Sunday, April 11, 2021

The Club - Meeting 372 - Coaching & Mentoring

“A failure establishes only this, that our determination to succeed was not strong enough.” - Christian Nestell Bovee

 

Hello all.  Welcome back to The Disciplinary Couples Club.  Our weekly gathering of men and women who are in, or interested in being in, Domestic Discipline relationships, mainly of the Female/male variety.  I hope you had a good week.

 

For us, it’s been an odd couple of weeks.  Most of our family is now fully or partially vaccinated, which has enabled us to start getting together more with friends and family, particularly with some more vulnerable family members who had been living in a pretty strict, self-imposed lockdown for a year. We got together with some of them a week ago, and it was really nice.  Unfortunately, we’ve also been dealing with some other family members in a context that is not nice. In fact, it’s incredibly irritating, and it’s happening in a context that has me thinking about this lifestyle that brings us all together for these weekly discussions, and specifically about consequences and lack thereof.  We have a branch of the family whose overarching personal characteristic is pervasive irresponsibility.  For years I have watched as one or more of them do some really dumb shit, then another of the group will step in to make sure the party doing the dumb shit doesn’t ever bear any real consequences or that the consequences are mitigated to such an extent that there is never a lesson learned that might prevent similarly stupid acts in the future.  Worse, now we are finding ourselves dragged into it, as one of them who we are about has done something very irresponsible that may involve very serious long-term consequences – consequences that we might be able to help with but, in doing so we wouldn’t we be enabling the bad behavior by insulating this person from the natural and foreseeable consequences?  It really is maddening.

 

I’ve also been thinking about discipline and consequences in another real world context – dog training.  As I reported a couple of weeks ago, we have a puppy that we acquired near the beginning of the Covid lockdown.  Because of that timing, opportunities to socialize him outside the family were very limited at a time when it was pretty critical.  I am now trying to make up for that lost opportunity, and it is exponentially harder now that some antisocial and undisciplined tendencies have had an opportunity to take root.  He is actually getting quite a bit better, but it is taking exhaustive efforts to address the bad behavior sternly and reward alternative good behavior and to do that every single time a negative behavior is displayed or overcome.  It is very clear after a few weeks of concentrated effort that consistency with both negative and positive reinforcement is critical to getting lasting results.

 

Finally, I was thinking about these issues this week in the context of my career transition, which is getting very close.  In the past, I’ve placed a lot of faith in writing down ambitious yearly goals.  And, on the financial side at least, I’ve often hit them, and I’m not sure I would have had I not put laid down some of those markers so expressly.   

 

My performance on non-financial goals was always more spotty, however, with surges of progress that were often by setbacks caused in many cases by lack of attention or insufficient diligence or effort, though sometimes circumstances just intervened. During the last couple of years, even the financial goals seemed to slip a bit, possibly because I lost interest to some extent and stopped focusing on them as much.  I was thinking about this as I was pondering some possibilities for future careers, one of which is success coaching.  Although I’ve never been fully satisfied with my own efforts, on paper I’ve accomplished a lot especially if one looks at where I ended up in relation to where I began.  I’ve served in some important positions in varied parts of my profession, getting a firsthand view of different business models and being able to observe some really first-class leaders and also some not-so-great leaders.  The combination of training and experiences could make me a good trainer/coach/mentor for people at various stages of their career in my profession, especially those who are just starting out or are trying to get to the next level.

 

Yet, I’m often frustrated with my inability to hit my own goals. For example, I seem to be one of the few people who actually lost weight during the pandemic lockdown.  I actually lost quite a bit.  Yet, I can’t quite get rid of that last 5 or 10 lbs. of fat would take me to a fairly impressive bodyfat percentage for someone of my age. Similarly, I’ve had some plans to take up writing in my semi-retirement, and I’ve had some concrete book ideas that I think could actually be interesting to develop.  Yet, when I set a modest goal of writing even a page or two a day, I never seem to be able to keep it up.  In these personal development areas, it’s not like I’m slacking, but I’m also not truly performing at a level that is likely to bring about the results I say I want.  Truth be told, I feel like a lot of my career was like that.  I accomplished a lot, but what could I have done if my effort had been more focused and consistent. What if I had been giving it 100% instead of 70 or 80? 

