feeling of re-balance afterwards and the fact that I will have a physical reminder of her taking action as we travel or socialize. We have been on the verge of walking out the door (late as usual) when she has made the decision that I need a good taste of the strap before we go anywhere. It is not just about putting me in my place but the elevating of her sense of power that will often provoke her into punitive action and despite the pain, I do enjoy that satisfied look that I often see on her post beating face...!

    Often she will keep a mental record through the week on minor respect issues and will declare that a 'reset' is needed based on a sort of accumulation of what I may think are trivial points but she will see as me chipping away at her authority. These are frequently the most 'clinical' and severe punishments but in a surprisingly good humored, adult atmosphere. We will often discuss our different perceptions of whether the punishment is necessary, with her view prevailing 95% of the time and her adding some punishment time because I had the poor sense to question her judgement...! And yes, she will lecture me throughout whilst checking that I clearly am clearly understanding her reasons and what needs to improve.

    On your other point, Dan, we have started to use a camper vehicle and although she insists that I pack her relatively silent cane, it has been threatened but not actually used yet whilst we are parked on-site. Aside from my general aversion to that particular implement, I am in two minds about the thought of being at the receiving end of a caning whilst being in close proximity to other campers, who would only be protected from the sounds of chastisement by thin metal walls. Should it occur I may feel obliged to report ... TB

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    1. I am afraid that in the camper situation you describe, the cane might be quiet enough, but I may not be!

      -ZM

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    2. "Often she will keep a mental record through the week on minor respect issues and will declare that a 'reset' is needed based on a sort of accumulation of what I may think are trivial points but she will see as me chipping away at her authority." For whatever reason, this is a point my wife has just never gotten to. She seems to forget incidents pretty quickly.

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    3. For things that are tracked, like when we doing our long-term "boot camp" where we keep a written log and weekly check-ins, my wife doesn't hesitate to discipline me. She is very matter-of-fact about it with little emotion, and it is just action happened, so now the consequences follow.

      Or bigger things that happen that cause a fair amount of anger, my wife can just say I will be punished, and then it is like she puts all her feelings about it in a box and puts it on a shelf, and later, when she goes to punish me, it is like she re-opens that box and all the feelings are just as fresh as when it happened. However, even in these cases where a fair amount of emotion is involved, if the punishment doesn't happen for very long, it probably never will.

      On smaller random things that might irritate her, once the moment passes, we have usually already talked about it enough and it just is forgotten.

      -ZM

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  6. The way I see it, a presumptive spanking is just one that happens before feedback instead of after. The first spanking happens with no feedback first. The second happens after the feedback from the first presumptive spanking. If the wife spanks presumptively that just means each spanking has one fewer piece of feedback, e.g. the 20th spanking has feedback from 19 situations instead of 20 situations. In a long-term relationship, eventually, isn’t that good enough? Especially when there are all these other benefits to the wife calling it as she sees it and spanking closer to when the problem happens?

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    1. Your last sentence reflects something I'm fine with, but my wife seems to wrestle with, i.e. she should just call it as she sees it.

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  7. Hi Dan,
    Welcome back! I will comment on the fairness aspect here, and then write my thoughts about disrespect, openness, and how it all ties together in a separate post.

    I looked into the vanlife thing. I hadn’t kept up with things enough to know anything about it. It seems like a throwback to the 70’s, but some of those vans are really cool! Also, I feel your pain about product availability, and not just because I am a fellow dirt biker. One of the least understood consequences of COVID is the disruption of global supply chains and the ripple effect it has since most everything is now interconnected. Supply chains are global, just-in-time, and fine tuned for relatively steady-state flow, so they simply do not gracefully handle being stopped or interrupted. I think the lack of products on shelves that we have seen so far - other than maybe the ridiculous shortages due to panic buying that we saw at the beginning of COVID - is not as bad as we will see going forward, as stockpiled inventories that existed on many items are depleted. Then we will see just how fragile the system really is. Of course, I would prefer being wrong on that.