 

And, what might have happened had I had a coach—perhaps one carrying a big paddle—who might have helped me focus that attention? Anne and I talked from time about her fulfilling that role, but it never quite gelled, probably because she was in a different field and didn’t really have enough visibility into where I was succeeding and, importantly, where I was not.  She also had her own career to worry about.  But, these thoughts about what it would be like to have someone who is laser-focused on keep you on task and driving you to greater levels of performance is intriguing.  It’s why I continue to be so fascinated by the NXIVM cult thing.  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/magazine/sex-cult-empowerment-nxivm-keith-raniere.html.  Setting aside the more salacious elements, at bottom it seems to have attracted a set of performance-minded adherents who thought they could benefit from a discipline focused on escalating consequences in service of meeting their personalized goals.  

 

 

The Domestic Discipline that most of us practice seems to focus primarily on consequences for “bad” behavior, often behavior that is hurtful or annoying to our spouse or to others.  But, what about more goal-oriented behavioral modification? To what extent have you used DD, if at all, to help increase or better your own performance in some aspect of life? There could be any number of such goals or desires, including”

 

  • losing weight 
  • running a 10k or competing in a triathalon
  • starting a business or side hustle 
  • meeting a sales or business development goal at work 
  • getting a promotion 
  • putting a personal budget in place and sticking to it 
  • writing a novel
  • learning a musical instrument


Have you ever been spanked as a consequence of failing to meet some such goal or as part of a plan to give you an incentive for meeting one?  If so, give us the details. What was the goal?  How did she go about making sure you met it?  Was the focus on a particular end point, e.g. "losing 10 pouds" or on the process for getting there, such as "don't eat sugar and go to the gym four days a week"?  In other words, to what extent was it a requirement that you actually hit the goal?  What if you put in the time and effort but still failed?  If you haven't had this experience, is there some goal you’d like to hit or positive change you’d like your spouse’s help in achieving? Have you asked for her help? 


For the wives, are there areas in which you have provided your husband with some disciplinary “motivation” to achieve a goal or make a change that he was struggling with?  Is that something you would do if you thought he needed it or if he asked?  Or, does that feel like an imposition or something that takes your Disciplinary Wife role too far or into territory you are not interested in taking it into? Could there also be goals that you want him to achieve but for which he seems to lack sufficient motivation? Have you talked to him about starting to spank him or apply other consequences if he doesn't step up? 

I hope you all have a good week.

56 comments:

  1. Hi Dan,
    Interesting topic that invites some reflection. I also do goal setting and have for many years. Like you, my success is greater in some goal areas than others but overall I can look to many areas where I have accomplished things because they were focused on as goals. And it’s accurate to say I have a lot of self-discipline in those areas. Yet that part of my life and my life as a disciplined husband feel very separate. An anecdote from my time with a former girlfriend sort of sums up the dichotomy. We probably had several versions of the same conversation but they went like this “Alan you overachieve and are very self-disciplined about (any of a list of accomplishments and career success. But I have to spank you like a naughty little boy for (a long list of personal behavior and relationship behavior). How can you be so disciplined in some areas and not in these (areas she spanks for) “It was a good question and one I have thought about without any profound insights. I do realize that the areas where I show self-discipline are in the public and professional areas while my bad behavior has always been more in my private life or in intimate relationships. That same girlfriend often told me that she could not be in a relationship with me without the authority to discipline and it’s been true that my relationships that lacked domestic discipline were not successful long term. I am not sure I am addressing your central theme re using spanking or DD to tackle “positive goals”. I can see how a goal such as weight loss or acquiring a new skill could be tackled with DD, but for me I don’t need DD for those kinds of behavior.
    Alan

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    1. It is interesting how context-dependent our ability to be self-disciplined is, isn't it?

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    2. I don't think it's unusual to be well-behaved in public and professional situations and to then misbehave in private and intimate ones. We are putting on our best face out in public, whereas at home we let our hair down and let our emotions come to the fore. Unfortunately, we sometimes treat our loved ones the worst because we assume they will still love us and not reject us like an acquaintance might. Then again, our loved ones have the most authority to hold us accountable, so maybe it sort of works out. Then there's the whole kinky side. Some of you bad boys may be subconsciously misbehaving on purpose.
      Liz

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    3. Liz,
      “I don't think it's unusual to be well-behaved in public and professional situations and to then misbehave in private and intimate ones.”

      OK. You could be fairly describing me, much more at the beginning of our DD than now -- but accurate enough. But I was never the Jekyll and Hyde type of person implied. Intimate, sexual relationships are (to me) much more complex and nuanced than public personas. At the beginning of my relationship with my wife I did not have the tools or skills that she did with the responsibilities and expectations of a full healthy mature relationship. In effect she managed my behavior with DD, bringing about many positive changes and teaching me a lot about myself. As to the kinky side, Danielle has nailed that by linking her power over Wayne to eroticizing her authority. Because of my wife’s background that happened for us very early and is definitely keeps the flame lighted
      Alan

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    4. "Unfortunately, we sometimes treat our loved ones the worst because we assume they will still love us and not reject us like an acquaintance might." Very, very true, Liz. I also suspect it's related to how we evaluate the likelihood that consequences will be imposed and their severity. In most cases, we probably know that there is some line we could cross at work that would result in firing, while we assume that short of some really bad behavior our family will forgive us or at least tolerate us. So, with outsiders like bosses at work, consequences are both more likely and possibly more severe.

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  2. This is Art. For Liz and me, DD is definitely used as an incentive for meeting a positive goal. The goal is to reduce my arrogance, both at home and at work. I am paddled when I display arrogance, and I also am paddled weekly as a reminder (incentive) to not act arrogantly.

    As regular readers know, my wife took the kids and left after I was extremely rude to one of our children. It was the last straw for her. It shook me to my core, and I knew I needed to find some way for her to wield her authority other than leaving. Spanking was very prevalent in her family, so that seemed like a good option. I presented it to her, and she readily accepted.

    The way our DD works is that we typically wait until Monday mornings after the kids have gotten on the school bus. Both of us keep track of incidents that may have occurred at home, and I keep track of incidents at work that I report to her. She then punishes me at her discretion for these incidents. In addition, I am paddled to inspire me to behave in the week going forward.

    There is no "end point" to the goal of reducing my arrogance. Neither one of us believes it will ever be eliminated completely, so we both see the need for the paddle on an indefinite basis. So I guess you could say we are focusing on the process rather than a certain end goal. However, I know that if she wasn't seeing improvement then we would have a big problem in our marriage again.

    It does feel to me like there have been weeks where I have "put in the time and effort but still failed." However, Liz would say that I make a choice each and every time I act arrogantly. To me it doesn't seem like a choice. It falls out of my mouth quite naturally. However, I now know that it will not happen without consequences that are quite painful. That threat of being paddled does serve as a deterrent. I often am able to catch myself - sometimes with my mouth half open to speak. A little voice says, "Do you really want to say that? Is it worth the paddling you are going to get for it?" But sometimes that voice doesn't speak quickly enough, or I ignore it.

    Liz does make sure that each incident of arrogance is punished separately, and then the future reminder is applied. I find this helpful. If it all ran together it would not be as effective. She is a very good lecturer, and as she paddles she lectures about the incident for which I am being punished. When she decides I have been punished appropriately, she moves on to the next incident. This means that some sessions over the desk are quite lengthy and my bottom is heavily bruised. Other times there are no specific incidents of arrogance, and I only get the reminder paddling, which usually is between 20-40 swats.

    Occasionally an incident is so offensive that she does not want to wait until Monday. Again, the best time is in the morning after the kids have left for school and before I have to leave for work. However, a couple of times I have earned immediate punishment in the evening, in which case we "go for a walk" on our property. We have a shed and a tractor that can shield us from the house, and I have made a second paddle which is hidden on the property. I find these incidents extremely embarrassing because I imagine that the kids or the neighbors will see or hear. After one of these incidents I am usually able to curb my arrogance for weeks, so I guess the embarrassment is effective.

    I appreciate that my wife holds me accountable and is helping me work on a goal that I did not know how to work on by myself.
    Art

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    1. Anyone who has been on this blog a while knows sheds are a "thing" for me. So, thanks for that reference.

      "It does feel to me like there have been weeks where I have "put in the time and effort but still failed." However, Liz would say that I make a choice each and every time I act arrogantly. To me it doesn't seem like a choice." To me, it really depends on the behavior at issue. For household things like not cleaning a rice cleaner (I've gotten spanked a few times for forgetting that), one spanking seems to result in a long period of compliance. I will remember the spanking every time we have rice with a meal. On the other hand, there is drinking too much. After one or two drinks, the prospect of a spanking just vanishes from my mind. A few things, like being courteous to her and the kids are kind of in between. Sometimes something just pops out, but I do think about such things more than I used to

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    2. Isn't this another dimension of "how context-dependent our ability to be self-disciplined is,". Or is there something else operating here?
      Alan

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    3. I think part of it is how ingrained the behavior is, either through genetics or environment. Art grew up with a mouthy Dad, and Art is just naturally that way - he says what comes to mind, and often it is funny but also sarcastic and judgmental. He needs repeated painful reminders to not talk that way. I think if I spanked him once for the rice cooker, he would never do it again. But things like drinking are much more ingrained into our personality, so they are much more difficult to curb.
      Liz