    Now on to fairness: “...she says that sometimes she just can’t decide whether a given instance of snark or attitude really rises to the level of deserving a spanking.” - This is a common problem with most offenses, not only disrespect or attitude. Few of the things I do merit a spanking if they are taken individually, but the truth is most things are parts of patterns. Is it fair if I get an expensive speeding ticket for going 10 miles over the speed limit? What harm did it do, since nobody was hurt? But a ticket needs to be painful enough to get my attention, and even if it seems unfair for that individual infraction, it seems a little more fair when I consider that I speed every time I get in the car, but only get caught once for every thousands of times I speed… And is this any different than it was back in school? When a kid was sent to the office, they usually weren’t being paddled for making a single sassy remark to the teacher (even if that is what triggered them being sent) but rather for a pattern of disrespectful or disruptive behavior. So, if my wife sees a pattern, it is certainly fair for her to mete out a harsh punishment for a minor infraction, considering all the times that she doesn’t punish me. And as I have said before, there really aren’t any “little things” anyway, since even - or perhaps especially - the small things can add up and destroy a relationship.

    “We talked about the fact that it really shouldn’t matter whether I think it’s ‘fair’ in a given instance. If it was enough to make her feel mad or hurt, then she should spank first and talk about fairness later, if at all.” - Exactly right. Perception is reality, and if my attitude is causing her to feel bad, I probably crossed a line. Is the line in the right place? Who knows? But in the end I love her and want to always make her feel good, not bad, and to do that I need to adjust to accommodate her feelings.

    “As we’ve talked about before, for me there is something stirring about her deciding whether any specific spanking is fair, me having nothing to say about, and if she gets it ‘wrong,’ well, too bad for my ass.” - I agree, but this is a tough one. As anyone who has actually done real DD can attest, it is entirely different being punished for something real than just being spanked “just because” or as part of a game. At any time she can spank me because she feels like it or as play for some clearly made-up reason, but once she makes it about something real, the reason suddenly needs to be correct or it just feels like a huge injustice. But in the end, I try to be pragmatic about it; If she is judge, jury, and executioner, it is inevitable that sometimes she is going to make a mistake. So I just figure it comes with the territory, and overall the risk of it happening occasionally is worth it if that is what it takes for the authority to feel a little more real and imposed.

    -ZM

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    1. ZM wrote: “We talked about the fact that it really shouldn’t matter whether I think it’s ‘fair’ in a given instance. If it was enough to make her feel mad or hurt, then she should spank first and talk about fairness later, if at all.” - Exactly right.

      “We have talked on the forum at many points about “fairness”. Both women who have had authority over me have wrestled with it, sometimes to the detriment of establishing effective discipline. The former girlfriend who introduced me to spanking struggled most with it. She was very comfortable administering a spanking and very effective doing so, but it had to be for real reasons and “fair”, meaning to her, that I really deserved to be punished and there was no ambiguity about that.

      This led us inevitably to consistency problems. When we talked about it, she recognized the problem but didn’t want to make a mistake ( punish unfairly) I actually think this is a very attractive quality for any disciplinarian and it just made me trust her more deeply because of it. But I finally told her she couldn’t really “make a mistake” administering a spanking because to me getting spanked was (and still is) an expression of love and caring. The former girlfriend actually gave me the idea for telling her this, when before a spanking I begged her not to use a certain brush that I really feared. She just looked at me quizzically and said something like “Alan, I wouldn’t spank you if I didn’t love you”.
      That just stopped me cold but it made me realize how much an adult spanking is an expression of love and caring. Explaining this to her and that I felt she could not really make a mistake spanking me seemed to free her mind about the fairness issue (I discussed a version of the same with my wife much later but it was something she already understood).

      I understand that telling a disciplinarian that they can’t make a mistake is not something to do outside an established intimate relationship. But when a women obsesses about fairness, she is not going to abuse her authority. And with such a women, administering a spanking when she decides it’s needed, is very seldom going to be unfair – and if you do get punished unfairly occasionally it is a small price for the benefits of loving DD
      Alan

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    2. "Few of the things I do merit a spanking if they are taken individually, but the truth is most things are parts of patterns." - Exactly. There aren't that many (if any) things that I've been spanked for that were a one-time offense, and there have been many, many instances of me getting away with things I should have gotten spanked for.