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    4. Liz wrote:” things … much more ingrained into our personality … are much more difficult to curb.” I agree strongly as probably anyone involved in a DD relationship quickly fins out. This is where consistent “external motivation” combined with a strong desire to overcome the behavior, perhaps splashed with some psychology makes the difference. Some folks on this blog (and others) note correctly how hard any addicted behavior is to change implying or actually stating that physical discipline alone won’t do it. They are right but if one adds the buy in from the disciplined partner and his internalization of the goal, some apparently addicted behaviors can be defeated. We have extinguished two and alcohol could be next although it hasn’t happened yet. No couple can solve every problem with spanking, but as poster after poster has testified over the past months, a lot of problems really can be “spanked away” or sharply reduced.
      Alan

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    5. Dan,
      We haven't gone in the shed because 1, it's full of stuff and we would probably have to move stuff for her to get a good swing. 2, It echoes in there and more people might here. and 3, There are a lot of spiders. So for us it's more behind the shed. I can park the tractor so I am between the shed and the tractor and thus hidden on two sides. Then she has me bend over and put my hands on the tractor frame just like I do the desk. I wouldn't do it if my pants were coming down, but we stay modest. Still, the idea of our kids or neighbors figuring out that I was being paddled by my wife is extremely embarrassing for me. Liz has little sympathy. "Don't misbehave like that and we won't need to take one of our little walks," she says. She has a point there.
      Art

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    6. Alan, yes, I get a little aggravated with comments regarding things DD supposedly won't work for. It's one part of a possible prescription for uprooting bad behavior. It may work better on some people and on some behaviors or on others. It may work alone, in combination with other things, or not at all.

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    7. ""Don't misbehave like that and we won't need to take one of our little walks," she says. She has a point there." Indeed she does. I definitely can see how having to take a walk to the shed, but then not even getting the privacy of that shed, could be a double incentive to behave.

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  3. Having never been in a DD relationship, I can’t answer most of these questions. Even growing up, my parents were not much into pushing me too hard, so I just found my own way into accomplishing enough of my own goals to get by. Most failures are not urgent issues. I’m not an addictive type personality, so no critical vices to curb. I’m not an ambitious business person, so I’ve had no ladder there to climb. Accomplishing more creatively beyond work has been a definite problem. Could use help organizing my time. Taking better care of my own health could have been improved. All I can say is that, I believe a coaching/mentoring relationship would have improved my life dramatically. For me the difference between doing and not doing is balanced on a thin edge. With just a little external motivation, I would have accomplished so much more, and with the added excitement and fulfillment of living under, for me, this kind of sexually charged discipline.

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    1. "For me the difference between doing and not doing is balanced on a thin edge. With just a little external motivation, I would have accomplished so much more" Same here for sure

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    2. Particularly true if that "external motivation" comes from loving female authority.

      Alan

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    3. I think external motivation is especially effective in behaviors where we have blind spots. It's hard to be self-disciplined if you don't often notice the problem. Having a spouse to point out those blind spots and hold you accountable can be very healthy. DD is just one way to enforce that accountability.
      Liz

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  4. Aunt Kay used to say that if she got me sooner I could have been a brain surgeon.

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    1. There definitely is something to be said for early, stern influences!

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    2. I truly appreciate that my parents' stern influence of spank more and yell less. I think that stern influence made me a better student and a more moral young lady. I also have a fairly calm demeanor that I think is partly a result of not being yelled at. Getting spanked by my mom with her wooden spoon happened so quickly - it was probably over in a minute (which in rapid-fire of about two per second could really light up my behind). Afterwards she would hug me and tell me I was forgiven and send me on my way to do whatever. No resentments, no lingering judgment, just a lingering sting in my rear to remind me to be good. I may have feared the wooden spoon but I never feared my mom.
      Liz

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    3. Hi Liz. The converse can be true, too. I grew up with out the sternness and boundaries, and I think it's one reason I've always had a high level of intensity and, "tenseness" if that is a word. When you grow up without boundaries, avoiding all the consequences that the real world imposes when you drift too far out of the lane is all on you. I didn't really realize it at the time, but I think growing up I was always on edge because of the lack of internal discipline.

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    4. Sorry, I meant to say because of the lack of EXTERNAL discipline.

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  5. Our DD is all about providing "disciplinary motivation to achieve a goal or make a change" that my husband was struggling with. The issue is and has always been him disrespecting me. I needed him to respect my desire to pursue my education and a career, respect me as a woman, and treat me as an equal. I had to get away from him to achieve those things. When he decided he wanted me back, he suggested that I use corporal punishment to get my points across, rather than the yelling matches we used to have.

    It has worked better than I could have imagined. The power to punish him has made him respect me. He has what I would call a healthy fear of the bath brush. Now I can just give him a warning look and he straightens right up. It's ironic to me that addressing his immaturity by punishing him like a naughty little boy has resulted in a more mature husband. But it works so I am not questioning it.

    Are there other goals that I want him to achieve but for which he seems to lack sufficient motivation? Yes. Have I talked to him about starting to spank him if he doesn't step up? Yes. One example is helping me more around the house. He had that chauvinist attitude that he did chores outside like cut the grass and fix the cars but didn't do anything inside, which is ten times as much. We discussed chores and he agreed to do certain ones. If he forgets or if he does them poorly, he gets paddled. I certainly don't think that is taking my role as Disciplinary Wife too far. I guess this could be considered expanding our DD, but in a way it's all about respect. If he makes me a promise to do a chore and then doesn't keep his promise, that is disrespectful. It's more indirect disrespect rather than making a comment about the "little woman" not needing a college degree, or some of the other directly disrespectful and outrageous things he used to say.

    I am amazed that he has not once raised a fuss when I have told him I was going to start spanking him about something new. I now know that DD is erotic for him, so it has helped that my authority has been sexualized. I am sure he doesn't want to load the dishwasher, but when I "make" him do it with the threat of a spanking, it's a turn-on for him so he then doesn't mind the chore as much. He'll load the dishwasher and then want to get me in bed. It's really quite hysterical.

    But I also find the power exchange erotic. I actually always found it erotic to be respected and treated well. I think that is erotic for most women, whereas the men I have known do not think of respect as erotic. But power is definitely a step beyond respect, and we both find that erotic, so it has been good for our sex life as well as a reduction of conflict and an increase in communication and intimacy.

    If I knew what DD was going to achieve in our marriage, I would have started spanking him on our wedding night 14 years ago.

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    1. "But power is definitely a step beyond respect, and we both find that erotic, so it has been good for our sex life as well as a reduction of conflict and an increase in communication and intimacy." That definitely has been our experience

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  6. Like you say about yourself, Dan, I think Art could use some monitoring of his work behavior. He does confess incidents of arrogance at work, but I sometimes think there is more to it than what he is saying.

    I feel this is part of my role as his disciplinary wife because:
    1. He asked me to help curb his arrogance at work as well as home.
    2. It affects our family. There is no question he has been passed over for promotions and the accompanying raises because there is some concern about how he treats co-workers, so he is kept in sales rather than sales management.

    I wish there was some solution to this, like an on-the-job spy, as several of us have fantasized about before. Or if he took me with him to his performance review! Or at least brought it home for me to read. He says he is not allowed to do that and it is kept in his personnel file. But couldn't he make me a copy?

    I know he would have no problem with me punishing him further for work behavior, because I already do. It's just a matter of how to get the whole story, rather than his possibly sanitized version of it, without someone at work figuring out what I am doing with the information.
    Liz

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  7. I think I have been doing a pretty good job of confessing my work sarcasm and arrogance, but then I do have a blind spot in this area. I wouldn't mind if Liz were a fly on the wall at work, as I tend to agree with her that my bottom would suffer but my work behavior improve. However, recruiting a "rat" for her is another thing altogether. She is somewhat friendly with one of the sales department's administrative assistants who attends almost all of our meetings. Liz has mentioned she might want to take this woman out to lunch periodically. Of course the woman would know it's a fishing expedition, but would not know what Liz would be fishing for. And certainly not how Liz plans to address what she discovers with me. It wouldn't be the first time the wife of an employee befriended a co-worker to find out what was going on - usually an affair or the fear of one or at least inappropriate flirting. No concerns there. I'm not encouraging Liz to do this, but I won't stand in her way either as long as she agrees to never bring up DD. What do others on here think? It's certainly an expansion of the disciplinary wife's role in our marriage.
    Art

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    1. Art and Liz, I support the idea and, had I ever found an appropriate "rat," I probably would have acted on it. The one person I opened up to about our DD relationship is a mutual friend who is, in fact, a former work colleague. But, we stopped working together before Anne and I got into DD. It would have been interesting had my time working with her overlapped with our DD relationship . . .