      The pandemic certainly has tested the wisdom of JIT manufacturing and attenuated global supply chains. I really do wonder whether some of the "consumer confidence" drop that was supposedly shown here for July was really just that people wanted to buy things but couldn't because everything was on back order.

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    3. "I understand that telling a disciplinarian that they can’t make a mistake is not something to do outside an established intimate relationship. But when a women obsesses about fairness, she is not going to abuse her authority. And with such a women, administering a spanking when she decides it’s needed, is very seldom going to be unfair – and if you do get punished unfairly occasionally it is a small price for the benefits of loving DD." I totally agree Alan, with the caveat that I think in most cases it would be a bit potential mistake to enter into *any* DD relationship outside an established intimate relationship. Until you've known someone a while and seen them under pressure, you have no basis for knowing whether they really can be trusted with power and whether their judgment can be trusted in most circumstances. Moreover, there are times you may in a relationship with someone you genuinely love but who really does not exercise good judgment and who you would not give that kind of authority to.

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    4. Alan, I absolutely agree with everything you wrote about fairness. As long as she is concerned about being fair enough, she is unlikely to abuse her authority and will instead most likely err on the side of caution. And even if she is occasionally wrong, who isn't?

      "She was very comfortable administering a spanking and very effective doing so, but it had to be for real reasons and 'fair', meaning to her, that I really deserved to be punished and there was no ambiguity about that." - I am pretty sure that is a huge tripping point for most disciplinary wives. I know that if I were in the role of disciplinarian, I would struggle with it too. We on the spanked end of the paddle can either reinforce this hesitation and make it worse, by questioning the fairness when she says we are to be spanked, or we can help her to overcome this by never resisting, never questioning fairness (especially before a spanking), and for thanking her for recognizing the problem and caring enough to discipline us.

      And Dan, I agree that it would usually be a mistake to enter into any DD relationship outside an existing close relationship where you really know the person.

      -ZM

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  8. Now on to disrespect, which can take many forms. I am probably guilty of some of these at times.

    - Divided attention. I have been warned repeatedly for focusing too much on my phone and not giving my full attention to others. Probably if I don’t get better at it, I will be punished at some time for it.

    - Disobeying my wife and undermining her authority. This hasn’t really applied, since she seldom tells me to do things, and when she does I don’t disobey.

    - Disregarding or ignoring people. I don’t do this intentionally, as it is rude and is clearly unacceptable. But I do ignore people unintentionally sometimes, so would not be surprised if my wife sometime decides to greatly increase my awareness.

    - Paying excessive attention to other females. Again I have been warned quite a few times, but never spanked. Mostly she makes jokes about it.

    - Making excessively sarcastic comments. My wife has punished me for sarcasm, but that was when I was being really sarcastic to our teenaged son to the point that it was crushing his spirit. She has never punished me for sarcasm towards her, but I always assumed that was just because I am so funny. :-) I have a feeling that like in Dan’s case, the lack of punishment for disrespectful comments is mostly from it not reaching the level of deserving punishment. But words are powerful, and even somewhat funny sarcastic comments can really wear on someone, hurt their feelings, or even eventually damage their self concept. So a small amount of gentle teasing is fine, but things that are either biting or just simply too much are not OK. Another red line is anything that is excessively harsh on others, especially if it makes my wife feel uncomfortable, so if I am being obnoxiously sarcastic in public for example.

    Regardless of how it manifests, disrespect is usually a problem of ego. Either someone has excessive ego and flaunts it to be the center of attention, or someone feels inferior in a situation, so they overcompensate with false bravado, or finally someone thinks so highly of themselves that they merely disregard everyone else. While some of it could be a fundamental part of some people’s make-up, much of it is a learned behavior and if it is excessive to the point it is hurting feelings, it needs to be reined in.

    I think that openness ties in perfectly for dealing with disrespect which comes from excessive ego. If too much ego is the problem, then the cure would not just be a bruised bottom, but also a bruised ego. I am not talking about being brutally humiliated, but rather being taken down a peg or two. And while this can happen in private, it would be much more effective if accompanied by the embarrassment of others knowing that it was happening, especially in those cases where the victims of the disrespect are the ones who hear about the consequences. It would be very impactful if others knew that my wife punishes me for things between us, but I can’t even imagine what it would feel like if I was being my usual loud, cocky self and suddenly my wife announced to the very people I was showing off to that I am going to be spanked.