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  8. Art wrote" What do others on here think ( of seeking information about a husbands behavior from a work colleague)"?

    I find it a little creepy but from earlier remarks made both by husbands and wives, I gather my opinion may net be consensus. I am actually a very private person who maintains a hard line between my private life and the public one. But also seeking out a “rat” Isn’t something either one of us wants. From the very beginning our DD has been about my private behavior and our personal relationship only. If something carried over from work like your reflexive arrogance, it would also become a relationship issue and fair game for her to address (which she absolutely would). But beyond that she is not interested in the work area behavior and if I exhibited what Liz refers to as “blind spots”, she would let me know pretty quickly. Once my former girlfriend threatened me to come to the office and deliver a spanking if I did not agree to leave work abruptly and report to her. I felt then and still do that she meant it and I freaked out but I also left work and reported to her. But we talked later and she agreed that “public” life would be excluded from our relationship and that she had enough tools to deal with me that she didn’t need that.
    Alan

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    1. I certainly would never threaten spanking him at the office. That seems insane. Nor would I force him to leave work to come home for a spanking. I don't want to threaten his job. I want to make things better at his work by helping him reduce his arrogance there as well as at home.
      Liz

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    2. I've got a work story. Jimmy and I and several of his work buddies and their wives got together recently, and of course we split into male and female groups to talk and I brought up to the wives Jimmy's use of the word cu*t, which none of us like. We agreed that we all would work on getting our husbands to reduce or eliminate it. I told them that he told me it is in constant use at work. The girls said we probably couldn't do much about that. When the guys rejoined us I asked the other linemen if Jimmy has stopped saying the "c" word on the job. They all were hesitant, not wanting to narc on a buddy. Jimmy jumped in and said, "Hey, you guys know I've stopped saying it," and they agreed, though there was no way of knowing whether they were telling the truth or covering for him. One of the other wives told her husband she didn't want him saying the "c" word, either. He mumbled and grumbled under his breath and one of the other guys said, "She's never going to know if you say it or not - unless we tell her!" Then they all laughed. The jokester said to the wife, "And what will you do to him if he does say it? Beat his ass?" Everybody laughed. I said, "With a bath brush!" Everybody laughed again. Except one person.
      Belle

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    3. My wife did make me come home for a spanking one day, early on in our DD relationship, and sent me back with a very sore butt. The fact that I still remember it 15 years later says something.

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    4. Belle, that is pretty funny. Including that the jokester actually brought up spanking.

      I have never quite figured out what it is about the "c word" that makes it especially offensive. I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm not sure exactly why.

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    5. A cunt is a woman who has absolutely no value other than to fuck. For women it's the equivalent of nigger. Calling a man a prick could be the same thing but it isn't. It just means jerk. I looked up the derivation of cunt, which is unclear, but the earliest reference appears to be a street frequented by prostitutes - women considered to have no value other than for sex. So if you see the offensiveness of nigger, treat cunt the same.

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    6. WOW! You been schooled Dan.

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    7. Belle,
      It’s interesting that you compare nigger with cunt because one denotes gender while the other denotes race. Both, because of the context in which they have been used historically, are highly offensive to anyone not either a misogynist or a racist. Yet they point to two very separate types of bigotry virtually indigenous to American culture –discrimination against women and discrimination against non-whites. As a culture we have probably made much more progress in the last century toward confronting discrimination against women, but one has to wonder how much progress we have made against racism.
      Alan

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    8. It's interesting how culturally dependent language is even when a word comes from a common source, however. I have friends in England who pretty regularly use the "c word," and there it doesn't have nearly as harsh a connotation. While it is slang for vagina, that use is pretty much equivalent to how we would use the word "pussy," i.e. perhaps vulgar but not inherently offensive. It also is used there as a pejorative that roughly means "stupid" or "incompetent" and it's often applied to *men*!

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    9. The three most important things to using most words: context;context and context
      Alan

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    10. Context: We're in the U.S., not England.
      Context: Most women in the U.S. consider it offensive.
      Context: Do you hear your wife using the word? Doubt it.
      Context: Maybe you can get a spanking by using it around her repeatedly.

      Don't worry, I do have a sense of humor. I realize pussy is a ridiculous word that could be considered just as offensive. I just can't get too upset about a slang word dreamed up by some man looking at a hairy vagina and thinking it looks like a cat curled up in the woman's lap!

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    11. Hi Belle!
      For me personally, the "C" word is an acronym. Bear with me:

      C - Can't
      U - Understand
      N - Normal
      T - Thinking

      I use it for anyone who is an adult, regardless of gender. "Karens" fall under that description. Anyone (other than my physician) who try to tell me about my medical condition(s) fall under that description. Men who treat me like I'm stupid because I'm a woman fall under that description. People who are mean or rude, or both fall under that description.

      I could go on, but I think you understand my whats and whys now, whether or not you agree.

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    12. There are a few words out there I have no memory of ever using, one being the “C” word. No matter what other people think, it just tastes too awful coming off my tongue. I don’t know at what point in life I heard the word and found it so distasteful, but it’s more than just the vulgarity of it. Language isn't regulated to the point where we all understand the same meanings of words, but I can only describe the c-word as hate speech aimed at or referring to a woman.

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    13. Vagina monologues:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPr1b7jkNE

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    14. The "c" word is not part of my vocabulary either, nor has it ever been. Having lived internationally for quite a few years now, I agree totally about the cultural dependence on language. It is really kind of crazy that we make certain words OK and other words that literally mean the same thing offensive, but the meaning to the hearer's ears - and all the cultural baggage a word brings along with it - is what makes a word offensive. When heard through the lens of cultural or other context, words do have different weight and underlying implications, ultimately giving them different overall meaning, even when they are nouns describing the same literal thing. Also words are course just because we learn they are course. I know most all the swear words in the local language where I live, but quite frankly, they don't sound any more impactful than any other words to me. At the same time, people here often freely use English swear words and I know that they don't hear them the same as I do.

      -ZM

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    15. I agree it's cultural and we give words power rather than it being inherent, but in practicality none of that matters. If you call a black man a nigger, you're likely to get your ass kicked regardless of your or his cultural background. Guys say cunt to women with impunity because they aren't afraid of getting beaten up by us.

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  9. "For the wives, are there areas in which you have provided your husband with some disciplinary “motivation” to achieve a goal or make a change that he was struggling with?"
    I've commented on it before but my husband wanted to improve his spending habits and his tendency to act without thinking. If he had his way he would own a boat, riding horses, and other things that would have been purchased on a whim. With me in control and providing his guidance and discipline, the truth is we have more including a nice home and a second vacation home. He has a nice collection I've allowed him to have. He lacked some self control, probably because he grew up poor and with little direction. He's even seen good advancement in his career. Of course the DD/FLR we have is from him asking for this and while I enjoy being the boss he gets some kink he wants.
    Carol H.

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    1. "If he had his way he would own a boat, riding horses . . ." I'm not sure I see the problem. :-)

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    2. Um, Dan, it's because the boat would have to be way to big to accommodate the horses.

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    3. Of course. Why didn't I think of that. :-)

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  10. Liz,
    “Nor would I force him to leave work to come home for a spanking.”
    I doubt my former girlfriend was unique in requiring me to report home as Dan (and I believe others) have mentioned earlier. A lot of what makes DD work is a males desire to avoid it from actually happening. And when this particular one does actually happen, it makes a deep impressions, as Dan has noted
    Alan

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    1. My wife has never asked me to come home, but she has called me at work and told me that I was getting it when I came home, without even giving the reason. Talk about a pit in your stomach....

      -ZM

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    2. Jimmy can't answer his phone at work unless he is on a break, but I have on some days told him to make sure he calls me on lunch (which is never the same for him). I could see telling him he has a spanking coming and have him thinking about why all day. But on the other hand I don't want him distracted when electrocution is the worst possible result.

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  11. Hi Dan,
    Good topic! Our primary use of DD has been in making me more disciplined and pushing me forward towards my own goals. A close second is attitudes like arrogance, excessive sarcasm, etc. And almost never outright misbehavior.

    Having experienced DD both in a NXIUM-ish way to help me achieve my own positive goals, and also to curb bad attitudes and behaviors, I do think there is a significant difference between the two, albeit also many similarities, since positive goals can also be expressed in negative ways. For example, if you want to lose weight (positive goal), you could be punished for skipping the gym and overeating (negative behaviors) .

    Maybe the difference is whether the focus is on the results or the underlying behaviors? Or maybe because the goal is ever-better results? A coach pushes someone to achieve the unachievable, and then to keep reaching even higher.

    We have been doing the "boot camp" thing for quite a while, with weekly check-ins using a checklist of categories and a scoring system. We have relaxed it quite a bit over the past few months, because my company has been part of one of the biggest technology accelerators in the world, making work quite intense. Consequently, we have been only really focused on weight loss, since health is the most important thing to ensure there will BE a future! As the accelerator program winds down, I expect the "boot camp" will wind back up in tandem.