    I really liked the insight about the principal’s office. Since it never happened to me, I always thought about the feelings that one would have while walking to the office, knowing what was coming. I never thought about the return trip: “If anything, the walk back from that office was worse than the walk to it, because on the return trip everyone knew what had happened to you, and you had to face their knowing stares.“

    “Those teachers and principals back then knew how to concoct punishments that really stuck, didn’t they?” - Yep! I think I am stuck on the whole “others knowing or witnessing” because I can see just how it would change the whole experience and make it not only much more poignant, but also how it would make both the punishment and the underlying authority so much more real, as both Danielle and Alan talked about.

    -ZM

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    1. '- Disobeying my wife and undermining her authority. This hasn’t really applied, since she seldom tells me to do things, and when she does I don’t disobey." That was part of what got me spanked on Saturday. She did tell me to go to bed at a reasonable hour, and I just ignored it once she went to bed herself.

      The teasing thing is a big issue for me, and one where I really might cross a line without knowing it. It's just a pretty core part of the way I communicate with people I like, particularly with our kids when they were growing up. And, because it is directed at people I like, it's never *meant* to be hurtful. But, I've come to learn over time that people read a seriousness and intensity into my personality that I often don't perceive, i.e. they take things I say a lot more seriously and a lot more literally than I ever intended.

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    2. Wow, Dan, that last paragraph could have been written by me without changing a word. That is exactly me. I too only playfully pick on the people that I like, and I am never intending to be mean or hurtful, since I like the people! But sometimes I go too far with it and sometimes people take things more seriously than I intend for them to be taken. Either of these cases can result in hurt feelings, and it is something that I am trying to become much more mindful about and have been thinking a lot about recently. I am wanting my wife to guide me a bit on this, since she can see things from a different perspective and seems to perceive pretty well how others are responding to things. Hopefully, I will get better at this, while still keeping my fun, playful personality.

      -ZM

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    3. Spanking for disrespectful phone obsession is a wonderful idea. We’ll be implementing it soon after our next discussion.

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  9. So Dan , now you've 'tasted all three of Anne's brushes how would you rate each one in terms of effectiveness ?
    Anne feel free to give a rating too if you read this!

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    1. The two bath brushes were more or less interchangeable. Regarding the relative impact of the bath brush versus the hairbrush, it's kind of a mixed bag. I actually thought the hairbrush hurt more in the moment, probably because of the smaller, more concentrated surface area. I also think there was a little less numbing with the hairbrush. But, most of the soreness from the hairbrush was gone in a couple of days. With her bath brush, I was *very* sore for four or five days, and could still feel it a week later.

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  10. On the subject of the evil, wicked bath brush, I've shared here before about the "Vermont Brush" that my wife still uses on a regular basis - but will revisit the story since this is one of the topics of the week.

    Back in our early days in the DWC lifestyle (almost 20 years ago), the so-called "Vermont Brush" was popular in the dd spanking community and was frequently mentioned on the forums of the day. It was called "Vermont" because it was sold by the "Vermont Country Store" (still in business - and they were an online business even then). I wonder if the folks there at the Vermont Country Store ever wondered why they sold so many of those brushes by mail order. Eventually, the item was discontinued by the manufacturer (I read somewhere along the way). But, my wife had me order one well before they were discontinued and it has been her primary spanking implement ever since. Although we have a good number of paddles, implements, straps, etc in the toy box - the brush can be left out in plain view for immediate and convenient use. And it is *so* effective.

    The brush was imported from Germany so it may have come from the same company that the brush Bad_boy talked about above. The shape is somewhat similar to the one Dan pictured above.

    I found this blog post (with pictures) on it for any who may be interested -

    http://cornertimeconfidential.blogspot.com/2014/08/it-really-hits-spot (dot) html

    --al

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    1. Thanks al. Hope you're doing well.

      I have a feeling that the makers of implements like the Vermont Country Store brush are very well aware of the kink community's interest. We have a bath brush from The Body Shop, and I've seen comments relating to that are fairly clear about how it is being put to use.