    Our boot camp is modeled on military boot camps, which last for months but make life-long changes, rather than the more typical "DD boot camp" which normally lasts a weekend or maybe a week and focuses on the DD relationship. In the military, immature teenagers and young adults are transformed (generally) into responsible adults. A key part of the process is boot camp, and of course the shaping continues throughout the following years because of the inherent structure of the military.

    Had I entered the military, they would have quickly gotten me in shape both physically and with regard to positive habits regarding hygiene, keeping my room or bed neat, and listening to others and submitting to authority when necessary. So if the military can do it, there is no reason that my loving wife can't also do it, plus if she wants to she has the benefit of actually being able to use a whip to whip me in shape! :-) Since we can’t be as intensive as the military is, having to balance it with normal life, it will take longer to achieve the same results, but undoubtedly it will work if given time.

    We compiled a list of things that need improvement in order for us to have a structured, organized life, without all the chaos that was so much a part of my life until recently. This extends to things like keeping my closet neat, spending time each week with friends, exercise, diet, keeping fingernails trimmed, and so on. And as I mentioned above, we have weekly check-ins where she scores my performance on each category, and then there is a grading chart showing where punishment begins and severity.

    All I can say for sure is that it works! Yes, my desk is currently a mess, and there is some disarray in my closet, but my desk is cluttered from a crushing load of hard work which was only possible since my wife helped me to get some career momentum going when we were just stuck several years ago. The clothes in my closet are at least generally folded, though now kind of mixing between winter, spring, and summer clothes, so the stacks are exceeding the available space. I have lost about 20lbs during the past several months, and finally broke through a weight plateau that I have been struggling with. I am a work in progress, but the key is that there continues to be progress, and how many people can honestly say that? I am losing weight, walking more, being more intentional about being social, wake up earlier in the morning, make our bed if I get up last, and many other things as we are racing forward to bigger and better things!

    -ZM

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    1. Great stuff! I'm glad to hear about the weight plateau breakthrough. I love quite a bit of weight over the course of the pandemic, and I've keep it off. Which is great. But, I'd still like to a few more pounds and am finding that very hard.

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    2. Jimmy hasn't asked me to use DD to enforce any self-improvent goals and I kind of doubt he will. It has all been my goals for him, things he really doesn't want to do but is ok when I "make" him with the threat of the paddle. It is interesting for me to hear you guys talk about DD help to lose weight and other goals you have set for yourself. Jimmy really has no problem with self-discipline in those areas. It's the things I want him to change where he needs external accountability. Fascinating.

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    3. At Jimmy's age, I didn't *need* any discipline around weight, self-imposed or otherwise. Wait 'til he turns 50.

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    4. “Jimmy really has no problem with self-discipline in those areas. It's the things I want him to change where he needs external accountability”
      First of all, this really resonates with me and reflects what I was describing above about our relationship as well as my experiences earlier. I seem to have lots of self-discipline in things I want to accomplish- but a lot less in areas Belle might refer to as “blind spots”
      But “the things I want him to change” really nails the dynamic for me. I really love it when a woman in an intimate relationship (that part of it is important) sets her goals and expectations backed up by real consequences. To me, just like spanking by itself, setting those expectations speaks very strongly about love and caring. I really believes that discipline is the expression of love and when a woman sets those standards or goals, she is expressing love. I understand that a woman has to be loving and caring in the first place for it to work, but when it does –WOW!
      Alan

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  12. Most of our DD goals, when we're on, are coach-like and oriented around health and work performance. I agree with others that it can be really effective although the downside is that it turns you into quite a legalist if your spanker isn't exercising full "I know it when I see it" discretion. This is natural because the spanking hurts and so the brain can't help but try to avoid getting one. Some goal design is required here.

    In the work arena, as Dan mentioned, there often can't be enough insight from the spouse into the particulars of work performance to make effective judgment calls, so the legal rules (number of calls made, a positive report from internet monitoring, a number of tickets processed, and so on) are necessary. We spend a lot of time defining exactly what those metrics look like and try to set up multiple metrics for one goal to make them hard for me to game, and adjust them periodically. As discussed several weeks ago, we have zero issues with honestly, so once we're set up I'm a reliable reporter.

    A couple years ago we also talked about some of the automated systems we set up to make it even easier. We are going to be doing more of that this year, too. We really feel like we can't do enough to make the spanking "automatically happen" once the line is crossed because neither of us wants to spend the energy discussing whether it should happen.

    Thanks for the topic!

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