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  11. I will follow up on that last post - the blog post I referenced is M/M, by the way (but to each his own). There was an interesting blurb at the end:

    "There is an urban myth that the store (Vermont Country Store) actually existed as a real shop not just an online marketplace, and at the merchandising display where the brushes were kept, they were sold under a sign that read: “It really it's the spot!’”

    So - in addition to being a long time online merchant, the Vermont Country Store *is* a real physical location store - and is still in business. So - makes one wonder if there was any truth to that urban legend (the quote actually rattled a memory of a rumor that floated around at the time - that one of the owners was a spank-o, which would certainly coincide with that urban myth).

    I also appreciated the comment above about the cane for the camper. While my wife very much enjoys the sound of a paddle on a bare behind - she most certainly will use a switch (either an actual switch from a tree or the small plastic "mini-cane" that the DWC used to sell)when noise is an issue. The mini-cane (along with the bath brush) always gets packed for vacation trips - and I have been "switched" with it numerous times in guest rooms at relatives homes (and motel rooms when it seemed the noise of the brush might be an issue).

    I tried to Google a pic of the DWC mini-cane but nothing came up - but I'm sure Tomy will remember it! It is about 2 feet long with a black plastic handle and a white plastic rod. And definitely effective!

    Hope everyone is doing well! --al

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  12. P.S. I think it’s hilarious that the speech bubble in the greyscale photo is pointing to the guy instead of the woman spanking him. It’s hard to take his words seriously right now!

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  13. Hazel's mother and two younger sisters are aware of our relationship dynamic and pretty much have been from the beginning. They were weary of her and I dating since I was, as previously mentioned, quite the character back then. She told them that she had no intention of putting up with it and that there would be major changes if we decided to keep seeing each other. They knew her taking charge sort of personality and that she meant it, so their worries started to subside after that. Five years later and they are fully aware of the whole deal. Her being in charge, setting rules for me to follow, punishing me for infractions, etc….

    And within the last year or so, her 11 year old niece knows as well. Obviously, she wasn't told her about the spanking or certain other aspects of it, but she still has the general gist of it because of one incident. Her sister and daughter came by one Saturday to visit briefly while out running errands. I was in the kitchen washing the breakfast dishes. My niece was quiet and obviously mad about something. Once Hazel asked what was bothering her, her sister said she had just gotten grounded for a couple of weeks. The same had happened to me a few days prior (only it was for a month in my case), and I felt my ears burn at the idea Hazel might spill the beans. Sure enough, she said something to her niece along the lines of "If it makes you feel any better, Trent is grounded, too.". I was so embarrassed, and of course this led to a shocked reaction by my niece along with several questions. Grown ups can get grounded, too? Who grounded him? Why is he grounded and what did he do, etc, , , , My wife explained to her (Again, leaving out any and all information pertaining to her spanking me and the other more adult aspects) that she was the boss in our marriage and the one who made the rules. She went on to explain that I got punished when I broke those rules, and that in this case I was grounded for not following a bunch of them (For the record, the actual reason in that case was slacking on chores for a few weeks and then getting black out drunk without her permission).

    This wasn't the end of my niece's confusion as she went on to add a few more questions. All wives can punish their husbands? The girl is always in charge? Etc, , , , My wife explained that all couples are different depending on who they are. Some keep it equal, some the woman is in charge, and some the man is in charge. She seemed to get a better grasp of it at that point, but I was so embarrassed that I kept my eyes on the dishes the whole time. They went to leave, my niece gave my wife a hug, and her mother told her to come give me a hug. She did and told me she was sorry I got grounded. I responded that it was okay and that I had it coming. I told her I was sorry she was grounded as well. She smiled and they left.

    A couple of weeks later, my wife was told by her sister that my niece's attitude had improved tenfold and that she had stood up to some boys at her school who had been bullying her. I was initially embarrassed about the kid finding out about the whole thing, but after hearing this I was actually glad of it. It ended up helping her feel better about her own circumstances and encouraged her to stand up for herself. My wife and I also agreed that empowering the next generation of women is an extremely important thing. My wife provided her with an example of women being capable of strength and leadership. I'm happy that was achieved in this instance regardless of my personal feelings at the time.

    - Trent

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